What if the Palestinians get a home? [Archive] - David Icke's Official Forums

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adda

09-12-2010, 03:08 PM

merlincove

09-12-2010, 03:28 PM

adda

09-12-2010, 05:31 PM

merlincove

09-12-2010, 09:14 PM

What I thought I said was:
Israel plus displaced Palestinians equals no war.
Israel state plus Palestinian state equals a war between countries, which the rest of the world can get behind on either side.

The land belonged to the Palestinians before the American organised occupation of it by the Israeli's.

Why should the Palestinian peeps move?

The Israeli's and the Palestinians can love in peace together if the American Zionist Gvt butt out supplying arms to the Zionists in charge and the Zionist overlords are removed.

bukowski

10-12-2010, 12:47 PM

What if the Palestinians get a home?

They already have one.

the question should be "What if the Zionist invaders get a home that they have not stolen from the indigenous people?"

And they already have one since 1934, Birobidjan, autonomous 'jewish' state in southern Russia

http://www.birobidjan.co.uk/

http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/Birobidjan_Map.jpg

Birobidzhan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Birobidjan_mainsquare.jpg

loveisthelaw

10-12-2010, 12:56 PM

snoopsnuffleopagus

20-12-2010, 08:45 PM

From what I can gather there can't be a Middle Eastern war at the moment because it's just Israel doing the attacking. But now France are saying they will support the creation of a country for Palestinians, which is fine. Only, then there will be a country to fight back at Israel, with the Americans behind Israel fighting the rest of the world who'll be behind Palestine, probably.

For several years the Isralies have been behaving badly and getting a bad press with only America seemingly condoning their actions. So, if there is a war then France at least will probably be supporting the Palestinians. I'm thinking of that video from the 80's showing that chap saying that there will be World War Three, it seems to me that the pieces are coming together.

The pieces have been coming together for a long time my friend, since the creation of Israel.

Why though should the Palestinian people be moved out of their homes and the continued aggression against them from an American backed Zionist government be allowed to be swept under a carpet by relocating them?

Such a move would not mend the problem, it would excuse the aggression and oppresive nature that has been applied throughout the region, and 'simply' move the problem.

The Palestinians home is Palestine.

When Iraq invaded Kuwait, the forces of an applied coalition were implemented against the invading force, and yet America, by definition is ruled by an invading force that is there against the indigenous people's will, in contrast with the worlds (seemingly) outrage at Iraq's invasion, the invading force and the aggressor (the Zionist control structure that is oppressing both the Palestinian and Israeli people) in the middle east is allowed to act the way it does.

What I thought I said was:
Israel plus displaced Palestinians equals no war.
Israel state plus Palestinian state equals a war between countries, which the rest of the world can get behind on either side.

The land belonged to the Palestinians before the American organised occupation of it by the Israeli's.

Why should the Palestinian peeps move?

The Israeli's and the Palestinians can love in peace together if the American Zionist Gvt butt out supplying arms to the Zionists in charge and the Zionist overlords are removed.

They already have one.

the question should be "What if the Zionist invaders get a home that they have not stolen from the indigenous people?"

And they already have one since 1934, Birobidjan, autonomous 'jewish' state in southern Russia

http://www.birobidjan.co.uk/

http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/Birobidjan_Map.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birobidzhan

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Birobidjan_mainsquare.jpg

France will not fight against Israel.

The whole world is to be ruled by Israel according to their ancient god, not just Palestine.

One day you too, in America, France, Germany or the UK will have to submit to them also, or face their "wrath" - the smallest "country" in the world is the most dangerous, in my view.

Ahoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Muster on the Foredeck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take heed......................

Ignorance begets confusion, confusion begets lack of control, lack of control begets frustration, frustration begets hate; hate begets rage, ... :eek:

The Palestinian Arabs do have a Nation, it is called Jordan, unfortunatelt the Hashemites rule it and treat them like shit. Likewise all other Arab Nations refuse them citizenship.etc.........they prefer to use them as Pawns, likewise the Arab Palestinian use their peeps as Pawns, for more than 60 years rejecting offers of an Autonomous Palestinian Nations.

There is actually an Historical record, Ignorant Propaganda of a Judeophobic Nature only prolongs the suffering..

The Palestinian Arabs will have peace the day they realize the Price of Peace is less then the Price of the Status Quo.........

No shit...........................

Big Lies: Demolishing the Myths of the Propaganda War Against Israel

http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/Articles/BigLiesbyDavidMeirLevi.htm

1. The Refugee Question

The Arab version of the tragic fate of Arab refugees who fled from the Palestinian Mandate before and during the 1948 war and from Israel immediately after the war, has so thoroughly dominated the thinking of even well-educated historians, commentators, journalists and politicians, that is almost a given that the creation of the State of Israel caused the flight of almost a million hapless, helpless, and hopeless Arab refugees. Israel caused the problem and thus Israel must solve the problem.

This assertion, although viscerally engaging and all but canonized by the anti-Israel propaganda which makes it the core of its narratives of the Middle East conflict, is unequivocally and totally false.

