vegetarian

[paganus]

unless everyone on this forum is a vegetarian/vegan,and lives without exploiting animals,i think it is the height of hypocracy to complain about reptillians!

[soglad]

unless everyone on this forum is a vegetarian/vegan,and lives without exploiting animals,i think it is the height of hypocracy to complain about reptillians!

It's also the hight of hypocrisy to preach about not killing animals but happily butchering plants.

SADISTS!

[paganus]

plants are not self-aware..

[soglad]

plants are not self-aware..

Yes they are! They know to bend toward the Sun if the need more light, they can make lower stems or branches fall off if they take too much light or it needs to be directed elsewhere. Venus fly traps.....catches flies, it is conscious of doing so!

Just because it doesn't say meow and crawls on your lap doesn't mean it's not self aware. Everything is consciousness remember.

[paganus]

Yes they are! They know to bend toward the Sun if the need more light, they can make lower stems or branches fall off if they take too much light or it needs to be directed elsewhere. Venus fly traps.....catches flies, it is conscious of doing so!

Just because it doesn't say meow and crawls on your lap doesn't mean it's not self aware. Everything is consciousness remember.
they bend to the sun for the same reason metal expands in it.chemical reaction at a molecular level.in a plant,dehydration of cells nearest sunlight causes bending.

[octopusrex]

Yesssssssssssssssssssssss!

YOU SAID IT BROTHER!

[paganus]

thank you!:)

[woghd]

There's glowing mice that have DNA spliced in from glowing algea, and they produce photosynthesis. I think they qualify as self aware plants.

Archangel

[paganus]

There's glowing mice that have DNA spliced in from glowing algea, and they produce photosynthesis. I think they qualify as self aware plants.

Archangeli dont think they'd qualify as plants.just more victims of sick experiments!:mad:

[paganus]

im begining to belive the 'reptilians' are the shadow of ourselves.thought-forms.

[drael]

plants are not self-aware..

There are experiements showing plants have emotions, experience pain, communicate and have awarenes. Contraversial yes, but the theory is there that plants may be aware. The ancient druids used to regard trees, as the wisest and most evolved form of life.

There is certainly no proof they dont have awareness. There is some that they do. Its conceivable that cells could have an electromagnetic "brain", or network, although it would function differently from brain cells.

We have no idea what conciousness is, scientifically, or from where its derived, ultimatley (there are theories, but no more). Whether it it exists in animals, and what exactly they feel is still being debated. So arguably eating animals is not the same as eating humans. In fact it looks, in terms of the brain, like pain and fear perception is quite relative to somethings point on the evolutionary scale, so killing/eating a fish is quite different from eating a monkey. Lower mammals like cows for example, dont seem to have real anticipation of pain/death. Not that i personally beleive that cows dont feel pain per say, but eating animals may be quite relative to their CNS ability to perceive fear/pain etc. Or at least, the jury is still out as to whether animals feel as much as we might...

[cloudgazer]

You know, I have thought before and I still think this (though for the past 6 months I haven't been vegan) that eating anything from an enslaved animal enslaves people's minds from the negative energy.

In america so many animals literally live in cages on factory farms. It's really disturbing, sad, and cruel. I came across the idea that when people eat the meat of an animal who lived in a cage all of its life, were enslaving their minds. This is before I ever read any of David Icke's books. And before I read any of his books I thought people were enslaved by civilization when I read the definition (in an encyclopedia) of the slaves in Egypt.

So perhaps the reptillians want people to eat the meat of enslaved animals who live in factory farms, or even a regular farm where the animals are not free, so that people will act as slaves as well...... getting their energy from these captured animals.

ETA: and perhaps people want to enslave animals on farms and factory farms because they are enslaved too, on a sort of farm, knowing this unconsciously.

[cloudgazer]

There are experiements showing plants have emotions, experience pain, communicate and have awarenes. Contraversial yes, but the theory is there that plants may be aware. The ancient druids used to regard trees, as the wisest and most evolved form of life.

There is certainly no proof they dont have awareness. There is some that they do. Its conceivable that cells could have an electromagnetic "brain", or network, although it would function differently from brain cells.

We have no idea what conciousness is, scientifically, or from where its derived, ultimatley (there are theories, but no more). Whether it it exists in animals, and what exactly they feel is still being debated. So arguably eating animals is not the same as eating humans. In fact it looks, in terms of the brain, like pain and fear perception is quite relative to somethings point on the evolutionary scale, so killing/eating a fish is quite different from eating a monkey. Lower mammals like cows for example, dont seem to have real anticipation of pain/death. Not that i personally beleive that cows dont feel pain per say, but eating animals may be quite relative to their CNS ability to perceive fear/pain etc. Or at least, the jury is still out as to whether animals feel as much as we might...

I agree with you that trees are conscious and wise. I feel that they are our protectors. I learned this from my life experience and intuition.

[paganus]

You know, I have thought before and I still think this (though for the past 6 months I haven't been vegan) that eating anything from an enslaved animal enslaves people's minds from the negative energy.

In america so many animals literally live in cages on factory farms. It's really disturbing, sad, and cruel. I came across the idea that when people eat the meat of an animal who lived in a cage all of its life, were enslaving their minds. This is before I ever read any of David Icke's books. And before I read any of his books I thought people were enslaved by civilization when I read the definition (in an encyclopedia) of the slaves in Egypt.

So perhaps the reptillians want people to eat the meat of enslaved animals who live in factory farms, or even a regular farm where the animals are not free, so that people will act as slaves as well...... getting their energy from these captured animals.

ETA: and perhaps people want to enslave animals on farms and factory farms because they are enslaved too, on a sort of farm, knowing this unconsciously.at the very,very least,a plant cannot be factory farmed and kept in cruel conditions in the way animals are.also,they would feed more than animals for the same land.

