"The Secret" on Oprah....

[thirdwave]

I'm not sure who or who has not seen the DVD "The Secret" but it has been very popular and many like my self felt it was confirmation of what they have always felt anyway..... a great way of getting the point through to people.

http://www.thesecret.tv/home.html


anyway, I come across these videos from the Oprah W show with the makers of "The Secret" on the show, thought some might be interested to see them...




http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4919683563937875202&q=the+secret%2C+oprah

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8220219513503861675&q=the+secret%2C+oprah

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8500083246711414628&q=the+secret%2C+oprah

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=96049710676417276&q=the+secret%2C+oprah

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4530899843303995587&q=the+secret%2C+oprah

[friendsinthesky]

What is the fasination with Oprah on this forum, Oprah manipulates media on her program or did you already know this?

[thirdwave]

I very rarely watch her .... though as far as i know she seems quite an up front person from what I'v seen.... I just fully believe in "The Secret" and these links have the makers talk more about it....

I think its great she has given the DVD this promotion.

[tru3]

What is the fasination with Oprah on this forum, Oprah manipulates media on her program or did you already know this?

it's a misdirection, imo.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=327198201306054038&q=oprah+daily+show


the court jester is often the wisest person in the kindgom...

[thirdwave]

it's a misdirection, imo.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=327198201306054038&q=oprah+daily+show


the court jester is often the wisest person in the kindgom...



I think the only thing that can misdirect someone is ones self.

[terry wogan]

I think the only thing that can misdirect someone is ones self.

I think you're wrong.

[thirdwave]

I think you're wrong.

thinking is wonderful!! :D

[jimijams]

it's a misdirection, imo.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=327198201306054038&q=oprah+daily+show


the court jester is often the wisest person in the kindgom...
Thanks tru3, Jon Stewart is brilliant, have you seen the one on question marks? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1232251620809275724&q=jon+stewart+daily+show+question+mark

[purple is a fruit]

That was bloody funny Jimijams!

[tru3]

Thanks tru3, Jon Stewart is brilliant, have you seen the one on question marks? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1232251620809275724&q=jon+stewart+daily+show+question+mark


he and colbert are like this comedic hive mind. lolol they are so in sync. i just like to watch 'em trade licks at the end of the show every night.

timing is everything, no? :)

[Anders Lindman]

I'm impressed by Oprah having the guts to make a show about The Secret. The Oprah Show reaches a huge audience, and this makes people aware of the possibility that there maybe is something like a law of attraction. I think that's great stuff.

[tru3]

I'm impressed by Oprah having the guts to make a show about The Secret. The Oprah Show reaches a huge audience, and this makes people aware of the possibility that there maybe is something like a law of attraction. I think that's great stuff.

since i moved to chicago, in 1985, i've seen oprah get the crap kicked out of her over the years. she's paid her dues. what i was suggesting was that her hard-won influence is now being used as a smokescreen for larger issues. it's endemic to the whole cancer-ridden media in the u.s. we'll just talk about what oprah talks about so we can avoid dealing with threatening topics. if it isn't her, it's some runaway bride. and people eat it up.

so hopefully, you're right, anders. people will eat this up too, maybe. maybe they'll focus on the secret, actually apply it, and not allow themselves to get distracted by the latest headline about anna nicole.

i don't mean to be a pessimist, honestly. it's just i've been around americans all my life, and we have reeeeeeally short attention spans! :o

[jimijams]

I'm impressed by Oprah having the guts to make a show about The Secret. The Oprah Show reaches a huge audience, and this makes people aware of the possibility that there maybe is something like a law of attraction. I think that's great stuff.
I hate to always sound like a doubting Thomas, but this film was financed by Packer(richest man in Australia) owned Network Nine the largest in Australia. Why are they pushing this so hard at the moment? Why the sudden promotion of something that has never really been a 'secret' to many anyway. You don't get any bigger a push as an appearance on Oprah.

Why do they want us visualizing a new house, money and sports cars?

[i am all i am]

I hate to always sound like a doubting Thomas, but this film was financed by Packer(richest man in Australia) owned Network Nine the largest in Australia. Why are they pushing this so hard at the moment? Why the sudden promotion of something that has never really been a 'secret' to many anyway. You don't get any bigger a push as an appearance on Oprah.

Why do they want us visualizing a new house, money and sports cars?

They are selling the 'DREAM'. Use this method to get what you want. Buy into the 'DREAM', consume and compete.

It's not 'The Secret" that they are selling. It's how YOU are supposed to use 'The Secret' to attain the 'DREAM'. That way you stay plugged in/controlled.


With LOVE.
_____________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

[Anders Lindman]

since i moved to chicago, in 1985, i've seen oprah get the crap kicked out of her over the years. she's paid her dues. what i was suggesting was that her hard-won influence is now being used as a smokescreen for larger issues. it's endemic to the whole cancer-ridden media in the u.s. we'll just talk about what oprah talks about so we can avoid dealing with threatening topics. if it isn't her, it's some runaway bride. and people eat it up.

so hopefully, you're right, anders. people will eat this up too, maybe. maybe they'll focus on the secret, actually apply it, and not allow themselves to get distracted by the latest headline about anna nicole.

i don't mean to be a pessimist, honestly. it's just i've been around americans all my life, and we have reeeeeeally short attention spans! :o

Having a short attention span is a good quality I think, or to be more exact, to have attention that can be both very fast and short and slower and longer depending on what the attention is about. Then it should be possible to pay attention to both Anna Nicole and The Secret and anything else. No need to hold on to things that will last. They will last anyway. No need to hold on to things that will not last. They will not last anyway. Hehe.

[jimijams]

They are selling the 'DREAM'. Use this method to get what you want. Buy into the 'DREAM', consume and compete.

It's not 'The Secret" that they are selling. It's how YOU are supposed to use 'The Secret' to attain the 'DREAM'. That way you stay plugged in/controlled.


With LOVE.
_____________________________________

Bingo! Visualize the new house and bang there are the bankers waiting to help you create your reality.

[i am all i am]

Bingo! Visualize the new house and bang there are the bankers waiting to help you create your reality.

Only it's really their reality. You merely bought into it.

There are four impulse factors used in sales (manipulation of the four control dramas in the Celestine Prophecy by James Redfield). 'Keeping up with the Jones' and 'Greed' are the impulse factors they are using.

If you buy their 'DREAM', you have to work for it and use their money to buy it. Obviously you are then enslaved by the system to work for the system.

Quick, jump on board everyone, we're sailing the system (titanic) to paradise.

As the system starts to sink (just like the titanic), you will see more and more desperation in selling the 'DREAM'. As more people wake up you will see the 'hard sell' as the system realises that it is sinking and has lost control.


With LOVE.

[Anders Lindman]

I hate to always sound like a doubting Thomas, but this film was financed by Packer(richest man in Australia) owned Network Nine the largest in Australia. Why are they pushing this so hard at the moment? Why the sudden promotion of something that has never really been a 'secret' to many anyway. You don't get any bigger a push as an appearance on Oprah.

Why do they want us visualizing a new house, money and sports cars?

I think Oprah is sincere and not easily manipulated or fooled. Packer does it either to only make money or both to make money and spread a good message to a large audience. But even if Packer is only in it for the money, Oprah is interested in more than money and fame I think.

[jimijams]

I think Oprah is sincere and not easily manipulated or fooled.
How do you know this? From what you see on TV? It's an illusion, you don't know someone because you watch them everyday on TV or listen on the radio.
It's an act and she is playing a role. Thats what they do on TV, they make pretend people in make believe worlds. If you like Oprah and believe she is sincere and not easily manipulated then all that shows me is that she is brilliant at her work and you've bought the illusion.

[oneofmany]

Ask Oprah about her bookclub? You'll soon see she's a corporate schill

[Anders Lindman]

Ask Oprah about her bookclub? You'll soon see she's a corporate schill

No doubt the name Oprah is like a commercial brand that is heavily used, but Oprah herself is one of the better show hosts I think. Not too lame, nor too bitchy. :D

[harpalchemist]

Sorry guys but have you heard of wishful thinking?The secret is just that.Its misinformation.DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD LET OUT THIS TYPE OF INFORMATION IF IT WASN'T TO TRAP THE EAGER. No wonder its becoming a best seller,ITS WHAT EVERYONE WANTS TO HEAR,ISNT IT?Think about it,please.This "film" tells you "that you get what you want by thinking it."Doesn't that sound too easy?What if there is a truth in there but you have not been told the whole technique.Doesn't that sound like walking into a trap.Take off the rose glasses and see,its another layer,another defence against you becoming,wasting your time,distorting your view.But,you do have to go through it to learn discernment.Thats the truth.

[thirdwave]

I hate to always sound like a doubting Thomas, but this film was financed by Packer(richest man in Australia) owned Network Nine the largest in Australia. Why are they pushing this so hard at the moment? Why the sudden promotion of something that has never really been a 'secret' to many anyway. You don't get any bigger a push as an appearance on Oprah.

Why do they want us visualizing a new house, money and sports cars?


Do these people have a choice now? ...they have two choices, either completely hide the truth and look very suspect by more and more people..... or just let it out and hope they can keep it in line... thats what many are doing now, let the truth out and hope the mind controlled masses walk past it.

The law of attraction is very real...has been understood by many for years.... infact Buddha being one...

the bottom line is this info should be aloud to get out there, if people just want to view it as just another one of Oprah shows... then thats there choice the info can only be exposed and the people do the rest....

the Mayans have predicted these times for years ...this kind of info coming out into the open.... the rest is up to the people.

[thirdwave]

Sorry guys but have you heard of wishful thinking?The secret is just that.Its misinformation.DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD LET OUT THIS TYPE OF INFORMATION IF IT WASN'T TO TRAP THE EAGER. No wonder its becoming a best seller,ITS WHAT EVERYONE WANTS TO HEAR,ISNT IT?Think about it,please.This "film" tells you "that you get what you want by thinking it."Doesn't that sound too easy?What if there is a truth in there but you have not been told the whole technique.Doesn't that sound like walking into a trap.Take off the rose glasses and see,its another layer,another defence against you becoming,wasting your time,distorting your view.But,you do have to go through it to learn discernment.Thats the truth.


like I say.... how long do you think this info can be held back?... they have not let it out, the internet has.... its just now all eyes are on them they have got to go along with it, so people can say things like you have...... "The Secret" is big because of word of mouth not because of the elite being nice letting it out... it has been out for a long time but the power of the internet has changed the world....

to be honest its not really up for debate anymore.. quantum physics can prove that matter is shaped by perception, this is a proven fact, so is "The Secret" that crazy?

[thirdwave]

I'm impressed by Oprah having the guts to make a show about The Secret. The Oprah Show reaches a huge audience, and this makes people aware of the possibility that there maybe is something like a law of attraction. I think that's great stuff.

I Agree, but when people keep having to judge the messenger rather than the message, it is an example of how people are just looking to be controlled rather than control them selfs....

its like they are saying... "mmmm im not going to let oprah control me, mmm lets see...ahh, he is ok, I will let him control me..."

so on....

I listen to the info and take it and be completely open to it and see if it makes sence to me. weather Bush tells me...Oprah...David Icke or a flying pig... it either tastes good or it does not.

[jimijams]

like I say.... how long do you think this info can be held back?... they have not let it out, the internet has.... its just now all eyes are on them they have got to go along with it, so people can say things like you have...... "The Secret" is big because of word of mouth not because of the elite being nice letting it out... it has been out for a long time but the power of the internet has changed the world....

to be honest its not really up for debate anymore.. quantum physics can prove that matter is shaped by perception, this is a proven fact, so is "The Secret" that crazy?
It's the packaging that concerns me rather than the message. All fluff and no substance, fast food spirituality, would you like fries with that or maybe a new car?

[Anders Lindman]

I Agree, but when people keep having to judge the messenger rather than the message, it is an example of how people are just looking to be controlled rather than control them selfs....

its like they are saying... "mmmm im not going to let oprah control me, mmm lets see...ahh, he is ok, I will let him control me..."

so on....

I listen to the info and take it and be completely open to it and see if it makes sence to me. weather Bush tells me...Oprah...David Icke or a flying pig... it either tastes good or it does not.

Good point. It's important to not get stuck on some collective group-think or media propaganda. Even one's own belief systems are much the result of the world we live in, and it's so far a world of much conflict. People are so afraid of getting confused so they rather hold on to some ideas (consciously or subconsciously) fed to them by some high priests. But seeing the confusion within oneself is an act of non-confusion, or as Vernon Howard said: it's good to see the bad.

[thirdwave]

It's the packaging that concerns me rather than the message. All fluff and no substance, fast food spirituality, would you like fries with that or maybe a new car?


Well I guess it could be more genuine and there is no doubt that they are looking to make a penny, (which over all I think is fare enough, there are people that make money from worse things...)

the thing is, if somone makes a video on a low budget and sends it out free over Google video... or you tube ..so on.. it can just be viewed as "conspiracy tripe" .."anyone can film that and stick any old thing up" ...but for a lot of people seeing a video like "The Secret" makes it a bit more official because its glossed up, its easier for them to believe, i guess its a harmless way of brainwashing people with something thats actually true.......

its a fine like.... you either stay under ground and hit less people, or you hit the mainstream and get the fancy cloths out...

[tru3]

Having a short attention span is a good quality I think, or to be more exact, to have attention that can be both very fast and short and slower and longer depending on what the attention is about. Then it should be possible to pay attention to both Anna Nicole and The Secret and anything else. No need to hold on to things that will last. They will last anyway. No need to hold on to things that will not last. They will not last anyway. Hehe.

true enough. :)

but if energy follows attention, and i am like a kid in a candy store , wanting this and that, my energy gets scattered.

i ran across this early on in my journeys:

5 Steps of Treatment:

1. Recognition - Acknowledge, in your own words, the All-ness and Whole-ness of God; specifically the aspects of God that are pertinent to the purpose of your treatment. (For instance: Love, Wholeness, Peace, etc…) In this stage, as in meditation, you are seeking the deepest possible awareness of, and immersion in, the Presence you feel in and around yourself and all others.

2. Unification: Declare, in your own words, your knowledge of the Truth about yourself: that you are one with God…that you are not all God is, but all that you are is God…that "God in me, as me, is me." Allow this awareness of One-ness to pervade your entire consciousness. Know with your whole being "I am that which Thou art; Thou art that which I am." Still speaking from your all-pervading consciousness of God's All-ness and One-ness, accept the knowing that all the statements about your One-ness with God is the Absolute Truth.

3. Realization: Realize and form a new idea or thought or feeling about the good you desire. In your own words, declare that this is already so and this is already yours. If necessary declare that any apparent obstruction in your thought to this idea is now dissolved in the light of Truth.

In this stage, your purpose is to embody the idea of good of which you desire, seeing it clearly as yours already, because of the Spiritual Truth of your being. The more complete the realization, your perception of spiritual Truth, the more clear and complete will be the manifestation. This step is complete when you experience it as already realized.

4. Thanksgiving: In your own words, express your gratitude for knowing the manifestation already exists in your life and accept its demonstration.

5. Release: Clearly, and completely, release your word to the action of the Law (the Law, not the Universe, or God's Love, or some other concept, but the Law) knowing that as you have spoken, it is now done. Release is important.

http://www.cslseattle.org/prayer-treatment.htm


do what you will with the word "god" or "law", but i post this just to suggest how important it is to let go of the outcome. imo, you can intend to manifest a red sports car-- just don't care whether you get it or not! lol:D

[thirdwave]

Good point. It's important to not get stuck on some collective group-think or media propaganda. Even one's own belief systems are much the result of the world we live in, and it's so far a world of much conflict. People are so afraid of getting confused so they rather hold on to some ideas (consciously or subconsciously) fed to them by some high priests. But seeing the confusion within oneself is an act of non-confusion, or as Vernon Howard said: it's good to see the bad.


yeah totally...

I think there is so much disinfo and stuff out there, but most disinfo works by being honest first and then twisting things.... so I generally believe that if you are just using your self to judge stuff then you can even take some handy info off of someone who is disinfo.... "thanks mate... its ok keep the rest, no need to go on...."

I used to look over the net franticly looking and looking for stuff.... but now I don't even look I just wait until for some reason im inspired to look into something and see what comes my way....

[tru3]

I used to look over the net franticly looking and looking for stuff.... but now I don't even look I just wait until for some reason im inspired to look into something and see what comes my way....

a very wise approach, imv. :)

[Anders Lindman]

if energy follows attention, and i am like a kid in a candy store , wanting this and that, my energy gets scattered.

Bruce Lipton has said that the conscious mind and the subconscious mind are often in conflict, and so things like personal wants, positive thinking or affirmations will then not really work since the conscious and the subconscious are working against each other.

[thirdwave]

a very wise approach, imv. :)


;)

[graflok]

My view of "The Secret" as an illuminati ploy:

- It's a "warm and fuzzy" first step into concepts of occultism for the masses and bears some resemblance to Aleister Crowley's Thelema system
- It discourages the "work ethic" concept of earning rewards via hard work, thus increasing credit card use and other debt
- It's a placebo and thus a distraction from the increasingly obvious NWO actions of our leaders who are currently on the brink of bringing about global catastrophes
- It tends to placate the masses, making them less likely to be angered by our leaders (i.e., deter revolt or rioting)
- It's a substitute for more effective means of improving the quality of our lives (such as exposing their crimes and agenda)
- It may be a set-up to help "soften the blow" of a coming economic collapse (engineered, of course)
- And, like most illuminat actions, it is raking in millions

graflok

[loveforall]

I live in cape town and there is a small "independant cinema" that has packed what would otherwise be a rather empty cinema on a tue and thur since last year aug (if not before) and i saw a number of things that appeared to me and nobody else.

what i saw was a red rose and a letter sealer (not sure of it´s proper term), the candel wax method constantly as well as the films symbol being stamped on this candel wax letter sealing method. i saw many things recurring (repetion), i dread to watch the movie, i fell asleep on the the person to my rights shoulder more than just once. is the red rose a rosicuran (blimey ive spelt that wrong!) symbol. do they still have those "mind expansion" courses? was sirhan sirhan in correspondence with a rosicuran (again!) mind expansion course? the letter sealing method dates way back but was it also a symbol of the rosicuran (!) is my question.

the secret reeks of bull, it did have a few interesting points. Nuff said

peace to all:D

[loveforall]

Rosicrucians

[tru3]

the letter sealing method dates way back but was it also a symbol of the rosicuran (!) is my question.

peace to all:D

anybody here know latin?