Origins of the Problem

The State of Israel was created in a peaceful and legal process by the United Nations. It was not created out of Palestinian lands. It was created out of the Ottoman Empire, ruled for four hundred years by the Turks who lost it when they were defeated in World War I. There were no "Palestinian" lands at the time because there were no people claiming to be Palestinians. There were Arabs who lived in the region of Palestine who considered themselves Syrians. It was only after World War I that the present states of Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq were also created - and also created artificially out of the Turkish Empire by the British and French victors. Jordan was created on about 80 percent of the Palestine Mandate, which was originally designated by the League of Nations as part of the Jewish homeland. Since then, Jews have been prohibited from owning property there. Two-thirds of its citizens are Palestinian Arabs, but it is ruled by a Hashemite monarchy.

In 1947, the UN partition plan mandated the creation of two states on the remaining 20 percent of the Palestine Mandate: the State of Israel for the Jews, and another state for the Arabs. The Arabs rejected their state, and launched a war against Israel. This is the primal cause of the Arab refugee problem.

The Arab refugees were roughly 725,000 people who fled because of the war that the Arab states - not Palestinian Arabs - started. The Arab states - dictatorships all - did no want a non-Arab state in the Middle East. The rulers of eight Arab countries whose populations vastly outnumbered the Jewish settlers in the Turkish Empire, initiated the war with simultaneous invasions of the newly created state of Israel on three fronts. Nascent Israel begged for peace and offered friendship and cooperation to its neighbors. The Arab dictators rejected this offer and answered it with a war of annihilation against the Jews. The war failed. But the state of war has continued uninterruptedly because of the failure of the Arab states - Saudi Arabia and Iraq in particular - to sign a peace treaty with Israel. To this day, the Arab states and the Palestinians refer to the failure of their aggression and the survival of Israel as an-Nakba - the catastrophe.

Had there been no Arab aggression, no war, and no invasion by Arab armies whose intent was overtly genocidal, not only would there have been no Arab refugees, but there would have been a state of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza since 1948............The Jewish Refugees

There were other refugees from the Arab-Israeli conflict that everyone on the Arab side of the argument chooses conveniently to forget. Between 1949 and 1954, about 800,000 Jews were forced to flee from the Arab and Muslim lands where they had lived for hundreds and even thousands of years - from Iraq, Morocco, Tunisia, Jordan and Iran, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, and other Muslim countries. These Jews were peaceful citizens of their Arab countries and in no way a hostile population. Nonetheless, they were forced at gun-point to flee with nothing but the clothes on their backs. The only reason for their expulsion was revenge against the Jewish citizenry of Arab countries for the shame of the Arab defeat in their war of aggression.

Most of these Jewish refugees came to Israel, where they were integrated into normalcy by the tiny fledgling Jewish state. The Arab states (and later the PLO) refused to do this for the Arab refugees because they preferred to keep them an aggrieved constituency for their war against Israel.

Some observers have suggested that the dual refugee situation should be understood as a "population exchange" - Arab fled to Arab countries as Jews fled to the Jewish country, both as a result of the 1948 war, both under conditions which their side regards as forced evacuations. On the other hand, no one on the Arab side has suggested the obvious: if Jewish refugees were resettled on land vacated by fleeing Arabs, why not resettle Arab refugees on the lands of Jews who were forced to flee the Arab countries. One reason no one has suggested this is that no Arab state with the exception of Jordan will even allow Arab refugees to become citizens.

Taking into account the Jewish refugees' assets that were confiscated when they fled from Arab and Muslim lands, one can conclude that the Jews have already paid massive "reparations" to the Arabs whether warranted or not. The property and belongings of the Jewish refugees, confiscated by the Arab governments, has been conservatively estimated at about $2.5 billion in 1948 dollars. Invest that money at a modest 6.5% over 57 years and you have today a sum of $80 billion, which the Arab and Muslim governments of the lands from which the Jews were expelled could apply to the benefit of the Arab refugees. That sum is quite sufficient for reparations to Arab refugees. There is no way of accurately assessing the value of Arab property left in Israel's control; but there are no estimates as high as a 1948 value of $2,500,000,000. So, hypothetically, the Arab side has already gotten the better end of the deal.................................A Summary of The Salient Facts

The protracted Arab refugee crisis is an artificial crisis maintained for 57 years by Arab rulers in order to exploit their own people's suffering - to create a "poster child" for Palestinian victim-blood; a staging ground for anti-Israel propaganda; a training center for Arab terrorists; and a trump card for the anti0-Israel jihad (per Sakher Habash) when all else (war, terrorism, international diplomacy) fails.

"Haq el-Auda," the "law of return," for Palestinian Arabs to their own homes and farms and orchards that have been part of Israel for the past 57 years is a sham.

Sixty years ago there were nearly a million Jews in the Arab states of the Middle East: honest hard-working citizenry, contributing to the culture and economy of their countries of domicile,. Today, there are almost no Jews in the Arab countries of the Middle East, and racist apartheid laws prohibit even Jewish tourists from entering some Arab countries.

In Israel, on the other hand, the Arabs who did not flee numbered about 170,000 in 1949; and now number more than 1,400,000. They have 12 representatives in the Israeli Parliament, judges sitting on the Israeli courts and on the Israeli Supreme Court benches, and PhD's and tenured professors teaching in Israeli colleges and universities. They are a population that enjoys more freedom, education, and economic opportunity than do any comparable Arab populations anywhere in the Arab world.

