101 contradictions in the Bible [Archive] - David Icke's Official Forums

abhie

05-12-2007, 09:26 AM

101 Contradictions In The Bible :

1.Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

2.In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)

3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?

(a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

4.God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)

(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

5.How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

6.How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

(a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)

(b) Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

7.How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8)

(b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

8.The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

(a) Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)

(b) Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

9.When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

(a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)

(b) Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

10.How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

11.When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

(a) One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)

(b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

12.How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

(a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)
(b) Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

13.In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?

(a) Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)

(b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

14.How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

(a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)

(b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

15.Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

(a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)

(b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

16.Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?

(a) Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)

(b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)

17.How many were the children of Zattu?

(a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)

(b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)

18.How many were the children of Azgad?

(a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)

(b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)

19.How many were the children of Adin?

(a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)

(b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)

20.How many were the children of Hashum?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)

(b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)

21.How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)

(b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)

22.Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

(a) 29,818 (Ezra)

(b) 31,089 (Nehemiah)

23.How many singers accompanied the assembly?

(a) Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)

(b) Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)

Lots more, so download the pdf:

http://www.click-now.net/cgi-bin/ebookdl/download.pl?file=e0160

adimon

05-12-2007, 09:52 AM

jimijams

05-12-2007, 10:36 AM

"Thou shalt not commit adultery"

God makes Adam and Lilith.
Adam fucks Lilith, but he won't let her go on top, so he gets God to banish her.
God makes Eve from Adam's rib so she is subservient.
Adam fucks Eve.
Eve gives birth to Cain and Abel.
Cain kills Abel.
Cain is banished to the Land of Nod (the as yet unmentioned annex to The Garden of Eden...probably Coventry)
Adam fucks Eve
Eve gives birth to Zeth.

So what transpires next that DOESN'T contradict the 7th commandment?

Either Adam fucks Eve, she gives birth to a girl, then either Adam or Zeth fucks the girl when she's grown up. Or...Zeth fucks Eve...

Either way... :eek:
Yeah but thats before God handed down the commandments to Moses, before that it was anything goes!:cool:

abhie

05-12-2007, 10:59 AM

"Thou shalt not commit adultery"

God makes Adam and Lilith.
Adam fucks Lilith, but he won't let her go on top, so he gets God to banish her.
God makes Eve from Adam's rib so she is subservient.
Adam fucks Eve.
Eve gives birth to Cain and Abel.
Cain kills Abel.
Cain is banished to the Land of Nod (the as yet unmentioned annex to The Garden of Eden...probably Coventry)
Adam fucks Eve
Eve gives birth to Zeth.

So what transpires next that DOESN'T contradict the 7th commandment?

Either Adam fucks Eve, she gives birth to a girl, then either Adam or Zeth fucks the girl when she's grown up. Or...Zeth fucks Eve...

Either way... :eek:

Incestous fuckers!!

Any which way, the Bible is like a fable of belief for a camp of retards!
No mention of our origins from the star system of Pleides.
The existance of evidence as to our extra terrestrial origins.
Our ancient pyramid culture.

All we have is a bunch of retards going around looking for the remains of a snake with an apple in its gob!

synak

05-12-2007, 01:11 PM

"Thou shalt not commit adultery"

God makes Adam and Lilith.
Adam fucks Lilith, but he won't let her go on top, so he gets God to banish her.
God makes Eve from Adam's rib so she is subservient.
Adam fucks Eve.
Eve gives birth to Cain and Abel.
Cain kills Abel.
Cain is banished to the Land of Nod (the as yet unmentioned annex to The Garden of Eden...probably Coventry)
Adam fucks Eve
Eve gives birth to Zeth.

So what transpires next that DOESN'T contradict the 7th commandment?

Either Adam fucks Eve, she gives birth to a girl, then either Adam or Zeth fucks the girl when she's grown up. Or...Zeth fucks Eve...

Either way... :eek:

Yup and guess who the wife of Osiris was? His own sister Isis. They also had children. What is one of the common stories heard about with the illuminati? Incestuous breeding to maintain the 'bloodline'. Coinkydinks? I think not. Its all there for us to connect. Thanks for the laugh by the way, its so true.

lydia78

05-12-2007, 01:47 PM

"Thou shalt not commit adultery"

God makes Adam and Lilith.
Adam fucks Lilith, but he won't let her go on top, so he gets God to banish her.
God makes Eve from Adam's rib so she is subservient.
Adam fucks Eve.
Eve gives birth to Cain and Abel.
Cain kills Abel.
Cain is banished to the Land of Nod (the as yet unmentioned annex to The Garden of Eden...probably Coventry)
Adam fucks Eve
Eve gives birth to Zeth.

So what transpires next that DOESN'T contradict the 7th commandment?

Either Adam fucks Eve, she gives birth to a girl, then either Adam or Zeth fucks the girl when she's grown up. Or...Zeth fucks Eve...

Either way... :eek:

Yeah good one, this is the bit and i think it's an important bit, where the supression of women occurs...the demonisation of lilith because she was equal to adam and wanted that equality but was denied it is the continuation and pattern of inequality between the sexes.

snoopsnuffleopagus

05-12-2007, 04:02 PM

Ladies & Gentlemen, Cordial Felicitations:

LOL; Abhie, in your zeal to present defamatory information about the Book Yahweh inspired to be scribed: The Book of Yahweh, you neglected to provide the version of the Book of Yahweh referenced.

Is this list drawn from a King James Version?

I think probably so.

I have over a Dozen Translations of the Book of Yahweh.

Amongst them: The Anchor Bible; Zondervans Interlinear and the Book of Yahweh (yahweh.com), These do not contain these contradictions.

Abhie, stop by the Book of Yahweh Thread, I may be able to clarify some of the 'purported inconsistencies'.

The 'Lillith' business is pure Jazz. Zero 'Truth' in that and should be presented as Theory. Not Fact.

Lydia, you stopped talking to me after I presented Ezekiel 28-40, indicating Satan, Hillel is Yahwehs Wife.

This is not a put down of Womankind. Throughout the Book of Yahweh women are exalted and protected and preserved as according to the Law.

The Modern Feminist Movement is one of Satans greatest deceptions.

I see wrecks of Women everyday due to the Liberal Mores that are now the Norm.

In the USA, more than 50% of children are raised without their Biological Father.

STDs have corrupted the Blood of many women, and this corrupted Blood will be passed through successive generations.

The core matter of the Book of Yahweh is the Torah, the Codex of Law that is the Focus of the Entire Book. The Scriptures are the Vehicle the Torah is delivered by.

This is consistent from Genesis to Revelation.

All of you are welcome to come to the Book of Yahweh Thread and question me.

Right now, all of you are presenting Poor Scholarship and Mis-Information.

Hey!, if it makes you happy! ;)

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

titurel

05-12-2007, 04:16 PM

Cleared-up "Bible Contradictions":

http://www.thebereans.net/contra-i01.shtml

.

snoopsnuffleopagus

05-12-2007, 04:16 PM

Incestous fuckers!!

Any which way, the Bible is like a fable of belief for a camp of retards!
No mention of our origins from the star system of Pleides.
The existance of evidence as to our extra terrestrial origins.
Our ancient pyramid culture.

All we have is a bunch of retards going around looking for the remains of a snake with an apple in its gob!.

Abhie, as an 'Enlightened' Individual, consider this: As you point your Finger and cast the aspersion of: RETARD!, realise you have three fingers pointing back at you.

So Adimon! That Thread you Sired: 'Lets not cast Aspersions'.

Looks like that enlightened Philosophy could be applied to this post I quoted above.

;)

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

titurel

05-12-2007, 04:19 PM

"Thou shalt not commit adultery"

God makes Adam and Lilith.
Adam fucks Lilith, but he won't let her go on top, so he gets God to banish her.
God makes Eve from Adam's rib so she is subservient.
Adam fucks Eve.
Eve gives birth to Cain and Abel.
Cain kills Abel.
Cain is banished to the Land of Nod (the as yet unmentioned annex to The Garden of Eden...probably Coventry)
Adam fucks Eve
Eve gives birth to Zeth.

So what transpires next that DOESN'T contradict the 7th commandment?

Either Adam fucks Eve, she gives birth to a girl, then either Adam or Zeth fucks the girl when she's grown up. Or...Zeth fucks Eve...

Either way... :eek:
What's apparent are these fucking ignoramus comments of yours. Adam and Eve weren't the only in Eden because "Adam" also refers to a race... the race of Adam.

zero1

05-12-2007, 05:51 PM

Yahweh GOD is a superhero with nigh-unlimited powers!

Bible GOD is...pretend Yahweh!

I don't need Scripture to know the "rules".

;)

titurel

05-12-2007, 06:27 PM

Yeah, man just makes the rules up as he goes along, hence the head long moral decline of culture and big headed people thinking they can put things o right on their own! No wonder the illuminati love Satan the Devil and death and hate God...

adimon

05-12-2007, 07:19 PM

.

Abhie, as an 'Enlightened' Individual, consider this: As you point your Finger and cast the aspersion of: RETARD!, realise you have three fingers pointing back at you.

So Adimon! That Thread you Sired: 'Lets not cast Aspersions'.

Looks like that enlightened Philosophy could be applied to this post I quoted above.

;)

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

Very true Snoops. Another beautiful example below. Believing that the Apollo 11 footage is fraudulent means I know I should prepare myself for people laughing or questioning me. Why don't religious people follow suit I don't understand. If they have faith then what does it matter. I'm not name calling.

What's apparent are these fucking ignoramus comments of yours. Adam and Eve weren't the only in Eden because "Adam" also refers to a race... the race of Adam.

titurel

05-12-2007, 07:21 PM

Why don't religious people follow suit I don't understand. If they have faith then what does it matter.
The NWO religion of atheism is also based on faith!

adimon

05-12-2007, 07:56 PM

The NWO religion of atheism is also based on faith!

lol :D Atheism is NOT a religion. Look into the etymology of the word.

Main Entry:
athe·ism Listen to the pronunciation of atheism
Pronunciation:
\ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date:
1546

1archaic : ungodliness, wickedness2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity

A disbelief, not a belief.

ichi wa zen

05-12-2007, 08:09 PM

lol :D Atheism is NOT a religion. Look into the etymology of the word.

Main Entry:
athe·ism Listen to the pronunciation of atheism
Pronunciation:
\ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date:
1546

1archaic : ungodliness, wickedness2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity

A disbelief, not a belief.

So you believe there is nothing to believe :D

No one can prove God exists nor that he does not exist, so your disbelief is also a belief because its not that you can prove that God does not exist and vice versa.

titurel

05-12-2007, 08:14 PM

lol :D Atheism is NOT a religion. Look into the etymology of the word.

Main Entry:
athe·ism Listen to the pronunciation of atheism
Pronunciation:
\ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date:
1546

1archaic : ungodliness, wickedness2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity

A disbelief, not a belief.
Athism is a religion! :D

You're only giving a part definition! According to the Oxford English Dictionary, religion can apply to anything that's believed in, including football, hence the expression "football was his religion". That's why people rightly also talk about the love of money as being a religion. Atheism cannot prove that God does not exist. Atheism is a belief system that's based on faith! It's the same faith that adherents to the NWO promote and that in itself speaks volumes!

mightiswrong

05-12-2007, 08:25 PM

It is accurate to call statists supporters of a religious cult as for atheism it is dogma like any religion.

titurel

05-12-2007, 08:40 PM

I'm not name calling.
No but you provoke name calling when you use crude and ignorant language in your posts... hypcrisy springs to mind!

Either Adam fucks Eve, she gives birth to a girl, then either Adam or Zeth fucks the girl when she's grown up. Or...Zeth fucks Eve...

adimon

06-12-2007, 12:45 AM

No but you provoke name calling when you use crude and ignorant language in your posts... hypcrisy springs to mind!

Crude...maybe - although my Christian friends can see the funny side.

Ignorant...I think I've fairly well summarised what I've read in the religious texts.

ssyx

06-12-2007, 12:56 AM

No one can prove God exists nor that he does not exist, so your disbelief is also a belief because its not that you can prove that God does not exist and vice versa.

Can anything be proven to not exist?

optimus pigpot

06-12-2007, 12:59 AM

lydia78

06-12-2007, 09:24 AM

Ladies & Gentlemen, Cordial Felicitations:

The 'Lillith' business is pure Jazz. Zero 'Truth' in that and should be presented as Theory. Not Fact.

Lydia, you stopped talking to me after I presented Ezekiel 28-40, indicating Satan, Hillel is Yahwehs Wife.

This is not a put down of Womankind. Throughout the Book of Yahweh women are exalted and protected and preserved as according to the Law.

The Modern Feminist Movement is one of Satans greatest deceptions.

I see wrecks of Women everyday due to the Liberal Mores that are now the Norm.

In the USA, more than 50% of children are raised without their Biological Father.

STDs have corrupted the Blood of many women, and this corrupted Blood will be passed through successive generations.

The core matter of the Book of Yahweh is the Torah, the Codex of Law that is the Focus of the Entire Book. The Scriptures are the Vehicle the Torah is delivered by.

This is consistent from Genesis to Revelation.

All of you are welcome to come to the Book of Yahweh Thread and question me.

Right now, all of you are presenting Poor Scholarship and Mis-Information.

Hey!, if it makes you happy! ;)

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

Hey Snoop, just to be clear, i am still talking and open to discussing lilith with regards to your post on the above, it will be looked at again.....it was awhile back..:) so please do not jump to conclusions..you certainly did not scare me off lol! also I do not prescribe to the yahweh faith so .......

However I disagree with your view of the fem movement being attributed to the unravelling on society...if women were deemed equal in the first place it would not have been necessary for them to create movements.

adimon

06-12-2007, 09:27 AM

Lilith is an extremely controversial figure within Jewish folklore. Lilith's name is not included in the creation story of the Torah but she appears in several midrashic texts. Her symbolism, history and literature are debated among Jewish scholars, feminists and other intellectuals. There are multiple origin stories for Lilith but the most popular history told views Lilith as the first wife of Adam. According to the "first Eve" story Lilith was created by God from dust and placed to live in the garden with Adam until problems arose between Adam and Lilith when Adam tried to exercise dominance over Lilith. One story tells that Lilith refused to lay beneath Adam during sex. She believed they were created equal, both from the dust of the earth, thus she should not have to lay beneath him. After Adam disagreed, Lilith fled the Garden of Eden to gain her independence. Adam told God that Lilith had left and God sent three angels, Senoi, Sansenoi, and Sammangelof, to retrieve her. The three angels found Lilith in a cave bearing children but Lilith refused to come back to the garden. The angels told her they would kill 100 of her children every day for her disobedience. In revenge, she is said to rob children of life and is responsible for the deaths of still-born infants and crib deaths (SIDS). Male children are at risk of Lilith's wrath for 8 days after birth (until circumcision) and girls are at risk for 20 days. Although Lilith stole children's lives in the night, she agreed not to kill the children who had amulets of either of the three angels.

After the angels' departure, Lilith tried to return to the garden but upon her arrival she discovered that Adam already had another mate, Eve. Out of revenge, Lilith had sex with Adam while he was sleeping and "stole his seed." With his seed she bears 'lilium,' earth-bound demons to replace her children killed by the angels. Lilith is also said to be responsible for males' erotic dreams and night emissions. Another theory says that Lilith is impregnated, thus creating more demons by masturbation and erotic dreams.

The History of Lilith

Although the figure of Lilith is commonly found in Jewish folklore and midrash, the origin of Lilith is as a Sumerian succubus. The first Jewish story of Lilith was told in the Alphabet of ben sirah. Before the introduction of the Alphabet of ben sirah, Lilith was mostly seen as a demoness instead of the "first Eve". Due to the ambiguity of Lilith, she has been represented in multiple forms in both literature and art. Some theological scholars acknowledge Lilith as the "first Eve" while others still see her as a demoness. Historically in art, Lilith has been portrayed variously ranging from risqué versions to Lilith in the garden. To view some of these depictions click on pictures on the UPenn website on Lilith.

Lilith: a power symbol?

The open-ended nature of the Lilith symbol has allowed different groups to use her as a destructive female symbol or a symbol of female power. Many feminists see Lilith as not only the first woman but the first independent woman created. In the creation story she refuses to allow Adam to dominate her and flees the garden despite the consequences. In order to retain her freedom she must give up her children and in retaliation she steals the seed of Adam. In one account of this story, Lilith is said to "mount Adam" (click here for this version). This version of the story implies that Lilith sexually violated Adam; however, other stories portray Lilith as a demoness who kills children and takes advantage of men while they are sleeping. Jewish halakhic law forbids the spilling of a man's seed and Lilith takes advantage of this, during masturbation and erotic dreams, and uses it to replenish her own offspring.

Although Lilith is controversial some feminists have used her as a symbol of empowerment. For example, one Jewish feminist magazine is called Lilith labels itself as an "Independent Jewish Woman's Magazine." The publishers use Lilith as a title because they believe she is a symbol of independence. However, those who still think of her as a demoness could turn it around and once again label feminists as male bashers or men-haters. They see Lilith as wicked and vengeful towards men and children. With any symbol or icon used by feminists, especially within a religious context, there will be controversy and opposition. Whether or not the story of Lilith is accurate is not the main issue. The "first Eve" version of the story gives Lilith a role that many women can identify within Judaism and other religious traditions. She is an independent woman who challenges the oppressive system in which she is placed. Stealing the lives of children represents a certain madness that accompanies her solitude and exclusion. Despite Lilith's downfalls, she still remains a symbol of power simply by her survival and mysteriousness. She is open for interpretation and therefore allows women to reinterpret her symbolism and power within the tradition.

http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Projects/Reln91/Power/lilith.htm

lydia78

06-12-2007, 09:36 AM

Athism is a religion! :D

You're only giving a part definition! According to the Oxford English Dictionary, religion can apply to anything that's believed in, including football, hence the expression "football was his religion". That's why people rightly also talk about the love of money as being a religion. Atheism cannot prove that God does not exist. Atheism is a belief system that's based on faith! It's the same faith that adherents to the NWO promote and that in itself speaks volumes!

Thats hilarious! you rely on the illuminati dictionary's definition of religion to base your arguement??? its all about context and the context of religion that you refer to is popular cultures slang definition of the word...social constructs ahoy!!

snoopsnuffleopagus

06-12-2007, 10:09 AM

The History of Lilith

Although the figure of Lilith is commonly found in Jewish folklore and midrash, the origin of Lilith is as a Sumerian succubus. The first Jewish story of Lilith was told in the Alphabet of ben sirah. Before the introduction of the Alphabet of ben sirah, Lilith was mostly seen as a demoness instead of the "first Eve". Due to the ambiguity of Lilith, she has been represented in multiple forms in both literature and art. Some theological scholars acknowledge Lilith as the "first Eve" while others still see her as a demoness. Historically in art, Lilith has been portrayed variously ranging from risqué versions to Lilith in the garden. To view some of these depictions click on pictures on the UPenn website on Lilith.

Cordial Felicitations Adimon:

A little sketchy on the Provenance, "SOME Theological Scholars" Should provide names.

Probably Scribed in the Hebrew ALEPHbet, not the ALPHAbet.

I enjoy these 'Stories', like the Unicorn Jazz, the Clay Sparrows Yahshua would make as a child and bring to Life.

I have studied the Midrash, at Temples and Books.

R.A.S.H.I. is a Foremost Commentator on the Old Testament.

The Midrash Speakers, spoke after dinner on the Sabbath, to small gatherings. An: After Dinner Speaker

Considered less Formal than Scripture.

Oldest Complete Pentateuch: First Five Books of the Old Testament: The 'J'ah Text>7-800 BCE

Should have provided Dates for Cited Texts.

Well, I think we can agree Womankind has had their 'Issues' for sometime.

Anyhoo; Lillith, must be 'Viewed' through the 'Lens' of the Torah and as to how it figures in Yahwehs plan.

Hmmmm.

Have you read Ezekiel 28-50?

This informs Hillel, Queen of Heaven, Satan da Debil! is Yahwehs Wife.

No Poo

It is right there in Black & White

In the Scripture there are many wonderful women, Miriam, Yahshuas Mother.