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8308/mysticroserosicruciansyo6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

this was on http://www.cuttingedge.org/NEWS/n1983.cfm

[midwich cuckoo]

anybody here know latin?

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8308/mysticroserosicruciansyo6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

this was on http://www.cuttingedge.org/NEWS/n1983.cfm

(DAT ROSA MEL APIBUS "The Rose Gives The Bees Honey" after the original motto found in the engraving (possibly) by Johann Thedore deBry (d. 1598).

This image of the Rosa Mundi, or Rota Mundi, is the solar wheel of Apollo, the Lord of movement, of the ever passing/present moment. It is the Solar Citadel, the abode of the Heart, the symbolic center of the Supreme Center which is everywhere centered at once. It is a door through which this invisible place may be accessed by one with a pure heart and an unblemished soul. If one gains access to the center of the rose, it speaks the "lost word" of Masonic lore, the Master Word which throws open the lodge doors of every sacred society.

More here -

http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/Eberly/CommentaryDR.htm

[john white]

My view of "The Secret" as an illuminati ploy:

- It's a "warm and fuzzy" first step into concepts of occultism for the masses and bears some resemblance to Aleister Crowley's Thelema system

Well theres a good start: "fear all knowledge!". So if I was some evil illuminoid who wanted to throw the "bees" off the scent of real honey, all I'd have to do is mention it and they'd never go there...

- It discourages the "work ethic" concept of earning rewards via hard work, thus increasing credit card use and other debt

If you believe so: thats the point

- It's a placebo and thus a distraction from the increasingly obvious NWO actions of our leaders who are currently on the brink of bringing about global catastrophes

A plecebo is something that has no effect other than peoples belief in it's efficacy: thats the pyramid structure of the illuminati right there

- It tends to placate the masses, making them less likely to be angered by our leaders (i.e., deter revolt or rioting)

You advocate revolution? Have you not learned your history? Who profited from the French Revolution? the Russian Revolution? The Cultural Revolution? It wasnt the oppressed masses!

- It's a substitute for more effective means of improving the quality of our lives (such as exposing their crimes and agenda)

Is it? Does it stop you doing that? Would it stop you doing both? Only if you believe it does! It certainly does'nt stop me, even as I recognise what i put out into the universe coming back to me

- It may be a set-up to help "soften the blow" of a coming economic collapse (engineered, of course)

Can't see how that is supposed to work. No bread is no bread

- And, like most illuminati actions, it is raking in millions

You bought a copy?

And heaven forbid I should mention our Dave has been talking about thoughts creating reality magnetically from the very early days...

[montag]

And heaven forbid I should mention our Dave has been talking about thoughts creating reality magnetically from the very early days...
Anders Lindmen made a good point before that unless you get your subconcious mind in line with your concious mind it is just wishful thinking. This is where the deeper work must be done ie. changing the program.

[john white]

Anders Lindmen made a good point before that unless you get your subconcious mind in line with your concious mind it is just wishful thinking. This is where the deeper work must be done ie. changing the program.

Smart fella is Anders. Although we could equally say we get a result the conscious mind mis-understands. Intergration of consciousness into harmony with the entire energy system of "the body" is pretty much the pinnacle of everything as far as self-realisation goes

[thirdwave]

in the links i have sent one of the guys actually goes into this .....

he said you have to ACT.... its no good just thinking away while the bailiffs come over.... this is what they were saying....

The Secret does not say you don't have to work hard.... you have to ACT.... you have to know what you really WANT...

people say... its the illuminati because they don't think the info would get out... but there you go... they can let it out because most people do not feel this info has any power... and people power does not seem to exist according to them... bu some "real" info is only valid if it is low budget and part time... and this does not stand up well with the fight against the people who have the power because they run the mainstream..... are we ever going to turn the tables or are we trapped under ground forever?

also the whole concept of anything earning money must be evil is really dangerous in my opinion.... infact thinking that people only except that false and no good people are only suited to making money is awful and just shows the control thatmthe illuminati really have...

[graflok]

Well theres a good start: "fear all knowledge!".

I'm not the least bit afraid of "The Secret" or any other scam.

<snip the remainder of john's snide, non sequitor drivel>

You really should learn how to read, john, before leaving comments regarding others' posts. Your penchant for twisting comments and "arguing against" points that were never made is a bore.

graflok

[tru3]

(DAT ROSA MEL APIBUS "The Rose Gives The Bees Honey" after the original motto found in the engraving (possibly) by Johann Thedore deBry (d. 1598).



thanks, mc

huh. i guess we're the bees, eh? :rolleyes: silly ill.

what the rose doesn't seem to get is that if weren't for the bees, the rose wouldn't exist.

no pollination.

this is hubris masquerading as spirituality, imv.

the power of the pyramid is at the base. ;)

This image of the Rosa Mundi, or Rota Mundi, is the solar wheel of Apollo, the Lord of movement, of the ever passing/present moment. It is the Solar Citadel, the abode of the Heart, the symbolic center of the Supreme Center which is everywhere centered at once. It is a door through which this invisible place may be accessed by one with a pure heart and an unblemished soul. If one gains access to the center of the rose, it speaks the "lost word" of Masonic lore, the Master Word which throws open the lodge doors of every sacred society.

it's all one. as above, so below. as within, so without. we've all got that, inside us. so, they can keep their doors sealed up, as far as i'm concerned. so what if the secret is or isn't an illuminati hoax? my intention is to tend the garden of the Heart. the rose in each of us is far more rare and precious than all the esoteric literature ever written.

[john white]

I'm not the least bit afraid of "The Secret" or any other scam.

<snip the remainder of john's snide, non sequitor drivel>

You really should learn how to read, john, before leaving comments regarding others' posts. Your penchant for twisting comments and "arguing against" points that were never made is a bore.

graflok

Very good graflok: proclaim yourself free from fear and dont even try to claim to understand anything else. Perhaps you don't understand: which is interesting, becuase having a dialogue is then the way to gain understanding

IF your not afraid! :)

I make what comments I please and comment on whatever I choose to percieve

[teslafire]

I understand Jerry and Esther Hicks were once Amway distributors, part of a retail pyramid scheme.

Seems they learned alot from their old job...

The best customer is the one that is able to persuade himself of their need for a given product.

What product is being sold you ask?

Reality. A belief system. In Christianity, Jesus is the product being sold. In the Secret, The Law of Attraction is being sold, the belief that you create your own reality, it bears startling resemblence to explanations of the caste system in India justified by past-life karma.

High concept marketing for the Haves to convince the Have-nots that everything is A okay while they widen the gap between the classes even farther than ever before with real world conspiracies.

[i am all i am]

I understand Jerry and Esther Hicks were once Amway distributors, part of a retail pyramid scheme.

Seems they learned alot from their old job...

The best customer is the one that is able to persuade himself of their need for a given product.

What product is being sold you ask?

Reality. A belief system. In Christianity, Jesus is the product being sold. In the Secret, The Law of Attraction is being sold, the belief that you create your own reality, it bears startling resemblence to explanations of the caste system in India justified by past-life karma.

High concept marketing for the Haves to convince the Have-nots that everything is A okay while they widen the gap between the classes even farther than ever before with real world conspiracies.

EXACTLY.

I mentioned the same thing in post #14 and #17.

Although I put it as the 'DREAM' being sold, that is, what The Law of Attraction can get for you.

Just another sale. "Did you hit your quota!".


With LOVE.
__________________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

[friendsinthesky]

Smart fella is Anders. Although we could equally say we get a result the conscious mind mis-understands. Intergration of consciousness into harmony with the entire energy system of "the body" is pretty much the pinnacle of everything as far as self-realisation goes

..read the post again (no offence to Anders)

Bruce Lipton has said that the conscious mind and the subconscious mind are often in conflict, and so things like personal wants, positive thinking or affirmations will then not really work since the conscious and the subconscious are working against each other.

..by the way john white, do you have any thought as to why this could be right?

[thirdwave]

EXACTLY.

I mentioned the same thing in post #14 and #17.

Although I put it as the 'DREAM' being sold, that is, what The Law of Attraction can get for you.

Just another sale. "Did you hit your quota!".


With LOVE.
__________________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.



but if you want to ignore the fact that the secret encourages you not to get caught up in all your thoughts and very much to ACT on things to make them happen.... in the film and in there interviews.... then of course you can come to that conclusion...

but its not there fault people choose to ignore half of what they are saying.... and if there are people out there sitting on their backsides waiting for it to magic on their laps then you cant always cater for fools... the info is out there.... the movie is as black and white as can be... the rest is up to the people to look into them selfs and see if it works....

I think the fact that the govenment have done so much poison our food and water and use many methods of making people lazy and low on energy indicates that they very much don't want people to have "any get up and go", so to speak, and "The Secret" is most certainly not one of them In my view.

[harpalchemist]

Well well well.It seems that by me posting one logical entry the wolves have dropped there sheeps clothing.Take heart Graflok.You know see what I mean.Personal attacks show lack of integrity,knowledge and compassion.All I am saying is use perspicacity.Lets end this sophomore level backchat.OK,If "THE SECRET" really does seem to be the answer,lets all focus on one thing everyday for a month,thats long enough,or maybe that shoot of manifestation is just under the surface and we stopped too soon.Altogether now,OH NO!How about David Icke winning against the court case before March 31.Seems appropriate as its his site. If you really believe this Oprah led lie,lets do it and see,or if not,thats the end of the matter. I had the same experience with "The flower of life" course and the MERKABA,thats a lie too.Drunvalo is taking away your power of free will by you CHOOSING to believe that nonsense,YOU HEAR ME! NOW,who's in for this experiment,everyday picturing Ickey strolling out of court in victory,with your pinup board pictures of him smilin BY MARCH 31.

[i am all i am]

but if you want to ignore the fact that the secret encourages you not to get caught up in all your thoughts and very much to ACT on things to make them happen.... in the film and in there interviews.... then of course you can come to that conclusion...

but its not there fault people choose to ignore half of what they are saying.... and if there are people out there sitting on their backsides waiting for it to magic on their laps then you cant always cater for fools... the info is out there.... the movie is as black and white as can be... the rest is up to the people to look into them selfs and see if it works....

I think the fact that the govenment have done so much poison our food and water and use many methods of making people lazy and low on energy indicates that they very much don't want people to have "any get up and go", so to speak, and "The Secret" is most certainly not one of them In my view.


I am not knocking the message. I haven't even watched 'The Secret'.

What I am saying is that it is being 'sold' to people by the 'system' for their 'agenda', which entails you being a consumer and competitor.

'The Secret' is not new. This information can be found by those seeking without having to see 'The Secret'. So that means it is not really a secret, let alone THE secret.

It would be interesting to know whether the reason for producing 'The Secret' is given within the film and what that reason is.


With LOVE.
_______________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

[thirdwave]

Well well well.It seems that by me posting one logical entry the wolves have dropped there sheeps clothing.Take heart Graflok.You know see what I mean.Personal attacks show lack of integrity,knowledge and compassion.All I am saying is use perspicacity.Lets end this sophomore level backchat.OK,If "THE SECRET" really does seem to be the answer,lets all focus on one thing everyday for a month,thats long enough,or maybe that shoot of manifestation is just under the surface and we stopped too soon.Altogether now,OH NO!How about David Icke winning against the court case before March 31.Seems appropriate as its his site. If you really believe this Oprah led lie,lets do it and see,or if not,thats the end of the matter. I had the same experience with "The flower of life" course and the MERKABA,thats a lie too.Drunvalo is taking away your power of free will by you CHOOSING to believe that nonsense,YOU HEAR ME! NOW,who's in for this experiment,everyday picturing Ickey strolling out of court in victory,with your pinup board pictures of him smilin BY MARCH 31.

Personally for me I know for a fact its real as I have experienced it first hand.... and you test will not work and to me actually shows that you don't really understand how it works..... its not want you think about that really manifests...its how your thoughts make you feel.... it has to be what you really want.... and love.... or feel very strongly about.... you cant just program your emotions to test it for 1 month.... also its over our lives we can manifest .... its up to David to do his.... we control OUR reality, not others.

to be honest people can argue as much as they like and say its false but if you research quantum physics.... it has been proven that matter changes with perception..... so its a FACT that our thoughts effect "reality"

here is a good little 5 min vid that explains how it works... I had to watch it a few times to get my head around what this clip is saying .... but its veru cool, Dr Quantum - Double Slit Experiment - YouTube

[thirdwave]

I am not knocking the message. I haven't even watched 'The Secret'.

What I am saying is that it is being 'sold' to people by the 'system' for their 'agenda', which entails you being a consumer and competitor.

'The Secret' is not new. This information can be found by those seeking without having to see 'The Secret'. So that means it is not really a secret, let alone THE secret.

It would be interesting to know whether the reason for producing 'The Secret' is given within the film and what that reason is.


With LOVE.
_______________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.



If its sold by the system... why did it take a huge online marketing plan to bring it into the mainstream? ...it was word of mouth that made it huge.... I saw it grow from a small website to the huge thing it is now...

why was it not on the BBC as a cool documentary from word go?? .
you only need to look at the Devinci code to see something that has been pushed by the elite... I will agree "The Secret" was to make a buck, and was very polished to really get to people.... but i don't see the harm.... its a start ...its a start that this DVD is so well known, that people are so interested and taken by it... its a start that David Icke gets to speak out on Chanel 5 ..twice.... this did not happen 10-20 years ago.... why did the elite not get all this out back then? ...because it was easier to hide altogether and not as much public demand.

I think people flatter the elite to much... since the internet has come out and spread more info they have had no choice but to allow stuff, to try and hide it all would only expose them selfs more...... all they can do know is throw other stuff out there so there is so much info it over whelms people, in the hope people just let it go over their head....
the elite strongest trick is hiding the truth under peoples noses....

[notaslave]

Why I dont buy "the secret" is ...

it suggests
we are all responsible for the crap we have in our life.

it suggests
if we try harder we can manifest great things in our life.


it sounds like religion but instead of promising all good things after you die it is saying it's your fault. Same shit different label.


I want good stuff NOW I am sick of waiting and all these things tell you to wait.

[tru3]

If its sold by the system... why did it take a huge online marketing plan to bring it into the mainstream? ...it was word of mouth that made it huge.... I saw it grow from a small website to the huge thing it is now...

why was it not on the BBC as a cool documentary from word go?? .
you only need to look at the Devinci code to see something that has been pushed by the elite... I will agree "The Secret" was to make a buck, and was very polished to really get to people.... but i don't see the harm.... its a start ...its a start that this DVD is so well known, that people are so interested and taken by it... its a start that David Icke gets to speak out on Chanel 5 ..twice.... this did not happen 10-20 years ago.... why did the elite not get all this out back then? ...because it was easier to hide altogether and not as much public demand.

I think people flatter the elite to much... since the internet has come out and spread more info they have had no choice but to allow stuff, to try and hide it all would only expose them selfs more...... all they can do know is throw other stuff out there so there is so much info it over whelms people, in the hope people just let it go over their head....
the elite strongest trick is hiding the truth under peoples noses....

well said. as always, they hide in plain sight, or rather, in the twighlight of half-truth. they always have. the law of attraction is built in to the matrix. once again, as with "the rose", what is available to one and all has been made into an external "mystery" school. lol. at least this time, a blood oath of fealty is not required, just your credit card.

looks like they're losing their touch! ;)

I understand Jerry and Esther Hicks were once Amway distributors, part of a retail pyramid scheme.

Seems they learned alot from their old job...

The best customer is the one that is able to persuade himself of their need for a given product.

What product is being sold you ask?

Reality. A belief system. In Christianity, Jesus is the product being sold. In the Secret, The Law of Attraction is being sold, the belief that you create your own reality, it bears startling resemblence to explanations of the caste system in India justified by past-life karma.

High concept marketing for the Haves to convince the Have-nots that everything is A okay while they widen the gap between the classes even farther than ever before with real world conspiracies.

isn't it interesting esther hicks bailed out of the project? i'm sorry, but joe vitale would sell anything to anybody. he's been calling himself a "spiritual marketing guru" for years. when i learned he was involved in the project, my radar went up immediately.

now, to be fair, i actually met lisa nichols. she is a wonderful young woman. the work she does with teenagers is quite remarkable. but i also think she saw an "opportunity" to go "big time".

"what a piece of work is man". human motivation is never as cut and dried as we sometimes believe. good people can get caught up in misdirected intentions.

Well well well.It seems that by me posting one logical entry the wolves have dropped there sheeps clothing.Take heart Graflok.You know see what I mean.Personal attacks show lack of integrity,knowledge and compassion.All I am saying is use perspicacity.Lets end this sophomore level backchat.OK,If "THE SECRET" really does seem to be the answer,lets all focus on one thing everyday for a month,thats long enough,or maybe that shoot of manifestation is just under the surface and we stopped too soon.Altogether now,OH NO!How about David Icke winning against the court case before March 31.Seems appropriate as its his site. If you really believe this Oprah led lie,lets do it and see,or if not,thats the end of the matter. I had the same experience with "The flower of life" course and the MERKABA,thats a lie too.Drunvalo is taking away your power of free will by you CHOOSING to believe that nonsense,YOU HEAR ME! NOW,who's in for this experiment,everyday picturing Ickey strolling out of court in victory,with your pinup board pictures of him smilin BY MARCH 31.

whoa!! why is a challenge a personal attack? don't take shit personally; life is so much more peaceful that way, imo. cripes, people, i thought we were here to "expose the dream world"!? this is another thing the ill. are good at: playing both ends against the middle, and getting people to fight amongst themselves instead of working together to expand awareness, find solutions and build a common vision!

looks like mission accomplished, on this thread, anyway.

[jimijams]

I understand Jerry and Esther Hicks were once Amway distributors, part of a retail pyramid scheme.

Seems they learned alot from their old job...

I didn't know that, although it makes a lot of sense. I have a collection of Abraham/Hicks audios courtesy of KOTM, I've tried many times to listen to these with no success, ten minutes in I find myself reaching for the delete. Maybe because I don't find being shouted at restfull or inspiring, then again maybe it's just me.

[jimijams]

Why I dont buy "the secret" is ...

it suggests
we are all responsible for the crap we have in our life.

it suggests
if we try harder we can manifest great things in our life.


it sounds like religion but instead of promising all good things after you die it is saying it's your fault. Same shit different label.


I want good stuff NOW I am sick of waiting and all these things tell you to wait.

If they were really benevolent maybe they could have 'the secret' translated in to Arabic so that the Iraqis and Palestinians could begin manifesting a future without murdering occupying forces on their land, or maybe they could translate it to Zulu so the Africans could stop manifesting AIDS.