The Arab rulers caused the Arab refugee problem in 1948 by their war of aggression against the infant state of Israel, a legal creation of the United Nations; the Arab rulers have since maintained the Arab refugee population and denied it any possibility of normal life in Arab countries in order to use the suffering they themselves have caused, as a weapon in their unending war against Israel.

During all these decades the refugee camps and their Arab exploiters have been funded by billions of dollars from the United Nations, the United States, the United Kingdom, the European Union and others.

....Let's be honest and assign Credit where Credit is due and Blame where Blame is due.

.Conclusion
The Arab refugee problem was created by the belligerent Arab
dictators who defied the UN, invaded Israel, encouraged the Arabs to
flee, and then purposely kept the Arab refugees in a state of wretched
poverty for propaganda purposes. Israel’s role in creating the refugee
problem was a relatively minor one restricted to legitimate military
contexts. It tried to reverse these after the war, but was rebuffed by
the Arab states.
The refugee problem was then intentionally perpetuated by the
Arab states through their refusal to abide by the UN resolutions and
the Geneva convention, their refusal to integrate any refugees into
under-populated Arab countries (except for Jordan), their refusal to
enter into peace negotiations with Israel, and their refusal to countenance
any steps toward resolution by Israel or others.
By perpetuating the refugee problem, the Arab leaders sought to
gain pseudo-moral leverage against Europe and Israel, to keep a “festering
human sore” in the forefront of their propaganda war against
Israel, and to use the issue as a political weapon against Israel.
As late as 1979, when Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel,
the Egyptians refused to deal with the refugee issue in the Gaza strip
and instead ceded all of the Gaza strip to Israel. A similar pattern
was established in Jordan’s 1994 peace treaty with Israel. Jordan had
integrated thousands of Palestinians into its economy and did not see any need or responsibility to deal with the disposition of those on the
West Bank.
The abuses, exaggerations, lies, and distortions perpetrated by
Arab governments, by the UN Refugee Agency, and the refugee
spokespersons made it impossible, even back in 1949, to identify a
bona fide refugee populace.
In 1967, the Arab states again launched an aggressive war against
Israel and as a result Israel became the governing authority in the
Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula, the Golan Heights, and in the West Bank.
Under Israeli rule from 1967 to 1992, The Palestinian population of
the West Bank experienced the highest standard of living of any Arab
country with the exception of the oil states. The same is true of Arab
Israelis. The Arab population of the West Bank and Gaza has tripled
since June 1967!
By contrast, since the transfer of authority in the West Bank to
the PLO in 1993, the condition of the Palestinian population under the
Palestinian Authority has declined precipitously. The standard of living
of the West Bank Palestinians has eroded, and GDP is one-tenth
of what it was under Israeli control. This is due to the mis-appropriation
of more than $5.2 billion by the rule of the Palestinian Authority
into the personal accounts of Arafat and his lieutenants for weapons
stock-piling, neglect of the infrastructure, and due to the continuous
terror war, against which Israel must exercise defensive controls and
deterrents..................
Justice for Jewish and Arab refugees could have been part of a
peace settlement if the Arab states had been willing. Today, solutions
are possible, but only if the Palestinian Authority will stop its new war
of terror. ...................While the same Arab states that claim to be outraged by the Jews' treatment of Palestinians treat their own Arab populations far worse than Arabs are treated in Israel, they are also silent about the disenfranchised Palestinian majority that lives in Jordan. In 1970, Jordan's King Hussein massacred thousands of PLO militants. But the PLO does not call for the overthrow of Hashemite rule in Jordan and does not hate the Hashemite monarchy. Only Jews are hated.

It is a hatred, moreover, that is increasingly lethal. Today, 70 percent of the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza approve the suicide bombing of women and children if the targets are Jews. There is no Arab "Peace Now" movement, not even a small one, whereas in Israel the movement demanding concessions to Arabs in the name of peace is a formidable political force. There is no Arab spokesman who will speak for the rights and sufferings of Jews, but there are hundreds of thousands of Jews in Israel - and all over the world - who will speak for "justice" for the Palestinians. How can the Jews expect fair treatment from a people that collectively does not even recognize their humanity?.........................................

Nobody can unring the Bells, Judeophobic BS will only prolong the suffering, become informed and nuanced, don't be a blunt instrument for the gneo-gnazis.

Lots of Data here: :) Get informed...............;)

Israel is Legit-Deal with it http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147216

Muslim Brotherhood

KNOWING AND UNDERSTANDING THE HISTORY OF THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD IS THE KEY TO UNDERSTANDING TODAY’S ISLAMIC WAR AGAINST THE WEST
..

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.c..._en.html#part2

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/mbhood_en.html

..Muslim Brotherhood unites with Hitler’s Third Reich
1933-2002

1933 Hitler rises to power
After humiliation of WWI, Germany votes overwhelmingly in favor of Hitler’s Fascist regime.

Hitler and Muslim Brotherhood Find Common Ground
Hitler’s vision of ethnic cleansing of non-Aryans becomes appealing to the Wahhabis of the Muslim Brotherhood [vii] . The West and the Jews is the common enemy. Muslim Brotherhood acquires Hitler’s methods of genocide to rid the Arab world of its non-Muslims.