[mystiq_99]

Are you saying that unless we're vegan we have no right to be concerned about the dangers of reptilians? Arizona Wilder's account of the human sacrifices, and the beastial natures of the reptilians ruling us, certainly made me aware that I should be concerned. Although eskimo's eat whales, most of us do not eat whales, dolphins, elephants or great apes. Many ufo contactee accounts insist that so called superior beings see us as animals, and thus experiment on us without qualms of conscience. They certainly seem to be missing sociologists, and anthropoligists, and they exhibit how technology, even IQ, is not a superior state of being. Even if a society is primitive, their intelligence is seen in use of natural materials to build, and technology. This would be evolving intelligent life. There are life forms that are intelligent, such as whales, that can not exhibit technology or build tools, yet they are also extremely intelligent. Intelligent advanced beings do not eat other intelligent beings.

[pilgrim]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24342

[empyblessing]

Right on, plants are life too with a consciousness in which we cannot yet understand.

If you're going to eat meat, be thankful. Do as the american indians did, thank the animal for it's sacrifice with the promise that one day your body will be used to feed the mother earth. Circle of life. :)

And much of the push for vegetarianism becomes nothing more than gatekeeping, trying to enforce others to your beliefs and assuming they're wrong if they don't think just like you do.

[element]

Right on, plants are life too with a consciousness in which we cannot yet understand.

If you're going to eat meat, be thankful. Do as the american indians did, thank the animal for it's sacrifice with the promise that one day your body will be used to feed the mother earth. Circle of life. :)

And much of the push for vegetarianism becomes nothing more than gatekeeping, trying to enforce others to your beliefs and assuming they're wrong if they don't think just like you do.

All we ask for is to give one(!) solid reason why you should eat meat..
Fruits don't kill the tree, and vegetables are taken later in their lifecycle, otherwise they will rot away and be useless. Animals do not have to go through that cycle, they live much longer. They give you milk, wool, friendship, compassion. They are closely related to us, the only difference is we have a higher intellect and consciousness.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26491

[izzy]

And much of the push for vegetarianism becomes nothing more than gatekeeping, trying to enforce others to your beliefs and assuming they're wrong if they don't think just like you do.
__________________Empty Blessing


why would you say this - this is just propoganda and spin to detract from the key issue which is all life is sacred.

You eat an animal that is sliced and chopped up whilst semi conscious and YES ANIMALS FEEL PAIN LIKE WE DO AND FEAR ... ugh we are animals .. we are biological beings just like cows

You do this ie eat them - you are complicit - if you are complicit - you killed this animal in this horrific way as surely as if you were chopping him / her up your self ... THAT is why people like you use spin to detract from this very basic reality.

iF YOU choose to eat meat - do you check sources ensure your animals have at the very least had a good life and been killed humanely - or do you go down to tescos and buy the cheapest lump of murdered animal you can ?

Yes I believe plants have consciousness too - but whoever was spinning the ' oh i see you are happy to eat a plant but not an animals ' again was just using the method the elites use , use a truth , twist it , then when attention is taken away from the horrific issue at hand in this case animal slaughter - enmasse sanctioned by the govt and most people..

and EB most vegans and vegetarians and even those who are neither but have compassion are not trying to ENFORCE their beliefs on you - they are trying to SPEAK FOR THOSE WHO CANT SPEAK and make people like you aware of the slaughter house.

Do you eat veal - baby cows less then 24 hrs old shoved in crates - never seeing daylight until the day they are murdered - do you eat chickens - locked in cages where they cant moved and are debeaked - what about pigs who are thrown into vates of boiling water often alive .... WHO TALKS for these animals ... what about all the PET horses that are shipped off for 1000's of miles often with terrrible injuries to be slaughtered ... WHO TALKS for these creatures ...

WHY did you say such an ignorant thing ? are you supporting the elites who want to keep us insensitive, entrapped and enslaved ..brainwashed - SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE ... and eating violence and being complicit in this violence is one way fo doing this...

[empyblessing]

Were is the line from expressing yourself, to keeping everyone in a thought controlled bubble? I don't know that line. I don't know how to express myself without suppressing others. I want freedom for everyone. One way that doesn't lead to freedom is to condemn and ridicule others. This only stabilizes the matrix, keeps everyone in line. Freedom means others must be allowed to believe that life is not sacred.

I don't deal in absolutes. I live in a paradoxical universe where something can be yes or no, both at the same time, or neither.

Vegetarianism is a new dogma. It's another fixation on the matrix control system. It's true intent is to feed the ego. Someone can stop eating meat and then feel as if it elevates them above others and they must push their agenda off on someone else. They make others feel guilty about what they do. While raising their own self-stylized importance, they lower the value of others.

And here's the kicker. I haven't eaten meat in years.

I want out. I want free. And I know that in order to gain my own freedom I must be willing to grant freedom to others. In order for me to stop being a prisoner I must stop being a warden.

[izzy]

Were is the line from expressing yourself, to keeping everyone in a thought controlled bubble? I don't know that line. I don't know how to express myself without suppressing othersEB

Empty blessing I get what you are saying and to a certain extent I agree, but who speaks for animals who do not have a voice ? Why do people get attacked for speaking up for those who do not have a voice ? [ I am not referring to you btw ]

Vegetarianism is a new dogma. It's another fixation on the matrix control system. It's true intent is to feed the ego. Someone can stop eating meat and then feel as if it elevates them above others and they must push their agenda off on someone else.EB

This might be the case for some people, but all the people who have commented on this thread I do not believe are coming from that angle AT ALL and speaking for myself i could nt give a stuff about the PTB and their stupid matrix design, i try not to plug into the stupid thing.

I do know that animals being herded and killed in the way that our societies do this is a programme that is deeply embedded in the matrix - I am not talking about dogma but about sentient beings who are abused and murdered by humans ..

Even for those who choose to eat meat - how many source their meat to ensure the animals have had a good life and have been killed humanely [ although I am not sure how you can kill humanely ]

Many people are like clones with their choice of food - they do not check that the eggs they eat for example are from free range well cared for chickens - they turn the other way when they hear how chickens are treated. etc

I am not feeding my ego - i feel great pain and compassion towards the animals on this planet and great sadness that they are abused by us .. its not matrix programming - matrix programming does not involve love and compassion - it involves greed and power and a need to control.

