Love

[nuit]

i have just come across a question and find it really interesting

If we are to work toward an existence in which we do not "cling" to wordly things what can we say about love. Love intuitively seems to be a positive force but it definately sets up a "clinging" to the one/ones we love that can cause suffering. Is it hard to believe we should not love. Thoughts?

[sensimillia]

love is a good way of letting go of ego, since true love is putting your loved one first. simple and enjoyable..:D

[nuit]

How about when we fall ‘out ‘ of love. This is a conditional, ego based love that is contingent to our attachment to our desires.

[mr jones]

i'm not in love with anyone at the moment. i think it is hard to believe we should not love.
there is definately a clinging although i'm not sure if its a material clinging or a spiritual clinging. maybe its a perfect balance of mind, body and spiritual clinging or wanting to protect who you love

[alrick888]

I think it's a difficult issue that we learn about by doing: by falling repeatedly and getting up repeatedly. It's not something you learn about in theory.

The Buddhists make a difference between pure unconditional love -which means you love someone whatever- and attachment.

Attachment is not only physical-based however. It's a bit tedious really. Let's just say love can take a lot of sh*t, and attachment can't take even a little before "it" freaks out.

[nuit]

i am glad you brought the buddhist aspect because that is what the question was implied towards

[adimon]

A very interesting question.

A life without companionship, intimacy and trust would be lonely and cause more suffering, IMO. :(

[kweli]

How about when we fall ‘out ‘ of love. This is a conditional, ego based love that is contingent to our attachment to our desires.

Good question Nuit. I know this isn't exactly what you were getting at, but just because we fall 'out' of love, doesn't necessarily mean we stop loving, if you know what I mean?

[alrick888]

If you would say define real love that would be difficult.

Can I refer you this video by French musical group Air? There was a time I used to get teary-eyed when watching this - actually these two are my definiton of true love. The way they appreciate each other without any egos flaring up....sniffff...the look in the girl's eyes.....the way they end each other's sentences........this is love IMO


All I Need (1998) - Air (directed by Mike Mills) - YouTube

[cleft_asunder]

i have just come across a question and find it really interesting

If we are to work toward an existence in which we do not "cling" to wordly things what can we say about love. Love intuitively seems to be a positive force but it definately sets up a "clinging" to the one/ones we love that can cause suffering. Is it hard to believe we should not love. Thoughts?

That's not love. Love is not a clinging or an attachment, that's why I refuse to tell people I love them, because love is a very deep thing that most people experience only on rare occassions. Osho said something along the lines of "Love is something you have in your open hands. When you make them into fists, they are empty." In other words, when you are in love then you are in love with everything, not one particular thing like a person. Love follows you like a shadow, and you love the sun and the stars, the glimmering sand under your feet, the birds chirping. There is no attachment, rather it is freedom from attachment--freedom because you accept change, and a deep joy is in you. You see the miracle that is life for the first time. You see the God in things.

[rossus]

usually people like eachother...
because there is something they can benefit off from the other...

if the person is not attractive or interesting enough... or does not fit other requirements,
(s)he will not be liked and will not become the partner of the other.

2 people become friends or a couple,
because it beats being alone, or being without intimate contact.

there is nothing wrong with that, but this behavior between people...
i don't call it love! Liking eachother: Yes; Love: No

when there's certain requirements, it's not pure.


i think everyone and everything is love.
and sometimes love is disguised as beauty, other times as ugliness.
it is sometimes disguised as good, other times as evil.

livings beings are able to like things and other living beings,
and they often confuse "I LIKE" with "I LOVE"

people can be nice to themselves and others,
because they like themselves/other... or because they like being nice.

or people can be not nice to themselves and others,
because they don't like.


people can create a emotional drama, so that when someone they liked is gone or hurt... they feel like hell!
and they think "Ohhh noo the person I "loved" "....