1933

Nazi Parties Appear

Throughout Arab World [viii]

Young Egypt. Led by Muslim Brotherhood member Abdul Gamal Nasser (future Egyptian President). Young Egypt’s political slogan “One Folk, One Party, One Leader” is a direct translation from German of Nazi slogan.

Social Nationalist Party in Syria [ix] . Led by Anton Saada (known as the Syrian Fuhrer)

Syrian Social Nationalist Party Flag

1939-1945

Husseini calls Nazi Muslim Troops “Cream of Islam”
Amin Al-Husseini spends WWII in Germany at Hitler’s side. He establishes Muslim Nazi troops and becomes heavily involved in the genocide of Jews, Gypsies and Serbs. (See Husseini section).

Husseini calls Nazi Muslim troops “the Cream of Islam”.

1944

Amin al Husseini

Co-Founder and President of

Arab League
Amin Al-Husseini is one of the primary founders and the inspiration of Arab League. Goal is to reinforce Wahhabi vision of Pan-Islamic unity. Founding countries are: Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Yemen.

Husseini, still in Germany, is appointed to President in Absentia of Fourth Higher Committee of Arab League.

1945

Amin Al-Husseini

Leader of Muslim Brotherhood

Mid-1940. Amin Al-Husseini is appointed leader of Muslim Brotherhood in Jerusalem. He becomes number one active importer of Nazi methodology to the Middle East. Husseini flees to Egypt. He is wanted by Yugoslavia for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity perpetrated during WWII.

1949-1952

ODESSA

Network

Nazis Join Muslim Brotherhood
ODESSA network. Egypt, home of Muslim Brotherhood, and Syria incorporate thousands of Nazi experts into Egyptian and Syrian army, government and propaganda service. Vatican heavily involved in providing travel visas for Nazi officers.

Amin Al-Husseini providing safe haven to ex-Nazis in Arab lands. He is the main connection with Francois Genoud, Swiss banker of Third Reich, who finances the ODESSA network with money stolen from murdered European Jews.

Francois Genoud

Hitler’s Swiss Banker

Finds A New Employer
After World War II, Amin Al-Husseini was visited multiple times in Beirut by Hitler’s Swiss banker, Francois Genoud.

Genoud finances the ODESSA network. He sponsors Arab Nationalism with Nazi money. In Cairo and Tangiers, Genoud sets up import-export company called Arabo-Afrika, which is a cover to disseminate anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli propaganda.

Genoud sets up Swiss bank accounts for North African liberation armies of Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria. In partnership with Syria, he sets up Arab Commercial Bank in Geneva. In 1962, he becomes Director of Arab People’s Bank in Algeria. [x]

Arab League and Muslim Brotherhood :
Voice of Amin Al-Husseini into the 20th and 21st Century
1945-2002
Legacy of Death and Hate
Over Ten Million Human Beings Murdered in half a century

Palestinian Fascism And Its Nazi Roots…….
Posted on 05/08/2006 by KGS
“The Palestinian Arabs show on all levels a great sympathy for the new Germany and its Fuhrer, a sympathy whose value is particularly high as it is based on a purely ideological foundation,” a Nazi official in Palestine wrote in a letter to Berlin in 1937. He added: “Most important for the sympathies which Arabs now feel towards Germany is their admiration for our Fuhrer, especially during the unrests, I often had an opportunity to see how far these sympathies extend. When faced with a dangerous behaviour of an Arab mass, when one said that one was German, this was already generally a free pass.” [The above picture is of the Mufti of Jerusalem greeting his troops, the SS Muslim Hanzar Division]

The exent of Arab/Nazi cooperation during the 30′s and 40′s has been well documented, with noted historians such as Bernard Lewis mentioning that (about the Arabs): “a pro-Nazi past was a source of pride, not shame”(“Semites and Anti-Semites”, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, London 1986, p.160.). Anti-Semitism took an important role in keeping the fascist orthodoxy vibrant with “purpose and meaning”, and would not have found a home if not for an already fertile ground waiting to receive it.

The British National Archives have historical documents showing a close working relationship between SS agents of the Third Reich and Palestinian Arab leaders within Mandatory Palestine. Read more here. All of this of course, makes Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s recent remarks of: “Why did you come to give a piece of Islamic land and the territory of the Palestinian people to them?” look increasingly stupid as it is deceptive. The fact that the Palestinian Arab leader, Hajj Amin Al-Husseini “the Mufti of Jerusalem” was a staunch supporter of the Nazis, leader of the SS Hanzar division and a wanted war criminal, is enough to reject any revisionist claim of’ Arab innocence’ in the Third Reich’s Final Solution for the Jews. KGS

Islamic Antisemitism And Its Nazi Roots
By Matthias Küntzel

http://www.matthiaskuentzel.de/contents/islamic-antisemitism-and-its-nazi-roots

In order to understand what the similarities between Islamist and Nazi imaginations are based on, we have to look at the history of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood which was founded in 1928 and which established Islamism as a mass movement.

