101 contradictions in the Bible

[adimon]

I disagree, Christ saw that the usurers were abusing the purpose the temple was built for. The usurers were worshipping mammon and were turning the temple into a den of corruption.

You are STILL refusing to directly address the question. Allow me to rephrase it.

If you are playing golf and I come on to the course and decree that playing golf constitutes worship of the false god Faldo, and by doing so you have broken the first commandment, most people would agree that an important question that falls out of this is:-

"What gives this person the right to decide what constitutes worship of Faldo/Mammon and act accordingly?"

It's irrelevant to my point whether Jesus did it because it contradicted the purpose of the temple - you've said yourself that God never said to build temples - they are just man-made buildings, therefore he has not passed laws on what can and can't be done in the buildings. Therefore, the only justification for JC's VANDALISM is that the traders were breaking the first commandment. So what right has he got to force his definitions of Mammon/Faldo worship onto the Jewish people?

Why kill a fig-tree when it wouldn't bear fruit out of season? He asks a tree to do something for it, even though he is so retarded to realise that it's impossible. And when it won't he kills it out of spite. That's psychopathic behaviour IMO.

The word used in Hebrew for "day" is "yowm". According to Strong's dictionary, "yowm" can also mean a period of time, or an age. There are many places in the Old Testament where "yowm" is translated as something other than the word "day". God didn't lie because they did die in the age in which they ate of the tree. They lost their immortality.

Christianity can conveniently explain away pretty much any valid point raised against the Bible by talking about symbolism and interpretation - it's not getting you many new supporters though is it? :D

[titurel]

You are STILL refusing to directly address the question. Allow me to rephrase it.

If you are playing golf and I come on to the course and decree that playing golf constitutes worship of the false god Faldo, and by doing so you have broken the first commandment, most people would agree that an important question that falls out of this is:-

"What gives this person the right to decide what constitutes worship of Faldo/Mammon and act accordingly?"

It's irrelevant to my point whether Jesus did it because it contradicted the purpose of the temple - you've said yourself that God never said to build temples - they are just man-made buildings, therefore he has not passed laws on what can and can't be done in the buildings. Therefore, the only justification for JC's VANDALISM is that the traders were breaking the first commandment. So what right has he got to force his definitions of Mammon/Faldo worship onto the Jewish people?
Jesus Christ was right to upset the tables of the userers who were in the temple because they were using the temple for the wrong purposes and promoting greed and selfishness.

Why kill a fig-tree when it wouldn't bear fruit out of season? He asks a tree to do something for it, even though he is so retarded to realise that it's impossible. And when it won't he kills it out of spite. That's psychopathic behaviour IMO.
You completely misunderstand the significance of the fig tree. See here:

http://www.wcg.org/lit/bible/gospels/figtree.htm

Christianity can conveniently explain away pretty much any valid point raised against the Bible by talking about symbolism and interpretation - it's not getting you many new supporters though is it?
I don't support Churchianity and neither am I looking for supporters because religion and politics should never have been mixed together in the first place! People are becoming dissillusioned with politics and politicians in their droves, and more and more people are also beginning to see through the fraudulent state of the religion of money also!!!

[megafish33]

Jesus Christ was right to upset the tables of the userers who were in the temple because they were using the temple for the wrong purposes and promoting greed and selfishness.


Prove it.

[titurel]

Prove it.
A lot of people would acknowledge that usery is all about greed and selfish pursuit!

[razed1]

heres a NEWSFLASH!!!






there was no jesus

[titurel]

heres a NEWSFLASH!!!






there was no jesus
And here's a news flash for you!


There's plenty of evidence Jesus Christ existed...

[razed1]

ok so first can i just get what his actual NAME WAS???

[titurel]

ok so first can i just get what his actual NAME WAS???
Okay, let's go through all this again! We're talking about Jesus Christ.

[megafish33]

A lot of people would acknowledge that usery is all about greed and selfish pursuit!

I wasn't clear, sorry. I asked if you could prove that it happened. How do you know what they were doing? If it even happened? You just have one man who claimed to be the Jewish messiah no less, which has been proven wrong by many sources, who thought the temple was used for "wrong purposes." Has it ever crossed your mind that Gospel is incorrect, just as 97% of the translations of Hebrew scripture is incorrect? Jesus was cool, I'm not saying he wasn't. If he existed, he was probably a Buddhist. :p That's all fine and well.... but what right did he and his sect have to walk in and proclaim bs on all the exchanges? Also, if you read the Hebrew texts, there are many occasions when the god takes matters into his own hands, like a badass. He was powning people left and right, swallowing them whole in the earth(eg. unexplainable earthquakes) and whatnot. If what they were doing was really so bad wouldn't something truly badass occur as well? Magical reappearance of foreskins? Tsunami? Stock exchange going bearish? etc. etc.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

ok so first can i just get what his actual NAME WAS???