I am of course being sarcastic, but this is the logical conclusion that must be drawn. If the LOA is as powerful as they claim, shouldn't they really be promoting it to people who really need to hear it rather than to already wealthy middle class housewives that watch Oprah?

[Anders Lindman]

...its how your thoughts make you feel....

Maybe the trick is to think and to feel at the same time, to feel-think so to speak. It's very clear that many of my thoughts don't feel good. I wonder if it's possible to use feeling as a guidance system for thoughts. Feelings are probably mostly based on subconscious patterns, and negative feelings perhaps indicate the conflict between the subconscious and the conscious.

[graflok]

Very good graflok: proclaim yourself free from fear and dont even try to claim to understand anything else.

I made no such proclamation. You really should work on your reading skills.


Perhaps you don't understand: which is interesting, becuase having a dialogue is then the way to gain understanding

And, here is your dialog: I think my understanding of you is quite clear. You are simply a troll.

I make what comments I please and comment on whatever I choose to percieve

That's fine with me, john. I just thought you might enjoy life a bit more if you learned how to read. Your choice.

graflok

[notaslave]

If they were really benevolent maybe they could have 'the secret' translated in to Arabic so that the Iraqis and Palestinians could begin manifesting a future without murdering occupying forces on their land, or maybe they could translate it to Zulu so the Africans could stop manifesting AIDS.

I am of course being sarcastic, but this is the logical conclusion that must be drawn. If the LOA is as powerful as they claim, shouldn't they really be promoting it to people who really need to hear it rather than to already wealthy middle class housewives that watch Oprah?

EXACTLY. And dont you think that people for generations have wished their lives were better? LOA sucked big time for them.

[tru3]

EXACTLY. And dont you think that people for generations have wished their lives were better? LOA sucked big time for them.

now we're getting some where!

it's an energetic law. laws are completely nuetral, indifferent to the nature of the intentional impulse. so, for generations people have "wished" their lives were better, and yet at the same time they "choose" to hold onto race consciousness. i have found i can't accept the greater until i let go of the lesser. it's a universal truth of human behaviour that we want to have our cake and eat it too. i'm sorry; in my experience, you can't have it both ways! to clumsily paraphrase quantum physics, you can choose to view reality as particles, or waves, but not both.

there is also a more sinister aspect to this whole thing. anders so eloquently stated the role of the unconscious (of course imo. imo. imo. there? any questions? ;) ). john white threw in the idea of the body as being integral in the experience of Consciousness. there's one more piece that i think is crucial as to understand why people aren't able to use the loa. please refer to the following post, particularly the passages in blue:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11419&highlight=groddeck#post11419

it is my strong intuition that groddeck's "it" is how the god program manifests itself in human affairs, through the radio receiver we call the dna. we have been trained from birth (and before, imv) to identify ourselves with the random stream of 50,000 thoughts a day most people have-- i can say with certainty that at least i have been; i'm sure i'm the only one here lol. :rolleyes:

groddeck recorded thousands of observations with live patients, as did, for that matter, wilhelm reich, who were contemporaries. there work is similar in many respects.

the common thread i see is that: a) we're just energy, and b) this energy is somehow manipulated and twisted by unknown factors.

so, IF there is a conspiracy behind the secret, the rationale may go something like this: "oh, well, i guess the cat's out of the bag. okay, how do we leverage this? i know! we'll put together a real slick shiny package, give them just enough rope to hang themselves like we normally do and, because most people are unwilling to look within for their own answers, as they have since time immemorial, they'll give up in frustration and say, 'oh, it's all bollocks anyway'."

let's hang in there folks. we're all on the same side. :) being open to expanding one's beliefs takes a PRODIGIOUS amount of energy, ime. that energy can be uncomfortable sometimes. don't bail!

in love and service.

[thirdwave]

Why I dont buy "the secret" is ...

it suggests
we are all responsible for the crap we have in our life.

it suggests
if we try harder we can manifest great things in our life.


it sounds like religion but instead of promising all good things after you die it is saying it's your fault. Same shit different label.


I want good stuff NOW I am sick of waiting and all these things tell you to wait.



it suggests
we are all responsible for the crap we have in our life.

%100

it suggests
if we try harder we can manifest great things in our life.

mmmm not really, you don't have to try at all.... you just have to tune in..., if you want you can be as "evil" as you like and use the secret.... thats what the illumianti do.



it sounds like religion but instead of promising all good things after you die it is saying it's your fault. Same shit different label.

It SHOULD be religion... its what religion is built up on only completely torn apart and covered up within a load of other stories and mis understandings...

there is no such thing as heven or hell.... its only your experience that you create... if you create more heaven in your existence then thats what you have....if you create more hell then so on.... "dead" or "alive" it still works for you and you still feel it.... but if you do bad things all the time, how can you evolve and move towards "heven"??? you stuck in the mud.... create more heven and you evolve as there is more goodness around you.... simple as that as far as im concerned.... no religion needed


I want good stuff NOW I am sick of waiting and all these things tell you to wait.

so stop thinking about waiting and think about getting.... the law of attraction is always going on around you, its how matter works.... you must be getting something out of waiting or you would not keep focusing on it ...

[thirdwave]

[QUOTE]
looks like they're losing their touch! ;)


I think they are and they are banking on us thinking otherwise!

[teslafire]

The very definition of pseudoscience is attaching scientific terms like "Law" to perceptions that CANNOT be proven through the scientific method.

It stretches the truth just on its face.

They use testimonials as evidence of support, they rely upon perception, NOT reason. But to me I see very little difference between the fanatic Christian and the fanatic LOA'er because they base their arguments on the false given that they are speaking a great rational truth even though its plainly subjective and irrational (they'd call it a paradox).

The Christian ultimately falls back on the Bible is the word of God, as a statement of fact, overlooking obvious human involvement such as canonization i.e. the Council of Nicea, and the masonic square and compass on every edition of the KJV.

The LOA'er ultimately falls back on some yet examined part of their on psyche to explain away any inconsistencies in their 'calling and alignment of matter'. Get lost in your emotions, be fascinated by your own potential...sounds more like encouraging vanity and indulgence to me...

Of course if you think that you are responsible for your own experience in every facet then you could change that at any moment by focusing on other things...

The problem with that is it discounts the 'other' completely. An analogy in physics would be that "LOA" is trying to understand the universe from a cause and effect (thoughts create reality) Newtonian perspective in a quantum universe ruled by 'dark matter'. You're willfully blinding yourself. Of course the dark matter thesis could be flawed, Science and Physics always remains open to criticism. Metaphysics, however, is always quick to 'lay down the law' and contains a built in ad-hominem to defer all criticism...funny that.

Is there another way to communicate beyond thought, you know, beyond human understanding...???

[teslafire]

And the fact that its on Oprah...the same woman who spurned Dr. Phil...uhhh, I cringe at the thought.

[tru3]

They use testimonials as evidence of support, they rely upon perception, NOT reason. But to me I see very little difference between the fanatic Christian and the fanatic LOA'er because they base their arguments on the false given that they are speaking a great rational truth even though its plainly subjective and irrational (they'd call it a paradox).

yes, perception is often faulty. and, i suppose it depends on one's understanding of "truth", doesn't it?

ime, water seeks its own level, as does consciousness.

[teslafire]

yes, perception is often faulty. and, i suppose it depends on one's understanding of "truth", doesn't it?

True but it also depends if one is even willing to claim truth at all, from this limited perspective of human consciousness.

[notaslave]

So it all comes down to we are not doing it right?

Sorry still aint buying.

[teslafire]

So it all comes down to we are not doing it right?

That's the ad-hominem I was talking about, its built in to the very belief system of the Law of Attraction. Forget the "effects" of reality focus on the "cause". From the perspective of 'the secret', YOU are the cause - that is the definition of ad-hominem, seriously, look it up, its blatant.

Instead of taking on points like 'Did the aborted fetus attract its own fate'?
Some LOA'ers will go to the depths of saying that the fetus attracted such an experience for their understanding.

Instead of taking on points like 'the world is severely controlled and the chemtrail spraying is making my nephew develop asthma", some will say that the nephew is attracting this into his existence because of whatever reason.

[i_am]

So it all comes down to we are not doing it right?

Basically, yes! It has probably worked for most people without them even realising it. Have you ever walked down the street and seen an article that you would love to own. You can't afford it but rather than concentrate on that negative aspect, you just picture yourself with it. Every time you walk past you do the same thing. No bad vibes, no negativity, just a vision. All of a sudden you get some unexpected money, you get offered overtime, you have a small lottery win, someone leaves you some money, you receive some for your birthday, you get the picture :p and voila you go buy the object of your dream You have manifested.


Sorry still aint buying.

and that is why it does not work for you. Nothing will manifest unless you can believe (no sorry, imagine) it.

[tru3]

That's the ad-hominem I was talking about, its built in to the very belief system of the Law of Attraction. Forget the "effects" of reality focus on the "cause". From the perspective of 'the secret', YOU are the cause - that is the definition of ad-hominem, seriously, look it up, its blatant.



very concisely put.

[teslafire]

and that is why it does not work for you. Nothing will manifest unless you can believe (no sorry, imagine) it.
That is not in accord with LOA dogma.

There is 'no belief required to manifest' you're doing it all the time by default, for its the neutral "Law of the Universe".

The reason not a slave 'can't manifest' is because he keeps thinking 'he can't manifest'. I'm fascistinated by this circular logic.

[john white]

That is not in accord with LOA dogma.

There is 'no belief required to manifest' you're doing it all the time by default, for its the neutral "Law of the Universe".

The reason not a slave 'can't manifest' is because he keeps thinking 'he can't manifest'. I'm fascistinated by this circular logic.

But whoever said logic is the tool to understand the universe? It's an entirely illusionary creation of mind

[john white]

Generally speaking, I find it counter productive to "debate" the principles and perceptions that have recently been presented as "the secret" or "the law of attraction": there is no "law": simply perception. The way this infomation is understood (and largely, from a point of perception, misunderstood) are diverse indeed. Its intently personal, and information from the perception of the interconnectedness and oneness of all "things" is always paradoxical when considered with the tools of duality (of which logic is of course, a major one). Oneness understands there is no such thing as control: only influence, and that everything is defined as choice. Shit things happens to us? Of course! everyone can say that. But it is a journey to be able to embrace and live from the perspective that how those shit things affect us, and the way they affect us, if at all, is always our own responsibility, and our own choice

However, here's something Icke said which is interesting:

Life on Planet Earth has become the interaction between programmed, emotional eggshells. The real us, love, hardly gets a look in. It is often just a horrified spectator. True love rarely has the chance to communicate its wisdom, balance, and harmony and the world reflects precisely that situation.

The people we meet are mirrors of ourselves or actors playing a role which can teach us something about ourselves and the world. We attract them to us because they mirror the vibes we are broadcasting from within or because their states of being create an experience which can lead to greater understanding. When we see conflict anywhere, be it an argument in a supermarket queue, a family upset, or a world war, we are looking at inner turmoil being projected outwards and expressed as a physical event. When we get angry with others, we are getting angry with ourselves. It’s interesting how often you hear the comment: “It’s alright for so and so to do that, but when anyone else does the same he/she goes crazy”. This response comes when we see a characteristic of ourselves which we don’t like, expressed by someone else. We often react to that person in a really over-the-top way because they are mirroring at us something we don’t wish to face about ourselves or their behaviour has pushed emotional buttons deep within us that trigger memories of past life experiences or those from this life, especially from the emotional minefield we call childhood. I have seen people become vicious and violent when this happens to them. The focus of their anger is not the person involved, they are just the mirror. It is themselves they are attacking. But most people don’t realise that -they are stuck in the movie and the separation and they think it is real. But now look at guilt from the more detached view - the front row of the stalls. When we act negatively towards another person, that is a reflection of our own sense of self, our own imagination of ourselves, at that moment. OK, if we are sensible, we learn from the consequences of what we did, evolve, and move on. That’s a positive experience for which we should be thankful. It has given us understanding. But, from the wider perspective, the person on the receiving end of that behaviour should be grateful too, once they have felt the initial emotional hurt.

We create our own reality by attracting to us magnetically the energy fields, people, experiences, which match the imagination of ourselves that we are broadcasting.

Our behaviour is a reflection of our state of being and that also applies to the experience of our “victim”. They attracted our state of being to them at that moment, and not another person who would have reacted very differently, because they needed to face what our state of being could give them. Instead of feeling guilty about what we have or have not done to others, we need to learn from the experience, know that it was a gift, a learning experience for ourselves and for the other person or people. They created it just as much as we did. Experience is how we evolve and we need the full range of possible experiences for a balanced evolution. If we are going to hold on to guilt with every negative experience we have attracted, we are going to be swamped with the stuff. And we have been. Look at us. Let us see guilt for what it really is - the unjustified emotional hand luggage that slows down our journey to Oneness because it destroys our sense of self. Guilt is merely the negative side of experience. It is valid in that it is an emotion we can feel and learn from. But it is not meant to be in permanent residence, squatting in our psyche. Let it go. Let the weights fall off. It’s time to fly. There is nothing to feel guilty about. No, not ever. A big movie star doesn’t feel guilty when he plays out the part of the “baddie” does he? Of course not. Then why do you?

You’re a bigger star in a bigger movie. If you don’t like the part, change
the script.

This is of course from p150 of "I am me I am free", written 10 years ago. The bolded section is my empthasis

[teslafire]

But whoever said logic is the tool to understand the universe?
Every person on the lecture circuit hawking the LOA.
Is the LOA not a purportedly logical argument stating a clear cause and effect?

It's an entirely illusionary creation of mind
That's not a given, its an assumption based on perception. Though it denotes that we live in a vibratory universe (which I agree with) one could be fooling themselves into thinking all the universe is simply mindmatter. There is no way to determine this because we cannot understand or know if there is a force beyond thought - which is what I would informally call God.

[teslafire]

But it is a journey to be able to embrace and live from the perspective that how those shit things affect us, and the way they affect us, if at all, is always our own responsibility, and our own choice

So you're saying aborted fetuses the world round and all the hapless pedestrians caught in the crossfire of the Elite's wars are indulging in "victim consciousness"?

[john white]

Every person on the lecture circuit hawking the LOA.
Is the LOA not a purportedly logical argument stating a clear cause and effect?


That's not a given, its an assumption based on perception. Though it denotes that we live in a vibratory universe (which I agree with) one could be fooling themselves into thinking all the universe is simply mindmatter. There is no way to determine this because we cannot understand or know if there is a force beyond thought - which is what I would informally call God.

Tesla, I'm not interested in what anyone on the LOA lecture circuit has to say anymore or any less than I am interested in what anyone else has to say: including yourself. They are all welcome to their views and opinions: thats a basic requirement of freedom. But what I am interested in is the truth, as much as the finite abilities available to consciousness incarnate in a body can comprehend: and it is my own experiance that tells me there is a heart of truth in "the secret" no matter how crassly it is presented for personal gain, or marketed at people whose belief in fullfilment requires the manifestation of a nicer house or a larger car: so that is the POV I am presenting on this thread. Personally speaking, the wealth I seek to manifest is of an entirely different order

I quite agree that there is a profound difficulty in thinking our way into understading what lies beyond thought. One cell cannot comprehend the entire brain, on soul cannot comprehend the entire of the creator: but we can comprehend what we can comprehend, as defined by our inherant potential. And intuitively (that is, from knowing that feels and is at peace with not being subject to proof) I would venture that the essence of God is what thought is created out of: that is to say, thought is the result, not the originator

However, (and of course this does not mean one has to agree) I would not wish my response to yourself to serve as a distraction from recognising the fact that Icke said this, years before "the secret" was a film project in an ambitous woman's eye:

We create our own reality by attracting to us magnetically the energy fields, people, experiences, which match the imagination of ourselves that we are broadcasting.

[john white]

So you're saying aborted fetuses the world round and all the hapless pedestrians caught in the crossfire of the Elite's wars are indulging in "victim consciousness"?

No, your saying that. Although abortion is a regretable thing (in a world of regretable things), a foetus hardly has the potential to think, and therefore to manifest, of a fully developed adult: and I consider your example to simply be a crude diversion from considering the perspective that we are all responsible for ourselves. (some of) Mankind is in a state of severe imbalance and does severley imbalanced things: but we have the choice of whether to create fear, hate, anger, resentment, guilt or something better as a result of that: perhaps even healing and (the potential for) a solution

[tru3]

That's not a given, its an assumption based on perception. Though it denotes that we live in a vibratory universe (which I agree with) one could be fooling themselves into thinking all the universe is simply mindmatter. There is no way to determine this because we cannot understand or know if there is a force beyond thought - which is what I would informally call God.


the mind is a communication instrument. it is not an organ of perception, it is a switch box, imo. it is a loose sieve, a leaky filter, through which passes most of the energy spectrum of the universe. a pretty poor standard of performance, if you ask me. its domain is reason and belief. what we are looking at is what we are looking with.

Generally speaking, I find it counter productive to "debate" the principles and perceptions that have recently been presented as "the secret" or "the law of attraction": there is no "law": simply perception. The way this infomation is understood (and largely, from a point of perception, misunderstood) are diverse indeed. Its intently personal, and information from the perception of the interconnectedness and oneness of all "things" is always paradoxical when considered with the tools of duality (of which logic is of course, a major one). Oneness understands there is no such thing as control: only influence, and that everything is defined as choice. Shit things happens to us? Of course! everyone can say that. But it is a journey to be able to embrace and live from the perspective that how those shit things affect us, and the way they affect us, if at all, is always our own responsibility, and our own choice

i believe the ancients referred to this as "the great wisdom mirror".

i believe that the seat of Consciousness is non-local, non-rational (notice i did not say irrational; it both includes and transcends rationality). the bedrock is not the seen, but the seer, the primordial ground of Awareness we have access to-- that we are--right now. it is irreducible, indivisble, indestructible, the ground from which the matrix, the operating system by which it operates, and yes, the creator of the matrix, emerges. so it appears to me.

[teslafire]

No, your saying that. Although abortion is a regretable thing (in a world of regretable things), a foetus hardly has the potential to think, and therefore to manifest, of a fully developed adult: and I consider your example to simply be a crude diversion from considering the perspective that we are all responsible for ourselves.

And here is the ad-hominem built into the belief system that absolves all believers of any type of hard-knuckled critique. I'm questioning the belief system and its logical conclusions but you focus on me, avoiding the issue, and my "diversions".

Its a Law right? Always present without effort or will correct?