The continuing significance of the Muslim Brotherhood for Islamism is comparable to the significance of the Bolshevik party for Communism in the 20th century: The Muslim Brotherhood is the organizational as well as the ideological core which successfully inspired all subsequent Islamist groups and tendencies. No other organization has influenced the ideology of the al Qaida cadres more strongly than the Brotherhood and its leading members Hassan al-Banna, Sayyid Qutb and Abdullah Azzam have. .....

Apartheid? Israel is a democracy in which Arabs vote http://www.mideastweb.org/israel_apartheid.htm

Israel and Apartheid South Africa - is it a valid comparison?
http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000416.htm

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~levinson/documents/Levinson_Sherman_Heschel_RBL_Review.pdf

Middle East News and Reference
http://www.mideastweb.org/

Zionism
Zionism & Israel Information Center

http://www.zionism-israel.com/

Summary: The Jews did not steal Jackshit from the so called Palestinians, Israel is the Ancestral Land of the Jews for 3,500 years.

Who Owns Jerusalem?
http://ldolphin.org/psalm2.html

Even when the Brits left, they ceded 85% of the Land to the Arabs and 15% to the Jooz.

Get informed, the Jews aren't leaving and Israel isn't going away.

If you want to support Terrorist Organisations that doesn't help your Sojourn.....get informed and think about it.

Aloha!!!!!!!!!! :)

mahabaratara

20-12-2010, 11:09 PM

Snoop.

You do too much talking.

Aloha Nui Loa.

;)

bukowski

21-12-2010, 12:39 AM

too much already

Well I'm not wasting 5 seconds looking at that garbage heap of a post

Like I said ..... birobidjan

http://www.birobidjan.co.uk/

snoopsnuffleopagus

21-12-2010, 03:44 PM

Well I'm not wasting 5 seconds looking at that garbage heap of a post

Ignorance begets confusion, confusion begets lack of control, lack of control begets frustration, frustration begets hate; hate begets rage, ............... :rolleyes:

sure..why let Truth, History, Facts inform your myopic world view.........:rolleyes:

remember buko, when you get hit in the face with a big stinking pile of shit, it is the shit that you, yourself, threw at the fan. Maybe then you'll wake up, or perhaps you'll just fashion it into a trendy hat. lol

Against all odds, outnumbered massively in resources and manpower, Israel and the Jews not only survived, they thrived and elevated life for all in their community.

snicker..............................

loveisthelaw

21-12-2010, 03:54 PM

Israel not only survived, they thrived and elevated life for all in their community.

..with the help of the all the powers the west could muster, and at the cost of another people; a job well done. They must be so proud of themselves for doing, mmmmm, nothing.

snoopsnuffleopagus

21-12-2010, 04:00 PM

..with the help of the all the powers the west could muster, and at the cost of another people; a job well done. They must be so proud of themselves for doing, mmmmm, nothing.

Bullshit, read the History, they were on their own in 1947.............

http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm

Listen up buck-a-roos, i got no time for gneo gnazi radical islamists and supporters of Hamas, Fatah and Hizbollah and the Moslem Brotherhood.

The Palestinian Arabs have been their own worst enemy, that is Truth.

3) After November 29, 1947, warfare between the Israeli Haganah and para-military Arab volunteers numbering in the tens of thousands began in earnest. The Arab press and public speeches made it clear that this was to be a war of annihilation like those of the great Mongol hordes killing all in their path. The Jews would be either dead or out. Israel was fighting not a war of independence, but a war of survival. In order to defend some areas where Jews were completely surrounded by Arabs (like the Jews of Jaffa, Jewish villages or kibbutzim in parts of Galilee and the central hill country, and in Jerusalem)(, the Haganah adopted scare-tactics that were intended to strike terror into the Arab population of those areas, so that they would retreat to safer ground. Then, it would be possible for the Haganah to defend those Jews who would otherwise be inaccessible and thus vulnerable to genocidal Arab intentions. Many Arabs in parts of Western Galilee, Jaffa, and parts of Western Jerusalem, fled because of tactics such as rumors that a huge Jewish army from the West was about to land on the coast, hand-grenades thrown on front porches of homes, jeeps driving by and firing machine guns into the walls or fences of houses, rumors circulated by Arabic-speaking Jews that the Haganah was far bigger than it really was and was on the verge of surfacing with a massive Jewish army, etc. Here it is important to note that Jews were responsible in this part of the Arab flight. But it was not because they wanted to ethnically cleanse the country, or to wipe out the Arabs. it was because they knew that outnumbered Jews, undefended in Arab enclaves would be slaughtered (as in fact was the case of Jews in the Gush Etzion villages and in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City in Jerusalem, and as had happened in Hebron in 1929). It was the exigency of their fighting a war of survival against a bigger and better armed enemy that drove them to the tactics described above. It is also important not to forget these facts: Had the Arab leadership accepted the UN partition plan, there would have been a state of Palestine since November 29, 1947, for the Arabs, alongside of Israel. Had the Arab armies not invaded, there would have been no refugee problem. Keeping in mind these two facts, it is clear that the total onus of culpability for the start of the refugee problem rests squarely and solely upon the Arab states that invaded, in clear disregard for the UN resolution 181 and international law.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4) Arab leadership from among the para-military forces and the forces and the forces of Syria were vociferous in their announcements that they wanted Arabs to leave so that the armies would have a clear field in which to perpetrate their genocide of the Jews. When the war was over and the Jews were driven out or killed, the Arab residents could come back and have both their own lands and those of the Jews.

