my unfortunate meeting with someone in the ARMY.

[weareinfinitelove]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..

[tinmenace]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..


Wow, what a bum experience!

It's really quite sad because underneath the program with which you were interacting is a trapped human being. Someone who has had their identity stripped away, their humanity suppressed to the point where they don't even relate to the plight of other humans (women and children!), and has been programmed to be a killing machine.

This is what the PTB do. They suppress the human, and create a robot. They create impenetrable armor for these robots. These are the machines, the robot armies.

Keep yourself safe from this kind of thing. Don't interact at all with this vibe.

Remember; Energy flows where focus goes.

Also; "Various mundane and cosmic forces are aligned in a desperate battle for your attention because your attention represents where and how you focus your energy for creating the reality you encounter." - Emerging From Denial - Channeled by Barbara Marciniak for the June 21, 2004 Summer Solstice edition of The Pleiadian Times (http://www.pleiadians.com/ptimes.html#)


Hugs to you
Tin :)

[otto vollov]

That was a great comment. I'd like to know what you mean by the "PTB" because I'm not familiar with that term. I also feel sorry for the military chap. I know many who left for war and only their bodies came back. Sad, very sad. You'd think that we would snap out of this media induced coma the country finds itself in. It was the pain of war and poverty that drove me to look for the correct solution as you stated in your reply. Thanks to people like tinmenace, I'm able to see past the illusion.

[eternal_spirit]

That was a great comment. I'd like to know what you mean by the "PTB" because I'm not familiar with that term.

.............

PTB means The Powers That Be, meaning those who control society etc.

[tinmenace]

.............

PTB means The Powers That Be, meaning those who control society etc.

Thank you ES ;) :)

[tinmenace]

Thanks to people like tinmenace, I'm able to see past the illusion.

Very generous. Thank you.

Welcome to the forum. :)

[helloperator]

If we are connected conscious and it's all about thinking as one and evolving our consciousness....then it's guys like this who are like the ball and chain around humanities neck.

[tinmenace]

If we are connected conscious and it's all about thinking as one and evolving our consciousness....then it's guys like this who are like the ball and chain around humanities neck.

They're disconnected. Their consciousness has been suppressed and the reptilian brain fully activated.

[steevo]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..

Sounds like a nightmare of an evening :eek:
I am not a mind reader or anything but I think that those army types like the one you met actually think that they are impressing you by telling you that they enjoy what is happening in Iraq and Afganistan and the part they are playing.
I think you probably did the right thing not kicking him out because he sounds dodgy to say the least and maybe it could have turned nasty but I would love it if girls told these meat heads what they really feel about what people like him are doing and maybe it might shock him into realising what a dumb-ass he is.
I wonder if there is a very fine line between loving what he is doing over there and hating it.

[kuro]

" Young men: The lowest aim in your life is to become a soldier. The good soldier never tries to distinguish right from wrong. He never thinks; never reasons; he only obeys. If he is ordered to fire on his fellow citizens, on his friends, on his neighbors, on his relatives, he obeys without hesitation. If he is ordered to fire down a crowded street when the poor are clamoring for bread, he obeys and sees the gray hairs of age stained with red and the life tide gushing from the breasts of women, feeling neither remorse nor sympathy. If he is ordered off as a firing squad to execute a hero or benefactor, he fires without hesitation, though he knows the bullet will pierce the noblest heart that ever beat in human breast.
A good soldier is a blind, heartless, soulless, murderous machine. He is not a man. He is not a brute, for brutes only kill in self defense. All that is human in him, all that is divine in him, all that constitutes the man has been sworn away when he took the enlistment roll. His mind, his conscience, aye, his very soul, are in the keeping of his officer.
No man can fall lower than the solder—it is a depth beneath which we cannot go. Keep the boys out of the army. It is hell.
Down with the army and the navy. We don't need killing institutions. We need life-giving institutions."

[tinmenace]

We don't need killing institutions. We need life-giving institutions."


Indeed! Bravo!

[jim fear]

I no exactly where your coming from, I have a friend in the army, and he’s extremely brainwashed and he gets so angry when you disagree with his politics, he gets to the point where he gets really violent and you just have to try your best to claim him down which is practically impossible but Underneath he’s a really cool guy and he changed completely when he went into the army he got really drunk one summer and referred to myself and all his other friends as “ Fuckin civies!” and was yelling about how his army friends are “so much better they’re real fucking mates!” Etc..

It was just last week I saw him at the pub and he was having a discussion about “national pride” and what it is to be British, and how you cant be patriotic if your not a racist, anyway later that night he got into a fight about it with someone who got involved because he didn’t like the racist remarks he was blatantly yelling about.

The army drills this shit into people and they take it though there life with them. All the nation pride bullshit, God Save the Queen etc etc

[hagbard_celine]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..

You did the right thing in reporting your experience. Sorry you had such a bad time, but it's good you feel compassion for him. Military training really is an indoctrination machine designed to close down analytical thought. The first stage in any military training is rigid discipline, routine and ritual; this is combined with very hard work and sleep deprivation. It is the perfect recipe for producing a living robot. I almost joined the Royal Navy once and I'm so glad I didn't!

One of the paragraphs in the Ten Steps to Fascism article included: "Military service is glorified and glamourized", and isn't it just! The media and conventional society in general portrays soldiers as superhuman man-gods. I remember during the firemen's strike a few years ago, the news came on the TV asking whether the Army's "Green Goddess" fire engines were up to the task of modern firefighting. Someone who was watching with me said: "Why not just let them use modern fire engines?" I said "They're not trained to use them." My neighbour replied: "Training? These are soldiers! They don't need training."

And what does this public mindset have on the soldiers themselves? If you are talking to someone and they're in the military then within 2 to three sentences they will find some way to slip it into the discussion. They are programmed to believe that they are automatically superior to anyone else present and that is why they want to tell people so badly. In my experience, they get quite annoyed by those who are not effected by their perceived status. I remember talking in a pub to a man who was an Army medic who'd just come back from Iraq. He got upset when I didn't show any interest in the subject and tried talking about something else. I've found that if soldiers are in a pub in uniform they can become peeved even more easily, by people who simply don't look at them. I was once challenged in London by a group of uniformed soldiers in a pub because I walked passed their table seeming to be unaware of their presence.

My ex-girlfriend told me a few weeks ago that her son has just joined the Army. I didn't reply. I was torn between wanting to warn her and not upsetting her with what I know, which she has no control over.

The media pours copious prestige on the military. The catchphrase in the UK is "our brave boys". They also repeatedly drone about the dangers of warfare and the "courage" of those who face them. But according to my almanac, there are a number of jobs that are more dangerous than modern military service (generally; I can't speak for elite units like the SAS): deep-sea diver, demolition worker, fisherman, coal miner. Where's all the new headlines about "Our brave miners" and "Trawler hero dies so that we can enjoy our fish fingers."?

There are several reasons for this distortion, but the main one is that the military is so important to Elite power. Without Kissinger's "dumb, stupid animals" what would they do? Military service also means very hard and (quite, see above) risky work for comparatively low pay; who would do the job without all the glory?

[hagbard_celine]

I no exactly where your coming from, I have a friend in the army, and he’s extremely brainwashed and he gets so angry when you disagree with his politics, he gets to the point where he gets really violent and you just have to try your best to claim him down which is practically impossible but Underneath he’s a really cool guy and he changed completely when he went into the army he got really drunk one summer and referred to myself and all his other friends as “ Fuckin civies!” and was yelling about how his army friends are “so much better they’re real fucking mates!” Etc..

It was just last week I saw him at the pub and he was having a discussion about “national pride” and what it is to be British, and how you cant be patriotic if your not a racist, anyway later that night he got into a fight about it with someone who got involved because he didn’t like the racist remarks he was blatantly yelling about.

The army drills this shit into people and they take it though there life with them. All the nation pride bullshit, God Save the Queen etc etc

I call all people who are not hospital porters "civvies". That soon brings the matter into perspective! I do it merely as an ironic statement; Why should there be a special word for people doing a different job than youself?

[tits mcgee]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..

Probably he was just trying to impress you with what a hard man he is.

And if he's telling the truth about what he's seen and how it makes him feel there'll be plenty of Karmic retribution for him to face up to in his future...what goes around, comes around.

[tinmenace]

This Thread Has Been Hijacked :D
http://spiritual-nature.com/images/ilovedavid.jpg

[octopusrex]

Real "killers" only make up about 1% of the population. That means that only ONE of us in 100 would be willing and enjoy murdering other human beings. The rest are disgusted by this activity.

HOWEVER, this percentage can be changed by programming.

[delamo1999]

" Young men: The lowest aim in your life is to become a soldier. The good soldier never tries to distinguish right from wrong. He never thinks; never reasons; he only obeys. If he is ordered to fire on his fellow citizens, on his friends, on his neighbors, on his relatives, he obeys without hesitation. If he is ordered to fire down a crowded street when the poor are clamoring for bread, he obeys and sees the gray hairs of age stained with red and the life tide gushing from the breasts of women, feeling neither remorse nor sympathy. If he is ordered off as a firing squad to execute a hero or benefactor, he fires without hesitation, though he knows the bullet will pierce the noblest heart that ever beat in human breast.
A good soldier is a blind, heartless, soulless, murderous machine. He is not a man. He is not a brute, for brutes only kill in self defense. All that is human in him, all that is divine in him, all that constitutes the man has been sworn away when he took the enlistment roll. His mind, his conscience, aye, his very soul, are in the keeping of his officer.
No man can fall lower than the solder—it is a depth beneath which we cannot go. Keep the boys out of the army. It is hell.
Down with the army and the navy. We don't need killing institutions. We need life-giving institutions."


This was very well said. I too have never understood for my entire life why we needed to have any type of military; I understood at a very young age that slaughtering humans was wrong.

[on the road]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..

what do you expect from robots ?

I talked to an army bloke just back from iraq and he said he wasnt racist before he went but now after what he saw,he now hates them .

I can see his point though(kinda) ,they are the enemy to these guys and they have killed these lads friends and that.Its only natural to hate the enemy i think.

[wolfchild]

i wonder what he would say if he had seen DAVID'S (FREEDOM OR FASCISM DVD!
i had lent this dvd to a friend who then lent it to his friend who is in the army! i have now been told he wants out and is struggling to come to terms with the infomation that he watched on this dvd! :)

[deca]

Just be thankful hes there not you,how the fuck would you deal with it,fucking blame the c**ts that sent him there in the first place.

[hagbard_celine]

what do you expect from robots ?

I talked to an army bloke just back from iraq and he said he wasnt racist before he went but now after what he saw,he now hates them .

I can see his point though(kinda) ,they are the enemy to these guys and they have killed these lads friends and that.Its only natural to hate the enemy i think.

That's how they breed hatred, through traumatization. A friend of mine's uncle only became a racist after he was brutally mugged by a gang of black men. Since then he's "downloaded the 'hate blacks' software" as David says in his new book. 9/11 was a "hate ragheads" mass-download of the biggest kind. It's probably the hardest thing to, but we have to break through it.

[hagbard_celine]

i wonder what he would say if he had seen DAVID'S (FREEDOM OR FASCISM DVD!
i had lent this dvd to a friend who then lent it to his friend who is in the army! i have now been told he wants out and is struggling to come to terms with the infomation that he watched on this dvd! :)

Good idea!:)

Wereinfinitelove, now you know what to buy that guy for Christmas!

[hagbard_celine]

Just be thankful hes there not you,how the fuck would you deal with it,fucking blame the c**ts that sent him there in the first place.


Yes, the architects of the war are ones really responsible, but they only get away with what they do through the passive complcity of the rest of us. I'm not just talking about the military either. The armed forces are just one part of the machine. The media, healthcare, civil service, education all play a role.

[otto vollov]

I'm sure that most of those who post here have seen
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ Its a great way to introduce people to the world we really live in. They show the war profiteers and how the big banksters started and controlled the wars in the last century. Best of all you can down load for free and burn off copies. My family may never speak to me again. What a fine Christmas gift.

[weareinfinitelove]

You did the right thing in reporting your experience. Sorry you had such a bad time, but it's good you feel compassion for him. Military training really is an indoctrination machine designed to close down analytical thought. The first stage in any military training is rigid discipline, routine and ritual; this is combined with very hard work and sleep deprivation. It is the perfect recipe for producing a living robot. I almost joined the Royal Navy once and I'm so glad I didn't!

One of the paragraphs in the Ten Steps to Fascism article included: "Military service is glorified and glamourized", and isn't it just! The media and conventional society in general portrays soldiers as superhuman man-gods. I remember during the firemen's strike a few years ago, the news came on the TV asking whether the Army's "Green Goddess" fire engines were up to the task of modern firefighting. Someone who was watching with me said: "Why not just let them use modern fire engines?" I said "They're not trained to use them." My neighbour replied: "Training? These are soldiers! They don't need training."

And what does this public mindset have on the soldiers themselves? If you are talking to someone and they're in the military then within 2 to three sentences they will find some way to slip it into the discussion. They are programmed to believe that they are automatically superior to anyone else present and that is why they want to tell people so badly. In my experience, they get quite annoyed by those who are not effected by their perceived status. I remember talking in a pub to a man who was an Army medic who'd just come back from Iraq. He got upset when I didn't show any interest in the subject and tried talking about something else. I've found that if soldiers are in a pub in uniform they can become peeved even more easily, by people who simply don't look at them. I was once challenged in London by a group of uniformed soldiers in a pub because I walked passed their table seeming to be unaware of their presence.

My ex-girlfriend told me a few weeks ago that her son has just joined the Army. I didn't reply. I was torn between wanting to warn her and not upsetting her with what I know, which she has no control over.

The media pours copious prestige on the military. The catchphrase in the UK is "our brave boys". They also repeatedly drone about the dangers of warfare and the "courage" of those who face them. But according to my almanac, there are a number of jobs that are more dangerous than modern military service (generally; I can't speak for elite units like the SAS): deep-sea diver, demolition worker, fisherman, coal miner. Where's all the new headlines about "Our brave miners" and "Trawler hero dies so that we can enjoy our fish fingers."?

There are several reasons for this distortion, but the main one is that the military is so important to Elite power. Without Kissinger's "dumb, stupid animals" what would they do? Military service also means very hard and (quite, see above) risky work for comparatively low pay; who would do the job without all the glory?

excellent post. and OHhhhh YES.... he seemed to get very fucking agitated by the fact I didn't seem to be affected by his "superiority".

[octopusrex]

You like Zetas?

[veritas2007]

Some interesting comments here, Sadly, your British Soldier is nothing more than a drone. All of the training given is to ensure that under no circumstances should the individual analyse a situation, but react according to preprogrammed instructions.

I was in the Army years ago and can relate to your experience weareinfinitelove. I posted this on another forum a little while ago which might go someway to explain the attitude of the soldier you met:

My experiences of mind control or brainwashing in the army could probably be better described as conditioning reinforced by peer pressure. I joined in '89 and did a two year apprenticeship in the UK before being posted to Germany. They don't do it like that anymore. Anyway, I'll never forget me and my parents were invited to an open day at the military college, and the RSM told everyone "We break 'em and then we make 'em".

There is a constant drip feeding of reinforced loyalty and bigotry. Bullying is encouraged and is a way of conditioning everyone. "If you're not one of us, you're one of them". I didn't experience it myself and I always tried to play the system, although not always successfully wink.gif Your day-today life though is all preparation for war time. I joined my unit in Germany just as they got back from Op Granby in '91 and the stories I heard were just plain nasty but always told with that squaddie humour which tends to make it all ok. Even though they were on their way into Kuwait, life was the same as it was in Germany except they killed most of the people they met instead of beating them up in the German pubs.

That's how they get you to run at people firing guns at you.

Hope that gives you some insight into it. If you can, try and speak to some other ex squaddies who have deprogrammed themselves. I was only in 6 years and left in the mid '90s so its well out of my system now, although occasionally when I've had a beer the wife notices it creeping back in sad.gif

(Just to clarify, I'm not a wife beater!!)

My 10p psychoanalysis: The soldier you met probably suffers immensely from the struggle between what he knows to be right and what he has been told is right. The result of this duality manifests itself as 'Shock humour'. I guarantee he hates himself and wanted you to hate him to.

What he told you was merely a repetition of what is being drilled into them all whilst serving in Iraq. You must understand that anyone serving in Iraq and questioning what they are doing or why they are there is probably in more danger from his own 'people' than of any perceived 'militia' threat.

The Iraq indoctrination will be fed from the highest ranks and any deviation from this will indicate that an individual is insubordinate, not a team player and a threat to the 'unit'. The indoctrination also acts as an emotional pillow. Even the hardest of trained servicemen will find it easier to engage an enemy he perceives to be 'subhuman' than one who is an equal.

I pity those serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[hagbard_celine]

excellent post. and OHhhhh YES.... he seemed to get very fucking agitated by the fact I didn't seem to be affected by his "superiority".

Yes, I've found that they get very peeved indeed by people who are not "squaddie-struck" in the same way that some celebrities can't deal with people who are not star-stuck by them and treat them the same way as they do everyone else. Joan Collins was once thrown off an British Airways airliner because she objected when a stewardess wouldn't accept her autograph! "You little fucking cow!" were her exact words!:eek::rolleyes:

Soldiers are brainwashed to, among other things, believe they are a class above. The state needs them to have this mentality for the reasons I mention above. By not complying with their mindset, you are bursting their bubble. And that's a good thing! It needs bursting!:)

I'm proud to be a hospital porter and it's surprising how many people can't deal with that. Not just people in the forces either, but many nurses and doctors at my hospital. I wrote about my experiences here: http://hpanwo.blogspot.com/2007/12/dont-tell-em-were-porters.html I'm not going to let them put me off though!:)

[hagbard_celine]

excellent post. and OHhhhh YES.... he seemed to get very fucking agitated by the fact I didn't seem to be affected by his "superiority".


It makes them feel even worse when the person not affected is female.

[adzboarder]

" Young men: The lowest aim in your life is to become a soldier. The good soldier never tries to distinguish right from wrong. He never thinks; never reasons; he only obeys. If he is ordered to fire on his fellow citizens, on his friends, on his neighbors, on his relatives, he obeys without hesitation. If he is ordered to fire down a crowded street when the poor are clamoring for bread, he obeys and sees the gray hairs of age stained with red and the life tide gushing from the breasts of women, feeling neither remorse nor sympathy. If he is ordered off as a firing squad to execute a hero or benefactor, he fires without hesitation, though he knows the bullet will pierce the noblest heart that ever beat in human breast.
A good soldier is a blind, heartless, soulless, murderous machine. He is not a man. He is not a brute, for brutes only kill in self defense. All that is human in him, all that is divine in him, all that constitutes the man has been sworn away when he took the enlistment roll. His mind, his conscience, aye, his very soul, are in the keeping of his officer.
No man can fall lower than the solder—it is a depth beneath which we cannot go. Keep the boys out of the army. It is hell.
Down with the army and the navy. We don't need killing institutions. We need life-giving institutions."

That was excellent, well done Kuro, very well said. Fucking hell if we saved the military budget and moved it to health, well being and betterment of humanity this fucking shite hole reality could be so much better.

[revolutionary_jam]

that is such a sad story :( they guy has really been derranged :/

send him out on the streets and he's labeled a "psycho",
but ut him in khaki, give him a gun, send him out, he's a "brave hero, serving his country"

[otto vollov]

In the states there is a psychologist on the AM by the name of Dr. Laura. The doctor has a son who is serving his country in Iraq. She said once that he was fighting for all of our rights. Somebody called the show and asked her what rights he was fighting for because to any thinking citizen the government is taking away more of our rights. Dr. Laura said that the caller didn't have a clue what he was talking about. The caller asked her if she meant the rights of getting our oil from under their sand. She hung up on the guy and then proceeded into a long speech about how brave junior was. Wow! What a psychologist!

[revolutionary_jam]

more to be pitied :-/

[hagbard_celine]

that is such a sad story :( they guy has really been derranged :/

send him out on the streets and he's labeled a "psycho",
but ut him in khaki, give him a gun, send him out, he's a "brave hero, serving his country"

Someone once quoted:

"Kill one man and you're a murderer. Kill a million and you're a hero."

A few years ago there were allegations spread around that British soldiers had executed POW's during the Falklands War. The allegations were soon disproved, but before that happened The Sun published an editorial entitled "War- It's a Dirty Business". The theme of the article was that if "Our Brave Boys" had been lynching enemy troops then it simply didn't matter; that's just the way things go. It just goes to show how deeply these double-standards run!

There was another recent news story is very revealing when it comes to the tragedy of war, but also tragic in that it shows this insanely two-faced morality.

An inquest was held into the killing of a British soldier in Iraq, L/Co Matty Hull by American pilots in a “blue-on-blue”, an incident where an ally is attacked by mistake (Something Americans are particularly prone to!). The inquest received a lot of publicity and probably cost a lot of money. The TV showed pictures of Matty Hull’s grieving widow and black-box footage of the American pilots involved. The American pilots engage a tank which they think is Iraqi, then the command centre informs them that the tank is actually British. The pilots are devastated at the news; one of them even says “I’m going to be sick!”

The thing which bothered me is that this whole affair, with all its costs and publicity, is only taking place because the attacker and victim were “on the same side”. If the tank had been Iraqi then there would have been no inquest, no compensation for the victim’s family, little or no publicity; and would the pilots have been as deeply hurt and sickened as they were? Probably not. I’ve seen similar black-box footage of American pilots screaming with elation and excitement as they blow up Iraqi targets. Why? The “enemy” targets are people too, with parents, widows and partners. They’re every bit as much human beings as Matty Hull.

Many people will say that the answer is obvious: This was war and the two “sides” are “enemies”. Well, this is even worse! The one and only thing which makes the difference in attitude towards the killing of Matty Hull and identical Iraqi targets is political bureaucratic orders; the one and only difference between shame and elation at taking a human life!:eek::mad: If the orders were different then the “enemy forces” could well be allies; then they’d probably be having a drink together in the NAAFI and getting along fine!

It’s always the most obvious questions that never get asked!

[neutron flux]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty.

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..


It is said that 1 in 25 males are psychopathic. He could be one of them, he could also be programmed by society though, and only an examination of him to the extent of finding out if he has a conscience or empathy would clear that matter up.

[de_shit]

I love people that think they are the shit because they are in the army. I am the shit, de shit, they are not. Anyway, Ive seen a couple people who were in the army and when they see my hair I see a look in their eyes and I know they want me to join. Fucking assholes though man. But I love them though dude. I used to play with this dude online who was into the army, and was 15 and even said he wanted to join the army. Guess what his favorite tv show is? The Military channel. Hes a jock too, a football player. I guess people with peanut brains and hearts like him would want to join the army. It suits him fine. Hes a member of the army of one religion.

[hagbard_celine]

I love people that think they are the shit because they are in the army. I am the shit, de shit, they are not. Anyway, Ive seen a couple people who were in the army and when they see my hair I see a look in their eyes and I know they want me to join. Fucking assholes though man. But I love them though dude. I used to play with this dude online who was into the army, and was 15 and even said he wanted to join the army. Guess what his favorite tv show is? The Military channel. Hes a jock too, a football player. I guess people with peanut brains and hearts like him would want to join the army. It suits him fine. Hes a member of the army of one religion.


They don't want people in the Army who question and analyse. I've found that military and ex-military folk are very reverant for authority. They trust the govt virtually blindly. They're one of the hardest people to talk to about 9/11 etc.

[i_am]

They don't want people in the Army who question and analyse. I've found that military and ex-military folk are very reverant for authority. They trust the govt virtually blindly. They're one of the hardest people to talk to about 9/11 etc.

Not all of them.

My husband was in the Army but he certainly wasn't brainwashed and the peace marches in the area I used to live were organised by Vietnam Vets.

There are many veterans organisations for peace and/or against war.

You get psycopaths in all walks of life.

[hagbard_celine]

Not all of them.

My husband was in the Army but he certainly wasn't brainwashed and the peace marches in the area I used to live were organised by Vietnam Vets.

