The karmic need for the NWO/dark brotherhood

[drael]

Okay, some people ascribe to the veiw that everything in our world is there for a reason. That for either personal, or global growth and evolution, bad things happen. This is encapsulated in the concept of karma.

Now not everyone may agree here, but isnt the NWO/dark brotherhood therefor here for our growth? If they didnt exist, at the very least, we wouldnt have to develop strategies to deal with them (which would make us always vulnerable to any similar groups). They also teach us the value of those things values/virtues opposed to their regime (for example freedom, free-thinking and equality)..

What do you guys think?

[drael]

I thought this would stimulate lots of discussion...oh well merry christmas and happy new year to you all :)

[titurel]

We need George Skull and Bones Bush as much as a healthy liver needs cancer.

[drael]

But its a good example at least of what not to be, no?

And if we didnt have them, there would always exist the possibility that such evil people would come along. Without the experience of having had them, we would always be vulnerable to being dominated and controlled...

[titurel]

We already are being dominated and controlled by them...

[drael]

Well lets use your liver example. Say weve had never had any liver cancer before. Then suddenly, one day, it shows up. Because we never had it before, wed have to start all the medical research/treatments from scratch.

However, because we actually do have liver cancer, weve been able to develop treatments, and do research. In the case of extreme evil, there has always existed, and always will exist the possibility of the NWO. Thus having them allows us to develop strategies, and when we get rid of them, develop preventions...

[titurel]

But this thread is not about developing strategy as far as I can see... it's more about the lower consciousness not wanting to let go of its oppressor. Its the Stokholm Syndrome...

[drael]

Huh? no im happy to let go of the oppressor. :confused:

Dont you think everything in the universe has a purpose? or is it all just random? No you beleive we are here to learn, and that the things that happen to us teach us? (or if not, whats your theory on why we are here..?)

No this thread isnt about strategy, but we could start one if you like. This is more the question of do we need to have had the NWO at some point, in order to develop strategy?

Lower conciousness? i dont think the egoism of this statement is a quality of higher conciousness personally....Humility is a virtue you know...Im sure the NWO is filled with this sort of sentiment (lower conciousness etc)

[titurel]

It's a very hypothetical question since we have no choice. What is, already is. We are now waking up and have to spread the word and expose the lies and hypocrisy of the elite before it's too late. There already isn't much time left. A global financial crash is just round the corner. The introduction of an Orwellian, Big Brother, police state with concentration camps will accelerate, as the masses begin the uprising. It's a spiritual battle in which many will not survive...

[drael]

It's a very hypothetical question since we have no choice. What is, already is....

There is a kind of moral or philosophical point to it though. Is evil nessasary at certain points of spiritual development?
There are certain philosophies that agree. I wondered what peoples take on this was...Of course its not exactly the most practical thing to talk about, after all we do have to deal with this stuff either way...

We are now waking up and have to spread the word and expose the lies and hypocrisy of the elite before it's too late. There already isn't much time left. A global financial crash is just round the corner. The introduction of an Orwellian, Big Brother, police state with concentration camps will accelerate, as the masses begin the uprising. It's a spiritual battle in which many will not survive...

Well its certainly going to heat up. Many basic mind controls need to be broken (the expert culture, news, schooling, language etc). It remains to be seem, how the NWO will react to peoples freedom. The illusion of freedom serves a purpose to enslave us, totalitarianism will cause more to rebel. What likely will happen is that lies will be spread about the free, and they will be made hated enemies of the mainstream. (This is already be happening IMO, though only to a small degree, the witch hunts havent started yet)..

[titurel]

There is a kind of moral or philosophical point to it though. Is evil nessasary at certain points of spiritual development?
There are certain philosophies that agree. I wondered what peoples take on this was...Of course its not exactly the most practical thing to talk about, after all we do have to deal with this stuff either way...
Philosophy can be a wank... I studied philosophy and you could argue a chair is really a table!

[drael]

Philosophy can be a wank... I studied philosophy and you could argue a chair is really a table!


Just goes to show how subjective everything is, and how unknown our world really is. People will and do argue/beleive things like that all the time. In fact 99% of all peoples beleifs can probably be put in the catergory of wank...

Take a beleif in the devil.. cant be proven in any way, but some people buy it 100% and try and convince others...

at least philosophy uses logic! thats more than can be said of most peoples veiws...