Ruth, a wonderful Lady

The Hooker who helped Yahshua Ben Nun capture Jericho..

A very powerful, independent woman: The Queen of Sheba!

etc.

People are free to make whatever they want out of this Book, yet it does actually have a clear message: The Torah>FULL STOP, PERIOD

How about the version Lillith is having dozens of Demon Babies an Hour?

Fanciful, Fabulistic?

Would not the Queen of Sheba be a superior Role Model for Womankind?

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

optimus pigpot

06-12-2007, 11:49 AM

Cordial Felicitations Adimon:

A little sketchy on the Provenance, "SOME Theological Scholars" Should provide names.

Probably Scribed in the Hebrew ALEPHbet, not the ALPHAbet.

I enjoy these 'Stories', like the Unicorn Jazz, the Clay Sparrows Yahshua would make as a child and bring to Life.

I have studied the Midrash, at Temples and Books.

R.A.S.H.I. is a Foremost Commentator on the Old Testament.

The Midrash Speakers, spoke after dinner on the Sabbath, to small gatherings. An: After Dinner Speaker

Considered less Formal than Scripture.

Oldest Complete Pentateuch: First Five Books of the Old Testament: The 'J'ah Text>7-800 BCE

Should have provided Dates for Cited Texts.

Well, I think we can agree Womankind has had their 'Issues' for sometime.

Anyhoo; Lillith, must be 'Viewed' through the 'Lens' of the Torah and as to how it figures in Yahwehs plan.

Hmmmm.

Have you read Ezekiel 28-50?

This informs Hillel, Queen of Heaven, Satan da Debil! is Yahwehs Wife.

No Poo

It is right there in Black & White

In the Scripture there are many wonderful women, Miriam, Yahshuas Mother.

Ruth, a wonderful Lady

The Hooker who helped Yahshua Ben Nun capture Jericho..

A very powerful, independent woman: The Queen of Sheba!

etc.

People are free to make whatever they want out of this Book, yet it does actually have a clear message: The Torah>FULL STOP, PERIOD

How about the version Lillith is having dozens of Demon Babies an Hour?

Fanciful, Fabulistic?

Would not the Queen of Sheba be a superior Role Model for Womankind?

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

Women are without need, same as men......... How intelligent you are Snoops... But really underneath it.. Just another religious freak trying to justify his bullshit belief under the guise of polite old man... You are another freak who likes to distort Ickes views by interpretation....

Due to this I will start my own religion today............

adimon

06-12-2007, 12:44 PM

A little sketchy on the Provenance, "SOME Theological Scholars" Should provide names.

Not my article. I have referenced. I don't really care, but it seems to fit with the whole thing about Orthodox Jewish boys wearing hair in pigtails so Lilith won't snatch them away. (She only took boys from my understanding of the mythology) It's all a story anyway as you say!

Due to this I will start my own religion today............

Haven't you been trying to start your own religion since arrival on the forum? :p

snoopsnuffleopagus

06-12-2007, 06:48 PM

Women are without need, same as men......... How intelligent you are Snoops... But really underneath it.. Just another religious freak trying to justify his bullshit belief under the guise of polite old man... You are another freak who likes to distort Ickes views by interpretation....

Due to this I will start my own religion today............

Most Cordial Felicitations OP2:

Every observation you present is wrong.

You are the neediest persona I have ever encountered in Cyber-Space.

OPTIMUS PIGPOT: LOOKATMELOOKATMELOOKATMELOOKATMELOOKATMELOOKATMELO OKATEMELOOKATMELOOKATMELOOKATME...ETC.

I have not presented Mr.Ickes Positions at all, so Distortion of Positions is impossible.

OP2: You criticize that which you do not understand, you are AFRAID of: Accountability, Responsibility, Authenticity, Respectability.

Were you in my physical presence, in less than one Earth Minute, you would be very needy.

In Need of an Ambulance, in Need of Doctors & Nurses, in Need of Medical Health Insurance,...etc.

Defend your Position: Humans have no Needs:

I say: BULL-POO

Porky: Mon Amie, it is you that waddles from thread to thread Bull Horning your inanities.

You are all Heat, no Light.

Surprise us all and Create an intelligent Post.

I await with Baited Breath.

Your 'Attack' Posts make me feel like Bugs Bunny being shot at by Elmer Fudd. All your Shots miss the mark.

'Whats up Doc?': Snoopsnuffleopagus

adimon

06-12-2007, 09:23 PM

Snoops why are you threatening physical violence? Because Pigpot disagrees with you? :confused:

optimus pigpot

06-12-2007, 09:49 PM

Haven't you been trying to start your own religion since arrival on the forum? :p

How are you Adimon... To your question the answer is yes...

Concerning Snoops verbal crap he's just spouted.... Well what does he expect us to do. Convert to Judaism.. Sorry bloke but it's really not happening and here's why!!

It's just a book written, (same as the Bible and the Koran, Book of Mormon the list is endless), by men in order to subjugate the human race... and it did so very successfully with 50% of them. Women. I really can't think of any other tool which has undermined the position of so many people, hear the word Snoops, PEOPLE, WOMEN...

Telling them that they are unclean when menstruating and can't go in here and can't do this and that... Grow up, put your fantasies away and come into the real world.. Telling other Jews that non-Jews should be treated like animals.. Again grow up..

You have no absolute tangible proof that it is the word of God. Only your faith, which is not something I'm going to base my life around..

So to you Snoops.... Have a very nice day........

titurel

09-12-2007, 05:03 AM

Ignorant...I think I've fairly well summarised what I've read in the religious texts.
Shame you haven't got any proof there is no God. Ignorant is what sums up your position from what I've read of your texts!

titurel

09-12-2007, 05:06 AM

Thats hilarious! you rely on the illuminati dictionary's definition of religion to base your arguement??? its all about context and the context of religion that you refer to is popular cultures slang definition of the word...social constructs ahoy!!
Atheism cannot prove that God does not exist. Atheism is a belief system that's based on faith! It's the same faith that adherents to the NWO promote and that in itself speaks volumes!

adimon

09-12-2007, 05:14 AM

Atheism cannot prove that God does not exist. Atheism is a belief system that's based on faith! It's the same faith that adherents to the NWO promote and that in itself speaks volumes!

Now you're just repeating yourself. THAT'S what faith is: repeating something to yourself until you believe it.

http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/20_Reasons_to_abandon_Christianity

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm

http://www.evilbible.com/Top_Ten_List.htm

http://godisimaginary.com/

http://www.400monkeys.com/God/

titurel

09-12-2007, 05:20 AM

Now you're just repeating yourself. THAT'S what faith is: repeating something to yourself until you believe it.
You're not practising what you preach... you're just repeating also because that's all you can do with your faith since you have no proof for it. You've repeated it so many times, now you believe it, hence you embrace the NWO religion willingly.

adimon

09-12-2007, 05:31 AM

hence you embrace the NWO religion willingly

So if your god is omnipotent, why does he allow the atheist NWO to dominate and subjugate you religious lot?

titurel

09-12-2007, 05:31 AM

Actually I'm only doing it to get a rise out of you.
I'm having a laugh at you! :)

adimon

09-12-2007, 05:34 AM

I'm having a laugh at you! :)

Ditto.

How long can we swap identical statements do you think? :confused:

titurel

09-12-2007, 05:38 AM

Ditto.

How long can we swap identical statements do you think? :confused:
If you don't want to see through your claims through reasonable discussion, and you get fed up making identical statements, don't make claims you can't prove in the first place!

adimon

09-12-2007, 05:43 AM

If you don't want to see through your claims through reasonable discussion, and you get fed up making identical statements, don't make claims you can't prove in the first place!

What? You're guilty of the exact same things! :D

That's my whole point. You think you're righteous, don't you? :confused:

You're going to heaven and I'm not, right?

And you can PROVE that, right?

titurel

09-12-2007, 05:48 AM

What? You're guilty of the exact same things! :D

That's my whole point. You think you're righteous, don't you? :confused:

You're going to heaven and I'm not, right?

And you can PROVE that, right?
No I don't think I'm righteous!

"There are none so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe

And that would apply to you too! :)

I also disagree there's the potential for going to heaven at death. You're far too presumptuous! ;)

adimon

09-12-2007, 05:50 AM

Presumptuous? What, like saying someone is aligned to the NWO because they don't buy a story about an invisible dude in the sky? :p

adimon

09-12-2007, 05:53 AM

"There are none so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." - Goeth

Well done for choosing one of my own to quote me, btw.

All the more complete was the self-emancipation of Goethe during his University career, when he developed into an unmistakable atheist

http://www.theosophical.ca/ReligionOfGoethe.htm

lifeofbrian

09-12-2007, 05:56 AM

No I don't think I'm righteous!

"There are none so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe

And that would apply to you too! :)

I also disagree there's the potential for going to heaven at death. You're far too presumptuous! ;)

You ought to read and ponder the books by Robert A Monroe:

Journeys Out Of The Body
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385008619/ref=nosim/neardeathexpe-20
Far Journeys
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385231822/ref=nosim/neardeathexpe-20
Ultimate Journey
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385472080/ref=nosim/neardeathexpe-20

http://near-death.com/experiences/triggers12.html

If you read Monroe you'll soon understand what "God" is.

titurel

09-12-2007, 05:57 AM

Presumptuous? What, like saying someone is aligned to the NWO because they don't buy a story about an invisible dude in the sky?
When you stick your tongue out, you only get your tongue cut off! :D

There is no "dude in the sky", as you're imaginging it. You're getting mixed up with the god of atheism, but Darwin is dead, and the evangelist Dawkins is the Ayatolah of the belief system of atheism! What proof do you have that there aren't other dimensional beings?

titurel

09-12-2007, 05:59 AM

All the more complete was the self-emancipation of Goethe during his University career, when he developed into an unmistakable atheist

http://www.theosophical.ca/ReligionOfGoethe.htm
I'm not surprised, Goethe was a Freemason! One of your own in mentality! :rolleyes:

adimon

09-12-2007, 06:02 AM

When you stick your tongue out, you only get your tongue cut off! :D

There is no "dude in the sky", as you're imaginging it. You're getting mixed up with the god of atheism, but Darwin is dead, and the evangelist Dawkins is the Ayatolah of the belief system of atheism! What proof do you have that there aren't other dimensional beings?

Are you gonna cut my tongue off then titurel? :confused:

If God is not a dude in the sky, please tell me what you think he is. There is no god of atheism, mate, that's the whole idea. Darwin was a scientist, not the inventor of atheism. There were plenty of people clued up on the God lie before Charlie. As for Dawkins, he has some interesting things to say, but I knew there was no God from a very early age, and didn't need anyone else to tell me. It's just illogical. I debunked the Bible before I was ten mate, so don't talk to me about Ayatollahs.

I have no proof of the non-existence of extra-dimensional beings. What proof do you have that there are other dimensions? This thread is about the Bible being bullshit, so can we address Christianity after you're done bashing logic? :confused:

adimon

09-12-2007, 06:04 AM

I'm not surprised, Goethe was a Freemason! One of your own in mentality! :rolleyes:

I was associating myself with him as he was an atheist. You can't admit that you made yourself look silly by quoting an atheist whilst bashing atheism, can you?

I have nothing in common with Goethe apart from the fact we saw through the Christian ruse. Me earlier in my life than him. His adolescence must have been horrible.

titurel

09-12-2007, 06:07 AM

Are you gonna cut my tongue off then titurel? :confused:

If God is not a dude in the sky, please tell me what you think he is. There is no god of atheism, mate, that's the whole idea. Darwin was a scientist, not the inventor of atheism. There were plenty of people clued up on the God lie before Charlie. As for Dawkins, he has some interesting things to say, but I knew there was no God from a very early age, and didn't need anyone else to tell me. It's just illogical. I debunked the Bible before I was ten mate, so don't talk to me about Ayatollahs.

I have no proof of the non-existence of extra-dimensional beings. What proof do you have that there are other dimensions? This thread is about the Bible being bullshit, so can we address Christianity after you're done bashing logic?
You can't talk about logic when you don't have any scientific proof of whether there is a higher dimension inhabited by Divine beings. It's got nothing to do with "being in the sky". You're perspective is very myopic, and if that wasn't so bad, you're arrogant with it too. You're an arrogant atheist.

titurel

09-12-2007, 06:09 AM

I was associating myself with him as he was an atheist. You can't admit that you made yourself look silly by quoting an atheist whilst bashing atheism, can you?

I have nothing in common with Goethe apart from the fact we saw through the Christian ruse. Me earlier in my life than him. His adolescence must have been horrible.
Unlike you, I recognise wisdom even if it's to be found in the serpent's nest that the insitituion of Freemasonry is... the movement behind modern science that often likes to preach that God is dead. The problem is, when man believes God is dead, he'll believe absolutely anything, hence a world falling into Babylonian fragmentation and corruption!

adimon

09-12-2007, 06:10 AM

You're perspective is very myopic, and if that wasn't so bad, you're arrogant with it too. You're an arrogant atheist.

Arrogant?

Like saying someone's perspective is myopic?

What have you got to say on the topic of the Bible then?

titurel

09-12-2007, 06:17 AM

Arrogant?

Like saying someone's perspective is myopic?

What have you got to say on the topic of the Bible then?
No other book reveals the nature of the conspiracy afflicting humanity as deftly as the Bible. Even David Icke acknowledges the Bible contains a lot of truth. In any event, people are entitled to their private beliefs. It's different with organised religious institutions because they all indirectly or directly affect our lives. It's against such institutions that you should het up about, rather than scoffing at peoples' personal beliefs because not everyone with personal beliefs gives up their energy to those institutions that we all don't like. It's a question of where you put your focus...

adimon

09-12-2007, 06:24 AM

No other book reveals the nature of the conspiracy afflicting humanity as deftly as the Bible.

Please describe how it does this. I would argue it blinds people to reality by offering them fairy tales about Methuselah living for 800years etc..

In any event, people are entitled to their private beliefs.

Of course. But IMO people would have worked out the truth behind the God fallacy by now if the Church hadn't been ramming these private beliefs down the throats of stupid, impressionable people.

It's different with organised religious institutions because they all indirectly or directly affect our lives. It's against such institutions that you should het up about

Oh I do. But you support them, whether you think so or not. So I'm having a debateof sorts with you as well.

rather than scoffing at peoples' personal beliefs because not everyone with personal beliefs gives up their energy to those institutions that we all don't like. It's a question of where you put your focus...

So what do you do to fight/address organised religion?

lifeofbrian

09-12-2007, 06:27 AM

You won't find this in the Bible:

http://www.keylonticdictionary.org/Graphics/Stair%20Step%20Creation.htm

titurel

09-12-2007, 06:33 AM

Please describe how it does this. I would argue it blinds people to reality by offering them fairy tales about Methuselah living for 800years etc..
The reason you gave is why you can't see the wood for the trees.

Of course. But IMO people would have worked out the truth behind the God fallacy by now if the Church hadn't been ramming these private beliefs down the throats of stupid, impressionable people.
Again, the problem lies with people who support the Church, not with people who simply hold personal views. The danger with becoming too dogmatic is that you perpetrate something that has repeated itself so often in history - inquisitions and persecutions. Our country is sliding towards fascism because people are beginning to loose their hopes and forget their dreams. The mind control is to create a hive mind... a collective mind in which all of humanity must believe one school of thought.

Oh I do. But you support them, whether you think so or not. So I'm having a debateof sorts with you as well.

So what do you do to fight/address organised religion?
The pen is mightier than the sword. The only way to deal with worldly corruption and institutions such as the Churches of Christendom, is to expose them.

titurel

09-12-2007, 06:34 AM

You won't find this in the Bible:

http://www.keylonticdictionary.org/Graphics/Stair%20Step%20Creation.htm
Wisdom has nothing to with garish colours and flashy charts!

adimon

09-12-2007, 06:37 AM

You won't find this in the Bible:

http://www.keylonticdictionary.org/Graphics/Stair%20Step%20Creation.htm

Can you explain to me what this is about? It doesn't make any sense at all.

The reason you gave is why you can't see the wood for the trees.

Easy for you to say. Maybe you can expand on your slur? Or answer the original question?

Our country is sliding towards fascism because people are beginning to loose their hopes and forget their dreams. The mind control is to create a hive mind... a collective mind in which all of humanity must believe one school of thought.

I think you've just defined faith.

The pen is mightier than the sword. The only way to deal with worldly corruption and institutions such as the Churches of Christendom, is to expose them.

Absolutely. As Dawkins does.

horseonwheels

09-12-2007, 06:43 AM

http://www.keylonticdictionary.org/G...20Creation.htm

thats mumbojumbo if i ever saw it

titurel

09-12-2007, 06:45 AM

Easy for you to say. Maybe you can expand on your slur? Or answer the original question?
Yes, you look at apparent problems and you turn them into stumbling blocks as an excuse to rubbish what after all you can't disprove! Were you around 1000's of years ago to prove that everything was as it is now?

I think you've just defined faith.
There's nothing wrong with faith. Atheism can be a faith because it's not based on proof.

Absolutely. As Dawkins does.
I've never heard Dawkins expose Freemasonry...

snoopsnuffleopagus

09-12-2007, 06:46 AM

You won't find this in the Bible:

http://www.keylonticdictionary.org/Graphics/Stair%20Step%20Creation.htm

Cordial Felicitations Life of Brian:

Actually, the entirety of the Book of Yahweh(bible) addresses this issue enpointe.

Note: the words: El; El-ohim; god(s)

These are the Hinder Beings in opposition to Yahweh.

The whole world worships(serves) gods (elohim), wittingly or unwittingly.

This is the deception spoken of in Revelation 12:9

12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. She was cast out into the Earth, and her angels were cast out with her.

This occured before Humans were created. The reason behind Satans deception is to steal worship(service) from Yahweh.

Satan created the Positions of: El; El-0him (god, gods)

The nature of being deceived is: unawareness

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

adimon

09-12-2007, 06:51 AM

No other book reveals the nature of the conspiracy afflicting humanity as deftly as the Bible.

How does the Bible do this?

Yes, you look at apparent problems and you turn them into stumbling blocks as an excuse to rubbish what after all you can't disprove! Were you around 1000's of years ago to prove that everything was as it is now?

I look at the claims of the Bible and realise they are silly...and plain wrong. First of all, the Bible indicates that the world is only a few thousand years old. We know is not true, so straight off the bat we have a lie, not a stumbling block. I can disprove this lie. I don't need to rubbish anything. You know this, that's why you try to rubbish atheism, which makes no outrageous claims about the world.

There's nothing wrong with faith. Atheism can be a faith because it's not based on proof.

The Bible says Earth was created 4004BC. Atheism has proven this wrong. Sorry.

I've never heard Dawkins expose Freemasonry...

If more people realise that Churches and organised religion are all liars then they will no longer have any power. The same will happen to them as happened to all dead religions. Look what happened to Captain Cook. This will soon happen to Christianity.

lifeofbrian

09-12-2007, 06:53 AM

Cordial Felicitations Life of Brian:

Actually, the entirety of the Book of Yahweh(bible) addresses this issue enpointe.

Note: the words: El; El-ohim; god(s)

These are the Hinder Beings in opposition to Yahweh.

The whole world worships(serves) gods (elohim), wittingly or unwittingly.

This is the deception spoken of in Revelation 12:9

12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. She was cast out into the Earth, and her angels were cast out with her.

This occured before Humans were created. The reason behind Satans deception is to steal worship(service) from Yahweh.

Satan created the Positions of: El; El-0him (god, gods)

The nature of being deceived is: unawareness

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

Hello Snoopster. Nah, what I ment was people won't find anything straightforward like a chart in the Bible.

I know it's a two-or-multiple-faced mess and deception is the name of the game. Tell me about it.

Cheers for your input Snoopster.

titurel

09-12-2007, 06:59 AM

How does the Bible do this?
It takes time and patience to understand. The trouble in these dumbed down times is that people only want the packaged take-away service off the shelf items of belief.

I look at the claims of the Bible and realise they are silly...and plain wrong. First of all, the Bible indicates that the world is only a few thousand years old. We know is not true, so straight off the bat we have a lie, not a stumbling block. I can disprove this lie. I don't need to rubbish anything. You know this, that's why you try to rubbish atheism, which makes no outrageous claims about the world.