[izzy]

And I know that in order to gain my own freedom I must be willing to grant freedom to others. In order for me to stop being a prisoner I must stop being a warden.
__________________
EB

This is an intersting quote - think about this ? What you have said is definitely the matrix programming talking ..

They [ PTB ] do not want is to be empowered, do not want us to question things to change things - THEY get rich and powerful on the back of our apathy

If actually we all took an active interest in the world, we did not allow atrocities, we did not allow children to starve, we did not allow our governments to take us to war, we did not allow dolphins to be murdered [25000 of them this year in Japan ... killed with fish hooks ]

So NO - it is time for US the people to wake up - reclaim our power and NOT ALLOW the PTB the freedoms to abuse and create fear and pain ..


WE must not grant freedoms to those in power to do as they want - if we do we will continue to sleepwalk into our own destruction ...

we are meant to be caretakers not puppets.

You want to grant freedom - well then we have to create together a fair and abundant world without suffering - turning away is exactly what THEY want us to do ...

We MUST WAKE UP all of us ..

[empyblessing]

You're right. You're wrong. You're both at the same time, and you're neither. :)

[izzy]

I know what you mean actually - but I feel that maybe now we are gonna have to make a choice :)

[empyblessing]

One can spread the word of the Illuminati without enforcing a belief on someone. David does this in all of his works, videos, and speeches. He is wise enough to realize that one can't be forced to freedom, they must come of their own volition or it isn't freedom. He often says to believe as you will, and that he isn't trying to change anyone's mind. This is what many fail to see. That force is not freedom and those not free are suffering. The end of suffering will not come about by spreading more suffering.

The same can be done with vegetarianism. One can supply all the relevant information to a person about it's benefits (and I can link to you many of them which I've done on this site several times before) without trying to hammer it into someone's head by making them feel guilty or shameful. Because no on can get sick enough to heal one person. No one can become poor enough to help the poor.

One can spread their love of vegetarianism and leave the guilt and fear to those of lesser minds and lower vibrations.

[izzy]

I do know what you mean empyblessing or I think I do.

I think what you are saying is that we have to allow people to wake up in their own time ?

But i think we have come to a critical stage in the worlds evolution now.

If we stood back and did nothing - there would be no rain forests, no wild animals, more children would be dead or starving, we would have lower pay worse conditions etc, a few brave pioneers have fought on behalf of many and affected change - the suffragettes are an example.

Actually I think we will have to agree to disagree

One can spread the word of the Illuminati without enforcing a belief on someone. David does this in all of his works, videos, and speeches. He is wise enough to realize that one can't be forced to freedom, they must come of their own volition or it isn't freedom. .

EB

To suggest I am spreading the word of the illuminati is laughable ! but if that is what you see in what I say then .. ummm you really need to re read my posts ...

Also the illuminati want to keep the status quo - this means, starvation, poverty and abuse for many - if not all of us who are enslaved in the deeply embedded illuminati matrix of this world .. by employers / banks etc etc

Those who are awake should help others to wake up - to claim their power ..freedom is about being able to make choices that self actualise your life ..

When we are constrained by banks, by employers . by convention, by taxes how are we free ... ??

When a child in Africa and many other places is born into terrible deprivation and poverty .. how is that child free ....?? Do you think we should collectively allow this ?

Actually the status quo is not OK and the staus quo is NOT about freedom ...

If someone supports the staus quo they are either asleep or they have not activated their personal power or they are enslaved willingly and rewarded well by the elite [ like many politicians ]

He often says to believe as you will, and that he isn't trying to change anyone's mind. This is what many fail to see. That force is not freedom and those not free are suffering. The end of suffering will not come about by spreading more suffering EP

I was not talking about FORCE but about FREEDOM through POWERFUL choices that can only be made when enough people AWAKE

Nothing in what I said indicated that I was supporting more suffering - you are either deliberately misinterpreting me - or you have misread and need to reread

[empyblessing]

I didn't say you're spreading the word of the Illuminati like spreading the fucking word of Jesus or something. Exposing it, revealing it, fighting it, educating people on the Illuminati, however you care to understand it.

[kriss_crow]

There are experiements showing plants have emotions, experience pain, communicate and have awarenes. Contraversial yes, but the theory is there that plants may be aware. The ancient druids used to regard trees, as the wisest and most evolved form of life.

There is certainly no proof they dont have awareness. There is some that they do. Its conceivable that cells could have an electromagnetic "brain", or network, although it would function differently from brain cells.

I would go even further. I belive that plants are not only self-aware.
Surely they have awareness of us,
our presence, emotions and intends towards them.
Read please, what David Wilcock said about it:

Now last year we actually went down to San Diego and filmed Dr. Backster. He's a scientist who started out as a CIA polygraph expert, and he decided one day, "what would happen if I took my polygraph and hooked it up to the leaf of this plant?". Well, he was very surprised, because, unlike smooth, unchanging wavelengths, which he thought he would see from the plant, instead he ended up with a shifting dynamic wave, which was more indicative of what you would expect a human being to be like, with the exception that skin, kind of acts as a dampening agent to the electrical current. But the plant has a very active dynamic electrical current.

Well, then he said, "This plant is acting so much like a human being, what if I ran the plant through stress, similar to how you do a human on the lie detector?" The whole purpose of the lie detection is, you want to get this person into the moment, when you say, "Did you fire the shot who killed so and so?" And the person has a shock, and they're not happy, they're not enthusiastic about your question. So, so they end up saying, "no of course I didn't kill him", and then the graph goes crazy!

So he says, "How do I shock a plant"? He tried dipping one of the leaves in his coffee. That didn't work. He tried a variety of little things like that, when he got the idea in his mind, without actually even doing it, but he just got the idea, of going and taking a match, lighting the match, striking it, then holding it to one of the leaves and burning the leaf.

