The shape of our near future

[john white]

"The shape of our near future"

Is the collapse of the illusion

That the people are in control

To be replaced with the actuality

Of the people taking control



Please discuss...

[Anders Lindman]

Politicians have control by changing laws. The horrible thing is that in our so-called democratic societies, politicians can create new laws and ALL people in that society must obey every new law. For example, let's say that politicians create a law that says that all citizens must be microchipped. Maybe they can't do that just yet, but with a few stepping stones like compulsory ID cards with biometrics and RFID chip, and some new terrorist attacks, school shootings etc such law can indeed become a reality.

OR, people in positions of power can make the cashless society become a reality and make sure that only an implanted microchip will be available as a means of payment. Then the microchip would in practice be inevitable even without any new law.

So it's important to fiercely fight such trends.

[adimon]

Its a great idea. I cant see how you can get enough of the general public onside though. Any ideas?

I say reform is better than revolution, and getting more people (esp young people) active in politics - local, national and international - is the best way forward. Get rid of these Common Purpose types, and have a fumagation of the stale old closet of the current political situation.

More young people having a say in their society. By young I mean 18-30s. There are very few of these people in politics.

[adimon]

Politicians have control by changing laws. The horrible thing is that in our so-called democratic societies, politicians can create new laws and ALL people in that society must obey the new law. For example, let's say that politicians create a law that says that all citizens must be microchipped. Maybe they can't do that just yet, but with a few stepping stones like compulsory ID cards with biometrics and RFID chip, and some new terrorist attacks, school shootings etc such law can indeed become a reality.

OR, people in positions of power can make the cashless society become a reality and make sure that only an implanted microchip will be available as a means of payment. Then the microchip would in practice be inevitable even without any new law.

So it's important to fiercely fight such trends.

The people who set the laws are the people that got voted into power. Everyone is equally responsible. If you dont want them, vote them out. Look whats happening in Australia.

[Anders Lindman]

The people who set the laws are the people that got voted into power. Everyone is equally responsible. If you dont want them, vote them out. Look whats happening in Australia.

A few more terrorist attacks and school shootings and all politicians will start writing laws for a compulsory microchipping, regardless who is voted in or out. And through mass media people can easily be indoctrinated to see microchipping as a necessary and good thing.

And if a cashless society is introduced, microchipping may not even need a new law. Simply by making implanted microchips the only means of payment, they will achieve the same thing even without any new law.

[bigus_dickus]

what exactly are people supposed to take control of?

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Cordial Felicitations:


"......few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others." Edward Abbey


Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

[greenleaf]

If this is the Age of Aquarius entering the 5th night, isn't that supposed to mean the all truths will now be seen, in effect, all the BS we have been subject to over our histories will be corrected and governments won't be able to easily pull the wool over the sheeples eyes.

from a saying David uses in one of his books (Children Of The Matrix) taken from George Orwell 1984' "He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future."
So we the people (corny i know!) will know our past so be able to control our futures.

5 other George Orwell quotes:#
1. "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
2. "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."
3. "Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."
4. "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others."
5. "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever."

other Time quotes:
1. "It is only the modern that ever becomes old-fashioned."
2. "As if you could kill time without injuring eternity."
3. "Neither a wise man nor a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him."
4. "Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils."

[john white]

......few men are wise enough to rule themselves

It may never be all men, but as soon as more men master this wisdom
we have a source of positive change

Freedom is just the thickness of a thought away

But the act of percieving Freedom

Leads to realising we have to own Freedom

[john white]

Just want to say:

Great replies, please keep 'em coming everyone, plenty of material for a great thread :)

Ty

[intruder]

"any man can stand a little adversity. A true test of his character is to give him power."
-a dead president

[woghd]

"Know your enemy and know yourself."

"Once a mind has expanded, it will never again fit into the same small space it once did."

Archangel

[cruise4]

So we have a dictatorship that beens going since the dawn of time along with a society that has been blighted by their rule, education distorted, science distorted, crimes galore, murder, and 1000 other issues and you suggest 'reform'??? Reform what???

Its REVOLUTION - the only question is peaceful (preferred) or violent (will occur).

The PEOPLE must take full control this time and I will die to help that agenda.

[adimon]

So we have a dictatorship that beens going since the dawn of time along with a society that has been blighted by their rule, education distorted, science distorted, crimes galore, murder, and 1000 other issues and you suggest 'reform'??? Reform what???

Its REVOLUTION - the only question is peaceful (preferred) or violent (will occur).

The PEOPLE must take full control this time and I will die to help that agenda.

Revolution is not possible without the use of force. But if you use force, you become the dictator. You might argue that if you got 80% of the UK population to 'wake up' and join in the revolution, that it would be successful. But how will you do this? What about the rest of Europe? Or the world? What about the Army which is loyal to the Queen? How will you overcome these things?

As for reforming what: reform parliament itself, reform health, education, law and order, penal system, judiciary, structure and apparatus of government decentralisation (not devolution) etc etc

We'll probably have to agree to disagree I guess.

[titurel]

what exactly are people supposed to take control of?
Good question, but John didn't say!

[malvern]

Revolution is not possible without the use of force.

revolution is possible without force...... wars are not possible without force......... if everyone said no, no, at the same time, there would not be any force, but the force of the people and peace.

to right john, people have to take control of there own lifes ...stand up for what is the right thinks and not be puppets to any system that lies to get control..


freedom belongs to the grandchildren, we are just the caretakers :)

[mightiswrong]

Control over their destiny.

The government and their system is only a barrier if we allow it to be. To recognise them as a force more powerful then ourselves would be a mistake. We just need to get on with creating the world we want. Tune the bastards out. They are not on our wave length. They will get left behind.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Ladies & Gentlemen:

"There is a Time when the operation of the MACHINE becomes so odious, makes you so sick at Heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your Bodies upon the Gears and upon the Wheels, upon the Levers, upon all the Apparatus, and you've got to make it STOP!


And you've got to indicate to the People who Run IT, the People who Own IT, that UNLESS you're FREE, the MACHINE will be PREVENTED from WORKING at all!"



Mario Savio


Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus



Addendum: A Primary Position for anyone would be: As Debt Free as possible. This provides Room to Manouver.

RePrioritize Allocation of Personal Resources

[titurel]

revolution is possible without force...... wars are not possible without force......... if everyone said no, no, at the same time, there would not be any force, but the force of the people and peace.

to right john, people have to take control of there own lifes ...stand up for what is the right thinks and not be puppets to any system that lies to get control..


freedom belongs to the grandchildren, we are just the caretakers :)
And who is going to stop those who only want to kill and enslave, if there is a bloody revolution to unseat all governments worldwide?

[king]

remove the LAW and you will remove the power of PTBs.

and by LAW I mean the unnatural laws that are imposed on us by PTBs. LAW is not designed to protect us, but to take away from us.

the only law should be that of nature and creation.

[titurel]

remove the LAW and you will remove the power of PTBs.

and by LAW I mean the unnatural laws that are imposed on us by PTBs. LAW is not designed to protect us, but to take away from us.

the only law should be that of nature and creation.
And how do you deal with people who break common sense laws, like murder, if you aabolish the law? There would be a very bloody and sick anarchy in all major cities if government were defeated. People would still be fighting over beliefs on the streets, just like they do on this forum - only, it would be much worse because the streets would have no moderators like this forum has!

[mightiswrong]

And how do you deal with people who break common sense laws, like murder, if you aabolish the law? There would be a very bloody and sick anarchy in all major cities if government were defeated. People would still be fighting over beliefs on the streets, just like they do on this forum - only, it would be much worse because the streets would have no moderators like this forum has!

There is no evidence for that what so ever.

[titurel]

There is no evidence for that what so ever.
So how are you going to defeat the government?

How are you going to stop one tribe fighting another?

What are you going to do with all the murderers, paedophiles, liars and thieves, if you have no form of governance?

Just a few questions, if you don't mind answering!

[adimon]

revolution is possible without force.

Perhaps you could explain, with reference to precedents if applicable?

the only law should be that of nature and creation.

Nature is violent.

There is no evidence for that what so ever.

Plenty of evidence. Looting, raping and pillaging in nearly ever situation where there is an absence of government, throughout the 20th century and long before.

[king]

And how do you deal with people who break common sense laws, like murder, if you aabolish the law? There would be a very bloody and sick anarchy in all major cities if government were defeated. People would still be fighting over beliefs on the streets, just like they do on this forum - only, it would be much worse because the streets would have no moderators like this forum has!

that is true and that is exactly the problem of trying to remove the LAW in a society that is not living in harmony.
so, what is the solution?

only AFTER SHTF will people be able to see importance of being unselfish, helping others, sharing with others, having respect and love for others and being in service to others.

only then they can begin to live with the laws of the nature.

because man has gone away from nature and creation -- we have the problems that we have.

[king]

Nature is violent.



yes, but nature is also a great equalizer

if we stayed with the nature of things -- we would not feel the brunt of nature.

[titurel]

that is true and that is exactly the problem of trying to remove the LAW in a society that is not living in harmony.
so, what is the solution?

only AFTER SHTF will people be able to see importance of being unselfish, helping others, sharing with others, having respect and love for others and being in service to others.

only then they can begin to live with the laws of the nature.

because man has gone away from nature and creation -- we have the problems that we have.
So it's going to be an Armageddon scenario, in which those who don't want to repent are thrown into some kind of abyss and the good people will inherit the earth?

[ichi wa zen]

The Future?

We stop letting "them" manipulate our destiny and take destiny in our own hands!

Yes i said it, men can control their own destiny, dont walk away from your responsibility, we can and will change our destiny :D

[titurel]

The Future?

We stop letting "them" manipulate our destiny and take destiny in our own hands!

Yes i said it, men can control their own destiny, dont walk away from your responsibility, we can and will change our destiny :D
How? You didn't say how?

Fluffy comments sound nice but you have to put some meat on the bone for others to chew on!

[adimon]

only AFTER SHTF will people be able to see importance of being unselfish, helping others, sharing with others, having respect and love for others and being in service to others.

This is what Pol Pot said.

What form do you think SHTF will take? Cuz if its world war on a scale never before seen - e.g. NATO v China v Russia v India - there's every chance that nukes will become a possibility. The kind of civilisation that gets rebuilt from that (if any at all) noone can predict. But I dont think that waiting for the SHTF is a good thing, neither is encouraging it. Sounds like Fight Club to me. Romanticised anarchism.

yes, but nature is also a great equalizer

if we stayed with the nature of things -- we would not feel the brunt of nature.

I don't understand what youre saying by this. Perhaps you would elaborate please?

So it's going to be an Armageddon scenario, in which those who don't want to repent are thrown into some kind of abyss and the good people will inherit the earth?

LOL :D Nice avatar, btw.

[ichi wa zen]

How? You didn't say how?

Fluffy comments sound nice but you have to put some meat on the bone for others to chew on!

This is not a physical battle, its in our minds. We dont have to fight anyone, only our minds. Just spread The Truth to as many people as you possibly can, its simple really :cool:

Do you really think that if 80% of a country inhabitants knew The Truth that the army would still be behind that government? I think not!

[adimon]

How? You didn't say how?

Fluffy comments sound nice but you have to put some meat on the bone for others to chew on!

ABSO-BLOODY-EXACTLY!

[adimon]

This is not a physical battle, its in our minds. We dont have to fight anyone, only our minds. Just spread The Truth to as many people as you possibly can, its simple really :cool:

Do you really think that if 80% of an country inhabitants knew The Truth that the army would still be behind that government? I think not!

Yes. It happened in Soviet Russia, and Cambodia, and Myanmar, and Uganda, and many other places where the truth has not set people free.

And that's not even taking into account the places where there is more than one army to consider. Think about all the regions where there is open tribal war - Afghanistan, Uganda, DRC, etc..?

[coolfighter]

"The shape of our near future"

Is the collapse of the illusion

That the people are in control

To be replaced with the actuality

Of the people taking control



Please discuss...

I agree, but it needs lots of sacrifices to achieve that!

And i don't know where we to start from!

[mightiswrong]

So how are you going to defeat the government?

How are you going to stop one tribe fighting another?

It is a historic fact that it is governments that fight each other. In the last cenuary alone hundreds of millions of people were killed by warring governments. I do not see how a few lootings by people who cleary wish to govern others can be described as anarchy when the definition of anarchy is the absense of rule.

[ichi wa zen]

Yes. It happened in Soviet Russia, and Cambodia, and Myanmar, and Uganda, and many other places where the truth has not set people free.

And that's not even taking into account the places where there is more than one army to consider. Think about all the regions where there is open tribal war - Afghanistan, Uganda, DRC, etc..?

Do these countries really matter in The End Game? If we can get 80% of the citizens of America, England, France, China, Japan, Israel, Iran, Turkey, Germany, Russia to know The Truth we will make it. Basically the pawns in The End Game need to be awakened!

[titurel]

This is not a physical battle, its in our minds. We dont have to fight anyone, only our minds. Just spread The Truth to as many people as you possibly can, its simple really :cool:

Do you really think that if 80% of a country inhabitants knew The Truth that the army would still be behind that government? I think not!
But at present, not even 5% of the population is interested and that's just in the UK. What are you going to do with the millions of Catholic and Muslim fanatics and extremists around the globe?