There are many veterans organisations for peace and/or against war.

You get psycopaths in all walks of life.


There are always exceptions. And Vietnam was different; it was a major waking-up-and-growing-up process.

[paganus]

in a study i did into hypnosis,military and police personnel are deemed the most easy catagory of all to hypnotise.now,does that mean they were already succeptible hence choice of job influnced by recruiters,or did they become more susceptible after?

[kuro]

if you're used to not thinking for yourself you're probably right, i'd say susceptible after the conditioning. You have to remember that people in places like the US are usually coerced into joining the military because of economic factors; it does have a lot of benefits when you look at it, it's a very tempting choice when you're struggling.

Fuck the army, join the anti!

[exmicrochipmafia]

" Young men: The lowest aim in your life is to become a soldier. The good soldier never tries to distinguish right from wrong. He never thinks; never reasons; he only obeys. If he is ordered to fire on his fellow citizens, on his friends, on his neighbors, on his relatives, he obeys without hesitation. If he is ordered to fire down a crowded street when the poor are clamoring for bread, he obeys and sees the gray hairs of age stained with red and the life tide gushing from the breasts of women, feeling neither remorse nor sympathy. If he is ordered off as a firing squad to execute a hero or benefactor, he fires without hesitation, though he knows the bullet will pierce the noblest heart that ever beat in human breast.
A good soldier is a blind, heartless, soulless, murderous machine. He is not a man. He is not a brute, for brutes only kill in self defense. All that is human in him, all that is divine in him, all that constitutes the man has been sworn away when he took the enlistment roll. His mind, his conscience, aye, his very soul, are in the keeping of his officer.
No man can fall lower than the solder—it is a depth beneath which we cannot go. Keep the boys out of the army. It is hell.
Down with the army and the navy. We don't need killing institutions. We need life-giving institutions."

Here's a quote from a former soldier to the poster of this crud. "Kiss my ass."
You personally insult me, and my late grand father, a WWII vet.
Not all soldiers are 'perfectly programmed' dunderhead. They want thinking men and women out there.
Most of the other words I have for you can't be uttered here but it involves various expletives, four letter words, and references to your varying orifices.
ANYBODY ELSE want to spit in a soldier's face?!

[exmicrochipmafia]

The aforementioned venom is stictly directed to the poster, not anybody else here. I respect everybody's views and their right to voice them. That being said I can't stand idly by while myself, and family members are attacked by that.
And BTW I'm married to an actual 'hippie from the sixties' who had serving members of her family and she won't stand for ignorant comments like that either so......:p

[eternal_spirit]

No one should ever join the military, unless your country and people are under attack. Then fight if it's in self defense. Maybe a good idea would be to train enough people to fight in case such a situation arises, but they would not be full time soldiers, once trained ( say one day a week over the course of a year would be enough time to train ) The rest of the week they would be useful members of society and be civilians like everyone else with jobs not military ones etc.

If we were invaded, the trained people would have knowledge and the access to weapons for defense. Of course we would still need some survailance, spying etc on other Countries as an early warning system.

[cruise4]

Which part of what he posted is inaccurate? Seems a fair assessment of the situation to me. Do you obey orders or do you personally decide whether or not to obey orders? If the former you are an idiot slave. If the latter, probably a murderer. Where's the grey area here. History may paint soldiering as great and glorious but its not true is it? Tell me, are the troops going to fight against the NWO and the puppet masters? Or are they going to continue to act as mob enforcers and criminal gangs? If you think acting against the people and the country earns you the right to be loved, think again. If it wasn't for you lot and the police we'd take this scum down tomorrow. On current form most of you are our enemies and thats YOUR choice. You ain't doing your job and you are NOT on the side of the righteous.

[tinmenace]

If you don't obey orders fully and completely and without question, they call you an conscientious objector and put you in jail.

Go figure.

[paganus]

If you don't obey orders fully and completely and without question, they call you an conscientious objector and put you in jail.

Go figure.

and yet when the Nazis at nuremberg said they were just following orders,it wasnt deemed a valid excuse.hmmm!

[kuro]

I find that quote to be a great piece of advice rather than an insult mate. Care to point out which part of it is ignorant? Im open to change. As you can see by my other post, i am aware and can understand the reasons people join the 'defence' forces. If your only remark is "kiss my ass" then it's not really worth getting into debate. Thanks for the support cruise4. All this soldier pride blasphemy stuff has got to go. One only has to look at the scandals soldiers and the SAS have done in iraq recently to see the type of thinking required. It's not about spitting into soldiers faces, I understand the hell people have gone through and they need as much help and rehab as they can get from what they've been forced to do. Sorry if it offended you, i know it's a strong and full on quote, but I stand by it 100%

[eternal_spirit]

If you don't obey orders fully and completely and without question, they call you an conscientious objector and put you in jail.

Go figure.



....................

Also, they used to "shoot deserters." And stop money ( a soldiers wage being sent to your family )

[cruise4]

"It's not about spitting into soldiers faces"

I'll just make it clear that's not my intention either. We want you to STOP being used by criminals. Thats all. Its the people that employ you. You are supposed to protect the people and the country. And you aren't doing it.

[exmicrochipmafia]

All I'm suggesting is that you don't generalize and lump all soldiers, currently serving, and former, into that type of comment. Yes, there are some who are like that, and I knew a few back in my day, but the vast majority are thinking men and women.
If your order is to secure a street, you're going to secure a street. If it's to take that hill, you're going to take that hill.
It's easy for people who have never served to cast stones at glass houses, but it's another thing to have been on the other side and listen to generalist comments that basically label all soldiers as thugs.
I'll give you an example. My grandfather served with British forces in WWII in Burma, fighting the Japanese, and he witnessed all the horrors of hell over there, and when the war was over and he got back to his normal life, he bared not a single grudge, and carried no racist thought in his head. Doesn't sound like a thug to me.

[exmicrochipmafia]

I'd also like to expand on the one soldier's actions and behaviors. This is not indicative of all soldiers. Nobody knows what horrors this young man has seen over there, except himself and his buddies. Nobody knows what this young man's childhood was like nor what his youth was like. You have no idea what may have caused this fellow to turn out this way. Many who would be labelled as psychos because they find 'family' or 'acceptance' in the military have never known family or friendship, or come from broken or otherwise abusive backgrounds, and an army life gives them focus and purpose and a sense of belonging, albeit misguided as you are inevitably the pawn of greather powers that be.
Many join because they come from such destitute upbringings that the paychecque is a varitable fortune compared to the standards they're used to.
Others join because they witness the events of the world and believe all they are told through the controlled media, and have hearts of gold, and wish to make the world a better place.
Yes there is a 'breaking down phase' in basic training. This is to get the new soldier used to thinking of his buddies and of other people before themselves, and to think of the team, or unit. In a fight, if one soldier freezes up, he/she jeopardises the lives of everybody else out there. Back in my day, I trusted all members of my section and platoon implicitly with my life as they trusted in me. That's what that's all about ladies and gentlemen.
Comments like I have been reading here are dangerously close to the Vietnam era where people would throw bags of dog feces at soldiers returning from the war. Instead, why not walk up to them, shake their hand, and say something like, "I'm sorry you had to undergo such hell out there, but thank you just the same."
Is this what enlightenment is all about? Should you not be offering to give that soldier a hug or shake his hand or give him unconditional love?
I have actually been debating on going back into the service. Even understanding what is going on in this world. I would not be going in for the 'thrill or glory' of battle, or to win medals to pin on my chest. I'd be going in for the purpose of protecting the innocents who are so frequently victimized, such as the one village in Afghanistan, that the Taliban went into and beheaded every single man, young and old. It was our Canadian men and women who went in there to find that horror. Sometimes all you can do is to stand up and fight the violence for pleasure seeking psychopaths, and no amount of infinite love can dissuade people like that from their acts of horror.

[paganus]

I'd also like to expand on the one soldier's actions and behaviors. This is not indicative of all soldiers. Nobody knows what horrors this young man has seen over there, except himself and his buddies. Nobody knows what this young man's childhood was like nor what his youth was like. You have no idea what may have caused this fellow to turn out this way. Many who would be labelled as psychos because they find 'family' or 'acceptance' in the military have never known family or friendship, or come from broken or otherwise abusive backgrounds, and an army life gives them focus and purpose and a sense of belonging, albeit misguided as you are inevitably the pawn of greather powers that be.
Many join because they come from such destitute upbringings that the paychecque is a varitable fortune compared to the standards they're used to.
Others join because they witness the events of the world and believe all they are told through the controlled media, and have hearts of gold, and wish to make the world a better place.
Yes there is a 'breaking down phase' in basic training. This is to get the new soldier used to thinking of his buddies and of other people before themselves, and to think of the team, or unit. In a fight, if one soldier freezes up, he/she jeopardises the lives of everybody else out there. Back in my day, I trusted all members of my section and platoon implicitly with my life as they trusted in me. That's what that's all about ladies and gentlemen.
Comments like I have been reading here are dangerously close to the Vietnam era where people would throw bags of dog feces at soldiers returning from the war. Instead, why not walk up to them, shake their hand, and say something like, "I'm sorry you had to undergo such hell out there, but thank you just the same."
Is this what enlightenment is all about? Should you not be offering to give that soldier a hug or shake his hand or give him unconditional love?
I have actually been debating on going back into the service. Even understanding what is going on in this world. I would not be going in for the 'thrill or glory' of battle, or to win medals to pin on my chest. I'd be going in for the purpose of protecting the innocents who are so frequently victimized, such as the one village in Afghanistan, that the Taliban went into and beheaded every single man, young and old. It was our Canadian men and women who went in there to find that horror. Sometimes all you can do is to stand up and fight the violence for pleasure seeking psychopaths, and no amount of infinite love can dissuade people like that from their acts of horror.thank you for what?

[cruise4]

"I'm sorry you had to undergo such hell out there, but thank you just the same."

What do you mean thankyou? Thankyou for what? I'd thank you for saying "NO". Certainly not for saying Yes.

If you want thanking, join up and persuade your buddies to march into London and arrest everyone in the City of, whilst shutting down every last TV outlet, arrest every MI6/MI5/Met employee, arrest every government minister and guard all paperwork. And a few of your top brass too. Then the people can come in and actually work through the evidence.

And as regards Afghanistan. The moment you leave, if not before, it'll be exactly as its always been. Your mates have died and killed for zero, nada, zilch. Like in Iraq, Vietnam, WW1, WW2 etc. they were 'setup'.

Which bit of "its not your country and they aren't attacking yours" don't you get???

So you go on 'holding that hill' or 'taking that street'. And you'll go on being totally ridiculous parodies of soldiers. Its not us that doesn't understand. Its you and your soon to die, mates! You know, those you say you are trained to care about... its bullshit.

Break people down in the French resistance first did they. I doubt it. They do that so that when your so called officers say shoot that innocent, you turn around with no thought and just do it.

STOP being suckers. We don't want you dying, we don't want anyone dying... but your actions are helping others arrive at the point where many many will. Go to Jail or become a murderer is an easy choice.

[cruise4]

Just for a bit of light relief...

When I was young and naive I applied for Officer training and had to go on the pre-sandhurst testing course. It was all going fine and we were up on the Assault Course where we arrived at the Fireman type pole... quite high. The bloke in front of me got his turn... great big fat guy, he grabbed the pole... and fell down the whole thing and broke both his legs.

That was that.

[kuro]

we already made it very clear that it's got nothing to do with spitting in their faces, if you read my comment a hug would probably be the greatest thing you could do. Your comment just solidifies that alot of people get suckered into joining the 'defense' force for the wrong reasons. That quote doesnt 'lump' anyone, it states what soldiers HAVE to do, and that is obey. The army is the most anti-humanitarian, negative branch of the state; the enormous expenditure of wealth poured into the military every day could bring tremendous benefits to the world. But that's not what those in control want.

"It ll be a great day when the schools have all the money they need, and the army has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber"

[cruise4]

I suppose the bottom line is we need to stop soldiering and policing, as its being practised, and has been practised. So exmicrochipmafia have you any suggestions on how to go about that in an objective way... and why your nick?

[xgas1]

The Pioneers Of A Warless World Are The Young Men (and Women) Who Refuse Military Service. Albert Einstein.

[cruise4]

The Powers that Be create a perceived and false military situation.
They then send in soldiers to kill and be killed.
Meanwhile the criminals make oodles of cash.

Now can anyone point out anything 'Heroic' or 'justified' here?

[hagbard_celine]

The Powers that Be create a perceived and false military situation.
They then send in soldiers to kill and be killed.
Meanwhile the criminals make oodles of cash.

Now can anyone point out anything 'Heroic' or 'justified' here?

No. It's artificially promoted as "heroic" so that people will do it! Would anyone actually join the military without the public prestige associated with it?

[the spackler]

No. It's artificially promoted as "heroic" so that people will do it! Would anyone actually join the military without the public prestige associated with it?

and those that do join are already swept away by the programming. i can see it now, they've been sitting on dads lap while they watch john wayne make being in the military a noble thing to do...

[hagbard_celine]

and those that do join are already swept away by the programming. i can see it now, they've been sitting on dads lap while they watch john wayne make being in the military a noble thing to do...

It's what Leo Strauss would call a "neccesary myth"

[seamus]

No. It's artificially promoted as "heroic" so that people will do it! Would anyone actually join the military without the public prestige associated with it?
Yes. They are called "monsters". I have seen them. I have known a few. They are usually the scrapings of the bottom of the human barrel, who get it together enough to scrawl their names on contracts.

I joined the military mainly out of financial duress, and also out of a desire for the sort of fellowship that the military are portrayed as having. One thing is clear frmo my time in the service: As of 1994, it was every man for himself. I was still in AIT when they introduced the stress card in basic training. I must say, I'm glad they did that. When a recruit flashes his stress card, he's pretty much done with the Army. Don't know how it is for the other branches.

David summed it up well in his "UNIVERSAL SOLDIER" recitation. There would be no war without the thugs (soldiers) who back up the criminals ("rulers"). No one has the right to impose his will on any other.

peace,
s

[infin8_possibility]

I agree with alot of the replys in this thread that the Harmy turn innocent human beings into mind controlled monsters. I have personal experience with this situation... A good friend of mine that ive just got back in contact with was in the Harmy for 3 years and said he loved everything about it, but he got discharged for breaking the rules. After he was discharged he told me he felt lost and just didnt know what to do with himself, later i think he must of lost his mind for a period of time as in the space of a month he wrote his car off, was in trouble with the law, was kicked out of his family home (thus homeless and living in a hostel), and worst of all he found himself tied up in heavy "Class A" drug use.

But I am pleased to report that he is now in rehab and sorting himself out... but the gut renching thing is, he says he wants back into the Harmy and is obviously mentally damaged by his whole experience.

Much Love.

[hagbard_celine]

I agree with alot of the replys in this thread that the Harmy turn innocent human beings into mind controlled monsters. I have personal experience with this situation... A good friend of mine that ive just got back in contact with was in the Harmy for 3 years and said he loved everything about it, but he got discharged for breaking the rules. After he was discharged he told me he felt lost and just didnt know what to do with himself, later i think he must of lost his mind for a period of time as in the space of a month he wrote his car off, was in trouble with the law, was kicked out of his family home (thus homeless and living in a hostel), and worst of all he found himself tied up in heavy "Class A" drug use.

But I am pleased to report that he is now in rehab and sorting himself out... but the gut renching thing is, he says he wants back into the Harmy and is obviously mentally damaged by his whole experience.

Much Love.

Poor guy. Hope he's OK soon. He's got over his drug addiction, but obviously not his army addiction. It can become addictive and rates of depression, homelessness and alcoholism are high among ex-servicemen. During my brief dabble with the Royal Navy when I left school I could tell I was joining something that was more than just a job; it was a complete way of seeing the world, a family almost.

All in all though, I'm more happy now than ever that I didn't stay on :).

[infin8_possibility]

Poor guy. Hope he's OK soon. He's got over his drug addiction, but obviously not his army addiction. It can become addictive and rates of depression, homelessness and alcoholism are high among ex-servicemen. During my brief dabble with the Royal Navy when I left school I could tell I was joining something that was more than just a job; it was a complete way of seeing the world, a family almost.

All in all though, I'm more happy now than ever that I didn't stay on :).

Nice to hear m8, they cant penetrate every human mind to the point of destruction

[deliciously_fresh]

No. It's artificially promoted as "heroic" so that people will do it! Would anyone actually join the military without the public prestige associated with it?

True. I'm sure the financial incentive plays a part too. Also, grown men get to live out their 'Rambo' fantasy. :rolleyes::D

[coshh]

When I wanted to join the army it was more because I wanted to sacrifice myself for something, but I was and am too picky to allow that something to be a set of ideals I disagree with that are a thin veneer for an ultimately soulless materialist agenda.
So I gave up on that plan but I am still pretty mentally stuck in the aesthetic of sacrifice. Course being of the feminine persuasion it probably wouldn't have been as much of an option for me anyway.

[steevo]

When I wanted to join the army it was more because I wanted to sacrifice myself for something, but I was and am too picky to allow that something to be a set of ideals I disagree with that are a thin veneer for an ultimately soulless materialist agenda.
So I gave up on that plan but I am still pretty mentally stuck in the aesthetic of sacrifice. Course being of the feminine persuasion it probably wouldn't have been as much of an option for me anyway.

Yeah best not join up if you are a bit feminine mate, I dont think that sort of stuff goes down well in the army.

[coshh]

Yeah best not join up if you are a bit feminine mate, I dont think that sort of stuff goes down well in the army.
I am not just a bit feminine :D

[joyful]

I like to call them arseheads, because you get more sense out of an arse than a serving soldier. It's like talking to a rolled up News of the World, utter foolishness in a shell of arrogance. They sincerely subscribe to all the War on Terror bullshit from start to finish because they are taught to not question authority. The average insurgent is far more conscious of what he is doing than british soldiers. From what comes out of their mouth it sounds like british soldiers are spun around until they are dizzy and then pushed in the direction of the enemy.

Here is one soldier at least who knows what's going on:

Brigadier General Says Israel Is The Problem, Not Iraq
http://www.rense.com/general33/pepr.htm

[sickofslavery]

In the states there is a psychologist on the AM by the name of Dr. Laura. The doctor has a son who is serving his country in Iraq. She said once that he was fighting for all of our rights. Somebody called the show and asked her what rights he was fighting for because to any thinking citizen the government is taking away more of our rights. Dr. Laura said that the caller didn't have a clue what he was talking about. The caller asked her if she meant the rights of getting our oil from under their sand. She hung up on the guy and then proceeded into a long speech about how brave junior was. Wow! What a psychologist!

Laura Ingram right? I can't stand her or any other smug conservo radio "personality." Yet sure enough every morning my mom has got her on the radio. *Sigh* My parents infuriate me.

[hagbard_celine]

When I wanted to join the army it was more because I wanted to sacrifice myself for something, but I was and am too picky to allow that something to be a set of ideals I disagree with that are a thin veneer for an ultimately soulless materialist agenda.
So I gave up on that plan but I am still pretty mentally stuck in the aesthetic of sacrifice. Course being of the feminine persuasion it probably wouldn't have been as much of an option for me anyway.

You'd need to be on your guard. Have you seen The General's Daughter? It's based on a true story. There was a similar case of female soldiers being sexually abused at the Royal Logistics Corps HQ in Oxfordshire a few years ago.

Most servicemen I've spoken too say the same thing as you: That they joined up to serve their country. A few of them soon realize that they've been lied to and some of that few have the guts to do something about it. For me, the braverst soliders are those who mutiny.

I was going to join the Royal Navy simply because it looked like fun! I'd have been well-and-truly fucked up by now if I'd gfone ahead with it!

[hagbard_celine]

This is intereasting! Not only because Stokes exposes the alternative history of WWII, but because he reveals how the men in uniform are manipulated into serving the will of the powers-that-be who secretly control both sides:

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2008/01jan/RICR-080127.php

[shellygurrrl]

Most people in the army are just collecting a paycheck like any other, trying to make their way through life.

[adimon]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..

What a horrible boy/man. Regardless of your views on the military as a valid career, I urge you not to judge all soldiers on this one idiot. He is in a small minority of mentally unstable soldiers who get some sort of perverse kick out of what is actually really horrible work. Soldiers have many different ways of dealing with their experiences. Unfortunately a few end up like this person you described. But not the majority.

[adimon]

There was a similar case of female soldiers being sexually abused at the Royal Logistics Corps HQ in Oxfordshire a few years ago.

Just for the record, the HQ of the RLC is in Deepcut, Surrey.

Deepcut has become a well-known name in many houses due to the tragedies that occurred there.

It also had more effect on the way that the army conducts training and barracks life in general, than any other event in modern history. The Army has gotten a lot 'softer'. I guess to most people that is a good thing, although clearly many of you would like to see a world without armies altogether. :)

[hagbard_celine]

What a horrible boy/man. Regardless of your views on the military as a valid career, I urge you not to judge all soldiers on this one idiot. He is in a small minority of mentally unstable soldiers who get some sort of perverse kick out of what is actually really horrible work. Soldiers have many different ways of dealing with their experiences. Unfortunately a few end up like this person you described. But not the majority.


Maybe not in all units, but something David put up in the headlines a few moths ago concerned me: A poll of the US Marine Corps, carried out a few months ago revealled that a small majority of the troops said that they would NOT report a fellow marine if they witnessed him committing a war crime.

[hagbard_celine]

Just for the record, the HQ of the RLC is in Deepcut, Surrey.

Deepcut has become a well-known name in many houses due to the tragedies that occurred there.

It also had more effect on the way that the army conducts training and barracks life in general, than any other event in modern history. The Army has gotten a lot 'softer'. I guess to most people that is a good thing, although clearly many of you would like to see a world without armies altogether. :)


Of course I think nearly everyone would want to see that! :)What we differ on is the method for achieving it.

I'm glad the army is getting "softer". Anything that gets more and more servicemen keeping a mind of their own and rebelling against bad things they are ordered to do is OK in my book!

[paganus]

there was a soldier in Vietnam,his name escapes me,he witnessed the aftermath of the Mai Lai massacre and he and the crew of his helicopter gunship headed off the unit responsible at the entrance to another village.they trained their guns on the approaching u.s soldiers and ordered them to leave the villagers alone.in court he said it was his understanding that a soldiers job was to protect the innocent,and so he did just that.after a public outcry they were unable to prosecute him or his crew.to this day,he's treated like a hero(which he is) in Vietnam.now THATS a soldier!

[adimon]

Maybe not in all units, but something David put up in the headlines a few moths ago concerned me: A poll of the US Marine Corps, carried out a few months ago revealled that a small majority of the troops said that they would NOT report a fellow marine if they witnessed him committing a war crime.

I take it you mean 'small minority' ! :D

Have you got a link to this poll, HC? :confused:

[thirdwave]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..



It takes all sorts....

I have met some in the army who are decent people.... they can tell something is wrong but kind of keep their distance from it..... others are like you say, total meat heads who love the power..... well if they understood the laws of Karma maybe he would not be so confident.

[the spackler]

Most people in the army are just collecting a paycheck like any other, trying to make their way through life.


IF THIS IS TRUE THEY'RE EVEN BIGGER WHORES THAN I THOUGHT!:D

I'M PRETTY PICKY ABOUT WHAT I DO TO EARN MONEY...;)

[marpat]

" Young men: The lowest aim in your life is to become a soldier. The good soldier never tries to distinguish right from wrong. He never thinks; never reasons; he only obeys. If he is ordered to fire on his fellow citizens, on his friends, on his neighbors, on his relatives, he obeys without hesitation. If he is ordered to fire down a crowded street when the poor are clamoring for bread, he obeys and sees the gray hairs of age stained with red and the life tide gushing from the breasts of women, feeling neither remorse nor sympathy. If he is ordered off as a firing squad to execute a hero or benefactor, he fires without hesitation, though he knows the bullet will pierce the noblest heart that ever beat in human breast.
A good soldier is a blind, heartless, soulless, murderous machine. He is not a man. He is not a brute, for brutes only kill in self defense. All that is human in him, all that is divine in him, all that constitutes the man has been sworn away when he took the enlistment roll. His mind, his conscience, aye, his very soul, are in the keeping of his officer.
No man can fall lower than the solder—it is a depth beneath which we cannot go. Keep the boys out of the army. It is hell.
Down with the army and the navy. We don't need killing institutions. We need life-giving institutions."