Laws apply universally, no excuses or distastes - it trumps all perceptions.

[john white]

And here is the ad-hominem built into the belief system that absolves all believers of any type of hard-knuckled critique. I'm questioning the belief system and its logical conclusions but you focus on me, avoiding the issue, and my "diversions".

Its a Law right? Always present without effort or will correct?

Laws apply universally, no excuses or distastes - it trumps all perceptions.

I thought I had made a clear comment on this already: but if a clearer one is needed, ALL laws are simply beliefs that can only be said to appear to apply. It seems to me you are discussing a mental map called a "law" and I am discussing the universe of energy we exist in. I believe I understand the difference between the two, and I hope you do as well

Here's a question for you tesla: do your thoughts create your reality? if so, why? if not, why?

[teslafire]

ALL laws are simply beliefs that can only be said to appear to apply.

All Law is perception now?

It seems to me you are discussing a mental map called a "law" and I am discussing the universe of energy we exist in. I believe I understand the difference between the two

I thought they were one and the same?

Here's a question for you tesla: do your thoughts create your reality?

In interaction with everyone else's thoughts, major politcal, economic, cultural movements and with the Great Unknown, that which is beyond perception.

[john white]

All Law is perception now?

Absolutely. Everything is perception. Just what is this reality we think we percieve?

I thought they were one and the same?

In a way, yes they are, but in a more pragmatic way, no they are not

"the map is not the territory".

Go to a place, with a map of the place. Look at the place. Look at the map. Are they the same?

In interaction with everyone else's thoughts, major politcal, economic, cultural movements and with the Great Unknown, that which is beyond perception.

And what is your acceptance (or rejection) of the thoughts of others, the realms of the political, the economic, the cultural (ALL things temporal and physical) and the infinate, other than a choice?

To show the mutability of "law", it was once immutable "law" that the universe was a mechanical mechanism, until quantum physics came along and demonstrated that it certainly was not... to be replaced, of course, with the "law" of quantum uncertainty.... which is really nothing else but a recognition of the limitations of tools in relationship with the limitations of their users

[eternal_spirit]

The world we live in is very real and solid! Stop denying reality and float down off you're cloud lol. You ever seen anyone walk through a brick wall? NO..Some claim they can, it's not possible try it and see.

[john white]

The world we live in is very real and solid! Stop denying reality and float down off you're cloud lol. You ever seen anyone walk through a brick wall? NO..Some claim they can, it's not possible try it and see.

And what is the brick wall made of eternal spirit? "Atoms"? And what are atoms made of? electrons and nuclei? and what are they made of? nothing, baring a pattern of energy

We exist in an energy field designed(in my perception) to create the ability to believe this world is physical: when all of scientific and spirtual knowledge (theres not really a difference btw) leads us inexorably to the understanding that it is not. Run at a brick wall and hit your head: your body will create the experiance (as per the programme enacted by the DNA and RNA) that you have hit a solid object: but you have not: energy feilds have meerly interacted and repelled each other, with the resulting disruption to the balance of those energy fields experianced as a split skull

Besides which, spirits walk through walls all the time: on dimensional frequencies even immediately adjascent to this one, there is no wall, and there never has been:and there are an infinity of dimensional frequencies

[eternal_spirit]

Yes John the spirits walk through walls...they have no physical body it's easy for them lol.

[tru3]

We exist in an energy field designed(in my perception) to create the ability to believe this world is physical: when all of scientific and spirtual knowledge (theres not really a difference btw) leads us inexorably to the understanding that it is not. Run at a brick wall and hit your head: your body will create the experiance (as per the programme enacted by the DNA and RNA) that you have hit a solid object: but you have not: energy feilds have meerly interacted and repelled each other, with the resulting disruption to the balance of those energy fields experianced as a split skull


i call that a boo-boo. :(

[masonic3]

I think you're wrong.

I Love you Terry dont;) hunt me down like a dog!!!

[john white]

Yes John the spirits walk through walls...they have no physical body it's easy for them lol.

The physical world you think you experiance is nothing else but a simulation of electrical signals constructed into a 5 sense reality inside your "head". it has only a subjective existance, becuase the only way we have to experiance it as anything else but spirit is that self same simulation

lol as much as you like about that. It makes me lol too. It also makes me marvel and wonder at the sheer brilliance of the creator

[i_am]

That is not in accord with LOA dogma.

Have never gone along with any dogma :)


The reason not a slave 'can't manifest' is because he keeps thinking 'he can't manifest'.

ummm! Isn't that what I said?

Who was it said, " if you think you can, or think you can't, you are right." Somethin' like that anyway :p

I also said 'imagine' as in dream, visualise. Everything is vibration and when your vibration is insync with the universal vibration, manifestation is a natural thing. The universal vibration is LOVE therefore if you are vibrating with love and joy it should work for you. If your vibration is fear based then you will not be in sync. Most people trying to manifest something are trying to do it from a fear based emotion. They want this because of that reason. They are focused on the because and they are not in a joyful loving place.

It is really hard to explain and :eek: this thread is going around in circles :D

[i am all i am]

That is not in accord with LOA dogma.

There is 'no belief required to manifest' you're doing it all the time by default, for its the neutral "Law of the Universe".

The reason not a slave 'can't manifest' is because he keeps thinking 'he can't manifest'. I'm fascistinated by this circular logic.

AS YOU BELIEVE, SO YOU CONCEIVE.

Everyone creates/manifests their reality specifically because of the belief system that they have. It is not that someone doesn't manifest, they are manifesting the state of belief that they have, that is, 'can't manifest' becomes their reality.

'Law of Attraction' is merely a term used to describe the process of creation/manifestation. The description is not that which is described.


With LOVE.
________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

[i_am]

AS YOU BELIEVE, SO YOU CONCEIVE.

Everyone creates/manifests their reality specifically because of the belief system that they have. It is not that someone doesn't manifest, they are manifesting the state of belief that they have, that is, 'can't manifest' becomes their reality.


With LOVE.
________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

Exactly!!

And that fits very well with my theory of matching the vibration. If you are coming from a low vibration, guess what you are attracting? if your vibration is of love and joy it will be a high vibration so you will attract the same. like attracts like.

[i am all i am]

That's the ad-hominem I was talking about, its built in to the very belief system of the Law of Attraction. Forget the "effects" of reality focus on the "cause". From the perspective of 'the secret', YOU are the cause - that is the definition of ad-hominem, seriously, look it up, its blatant.

Instead of taking on points like 'Did the aborted fetus attract its own fate'?
Some LOA'ers will go to the depths of saying that the fetus attracted such an experience for their understanding.

Instead of taking on points like 'the world is severely controlled and the chemtrail spraying is making my nephew develop asthma", some will say that the nephew is attracting this into his existence because of whatever reason.

A question for you Teslafire.

If not one soul chose to incarnate in this reality/world/illusion, would there be anymore babies ?

Without understanding the pathway (choice/reason for incarnation) of the individuated aspect of ALL THAT IS (the soul), how can we determine whether anything that the incarnated soul experiences is beneficial or detrimental for that particular soul ?


With LOVE.
__________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

[i am all i am]

Exactly!!

And that fits very well with my theory of matching the vibration. If you are coming from a low vibration, guess what you are attracting? if your vibration is of love and joy it will be a high vibration so you will attract the same. like attracts like.

100%.

LOVE creates, fear destroys.

Your mind can only move towards something.

If I say don't think about a bathtub full of mushrooms and marijuana, as your mind works in pictures and cannot paint don't, you automatically picture this in your mind. Hence, you gravitate towards your dominant thoughts.

With LOVE.
_________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

[i_am]

If I say don't think about a bathtub full of mushrooms and marijuana, as your mind works in pictures and cannot paint don't, you automatically picture this in your mind. Hence, you gravitate towards your dominant thoughts.

With LOVE.
_________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

:eek: good on ya! Now all I can think of is a bath full of plants and fungi. Good thing I don't have a bath :D

I said in a previous post that this thread is going around in circles but this is a good thing. At least everyone is thinking.

[i am all i am]

:eek: good on ya! Now all I can think of is a bath full of plants and fungi. Good thing I don't have a bath :D

I said in a previous post that this thread is going around in circles but this is a good thing. At least everyone is thinking.

Life is a circle.

REVOLUTION - revolve + evolution - a circle.


THE REVOLUTION

LIFE IS A REPETITION,
A CIRCLE YOU CAN SEE,
THAT GIVES YOU THE FRUITION,
OF WHO YOU CHOOSE TO BE.

FOR EACH SEASON IS A TURNING,
OF THE SEASONS MOVING THROUGH,
LIFES ETERNAL YEARNING,
TO GIVE TO ME AND YOU.

SO JOIN THE REVOLUTION,
THE CIRCLE TO COMPLETE,
AND ENTER THE CONVERSATION,
IN TIME WITH LIFES HEARTBEAT.

AND YOU CAN REPEAT THE WORD,
TO SHARE A LOVE THAT'S TRUE,
WITH A MESSAGE TO BE HEARD,
OF LOVE EXPRESSED THROUGH YOU.



With LOVE.
__________________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

[tru3]

A question for you Teslafire.

If not one soul chose to incarnate in this reality/world/illusion, would there be anymore babies ?

Without understanding the pathway (choice/reason for incarnation) of the individuated aspect of ALL THAT IS (the soul), how can we determine whether anything that the incarnated soul experiences is beneficial or detrimental for that particular soul ?


With LOVE.
__________________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

this is an excerpt from "destiny of souls 2" a compilation of hundreds of interviews with people, under hypnosis, of their time between incarnations:

The rejuvenation of our energy and personal assessment of one's self takes longer for some souls than others, but eventually the soul is motivated to start the process of incarnation. While our spiritual environment is hard to leave, as souls we also remember the physical pleasures of life on earth with fondness and even nostalgia. When the wounds of a past life are healed and we are again totally at one with ourselves, we feel the pull of having a physical expression for our identity. Training sessions with our counselors and peer groups have provided a collaborative spiritual effort to prepare us for the next life. Our karma of past deeds towards humanity and our mistakes and achievements have all been evaluated with an eye toward the best course of future endeavors. The souls must now assimilate all this information and take purposeful action based upon three primary decisions:

1. Am I ready for a new physical life?

2. What specific lessons do I want to undertake to advance my learning and development?

3. Where should I go, and who shall I be in my next life for the best opportunity to work on my goals?

Once a soul has decided to incarnate again, the next stage in the return process is to be directed to the place of life selection. Souls consider when and where they want to go on earth before making a decision on who they will be in their new life. While some spiritual locales for life selection are difficult for my subjects to describe, they use remarkably similar descriptions. He is told it resembles a movie theater which allows souls to see themselves in the future, playing different roles in various settings.

http://www.nhne.org/news/NewsArticlesArchive/tabid/400/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/2694/Followup-Journey-Of-Souls--Destiny-Of-Souls.aspx

now, take this for what you will. the books are interesting reading. in fact, it resonated very strongly for me precisely because of icke's investigation and writing of the god program. so, please bear with me...

one particular interview caught my attention. the subject described the actual birth of souls; basically we're sort of spun out of this light-filled...um...er...orifice... and incubated like globs of light shaped like eggs! marvelous little celestial energizer bunnies. lol i shit you not. it's not that i don't believe this; actually i do. forgive me for being politically incorrect, but the soul is not the ultimate ground of being. in some asian cosmologies, incarnating as a human was not on the 'a' list, actually :o

i suspect that if we wanted to get off the merry-go-round, we could.

[teslafire]

Absolutely. Everything is perception. Just what is this reality we think we percieve?

Fair enough, then you could say that gaia consciousness is responsible for gravity.


In a way, yes they are, but in a more pragmatic way, no they are not

"the map is not the territory".


The map is a reflection of the terrain, it is a perception of reality.
I thought you said everything is perception? What defines pragmatic, where do you draw the line and make exceptions for this "law"?

And what is your acceptance (or rejection) of the thoughts of others, the realms of the political, the economic, the cultural (ALL things temporal and physical) and the infinate, other than a choice?

To show the mutability of "law", it was once immutable "law" that the universe was a mechanical mechanism, until quantum physics came along and demonstrated that it certainly was not... to be replaced, of course, with the "law" of quantum uncertainty.... which is really nothing else but a recognition of the limitations of tools in relationship with the limitations of their users

Do you think we are manifesting machines for the powers that be?

[notaslave]

With this video the words "Law of Attraction" can be substituted.

The best optical illusion in the world! - YouTube

[thirdwave]

And the fact that its on Oprah...the same woman who spurned Dr. Phil...uhhh, I cringe at the thought.


Personally I don't care if its Bush that was holding the DVD up....its whats on the DVD that counts... If you look to the messenger as judgment then you are leaving your self vulnerable to be mislead all over the place .... all they have to do is get arse holes to hold the DVD up and then all of a sudden confusion is cast among it for the people who are checking the messenger out...



The very definition of pseudoscience is attaching scientific terms like "Law" to perceptions that CANNOT be proven through the scientific method.

It stretches the truth just on its face.

They use testimonials as evidence of support, they rely upon perception, NOT reason. But to me I see very little difference between the fanatic Christian and the fanatic LOA'er because they base their arguments on the false given that they are speaking a great rational truth even though its plainly subjective and irrational


I could not think of more opposite things than Christianity and the Law Of Attraction....

Science has a way of proving everything.... but in its attempt to do so it will simply never end because the universe is endless, the difference is now science is going beyond the place we have allways seen as reality, it will be a never ending task.... but the law of attraction has already got a heavy amount of scientific evidence to it... it can prove that reality.... matter.... changes due to how our minds perceive it....

so when you think of that, along with how we are all made of atoms, which science has proven that are not even solid and are infact just vibrating energy... then you are left with the fact that our minds control a mass of vibrating energy that we all view as reality and our minds are the creators of this energy and we simply create it by seeing it and perceiving it we cant stop doing so, we are always doing it with every single thought.

Christianity is all based on living to the rules and direction of a book. the LOA has no rules...thats the law.... the law is there is no law..... you create, you can be free or you can be a slave ...you can be good, you can be bad .... its your world create what you like, but be careful as if you create something you dont like then no one will un create it for you, no matter how religious you get, there is no man up there waiting to re create your expiriance, and telling you if you dont do as he says you will expiriance hell.... its about you not a religion,

I generally think that ALL religion originally is just collected stories and rightings of how the LOA was explaining its self and how many people over the years where completely connected to it and trying to tell others..... many could actually create miracles using it.... but the true message is now completely lost and the people who started the stories would be frustrated at how people totaly dont get it...

[teslafire]

Personally I don't care if its Bush that was holding the DVD up....its whats on the DVD that counts... If you look to the messenger as judgment then you are leaving your self vulnerable to be mislead all over the place .... all they have to do is get arse holes to hold the DVD up and then all of a sudden confusion is cast among it for the people who are checking the messenger out...

It was a light and catty comment, not a serious statement. However, I was always taught that one should be remain wary and vigilant of the stranger with the yummy candy that makes you feel good.

I could not think of more opposite things than Christianity and the Law Of Attraction....

'Like attracts like'
-Jesus

Science has a way of proving everything.... but in its attempt to do so it will simply never end because the universe is endless, the difference is now science is going beyond the place we have allways seen as reality, it will be a never ending task.... but the law of attraction has already got a heavy amount of scientific evidence to it... it can prove that reality.... matter.... changes due to how our minds perceive it....

You just said science is constantly open for correction and revision and yet you take Lipton's theory to the bank, use it as an ideological cornerstone to support your pre-concieved notions of reality?

Thoughts change matter via action. The more you think about some things the more you will notice oppurtunities in passing that relate to it - that seemingly come out of nowhere. Really its always been there but its like when you find out what a word means and suddenly you hear it everywhere.

What you focus on expands...no doubt, that's the nature of perception, not necessarily the nature of reality.

so when you think of that, along with how we are all made of atoms, which science has proven that are not even solid and are infact just vibrating energy... then you are left with the fact that our minds control a mass of vibrating energy that we all view as reality and our minds are the creators of this energy and we simply create it by seeing it and perceiving it we cant stop doing so, we are always doing it with every single thought.

Quantum physics is not a law, its a theory and any scientist will tell you that.
I think its dangerous to use a theory to prove a preconceived notion. (It like using last year's vaccine for this year's flu.)

This is what Masuru Emoto did with his 'Messages in Water'...he refused to run double blind experiments on his claims which means he's just thrown out the scientific method and cherrypicked his data. Pseudoscience.

So what if we see everything as vibrations, what does that mean? We don't have control over all the frequencies of the matrix, hell your eye only allows you to perceive something like 10% of the known light spectrum.

Besides, you can't justify Newtonian Cause(thought) and Effect(reality) with Quantum theory, its like oil and water, cause and effect is too pedestrian nowadays. The pastiche of officialdom and science to create the illusion of rational faith...

Christianity is all based on living to the rules and direction of a book. the LOA has no rules...thats the law.... the law is there is no law..... you create, you can be free or you can be a slave ...you can be good, you can be bad .... its your world create what you like, but be careful as if you create something you dont like then no one will un create it for you, no matter how religious you get, there is no man up there waiting to re create your expiriance, and telling you if you dont do as he says you will expiriance hell.... its about you not a religion,

"Thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"

Christians think that's the philosophy of the antichrist, freedom from God.

LOA is just a much a half-truth as Christianity. You say it doesn't have the rituals and constant reinforcement like Chrisitianity?

'Do what you want' is the dying credo of Americana, Commercialism, Rock n' Roll...why do you think everyone buys into the LOA so quickly, they've been primed.

This is no different than karma being used to justify the caste system. I believe LOA is merely an incarnation of the root philosophy of Crowley which will eventually manifest, IMO, as the New World Rationalist Faith. LOA promotion is a stepping stone along the way to that goal.

[thirdwave]

It was a light and catty comment, not a serious statement. However, I was always taught that one should be remain wary and vigilant of the stranger with the yummy candy that makes you feel good.



'Like attracts like'
-Jesus



You just said science is constantly open for correction and revision and yet you take Lipton's theory to the bank, use it as an ideological cornerstone to support your pre-concieved notions of reality?

Thoughts change matter via action. The more you think about some things the more you will notice oppurtunities in passing that relate to it - that seemingly come out of nowhere. Really its always been there but its like when you find out what a word means and suddenly you hear it everywhere.

What you focus on expands...no doubt, that's the nature of perception, not necessarily the nature of reality.



Quantum physics is not a law, its a theory and any scientist will tell you that.
I think its dangerous to use a theory to prove a preconceived notion. (It like using last year's vaccine for this year's flu.)