Saying, "Just spread The Truth to as many people as you possibly can, its simple really", again sounds nice but it's a fluffy comment that seems more steeped in delusion!

Please address the specific question of what is going to happen to the willful evil-doers who do not want to change their wicked ways? It only takes one person to machine gun down a 1000 people. So what is going to happen to the evil doers in order for the world to be cleansed in 2012?

Who is going to remove the wicked conspirators, who do not want to purge their hearts of malice, from the face of the earth?

[titurel]

Some people on this forum are under the delusion that the run up to 2012 is going to be like having a cup of tea!

[steevo]

And how do you deal with people who break common sense laws, like murder, if you aabolish the law? There would be a very bloody and sick anarchy in all major cities if government were defeated. People would still be fighting over beliefs on the streets, just like they do on this forum - only, it would be much worse because the streets would have no moderators like this forum has!

Murders, paedofiles, thieves etc happen for a reason. It's cause and effect. In the future we will not just treat the symptoms and the after effects like we do now. We will look at what is CAUSING it and illiminate the cause. No one is saying it's going to be easy (especially because it's a monster that the current system has created by design) but it can be done without doubt IMO.

Yes. It happened in Soviet Russia, and Cambodia, and Myanmar, and Uganda, and many other places where the truth has not set people free.

And that's not even taking into account the places where there is more than one army to consider. Think about all the regions where there is open tribal war - Afghanistan, Uganda, DRC, etc..?

The Illuminati got involved in those countries and that is why there is so much bloodshed there.

[ichi wa zen]

@titurel, it seems as if you already gave up. We dont need negative people in this battle, only people who have faith. You cant control destiny if you think like a weakling!

[steevo]

Some people on this forum are under the delusion that the run up to 2012 is going to be like having a cup of tea!

Would you prefer everyone to panic in FEAR ? :rolleyes:

[titurel]

Murders, paedofiles, thieves etc happen for a reason. It's cause and effect. In the future we will not just treat the symptoms and the after effects like we do now. We will look at what is CAUSING it and illiminate the cause. No one is saying it's going to be easy (especially because it's a monster that the current system has created by design) but it can be done without doubt IMO.
But what will happen to all those that don't want to change their ways and let love into their hearts at 2012?

Do you expect George Bush and all his dish lickers, and all the other millions of the world's wicked, to suddenly repent on December 23, 2012? What will happen to those who don't want to repent of their ways? Will they all just drop dead?

Please put some meat on the bone of your fluffy comments please!

[mightiswrong]

And how do you deal with people who break common sense laws, like murder, if you aabolish the law? There would be a very bloody and sick anarchy in all major cities if government were defeated. People would still be fighting over beliefs on the streets, just like they do on this forum - only, it would be much worse because the streets would have no moderators like this forum has!


"Defining Anarchy

by Mark Davis

Anarchy is a functioning society free of government controls. That is individual persons operating together in harmony based on freely reached agreements concluded between individual members and groups of a society. Anarchy is simply a free society. Anarchy is not the result of a statist-government failure; that would be chaos. The chaos in New Orleans is not due to anarchy, it is an example of the failure of statist-government.

People have said and written to me that: “See, anarchy can’t work because look at what happened in New Orleans when there was no government.” To define anarchy as statist-government failure is such an obvious distortion of the concept of a free society that it is hard to decide where to begin to dismantle such thoughtlessness. I like to begin by simply pointing out that at least four layers of statist-government agencies still claim jurisdiction over the area known as New Orleans (city, parish, state and federal). The undeniable fact is that they all four failed to provide the services they had promised to provide when they were justifying the theft of individual resources called taxes.

It boggles the mind how one can point to obvious failure to live up to political promises as a way to abdicate the responsibility of politicians to live up to those promises. Of course statist-governments never have and never will provide what they have promised. They simply return promising more and more if only they could have more power and more money. Next time, politicians promise, things will be different, better. Politics is just a show, and the curtain was pulled back in New Orleans .

The main problem is that in spite of a long history of failure living up to its promises, so many people still see the statist-government system as the only available method of organizing society. When one government fails, statist drones can’t wait to revive it or start another one. The problem is perceived to be that it was the people who ran the system that failed and not the system itself. The blame game gets heated up as the bureaucrats immediately start pointing at each other. The sheep line up behind their “leaders” who “did all they could do” so that when the dust settles and the checks spending taxpayer monies get distributed, their loyalty will be rewarded. But these knaves are but a small band of thieves; it is the dupes who make it all possible.

The lure for those educated in statist-government indoctrination centers and informed by media misinformation organs to equate the failure of statist-government to a state of anarchy is overwhelming to what little logic remains in their thought processes. When someone truly believes that society cannot exist without a central authority wielding a monopoly on the use of force to keep order, then it is easy to fall into this illogical mire. Getting out of this mire takes a level of desire for the truth that most sadly lack. So try undisputed facts that most people already know of to counteract this tendency.

First, the catastrophe in New Orleans was not caused by the hurricane, but by the flooding that followed the failure of the dikes. Were these dikes built and maintained by private organizations, as they would be under anarchy (if built) or by statist-government agencies? The Army Corp of Engineers built and maintained the dikes after politicians decided it was a good idea to build a city below sea level. The failure of the Army Corp of Engineers to build dikes that would withstand a commonly known potential risk as well as their failure to maintain these dikes is not anarchy.

Second, when the water started flooding into the city, who escaped: those who relied on self-initiative or those who relied on statist-government assistance? This is about as clear-cut an example of the contrast between vertical command structures based on central command authorities (statist-government) and horizontal command structures based on individual responsibility (anarchy) as you will find. People conditioned over a lifetime of waiting on the statist-government check to arrive are probably still waiting for someone from the government to show up and save them from their own inaction.

People with a sense of self-government easily made the decision that it was time to go. Of course, most of these people had already left. So was the fact that many people were trapped in their homes during the flooding due to anarchy or statist-government policies? That statist-government officials asked people to rely on their own resources (anarchy) to do the obvious (leave) does not mitigate their failure, but only points to where people should have been focused to begin with.

Third, after the statist-government security agents either abandoned whole areas or were completely ineffective in accomplishing their stated purpose (to protect persons and property), was the looting due to anarchy or the failure of the statist-government security system? Was the complete lack of respect for the property of others due to a culture that respects private property (anarchy) or a culture that believes in the redistribution of private property (statist-government)? Either coming or going, it looks like another failure of statist-government, not anarchy. Further consider what would have happened if a property owner had stayed to protect his property and shot a looter. Who do you think would have been arrested: the looter or the guy who challenged the monopoly on security?

Fourth, after the floodwaters had done their damage and people needed help, was it the effort of statist-government agencies like FEMA that came through, or was it the friends, families, neighbors and charitable persons and organizations (anarchy)? The statist-government agencies not only stumbled, fumbled and bumbled about focusing on irrelevant issues like trying to figure out who was in charge, but they hindered the recovery efforts of free-society (anarchy). Here in Central Florida at least, one local airboat club was loaded up with water, chainsaws, blankets, food and fuel ready to hit the road the day after the flood, but made the mistake of calling FEMA to allow the pathetic bureaucrats to tell them where to go. They were told not to go.

Instead of ignoring the official statist-government idiots, they obeyed like good citizens. When even big-hearted good ‘ol boys in the home of the brave and the land of the free ask bureaucratic weenies for permission to do the right thing and then obey those orders even when they know that the fools are wrong, America has slid too far down the slippery slope of statism.

The response of private individuals and businesses including doctors was immediate and overwhelming to the central command authority that was inherently unable to deal with the scope of the problems involved. Over 50 countries around the world offered to respond immediately to help but were told no thanks or at best, wait. Wal-Mart sent some trucks loaded with water to the area and were told it wasn’t needed. So in the recovery phase, was it anarchy or statist-government that helped or hurt the most in New Orleans ? The answer should be clear by now.

The more freedom a society has, the better the living conditions of that society will be during good times and bad. Only elite lever pullers behind the curtains benefit from statist-government, not the masses who religiously worship at the statist altar praying for help that will never come. To be brainwashed into equating anarchy with chaos to the point where obvious government failure defines anarchy is unacceptable to people who wish to be free.

People ruled by a fear of not having Big Brother take care of them will never be free. The pertinent question then is how many people in America are ruled by their fears and wish to trade their liberty for the illusion of security based on empty promises? I fear too many are blinded by irrational fears but hope enough brave souls may still be able to rationally think about it when presented with the facts.

Government failure is not anarchy. Anarchy is a society that functions without government control, a free society. Society can continue to function somewhat with limited government control, but that doesn’t mean government control is required to have a society. When government control obviously hinders the efforts of society to function efficiently, it is time to remove those controls. A society can function better with no government controls. New Orleans should be a case study educating Americans and the world of this simple fact."
http://www.strike-the-root.com/52/davis/davis4.html

[ichi wa zen]

Would you prefer everyone to panic in FEAR ? :rolleyes:

Maybe he is one of them trying to discourage people, you never know :p

I will never give up and will continue fighting even when im in the 7th layer of hell.

The battle is not fought on the battlefield, because there it is already decided who will win.

We can only win if we believe and think we can win, as i said most of this battle is in our minds! :)

[steevo]

But what will happen to all those that don't want to change their ways and let love into their hearts at 2012?

Do you expect George Bush and all his dish lickers, and all the other millions of the world's wicked, to suddenly repent on December 23, 2012? What will happen to those who don't want to repent of their ways? Will they all just drop dead?

Please put some meat on the bone of your fluffy comments please!

Well if you want me to say it, yes they will repent. Under the new "system" they would have no reason for greed and killing and it would end together with your negativity.

[titurel]

@titurel, it seems as if you already gave up. We dont need negative people in this battle, only people who have faith. You cant control destiny if you think like a weakling!
So what are you going to do with all the negative people you don't like?

You only seem to be day dreaming, never addressing the finer details!

[titurel]

Well if you want me to say it, yes they will repent. Under the new "system" they would have no reason for greed and killing and it would end together with your negativity.
And supposing they don't want to repent? You can't force people to repent if they don't want to... so how can you force them to?

[titurel]

Maybe he is one of them trying to discourage people, you never know :p

I will never give up and will continue fighting even when im in the 7th layer of hell.

The battle is not fought on the battlefield, because there it is already decided who will win.

We can only win if we believe and think we can win, as i said most of this battle is in our minds! :)
You can't fight for something unless you have a detailed plan, which you obviously lack!

[steevo]

The battle is not fought on the battlefield, because there it is already decided who will win.

The people who are at war with mankind are not on the battlefields, they sit and watch the battle from thousands of miles away. They are cowards and will cower when the awakening happens.

[titurel]

"Defining Anarchy

by Mark Davis

Anarchy is a functioning society free of government controls. That is individual persons operating together in harmony based on freely reached agreements concluded between individual members and groups of a society. Anarchy is simply a free society. Anarchy is not the result of a statist-government failure; that would be chaos. The chaos in New Orleans is not due to anarchy, it is an example of the failure of statist-government.

People have said and written to me that: “See, anarchy can’t work because look at what happened in New Orleans when there was no government.” To define anarchy as statist-government failure is such an obvious distortion of the concept of a free society that it is hard to decide where to begin to dismantle such thoughtlessness. I like to begin by simply pointing out that at least four layers of statist-government agencies still claim jurisdiction over the area known as New Orleans (city, parish, state and federal). The undeniable fact is that they all four failed to provide the services they had promised to provide when they were justifying the theft of individual resources called taxes.

It boggles the mind how one can point to obvious failure to live up to political promises as a way to abdicate the responsibility of politicians to live up to those promises. Of course statist-governments never have and never will provide what they have promised. They simply return promising more and more if only they could have more power and more money. Next time, politicians promise, things will be different, better. Politics is just a show, and the curtain was pulled back in New Orleans .

The main problem is that in spite of a long history of failure living up to its promises, so many people still see the statist-government system as the only available method of organizing society. When one government fails, statist drones can’t wait to revive it or start another one. The problem is perceived to be that it was the people who ran the system that failed and not the system itself. The blame game gets heated up as the bureaucrats immediately start pointing at each other. The sheep line up behind their “leaders” who “did all they could do” so that when the dust settles and the checks spending taxpayer monies get distributed, their loyalty will be rewarded. But these knaves are but a small band of thieves; it is the dupes who make it all possible.

The lure for those educated in statist-government indoctrination centers and informed by media misinformation organs to equate the failure of statist-government to a state of anarchy is overwhelming to what little logic remains in their thought processes. When someone truly believes that society cannot exist without a central authority wielding a monopoly on the use of force to keep order, then it is easy to fall into this illogical mire. Getting out of this mire takes a level of desire for the truth that most sadly lack. So try undisputed facts that most people already know of to counteract this tendency.

First, the catastrophe in New Orleans was not caused by the hurricane, but by the flooding that followed the failure of the dikes. Were these dikes built and maintained by private organizations, as they would be under anarchy (if built) or by statist-government agencies? The Army Corp of Engineers built and maintained the dikes after politicians decided it was a good idea to build a city below sea level. The failure of the Army Corp of Engineers to build dikes that would withstand a commonly known potential risk as well as their failure to maintain these dikes is not anarchy.

Second, when the water started flooding into the city, who escaped: those who relied on self-initiative or those who relied on statist-government assistance? This is about as clear-cut an example of the contrast between vertical command structures based on central command authorities (statist-government) and horizontal command structures based on individual responsibility (anarchy) as you will find. People conditioned over a lifetime of waiting on the statist-government check to arrive are probably still waiting for someone from the government to show up and save them from their own inaction.