This is bullshit. A lot of soldiers are meat heads but to say they would kill indiscrimintely is just bollocks. If anybody in the forces is given an order which is illegal, like the crap you have just said, then they have to refuse it.

You should pray that there never comes a time when your life may depend on people in the forces as you will find they will be expected to give their lives to save yours, and I think their sacrifice would be wasted. You blind people never see anything good in what the armed forces achieve. I never hear you singing their praises when they deliver food and relief supplies to deprived people, or how they have to work their asses off when people are trapped by floods.

I am in the forces. Why don't you read some of my posts and decide what sort of animal I am.

[cruise4]

"If anybody in the forces is given an order which is illegal, like the crap you have just said, then they have to refuse it."

Yes... where are the droves driving home from Iraq and Afghanistan? Still taking orders from a hierarchy of proven traitors aren't they?

"Why don't you read some of my posts and decide what sort of animal I am."

I have. Ignorant and wilfully so. You seem to have a total aversion to actual research. If you had found out how money is a scam and how admiralty law worked you'd realise anyone in the army or Police force is a mafia style mob enforcer for serious mass murdering criminals. That what sort of animal you are.

I pray I never see a military man because if I do I will recognise an enemy first until proved otherwise.

You are ignorant slave followers of propoganda. Wake up! Stop working for criminals and expecting some sympathy. You work for the people and they are being shafted left right and centre and you do nothing but go on further killing sprees based on lies and manipulation.

[jamston]

I'd agree with the poster who was defending himself of the blanket accusations all soldiers are mindless brainwashed drones.

I have a friend serving over in afghanistan, well he's the little bro of one of my best friends, but also a very good mate too. He signed up a year or so ago and i couldnt burst his bubble on it, he was raring to go. He was there for about a week before he realised he had made a big mistake and obviously this was after the break and remake programming. The first time he was back you could see in his eyes hes a changed man, not in a pyscotic killer way, although he very somberly and sadly informed us he had killed. Once was a guy running at the compound when he was on sentry, he gave him ample oppourtunity to stop, by shooting around his feet, something for which he could have been court-martialed for as he had been given direct orders to kill. The guy didnt stop so he had to shoot him. Normally hes an artillery gunner and he said he doesnt want to think how many innocent men women and children hes killed. I suppose if he did while he was over there it would truly break him. Its worth noting maybe that he and his bro are both ex mormons and like all religions they have a strong look out for your fellow man ethos, although the mormon one is obviously a little twisted. They are a funny bunch though ex mormons, no matter how much theyve rejected it, they still seem to defend it somehow, ive had many heated and hilarious debates with them but i still love them both to bits and i hope your still safe and bearing up luke old mate. Slight aside, one of my other ex mormon mates fathers was the local mormon bishop and he told me one day quite flipantly 'Yeah dads got a big stash of survival stuff in the basement for the apocolypse, the church told him to collect it and they will tell him when to use it' :eek: naturally i was a little freaked.

Back to the military
I watached a documentary, mainstream, a few years back called 'The 10%ers' i think. It claimed that theres about ten percent of the population who are geniuine certifiable pyschopaths. It also argued that many of them gravitate to the armed forces and that most of our war 'heroes' were quite probably the 10 percent of the population who would have gone on to be violent murdering fuckheads. one of its other speculations via a case study was that perhaps the military keeps these guys sort of in line and allows them to control their pyschotic tendencies. The case study spoke of a guy who was a complete animal on the battlefield in ww2 but after the war went home and became a lovely quite gentile family man, never to harm a person again. It also said the army know of and internally refer to some people as 10%ers, like some sort of elite. Just putting my two cents in


edit: Just spoke to my mate and hes spoke to his brother today, hes having a really really hard time at the mo. Apparently all the taliban who have been holed up in the mountains for the winter have come out of hibernation and he said at his station/compound there has literally bullets pinging around them 24/7. Not good. We're going to get together tomorrow and burn him some dvds and make a vid for a care package. Reckon i should try and sneak on loads of anti war docus etc or is that likely to get him in trouble when they search the mail? Or just cause him shit with his fellow troops? Good news though, hes back at the end of March.

[marpat]

"If anybody in the forces is given an order which is illegal, like the crap you have just said, then they have to refuse it."

Yes... where are the droves driving home from Iraq and Afghanistan? Still taking orders from a hierarchy of proven traitors aren't they?

"Why don't you read some of my posts and decide what sort of animal I am."

I have. Ignorant and wilfully so. You seem to have a total aversion to actual research. If you had found out how money is a scam and how admiralty law worked you'd realise anyone in the army or Police force is a mafia style mob enforcer for serious mass murdering criminals. That what sort of animal you are.

I pray I never see a military man because if I do I will recognise an enemy first until proved otherwise.

You are ignorant slave followers of propoganda. Wake up! Stop working for criminals and expecting some sympathy. You work for the people and they are being shafted left right and centre and you do nothing but go on further killing sprees based on lies and manipulation.

Crusie, how can they be traitors? a traitor is someone who has turned against their country so can you explain how any service person serving their country is a traitor? it is illogical. You are actually the traitor. You are against everything your country stands for, you hate your country, the very country that allows you to have freebasing beliefs, and you hate the people who have volunteered to defends your nations rights. Do you hate the ones who are trying every day to stop bomb attack in Britain and save people lives? perhaps you think this is just a hoax?

Maybe you would like to comment about when the military deliver relief aid to disaster areas, such as in the wake of the Tsunami?

Why should I give my job up when I believe I am doing no wrong? Every action I undertake will have to be in accordance with UK law so I cannot be classed as a criminal and I am definitely not mind controlled. And why would I expect sympathy from you. I don't need any and don't expect any. Do you think I would look to you for sympathy when I think your a wanker. Maybe you should get a job and stop living of benefits.

I like how you comment on my posts. I recall a previous one your responses to my post was to say 'look this up' and that was it. You gave no case for what you think and no original thinking, and no justification for your belief, which makes me think you are not a person with your own mind. You just posts links. You have a bad habit for this so it really smacks of hypocracy when you call people ignorant.

Lets get this clear about service people. Most of them are good decent people doing their job. Unfortunately some are bigotted, aggressive morons who enjoy the violent stuff, stuff that 99% don't really wish to come across. In any job there will be idiots who love to intimidate and the forces do have such people, although they are generally unpopular people. How many people out there have had relatives in the forces, who have served and sometimes died in service of their country? were they mindless robots murdering for the state? do you dishonour their memories with comments like that of cruise4?

People may wish to believe that we are mind controlled and have no ideas of our own but unless you personally know a lot of people to base this idea on then it's just weak, biased, blind speculation. The fact is that it is human nature to be violent and people need defending against possible threats. Yes people may say that invading Iraq is not defending people here, but we all know that is about saving face for the US so they don't look like they are on their own. Do any of you think that service people believe we are out there to rescue the Iraqis and Afghans? do you think we don't have opinions?

Personally I don't care if you hate me for my job, I will not abandon it because some conspiracy theorists think it is immoral. Some of these critics are happy to sit in the dole queues getting handouts from the government they so freely admit to hating, getting paid out of my taxes to sit at home and think about how evil the world is. The world isn't evil, the hearts of people are. As a member of the forces I am used to being resented by the civilian population as many hate successful people with good jobs, local men hate the idea of healthy, fit men with money coming and taking the local woman away. The fact is I don't care if you little theories want to make me out to be some nasty robot. I know in my heart what I am and it will not be up to a bunch of conspiracy theorists to be the judge of my lifes successes and failures.

This is where I put my flag up and say this is my job. You may comment as you like but I will not get involved in some childish bickering about who is moral or immoral.

Perhaps people like cruise4 should piss off to a country that they can appreciate, one with less CCTV and spying, perhaps Pakistian or Chile. If you hate your country then you should go somewhere else where you can maybe be something more than a subversive traitor, a person who has pledged to make yourself an enemy of the country where you have protected rights. Probably no free government handouts in those countries for you!!!!

[armoured_amazon]

there was a soldier in Vietnam,his name escapes me,he witnessed the aftermath of the Mai Lai massacre and he and the crew of his helicopter gunship headed off the unit responsible at the entrance to another village.they trained their guns on the approaching u.s soldiers and ordered them to leave the villagers alone.in court he said it was his understanding that a soldiers job was to protect the innocent,and so he did just that.after a public outcry they were unable to prosecute him or his crew.to this day,he's treated like a hero(which he is) in Vietnam.now THATS a soldier!

:D :D :D

[cruise4]

marpat... you are an idiot. The people giving the orders ARE the terrorists. The orders you follow are criminal orders given by Murderers. I want to save your life and those of your fellow soldiers. I love my country and I'm trying to save it. But people like you protect the criminals and the murderers and the child abusers and you do it through pig ignorance of the real world situation. YOU protect them. You should be arresting them. Not following orders off them. There have been more wars since UN inception than in all the time prior. The US has bombed over 230 countries with our help in a good number. The only people who have started any and every war is the 'Leaders'. For christ sake... wake up! Our freedoms are going down the drain, thanks largely to you and the Police. If you lot disappeared the Government scum and their minions would be gone tomorrow. If you asked the people if they wanted to go to war... almost to a man they would say NO. These are your bosses!

YOU ARE IN THE SERVICE OF EVIL, whether knowingly or not, but you no longer have that excuse as proof is everywhere.... but of course YOU don't find out. Because you do not want to face the possibility that you are manipulated cannon fodder for bankers to make money off whilst having a good laugh.

And people in my family did fight in the wars, and they would be turning in their grave seeing that nothing was learnt and people were protecting Nazis who are in control in the UK. And you fight for them. You fight for Hitlers 4th reich. You complete and utter fool. You are the very definition of Unsuccessful and I've seen military wives. You are welcome! And I'm not claiming benefits (Do you read anything). You dishonour their memories by repeating the futile exercise.

"Yes people may say that invading Iraq is not defending people here, but we all know that is about saving face for the US so they don't look like they are on their own."

How can even your tiny mind claim this is justification for over a million dead?

Whatever... the facts will be confronting you soon and then you will find you cannot justify your actions and will judge yourself guilty. And you did it to yourself because you refused to read and take heed.

Bottom line: Killing is not ended by more killing.

And I post links because then you can read them too. Like I already have. This is how you learn.

[marpat]

marpat... you are an idiot. The people giving the orders ARE the terrorists. The orders you follow are criminal orders given by Murderers. I want to save your life and those of your fellow soldiers. I love my country and I'm trying to save it. But people like you protect the criminals and the murderers and the child abusers and you do it through pig ignorance of the real world situation. YOU protect them. You should be arresting them. Not following orders off them. There have been more wars since UN inception than in all the time prior. The US has bombed over 230 countries with our help in a good number. The only people who have started any and every war is the 'Leaders'. For christ sake... wake up! Our freedoms are going down the drain, thanks largely to you and the Police. If you lot disappeared the Government scum and their minions would be gone tomorrow. If you asked the people if they wanted to go to war... almost to a man they would say NO. These are your bosses!

YOU ARE IN THE SERVICE OF EVIL, whether knowingly or not, but you no longer have that excuse as proof is everywhere.... but of course YOU don't find out. Because you do not want to face the possibility that you are manipulated cannon fodder for bankers to make money off whilst having a good laugh.

And people in my family did fight in the wars, and they would be turning in their grave seeing that nothing was learnt and people were protecting Nazis who are in control in the UK. And you fight for them. You fight for Hitlers 4th reich. You complete and utter fool. You are the very definition of Unsuccessful and I've seen military wives. You are welcome! And I'm not claiming benefits (Do you read anything). You dishonour their memories by repeating the futile exercise.

"Yes people may say that invading Iraq is not defending people here, but we all know that is about saving face for the US so they don't look like they are on their own."

How can even your tiny mind claim this is justification for over a million dead?

Whatever... the facts will be confronting you soon and then you will find you cannot justify your actions and will judge yourself guilty. And you did it to yourself because you refused to read and take heed.

Bottom line: Killing is not ended by more killing.

And I post links because then you can read them too. Like I already have. This is how you learn.


Your a delusional wanker. Bit of a hypocrite aren't you. It was OK for you family to serve but anybody serving in the modern world is wrong? If the war was started by the illuminati then they fought as part of that agenda, hence they were part of an illumiati controlled war. They then committed murder as it was part of an illuminati plan. They did not have to fight as they could have just went to prison and been deemed cowards, but they did. It is a pity you don't seen to show the same sense of national duty.

What do you think you are going to achieve by sitting in your room reading and posting about conspiracy theories? you will achieve nothing because you are a moral coward. If you are so convinced about how evil our country is then why not try and start a revolution? trying to save your country? your talking out of your arse. What exactly are you doing to save this country you so claim to love? posting theories on a conspiracy website? very pro-active that. You will have the government on the ropes in no time.

Like I said I don't belive that I doing wrong by doing my job. You are entitled to think what you want and I will defend with my life your right to have an your opinions, as I have signed in my contract, no matter how twisted they are. And why do you never, ever have a comment about the good things that military people do, such as helping out in disaster ares, delivering aid, acting as peace keepers between hostile armies, etc. You don't want to give them any credibility for the good they do.

I'm sure that you will still say that I am scum even though I am not actually a soldier and not actually doing a front line job. The only time I would ever be expected to fire a weapon is if my life or the life of somebody near me was in danger, but one bucket of tar and one brush eh.

[steevo]

marpat... you are an idiot. The people giving the orders ARE the terrorists. The orders you follow are criminal orders given by Murderers. I want to save your life and those of your fellow soldiers. I love my country and I'm trying to save it. But people like you protect the criminals and the murderers and the child abusers and you do it through pig ignorance of the real world situation. YOU protect them. You should be arresting them. Not following orders off them. There have been more wars since UN inception than in all the time prior. The US has bombed over 230 countries with our help in a good number. The only people who have started any and every war is the 'Leaders'. For christ sake... wake up! Our freedoms are going down the drain, thanks largely to you and the Police. If you lot disappeared the Government scum and their minions would be gone tomorrow. If you asked the people if they wanted to go to war... almost to a man they would say NO. These are your bosses!

YOU ARE IN THE SERVICE OF EVIL, whether knowingly or not, but you no longer have that excuse as proof is everywhere.... but of course YOU don't find out. Because you do not want to face the possibility that you are manipulated cannon fodder for bankers to make money off whilst having a good laugh.

And people in my family did fight in the wars, and they would be turning in their grave seeing that nothing was learnt and people were protecting Nazis who are in control in the UK. And you fight for them. You fight for Hitlers 4th reich. You complete and utter fool. You are the very definition of Unsuccessful and I've seen military wives. You are welcome! And I'm not claiming benefits (Do you read anything). You dishonour their memories by repeating the futile exercise.

"Yes people may say that invading Iraq is not defending people here, but we all know that is about saving face for the US so they don't look like they are on their own."

How can even your tiny mind claim this is justification for over a million dead?

Whatever... the facts will be confronting you soon and then you will find you cannot justify your actions and will judge yourself guilty. And you did it to yourself because you refused to read and take heed.

Bottom line: Killing is not ended by more killing.

And I post links because then you can read them too. Like I already have. This is how you learn.

I agree totally with what you have posted there Cruise4.

[cruise4]

"They did not have to fight as they could have just went to prison and been deemed cowards, but they did."

The difference between then and now is the illuminati or whoever, were'nt exposed. Now they are!

Since about day 3 of learning about this stuff I have been distributing DVD's, Flyers and Stickers because the only way this thing will be won is by education. I have no job and virtually living on charity although I do fix computers etc. Why? Because I am not prepared to pay this scum a penny as its paying for my own enslavement. Soon, God willing I will be off electricity and water if need be. I don't pay council Tax and quite prepared to go to jail over it and I don't pay for a TV license as its propoganda. I am taking steps to be prepared to grow food for myself and others. I challenge you to do a bit of research and you can't be arsed. I've actually found out and read the documents and material available. Try talking to a few veterans on PrisonPlanet, or cops on there. They know whats going down. get over to some of the vet sites. Find out why soldiers are shooting themselves to avoid re-deployment, look at the suicide rates, look at the Guantanamo reports coming out from people who were there, look at what happened to the firemen and cops at ground zero. Look at what the governement said about air quality and the state of the first responders now? Look where the 9/11 funds went.... just find out for yourself.


"the good things that military people do, such as helping out in disaster ares, delivering aid, acting as peace keepers between hostile armies, etc. You don't want to give them any credibility for the good they do."

Disaster areas? Like what? The possibly created Tsunami? Aid to which areas? Those economic regions in the stone age thanks to government policies and a deliberate war against the 3rd world? The IMF and Worldbank frauds actually destroying economies? Peace Keepers? Where. In NWO manipulated Yugoslavia? Kosovo? Iraq? Sudan? Hostile Armies... Cia creations? US inspired takeovers? Do you know about any of this? You just do not understand the depth of the situation. Nearly all horrors in this world are created deliberately. How can this possibly be true is what you should concentrate your research on and FIND OUT! Prove this isn't the case. CIA/MI6 are heavily involved in the world drug trade. So when you see a drug addict realise its black op government policy to do this to people and then have you guys manipulated into thinking the users are the scum. This is what they do. Take your blinkers off man!

Looking at the 'disaster' and 'aid' situation is akin to closing the stable door after the horse as bolted. If the government were not giving orders that you guys blindly followed most of the so called disaster areas wouldn't exist.

Thats not to say the odd real disaster doesn't happen, but we don't need a military to hand out aid. We are all quite capable of managing things without you lot, once we get rid of the criminals causing all this mess and global destruction.

BTW... you happy about the EU and no referendum then?

[marpat]

No I think we should have the vote on the EU referendum. Is that a shock you you? I don't want to have some unelected Eu president making decisions for us. I don't like the idea of the proposed European army. The fact is that until people have a real chance at making changes then you will just be steamrollered. Do you think if there is some plan for all of this to happen that what people vote will matter, or what they think they know about agendas?

You imply the tsunami was created. Come on man, we live in a world that has been shaped by such things for millions of years. Not everything in the world is an evil conspiracy, and why should it be? there are a lot of good things out there but all people ever go on about in here is how evil the world is.

Like I said before, you can hate me as much as you like. The trouble with forums is you never meet the people you judge so as to make a true character judgement, and at the end of the day I have plenty of good things in my life to counter a bit of hate from people. Now that you have condemned me for my job may I ask what you do for a living?

Does it matter when the illumati were exposed? if the war was created by them then it ws their plan. And how do you know the illuminati has actually been exposed now? you think that what you read in these forums is the absolute facts? how do you know it is not some elaborate smoke screen to keep your attention focussed away from the real plan. I have read DI's books and it just seems that there is too much in the public eye for it to be an exposure of a super secret organisation.

[cruise4]

"you can hate me as much as you like"

I don't hate you in the slightest. I am sorry that you will not educate yourself. Thats all I want, for people to wake up to what is really going on because you are in at least as much danger as the civilian population is, probably more.

And NONE of it is necessary. Its all based on lies and manipulation.

"Does it matter when the illumati were exposed?"

It matters from the point of view you raised when you said...

"It was OK for you family to serve but anybody serving in the modern world is wrong? If the war was started by the illuminati then they fought as part of that agenda, hence they were part of an illumiati controlled war."

"may I ask what you do for a living?"

I just told you in my last post.

"you think that what you read in these forums is the absolute facts? how do you know it is not some elaborate smoke screen to keep your attention focussed away from the real plan."

No, I don't. I check a lot out from various sources and continue to add to the sum of my knowledge. Your second point could be correct but that is also something to be uncovered from further research. I've watched maybe 1000 films and videos, posted 100,s of questions, read hundreds of documents etc.
I am informed to the best of my ability and as time and exposure allows.

"No I think we should have the vote on the EU referendum. Is that a shock you you? I don't want to have some unelected Eu president making decisions for us. I don't like the idea of the proposed European army. The fact is that until people have a real chance at making changes then you will just be steamrollered. Do you think if there is some plan for all of this to happen that what people vote will matter, or what they think they know about agendas?"

No... I thought we'd agree on this. But the question that naturally follows is will you and your colleagues be a part of the European Army that has no mandate from the people of any EU country as far as I can tell. Will you serve as policeforce to civilian operations, because thats what they are planning? At what point will the EU become a traitorous venture to you and as such untenable to be a part of? From my perspective its traitorous already. But yours?

"The fact is that until people have a real chance at making changes then you will just be steamrollered."

Steamrollered by who exactly? That wouldn't be you lot, would it? This is a classic example of how they work these situations. You will be policing Bosnia for example. We'll have the chinese or similar on British streets (EU leads to UN). There's already French Police in Dover with the ability to shoot to kill.
At what point will you refuse orders and protect Britain and its people?

[marpat]

By saying you don't have a job does that mean you receive benefits? you obviously live in a house or flat. Wa that provide by the coucil and do you receive housing beneifts?

Must be nice to have all that time to study stuff. I have a family to support so doing the 'I am going to live on nothing routine just isn't practical'. I have read about soldeirs hooting themselves. Nothin new there happen in every single war, and these are no different. You assume that I have read nothing. I have it's just I don't see everything the way you want me to.

I don't know what the format would be for an EU army. I guess you would probably have to volunteer for it. As I am not a soldier then it is not really such a worry.

Steamrollered by political treachery I meant, doing things behind closed doors, voting scams, etc. You must really think we are a bunch of cunts if you reckon we would turn on our own citizens. Do you not think that people would just mutiny. I believe that if it came to the crunch then a lot of people would mutiny. I suppose you think that service people are a bunch of soul less people with no capacity for independant though, but we are not the soviet union. You may find it odd but individual intiative and creativity are valued, not dumbass slave mind mentality.

[cruise4]

I could claim benefits but then I will have opted in to their system voluntarily, and I refuse to do so. At this moment I can claim for the first time in my life, that I am not a slave. Any work I do is well under the personal allowance level so I pay no tax into their corrupt system. I keep the internet going because that the only way I can learn about whats going on. Otherwise I'd be off phone and electric. But I am single and do understand not everyone is in a postion to do this. They will have to at some point I think, and those not ready will quickly succumb. Its not all fun and games with next to no money I assure you. If there was no corrupt government things would improve drastically, for everyone.

Have you seen Money is Debt or Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception?
Google them and you will realise you are simple traded stock, for the bankers!
There are many more places to confirm what those videos say.

At some point in the near future you will find money becomes completely useless. What are YOU going to do then? Supermarkets are 3 days from having no stock? What will you and your family do when they run out? 70% of your income goes on tax? What do you think you get thats worth it? I see 'nothing at all', in fact the opposite, it pays for shit we don't want. Given your kids vaccinations? You have given them brain damage for life?

[marpat]

I could claim benefits but then I will have opted in to their system voluntarily, and I refuse to do so. At this moment I can claim for the first time in my life, that I am not a slave. Any work I do is well under the personal allowance level so I pay no tax into their corrupt system. I keep the internet going because that the only way I can learn about whats going on. Otherwise I'd be off phone and electric. But I am single and do understand not everyone is in a postion to do this. They will have to at some point I think, and those not ready will quickly succumb. Its not all fun and games with next to no money I assure you. If there was no corrupt government things would improve drastically, for everyone.

Have you seen Money is Debt or Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception?
Google them and you will realise you are simple traded stock, for the bankers!
There are many more places to confirm what those videos say.

At some point in the near future you will find money becomes completely useless. What are YOU going to do then? Supermarkets are 3 days from having no stock? What will you and your family do when they run out? 70% of your income goes on tax? What do you think you get thats worth it? I see 'nothing at all', in fact the opposite, it pays for shit we don't want. Given your kids vaccinations? You have given them brain damage for life?