The Bible says Earth was created 4004BC. Atheism has proven this wrong. Sorry.
I also look at the silly claims of atheism. First of all, if one accepts the creation story as being symbolic, then there's no need to come to the obvious conclusion that the earth is not only a few 1000 years old. Atheism hasn't proven anything.

If more people realise that Churches and organised religion are all liars then they will no longer have any power.
Well said! That's why I said they must be exposed!

The same will happen to them as happened to all dead religions. Look what happened to Captain Cook. This will soon happen to Christianity.
All organised religion is going into the funel of disintegration because God didn't want organised religion in the first place! The religion of money is also going to go on the funeral pyre.

snoopsnuffleopagus

09-12-2007, 07:08 AM

Cheers! to you also Life of Brian.

Always a pleasure.

adimon

09-12-2007, 07:10 AM

It takes time and patience to understand. The trouble in these dumbed down times is that people only want the packaged take-away service off the shelf items of belief.

You've avoided the question again. Maybe in this dumbed-down thread you want to avoid a simple question. Please give me a couple of examples of how the Bible does what you claim it does. :)

I also look at the silly claims of atheism. First of all, if one accepts the creation story as being symbolic, then there's no need to come to the obvious conclusion that the earth is not only a few 1000 years old. Atheism hasn't proven anything.

Oh yeah symbolic, that old chestnut. That ole Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free-Card. OK. What is the Bibles view that homosexuality should be punishable by death symbolic of? :mad:

All organised religion is going into the funel of disintegration because God didn't want organised religion in the first place! The religion of money is also going to go on the funeral pyre.

Oh, so not only do you know he exists (but can't prove it), but you know what he wants/wanted too! Can you offer me a logical explanation of how you know what God wanted? How many times in the Bible does God speak? And to whom?

Money is a religion now is it? Oh ok. So you're happy to be atheistic towards your money and give it all to me, since it's worthless? :D

titurel

09-12-2007, 07:17 AM

You've avoided the question again. Maybe in this dumbed-down thread you want to avoid a simple question. Please give me a couple of examples of how the Bible does what you claim it does.
I've already explained that you can't gain understanding in one night. You want "take away, fast food" answers but there are none of that variety.

Oh yeah symbolic, that old chestnut. That ole Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free-Card. OK.
Is that the best you can do? LOL!

What is the Bibles view that homosexuality should be punishable by death symbolic of?
Even the homosexuality issue you raise is your misunderstanding of the Bible.

Oh, so not only do you know he exists (but can't prove it), but you know what he wants/wanted too! Can you offer me a logical explanation of how you know what God wanted? How many times in the Bible does God speak? And to whom?
I fully accept there is no proof either way, which is why I always say, time will tell!

Money is a religion now is it? Oh ok. So you're happy to be atheistic towards your money and give it all to me, since it's worthless?
The religion of the love of money. Yes, and the Oxford English Dictionary does say that money can be described as a religion too!

adimon

09-12-2007, 07:42 AM

I've already explained that you can't gain understanding in one night. You want "take away, fast food" answers but there are none of that variety.

No I want you to answer my question. You made a bold statement that no other text describes the elite issue better than the Bible. I've asked for a couple of examples. You have refused three times to supply them. I smell bullshit. :)

Even the homosexuality issue you raise is your misunderstanding of the Bible.

Really? Lets let the forum make their own minds up about that, eh?

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Isaiah 3:9 they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

I fully accept there is no proof either way, which is why I always say, time will tell!

But you claimed to know what God wanted/wants. How did you decide upon this? You say you don't know either way, but you will speak on behalf of that uncertainty. I don't understand.

The religion of the love of money. Yes, and the Oxford English Dictionary does say that money can be described as a religion too!

So are you going to give me your money then? :)

snoopsnuffleopagus

09-12-2007, 07:52 AM

Cordial Felicitations Adimon & Titurel:

Pardon my intrusion, I may have some pertinent information regarding Adimons query asto the 6,000 year question.

The ages cited at Begettings and Deaths establish an important Timeline through the Bible, resulting in 6,000 years since Adam.

The first five verses of Genesis tell much more than the paucity of the word count would suggest.

BERESHITH-In The Beginning

1:1 In the beginning Yahweh created the heavens and the earth. (no precise Date given)

1:2 Now the earth became- Time Passed-without form and empty; (a Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, by Julian Furst; pg.1460, defines this phrase as: Chaos, a vain & worthless thing, full of godworship(the worship of elohim); and darkness was upon the face of the deep(Hebrew&Chaldee Lexicon pg.501 defines: to be led astray by false doctrine) ( Strongs Concordance word:#2822 defines as: misery, death, destruction, ignorance, wickedness & sorrow). And the Spirit of Yahweh was hovering over the face of the waters.

1:3 And Yahweh said: Let there be light; and there was light. (throughout scripture, The Codex of Law, the Torah is referred to as: Light)

This is the beginning of the Seven Days enumerated. Adam created on the Sixth, thus beginning the 6,000 year Timeline.

Between Verse 1:1 and Verse 1:3 How many years? Alot of activity is noted by usage of words:became without form and empty, & Darkness.

As for the Penalty of Death by Lapidation for Homosexuals and other offences, the Laws & Penalty remain in effect. This is due to Health, Safety & Welfare of Humankind.

As Yahshua informed us: 'Let he who is without sin (Transgression of any of Yahwehs 613 Laws, Judgements & Statutes) cast the first stone'.

That removes authority from all humans to exact the Penalty.

Prior to Messiah, the Penalties were observed to advance Father Yahwehs plan and preserve the Bloodline Yahshua would be produced from.

Adimon, Titurel, stop by the Book of Yahweh Thread anytime.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

titurel

09-12-2007, 07:57 AM

No I want you to answer my question. You made a bold statement that no other text describes the elite issue better than the Bible. I've asked for a couple of examples. You have refused three times to supply them. I smell bullshit.
Okay, if you want to open out the debate... the Bible gives a comprehensive account of why we have a Reptilian NWO agenda, where it came from and where it's heading, and what will replace it. Science offers nothing in respect to answering where humanity came from, what is life and where it's heading.

Really? Lets let the forum make their own minds up about that, eh?
That's fine by me!

But you claimed to know what God wanted/wants. How did you decide upon this? You say you don't know either way, but you will speak on behalf of that uncertainty. I don't understand.

You have to use intution. That's how I can decide the issue. You come to your conclusion based on intellect alone which is only limited to the earthbound senses.

So are you going to give me your money then? :)
I've never said money isn't necessary because unfortunately, we're not given any choice if we want to be ruled by the monetary system created by the Brotherhood who follow luicfer. So no you can't have my money, but that doesn't mean to say I can't see through the religion of the love money. It's a sham, just like the Churches.

titurel

09-12-2007, 08:01 AM

Really? Lets let the forum make their own minds up about that, eh?
The Levitical laws that outlawed homosexuality, were overturned by Christ when he threw out the Old Covenant and created the new. Jesus Christ himself said nothing against homosexuality, which is most significant.
Paul's statement in Romans 1:18-32 has been taken as the strongest New Testament rejection of homosexuality. He is concerned about the influence of the pagan culture on the Roman Christians. After giving a detailed description of a world that "exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator" he continues, "Therefore, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lusts for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty of their perversion."
What Paul was referring to was homosexual temple prostitution which was performed by various cults (though far more cults used heterosexual prostitution). Again, Paul is not referring to same-sex love, and he clearly has no concept of persons for whom this lifestyle is "natural."
Paul's other reference to homosexual acts is similar to that of 1 Timothy 1:8-11. Both passages contain lists of persons to be excluded from the Realm of God. The interpretation of these passages depends on two Greek words which have always presented a problem for translators. In the King James Version, they are translated "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind." In the Revised Standard Version, they were combined and rendered homosexuals; however, these are not the Greek words for homosexual, so that translations reflects the scholars' bias. The New International Version illustrates the difference in these two words by translating them "male prostitute" and "homosexual offenders". The Jerusalem Bible uses the terms "catamites and "sodomites". Catamites were youth kept especially for sexual purpose; they were usually paid large sums of money. Neither passage refers to persons of same-sex orientation, but to people who used their sexuality for personal gain.

Sodom and Gomorrah

A chief text for condemnation of homosexuality has been the Sodom story. This story has often been interpreted as showing God's abhorrence of homosexuality. In the story, two angels in the form of men were sent to Sodom to the home of Lot. While they were there, all the men of the city, "both young and old, surrounded the house --everyone without exception," and demanded that the visitors be brought out, "so that we might know them" (verse 5). Lot begged the men to leave his guests alone and take his daughters instead. The men of the city became angry and stormed the door. As a result, they were all struck blind by the angels.
There are several problems with the traditional interpretation of this passage. Whether or not the intent of the men of Sodom was sexual, the inhospitality and injustice coming from the mob and generally characterizing the community were "the sin of Sodom". Jesus himself refers to the inhospitality of Sodom. If, indeed, the men were homosexuals, then why would Lot offer them his daughters? What is threatened here is rape. The significant point then is that all rape is considered horrible by God. The story deserves another reading by all of us.

It should be noted that all of the men of Sodom could not have been homosexual or there would have been no need to destroy them since they would have all died off with no heirs. Quite likely they were a mixed group of evil men attempting to be abusive to people who were different. Ironically, lesbian and gay people are often the victim of that sin.

Here's what the Sodom and Gomorah account in Genesis actually says:
"Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom-both young and old-surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof." "Get out of our way," they replied. And they said, "This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We'll treat you worse than them." They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door." - Genesis 19:4-9

So, the men of Soddom were intent in forcibly having sex with the two angels. How on earth can that NOT be classified as attempted rape? The men of Soddom were despicable and that's why they were destroyed. No where does it say they were destroyed just because they were gay.

adimon

09-12-2007, 08:02 AM

Pardon my intrusion, I may have some pertinent information regarding Adimons query asto the 6,000 year question.

You don't have to pardon yourself, and it's no intrusion. I'm sure the heathen and the godsquadder can make room for a Messianic Jew. :)

This is the beginning of the Seven Days enumerated. Adam created on the Sixth, thus beginning the 6,000 year Timeline.

Between Verse 1:1 and Verse 1:3 How many years? Alot of activity is noted by usage of words:became without form and empty, & Darkness.

Point is the earth was created 6000yrs and 4 days ago according to the Bible, but we know it is a lot older, DON'T WE? Can we be adult and agree on that please?

As for the Penalty of Death by Lapidation for Homosexuals and other offences, the Laws & Penalty remain in effect. This is due to Health, Safety & Welfare of Humankind.

As Yahshua informed us: 'Let he who is without sin (Transgression of any of Yahwehs 613 Laws, Judgements & Statutes) cast the first stone'.

That removes authority from all humans to exact the Penalty.

So what you're saying is no human has any right to penalise gays, but God will send them to hell, right? :confused:

Adimon, Titurel, stop by the Book of Yahweh Thread anytime.

I have done a couple of times. Depends how bored I am TBH.

Hope NYC is treating you well Snoops, and the weather is better than Ceredigion. Fucking awful here mate I tell ya! :mad:

titurel

09-12-2007, 08:14 AM

You don't have to pardon yourself, and it's no intrusion. I'm sure the heathen and the godsquadder can make room for a Messianic Jew.
In my experience there are many atheists who are far more obnoxious than many who call themselves Christians, and vice versa. You see things in very black and white terms but as you grow older, you'll find life is much more complex! :rolleyes:

Point is the earth was created 6000yrs and 4 days ago according to the Bible, but we know it is a lot older, DON'T WE? Can we be adult and agree on that please?
The creation account is written in symbolic language. Therefore, it's inaccurate to say the Bible says the earth was created 6000 years ago.

So what you're saying is no human has any right to penalise gays, but God will send them to hell, right?
As I've explained, there are a lot of misconceptions about what the Bible actually says about homosexualty.[/quote]

adimon

09-12-2007, 08:23 AM

You see things in very black and white terms but as you grow older, you'll find life is much more complex!

Thanks Dad. I so need patronising to keep me in check. How old are you now Dad?

The creation account is written in symbolic language. Therefore, it's inaccurate to say the Bible says the earth was created 6000 years ago.

*cough* Bullshit.

Using that logic, the Bible can be interpreted anyway one pleases. So what's the point? What's the point you're making?

Turn the other cheek.

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3046523/2/istockphoto_3046523_girl_s_buttocks_and_fresh_juic y_strawberry.jpg

As I've explained, there are a lot of misconceptions about what the Bible actually says about homosexualty.

Well, in which case please explain to me how the passages I have listed do not appear to prohibit gay sex or love.

titurel

09-12-2007, 08:28 AM

Thanks Dad. I so need patronising to keep me in check. How old are you now Dad?

*cough* Bullshit.
The fact is, the world is a more complex place than you imagine. Like I said, there are as many obnoxious atheists as there are obnoxious so-called Christians!

Using that logic, the Bible can be interpreted anyway one pleases. So what's the point? What's the point you're making?
The point is discussion and recognising that there are different views and takes on different aspects of life. Even atheists are divided amongst themselves on this or that theory!

Turn the other cheek.

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3046523/2/istockphoto_3046523_girl_s_buttocks_and_fresh_juic y_strawberry.jpg
But that shouldn't stop debate and discussion....

Well, in which case please explain to me how the passages I have listed do not appear to prohibit gay sex or love.
See a few posts above....

snoopsnuffleopagus

09-12-2007, 08:30 AM

You don't have to pardon yourself, and it's no intrusion. I'm sure the heathen and the godsquadder can make room for a Messianic Jew. :)

SS: Thats Messianic Yahwist! lol!

Point is the earth was created 6000yrs and 4 days ago according to the Bible, but we know it is a lot older, DON'T WE? Can we be adult and agree on that please?

ss: The bible does'nt say that the earth is 6,000 years old. Time elapses between: 1:1 and 1:3. The Earth is _?___ years old. Fill in the blank. Billions of Years. Satan & her minions first arrived on earth after the rebellion, long before Adam & Eve. The creation of Adam begins the 6,000 year Timeline.

So the Earth was here many years before Adam, with many races & Species. They are mentioned: Giants, Nephelim, others.

They are also on many other planets, and so are Yahwehs Loyalist Malakim.

It is a busy universe. All part of Yahwehs plan.

So what you're saying is no human has any right to penalise gays, but God will send them to hell, right? :confused:

Adimon, this is why there are Two Ressurections.

The First Ressurection for those who received Proper Training in Yahwehs Laws, and the Second Ressurection for those who have not. At that Time proper training will be provided.

Many Homosexuals are paying the penalty in their own bodies at this time.

The Hell business is overblown, too much sensationalism. The Predators who have harmed children and the weak and defenseless have the most to be concerned about.

In essence: after proper training, you will receive a choice based upon your freewill.

I have done a couple of times. Depends how bored I am TBH.

SS: Don't Sugarcoat it, tell me what you really think. :D

Ask a question anytime. My 2 Dimensional Cyberbeef with Optimus Pigpot; King of the Pigpotabots, was not that he dis-agreed, but the manner it was presented.

For me, this engagement in the Forum, is like conversation with a guest at my kitchen table. Even my friends and family must observe certain protocols.

I would have delivered a Back of the Hand, not a closed fist.

Hope NYC is treating you well Snoops, and the weather is better than Ceredigion. Fucking awful here mate I tell ya! :mad:

Cold, Bitter Cold! Goin south next month, New York South (florida).

Be back April.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

adimon

09-12-2007, 08:55 AM

My apologies Titurel, I missed these posts of yours.

Okay, if you want to open out the debate... the Bible gives a comprehensive account of why we have a Reptilian NWO agenda, where it came from and where it's heading, and what will replace it.

Can you indicate passages for me so I can look into this please?

You have to use intution. That's how I can decide the issue. You come to your conclusion based on intellect alone which is only limited to the earthbound senses.

No I involve my intuition also. Our intuitions obviously tell us different things, so we'll have to agree to disagree once more. Until the next time.

I've never said money isn't necessary because unfortunately, we're not given any choice if we want to be ruled by the monetary system created by the Brotherhood who follow luicfer.

Wrong I'm afraid. There are many ways of living without money. My sister left behind her material life a couple of years ago and now lives in Africa living subsistently.

The Levitical laws that outlawed homosexuality, were overturned by Christ when he threw out the Old Covenant and created the new. Jesus Christ himself said nothing against homosexuality, which is most significant.
Paul's statement in Romans 1:18-32 has been taken as the strongest New Testament rejection of homosexuality. He is concerned about the influence of the pagan culture on the Roman Christians. After giving a detailed description of a world that "exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator" he continues, "Therefore, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lusts for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty of their perversion."
What Paul was referring to was homosexual temple prostitution which was performed by various cults (though far more cults used heterosexual prostitution). Again, Paul is not referring to same-sex love, and he clearly has no concept of persons for whom this lifestyle is "natural."
Paul's other reference to homosexual acts is similar to that of 1 Timothy 1:8-11. Both passages contain lists of persons to be excluded from the Realm of God. The interpretation of these passages depends on two Greek words which have always presented a problem for translators. In the King James Version, they are translated "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind." In the Revised Standard Version, they were combined and rendered homosexuals; however, these are not the Greek words for homosexual, so that translations reflects the scholars' bias. The New International Version illustrates the difference in these two words by translating them "male prostitute" and "homosexual offenders". The Jerusalem Bible uses the terms "catamites and "sodomites". Catamites were youth kept especially for sexual purpose; they were usually paid large sums of money. Neither passage refers to persons of same-sex orientation, but to people who used their sexuality for personal gain.

While I'm not denying that historiographical analysis of older versions of the Bible has possibly taken place, I personally interpret these passages to mean homosexuals. I also think there is nothing wrong with prostitution either, but I've gone into that LOADS on another thread.

The fact is, the world is a more complex place than you imagine. Like I said, there are as many obnoxious atheists as there are obnoxious so-called Christians!

And?

So you're not even bothered that you patronised me without knowing my age? I asked how old you were - are you going to tell me?

Cold, Bitter Cold! Goin south next month, New York South (florida).

Be back April.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

Don't blame ya Snoops. Say hello to the Everglades for me. :)

titurel

09-12-2007, 09:08 AM

Can you indicate passages for me so I can look into this please?
This is such a big subject! Let's start with this, for example... One of the signs we were given to look for, for the end of the world's Luciferian civilisation, was contained in the prophecy of Isaiah, in which he said the world would reel to and fro like a drunkard:

"The earth will reel to and fro like a drunkard, And it will totter like a shack." - Isaiah 24:17-23; 25:1

The poignant thing about this prophecy and why it must point toward our times is that never before has the world been in a position to reel to and fro like drunkard! It's only with the advent, for example, of the global media that we could literally see the world reeling to and fro like a drunkard. It really began to loose its balance after the event of what happened in 2001, when the twin towers came crumbling down, which can also be viewed as a symbolic event in its own right. Now we have a peculiar form of global terrorism and grave unrest in the Middle East, which appears to be the hub of it all. The global economy could also potentially invoke feelings of a queasy stomach, if it were to start reeling to and fro. The global war on terror, unsettled global money markets, global communications and global terrestrial and satellite television networks are all factors that go toward creating the global reality of a world that could really start reeling to and fro. Only a global matrix can rock and roll, and yet, until a century or so ago, there was no such global reality. Therefore, Isaiah's prophecy could then not apply. Only in this period can it be properly applied. This period may culminate like a woman in the pangs of giving birth, and it may be like a global thunder and lightening storm, as we receive one sleaze and corruption story after another, ever greater. But, after the storm comes the Sun and a new dawn!

No I involve my intuition also. Our intuitions obviously tell us different things, so we'll have to agree to disagree once more. Until the next time.
Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree!

Wrong I'm afraid. There are many ways of living without money. My sister left behind her material life a couple of years ago and now lives in Africa living subsistently.
I don't want to live in Africa, but that doesn't mean I have to love the flawed capitalist system. It's doomed anyway, so I'm very happy to witness its rapidly progressing demise.