We dont know anything, thats what philosophy and religion and science taught me...

[titurel]

Just goes to show how subjective everything is, and how unknown our world really is. People will and do argue/beleive things like that all the time. In fact 99% of all peoples beleifs can probably be put in the catergory of wank...

Take a beleif in the devil.. cant be proven in any way, but some people buy it 100% and try and convince others...

at least philosophy uses logic! thats more than can be said of most peoples veiws...

We dont know anything, thats what philosophy and religion and science taught me...
Logic without wisdom leads to spiritual blindness. In the face of the challenges ahead, the terrible demon of trivial pursuits shows up and tries to distract us with trivial philosophical intellectual logical tasks, such as removing a mountain of sand from one side of the place to the other with a pair of tweezers!

[drael]

Logic without wisdom leads to spiritual blindness.

Agreed, both are nessasary..

In the face of the challenges ahead, the terrible demon of trivial pursuits shows up and tries to distract us with trivial philosophical intellectual logical tasks, such as removing a mountain of sand from one side of the place to the other with a pair of tweezers!

Well you dont have to participate in anything you consinder trivial! I personally dont consider this matter trivial, spiritually or philosophically. But each to their own...

[esse]

Dont you think everything in the universe has a purpose? or is it all just random? No you beleive we are here to learn, and that the things that happen to us teach us? (or if not, whats your theory on why we are here..?)


While I think this is a good question, fascinating and will much enjoy participating in the ensuing debate - it is as posted, one we cannot answer, one we have no choice over - etc, the fact that we are here in this prison, that we don't know why or where it started, and have so many unanswered questions as to the nature of all this.
I do think in that way the question of Destiny, is there purpose to everything is one of metaphysics, and in that way can be a distraction, perhaps something to ponder but not to obsession - than it does become like sifting a mountain of sand with a pair of tweezers. I imagine when one is enlightened, these things are clear - until then we exist in confusion.
Still, what makes this topic fascinating for me is the recent tidal wave of belief after movies like "The Secret" & Bloody "What the Bleep" (now there's some wank!) sweeping the Western Mindset with it's insistence that we create everything and can be perfect masters of our Destiny and Manifest our every greedy wish if only we meditate and think positive.
Firstly I will say that any new fashionable trend in Metaphysical thinking that gathers this much steam in the mainstream this quickly I find highly questionable given the level of corruption and manipulation operating on this planet. Secondly I would point out that this little perspective and belief system is incredibly wish-fullfilling and materialistic - and hence very appealing to our selfish minds. I think it leaves very little room for any real compassion - as under it we obtain the kind of ultra-dismissive attitude which says, why feel for X in X's situation when he's creating it? Hey, why are you creating that man?
If meditation manifests everything we want, why then does the Dalai Lama not manifest a free Tibet? Is everything perfect? I have tried hard, but can't help seeing injustice all over the place - I'm not saying I have the answers, but this how it seems from where I sit.
I do think we also have the issue of Karma or Destiny - to contend with here. If we are living in a Illusion, a beginningless illusion - maya, samsara as the buddhists believe, karma exists only within that illusion, relatively. The perfection of which you speak, is the realization that it is an illusion, that the true nature, our real substance is sublime, untouchable, beyond harm - so in that the tragedies on this planet are not solid, very temporary and have no inherent existence. While I do find Buddhist philosophy very profound, I still struggle with the idea of Karma - past lives, etc - I mean, I have no memory or insight into such things, but it does seem that people who do very bad things do not reap the result of their actions but too often get away with it - and vice versa, good people do get badly done over mistreated, etc. Perhaps there is some perfect measured out justice, but answer me this - if we are all infinite sublime energy than what in God's name could have ever made us deserving of incurring all of this in the first place?
If we are innocence itself - sublime substance, oneness, where is the sin? This fall from grace, etc, Karma? Though in Buddhist philosophy Karma is described as only existing relatively - within the illusion, and having no inherent existence like ourselves and everything else we perceive here. So there I can't fault it - though the concept itself - is there really some principle metering out reward and punishment for things we can't even remember doing in other lives (we similarly never had any control over the cause and conditions of?) Sometimes I simply think Karma is an idea - one which gets people to think twice about doing nasty things for fear of it coming back, a useful tool for making smaller minded people act better when they are not yet aware enough of the fact that we are all one and that what hurts one hurts all - to not need this. I think we are all one and in this way there is cause and effect, Karma, it may not be so direct as what you did in a past life or this life coming back to you the ego entity, but it does effect us all. So be nice!
Do unto others and so forth. And when people are having a hard time, don't tell them they should stop creating it and be harsh and judgmental, but rather be kind and understanding maybe give them some tea and sympathy. I do believe in kindness. This is the perfection we can control - the choice we have to live perfect lives, to embody our art, our beauty, our dreams rather than someone else's nightmare.