The fact is even if you grow your own stuff, if people get desperate through hunger they will just take your stuff off you. Self sufficiency is a good thing but if things got desperate then you would find that you will have to defend your own stock. Would you deny police aid if they tried to stop you getting battered for your vegetables? I have ways to get by. I know how to hunt as well so it's a good backup.
The reality is here that I want my family to have a comfortable standard of living, which I am providing. I have no intention of turning them ito Gypsies for some personal crusade.
70% of my income does not go on tax. What does it pay for? how about benefits allowance for people out of work, housing benefits for people, free health care, free denta care, wages for public sector emloyees such as doctors, policeman firemen, free education, incapacity benefits for people who cannot work because of illness, etc. What you get is not perfect but it is better than nothing. For a lot of people these benefits are an absolute lifeline. I have a friend who moved to the Phillipines and he has to pay for his kids' education plus everything else.
This is the government you fight against. They may be doing crap but we are miles ahead of some countries in what we give our citizens, which is why we face a massive immigration problem. Everybody wants a piece of it and it's dragging things down for the people who acutally belong here.

Personally I believe that any future battle will be one in the consciousness of humanity and not one of the outer material world. You may think it's crap but we all have our ideas.

[cruise4]

All those things you suggest are good things, are actually very bad things. This is why until you do some research on how that can be, you are beyond understanding. Even the other countries argument is bogus.

I want no police around me ever. Are you taking all tax into account such as VAT, cigarettes, petrol, fees etc.?

"The reality is here that I want my family to have a comfortable standard of living"

You see I want the whole world to have a decent standard of living.

I would have been impressed if you had written back that you watched those films... but obviously you are committed to knowing nothing bar your programming which runs deep. Yours, and unfortunately probably our, loss.

"Personally I believe that any future battle will be one in the consciousness of humanity"

What a shame you won't be among them. I hope you choose to learn.

[21_12_2012]

I agree totally with what you have posted there Cruise4.

Me too cruise.

[megafish33]

This is an interesting thread! Great debate guys.

marpat, I admire and appreciate your patriotism for your country. The UK(?) is lucky to have people like you.

[marpat]

This is an interesting thread! Great debate guys.

marpat, I admire and appreciate your patriotism for your country. The UK(?) is lucky to have people like you.


Thanks, nice to see I am not on my todd in here. I am in the UK.

Cruise, I think you're wrong about programming. The reality is that you have got absoultely nothing to lose so you can chose to live like that. I have chose the life I lead because I think it's right. You can find material anywhere that will condemn many things but often there is an ulterior motive. Have you always lived like that or did you have a normal life before. When did you decide to start living like that. Must be OK for David Icke to put himself outside of the system as the money he rakes in from books and lectures must be huge. He certainly won't be in a situation like yours.

And why is it wrong for people to get help when they are stuck for cash? why is it wrong for them to get free health care or dental care? maybe they should just starve in the gutter, is that wht your saying. Maybe you could tell somebody whose relatvie has had a life saving operation that they were wrong to receive government help. What would you do if you broke your leg?

How do you know that you have not been mind controlled into believing in these conspiracies? I posted something in another thread in which I outline somebody who has been controlled by conspiracy theories and you actually fit that description, so maybe it's down to point of view. Don't you think it is an attempt at mind control for you to keep insisting that I am programmed but that what you do is the right thing, to try and push me into your way of thinking?

So do you use a TV? you say you won't pay for a license but if you have one then you are basically theiveing. If the TV is programming then why have one at all? it is a matter of personal choice to have one or not so to use one without paying the license fee is wrong.You also have internet access so you are probably paying some horrible, nasty corporation to give you access, and my heavens you rely on electricity from the national grid to power your pc. You must also have a phone line that you pay for, unless you are piggybacking somebody else's wireless connection, which would be theft also. Don't you think that it smack of hypocracy to use these things that are part of the control agenda? It is nice to see you not wanting to pay your council tax but that you can sort yourself out with the things you like. Do you have running water and a toilet? are not these things paid for by council tax? if so then your are stealing. Yes, water may be free in nature but water cleaning and plumbing is not.

I suppose if you go to prison for not paying council tax that it will be a nice holiday for you. All those free governmant meals, a comfy bed, licensed TV, free health care if you get stabbed by an inmate. It will just kill you being looked after at tax payers expense, but don't worry I don't mind my tax being used to possibly rehabilitate you.

I will look into your links when I have got time. Having a normal working day then having a family life is such a crimp on conspiracy theory hunting.

And why do you think I won't be able to battle things out in consciousness for the betterment of humanity? the fact is that I could be doing that right now. What makes you think you will be around. Don't you think you are drawing attention to yourself right now, putting up a flag to say 'I am the enemy of this country'?

I still notice how you take the tiny little snippers that you wish to comment on and remove the actual context in what they are being said. To me this just means you cannot or will not give a complete answer but wish only push a specific view point and use any little piece of information to try and push your own beliefs.

Can I ask you a serious question? I know it is none of my business but have you suffered from any mental illness? I would be very interested to know little bit more about your life to try and understand what exactly brought you to the position you are in now. Although I do criticise what you are saying I can, to a degree, admire what you are trying to do about your beliefs.

[armoured_amazon]

How do you know that you have not been mind controlled into believing in these conspiracies? I posted something in another thread in which I outline somebody who has been controlled by conspiracy theories and you actually fit that description, so maybe it's down to point of view. Don't you think it is an attempt at mind control for you to keep insisting that I am programmed but that what you do is the right thing, to try and push me into your way of thinking?

I concur with this 100%. I am of the belief that some people are controlled into believing one truth which completely hides the Truth from them. And especially so, if this person/these persons have the ability to make great changes. All their energies are directed to the wrong place.

[lost_in_translation]

this is my first post so be gentle.. lol

I was a US Soldier for 6 years {3 may 2000- 16 June 06} and during that time the US government tried their best to break me mentaly but only succeded in opening my eyes to what this world is really about. I served in iraq in 2003 - 2004. It was a dificult time for me. not only seeing death and distruction that most only see in action movies {I had a combat MOS 14s which is a stinger manpad but we deployed as infatrybecause their was no air threat}.. but also seeing the poverty. little children playing in the sewer filled streets. the hopeless looks in their eyes as I gave them my MRE or whatever sweets that I had on me. I wish I could have done more to reassure them but thats the way war is I guess. I got shot at.. I shot back. but inside I couldnt find it in my heart to hate them. they are only caught up in the lies of false religions that has been put into place to divide and conquer mankind..Some of the soldiers I served with are happy to be home.. Some are happy to go back. I well .. that place made me hollow. Im real sensitive to my surroundings and what we are doing there has left a lasting impresson on me. One that wont fade no matter how much I drank or how much weed I smoked. I reciently read one of David Icke's books and it was like opening my eyes for the first time. People around me are what I like to call asleep. walking around fine with the way things are. including my wife. and thats fine.I look at those people and wish I could find the happiness that they seem to have.but its just like in real life when you try to wake somone up who is content with being asleep they get angry. I know I dont have all the answers if I did I know I would not be like some of these people on the internet who promise you the world and promise to make it better. but for a fee.. I just wanted to point out the fact that not all soldiers are mindless drowns. who just do what they are told. Some of us have awakened. Im now living in Germany with my wife and daughter . the US Army wanted me to go back and I refused. i didnt recive orders but they wanted me to get a physical and I know thats step one. I served 6 years and I still had 2 years on my obligation to the US Army where I am in the IRR {Individual ready reserve} which has reciently changed to the IW { Individual warrior} program . Its called the war on terror.. but the only thing war brings is terror.. Im not a conspiracy theory nut. I just look at evidence and come to my own conclusion. I know some of the evidence is tainted on both side of the line. I am neither on the right or left side I walk alone down the middle of this mess. I know my spelling isnt the best so you dont have to point that out lol.. Its nice to talk to people that are awake such as I am..

Its time for people to open their minds, think for themselvs and not follow the croud. regaurdless of which side of the line you are on. do what makes you happy but dont down the next man.

[armoured_amazon]

this is my first post so be gentle lol

I was a US Soldier for 6 years {3 may 2000- 16 June 06} and during that time the US government tried their best to break me mentaly but only succeded in opening my eyes to what this world is really about. I served in iraq in 2003 - 2004. It was a dificult time for me. not only seeing death and distruction that most only see in action movies. but also seeing the poverty. little children playing in the sewer filled streets. the hopeless looks in their eyes as I gave them my MRE or whatever sweets that I had on me. I wish I could have done more to reassure them but thats the way war is I guess. I got shot at.. I shot back. but inside I couldnt find it in my heart to hate them. they are only caught up in the lies of false religions that has been put into place to divide and conquer mankind..Some of the soldiers I served with are happy to be home.. Some are happy to go back. I well .. that place made me hollow. Im real sensitive to my surroundings and what we are doing there has left a lasting impresson on me. One that wont fade no matter how much I drank or how much weed I smoked. I reciently read one of David Icke's books and it was like opening my eyes for the first time. People around me are what I like to call asleep. walking around fine with the way things are. including my wife. and its just like in real life when you try to wake somone up who is content with being asleep they get angry. I know I dont have all the answers if I did I know I would not be like some of these people on the internet who promise you the world and promise to make it better. but for a fee.. I just wanted to point out the fact that not all soldiers are mindless drowns. who just do what they are told. Some of us have awakened. Im now living in Germany with my wife and daughter . the US Army wanted me to go back and I refused. i didnt recive orders but they wanted me to get a physical and I know thats step one. I served 6 years and I still had 2 years on my obligation to the US Army where I am in the IRR {Individual ready reserve} which has reciently changed to the IW { Individual warrior} program . Its called the war on terror.. but the only thing war brings is terror.. I know my spelling isnt the best so you dont have to point that out lol.. Its nice to talk to people that are awake such as I am

Welcome and God bless. :)

[megafish33]

this is my first post so be gentle lol

I was a US Soldier... I got shot at.. I shot back. ...but inside I couldnt find it in my heart to hate them. they are only caught up in the lies of false religions that has been put into place to divide and conquer mankind..

Welcome, I'm sorry for your horrible experience. I'm glad if your personal enlightenment has made you a happier person. Sometimes we need that life changing event-even if it's from reading a profound book... it's like breathing and tasting fresh crisp air despite thick smoke all around you. :)

[lost_in_translation]

your welcome.. bless you too

[lost_in_translation]

We all have choices in life to make. I made mine. I always wanted to be a soldier to help people. or atleast thats the image that I recieved when I was child of what being a soldier was like. we learn and grow. and as far as happiness. I havnt made it far enough to be happy yet. im hollow, sad, but that will pass when I find my purpose i guess. or atleast thats what i tell myself. lol

" I have had better days, but I have also hade worse ones." when you put it into perspective it makes today a little better

[marpat]

Cruise, in addition to all I said in post #102 why do you actually live in a house in a town anyway? and why do you work for currency that you believe is bad and immoral? what you should do is buy a tent, some basic camping gear, fishing gear, etc and go and live in a forrest or out in the wilds somewhere. There are no laws out there to tell you what to do, no worries about council tax and TV licenses, no microchipping, etc. just the laws of nature and survival of the fittest. It would be perfect for you. You could maybe find a coverage blackspot so that you chances of being controlled by radio waves are almost nothing.

Yet you choose to live in a house in a town but refuse to accept the social responsibility and obligation that goes with the life you have chosen. I'm sorry but as I think I am just not buying what you are selling.

You also state in an earlier post you almost live on charity. To me that would imply that you have put yourself in such a position that you are having to depend on the help of others to get by. While you are running around like the caped moral crusader you are actually making yourself a burden to other people. If you are not getting charity then why say you are? are your benefactors working and paying taxes also?

You say that since about day 3 of learning about this stuff you have been actively sending out flyers, etc. Well to me this would suggest you just got a whif of things then agreed they were right. That short space of time is far too little to actually take everything in, look at it objectively, then form a reasonable conclusion on the material. I might have actually took you seriously if you had said your opinions were formed after years of research and investigation but to say that you had read a couple of days worth of material then bought into it completely means that you have looked at nothing. If your mind just soaked it straight up and then you went off campaigning then it suggests to me that you are susceptible to the power of suggestion and base your actions on emotion rather than understanding and logic. Thanks for the moral lesson but I think I am happy where I am. I would also suggest that the emotion you are most responsive to is fear, fear of everything around you.

Maybe if paying my taxes to support unemployed families is wrong then giving regular money to the NSPCC is wrong. Do you think I should give that up?

[paganus]

i dont think,personnaly,that being/having been a soldier is any bar to spirituality.anyone read 'men who stare at goats'?

[mr_pixie]

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty.

Your gonna get a lot of this, people dont relise whats been happening in Iraq & Afganhistain, the soldiers have killed there own spiritalerty by allowing themself to be porns in war and cannon fodder.

These are people sick.

[marpat]

Your gonna get a lot of this, people dont relise whats been happening in Iraq & Afganhistain, the soldiers have killed there own spiritalerty by allowing themself to be porns in war and cannon fodder.

These are people sick.

And you don't feel that the people trying to kill them are doing any wrong? the same people killing troops also blow up pilgrims and civilians but you probably feel this is propoganda. How about the bad guys who video themselves cutting peoples heads off, don't you feel that they are the really sick ones? soldier are given orders that have to be carried out within legal guidelines unlike the people they are fighting. You probably feel sympathy for the poor freedom fighters who murder hostages on video. The blame for any action in any country lies with the goverment not the soldiers. It is the government who send them there, a democratically elected government as well. There are many instance of soldiers wounding their attackers then getting them medical attention and actually saving their lives, but people like you don't want to hear stuff like that do you. I am getting really bored with people like you, who feel they know what is going on in these war zones without actually going there, who pin the blame on service personel who are legally carrying out their orders rather than the politicians who send them there. I don't even know why I am explaining this as you will think that you know best.

I think you mean pawn. Porn is the stuff you have been getting blinded with on the internet.

This thread really should be closed. One person met one arrogant, bigotted soldier who was blowing his own trumpet, so what!!! the truth is that the soldier was probably suffering emotionally inside and was trying to just put a tough mask on. Don't you think his mind may have been distorted by what he has seen and that perhaps he was actually close to having a breakdown? for all you people may know he might find himself in tears when alone, praying not to go back and to stay alive when he is there. I have never come across anybody like that described above, and I believe the whole point of putting it onto this thread was to condition peoples already paranoid idea of soldiers to make them sound like soulless murderers. And what is the response? a bunch of people start drifting through all spiritually aloof, saying how evil soldiers are, patting each other on the back and saying they are right. Perhaps you wankers ought to try and meet a few soilders and ask them what they really think of those places and I tell you now it will not be the bullshit that is written at the start of the thread.

[cruise4]

Great post there lost_in_translation. Thats what I've heard over and over.

Marpat I cannot research for you. Every thing you wrote in those last two posts is wrong, but I no longer await you researching the facts with any expectation of it happening. So its pointless for me to continue and you could be just trying to get me to waste my time. I'm unsure which it is.

[marpat]

Great post there lost_in_translation. Thats what I've heard over and over.

Marpat I cannot research for you. Every thing you wrote in those last two posts is wrong, but I no longer await you researching the facts with any expectation of it happening. So its pointless for me to continue and you could be just trying to get me to waste my time. I'm unsure which it is.

I don't want you to research anything for me. Did I ask you to research anything for me? the fact is I have my own mind and can decide if I think something is right. You have just sucked everything up and believed it all, and than think that makes you smart, as is proved by your posts. All you want is for people to read the same stuff as you do, agree with it then tell you how smart you are. This is what you need to justify your pathetic, scrounging existence, a life with no direction. I guess it is not your fault really, you probably grew up in an environment of neglect and feel that this is making up for it. You want to feel superior to people like myself so you try and make it sound like you have some sort of moral ascendency but you don't because you take from the society that you despise without putting anything back in, like you said you live from charity. There is a word for such things, they are called parasites.

Like I have said many times, you never give straight answer unless you can find a web site that does all the talking for you. If all you can do to my posts is to give crappy little one-liners or web links then just don't repsond. You seem perfectly ignorant that people have actually go their own minds and ideas. Some people can actually appreciate this but you cannot. And there is so much bullshit you subscribe to that is just pure speculation based loosely on technological capability.

How was that stuff wrong that I wrote before? I was just probing you about things you had said about yourself so how can it be wrong? the problem is that the answers to my posts are not things that you want to have to deal with, you robot.
Your just a garden variety conspiracy theorist, suffering from paranoia and anxiety, probably suffering from mental health problems. I bet you fit the format very well, single, unable to find romantic attachment, mis-understood, etc. I posted a description of a mind controlled conspiracy theorist in another posts and you, as well as a number of other people, have proved that it is a workable formula.

[hagbard_celine]

I take it you mean 'small minority' ! :D

Have you got a link to this poll, HC? :confused:

No, I mean a majority; about 60% or so. No link; check out the headlines archives.

It's the biggest irony I can think of that the US Marine Corps is synonymous with courage and bravery. Americans even have catchphrases like "so brave he should be a Marine." But if they're willing to murder (fellow) innocent civilians, (and hospital porters too) or keep shtum when they see someone doing it, then they are showing the ultimate in cowardice and weakness.

[danster82]

Not all soldiers are like this, like an article from a solider said "and you always get the ones who are just there because they want to know what its like to kill a person legally". But it has to be said any soilder is brainwashed or they are willfully ignorant now being willfully ignorant is similar to being Evil because you know your wrong you know the real cause of the war and yet you still want to kill. but i do beleive a large portion of simply innocently ignorant to the facts.

[marpat]

Not all soldiers are like this, like an article from a solider said "and you always get the ones who are just there because they want to know what its like to kill a person legally". But it has to be said any soilder is brainwashed or they are willfully ignorant now being willfully ignorant is similar to being Evil because you know your wrong you know the real cause of the war and yet you still want to kill. but i do beleive a large portion of simply innocently ignorant to the facts.


I don't know if any of you have seen the videos of US troops being shot by snipers that are on the internet. They is one where a US soldier gets hit but survives due to his armour. His group then fire back and wound the attacker. What happens then is they give the sniper medical aid and save his life. What does this tell you? if they save the life of somebody who has just fired at one of their patrol then they cannot all be mindless brainwashed robots. It seems to be the fashionable thing in here to treat all military people are mindless drones but cases like this prove that those awful, disgusting accusations are not altogether true. And what does it tell you about the people who are willing to make such a blanket judgements, feeling themselves to be mentally unconditioned and enlightened? it tells you that they just want to see the evil side of things because anything that proves otherwise is an attack on their dark and fearful world view. To have to confront such things means that their world view is not altogether faultless. They may also have to deal with the idea that they have been programmed to see only the nasty side of things and to suggest they have been conditioned in any way is an insult and a blashphemy to some people.

[hagbard_celine]

I don't know if any of you have seen the videos of US troops being shot by snipers that are on the internet. They is one where a US soldier gets hit but survives due to his armour. His group then fire back and wound the attacker. What happens then is they give the sniper medical aid and save his life. What does this tell you? if they save the life of somebody who has just fired at one of their patrol then they cannot all be mindless brainwashed robots. It seems to be the fashionable thing in here to treat all military people are mindless drones but cases like this prove that those awful, disgusting accusations are not altogether true. And what does it tell you about the people who are willing to make such a blanket judgements, feeling themselves to be mentally unconditioned and enlightened? it tells you that they just want to see the evil side of things because anything that proves otherwise is an attack on their dark and fearful world view. To have to confront such things means that their world view is not altogether faultless. They may also have to deal with the idea that they have been programmed to see only the nasty side of things and to suggest they have been conditioned in any way is an insult and a blashphemy to some people.

To do such a thing is brave, but I've heard of people who've never been in the military take bullets or knives to save another person; they climb drainpipes to get someone out of a burning building and walk through a pool of petrol near a fire to save a cat. You don't have to be a solider to be brave. Some soldiers might be brave but if they are then it's not because they are soldiers.

[marpat]

To do such a thing is brave, but I've heard of people who've never been in the military take bullets or knives to save another person; they climb drainpipes to get someone out of a burning building and walk through a pool of petrol near a fire to save a cat. You don't have to be a solider to be brave. Some soldiers might be brave but if they are then it's not because they are soldiers.


Superbly put. As I have been saying all along, the uniform does not make anybody some criminal killing machine, a view that certain individual seem to be pushing. Good and evil are the qualities of people not qualities of the uniform.

[lost_in_translation]

I am really liking all of these opionions. its nice to be around open minded people. I can speak for myself and alot of other soldiers when I say that it doesnt matter what anyone thinks about us.Even though im no longer a soldier I still feel the pain of my friends still in and serving. As I posted earlier I have been there and done that. you see, when people only look for negative things then that is what they will see.if you only look for the bad in people then thats what you will find.If somone wants to see the world as a messed up place then thats what it will be. I was in Iraq from April 2003 to March 2004 and I witnessed some messed up things.some things i didnt agree with and some things I had no control over. but I also witnessed some of the most compassionate things I have ever seen as well. passing out paper to schools. food to the hungry. i know nothing special right. but for somone to have the nerve to go into harms way to help people . it doesnt matter what their job is. that person is special. when I was there it wasnt about finding saddam, weapons of mass destruction, protests, i never killed a baby. i have seen some murdered, killed by car bombs, sniper fire. I dont hate the people I was fighting.I was there for my friends to my left and right. thats all. when people describe actions of one person in uniform and say the military is messed up. its like saying all americans are messed up because they dont like Bush. im not here to put anyone down . and i really like all the posts. keep it up everyone. but try to stay positive. there is toooo much negative energy in this world. I feel it everyday.

"I have had better days, But ive also had worse days" when you put it into perspective then it makes it a little better.

[marpat]

I am really liking all of these opionions. its nice to be around open minded people. I can speak for myself and alot of other soldiers when I say that it doesnt matter what anyone thinks about us.Even though im no longer a soldier I still feel the pain of my friends still in and serving. As I posted earlier I have been there and done that. you see, when people only look for negative things then that is what they will see.if you only look for the bad in people then thats what you will find.If somone wants to see the world as a messed up place then thats what it will be. I was in Iraq from April 2003 to March 2004 and I witnessed some messed up things.some things i didnt agree with and some things I had no control over. but I also witnessed some of the most compassionate things I have ever seen as well. passing out paper to schools. food to the hungry. i know nothing special right. but for somone to have the nerve to go into harms way to help people . it doesnt matter what their job is. that person is special. when I was there it wasnt about finding saddam, weapons of mass destruction, protests, i never killed a baby. i have seen some murdered, killed by car bombs, sniper fire. I dont hate the people I was fighting.I was there for my friends to my left and right. thats all. when people describe actions of one person in uniform and say the military is messed up. its like saying all americans are messed up because they dont like Bush. im not here to put anyone down . and i really like all the posts. keep it up everyone. but try to stay positive. there is toooo much negative energy in this world. I feel it everyday.

"I have had better days, But ive also had worse days" when you put it into perspective then it makes it a little better.

The trouble I have come across in here is that soon as you say your military your branded. I am a military electronics technician and the only time I would need to fire a weapon is if I was attacked or if somebody near me was in life threatening danger, yet I have been accused of being a robot, illuminati stooge, trained murderer, etc. I did find it annoying before but now I find it just boring. The only place I have been overseas is the South Atlantic so I have hardly been able to murder anybody yet. I did get the chance to see penguins and seals and sea lions in their natural habitat though.

[megafish33]

"I have had better days, But ive also had worse days" when you put it into perspective then it makes it a little better.

It's a numbers game-keep getting more of those better days. :)

I thank you for what you've done, for better or worse, and believe it or not-even though you're not working with a gun right now you are still serving your country and the world. Your previous efforts and the self-reflection you've shared with us is all appreciated LiT. :cool:

[hagbard_celine]

The trouble I have come across in here is that soon as you say your military your branded. I am a military electronics technician and the only time I would need to fire a weapon is if I was attacked or if somebody near me was in life threatening danger, yet I have been accused of being a robot, illuminati stooge, trained murderer, etc. I did find it annoying before but now I find it just boring. The only place I have been overseas is the South Atlantic so I have hardly been able to murder anybody yet. I did get the chance to see penguins and seals and sea lions in their natural habitat though.