The plant had an enormous reaction, and in fact did not stop until after he had actually gone and done it, burnt the leaf, and then taken the matches out of the room again. Only once the threat was gone, and he was out of the room, did the plant finally calm down.
I remember some Russian documentaries on plant's cognitions from 80's

[element]

I didn't say you're spreading the word of the Illuminati like spreading the fucking word of Jesus or something. Exposing it, revealing it, fighting it, educating people on the Illuminati, however you care to understand it.

Instead of focusing on negativity, as Illuminati, we should focus on, as Izzy said, to protect those who can't speak for their freedom. It's a logical thing. And no one forces you to stop eating meat, hence you can buy as much as you want. We tell the good things about it, and the bad things. It is up to everyone. You can expose all you want about Illuminati, but it's still a very vague thing, there is no real evidence for it. There is with animal suffering. And people who kill will suffer. I hate to say it, but that is reality.

We do not get away with the killing of the innocent. It's up to the individual. Saying it is a dogma is another way of stopping those who try to help the innocent. It's like saying ''don't tell me the truth about animal killing, you shout at me, you are evil, help help!!''

This shouldn't be in reptilian forum btw.

[element]

''Are we killing plants?

Often the objection is raised that we are killing plants to eat them. But this is not accurate, either. When we harvest vegetables, we do so at the end of their growth cycle; we don’t “cut them down in the prime of life.” Animals, however, are slaughtered long before their natural lifespan is finished. We must also distinguish between the fruit and the plant. When we pick, say a tomato, we do not kill the plant, but it continues to grow–no life is taken. As for root vegetables such as carrots or potatoes, the “root” that we harvest is the final stage in the plant’s growth; if it were not harvested, the plant would merely rot in the earth. Furthermore, in plants the sensory mind is only potential, it is “asleep.” They do not feel pain. Although they do have a rudimentary nervous system that responds to injury, the conscious mind that would receive the message of pain in animal organisms is not functional.''

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26491

[izzy]

Saying it is a dogma is another way of stopping those who try to help the innocent. It's like saying ''don't tell me the truth about animal killing, you shout at me, you are evil, help help!!''

element

Absolutely ! :)

[izzy]

One can spread their love of vegetarianism and leave the guilt and fear to those of lesser minds and lower vibrationsEP

Sorry what does this mean ?

[element]

EP

Sorry what does this mean ?

That we have to keep telling fairy tales with hero's and princesses, and forget about the actual dragons which are the threat.

[empyblessing]

EP

Sorry what does this mean ?

It's not important.

[supertzar]

Animals, with a few exceptions, do not seem to be self-aware. Dolphins and elephants come to mind as having self-awareness. Put a mirror in front of them and they will use it. Most animals will ignore it or react to the "other" animal in front of them.

[element]

Animals, with a few exceptions, do not seem to be self-aware. Dolphins and elephants come to mind as having self-awareness. Put a mirror in front of them and they will use it. Most animals will ignore it or react to the "other" animal in front of them.

If you have pets, do you eat them? Probably not, so why make an exeption to cattle? You say most other animals, where's your proof for this?

[mauviene]

they bend to the sun for the same reason metal expands in it.chemical reaction at a molecular level.

which is also why pain, fear, and all other emotions and sensations that any mammal can feel occurs. I can see how your against the corporate farms and slaughterhouses, but I can't really see why your against the consumption of meat in general. White meat is healthy for you, and contains many natural proteins and vitamins that benefit your health. I mean your standing up for animals like they actually could give a damn about your existence. You also have to take into consideration of what would happen if people didn't consume meat. For example, how many fish would be in the ocean if they weren't gathered by fishermen? What would we do with the millions of left over cows/chicken/pigs/ ect. What would we do with the overpopulation of deers, turkeys, and other hunted animals? I do admire the meatless diet, as for one I followed it for awhile but realized how much healthier I felt adding a bit of white meat into my eating habits, but I really don't admire the ranting animal maniac who seems to think that death isn't a part of existence.

[izzy]

I can see how your against the corporate farms and slaughterhouses, but I can't really see why your against the consumption of meat in general

because 99% of the meat westerners eat comes from these slaugher houses... you eat meat in the west ... you eat violence ..

but I really don't admire the ranting animal maniac who seems to think that death isn't a part of existence.

no one has been ranting here - just responding ... we all know death is part of existence ... is murder or sanctioned murder ... we are born and barring accidents or illness we will die naturally ... so death is a peaceful process SLAUGHTER is not ...

[mauviene]

because 99% of the meat westerners eat comes from these slaugher houses... you eat meat in the west ... you eat violence ..

Actually if you were really serious about it you could easily buy organic meat produced at independent farms, so I'd say more like 85% of all meat in the west is slaughter house meat. And frankly I doubt people care if they eat violence seeing how the very foundations of the west is a product of violence, its just sheltered away from the big part of it--and guess what, that's just part of life.

no one has been ranting here - just responding ... we all know death is part of existence ... is murder or sanctioned murder ... we are born and barring accidents or illness we will die naturally ... so death is a peaceful process SLAUGHTER is not ...

The slaughtering of animals is a part of life just as pleasure and bliss are. Now obviously it isn't attractive, but it shouldn't be egregious seeing as how the past 1000 years have revolved around murder, disease, and famine. Only recently in the democratic cradle has man become so akin to the feelings of other mammals--and that's simply because westerners aren't used to slaughtering there own animals, and aren't used to seeing live executions, or having to fight to the death for land or a belief ect, ect. Violence has been shadowed and is just an icon in the media; most have been brought up as cowards, and some of the effects are this "animal craze". To fix any effect the cause must be changed, so petitioning against animal cruelty isn't going to work when man is still slaughtering his own kind.

[izzy]

you know there is no point in this to and fro argument ... it is not in your head but in your heart that the slaughter of animals becomes wrong ... you can rationalise anything .. including war ... that is why we are in Iraq now !!

But you are talking rubbish on a few fronts ..

1] you have to have a license to slaughter animals and 95% of them are sent to slaughter houses ..