But that very drama, is the proof that these people do not love.
they do not love the universe, they do not love life as it is... hence the drama.



so like I said earlier, i think love is the soul of everything. (brahman)
and when a living being is true to his Self (brahman)....
love starts to become visible, as the forest which was hidden between the trees.

because all is love, love is unconditional
it does not like or dislike; as it knows that every form is just another disguise as which it appears.

when water takes the form of a bottle, it is not a bottle... it is love.
when loves takes the form of a human body, it is not human... it is love.
when love takes the form of good, it is not good... it is love.
when love takes the form of bad, it is not bad... it is love.

I'm not saying that good and bad don't exist.
Or that human bodies don't exist.
Pain and pleasure exist, warm and cold exist...

Everything is real!
.... for the person who believes himself and the world to be real.

Love doesn't believe itself to be a body. Love doesn't believe there is even a universe.
Which universe is there... ???
when there is not a body to look at it with eyes....
when there is no brain to translate the impulse of the nerves, into feeling?

There is no you, there is no world.
The illusion's just as real as you imagine it to be.

Love = Reality

http://users.telenet.be/psy/infinitelove.jpg

[dmessick]

If there is any attachment or clinging then there maybe a subconcious belief that the thing in which you love may not stay around very long and you have to try a 'keep it'. Let the clinging go because it was always there to begin with and will always come back.

[chris]

I think fear causes people to cling, fear of loneliness and heartache. Some of the most detached things I've ever done was when I loved someone enough to let her go.

Still I wouldn't equate this temporary love as real love. I can image real love is more of a constant state of being, because all the religious leaders believe that love is totally unconditional then that would mean that you have a certain amount of love inside of you more like a vibration and the higher the vibration, the better you synchronise your life with the world around you. Having a high degree of this kind of love would naturally make a person very detached from selfish relationships.

[nuit]

Although many might say the object of Buddhism is to not cling or to have desire these things miss the point. The object is to overcome the normal dualistic process of human thought. Clinging is a process that happens after the dualistic thought process happens. There must be an ‘I' or perception of self for that self to cling to anything. If you stop all clinging then you are still clinging to the idea of not clinging. So the crux of it would be to overcome the normal mind to one that is free of simple dualistic discrimination. It is the dualistic mind that holds the concepts of happiness; sadness, love and many and all thoughts but what are these things really? When we talk about love we assume there is a definition of love, that we know what it is. This is easy to talk about what love is but in reality it is hard to define. What is love? When we talk about love we say it's caring, affection, compassion and longing but those things are those things, not love. We use other words to describe love but what is love in and of its self? People do things for love that are horrific while others are magnanimous yet both would claim its love. Lust is often mistaken for love while others mistake devotion for love. Love of spouse, child, country and music are all different things yet we call them all love. We love someone and then find out they are not what we thought, a child molester or some other despicable thing, and then we suddenly don't love them; so what was happening here? Do we ‘love' a person or the concept of the person, who we think they are? This is the root of Buddhism, to know things as they are and not as projection. So first one must realize what love is, as its self, and then you can talk about it in context with other ideas. So Buddhism is not about non- attachment or not clinging but it is to ‘see things as they are' and to not be attached to our thoughts of what they are. The attachment is to our egotistical interpretation of things is what needs to be overcome and not to be an unattached dispassionate being but one who is fully alive and living. When you love a child it is with unatachment, you love the child for who they are and not what you want them to be. This is unconditional and unattached. As the child develops and ego and then stands against the parent then we love them as our child but have to muddle through the personality to get there. We know what was or is underneath. In adult life with don't see the other person ‘as they are' but as they present themselves to us. We like them for our similarities and dislike them for our differences. We love them for how we feel when we are with them. If you see the root of your own being then you see the root of all being, then you love others because you see them as yourself. Here you are liberated from ego based pain and see things as they are.


This is the answer that was given

[alrick888]

I'm sorry, I have a short span of attention.

Could you guys keep it snappy?