I'd like to see that!:) I love sea life, but hate seeing them at zoos or in cages.

I'm not one of the ones who'd accuse any individual person of being a robot, Illuminati stooge, murderer etc. I think nearly everyone would kill someone on a one-to-one basis if it was necessary to defend themselves, their family or community; I would. You may be in a unit or role in the foces that means you'll never be in a positon to do otherwise. In a way I'm not too differernt. I serve in the NHS which means I'm also a government employee.

But some people with the same empoyers as you and me have. It's a fact. The people of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Coventry, Vietnam, Sand Creek... the list goes on, were murdered in vast numbers and sadistically by Western governments. These govts only managed to get away with that because their employees obeyed their orders above their moral concerns, or belived the propaganda that waylaied those concerns.

Not all of them did though. Some mutinied and refused. In the end we're all accountable for our own actions. I think if you weren't one of those who'd refuse then you wouldn't be on this forum.;)

[marpat]

I'd like to see that!:) I love sea life, but hate seeing them at zoos or in cages.

I'm not one of the ones who'd accuse any individual person of being a robot, Illuminati stooge, murderer etc. I think nearly everyone would kill someone on a one-to-one basis if it was necessary to defend themselves, their family or community; I would. You may be in a unit or role in the foces that means you'll never be in a positon to do otherwise. In a way I'm not too differernt. I serve in the NHS which means I'm also a government employee.

But some people with the same empoyers as you and me have. It's a fact. The people of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Coventry, Vietnam, Sand Creek... the list goes on, were murdered in vast numbers and sadistically by Western governments. These govts only managed to get away with that because their employees obeyed their orders above their moral concerns, or belived the propaganda that waylaied those concerns.

Not all of them did though. Some mutinied and refused. In the end we're all accountable for our own actions. I think if you weren't one of those who'd refuse then you wouldn't be on this forum.;)

Thanks Hagbard. You seem to be one on the more enlightened people I have come across in here.
We are always taught that should you be given an order which is illegal, say killing an unarmed person, then we are not to carry it out. I think there seems to be a lot of people brainwashed into thinking we would do it without question but if somebody carries out such an order they go to jail for a long time. The fact in modern war is that the soldiers are often so bogged down by legal restraint that they often get into very difficult situations and have split seconds to make life or death decisions which, if wrong, could easily see an innocent person killed and the soldier being jailed and give a discharge, or the soldier not reacting quickly enough and him and maybe his colleagues being killed. I think that a lot of the problem now is that the enemy is dressed just like and innocent person.

I shoud refrain from mentioning soldiers as it gives the impression I am one. My colour is light blue!!!

[lost_in_translation]

The trouble I have come across in here is that soon as you say your military your branded. I am a military electronics technician and the only time I would need to fire a weapon is if I was attacked or if somebody near me was in life threatening danger, yet I have been accused of being a robot, illuminati stooge, trained murderer, etc. I did find it annoying before but now I find it just boring. The only place I have been overseas is the South Atlantic so I have hardly been able to murder anybody yet. I did get the chance to see penguins and seals and sea lions in their natural habitat though.



I understand. I got out of the army in 2006 and im now living in Germany where i seperated from service with my wife and daughter. I get the "looks" to when I mention that I was once a soldier.It was my job to shoot but I didnt enjoy it. I think the problem with some people is that they are to busy with going to diff websites and being brainwashed by the same types of people that are trying to"Brainwash " us. you see I live by the saying " believe none of what you see and half of what you hear" I will never post a link to another site. I make my own conclusions on what this life has to offer and what not. I am not downing anyone, David Icke's thoughts and theories on this world are an eye opener and he is one of the reasons that I now search for the truth, but I dont just take his word for it . part of the manipulation is the fact that people these days dont think for themselvs. they just listen to others and quote what the "experts" are saying. I not putting down anyone. these people" experts" have spent considerable amounts of time on collecting evidence to prove their theories. but at the same time I have come to realize that when somone wants somthing to be a certin way, then they only focus on that conclusion and any evidence that points that way. so its a good Idea to come at this with an open mind. and come to your own conclusions. yes I understand that western style democratic governments are manipulating the rest of the world.and it is wrong. But to say all soldiers and airmen and navy are brainwashed stooges is just ingnorant.

[lost_in_translation]

It's a numbers game-keep getting more of those better days. :)

I thank you for what you've done, for better or worse, and believe it or not-even though you're not working with a gun right now you are still serving your country and the world. Your previous efforts and the self-reflection you've shared with us is all appreciated LiT. :cool:


Your welcome.
Im not here to serve my country now. Im just trying to reach out to free thinking people and engage in good conversation. to serve somthing that manipulates and lies is to sell my "soul"

free your mind and your butt will follow

It is a numbers game. gotta take the good with the bad and run with it all . its like searching for the truth. Everyday is another mystery that unfolds . I just hope I make sence of all this nonsence before its time to make whatever trip Im going to make after this life. Whenever I figure out whats going on Ill let yall know and I wont charge you a dime for the information.. lol..




"I have had better days, But I have also had worse days" when you put it into perspective then it makes it a little better.

[marpat]

I understand. I got out of the army in 2006 and im now living in Germany where i seperated from service with my wife and daughter. I get the "looks" to when I mention that I was once a soldier.It was my job to shoot but I didnt enjoy it. I think the problem with some people is that they are to busy with going to diff websites and being brainwashed by the same types of people that are trying to"Brainwash " us. you see I live by the saying " believe none of what you see and half of what you hear" I will never post a link to another site. I make my own conclusions on what this life has to offer and what not. I am not downing anyone, David Icke's thoughts and theories on this world are an eye opener and he is one of the reasons that I now search for the truth, but I dont just take his word for it . part of the manipulation is the fact that people these days dont think for themselvs. they just listen to others and quote what the "experts" are saying. I not putting down anyone. these people" experts" have spent considerable amounts of time on collecting evidence to prove their theories. but at the same time I have come to realize that when somone wants somthing to be a certin way, then they only focus on that conclusion and any evidence that points that way. so its a good Idea to come at this with an open mind. and come to your own conclusions. yes I understand that western style democratic governments are manipulating the rest of the world.and it is wrong. But to say all soldiers and airmen and navy are brainwashed stooges is just ingnorant.


I think you have chosen a wise way to proceed

[hagbard_celine]

Your welcome.
Im not here to serve my country now. Im just trying to reach out to free thinking people and engage in good conversation. to serve somthing that manipulates and lies is to sell my "soul"

free your mind and your butt will follow

It is a numbers game. gotta take the good with the bad and run with it all . its like searching for the truth. Everyday is another mystery that unfolds . I just hope I make sence of all this nonsence before its time to make whatever trip Im going to make after this life. Whenever I figure out whats going on Ill let yall know and I wont charge you a dime for the information.. lol..




"I have had better days, But I have also had worse days" when you put it into perspective then it makes it a little better.

In fact I've been thinking about it and I'm not in a position of being free of the beam in my own eye! It's not only in wars that the Illuminati murder people. They murder them in hospitals too through the sickness industry engineered by Big Pharma. Well, as a a member of the hospital portering service I'm a part of that:(:o however much I try to deny it. There's blood on my hands.

[lost_in_translation]

In fact I've been thinking about it and I'm not in a position of being free of the beam in my own eye! It's not only in wars that the Illuminati murder people. They murder them in hospitals too through the sickness industry engineered by Big Pharma. Well, as a a member of the hospital portering service I'm a part of that:(:o however much I try to deny it. There's blood on my hands.

Thats part of life though. we are all part of the machine. doesnt matter what our job is. its not your fault . the system is designed to pull us into the web of lies and deception. but atleast you can see it now.

[joyful]

I understand. I got out of the army in 2006 and im now living in Germany where i seperated from service with my wife and daughter. I get the "looks" to when I mention that I was once a soldier.It was my job to shoot but I didnt enjoy it.

It depends who you shoot. If Britain declared war on Israel I would sign up tomorrow. I love guns and survival and all that. It's fighting wars for Israel after they have staged false-flag "muslim" terror attacks on us that I object to.

[lost_in_translation]

If Britain declared war on Israel I would sign up tommorow. I love guns and survival and all that. It's fighting wars for Israel after they have staged "muslim" terror attacks on us that I object to.

I believe that fighting get us no where. it took me a long time to realize that. israel is just following the way of the world as history is written. most of them dont realize they are pawns for a bigger picture. in order for us all to wake up . we need to come together. the divisions in mankind have been brought apon by a chosen few who control everything from white and black, religion, finacial status, language. if we were to sit down with the enemy we would find we have alot more in common than we think and make an end to these divisions because they are whats keeping us down. its on us now

[grenadene]

I It's like talking to a rolled up News of the World,

This line has made me laugh all evening :D:D:D

[jamesca]

I agree and disagree with many of these posts (obviously but to varying degrees on either side) and it's nice to hear that not everyone believes that all soldiers are mindless killing machines. Granted I know that is how they're trained because I am one. However if you have an open mind you can still obtain the training needed while keeping your human dignity entirely intact.
Now I won't deny that some soldiers are gung ho assholes who love the fact that they get to carry a gun and tell people how hardcore they are cause they're in the army.
Many, and the majority really are good men. They have families friends and good attitudes towards their work. Also in my country soldiering is quite well paid and some do it because it's their best option for employment. So to those who have nothing but bad things to say, tell some of my friends that they should be flipping burgers or pumping gas because all soldiers are evil murderers.
I realize that you don't have to be a soldier to be brave. Someone here gave an example of walking through a pool of gas to save a cat from a fire, and climbing up a drain pipe to rescue a baby from a burninb building etc. These examples which do happen are extrodinary examples of bravery and those performing such acts may very well be civillian. The difference in a soldiers bravery (if he is fighting for his brothers, and for a brighter future for whoever he can at the time) is that a soldier doesn't "happen" upon the chance to do these brave things then act accordingly. NO. He willingly goes to the shittiest fucking places on the planet knowing that it is hell he will se first hand, and many not all but many, will get through their tours I'm sure of it, by knowing that they have made a difference. Even if it is a fleeting glipse of hope caught in the eyes of a child as they are for the first time in their lives allowed to attend school for example.
It's no secret that there is good and evil in the world...It's the nature of the plane we live on. Believe me I love th idea of spiritual ascension and hope and believe that one day we may all reach this pinnacle of human evolution...But there will always be evil in some form or another and for every person who becomes enlightened, one will become jealous of enlightenment and hate us for what we are, it's the unfortunate duality of this terribly beautiful place.
So until perfection manifests itself all about us, get used to the fact that one day soldiers, GOOD soldiers may have to fight for the enlightened, because the dim are so, so many.

[hagbard_celine]

I agree and disagree with many of these posts (obviously but to varying degrees on either side) and it's nice to hear that not everyone believes that all soldiers are mindless killing machines. Granted I know that is how they're trained because I am one. However if you have an open mind you can still obtain the training needed while keeping your human dignity entirely intact.
Now I won't deny that some soldiers are gung ho assholes who love the fact that they get to carry a gun and tell people how hardcore they are cause they're in the army.
Many, and the majority really are good men. They have families friends and good attitudes towards their work. Also in my country soldiering is quite well paid and some do it because it's their best option for employment. So to those who have nothing but bad things to say, tell some of my friends that they should be flipping burgers or pumping gas because all soldiers are evil murderers.
I realize that you don't have to be a soldier to be brave. Someone here gave an example of walking through a pool of gas to save a cat from a fire, and climbing up a drain pipe to rescue a baby from a burninb building etc. These examples which do happen are extrodinary examples of bravery and those performing such acts may very well be civillian. The difference in a soldiers bravery (if he is fighting for his brothers, and for a brighter future for whoever he can at the time) is that a soldier doesn't "happen" upon the chance to do these brave things then act accordingly. NO. He willingly goes to the shittiest fucking places on the planet knowing that it is hell he will se first hand, and many not all but many, will get through their tours I'm sure of it, by knowing that they have made a difference. Even if it is a fleeting glipse of hope caught in the eyes of a child as they are for the first time in their lives allowed to attend school for example.
It's no secret that there is good and evil in the world...It's the nature of the plane we live on. Believe me I love th idea of spiritual ascension and hope and believe that one day we may all reach this pinnacle of human evolution...But there will always be evil in some form or another and for every person who becomes enlightened, one will become jealous of enlightenment and hate us for what we are, it's the unfortunate duality of this terribly beautiful place.
So until perfection manifests itself all about us, get used to the fact that one day soldiers, GOOD soldiers may have to fight for the enlightened, because the dim are so, so many.

Yes, there's nothing wrong with fighting in certain circumstances. It's when we're made to fight for the gain of government elites at the expense of the rest of us that it's wrong.

I've always said that creating an entirely peaceful world is possible, but it is not easy and will take a long time. Until we've succeeded there it may well be necessary to arm ourselves to defend our familes and communities. This is an entirely different thing to invading a country and bombing people to take over its oil wells etc.

I know there are lots of good guys in the army. A lot of them have mutinied when they've been ordered to commit atrocities. My uncle used to be in the army and he's a very kind and genial guy.

[hagbard_celine]

I realize that you don't have to be a soldier to be brave. Someone here gave an example of walking through a pool of gas to save a cat from a fire, and climbing up a drain pipe to rescue a baby from a burninb building etc. These examples which do happen are extrodinary examples of bravery and those performing such acts may very well be civillian. The difference in a soldiers bravery (if he is fighting for his brothers, and for a brighter future for whoever he can at the time) is that a soldier doesn't "happen" upon the chance to do these brave things then act accordingly. NO. He willingly goes to the shittiest fucking places on the planet knowing that it is hell he will se first hand,

I'm sure it's no picnic when you go onto a battlefield, but bear in mind that many so-called "civilians" have to go into some pretty shitty hell-holes too. A deep sea fisheman has a very dangerous job, statistically the most dangerous of all, but gets none of the prestige and glamour that the media bestows on the military. No "Our brave boys who risk their lives to give us our fish fingers!". Some kinds of mining are very hazardous too, even in this day and age.

And there are many people out there with low-status jobs who, because of convention, do not get the recognition they deserve. It takes a lot of guts to do that for your whole life and stand up to the scorn of convention every day. People who work in hospitals, who are not doctors or nurses, and have to deal with horrendous events and are brow-beaten by convention continuously every moment.

[adimon]

This is not indicative of all soldiers.

Absolutely. This is the most important point for those anti-military people of the forum to realise.

I have actually been debating on going back into the service. Even understanding what is going on in this world. I would not be going in for the 'thrill or glory' of battle, or to win medals to pin on my chest. I'd be going in for the purpose of protecting the innocents who are so frequently victimized, such as the one village in Afghanistan, that the Taliban went into and beheaded every single man, young and old. It was our Canadian men and women who went in there to find that horror. Sometimes all you can do is to stand up and fight the violence for pleasure seeking psychopaths, and no amount of infinite love can dissuade people like that from their acts of horror.

Yes, another great point. If anyone REALLY thinks that the Islamofascist elements of the world would stop if we left and treat the civilian populations of their native countries nicely, I'd REALLY like to know why they think that? The track record of Islamism is one of repression and regression.

Just for a bit of light relief...

When I was young and naive I applied for Officer training and had to go on the pre-sandhurst testing course. It was all going fine and we were up on the Assault Course where we arrived at the Fireman type pole... quite high. The bloke in front of me got his turn... great big fat guy, he grabbed the pole... and fell down the whole thing and broke both his legs.

That was that.

Ouch!

I suppose the bottom line is we need to stop soldiering and policing, as its being practised, and has been practised. So exmicrochipmafia have you any suggestions on how to go about that in an objective way... and why your nick?

Stopping policing would mean that the 10% whom someone referred to earlier in the thread would have a free license to do as they pleased. Do you think vigilantism is a good idea Cruise4?

I pray I never see a military man because if I do I will recognise an enemy first until proved otherwise.

You are ignorant slave followers of propoganda. Wake up! Stop working for criminals and expecting some sympathy. You work for the people and they are being shafted left right and centre and you do nothing but go on further killing sprees based on lies and manipulation.

Your first sentence above shows me that you are no less capable of divisiveness than that which you perceive. Your second paragraph IS propaganda.

It depends who you shoot. If Britain declared war on Israel I would sign up tomorrow. I love guns and survival and all that. It's fighting wars for Israel after they have staged false-flag "muslim" terror attacks on us that I object to.

Madness. Are you saying you actually have the desire to kill Israelis because of the alleged actions of their governments? :confused: :(

[peachped]

I'd also like to expand on the one soldier's actions and behaviors. This is not indicative of all soldiers. Nobody knows what horrors this young man has seen over there, except himself and his buddies. Nobody knows what this young man's childhood was like nor what his youth was like. You have no idea what may have caused this fellow to turn out this way. Many who would be labelled as psychos because they find 'family' or 'acceptance' in the military have never known family or friendship, or come from broken or otherwise abusive backgrounds, and an army life gives them focus and purpose and a sense of belonging, albeit misguided as you are inevitably the pawn of greather powers that be.
Many join because they come from such destitute upbringings that the paychecque is a varitable fortune compared to the standards they're used to.
Others join because they witness the events of the world and believe all they are told through the controlled media, and have hearts of gold, and wish to make the world a better place.
Yes there is a 'breaking down phase' in basic training. This is to get the new soldier used to thinking of his buddies and of other people before themselves, and to think of the team, or unit. In a fight, if one soldier freezes up, he/she jeopardises the lives of everybody else out there. Back in my day, I trusted all members of my section and platoon implicitly with my life as they trusted in me. That's what that's all about ladies and gentlemen.
Comments like I have been reading here are dangerously close to the Vietnam era where people would throw bags of dog feces at soldiers returning from the war. Instead, why not walk up to them, shake their hand, and say something like, "I'm sorry you had to undergo such hell out there, but thank you just the same."
Is this what enlightenment is all about? Should you not be offering to give that soldier a hug or shake his hand or give him unconditional love?
I have actually been debating on going back into the service. Even understanding what is going on in this world. I would not be going in for the 'thrill or glory' of battle, or to win medals to pin on my chest. I'd be going in for the purpose of protecting the innocents who are so frequently victimized, such as the one village in Afghanistan, that the Taliban went into and beheaded every single man, young and old. It was our Canadian men and women who went in there to find that horror. Sometimes all you can do is to stand up and fight the violence for pleasure seeking psychopaths, and no amount of infinite love can dissuade people like that from their acts of horror.


"I'm sorry you had to undergo such hell out there, but thank you just the same."

Lol . You are completely brainwashed. "Protecting the innocents" my arse.

You are just a tool of the elite.

Have you one good reason why British, American, or Canadian Soldiers should be fighting in Afghanistan or Vietnam?

[adimon]

Have you one good reason why British, American, or Canadian Soldiers should be fighting in Afghanistan

To protect the rights of women who have suffered ritual abuse every day for their whole lives, who are less than slaves, have their genitals mutilated and their 'lives' made into property?

You asked for ONE. I'm not simplifying the situation, but I was just answering your question. :)

[steevo]

To protect the rights of women who have suffered ritual abuse every day for their whole lives, who are less than slaves, have their genitals mutilated and their 'lives' made into property?

You asked for ONE. I'm not simplifying the situation, but I was just answering your question. :)

But we kill loads of innocent kids and women in the process :confused:
How is that helping eh ?

Edit : Just to make it clear, I dont agree that we have invaded those countries for the reasons that Adimon says. He appears to be in denial.

[peachped]

To protect the rights of women who have suffered ritual abuse every day for their whole lives, who are less than slaves, have their genitals mutilated and their 'lives' made into property?

You asked for ONE. I'm not simplifying the situation, but I was just answering your question. :)


Do you honestly believe that the British army is in Afghanistan ~ "To protect the rights of women who have suffered ritual abuse every day for their whole lives, who are less than slaves, have their genitals mutilated and their 'lives' made into property?"

[diamond dogs]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views. ..


Sounds like your friend needs educating as well before she brings him back to yours.

I used to live in a relatively small town and in the space of two years, there were two murders both committed by ex squaddies.

One had his throat cut in a pub after an argument (his next door neighbour) about loud music being played. I used to know the guy that did it he was ok before he joined The army but did have a violent streak.. they made him a body guard to a top rank in NI before the murder

The other was an argument about a girl that developed into a brawl and then a knife was used the girl died with multiple stab wounds.

It is hard to find any info now about the murders because the press lke to keep the facts hidden.

[adimon]

But we kill loads of innocent kids and women in the process :confused:
How is that helping eh ?

Edit : Just to make it clear, I dont agree that we have invaded those countries for the reasons that Adimon says. He appears to be in denial.

Do you honestly believe that the British army is in Afghanistan ~ "To protect the rights of women who have suffered ritual abuse every day for their whole lives, who are less than slaves, have their genitals mutilated and their 'lives' made into property?"

Dear Strawmen, I did NOT suggest that the reason I gave was the reason NATO was deployed. I gave one possible objective which COULD be achieved through intervention in what is a relatively barbaric part of the world.

Steevo - I have made repeated requests for you to explain your fallacy that NATO soldiers are killing innocent women and children in Afghanistan at present, but you always avoid my question and tell me I'm in denial. Of course I'm not in denial, I have the facts at my disposal. I was in the Army, and was priveleged to information that you do not have. Much of this info I have shared here, and it's generally ignored by those that want to believe what the MSM tells them and nothing else.

Peachped - to answer your question - one of the likely outcomes of TWOT is greater secularisation of dangerous fundamentalisms. This I am in favour of. Would you happily see it continue? :confused:

[thisisactuallymyluciddream]

" Young men: The lowest aim in your life is to become a soldier. The good soldier never tries to distinguish right from wrong. He never thinks; never reasons; he only obeys. If he is ordered to fire on his fellow citizens, on his friends, on his neighbors, on his relatives, he obeys without hesitation. If he is ordered to fire down a crowded street when the poor are clamoring for bread, he obeys and sees the gray hairs of age stained with red and the life tide gushing from the breasts of women, feeling neither remorse nor sympathy. If he is ordered off as a firing squad to execute a hero or benefactor, he fires without hesitation, though he knows the bullet will pierce the noblest heart that ever beat in human breast.
A good soldier is a blind, heartless, soulless, murderous machine. He is not a man. He is not a brute, for brutes only kill in self defense. All that is human in him, all that is divine in him, all that constitutes the man has been sworn away when he took the enlistment roll. His mind, his conscience, aye, his very soul, are in the keeping of his officer.
No man can fall lower than the solder—it is a depth beneath which we cannot go. Keep the boys out of the army. It is hell.
Down with the army and the navy. We don't need killing institutions. We need life-giving institutions."

AMAZINGLY worded, did you write this yourself?

[steevo]

Steevo - I have made repeated requests for you to explain your fallacy that NATO soldiers are killing innocent women and children in Afghanistan at present, but you always avoid my question and tell me I'm in denial. Of course I'm not in denial, I have the facts at my disposal. I was in the Army, and was priveleged to information that you do not have. Much of this info I have shared here, and it's generally ignored by those that want to believe what the MSM tells them and nothing else.


You are the one who is constantly spouting out and repeating, the mainstream media BULLSHIT.
When I mention the MSM I analyse WHY they are "reporting" this BS and WHAT DIRECTION they are trying to shape our thinking.

The MSM is covering up the fact that loads of innocent kids and women (and men too) have died in Iraq and Afghanistan (it's covered up) so what are you going on about eh ?? I do not believe in the mainstream media fearmongering propaganda and lies. It's you who constantly tells us that the mainstream media is telling us the truth. You adimon or whatever username you are on today, are one of us, just a member of the general population and so are your family, you will regret your time wasting antics on here one day simply because to ARE one of us really. You are in Denial.

[peachped]

Peachped - to answer your question - one of the likely outcomes of TWOT is greater secularisation of dangerous fundamentalisms. This I am in favour of. Would you happily see it continue? :confused:

Adimon, the British army is not in Afghanistan to protect the local women from Islam, don't make me laugh, furthermore it is the ptb that are creating the war against terror in the first place, they create war in the ME in order to make gains re oil and territory whilst bringing muslims into our country in order to demonise them to further their agenda.