We cannot know how many Arabs fled because of these announcements; but since a number of Arab spokespersons after the war admitted to having done this, and wrung their hands publicly in painful repentance of having created the refugee problem, it is clear that the Arab leadership's own message to many Arabs in the area was a major factor in the Arab flight. ["The first group of our fifth column consist of those who abandon their homes...At the first sign of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle" --Ash-Sha'ab, Jaffa, January 30, 1948]

It is also important to point out at this time that there were a number of cases where Jewish leaders got out in public and pleaded with Arabs not to leave. The mayor of Haifa is the best example of this. At the risk of his own life, he drove through the Arab section of Haifa with a loudspeaker on his jeep, and in Arabic called out to the residents of his city to disregard the Arab propaganda.

Nonetheless, tens of thousands fled. The incredulous British officers who witnessed this, documented it in a variety of sources. Those Arabs who stayed were unharmed and became citizens of Israel. ["(The fleeing villagers)...are bringing down disgrace on us all... by abandoning their villages" --As-Sarih, Jaffa, March 30, 1948]

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND
Early Zionism
Zionist pioneers from the middle of the 19th century onward
joined the local Jewish communities in rebuilding a Jewish homeland
in what was then the Turkish Empire by purchasing land from the
Turkish Crown and from Arab landowners (effendi). There was no
invasion, no conquest, and no theft of Arab land – and certainly not
of a land of Palestine, since the Arabs living in the region had been
Turkish subjects for 400 years. Unarmed and possessing no military,
the Jews bought so much land from Arabs that in 1892, a group of
effendi sent a letter to the Turkish Sultan, requesting that he make it
illegal for his subjects to sell land to the Jews. Their successors did
the same thing, via a telegram, in 1915. Evidently, the very presence
of Jews owning land in the Middle East – however legally acquired
– was offensive to some.
It is indisputable that there was no theft, because no one complained
of any. No Arabs were driven from their homes. In fact, as a
demographic study published by Columbia University demonstrates5,
the Arab population of the area grew tremendously during this period
in part because of the economic development that the Jews helped
to generate.

Validation of this history, which is quite at variance with the
standard Arab propaganda, comes from a surprising source. Sheikh
Yousuf al-Qaradhawi, international Arab terrorist and lieutenant to
Osama bin Laden, in a televised speech in May, 2005,6 chided his followers
with the following words: “Unfortunately, we [Arabs] do not
excel in either military or civil industries. We import everything from
needles to missiles…How come the Zionist gang has managed to be
superior to us, despite being so few? It has become superior through
knowledge, through technology, and through strength. It has become
superior to us through work. We had the desert before our eyes but we
didn’t do anything with it. When they took over, they turned it into a
green oasis. How can a nation that does not work progress? How can
it grow?” 7 (emphasis added)
It was precisely this success of the Zionist endeavor that aroused
the fear and ire of Arab leaders. Zionist progress, technology, economy,
and the Jews’ willingness to share this technology with their Arab
neighbors radically threatened the medieval stranglehold of the effendi
over the fellahin (peasantry).

To add to the Arabs’ embarrassment, Israel offered them in 1949
a formal peace treaty in exchange for which Israel would return much
of the land conquered in the war and allow the repatriation of some
substantive portion of the Arab refugees created by the war (Rhodes
Armistice talks, February – July, 1949). Had the Arab nations been
willing to accept the UN partition plan, or had they been willing to
accept the Israeli peace offer, not only would a State of Palestine have
existed since 1949, but there would never have been an Arab refugee
problem.
However, the Arab response was: no peace. The refugees would
return to their homes only when they could fly the flag of Palestine
over the corpses of the Jews. Better Palestinians should rot in squalid
refugee camps than that the Arabs should acknowledge a non-Moslem
state in their midst.

You kids are living in a fantasyland, you believe in what never was or will be, you're past due for a serious reality check.

Aloha!!!!!!!!!! :)

loveisthelaw

21-12-2010, 05:04 PM

lol, sorry can-ga-roo, you don't know about what you speaketh.

snoopsnuffleopagus

21-12-2010, 07:05 PM

lol, sorry can-ga-roo, you don't know about what you speaketh.

Not good enough, this is a life and death matter........y'all haven't supported your Position....feel free to clue me up.

loveisthelaw

21-12-2010, 08:26 PM

Not good enough, this is a life and death matter........y'all haven't supported your Position....feel free to clue me up.

Life or death huh, why would that be?

snoopsnuffleopagus

21-12-2010, 08:37 PM

Life or death huh, why would that be?

Ignorance begets confusion, confusion begets lack of control, lack of control begets frustration, frustration begets hate; hate begets rage, .........

dollanaqua

21-12-2010, 08:45 PM

Snoop.

You do too much talking.