This is what Masuru Emoto did with his 'Messages in Water'...he refused to run double blind experiments on his claims which means he's just thrown out the scientific method and cherrypicked his data. Pseudoscience.

So what if we see everything as vibrations, what does that mean? We don't have control over all the frequencies of the matrix, hell your eye only allows you to perceive something like 10% of the known light spectrum.

Besides, you can't justify Newtonian Cause(thought) and Effect(reality) with Quantum theory, its like oil and water, cause and effect is too pedestrian nowadays. The pastiche of officialdom and science to create the illusion of rational faith...



"Thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"

Christians think that's the philosophy of the antichrist, freedom from God.

LOA is just a much a half-truth as Christianity. You say it doesn't have the rituals and constant reinforcement like Chrisitianity?

'Do what you want' is the dying credo of Americana, Commercialism, Rock n' Roll...why do you think everyone buys into the LOA so quickly, they've been primed.

This is no different than karma being used to justify the caste system. I believe LOA is merely an incarnation of the root philosophy of Crowley which will eventually manifest, IMO, as the New World Rationalist Faith. LOA promotion is a stepping stone along the way to that goal.



However, I was always taught that one should be remain wary and vigilant of the stranger with the yummy candy that makes you feel good.

but your a big boy now and no longer have the disadvantage of being a small defenseless boy ;)


You just said science is constantly open for correction and revision and yet you take Lipton's theory to the bank, use it as an ideological cornerstone to support your pre-concieved notions of reality?

no, this is not what Im saying, the facts I have stated are Facts...discoveries.... Im saying that the questions never end,.... not the ones that have been answered are not solid, IMO your point of view is a little like a debunkers way of seeing it , and because there are still un answered questions, the ones that are very much answered are expected to be ignored??

I am saying that it has been discovered that our perception effects matter in tests that have been executed....... its also a very well known fact that atoms are not solid they are a vibration..... there can be more questions about this of course, but these are still facts.... so this info very much supports "The Secret" but I find when people feel "The Secret" is false they don't really have any facts to support this, they just ignore the facts that do show there is a lot of weight behind this concept.


Thoughts change matter via action
action is the leading edge of thought its just another form of manifestation... and like I say its not only action that effects matter.... our perception effects it, the PC is infront of you because you mind puts it there, not your hands... im speaking to you because you mind has put me here. everything around you is a result of your mind... the concept people cant get their heads around is why is it that so many people see the same perception? if you close your eyes and cant see it...i can still see it... and this is when I think we all have a collective consciousness.... we are all plugged into the same hard drive, but it does not mean we cant make our own programs...


Thoughts change matter via action. The more you think about some things the more you will notice oppurtunities in passing that relate to it - that seemingly come out of nowhere. Really its always been there but its like when you find out what a word means and suddenly you hear it everywhere.

yes, some call it the LOA

What you focus on expands...no doubt, that's the nature of perception, not necessarily the nature of reality.

im not stating what reality is, just stating what is not "reality"...


Quantum physics is not a law, its a theory and any scientist will tell you that.

no wrong, im sure the scientists that work for the "govenment" will be happy to tell people that, as well as how some people will be happy to tell us that we all evolved from apes and that ETEs have never walked the earth..... the same people who say that the twin towers fell on their feet because the steal melted on a few floors...

but the truth is Quantum physics is simply science which involves scientists that have evolved onto a new level of research that can be openly proven to the world.... the only way to argue with them is like I said before...forget about the results they have got, but stating that other questions have not been answered.... there for the "matter is a mystery until we got the whole book of answers written out" theory gets the nod by mr Official.

I think its dangerous to use a theory to prove a preconceived notion. (It like using last year's vaccine for this year's flu.)

but its not preconceived, I know it works as do many people..
also they are not theory's .... they are scientific discovery's that can be proven over and over.... and back they back up beliefs like the LOA which many have spoke of for years... Im not saying its true because Science points that way... which it does, I'm believe it anyway, and Im just stating that not only people swear by it but there is now evidence beginning to surface to back it up.

but you are right its very dangerous to use a theory to prove a preconceived notion ...look at the world we live in, what we were taught about reality in school and what facts did they have?

So what if we see everything as vibrations, what does that mean? We don't have control over all the frequencies of the matrix, hell your eye only allows you to perceive something like 10% of the known light spectrum.

well the point is, people do not have an understanding on everything being a vibration and are there for brought up ignorant to the surrounding's they are really in, what does it mean that everything is a vibration?? ...it means that this world we live in is a tiny part of reality, there for if we only think and perceive within the confinements of it then we are extremely limited. We do have control over all the frequencies of the matrix but if we dont know anything about the matrix then how can we control it?

just because our "eyes" can only see %10 it does not mean we cant see more .... our bodies go beyond a 3 dimensional form anyway and this is another thing we are ignorant to... our eyes only feed us data to our mind ...if they are just weak %10 lenses it does not mean our minds wont greet another forum of data.... same with our ears..nose, nerves, taste....


Besides, you can't justify Newtonian Cause(thought) and Effect(reality) with Quantum theory, its like oil and water

yes you can, its what Quantum Physics is about, its why it exists...its how it came about.... im confused as to why you think this...



LOA is just a much a half-truth as Christianity. You say it doesn't have the rituals and constant reinforcement like Chrisitianity?

sorry I compleaty disagree

how on earth can you compare the LOA to Christianity???.... THAT is like oil and water.... although I think IF Jesus was real, then he would have only been expressing the LOA...but the religion as it is today is completely far from it... with it you are stuck to the rules of the book, made to feel guilt if you stray from it... where the LOA is about compleat Freedom..... no restraints ...you are the creator...you are free to create the life you want... you dont need a god... you don't need a religion... you only need to get in line with the vibration that you love and then get busy, and you dont even have to do that, you can create a horrible unhappy lif if you wish.... this is completely and utterly nothing to do with and nothing at all like Christianity.

why do you think everyone buys into the LOA so quickly

Everyone?? most people think its a load of rubbish and let it go over their heads... because of the internet and word of mouth it has grown... it has not been plastered on every bill board like many mind control programs are...

its just a fancy polished way of explaining it to people, I actually think the DVD is put together great.... i don't buy into all that "its cool to be low budget and underground" ... spend some money on it and kick arse with it , thats what I say.. I think the sound track is great.... they explain the LOA great... and give some great examples of how it works....


I believe LOA is merely an incarnation of the root philosophy of Crowley which will eventually manifest, IMO, as the New World Rationalist Faith. LOA promotion is a stepping stone along the way to that goal.

Crowley was an incredibly smart and well educated man, and completely understood the LOA, what ever his motives and other interests where he still understood... he used it as he saw fit ... and was quite the oposit to a Christian I might add, which contradicts your point that the LOA is very much like Christianity...

thats the wonderfully thing about the LOA .... simply for us all, and we can use it to create what we want... you say it will eventually be a NWR faith... it allready is used by the elite, but your missing the point.... the LOA is not one faith... its simply the way the universe works in relation to us. those who have more understanding of it have more understanding of the universe and more control of there existence.

[tru3]

:) Besides, you can't justify Newtonian Cause(thought) and Effect(reality) with Quantum theory, its like oil and water, cause and effect is too pedestrian nowadays. The pastiche of officialdom and science to create the illusion of rational faith...

then i'm not sure exactly what you're driving at, teslafire. i believe you are making some extremely important points. i agree with many of them, first and foremost the "institutionalization" of spirituality. that was what i was driving at with "the rose" analogy. so i'm just throwing this out in the spirit of free enquiry, and i'd be interested in your response. :)

oil and water. there's a deep split here. isn't that everyone's experience of "reality" at some point in one's life? isn't that, on some fundamental level, why we are all here, having this dialogue in this forum at this time? because we know that on a deep, experiential level, something is very, very wrong with that, it's a lie we have been told? that it is a belief that does not support us, what we know to be true in our hearts?

are you implying that one stop drinking water because only oil is valid? choose one from column a, or one from column b, but not both. this stance suggests a form of quantum indeterminancy intrinsic to the assertion, at least to me. and yes, you're right: quantum mechanics is just a theory. it's built on describing a range of values of a function, not an exact value of that function. this is pretty scary stuff, for a scientist; erwin schrodinger is reported to have said he wished he had never met that cat! :D http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci341236,00.html

quantum theory tends to break down at the macro level; newtonian physics tends to break down at the micro level. i understand that's a pretty sweeping generalization, but it works for me.

so, where does that leave us? back where we started, i think. maybe attempting to reconcile the "pairs of opposites" is just another illusion designed to keep us distracted.

it has been my experience and belief that life is a "both/and" proposition, not an "either/or".

your thoughts?

[shenoma]

Even the title of the book bothers me a lot. It is like some chick wearing a very low shirt, IT IS ONLY A TEASE! The great big secret, is out there for anyone that is truly prepare to pay it and to handle it. It ain't going to be ever sold on some day talk tv show.

[thirdwave]

if people are so bothered by a group of people making some dosh out of spreading the info.... then just go to someone who is not...

>>> http://www.sasktelwebsite.net

its all the same stuff.... if people wana make a buck out of it good luck to em as long as they dont lie.

[john white]

Even the title of the book bothers me a lot. It is like some chick wearing a very low shirt, IT IS ONLY A TEASE! The great big secret, is out there for anyone that is truly prepare to pay it and to handle it. It ain't going to be ever sold on some day talk tv show.

Alternatively, it very well could be, and the reaction you show would be a perfect defense mechanism shenoma. Its all part of the myth of the all powerful illuminati, when the reality is a bunch of magikal spin doctors out for themselves. History is replete with couragous truth tellers who have found their words falling on deaf ears, precisely becuase it was truth they were a-telling, which is usually the last thing mind trapped in "the eggshell" (Icke's phrase for the energy ego) wants to hear about

[shenoma]

If its sold by the system... why did it take a huge online marketing plan to bring it into the mainstream? ...it was word of mouth that made it huge.... I saw it grow from a small website to the huge thing it is now...

why was it not on the BBC as a cool documentary from word go?? .
you only need to look at the Devinci code to see something that has been pushed by the elite... I will agree "The Secret" was to make a buck, and was very polished to really get to people.... but i don't see the harm.... its a start ...its a start that this DVD is so well known, that people are so interested and taken by it... its a start that David Icke gets to speak out on Chanel 5 ..twice.... this did not happen 10-20 years ago.... why did the elite not get all this out back then? ...because it was easier to hide altogether and not as much public demand.

I think people flatter the elite to much... since the internet has come out and spread more info they have had no choice but to allow stuff, to try and hide it all would only expose them selfs more...... all they can do know is throw other stuff out there so there is so much info it over whelms people, in the hope people just let it go over their head....
the elite strongest trick is hiding the truth under peoples noses....

People talk about the net finally getting the real info finally out there. Guess who made it? And why it ever existance was allow to start in the first place? A simple answer to both: The power people and for the sake of the nukes could still be launch from anywhere.

The truth can't be bought, sold, or traded because it is the truest reality, the law that not even god can brake.

[john white]

Absolutely. Everything is perception. Just what is this reality we think we percieve?

Fair enough, then you could say that gaia consciousness is responsible for gravity.

The planet is conscious: but I wouldnt claim to know what that consciousness is: could you? Can any of us? If Gaia was a person, we are microbes: relatively speaking. We (human beings) are comprised of hundreds of millions of microscopic organisms in a symbiotic relationship after all: though of course, they are all physical manifestations of energy too. Do we really understand gravity? Or Space/Time? I doubt it: and apparently we never noticed things fell down when dropped until an apple struck Newtons bonce. No I dont buy that either!

In a way, yes they are, but in a more pragmatic way, no they are not

"the map is not the territory".


The map is a reflection of the terrain, it is a perception of reality.
I thought you said everything is perception? What defines pragmatic, where do you draw the line and make exceptions for this "law"?

We all draw our own lines teslafire: some use pencil and an eraser (better not use "rubber" in a transatlantic convo LOL) , some indelible ink. Pragmatism is, by definition, whatever works

And what is your acceptance (or rejection) of the thoughts of others, the realms of the political, the economic, the cultural (ALL things temporal and physical) and the infinate, other than a choice?

To show the mutability of "law", it was once immutable "law" that the universe was a mechanical mechanism, until quantum physics came along and demonstrated that it certainly was not... to be replaced, of course, with the "law" of quantum uncertainty.... which is really nothing else but a recognition of the limitations of tools in relationship with the limitations of their users

Do you think we are manifesting machines for the powers that be?

I have no doubt that "they" like to think of the bulk of humanity that way. And I have no doubt that the infinite has a far superior POV

[thirdwave]

People talk about the net finally getting the real info finally out there. Guess who made it? And why it ever existance was allow to start in the first place? A simple answer to both: The power people and for the sake of the nukes could still be launch from anywhere.

The truth can't be bought, sold, or traded because it is the truest reality, the law that not even god can brake.



the matrix is now having to deal with code it does not like.... things like "The Secret" what ever its motives are... its still a code the matrix would much rather not have to deal with.

[shenoma]

very concisely put.



Ad hominem
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Cite This Source


An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument. It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument.

Other common subtypes of the ad hominem include the ad hominem circumstantial, or ad hominem circumstantiae, an attack which is directed at the circumstances or situation of the arguer; and the ad hominem tu quoque, which objects to an argument by characterizing the arguer as being guilty of the same thing that he is arguing against.

Ad hominem as logical fallacy
A (fallacious) ad hominem argument has the basic form:

Person A makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person A
Therefore claim X is false
Ad hominem is one of the best known of the logical fallacies usually enumerated in introductory logic and critical thinking textbooks. Both the fallacy itself, and accusations of having committed it, are often brandished in actual discourse (see also Argument from fallacy). As a technique of rhetoric, it is powerful and used often, despite its inherent incorrectness, because of the natural inclination of the human brain to recognize patterns.

In contrast, an argument that instead relies (fallaciously) on the positive aspects of the person arguing the case is known as appeal to authority.

Usage
In logic
An ad hominem fallacy consists of asserting that someone's argument is wrong and/or he is wrong to argue at all purely because of something discreditable/not-authoritative about the person or those persons cited by him rather than addressing the soundness of the argument itself. The implication is that the person's argument and/or ability to argue correctly lacks authority. Merely insulting another person in the middle of otherwise rational discourse does not necessarily constitute an ad hominem fallacy. It must be clear that the purpose of the characterization is to discredit the person offering the argument, and, specifically, to invite others to discount his arguments. In the past, the term ad hominem was sometimes used more literally, to describe an argument that was based on an individual, or to describe any personal attack. However, this is not how the meaning of the term is typically introduced in modern logic and rhetoric textbooks, and logicians and rhetoricians are in agreement that this use is incorrect.
Examples:

"You claim that this man is innocent, but you cannot be trusted since you are a criminal as well."

"You feel that abortion should be illegal, but I disagree, because you are uneducated and poor."
Not all ad hominem fallacies are insulting:

Example:

"Paula says the umpire made the correct call, but this can't be true, because Paula was doing more important things than watching the game."
This is an ad hominem fallacy, even though it is saying something positive about the person, because it is addressing the person and not the topic in dispute.

Colloquially
In common language, any personal attack, regardless of whether it is part of an argument, is often referred to as ad hominem.
Subtypes
Three traditionally identified varieties are ad hominem abusive or ad personam, ad hominem circumstantial, and ad hominem tu quoque.
Ad hominem abusive or ad personam
Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and most notoriously involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensibly damning character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions. This tactic is frequently employed as a propaganda tool among politicians who are attempting to influence the voter base in their favor through an appeal to emotion rather than by logical means, especially when their own position is logically weaker than their opponent's.
Examples:


"You can't believe Jack when he says there is a God because he doesn't even have a job."
"Charles Manson wrote this song, so it must be unlistenable".
"Candidate Jane Jones' proposal X is ridiculous. She was caught cheating on her taxes in 2003."
"People who oppose the war are cowards."

Ad hominem circumstantial
Ad hominem circumstantial involves pointing out that someone is in circumstances such that he is disposed to take a particular position. Essentially, ad hominem circumstantial constitutes an attack on the bias of a person. The reason that this is fallacious is that pointing out that one's opponent is disposed to make a certain argument does not make the argument, from a logical point of view, any less credible; this overlaps with the genetic fallacy (an argument that a claim is incorrect due to its source). Noting the opponent's bias is not necessarily irrational, but neither is it strictly correct according to logic. This illustrates one of the differences between rationality and logic.
Examples:


"Tobacco company representatives are wrong when they say smoking doesn't seriously affect your health, because they're just defending their own multi-million-dollar financial interests."

"He's physically addicted to nicotine. Of course he defends smoking!”
Of course, such statements could also be reworded to avoid the logical fallacy:


"Tobacco company representatives may be biased when they say smoking doesn't seriously affect your health, because of their own multi-million-dollar financial interests. Thus, such statements may be wishful thinking, or even outright lies, on their part."

"He's physically addicted to nicotine. Therefore, his defense of smoking may be biased.”
In the following example Jennifer's comment is an ad hominem circumstantial attack against Chris's statement:


Chris: "Women should be able to be topless everywhere men can be."

Jennifer: "You're just saying that because you want to see women's breasts."
The Mandy Rice-Davies ploy, "Well, he would [say that], wouldn't he?" is a use of this fallacy.

Ad hominem tu quoque
Ad hominem tu quoque refers to an irrelevant accusation of hypocrisy. Accusations of hypocrisy are inadmissible in legal and scientific debate, and can be distractions from the business of politics. That is, it is not relevant to the credibility of a didactic argument whether its presenter has trod over the principle he espouses. For example, a corrupt lawyer who prosecutes embezzlers may be a sleaze, but in a properly organized legal system there can be no arguments against his defendant just because of that.
Guilt by Association
Guilt by Association is a type of ad hominem fallacy that attacks a person because of the similarity between the views of someone making an argument and other proponents of the argument.

This form of the argument is as follows:

A makes claim P.
B's also make claim P.
Therefore, A is a B.
Examples:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable, but communists also say this, therefore you are a communist"

"Conservatives are against abortion, but let us not forget that Hitler was also against abortion, therefore conservatives are Hitlers-in-training." (see reductio ad Hitlerum)
This fallacy can also take another form:

A makes claim P.
B's make claims P and Q
Therefore, A makes claim Q.
Examples:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable, but communists also say this, and they believe in revolution. Thus, you are a danger to the State."
Argumentum Baculum
Argumentum Baculum is a type of ad hominem fallacy that is sustained by the use or threat of physical force against the proponent of an argument rather than the strength of an opposing argument.