[adimon]

You are the one who is constantly spouting out and repeating, the mainstream media BULLSHIT.

Err...no. I think it was you that accepted the BBC story on the police raids without question or looking into proper sources. It is I that has first hand experience of military and government and still question everything I hear and see.

As for CONSTANTLY spouting, I have been a rare visitor to this site of late, having just spent some time on holiday. I'll leave the spouting and repeating to others. ;)


The MSM is covering up the fact that loads of innocent kids and women (and men too) have died in Iraq and Afghanistan (it's covered up) so what are you going on about eh ??

I never denied there have been a great many deaths did I? You continue to make strawman arguments. I'd disagree with you about the availability of the stories and statistics on offer in the MSM on these deaths. I'd also like to bring you back to your assertion that the role of NATO in these operations is murdering innocent civilians. Why do you believe this, and what are your sources? I am willing to discuss this properly with an open mind, but you have to provide something other than supposition.

It's you who constantly tells us that the mainstream media is telling us the truth.

LOL. I've never once said anything of the sort. Strawman bullshit again I'm afraid.

You adimon or whatever username you are on today

I only have one username and your repeated assertions to the opposite are pathetic.

you will regret your time wasting antics on here one day simply because to ARE one of us really. You are in Denial.

How arrogant of you to say that my now occasional visits to this forum are time-wasting. If you consider my posts to be a waste of YOUR time that is your prerogative, but don't waste my time by constantly insulting me and making baseless laughable accusations of multiple logins.

Adimon, the British army is not in Afghanistan to protect the local women from Islam, don't make me laugh, furthermore it is the ptb that are creating the war against terror in the first place, they create war in the ME in order to make gains re oil and territory whilst bringing muslims into our country in order to demonise them to further their agenda.

You obviously haven't read what I said at all. I know exactly why NATO are in Afghanistan and I disagree with their strategy, as I've already said. However, someone earlier made the point that it was impossible for anything positive to be gleamed from the operation, and I disagree.

Your refusal to actually read my posts, and then continue to level the same nonsensical claims at me, is the most revealing fact of all.

But hey, I wouldn't want to "make you laugh" by offering a viewpoint based on experience and real evidence. That might disturb your web-surfing research.

[weareinfinitelove]

Sounds like your friend needs educating as well before she brings him back to yours.

I used to live in a relatively small town and in the space of two years, there were two murders both committed by ex squaddies.

One had his throat cut in a pub after an argument (his next door neighbour) about loud music being played. I used to know the guy that did it he was ok before he joined The army but did have a violent streak.. they made him a body guard to a top rank in NI before the murder

The other was an argument about a girl that developed into a brawl and then a knife was used the girl died with multiple stab wounds.

It is hard to find any info now about the murders because the press lke to keep the facts hidden.


well, I'm glad I didn't show him what bill Hicks' has to say about people in the military..

[cleft_asunder]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..

This gets me thinking about the whole organic portal deal. Some people blelieve that not all humans have souls, and that up to 50% of the population operates at the bio-computer level. That is to say, there is no consciousness behind these humans that gives them the potential to break through their false personality, the body or "space suit." They lake empathy and compassion and can do whatever without consequence.

I don't know if it's true, but I speculate.

[eternal_spirit]

This gets me thinking about the whole organic portal deal. Some people blelieve that not all humans have souls, and that up to 50% of the population operates at the bio-computer level. That is to say, there is no consciousness behind these humans that gives them the potential to break through their false personality, the body or "space suit." They lake empathy and compassion and can do whatever without consequence.

I don't know if it's true, but I speculate.

...........................

Reminds me a bit of the reanimators.

[hagbard_celine]

Do you honestly believe that the British army is in Afghanistan ~ "To protect the rights of women who have suffered ritual abuse every day for their whole lives, who are less than slaves, have their genitals mutilated and their 'lives' made into property?"

If we were then wouldn't our soldiers be serving in an army that wasn't from a country that used to tolerate, and even support, the Taliban regime?;)

This is the problem I have. It was not wrong to remove Saddam or the Taliban from power. It was wrong to put them into power in the first place. Yet the same nations that did that are now fighting them! this is what makes me scoff when they say they're doing it to "liberate the people from tyranny and fere women from oppression!" It's as if you go to the doctor for an antidote only to finds that he's the one who deliberately poisoned you in the first place!:eek:

[hagbard_celine]

To whoever wrote this:

I have actually been debating on going back into the service. Even understanding what is going on in this world. I would not be going in for the 'thrill or glory' of battle, or to win medals to pin on my chest. I'd be going in for the purpose of protecting the innocents who are so frequently victimized, such as the one village in Afghanistan, that the Taliban went into and beheaded every single man, young and old. It was our Canadian men and women who went in there to find that horror. Sometimes all you can do is to stand up and fight the violence for pleasure seeking psychopaths, and no amount of infinite love can dissuade people like that from their acts of horror.

I'm sure you mean well, and no doubt putting a stop to beheadings etc can only be a good thing, but before you sign up, look at the bigger picture. the regime that dopes all this beheading was tolerated for decades by your government. In some case our governments even create those very regimes. You can deal with a problem in two ways, stem the bleeding when it happens or look for the cause of the bleeding and stop that, so you don't need to stem it any more.

[adimon]

This is the problem I have. It was not wrong to remove Saddam or the Taliban from power. It was wrong to put them into power in the first place.

Yes it was, and it was done (although I know you disagree with me) as proxy action during the Cold War.

But if you see past wrongs as preventing or denying current 'rights', then what course of action will possibly undo the past wrong? None.

If you don't mind me asking HC, what is your strongest objection to the fighting? i.e. on what basis - objectives, legality, chances of success, morality etc?

You're obviously not a simple "NOT IN MY NAME" type, and I was just wondering if you care to share your thoughts on that point? :)

My opposition of Op Herrick is mainly based on its objectives, just as my support for Telic.

[octopusrex]

An important factor in the armed services is that only about 1% of enlisted men and women are actually capable of killing their fellow men willingly.

In most battles, killing is the result of error, except for a few "terminators" that actually enjoy it. You need to be a "terminator" to be a General methinks.

[partisandonkey]

thats so sad! i've met a few people like that before, and it always makes me a) mad, for obvious reasons, but also b) very sad. i feel so bad for people like this. it's like, they dont even have a chance. and for the rest of humanity, we have to basically wait until people like this are dead to move on. there is no changing in a mentality like that. they are completely programmed and will remain like that until they die, or until something drastic happens directly to them or their family that makes them see things in a different light. so depressing.

[lost_in_translation]

War is about money. and nothing more. Our countries are not interested in saving the people of the world. if that were true we would go to Africa where there are warlords that make Saddam look like the Pope. Its about companies getting Billions in no bid contracts. companies like Haliburton. that get billions for rebuilding projects and build nothing because of "security" issues.

Of coarse the war still goes on. if my country where we were invaded and I did not have a job. no means to provide for my family. I would fight too.

I was deployed with the 1st armored division to Iraq in 2003 to 2004 in the US Army. I was in a combat roll. providing security for the baghdad int airport. and a 160 sq qm area surrounding the airport. I have seen the horrors of war not just on TV but in real life. I have seen the warehouses full of dollars. Companies like haliburton hiring Iraqis for the work and paying the workers 2 dollars a day. while their shareholders pockets get fat on projects that have not even been completed yet
but what can we do..

People like Osama bin laden fight against America but during the 80s we were supporting people like him in their fight against Russia. providing them with training and weapons like the short range air defence stinger" Which was my job in the army". He was once our friend. There are even reports that he was treated in a US Army hospital in saudi or kuwait during Sept 11 2001.

The soldiers that fight there . some are gun slingers. but most are normal people that did not have a chance to make it in the real world. like myself. we joined under false presumptions of glory and duty, money for school. travel. some are from the projects. where the government sells drugs to its own citizens in order to kill off or control the population of the communities it finds are not up to their standard . why pump money into those communities to make them better when you can sell drugs and flip a profit. so the hope is not there in their eyes to begin with.

the soldiers that you hear about doing stupid stuff in Iraq were messed up in their heads long before signing up for the army. I have the same training as most of them but you dont see me doing stupid shit like killing animals innocent people. babies. its the world as a whole that is messed up. there are killers. people who rape. rob. steal. and pedophiles in the cities that you call home and most of them never served in the army .

I now live in Germany with my wife and daughter. I got out of the us army after 6 years of "service" and I am much better for it. but at the same time I look around and feel the hate in man. and I cant wait for the end . whenever it comes. I am sure i am going to a better place and not because I believe in god from the words of the bible and through blind faith religion. which also divides mankind. but because i am a good person.

[hagbard_celine]

Yes it was, and it was done (although I know you disagree with me) as proxy action during the Cold War.

But if you see past wrongs as preventing or denying current 'rights', then what course of action will possibly undo the past wrong? None.

Definitely not! When we the people realize how we're being used as pawns in a game of Loomie chess then we'll hopefully take control of our own lives and stop playing these games! This includes the domestic situation in these tyranical regimes like Saddam's Iraq.

If we allow ourselves to be carried along into the next stage of the game, in full knowlege of what's going on, saying "It's OK, I'll just do this one more thing in the Illuminati's agenda, because it's removing a tyrant, and then I'll say no more and stop cooperating" then we could easily just get lost in the complexity of the situation instead of seeing it for what it is. Also we'll have to withold the truth. We'll be going "OK, I'll help spread this lie about WMD in Iraq, just one more time, because of all the good that will come as a result. After that I'll turn honest and stop playing the game".

The best solutions are always simple. As I said in the post above: Get the cause of the bleeding. Act on the situation as you see it, as it really is. Expose it for what it is and be fully open! How can colluding with it temporarily bring it down? That's an illusion; it just sucks you in and spits you out. I know because I've tried it! You should get David's newslatter because he wrote about this a few weeks ago.

The false-logic I outlined above has been tried before. It has done nothing to make the world one bit better because peace and plenty is always just around the next corner... no the next corner... no the next corner... and while we're persuing this rainbow, we leave behind us a wasteland of destruction. Because if you think that you're actions will bring about a paradise, then any means can be justified to get us to those ends. No depravtity is too low if you think it will help open the door to idyll.

[hagbard_celine]

If you don't mind me asking HC, what is your strongest objection to the fighting? i.e. on what basis - objectives, legality, chances of success, morality etc?

You're obviously not a simple "NOT IN MY NAME" type, and I was just wondering if you care to share your thoughts on that point? :)
.

I don't think it's right to kill people for the reasons that we are. It's as simple as that. I'm not a pacifist and know that thoughout human history we have fought eachother. I would gladly take up arms and join a militia or army to defend my family and community from violence. I believe that a totally peaceful world is possible, but it will not be easy to achive and will take a long time.

But the War on terror is something compeltely different. I could go to Afghanistan now and fight the Taliban and would have no qualms about that... in the short term. But then my next misson might be to destroy the new peaceful, democratic Afghanistan and help put an evil empire into power there because the next bit of the Unicol pipeline needs that kind of govt to build it!

[soldier0fortune]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..

You can either hate people whose views are different from yours (which seems to be the meathead soldiers position) or pity them.

Congratulations on proving yourself better.

[soldier0fortune]

Though from the sound of your story it wasnt exactly hard.

[binhdinh_khiwarrior]

live by the sword die by the sword...when he does eventually die, and the DMT hits his brain..then he might realise his mistakes..but i guess it's too late then...the army seems to attract ppl like that which is sad...

[seamus]

You can either hate people whose views are different from yours (which seems to be the meathead soldiers position) or pity them.

Congratulations on proving yourself better.
Or you can go them one better and help them become more evil so they will self-destruct sooner, thus leaving the universe free of their necrotic filth. I personally am not a good enough person that I would not become caught up in it. But I know some who are.

-S

[soldier0fortune]

Or you can go them one better and help them become more evil so they will self-destruct sooner, thus leaving the universe free of their necrotic filth. I personally am not a good enough person that I would not become caught up in it. But I know some who are.

-S

Hmm...

Intriguing thought process...

[marpat]

You met one service person with a bad attitude, but there are many, many thousands, the vast majority, who are nothing like this. It is people who are bad or evil, not the job they do. If people can't grasp that then they should look at their own shallow minds.
You can find people like that in any job. I bet even greenpeace has people like that amongst it's ranks.

[adimon]

I could go to Afghanistan now and fight the Taliban and would have no qualms about that... in the short term. But then my next misson might be to destroy the new peaceful, democratic Afghanistan and help put an evil empire into power there because the next bit of the Unicol pipeline needs that kind of govt to build it!

"MIGHT BE" ???

Not sure how I missed this before! I would recommend that you try to inhibit the degree to which your own suppositions affect your political views. You might think it rude of me to address you in this fashion, but you have in the past indicated your indifference towards the millions buried in Commonwealth War Graves across the world.

[seamus]

You met one service person with a bad attitude, but there are many, many thousands, the vast majority, who are nothing like this. It is people who are bad or evil, not the job they do. If people can't grasp that then they should look at their own shallow minds.
You can find people like that in any job. I bet even greenpeace has people like that amongst it's ranks.

Vast majority?
*cough*bullshit!*cough*
The vast majority of military personnel are submissive tyrants. These are the kind who enthusiastically agree that authority is a good thing, in hopes that they will get some one day. Which they can then use to control others.

Don't paint flowers on the military. It exists for one purpose: destruction.

-S

[marpat]

Vast majority?
*cough*bullshit!*cough*
The vast majority of military personnel are submissive tyrants. These are the kind who enthusiastically agree that authority is a good thing, in hopes that they will get some one day. Which they can then use to control others.

Don't paint flowers on the military. It exists for one purpose: destruction.

-S

I am a military person and don't fit your really poor description. Then again I have not been brainwashed by a one-sided dogma as you obviously have been.
Any of your family died fighting in the world wars? perhaps they also were submissive tyrants.
Do you have any personal experience of the military? have you ever been a member? if not then you are just speculating about something you don't know anything about. It's like trying to tell people being a homo is a good thing when you're not one.
I don't need to defend the honour of people in the forces in this forum as they would think your a sad, lonely, loser anyway. I hope you enjoy paying your taxes to keep these tyrants well paid.

[seamus]

I am a military person and don't fit your really poor description. Then again I have not been brainwashed by a one-sided dogma as you obviously have been.
Any of your family died fighting in the world wars? perhaps they also were submissive tyrants.
I don't need to defend the honour of people in the forces in this forum as they would think your a sad, lonely, loser anyway.

HAAAH!

I'm ex-military (army), as is my mother and my father (both marines) and my stepfather (army). I don't think dying qualifies as "better". I think it's largely a matter of chance. I know what the fuck i'm talking about. People who believe in a pecking order deserve it. Both my parents were fucked over in the military. My dad is now anti-authoritarian, but still bent to the pecking-order thing (it runs deep).

I certainly was brainwashed by one-sided dogma. "The US is good. The enemy is the enemy. Bad." Gladly i was able to reclaim my mind. What, you're telling me they didn't drill that into you? what cupcake was your drill instructor?


If you aren't a passive/aggressive type, you're in the military for what, the school money? I can understand that. I am talking about people who believe in the military way. Jarheads... Motaris.


-S

[marpat]

HAAAH!

I'm ex-military (army), as is my mother and my father (both marines) and my stepfather (army). I don't think dying qualifies as "better". I think it's largely a matter of chance. I know what the fuck i'm talking about. People who believe in a pecking order deserve it. Both my parents were fucked over in the military. My dad is now anti-authoritarian, but still bent to the pecking-order thing (it runs deep).

I certainly was brainwashed by one-sided dogma. "The US is good. The enemy is the enemy. Bad." Gladly i was able to reclaim my mind. What, you're telling me they didn't drill that into you? what cupcake was your drill instructor?


If you aren't a passive/aggressive type, you're in the military for what, the school money? I can understand that. I am talking about people who believe in the military way. Jarheads... Motaris.


-S


Well you see that is just the problem, you were in the US forces. I am aware of their training methods and they are nothing like the UK methods. Over here people are not broken down and rebuilt in a new mould as over there, we do not shout stupid songs and wave flags like idiots. The US forces are far more brainwashed than any other. I myself have have a techincal trade so do not suffer from all the combat training mental conditioning. I come across American governmet employees a number of times and they are very passive, quiet people. To them I must seem like some unhinged madman.

The fact is that people volunteer for such jobs and have to take the risks that go with it. The combat troops may be jarheads but I still would not want to be doing their job. They get paid a lot less money to do far more dangerous jobs than I will ever do.

[hagbard_celine]

You might think it rude of me to address you in this fashion, but you have in the past indicated your indifference towards the millions buried in Commonwealth War Graves across the world.

EH?:confused: When have I indicated that? I most certainly am not indifferent to those graves at all and if I've said otherwise could you post a link?

[hagbard_celine]

"MIGHT BE" ???

Not sure how I missed this before! I would recommend that you try to inhibit the degree to which your own suppositions affect your political views.

I don't know what you mean by that:confused:. The scenario I have described could happen. It has happened in other countries many times.

[weareinfinitelove]

GOSH.

What a can of worms I opened up here!

good good.
X

[esse]

[QUOTE=weareinfinitelove;220745]well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..[Quote]






Have you seen the movie "Harsh Times" with Christian Bale? Sums up this kind of guy perfectly.
Some people are psychopaths - its true.
Not a nice thing to experience in any degree.
& I wouldn't want to change places with someone so incredibly lost.

[seamus]

Well you see that is just the problem, you were in the US forces. I am aware of their training methods and they are nothing like the UK methods. Over here people are not broken down and rebuilt in a new mould as over there, we do not shout stupid songs and wave flags like idiots. The US forces are far more brainwashed than any other. I myself have have a techincal trade so do not suffer from all the combat training mental conditioning. I come across American governmet employees a number of times and they are very passive, quiet people. To them I must seem like some unhinged madman.

The fact is that people volunteer for such jobs and have to take the risks that go with it. The combat troops may be jarheads but I still would not want to be doing their job. They get paid a lot less money to do far more dangerous jobs than I will ever do.

Oh. You're a brit. Sorry, gov. Actually I have no clue what other armed forces are, but I imagine they vary a bit from country to country. In China, for example, i am sure you are trained to have zero respect for the value of life. How else could you kill people who are asking peacefully for the right to determine the course of their own lives? Same with Burma and the Koreas. Even South Korean military is over-the-top hardcore. I was there in 1995-96.

S

[marpat]

Oh. You're a brit. Sorry, gov. Actually I have no clue what other armed forces are, but I imagine they vary a bit from country to country. In China, for example, i am sure you are trained to have zero respect for the value of life. How else could you kill people who are asking peacefully for the right to determine the course of their own lives? Same with Burma and the Koreas. Even South Korean military is over-the-top hardcore. I was there in 1995-96.

S


No problem. It just grips my shit a bit when people sterotype forces personnel. I know many people who are good, upstanding, thoughtful people who would dump their jobs rather than carry out some oppressive regime against the public. I do not know anybody who acts like the person described in the opening post. I know for a fact that a person like that would be totally disliked and isolated by the people around him.

I think asian armies are hardcore because a lot of those countries have a very martial attitude towards life anyway.

[belfast atheist]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..

we had them in belfast for 40 years.:(

[marpat]

we had them in belfast for 40 years.:(


You must be a catholic. Funny as I thought the army went there to protect the catholics. It just a shame that the IRA had to murder so many innocent people in their violent quest. However, it is nice to see they have stopped the shootings and bombings and went over to armed robbery, extortion, and drug dealing to keep their incomes.

[lightgiver]

thank goodness i never hurt anyone in my time in the forces(uk forces)
you get assholes in all walks of life
not all squaddies are meatheads,i came across some in my time,but their were some good lads and lasses to:)
when in the 1st gulf war(staged event) we came across many Iraqi's(soldiers),they were in a pitiful state,we treated them with respect and dignity,gave them our rations and helped them medically,they seemed relieved that it was over for them
they were in a mess,no proper equipment,bedraggled,some did not even have shoelaces in,it was a pity, we felt sorry for them
but in no way did we treat them with disrespect or inhumanely,after all saddam just dumped them in the desert:(
we took them to a drop off point,were they was picked up later and were took to a stadium pow camp and looked after,and i can verify that 100%
so please don't tarnish all service personnel,after meeting 1 meathead,
their are plenty meatheads in civvy street to:)
ALL WAR IS FUTILE

[lightgiver]

You must be a catholic. Funny as I thought the army went there to protect the catholics. It just a shame that the IRA had to murder so many innocent people in their violent quest. However, it is nice to see they have stopped the shootings and bombings and went over to armed robbery, extortion, and drug dealing to keep their incomes.

IRA funded by the AMERICANS,another staged event:eek:

[lightgiver]

It makes them feel even worse when the person not affected is female.

there are females in the forces to ya know:)
not all squaddies and x squaddies have big egos:)
what about all the yobs on britain streets killing people and mugging old gentlemen and ladies raping women and all sorts of misdemeanour's,
they are not squaddies,
you cannot judge everyone the same way after a few isolated incidents,
in all walks of life you get idiots
remember the rangers fans in madchester the other day:eek:
they were not squaddies were they?
just mindless thugs:(

[lightgiver]

That was excellent, well done Kuro, very well said. Fucking hell if we saved the military budget and moved it to health, well being and betterment of humanity this fucking shite hole reality could be so much better.

some people join the forces due to lack of opportunities, and lack of work as well?and yes it is brainwashing,but we are all brainwashed to a certain degree:(
sometimes we should try to be a little more understanding and compassionate before we get to judge mental:)
i am sure most x forces de program when they get out,
a lot i knew were not even brainwashed by the forces we are not all sheep ya know:)
when i was in germany we used to love our little jaunts(joints)into holland:)
GOOD WEED MAN:D:D

[hagbard_celine]

there are females in the forces to ya know:)
not all squaddies and x squaddies have big egos:)
what about all the yobs on britain streets killing people and mugging old gentlemen and ladies raping women and all sorts of misdemeanour's,
they are not squaddies,
you cannot judge everyone the same way after a few isolated incidents,
in all walks of life you get idiots
remember the rangers fans in madchester the other day:eek:
they were not squaddies were they?
just mindless thugs:(

I can't remember in what context I wrote that. Whatever it was, I know what you're saying and I'd never denounce an individual because of their profession. (I hope that nobody would do so to me, although it happeens regularly.)

[lightgiver]

your a good soul hagbard:)cool;):)

[mountain]

I know several people in the US military and all of them are on anti-depressants and alcoholics. After talking with them I have discovered that they want to leave, they are regretful of ever "serving". Some were brainwashed into it by their own militant parents...it really is a saddening.

Thankfully, there are those who realize they are being used and see the horrors of war up close, they change their hearts and minds. Let us look forward to this enlightenment among the many still being played as pawns in this game. I am very optimistic.:)

[soldier0fortune]

The thing that amuses me no end is how desperate most of you are going to be for someone with military training to help you out when the shit hits the fan.

I wonder if, even then, you will realise that your hypocrisy stinks like shit on your boots.

[esse]

Hey, Military Training sure - would be great to be proficient with firearms - (what else useful do they teach you?) - The not very good part is becoming a member of a army who can by law be called upon to serve in wartime - court martial anyone?

It is easy to see why people get into these forces when the pay and training on offer are made so appealing, a young person can really get hooked up - or a leg up - they are always advertising - - -

But who wants to be the gun that fires for corrupt governments?

[eternal_spirit]

The thing that amuses me no end is how desperate most of you are going to be for someone with military training to help you out when the shit hits the fan.

I wonder if, even then, you will realise that your hypocrisy stinks like shit on your boots.
........................


You had a choice to join the military or not, if everyone refused to join there would be no wars.

How do you mean? Are you expecting an invasion of the UK or USA? And if so by whom?

[21_12_2012]

........................


You had a choice to join the military or not, if everyone refused to join there would be no wars.

If only more could see this simple truth.