Aloha Nui Loa.

;) +1

he doesn't appear to be aware of the simple fact that the longer his posts are the less likely it is that anyone is going to bother reading even one sentence of his posts. :)

snoopsnuffleopagus

21-12-2010, 08:50 PM

Snoop.

You do too much talking.

Aloha Nui Loa.

;)

up yours, I do no more writing, or less writing then is neccessary.

Have a nice day :)

snoopsnuffleopagus

21-12-2010, 08:51 PM

+1

he doesn't appear to be aware of the simple fact that the longer his posts are the less likely it is that anyone is going to bother reading even one sentence of his posts. :)

sure, let ignorance reign supreme, it's obvious your technique of being informed by means of Osmosis hasn't worked out very well.

Your as trendy and ignorant as they come.

Have a nice day. :)

loveisthelaw

21-12-2010, 09:50 PM

Ignorance begets confusion, confusion begets lack of control, lack of control begets frustration, frustration begets hate; hate begets rage, .........

Nice collection of begets :) but not convinced.

mahabaratara

22-12-2010, 09:07 PM

up yours, I do no more writing, or less writing then is neccessary.

Have a nice day :)

LOL!

I stated *talking*!

A lesser Tetragrammaton you are not.

Moses would be displeased at your treatment of a brother.

Afterall if you cant do a simple task as that where does that leave your teaching?

snoopsnuffleopagus

27-12-2010, 09:15 PM

LOL!

I stated *talking*!

A lesser Tetragrammaton you are not.

Moses would be displeased at your treatment of a brother.

Afterall if you cant do a simple task as that where does that leave your teaching?

Ahoy!!!!!!!!!!

1: I am not a Teacher/Rabbi

2: How can you be so sure of what Moses would think, you know nothing of him. He killed an egyptian for mistreating a Jew, I have not. :)

Which is the 'Wiser Path'.

To remain silent whilst ignorant, deceitful haters besmirch their fellow humans and attempt to create another Holocaust, focusing on Jews only, Demonizing them, Deligitimizing them and employing Double/Triple Standards when comparing them to others.

Or would it be to become informed so that one recognizes the calumnies and innuendo for the lies and deceit that they are and then to call the Ignorant, hateful bigot for the troublemaking liar that they are.

You have chosen the former, unengaged; uninformed, acquiescent to the Beast, not challenging the lies. Comfortably Numb.

I have chosen to engage the Beast, to Beard the Beast in it's own Den, the DIF, where the Beast has the majority view, the majority support.

I say: Fuck em'!!

You're hippy trippy namby pamby milieu doesn't help, it hindwers.

Take an informed Stand/Position or go sit in the Cheap Seats and watch the Drama unfold.

Kind Regards :)

ps: your pal, bunnyd. is a mess due to lapping up low grade BS and believing it, and you can't help her because you are ignorant of what the Truth is.

So very, very sad................

ellis_deatrip

27-12-2010, 09:55 PM

TODAY’S ISLAMIC WAR AGAINST THE WEST
What war ?

snoopsnuffleopagus

28-12-2010, 07:16 PM

What war ?

Pay Attention=No Monetary Cost $000.00

Being informed=Priceless

http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/A4243/42431/300_42431.jpg

http://www.satansrapture.com/archie.jpg

http://www.harrold.org/rfhextra/images/Muslim5lives600x450.bmp

http://actforamerica.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/islam-peace.jpg

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/Muslimrape.gif

Where are all the Bleeding Hearts concerning Muslim on Muslim violence: Iraq, Afganistan, Sudan, Iran; Saudi Arabia............Israel..........Hamas slaughters Palestinian Arabs

http://www.drybonesproject.com/blog/D06521_2.gif

http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/hitler_mufti.jpg

http://images46.fotki.com/v1517/photos/5/1222605/8634910/stophamas123-vi.jpg

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.nationalpost.com/news/2056316.bin?size=404x272

Toodle-oo :)

dollanaqua

28-12-2010, 07:19 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDM2wFeRPHg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT3946oreMw&feature=related

Israel Was Created By Terrorism

dollanaqua

28-12-2010, 07:24 PM

Israel Refuses to Return Stolen Christian Homes 60yrs Later - YouTube

Israel Refuses to Return Stolen Christian Homes 60yrs Later

dollanaqua

28-12-2010, 07:27 PM

Burning Conscience: Israeli Soldiers Speak Out - YouTube

Burning Conscience: Israeli Soldiers Speak Out

snoopsnuffleopagus

28-12-2010, 08:44 PM

Israel Was Created By Terrorism

Burning Conscience: Israeli Soldiers Speak Out

Israeli abuse - "We killed Jesus & We're Proud."