[drael]

Still, what makes this topic fascinating for me is the recent tidal wave of belief after movies like "The Secret" & Bloody "What the Bleep" (now there's some wank!) sweeping the Western Mindset with it's insistence that we create everything and can be perfect masters of our Destiny and Manifest our every greedy wish if only we meditate and think positive.

This is a corruption of the ancient teachings of mysticism and magick. By leaving many very important details out, they give the impression manifestation can be a selfish vehicle. I personally was pissed off by the secret for being so misleading. It seems likely these messages are being pushed by the NWO to me...

If meditation manifests everything we want, why then does the Dalai Lama not manifest a free Tibet? Is everything perfect? I have tried hard, but can't help seeing injustice all over the place

Well its hard to answer that in a short way. But there are other principles in magick/manifestation, like freedom from desire. The dalai lama wants a free tibet, like you want a world free of suffering. This desire creates a fear that you cant manifest the thing, that it will remain the same, and that fear prevents it. Its deep feelings and attitudes that create, over which most people have little control. A serious study and practice of magick helps, but even still, pure manifestation is extremely hard to attain (and when you acheive it, it cannot serve any desire).
Its so offensive to see this sold as a short cut to money etc, when actually it is no such thing...

I mean, I have no memory or insight into such things, but it does seem that people who do very bad things do not reap the result of their actions but too often get away with it - and vice versa, good people do get badly done over mistreated, etc. Perhaps there is some perfect measured out justice, but answer me this - if we are all infinite sublime energy than what in God's name could have ever made us deserving of incurring all of this in the first place?


Buddhism would say this is dharma, the product of past lives. It does seem a little more complex than this. I wonder if we choose this life of suffering out of boredom, so we can experience the illusion of seperation and indepedance. It may seem far fetched, but imagine spending eternity knowing everything, no surprises and having no ability to make mistakes...

[lydia78]

Okay, some people ascribe to the veiw that everything in our world is there for a reason. That for either personal, or global growth and evolution, bad things happen. This is encapsulated in the concept of karma.

Now not everyone may agree here, but isnt the NWO/dark brotherhood therefor here for our growth? If they didnt exist, at the very least, we wouldnt have to develop strategies to deal with them (which would make us always vulnerable to any similar groups). They also teach us the value of those things values/virtues opposed to their regime (for example freedom, free-thinking and equality)..

What do you guys think?

That's an interesting question drael.
We live in a paradox however whether humanity really needed the paradox to begin with will never be known. Does anyone really know the true nature of a humanity beyond our conditioning? No, not really. Many authors such as Donald walsh and the guys from the 'disappearence of the universe' book, perceive our lives as god experiencing itself in matter, they reason that The creative force only knew perfection, the only way to experience that perfection was to create duality so it may experince itself.....to learn from itself (us and all life on earth) at various levels of consciousness and awareness.

This theory holds a particle of truth im sure, but the bottom line in mho is the problem of fear, humanity is to afraid to own its true power hence why we 'give it over' to the NWO, we created them through not taking responsibilty for our own lives, by being infantile and creating a parental government who has transformed in to the wicked step mother of all time.

Question is, will we take back our power before its too late?

[esse]

That's an interesting question drael.

Agreed

the only way to experience that perfection was to create duality so it may experince itself.....to learn from itself (us and all life on earth) at various levels of consciousness and awareness.

Aah, but is there anything to learn? Maybe it's we who search for meaning and can't stand for there to be none, but what is meaning when we're egoless? Not advocating nihilism, just trying to question our self attatched notions. Tho' I don't know what I'm talking about :)

This is a corruption of the ancient teachings of mysticism and magick. By leaving many very important details out, they give the impression manifestation can be a selfish vehicle. I personally was pissed off by the secret for being so misleading. It seems likely these messages are being pushed by the NWO to me...