People with a sense of self-government easily made the decision that it was time to go. Of course, most of these people had already left. So was the fact that many people were trapped in their homes during the flooding due to anarchy or statist-government policies? That statist-government officials asked people to rely on their own resources (anarchy) to do the obvious (leave) does not mitigate their failure, but only points to where people should have been focused to begin with.

Third, after the statist-government security agents either abandoned whole areas or were completely ineffective in accomplishing their stated purpose (to protect persons and property), was the looting due to anarchy or the failure of the statist-government security system? Was the complete lack of respect for the property of others due to a culture that respects private property (anarchy) or a culture that believes in the redistribution of private property (statist-government)? Either coming or going, it looks like another failure of statist-government, not anarchy. Further consider what would have happened if a property owner had stayed to protect his property and shot a looter. Who do you think would have been arrested: the looter or the guy who challenged the monopoly on security?

Fourth, after the floodwaters had done their damage and people needed help, was it the effort of statist-government agencies like FEMA that came through, or was it the friends, families, neighbors and charitable persons and organizations (anarchy)? The statist-government agencies not only stumbled, fumbled and bumbled about focusing on irrelevant issues like trying to figure out who was in charge, but they hindered the recovery efforts of free-society (anarchy). Here in Central Florida at least, one local airboat club was loaded up with water, chainsaws, blankets, food and fuel ready to hit the road the day after the flood, but made the mistake of calling FEMA to allow the pathetic bureaucrats to tell them where to go. They were told not to go.

Instead of ignoring the official statist-government idiots, they obeyed like good citizens. When even big-hearted good ‘ol boys in the home of the brave and the land of the free ask bureaucratic weenies for permission to do the right thing and then obey those orders even when they know that the fools are wrong, America has slid too far down the slippery slope of statism.

The response of private individuals and businesses including doctors was immediate and overwhelming to the central command authority that was inherently unable to deal with the scope of the problems involved. Over 50 countries around the world offered to respond immediately to help but were told no thanks or at best, wait. Wal-Mart sent some trucks loaded with water to the area and were told it wasn’t needed. So in the recovery phase, was it anarchy or statist-government that helped or hurt the most in New Orleans ? The answer should be clear by now.

The more freedom a society has, the better the living conditions of that society will be during good times and bad. Only elite lever pullers behind the curtains benefit from statist-government, not the masses who religiously worship at the statist altar praying for help that will never come. To be brainwashed into equating anarchy with chaos to the point where obvious government failure defines anarchy is unacceptable to people who wish to be free.

People ruled by a fear of not having Big Brother take care of them will never be free. The pertinent question then is how many people in America are ruled by their fears and wish to trade their liberty for the illusion of security based on empty promises? I fear too many are blinded by irrational fears but hope enough brave souls may still be able to rationally think about it when presented with the facts.

Government failure is not anarchy. Anarchy is a society that functions without government control, a free society. Society can continue to function somewhat with limited government control, but that doesn’t mean government control is required to have a society. When government control obviously hinders the efforts of society to function efficiently, it is time to remove those controls. A society can function better with no government controls. New Orleans should be a case study educating Americans and the world of this simple fact."
http://www.strike-the-root.com/52/davis/davis4.html
The above article is waffle because it doesn't address the fact that not everyone WANTS to live in peace. It doesn't address the fact that some people WANT to have more power and wealth than others!

[ichi wa zen]

So what are you going to do with all the negative people you don't like?

You only seem to be day dreaming, never addressing the finer details!

Im not going to do anything with negative people. Now where did i say i dont LIKE negative people? Are you putting words in my mouth? I love all people even the negative ones like you :p

There are no finer details. First lets awake 80% of the people who live in thosecountries that are going to be used as pawns in The End Game, then we will think of a next step.

And better to daydream than to experience nightmares such as yourself. Stop discouraging people with your negative thinking!

[titurel]

The people who are at war with mankind are not on the battlefields, they sit and watch the battle from thousands of miles away. They are cowards and will cower when the awakening happens.
It will be like Armageddon!

[steevo]

And supposing they don't want to repent? You can't force people to repent if they don't want to... so how can you force them to?

Are you frightened ? You sound like you are in fear.

You can't fight for something unless you have a detailed plan, which you obviously lack!

The plan is to awaken the people.

[steevo]

It will be like Armageddon!

Go run to your mummy.

[titurel]

Im not going to do anything with negative people. Now where did i say i dont LIKE negative people? Are you putting words in my mouth? I love all people even the negative ones like you :p

There are no finer details. First lets awake 80% of the people who live in thosecountries that are going to be used as pawns in The End Game, then we will think of a next step.

And better to daydream than to experience nightmares such as yourself. Stop discouraging people with your negative thinking!
I'm not beng negative, justy asking for some sign of intelligence from you. Stupid people only have fluffy ideas. There's no point in destroying government and then asking questions because you may only end up destroying yourself!

[steevo]

It will be like Armageddon!

I'm not beng negative, justy asking for some sign of intelligence from you. Stupid people only have fluffy ideas. There's no point in destroying government and then asking questions because you may only end up destroying yourself!

Fear mongerer.

[titurel]

Are you frightened ? You sound like you are in fear.

The plan is to awaken the people.
I'm not frightened because, although they can take my body, they can't take my soul! The point is, waking people up sounds nice but in reality, it's not going to be nice at all because people with lust for wealth and power in their murderous hearts do not want to give up their power and so far you haven't addressed what will happen to those people... perhaps you are too frightened to? Or perhaps you haven't got a clue?

[ichi wa zen]

I'm not beng negative, justy asking for some sign of intelligence from you. Stupid people only have fluffy ideas. There's no point in destroying government and then asking questions because you may only end up destroying yourself!

Ok so now i lack intelligence and im a stupid person? Stay on topic please, you are showing your real self, there is no more doubt in my mind that you are only here to further the agenda of the NWO.

You havent said anything positive, attack people personally and only try to discourage people to take control of their own destiny.

We will take control of our own destiny, people follow your heart and dont listen to these people who will only insert more fear in you!! I expect the people in this forum to see through this charade :)

[titurel]

Fear mongerer.
So your a name caller? That's a fine start for you to start bringing peace on earth! LOL

The world is full of hypcrites it seems!

[steevo]

I'm not frightened because, although they can take my body, they can't take my soul! The point is, waking people up sounds nice but in reality, it's not going to be nice at all because people with lust for wealth and power in their murderous hearts do not want to give up their power and so far you haven't addressed what will happen to those people... perhaps you are too frightened to? Or perhaps you haven't got a clue?

Your words show that you are frightened. Fear is what has enabled this system to get to this terrible situation we are in now, it's the brink of WW3. And then it will be WW4, then WW5......

[titurel]

Ok so now i lack intelligence and im a stupid person? Stay on topic please, you are showing your real self, there is no more doubt in my mind that you are only here to further the agenda of the NWO.

You havent said anything positive, attack people personally and only try to discourage people to take control of their own destiny.

We will take control of our own destiny, people follow your heart and dont listen to these people who will only insert more fear in you!! I expect the people in this forum to see through this kind of hatemongers
I'm only playing devil's advocate to get some sense out of you but you keep evading the awkward questions! You can't take control of your own destiny so long as you accuse others of being negative hatemongers in the fashion you're doing! You only sound like a Muslim extremist when you talk about taking control of your own destiny!

[titurel]

Your words show that you are frightened. Fear is what has enabled this system to get to this terrible situation we are in now, it's the brink of WW3. And then it will be WW4, then WW5......
I'm not frightened because, as i said, although they can take my body, they can't take my soul! It's much more than fear that has darkened the world, btw... it's also certain peoples' desire to have more wealth and power than everyone else that has brought the world so low!

[mightiswrong]

You only sound like a Muslim extremist when you talk about taking control of your own destiny!

Interesting.

You are beginning to sound like a government terrorist.

[steevo]

I'm only playing devil's advocate to get some sense out of you but you keep evading the awkward questions! You can't take control of your own destiny so long as you accuse others of being negative hatemongers in the fashion you're doing! You only sound like a Muslim extremist when you talk about taking control of your own destiny!

You asked questions and we replied. Just because you dont like our answers doesnt mean that we didnt answer them.

That thing where you say "you sound like a Muslim extremist" just shows how utterly brainwashed you are.

[ichi wa zen]

Destiny is anothers person manipulation, in this case the NWO. By taking destiny in our own hands we will be victorious! People, spread The Truth, The Truth hurts them more than anything!

We gave the NWO power and we can take it away, its really simple! Its no quantumphysics.

Just imagine 80% of America knowing The Truth, do you think a soldier would kill his own mother or father because he or she is ordered to by Bush? I think not!

Therefore all we have to do is spread The Truth to as many people as we can.

The Truth Shall Set Us Free :D

The most important thing is to believe we can do it and then we will, fear is nothing compared to Love which is all! Fear is only the love of self/ego/i/me, while Love is all, Love will always win in the End and this is The End.

[ichi wa zen]

Interesting.

You are beginning to sound like a government terrorist.

Thank you! Really thank you! Never give up, they are everywhere spreading more fear for they know people are awakening :D

(edit) im sorry, i have double posted, please excuse me :D

[titurel]

Interesting.

You are beginning to sound like a government terrorist.
And you are sounding paranoid!

[titurel]

You asked questions and we replied. Just because you dont like our answers doesnt mean that we didnt answer them.

That thing where you say "you sound like a Muslim extremist" just shows how utterly brainwashed you are.
You ahve not answered the questions and it's you who are brainwashed.

[titurel]

Destiny is anothers person manipulation, in this case the NWO. By taking destiny in our own hands we will be victorious! People, spread The Truth, The Truth hurts them more than anything!

We gave the NWO power and we can take it away, its really simple! Its no quantumphysics.

Just imagine 80% of America knowing The Truth, do you think a soldier would kill his own mother or father because he or she is ordered to by Bush? I think not!

Therefore all we have to do is spread The Truth to as many people as we can.

The Truth Shall Set Us Free :D

The most important thing is to believe we can do it and then we will, fear is nothing compared to Love which is all! Fear is only the love of self/ego/i/me, while Love is all, Love will always win in the End and this is The End.
But you use all the same emotive language as all the other extremists:

"Therefore all we have to do is spread The Truth to as many people as we can!"

That's what all the extremists say to justify their cause and you can't see the irony of your situation!

[steevo]

But you use all the same emotive language as all the other extremists:

"Therefore all we have to do is spread The Truth to as many people as we can!"

That's what all the extremists say to justify their cause and you can't see the irony of your situation!

That is what we have to do SPREAD THE TRUTH AND WAKE PEOPLE UP :)

[titurel]

Thank you! Really thank you! Never give up, they are everywhere spreading more fear for they know people are awakening

(edit) im sorry, i have double posted, please excuse me
Some people are awakening and more will follow, but the world, in the meantime, is becoming a darker place and more unsettled place. I'm just being realistic. I do take the view that a new dawn is coming and the world can be restored to a paradise but it's not going to be the cup of tea ride that your day dreaming about in the meantime!

[mightiswrong]

Yes people need to know that they control their destiny. People are free. The fear is only an illusion.

But you use all the same emotive language as all the other extremists:

"Therefore all we have to do is spread The Truth to as many people as we can!"

That's what all the extremists say to justify their cause and you can't see the irony of your situation!

Anyone smell a troll in the vicinity?

[titurel]

That is what we have to do SPREAD THE TRUTH AND WAKE PEOPLE UP
Truth is a personal matter. What's truth to you may not be truth for your next door neighbour. You can't force people to accept YOUR truth because that's what dictators do!

[titurel]

Yes people need to know that they control their destiny. People are free. The fear is only an illusion.

Anyone smell a troll in the vicinity?
But being free and being in charge of ones destiny depends on cooperating with others, which you're demonstrating you can't because you're only interested in name calling and being a troll yourself!

[steevo]

Truth is a personal matter. What's truth to you may not be truth for your next door neighbour. You can't force people to accept YOUR truth because that's what dictators do!

Ok just for you I will re-phrase it :-

That is what we have to do SPREAD THE "TRUTH" AND WAKE PEOPLE UP

[ichi wa zen]

Here some inspiring quotes after all the fear certain people on here are trying to spam :D

"You have to be optimistic and confident, otherwise you are doomed."

"If you believe in yourself, you can accomplish anything."

"If you believe that a higher power is on your side, you can accomplish anything."

"There ain't nothing like the power of positive thinking. It's a power much greater than oneself."

"Keep the faith!"

"You have to TRY if you want to accomplish something. If you don't, you'll never know. To me, 'never to have known' is the worst destiny."

"You can change your destiny. If you aren't responsible for yourself, who will be?"

"One person's destiny is another's manipulation."

"I guess when someone surrenders himself to destiny, there's another person behind the scenes who has taken charge to make sure that destiny happens."

[mightiswrong]

I can be what I will to be.

[titurel]

Ok just for you I will re-phrase it :-

That is what we have to do SPREAD THE "TRUTH" AND WAKE PEOPLE UP
Okay, but we already know the truth that our governments are corrupt, but it isn't going to be an easy period as people start demonstrating against the government and causing mass civil unrest in all the cities of the world in the next 5 years. It's not going to be a cup of tea ride...