While I'm not denying that historiographical analysis of older versions of the Bible has possibly taken place, I personally interpret these passages to mean homosexuals. I also think there is nothing wrong with prostitution either, but I've gone into that LOADS on another thread.
The word "Homosexual" does not appear in translations of the Bible until 1946. There was no word for homosexual in Greek. The original Greek word used is more accurately translated as a male temple prostitute. If you think male temple prostitution is good that's up to you.

So you're not even bothered that you patronised me without knowing my age? I asked how old you were - are you going to tell me?
I'm in my mid 40's, but that's not sidetracking the point I raised that there are obnoxious so-called Christians, just as there are obnoxious atheists.

adimon

09-12-2007, 09:27 AM

Only a global matrix can rock and roll, and yet, until a century or so ago, there was no such global reality. Therefore, Isaiah's prophecy could then not apply. Only in this period can it be properly applied. This period may culminate like a woman in the pangs of giving birth, and it may be like a global thunder and lightening storm, as we receive one sleaze and corruption story after another, ever greater. But, after the storm comes the Sun and a new dawn!

I think you're starting with what we have now, and finding a passage that you think fits. I wouldn't even agree that the passage fits. I think there are a great many works which directly describe the world we have now, and explain it, without analogy or metaphor or reeling drunks.

I don't want to live in Africa, but that doesn't mean I have to love the flawed capitalist system. It's doomed anyway, so I'm very happy to witness its rapidly progressing demise.

The point I was making is if you think money is evil you should not use it.

Why do you think capitalism is flawed?

Why do you think it is doomed?

The word "Homosexual" does not appear in translations of the Bible until 1946. There was no word for homosexual in Greek. The original Greek word used is more accurately translated as a male temple prostitute. If you think male temple prostitution is good that's up to you.

Nothing wrong with prostitution. If males were being picked up by other males at temples back then, there must have been a reason for it. Not my bag, but who am I to prescribe behaviour for others?

I raised that there are obnoxious so-called Christians, just as there are obnoxious atheists.

To me, nothing is more obnoxious than stupidity. Which, sadly is universal, which means I agree with your above statement. :)

megafish33

09-12-2007, 09:40 AM

Adimon: Check out some of the info at http://www.meru.org/ . You are, clearly, reading it the wrong way, as are billions of people. IMHO most of us shouldn't even be looking into the bible... it's old, most translations are bullshit, as a rabbi(who knows ancient Greek and Latin as well) once showed me, and we have schools of thought that are much more practical for our day.

snoopsnuffleopagus: Please explain to me how you're not a Christian? ;) j/k :p Happy Hanukkah!

titurel: It's really a topic for another thread and another time but I'm curious as to why "the capitalist system" as flawed. Is it "the" system you are referring to, or capitalism itself? The more I'm learning about true capitalism, which we haven't had in a while-or so some say, the more I am in agreement with it. I think it's execution is, and will always be, somewhat flawed, if that's what you're referring it.

Religion and holy books have always fascinated me, and I try to fit in some research of them when I can, but seriously guys.... Can we be sure any of it is true? Noah's Flood, even if taken place locally, sounds highly improbable. That's just one example... The other stories? No... I'm sure there may be many truths in it, but they were all written during a time when much of the groundbreaking scientific discoveries weren't even a thought. Evolution is one of them. I know some scientific researchers present it as dry and cold, and I know the theory itself has some holes... but guys, in the bigger picture it just makes sense, and has in fact, been proven. Evolution is something I was looking for in the ancient holy books, but I never found it. Not out in the open anyway... even Eastern texts conceal it. Maybe I missed something. For those of you that are interested in evolution and don't know much about it, or have just a vague idea, and also like a story to go with it, I can recommend the book Evolution: The Triumph of an Idea by Carl Zimmer.

titurel

09-12-2007, 09:46 AM

I think you're starting with what we have now, and finding a passage that you think fits. I wouldn't even agree that the passage fits. I think there are a great many works which directly describe the world we have now, and explain it, without analogy or metaphor or reeling drunks
You haven't explained why you don't think it fits. You're just asserting what you think is so, but the fact is, we're living in unique and unprecedented times. Never before in the history of civilisation has so much knowledge been revealed in such a short period of time. We're living in the foretold Apocalypse. Never before in the history of civilisation has there ever been a global reality governed by global capitalism. We're living at the much prophesied about culmination of the Luciferian NWO agenda and that's why the world is beginning to reel to and fro like a drunkard, which is an excellent analogy.

The point I was making is if you think money is evil you should not use it.
It's not money that is evil... money is simply an object. It's the love of money that's evil when it manifests as greed and corruption.

Why do you think capitalism is flawed?
Capitalism was originally part of the Babylonian religious system because in ancient times, there was no separation between fiscal policy and religion as there appears to be today but that's all part of the lie the mainstream media feeds the masses. As David Icke will also tell you, capitalism is an occult religion whose chief purpose it is to control the masses, to make them love their servitude.

Why do you think it is doomed?
Because anything that's built on lies is doomed to failure. Our money is actually worthless because of all the debt that exists. It's monopoly money that's controlled by the bankers.. by the Rothschild and Rockerfellas of this world, not to mention the black mobility. There is a big financial crash and melt down coming. That's when the chickens come home to roost and people will wake up enslaved to the elite because of all their savings will be worthless and they'll owe a lot of debt. The FED is a con. All fiat money is a con perpetrated by crooks.

Nothing wrong with prostitution. If males were being picked up by other males at temples back then, there must have been a reason for it. Not my bag, but who am I to prescribe behaviour for others?
But it wasn't just prostitution, it was temple prostitution. Sex was part and parcel of rituals to the Pagan gods.

To me, nothing is more obnoxious than stupidity. Which, sadly is universal, which means I agree with your above statement. :)
Which is why I highlighted that you find stupid people in all walks of life with all kinds of beliefs.

adimon

09-12-2007, 09:55 AM

Adimon: Check out some of the info at http://www.meru.org/ . You are, clearly, reading it the wrong way, as are billions of people. IMHO most of us shouldn't even be looking into the bible... it's old, most translations are bullshit, as a rabbi(who knows ancient Greek and Latin as well) once showed me, and we have schools of thought that are much more practical for our day.

To be honest megafish I can't be bothered. The important thing is that Christians are mostly incredibly judgemental people, despite their messiah's pleas, and they would mostly advocate prohibition of a lot of liberties we now enjoy.

I don't get along with most Christians because they are so self-righteous.

"Why do Christians take everything so personally with Christ? You know? It's like not only do YOU have to worship him, you want everybody to. It's like, I like lobster. Do I go around pushing lobster on people? Do I say "You MUST like lobster"? "Eat lobster! It's good. It's good." You know, it's not only where you live; you go to Africa. You travel all over the world. "Eat lobster! Have some more lobster! It's good!" Larry David

Jews I generally find to be better company than gentiles, despite their religious beliefs. I have never once had a problem with Jews.

Atheists (e.g. people who have thought about religion and decided it is bullshit) are generally the sanest people IMO.

Btw, I include Larry David pretty high in my list of sane people. :D

The more I'm learning about true capitalism, which we haven't had in a while-or so some say, the more I am in agreement with it. I think it's execution is, and will always be, somewhat flawed, if that's what you're referring it.

I agree with the 1st part, not with the 2nd.

Religion and holy books have always fascinated me, and I try to fit in some thing. For those of you that are interested in evolution and don't know much about it, or have just a vague idea, and also like a story to go with it, I can recommend the book Evolution: The Triumph of an Idea by Carl Zimmer.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll trade you one in return.

"The Tragedy of Great Power Politics" by John J Mearsheimer. :)

snoopsnuffleopagus

09-12-2007, 09:58 AM

adimon

09-12-2007, 10:04 AM

You haven't explained why you don't think it fits.

Because for me the 'big picture' if you like is international politics. Since demographically the world reached a certain state, the situation has remained essentially the same from a realist point of view. Since the Treaty of Westphalia, the state model has been dominant, and I see nothing particularly special about this moment in history for you to attribute the reeling drunk metaphor to it, and not say 20 or 200 years ago.

You're just asserting what you think is so, but the fact is, we're living in unique and unprecedented times. Never before in the history of civilisation has so much knowledge been revealed in such a short period of time. We're living in the foretold Apocalypse. Never before in the history of civilisation has there ever been a global reality governed by global capitalism. We're living at the much prophesied about culmination of the Luciferian NWO agenda and that's why the world is beginning to reel to and fro like a drunkard, which is an excellent analogy.

Sorry I disagree. If my above thoughts don't help you to understand why, then PM me and I'll go into realism in more detail.

It's not money that is evil... money is simply an object. It's the love of money that's evil when it manifests as greed and corruption.

We agree.

There is a big financial crash and melt down coming.

If it happens, I'lll admit I'm wrong, and buy you a drink. Do you like vodka?

The FED is a con.

The FRB is not a con. The US government does appear to perpetrate a conon its people on the FRB's behalf though. The money is all very real though. I'm not denying the corruption, but I view it differently. The money is very real. To say it is monopoly money is to pretend.

megafish33

09-12-2007, 10:06 AM

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll trade you one in return.

"The Tragedy of Great Power Politics" by John J Mearsheimer. :)

I read it's descriptions on amazon.com and I'll be checking this one out soon! Thank you.

titurel

09-12-2007, 10:09 AM

To be honest megafish I can't be bothered. The important thing is that Christians are mostly incredibly judgemental people, despite their messiah's pleas, and they would mostly advocate prohibition of a lot of liberties we now enjoy.
Atheists can be judgemental too. You can't generalise and make sweeping generalisations about people. Tarring everyone of a type with the same brush reeks of prejudice and delusion because you get judgemental and obnoixious people in all walks of life.

I don't get along with most Christians because they are so self-righteous.
You also get self-righteous atheists!

Jews I generally find to be better company than gentiles, despite their religious beliefs. I have never once had a problem with Jews.
You have to look at people as indiviusals. There are some very obnoxious Jews too, unless you also embrace people like Rothschild...

Atheists (e.g. people who have thought about religion and decided it is bullshit) are generally the sanest people IMO.
Really? I come across a lot of loony atheists.[/quote]

titurel

09-12-2007, 10:14 AM

Because for me the 'big picture' if you like is international politics. Since demographically the world reached a certain state, the situation has remained essentially the same from a realist point of view. Since the Treaty of Westphalia, the state model has been dominant, and I see nothing particularly special about this moment in history for you to attribute the reeling drunk metaphor to it, and not say 20 or 200 years ago.
But never before in history has there been a global economy, a global mainstream mind controlled reality! Sure, these things have existed since the Industrial Revolution but that's from the start of the Apocalypse which is always described as an extended period of time culminating with the great awakening, which may or may not come in 2012, but it will come, as prophesied. The world economy is about to flip, and the world shall reel to and fro like a drunkard as never before as the illuminati shake up the world in order to re-order it for their NWO. It's already dramatically started to happen with the fall of the WTC towers on 9-11.

The money is very real. To say it is monopoly money is to pretend.
Money is not real.. de facto, money is fiat money...

snoopsnuffleopagus

09-12-2007, 10:22 AM

Cordial Felicitations Mega-Fish:

Actually started out Roman Catholic, a NON-MOLESTED Altar boy, memorized the Mass in Latin.

In my Teens, recognised the Hypocracy, around alot of Mafioso, like the Sopranos. I Spit the Bit.

Started checking out everything. Zen Buddism, Meditation, Tao Tse Ching, Toltec Shamanism, Eckankar, Church of Religious Science, Apostolic Christianity....etc.

About 9 years ago Messianic Yahwism crossed my grid, through Messianic Judaism.

I am not into the Talmud, Mishna I like; RASHI.

So Messianic Yahwism is Messianic Judaism without the Talmud, just the Torah.

Thus: No Hannukah, only the 7 High Holy Days & Weekly Sabbath.

The Book of Yahweh makes perfectly good sense to me.

I like the Verses that declare: Do not add, subtract, change in anyway.

And this Book is now done (Rev) do not add, subtract, or change.

There is much more consistency than it is credited with.

Stop by the Book of Yahweh Thread anytime.

Kind Regards & Shalom: Snoopsnuffleopagus

Last but not least: Rabbi Yahshua taught and endorsed the Old Testament.

He did not do away with the Laws. A major gripe about Messiah was He did not teach the Talmud, and He violated the prohibition of uttering: 'The Name'.

Old Testament prophecy is: Yahwehs Name would become great amongst the Gentiles. I perceive this to be happening, worldwide.

adimon

09-12-2007, 10:38 AM

Cordial Felicitations Adimon:

Without segregating 'Homosexuals' from the spectrum of Sexual Morality Laws of the Torah, I will offer the underlying 'Reason' for these Laws.

Preservation of Human Blood.

Human Blood: an interesting combination of Elements.

There are many Sexual Morality Laws covering all combinations of Partners including Animals.

Promiscuous Hetero-Sexual is Taboo also, as is Incest and Beastiality.

The Reason: Dis-eases are created and spread. This corrupts the Blood.

The dreaded: Cooties

Even as a conservative, I see no logical reason for regulation of sexual intercourse beside prohibition of rape, child abuse, and paedophilia, in thi modern age.

I read it's descriptions on amazon.com and I'll be checking this one out soon! Thank you.

No problem. Happy to trade titles anytime. Your local library is bound to have Mearsheimer. Many people think its one of the most important works of the period.

Atheists can be judgemental too. You can't generalise and make sweeping generalisations about people. Tarring everyone of a type with the same brush reeks of prejudice and delusion because you get judgemental and obnoixious people in all walks of life.

You don't have to defend Christians every time I share my opinion. You are perfectly within your rights to do so.

You also get self-righteous atheists!

By their definition, yes. But to me, sane, not delusional.

You have to look at people as indiviusals. There are some very obnoxious Jews too, unless you also embrace people like Rothschild...

I was talking about the 100-200 Jews I have met. I found them all to be good people. Which doesn't mean I don't think Mr. Olmert couldn't be doing more to help get the Roadmap up and running! :)

But never before in history has there been a global economy

Yes, globalisation has certainly occurred in relatively recent times, but I still don't personally equate that to a reeling drunk, sorry. Please stop trying to show me the strength of the metaphors you believe in. You won't convince me of the value of Bible with metaphors and Nostradamus-like prophecies.

If the Bible was of any value to me, it would have unambiguous references.

a global mainstream mind controlled reality!

Sorry, I don't agree. I think people should throw their TVs in the bin, but they are not mind-controlled.

Sure, these things have existed since the Industrial Revolution but that's from the start of the Apocalypse which is always described as an extended period of time culminating with the great awakening, which may or may not come in 2012, but it will come, as prophesied. The world economy is about to flip, and the world shall reel to and fro like a drunkard as never before as the illuminati shake up the world in order to re-order it for their NWO. It's already dramatically started to happen with the fall of the WTC towers on 9-11.

As I said, my big picture is international politics, and most of my peers view the end of the cold war as a bigger cataclysmic event than 9/11, or either of the world wars, for its effect on the NWO.

Old Testament prophecy is: Yahwehs Name would become great amongst the Gentiles. I perceive this to be happening, worldwide.

What makes you think this Snoop? :)

titurel

09-12-2007, 10:50 AM

You don't have to defend Christians every time I share my opinion. You are perfectly within your rights to do so.
I'm not defending Christians because I don't have any regard for organised religions because they are all wolves in sheep's clothing. This discussion is more about surveying the complexities of the issues.

By their definition, yes. But to me, sane, not delusional.
How can you call atheist murderers and rapists sane, for example? You seem to have this cute idea that all atheists are sane, but I've got news for you!

I was talking about the 100-200 Jews I have met. I found them all to be good people. Which doesn't mean I don't think Mr. Olmert couldn't be doing more to help get the Roadmap up and running!
There are good people in all walks of life. What's new?

Yes, globalisation has certainly occurred in relatively recent times, but I still don't personally equate that to a reeling drunk, sorry. Please stop trying to show me the strength of the metaphors you believe in. You won't convince me of the value of Bible with metaphors and Nostradamus-like prophecies.
Prophecies have already been fulfilled and more are being fulfilled, but if you want to turn a blind eye that's up to you! You certainly haven't convinced me that the earth is void of any super natural forces, especially when we have world governments ruled by secret societies...

If the Bible was of any value to me, it would have unambiguous references.
If you only feed a child "milk" food, it will never develop and mature! Sometimes, you have to exercise your mind if you want to get a grip on the more complex issues.

Sorry, I don't agree. I think people should throw their TVs in the bin, but they are not mind-controlled.
TV is one of the foremost mind control tools of the illuminati. It promotes common herd reality.

As I said, my big picture is international politics, and most of my peers view the end of the cold war as a bigger cataclysmic event than 9/11, or either of the world wars, for its effect on the NWO.
World leaders are creating chaos in the world in order to re-order the world to their liking (Ordo ab Chaos - Order out of chaos is the motto of Freemasonry). Tony Blair, in his speech at the Labour Party Conference 02/10/01, in the aftermath of the WTC attack, stated:

"This is a moment to seize. The kaleidoscope has been shaken, the pieces are in flux, soon they will settle again. Before they do let us reorder this world around us and use modern science to provide prosperity for all. Science can't make that choice for us, only the moral power of a world acting as a community can."

The quote was commented on by the Guardian, in a piece called "Let us reorder this world" (October 3, 2001):

"Tony Blair yesterday turned his battle against the terrorists who ravaged New York into a far wider struggle for a new world order that would uphold human dignity and social justice "from the slums of Gaza to the mountain ranges of Afghanistan."

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labour2001/story/0,1414,562269,00.html

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw

adimon

09-12-2007, 11:06 AM

I'm not defending Christians because I don't have any regard for organised religions because they are all wolves in sheep's clothing. This discussion is more about surveying the complexities of the issues.

Fair enough.

How can you call atheist murderers and rapists sane, for example? You seem to have this cute idea that all atheists are sane, but I've got news for you!

I never said they were all sane. But ignoring murderers and rapists who I believe to come from all demographics, of the non-murdering, non-raping population, I much prefer conversation with atheists. OK. I've said fair enough to your pro-complexity of issue debate, so lets leave this prong now ok? This topic is the Bible.

Prophecies have already been fulfilled and more are being fulfilled, but if you want to turn a blind eye that's up to you! You certainly haven't convinced me that the earth is void of any super natural forces, especially when we have world governments ruled by secret societies...

1. Prophecies have been fulfilled according to your interpretation of the text, and your belief in it.

2. I don't believe in the Bible, neither do I accept your metaphors as a fair description of real events. If it said,

Titurel, Chapter 3, Verse 13: A great nation will build a fortress of great power that will be known as a symbol for World Trade, and that nation's enemies will fly like a dragon of fire into the fortress..

then I could see your point. But I disagree.

If you only feed a child "milk" food, it will never develop and mature! Sometimes, you have to exercise your mind if you want to get a grip on the more complex issues.

Stop patronising me mate!

TV is one of the foremost mind control tools of the illuminati. It promotes common herd reality.

Mind influence is not the same as control.

I appreciate your Blair quotes etc, and your attempts to share with me your view of the NWO. It's not that I haven't done any research into it - I have, I just have a different opinion on the info you mention, that's all. For example, my interpretation of Blair's speeches is very different for starters.

Let's stick to the contradictions in the Bible mate.

adimon

09-12-2007, 11:08 AM

You certainly haven't convinced me that the earth is void of any super natural forces, especially when we have world governments ruled by secret societies...

Oh, and by the way, I don't set out to convince anyone. I was trying to debate Bible contradictions. OK, we got a bit tangential which I don't mind, but we really should get back on topic. If you want to continue a wider debate, I suggest you start a thread, which I would happily post on.

titurel

09-12-2007, 11:13 AM

I never said they were all sane. But ignoring murderers and rapists who I believe to come from all demographics, of the non-murdering, non-raping population, I much prefer conversation with atheists. OK. I've said fair enough to your pro-complexity of issue debate, so lets leave this prong now ok? This topic is the Bible.
I'm not interested in whether you find it easier to associate with atheists or not. The point I was making is that that there are good and bad people in all walks of life and you have to take values of a person on an individual basis.