Totally agree there, I do feel these ideas (new age) are being heavily pushed, and despair at the great number of people I know who are more open than the mass getting sooooo sucked in by them. Reminds me of other popular new age waves we've experienced, like The Celestine Prophecy thing - if there were no truth within the snag there wouldn't be any attraction, but the truth is distorted and used to come to faulty conclusions - Materialism, etc.

Again I guess we need to keep Relative and Absolute seperate, on a relative level we are individuals experiencing, our lives matter, a simple act of kindness from a loved one or stranger can make the whole world different - In this there is meaning. Is the picture really any bigger? We're all in it together - I think we forget that, this is what any tribal people know - as they must survive together. We live in such division now -

This theory holds a particle of truth im sure, but the bottom line in mho is the problem of fear, humanity is to afraid to own its true power hence why we 'give it over' to the NWO, we created them through not taking responsibilty for our own lives, by being infantile and creating a parental government who has transformed in to the wicked step mother of all time.

I don't know if we created them - but it is we who have not yet stopped them. Perhaps we were kidnapped from another planet and don't remember our real history, perhaps we are part creations, genetically manipulated products of the Reptilians - There is a lot of sore thumbs sticking out when you look at our history - 10's of thousands of years of missing fossil evidence for our species to say the least "missing link" Hmmmmm.... But I agree that we need to mature, we need to take action in the relative and perhaps find some way to free ourselves. There are a lot of things we've been engaging in that I don't think our really our nature. What is our nature? To war and steal and fight for power endlessly - Is this a human trait of one we've been mostly manipulated into? Was there a different way somewhere in our history? Either way we need to develop into wise mature beings - Acting in a way to bring benefit to all - are Reptilians and the Illuminati capable of this? Nature gives us many examples of predatory behaviour - we too act in this way. Does a fish ask God why the sharks hunt him?

[solve_et_coagula]

THE GREAT UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD

There is on earth a lodge of learned men who meet once a year to discuss various scientific questions. These initiates know about the earth - its past and its present - much more than contemporary scientists, who represent the official sciences. But concerning the future of the earth even these men of the lodge know nothing positive and they make assumptions about it.

Besides this lodge of initiates on earth, there is on the sun another lodge of great Initiates who know positively not only the past and present of our planet but also its future.

Both lodges are only organs of that great universal organism of perfected, highly advanced beings who form the Great Universal Brotherhood.

These perfected beings are much more advanced than even the greatest men of genius on earth, because they emerged much earlier from the Primal Source. They all have followed a particular path of development, under the guidance of the Divine Spirit, to that degree of advancement which they have attained at present.

When we speak of the Great Universal Brotherhood, we mean that hierarchy of intelligent beings who have completed their evolution millions and billions of years ago and who now direct the entire cosmos. They direct it because they themselves have participated in its creation under the guidance of the Divine Spirit.

When we consider how wisely the entire universe is constructed, with all its galaxies, and with all its innumerable suns and planets, or if we look only at the mechanical and technical perfection with which the earth is constructed, we might comprehend the power of mind and spirit those creative geniuses had who realized the Divine plan of the universe.

These beings range in a hierarchical order according to the extent of their knowledge and development and according to the service they perform. They are known by the following names: seraphim - brothers of love; cherubim - brothers of harmony; thrones - brothers of will; dominions - brothers of wisdom and joy; mights - brothers of movement and growth; powers - brothers of external form and art; principalities - brothers of time, condition and measure; archangels - brothers of fire and warmth; angels - bearers of life and vegetation. The last, the tenth rank, will be occupied by the advanced human souls.

All of these together represent the great Cosmic Man.

The activity of all those beings is so harmoniously distributed that each one knows when, how and what to do. They direct the functions of the great universal organism which includes within itself all solar systems.

Our understanding is that there are three types of solar systems. The first - the organs of the starry universes - forms the material, the physical world, made from the densest matter, though it has various degrees of density. The second is made from finer substance, the substance of the spiritual world, and is part of the angelic world.The third type of solar systems, in its totality, forms the divine world and is made out of the finest and most superior substance.

Heaven, spoken of in the Sacred Scriptures, is not that blue vault over our heads behind which universal space disappears and in which, during the night, stars shine brightly.

Heaven is organized by higher beings, by great souls, and therefore it is great in its activity. The angels who inhabit heaven are great souls who constantly send their light to the whole world. The energy of their mighty thought is distributed throughout the entire cosmos and as a collective power moves everything in the world.