Only recently in the democratic cradle has man become so akin to the feelings of other mammals--and that's simply because westerners aren't used to slaughtering there own animals, and aren't used to seeing live executions, or having to fight to the death

what are you saying here ... ???

man has always been akin to the feelings of other mammals .. what aload of bull ..

are you saying because violence has always happened then it should be allowed to continue ..

Are you saying that watching live executions and having to fight to the death was some sort of ' rite of passage ''

OK let me tell you something ...

There is no excuse for poverty / murder / violence ... NONE ..

All of the above have been used by the PTB over millenia to control us keep us enslaved and in fear ...

You are providing justification for this ... WAKE UP !!

YOU NEED TO WAKE UP .... none of the above is acceptable ... change will happen when you wake up to who you are and do not accept this crap and pain

right now you sound like a mind controlled clone .. seriously free your mind .. wake up ... FEEL ! dont Justify

[romas]

I'm pretty sure evolution of consciousness will take us to full vegan life style at some point, right now we're moving away from religious fundamentalism, social pyramids etc.

Some people seem to evolved faster than others though.

[izzy]

i am sure you are right ...

[jvx19]

I'm pretty sure evolution of consciousness will take us to full vegan life style at some point, right now we're moving away from religious fundamentalism, social pyramids etc.

Some people seem to evolved faster than others though.

I hope you can see your arrogance here.

[pepsirat]

Most animals are self aware if you spend a lot of time with animal and real watch them they have the same emotions we do.

As for cows they do feel pain and emotional pain. Iv seen animals grieve for their young. Did you know sheep can tell who their heard members are from photographs.

I have pet rats they have emotions ok maby they dont understand them like we do but they have them.

As for plants i believe not that i know for sure that they have some sort of awareness.

But since most of us don't know how to service without eating yet we have to eat someone.:confused:

But what i think we should do at the very least is give other living things respect and understanding.

As for the reptilians i have no hate for them and dont judge them. However dose not mean i except what they do and will do everything i can to stop them.

Well thats just my view on things:)

[cruise4]

"I have pet rats"

I had two pet rats too. Highly intelligent. You could teach them stuff in no time flat. Also very clean animals. Chose their own toilet area and stuck to it. As babies they could get through the bars of their cage and I soon realised you could just let them loose around the place and they'd go back of their own accord. When one was dying the other sat on my mother's lap and without doubt was grieving and sad. He didn't last more than a few days himself after that. They would sit and chatter with you and allsorts of antics. They were also highly sensitive to others and the type of person they were.

[kingmonkey]

There are other reasons apart from animal rights issues not to eat meat, the meat and dairy industry is a HUGE burden on the environment, it creates toxins that effect air quality, water, plantlife, everything... It uses ten times more water to process the end product of cattle (ready to eat meat) than it does to grow veg. Also mass farmed meat is extremely unhealthy due to growth hormones, steroids and other things needed to rear an animal in captivity, this also goes for dairy.

[pepsirat]

"I have pet rats"

I had two pet rats too. Highly intelligent. You could teach them stuff in no time flat. Also very clean animals. Chose their own toilet area and stuck to it. As babies they could get through the bars of their cage and I soon realized you could just let them loose around the place and they'd go back of their own accord. When one was dying the other sat on my mother's lap and without doubt was grieving and sad. He didn't last more than a few days himself after that. They would sit and chatter with you and allsorts of antics. They were also highly sensitive to others and the type of person they were.

Yeah pet rats a grate im getting some rescue rats at the end of the week.
My rats a vegetarian too lol not that it bothers them if they eat meat or not :)

[kingmonkey]

I'm pretty sure evolution of consciousness will take us to full vegan life style at some point, right now we're moving away from religious fundamentalism, social pyramids etc.

Some people seem to evolved faster than others though.

Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ~Albert Einstein

[izzy]

D' vinci said something similar so did Ghandi ... and I agree ... but not a forced vegetarian diet .. when man has reached a state where they no longer want to kill to live ..

when they can truely feel the pain of another ... and when they refuse to turn a blind eye

[pilgrim]

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
"To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being."
Mahatma Gandhi, statesman and philosopher

"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."
Pythagoras, mathematician

"Our task must be to free ourselves . . . by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel Prize 1921

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist

"To a man whose mind is free there is something even more intolerable in the sufferings of animals than in the sufferings of man. For with the latter it is at least admitted that suffering is evil and that the man who causes it is a criminal. But thousands of animals are uselessly butchered every day without a shadow of remorse. If any man were to refer to it, he would be thought ridiculous. And that is the unpardonable crime."
Romain Rolland, author, Nobel Prize 1915

"If a group of beings from another planet were to land on Earth -- beings who considered themselves as superior to you as you feel yourself to be to other animals -- would you concede them the rights over you that you assume over other animals?"
George Bernard Shaw, playwright, Nobel Prize 1925

"What is it that should trace the insuperable line? ...The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?"
Jeremy Bentham, philosopher

"In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought."
Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978

"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being."
Abraham Lincoln, 16th U.S. President

"You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity."
Ralph Waldo Emerson, essayist

"As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields."
"What I think about vivisection is that if people admit that they have the right to take or endanger the life of living beings for the benefit of many, there will be no limit to their cruelty."
Leo Tolstoy author

"I cannot fish without falling a little in self-respect...always when I have done I feel it would have been better if I had not fished."
Henry David Thoreau, author

"While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?"
"Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research."
George Bernard Shaw

"I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't...The pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further."
Mark Twain, author

"Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
Thomas Edison, inventor

[thelucifer]

I'm pretty sure evolution of consciousness will take us to full vegan life style at some point, right now we're moving away from religious fundamentalism, social pyramids etc.

Some people seem to evolved faster than others though.

According to the Bible, preflood peoples were vegetarian, so we have devolved.