[adimon]

It is easy to see why people get into these forces when the pay and training on offer are made so appealing, a young person can really get hooked up - or a leg up - they are always advertising

I'm not challenging any other part of the debate - just wanted to say that forces wages are pretty low in comparison with nearly every other sector of employment.

[adzboarder]

I read in the paper yesterday that its about to become a crime to assault someone in service uniform.

So next time you see a load of pissed squaddies in the pub being wankers, remember that if you get punched by one of them then thats ok and nothing will happen to them, but if you punch one then you can go to prison for striking someone in uniform.

Great.

[marpat]

........................


You had a choice to join the military or not, if everyone refused to join there would be no wars.

How do you mean? Are you expecting an invasion of the UK or USA? And if so by whom?

But everybody will not refuse to join because not everybody has peaceful ideals. What happens when nations disagree over resources and it escalates. It only take on to start the ball rolling again and if other nations are defenceless then control will be quickly achieved.

[soldier0fortune]

........................


You had a choice to join the military or not, if everyone refused to join there would be no wars.

How do you mean? Are you expecting an invasion of the UK or USA? And if so by whom?

Look around at your neighbours and the people walking the streets.

Now imagine them starving, unable to afford the little food available in the shops.

I dont think i need to go on.

[soldier0fortune]

But everybody will not refuse to join because not everybody has peaceful ideals. What happens when nations disagree over resources and it escalates. It only take on to start the ball rolling again and if other nations are defenceless then control will be quickly achieved.

Spot on.

Its fine to imagine life being a fluffy wonderland.

But it aint and never will be.

[21_12_2012]

Spot on.

Its fine to imagine life being a fluffy wonderland.

But it aint and never will be.

Spot on !

With beliefs and attitudes like yours, it 'aint and never will be' !
(in your reality...)

[lightgiver]

MAD MAX here we come:eek::eek:;)

[izzy]

i dont think you should ' turn ' on members of the armed forces, actually I think we should treat members of our armed services with respect.

There are good and bad in all areas of life [ a cliche i know ] but I do not think that men and women who I have met in the army have been power or blood crazed in fact in many cases I would say they have alot more compassion then the average person on the street.

They have seen some really awful situations .. dont blame them for the mess and the chaos in Iraq and such places , it is the PTB that send young men and women to war .. and most people join the armed services for adventure and lots of reasons such as to learn a trade[ i think ] I cannot imagine anyone joins to kill [ or 99% I am sure dont ]

So please dont slag them off, many of them have suffered terribly having limbs blown off and being killed. They are treated like shit by the govt when they return, I think it is a bit of a cheap shot picking on them

They are no different from you and I and whilst they may be a bit brainwashed ... lets be honest are nt we all !!

I actually think the police are far worse then the army in terms of being brainwashed actually and they are far scarier

[mystiq_99]

Real "killers" only make up about 1% of the population. That means that only ONE of us in 100 would be willing and enjoy murdering other human beings. The rest are disgusted by this activity.

HOWEVER, this percentage can be changed by programming.

Out of 6 billion plus, that one percent is way to high!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[adimon]

I read in the paper yesterday that its about to become a crime to assault someone in service uniform.

So next time you see a load of pissed squaddies in the pub being wankers, remember that if you get punched by one of them then thats ok and nothing will happen to them, but if you punch one then you can go to prison for striking someone in uniform.

Great.

Absolute bollocks. That's being polite. Daily Mail by any chance?

[izzy]

they are not allowed to get drunk in uniform .. the MP would pick them up

[marpat]

I read in the paper yesterday that its about to become a crime to assault someone in service uniform.

So next time you see a load of pissed squaddies in the pub being wankers, remember that if you get punched by one of them then thats ok and nothing will happen to them, but if you punch one then you can go to prison for striking someone in uniform.

Great.

Are you serious? I doubt they would wear uniforms to go out with anyway as they will not want to stand out if they are going to cause trouble. The reality is that if such a thing happened they would be punished severely for bringing disgrace on their unit. It would mean a formal charge against them, a large fine and a mark on their character which would damage their career prospects.

[marpat]

i dont think you should ' turn ' on members of the armed forces, actually I think we should treat members of our armed services with respect.

There are good and bad in all areas of life [ a cliche i know ] but I do not think that men and women who I have met in the army have been power or blood crazed in fact in many cases I would say they have alot more compassion then the average person on the street.

They have seen some really awful situations .. dont blame them for the mess and the chaos in Iraq and such places , it is the PTB that send young men and women to war .. and most people join the armed services for adventure and lots of reasons such as to learn a trade[ i think ] I cannot imagine anyone joins to kill [ or 99% I am sure dont ]

So please dont slag them off, many of them have suffered terribly having limbs blown off and being killed. They are treated like shit by the govt when they return, I think it is a bit of a cheap shot picking on them

They are no different from you and I and whilst they may be a bit brainwashed ... lets be honest are nt we all !!

I actually think the police are far worse then the army in terms of being brainwashed actually and they are far scarier


Excellent post. Many people seem to think that once people have been to war they become dangerous, mindless murderers rather than the fact that the suffering and death they see actually makes them want to make a difference for people, to help relive the suffering of others.

I think the real problem is that the forces have been sterotyped in order to make them fit the illuminati agenda theories. They have been protrayed as mindless drones who murder for the illuminati cause, and the conspiracy theorists who know no better take this for fact. In order for the conspiracy theorists to further their belief in the mindless, brainwashed forces they have to try and strip them of any sense of humanity while at the same time trying to amplify any negative traits. They are then seen as negative people with no human feelings, but this is an illusion created by people who want to believe that the armed forces are inherently evil.

[hagbard_celine]

Absolute bollocks. That's being polite. Daily Mail by any chance?

Adimon, you've never responded to my question about how you came to the conclusion that I don't care about the Commonwealth war graves.:confused:

but you have in the past indicated your indifference towards the millions buried in Commonwealth War Graves across the world.

[cruise4]

"Look around at your neighbours and the people walking the streets.

Now imagine them starving, unable to afford the little food available in the shops.

I dont think i need to go on."

Yes you do... because if anyone is starving, unable to afford the little food available in the shops. its as a direct consequence of soldiers obeying criminal commands.

This is what you don't seem to get. No armies means small consequences. Armies make big consequences. I'll protect myself with my own guns, which I'm not allowed thanks to you guys and the police backing up stupid policies. We don't need you, we don't want you and I mean ALL of you. You are MOB ENFORCERS. Thats it! No Glory, No heroes, just patsies. They intend to kill you all deliberately for no reason whatsoever. If you think thats something worth defending.... more fool you. Then we'll face the criminal thugs from Rwanda and elsewhere, your replacements because you aren't even defending anyone. Your current role is uselessness. Worse than uselessness. The army and police are pathetic. They should be dressed in ronald mcdonald uniforms.
OR THEY SHOULD START DOING THEIR JOB. Until you do expect to be laughed at. On the other hand if you arrest your commanding officers, arrest the met, arrest Politicians and Royalty, arrest the media, Arrest the bankers, arrest the councils, arrest the secret services... etc. YOU WOULD BE HEROES. YOU WOULD BE USEFUL. You would be doing your job... and we'd be happy putting our lives on the line alongside you. And most vets I've heard echo much of this. At present you are hired hands for mercenary scum.

[marpat]

"Look around at your neighbours and the people walking the streets.

Now imagine them starving, unable to afford the little food available in the shops.

I dont think i need to go on."

Yes you do... because if anyone is starving, unable to afford the little food available in the shops. its as a direct consequence of soldiers obeying criminal commands.

This is what you don't seem to get. No armies means small consequences. Armies make big consequences. I'll protect myself with my own guns, which I'm not allowed thanks to you guys and the police backing up stupid policies. We don't need you, we don't want you and I mean ALL of you. You are MOB ENFORCERS. Thats it! No Glory, No heroes, just patsies. They intend to kill you all deliberately for no reason whatsoever. If you think thats something worth defending.... more fool you. Then we'll face the criminal thugs from Rwanda and elsewhere, your replacements because you aren't even defending anyone. Your current role is uselessness. Worse than uselessness. The army and police are pathetic. They should be dressed in ronald mcdonald uniforms.
OR THEY SHOULD START DOING THEIR JOB. Until you do expect to be laughed at. On the other hand if you arrest your commanding officers, arrest the met, arrest Politicians and Royalty, arrest the media, Arrest the bankers, arrest the councils, arrest the secret services... etc. YOU WOULD BE HEROES. YOU WOULD BE USEFUL. You would be doing your job... and we'd be happy putting our lives on the line alongside you. And most vets I've heard echo much of this. At present you are hired hands for mercenary scum.

So you are happy to kill when it suits your purpose, to protect your cabbage patch. And who do you mean by you guys? it is the government that make those rules. Even military people live under those rules. I could tell you the laws for the carrying of weapons by personnel but it would be wrong to discuss such things here with people like you who take from society what you don't put back in. I heard you were prepared to go to prison for non-payment of poll tax. Did it happen then or did you cough up?

I don't think you speak for everybody when you say stuff like that. If the goverment says we want to be part of the EU are the speaking on behalf of you or for you? let people decide what they want, do not tell them that because you think it is wrong that they must believe this is true.

Strong words from a nobody, somebody who claims money is bad and wrong, who tries to dictate about the false value of money but who is happy to have money to pay for electricity, gas, water, food, for a computer and internet connection. Smack of hypocracy really.

look at what you are saying, arrest basically everybody who you think is responsible. That sort of thing might have happened in a communist country.

[marpat]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..

Has anybody actually asked the question of whether this post is true or just made up to perpetuate a stereotype that is common amongst conspiracy theorists? what happens if this poster is lying just to bait people into argument? if this person was so obnoxious then why even hold conversation or let this person enter the house? all we have to go on is this persons word. If you were asked to trust the words of St Paul what would you say?

[cruise4]

Something odd going on with the post counts.

Sorry marpat, nothing sensible to respond to.

[marpat]

Something odd going on with the post counts.

Sorry marpat, nothing sensible to respond to.

That is because you only believe in nonsense. You will happily accept the opening post because it fits with your preconceived ideas but you disagree strongly with anything which counters them. Pretty biased and programmed if you ask me. I could find many thousands of examples completely unlike what i posted here but you would never accept what I say because you have closed your mind completely to there being anything good.

did you pay you poll tax or go to prison then? I bet you caved in and paid up.

You state in places that it is wrong to kill and that this destroys the soul but then you said you will use guns to defend yourself. Why? if you reincarnate then why fight at all? you can get killed and then you will not have to pay the rice for killing a person.

[cruise4]

How much will you bet me?

[izzy]

This is what you don't seem to get. No armies means small consequences. Armies make big consequences. I'll protect myself with my own guns, which I'm not allowed thanks to you guys and the police backing up stupid policies. We don't need you, we don't want you and I mean ALL of you. You are MOB ENFORCERScruise

woah ! why do you hate the army so much .. can I ask which countries army you have had an encounter with ?

I think you are being unfair actually, but you obviously have strong feelings.

I meet people in the forces all the times and I find them more honourable then alot of people ... btw that does not mean i support war .. i do not !

[cruise4]

NO... I don't hate the army. I hate the fact that the army has a job to do... defend the people and the country from internal or external threat, but instead they let the people and the country get taken over from the inside by murdering criminal scum. Whats gone on with the EU should have brought about the arrest of the government long ago. I hate the fact they seem to have completely forgotten what their role is. I hate the fact the boys, and many of them are just that, are lied to and sent to fight illegal wars, based on terrorism committed by their own side, like the SAS for instance, or MI6/MI5 etc. I WANT TO SAVE THEIR LIVES AND THEIR COUNTRY. I'm harsh because the situation demands they wake up from their deluded state. I friggin' care. I have family members who went through WW2. I grew up wanting to be in the RAF. I was in the ATC. I went on Officer training etc. BUT ITS ALL A PACK OF LIES.

Look at the Police arresting kids for a joint or something whilst the secret services (their superiours) run the world's drug rings, prostitution rackets, child trafficking, people smuggling... you name it.

Look at how the drug output is up as OUR ARMY guard the opium fields. I mean the hypocrisy and sheer patheticness of the situation is outrageous.

So I'm calling a spade a spade. At the present moment the army and police are laughing stocks. Of course they are. But its not their fault but they are certainly the people to start putting it right.

What would you rather I did. Pat them on the back say good job and help pay for their coffin? The situation is ridiculous.

The people in charge get away with EVERYTHING they are doing, the poisoning, the additives, the suppressions, everything, for one reason. The people supposed to guard against this sort of thing are colluding with them... and its embarassing. I used to be proud of both forces. I used to argue the British people would stand up for whats right and we had a sense of social justice. Not any more. I can't see the difference between the SS and our lot bar scale. And the US make up for that.

[izzy]

ok but it sounds like you are having a go at men and women who join the forces ..a nd your right its not their fault .. its the politicians you shoud be mad with .. and to be fair sounds lik eyou are..

You are right people in the forces give their lives but are ' used ' by the politicians .. it is disgrace .. maybe there should be a coup !

actually the police force in britain worry me more .. they really are political even at the level of a PC and alot of them are not very good at using their discretion .. so I actually think they are more brainwashed and they are the real army of the poilticians ,.. and giving them tasers is worrying !

The people in charge get away with EVERYTHING they are doing

I agree .. but they will find they wont always be able to get away with it .. they are panicking because th e old world is collapsing .. they are trying to hang onto control

[lizzy]

NO... I don't hate the army. I hate the fact that the army has a job to do... defend the people and the country from internal or external threat, but instead they let the people and the country get taken over from the inside by murdering criminal scum. Whats gone on with the EU should have brought about the arrest of the government long ago. I hate the fact they seem to have completely forgotten what their role is. I hate the fact the boys, and many of them are just that, are lied to and sent to fight illegal wars, based on terrorism committed by their own side, like the SAS for instance, or MI6/MI5 etc. I WANT TO SAVE THEIR LIVES AND THEIR COUNTRY. I'm harsh because the situation demands they wake up from their deluded state. I friggin' care. I have family members who went through WW2. I grew up wanting to be in the RAF. I was in the ATC. I went on Officer training etc. BUT ITS ALL A PACK OF LIES.

Look at the Police arresting kids for a joint or something whilst the secret services (their superiours) run the world's drug rings, prostitution rackets, child trafficking, people smuggling... you name it.

Look at how the drug output is up as OUR ARMY guard the opium fields. I mean the hypocrisy and sheer patheticness of the situation is outrageous.

So I'm calling a spade a spade. At the present moment the army and police are laughing stocks. Of course they are. But its not their fault but they are certainly the people to start putting it right.

What would you rather I did. Pat them on the back say good job and help pay for their coffin? The situation is ridiculous.


Exactly. well said cruise.

[cruise4]

I don't disagree regarding the Police. They worry me more too. I've had first hand experience of their thuggery. I'm just frustrated. If the army would do whats required everything could work out fairly quietly and well for everyone. If they don't there's every chance this will get extremely serious and within months. But an army doing bad deeds is a completely different animal to one doing good deeds. If the wars weren't manipulated think what a fine occupation the army would be. The genuine help and good that could be done. The army is capable of so much and instead is sold down the river. But I'm not going to ask people to do something I'm not prepared to participate in or do myself either.

[weareinfinitelove]

Not a nice thing to experience in any degree.
& I wouldn't want to change places with someone so incredibly lost.

no.. no way.

Another thing, about a month ago now when I was walking past the town hall in Manchester there was a large event set up on the front to attract prospective military people from the general public. They really made it look inviting. One big party in fact. Music, smiles headings such as CAREERS and pictures of fun activities that would come from signing up.
this propoganda stuff really works..

[eternal_spirit]

no.. no way.

Another thing, about a month ago now when I was walking past the town hall in Manchester there was a large event set up on the front to attract prospective military people from the general public. They really made it look inviting. One big party in fact. Music, smiles headings such as CAREERS and pictures of fun activities that would come from signing up.
this propoganda stuff really works..
...................

Sugar coated BS! In the past soldiers were seen as heroes ( too many of the programmed masses ) And the one's in the community who refused to kill ( pacifists wise ones, loving ones ) were in some cases looked down upon and called cowards etc.

Guess that old spell was broken long ago, so they need new propaganda to recruit the unwary, stupid, psychopaths etc into their fold. :(

[hagbard_celine]

...................

Sugar coated BS! In the past soldiers were seen as heroes ( too many of the programmed masses ) And the one's in the community who refused to kill ( pacifists wise ones, loving ones ) were in some cases looked down upon and called cowards etc.

Guess that old spell was broken long ago, so they need new propaganda to recruit the unwary, stupid, psychopaths etc into their fold. :(

It's certainly true that propaganda is changing, but the old blood-and-glory type proaganda is still being maintained. Remember those appaling TV recruitment ads they broadcast a few years ago where they portray the boys who don't join the army as dim-witted, sexually untouchable gnomes, just sitting around being bored all day saying "Yer-what?" while "Frank" and his Comformistly-correct comrades travel the world having fun and getting laid? It was very emotionally violent indeed! Todays army recruitment ads are slightly better, and do show signs of a new, more subtle approach. If this is because the old blood-and-glory routine is failing then that's good!

But to those members who criticise the military, remember that most of us are probably doing jobs that support the NWO agenda in one way or another. I'm a hospital porter in the NHS so I work for the world's biggest and most brutal drug baron! It kills, maims and destroys more lives than the military ever could! I do the job because I believe I can do some good with it. I can show people the stupidity of the Conformist Regime, counsel and comfort the patients and other staff and campaign for a better helth service run by workers' cooperatives and using natural medicine instead of Big Pharma's poison.

Maybe there are those in the military who think as I do.

[belfast atheist]

You must be a catholic. Funny as I thought the army went there to protect the catholics. It just a shame that the IRA had to murder so many innocent people in their violent quest. However, it is nice to see they have stopped the shootings and bombings and went over to armed robbery, extortion, and drug dealing to keep their incomes.

check the user name asshole. btw the brits soon turned on the nationalist people after pressure from the unionist politicians after coming here in 69. its a shame the ira had to exist at all but seeing as how loyalists/british army/ruc/B specials hit squads were murdering innocent catholics for years its hardly surprising they did. im in no way an ira supporter but one things for sure if they hadnt organised in 69 there would have been a massacre of the catholic/nationalist community. oh yeah armed robbery,extorsion,drug dealing? check out your loyalist friends for these activities.

[eternal_spirit]

Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars
by William Cooper
www.williamcooper.org (http://www.williamcooper.org)
(Posted here by Wes Penre for Illuminati News, December 14, 2003)

Top Secret Confidential


Preface

Conspiracy theories are nothing new to history. Plots to kill Caesar and
overthrow Rome abounded, for instance. However, it is seldom that concrete
clues to such plots come to light, and are generally known.
The document you are about to read is real. It is no forgery, as alleged of
"The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion." or actual forgeries such as
those of Anne Frank, or (more recently) Hitler's diary.

"TOP SECRET: Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, An introductory Programming
Manual" was uncovered quite by accident on July 7th, 1986 when an employee
of Boeing Aircraft Co. purchased a surplus IBM copier for scrap parts at a
sale, and discovered inside details of a plan, hatched in embryonic days of
the "Cold War" which called for control of the masses through manipulation
of Industry, peoples' pastimes, education and political learning's. It
called for a quite revolution, putting brother against brother, and
diverting the public's attention from what is really going on.

For all intents and purposes, this document has "come to pass," much as
Henry Ford, Sr. said the Protocols (regardless of their veracity) applied to
the events of his day.

It is reprinted in its virgin form, with diagrams, as a touch of reality.

It is heavy reading, but it will (as it well should) spur you to read
further, keep your eyes and ears open, and sound an alarm in Zion, for
though she presently dwells with Babylon's daughter (Micah 4), her
redemption draweth nigh.

Truth bears no fear.

--- TOP SECRET ---

SILENT WEAPONS FOR QUITE WARS

THE DRAFT (As military service.)
Few efforts of human behavior modification are more remarkable or more
effective than that of the socio-military institution known as the draft. A
primary purpose of a draft or other such institution is to instill, by
intimidation, in young males of a society the uncritical conviction that the
government is omnipotent. He is soon taught that a prayer is slow to reverse
what a bullet can do in an instant. Thus, a man trained in a religious
environment for eighteen years of his life can, by this instrument of the
government, be broken down, be purged of his fantasies and delusions in a
matter or mere months. Once that conviction is instilled, all else becomes
easy to install.

Even more interesting is the process by which a young man's parents, who
purportedly love him, can be induced to send him off to war to his death.
Although the scope of this work will not allow this matter to be expanded in
full detail, nevertheless, a coarse overview will be possible and can serve
to reveal those factors which must be included in some numerical form in a
computer analysis of a social and war systems. We begin with a tentative
definition of the draft.

The draft (selective service etc.) is an institution of compulsory
collective sacrifice and slavery, devised by the middle aged and the elderly
for the purpose of pressing the young into doing the public dirty work. It
further serves to make the youth as guilty as the elders, thus making
criticism of the elders by the young less likely (Generational Stabilizer).
It is marketed and sold to the public under the label of "patriotic *
national" service.

Once a candid economic definition of the draft is achieved, that definition
is used to outline the boundaries of structure called a Human Value System,
which in turn is translated into the terms of game theory. The value of such
a slave laborer is given in a table of Human Values, a table broken down
into categories by intellect, experience, post service job demand, etc..

Some of these categories are ordinary and can be quantively (sic) evaluated in
terms of the value of certain jobs for which a known fee exists. Some jobs
are harder to value because they are unique to the demands of social
subversion, for an extreme example: the value of a mother's instruction to
her daughter causing that daughter to put certain behavioral demands upon a
future husband, ten or fifteen years hence, thus, by suppressing his
resistance to a perversion of a government, making it easier for a banking
cartel to buy the State of New York in, say, twenty years.

Such a problem leans heavily upon the observations of wartime espionage and
many types of psychological testing. But crude mathematical models
(algorithms, etc.) can be devised, if not to predict, at least to
predetermine these events with maximum certainty. What does not exist by
natural cooperation is thus enhanced by calculated compulsion. Human beings
are machines, levers which may be grasped and turned, and there is little
real difference between automating a society and automating a shoe factory.

These derived values are variable. (It is necessary to use a current Table
of Human Values for computer analysis.) These values are given in true
dollars rather than U.S. dollars, since the latter is unstable, being
presently inflated beyond the production of national goods and services,
tends to give the economy a false kinetic energy (`paper' inductance). The
silver value is stable, it being possible to buy the same amount with a gram
of silver today as could be bought in 1920. Human value measured in silver
units changes slightly due to changes in production technology.

ENFORCEMENT
FACTOR I

As in every social system approach, stability is achieved only by
understanding and accounting for human nature (action/reaction patterns). A
failure to do so can be, and usually is, disastrous. As in other human
social schemes, one form or another of intimidation (or incentive) is
essential to the success of the draft. Physical principles of action and
reaction must be applied to both internal and external sub-systems. To
secure the draft, individual brainwashing/programing (sic) of both the family unit
and the peer group must be engaged and brought under control.

FACTOR II FATHER

The man of the household must be house-broken to assure that junior will
grow up with the right social training and attitudes. The advertising media,
etc., are engaged to see to it that father-to-be is pussy wiped before or by
the time he is married. He is taught that he either conforms to the social
notch cut out for him or his sex life will be hobbled and his tender
companionship will be zero. He is made to see that women demand security
more than logical, principled, or honorable behavior. By the time his son
must go to war, father (with jelly for for a back bone) will slam a gun into
junior's hand before father will risk the censure of his peers, or make a
hypocrite of himself by crossing the investment he has in his own personal
opinion or self-esteem. Junior will go to war or father will be embarrassed.
So junior will go to war, the true purpose of the war notwithstanding.