[steevo]

Some people are awakening and more will follow, but the world, in the meantime, is becoming a darker place and more unsettled place. I'm just being realistic. I do take the view that a new dawn is coming and the world can be restored to a paradise but it's not going to be the cup of tea ride that your day dreaming about in the meantime!

We already know that it's going to be a major struggle sorting out this mess that your beloved NWO has caused so what is the point of your comment above ?

[titurel]

Here some inspiring quotes after all the fear certain people are trying to spread:

"You have to be optimistic and confident, otherwise you are doomed."

"If you believe in yourself, you can accomplish anything."

"If you believe that a higher power is on your side, you can accomplish anything."

"There ain't nothing like the power of positive thinking. It's a power much greater than oneself."

"Keep the faith!"

"You have to TRY if you want to accomplish something. If you don't, you'll never know. To me, 'never to have known' is the worst destiny."

"You can change your destiny. If you aren't responsible for yourself, who will be?"

"One person's destiny is another's manipulation."

"I guess when someone surrenders himself to destiny, there's another person behind the scenes who has taken charge to make sure that destiny happens."
You're already preaching to the converted with your hackneyed exprssions but it doesn't solve the issue of how power can wrested away from those that don't want to give it up! It will happen but it's not going to happen peacefully and it's not going to happen because some kneel before George Bush to beg him to change his ways.

[mightiswrong]

Okay, but we already know the truth that our governments are corrupt, but it isn't going to be an easy period as people start demonstrating against the government and causing mass civil unrest in all the cities of the world in the next 5 years. It's not going to be a cup of tea ride...

Civil unrest is being caused by the governments lies not the truth.

[titurel]

We already know that it's going to be a major struggle sorting out this mess that your beloved NWO has caused so what is the point of your comment above ?
I hate the NWO, but at least your now admitting it's not going to be easy!

[mightiswrong]

Who ever said it was going to be easy?

[titurel]

Civil unrest is being caused by the governments lies not the truth.
Civil unrest sometimes occurs when people want to destroy government...

[steevo]

You're already preaching to the converted with your hackneyed exprssions but it doesn't solve the issue of how power can wrested away from those that don't want to give it up! It will happen but it's not going to happen peacefully and it's not going to happen because some kneel before George Bush to beg him to change his ways.

Well none of us have a crystal ball titurel. You sound like you want us to predict the future EXACTLY. George Bush is a coward so why should I be frightened of a coward ? Stop trying to frighten us you wimp ;) Cos it wont work :D

[titurel]

Who ever said it was going to be easy?
I was just after some clarification and acknowledgement of that reality!

[mightiswrong]

LOL. You mean when governments turn into fascist police states?

[mightiswrong]

The philosophy of liberty:
http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf

[titurel]

Well none of us have a crystal ball titurel. You sound like you want us to predict the future EXACTLY. George Bush is a coward so why should I be frightened of a coward ? Stop trying to frighten us you wimp
What a wimpish thing to say! Are you that easily frightened? What are you going to do when the real fascists come to try to knock you back down? All I wanted is an acknowledgement that the relatively near future is not going to be a day dream, but rather a tough reality that will have to be dealt with in practical terms. Looking out of the window and day dreaming will solve absolutely nothing!

[titurel]

LOL. You mean when governments turn into fascist police states?
It's already happening...

[steevo]

What a wimpish thing to say! Are you that easily frightened? What are you going to do when the real fascists come to try to knock you back down? All I wanted is an acknowledgement that the relatively near future is not going to be a day dream, but rather a tough reality that will have to be dealt with in practical terms. Looking out of the window and day dreaming will solve absolutely nothing!

Fear mongering again :p
I'm not frightened by ANYTHING that you say. I just said stop TRYING to frighten us (cos it's boring and you are wasting your time and money).

[ichi wa zen]

MWuahahHAhahahahha funny guy too, not its not going to be easy and a cup of tea type of ride.

So you rather have a Third World War and after thats over, a new religion led by Lucifer aka Satan where men will be enslaved? WOW nice future mate, id rather die standing than live on my 2 knees sucking the NWO's youknowwhat.

The remaining people will probably put in some Monarch Mindcontrol program where we will get tortured and raped by satanists daily. YAY! (This is only speculation, but hey, satanists are nuts :eek: )

You think the NWO is going to be nice?!?! Ha, ofcourse not, it will be a living hell. So rather try to stop it than accept it like the weakspirited person you are.

[titurel]

Fear mongering again
I'm not frightened by ANYTHING that you say. I just said stop TRYING to frighten us (cos it's boring and you are wasting your time and money).
I'm not fear mongering. I'm simply telling it as it is because forewarned is to be prepared. So don't let yourself be frightened by posters on the Internet and take courage against a challenging future.

[ichi wa zen]

I'm not fear mongering. I'm simply telling it as it is because forewarned is to be prepared. So don't let yourself be frightened by posters on the Internet and take courage against a challenging future.

Please, tell us your plan, you seem to be a very enlightened person :rolleyes:

What is your plan to stop the NWO? Please elaborate. In finer detail please.

[titurel]

MWuahahHAhahahahha funny guy too, not its not going to be easy and a cup of tea type of ride.

So you rather have a Third World War and after thats over, a new religion led by Lucifer aka Satan where men will be enslaved? WOW nice future mate, id rather die standing than live on my 2 knees sucking the NWO's youknowwhat.

The remaining people will probably put in some Monarch Mindcontrol program where we will get tortured and raped by satanists daily. YAY! (This is only speculation, but hey, satanists are nuts :eek: )

You think the NWO is going to be nice?!?! Ha, ofcourse not, it will be a living hell. So rather try to stop it than accept it like the weakspirited person you are.
That's right, the relatively near future is not going to be an easy ride and I for one do not want to live in a Satanic NWO order either, but there are many Satanists around today who do want that dream to be fulfilled.

[titurel]

Please, tell us your plan, you seem to be a very enlightened person :rolleyes:

What is your plan to stop the NWO? Please elaborate. In finer detail please.
At last you're being more reasonable instead of jumping to prejudiced conclusions, but I'm simpy asking questions at the moment, if that's alright with you that is. Or do you want to prevent people asking questions too?

[ichi wa zen]

At last you're being more reasonable instead of jumping to prejudiced conclusions, but I'm simpy asking questions at the moment, if that's alright with you that is. Or do you want to prevent people asking questions too?

I'm only playing devil's advocate to get some sense out of you but you keep evading the awkward questions! (sound familiar?!?!!?) :p

Please answer my questions, how are we going to stop the NWO?

[steevo]

Or do you want to prevent people asking questions too?

Stay on topic please :)

[titurel]

I'm only playing devil's advocate to get some sense out of you but you keep evading the awkward questions! (sound familiar?!?!!?) :p

Please answer my questions, how are we going to stop the NWO?
I've already said that I'm only asking the questions at the moment. I've never claimed to have the solution or ability to wipe the planet clean of evil people and criminal behaviour.

[titurel]

Stay on topic please
Asking pertinent questions is on topic. So stop trying to be what you hate, telling other people what to do! :)

[mightiswrong]

You are such a blatent shill. I find it funny that you believe people cant see thru you.

[steevo]

Asking pertinent questions is on topic. So stop trying to be what you hate, telling other people what to do! :)

Chill out! ;) I was only playing :D

[steevo]

I've already said that I'm only asking the questions at the moment. I've never claimed to have the solution or ability to wipe the planet clean of evil people and criminal behaviour.

Ok so you have no answers at all, that is a good start lol

[titurel]

You are such a blatent shill. I find it funny that you believe people cant see thru you.
I'm sure many will see through you too and your hypcrisy.

[ichi wa zen]

I've already said that I'm only asking the questions at the moment. I've never claimed to have the solution or ability to wipe the planet clean of evil people and criminal behaviour.

Ok so you dont have the solution? Well, i think i do as i have stated earlier in this topic.

Get 80% of the people who live in the countries which are going to be used as pawns in The End Game to know The Truth. This is what i think will stop the NWO.

As long as you dont offer another solution or alternative, why would you bash on your fellow people who are willing to ATLEAST TRY and save your ass? Dont you love us? We are in this shit together, lets think about a solution together! Why would you mock us?

That doesnt make any sense to me unless ofcourse you are being payed in $$$ by the NWO (or maybe in Delta mindcontrolled males or females, who the heck knows)

[titurel]

Ok so you have no answers at all, that is a good start lol
I don't think the wisdom of men is adequate to solve the global problems, especially from the comments I've seen in this thread...

[titurel]

Ok so you dont have the solution? Well, i think i do as i have stated earlier in this topic.

Get 80% of the people who live in the countries which are going to be used as pawns in The End Game to know The Truth. This is what i think will stop the NWO.

As long as you dont offer another solution or alternative, why would you bash on your fellow people who are willing to ATLEAST TRY and save your ass? Dont you love us? We are in this shit together, lets think about a solution together! Why would you mock us?

That doesnt make any sense to me unless ofcourse you are being payed in $$$ by the NWO (or maybe in Delta mindcontrolled males or females, who the heck knows)
I agree that preaching the truth to people is the way forward. Every little helps but the point I'm making is that it's not going to be easy because most people have shares in the system that you're trying to rightly destroy.

[steevo]

I don't think the wisdom of men is adequate to solve the global problems, especially from the comments I've seen in this thread...

The wisdom of men is not adequate ? That is exactly what they tptb want you to think and you have fell for it along with the rest of the population WAKE UP!

[mightiswrong]

We must take control of our destiny.

[titurel]

The wisdom of men is not adequate ? That is exactly what they tptb want you to think and you have fell for it along with the rest of the population WAKE UP!
When you can come up with the details, I may then change my mind or not... depending on the details you may or may not come up with!

[titurel]

We must take control of our destiny.
Peacefully? Things can only change through understanding. The problem is, however that people like George Bush, Hillary Clinton and Gordon Brown do not want to understand.

[steevo]

I agree that preaching the truth to people is the way forward. Every little helps but the point I'm making is that it's not going to be easy because most people have shares in the system that you're trying to rightly destroy.

Those "shares" that the people have in the current system are worthless really and once the mass awakening happens then they will be more willing to accept a "change" of sytems, yes it will be a struggle.. Anyway, the new "system" would let us all have "shares" not just the elite with the rest of the hangers on trying to pick up the scraps.

[steevo]

Peacefully? Things can only change through understanding. The problem is, however that people like George Bush, Hillary Clinton and Gordon Brown do not want to understand.

What! You just named 3 people out of 6 billion on the planet.

[ichi wa zen]

I agree that preaching the truth to people is the way forward. Every little helps but the point I'm making is that it's not going to be easy because most people have shares in the system that you're trying to rightly destroy.

Agreed, but if people really will start to understand what the NWO wants to do to this world they will realize that even people like Bill Gates are not safe from this NWO, basically anyone who isnt one of them is going to be enslaved, and that my fellow humanbeing is whole lot of us........like 6 billion more or less!

If we can get across that the NWO view us people (from Bill Gates to Poor african kid from Zimbabwe) as cattle, they too will awaken.

We should atleast try! Finally i see some of the humanbeing in you, thank you!

[mightiswrong]

Peacefully? Things can only change through understanding. The problem is, however that people like George Bush, Hillary Clinton and Gordon Brown do not want to understand.

The powers that be are irrelevant. We will grow around them.

All we need to do is create the reality we want. They can't stop us.

[king]

So it's going to be an Armageddon scenario, in which those who don't want to repent are thrown into some kind of abyss and the good people will inherit the earth?

look the people around you.
do you see awakened people around you with sparkle of life in their eyes or do you see drugged out zombies?

do you think they would say "I am not going to take it anymore" and do something about it, or will they pop open another can of bear, or order another McDonalds with fries and diet coke?

as far as repenting shit goes, if you want to put it in religious terms -- no, they will not repent, they will not change their ways, they will keep doing what they are doing -- living meaningless lives as long as they can. only when SHTF will they start to :

A: cry how life is not fair
B: whine about effects that they are feeling around them
C: blame someone else:;Arabs, Jews, Christians, Bush, Chenney, Teachers, Lawyers, Economy, price of oil...etc.

so, in order that natural order is to be restored -- parasitic way of life must be eradicated.

sad but true



but "Armageddon " may be a good thing for those that remain afterwards

[steevo]

When you can come up with the details, I may then change my mind or not... depending on the details you may or may not come up with!

The first step is to awaken the people and after that it will pretty much take care of it self (In a struggly sort of way lol). Awakened people would live in peace because they would understand what wars are REALLY about.

EVERYONE needs this knowledge not just the select few. Knowledge is power. Enpower yourself. Power to the People :D

[titurel]

Those "shares" that the people have in the current system are worthless really and once the mass awakening happens then they will be more willing to accept a "change" of sytems, yes it will be a struggle.. Anyway, the new "system" would let us all have "shares" not just the elite with the rest of the hangers on trying to pick up the scraps.
I agree but the battle os going to be very difficult, escpecially when everyone wants to be just another politician telling everyone else what they should do!

[titurel]

What! You just named 3 people out of 6 billion on the planet.
Yes and how many million criminals are there that you've got to supress?

[mightiswrong]

Politicians don't tell people what to do. They use violence to force people to do what they want.