Btw, I'm starting a topic on "when did you first see a girl's naked breasts (other than your sister's) because I like to stay focused in life :D

[cleft_asunder]

Although many might say the object of Buddhism is to not cling or to have desire these things miss the point. The object is to overcome the normal dualistic process of human thought. Clinging is a process that happens after the dualistic thought process happens. There must be an ‘I' or perception of self for that self to cling to anything. If you stop all clinging then you are still clinging to the idea of not clinging. So the crux of it would be to overcome the normal mind to one that is free of simple dualistic discrimination. It is the dualistic mind that holds the concepts of happiness; sadness, love and many and all thoughts but what are these things really? When we talk about love we assume there is a definition of love, that we know what it is. This is easy to talk about what love is but in reality it is hard to define. What is love? When we talk about love we say it's caring, affection, compassion and longing but those things are those things, not love. We use other words to describe love but what is love in and of its self? People do things for love that are horrific while others are magnanimous yet both would claim its love. Lust is often mistaken for love while others mistake devotion for love. Love of spouse, child, country and music are all different things yet we call them all love. We love someone and then find out they are not what we thought, a child molester or some other despicable thing, and then we suddenly don't love them; so what was happening here? Do we ‘love' a person or the concept of the person, who we think they are? This is the root of Buddhism, to know things as they are and not as projection. So first one must realize what love is, as its self, and then you can talk about it in context with other ideas. So Buddhism is not about non- attachment or not clinging but it is to ‘see things as they are' and to not be attached to our thoughts of what they are. The attachment is to our egotistical interpretation of things is what needs to be overcome and not to be an unattached dispassionate being but one who is fully alive and living. When you love a child it is with unatachment, you love the child for who they are and not what you want them to be. This is unconditional and unattached. As the child develops and ego and then stands against the parent then we love them as our child but have to muddle through the personality to get there. We know what was or is underneath. In adult life with don't see the other person ‘as they are' but as they present themselves to us. We like them for our similarities and dislike them for our differences. We love them for how we feel when we are with them. If you see the root of your own being then you see the root of all being, then you love others because you see them as yourself. Here you are liberated from ego based pain and see things as they are.


This is the answer that was given

Okay, so if you understand that, then what was the point of the original post?

[cleft_asunder]

I'm sorry, I have a short span of attention.

Could you guys keep it snappy?

Btw, I'm starting a topic on "when did you first see a girl's naked breasts (other than your sister's) because I like to stay focused in life :D

:D

[cleft_asunder]

That was excellent Rossus, really summed it up.

[alrick888]

This is the answer that was given

By who please, kind lady nuit?

[rossus]

This is the answer that was given
i looked it up and it is written by a zen-taoist kind of guy.
it sounds quite right, but i hope he's good at experiencing what he just explained there.

some people are good at explaining the theory, but don't quite put it to practice....
so i've discovered when I met a 30 year-practicing za-zen-monk-teacher...

he didn't seem that enlightened at all, and when he explained to me what the truth is about...
it's like he repeated something he had read in a robotic fashion... not as if what he said came from his heart :(

[cleft_asunder]

i looked it up and it is written by a zen-taoist kind of guy.
it sounds quite right, but i hope he's good at experiencing what he just explained there.

some people are good at explaining the theory, but don't quite put it to practice....
so i've discovered when I met a 30 year-practicing za-zen-monk-teacher...

he didn't seem that enlightened at all, and when he explained to me what the truth is about...
it's like he repeated something he had read in a robotic fashion... not as if what he said came from his heart :(

That's weird because I would NEVER even think about being a spiritual teacher if I hadn't found out my true self yet. It's so strange that people do.

[alrick888]

That's weird because I would NEVER even think about being a spiritual teacher if I hadn't found out my true self yet. It's so strange that people do.

I have spent some time on that path and I found that the earthiest people are the best teachers. The most grounded ones.

[cleft_asunder]

I have spent some time on that path and I found that the earthiest people are the best teachers. The most grounded ones.

that seems like nonsense. Eckhart Tolle has found his true self, and it makes him an exceptional teacher.