Cordial Felicitations Razed_1:

Yahshua = Yahweh is Salvation


yahweh.com


The Prophetic Word Magazine


12 - 2004


'The Truth about Messiah'


'In Search of the True Saviour' begins page 3.



Best Argument I have seen.


Your Query will be answered in full, to your satisfaction.



Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

[titurel]

I wasn't clear, sorry. I asked if you could prove that it happened. How do you know what they were doing? If it even happened? You just have one man who claimed to be the Jewish messiah no less, which has been proven wrong by many sources, who thought the temple was used for "wrong purposes." Has it ever crossed your mind that Gospel is incorrect, just as 97% of the translations of Hebrew scripture is incorrect? Jesus was cool, I'm not saying he wasn't. If he existed, he was probably a Buddhist. :p That's all fine and well.... but what right did he and his sect have to walk in and proclaim bs on all the exchanges? Also, if you read the Hebrew texts, there are many occasions when the god takes matters into his own hands, like a badass. He was powning people left and right, swallowing them whole in the earth(eg. unexplainable earthquakes) and whatnot. If what they were doing was really so bad wouldn't something truly badass occur as well? Magical reappearance of foreskins? Tsunami? Stock exchange going bearish? etc. etc.
As far as I know, know one has ever proved that Jesus Christ never existed, so I would have to disagree with your point of view. I also disagree that the books you cite are incorrect. Christ said he was the way. He didn't say that Buddha was the way. And in respect to God, what you're referring to is God's tough love on wicked nations. Fully justified, IMO.

[megafish33]

As far as I know, know one has ever proved that Jesus Christ never existed, so I would have to disagree with your point of view. I also disagree that the books you cite are incorrect. Christ said he was the way. He didn't say that Buddha was the way. And in respect to God, what you're referring to is God's tough love on wicked nations. Fully justified, IMO.

So? John down the street can say he's "the Way." Should I follow him if he happens to cure a disease as well(sorcery according to early Torah texts)? That argument of proving something "isn't" doesn't work that way. You must prove something "IS" for it to be evident. That is why what you believe is called a faith. Always was, and according to probability, always will be.

Amazon.com: Jesus and Buddha: The Parallel Sayings (Seastone Series) (9781569751695): Marcus Borg, Jack Kornfield: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41zlcfEPuRL.@@AMEPARAM@@41zlcfEPuRL

The Prophet Mohammad lived after Jesus and read his story, and I think the Tanakh as well. He said that he was the final prophet. Why don't you believe in his book?

Zoroastrianism?
Mazdaism?

So if you piss me off and I, being a god, switch up the amount of say.... oh I donno... iron in your food supplies, would that just be tough love? Tough love cause I can bring you back right? If everyone died in your village by metal toxicity would that be tough love? Burning by fire? Drowning by water?

[titurel]

So? John down the street can say he's "the Way." Should I follow him if he happens to cure a disease as well(sorcery according to early Torah texts)? That argument of proving something "isn't" doesn't work that way. You must prove something "IS" for it to be evident. That is why what you believe is called a faith. Always was, and according to probability, always will be.

Pick this up and look into it then get back to me. (http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Buddha-Parallel-Sayings-Seastone/dp/1569751692)

The Prophet Mohammad lived after Jesus and read his story, and I think the Tanakh as well. He said that he was the final prophet. Why don't you believe in his book?

Zoroastrianism?
Mazdaism?

So if you piss me off and I, being a god, switch up the amount of say.... oh I donno... iron in your food supplies, would that just be tough love? Tough love cause I can bring you back right? If everyone died in your village by metal toxicity would that be tough love? Burning by fire? Drowning by water?
No one is saying that anyone has to prove anything! In the broadest definition of the word, atheism is also a religion. It's a belief system that's based on faith in the hard scientific absence of proof! Atheism is based on faith!

Regarding tough love, it's a broad subject, but to begin with, God has the power to save a life, even after its apparent "death"! Death is only an illusion!

[megafish33]

No one is saying that anyone has to prove anything! In the broadest definition of the word, atheism is also a religion. It's a belief system that's based on faith in the hard scientific absence of proof! Atheism is based on faith!