[titurel]

Agreed, but if people really will start to understand what the NWO wants to do to this world they will realize that even people like Bill Gates are not safe from this NWO, basically anyone who isnt one of them is going to be enslaved, and that my fellow humanbeing is whole lot of us........like 6 billion more or less!

If we can get across that the NWO view us people (from Bill Gates to Poor african kid from Zimbabwe) as cattle, they too will awaken.

We should atleast try! Finally i see some of the humanbeing in you, thank you!
Yes, but people are growing weary of people telling others what they should do and acting like mini politicians!

[steevo]

Yes and how many million criminals are there that you've got to supress?

Cause and effect as I mentioned earlier.

[titurel]

The powers that be are irrelevant. We will grow around them.

All we need to do is create the reality we want. They can't stop us.
But it's going to be difficult. You say, "all we have to do"... but it's not as simple as you're trying to suggest! before you can win any battle, you first have to acknowledge the task and not underestimate it, otherwise disappointments may arise.

[titurel]

but "Armageddon " may be a good thing for those that remain afterwards
Yes, I do agree that Armageddon is coming...

[king]

Peacefully? Things can only change through understanding. The problem is, however that people like George Bush, Hillary Clinton and Gordon Brown do not want to understand.


and what about those OTHER people who did not want to "understand", you know those working for Bush and Brown?
Or those who worked for Hitler, Stalin, Lenin and other murderers?

What about those other millions of people who are (or were) forming the neck that turns the head of Bush, Brown, Stalin, Hitler and their ilk?

What about our next door neighbor who will report our "illegal activities" as soon as he is given chance to do so?

during time of war it is the easiest to see how dark part
of what we see as a human comes to front and takes over the control. thanks for those people, betrayal, imprisonment and mass slaughter of millions have occurred and will occur, as long as there are such people around.

so, we better watch out for those "friends" or neighbors of ours, who in order to come to some power will murder you and me for the crime of being different than they are.
Afterall, they voted for those "monsters" in power and in turn they became the monsters themselves.

[titurel]

Cause and effect as I mentioned earlier.
Meaning what exactly?

[steevo]

Yes, I do agree that Armageddon is coming...

And what are you gonna do about it ?

[titurel]

And what are you gonna do about it ?
In the meantime, I'm going to continue exposing the Luciferian Reptilian NWO agenda!

[mightiswrong]

But, but, but, but, but....

[steevo]

Meaning what exactly?

How to deal with criminals ? Criminals are a product of the system, they have been brainwashed (or they ARE the current system). For every effect there is a cause. To cut a long story short, the system has created the criminals. That is a mess that we will sort out. Any new "system" would make sure the cause is illiminated.

[cruise4]

I've read somewhere revolutions are achieved by only 5% who actually 'do'.

As regards Law... you make the ultimate decision, they just try to steer you in a direction desired by them. YOU choose what YOU do. Until you do that you are living in fear. I'll bet most here are paying Council Tax. Well that money is being used for EU enslavement. Thats YOUR choice if YOU pay it. Not theirs.

There's plenty on the cards that will help. Financial Collapse will sort the men from the boys with a bit of luck. I have reason to believe the troops know they are seen as cannon-fodder. Look whats happened in France lately. The police were 'shocked' at the violence they were facing, some 200 injured I believe. Imagine what they would face with serious deadly opposition. Remember they are bullies at heart and we know what happens to bullies once they face a taste of their own medicine. The people are 'mighty' unless they roll over...unstoppable. By the way Bill Gates is a top eugenics proponent. He deserves whatever he gets. I doubt there's ever been another man who singlehandedly has wasted so much human collective time ever.

It woudn't take long to get some serious weaponry off these people if things did kick off. You would be suprised whats about, well some of you.

Personally I think this thing is going to collapse around their ears. They may run. And as far as I can tell whatever is going on with the cosmos is a major player, probably 'the decider'.

[ichi wa zen]

In the meantime, I'm going to continue exposing the Luciferian Reptilian NWO agenda!

Dont mention that reptilian shapeshifting part, kinda makes it hard to believe. Dont mention the aliens from Mars part too which is pure crap IMHO!

Just mention that we are being controlled by a Satanic occult elite, that is more than enough for any person to handle :D

[titurel]

How to deal with criminals ? Criminals are a product of the system, they have been brainwashed (or they ARE the current system). For every effect there is a cause. To cut a long story short, the system has created the criminals. That is a mess that we will sort out. Any new "system" would make sure the cause is illiminated.
I agree that some criminals are the product of the system BUT some people would be criminals anyway,...

[titurel]

Dont mention that reptilian shapeshifting part, kinda makes it hard to believe. Dont mention the aliens from Mars part too which is pure crap IMHO!

Just mention that we are being controlled by a Satanic occult elite, that is more than enough for any person to handle :D
Don't tell other people what they should or should not do would be something you could take note of as a start in creating the type of world you want!

[steevo]

I agree that some criminals are the product of the system BUT some people would be criminals anyway,...

Is it nature or nurture ? Well, we will find out in the near future :)

[titurel]

Is it nature or nurture ? Well, we will find out in the near future
Yes, time will tell! :)

[ichi wa zen]

Don't tell other people what they should or should not do would be something you could take note of as a start in creating the type of world you want!

You have to tell this Truth in small steps, one step at a time.

I usually start with 9-11 wich was a real eyeopener then i gradually build my way up depending on how openminded this person is. The best way is to point people in the right direction and then let them decide on their own if those that are in control are really reptilians.

The words Illuminati and New World Order are more than enough to get them on the right track.

[adimon]

It is a historic fact that it is governments that fight each other. In the last cenuary alone hundreds of millions of people were killed by warring governments. I do not see how a few lootings by people who cleary wish to govern others can be described as anarchy when the definition of anarchy is the absense of rule.
Do these countries really matter in The End Game? If we can get 80% of the citizens of America, England, France, China, Japan, Israel, Iran, Turkey, Germany, Russia to know The Truth we will make it. Basically the pawns in The End Game need to be awakened!

Historically, states have indeed been largely the instigators of violence, but more and more, non-state actors are in control of violence, particularly in te Third World. Even if you awaken the majority of people in the West, how are you going to spread your 'truth' to the other places? Or don't you care? "Do these countries matter?" Yes, they do.

Murders, paedofiles, thieves etc happen for a reason. It's cause and effect. In the future we will not just treat the symptoms and the after effects like we do now. We will look at what is CAUSING it and illiminate the cause.


What do you see as the cause of crime, then, and how will the problem be addressed? Is it not principally either economic in nature or the result of 'evil'? Do you believe in evil? What possible ways would you look at to address this, post-revolution?

The people who are at war with mankind are not on the battlefields, they sit and watch the battle from thousands of miles away. They are cowards and will cower when the awakening happens.

What will they be cowering from? As titurel has said, there are lots of people willing to fight purely for money - look at the PMCs (fastest growing industry in the world right now) - and the 'cowards' have large funds you won't be able to remove from them just by awakening people. They will use those funds to protect themselves, no?

Ok so now i lack intelligence and im a stupid person? Stay on topic please, you are showing your real self, there is no more doubt in my mind that you are only here to further the agenda of the NWO.


You speak of unity, but jump at the first opportunity to use the tired old 'troll' argument.

Interesting.

You are beginning to sound like a government terrorist.

Ditto.

How do you guys expect to get more momentum behind your movement when you don't tolerate open debate without flinging accusations?

Destiny is anothers person manipulation, in this case the NWO. By taking destiny in our own hands we will be victorious! People, spread The Truth, The Truth hurts them more than anything!

How will the Truth hurt them? If what you believe is the truth, it remains so regardless of the number of people awake to it? How will the truth be used?

Just imagine 80% of America knowing The Truth, do you think a soldier would kill his own mother or father because he or she is ordered to by Bush? I think not!

They wouldn't kill their family, but they might kill yours if paid. (Sad but true)

Therefore all we have to do is spread The Truth to as many people as we can.

A nice idea, but not really a plan. I'm not fear-mongering, and IMO neither is titurel. We are both apparently trying to encourage you to develop a plan. I made reference to my ideas regarding how to bring about positive change, but it was instantly shot down, without discussion. If you're prepared to diss someone else's plan, but have no plan yourself, you look a bit naive, IMO.

Anyone smell a troll in the vicinity?

This is literal fearmongering, making snide insinuations so as to create hostility in your group towards an individual. You are shooting yourself in the foot.

Truth is a personal matter. What's truth to you may not be truth for your next door neighbour. You can't force people to accept YOUR truth because that's what dictators do!

Absolutely. Someone posted the film "Land of the Blind" on here a few weeks ago. Its a pretty good analogy of how many revolutions have been done in the name of good, but have almost instantly become bad. If you want to se titurel's main point, think of what you would feel like being someone who wasn't a Bolshevik in Russia in 1918. That's what it would feel like to be amongst the 20% you can't wake up in your proposed revolution.

Civil unrest is being caused by the governments lies not the truth.

Civil unrest is based on economic and political matters such as conflict and security. If people have the things they want and things are running smoothly, there will be no unrest. How will you ensure this occurs.
You also have the concept of who decides what the truth is. The 20% you can't wake up to YOUR truth in this theoretical scenario, will consider YOU to be the liar, and fight against you.
I personally don't agree with, for example, steevo, on a fair range of issues, although we both want a changed world. The exact structure of our desired worlds are probably quite different, so how are those differences to be reconciled. For instance, and I'm not saying I'm right, but lets say for instance steevo proposes a barter economy, but I want laissez-faire free market system. How do you resolve this amongst a group so large as the 80% of woken people?
What some of you posting on this thread seem to be saying is that my asking of these questions is somehow negative. But if you don't know the answers, then your revolution will fail, sadly.

Who ever said it was going to be easy?

Then make sure you develop a decent plan, which is backed by consensus.

Civil unrest sometimes occurs when people want to destroy government...

True.

Well none of us have a crystal ball titurel. You sound like you want us to predict the future EXACTLY. George Bush is a coward so why should I be frightened of a coward ? Stop trying to frighten us you wimp ;) Cos it wont work :D

Anyone seeing my point? Steevo - I have nothing against you, but why do you need to resort to these kind of posts. Do you generally feel like an attempt is being made to frighten you? By words? Maybe you don't want to consider our points of view...?

MWuahahHAhahahahha funny guy too, not its not going to be easy and a cup of tea type of ride.

So you rather have a Third World War and after thats over, a new religion led by Lucifer aka Satan where men will be enslaved? WOW nice future mate, id rather die standing than live on my 2 knees sucking the NWO's youknowwhat.

The remaining people will probably put in some Monarch Mindcontrol program where we will get tortured and raped by satanists daily. YAY! (This is only speculation, but hey, satanists are nuts :eek: )

You think the NWO is going to be nice?!?! Ha, ofcourse not, it will be a living hell. So rather try to stop it than accept it like the weakspirited person you are.

The above post in no way addresses the points raised by myself and titurel. It does not follow logically what is being said. You are now trying to put words in others' mouths, and are again bordering on suggesting that anyone who isn't WITH YOU is against YOU. This is the very definition of fundamentalism.

The powers that be are irrelevant. We will grow around them.

All we need to do is create the reality we want. They can't stop us.

How will you create the reality you want, even with the 80% theoretical situation? I see titurels point that these are very fluffy words indeed.

so, in order that natural order is to be restored -- parasitic way of life must be eradicated.

but "Armageddon " may be a good thing for those that remain afterwards

I for one don't want an armageddon scenario as a precursor to anything. What would you do about dissenters such as me in the midst of your revolution to bring it about?

The first step is to awaken the people and after that it will pretty much take care of it self

How will IT take care of ITSELF? What is IT?

Think hard people. Think hard.

[adimon]

Dont mention that reptilian shapeshifting part, kinda makes it hard to believe. Dont mention the aliens from Mars part too which is pure crap IMHO!

Just mention that we are being controlled by a Satanic occult elite, that is more than enough for any person to handle :D

In addition to the points I've raised above, how will you get 80% to wake up when you can't reach consensus of who the enemy is? (Btw, I don't think its reptiles either)

Is it nature or nurture ? Well, we will find out in the near future :)

We've seen that it's nature more than nurture. I recommend a book called "The Blank Slate" which explores this classic debate. I used to think it was an even balance between nature and nurture, but over the last 5 years I've seen more evidence that nature is the stronger force.

[mightiswrong]

This is literal fearmongering, making snide insinuations so as to create hostility in your group towards an individual. You are shooting yourself in the foot.

Nonsense. It is my honest opinion. I do not appreciate govt shills calling me an "extremist"

[titurel]

Anyone who is against the government wanting to defeat and destroy it is an extremist. You should be proud of what you are!

[adimon]

I do not appreciate govt shills calling me an "extremist"

From their point of view, they probably don't like being called govt shills :D

[ichi wa zen]

@adimon, where is your solution? Why are you only questioning our effort to think of something to get rid of these satanists?

Have we said we have the ultimate gameplan to get rid of them?
Have we said its going to be easy?
Have we said that our plans will succeed no matter what?

We are looking for a solution, lets not fight amongst each other!
We are in this shit together!
We have to think of a solution!

Please share your thoughts on how to make it work, please!

[ichi wa zen]

Anyone who is against the government wanting to defeat and destroy it is an extremist. You should be proud of what you are!

A government which kills it own people? Do they have the right to call a person who does not agree with them "an extremist"?