[rossus]

That's weird because I would NEVER even think about being a spiritual teacher if I hadn't found out my true self yet. It's so strange that people do.
as his dojo was listed on the website of buddhism,
he probably has gotten permission by the buddhist zen federation to teach his very impractical old fashioned style of spirituality.

i've met several people who said they were being taught for a while by "a very good buddhist or taoist teacher",
but they also didn't seem very enlightened.

i think it's because the method they were being taught, is simply not sharp enough.
you can't chop a tree by using a golf club.

stuff like this make me skeptical about the true intentions of many forms of buddhism...
do they want to help people, or keep them stuck?
do they even understand fully what they are talking about?


but i'm sure not all styles of (zen)buddhism are using bad methods...
and this is what prevents me from saying wild things like "buddhism sucks". :p

i suspect with taoism it's the same deal, and probably every style of spirituality.

[tejas]

usually people like eachother...
because there is something they can benefit off from the other...

if the person is not attractive or interesting enough... or does not fit other requirements,
(s)he will not be liked and will not become the partner of the other.

2 people become friends or a couple,
because it beats being alone, or being without intimate contact.

there is nothing wrong with that, but this behavior between people...
i don't call it love! Liking eachother: Yes; Love: No

when there's certain requirements, it's not pure.


i think everyone and everything is love.
and sometimes love is disguised as beauty, other times as ugliness.
it is sometimes disguised as good, other times as evil.

livings beings are able to like things and other living beings,
and they often confuse "I LIKE" with "I LOVE"

people can be nice to themselves and others,
because they like themselves/other... or because they like being nice.

or people can be not nice to themselves and others,
because they don't like.


people can create a emotional drama, so that when someone they liked is gone or hurt... they feel like hell!
and they think "Ohhh noo the person I "loved" "....

But that very drama, is the proof that these people do not love.
they do not love the universe, they do not love life as it is... hence the drama.



so like I said earlier, i think love is the soul of everything. (brahman)
and when a living being is true to his Self (brahman)....
love starts to become visible, as the forest which was hidden between the trees.

because all is love, love is unconditional
it does not like or dislike; as it knows that every form is just another disguise as which it appears.

when water takes the form of a bottle, it is not a bottle... it is water.
when loves takes the form of a human body, it is not human... it is love.
when love takes the form of good, it is not good... it is love.
when love takes the form of bad, it is not bad... it is love.

I'm not saying that good and bad don't exist.
Or that human bodies don't exist.
Pain and pleasure exist, warm and cold exist...

Everything is real!
.... for the person who believes himself and the world to be real.

Love doesn't believe itself to be a body. Love doesn't believe there is even a universe.
Which universe is there... ???
when there is not a body to look at it with eyes....
when there is no brain to translate the impulse of the nerves, into feeling?

There is no you, there is no world.
The illusion's just as real as you imagine it to be.

Love = Reality

http://users.telenet.be/psy/infinitelove.jpg

Rossus I think you have the most correct interpretation of love there is.

Essentially love has no opposite, love must be pure existence itself

Nice pic btw, thats the story where the other kud are making fun of krishna cos he has got dirt in his mouth? His mum looks in his mouth and its actually the multiverse ^_^?

[alrick888]

That's interesting what you say about zen buddhism. Once you get past the sitting and the koans (which can be really quite beautiful) you're pretty much left out in the dark theorywise. But that seems to be the whole idea.
But a lot of zen centers today seem to be about paying the rent.

Genpo Roshi used to be into meditating bigtime but he says he basically burnt out. I used to meditate and hour and a half each day, even on Christmas. It doesn't make you a happier person. You become quite introverted.

Now Genpo Roshi teaches a Voice Dialogue type process called Big Mind. It's on Youtube and on my blog at http://avatarepc.blogspot.com/2007/11/big-mind-integration-experience.html

It's really easy and takes about an hour.

[cleft_asunder]

That's interesting what you say about zen buddhism. Once you get past the sitting and the koans (which can be really quite beautiful) you're pretty much left out in the dark theorywise. But that seems to be the whole idea.
But a lot of zen centers today seem to be about paying the rent.