1. Prophecies have been fulfilled according to your interpretation of the text, and your belief in it.

2. I don't believe in the Bible, neither do I accept your metaphors as a fair description of real events. If it said,

Titurel, Chapter 3, Verse 13: A great nation will build a fortress of great power that will be known as a symbol for World Trade, and that nation's enemies will fly like a dragon of fire into the fortress..

then I could see your point. But I disagree.
Then we'll just have to disagree and allow time to tell.

Stop patronising me mate!
Then don't make comments you won't ultimately defend!

Mind influence is not the same as control.
No it's actually control.

I appreciate your Blair quotes etc, and your attempts to share with me your view of the NWO. It's not that I haven't done any research into it - I have, I just have a different opinion on the info you mention, that's all. For example, my interpretation of Blair's speeches is very different for starters.

Let's stick to the contradictions in the Bible mate.
The Bible includes so many facets of discussion, but since you haven't explained what your interpretation of Blair's speech was, I can hardly be convinced by your absent argument!

titurel

09-12-2007, 11:16 AM

Oh, and by the way, I don't set out to convince anyone. I was trying to debate Bible contradictions. OK, we got a bit tangential which I don't mind, but we really should get back on topic. If you want to continue a wider debate, I suggest you start a thread, which I would happily post on.
But these are all issues you'll have to address sooner or later, if you want to reform...!

adimon

09-12-2007, 11:20 AM

since you haven't explained what your interpretation of Blair's speech was, I can hardly be convinced by your absent argument!

But these are all issues you'll have to address sooner or later, if you want to reform...!

I am happy to go into these things in detail on the appropriate thread. But this one is about contradictions in the Bible, geddit?

titurel

09-12-2007, 11:31 AM

I am happy to go into these things in detail on the appropriate thread. But this one is about contradictions in the Bible, geddit?
I can understand why you want to back off from certain issues, but so far, I've seen no contradictions of the Bible, only appearent ones, many of which have already been addressed!

adimon

09-12-2007, 12:03 PM

Contradictions IN the Bible, not OF it.

Here's just two for starters:-

TWO CONTRADICTORY ACCOUNTS OF CREATION

First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3)

Genesis 1:25-27
(Humans were created after the other animals.)

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.

Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)

Genesis 2:18-19
(Humans were created before the other animals.)

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3)

Genesis 1:27
(The first man and woman were created simultaneously.)

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)

Genesis 2:18-22
(The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.)

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

adimon

09-12-2007, 12:05 PM

I can understand why you want to back off from certain issues, but so far, I've seen no contradictions of the Bible, only appearent ones, many of which have already been addressed!

Back off? You're pushing it now mate! Keep this smug patronisation up and I will leave you it - to claim that hollow victory you crave so much. :mad:

titurel

09-12-2007, 12:13 PM

titurel

09-12-2007, 12:14 PM

Back off? You're pushing it now mate! Keep this smug patronisation up and I will leave you it - to claim that hollow victory you crave so much. :mad:
I'm only stating what I've observed. It seems you like to dish out the smugness but you don't like it when you get it back! ;)

adimon

09-12-2007, 12:24 PM

I can see an apparent contradiction in what you've posted above... it's an old copy and paste chestnut from an Internet Web page but there's no contradiction at all because Genesis chapter two is simply a recpaitation of a section of Genesis chapter one.

Good. You can see the contradiction. :)

Yes it was copied from a webpage. I don't have Bible PDFs coming out of my arse.

Yes it is a contradiction. You can't make all the animals, then man, then some animals to keep him company. Likewise the woman thing. :)

titurel

09-12-2007, 12:29 PM

Good. You can see the contradiction.
I said there was an apparent contradiction. Note the use of the word "apparaent". In other words, what appears to be a contradiction is not a contradiction at all, when one looks at the two texts closer.

Yes it was copied from a webpage. I don't have Bible PDFs coming out of my arse.
But such apparent contradictions are written by propagandists who rely on peoples' ignorance of the texts to get away with their unreliable claims.

Yes it is a contradiction. You can't make all the animals, then man, then some animals to keep him company. Likewise the woman thing.
As I said, chapter two is a recapitation of chapter one. There's no contradiction at all!

adimon

09-12-2007, 12:38 PM

Propagandists?

Explain to me how it ISN'T a contradiction to say that God created ALL the animals, then created humans, then later, created the animals so that man wouldn't be on his own.

titurel

09-12-2007, 12:45 PM

Propagandists?

Explain to me how it ISN'T a contradiction to say that God created ALL the animals, then created humans, then later, created the animals so that man wouldn't be on his own.
It's not a contradiction because none of the passages say that man was created before the animals...

Genesis 2:18-19
(Humans were created before the other animals.)

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

The above quote says God created the animals first... and it's a recapitualtion of Genesis 1:

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
There's no contradiction!

adimon

09-12-2007, 12:59 PM

titurel

09-12-2007, 01:05 PM

Genesis 1:25-27

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.

Animals first very clearly.
In the verse you quoted above from chapter one, God made animals first. Genesis 2:4, which you conveniently didn't quote, says:

"This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created. When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens."

In other words, the following verses, from verse 5 onwards, are a recapitation of some of the things God did that are described in chapter one. Nice try, but there's no contradiction!

adimon

09-12-2007, 01:15 PM

adimon

09-12-2007, 01:17 PM

God can do anything.

Genesis 18:14
Is any thing too hard for the LORD?

Job 42:1-2
Then Job answered the LORD, and said, I know that thou canst do every thing....

Jeremiah 32:17
Ah Lord God! ... there is nothing too hard for thee.

Jeremiah 32:27
Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for the Lord?;

Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27
With God all things are possible.

Luke 1:37
For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Luke 18:27
The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

Revelation 19:6
The Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

There are some things that God cannot do.

Judges 1:19
And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

Mark 6:5
And he could there do no mighty work.

Hebrews 6:18
It was impossible for God to lie.

john white

09-12-2007, 01:28 PM

Only 101 bible contradictions? Thats a low figure! But thats also besides the point. We have to understand what scripture is and how scripture comes into being

I wrote a short article about this a little while back....

The Bible (and all scripture) is "flawed".... ....because humans are "flawed"

What do I mean by this? Well consider ourselves. We live dependant on our one rock in space being just the right distance from our Sun, and on the existence of a six mile thick layer of gas. We cannot travel the vastness of the Universe, but must peer out and guess and wonder. We are finite: we cannot read every book ever written in a lifetime, or even remotely close, or travel to all places we could travel to. We cannot know everything, we cannot be everything: we are creatures of extreme limitation

We are born, knowing nothing, no language, no pattern, no thought: from our immediate surrounding we start to absorb input with which we construct our "inner world", the model through which we filter all input. What thoughts can a man have, without the construction bricks of concepts to construct them? In terms of development of mind, all humans are wildly different from one another and none is perfect, for the perfection of mind is impossible

And yet, we are connected by our feelings: we all can feel, and feel the same feelings. this is our common bond that unites us all together: whoever we have persuaded ourselves to think we are, or to think another is (atheist/ theist/ humanist/ christian/ muslim/ jew/ buddhist/ communist and all the rest) because of our interpretation of our immediate environment from birth to maturity, whatever bits of data exist within the storage of our brains, we all have human blood pumping through our human hearts: we all have human forms derived, in their diversity, from our common human heritage

For some of us, the mind is enough. Something makes sense, it makes sense, anything which we cannot make sense of, is therefore non-sense. If our inner model has reached its limits of what it can conceive, we do not say "our model is limited": instead we say "this data does not fit, it must be false". Yet for others, we understand that whilst our mind is limited, our feeling is not. What difference does distance make to feel the suffering of a child who has been harmed? What need of a feeling to be rationalised in order to be felt? The rationalisation only comes after the feeling, not before

Consider all of the above, and then consider scripture:

Let us imagine that in the vastness of the universe there is an order of intelligence far far vaster than our own, intelligence without limit, infinite intelligence, occupying all places simultaneously (which is a reasonably fair description of what the spiritually inclined consider "God" to be). Let us imagine one was that intelligence: how then could one communicate effectively with a being as limited and flawed as man? Could man, with his ability only to construct sense from what the pattern of thoughts he knows, immediately and comprehensively grasps what it is to be infinite intelligence? Clearly, the likely answer here is No

But man can feel: and this capacity to feel is what could connect man to the infinite intelligence around him. With this connection, man can feel what it is to be man from the POV of infinite intelligence. He can feel what it is to be awareness much larger than himself... and he can then use the contents of his mind to construct a mental model that defines, imperfectly, as that is the only way man can define, those infinite feelings stimulated by from infinite intelligence

That is what all scripture is: the imperfect translation of infinite feeling, filtered through the cultural and historical context of the individual so connected and inspired

And what feelings are they, that can be inspired by infinite intelligence? What does infinite intelligence feel?

Infinite empathy. Infinite compassion. Infinite Love

Of course, we can reject this. We can focus on the imperfect map of scripture, the product of imperfect man, and say "these words are cruel: this phrase is hurtful: this concept is ignorant": and all these things are true. But we are critiquing man and his failings: not the touch with infinity that so inspired him

All scripture is flawed. The profound beauty lies in the fact that any has been attempted to be written at all

Perhaps we cannot conceive that there is such a thing as infinite intelligence. Perhaps we live in such a way that there is only our own intelligence, and that is all there is. This seems to me to be the same as saying "So! You claim to have had a divine revelation standing on that hill! Right I'm going to go and stand there too: and if I don't have an identical replicable divine inspiration, I'm going to declare you a fraud!"

And perhaps that’s why one of the common translations of communion with infinite intelligence ("God") is:

"Forgive them: they know not what they do"

I'm planning to make a film on this very subject next year... slightly delayed by taking on this FA role

titurel

09-12-2007, 01:49 PM

On an ass and a colt.

Matthew 21:5-7
Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.

On a colt.

Mark 11:7
And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him.

Luke 19:35
And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.

On a young ass.

John 12:14
And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon.
According to the eyewitness Matthew, Jesus sat on the colt. This is in agreement with what Mark and Luke stated (who were not there at that time but have written the event on the account of the other disciples). Besides, the colt was too young to be separated from the mother (the Ass).
"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." Zechariah 9:9.This is not a contradiction.

adimon

09-12-2007, 01:51 PM

So he sat on two animals at the same time. An awkward form of transport.

titurel

09-12-2007, 01:52 PM

titurel

09-12-2007, 01:53 PM

So he sat on two animals at the same time. An awkward form of transport.
I don't see it written that he rode both at the same time... You'e so eager to find a contradiction, you see what isn't there! LOL!

adimon

09-12-2007, 01:55 PM

Yes.

Matthew 11:13-14
For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Matthew 17:12-13
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already.... then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Mark 9:13
But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

No

John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias [Elijah]? And he saith, I am not.

adimon

09-12-2007, 01:56 PM

These are mere plays on words! They aren't contradictions. May be there's a reason why God can't lie and why he wouldn't drive out the inhabitants of the valley. Have you thought of that?

"but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

It says 'could not' not 'would not' - it even says the reason.

titurel

09-12-2007, 01:57 PM

titurel

09-12-2007, 01:58 PM

"but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

It says 'could not' not 'would not' - it even says the reason.
Yes, it gives a reason but perhaps God had unstated reasons why he would not, which is just another way of saying could not?

cleft_asunder

09-12-2007, 08:37 PM

lifeofbrian

09-12-2007, 09:15 PM

So in other words, man cannot accurately represent enlightenment through scripture because enlightenment is something that needs to be experienced personally. And most of those who read scripture, read it as if it is philosophy, and it's certainly not that.

The mind cannot and will never be able to comprehend the infinite. You can only be the infinite, you cannot understand it through the mind. Once you try to grab onto the experience of enlightenment, (with the mind) you lose it.

Since we have labels for it, definitions, we are grasping it.

Picture this:

The energy that is now Earth was once just an individual. Same with the other planets. The Sun was once an individual.

This is how we expand in this universe; we 'earn' bigger bodies.

Since consciousness is so vague yet real, we had better start respecting the earth and other planets.

We are ants in comparison.

We have a long way to go. But at least we came this far, by still respecting Creation.

:)

john white

09-12-2007, 09:41 PM

Since we have labels for it, definitions, we are grasping it.

Picture this:

The energy that is now Earth was once just an individual. Same with the other planets. The Sun was once an individual.

This is how we expand in this universe; we 'earn' bigger bodies.

Since consciousness is so vague yet real, we had better start respecting the earth and other planets.

We are ants in comparison.

We have a long way to go. But at least we came this far, by still respecting Creation.

:)

Nice one

titurel

09-12-2007, 09:45 PM

So in other words, man cannot accurately represent enlightenment through scripture because enlightenment is something that needs to be experienced personally. And most of those who read scripture, read it as if it is philosophy, and it's certainly not that.

The mind cannot and will never be able to comprehend the infinite. You can only be the infinite, you cannot understand it through the mind. Once you try to grab onto the experience of enlightenment, (with the mind) you lose it.
Words are limited but some words are better at describing enlightenment than others. At the end of the day, it's what's in the heart that counts. Music is less bound by the intellect, but even then, music can have the potential to lead astray. Wherever man is led astray, it's his intellect that fails, which is why intuition is an important factor. The problem is, some people mistake feeling and imagination with intuition.

adimon

10-12-2007, 12:33 AM

Why does God kill so many people if he loves them all?

titurel

10-12-2007, 12:42 AM

Why does God kill so many people if he loves them all?
It's justice. God never does anything for no good reason and he's never stated he loves the wicked. Sometimes, civilsations and nations have to be shown tough love for their own good, but the people at Bohemian Grove, for example, and the clergy of the Roman Catholic Church, would not want to hear that for obvious reasons...

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-12-2007, 12:46 AM

Cordial Felicitation Adimon:

Yahweh owns all souls.

The First Death is not Permanent, the Second Death is.

Everything that happens is according to His plan.

Have you seen the Photographs of Babies deformed due to the effects of Depleted and Non-Depleted Uranium Munitions?

Humankind hit bottom awhile ago.

Humankind itself does most of the Killing.

One of the 'Lost Books' mentioned in the Book of Yahweh is: The Book of the Wars of Yahweh; this may have information about other Galaxies & Dimensions.

In the Old Testament, Yahweh slew 80,000 Philistines in one night.

Iron Fist ina Velvet Glove.

Yahshua is the Human embodiment of the Character of Yahweh.

Yahshua rarely opened up His can of 'Whip Ass', but He did a coupla times.

According to the Book of Yahweh: All who are Dead are Sleeping until the Two Ressurections, then you will be invited to Big Meetings, and Probably your Brain/Mind will be Downloaded of its Lifetime of Input, and Anaylised.

The Book is all about the Plan

Aloha!: Snoopsnuffleopagus

razed1

10-12-2007, 12:47 AM

razed1

10-12-2007, 12:49 AM

titurel

10-12-2007, 12:52 AM

why would 'god' allow his innocent creations adam and eve, to be exposed to the 'serpent' in the first place

and god said if they ate of the tree, that they would die in the day, but they did not die, not only that, adam and eve were enlightened to the knowledge of whats good and evil

so why would 'god' want to keep his creation in ignorance???

seems like the only one tellin the truth in that whole exchange was the 'serpent'

????
Because the race of Adam had free will. It's true that Adam and Eve literally didn't die on the same day as they ate the "fruit", but in that day that they did... they died in a spiritual sense. They also lost their immortality. The Serpent lied and deceived Eve, who has become the symbolic high priestess of the Kabbalah and of the Brotherhood...

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6897/mwglbcyseallglp3.jpg

Above: The Masonic Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon's official seal. Notice the seal is almost identical to Freemason Waite's High Priestess Tarot card. Interestingly, it's green. In "The Wizard of Oz", everything in the Emerald City, which is a metaphor for the NWO, is also green. Osiris is the Green man of the so-called Mysteries. Image Source (http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/grandlodge.html)

adimon

10-12-2007, 12:55 AM

It's justice. God never does anything for no good reason and he's never stated he loves the wicked. Sometimes, civilsations and nations have to be shown tough love for their own good, but the people at Bohemian Grove, for example, and the clergy of the Roman Catholic Church, would not want to hear that for obvious reasons...

May I ask you: do you think the French inquisition was God's will?

If not, why did he allow it to happen, since it was IMO the torture of the good by the wicked?

Have you seen the Photographs of Babies deformed due to the effects of Depleted and Non-Depleted Uranium Munitions?

Yes and I have seen far more disturbing things than that. :(

Does it justify a God slaying thousands of people for exercising the free will he gave them? :confused:

titurel

10-12-2007, 12:58 AM

May I ask you: do you think the French inquisition was God's will?

If not, why did he allow it to happen, since it was IMO the torture of the good by the wicked?
The French Revolution was largely motivated by the secret societies such as Freemasonry, and the ideals that surrounded the Enlightenment Movement, which is based on serpentine philosophy and the Kabbalah...

The reason for why God allows things to happen was explained in the parable that Christ gave of the wheat and the weeds.

adimon

10-12-2007, 12:59 AM

Can you give me a definition of God, titurel? :confused:

adimon

10-12-2007, 01:00 AM

The French Revolution

I was asking about the inquisition..?

razed1

10-12-2007, 01:09 AM

Because the race of Adam had free will. It's true that Adam and Eve literally didn't die on the same day as they ate the "fruit", but in that day that they did... they died in a spiritual sense. They also lost their immortality. The Serpent lied and deceived Eve, who has become the symbolic high priestess of the Kabbalah and of the Brotherhood...

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6897/mwglbcyseallglp3.jpg

Above: The Masonic Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon's official seal. Notice the seal is almost identical to Freemason Waite's High Priestess Tarot card. Interestingly, it's green. In "The Wizard of Oz", everything in the Emerald City, which is a metaphor for the NWO, is also green. Osiris is the Green man of the so-called Mysteries. Image Source (http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/grandlodge.html)

doesnt make sense,

if you think about this logically, if i had a child and i dont tell them that if they talk to strangers, or take candy from strangers, that they might end up getting hurt or worse, i am a not a responisble parent

so you say that adam and ever were innocents, then why the heck would allow these innocents to be exposed to the so called 'evil serpent' in the first place

and if it was 'free will' well then what kind of god wouldnt give his creation ALL the information about good and evil, so THEN theyre will is truely free.

and that excuse about they were immortal in the garden, and lost it when they were cast out, funny how god gets and angry and punishes innocence form makin a mistake

oh and the 'serpent' told adam and eve exactly what would happen if they ate from teh tree, and thats exactly what did happen, so theres no deception on behalf of the serpent

i suggest you not go along witht he mainstream beleifs and do more esoteric research on the personalities of the bible
and ALL its translations, ie. MIStranslations, such as the king james authorized version

titurel

10-12-2007, 01:12 AM

Can you give me a definition of God, titurel? :confused:
It's impossible to circumscribe God with words but there are many biblical texts that describe God's attributes and purpose.

titurel

10-12-2007, 01:16 AM

doesnt make sense,

if you think about this logically, if i had a child and i dont tell them that if they talk to strangers, or take candy from strangers, that they might end up getting hurt or worse, i am a not a responisble parent

so you say that adam and ever were innocents, then why the heck would allow these innocents to be exposed to the so called 'evil serpent' in the first place

and if it was 'free will' well then what kind of god wouldnt give his creation ALL the information about good and evil, so THEN theyre will is truely free.

and that excuse about they were immortal in the garden, and lost it when they were cast out, funny how god gets and angry and punishes innocence form makin a mistake

oh and the 'serpent' told adam and eve exactly what would happen if they ate from teh tree, and thats exactly what did happen, so theres no deception on behalf of the serpent

i suggest you not go along witht he mainstream beleifs and do more esoteric research on the personalities of the bible
and ALL its translations, ie. MIStranslations, such as the king james authorized version
Yes but the serpent didn't tell them that they would loose their immortality, which is the key thing. But the Fall only created the illusion of death, which to the body is a very real thing and the reason for a lot of suffering. The serpent didn't explain any of that. If God had not of bestowed free will on his creation, he would only have created puppets!

adimon

10-12-2007, 01:17 AM

doesnt make sense,

if you think about this logically, if i had a child and i dont tell them that if they talk to strangers, or take candy from strangers, that they might end up getting hurt or worse, i am a not a responisble parent

so you say that adam and ever were innocents, then why the heck would allow these innocents to be exposed to the so called 'evil serpent' in the first place

and if it was 'free will' well then what kind of god wouldnt give his creation ALL the information about good and evil, so THEN theyre will is truely free.

and that excuse about they were immortal in the garden, and lost it when they were cast out, funny how god gets and angry and punishes innocence form makin a mistake

oh and the 'serpent' told adam and eve exactly what would happen if they ate from teh tree, and thats exactly what did happen, so theres no deception on behalf of the serpent

i suggest you not go along witht he mainstream beleifs and do more esoteric research on the personalities of the bible
and ALL its translations, ie. MIStranslations, such as the king james authorized version

Brilliant post! Very well said :)

It's impossible to circumscribe God with words but there are many biblical texts that describe God's attributes and purpose.