Regarding tough love, it's a broad subject, but to begin with, God has the power to save a life, even after its apparent "death"! Death is only an illusion!


Again,

The Prophet Mohammad lived after Jesus and read his story, and I think the Tanakh as well. He said that he was the final prophet. Why don't you believe in his book?

Zoroastrianism?
Mazdaism?

What do you think of even earlier traditions? They came before the movement of Judaism, which as you know, came before Christianity. What about the "latest and greatest" Islam? Why aren't you Muslim? Can you prove Mohammad wrong with out proving Jesus wrong?
-----

Atheism isn't a faith, nor is it a religious belief. Get your facts straight. Atheism can be a philosophical view, I'll give you that. But it's not a religion, nor a faith. Atheism is based on the lack of empirical evidence of deities based on popular world religions. It does take a bit of science to understand it. When something isn't 100% proven wrong, it doesn't necessarily make it open to discussion. This is especially true for the existence of a god. There is a 99.99999999999999999999999% chance that there isn't one, so with that in mind we just say that it doesn't exist, unless we have further evidence. That "further evidence" is also, statistically improbable. So far.

Regarding "tough love," I'm glad you believe in that if it's a source of strength for you. Sometimes life can be easier if there is a "master plan" in the works. You aren't alone when you have faith in some type of a being who wants you to worship him/her.

[titurel]

Again,

The Prophet Mohammad lived after Jesus and read his story, and I think the Tanakh as well. He said that he was the final prophet. Why don't you believe in his book?

Zoroastrianism?
Mazdaism?

What do you think of even earlier traditions? They came before the movement of Judaism, which as you know, came before Christianity. What about the "latest and greatest" Islam? Why aren't you Muslim? Can you prove Mohammad wrong with out proving Jesus wrong?
-----

Atheism isn't a faith, nor is it a religious belief. Get your facts straight. Atheism can be a philosophical view, I'll give you that. But it's not a religion, nor a faith. Atheism is based on the lack of empirical evidence of deities based on popular world religions. It does take a bit of science to understand it. When something isn't 100% proven wrong, it doesn't necessarily make it open to discussion. This is especially true for the existence of a god. There is a 99.99999999999999999999999% chance that there isn't one, so with that in mind we just say that it doesn't exist, unless we have further evidence. That "further evidence" is also, statistically improbable. So far.

Regarding "tough love," I'm glad you believe in that if it's a source of strength for you. Sometimes life can be easier if there is a "master plan" in the works. You aren't alone when you have faith in some type of a being who wants you to worship him/her.
It don't take a linear, oldest is best attitude to history because life is not linear but dynamic, especially since there are fallen angels and serpents dispensing their knowledge to the highest priests of humanity, such as in Roman Catholicism, Zionism, and even behind politics. I've looked at the whole picture, and not at just the Bible, and I can see that the Bible is an accurate reflection of the world, past, present and future. I've studied the beliefs of the illuminati and they hate God. Interestingly, they don't hate Mohammed or Krishna, they just hate God and like the Reptilian serpent and his demons, they accuse God of being a liar.

Atheism is the belief there is no God. It's not based on scientifically proven fact. It's a belief based on faith. The biggest religion in the world today is the religion of the golden calf and love of money.

[razed1]

Cordial Felicitations Razed_1:

Yahshua = Yahweh is Salvation


yahweh.com


The Prophetic Word Magazine


12 - 2004


'The Truth about Messiah'


'In Search of the True Saviour' begins page 3.



Best Argument I have seen.


Your Query will be answered in full, to your satisfaction.



Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

youre totally off the marker

[razed1]

Okay, let's go through all this again! We're talking about Jesus Christ.

and you

you know that christ means OIL?? kristos??? is it a conincidence that teh hindoo version of the sun-god, his name is KRISHna??? just like KHRISHt???

you need to do some fucken research, im gettin sick of seeing your posts saturate this forum with dogma cooked by the very beast you think you are fighting

when will u ppl learn

[titurel]

Regarding "tough love," I'm glad you believe in that if it's a source of strength for you. Sometimes life can be easier if there is a "master plan" in the works. You aren't alone when you have faith in some type of a being who wants you to worship him/her.
I have no problems with tough love in conjunction with justice. The illuminati are about to be judged by God, and they are charged with trying to hijack human destiny away from God.