Genpo Roshi used to be into meditating bigtime but he says he basically burnt out. I used to meditate and hour and a half each day, even on Christmas. It doesn't make you a happier person. You become quite introverted.

Now Genpo Roshi teaches a Voice Dialogue type process called Big Mind. It's on Youtube and on my blog at http://avatarepc.blogspot.com/2007/11/big-mind-integration-experience.html

It's really easy and takes about an hour.

You must not be meditating properly then. So much disinfo is out there about meditation. For example, I find the idea of meditation music to be a bit absurd. Meditation is about not thinking, what does music have to do with it? People listen to meditation music because they want to escape meditation. I'm not saying you CAN'T meditate using music, but it's contrary to what you are doing!

Success in meditation is measured in how peaceful you become. Regular meditation --even 5-10 minutes a day-- results in a dramatic change to how you perceive the world. You become less judgmental because love starts flowing into your life. The best thing about it is that a joy develops in you. A joy of what? Of BEING. That's why I say you arent' doing it right if you aren't a happier person.

Read Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth. It is the best book on the subject I have read. It is clear, interesting, motivational, funny, and highly effective.

[rossus]

Rossus I think you have the most correct interpretation of love there is.

Essentially love has no opposite, love must be pure existence itself

Nice pic btw, thats the story where the other kud are making fun of krishna cos he has got dirt in his mouth? His mum looks in his mouth and its actually the multiverse ^_^?
thanks i try my best not to betray myself. :D

it was i who made that painting.......................................... .................................................. .............................................. kidding. :p

i don't know what the story is, i've read very little hindu-god stories.
i'll have to read them one day cause i suspect they're fun.

Read Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth. It is the best book on the subject I have read. It is clear, interesting, motivational, funny, and highly effective.
best book on the subject i found is I AM THAT by NISARGADATTA MAHARAJ.
it's not very fluffy or funny... but it's sharp as a knife :p

http://www.prahlad.org/gallery/nisargadatta_250.jpghttp://www.harshasatsangh.com/LunarPages/images/lak_baba2.jpghttp://www.mysterieschool.nl/images/NisargadattaMaharaj.jpg

[alrick888]

You must not be meditating properly then. So much disinfo is out there about meditation. For example, I find the idea of meditation music to be a bit absurd. Meditation is about not thinking, what does music have to do with it? People listen to meditation music because they want to escape meditation. I'm not saying you CAN'T meditate using music, but it's contrary to what you are doing!

Success in meditation is measured in how peaceful you become. Regular meditation --even 5-10 minutes a day-- results in a dramatic change to how you perceive the world. You become less judgmental because love starts flowing into your life. The best thing about it is that a joy develops in you. A joy of what? Of BEING. That's why I say you arent' doing it right if you aren't a happier person.

Read Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth. It is the best book on the subject I have read. It is clear, interesting, motivational, funny, and highly effective.

Maybe I will. Btw, i don't use music while meditating. I use Holosync.

[cleft_asunder]

thanks i try my best not to betray myself. :D

it was i who made that painting.......................................... .................................................. ........ kidding. :p

i don't know what the story is, i've read very little hindu-god stories.
i'll have to read them one day cause i suspect they're fun.

best book on the subject i found is I AM THAT by NISARGADATTA MAHARAJ.
it's neither motivational or funny... but it's sharp as a knife :p

I don't like that book. It makes the situation far too serious, and I don't understand why it tries to explain enlightenment. It reads like a philosophical book, and is quite dry in my opinion. But different strokes...

[tejas]

cleft how long have u been meditating for? I have both if tolles books, half way thru power of now atm

[alrick888]

Cleft what's with the David Koresh pose in your avatar?

[cleft_asunder]

Cleft what's with the David Koresh pose in your avatar?

Hehe, does Koresh own that pose or something? Are the rights reserved?

[alrick888]

Is that an AK 47?

[cleft_asunder]

cleft how long have u been meditating for? I have both if tolles books, half way thru power of now atm

Well I've been in a sort of detour for the past 2 months, and I image the events that took place were BECAUSE I was meditating. You know what they say don't you? When you genuinely persevere towards enlightenment, well... the shit hits the fan sometimes. You undergo hardship in other words. So now I have to get back on track and stuff.