Do not think that the angels are immaterial beings, something like spectral phantoms. They are beings whose bodies are highly organized, formed from pure radiant substance. An angel can control his body in such a way that it can become visible and invisible. He can freely travel through boundless space with a speed greater than that of light; he can roam through solar systems and starry universes.

The angels also are at different stages of development but generally they are divided into two great Kingdoms. Those of the higher kingdom rarely descend to the earth, but those of the lower one come often to help in the spiritual upliftment of mankind. These great brothers of man came forth from the human race, but followed their path of evolution billions of years before man, under more favourable conditions which they used wisely.

And if the life of humanity advances according to plan, if cultures flourish on earth with their sciences, religions, and arts, if men have an eternal aspiration toward development and perfection, it is because these intelligent beings, who are closely connected with mankind, constantly work and care for them. Love, joy and life flow from the angels' hearts. And thanks to their inspiration, men live and strive. The angels wish for humanity to attain the light which they have, the freedom which they enjoy. They desireto teach men to live according to the great laws by which they live. They apply the most intelligent laws in the world. They live the purest and the most sublime life, a life of absolute unselfishness.

In their great self-abnegation, these loving servants of God come down to earth in human form to help people. In one form or another they constantly send their ambassadors to the earth. All men of genius, all great people, saints, adepts, all men of science, writers, statesmen who promote the advancement of humanity in one or another direction - all of these are servants of the Great Universal Brotherhood. It chooses the most advanced souls from among humanity and prepares them for spiritual work among their brothers. Among contemporary humanity there are persons who have finer spiritual powers, who have finer constitution. They are distinguished by their highly organized and pliant bodies because they live an absolutely pure and saintly life. It is their extraordinary development which makes them suitable to be spiritual helpers of humanity. The most highly advanced among them completed their evolution on the earth and possess immense knowledge. They have extensive knowledge of the positive, absolute, Divine science which has existed since the creation of the universe. Many of them live on earth for thousands of years. Having passed through the process of resurrection, neither death nor rebirth exists for them. These men, called "Sons of God", within whose spirits and souls God lives, and who are connected with the entire rational world, with all advanced beings in all solar systems, are those great souls, Masters of humanity, who have attained the highest manifestation of thought and deed, in every field. They are those mighty spirits who, openly or secretly, inspire humanity to advance. You will discover these brothers behind every spiritual activity on earth, behind every spiritual manifestation; they are behind every great man, every great poet, musician or painter.

In order that a man of genius may appear on the earth, it is necessary that thousands of souls of genius be united to express themselves through him.

In order that a Master may appear, it is necessary that all intelligent souls be united in him.

What is Christ? Christ is a collective spirit. He is the totality of all Sons of God from whose souls and hearts flow love and life. All Sons of God united into one, all intelligent souls who live in divine oneness - that is Christ. In this sense He is the head of the Great Universal Brotherhood.

And the star, mentioned in the Gospel and which appeared at Christ's birth, was something living: it was a unity of living beings descending from the heights to proclaim the coming of Christ. But only the three wise men from the East, great initiates, saw and knew the star. And these three wise men were also servants of the Great Universal Brotherhood.

Therefore, remember: the only great Community which exists at present in the world, is the Great Universal Brotherhood.

Those members of the Great Universal Brotherhood, who guide the development of humanity and lead it toward a bright future, do not form any society or organization visible to men. They constitute a living unity, a rational community, which exists beyond the corrupted conditions among which men live.And therefore it is ridiculous to say that the headquarters of that brotherhood is here or there, in this or that country.

All those great Brothers who work in the spiritual spheres of earth belong to seven hierarchies, seven categories. Some of them belong to Love and are called the "Brothers of Love". Others belong to Wisdom and are called "Brothers of Wisdom". They inspire the sciences and arts and bring knowledge to humanity. Others are called "Brothers of Truth". They bring freedom to men's minds and hearts. They introduce that freedom which makes the human spirit, the human soul, the human mind and heart, free - free in the full sense of the word. Still others are called "Brothers of Justice" and they bring righteousness to humanity and have at their disposal those invisible blessings which contemporary men need. Some are called "Brothers of Virtue", and others, "Brothers of Beauty", and at last come those who have the name of "Jehovists".

However, those are not the real names of these brothers. I dare not pronounce the real ones for they are sacred.