Examples:

"I did not believe anarchism was a sustainable political system, but then Bill beat me with a stick until I agreed"
Taxonomy
The argumentum ad hominem is a genetic fallacy and red herring, and is often (but not necessarily) an appeal to emotion. Argumentum ad hominem includes poisoning the well.

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Ad_hominem

[shenoma]

But whoever said logic is the tool to understand the universe? It's an entirely illusionary creation of mind

After all of your hard work and years of study that is the best you got?:p :cool:

[shenoma]

I quite agree that there is a profound difficulty in thinking our way into understading what lies beyond thought. One cell cannot comprehend the entire brain, on soul cannot comprehend the entire of the creator: but we can comprehend what we can comprehend, as defined by our inherant potential. And intuitively (that is, from knowing that feels and is at peace with not being subject to proof) I would venture that the essence of God is what thought is created out of: that is to say, thought is the result, not the originator



Here is a thought: what if feelings are bigger and wider then thoughts could ever be? Answer that one, pretty please.

[shenoma]

And what is the brick wall made of eternal spirit? "Atoms"? And what are atoms made of? electrons and nuclei? and what are they made of? nothing, baring a pattern of energy

We exist in an energy field designed(in my perception) to create the ability to believe this world is physical: when all of scientific and spirtual knowledge (theres not really a difference btw) leads us inexorably to the understanding that it is not. Run at a brick wall and hit your head: your body will create the experiance (as per the programme enacted by the DNA and RNA) that you have hit a solid object: but you have not: energy feilds have meerly interacted and repelled each other, with the resulting disruption to the balance of those energy fields experianced as a split skull

Besides which, spirits walk through walls all the time: on dimensional frequencies even immediately adjascent to this one, there is no wall, and there never has been:and there are an infinity of dimensional frequencies
The brickwall is real and how ever fancy ways you love or like to say otherwise. When you are inside the matrix you still have to play by the rules because the nice little pretend bullet can still can kill you while your inside. Unless you are Neo, which case you die in the end anyways.

[tru3]

Alternatively, it very well could be, and the reaction you show would be a perfect defense mechanism shenoma. Its all part of the myth of the all powerful illuminati, when the reality is a bunch of magikal spin doctors out for themselves. History is replete with couragous truth tellers who have found their words falling on deaf ears, precisely becuase it was truth they were a-telling, which is usually the last thing mind trapped in "the eggshell" (Icke's phrase for the energy ego) wants to hear about

We're Not Gonna Take It lyrics by WHO, THE
Welcome to the camp,
I guess you all know why we're here
My name is Tommy, and I became aware this year
If you want to follow me, you've got to play pinball
And put in your ear plugs, put on your eye shades
You know where to put the cork

Hey you gettin drunk, so sorry, I got you sussed
Hey you smokin mother nature, this is a bust
Hey hung up old Mr. Normal don't try to gain my trust
'Cause you ain't gonna follow me any of those ways all though you think you must

We're not gonna take it
We're not gonna take it
We're not gonna take it
We're not gonna take it
We're not gonna take it, never did and never will
We're not gonna take it, gonna break it, gonna shake it, let's forget it better still

Now you can't hear me, your ears are truly sealed
You can't speak either, your mouth is filled
You can't hear nothing, and pinball completes the scene
Here comes Uncle Ernie to guide you to your very own machine

We're not gonna take it
We're not gonna take it
We're not gonna take it
We're not gonna take it
We're not gonna take it, never did and never will
Don't want no religion, not as far as we can tell
We ain't gonna take you never did and never will
We forsake you, gonna rape you, let's forget you better still
We forsake you, gonna rape you, let's forget you better still

See me, feel me, touch me, heal me
See me, feel me, touch me, heal me
See me, feel me, touch me, heal me
See me, feel me, touch me, heal me

Listening to you I get the music
Gazing at you, I get the heat
Following you I climb the mountain
I get excitment at your feet
Right behind you I see the millions
On you I see the glory
From you I get opinions
From you I get the story
(till fade)

fade, indeed.

[shenoma]

Have never gone along with any dogma :)




ummm! Isn't that what I said?

Who was it said, " if you think you can, or think you can't, you are right." Somethin' like that anyway :p

I also said 'imagine' as in dream, visualise. Everything is vibration and when your vibration is insync with the universal vibration, manifestation is a natural thing. The universal vibration is LOVE therefore if you are vibrating with love and joy it should work for you. If your vibration is fear based then you will not be in sync. Most people trying to manifest something are trying to do it from a fear based emotion. They want this because of that reason. They are focused on the because and they are not in a joyful loving place.

It is really hard to explain and :eek: this thread is going around in circles :D

Yeah, it is and people do love to hear themselves speak.

[john white]

But whoever said logic is the tool to understand the universe? It's an entirely illusionary creation of mind

After all of your hard work and years of study that is the best you got?:p :cool:

Didint know I was being "tested": and I'd be indifferent if I was. I stand by the statement though, logic is only a tool, a way of thinking, it has no objective truth

Here is a thought: what if feelings are bigger and wider then thoughts could ever be? Answer that one, pretty please.

But of course they are. Over dependence on either is imbalance though. Consciousness is the observer of both, and it is always still at the centre

The brickwall is real and how ever fancy ways you love or like to say otherwise. When you are inside the matrix you still have to play by the rules because the nice little pretend bullet can still can kill you while your inside. Unless you are Neo, which case you die in the end anyways.

We all "die" in the end: its still better to "know" where we are, and have a better experiance as a result

[thoth]

Ad hominem
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Cite This Source


An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument. It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument.

Other common subtypes of the ad hominem include the ad hominem circumstantial, or ad hominem circumstantiae, an attack which is directed at the circumstances or situation of the arguer; and the ad hominem tu quoque, which objects to an argument by characterizing the arguer as being guilty of the same thing that he is arguing against.

Ad hominem as logical fallacy
A (fallacious) ad hominem argument has the basic form:

Person A makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person A
Therefore claim X is false
Ad hominem is one of the best known of the logical fallacies usually enumerated in introductory logic and critical thinking textbooks. Both the fallacy itself, and accusations of having committed it, are often brandished in actual discourse (see also Argument from fallacy). As a technique of rhetoric, it is powerful and used often, despite its inherent incorrectness, because of the natural inclination of the human brain to recognize patterns.

In contrast, an argument that instead relies (fallaciously) on the positive aspects of the person arguing the case is known as appeal to authority.

Usage
In logic
An ad hominem fallacy consists of asserting that someone's argument is wrong and/or he is wrong to argue at all purely because of something discreditable/not-authoritative about the person or those persons cited by him rather than addressing the soundness of the argument itself. The implication is that the person's argument and/or ability to argue correctly lacks authority. Merely insulting another person in the middle of otherwise rational discourse does not necessarily constitute an ad hominem fallacy. It must be clear that the purpose of the characterization is to discredit the person offering the argument, and, specifically, to invite others to discount his arguments. In the past, the term ad hominem was sometimes used more literally, to describe an argument that was based on an individual, or to describe any personal attack. However, this is not how the meaning of the term is typically introduced in modern logic and rhetoric textbooks, and logicians and rhetoricians are in agreement that this use is incorrect.
Examples:

"You claim that this man is innocent, but you cannot be trusted since you are a criminal as well."

"You feel that abortion should be illegal, but I disagree, because you are uneducated and poor."
Not all ad hominem fallacies are insulting:

Example:

"Paula says the umpire made the correct call, but this can't be true, because Paula was doing more important things than watching the game."
This is an ad hominem fallacy, even though it is saying something positive about the person, because it is addressing the person and not the topic in dispute.

Colloquially
In common language, any personal attack, regardless of whether it is part of an argument, is often referred to as ad hominem.
Subtypes
Three traditionally identified varieties are ad hominem abusive or ad personam, ad hominem circumstantial, and ad hominem tu quoque.
Ad hominem abusive or ad personam
Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and most notoriously involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensibly damning character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions. This tactic is frequently employed as a propaganda tool among politicians who are attempting to influence the voter base in their favor through an appeal to emotion rather than by logical means, especially when their own position is logically weaker than their opponent's.
Examples:


"You can't believe Jack when he says there is a God because he doesn't even have a job."
"Charles Manson wrote this song, so it must be unlistenable".
"Candidate Jane Jones' proposal X is ridiculous. She was caught cheating on her taxes in 2003."
"People who oppose the war are cowards."

Ad hominem circumstantial
Ad hominem circumstantial involves pointing out that someone is in circumstances such that he is disposed to take a particular position. Essentially, ad hominem circumstantial constitutes an attack on the bias of a person. The reason that this is fallacious is that pointing out that one's opponent is disposed to make a certain argument does not make the argument, from a logical point of view, any less credible; this overlaps with the genetic fallacy (an argument that a claim is incorrect due to its source). Noting the opponent's bias is not necessarily irrational, but neither is it strictly correct according to logic. This illustrates one of the differences between rationality and logic.
Examples:


"Tobacco company representatives are wrong when they say smoking doesn't seriously affect your health, because they're just defending their own multi-million-dollar financial interests."

"He's physically addicted to nicotine. Of course he defends smoking!”
Of course, such statements could also be reworded to avoid the logical fallacy:


"Tobacco company representatives may be biased when they say smoking doesn't seriously affect your health, because of their own multi-million-dollar financial interests. Thus, such statements may be wishful thinking, or even outright lies, on their part."

"He's physically addicted to nicotine. Therefore, his defense of smoking may be biased.”
In the following example Jennifer's comment is an ad hominem circumstantial attack against Chris's statement:


Chris: "Women should be able to be topless everywhere men can be."

Jennifer: "You're just saying that because you want to see women's breasts."
The Mandy Rice-Davies ploy, "Well, he would [say that], wouldn't he?" is a use of this fallacy.

Ad hominem tu quoque
Ad hominem tu quoque refers to an irrelevant accusation of hypocrisy. Accusations of hypocrisy are inadmissible in legal and scientific debate, and can be distractions from the business of politics. That is, it is not relevant to the credibility of a didactic argument whether its presenter has trod over the principle he espouses. For example, a corrupt lawyer who prosecutes embezzlers may be a sleaze, but in a properly organized legal system there can be no arguments against his defendant just because of that.
Guilt by Association
Guilt by Association is a type of ad hominem fallacy that attacks a person because of the similarity between the views of someone making an argument and other proponents of the argument.

This form of the argument is as follows:

A makes claim P.
B's also make claim P.
Therefore, A is a B.
Examples:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable, but communists also say this, therefore you are a communist"

"Conservatives are against abortion, but let us not forget that Hitler was also against abortion, therefore conservatives are Hitlers-in-training." (see reductio ad Hitlerum)
This fallacy can also take another form:

A makes claim P.
B's make claims P and Q
Therefore, A makes claim Q.
Examples:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable, but communists also say this, and they believe in revolution. Thus, you are a danger to the State."
Argumentum Baculum
Argumentum Baculum is a type of ad hominem fallacy that is sustained by the use or threat of physical force against the proponent of an argument rather than the strength of an opposing argument.

Examples:

"I did not believe anarchism was a sustainable political system, but then Bill beat me with a stick until I agreed"
Taxonomy
The argumentum ad hominem is a genetic fallacy and red herring, and is often (but not necessarily) an appeal to emotion. Argumentum ad hominem includes poisoning the well.

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Ad_hominem



What is the point of you writing these long winded quotes? I guess that you think that it is the end to all arguments huh? How big is your ego, really?

[shenoma]

Personally I don't care if its Bush that was holding the DVD up....its whats on the DVD that counts... If you look to the messenger as judgment then you are leaving your self vulnerable to be mislead all over the place .... all they have to do is get arse holes to hold the DVD up and then all of a sudden confusion is cast among it for the people who are checking the messenger out...






I could not think of more opposite things than Christianity and the Law Of Attraction....

Science has a way of proving everything.... but in its attempt to do so it will simply never end because the universe is endless, the difference is now science is going beyond the place we have allways seen as reality, it will be a never ending task.... but the law of attraction has already got a heavy amount of scientific evidence to it... it can prove that reality.... matter.... changes due to how our minds perceive it....

so when you think of that, along with how we are all made of atoms, which science has proven that are not even solid and are infact just vibrating energy...

But, the but is rarely talk about, there are set patterns to the energy that makes up this reality with the rest of the other realities. Why they were created is the big mystery.

[john white]

As the fan of irony that am I, and as a fella unfortunate enough to debate (as in pwn) JREF'ers on occasion, the most common ad hominem argument used on the internet is the attack on the person by claiming their argument is ad hominem. One has to love it! (as in, one couldnt make it up! :) )

[shenoma]

This is no different than karma being used to justify the caste system. I believe LOA is merely an incarnation of the root philosophy of Crowley which will eventually manifest, IMO, as the New World Rationalist Faith. LOA promotion is a stepping stone along the way to that goal.


Everything has good points and bad points. There is nothing wrong with having a caste system, it just got misuse along the way.:mad:

[shenoma]

Alternatively, it very well could be, and the reaction you show would be a perfect defense mechanism shenoma. You misinterpret of what I said is wrong. What I meant was, to get the the secrect is very hard road to travel, you can't simply turn on to some daytime tv show that the host is showing the great SECRET, and then buy it with a credit card. Its all part of the myth of the all powerful illuminati, when the reality Reality is a one hard bitch to explain and to live with what you find out about it. is a bunch of magikal spin doctors out for themselves. The Illuminati is just doing their job is all. History is replete with couragous truth tellers It is simply their timing was off, people wasn't ready or willing to hear them out. who have found their words falling on deaf ears, precisely becuase it was truth they were a-telling, which is usually the last thing mind trapped in "the eggshell" (Icke's phrase for the energy ego) wants to hear about Of course, it's like when people are drinking and getting drunk they don't want or need the dry people to preach to them about the dangers of alcohol.

[shenoma]

the matrix is now having to deal with code it does not like.... things like "The Secret" what ever its motives are... its still a code the matrix would much rather not have to deal with.


The matrix with code was a movie.

[shenoma]

:rolleyes: Didint know I was being "tested": and I'd be indifferent if I was. I stand by the statement though, logic is only a tool, a way of thinking, it has no objective truth



But of course they are. Over dependence on either is imbalance though. Consciousness is the observer of both, and it is always still at the centre



We all "die" in the end: its still better to "know" where we are, and have a better experiance as a result

But you skipped right over my main point, the brickwall is still real. You simply just said some deep thought you had about some grander point, I didn't even bring up. We all die in the end, but the brickwall will still remain.

[shenoma]

What is the point of you writing these long winded quotes? I guess that you think that it is the end to all arguments huh? How big is your ego, really?

I didn't write it, I just pasted it from dictionary.com, I didn't know what they person was talking about, and guess other people might not know has well, and just wanted to give people info, was all. Hell no, I was just trying educate was all.

It's quite big, I have found most people aren't up to my level because they choice the easy road. I have earned my ego, it's good to have one because it serves an important function.

[teslafire]

no, this is not what Im saying, the facts I have stated are Facts...discoveries.... Im saying that the questions never end,.... not the ones that have been answered are not solid, IMO your point of view is a little like a debunkers way of seeing it , and because there are still un answered questions, the ones that are very much answered are expected to be ignored??

I am saying that it has been discovered that our perception effects matter in tests that have been executed....... its also a very well known fact that atoms are not solid they are a vibration..... there can be more questions about this of course, but these are still facts.... so this info very much supports "The Secret" but I find when people feel "The Secret" is false they don't really have any facts to support this, they just ignore the facts that do show there is a lot of weight behind this concept.

Find me the tests, show me that you haven't garnered all your info second-hand or hearsay. The fact that everything is vibration doesn't automatically mean you've control over it.


Thoughts change matter via action
action is the leading edge of thought its just another form of manifestation... and like I say its not only action that effects matter.... our perception effects it, the PC is infront of you because you mind puts it there, not your hands... im speaking to you because you mind has put me here. everything around you is a result of your mind... the concept people cant get their heads around is why is it that so many people see the same perception? if you close your eyes and cant see it...i can still see it... and this is when I think we all have a collective consciousness.... we are all plugged into the same hard drive, but it does not mean we cant make our own programs...

So basically you're saying action completes a thought...next you'll be telling me how to tie my showlaces...this doesn't prove that thoughts magnetize atoms...that would be telekinesis.

i'm not stating what reality is, just stating what is not "reality"...

No you're plainly stating what you think of the nature of reality is, that thoughts magnetize atoms and so on.

no wrong, im sure the scientists that work for the "govenment" will be happy to tell people that, as well as how some people will be happy to tell us that we all evolved from apes and that ETEs have never walked the earth..... the same people who say that the twin towers fell on their feet because the steal melted on a few floors...

but the truth is Quantum physics is simply science which involves scientists that have evolved onto a new level of research that can be openly proven to the world.... the only way to argue with them is like I said before...forget about the results they have got, but stating that other questions have not been answered.... there for the "matter is a mystery until we got the whole book of answers written out" theory gets the nod by mr Official.

lol

There's some leaping logic and blind faith if I've ever seen it.
All scientists who criticize the new age conclusions of quantum physics work for the government...yeah, okay...

And do you believe everything 'what the bleep do we know' (funded by the Ramtha cult) says is immutable truth, just scrathing the surface of reality?

Like I said, Emoto is a fraud.

but its not preconceived, I know it works as do many people..also they are not theory's .... they are scientific discovery's that can be proven over and over.... and back they back up beliefs like the LOA which many have spoke of for years... Im not saying its true because Science points that way... which it does, I'm believe it anyway, and Im just stating that not only people swear by it but there is now evidence beginning to surface to back it up.

Okay I understand that distinction, I just wanted to make sure.
So, this evidence...want to introduce Bruce Lipton now?

well the point is, people do not have an understanding on everything being a vibration and are there for brought up ignorant to the surrounding's they are really in, what does it mean that everything is a vibration?? ...it means that this world we live in is a tiny part of reality, there for if we only think and perceive within the confinements of it then we are extremely limited. We do have control over all the frequencies of the matrix but if we dont know anything about the matrix then how can we control it?

just because our "eyes" can only see %10 it does not mean we cant see more .... our bodies go beyond a 3 dimensional form anyway and this is another thing we are ignorant to... our eyes only feed us data to our mind ...if they are just weak %10 lenses it does not mean our minds wont greet another forum of data.... same with our ears..nose, nerves, taste....

The point is that there are limitations. Can you make your physical spacesuit live forever, never age, never lose hair etc?

