How to stay conscious for 11 days without sleeping

[seanx]

Following a thread this week about Ken Wilder, does anybody know
anything about this or ever tried something similar even for a few
days.

This is from the book, One Taste by Ken Wilder

"During an intensive 11 day retreat........in which the
separate self seemed to radically, deeply, throughly die- I slept
not at all during those 11 days; or rather was conscious
for those 11 days and nights, even as the body and mind went
through waking, dreaming, and sleeping. I was unmoved in the
misit of changes; there was no I to be moved; there was only
unwavering empty consciousness....."

This seems extraordinary as even be to be fully 100% present for one
hour I find challenging as the mind is continually distracted and wants
to do ANYTHING -ANYTHING but sit and be present with choicless
awareness.

It obviously is possible to reach such a level of awareness as Ken has
shown.

Does this also mean that one could consciously die? i.e. be
fully AWARE of the process as one dies and leaves this
dimension to another one.

Have anybody ever heard of this or any books that discuss or
consider it??

Or has anyone ever done a meditation retreat like the one above..
and what were the results?

Thanks

[tru3]

for background, please refer to

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1510&highlight=wilber

at least according to my studies and experience, he's in a state of consciousness that bridges the waking, dreaming and deep sleep states.

Question: What is the difference between the Buddha and the Mukta, the bound man and the one liberated?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: The ordinary man lives in the brain unaware of himself in the Heart. The jnana-siddha (jnani) lives in the Heart. When he moves about and deals with men and things, he knows that what he sees is not separate from the one supreme reality, the Brahman which he realised in the Heart as his own Self, the real.

Question: What about the ordinary man?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: I have just said that he sees things outside himself. He is separate from the world, from his own deeper truth, from the truth that supports him and what he sees. The man who has realised the supreme truth of his own existence realises that it is the one supreme reality that is there behind him, behind the world. In fact, he is aware of the one, as the real, the Self in all selves, in all things, eternal and immutable, in all that is impermanent and mutable.

Question: Does a jnani have dreams?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: Yes, he does dream, but he knows it to be a dream, in the same way as he knows the waking state to be a dream. You may call them dream number one and dream number two. The jnani being established in the fourth state-Turiya, the supreme reality- he detachedly witnesses the three other states, waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep, as pictures superimposed on it.

For those who experience waking, dream and sleep, the state of wakeful sleep, which is beyond those three states, is named Turiya (the fourth). But since that Turiya alone exists and since the seeming three states do not exist, know for certain that turiya is itself turiyatitta (that which transcends the fourth).

Question: For the jnani then, there is no distinction between the three states of mind?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: How can there be, when the mind itself is dissolved and lost in the light of consciousness?

For the jnani all the three states are equally unreal. But the ajnani is unable to comprehend this, because for him the standard of reality is the waking state, whereas for the jnani the standard is reality itself. This reality of pure consciousness is eternal by its nature and therefore subsists equally during what you call waking, dreaming and sleep. To him who is one with that reality there is neither the mind nor its three states and, therefore, neither introversion nor extroversion.

His is the ever waking state, because he is awake to the eternal Self; his is the ever dreaming state, because to him the world is no better than a repeatedly presented dream phenomenon; his is the ever sleeping state, because he is at all times without the ‘body-am I’ consciousness.

wilber himself credits ramana maharshi with being a huge influence on his own spiritual path. so, i went to the source, and there are subtle differences between ramana and wilber. my concern with ken is that he is rolling the dice on a huge gamble; that spirit and matter can co-exist as equal partners in a sacred union. i'm not so sure. but with respect to the implications of the video and what you've shared above, i still believe it's unwise to throw the baby out with the bathwater (again, ken's phrase, not mine :) ).

[seanx]

Thank you tru3 for that information and the theory behind it.


But I'm just wondering if any body has ever attempted it - even for
2 or 3 days?

Just to maybe go in your room, close the door, and sit - zazen-like
and be present in your body being fully conscious, moment-by-moment
hour-by hour, day by day.

No human contact, no reading the paper or TV, just the minimum
food, and just to stay fully present, observing whatever arises with
choiceless awareness and without the slightest preference.

What did you feel ? What did you experience?

I intend to take 6 days off soon from my business, lock myself
away
in a cottage in the west of Ireland, and practice this form of
choicless meditation just see what happens?

I'm going to keep a totally open mind ( I hope) and just allow
whatever hapens to happpen?

I'm just wondering if anybody has any advice or feeback or past experience?

[tru3]

Thank you tru3 for that information and the theory behind it.


But I'm just wondering if any body has ever attempted it - even for
2 or 3 days?

Just to maybe go in your room, close the door, and sit - zazen-like
and be present in your body being fully conscious, moment-by-moment
hour-by hour, day by day.

No human contact, no reading the paper or TV, just the minimum
food, and just to stay fully present, observing whatever arises with
choiceless awareness and without the slightest preference.

What did you feel ? What did you experience?

I intend to take 6 days off soon from my business, lock myself
away
in a cottage in the west of Ireland, and practice this form of
choicless meditation just see what happens?

I'm going to keep a totally open mind ( I hope) and just allow
whatever hapens to happpen?

I'm just wondering if anybody has any advice or feeback or past experience?


i have experienced long periods of samahdi in the last 2 years, but not sahaj. there are several different subtle levels of attachment and identification remaining, and that's what i have experienced. but sahaj is the the primal field of awareness, according to the vedics. as i mentioned on the brain wave thread, ken spent 20 years in dzogchen buddhist practise, and that given the pace of change on the planet, it's not a very practical approach any more. "one taste" means to me that once the ego, the identified body mind, apprehends the perfection of oneness even a single time, it will move heaven and earth to re-create it, and that every experience in between is indeed that same one taste.

contemplation is as or more effective than mediation, imv. the goal is one-pointedness of concentration. when the mind wanders, i gently bring it back to the enquiry, whatever resonates for me at that time. i don't need someone to give me a mantra or show me a symbol; the wisdom mirror of life tells me where healing is needed in my relationships, attitudes and affairs. i go about my daily business, engaged in constant self-enquiry , even while engaged with other people. there is a constant witness to whatever arises. my intention is to rest as that witnessing awareness. mindfulness of breathing helps as well to continually return to the original intention.

it works for me, anyway. :)