[titurel]

A government which kills it own people? Do they have the right to call a person who does not agree with them "an extremist"?
What's wrong with being called an extremist? An extremist is a devout indivualist, no? Nothing wrong with wanting to be devoutly individual as far as I can see, can you?

[mightiswrong]

For the record if you had not called people who believe they can create their own reality "extremists" I would not have considered you to be shilling for the government.

[ichi wa zen]

What's wrong with being called an extremist? An extremist is a devout indivualist, no? Nothing wrong with wanting to be devoutly individual as far as I can see, can you?

ex·trem·ist /ɪkˈstrimɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ik-stree-mist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who goes to extremes, esp. in political matters.
2. a supporter or advocate of extreme doctrines or practices.
–adjective

I support the Truth, is The Truth an extreme doctrine or practrice? How can the Truth be extreme?

Would i go to extremes to reach my goal? Never, i will never kill or hurt any living being (damn buddhism sucks, wish i was a satanist)

I dont like all these "boxes" created by them to give us a bad name that come with preconceived ideas and notions of being a bad person. I love the Truth, there is nothing wrong with that.

[steevo]

Originally Posted by steevo
Murders, paedofiles, thieves etc happen for a reason. It's cause and effect. In the future we will not just treat the symptoms and the after effects like we do now. We will look at what is CAUSING it and illiminate the cause.

Originally posted by Adimon
What do you see as the cause of crime, then, and how will the problem be addressed? Is it not principally either economic in nature or the result of 'evil'? Do you believe in evil? What possible ways would you look at to address this, post-revolution?

But yes the cause of crime IMO is to do with the "have's and the have nots" society and also brainwashing.
I dont think that I actually believe in "evil" but I'm not sure on that one.
Post revolution ? Assuming that we are all "awake" ? If we are all "awake" and dont live in a society designed for greed and crime, then greed and crime will go down to a very tiny amount (in theory, and it can only be a theory at this stage cos it hasnt happened yet).
If someone committed "crime" then the "awakened" local community where that criminal lives would look at what CAUSED him/her to do it with a view to illiminating the cause and take it from there :)
Adimon I will try to answer youre other stuff separately cos it gets complicated with all the quotes and unquotes I'm sure you'll agree.:)

[mightiswrong]

Anyone who is against the government wanting to defeat and destroy it is an extremist. You should be proud of what you are!

When did I say I wanted to "destroy the government"?

[titurel]

For the record if you had not called people who believe they can create their own reality "extremists" I would not have considered you to be shilling for the government.
Tit for tat only makes the world go more blind than it already is.

[titurel]

When did I say I wanted to "destroy the government"?

How dare you tell me what I am.
So you're not in favour of toppling the government then?

[titurel]

ex·trem·ist /ɪkˈstrimɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ik-stree-mist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who goes to extremes, esp. in political matters.
2. a supporter or advocate of extreme doctrines or practices.
–adjective

I support the Truth, is The Truth an extreme doctrine or practrice? How can the Truth be extreme?

Would i go to extremes to reach my goal? Never, i will never kill or hurt any living being (damn buddhism sucks, wish i was a satanist)

I dont like all these "boxes" created by them to give us a bad name that come with preconceived ideas and notions of being a bad person. I love the Truth, there is nothing wrong with that.
But many other people also vehemently claim to have the truth. You're truth cannot be everyone else's, unless you only speak of truth in the vaguest terms. Yes, we all want truth, yes, we all want peace and harmony. That is truth but as soon as one person starts telling another person what they should do or think, the person claiming to have the answers or the way, is immediately a new politician!

[mightiswrong]

I am in favour of growing around any perceived barriers to our progress.

[steevo]

So you're not in favour of toppling the government then?

We are trying to have a sensible constructive conversation here. No we're not in favour of "toppling the government". We intend to wake people up. And what happens next is up to you and everyone else.

[ichi wa zen]

So you're not in favour of toppling the government then?

Im in favour of toppling The Illuminati aka NWO not the governments, the governments are as innocent as the people. The American goverment didnt do anything, The Illuminati aka NWO did.

[titurel]

We are trying to have a sensible constructive conversation here. No we're not in favour of "toppling the government". We intend to wake people up. And what happens next is up to you and everyone else.
I just wanted to clarify that you're NOT in favour of toppling Her Majesty's Government. That's all! Thanks! I'm sure the Queen will be happy with your reply, although it was a bit open ended and similar to an open ended politician's reply! LOL

[adimon]

@adimon, where is your solution?

My belief is that reform is a far better means of change than revolution.

The first stage of my plan is the same as yours - dissemination of information as a way to inform and encourage the general populace to get involved. You call it 'waking them up' I would say 'tackle apathy' but its much the same thing.

The next stage would be the legislature necessary to radically alter the UK's political system and (as much as possible) prohibit corruption.

For me, as a republican, this would mean dilution of the monarchy, abolition of an unelected chamber, and a modernised parliamentary system.

The third stage would be implementation of further policies which would directly combat the infrastructures which allow the hidden agendas to be created and applied.

I understand this is quite vague, but I am happy to go into detail on any part of it, step by step, if need be.

Its by no means foolproof, but getting a weight of people behind liberal democracy is preferable to me than a revolution/'armageddon then pick up the pieces' scenario.

The most interesting concept for me is the relationship between the knowledge and beliefs of the electorate, and the policy which takes place. As many have correctly established, that relationship is currently occupied by propaganda. The waking up you advocate is all very well, but with democracy, you don't have to have 80% behind you, but neither will there be fighting when the election is won.

One last thing - first past the post is bollocks. We need to change the electoral system as well. Nearly every other democracy has a better system.

And to save time, yes I am aware that a large proportion of you believe that UK politics is completely fixed. I disagree.

[ichi wa zen]

But many other people also vehemently claim to have the truth. You're truth cannot be everyone else's, unless you only speak of truth in the vaguest terms. Yes, we all want truth, yes, we all want peace and harmony. That is truth but as soon as one person starts telling another person what they should do or think, the person claiming to have the answers or the way, is immediately a new politician!

I dont have my Truth, The Truth i know, is reality as it is, The Truth i came aware of was behind 9-11, WOI, WOII and tons of other evil stuff.

So my Truth is not an opinion, its Reality as it is.

[titurel]

Im in favour of toppling The Illuminati aka NWO not the governments, the governments are as innocent as the people. The American goverment didnt do anything, The Illuminati aka NWO did.
So you're in favour of government but not one that's controlled by the illuminati. Will this utopian government contain politicians?

[steevo]

Originally Posted by steevo
The people who are at war with mankind are not on the battlefields, they sit and watch the battle from thousands of miles away. They are cowards and will cower when the awakening happens.

Originally Posted by adimon
What will they be cowering from? As titurel has said, there are lots of people willing to fight purely for money - look at the PMCs (fastest growing industry in the world right now) - and the 'cowards' have large funds you won't be able to remove from them just by awakening people. They will use those funds to protect themselves, no?

Cowering from guilt or maybe fear I dont know what is in the mind of a bully. You tell me ;)
Their funds will become worthless. And theirfore, it wont benefit them. They are using "their" funds RIGHT NOW to protect themselves and their interests.

[ichi wa zen]

My belief is that reform is a far better means of change than revolution.

The first stage of my plan is the same as yours - dissemination of information as a way to inform and encourage the general populace to get involved. You call it 'waking them up' I would say 'tackle apathy' but its much the same thing.

The next stage would be the legislature necessary to radically alter the UK's political system and (as much as possible) prohibit corruption.

For me, as a republican, this would mean dilution of the monarchy, abolition of an unelected chamber, and a modernised parliamentary system.

The third stage would be implementation of further policies which would directly combat the infrastructures which allow the hidden agendas to be created and applied.

I understand this is quite vague, but I am happy to go into detail on any part of it, step by step, if need be.

Its by no means foolproof, but getting a weight of people behind liberal democracy is preferable to me than a revolution/'armageddon then pick up the pieces' scenario.

The most interesting concept for me is the relationship between the knowledge and beliefs of the electorate, and the policy which takes place. As many have correctly established, that relationship is currently occupied by propaganda. The waking up you advocate is all very well, but with democracy, you don't have to have 80% behind you, but neither will there be fighting when the election is won.

One last thing - first past the post is bollocks. We need to change the electoral system as well. Nearly every other democracy has a better system.

And to save time, yes I am aware that a large proportion of you believe that UK politics is completely fixed. I disagree.

Thanks Adimon, i really appreciate your answer. We agree on the first step which also is the most important step. Lets make step 1 become reality and after that we will make you our leader so you can think of the next step we should take :D :p

People we need to come together, if we, the people who know the Truth, cannot set our petty differences aside on how to tackle this NWO, than our beautiful planet Earth surely is gone forever!

We are the people who can set this chain of awakening in motion, we have to realize this!!!!!

http://goopstechnologies.com/EarthAS17.jpg

I love this beatiful blue thingy and i know you do too! Lets fight for it!
We can and will make it! Im going to bed now, its way past my bedtime. Love to all!

[steevo]

How will IT take care of ITSELF? What is IT?
Think hard people. Think hard.

I think alot of IT will take care of ITself whether you like that answer or not.

If you want a specific question answered then ask something specific and I will try to answer cos obviously I have all the answers :rolleyes: :D

[adimon]

What's wrong with being called an extremist? An extremist is a devout indivualist, no? Nothing wrong with wanting to be devoutly individual as far as I can see, can you?

There are many dangers in being devoutly individualistic. I'm not a socialist, but humans have always been social in order to provide security and therefore survival. One thing Icke has raised which I DO agree with is the concept of divisive bullshit like nationality! And religion :D

Robert Anton Wilson has some good ideas on this concept.

For the record if you had not called people who believe they can create their own reality "extremists" I would not have considered you to be shilling for the government.

But you made the accusation before seeking clarification as to titurel's definition or usage of the word. Hint: Semantics are less insulting than name-calling.

ex·trem·ist /ɪkˈstrimɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ik-stree-mist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who goes to extremes, esp. in political matters.
2. a supporter or advocate of extreme doctrines or practices.
–adjective

I support the Truth, is The Truth an extreme doctrine or practrice? How can the Truth be extreme?

Would i go to extremes to reach my goal? Never, i will never kill or hurt any living being (damn buddhism sucks, wish i was a satanist)

I dont like all these "boxes" created by them to give us a bad name that come with preconceived ideas and notions of being a bad person. I love the Truth, there is nothing wrong with that.

My definition of an extremist is someone who would do anything for their supposed belief. Would I risk my life for the causes I support - yes, in appropriate circumstances? Would I risk or threaten others' lives? Not so readily.

But yes the cause of crime IMO is to do with the "have's and the have nots" society and also brainwashing.

It is more to do with that for some crimes. Human nature supercedes for others, though.

I dont think that I actually believe in "evil" but I'm not sure on that one.

I didn't used to know for sure either. Reading about serial killers, tyrants and evil deviants has confirmed it for me. I don't claim to be an expert at understanding it, but it should be addressed, presumably by those with the best understanding of it, that also hold dear the appropriate values.

Goebbels killed his own kids with no remorse just before killing himself. This is just one example of why I believe evil is real.

I don't believe in evil as an absolute, but I do believe that certain things are abhorrent and will always be taboo. Others are taboo for no good reason - i.e. heterosexual anal sex, which was illegal until relatively recently.



Ok.

[QUOTE=titurel;206411]So you're not in favour of toppling the government then?

People should decide for themselves whether it is the idea of government or the current governments agenda which they want to topple. Anarchy is inherently impossible. The strong will always govern the weak, but what 'govern' means in this context is something that every person can have a say in. Govern does not have to mean the same thing in 20yrs time. (That, btw, is the kind of timeline I'm looking at for reform.)

Im in favour of toppling The Illuminati aka NWO not the governments, the governments are as innocent as the people. The American goverment didnt do anything, The Illuminati aka NWO did.

Lets say you have a revolution in the UK. How do intend to prevent NWO agents from infiltrating the new system?

I dont have my Truth, The Truth i know, is reality as it is, The Truth i came aware of was behind 9-11, WOI, WOII and tons of other evil stuff.

So my Truth is not an opinion, its Reality as it is.

Believing that your truth is The Truth is very dangerous Ichi... :)

So you're in favour of government but not one that's controlled by the illuminati. Will this utopian government contain politicians?

What does the word politician mean to you titurel? Do you believe anarchy can work?

[adimon]

Cowering from guilt or maybe fear I dont know what is in the mind of a bully. You tell me ;)
Their funds will become worthless. And theirfore, it wont benefit them. They are using "their" funds RIGHT NOW to protect themselves and their interests.

Why would you want me to tell you what is in the mind of a bully? Do you think I am a bully? What is a bully steevo?

How will funds become useless? I have given you an example of how they will be useful to the people you wish to overthrow - the hiring of armed forces. This will benefit them. How will you overcome this?

Thanks Adimon, i really appreciate your answer. We agree on the first step which also is the most important step. Lets make step 1 become reality and after that we will make you our leader so you can think of the next step we should take :D :p

I don't want to be the leader Ichi. I've seen the stress involved from close up. I want an involved role, but not leader. Leaders are very unique people indeed at dealing with stress.

I think alot of IT will take care of ITself whether you like that answer or not.