I haven't meditated too much at all. I was never into a regular cycle. I would just do it when I felt like it. The thing is that, meditation doesn't have to be sitting on a couch for 10 minutes every day. That is way too serious for me. Instead, I shut off my mind when I drive and focus on driving completely. Or I focus on washing the dishes completely. That is much less of a burden! And when you get into this habbit --even if it's only 10-20 minutes of full attention a day-- then your world just changes. You become calmer and more loving, and the joy I spoke of comes to you sometimes. It's an amazing feeling. You feel like you don't need anything other than your existence.

[cleft_asunder]

Is that an AK 47?

Yeah, I'm the perfect patsy aren't I? Maybe it is a bad idea.

[alrick888]

I'm not against people owning guns. It's just that you have to be careful with what you post on the net.

Like for instance nuit told me she can't go out anymore because everybody still recognizes her from the all the early nineties porn flicks she's done. :rolleyes:

[tejas]

Well I've been in a sort of detour for the past 2 months, and I image the events that took place were BECAUSE I was meditating. You know what they say don't you? When you genuinely persevere towards enlightenment, well... the shit hits the fan sometimes. You undergo hardship in other words. So now I have to get back on track and stuff.

I haven't meditated too much at all. I was never into a regular cycle. I would just do it when I felt like it. The thing is that, meditation doesn't have to be sitting on a couch for 10 minutes every day. That is way too serious for me. Instead, I shut off my mind when I drive and focus on driving completely. Or I focus on washing the dishes completely. That is much less of a burden! And when you get into this habbit --even if it's only 10-20 minutes of full attention a day-- then your world just changes. You become calmer and more loving, and the joy I spoke of comes to you sometimes. It's an amazing feeling. You feel like you don't need anything other than your existence.

hmm sounds good. Think is though, i dont want to start doing any action like this untill im 100% sure its the truth. I used to be into all sorts of spiritual stuff whic gave a sense of deep profound happiness, but alas it was more mental delusion :(

[cleft_asunder]

hmm sounds good. Think is though, i dont want to start doing any action like this untill im 100% sure its the truth. I used to be into all sorts of spiritual stuff whic gave a sense of deep profound happiness, but alas it was more mental delusion :(

How can enlightenment be mental delusion when it is beyond mind --when it is the shutting down of the mind?

[tejas]

How can enlightenment be mental delusion when it is beyond mind --when it is the shutting down of the mind?

We dont know the true power of the mind, we might feel that we are in a mindless state, but the mind is actually fully active. Look up john c lilly, he was a scientist who experimented with a helluva lot of drugs, he found that even some of the most profound mystical experiences were created by the mind/subconscious to aid self-preservation.

One can see the evading nature of many beliefs which one previously considered basic to one's private and professional philosophy. As one opens up the depths, it is wise not to privately or publicly espouse as ultimate any truths one finds for example: the universe in general, beings not human, thought transference, life after death etc . Such ideas may merely be a reflection of one's needs in terms of one's own survival. Ruthless selfanalysis as to one's needs for certain kinds
of ideas in these areas must be explored honestly and truthfully.

Once one has done such deep analysis one later finds deeper that these needs were generating these ideas. One's public need to proclaim them to one's self and to others, as if they are the ultimate truth, is an expression of one's need to believe.

Note that he definateley did not deny the presense of such extra-dimensional functions, he was a firm believer in them. What he did find was that the mind was very powerful at creating delusions, and that one had to be very clever in sifting the wheat from the chaff.

At any rate it is just a very real fear that I have, to be let along the spiritual garden path for the umpteenth time :(

[cleft_asunder]

We dont know the true power of the mind, we might feel that we are in a mindless state, but the mind is actually fully active. Look up john c lilly, he was a scientist who experimented with a helluva lot of drugs, he found that even some of the most profound mystical experiences were created by the mind/subconscious to aid self-preservation.