[titurel]

and you

you know that christ means OIL?? kristos??? is it a conincidence that teh hindoo version of the sun-god, his name is KRISHna??? just like KHRISHt???
Big deal! Many of Satan's fallen angels transformed themselves into divine deities and Krishna is one of them. It's interesting that the illuminati and Freemasonry embraces Krishna, but from their inner writings, one discovers they reserve their hatred only towards the God of the Bible!

[megafish33]

It don't take a linear, oldest is best attitude to history because life is not linear but dynamic, especially since there are fallen angels and serpents dispensing their knowledge to the highest priests of humanity, such as in Roman Catholicism, Zionism, and even behind politics. I've looked at the whole picture, and not at just the Bible, and I can see that the Bible is an accurate reflection of the world, past, present and future. I've studied the beliefs of the illuminati and they hate God. Interestingly, they don't hate Mohammed or Krishna, they just hate God and like the Reptilian serpent and his demons, they accuse God of being a liar.

Atheism is the belief there is no God. It's not based on scientifically proven fact. It's a belief based on faith. The biggest religion in the world today is the religion of the golden calf and love of money.

And if Moses and Jesus were fallen angels or "serpents?" I'll have to say the Bible, when properly read, is an accurate story of meditations, attempts of alchemical formulations, moral philosophies, and attempts of prophecy, all interwoven in a tale to uplift the poor in ancient Israelite and Roman Palestinian society.

What of the dynamic and large movement that is Islam? It doesn't present an accurate reflection of the world and it's history to you? Why or why not?

You've studied the beliefs of the Illuminati? Really? What materials have you studied? Meditations? Frames? Works?

It seems like you believe in the pop culture version of the illuminated. Still. Even though we're almost in 2008. The majority of people that associate themselves with that movement and evolution are republican(not talking about US political party) freethinkers who push for separation of Church and State, individual rights, and the treatment of women as intellectual equals. Some of them are religious and Christian. What proof do you have that the Illuminati "hates God?" And what proof do you have that they love Mo' and Krishna?

Nice discussion, thanks for replying!

[titurel]

And if Moses and Jesus were fallen angels or "serpents?" I'll have to say the Bible, when properly read, is an accurate story of meditations, attempts of alchemical formulations, moral philosophies, and attempts of prophecy, all interwoven in a tale to uplift the poor in ancient Israelite and Roman Palestinian society.

What of the dynamic and large movement that is Islam? It doesn't present an accurate reflection of the world and it's history to you? Why or why not?

You've studied the beliefs of the Illuminati? Really? What materials have you studied? Meditations? Frames? Works?

It seems like you believe in the pop culture version of the illuminated. Still. Even though we're almost in 2008. The majority of people that associate themselves with that movement and evolution are republican(not talking about US political party) freethinkers who push for separation of Church and State, individual rights, and the treatment of women as intellectual equals. Some of them are religious and Christian. What proof do you have that the Illuminati "hates God?" And what proof do you have that they love Mo' and Krishna?

Nice discussion, thanks for replying!
What the illuminati believe is no longer the big secret that it once was, especially since Icke's "the Biggest Secret" hit the book shelves, not to mention the countless other books, radio interviews and videos on the subject. Some project a pop illuminati view, such as Dan Brown, etc., but there are many, such as the late William Cooper who had an excellent grasp on the bigger picture surrounding the illuminati... and they are doomed! They worship the Dragon and hate God... trying to hijack human destiny away from God, which is precisely what they're up to. They believe they are gods, and have the right to own us all and force us into their "new" world order. It's actually the old order boys trying to usher something in as new, but it's still the same old Luciferian networked boys!

[razed1]

you have mental problems

i cant understand why you are even on the these forums,

[titurel]

you have mental problems

i cant understand why you are even on the these forums,
If you can't express reason, perhaps you should worry about having mental problems?

[megafish33]

What the illuminati believe is no longer the big secret that it once was, especially since Icke's "the Biggest Secret" hit the book shelves, not to mention the countless other books, radio interviews and videos on the subject. Some project a pop illuminati view, such as Dan Brown, etc....

LOL I wasn't talking about Dan Brown...

[titurel]

LOL I wasn't talking about Dan Brown...
LOOL, but you have to admit, Dan Brown is rather 'pop'. He has the public X-Factor.

[megafish33]

LOOL, but you have to admit, Dan Brown is rather 'pop'. He has the public X-Factor.

...which is closer to the theory of the Illuminati that you believe in than other theories, which are less popular, like the one I presented.

[aizzy]

God makes Adam and Lilith.