[pepsirat]

I agree with all them people

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
"To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being."
Mahatma Gandhi, statesman and philosopher

"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."
Pythagoras, mathematician

"Our task must be to free ourselves . . . by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel Prize 1921

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist

"To a man whose mind is free there is something even more intolerable in the sufferings of animals than in the sufferings of man. For with the latter it is at least admitted that suffering is evil and that the man who causes it is a criminal. But thousands of animals are uselessly butchered every day without a shadow of remorse. If any man were to refer to it, he would be thought ridiculous. And that is the unpardonable crime."
Romain Rolland, author, Nobel Prize 1915

"If a group of beings from another planet were to land on Earth -- beings who considered themselves as superior to you as you feel yourself to be to other animals -- would you concede them the rights over you that you assume over other animals?"
George Bernard Shaw, playwright, Nobel Prize 1925

"What is it that should trace the insuperable line? ...The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?"
Jeremy Bentham, philosopher

"In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought."
Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978

"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being."
Abraham Lincoln, 16th U.S. President

"You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity."
Ralph Waldo Emerson, essayist

"As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields."
"What I think about vivisection is that if people admit that they have the right to take or endanger the life of living beings for the benefit of many, there will be no limit to their cruelty."
Leo Tolstoy author

"I cannot fish without falling a little in self-respect...always when I have done I feel it would have been better if I had not fished."
Henry David Thoreau, author

"While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?"
"Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research."
George Bernard Shaw

"I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't...The pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further."
Mark Twain, author

"Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
Thomas Edison, inventor

[thelucifer]

When I realized we are all (humans, animals, and even aliens and reptoids if there were any) children of GOD I went vegetarian, 1996.


One thing that really troubles me are those who "love" the animal world (and may be vegetarians) but hate humans.

What an absurdity.

[kingmonkey]

When I realized we are all (humans, animals, and even aliens and reptoids if there were any) children of GOD I went vegetarian, 1996.


One thing that really troubles me are those who "love" the animal world (and may be vegetarians) but hate humans.

What an absurdity.

I think in (not exclusively) vegetarian circles their is a school of thought that it's more O.K for humans to suffer because they deserve it, where as animals are free from bad deeds and are more pure...Which of course is a load of shit because animals lack the brainwashing and psychological neurosis that humans suffer...we're all victims of an unfair and unjust system; animals and humans alike.


The part that separates humanity from the rest of the animal kingdom is far from infallible and is open to the most severe corruption if you let it be. It's often a road some never start down, trying to free your mind.

[izzy]

i agree .. with both of you

[kingmonkey]

All life is precious, human and otherwise.

"The earth does not belong to man; Man belongs to the earth. This we know. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of the earth. Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself."

[revolutionary_jam]

i got microprotein based ham substitute and it tastes and smells very realistic i'm so chuffed cos i can eat less meet, it's very hard for me to cut down

[izzy]

i got microprotein based ham substitute and it tastes and smells very realistic i'm so chuffed cos i can eat less meet, it's very hard for me to cut down


what exactly is that ? and where do you get it from ?

[revolutionary_jam]

it's a fungus and i just got it in the supermarket i will tell you the product name tomoz x

[jvx19]

jeez people, take a look in the mirror at your teeth. If you feel that those meat cutting incisors are bad, then go ahead and force yourself to suffer by not getting the proper nutrients to survive. Contribute to the negative health of this planet by feeling guilt about being human. We need to understand ourselves in order to accept ourselves and if you cannot accept who we are then you will hate humanity as I see SOME not all vegetarians doing. This guilt and hatred is not good for the planet. Please have a laugh once in awhile. Introducing....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Djohakx_FE

[izzy]

jeez people, take a look in the mirror at your teeth. If you feel that those meat cutting incisors are bad, then go ahead and force yourself to suffer by not getting the proper nutrients to survive. Contribute to the negative health of this planet by feeling guilt about being human. We need to understand ourselves in order to accept ourselves and if you cannot accept who we are then you will hate humanity as I see SOME not all vegetarians doing. This guilt and hatred is not good for the planet. Please have a laugh once in awhile. Introducing....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Djohakx_FE

WHAT GUILT AND HATRED - WHY ARE you writing this ...

you just want to disrupt this thread and add bad energy

[jvx19]

the idea of "eating meat is bad" IS guilt and hatred of humanity. Wake up.

Do you regret that your teeth are designed for cutting through flesh?

[jvx19]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Y_PD-2vo4

[megafish33]

the idea of "eating meat is bad" IS guilt and hatred of humanity. Wake up.

Do you regret that your teeth are designed for cutting through flesh?

Agreed. People think our evolution came from root vegetables cooking over flames and fruit picked off trees... actually, it involved the sacrifice of countless other animals as well.

I do think that one day we'll probably stop eating meat... we'll probably just grow it... wonder what that will taste like...

[izzy]

the idea of "eating meat is bad" IS guilt and hatred of humanity. Wake up.

Do you regret that your teeth are designed for cutting through flesh?

when you wake up and your vibration increases you will see differently --- and you will feel what is meant here.

right now u r just trying to disrupt this thread - for your own agenda - i am gonna ignore u now

namaste

[kingmonkey]

jeez people, take a look in the mirror at your teeth. If you feel that those meat cutting incisors are bad, then go ahead and force yourself to suffer by not getting the proper nutrients to survive. Contribute to the negative health of this planet by feeling guilt about being human. We need to understand ourselves in order to accept ourselves and if you cannot accept who we are then you will hate humanity as I see SOME not all vegetarians doing. This guilt and hatred is not good for the planet. Please have a laugh once in awhile. Introducing....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Djohakx_FE

I don't eat meat, and I think humans are probably "designed/evolved" to eat whatever they come across in their environments which might include meat, i don't know. But the teeth of a human are nothing like the teeth of any other animal that has a predominantly meat based diet. The "meat cutting incisors" are there for ripping through tough food in general, if they were for meat we'd have fangs like a dog/wolf/lion/tiger. All nutrients that humans need are available in plant life. Meat contains too much in the way of various nutrients etc. and is not good for you. And as for "the negative health of this planet", what negative energy etc. do you think the suffering and death of millions of animals causes? Never mind the pollution and deforestation caused by livestock farming. Perhaps humans feel guilty because they are guilty of screwing over the planet.