Note that he definateley did not deny the presense of such extra-dimensional functions, he was a firm believer in them. What he did find was that the mind was very powerful at creating delusions, and that one had to be very clever in sifting the wheat from the chaff.

At any rate it is just a very real fear that I have, to be let along the spiritual garden path for the umpteenth time :(

That's in fact a very good point, and I've considered this. For example, in a near death experience, perhaps the mind creates a fictional scenario where you are walking through a tunnel, and there is intense bliss and there is a light at the end of the tunnel which is extremely loving. However, I'm not convinced that this is the case.

In regards to Enlightenment, the only way to reach a conclusion about enlightenment is to experience it yourself. Frankly, it makes sense even logically. Because consciousness exists, there can be nothing BUT consciousness (God). There is no opposite to consciousness, because the opposite would be non-existence, unconsciousness, and how could something that doesn't exist exist? In other words, how could non-existence exist? Only consciousness and forms exist. Although consciousness is a no-thing, that simply means that it isn't any form, although form is it's expression. Consciousness is consciousness, and it can only be infinite.

[octopusrex]

"unconditional love" is where's at.

Most parents would give their life and sanity for their kids.

That's what's it all about.

It's about what Jesus said: "...love one another"... Notoriously, he left out any parts about Crusades, Inquisitions and witch-hunts.

[revolutionary_jam]

love is NOT clining, some people believe it shows how much they love but it doesn't, clining is selfish

[limelady]

love is NOT clining, some people believe it shows how much they love but it doesn't, clining is selfish

I agree, but people who "cling" are generally fearful (of loss), not necessarily selfish of intent. :)

[cleft_asunder]

I agree, but people who "cling" are generally fearful (of loss), not necessarily selfish of intent. :)

True.

[deca]

alrick888 are you twisted,payed or think its your duty?:p

[gorgeousbutterfly]

what do you consider clinging though?

[cleft_asunder]

what do you consider clinging though?

Wanting to jump off the roof due to another person is one example.

[deca]

I have friends who are sick of Dualism too:D
http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/fh/mcshn/images/falittle.gif

[xdnax]

here.

read this poem.

i've been thinkin bout this a LOT recently.

"ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW"

this isn't love......
by any ordinary messures,
cos this love is not restricted
by imaginary pressures,
no one could ruin it for me
i don't care bout other fellaz,
cos the unity of we
when our minds are merged together,
knows no jelousy
flows forever free,
those that envy we
are those that never see,
it don't take "better be"s
to prove love,
and we'll forever be
in true love,
because i love your soul
therefor, i love you whole,
don't need you for my own
i need you just to know.....

I LOVE YOU

wait, i got couple more that touch on it

ETERNAL LOVE PART 1

Time flies,i realise that its endless,
my love grows as if its relentless,
if i rationalised 2most it seems senseless,
&its of the truest essense so it stands defenceless
...cos it needs no defending,it needs no pretending,
the kind im recomending,real and never ending,
the message im sending from every pore of my body,
times change,what remains,u can be sure that u'v got me,
undescribable emotions means half isnt told,
of what i behold in my heart&my soul,
when it starts to unfold i jst cant give n go,
so i embark on this road from the start to the fold,
walk my own path,disregard what is 'known',
planted my own seeds and the garden will grow,
&whats startin to show is the root of the matter,
my eternal love from the here to the after.

ETERNAL LOVE PART 2

The way i c the world 2 b isnt discerning me,
cos compassionate love is the truth for eternity,
together on this journey we become ppl we learn to be,
ignoring the wonders of united diversity,
with or without my words i reach-out2ur soul,
when u question urself-r those doubts of ur own?
or what u percieve of what to believe?
are we just reflectin what others want us2be?
are we slaves2the mask?2the days that have past?
in a maze with no map,livin dazed in a trap,
confused by'rules'-&the way we react?
look@whats most convenient<blame it on that,
we take individuals-condemn&we redicule,
basing our views from the news in our living rooms,
&so hypocritical-why do we miss the truth?
u want'true freedom'but ur view's contradicting u,
addicted2norms-restrictive2ALL,
u can stick2its forms-but i kick in the walls,
cos how i see the world2be isnt discerning me,
cos compassionate love is the truth for eternity.

just copied n pasted. but it consumes my head lately.

i'd go deeper but it's late.

peace

one love

[gorgeousbutterfly]

Wanting to jump off the roof due to another person is one example.

thats a reaction of being too clingy to someone.