Lilith (Hebrew לילית) is a mythological female Mesopotamian storm demon associated with wind and was thought to be a bearer of disease, illness, and death.-=-In Greek mythology, Pandora was the first woman on earth. Zeus ordered Hephaestus, the god of craftsmanship, to create her and he did, using water and earth. The gods endowed her with many talents; Aphrodite gave her beauty, Apollo music, Hermes persuasion, and so forth. Hence her name: Pandora, "all-gifted"-=-Pandora's "box" is a modern invention going back only as far as Erasmus. According to Hesiod, the evils of all men were shut up in a storage jar (pithos) buried in the ground. This is connected by some with the Athenian festival of pithoigia, - when the great vats (pithoi) of new wine were opened. Perhaps that's really where all mankind's troubles spring from! She, as the first woman, created after man, is sometimes compared to Eve in Hebrew myth. Pandora was originally a title of the goddess Rhea (the name means all gifts)-=-Rhea was closely identified with the Anatolian mother-goddess KYBELE (or Cybele). They were both depicted as matronly women, usually wearing a turret crown, and attended by lions.-=-Originally a Phrygian goddess, Cybele (Greek: Κυβέλη) was a deification of the Earth Mother who was worshipped in Anatolia from Neolithic times. As with Gaia (the "Earth") or her Minoan equivalent Rhea, Cybele embodies the fertile Earth, a goddess of caverns and mountains, walls and fortresses, nature, wild animals (especially lions and bees).:confused::confused::confused:
-=-

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

youre totally off the marker


Cordial Felicitations Razed_1:

How so?


Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

[titurel]

...which is closer to the theory of the Illuminati that you believe in than other theories, which are less popular, like the one I presented.
No, I do not subscribe to Dan Brown type 'pop' perspectives. You're totally wrong!

[megafish33]

No, I do not subscribe to Dan Brown type 'pop' perspectives. You're totally wrong!

So the conclusion you've come to hasn't been influenced by all of those researchers? :rolleyes:

What the illuminati believe is no longer the big secret that it once was...

Your view is very popular, trust me... lol

[titurel]

So the conclusion you've come to hasn't been influenced by all of those researchers? :rolleyes:

What the illuminati believe is no longer the big secret that it once was...

Your view is very popular, trust me... lol
It's certainly true that more and more people are beginning to understand that the cabal behind big governemnt, business and organised religions, follow the Reptilian the NWO agenda.

[adimon]

The usurers were worshipping mammon and were turning the temple into a den of corruption.

You're worshipping mammon. Someone should come and fuck with your shit and kill all your fruit trees. Jesus told me. :D

And here's a news flash for you! There's plenty of evidence Jesus Christ existed...

Such as?

Lilith (Hebrew לילית) is a mythological female Mesopotamian storm demon associated with wind and was thought to be a bearer of disease, illness, and death.-
-=-

She also appears in some Jewish texts.

It's certainly true that more and more people are beginning to understand that the cabal behind big governemnt, business and organised religions, follow the Reptilian the NWO agenda.

So you believe in a 'man in the sky' AND reptiles controlling the world, and you still bitch at us atheists about proof! :D

[titurel]

You're worshipping mammon. Someone should come and fuck with your shit and kill all your fruit trees. Jesus told me.
You obviously talk a lot of jibberish...

So you believe in a 'man in the sky' AND reptiles controlling the world, and you still bitch at us atheists about proof!
I don't believe in a 'man in the sky' - you haven't got past immature Sunday School ways of thinking - typical of arrogant yuppie atheists like you, but big politics is following the Reptilian NWO agenda.

[megafish33]

Explain to me how everything you have come to know about your god, you know, the one you worship, isn't an illusion? How is that not part of the reptilian agenda you believe in? Why so sure in yourself?

[phildee3]

Explain to me how everything you have come to know about your god, you know, the one you worship, isn't an illusion? How is that not part of the reptilian agenda you believe in? Why so sure in yourself?

For the same reason that you are so sure of yourself that this forum exists.
Sense perception.

We all have a spiritual "eye" with which to see these things.
For some, it is open; for others, closed.

[octopusrex]

There is plenty of lay evidence of the existance of Jesus.

[megafish33]

For the same reason that you are so sure of yourself that this forum exists.
Sense perception.

We all have a spiritual "eye" with which to see these things.
For some, it is open; for others, closed.

Yeah but you're being presumptuous with respect to my spiritual eye...You presume that if others doing believe in god they have no spiritual eye. Maybe I define mine a little different, ever thought of that?