If you want a specific question answered then ask something specific and I will try to answer cos obviously I have all the answers :rolleyes: :D

OK, several have now been asked since the above post was made. :)

[steevo]

Originally Posted by steevo
But yes the cause of crime IMO is to do with the "have's and the have nots" society and also brainwashing.

Originally Posted by Adimon
It is more to do with that for some crimes. Human nature supercedes for others, though.

Which crimes do you mean ? Sex crimes ? The number of sex crimes is massive in a western society. TV and other media is the main culprit. Plus men and women are a divided people cos of brainwashing. Alot of men dont even think they have a role nowadays.

Also, in the future any "mainstream media" will not be brainwashing people into thinking that beautiful people LOOK a certain way.

[steevo]

Originally Posted by steevo
Cowering from guilt or maybe fear I dont know what is in the mind of a bully. You tell me
Their funds will become worthless. And theirfore, it wont benefit them. They are using "their" funds RIGHT NOW to protect themselves and their interests.

Why would you want me to tell you what is in the mind of a bully? Do you think I am a bully? What is a bully steevo?

Originally Posted by adimon
How will funds become useless? I have given you an example of how they will be useful to the people you wish to overthrow - the hiring of armed forces. This will benefit them. How will you overcome this?

Re-read it. I never called you a bully.
Well as I told you their money would be useless because food etc would become far more valuble than "money" and pieces of green paper. We could have a moneyless society.

But if they DID want to try anything like that (by paying soldiers) then it would only be possible for the bloodbath that you are expecting, if the "soldiers" were NOT "awakened" and still brainwashed.
SO WE NEED TO KEEP WAKING PEOPLE UP :)

Would YOU be one of those soldiers Adimon ?

[adimon]

Which crimes do you mean ? Sex crimes ? The number of sex crimes is massive in a western society. TV and other media is the main culprit. Plus men and women are a divided people cos of brainwashing. Alot of men dont even think they have a role nowadays.

Also, in the future any "mainstream media" will not be brainwashing people into thinking that beautiful people LOOK a certain way.

Murder is a crime that has more to do with human nature than environmental factors.

Most murders are not committed by serial killers or psychopaths but by people you become irrational and commit 'crimes of passion or due to panic.

I agree with your points about the gender division. Disagree that the mainstream media brainwash people about beauty. Everyone has their own idea about what is beautiful. Some men like women with big/small/medium/pendulous breasts, for example. I think celebrities are used as sex objects to sell, and there is less variety among them than in the non-celebrity world, but I think beauty is always going to be in the eye of the beholder. Get it out with Optrex.

[mightiswrong]

Most murders are not committed by serial killers or psychopaths but by people you become irrational and commit 'crimes of passion or due to panic.

The overwhelming majority of murder is committed by government organisations such as the military. Fact.

"THE law perverted! The law—and, in its wake, all the collective forces of the nation—
the law, I say, not only diverted from its proper direction, but made to pursue one entirely
contrary! The law become the tool of every kind of avarice, instead of being its check!
The law guilty of that very iniquity which it was its mission to punish! Truly, this is a
serious fact, if it exists, and one to which I feel bound to call the attention of my fellowcitizens.
We hold from God the gift which, as far as we are concerned, contains all others, Life—
physical, intellectual, and moral life.
But life cannot support itself. He who has bestowed it, has entrusted us with the care of
supporting it, of developing it, and of perfecting it. To that end, He has provided us with
a collection of wonderful faculties; He has plunged us into the midst of a variety of
elements. It is by the application of our faculties to these elements, that the phenomena of
assimilation and of appropriation, by which life pursues the circle which has been
assigned to it, are realized.
Existence, faculties, assimilation—in other words, personality, liberty, property—this is
man.
It is of these three things that it may be said, apart from all demagogue subtlety, that they
are anterior and superior to all human legislation.
It is not because men have made laws, that personality, liberty, and property exist. On the
contrary, it is because personality, liberty, and property exist beforehand, that men make
laws. What, then, is law? As I have said elsewhere, it is the collective organization of the
individual right to lawful defense.
Nature, or rather God, has bestowed upon every one of us the right to defend his person,
his liberty, and his property, since these are the three constituent or preserving elements
of life; elements, each of which is rendered complete by the others, and cannot be
understood without them. For what are our faculties, but the extension of our personality?
and what is property, but an extension of our faculties?
If every man has the right of defending, even by force, his person, his liberty, and his
property, a number of men have the right to combine together, to extend, to organize a
common force, to provide regularly for this defense.
Collective right, then, has its principle, its reason for existing, its lawfulness, in individual
right; and the common force cannot rationally have any other end, or any other mission,
than that of the isolated forces for which it is substituted. Thus, as the force of an
individual cannot lawfully touch the person, the liberty, or the property of another
individual—for the same reason, the common force cannot lawfully be used to destroy
the person, the liberty, or the property of individuals or of classes."
http://www.mises.org/books/thelaw.pdf

[steevo]

Murder is a crime that has more to do with human nature than environmental factors.

Most murders are not committed by serial killers or psychopaths but by people you become irrational and commit 'crimes of passion or due to panic.

I agree with your points about the gender division. Disagree that the mainstream media brainwash people about beauty. Everyone has their own idea about what is beautiful. Some men like women with big/small/medium/pendulous breasts, for example. I think celebrities are used as sex objects to sell, and there is less variety among them than in the non-celebrity world, but I think beauty is always going to be in the eye of the beholder. Get it out with Optrex.

Yes optrex has it's uses lol
"Most Murders" GENERALLY SPEAKING ....

In the future ALL crimes would reduce by getting rid of crap/propaganda on TV brainwashing us. We would have a REAL community where we would care and love our kids and teach them REAL knowledge, even about the ugly stuff, we will tell them what it used to be like and how to avoid it coming back again.

[adimon]

Re-read it. I never called you a bully.

I didn't say you WERE calling me a bully, but you said

I dont know what is in the mind of a bully. You tell me

which led me to ask you whether you thought I was a bully. I was asking, not stating. I'm glad you weren't calling me, but you have to see it from my point of view, it's not the first time our debates have, shall we say, become personal about ME. I know you put a ;) next to your comment, but there's a lot of ambiguity in smilies. I have a love-hate relationship with IT in general, but especially smilies. I hate them, but I find myself using them ALL the time :D

Well as I told you their money would be useless because food etc would become far more valuble than "money" and pieces of green paper. We could have a moneyless society.

If you were to abolish currency you would not have my support. I don't believe in the long-term validity of a barter economy. I believe there are many changes we should make to banking etc.. but I want to keep the pound please. I don't care if its called a pound, a dollar or a Dollarpound (as in Red Dwarf) but I don't want to have to barter or be subsident.

But if they DID want to try anything like that (by paying soldiers) then it would only be possible for the bloodbath that you are expecting, if the "soldiers" were NOT "awakened" and still brainwashed.
SO WE NEED TO KEEP WAKING PEOPLE UP :)

And what effect would this have on the awakened ones? Do you not think that there would be some who would want to fight, and others who would say "NOT IN OUR NAME!" and create further division. Revolution has happened so many times, according to the same set of basic dynamics, it's fairly predictable IMO.

Would YOU be one of those soldiers Adimon ?

Would I ever fight purely for money...no.

Would I fight in defence of the values I hold dear...yes.

[adimon]

The overwhelming majority of murder is committed by government organisations such as the military. Fact.


http://www.mises.org/books/thelaw.pdf

I'm sorry but if you're bringing God into it at all, I don't want to have any part of this 'future'. God is delusion IMO. The very definition of submission and domination.

Yes optrex has it's uses lol
"Most Murders" GENERALLY SPEAKING ....

In the future ALL crimes would reduce by getting rid of crap/propaganda on TV brainwashing us. We would have a REAL community where we would care and love our kids and teach them REAL knowledge, even about the ugly stuff, we will tell them what it used to be like and how to avoid it coming back again.

Its a nice idea. But I don't think TV is responsible for all crimes. I think its a lot more complicated than that. Happy to agree to disagree about crime and move on, if you want. :)

[mightiswrong]

I'm sorry but if you're bringing God into it at all, I don't want to have any part of this 'future'. God is delusion IMO. The very definition of submission and domination.

Interesting but no I am not. Are you saying that you have not read the law by Bastiat before?
http://www.mises.org/books/thelaw.pdf

[steevo]

If you were to abolish currency you would not have my support. I don't believe in the long-term validity of a barter economy. I believe there are many changes we should make to banking etc.. but I want to keep the pound please. I don't care if its called a pound, a dollar or a Dollarpound (as in Red Dwarf) but I don't want to have to barter or be subsident.

Well those are my opinions but I have my fellow man at heart and not my pocket.

And what effect would this have on the awakened ones? Do you not think that there would be some who would want to fight, and others who would say "NOT IN OUR NAME!" and create further division. Revolution has happened so many times, according to the same set of basic dynamics, it's fairly predictable IMO.

Well we will just have to see what happens wont we. All I know is that it will be worth it IMO.

Would I ever fight purely for money...no.

Would I fight in defence of the values I hold dear...yes.

Well you say that you was in the forces before, did you not get paid ? Were you getting paid to fight to defend your values (or you THOUGHT you were defending them) ?
You werent on the frontline so I shouldnt use the word "fight". No offence meant there adimon.

[titurel]

God is delusion IMO. The very definition of submission and domination.
It's actually Satan the Devil who is the very definition of submission and domination. Don't believe the Satanic lies of the illuminati who, in secret revile God and who actually worship Satan the Devil, who disguises him or herself as an angel bringing Light because that is what they believe. The picture Christendom paints of God is not the God that's described in the Bible. God said he didn't want one man to lord over another. God said he didn't want his people to be ruled by kings. God also did not want men to build temples and churches. All these things are man's creations and they were erected and established to worship Satan the Devil and to despise God. They have sullied God's good name and have given God a perverse image. Thus, many people unconsciously fall into Satan the Devil's cunning, crafty and subtle plan of unwittingly mocking God. People have been mind controlled to believe God is about submission and domination, when in fact the opposite is the case. Naturally, this state of affairs falls directly into Satan the Devil's plans because while people are hating God, Satan the Devil brings more people into submission and he dominates them. Dominated people, many hating their domination but at the same time, they rail against God. No wonder Dante said it was a Divine Comedy!

[mightiswrong]

Good post titurel. :)

[adimon]

Well those are my opinions but I have my fellow man at heart and not my pocket.

I have values at heart, but a barter economy is not practical, and I think my fellow man would be worse of using that than using currency. Neither system is inherently good or bad, it's the way it is controlled which defines that. But there is an inherent practicality. Not all of us wanna live in the countryside.

Well you say that you was in the forces before, did you not get paid ? Were you getting paid to fight to defend your values (or you THOUGHT you were defending them) ?
You werent on the frontline so I shouldnt use the word "fight". No offence meant there adimon.

I don't think its a good idea for us to cover this, given your single-minded view of the armed forces. Lets concentrate on other areas of debate on this excellent thread, where we can agree to keep personal views out of it. You posting that makes me think you are trying to trap me into an argument, since you are essentially repeating points I have already counter-argued n other threads in which you were behaving with hostility. I also think you are stubborn as to the level of your knowledge on the topic.

In contrast, the points you've been making regarding your view of a revolution etc have been very good, and I've enjoyed debating hashing it out with you.

Interesting but no I am not. Are you saying that you have not read the law by Bastiat before?
http://www.mises.org/books/thelaw.pdf

I have read it, but can't say I agree with much of it. Bastiat makes numerous mentions of God, which is what I was referring to. What I should have said is no vision of the future for me would have any power in the hands of the religious groups, except over their own affairs. And they would be subject to the same law as anyone else - secular law. I'm guessing that you don't like the idea of law in your utopia? Or am I misjudging again?

It's actually Satan the Devil who is the very definition of submission and domination. Don't believe the Satanic lies of the illuminati who, in secret revile God and who actually worship Satan the Devil, who disguises him or herself as an angel bringing Light because that is what they believe. The picture Christendom paints of God is not the God that's described in the Bible. God said he didn't want one man to lord over another. God said he didn't want his people to be ruled by kings. God also did not want men to build temples and churches. All these things are man's creations and they were erected and established to worship Satan the Devil and to despise God. They have sullied God's good name and have given God a perverse image. Thus, many people unconsciously fall into Satan the Devil's cunning, crafty and subtle plan of unwittingly mocking God. People have been mind controlled to believe God is about submission and domination, when in fact the opposite is the case. Naturally, this state of affairs falls directly into Satan the Devil's plans because while people are hating God, Satan the Devil brings more people into submission and he dominates them. Dominated people, many hating their domination but at the same time, they rail against God. No wonder Dante said it was a Divine Comedy!

For me, neither God nor Satan exist and any worship or revulsion of them is a total waste of time. Man made God, not the other way around.

[titurel]

For me, neither God nor Satan exist and any worship or revulsion of them is a total waste of time. Man made God, not the other way around.
Unfortunately, neither of us has proof the other is wrong but only time will tell! IMO, man often tries to kill God.

[adimon]

Unfortunately, neither of us has proof the other is wrong but only time will tell! IMO, man often tries to kill God.

Sure, but I don't trouble myself with the burden of proof. Increasingly, your camp is going to be harder and harder pressed to convince anybody at all. Religion is on it's way out as a powerbase. Secularity is the future.