If not then you've just conceded that there are other forces at play than your simple attraction...its that simple.

sorry I compleaty disagree

Why are you sorry? :)

how on earth can you compare the LOA to Christianity???.... THAT is like oil and water.... although I think IF Jesus was real, then he would have only been expressing the LOA...but the religion as it is today is completely far from it... with it you are stuck to the rules of the book, made to feel guilt if you stray from it... where the LOA is about compleat Freedom..... no restraints ...you are the creator...you are free to create the life you want... you dont need a god... you don't need a religion... you only need to get in line with the vibration that you love and then get busy, and you dont even have to do that, you can create a horrible unhappy lif if you wish.... this is completely and utterly nothing to do with and nothing at all like Christianity.

I think that is a superficial comparison. First off, you have restraints in attracting matter, as we just established, so most of you said is just plain rhetoric.

To you LOA, the principle, is the saviour that has the ability to trump all situations and circumstances to 'save the day'. To Christians the fairytale saviour is Jesus. They are both lies that placate the masses, a way to keep them feeding into the culture around them, the culture that is designed to disconnect you from 'source', IMO. The culture of today, the ethic of consumerism creates the kind of codes and behaviour regulation that you would find in the bible, they are all tied together by the 'do what you feel' oversensitivity, emotionally based decision making that advertisers love... The Secret is not new, its been around in various incarnations forever. You create your own reality dogma has been increasingly produced since 'the aquarian age began right after WW2.

And what do you think karma and dharma are? 'As you reap so you shall so'. "What you focus on expands". See the pattern.

And what are all the gods of wealth and happiness were for in Hinduism. They were models to guide your meditation, the communion or prayer to god; the creative visualization of the LOA.

[jimijams]

Thoughts change matter via action. The more you think about some things the more you will notice oppurtunities in passing that relate to it - that seemingly come out of nowhere. Really its always been there but its like when you find out what a word means and suddenly you hear it everywhere.
Lets say if you put your thoughts to work manifesting a new house, all of a sudden you come across an oppurtunity for a second job hence more income, you start noticing great mortgage deals everywhere and now you have a second job they're looking more affordable. You find the perfect house in a great neighbourhood at a good price so you dive in.
Congratulations you manifested a house. Is this the LOA or cause and effect?
Whats the difference?

[john white]

We all "die" in the end: its still better to "know" where we are, and have a better experiance as a result

But you skipped right over my main point, the brickwall is still real. You simply just said some deep thought you had about some grander point, I didn't even bring up. We all die in the end, but the brickwall will still remain.

Did you not? Seemed to me that you did

The brickwall is real and how ever fancy ways you love or like to say otherwise. When you are inside the matrix you still have to play by the rules because the nice little pretend bullet can still can kill you while your inside. Unless you are Neo, which case you die in the end anyways.

its still better to "know" where we are, and have a better experiance as a result

Seems to cover it to me: in just the same way as its better to know the planet is a globe that orbits the sun, one solar system in countless solar systems in millions of galaxies, and not flat land in the centre of the universe

The Illuminati is just doing their job is all

I'll happily dispute that. Theyve lost their way, equally valid POV

It's quite big, I have found most people aren't up to my level because they choice the easy road. I have earned my ego, it's good to have one because it serves an important function.

Beware! Bannana skins ahead! (meant with great kindness). The ego needs a whipping to know who's boss or it'll pull on its leash: if not run away entirely

And nothing lasts "for ever", including brick walls. Only a bare handful make it past a couple of hundred cycles: and "time" gets 'em all: guarenteed!

[tru3]

What is the point of you writing these long winded quotes? I guess that you think that it is the end to all arguments huh? How big is your ego, really?

thanks, thoth. i'm sure there was a point in there somewhere, but it got by me. right over my head! :rolleyes:

care to elaborate, in your own words?

really, it's ok; you can use me as a sounding board. when i first found the old icke forum, i was cutting and pasting away happily, too. i still like to post song lyrics, but we must be careful these days, musn't we? we wouldn't want the free exchange of ideas to expand, now would we?

[thirdwave]

Find me the tests, show me that you haven't garnered all your info second-hand or hearsay. The fact that everything is vibration doesn't automatically mean you've control over it.



So basically you're saying action completes a thought...next you'll be telling me how to tie my showlaces...this doesn't prove that thoughts magnetize atoms...that would be telekinesis.



No you're plainly stating what you think of the nature of reality is, that thoughts magnetize atoms and so on.



lol

There's some leaping logic and blind faith if I've ever seen it.
All scientists who criticize the new age conclusions of quantum physics work for the government...yeah, okay...

And do you believe everything 'what the bleep do we know' (funded by the Ramtha cult) says is immutable truth, just scrathing the surface of reality?

Like I said, Emoto is a fraud.



Okay I understand that distinction, I just wanted to make sure.
So, this evidence...want to introduce Bruce Lipton now?



The point is that there are limitations. Can you make your physical spacesuit live forever, never age, never lose hair etc?

If not then you've just conceded that there are other forces at play than your simple attraction...its that simple.



Why are you sorry? :)



I think that is a superficial comparison. First off, you have restraints in attracting matter, as we just established, so most of you said is just plain rhetoric.

To you LOA, the principle, is the saviour that has the ability to trump all situations and circumstances to 'save the day'. To Christians the fairytale saviour is Jesus. They are both lies that placate the masses, a way to keep them feeding into the culture around them, the culture that is designed to disconnect you from 'source', IMO. The culture of today, the ethic of consumerism creates the kind of codes and behaviour regulation that you would find in the bible, they are all tied together by the 'do what you feel' oversensitivity, emotionally based decision making that advertisers love... The Secret is not new, its been around in various incarnations forever. You create your own reality dogma has been increasingly produced since 'the aquarian age began right after WW2.

And what do you think karma and dharma are? 'As you reap so you shall so'. "What you focus on expands". See the pattern.

And what are all the gods of wealth and happiness were for in Hinduism. They were models to guide your meditation, the communion or prayer to god; the creative visualization of the LOA.


Find me the tests, show me that you haven't garnered all your info second-hand or hearsay. The fact that everything is vibration doesn't automatically mean you've control over it.

well if you refuse to believe they are telling the truth, thats your choice... But because I believe in it anyway and have expirianced it, when they tell me, I am immediately convinced because it makes perfect sence... everything can be hear say if you dont believe it.

there tests say that we not only have control over the vibrations but we cause the vibrations.... there are books that fully expalin all this and how it works... not the kind of thing most people can read and get their heads around though...

you should also note that an old Chap called Buddha has been banging on about this for quite some time now ... but again you can call that hear say if you dont want to believe it.


So basically you're saying action completes a thought...next you'll be telling me how to tie my showlaces...this doesn't prove that thoughts magnetize atoms...that would be telekinesis.

You could say action compleats thought although im not really sure what a compleat thought is...

The fact that we are the leading edge of thought does not prove that thoughts magnetize atoms no, it suggests that it may be the case, what does prove it(if you except these scientists are not lieing) is that tests have been carried out that HAVE proven that (im not sure if magnetize is the best word , but our perception, our contiousness effects atoms, changes their behavior ... it also effects our DNA ... and yes objects outside of us... under a magnified glass yes you could call it a type of telekinesis...

Like I say I believe that there was a time when humans used %100 of their DNA and brains, and could totally do telekinesis..

No you're plainly stating what you think of the nature of reality is, that thoughts magnetize atoms and so on.

:)... yes I guess I am stating what I think the NATURE of reality is...not claiming I know what reality is as everyones is different.... I am saying that the reality people think they know is false because they are not educated with this info...



lol

There's some leaping logic and blind faith if I've ever seen it.
All scientists who criticize the new age conclusions of quantum physics work for the government...yeah, okay...

And do you believe everything 'what the bleep do we know' (funded by the Ramtha cult) says is immutable truth, just scrathing the surface of reality?

Like I said, Emoto is a fraud.

if they want to critisise it, then show people tests that claim the quantum physics are false....... in the same way as if they want to prove the offical 9/11 story is real, then provide evidence to do away with the endless questions rased.... very simple.

also like I have said to you... My faith is not based on what the tests have said to me... I had the belief anyway from first hand expiriance..... there for I choose to view people who claim its all a hoax as either un knowledgeable about it... or trying to cover it up.... and im free to have this view, as you are free to think that Emoto is a fraud.... although that accusation to me is compleatly and utterly not true.


ok then so what hear say have you got that it was funded by the funded by the Ramtha cult?.... and why does this automatically state that the movie is a fraud?

what do you know about the Ramtha cult??... how do you know they funnded it?

So, this evidence...want to introduce Bruce Lipton now?

I am not to fussed who is getting the info out ...dont care about their back ground ..... I judge the tree by its fruit .... the world is in a compleat mess.... and as it stands will get worse and wrose... any alternative info now is great.... anything that makes people think out of the box is great.... I bleive its in our code to learn all this stuff now.... many wont handle it and many will... i think that even the powers that be know we will learn this stuff and they know they cant stop it, but they will try to control the masses as they have allways done.... how do you know there are not people within these secret societies that actually want to help the masses.... how do you know this is not so?

The point is that there are limitations. Can you make your physical spacesuit live forever, never age, never lose hair etc?

If not then you've just conceded that there are other forces at play than your simple attraction...its that simple.

you are saying what we dont see as possible is not possible, this is not true.

people are told they can never walk again... not because its not possible but because the nerve system is so complicated its to hard to fix it so they can walk again.... but its still possible for them to walk again, we just don't know how....have not got the knowledge.

and no i do not except there are other forces that play a part.... I will except there there is about 90-80 % of our selfs that we are not connected to that play a big part in our lives... and can be manipulated by others..


Why are you sorry?

well im not, just a form of politeness :p


I think that is a superficial comparison. First off, you have restraints in attracting matter, as we just established, so most of you said is just plain rhetoric.

To you LOA, the principle, is the saviour that has the ability to trump all situations and circumstances to 'save the day'. To Christians the fairytale saviour is Jesus. They are both lies that placate the masses, a way to keep them feeding into the culture around them, the culture that is designed to disconnect you from 'source', IMO. The culture of today, the ethic of consumerism creates the kind of codes and behaviour regulation that you would find in the bible, they are all tied together by the 'do what you feel' oversensitivity, emotionally based decision making that advertisers love... The Secret is not new, its been around in various incarnations forever. You create your own reality dogma has been increasingly produced since 'the aquarian age began right after WW2.

And what do you think karma and dharma are? 'As you reap so you shall so'. "What you focus on expands". See the pattern.

And what are all the gods of wealth and happiness were for in Hinduism. They were models to guide your meditation, the communion or prayer to god; the creative visualization of the LOA.

you totaly miss understand me... i dont see the LOA as my saviour... as its not a substance ...its not even a belife as such..its an understanding.... there are no guidlines unless you want them .... there are no rules and you do not have to worship anyone....

it actually EXPOSES religion, and could not be more further away than a religion.... although it does not mean that religious people dont use it....

infact religion was manipulated and is used today to keep people more distant to the understanding of the LOA, to great effect .....

the world has not understood the LOA for years and look at it... I think its the LOA's turn and lets see how that pans out.

[teslafire]

Thirdwave-
Well we can certainly agree to disagree then.

And I sure as hell don't trust Buddha, I like my ego, my music..I like to dance.

I also believe in manifestation...:D...to a degree.
I can't explain certain synchronicities in my life and I read Tarot Cards, so I do understand your view.
The distinction between my thinking and yours is that I think its subject to be overriden by "divine intervention" and commonly is, in the form of death of the physical body.

That's a built in matrix code that can't be overriden.

There are competing forces to attraction/repulsion/thought.

Do what thou wilt IS NOT the whole of the law

[limelady]

Wow! Just trying to read through this thread has given my poor brain a thrashing! But oh what fun it is to see such powerful egos attempting to intellectualise each other under the table! :p

Last man standing is the winner! :D LoL

I'm going to make my post as simple as I can for all those like myself who are quite dizzied (yet somewhat amused) by all the interllectual muscle flexing going on in this thread.....and and my response is specifically for thirdwave

Best to give up mate....you are being trampled on by the left-brain stampede! LoL

Those of us who know 'the secret' (call it quantum mechanics or whatever else floats ya boat) know its real. Simple! On the other hand, those who have not experienced its 'realness' in the fullness of their being may feel inclined to want to put forth concepts and arguments to support their various opposing views....and often times getting more and more pedantic as they go for the sake of getting their argument heard.

Meanwhile you and I (and others who 'know') have managed to by-pass the interllectual judder-bars the left-brainers seem to be stuck on, and I dunno about you thirdwave, but past experience has shown me that attempting to engage such people at the level of 'knowing' I come from seems to just force them even deeper into their 'argumentative ruts' .....the need to over-analysis and/or be perceived as being 'right' is such a powerul addiction to some. As the saying goes 'it will be a cold day in hell' before most of them will give it up.

It can be fun watching them butt heads though! ;)

Love you all!!!! :D XXXX

[tru3]

It can be fun watching them butt heads though! ;)

Love you all!!!! :D XXXX

well, most of us are the males of the specie:

http://www.kayaklakemead.com/sitebuilder/images/bighorn_sheep_ramming-420x315.jpg


:D love ya right back!

[eternal_spirit]

The higher levels of the Nazis belived in the power of the will, ritual magick good or bad.....uses will power to atain results. Mind over matter! or matter over mind! maybe it's both.

I do believe likes attract..it's evident in some of the laws of physics and science....magnets etc. I want to be a powerfull magnet of love and positivity so I can attract like minded people.

Icke touches on these subjects, people who believe the same thoughts and live similair lives will be subject to LOA. I have seen this manifest in my own life and the people i have attracted at times.

[teslafire]

In terms of literal magnets, opposites attract.

Magnets of the same polarity (positive and a positive) repel.

[eternal_spirit]

In terms of literal magnets, opposites attract.

Magnets of the same polarity (positive and a positive) repel.

Lol Oh dear think i'll leave this thread alone..... good read all the same people!
Birds of a feather flock together:confused: :D

[teslafire]

quantum mechanics is just a theory. it's built on describing a range of values of a function, not an exact value of that function.

That's all I was trying to say, perhaps clumsily.:p

[john white]

In terms of literal magnets, opposites attract.

Magnets of the same polarity (positive and a positive) repel.

Yes, and any thought is a seperation from balance being transmitted into the universe...which is why it is drawn back to the thinker: by the opposite energy within themselves (perhaps?)

(BTW anyone thinking Im "wrong" is just as correct as anyone thinking I am "right", freedom is just being ourselves anyway: one has to laugh!)

[Anders Lindman]

One efficient practice for the law of attraction is this:

Do your duties (boring stuff) first and the fun stuff later, but, do your duties as late as possible and the fun things as soon as possible! :)

[tru3]

That's all I was trying to say, perhaps clumsily.:p

not at all! not at all! i mean, we're struggling with major existential issues here! i think lots of "wiggle room" can help hash out the subtleties of it all. a free exchange of ideas is a good thing. :)

[eternal_spirit]

not at all! not at all! i mean, we're struggling with major existential issues here! i think lots of "wiggle room" can help hash out the subtleties of it all. a free exchange of ideas is a good thing. :)

Can't resist this one lol. Like the Frank zappa avatar:D this thread in places reminds me of a song by Zappa.....Cosmic Debri!

[tru3]

Can't resist this one lol. Like the Frank zappa avatar:D this thread in places reminds me of a song by Zappa.....Cosmic Debri!

zappa was a remarkable guy. in his autobiography, he writes that a doctor shoved radium pellets up his nose when he as a kid as a radioactive antibiotic. everything kind of evolved out of that for him. that man understood his times as well as any contemporary songwriter. i miss him a lot. :o

[Anders Lindman]

One efficient practice for the law of attraction is this:

Do your duties (boring stuff) first and the fun stuff later, but, do your duties as late as possible and the fun things as soon as possible! :)

Maybe a bit more explanation of this is in order. What has this to do with the law of attraction? The answer is that this practice draws more of the fun things to your life. And how can I do the boring stuff first and at the same time as late as possible? At each moment I can ask myself: is there any duty I have to do right at that moment? If there is, I perform the duty, but if the duty can be postponed without neglecting it, I postpone it. And there is a very good reason for this. The world and the circumstances in life are in constant flux. What was true at one moment may not be true or valid at all the next moment, so if I do a duty too soon, then I perform a duty that may not be valid in the next moment since the world changes all the time, and then I have done the duty when in fact it wasn't needed and thus I have wasted my energy.

[shenoma]

Lets say if you put your thoughts to work manifesting a new house, all of a sudden you come across an oppurtunity for a second job hence more income, you start noticing great mortgage deals everywhere and now you have a second job they're looking more affordable. You find the perfect house in a great neighbourhood at a good price so you dive in.
Congratulations you manifested a house. Is this the LOA or cause and effect?
Whats the difference?

Who says it has to be either or, it could be both working. Why do humans try to narrow everything down to one simple thing? When it never really is.

[shenoma]

Beware! Bannana skins ahead! (meant with great kindness). The ego needs a whipping to know who's boss or it'll pull on its leash: if not run away entirely

And nothing lasts "for ever", including brick walls. Only a bare handful make it past a couple of hundred cycles: and "time" gets 'em all: guarenteed!

It seems to me you assume I haven't already slipped on a few skins (which I have). I refuse to disown, what is one of the most precious things we are. If you believe owning an ego is bad, then what about the good it serves? I have been humble in more ways then I can say, and I refuse to simply lay down what is rightly mine to claim. I will kneel to some one that is greater then me in some part, but few I have meant (really none so far that can last, they don't have much they can teach me).

Who needs forever, if you are only continued a measly 120 years that any human can ever hope to live to?

[shenoma]

Meanwhile you and I (and others who 'know') have managed to by-pass the interllectual judder-bars the left-brainers seem to be stuck on, and I dunno about you thirdwave, but past experience has shown me that attempting to engage such people at the level of 'knowing' I come from seems to just force them even deeper into their 'argumentative ruts' .....the need to over-analysis and/or be perceived as being 'right' is such a powerul addiction to some. As the saying goes 'it will be a cold day in hell' before most of them will give it up.

If you did by-pass it, I bet you miss something that you could learn from and made better because of it. It's a lot more then just knowing, I think people like taking things apart so they can learn and feel about it to get the most value from it. It's not always about being right, either or defending some minor point, going over and over about something could lead to jem of truth in the end.