What does he mean to you though?

synak

10-12-2007, 01:17 AM

Can you give me a definition of God...

Osiris

titurel

10-12-2007, 01:18 AM

I was asking about the inquisition..?
Well the Inquisition came from the Roman Church, which is a wolf in sheep's clothing, so it's not surprising that they purpetrated the Inquisition. The Church is Babylon the Great, the Harlot who fornicated with the kings and rulers of the earth and got into bed with politicians. Politics and religion should never be mixed together, IMO...

titurel

10-12-2007, 01:20 AM

What does he mean to you though?
It means that the purpose of life is to ultimately reuinte with God. At the moment, we can only understand God through understanding his attributes and intentions, but as we evolve further, spiritually, we may at some time in the future gain deeper insights and understandings.

adimon

10-12-2007, 01:20 AM

If God had not of bestowed free will on his creation, he would only have created puppets!

But why not present them with adequate and balanced information, as Razed1 suggests? :confused:

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-12-2007, 01:21 AM

Cordial Felicitations Adimon:

Yes; all those who were killed will live again, at least for awhile. Depends how the 'Big Executive Meetings' go.

The brief span of Earths History since Adam, the Last 6,000 years,(the Billions of Years of Earths History prior to Adam are of less significance) are to provide Similitudes, Paradigms for Humankinds edification. To Train Humans in the Qualities of: Character Education.

Everything happens according to Yahwehs plan. Character Education

Yahshua as the example.

He confused Lanquages in Nimrods Time because Humankind would have destroyed themselves before His Plan worked out.

He had the Flood to preserve His Plan, because again Humankind was well on its way to destroying themselves.

Humankind is its own worst enemy.

I rose the STDs issue and you feel Modern Science can handle that.

The: CDC & WHO think differently.

FREE WILL: I address this in the Book of Yahweh Thread

Before Yahweh created Humans, He created the Malakim (angels)

The Malakim (angels) were 'Forced' to Live by the Laws of the Torah.

Hillel, A Malakim, was chosen to be Yahwehs Wife. She was Trained in the Laws and given a High Office next to Yahweh, to Teach and Uphold the Laws.

Hillel became jealous of the worship given to Yahweh, she desired that and more.

She thought FREE WILL would be superior to the Torah.

She convinced 1/3 of the Malakim (angels) to join her in rebellion against Yahweh and His Government of the Torah.

Upon Rebelling, Hillel,Queen of Heaven, became Satan (Nathan>Adversary)

So Yahweh had already created a Race of Beings, the Malakim, prior to Humans.

They rebelled, so Yahweh decided to let Humans to have Free Will, Satans way, and learn the results for ourselves.

As we, now, can look at the past 6,000 years of Human History, we can determine it is Individual Deficits of Morality that are the Root Cause of the Misery and Sorrow on this Planet.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

titurel

10-12-2007, 01:21 AM

Osiris
Osiris is the 'green man' and one of the deities of Freemasonry. Osiris was obviously originally revered in the ancient Egyptian religion.

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-12-2007, 01:30 AM

doesnt make sense,

if you think about this logically, if i had a child and i dont tell them that if they talk to strangers, or take candy from strangers, that they might end up getting hurt or worse, i am a not a responisble parent

so you say that adam and ever were innocents, then why the heck would allow these innocents to be exposed to the so called 'evil serpent' in the first place

and if it was 'free will' well then what kind of god wouldnt give his creation ALL the information about good and evil, so THEN theyre will is truely free.

and that excuse about they were immortal in the garden, and lost it when they were cast out, funny how god gets and angry and punishes innocence form makin a mistake

oh and the 'serpent' told adam and eve exactly what would happen if they ate from teh tree, and thats exactly what did happen, so theres no deception on behalf of the serpent

i suggest you not go along witht he mainstream beleifs and do more esoteric research on the personalities of the bible
and ALL its translations, ie. MIStranslations, such as the king james authorized version

Cordial Felicitations Razed1:

The Book of Yahweh does provide complete instruction, based upon the 613 Laws, Judgements & Statutes.

Encompasses all conceivable Human Interactions.

Eve was deceived, Adam was not.

Adam had been Trained in the Laws.

Remember: They had every Tree & Resource in Eden, the Garden of Yahweh, except for 1 Tree.

It sometimes seems a component of Human Nature is to desire what we cannot have.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

adimon

10-12-2007, 01:34 AM

Osiris

Care to expand?

Well the Inquisition came from the Roman Church, which is a wolf in sheep's clothing, so it's not surprising that they purpetrated the Inquisition. The Church is Babylon the Great, the Harlot who fornicated with the kings and rulers of the earth and got into bed with politicians. Politics and religion should never be mixed together, IMO...

So who, in history, and today, are the REAL Christians ?

It means that the purpose of life is to ultimately reuinte with God. At the moment, we can only understand God through understanding his attributes and intentions, but as we evolve further, spiritually, we may at some time in the future gain deeper insights and understandings.

Thanks for your definition.

The brief span of Earths History since Adam, the Last 6,000 years,(the Billions of Years of Earths History prior to Adam are of less significance)

Snoop, can you explain to me why you think the earth is 6000 years since Adam? Adam was a few days after the rock was made, which has been dated to before 6000 years, by some order of magnitude...

I rose the STDs issue and you feel Modern Science can handle that.

I think there is a conspiracy behind AIDS. I think it can be eradicated. But that's a bit too off-topic.

Osiris is the 'green man' and one of the deities of Freemasonry. Osiris was obviously originally revered in the ancient Egyptian religion.

Jesus is the 'pink man' and one of triune Gods of Boredom. He was originally revered for killing vegetation and doing magic tricks.

synak

10-12-2007, 01:38 AM

Osiris is the 'green man' and one of the deities of Freemasonry. Osiris was obviously originally revered in the ancient Egyptian religion.

Very much true, and I would go far as to say he is the main 'deity' or 'god' worshiped by them. Though some may not not agree, I would also say he is the entity that nearly all humanity is worshiping in one or another through deceit and manipulation (while remaining unaware). The puppeteers can be tracked back as far as Egypt leading back to Osiris. The "bloodline" so often revered and claimed by the soulless is that of his.

titurel

10-12-2007, 01:38 AM

So who, in history, and today, are the REAL Christians ?
I personally don't like labels. People want to pigeon hole other people, but that fall's into the Brotherhood's plan of divide and rule. Many people don't like to associated with the label Christianity because it denotes anything, including Roman Catholicism, which many are strictly opposed to.

Snoop, can you explain to me why you think the earth is 6000 years since Adam? Adam was a few days after the rock was made, which has been dated to before 6000 years, by some order of magnitude...
The language of the creation story in Genesis is written in symbolic language and obviously wasn't meant to be taken literally!

synak

10-12-2007, 01:40 AM

Care to expand?

I will introduce my insights as I go along. In the meantime you can ask whatever questions you may have pertaining to the subject. I'll try to answer any and most with what time available to me. Thanks,

titurel

10-12-2007, 01:41 AM

Jesus is the 'pink man' and one of triune Gods of Boredom. He was originally revered for killing vegetation and doing magic tricks.
Oscar Wilde put it more intelligently... The following quote is from a letter Oscar Wilde wrote while in Reading Jail (the letter also known as "De Profundis"):

He understood the leprosy of the leper, the darkness of the blind, the fierce misery of those who live for pleasure, the strange poverty of the rich.

He has all the colour elements of life; mystery, strangeness, pathos, suggestion, ecstasy, love. He appeals to the temper of wonder, and creates that mood in which alone he can be understood.

The great sins of the world take place in the brain; but it is in the brain that everything takes place... It is in the brain that the poppy is red, that the sky is blue, that the skylark sings.

There is one subject on which and through which I would like to express myself and that is 'Christ as the precursor of the romantic movement in life'.

The subject is intensely fascinating because I see in Jesus, not merely the essentials of the supreme romantic type, but all the accidents, the wilfulnesses even, of the romantic temperament also.

He was the first person who ever said to people that they should live 'flower-like lives.' He fixed the phrase. He took children as the type of what people should try to become!

More of Oscar Wilde on Christ, in his De Profundis:

"...he who would lead a Christ-like life must be entirely and absolutely himself... [for] more than anyone else in history [Christ] wakes in us that temper of wonder to which romance always appeals. ...as he passed by on the highway of life people who had seen nothing of life's mystery saw it clearly ... And above all, Christ is the most supreme of individualists. ...It is a man's soul that Christ is always looking for. ...That is because one realizes the soul only by getting rid of all alien passions, all acquired culture, and all external possessions, be they good or evil. ...Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. Christ was not merely the supreme individualist, but he was the first individualist in history. ...He appeals to the temper of wonder, and creates that mood in which alone he can be understood.

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-12-2007, 01:42 AM

CF: Adimon:

My position is: The Earth is Billions of Years old. And many things occured.
Genesis 1:1-1:3

Prior to the creation of Adam.

The Book of Yahweh provides many verses of Begettings & Deaths.

You can do the Math, (I have done this), and from the Verse of Adams Death, You can follow a path that adds up to 4,000 years until the Birth of Messiah, as Prophecied over 100 Times.

2,000 +or- since Yahshuas birth.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

adimon

10-12-2007, 01:58 AM

I personally don't like labels. People want to pigeon hole other people, but that fall's into the Brotherhood's plan of divide and rule. Many people don't like to associated with the label Christianity because it denotes anything, including Roman Catholicism, which many are strictly opposed to.

The point I was making was you were saying that the Cardinals at the time of the inquisition weren't Christian., as a way of eschewing Christian guilt for those atrocities. Fair enough, but who are the real Christians. Whose religion is it? Who takes responsibility? according to what you've been saying in the past 2 days, clearly not the Pope. What about Dr. Williams, or anyone else?

The language of the creation story in Genesis is written in symbolic language and obviously wasn't meant to be taken literally!

Agree to disagree.

adimon

10-12-2007, 02:02 AM

Why does it contradict the 10 commandments? You didn't say...

I'm saying that the uses of the temple didn't contradict the commandments, did they?

The reason why he acted in the way he did was because the temple was being used for corrupt purposes... usury, etc... He did the right thing!

RIGHT in what way?

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:03 AM

The point I was making was you were saying that the Cardinals at the time of the inquisition weren't Christian., as a way of eschewing Christian guilt for those atrocities. Fair enough, but who are the real Christians. Whose religion is it? Who takes responsibility? according to what you've been saying in the past 2 days, clearly not the Pope. What about Dr. Williams, or anyone else?
God never intended man to build temples and churches. Neither is there any need for organised religion. All organised religions actually owe their source to the Kabbalah, as the highly esteemed Freemason, Albert Pike once wrote. Craving the things of the world, and seeking the ways of the world, does not bring happiness or satisfaction. That's why Christ said to look for understanding within... not here or there or at some deity up in the sky, but within because it's within that we find the connections to higher realities and dimensions. Therein lies another problem because within is also where the portals are to the lower dimensions and many take the wrong path - sometimes deliberately and sometimes by mistake!

Agree to disagree.[/quote]

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:05 AM

I'm saying that the uses of the temple didn't contradict the commandments, did they?
The temple was meant to represent a spiritual concept. Instead, the usurers were worshipping mammon!

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:08 AM

The language of the creation story in Genesis is written in symbolic language and obviously wasn't meant to be taken literally!
Agree to disagree.
You would want to disagree because it removes a major criticism of yours, but the fact is, the laguage used in Genesis is clearly symbolic, but we can agree to disagree if you insist!

adimon

10-12-2007, 02:08 AM

razed1

10-12-2007, 02:09 AM

Cordial Felicitations Razed1:

The Book of Yahweh does provide complete instruction, based upon the 613 Laws, Judgements & Statutes.

Encompasses all conceivable Human Interactions.

Eve was deceived, Adam was not.

Adam had been Trained in the Laws.

Remember: They had every Tree & Resource in Eden, the Garden of Yahweh, except for 1 Tree.

It sometimes seems a component of Human Nature is to desire what we cannot have.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

i dont agree with this either

adimon

10-12-2007, 02:10 AM

You would want to disagree because it removes a major criticism of yours

It doesn't remove it. The original point of this debate was whether the Bible is a good account of the formation of the Elite. My whole point is that it is full of contradictions and riddles.

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:11 AM

That description of the traders' behaviour is one that the Christians chose. Who's to say that any worship was taking place by the conduction of that commerce? I repeat, it does not contradict the commandments, does it? Or are you saying that they were breaking the 1st commandment?
Usery and worship are not compatible from a spiritual perspective. One is geared towards gross matter and the other is geared towards honouring higher ideals. I also do not understand the term "worship" in the manner that Christendom has taught it, which has more to do with Babylonian rituals and customs, rather than spiritual insights...

gordonfreeman

10-12-2007, 02:12 AM

My mom ditched her stupid church for that, but she is still a Christian.

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:13 AM

It doesn't remove it. The original point of this debate was whether the Bible is a good account of the formation of the Elite. My whole point is that it is full of contradictions and riddles.
So far, you haven't convinced me that there are contradictions. There are "riddles", but they are designed to exercise and strengthen the mind. We can't live off of Janet and John books all our lives and expect to grow in maturity. However, the Bible is a good account, not only of the formation of the elite, but also their demise and fall, but they do not want to hear about that!

adimon

10-12-2007, 02:17 AM

Usery and worship are not compatible from a spiritual perspective. One is geared towards gross matter and the other is geared towards honouring higher ideals. I also do not understand the term "worship" in the manner that Christendom has taught it, which has more to do with Babylonian rituals and customs, rather than spiritual insights...

So does commerce in the temple break any commandments? Simple question.

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:21 AM

So does commerce in the temple break any commandments? Simple question.
Yes because the usery in the temple was not directed with respect to God! They were worshipping mammon, and that would be against the 1st commandment.

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:22 AM

Modern usery also revolves around the golden calf of capitalism.

adimon

10-12-2007, 02:29 AM

Yes because the usery in the temple was not directed with respect to God! They were worshipping mammon, and that would be against the 1st commandment.

OK, so I repeat - the Christians say that by conducting commerce the Jews are worshipping mammon, as you have said.

Is there an account of the Jewish point of view on this?

If I say by visiting this forum you are worshipping mammon, and come round and trash your house, what right have I got? If I say I have God on my side, you could easily reply "So have I" !!

The Jews already had a God. How can Jesus trash their markets and force his definition of worship onto them?

Conducting trade is a very old primitive activity, older than Judaism or any other recorded religion. There is nothing wrong with trade, and it does not indicate worship in any way.

You can't say that all other Gods are false, and then suggest that a person's behaviour indicates (to you) worship of that (non-existent) god!!

:D

razed1

10-12-2007, 02:34 AM

OK, so I repeat - the Christians say that by conducting commerce the Jews are worshipping mammon, as you have said.

Is there an account of the Jewish point of view on this?

If I say by visiting this forum you are worshipping mammon, and come round and trash your house, what right have I got? If I say I have God on my side, you could easily reply "So have I" !!

The Jews already had a God. How can Jesus trash their markets and force his definition of worship onto them?

Conducting trade is a very old primitive activity, older than Judaism or any other recorded religion. There is nothing wrong with trade, and it does not indicate worship in any way.

You can't say that all other Gods are false, and then suggest that a person's behaviour indicates (to you) worship of that (non-existent) god!!

:D

j.maxwell says in his "inner world of the occult" talk ,

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8394844811105390386

that the jews, or what is more accurately called the phoenician - canaanites, they were not mono theistic and actually worshipped many gods,

razed1

10-12-2007, 02:35 AM

i really hope titurel watches that lecture of jordan, then i would love to hear your reaction to it.... :)

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:39 AM

OK, so I repeat - the Christians say that by conducting commerce the Jews are worshipping mammon, as you have said.

Is there an account of the Jewish point of view on this?

If I say by visiting this forum you are worshipping mammon, and come round and trash your house, what right have I got? If I say I have God on my side, you could easily reply "So have I" !!

The Jews already had a God. How can Jesus trash their markets and force his definition of worship onto them?

Conducting trade is a very old primitive activity, older than Judaism or any other recorded religion. There is nothing wrong with trade, and it does not indicate worship in any way.

You can't say that all other Gods are false, and then suggest that a person's behaviour indicates (to you) worship of that (non-existent) god!!
The reason why Christ acted was because it was taking place in the temple. Christ didn't upset the tables in the market square, but in the temple, and it's in the context of the temple that the act should be understood.

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:43 AM

i really hope titurel watches that lecture of jordan, then i would love to hear your reaction to it....
Yes, the Israelites often went off and worshipped other deities and partook in Pagan customs. That's one reason why God allowed them to be taken into Babylonian captivity. We're still live under Babylonian captivity today but most people either don't want to know or they're simply not interested!

As for astro-theology, it's a very mypoic theory that doesn't take into account other dimensions and the beings that inhabit them.

Having said that, Maxwell does have many valid things to say about the Pagan and occult nature of money systems, etc., and in that regard, he's an interesting conspiracy researcher, but William Cooper was far better, IMO.

adimon

10-12-2007, 02:45 AM

Yeah I heard that before. But there are copies of the Torah which are older than that and prove it to be bollocks, I think.

adimon

10-12-2007, 02:46 AM

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:49 AM

Yeah I heard that before. But there are copies of the Torah which are older than that and prove it to be bollocks, I think.
You'll have to expand because I haven't a clue what on earth you're talking about!

adimon

10-12-2007, 02:50 AM

Not expanding until you address the points I've now had to repeat, because you didn't answer me as to what right Jesus had to force his definition of worship. I have provided you with an example of me trashing your house which is analogically similar.

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:51 AM

OK, so I repeat - the Christians say that by conducting commerce the Jews are worshipping mammon, as you have said.

Is there an account of the Jewish point of view on this?

If I say by visiting this forum you are worshipping mammon, and come round and trash your house, what right have I got? If I say I have God on my side, you could easily reply "So have I" !!

The Jews already had a God. How can Jesus trash their markets and force his definition of worship onto them?

Conducting trade is a very old primitive activity, older than Judaism or any other recorded religion. There is nothing wrong with trade, and it does not indicate worship in any way.

You can't say that all other Gods are false, and then suggest that a person's behaviour indicates (to you) worship of that (non-existent) god!!
The point is that the reason Christ acted in the way he did is because usery was being practised in the temple.

In the broader context, it's not a question of picking on Jews because the golden calf of capitalism is now global and practised by many different people of different faiths, including of the atheist faith.

razed1

10-12-2007, 02:52 AM

Yes, the Israelites often went off and worshipped other deities and partook in Pagan customs. That's one reason why God allowed them to be taken into Babylonian captivity. We're still live under Babylonian captivity today but most people either don't want to know or they're simply not interested!

As for astro-theology, it's a very mypoic theory that doesn't take into account other dimensions and the beings that inhabit them.

Having said that, Maxwell does have many valid things to say about the Pagan and occult nature of money systems, etc., and in that regard, he's an interesting conspiracy researcher, but William Cooper was far better, IMO.

do did you watch that video???

just spend 3 hrs tonight watching it, and then come back to this thread, then give us your thoughts on "god"

when i read statements like this:

That's one reason why God allowed them to be taken into Babylonian captivity

this is when i suggest you watch that talk first

trust me, you wont regret it

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:52 AM

razed1

10-12-2007, 02:53 AM

oh and i hope you dont mind titurel, but can you tell me how old you are???? and are u a man or woman???