P.S. I have plenty of fun, i just choose to do it without a bowel full of undigested, fetid, carcinogenic meat waste. :)

[megafish33]

MMMMMMMMMM.... cow..... (http://www.lobels.com/store/main/heritage_main.asp) :D *drools*

Actually, I don't eat so much meat anymore... just finished some corn (with butter!) and tomatoes... Fellow carnivores take note... Vegetation can be excellent fuel too. As long as it's kept in moderation. ;) :p

[meave]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Y_PD-2vo4

lol:D

[pepsirat]

The reson i dont eat meat apart from the way animals are treat. I see an animal as equal as humans and like them the same. I would not kill a human for food so i wont kill an animal.

All of my family are meat eaters but as a child i never realy liked meat. I dont think people are bad for eating meat. I just wished the respected the animal they eat an give thanks to the soul.

That is my opinion on it :)

[thelucifer]

Through grade school and middle school I was amazed at the amount of info via the school my son brought home about eating meat.
Indoctrination seemed clear.

Taught we came from animals, taught to eat animals, and then wonder why people act worse than animals !


Vegetarianism is one of the parts of unconditional love.


Does unconditional love exclude any of gods children ?



I shalt not say you cant, but I can think of some very good reasons why one shouldn't !

[thelucifer]

I got to thinking, how funny a vegetarian thread thing going in the Reptilians section.

And now the lyrics "I wish I was in Tijuana eating barbecueded iguana" is in my head. lol

[lilavati]

you are what you eat

[miss_braindeath]

I must eat something. Everyone must.

Good that I eat plants directly and don't feed animals with tons of them before I eat the animals, so I need to kill much less plants.

Everyone who eats meat of "livestock" kills not only animals, also much more plants.

And, the topic of the thread is so TRUE, so true that I had to put it on top of this forum.

[marcusbrody]

Thank you Miss Brain dead

[supertzar]

plants are not self-aware..

Animals aren't self-aware either. That is why I don't consider dolphins animals. Elephants seem in between to me. Certain apes might have it, maybe certain dogs, maybe even certain birds have self-awareness. Farm animals don't. You can train an ox to pull a plow, but it doesn't know that it is tilling the field. It doesn't think like we do and dolphins do. Dolphins can recognize themselves in a mirror like a human. Farm animals can't because they are not self-aware. They don't even know they exist.

[gaias child]

Animals aren't self-aware either. That is why I don't consider dolphins animals. Elephants seem in between to me. Certain apes might have it, maybe certain dogs, maybe even certain birds have self-awareness. Farm animals don't. You can train an ox to pull a plow, but it doesn't know that it is tilling the field. It doesn't think like we do and dolphins do. Dolphins can recognize themselves in a mirror like a human. Farm animals can't because they are not self-aware. They don't even know they exist.

I don't get the feeling you understand or connect with animals , you just quoting stuff that is known, I understand that most people do not connect with animals in the way some do. I get so tired of scientists that have spent their lives studying and researching have finally acknowledged animals (most)do have feelings and emotions and empathy after all. I k new that when I was 5 years old. But I was told all my life they didn't now it is being finally acknowledged

Most animals can be trained (mind controlled) like humans,dogs dolphins, elephants apes, rats, lions cows horses etc. I thnk all animals have connectedness and their own awareness and connectedness to the world they are living in, unlike many humans, those who have been abused suffer trauma like humans, but studies by a guy studying trauma said that despite the hardships wild animals live with they do not suffer trauma only those in captivity . I thin the ox pulling the plow is traumatised, they are animals that are nomadic and roam large distances by nature they are being deprived of living their lives naturally.

.

You might want to read animals in translation by Temple Grandin, an autistic animal behaviourist gifted in her understanding of animals. Many autistic people have deep connection to animals would disagree with you, autistic people are also regarded as non self aware which is also mainstream BS.

[supertzar]

I don't get the feeling you understand or connect with animals , you just quoting stuff that is known, I understand that most people do not connect with animals in the way some do. I get so tired of scientists that have spent their lives studying and researching have finally acknowledged animals (most)do have feelings and emotions and empathy after all. I k new that when I was 5 years old. But I was told all my life they didn't now it is being finally acknowledged

Most animals can be trained (mind controlled) like humans,dogs dolphins, elephants apes, rats, lions cows horses etc. I thnk all animals have connectedness and their own awareness and connectedness to the world they are living in, unlike many humans, those who have been abused suffer trauma like humans, but studies by a guy studying trauma said that despite the hardships wild animals live with they do not suffer trauma only those in captivity . I thin the ox pulling the plow is traumatised, they are animals that are nomadic and roam large distances by nature they are being deprived of living their lives naturally.

.

You might want to read animals in translation by Temple Grandin, an autistic animal behaviourist gifted in her understanding of animals. Many autistic people have deep connection to animals would disagree with you, autistic people are also regarded as non self aware which is also mainstream BS.

Well I think you are out of touch if you think it is traumatic for an ox to pull a correctly harnessed plow. I also think you are out of touch because you don't understand the difference between feeling and self-awareness. Farm animals can sense their surroundings, but the difference between them and humans and dolphins is they don't know they can sense it. They don't have any understanding of the concept of 'I.' They have no self-reflection. They don't graze in the field and think to themselves "This is pretty fucking good. I'm all eating this grass and shit..." They just do it. I'm sure they get a certain fulfillment out of it or a "good feeling," but they can't think about anything in the way we think.

[gaias child]

Well I think you are out of touch if you think it is traumatic for an ox to pull a correctly harnessed plow. I also think you are out of touch because you don't understand the difference between feeling and self-awareness. Farm animals can sense their surroundings, but the difference between them and humans and dolphins is they don't know they can sense it. They don't have any understanding of the concept of 'I.' They have no self-reflection. They don't graze in the field and think to themselves "This is pretty fucking good. I'm all eating this grass and shit..." They just do it. I'm sure they get a certain fulfillment out of it or a "good feeling," but they can't think about anything in the way we think.