To say that sense perception lead you to believe in god also sounds presumptuous to me.

Do you feel one day I can have the same experience as the rest of you? How can you possibly perceive a god? If she/he was really around I would imagine it wouldn't be all smoke and mirrors but you would actually have a "godsense" or something. I'm not saying it's impossible, but to me it just seems like humans have been drawing quick conclusions for the longest time.

[phildee3]

Yeah but you're being presumptuous with respect to my spiritual eye...You presume that if others doing believe in god they have no spiritual eye. Maybe I define mine a little different, ever thought of that?

Presuming that you meant to type "don't" instead of "doing" :) , please re-read my posting. It says "all have one." Some are open some are not.

To say that sense perception lead you to believe in god also sounds presumptuous to me.

I don't "believe" in God. I know God; - through direct perception using a higher sense which is more dependable than the five "lower" senses.

Do you feel one day I can have the same experience as the rest of you?

Yes (but there is no "rest of us"; there is only us, my friend!)

How can you possibly perceive a god?

By opening of the eye (I).

If she/he was really around I would imagine it wouldn't be all smoke and mirrors but you would actually have a "godsense" or something.

That's it.
Well said!

Now...
you "imagine."
Good, you're getting it.

Image-ination is not what we have been taught (ie. "non reality").

It is that which, once developed, becomes the open eye.

[phildee3]

...and yes, there are many, many contradictions in the Bible;
of course, - spirituality is paradoxical by nature.

Do not think you can use the Bible as a path to God.
You can only find God through the opening of the I.
The Bible is a useful tool for verifying what you now see.
Your own, personal discipline is the path.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Cordial Felicitations Gentlepeople:

Your Opinion: if any: of the:


Encyclopedia Judaica


It is Sourced, Vetted, Peer-Reviewed and Consensus Scholarship


A reliable source of Information?


ENCYCLOPEDIA JUDAICA

VOLUME 5, Page 509


Jesus and His first Disciples. As has been indicated before, the teaching and activity of Jesus cannot be properly describe under the heading Christianity.

There is no VALID REASON for doubting His Historical Reality or assuming Him to be a purely mythical figure.


Anybody have an Opinion of the Opinion of above quote?


Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

[phildee3]

Quote:
"Jesus and His first Disciples. As has been indicated before, the teaching and activity of Jesus cannot be properly describe under the heading Christianity.

There is no VALID REASON for doubting His Historical Reality or assuming Him to be a purely mythical figure."



Anybody have an Opinion of the Opinion of above quote?

I think the first one is nonsense.
I think the second one is reasonable.

Jesus is the historical figure,
Christ, the mythological one.

The question is,
...when were these two beings fused into one (or were they?),
at conception/birth or at the baptism/anointing?

[optimus pigpot]

I think the first one is nonsense.
I think the second one is reasonable.

Jesus is the historical figure,
Christ, the mythological one.

The question is,
...when were these two beings fused into one (or were they?),
at conception/birth or at the baptism/anointing?

La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......La, la, la, la , la, la, la.......

[megafish33]

...and yes, there are many, many contradictions in the Bible;
of course, - spirituality is paradoxical by nature.

Do not think you can use the Bible as a path to God.
You can only find God through the opening of the I.
The Bible is a useful tool for verifying what you now see.
Your own, personal discipline is the path.

I can dig it. :cool: I just don't know why the word "God" must be used... I suppose the English language just trips us up lol

I can agree with personal discipline being one's path. It seems to always be a source of strength and hope for me. "If I have discipline then surely," I think, "others might as well." Or at least, they have the capacity for it. And yes, it is a paradox... personal discipline can be used to harm others, which I am against, since I am for liberty.

[adimon]

You're worshipping mammon. Someone should come and fuck with your shit and kill all your fruit trees. Jesus told me. :D

You obviously talk a lot of jibberish...

Funny you should describe it as that - because the little parody I did there is exactly what Jesus 'The Vandal' Christ did in the Book of Mark - e.g. Judged and Condemned based on ego and opinion.

I don't believe in a 'man in the sky' - you haven't got past immature Sunday School ways of thinking - typical of arrogant yuppie atheists like you, but big politics is following the Reptilian NWO agenda.

This was also a joke Titurel. I asked you before to define god and have your definition saved on my PC. Calm down :D

Explain to me how everything you have come to know about your god, you know, the one you worship, isn't an illusion? How is that not part of the reptilian agenda you believe in? Why so sure in yourself?