These Brothers are not ordinary, as people might assume. Every one of them can take the earth in his hand and throw it like a ball in space! And they can do this because behind them is something that is still mightier, more sublime, which they serve.

And if some men think that they can defy these Brothers, this reveals that they do not understand the profound meaning which inheres in the expression, "White Brother". If it is a question of force, these Brothers have at their disposal the mightiest force. They know the functions of the human brain so well that in one day they could cause all of humanity to fall asleep. What are the most powerful contemporary weapons before the power of these great Brothers? But they do not want to use force - they allow men to experience things for themselves, even at the price of thousands of sufferings because only suffering can ennoble and correct humanity. And one day men will come to know that in the world there is a great, just government, the citizens of which - the sons of God - are the wisest beings, who live according to God's laws and do His will. Not a nation will remain which has not experienced the power and the might of this just government.

But if today men do not follow the right path, the reason is that, counterbalancing the Great White Brotherhood, another lodge of intelligent beings works, beings who do not understand the deep meaning of life and have a diametrically opposite comprehension of it. They constitute the so-called Black Brotherhood. The Black Brotherhood is a hierarchy of beings who have various ranks according to the degree of their intelligence. In order to give you a clearer concept of their functioning, I shall say that while the White Brotherhood works in the branches and the blossoms of life, with methods pertaining to them, the Black Brotherhood works in the roots of life. While the White Brotherhood works in the head and breast of the cosmic man, the Black Brotherhood works in the stomach, the liver and the intestines. Therefore, the White Brotherhood is connected with the positive forces, with the good, and the Black Brotherhood with the negative forces, with evil in the broadest sense of the word. But at present both forces are necessary for the manifestation of life. Their services are strictly defined.

Besides these two schools, there is a third one - the school of the Great Masters who are from a higher hierarchy and direct the activities of the first two. They use the methods of both for their great aims but belong neither to the one nor to the other of the schools. They are those Great Masters of the Universal Brotherhood who guide the entire cosmos and who, after the completion of each evolution, create new waves of evolution according to another plan and another rhythm.

Under the guidance of their mighty spirit, those advanced spirits who created the solar systems, including our own, at one time descended from the highest peaks of creation They also created and organized the primal "cosmic" earth - what was once "paradise". On that "cosmic earth" still live those perfected forefathers of men who completed their evolution. They are the great ancestors of humanity.

Those creators of the past, those great ancestors still descend to our earth. And they will transform it into a paradise. Together with them will come those 144,000 souls spoken of in Revelation and among them there will be representatives of all past and present nations. All saints, adepts and Masters from time immemorial will come. Their mighty spirit will direct all awakened souls throughout the earth and all of these together will establish perfect order and harmony in the world. After they finish their task, they will withdraw and will leave humanity to live and work under the new conditions. Thus, the communication between the visible and the invisible worlds will be restored.

This is the way in which the Great Universal Brotherhood has worked, works now, and will work in the world.

And it will work until the one Love, the one Wisdom and the one Truth envelop all of creation.

Then every living thing will praise God in sacred peace and harmony.

Peter Deunov (Beinsa Douno) was the Master of Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov in Bulgaria

http://www.beinsadouno.org

[cruise4]

Sums it up nicely esse. Is there anywhere left to go. I seem to be conspiratored out, with no progress really. The only known workable solution is to fight them... the old fashioned way. I have seen NO EVIDENCE for anything else, albeit the 'anything else' is much talked about.

[tejas]

karma is evil, what do we have to learn?

[zero1]

karma is evil, what do we have to learn?

I don't believe you would make that statement if you had an accute sense of divine justice.

Karma is simply the rule of Creation that everything balances out eventually.

The real question is not what do we have to learn, because we surely have everything to learn, but rather why don't we already know? ;)

[tejas]

I don't believe you would make that statement if you had an accute sense of divine justice.

Karma is simply the rule of Creation that everything balances out eventually.

The real question is not what do we have to learn, because we surely have everything to learn, but rather why don't we already know? ;)

Justice? JUSTICE? Karma is NOT justice, infact it is a very simple get out clause for someone who hasnt really thought about cause and effect or someone who doesnt understand why humans do the thingd they do. Karma is a trap, it is further from justice then god sending all the 'bad' people to hell.

http://www.pastiche.org/~cmiller/pix/dilbert-karma.gif