Abused animals are traumatised the ox pulling the plow is depressed. As I said these animals are nomadic and to confine them of natural living depresses them, I feel and sense it from them.

It is just my opinon , how do you know what they think? or that they have no self awareness.

It is about having a higher consciousness that matters and all animals have that, that is why no wild animal died in the Tsuanami or the Haiti earthquake, they knew it was coming unlike so called advanced self aware human bengs with all their technology, who is really more self aware!!!

[miss_braindeath]

Animals are self-aware. All of them. Even fish, insects and such.

But you can't really feel that if you just eat and kill them without thinking about what shit you are doing.

People like this make me sick. :rolleyes:

[supertzar]

How many species recognize themselves in a mirror? Let's see...humans, certain apes and certain dolphins. Perhaps certain elephants. Huh! Whadya know? Maybe I am on the right track after all.

[holybeast]

i wonder if the animals would over populate the world if we did not eat them?

[miss_braindeath]

No. They aren't as sick as humans are.

[rhydra]

Humans are designed to eat scraps of rotten meat that has been hanging around for days in the sun. Raw meat takes too much digestion, the human stomach cannot cope with raw meat so putrefying the meat over a time make it edible enough to be properly digested.
Cooking took over from when people used to be able to distract the big predators long enough to be able to steal the odd bone or lump of offal. Cooking breaks down the cell walls in the animal matter so that the human stomach enzymes have an easier time digesting it.

I decided a couple of decades ago to reject meat and animal products, leaving it behind as one of the corporal instincts which I left behind, animal flesh is something which I am no longer concerned with. I'm not bothered if other people enjoy it, everyone makes their own decisions, as long as no one tries to force me to eat it.

[revolutionary_jam]

I recommend people do less or none of eating dead animals for every reason imagineable

ethical reasons, health reasons, environmental reasons, spiritual reasons, you name it.

[subl1minal]

Well I think you are out of touch if you think it is traumatic for an ox to pull a correctly harnessed plow. I also think you are out of touch because you don't understand the difference between feeling and self-awareness. Farm animals can sense their surroundings, but the difference between them and humans and dolphins is they don't know they can sense it. They don't have any understanding of the concept of 'I.' They have no self-reflection. They don't graze in the field and think to themselves "This is pretty fucking good. I'm all eating this grass and shit..." They just do it. I'm sure they get a certain fulfillment out of it or a "good feeling," but they can't think about anything in the way we think.

So they just do it in order to survive? or because they KNOW it tastes good and it's good for them?

There was a News article recently about a chicken that would refuse to eat certain things the Farmer gave it, because it knew it wasn't good for itself. Same as the News article about Crows remembering and recognizing your face if you do anything to alert them.

These really sound like traits of 'un-aware' animals :rolleyes:

[ant777uk]

unless everyone on this forum is a vegetarian/vegan,and lives without exploiting animals,i think it is the height of hypocracy to complain about reptillians!

Agreed

[ant777uk]

plants are not self-aware..

Yeah they are. In fact I have a mate who reckons he had an intense philosophical chat with a tree for around 1 hour. Shortly after watching Avatar.

[supertzar]

So they just do it in order to survive? or because they KNOW it tastes good and it's good for them?

There was a News article recently about a chicken that would refuse to eat certain things the Farmer gave it, because it knew it wasn't good for itself. Same as the News article about Crows remembering and recognizing your face if you do anything to alert them.

These really sound like traits of 'un-aware' animals :rolleyes:

They might know in a sense, but they don't know they know. That is the difference.

[supertzar]

Yeah they are

Really? You think a carrot sits in the ground and thinks to itself "What am I doing here? What is my destiny? What am I, anyway?"

[ant777uk]

Really? You think a carrot sits in the ground and thinks to itself "What am I doing here? What is my destiny? What am I, anyway?"

Yes I do in fact. If I was a carrot I certainly would anyway.

[supertzar]

Yes I do in fact. If I was a carrot I certainly would anyway.

Why don't you go pretend to be one then? For a long time. A really long time.

[revolutionary_jam]

lol people will say anything to defend a diet contributing to the suffering of innocent animals
I wish they'd just be honest and say, look, I think it's worth animals being killed for my oral pleasure, and thats that
I'd respect them more

[supertzar]

lol people will say anything to defend a diet contributing to the suffering of innocent animals
I wish they'd just be honest and say, look, I think it's worth animals being killed for my oral pleasure, and thats that
I'd respect them more

That's funny because it's only the vegetarians that are saying things like "all animals are self-aware." That's ridiculous. Animals have no self-awareness meaning they do not know they are alive. They have no concept of "I." That is what makes them animals and not people.

I eat meat because I need it to be healthy. When I was vegetarian for six years I was weak and spaced out. As soon as I ate meat again I felt like myself again. It's not for my "oral pleasure." That sounds stupid.

[revolutionary_jam]

That's funny because it's only the vegetarians that are saying things like "all animals are self-aware." That's ridiculous. Animals have no self-awareness meaning they do not know they are alive. They have no concept of "I." That is what makes them animals and not people.

I eat meat because I need it to be healthy. When I was vegetarian for six years I was weak and spaced out. As soon as I ate meat again I felt like myself again. It's not for my "oral pleasure." That sounds stupid.

I don't have the slightest moral issue with people eating meat for health reasons
almost everyone who eats meat does it almost every time because they get enjoyment out of eating a dead animal that was killed for them to eat

I'm not condemning them for it either, but thats the gods honest truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECIVW0A1t_0

[supertzar]

I don't have the slightest moral issue with people eating meat for health reasons
almost everyone who eats meat does it almost every time because they get enjoyment out of eating a dead animal that was killed for them to eat

I'm not condemning them for it either, but thats the gods honest truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECIVW0A1t_0

Well, it is extremely enjoyable and it has been for a pretty god damn long time. Animals can be killed and eaten in a spiritual way, too. I'm not on the level of paleolithic hunters and their spiritual practices, but at least I am eating almost 100% locally grown free range animals, many of which I participate in raising myself.