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:56 AM

do did you watch that video???

just spend 3 hrs tonight watching it, and then come back to this thread, then give us your thoughts on "god"

when i read statements like this:

this is when i suggest you watch that talk first

trust me, you wont regret it
I haven't got time at the moment to watch a 3 hour video but I addressed the point that was made that the Israelites did in fact start worshipping other gods and practising Pagan customs and traditions and that's why they were led into captivity as a punishment for their negligence. We're still under Babylonian captivity today. The institutions of big business, big religion and big politics all revolve around the occult cabal that originated in ancient Babylon and Sumer, and they all keep humanity enslaved and in captivity. That's what Bob Marley used to sing about, in songs such as his "Babylon System"...!

Babylon system is the vampire, yea! (vampire)
Suckin' the children day by day, yeah!
Me say: de Babylon system is the vampire, falling empire,
Suckin' the blood of the sufferers, yea-ea-ea-ea-e-ah!
Building church and university, wo-o-ooh, yeah! -
Deceiving the people continually, yea-ea!
Me say them graduatin' thieves and murderers;
Look out now: they suckin' the blood of the sufferers (sufferers).
Yea-ea-ea! (sufferers)

Tell the children the truth;
Tell the children the truth;
Tell the children the truth right now!
Come on and tell the children the truth;
Tell the children the truth;
Tell the children the truth;
Tell the children the truth;
Come on and tell the children the truth.

razed1

10-12-2007, 02:56 AM

razed1

10-12-2007, 02:59 AM

I haven't got time at the moment to watch a 3 hour video but I addressed the point that was made that the Israelites did in fact start worshipping other gods and practising Pagan customs and traditions and that's why they were led into captivity as a punishment. We're still under Babylonian captivity today. The institutions of big business, big religion and big politics all revolve around the occult cabal that originated in ancient babylon and Sumer, and they all keep humanity enslaved and in captivity. That's what Bob Marley used to sing about, in songs such as his "Babylon System"...!

yes you do have time to bicker back and forth on this forum, making misinformed ignorant statements,

but you have time to actually learn something in your life that will make you confront the truth

youre not as enlightened as you lead yourself to beleive, its never too late to learn

titurel

10-12-2007, 02:59 AM

if there are ppl who are serious (sirius? :D ) bible readers, i have the pdf of the "companion bible" that j.maxwell reccmoneds

it has long footnotes with all kinds of alternate interpretations of the words that were intentionally mistranslated in later versions of the bible
Thanks, but I prefer to have the original Greek and Hebrew texts in front of me so that I can work out the translation of words and passages for myself where necessary. It's not that difficult to learn how to do it if you have time and patience. I've been studying these things for over two decades...

razed1

10-12-2007, 03:00 AM

Thanks, but I prefer to have the original Greek and Hebrew texts in front of me so that I can work out the translation of words and passages for myself where necessary. It's not that difficult to learn how to do it if you have time and patience. I've been studying these things for over two decades...

well those original greek and hebrew versions dont seem to be doin ya any good

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:01 AM

yes you do have time to bicker back and forth on this forum, making misinformed ignorant statements,

but you have time to actually learn something in your life that will make you confront the truth

youre not as enlightened as you lead yourself to beleive, its never too late to learn
If you have something interesting to say then say it, rather than cheap bickering you now want to seem to get engaged in...

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:02 AM

well those original greek and hebrew versions dont seem to be doin ya any good
You have to cite examples, which you haven't given, otherwise, I haven't a clue what you're talking about.

razed1

10-12-2007, 03:03 AM

I've been studying these things for over two decades...

all that time, and ya still in the dark as much as some couch potato sheep that never touched a bible

you have all these opinions of astro theology , and maxwell and the occult, yet youre not willing to watch a 3hr lecture that will provide with more truth than 2 decades of mistruth

how bout some actual homework, instead of opinions hanging out of ever orifice in your body

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:06 AM

all that time, and ya still in the dark as much as some couch potato sheep that never touched a bible

you have all these opinions of astro theology , and maxwell and the occult, yet youre not willing to watch a 3hr lecture that will provide with more truth than 2 decades of mistruth

how bout some actual homework, instead of opinions hanging out of ever orifice in your body
As I said, unless you illustrate your posts with some examples, references, sources or something more substantial, I can't comment because I haven't a clue what you're talking about!

adimon

10-12-2007, 03:07 AM

The point is that the reason Christ acted in the way he did is because usery was being practised in the temple.

In the broader context, it's not a question of picking on Jews because the golden calf of capitalism is now global and practised by many different people of different faiths, including of the atheist faith.

I still haven't got a clue what you're talking about...

I am making a philosophical point. Jesus is only doing the right thing if the traders trading in the temple could be seen as worshipping mammon. Who's to say that trading in a temple means one is worshipping anything?

In this case, all those who go to Church/Temple/Mosque are worshipping mammon, which means there are only a handful of true Christians/Jews/Muslims in the world, leaving the Hare Krishnas as the world's dominant religion! :D

That's what Bob Marley used to sing about, in songs such as his "Babylon System"...!

And he was a weed-smoking capitalist. Go figure.

razed1

10-12-2007, 03:08 AM

If you have something interesting to say then say it, rather than cheap bickering you now want to seem to get engaged in...

because ppl like you piss me off, you make blanket statements on subjects you never actually looked at (you might claim to, but its apparent from your posts) and pointless threads/posts

TOTAL WASTE OF TIME / ENERGY

yet youre not willing to learn from ppl that TAUGHT DAVID ICKE

even ppl on the old forum, at least the trolls and naysayers used to watch the lectures, even if they didnt agree with it

but theres a lot ppl who mislead readers of this forum, by making false statements on subjects they tehmselves have no knowledge

so like i said, log out, make some hot chocolate, and spend some quallity watching that lecture, then come back and tell us what is "god"..

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:10 AM

I am making a philosophical point. Jesus is only doing the right thing if the traders trading in the temple could be seen as worshipping mammon. Who's to say that trading in a temple means one is worshipping anything?
The point is, the userers in the temple were not using the temple for what it was intended for. It had become a den of corruption.

In this case, all those who go to Church/Temple/Mosque are worshipping mammon, which means there are only a handful of true Christians/Jews/Muslims in the world, leaving the Hare Krishnas as the world's dominant religion!
You seem to forget that God never intended man to build temples and churches in the first place!

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:12 AM

And he was a weed-smoking capitalist. Go figure.
He certainly did smoke weed and he did become rich, but neverthelss, we are still captives of the Babylonian system, which seems to be the point that you're trying to ignore.

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:14 AM

because ppl like you piss me off, you make blanket statements on subjects you never actually looked at (you might claim to, but its apparent from your posts) and pointless threads/posts

TOTAL WASTE OF TIME / ENERGY

yet youre not willing to learn from ppl that TAUGHT DAVID ICKE

even ppl on the old forum, at least the trolls and naysayers used to watch the lectures, even if they didnt agree with it

but theres a lot ppl who mislead readers of this forum, by making false statements on subjects they tehmselves have no knowledge

so like i said, log out, make some hot chocolate, and spend some quallity watching that lecture, then come back and tell us what is "god"..
I've already stated in other posts that a great deal can be learned from all of the conspiracy researchers. You can also learn a lot from Freemasons, but everything else in your post needs to be backed up with more substance, otherwise I can't comment on vague and unqualified assertions.

razed1

10-12-2007, 03:16 AM

I've already stated in other posts that a great deal can be learned from all of the conspiracy researchers. You can also learn a lot from Freemasons, but everything else in your post needs to be backed up with more substance, otherwise I can't comment on vague and unqualified assertions.

yea yea, just a buncha hot air

ppl who are actually interested in the truth of the matter and broadening their perspective, this breed of ppl it seems is pretty rare on this forum

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:18 AM

yea yea, just a buncha hot air

ppl who are actually interested in the truth of the matter and broadening their perspective, this breed of ppl it seems is pretty rare on this forum
Bring something with substance to the discussion and we can discuss that. So far it seems like you just want to bicker.

adimon

10-12-2007, 03:20 AM

The point is, the userers in the temple were not using the temple for what it was intended for. It had become a den of corruption.

That's not what I asked.

I am making a philosophical point. Jesus is only doing the right thing if the traders trading in the temple could be seen as worshipping mammon. Who's to say that trading in a temple means one is worshipping anything?

You seem to forget that God never intended man to build temples and churches in the first place!

You seem to forget that I dont think god exists. There is certainly no mention in the bible of god suggesting people build anything. but the jews built temples, and he didn't stop them. so the point remains:- who is to say that trading in a temple equals worship of mammon?

He certainly did smoke weed and he did become rich, but neverthelss, we are still captives of the Babylonian system, which seems to be the point that you're trying to ignore.

No the point I'm trying to make is that Marley was in it for the money.

And I disagree that the root of our system today is in Babylon.

razed1

10-12-2007, 03:21 AM

Bring something with substance to the discussion and we can discuss that. So far it seems like you just want to bicker.

all this 'substance' you speak of, i dont see any in your posts....

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:25 AM

You seem to forget that I dont think god exists. There is certainly no mention in the bible of god suggesting people build anything. but the jews built temples, and he didn't stop them. so the point remains:- who is to say that trading in a temple equals worship of mammon?
The israleites did a lot of things against God's advice, which is why they lost their freedoms and became captives of other peoples.

From a spiritual perspective, usery has no spiritual function because it's based on the ego and selfish interests.

No the point I'm trying to make is that Marley was in it for the money.
Whatever... but that wasn't the point I was highlighting...

And I disagree that the root of our system today is in Babylon.
Then you should research where the our financial system originated. It originated in ancient Babylon and Sumer, the cradle of modern civilisation. The financial system is also maintained by the elite who honour the ancient mystery religion, which is why you can spot so many of the ancient mystery religion logos and symbols adorning big international businesses and corporations!

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:26 AM

all this 'substance' you speak of, i dont see any in your posts....
Then don't comment on my posts!

razed1

10-12-2007, 03:30 AM

well when i see someone make incorrect statements, something urges in me to post

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:31 AM

well when i see someone make incorrect statements, something urges in me to post
Good, I do the same!

razed1

10-12-2007, 03:33 AM

**DISCLAIMER to the rest of the forum

titurel's posts are "bollox"

adimon

10-12-2007, 03:33 AM

the point remains:- who is to say that trading in a temple equals worship of mammon?

The israleites did a lot of things against God's advice, which is why they lost their freedoms and became captives of other peoples.

From a spiritual perspective, usery has no spiritual function because it's based on the ego and selfish interests.

You are not answering my question. What gives jesus, the disciples or christians the right to say that trading in temple constitutes worship of mammon?

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:37 AM

**DISCLAIMER to the rest of the forum

titurel's posts are "bollox"
Stop bickering! LOL!

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:39 AM

You are not answering my question. What gives jesus, the disciples or christians the right to say that trading in temple constitutes worship of mammon?
Because from a spirutal persepctive, usery is a selfish activity, and you don't even need to be Christian to see that! It's self evident. Besides, I don't adopt labels. I am what I am and I don't need any labels or excuses! Labels are a product of the elite who want the people to be divided! Divided they fall, united they rule!

adimon

10-12-2007, 03:47 AM

What gives ANYONE the right to say that: trading in a temple constitutes worship of mammon?

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:50 AM

What gives ANYONE the right to say that: trading in a temple constitutes worship of mammon?
What gives anyone the right to say anything? Haven't you heard of free speech? Besides, I explained that usery is a selfish activity.

titurel

10-12-2007, 03:52 AM

Webster (1977) defines 'mammon' as: 1) the false god of riches and avarice. 2) riches regarded as an object of worship and greedy pursuit; wealth as an evil, more or less personified. Winston (1954) defines: 1) wealth, worldly gain; 2) greed for riches; cupidity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupidity). Oxford (1992) defines: god of wealth, regarded as evil or immoral; 'those who worship mammon' = greedy people who value money too highly.

The word is used in contemporary language with the same meaning in at least Finnish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_language) (mammona), Danish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_language) (mammon), Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_%28language%29) (mamon), Norwegian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_%28language%29) (mammon[1] (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/ordboksoek/ordbok.cgi?OPP=mammon&bokmaal=S%F8k+i+Bokm%E5lsordboka&ordbok=bokmaal&alfabet=n&renset=j)) , Polish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_%28language%29) (mamona), Czech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_%28language%29) (mamon), Slovak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_language) (mamona), Swedish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_language) (mammon), German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language) (Mammon) and Afrikaans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans) (Mammon).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammon

john white

10-12-2007, 04:12 AM

Why does God kill so many people if he loves them all?

God doesnt kill anyone: most especially becuase the essence of what we are cannot "die": death is merely transition

the Love of god is in our creation: the life we lead and the way we die are consequences of the choices we make and our adaption to the creation we find ourselves in

The gift of creation keeps on giving every moment we are here: it is, always and eternally, a constant act of Love

Yet, to feel that Love, we have to be open to it: Love is a flow

If we are closed, there can be no motion

adimon

10-12-2007, 04:23 AM

What gives anyone the right to say anything? Haven't you heard of free speech? Besides, I explained that usery is a selfish activity.

So why shouldn't trading in a temple be free, if no one has the right to say anything? Jesus should mind his business and not overturn tables.

Just because he, and you, view commerce as selfish, doesn't mean that it had anything to do with mammon, who doesn't exist.

God doesnt kill anyone

God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said “Thou shall not kill”. For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.

Good night folks. :)

razed1

10-12-2007, 04:24 AM

God doesnt kill anyone: most especially becuase the essence of what we are cannot "die": death is merely transition

the Love of god is in our creation: the life we lead and the way we die are consequences of the choices we make and our adaption to the creation we find ourselves in

The gift of creation keeps on giving every moment we are here: it is, always and eternally, a constant act of Love

Yet, to feel that Love, we have to be open to it: Love is a flow

If we are closed, there can be no motion

you didnt answer his question

why does god kill so many ppl (or their flesh and bone bodies) if he loves them all?

titurel

10-12-2007, 04:30 AM

you didnt answer his question

why does god kill so many ppl (or their flesh and bone bodies) if he loves them all?
It's called tough love, my dear...

razed1

10-12-2007, 04:33 AM

titurel

10-12-2007, 04:43 AM

what you are calling god, as this 'tough love' god, is really SATURN

saturn was the god worshipped in ancient palestine, and is venerated to this day in the vatican and mecca

but true wisdom is knowing that the closest thing to god in your life, is your mother, not some vengeful patriarch
I agree that Saturnalia takes place in the Vatican. But the God you describe is actually Satan the Devil. Satan doesn't offer love, let alone tough love. Satan hates life and loves death. Neither can Satan give life. Satan is the god of money. Satan seduces people with power and riches. Satan is a god of common seduction and teaches people that they can believe anything, even that they are gods and can do what they like with no moral code. Satan offers the easy life, so let's not get God confused that God does not despatch tough love where necessary. The problem is with a lot of the New Age people with their unconditional love. The world does need some tough love very badly. That's why people are wisely insulating themselves from its ability to vamp their energy because the parts of the world that are part of the problem and not the solution are going to receive some very tough love for the good of creation and life on earth for the future. Best not to be in a position to be the recipient of God's tough love but there are ways we can only experience God's unconditional love that's mild, invigurating and gentle. God can be a wonderful loving friend, but he can also be butch with nations that go astray, and those people in it have to reep what they've sewn. It's the primordial law of what you send out, you receive... so there will be many people in the nations who will not feel God's tough love, but rather his gentle, life giving love...

razed1

10-12-2007, 04:48 AM

more left brained misinformation from titurel

you keep talkin about god this and god that, when this personality as you describe him, does not, and has never existed

what devil??? is this devil a god?? is he one of the angels, or fallen angels??? or could it be you and the rest of the misinformed are atrributing godlike status and divinity to alien humanoids with telekinesis powers and mental capability, these might be the gods as perveiced by the adamic race, whos intelligence was compromised on the dan level,

but i assure, there not 'god'

eternal_spirit

10-12-2007, 04:52 AM

razed1

10-12-2007, 05:02 AM

Got to admit, some of those commandments in the Bible make sense, you'd do well to abide by some of them. Much better than the racist spiel you'll find in the Talmud. Or the insane, inequality promoted by the Caste system within the Hindu scriptures. :)

its not promoted in the hindu scriptures

the modern day caste system is thought up by the masters of your destiny

old days, there was a caste system, but not racial, but rather intellectual, meaning you could be of the same 'caste' and some chinese dude

but now theyve tricked the ppl to think its basis is in the family lineage and not intellectual

eternal_spirit

10-12-2007, 05:04 AM

its not promoted in the hindu scriptures

the modern day caste system is thought up by the masters of your destiny

old days, there was a caste system, but not racial, but rather intellectual, meaning you could be of the same 'caste' and some chinese dude

but now theyve tricked the ppl to think its basis is in the family lineage and not intellectual

...............

Yes, but if the Brahmin priesthood are the highest caste. Didn't they write the texts? Knowing they would make themselves the highest caste? caste is the same as class in English.

titurel

10-12-2007, 05:05 AM

what devil??? is this devil a god?? is he one of the angels, or fallen angels???
The Devil is the chief Reptilian "in the earth"who is marshalling the political NWO forces to hijack human destiny by taking it away from God's loving control. That is why the rulers of the world are going to wage war with God at the culmination of the ancient NWO agenda because they want to rest humanity away from God with the help of the Dragon power, the fingerprints of which can be seen all over the elite's enterprises!

father ted

10-12-2007, 05:10 AM

What has the god in the bible got against masturbation when he's the biggest wanker himself?

titurel

10-12-2007, 05:12 AM

What has the god in the bible got against masturbation when he's the biggest wanker himself?
LOL! There's always one person who likes to "pop up" in a discussion like this! :rolleyes:

razed1

10-12-2007, 05:14 AM

The Devil is the chief Reptilian "in the earth"who is marshalling the political NWO forces to hijack human destiny by taking it away from God's loving control. That is why the rulers of the world are going to wage war with God at the culmination of the ancient NWO agenda because they want to rest humanity away from God with the help of the Dragon power, the fingerprints of which can be seen all over the elite's enterprises!

youve been brainwashed into demonizing reptilian symbolism

real wisdom is knowing the reptilian represents high knowledge,

you hear barry white saying on the simpsons 'whacking day' episode

i love the sexy slither of a lady snake

whether barry knew or not, but the snake is really representing the essence of the female, the divinator, the teacher,

and thus with this modern day bible, you have the WOMAN being vilified and also the snake symbolised as evil

the two go hand in hand

this is why older religion speak of serpents teaching them

i dont deny there could be reptilians, but dont make the mistake of thinking all serpent symbolism is representing these reptilians

the vipermagi

high knowledge = high science = magik = feminine essence = serpent = the 5 faceted

father ted

10-12-2007, 05:21 AM

LOL! There's always one person who likes to "pop up" in a discussion like this! :rolleyes:

There are so many (contradictions) that such a thing would not be done justice at all if it wasn't made fun of. Therefore I believe the ONLY way to talk about these matters is as such.

john white

10-12-2007, 05:23 AM

So why shouldn't trading in a temple be free, if no one has the right to say anything? Jesus should mind his business and not overturn tables.

Just because he, and you, view commerce as selfish, doesn't mean that it had anything to do with mammon, who doesn't exist.

Good night folks. :)

LOL!

A character in a book isnt GOD Adimon!

totally different frame of reference going on!

And I gave my thoughts on scriputre earlier in the thread:

Do you care to comment on them?

Heres my perspective at this point on the thread:

At the heart of all spirituality is the spiritual experiance:

First we must define parameters to measure spirituality in a value in contemplation/debate

Do we consider the spiritual epxeriance to be possible and potentially genuine?

If we say "yes" to that, we are able to start gaining further understadning

titurel

10-12-2007, 05:24 AM

youve been brainwashed into demonizing reptilian symbolism

real wisdom is knowing the reptilian represents high knowledge,
I don't reject the point of view that the Reptilians have high knowedge, but that's understandable because they were once Divine, and I can't see any reason why they shouldn't have forgotten their high knowledge. We see it reflected all around us in culture, society, and civilisation at large, and on the media, especially from Hollywood. They have high knowledge but they forgot wisdom.