[dondaz]

Hey John, I missed this thread. Been busy.

"The shape of our near future"
Is the collapse of the illusion
That the people are in control
To be replaced with the actuality
Of the people taking control

Yes, this is what we have to do. Stop following the leader. I'll go for that one anyday. You put it in a goood way mate.

Cheers John:)

[titurel]

Sure, but I don't trouble myself with the burden of proof. Increasingly, your camp is going to be harder and harder pressed to convince anybody at all. Religion is on it's way out as a powerbase. Secularity is the future.
Actually, as prophecy is being fulfilled, it's becoming easier and easier to see that there are super natural forces behind world events, but contrary to what you wrote, I'm not out to prove anything to anyone. As I already said, I don't claim to have proof either but time will tell! Organised religion, I agree, with you, is part of the problem. Revelation calls her Babylon the Great, the Harlot of Rome who fornicted with the kings of the world and got into bed with politicians. The religion of money, however, is emerging as the biggest faith on the planet. It's only since globalism that the world can reel to and fro like drunkard...

"The earth will reel to and fro like a drunkard, And it will totter like a shack." - Isaiah 24:17-23; 25:1

[king]

I for one don't want an armageddon scenario as a precursor to anything. What would you do about dissenters such as me in the midst of your revolution to bring it about?



How will IT take care of ITSELF? What is IT?

Think hard people. Think hard.


neither do I -- I do not want Armageddon.
but i am looking this thing from outside in, as a realist, and that is what i see, and the reson I see it that way is because majority of people do not give a shit, until it hits them.

[adimon]

neither do I -- I do not want Armageddon.
but i am looking this thing from outside in, as a realist, and that is what i see, and the reson I see it that way is because majority of people do not give a shit, until it hits them.

Ah ok, thats interesting. I consider myself a realist, and have a different view of the future, but I guess we are realists coming from different origina standpoints. Do you think that a cataclysmic event, such as a revolution, or armageddon is inevitable, or just likely?

[mightiswrong]

I have read it, but can't say I agree with much of it. Bastiat makes numerous mentions of God, which is what I was referring to. What I should have said is no vision of the future for me would have any power in the hands of the religious groups, except over their own affairs. And they would be subject to the same law as anyone else - secular law. I'm guessing that you don't like the idea of law in your utopia? Or am I misjudging again?

But the essay on the law has nothing to do with God so it seems odd that you would dismiss such an important piece of work on the basis of an indirect connection to God.

Had you read the Law you would not be asking me condescending questions about "my lawless utopia".

[adimon]

But the essay on the law has nothing to do with God so it seems odd that you would dismiss such an important piece of work on the basis of an indirect connection to God.

Had you read the Law you would not be asking me condescending questions about "my lawless utopia".

I'm not dismissing it. I was merely introducing my realist/atheistic viewpoint to the utopian concept.

I have read the Law, but as I said I disagree with it. What's the matter, do you want some sort of literary standoff? :D

Your Bastiat versus my Mearsheimer? How am I condescending? If you open the door, be prepared to step through, I say. Why would you introduce Bastiat if you're not at least a partial subscriber to his extreme viewpoint?

[king]

Ah ok, thats interesting. I consider myself a realist, and have a different view of the future, but I guess we are realists coming from different origina standpoints. Do you think that a cataclysmic event, such as a revolution, or armageddon is inevitable, or just likely?

i think it is just likely

[mightiswrong]

I think it is very unlikely. Not because I can not see why people would believe it is likely but because I do not wish to help a negative reality manifest. A positive vision is what we need because we create reality.

[adimon]

I think it is very unlikely. Not because I can not see why people would believe it is likely but because I do not wish to help a negative reality manifest. A positive vision is what we need because we create reality.

Hey, we agree on something, mightiswrong. I think it is unlikely too! :)

[mightiswrong]

Good to hear that we agree.


"The shape of our near future"

Is the collapse of the illusion

That the people are in control

To be replaced with the actuality

Of the people taking control



Please discuss...

[adimon]

This really is an excellent thread and some good ideas have emerged from all concerned so far.

I think I will now apply my trade directly to the initial question:-

"The shape of our near future is the collapse of the illusion that the people are in control, to be replaced with the actuality of the people taking control?"

The people can 'take control' by making sure that control really means control and not 'direction'. If a new policy requires change to a matter of law and order, Gordon Brown, Jacqui Smith and others will discuss, but what goes on inside the Home Office is where the control is lost.

Near future? My guess is that reform would take 15-20 years to get back control. It might be as less as 10 if parliamentary reforms can be established quickly enough which makes the House of Commons more efficient. From there, the decentralisation needs to occur, so that local government feeds in directly and electronically to Parliament, and vice versa. All of these dynamics need to be monitored and controlled by democratically elected people - no Common Purpose here thank you!

[mightiswrong]

Interesting. :confused:

[viginti tres]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KW8DRSvEoQ&eurl=http://www.redicecreations.com/mtsarforum/viewtopic.php?t=17

Great thread John.....in fact the only one in a long time that I feel is worthy of a response, but thats beside the point.

In order to create a world of peace and prosperity, a utopia if you will, then the constraints of the system that is designed to justify its continual presence under the guise of "without the system mayhem would prevail" must first be bypassed (notice how I say by-passed and not destroyed, I'll get to why in a moment). This is ofcourse is the first stepping stone to our freedom.

We seem to be caught in a long line of problem thinking and most of what I see on this forum is a group of people aimlessly swinging shit at each other. If thats your perogative.....fine, waste your time. I for one am beginning to adopt solution think in all facets of my life, as this is much more productive.

How can we enact change if we are still caught in the illusion that we are somehow reliant on a form of government, monetary and law based system. We need none of these things in a world where truth is on the lips of every human and love replaces law. We would finally clear the smog enough to see that to live is to love and to love is to live.

But alas how do we get to the point of realisation without adopting the traits of those we seek to overcome. And indeed if it is all up to us and the celestial changes going on will in no way impart greater awarness, then how do we spread the word. How do we get the blind to see that they really are not free?

How can we justify wanting a utopia when the price is payed in blood? It need not be this way. Spreading the truth in an open and non preaching manner is a start, but is certainly no solution. Just as TPTB have carefully orchestrated their world plan by a gradual inclination towards total control, we must also adopt a step by step approuch to enacting a solution, rather than thinking that we will just all wake up (as great as that would be we must be realistic here people).

There are so many steps that need to be taken before we "take the power back" and the first is survival. Some friends and I have been discussing it and we believe that the first step is connecting people all over the globe and initiating a barta system to ensure everyone is adequatly nourished, clothed and sheltered. This would in time unite all fair minded and peaceful people as those that seek greed or are in any way narcissistic, sociopathic or psychotic will reveal themselves and their motives, as the barta community would be based on fairness and trust.

BTW, you need not adopt a rural lifestyle to make barta work for you as all services will be needed and can be exchanged for items of need or interest or work that needs doing (i.e. I have a garden and grow apples, I will swap you some apples if you fix my plumbing etc. etc.) and this will be the first step in not only denying TPTB part of their control over us, but also would bring people together for the common good and would ensure that no-one is left without the necessities.

I see this and ofcourse teaching people the basics of survival as the first step to freedom and yes there are many steps that need to be taken. Spreading the truth is equally important as this will wake many, and hopefully the double-edged sword will eventually awaken the rest, with every erosion of personal freedom a soul on this earth is reborn into the knowledge that they are not free.

.....and remember, be like water.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ0RF_QetSQ&eurl=http://www.redicecreations.com/mtsarforum/viewtopic.php?t=9

Power to the Peaceful.

Mitchell.

[adimon]

Nice post viginti tres. :)

I have a couple of questions for you regarding your proposed vision of a barter economy.

First, who pays doctors?

Secondly, how does new technological innovation fare?

Cheers

Chris

[viginti tres]

Nice post viginti tres. :)

I have a couple of questions for you regarding your proposed vision of a barter economy.

First, who pays doctors?

Secondly, how does new technological innovation fare?

Cheers

Chris

I've been thinking about this.....


Why would we need to pay them if they have no need for money.........doctors are performing a service and hence will have what they need provided for them by the patients and families of the patients they see.

....as with technological innovation, I think that a community based approach is the way to go, we will naturally steer clear of any technology that is designed to harm and to kill as this will lead us to the path of destruction, to stupify or thrill, as we will have no need of escapism in a world of love and would naturally seek technological innovations that will aid humanity and the Earth in evolving.

The manpower needed for such projects, would ofcourse need some form of incentive to do the work, so for this work maybe housing, food and clothing as well as any other necessity's could be exchanged for the work...

Obviously such a subject warrants much more analysis and fine tuning, but this is something we can do right now to bring some much needed change.......

Power to the Peaceful

Mitchell.

[adimon]

What about the control of food? Who decides where it goes, and whether any of it is exported i.e. leaves the community?

The same for land - how would land be divided?

Would you have laws?

Would any behaviour be prohibited?

Thank you for sharing.

[viginti tres]

What about the control of food? Who decides where it goes, and whether any of it is exported i.e. leaves the community?

The same for land - how would land be divided?

Would you have laws?

Would any behaviour be prohibited?

Thank you for sharing.

Thanks for the questions........

The sharing of food will first and foremost nourish the immediate community and all will be shared fairly, the food that is left over after everyone in the community has been fed can then be exported to those in need.

Land would be divided equally with exceptions for those that require more land (i.e. farming etc.) yet no one will actually own the land ( I tend to agree with the Native American Indians, how can we own land......IMO we cannot) yet will be safe and secure in their new home. When the person or persons occupying that house pass away it will go to the person who needs it most.

Love is the law, love all, and you need no laws......The barta solution is not only a means to sustain ourselves but would also act as a buffer against those of malicious intent, though obviously there will be exceptions. Ofcourse this will be a gradual process, perhaps the desire for greed, violence and all the other dark aspects of humanity will gradually dissipate with an environment of love and peace......

Once again I feel that we will have no need to prohibit this or that as the psyche and soul of the individual evolves into a state of harmony, such actions that have the need for prohibition will become obsolete as they are seen as de-volving the human rather than evolving.

More than anything I see the Barta solution as a catalyst to empowering the people. If people are able to aquire all they need without reliance on the system than they will be more inclined to enact change. This has been the greatest obstacle in people taking their power back in my experience.

How will we win....together.

Power to the Peaceful.

Mitchell.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[john white]

Hi gang

Thought it was about time I got back into this thread!

Its wonderful that we are all having a big sharing of views here

How this thread started was Malvern popped over to my place for a cuppa and we were chatting away (discusing some ideas we are working on to have another go at getting Malvern Messages (my local community forum) shifting). And we were talking about the various five-sense issues we've spotted that the local paper wont touch that MM could give a voice too

As is the way of conversation, this little phrase just popped out: seemed to have a vitality and relevance all of its own. And Im in the habit of grabbing a pen and scribbling these things down (good habit btw, I reccomend it)

Well, what to do, but give it to the forum of course

.... ah! well I was going to expand into a large post but suddenly that pesky reality matrix calls on my time so... laters!

But love the thread, so thanks to all for what you've done with it

[cruise4]

Hi Viginti tres, I've had a few of these new social system conversations and essentially agree with your starting postion. It might be interesting to see what people would barter, services, what do they have surplus of etc.

At the risk of standing out like a sore thumb:

I could offer labour, computer skills, information, music, fruit, food.

[titurel]

"The shape of our near future is the collapse of the illusion that the people are in control, to be replaced with the actuality of the people taking control?"

The people can 'take control' by making sure that control really means control and not 'direction'. If a new policy requires change to a matter of law and order, Gordon Brown, Jacqui Smith and others will discuss, but what goes on inside the Home Office is where the control is lost.

Near future? My guess is that reform would take 15-20 years to get back control. It might be as less as 10 if parliamentary reforms can be established quickly enough which makes the House of Commons more efficient. From there, the decentralisation needs to occur, so that local government feeds in directly and electronically to Parliament, and vice versa. All of these dynamics need to be monitored and controlled by democratically elected people - no Common Purpose here thank you!
The problem is, the system is too fundamentally flawed to be repaired and you're also not taking into account the occult forces that underpin it.

[ichi wa zen]

How can we enact change if we are still caught in the illusion that we are somehow reliant on a form of government, monetary and law based system. We need none of these things in a world where truth is on the lips of every human and love replaces law. We would finally clear the smog enough to see that to live is to love and to love is to live.

Beautiful words. Thank you! If we keep depending on old ways to be able to live we will never create an utopia. Do we need a monetary system? Do we need a government? Do we need laws?

If the people are "corrupt", then yes i think we would need all of the above.

But, when you have a community where all the people are "pure of heart", have the right knowledge and wisdom, you could do without a government, you could have a democracy, a theocracy or a monarchy, it doesnt really matter what form of government you choose as long as the people being governed are "pure".

Let me use the example of the country Bhutan, they dont believe in Gross National Product but instead have Gross National Happiness :)

On Gross National Happiness:

While conventional development models stress economic growth as the ultimate objective, the concept of GNH is to be based on the premise that true development of human society takes place when material and spiritual development occur side by side to complement and reinforce each other. The four pillars of GNH are the promotion of equitable and sustainable socio-economic development, preservation and promotion of cultural values, conservation of the natural environment, and establishment of good governance.


What are your people's thoughts on Gross National Happiness? Could it be a solution?