[shenoma]

Maybe a bit more explanation of this is in order. What has this to do with the law of attraction? The answer is that this practice draws more of the fun things to your life. And how can I do the boring stuff first and at the same time as late as possible? At each moment I can ask myself: is there any duty I have to do right at that moment? If there is, I perform the duty, but if the duty can be postponed without neglecting it, I postpone it. And there is a very good reason for this. The world and the circumstances in life are in constant flux. What was true at one moment may not be true or valid at all the next moment, so if I do a duty too soon, then I perform a duty that may not be valid in the next moment since the world changes all the time, and then I have done the duty when in fact it wasn't needed and thus I have wasted my energy.

Why can't duties be fun? That way there ain't much boring stuff in one's life.;)

[Anders Lindman]

Why can't duties be fun? That way there ain't much boring stuff in one's life.;)

Yes, 'duties' is perhaps not the right word. Some duties can be fun or interesting to do, and what is considered boring stuff often differ from one person to the next.

A better description would be "things that one really don't want to do, but feel that one has to do"

[john white]

It seems to me you assume I haven't already slipped on a few skins (which I have). I refuse to disown, what is one of the most precious things we are. If you believe owning an ego is bad, then what about the good it serves? I have been humble in more ways then I can say, and I refuse to simply lay down what is rightly mine to claim. I will kneel to some one that is greater then me in some part, but few I have meant (really none so far that can last, they don't have much they can teach me).

Who needs forever, if you are only continued a measly 120 years that any human can ever hope to live to?

'Course there's nothing bad about an ego, its simply the magnetic barrier between "self" and "non self" after all, just saying it needs a whipping so it doesnt run away with itself, it is, after all, slave and not master. Equally, no knowledge belongs to us: it's just stuff we have out on loan: same as our bodies. Try holding on to either when the lease is up. And I agree that we are here to stand, not kneel. TBH, my knees are a bit of a wonky design so I tend to go for the mild inclination of the head and a wink anyways

[eternal_spirit]

In terms of literal magnets, opposites attract.

Magnets of the same polarity (positive and a positive) repel.

what I was saying is that a magnet sicks to a magnet right? like water sticks to water..... love attracts love. Love and hate are two extreme opposites, one can cancel out the other. If there is a balance of the two a third force is created. sex between man and woman creates life the third force.

[thirdwave]

Wow! Just trying to read through this thread has given my poor brain a thrashing! But oh what fun it is to see such powerful egos attempting to intellectualise each other under the table! :p

Last man standing is the winner! :D LoL

I'm going to make my post as simple as I can for all those like myself who are quite dizzied (yet somewhat amused) by all the interllectual muscle flexing going on in this thread.....and and my response is specifically for thirdwave

Best to give up mate....you are being trampled on by the left-brain stampede! LoL

Those of us who know 'the secret' (call it quantum mechanics or whatever else floats ya boat) know its real. Simple! On the other hand, those who have not experienced its 'realness' in the fullness of their being may feel inclined to want to put forth concepts and arguments to support their various opposing views....and often times getting more and more pedantic as they go for the sake of getting their argument heard.

Meanwhile you and I (and others who 'know') have managed to by-pass the interllectual judder-bars the left-brainers seem to be stuck on, and I dunno about you thirdwave, but past experience has shown me that attempting to engage such people at the level of 'knowing' I come from seems to just force them even deeper into their 'argumentative ruts' .....the need to over-analysis and/or be perceived as being 'right' is such a powerul addiction to some. As the saying goes 'it will be a cold day in hell' before most of them will give it up.

It can be fun watching them butt heads though! ;)

Love you all!!!! :D XXXX

Well put :)

I actually think that the left brainers are having to dig their heels in more than ever because the way that this whole world is changing at such a vast rate the left brain thing is finding it harder and harder to to get to grips with stuff.... and the right brainers are starting to make more sence :)

as for the ego thing, you right I love a good argument :p

[thirdwave]

Thirdwave-
Well we can certainly agree to disagree then.

And I sure as hell don't trust Buddha, I like my ego, my music..I like to dance.

I also believe in manifestation...:D...to a degree.
I can't explain certain synchronicities in my life and I read Tarot Cards, so I do understand your view.
The distinction between my thinking and yours is that I think its subject to be overriden by "divine intervention" and commonly is, in the form of death of the physical body.

That's a built in matrix code that can't be overriden.

There are competing forces to attraction/repulsion/thought.

Do what thou wilt IS NOT the whole of the law

Agree to disagree it will be I think ....

I think the main thing that us humans have a problem with is the perception of time..... we think that the present always effects the future when I think in reality the present and the future are exactly the same... the only thing that changes is our consciousness...

I do not worship Buddha or anything... the chances are the religion worshiped today is twisted out of its true meaning like all of them.... but although I do not believe in religion, I still think has all come from a very real and strong base...its just over time it has been watered down to suet another message...

[thirdwave]

The matrix with code was a movie.

I think the matrix the movie was more on the mark than people think.... the way we can monitor DNA is by numbers so on... in a way the universe is just one AMAZING computer..

[teslafire]

Well, this is why LOA is widely criticised as being insular and cultlike.

Admission of the most basic fact that the physical body's will to die outwills the mind's will to not let go of the body, much less go bald is simply ignored or cast as crude. But I suspect a believer can't allow this because the freedom they were sold - that they create their own reality and there is nothing but thought attraction - is undermined.

The suspension of disbelief irritated, the balloon popped, the reality scrambled...manifestation is the grand unifying metaphysical meta-consciousness princple of creation and that mastering this principle is infact mastering self...its a nice story that is misleading (intentionally) and most everyone already knows this (including supposed adherents).

If they didn't then there would be no hesitation in telling cancer patients to focus on a non-cancer free life or how about telling women instead of taking birth control just send the universe the message that you don't want to get pregnant?

Would you give this advice to your significant other if he/she believes in LOA?

Its a law like gravity, right?

The left brain needs to know.:)
(addressed to anyone)

[tru3]

Well, this is why LOA is widely criticised as being insular and cultlike.

Admission of the most basic fact that the physical body's will to die outwills the mind's will to not let go of the body, much less go bald is simply ignored or cast as crude. But I suspect a believer can't allow this because the freedom they were sold - that they create their own reality and there is nothing but thought attraction - is undermined.

The suspension of disbelief irritated, the balloon popped, the reality scrambled...manifestation is the grand unifying metaphysical meta-consciousness princple of creation and that mastering this principle is infact mastering self...its a nice story that is misleading (intentionally) and most everyone already knows this (including supposed adherents).

If they didn't then there would be no hesitation in telling cancer patients to focus on a non-cancer free life or how about telling women instead of taking birth control just send the universe the message that you don't want to get pregnant?

Would you give this advice to your significant other if he/she believes in LOA?

Its a law like gravity, right?

The left brain needs to know.:)
(addressed to anyone)

thanks, teslafire. these are all very salient observations. i'm going to share an example by way of personal experience, if i may be so indulgent. :)

i have money issues. as a young child, i saw my parents arguing about money all the time. so, i formed a belief at an early age that money was trouble.

as a toddler, my dad used to take me to college classes with him. he'd throw me in the car on a cold winter morning and say, "you can't get sick; we don't have insurance". well, guess what: i rarely get sick, and i HATE insurance companies! :D more than coincidence? you decide!

regardless of what we believe, people are going to continue to purchase and experiment with the secret. imo, without examining these types of deep-rooted illusions like the nature of body consciousness and race consciousness, they set themselves up to fail. that's what's being counted on, again, imo.

[Anders Lindman]

The left brain needs to know.


I agree that for full knowing the rational mind must also be involved. And probably also a holistic sensing is needed in order to be in sync with how the universe operates. The brain deals with separate things. Even when we think about wholeness, that thought is still only a fragment and not actual wholeness. Probably the heart is the center that can sense wholeness. The law of attraction would then also need the heart as a magnet. That's probably why they in The Secret talk about feeling and not only about thinking.

[thirdwave]

for me "logical thinking" and left brain stuff is just a another way of saying anything that can be proven 3 dimensionally.....

if its does not have a distance.. a wight.... and a color then its not real.... but if we know that we only perceive %10 of matter anyway... how can we assume our logic is logical at all when we can see so little ??

[teslafire]

Well that's the beauty of the LOA, you really can define your own terms or give your own definitions to words because everything is only as real as it relates to you...'you create your reality'.

Gravity is not something you can taste, smell, touch, see; its an invisible force, an invisible immutable law on this earth that can only be determined because of its effects. 'Everything that goes up must come down'.

Whether you like it or not, that's scientific law while you're on earth, regardless of the fact that everything is a vibration of differing frequency.

In the same way, LOA claims to be immutable, but until someone really takes it to heart, like 'imagining birth control' rather than taking pills or a patch or wearing a condom, it will remain a highly flawed illogical scam of a belief system.

[jimijams]

In the same way, LOA claims to be immutable, but until someone really takes it to heart, like 'imagining birth control' rather than taking pills or a patch or wearing a condom, it will remain a highly flawed illogical scam of a belief system.
The LOA is a belief system and like all belief systems you will find evidence everywhere to proove it. I think though the law of perception is closer to the truth.

The world we see around us closley resembles what we believe, this is because of the way our brain filters information confirming as close as possible to our belief system. This is pretty standard stuff and I'm sure most of us realise how the brain works. Now if you begin focusing your thoughts and energies on what you want according to the LOA this will change the filter on your brain, you will begin to notice oppurtunities that you believed were not there previously, this doesn't mean they wern't there before, it's just now you notice them because of the different filter. So changing your thoughts will help you to create your reality and open oppurtunity to you but I see this more as perception rather than attraction.

Having said that I also believe we have the power to manifest, but to do this requires the discipline of spiritual practice, raising your energy to a high level, this is key. This is what makes me suspect about the 'the secret' and Abraham/Hicks, it is all about you and what your wants are, instead of what it is you can do to serve others.

[limelady]

Jimijams.....

Having said that I also believe we have the power to manifest, but to do this requires the discipline of spiritual practice, raising your energy to a high level, this is key.

We may need to agree to disagree on this jimi. The concept that becoming 'spiritual' takes YEARS of dedicated spiritual practice is imo one of the BIGGEST deceptions of all time. Its what we were MEANT to believe. I believe the opposite is in fact true as this has been my own experience. As David has told us over and over, we are already born 'enlightened', we just need to remove the scales.

Its all about removing the 'generational scales' (systematic religious brain-washing and fear programming acquired over the milleniums) now thoroughly programmed into our DNA because this is what blinds us from our true potenial as spiritual beings.

I don't believe it takes years of dedicated meditation or other spiritual practices to remember how to be enlightened enough to manifest. You just have to change your program, and how one does this is different for everybody.....for some people the program seems to re-set itself in a 'flash'....others may never achieve enlightenment at all.....it all depends on ones own personal level of 'fear' of letting it go of the old program held tightly in their genes and fed by the brain computer. As soon as one is able to start suspending previous programming enlightenment will naturally start returning at the same rate.

But this is just my opinion based on personal experience and what I have witnessed in others. :)

[jimijams]

Jimijams.....



We may need to agree to disagree on this jimi. The concept that becoming 'spiritual' takes YEARS of dedicated spiritual practice is imo one of the BIGGEST deceptions of all time.
I didn't say it takes years but it does take discipline to strengthen the will over the ego. Most people are driven by their personality(ego), to break free of the ego requires discipline.

Think of your ego as a unbroken horse with your infinite self as the rider, without discipline of the horse you will only ever be a passenger constantly pulling on the reins and out of control. With the correct schooling of the horse you can turn a buck jumper in to a potential medal winner at the olympics. This can take only days or weeks to do with the correct knowledge and discipline, it's the same with spiritual practice.

It need not take years and yes it can happen almost instantly, but it still requires the constant discipline of a spiritual practice to maintain otherwise the personality(horse) will eventually wrest back control and your back to where you started from.

By spiritual practice I don't mean traveling to Tibet spending ten years in a monestry chanting, but simple things like meditation to quiet the mind, working on your self physically and stengthening your will. All these things add to raise your energy and help in manifesting a more positive outlook.


http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5931/spanhofreitschulexk2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[tru3]

thanks, jimijam. actually, that's a very apt analogy.

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8973/ox1ap4.png (http://imageshack.us)

the ox herder parable. we don't have to numb, kill, subjugate or paralyse the conscious mind. we just have to bore it to tears! :D

"Most people suffer not from physical illness but from spiritual aimlessness.
They have lost sight of who they really are and what is really valuable."
- Carl Jung

[limelady]

jimijams...
By spiritual practice I don't mean traveling to Tibet spending ten years in a monestry chanting, but simple things like meditation to quiet the mind, working on your self physically and stengthening your will. All these things add to raise your energy and help in manifesting a more positive outlook.

Does saying "bollocks" a lot constitute a disciplined spiritual practice? In addition to that, at least once a month I put myself through an intensive session of self-flagellation by forcing myself to watch an evening of commercial television in order to keep myself abreast of what the 'programmers' are up to. On these designated nights my continuous chanting of the words "crap" " bollocks" "yeah right" (and a lot worse!) can become overwhelmingly tedious to others, so I'm frequently abandoned and left to suffer alone on such occasions!

;)

[jimijams]

I don't believe it takes years of dedicated meditation or other spiritual practices to remember how to be enlightened enough to manifest. You just have to change your program, and how one does this is different for everybody.....for some people the program seems to re-set itself in a 'flash'....others may never achieve enlightenment at all.....i
An abrupt awakening for some can also be dangerous, mental wards all over the world are full of 'enlightened' people. It is best if it is a gradual process coupled with spiritual practice to ease the awakening.

I had a kundulini type awakening a couple of years back which is what you were refering to when the program re-sets itself in a flash. The problem with this and I'm sure David Icke would attest, is that your world is then turned upside down over night, without the correct spiritual grounding you may become like a ship lost at sea without a rudder. Some find there way back, many don't.

Luckily for me I have very understanding friends and family.:)

[tru3]

jimijams...


Does saying "bollocks" a lot constitute a disciplined spiritual practice? In addition to that, at least once a month I put myself through an intensive session of self-flagellation by forcing myself to watch an evening of commercial television in order to keep myself abreast of what the 'programmers' are up to. On these designated nights my continuous chanting of the words "crap" " bollocks" "yeah right" (and a lot worse!) can become overwhelmingly tedious to others, so I'm frequently abandoned and left to suffer alone on such occasions!

;)

this looks much more pleasant, actually

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3806/holygrail024cz7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

doominuuuus aaa requieeeeem.....THWACK!

[oneofmany]

An abrupt awakening for some can also be dangerous, mental wards all over the world are full of 'enlightened' people. It is best if it is a gradual process coupled with spiritual practice to ease the awakening.

I had a kundulini type awakening a couple of years back which is what you were refering to when the program re-sets itself in a flash. The problem with this and I'm sure David Icke would attest, is that your world is then turned upside down over night, without the correct spiritual grounding you may become like a ship lost at sea without a rudder. Some find there way back, many don't.

Luckily for me I have very understanding friends and family.:)

Did you have any preparaton for the awakenig experience? If so what did you do to achive this? eg what type of meditation?, how long a day? etc

how is best to prepare for such an awakening?

Did you have a spiritual guide or mentor?

thanks jimi

[tru3]

An abrupt awakening for some can also be dangerous, mental wards all over the world are full of 'enlightened' people. It is best if it is a gradual process coupled with spiritual practice to ease the awakening.

I had a kundulini type awakening a couple of years back which is what you were refering to when the program re-sets itself in a flash. The problem with this and I'm sure David Icke would attest, is that your world is then turned upside down over night, without the correct spiritual grounding you may become like a ship lost at sea without a rudder. Some find there way back, many don't.

Luckily for me I have very understanding friends and family.:)

support: that does make all the difference. i will say this though: real spiritual insight can change one's world. i think that's its purpose. i waited 12 years to take my third reiki attunement, because i was warned that it could rock my world. well guess what? even after all that time and lots and lots of preparation, it still rocked my world! stuff came up i thought i had addressed, but more intensely and directly. i don't know how to describe it; the "stakes" seemed higher this time. so, i'm not sure anything prepares one for that kind of experience.

but you know what? i wouldn't take any of it back! i can't imagine still living in the coffin-shaped box called "true's world".

[jimijams]

Did you have any preparaton for the awakenig experience? If so what did you do to achive this? eg what type of meditation?, how long a day? etc

how is best to prepare for such an awakening?

Did you have a spiritual guide or mentor?

thanks jimi
My true awakening was to my own destructive behaviour towards myself and the effect it was having on my life and those around me. Once I decided I know longer wanted to continue on this path and made the conscious decision to evolve, my true self awoke. Everything else followed as a matter of course.:)

Jimi

EDIT:In answer to your question oneofmany I had no preperation or grounding thats why I'd recommend the steady as she goes approach, work on building your energy steadily and you will still acheive the same result eventually without the fuss and drama that a kundalini awakening entails.

[limelady]

doominuuuus aaa requieeeeem.....THWACK!

LOL l!!!! ..thanks for that tru.......still wiping the tears!! :D :D :D

[limelady]

An abrupt awakening for some can also be dangerous, mental wards all over the world are full of 'enlightened' people. It is best if it is a gradual process coupled with spiritual practice to ease the awakening.

I had a kundulini type awakening a couple of years back which is what you were refering to when the program re-sets itself in a flash. The problem with this and I'm sure David Icke would attest, is that your world is then turned upside down over night, without the correct spiritual grounding you may become like a ship lost at sea without a rudder. Some find there way back, many don't.

Luckily for me I have very understanding friends and family.:)

Yes, I've heard it can be rough! :mad: ouch! Its like going from black to white too quickly.

I've always considered myself fortunate that my kundulini had one-eye-open when I was born (not black or white - but mid grey), and the journey towards the white (light) has been rather like a series of mini jumps. Still a few to go yet too!

[neondestiny]

Well I haven't watched the secret, but from most of what I have read here I am thinking to myself well fuck me, I wrote this fucken secret 10yrs ago when I placed a $100 bill in my purse and told it to bring me money lol (like attracts like). I also changed my core belief before that or it probably would have never worked.
My core belief used to be if I had money then I must be taking it away from someone else for me to have it, I changed this to.
"The universe will always provide for me all I will ever need!" I am sure I have told you before about this Tru3 somewhere on the forum about manifesting money.
It really does work.
Maybe I should have changed my core belief to "I will write a book and DVD and rake in heaps of cash from heaps of people to learn how to do something that they already know how to do" pmsl
P.S. I still have my majik $100 bill, coincidently I have never had to spend it and it still works to this day ;)
Bright Blessings
Neon xxx