Despite Reptilians having high knowledge, Reptiles are cold-blooded, are unable to empathise with others, and they are predators, some venomous. They also can project an hypnotic gaze that is said to seduce people. Freemasonry can also be called the Brotherhood of the Serpent because they are given power to govern from behind the scenes of society, in darkness, by the Dragon.

john white

10-12-2007, 05:27 AM

you didnt answer his question

why does god kill so many ppl (or their flesh and bone bodies) if he loves them all?

I did: God doesnt kill anyone: people die as a result of being in the environment: it is not supposed to be a permanent experiance! Free Will takes precedence becuase God Loves us

What we have in this world at the moment is imbalance: the negativity is out of control

The change is about bringing that negativity back into balance with our positivity, and as a result produce a calmer world with far less extreme polarities: and that means far fewer needless deaths

But that is now and has always been under our control: that is the control we are going to exercise: that is the choice we are going to make

IMHO

titurel

10-12-2007, 05:28 AM

There are so many (contradictions) that such a thing would not be done justice at all if it wasn't made fun of. Therefore I believe the ONLY way to talk about these matters is as such.
Then it's difficult to talk about it! That's what the cops do, at the extreme end... when they don't want to discuss something, they get their tasers out instead. I'm always concerned about people that only want to ridicule and not discuss something. I wouldn't have learned half about Freemasonry if I only resorted to ridiculing them. It depends how much you want to expose yourself to, but the down side is you may loose out on something interesting!

razed1

10-12-2007, 05:39 AM

I don't reject the point of view that the Reptilians have high knowedge, but that's understandable because they were once Divine, and I can't see any reason why they shouldn't have forgotten their high knowledge. We see it reflected all around us in culture, society, and civilisation at large, and on the media, especially from Hollywood. They have high knowledge but they forgot wisdom.

Despite Reptilians having high knowledge, Reptiles are cold-blooded, are unable to empathise with others, and they are predators, some venomous. They also can project an hypnotic gaze that is said to seduce people. Freemasonry can also be called the Brotherhood of the Serpent because they are given power to govern from behind the scenes of society, in darkness, by the Dragon.

im not sayin that, forget the reptilians, theyre a side issue, and not as big of a player in the illuminati as icke might beleive

you completely miss the point of my post

titurel

10-12-2007, 05:44 AM

im not sayin that, forget the reptilians, theyre a side issue, and not as big of a player in the illuminati as icke might beleive

you completely miss the point of my post
I also accept that reptilian symbolism contains high knowledge, but the word on the street is that the serpent Brotherhood are big players in the illuminati...

adimon

10-12-2007, 06:45 AM

A character in a book isnt GOD Adimon

Nothing is god. The subject is the content of the bible, in which god kills people for no reason.

And I gave my thoughts on scriputre earlier in the thread:

Do you care to comment on them?

I'll go back and find them.

Heres my perspective at this point on the thread:

At the heart of all spirituality is the spiritual experiance:

First we must define parameters to measure spirituality in a value in contemplation/debate

Do we consider the spiritual epxeriance to be possible and potentially genuine?

If we say "yes" to that, we are able to start gaining further understadning

I don't understand any of that I'm afraid.

If you want to have that conversation, you'll have to help me find a port of entry. And please...call me Chris :)

I did: God doesnt kill anyone: people die as a result of being in the environment

If you believe in God then you can believe whatever you like about the level of his responsibility in the world for killing, but I was making points about the content of the bible and its contradictions.

titurel

10-12-2007, 06:48 AM

I did: God doesnt kill anyone: people die as a result of being in the environment: it is not supposed to be a permanent experiance! Free Will takes precedence becuase God Loves us

What we have in this world at the moment is imbalance: the negativity is out of control

The change is about bringing that negativity back into balance with our positivity, and as a result produce a calmer world with far less extreme polarities: and that means far fewer needless deaths
I agree.

adimon

10-12-2007, 06:50 AM

God doesnt kill anyone: most especially becuase the essence of what we are cannot "die": death is merely transition

the Love of god is in our creation: the life we lead and the way we die are consequences of the choices we make and our adaption to the creation we find ourselves in

The gift of creation keeps on giving every moment we are here: it is, always and eternally, a constant act of Love

Yet, to feel that Love, we have to be open to it: Love is a flow

If we are closed, there can be no motion

I guess this is what you're referring to JW.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by this either. For me there is no need to look at creation in the way that you view it. However, if you can help me find a port of entry to your thoughts, I am happy to debate this, but alas I have no response to those particular words. :)

megafish33

10-12-2007, 08:33 AM

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-12-2007, 09:28 AM

Jesus was Jewish and spoke about fulfilling the Torah,

Ladies & Gentlemen, Cordial Felicitations:

I would like to take a pause of this 'Inconsistencies' Mongering.

Most of the quoted Texts are deficient Translations and/or taken out of context.

'Garbage in(evilbible.com)Garbage Out'

Ladies & Gentlemen, here is the GREAT CONSISTENCY of the Bible, the Torah.

The Torah is the Primary Focus of the Entire Bible from the Book of Genesis to the Book of Revelation.

Christianity is the Paganization of Messianic Yahwism.

This is Satans Great Deceit.

Steal Worship (service) from Yahweh, and have the People Worship God, Herself.

Yahshua Messiah, the Apostles and Disciples never deviated from teaching and upholding the Laws of the Torah.

These include the Weekly Sabbath from Friday Sundown to Saturday Sundown

The Clean and Unclean Foods.

All 613 Laws, Judgements & Statutes of the Torah.

It was after the Death & Ressurection of the Messiah, and the Deaths of the Apostles that Apostasy (corruption) crept into the Congregations.

This is explained in the Book of Revelation; the 7 Congregations of Messianic Yahwists.

The First: Smyrna is perfect, keeping all the Laws & Holy Days correctly.

As Time progressed, beyond 90CE, the Congregations weakened, until the 5th was totaly corrupted. During this Time, the Messianic Yahwists endured 10 Roman Prosocutions, Domitians being the final.

It was the Messianic Yahwists being slain in the Colloseum, not Christians.

To the Inconsistency Mongerers, I say: The Battleground is the Torah.

This is the Essence of the Book you do not like.

To make cogent and accurate arguments, you are compelled to spend: $50 American for a: Book of Yahweh from: yahweh.com

And then read it, yourself.

evilbible.com and Bushby and his ilk, Tsarion, Maxwell et.al. do you all dis-service.

Their information is D+ to C-

The quality of your arguments and laments would be improved immeasurably.

Etymology is important.

The Burden, Onus, is upon you Inconsistency Mongerers to improve your current levels of Scholarship so asto have a more accurate understanding of the Subject at hand.

Fell free to stop by the Book of Yahweh Thread, I will gladly help you get up to speed and clarify as many of your mis-conceptions that time permits.

No Cut & Pastes.

Just your own words.

Thank You & Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

john white

10-12-2007, 11:37 AM

I guess this is what you're referring to JW.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by this either. For me there is no need to look at creation in the way that you view it. However, if you can help me find a port of entry to your thoughts, I am happy to debate this, but alas I have no response to those particular words. :)

Actually I was refering to this post:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=209845&postcount=108

bigus_dickus

10-12-2007, 06:20 PM

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-12-2007, 06:47 PM

Cordial Felicitations Bigus Dickus:

I think the Point of this Thread is for the Anti-Bible, Yahweh, Yahshua Club, to have a Long, very Long, Piss Take.

No Book in History is more maligned, yet even in the least Scholarly Translations, one Thread runs continously from the Book of Genesis to the Book of Revelation: The Torah

The Ardor of the opposition to this Book is revealing.

Mis-Representations of this Book is rife on this Board. Everyone wants to Co-Opt Yahshua to Endorse their own Doctrine.

There is an extreme amount of Clarity in the Book and the Doctrines expounded in the First Five Books, are CONSISTENT all the ways to the end of the Book of Revelation.

The 'Piss-Takers' have been using the Book of Yahweh as a Urinal for over twenty pages.

Try doing that to their gods and doctrines. :D

I have invited all the Piss Takers to the Book of Yahweh Thread ;)

They should avail themselves of Information that is availiable to them.

The Book of Yahweh has been 'Commended for its excellent scholarship' by Professor Albert Kaufman of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

Examining this Text eliminates many of the 'Inconsistencies' that have them so Discombobulated.

They may still dislike Yahweh & His Torah and Teachers, but their laments would be more accurate.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

father ted

10-12-2007, 11:01 PM

what's the point of this thread?

the bible is a collection of books, written by various authors, so it is logical that there are supposed to be discrepancies all over it. not contradictions, because the main theme doesn't change, but discrepancies that can be viewed individually, analyzed and explained. that's what scholars do for a living!

now wtf is this thread about?

There are some mighty big discrepancies if you ask me. Why did they put together a series of books that had these "discrepancies" in it? There are "discrepancies" within each individual book as well. The main bulk of the answer lies in the fact that about 90% of the stories were archetypal.

titurel

10-12-2007, 11:16 PM

bigus_dickus

11-12-2007, 12:32 AM

Cordial Felicitations Bigus Dickus:

I think the Point of this Thread is for the Anti-Bible, Yahweh, Yahshua Club, to have a Long, very Long, Piss Take.

it must suck real bad to be an atheist or anti biblicalist or whatever they call themselves. why do they spend so much time on a book they don't like? it's insane, man, i don't wish that happen to you.

talk about contradictions.. take a David Icke's book, now what does it say. in summary, "you know people, this world is dominated by evil individuals who want to create a fascist state and they have no mercy and what's worse, they are also controlled by a bunch of evil alien species, so we're totally fucked". and then he says "oh and by the way, you're totally free 'cause this is illusion and if you are in love and righteousness you change the world, so bye now lad, cheers".

ok.. and then he quotes the bible and Jesus Christ, who by the way he says that he is a "matrix program", not even real, just made to control, as authority of the truth.

"in the beginning was the word and the word was sound"

well, guess what, that's the most common misunderstanding i have ever seen. the word logos does not mean word and word does not mean sound. so, not only he quotes the bible, he also gets it wrong. in which case it's not his fault, it's the translation of the text and the interpretation which is common to most people.

anyway, that dude abhie, who made the thread, he believes that Jesus was a mushroom. got that? it's what he really believes, it's a crazy world man, what can i say..

bigus_dickus

11-12-2007, 01:02 AM

There are some mighty big discrepancies if you ask me. Why did they put together a series of books that had these "discrepancies" in it? There are "discrepancies" within each individual book as well. The main bulk of the answer lies in the fact that about 90% of the stories were archetypal.

the way we write text evolves in proportion with our rest of evolution, such that of technology. if we interpret text as we do and have books on codex form, we inherited that from christianity. the first papyri did not have detailed explanations, they consisted of "anounement like" passages. also, "gospel" means good news and there's no "gospel of matthew", but "good news according to matthew". and it's not even matthew who writes it, it is some "eye witness". which means that anyone who that was, has made the natural mistakes that a human makes.

the biggest problem of the church, was to find authentic scriptures, but there aren't any. only fragments of text written in greek, but they are very few. so, because of the phenomenon of forgery, that is people writing their opinions and then signing with the name of an apostle, the church had to pick the most correct ones according to a few criteria. these criteria, who i am not going to mention now, were quite reasonable, because what they intended to do was not include books that the heretics of their time could use on their arguments against them.

now that times have changed, the heretics have found more stuff in there that make sense in current times, but did not make sense back then, or else they would have excluded them too, so they can keep bugging the christians.

it's a merry go round. what you fight you become. be alert, use brain!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_literature

abhie

11-12-2007, 06:42 AM

There are a lot of Web sites that list contradictions but when you look at them more closely, they're not contradictory at all. There are also many Web sites that solve 100's of apparent contradictions. Part of the problem is that people find an apparent contradiction on a Web page and they assume it must be so because a) it suits their prejudice, and b) it's on a Web page, therefore they come to the wrong conclusion because they haven't done their own thorough research. Here's one good Web site that solves apparent contradictions with well reasoned arguments, "Index of Biblical Contradictions"...

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm#INDEX

Logically speaking you could explain away EVERYTHING in this universe.

Contradictions poke holes in the credibility of the work.
A lot is questionable.

Why is it so hard for humans to set their spiritual goals based on what they have, and not based on reference to a collection of illogical and vague set of beliefs set down god knows when, by god knows who?

Can you at least try to create a spiritual belief system that works,..... no matter where, ......and when?

abhie

11-12-2007, 12:44 PM

Someone posted this same thread in GLP. (Not me)
A youtube link I found there:
Video on the contradictions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXvnz-p6Lm8

adimon

11-12-2007, 01:04 PM

Hey Adimon:

Here are some answers to questions regarding the Jewish perspective on Christian stuff... although I don't see your temple/usury question I don't think many religious Jews believe it actually happened as they don't believe in Gospel. Outreach Judaism q&a's (http://www.outreachjudaism.org/questions.html)

Regarding the story... I don't know... maybe they had no place to trade? Maybe it was an important transaction. Jesus was Jewish and spoke about fulfilling the Torah, so I don't know why everybody up and decided to start another mindfuck of a religion... there was already one in that area. There are plenty of articles online and offline that explain why the Christian Jesus was never the anointed one of Israel.

Just to be clear MF, my question was aimed at learning how Titurel, as a Christian could justify Jesus' actions - i.e. disrupting trade and killing a tree in order to make a point. He trashed the tables in the temple because, according to titurel, the traders were worshipping mammon. But how did he know that? What right does JC have to impose his own definition of what constitutes worship, onto these people. You are right, maybe they did have nowhere else to trade. Maybe they were running the equivalent of a poppy stall. Maybe they were offering a shoeshine - it isnt clear. But he stormed in there and trashed it, without talking first, reasonably. You know "I think what you're doing is wrong according to the 1st commandment, can you move on please?" or whatever. JC was behaving like a spoilt brat. Thanks for the links, will check them out.

No Cut & Pastes.

Sorry Dad, I will do as I please. I cut and paste because I have paper copies of the Torah and the Gospels and evilbible.com is IMO a decent site. I understand why YOU wouldn't like it, but I have an open mind, I don't BUY into any dogma, I examine it and decide for myself. Some of the points raised on the site are tenuous but some are spot on IMO.

I think the Point of this Thread is for the Anti-Bible, Yahweh, Yahshua Club, to have a Long, very Long, Piss Take.

It's called expressing our opinions.

The Ardor of the opposition to this Book is revealing.

Couldn't agree more. :)

The 'Piss-Takers' have been using the Book of Yahweh as a Urinal for over twenty pages.

You can stick a couple of noughts after that. :p

Try doing that to their gods and doctrines.

What might these be Snoops? Reason? Logic? Kant? Machiavelli? Mearsheimer?

The Book of Yahweh has been 'Commended for its excellent scholarship' by Professor Albert Kaufman of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

What a lovely unbiased piece of praise.

Can you at least try to create a spiritual belief system that works,..... no matter where, ......and when?

I like your thinking abhie :)

And finally...

The Bible (and all scripture) is "flawed".... ....because humans are "flawed"

Speak for yourself :D

But seriously, your article is very good indeed. My only response would be to say that although flawed, we can, as Nietzsche, and R.A.W and others have shown us, improve ourselves rather than wallow in the grief of our flaws. If we are to read something like 'Prometheus Rising' or 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra' we can learn far more about ourselves. These texts STRIVE to help us overcome our flaws, not make them the focus of a religion.

Let us imagine that in the vastness of the universe there is an order of intelligence far far vaster than our own, intelligence without limit, infinite intelligence, occupying all places simultaneously (which is a reasonably fair description of what the spiritually inclined consider "God" to be). Let us imagine one was that intelligence: how then could one communicate effectively with a being as limited and flawed as man?

I think just as you have defined God, my definition of myself as an atheist is I really don't ponder questions like this, because we will never know the answers. Great writing though JW, nice one. :)

john white

11-12-2007, 01:44 PM

But seriously, your article is very good indeed. My only response would be to say that although flawed, we can, as Nietzsche, and R.A.W and others have shown us, improve ourselves rather than wallow in the grief of our flaws. If we are to read something like 'Prometheus Rising' or 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra' we can learn far more about ourselves. These texts STRIVE to help us overcome our flaws, not make them the focus of a religion.

Well that is of course just about the best response!

And I totally agree, it is for us to make the best of ourselves and the opportunity to experience Life, whatever that experiance ultimately proves to be: moving to other dimensions or oblivion at the end, it makes little difference, it all comes down to acceptance and making the most of the now

My short article was made with the intention of inspiring people to imagine what it must be like to actually be a prophet and recieve a genuine message, what the problems and difficulties with that are, how that message can only be translated through the mind of the human individual involved and the culture of the times that person lives in

It is my view that a lot of the "contradictions" of scripture can be better understood and even resolved by doing so... and the "god behind the masks" comes closer into view: ultimately all spirituality unifies if we ourselves are aware and open enough

RAW is great btw, I first read his stuff over 20 years ago and it certainly had a profound effect on me as a ten: Which is red and which is green ;)

Also Tim Leary with "become your own programmer": fantastic stuff

Even in the late 60's (40 years ago now) it was becomming clear that to fight the external machine one must confront the inner robot

titurel

11-12-2007, 06:15 PM

Logically speaking you could explain away EVERYTHING in this universe.

Contradictions poke holes in the credibility of the work.
A lot is questionable.

Why is it so hard for humans to set their spiritual goals based on what they have, and not based on reference to a collection of illogical and vague set of beliefs set down god knows when, by god knows who?

Can you at least try to create a spiritual belief system that works,..... no matter where, ......and when?
First and foremost, it is important to build on what we have, I agree, but if you want to understand the world we live, you have share experiences and read what others have written, and that's the way round it should be!

titurel

11-12-2007, 06:20 PM

Just to be clear MF, my question was aimed at learning how Titurel, as a Christian could justify Jesus' actions - i.e. disrupting trade and killing a tree in order to make a point. He trashed the tables in the temple because, according to titurel, the traders were worshipping mammon. But how did he know that? What right does JC have to impose his own definition of what constitutes worship, onto these people. You are right, maybe they did have nowhere else to trade. Maybe they were running the equivalent of a poppy stall. Maybe they were offering a shoeshine - it isnt clear. But he stormed in there and trashed it, without talking first, reasonably. You know "I think what you're doing is wrong according to the 1st commandment, can you move on please?" or whatever. JC was behaving like a spoilt brat. Thanks for the links, will check them out.
It's very likely that on previous occaisions Christ did speak with those in the temple he disagreed with. I also see nothing wrong in what he did, despite what you've written. He upset the tables of scumbags who had turned a place, set aside for spiritual contemplation, into a place that had become a den of corruption.

titurel

11-12-2007, 06:26 PM

If we are to read something like 'Prometheus Rising' or 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra' we can learn far more about ourselves. These texts STRIVE to help us overcome our flaws, not make them the focus of a religion.
I'm not sure what religion you're talking about, probably Christendom's Churchianity, in which case I'd agree, but I don't see anywhere that Christ said we should not strive to overcome our flaws. Christ never said anything about making our flaws a focus of any religion. It's man that's done that and truned every piece of wisdom on its head!

adimon

13-12-2007, 12:21 PM

It's very likely that on previous occaisions Christ did speak with those in the temple he disagreed with. I also see nothing wrong in what he did, despite what you've written. He upset the tables of scumbags who had turned a place, set aside for spiritual contemplation, into a place that had become a den of corruption.

You're STILL missing the point. JC's actions are only acceptable if you are of the view that he, as the aggressor is allowed to define what constitutes worship of mammon. Personally, I don't see trade as worshipping mammon, since mammon is not real. The jewish traders probably felt the same, and so were NOT breaking 1st commandment, which simply makes JC a vandal.

I'm not sure what religion you're talking about, probably Christendom's Churchianity, in which case I'd agree, but I don't see anywhere that Christ said we should not strive to overcome our flaws. Christ never said anything about making our flaws a focus of any religion. It's man that's done that and truned every piece of wisdom on its head!

The idea of sin is what I'm referring to. An utterly ridiculous concept. Defining morality based on the values of 2000yrs ago! :D