FACTOR III MOTHER

The female element of human society is ruled by emotion first and logic
second. In the battle between logic and imagination, imagination always
wins, fantasy profile, maternal instinct dominates so that the child comes
first and the future comes second. A woman with a newborn baby is too
starry-eyed to see a wealthy man's cannon fodder or a cheap source of slave
labor. A woman must; however, be conditioned to accept the transition to
"reality" when it comes, or sooner. As the transition becomes more difficult
to manage, the family unit must be carefully disintegrated, and state
controlled public education and state operated child care centers must
become more common and legally enforced so as to begin the detachment of the
child from the mother and father at an earlier age. Inoculation of
behavioral drugs can speed the transition for the child (mandatory).
CAUTION: A woman's impulsive anger can override her fear. An irate woman's
power over a pussy wiped husband must likewise never be underestimated. It
got women the vote in 1920.

FACTOR IV JUNIOR

The emotional pressure for self-preservation during time of war and the
self-serving attitude of the common herd that have an option to avoid the
battlefield -- if junior can be persuaded to go -- is all of the pressure
finally necessary to propel Johnny off to war. Their quiet blackmailing of
him are the threats: "No sacrifice, no friends; no glory, no girlfriends."

FACTOR V SISTER

And what about junior's sister? She is given all the good things of life by
her father, and taught to expect the same from her future husband regardless
of the price.

FACTOR VI CATTLE

Those who will not use their brains are no better off then those who have no
brains, and so this mindless school of jellyfish, father, mother, son, and
courtier, become useful beasts of burden.

This concludes what is available (and what was found) of this government
document.

[marpat]

check the user name asshole. btw the brits soon turned on the nationalist people after pressure from the unionist politicians after coming here in 69. its a shame the ira had to exist at all but seeing as how loyalists/british army/ruc/B specials hit squads were murdering innocent catholics for years its hardly surprising they did. im in no way an ira supporter but one things for sure if they hadnt organised in 69 there would have been a massacre of the catholic/nationalist community. oh yeah armed robbery,extorsion,drug dealing? check out your loyalist friends for these activities.

My bad!!!!
Sorry for that post, was just a bit pissed off.

[belfast atheist]

My bad!!!!
Sorry for that post, was just a bit pissed off.

oh ok, :)

[lightgiver]

Well one unfortunate thing about the forces today and for many years,that they are just a bunch of blinded brainwashed mercenaries doing the dirty work of the elites:eek:

IN THE LAND OF THE BLIND THE ONE EYED MAN IS KING;)

SMOKE AND MIRRORS:eek:

[paradox]

" Young men: The lowest aim in your life is to become a soldier. The good soldier never tries to distinguish right from wrong. He never thinks; never reasons; he only obeys. If he is ordered to fire on his fellow citizens, on his friends, on his neighbors, on his relatives, he obeys without hesitation. If he is ordered to fire down a crowded street when the poor are clamoring for bread, he obeys and sees the gray hairs of age stained with red and the life tide gushing from the breasts of women, feeling neither remorse nor sympathy. If he is ordered off as a firing squad to execute a hero or benefactor, he fires without hesitation, though he knows the bullet will pierce the noblest heart that ever beat in human breast.
A good soldier is a blind, heartless, soulless, murderous machine. He is not a man. He is not a brute, for brutes only kill in self defense. All that is human in him, all that is divine in him, all that constitutes the man has been sworn away when he took the enlistment roll. His mind, his conscience, aye, his very soul, are in the keeping of his officer.
No man can fall lower than the solder—it is a depth beneath which we cannot go. Keep the boys out of the army. It is hell.
Down with the army and the navy. We don't need killing institutions. We need life-giving institutions."


well said brother!

You just cant help these type of people they have to find out for themselves.

strangly enough what you are trying to explain can sound like many of things, this can cuase problems like I know about this, Ive read the paper watched the news bullshit, I know better than you etc. So if you spark interest of a given topic you are bound to get negative answers from sheep.

You have to just stand up for yourself tell him why have you got these tattoos and ask him why this why that. Hit him with simple questions he cant riggle out off, ridicule him and then throw him out nicely or just say that you need to go out or whatever

[jacob sladder]

Having spent quite a few years in the Army, including being involved in the ongoing shindig in Iraq, I have never heard anyone boasting about killing anyone.
Let alone women and children.
The men and women I have met who have been in action are if anything, a bit quiet and withdrawn about it all. Few if any talk about it, never mind boast about it.

You should have bought the young bloke a pint, and be proud that ordinary members of the public are willing to serve and lay their lives on the line. And for what? They do not have a choice of where they are sent to serve. Or a say in the politics of it all.

If only all of our idiot politicians would follow suit......

[pinkgeranium]

It is incredibly hard when you come up against the sleep walkers.
I feel both very sorry and angry.
If only these young men knew that they are not valued by their leaders.
If only they realised they are cannon fodder, being used by the PTB in a
game of war.

The very sad thing is, when these young men return, when they are injured or
no longer fit for purpose, they will be put on the scrape heap.
The Government/country they are fighting for will leave them high and dry.

Maybe that's when they will wake up.

[hagbard_celine]

Well one unfortunate thing about the forces today and for many years,that they are just a bunch of blinded brainwashed mercenaries doing the dirty work of the elites:eek:

IN THE LAND OF THE BLIND THE ONE EYED MAN IS KING;)

SMOKE AND MIRRORS:eek:


True.

But it's not just the forces is it? Many of us, maybe the majority, are somehow involved in propagating and forwarding the NWO agenda. I'm a hospital porter so like the forces, I work directly for the government. Not only that, but the NHS, like all state health services, is a marketplace for Big Pharma. Other forum members may well work for big corporations, so cooperating with the system too.

I heard Frank Willis speak at Probe. He's a medium and healer who used to be a mercenary and provided security for a Colombian drug baron. He reveled how officials from the US government used to visit his boss and do deals with him.

After the speech I thought. "How can he do that!? How can he work for an organization that sells poisons to people for profit and kills millions and maims even more!?" Then it struck me: That's what I do too!:(:eek:

I believe I can do some good though. I can help so-called "low-status" people be proud of themselves and reject the meaningless Conformist status heirarchy. I'm also trying to set up a workers cooperative and we're going to apply for the contract if we get privatized again. One day the health service will be a much better thing once all the supresed cures are in use, and the Big Pharma dictatorship is gone. When that happens they'll need people with experience to run the hospitals; people like me.

I'm sure it's the same for the forces. There's nothing inhearently immoral about being in the military. I believe we can build a peacful world, but until we have then defense, in the literal non-Orwellian sense, is necessary. To end masacres of women and children, and wars of conquests etc, it's not necessary to leave the army. All you have to do is not do those things! But again, if everyone leaves the army then the skills and experience to build effective defense forces will be lost.

[hagbard_celine]

For anyone who wants to discuss the above issue in more detail; and the role of the military in the post-Illuminati world, There's a thread on it:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26466

[multiversal]

I've met a few people over the years who have been in the army or are currently in the army. One thing I can say about all of them is that they have their "quirks". Some are nicer than others but all of them seem just that little bit different from non-army folk. Now, whether the army attracts slightly disaffected people or whether it turns people in to disaffected personalities is up for debate. Perhaps it's a combination of both...

[rickcard]

Well I was in the Army. A corporal whose Squadron sergeant major was ex Police and ex 22 SAS.

The old sergeant major had been in SAS in the 50s. Left the Army in the usual end of service way. Served 7 years with Police, Reached the rank of sergeant. decided that amalgamation of forces and new schemes for accelerated promotion represented the descent into moral inferiority of police (into the Gestapo they are now). So he quit and rejoined Army and regained SAS selection. He served about 5 years with SAS (his second tour) and then quit (what they call RTU) on another point of principle. It was about killing people when no security situation or state of war existed and a bit tied up with German statutes oif limitation I think.

So he became a Sergeant major in an ordinary unit and had to try to make soldiers of us.

At that time the Defence Cuts meant that around fifty tech corporals were transferring early to the Reserve to pursue civilian occupations (in my case a short serevice followed by decades of the pursuit of justice).

And as I write on my blog when as a rookie constable a DI tried to order me to destroy forensic evidence in a sudden death case ... it was the constitutional training of the ex SAS man that informed me of my position in law and constitution. And it is significant that there was no such training for police officers ! Most of whom think of the Police as being like the Army in which members are bound by oath to obey LAWFUL orders (and disobey unlawful orders)

The only order binding on a constable is a warrant. The Police Chain of Command does not have the authority to order it has the duty to charge independent ministerial officers of the Crown (Constables) with duties.

I hope you will visit my blog http://thanettatters.blogspot.com/2008/07/they-once-laughed-at-christopher.html


We have a nephew now serving in the Army. He is a sergeant in the Army Physical Training Corps.

He was amongst the first troops years ago into Kosovo.

And first on scene aged 18 at war crimes sites.

You would not want to be inside a soldiers head. You are not qualified to criticise their coping mechanisms whether it be withdrawal or machismo.

I echo the sentiments above If you can write thank a teacher if you can write in English thank a soldier.

[marpat]

I've met a few people over the years who have been in the army or are currently in the army. One thing I can say about all of them is that they have their "quirks". Some are nicer than others but all of them seem just that little bit different from non-army folk. Now, whether the army attracts slightly disaffected people or whether it turns people in to disaffected personalities is up for debate. Perhaps it's a combination of both...


You could say anybody has quirks. This is nothing to do with a persons job. That is such a generalised statement.

Well they are going to be different. They have more discipline and are physically fit and healthy. This is not the case for a lot of young people who will be of similar age. A lot of people do not like forces people for nothing more than jealousy. They don't like young men in their towns who have money, chasing the local women.

The bit in bold is pure crap.

[kweli]

Why were my posts deleted? they were on topic and definitely not insulting in any way.. I don't understand. :confused:

[hagbard_celine]

A lot of people do not like forces people for nothing more than jealousy. They don't like young men in their towns who have money, chasing the local women.

A lot of men I know feel envious of the forces I think; they're blatently intimidated by their presence in a pub or club; they glare angrily when all the women cluster round the soldiers. This is down to the enromous public glorification of the military through the media and propaganda. It's an essential part of the State's "information management" strategy. All tyrannies need soldiers. They therefore need people to want to be soldiers.

It's a shame that so many of my peers fall for it, either wanting to join the forces for the glamour and status, or feeling insecure and inferior because they're not in the forces. I'm a hospital porter and I'm very proud of it!:cool::) We have as much right as anyone to feel confident and self-assured, being an essential part of a life-saving team.

I've found that in social situations some soldiers become quite hostile to those of us in the HPS who are proud to be porters because they don't receive from us the reverence and envy they're accustomed to. They can't deal with people who are not "squaddy-struck!"

[hagbard_celine]

if you can write in English thank a soldier.

I'm afraid I don't.

The background to World War II was very different to what official history tells us it was.:eek:

[hagbard_celine]

You would not want to be inside a soldiers head. You are not qualified to criticise their coping mechanisms whether it be withdrawal or machismo.

Fair enough, but bear in mind that soldiers are not the only people who have to deal with frightening and harrowing situations. There are other professions that do too; often without the rewards of status and glory that society copiously pours on the military.

[mikey mikey]

The bit in bold is pure crap.

Actually it's pure gold.

ICU

[monkey]

I dont know or talk to any soldiers but i once worked with a guy who had just returned from IRAQ where he was working as a PRIVATE SECURITY/SOLDIER, providing protection to the thieves or BUSINESSMEN that were out there carving up the country in 2004(ish).

We were just idly chatting, killing time at work and I said "so did you learn to speak any iraqi words out there?" (language is interesting stuff, no?)

His reply was "Nah, If you point your machinegun at them, they soon get out of the fucking way"

Curiously he also showed me several photos on his phone of "blue oyster parties" they had out there where they dress up as GAY BIKERS in leather caps and drawn-on HANDLEBAR MOUSTACHES (I kid you NOT).

Apparently "blue oyster" is a reference to a gay biker bar in the 'police academy' movies. The inference was that it was all "a bit of fun" because anything gay is somehow inherently funny or something in a cheesy 'carry on' film way. I thought it was a bit strange that a bunch of men, working closely together 24/7, eat, sleep, shit together, away from thier wives and families for months, would choose to so heartily enjoy such a theme in thier 'down-time'.

[monkey]

One thing I can say about all of them is that they have their "quirks". Some are nicer than others but all of them seem just that little bit different from non-army folk. Now, whether the army attracts slightly disaffected people or whether it turns people in to disaffected personalities is up for debate. Perhaps it's a combination of both...

The bit in bold is pure crap.

Actually it's pure gold.

Mikey is right and so was multiversal

A lot of people do not like forces people for nothing more than jealousy. They don't like young men in their towns who have money, chasing the local women.

Of course mate, that's what it is. It couldn't possibly be that when a man joins the army he MUST BE 'BROKEN', His will must be blindly subordinate to the chain of command. In training soldiers are 'BROKEN' like horses are 'BROKEN', many are 'TURNED' to cater the desires of the aristocrat officers, such is the culture (cult).

If a man has been through army training , I know that he has been 'BROKEN' and dis-associated with his SELF. This is essential if you are to brainwash someone into becoming a ROBOTIC KILLING MACHINE

I can understand why normal, sane people get uncomfortable when large numbers of BRAINWASHED ROBOTIC KILLING MACHINES who only respect the ultimate authority of force and violence flood into their towns, provoking trouble as some kind of team sport. mind - controlled THUGS who live by the credo of "you dissent and i will silence or destroy you with threat and violence", full of alcohol and god knows what other 'party drugs'

I think people have a right to be concerned.

[kweli]

Now, whether the army attracts slightly disaffected people or whether it turns people in to disaffected personalities is up for debate. Perhaps it's a combination of both...

The bit in bold is pure crap.

Actually it's pure gold.

Agreed Mikey.

I'll attempt to post my opinions yet again after having my posts so rudely & unnecessarily deleted.

I believe that the alamingly high suicide rates of ex - servicemen is a sure and obvious sign that the military turn out seriously disaffected people.

[kweli]

Was your nephew seriously disaffected or did he want to kill himself after his discharge? just curious as you mention these sort of things.

I mention what sort of things? suicide? I've mentioned my bro killed himself but what's that got to do with my last post? It's a fact - suicide rates are extremely high amongst ex- serviceman. I don't understand how that makes you curious about my nephew.

Anyway.. haven't you been warned off replying to me? I know I've been requested not to respond to you.

[hagbard_celine]

Mikey is right and so was multiversal



Of course mate, that's what it is. It couldn't possibly be that when a man joins the army he MUST BE 'BROKEN', His will must be blindly subordinate to the chain of command. In training soldiers are 'BROKEN' like horses are 'BROKEN', many are 'TURNED' to cater the desires of the aristocrat officers, such is the culture (cult).

If a man has been through army training , I know that he has been 'BROKEN' and dis-associated with his SELF. This is essential if you are to brainwash someone into becoming a ROBOTIC KILLING MACHINE

I can understand why normal, sane people get uncomfortable when large numbers of BRAINWASHED ROBOTIC KILLING MACHINES who only respect the ultimate authority of force and violence flood into their towns, provoking trouble as some kind of team sport. mind - controlled THUGS who live by the credo of "you dissent and i will silence or destroy you with threat and violence", full of alcohol and god knows what other 'party drugs'

I think people have a right to be concerned.

I've found that the military are generally not too badly-bahaved when they're out on the town. They're boisterous, but civilized. In general they're less trouble than the average Eastenders-watching, FHM-reading Conformatus.

The most ill-mannered drunken lout I've ever seen in town was actually a fellow member of the HPS!:eek:

The only way I experience any trouble from military guys is not when I'm speaking out against the war or telling them how 9/11 was an inside job; it is because I am not effected by them. As I said above, that's what some of them can't stand: indifference. They hate it when people are not in awe of their status. They desperately need people to be "squaddie struck", whether in a positive way or a negative way. They are conditioned by propaganda to believe that they are a superior breed and expect everyone else to show them reverence and envy them.

[jacob sladder]

I rarely speak about my time in the forces, in fact I've spoken about it more on these forums, than I have among friends and family.
I've met some total idiots in the services - but have also met plenty more in civilian life as well!!
:(

[manns66]

Crusie, how can they be traitors? a traitor is someone who has turned against their country so can you explain how any service person serving their country is a traitor? it is illogical. You are actually the traitor. You are against everything your country stands for, you hate your country, the very country that allows you to have freebasing beliefs, and you hate the people who have volunteered to defends your nations rights. Do you hate the ones who are trying every day to stop bomb attack in Britain and save people lives? perhaps you think this is just a hoax?

Maybe you would like to comment about when the military deliver relief aid to disaster areas, such as in the wake of the Tsunami?

Why should I give my job up when I believe I am doing no wrong? Every action I undertake will have to be in accordance with UK law so I cannot be classed as a criminal and I am definitely not mind controlled. And why would I expect sympathy from you. I don't need any and don't expect any. Do you think I would look to you for sympathy when I think your a wanker. Maybe you should get a job and stop living of benefits.

I like how you comment on my posts. I recall a previous one your responses to my post was to say 'look this up' and that was it. You gave no case for what you think and no original thinking, and no justification for your belief, which makes me think you are not a person with your own mind. You just posts links. You have a bad habit for this so it really smacks of hypocracy when you call people ignorant.

Lets get this clear about service people. Most of them are good decent people doing their job. Unfortunately some are bigotted, aggressive morons who enjoy the violent stuff, stuff that 99% don't really wish to come across. In any job there will be idiots who love to intimidate and the forces do have such people, although they are generally unpopular people. How many people out there have had relatives in the forces, who have served and sometimes died in service of their country? were they mindless robots murdering for the state? do you dishonour their memories with comments like that of cruise4?

People may wish to believe that we are mind controlled and have no ideas of our own but unless you personally know a lot of people to base this idea on then it's just weak, biased, blind speculation. The fact is that it is human nature to be violent and people need defending against possible threats. Yes people may say that invading Iraq is not defending people here, but we all know that is about saving face for the US so they don't look like they are on their own. Do any of you think that service people believe we are out there to rescue the Iraqis and Afghans? do you think we don't have opinions?

Personally I don't care if you hate me for my job, I will not abandon it because some conspiracy theorists think it is immoral. Some of these critics are happy to sit in the dole queues getting handouts from the government they so freely admit to hating, getting paid out of my taxes to sit at home and think about how evil the world is. The world isn't evil, the hearts of people are. As a member of the forces I am used to being resented by the civilian population as many hate successful people with good jobs, local men hate the idea of healthy, fit men with money coming and taking the local woman away. The fact is I don't care if you little theories want to make me out to be some nasty robot. I know in my heart what I am and it will not be up to a bunch of conspiracy theorists to be the judge of my lifes successes and failures.

This is where I put my flag up and say this is my job. You may comment as you like but I will not get involved in some childish bickering about who is moral or immoral.

Perhaps people like cruise4 should piss off to a country that they can appreciate, one with less CCTV and spying, perhaps Pakistian or Chile. If you hate your country then you should go somewhere else where you can maybe be something more than a subversive traitor, a person who has pledged to make yourself an enemy of the country where you have protected rights. Probably no free government handouts in those countries for you!!!!

What he said.

[armoured_amazon]

Sometimes it makes me cry that the military is what some people choose for their life. I look at my younger brothers and I think that men, BOYS, younger than them, go off to war zones every day, fighting and dying for something that is an illusion.

[tracker]

well.. to cut a long story short, On Thursday night I had the misfortune of meeting one VERY VERY brainwashed individual. He was meeting my friend who I was out in manchester with and came back to my flat. I only really started talking to him when he was back at mine, and NOTHING could have prepared me for his warped views.

He is home from Iraq, and can not WAIT to get back.
I think the most shocking piece of unhumane garbage that came out of his mouth was that he sees woman and children die over there, and he loves it. he "hates" them.
This really sickened me. I feel I have some kind of duty to report this realistic picture of the type of people "fighting for us" to the general public. It certainly was not pretty. :(

There was no reasoning with this conditioned meat head, HE WAS RIGHT. AND THAT WAS IT.

He also had tattoos such as "pride of britain" on his arm... says it all really. Heavily brainwashed and very fucking dangerous because of his views and power trip seeking.

I 'm surprised I didn't chuck him out because he made me SO angry that he would not open his mind even slightly to possibilities that wern't his reality.
But strangely i felt really sorry for him too, and felt that there was something I could learn something from our random meeting..

wait until one day if some unlucky women loves him and he has his own children .
one day ?
he will be looking at his child in their eyes

and suddenly


every child and parent he helped kill will suddenly flash back in his face .
and then he will realise , he is a sadistic child murderer

and no justification like ?
i was taking orders
or
i was doing my job

will take away the pain of the truth that he had a chioce , and he took it on his own free will and loved it too .

he will then suffer post traumatic stress and kill him self .

quite a few do .
:cool:

[cruise4]

"What he said"

Are you insane? These people have protected the criminal scum that have turned our country into a toilet. Defend my nations rights? To go round the world killing for profit and securing drug crops? If the army was any good and doing it's job these scum would have been in jail decades ago. That's why they are traitors and collaborators. Let alone the false flag terrorism.

[tracker]

"What he said"

Are you insane? These people have protected the criminal scum that have turned our country into a toilet. Defend my nations rights? To go round the world killing for profit and securing drug crops? If the army was any good and doing it's job these scum would have been in jail decades ago. That's why they are traitors and collaborators. Let alone the false flag terrorism.


criminal scum ?
kids ?
women with kids ?

need air raidbombing campains for a decade because they protect criminals ?

ha !
maybe he doesnt know his own bosses connections who create the market
protect the market
make the guns
allow it to get into the people that they trained as freedom fighters
set them up

and then he goes their to kill them
women and children in the proccess .

but ? who cares ?

we are insane ?

what ever !:confused:

[tracker]

criminal scum ?
kids ?
women with kids ?

need air raidbombing campains for a decade because they protect criminals ?

ha !
maybe he doesnt know his own bosses connections who create the market
protect the market
make the guns
allow it to get into the people that they trained as freedom fighters
set them up

and then he goes their to kill them
women and children in the proccess .

but ? who cares ?

we are insane ?

what ever !:confused:


as i said

one fine day
he will look into his own childs eyes

feel that magic

then it will all come back to him on








how insane we are ?:eek:

[hagbard_celine]

Sometimes it makes me cry that the military is what some people choose for their life. I look at my younger brothers and I think that men, BOYS, younger than them, go off to war zones every day, fighting and dying for something that is an illusion.

And it's an illusion that is bolstered up by so much hype and spin! It's nothing new either. Military service has always been glamourized and glorified throughout history. Some of the earliest motion pictures were war movies.

[hagbard_celine]

every child and parent he helped kill will suddenly flash back in his face .
and then he will realise , he is a sadistic child murderer

and no justification like ?
i was taking orders
or
i was doing my job

:cool:

I agree that cop-outs like "I was just doing my job" are not valid, but you're being as bit harsh there. I know how many innocents get killed in wars, but that doesn't make the perpetrators "sadistic", just misguided.

Then again, some of them might be sadistic, but we can't generalize.

It's also worth bearing in mind that none of us are lily-white in this. Wars get funded by the tax we pay. Many of us do jobs that help the New World Order agenda. I work for Big Pharma! I have to admit it! I can't get out of that!:(

[hagbard_celine]

This is interesting:

http://msn.careerbuilder.com/custom/msn/careeradvice/viewarticle.aspx?articleid=1634&SiteId=cbmsnhp41634&sc_extcmp=JS_1634_home1&GT1=23000&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=654d9194405a46a58a19f78c83c59033-275647399-J2-5

It's a new study that supports the statisitcs I refer to earlier in this thread from the American and Canadian Almanac. I already knew that fighting in wartime was not THE most dangerous, but must say I was surpirsed that it didn't even make the Top 10!:eek::D

[tjohn]

Crusie, how can they be traitors? a traitor is someone who has turned against their country so can you explain how any service person serving their country is a traitor?
1) First of all, define "country" (if you cannot do this, your argument is invalid)

2) Are the military protecting us?
3) If so, then from what?

[tjohn]

First of all, define "country" (if you cannot do this your argument is invalid)

2) Are the military protecting us?
3) If so, then from what?

A coward is not so much someone who is afraid but is someone who kills defensless people! Are the military really protecting us?