Because they have

http://www.shetenhelm.com/camp/Jesus-Inside.gif

them I guess.

There is plenty of lay evidence of the existance of Jesus.

Such as? :confused:

Anybody have an Opinion of the Opinion of above quote?

Yup, my opinion is that there is NO evidence that JC existed.

I think the first one is nonsense.


How selective of you. ;)

[megafish33]

LOL! I want that JesusInside slapped on my PC! Then any potential BSODs would be divine intervention...

[phildee3]

I can dig it. :cool: I just don't know why the word "God" must be used... I suppose the English language just trips us up lol


It's not the language that trips us up but the misuse of it by double-speak, - redefining words to con people.

I often use "the all-that-is" instead of "God."

[titurel]

Yup, my opinion is that there is NO evidence that JC existed.
Even though Tacitus didn't write his Annals until around 109 C.E., having been born in 64 C.E., he would have been surrounded by people, in his younger years, who were alive when Jesus lived. If Jesus never existed, I'm sure this anti-Christian historian, Tacitus, would've pounced on this issue and, along with other anti-Christian historians, would've written copious amounts on the fraud or hoax but not a single jot or iota from any of them - in fact the opposite is the case because there are accounts by Josephus and more convincingly by Tacitus, on Jesus' existence and this is one reason, apart from others, why a lot of people accept Jesus existed.

There's no solid reason for doubting the Tacitus quote which is expressly anti-Christian so is unlikely to be a forgery. Sure, a large number of doubts have been raised over the quote BUT for every doubt there is a strong counter argument and I also recall reading somewhere Spinoza liked Tacitus because of his anti-Jewish and anti-Christian bias.

There are also the complete absence of any accounts questioning why 1000's of followers of Jesus were prepared to be persecuted, some even being thrown to the lions by Nero. Many of the apostles were publicly executed all over the region by Roman officials and all these apostles died in the belief of the man whom they believed to be the man Jesus.

Many disciples of Jesus who went to their deaths would have had parents, uncles and grandparents who lived in Jesus' time. If Jesus never existed, these older relatives would've told their sons and daughters Jesus never existed and, as a result, these sons and daughters wouldn't have sacrificed their lives through methods most barbarous, if they'd had any doubts, at all, about the existence of the man whom they believed was crucified at Golgotha and whom they believed was the Son of God.

It defies both common sense and the evidence of history that anyone, let the Apostles and 1,000's of disciples, would persist in proclaiming a lie when they could walk away by admitting that it was a fraud. History reveals not one of these men, who knew Jesus personally, ever denied their testimony about Him despite the threat and reality of imminent death. This proves to any fair-minded observer that these men possessed an absolute unshakable personal knowledge about the truth of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

On the other hand, if these people were dying for a mythological figure, this would've have been an unprecedented event because of its scale. It would be too remarkable that no historians, even anti-Christian historerans, like Spinoza, would not have recorded that so many people were prepared to die for a figure who was merely mythological.

The reason why Jesus was crucified, in the first place, was because the crowds couldn't stomach Jesus' teachings. He brought a completely new light into the world, a light of love and peace and a better world to come. Previously, there were no writings whatsoever that described, in such detail, what Jesus' message was about. There were no detailed written discourses on spirituality, love, compassion and salvation to the same extent and depth as what was written about regarding Jesus' teachings and message, not even from philosophers such as Plato or previous Pagan 'Messiahs', such as Krishna or Horus. What made Jesus new and interesting to listen to, were his discourses on redemption and the news of his coming Kingdom, as promised in the opening lines of his Lord's Prayer. In addition to all of this, the birth and arrival of Jesus fulfilled a large number of prophecies in the Old Testament regarding his birth and mission, etc.

All these things are what made Jesus unique and separate to previous Messiahs and these unique aspects are what made him unpopular with large swathes of people in the Jerusalem region, even to the extent they demanded his death and there is still today a dislike and even hatred of what the man Jesus stood for, hence the clamour amongst many to prove he never existed. Strange how this denial of his life has only come about in comparatively more recent times! I've been searching and the earliest references I can find, denying the existence of Jesus, are barely less than a century old!

Conspiracy?

The fact these NT writings about Jesus and his words are unique also points directly to the fact Jesus existed. No one human or even more unbelievable a group of humans, could've conspired to weave such a complex and fully integrated account of a fictional character, especially when all the writings of the NT are so dynamic that not only do they contain historical detail but details which dovetail perfectly into OT writings and prophecies concerning the arrival of the man Jesus in the flesh but also weave a complex set of prophecies that concern us in the present day.