[cleft_asunder]

thats a reaction of being too clingy to someone.

What's your point?

[gorgeousbutterfly]

What's your point?

that is a reaction its not a definition of clinginess. :D just being anal i guess :rolleyes:

[deca]

cleft_asunder, don`t let all the physiological bullshit get to you.thats what these sick fucks try to do,just laugh it off, ok dude

[gorgeousbutterfly]

cleft_asunder, don`t let all the physiological bullshit get to you.thats what these sick fucks try to do,just laugh it off, ok dude

how is he getting it to him? *confused*:confused:

[cleft_asunder]

that is a reaction its not a definition of clinginess. :D just being anal i guess :rolleyes:

You would be reacting in that way because you are attached. If you weren't attached, then you wouldn't be suicidal. To be suicidal because of another person implies that that person is the basis for your life.

[deca]

just be careful that goes to all who reads this, they don`t collect every little detail for nothing, think viral ads, ok.

[nuit]

Like for instance nuit told me she can't go out anymore because everybody still recognizes her from the all the early nineties porn flicks she's done. :rolleyes:

ffs and all because i was not interested in wanting your number

[alrick888]

ffs and all because i was not interested in wanting your number

I would never give you my number. You're twisted.

[deca]

alrick888, dude take a chill pill and hang up and stick to your low IQ threads:D

[tejas]

That's in fact a very good point, and I've considered this. For example, in a near death experience, perhaps the mind creates a fictional scenario where you are walking through a tunnel, and there is intense bliss and there is a light at the end of the tunnel which is extremely loving. However, I'm not convinced that this is the case.

In regards to Enlightenment, the only way to reach a conclusion about enlightenment is to experience it yourself. Frankly, it makes sense even logically. Because consciousness exists, there can be nothing BUT consciousness (God). There is no opposite to consciousness, because the opposite would be non-existence, unconsciousness, and how could something that doesn't exist exist? In other words, how could non-existence exist? Only consciousness and forms exist. Although consciousness is a no-thing, that simply means that it isn't any form, although form is it's expression. Consciousness is consciousness, and it can only be infinite.

I totally agree, its the experience that counts, but i just have my doubts.

[on the road]

Fuck knows buts its good and I for one love the stuff!!!

[deca]

.

[tinmenace]

i have just come across a question and find it really interesting

If we are to work toward an existence in which we do not "cling" to wordly things what can we say about love. Love intuitively seems to be a positive force but it definately sets up a "clinging" to the one/ones we love that can cause suffering. Is it hard to believe we should not love. Thoughts?

Love is not about "clinging", imho.

[mightiswrong]

There are many types of love and I think there is a distinction between being in love and loving somebody but it is not clear to me what exactly the difference is?

[gravityhero23]

A most interesting point, you make Nuit.

hopefully this poem may help expose my feelings on this matter:

Entry level love

Love is learnt
not bought or sold
its price is worth
more than all the worlds gold.

Love is boundless
pan dimensional at times
pulsating in everything
even the space between rhymes.

Love is danger
excitement and fear
follow your heart
and all becomes clear

Love is just a word
but so much more
define - dictionary meanings
until your head's sore.

Love is the knowledge
you've been stressed all along
love is the emotion
expressed in a song

Love is surely
captivating
and magickally
bound

Love is always
around, set in
stone
symbols
light and
sound

Love is also gravity
walking
physical
ground

Love is the pain
and suffering
also rage
fought in wars




Love is the release
in peace
now we return
to the source

Love is
the evolution
of us.

Kristian Peter Zwart