Paul and the Historical Christ

Paul gave "fleshy details" of Jesus' life:

"Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God — the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. " - Romans 1:1-4

There you have it - there's no way a mytholgical Jesus could've been notably human and "a descendant of David"!

In Galatians, Paul discusses his interaction with Peter and James, two of Jesus' primary disciples:

"Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter and stayed with him fifteen days. I saw none of the other apostles — only James, the Lord's brother. I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie." - Galations 1:18-19

In Corinthians too, Paul testifies to Jesus in the flesh:

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born." - 1 Corinthians 15:3-8

Counterfeit Pagan Christs

Some say Jesus couldn't have existed because there were previous "Christs" around, with similar life stories to Jesus. They therefore conclude, prematurely, Jesus must have been a myth, but Jesus was in existence since the beginning of time, long before his incarnation on earth:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it." - John 1

Jesus was the word of God, the logos incarnate and everything issued out of him from the beginning of time, so why should it be a surprise echoes of him and his incarnation into flesh appear all over the place, in the form of the numerous Pagan Christs, even before his very birth? Only a limited temporal outlook (a scientific approach), should discount the possibility that in the most important aspects, these similarities that exist elsewhere are reflections of Jesus and not vice-versa, whenever they happened.

"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it." - Isaiah 55:9-11

-

In addition to accepting Jesus' once physical existence, it's equally important to be aware of the spiritual implications of the message he brought... to have Gnosis that leads to the sublimation of the physical with the spiritual, in order that, ultimately, we become purely spiritual beings in complete harmony with God's will, as Jesus went on before us, to become, once again, a purely spiritual and Divine reflection of God.

The reason why it's important to accept Jesus existed, is because by him becoming spirit in the body, Jesus could redeem the curse of sin and open up the path for mankind's spiritual ascent out of physical bondage. Additionally, because he experienced what it was to be a man, he can more strongly identify with our human problems and needs, especially when he takes up office as Princely Ruler over his coming Millennium of Peace, which he prophesied about and which comes about after the Serpent ruler of this world is set aside, after Armageddon.

Jesus was a great man on earth with a powerful message that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable and it's for this reason why I believe many are anxious to come to the conclusion he never existed, for much the same, if not so drastic reasons why, 2,000 years ago, the crowds conspired to have him crucified, as if he never existed.

[titurel]

Funny you should describe it as that - because the little parody I did there is exactly what Jesus 'The Vandal' Christ did in the Book of Mark - e.g. Judged and Condemned based on ego and opinion.
It's you, an arrogant atheist, who are judging, based on your ego and opinion.

[guyblokeman]

, Jesus could redeem the curse of sin .

Well its been 2000yrs + and sin is almost everywhere. Everyone still pays for their sins: What you give out, you get back.
Jesus wasnt the only son of God, this is where the Bible is fallicious.

We`re all sons of God, and we all have the Christ seed within us, this is what Jesus taught...

[phildee3]

We`re all sons of God, and we all have the Christ seed within us, this is what Jesus taught...

Amen to that, bro!!!

And true Christianity, imo, is to germinate and cultivate that seed.

[titurel]

Well its been 2000yrs + and sin is almost everywhere. Everyone still pays for their sins: What you give out, you get back.
Jesus wasnt the only son of God, this is where the Bible is fallicious.

We`re all sons of God, and we all have the Christ seed within us, this is what Jesus taught...
We'll just have to agree to disagree!

[phildee3]

Yup, my opinion is that there is NO evidence that JC existed.



Yup, and NO evidence that he didn't.

End of argument.

What I want to know is why the hell it matters, why y'all are getting so stirred up about it.
It's a fantastic story.
And weather or not it's historical, it's still great mythology.
And mythology has it's own reality.
(and is, arguably, more "real" than history).

[optimus pigpot]

[QUOTE=phildee3;220015]Yup, and NO evidence that he didn't.

What I want to know is why the hell it matters, why y'all are getting so stirred up about it. Because it's crap you keep peddling!!
It's a fantastic story. No it's not!!
And weather or not it's historical, it's still great mythology. No it's not!!!!
And mythology has it's own reality. No it doesn't!!!!
(and is, arguably, more "real" than history).WHAT?????QUOTE]

Crap!!!!!

[phildee3]

it's crap you keep peddling!!



I'm not peddling anything.

It's free.

Take it or leave it.