Lying Proaganda: The actual History is irrefutable,

http://markhumphrys.com/gaza.html#civil.war

Taliban hell - Sharia law in Gaza
Welcome to Palestine, Jan. 29, 2007 - Caroline Glick on the hellhole of Gaza without Israel. What did we expect? The Palestinians to set up a parliamentary democracy?
"For the past 13 years, since the Palestinian Authority was established in 1994, the contours of the State of Palestine have taken form in front of our eyes. ... Palestine exists already. ... Palestine is a terror state and an economic basket case fully funded by the international community. ... official Western aid to the Palestinians .. increased by 10 percent in 2006 over 2005, and stood at $1.2 billion. The Palestinians, who receive more aid per capita than any people on earth, are needy not because they lack funds. They are poor because they prefer poverty, violence and war to prosperity, peace and moderation. So it is that 57 percent of Palestinians support terror attacks against Israel. The multitude of protesters worldwide who demand an end to the so-called "occupation" and the establishment of Palestine should be made aware of the fact that Palestine already exists. ... This is Palestine. Enter at your own risk."

Taliban hell:
After Israeli pullout, Islamists stamp their boot on Gaza. They bomb Internet cafes, music shops, and even barber shops. Welcome to Taliban hell. You asked for it.
Palestinian Islamist gunmen attack primary school sports day in Gaza with grenades and gunfire, May 2007. And here. Several terrified children were shot. A guard was shot dead. Why? Because boys and girls were "intermingled".
Fatah are killing men with beards because they associate it with Hamas support.
Hamas will probably now start killing men without beards.
Hamas bans girls on motor scooters and women dancing
Round-up of sharia laws in Gaza (and more)
In 2009 alone, there were 10 honour killings in Gaza and the West Bank (but mostly in Gaza).
Gaza water park shut down by Hamas, then burned down, Sept 2010. Hamas had issued warnings to it because of "events where men and women sit together".

Israeli Soldiers Speak Out
Hear the REAL Voices of Israeli Soldiers , a true responce to breaking the silence.

http://www.soldiersspeakout.com/

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) has over 700,000 citizen soldiers and reservists who are expected to live up to the IDFs ethical standards. In any army, some soldiers violate the rules of combat. In the IDF, all alleged violations are investigated, and offenders are punished.

Yet today, there is an attempt to defame the IDF through allegations that there were instances of misconduct during Israel's Gaza operation. The accusations are based on unverified hearsay, and are proving to be false.

Many IDF soldiers feel a deep sense of injustice at how some are misrepresenting them and the IDF. We want to tell you, the public, about our personal experiences. Listen to our stories on this site.

British Colonel Kemp: Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaida Tactically Exploit International Laws of Warfare

http://www.iris.org.il/blog/archives/3098-British-Colonel-Kemp-Hezbollah,-Hamas,-Al-Qaida-Tactically-Exploit-International-Laws-of-Warfare.html

And of course the British and American media have done everything they can to act as the jihadis’ fifth column against the west – nowhere more so than in Israel, on which Col. Kemp had this to say:

Here is the truth from a British Colonel:

What is the other challenge faced by the IDF that we British do not have to face to the same extent? It is the automatic, Pavlovian presumption by many in the international media, and international human rights groups, that the IDF are in the wrong, that they are abusing human rights.

So what did the IDF do in Gaza to meet their obligation to operate within the laws of war? When possible the IDF gave at least four hours’ notice to civilians to leave areas targeted for attack. Attack helicopter pilots, tasked with destroying Hamas mobile weapons platforms, had total discretion to abort a strike if there was too great a risk of civilian casualties in the area. Many missions that could have taken out Hamas military capability were cancelled because of this.

During the conflict, the IDF allowed huge amounts of humanitarian aid into Gaza. This sort of task is regarded by military tacticians as risky and dangerous at the best of times. To mount such operations, to deliver aid virtually into your enemy’s hands, is to the military tactician, normally quite unthinkable. But the IDF took on those risks.

In the latter stages of Cast Lead the IDF unilaterally announced a daily three-hour cease fire. The IDF dropped over 900,000 leaflets warning the population of impending attacks to allow them to leave designated areas. A complete air squadron was dedicated to this task alone. Leaflets also urged the people to phone in information to pinpoint Hamas fighters vital intelligence that could save innocent lives.

The IDF phoned over 30,000 Palestinian households in Gaza, urging them in Arabic to leave homes where Hamas might have stashed weapons or be preparing to fight. Similar messages were passed in Arabic on Israeli radio broadcasts warning the civilian population of forthcoming operations. Despite Israel’s extraordinary measures, of course innocent civilians were killed and wounded. That was due to the frictions of war that I have spoken about, and even more was an inevitable consequence of Hamas’ way of fighting.

By taking these actions and many other significant measures during Operation Cast Lead the IDF did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other Army in the history of warfare. But the IDF still did not win the war of opinions – especially in Europe.

Israel’s military therefore observes a high standard of ethical behaviour and concern for innocent life which is simply without parallel or precedent anywhere else in the world. And yet it is Israel which the west singles out for demonisation and delegitimisation for ‘war crimes’ -- so much so that the very same Israeli military eulogised by Col Kemp cannot set foot in Britain without a ‘human rights’ lawyer trying to arrest them for ‘crimes against humanity’ as soon as they step off the plane.

Go figure.

Col. Kemp, Israel and double standards « Ray Cook
http://www.raymondcook.net/blog/index.php/2010/06/03/col-kemp-israel-and-double-standards/

BIG LIES:
Demolishing The Myths of the Propaganda War Against Israel

http://www.divineviewpoint.com/sane/BigLies_Israel/biglies.pdf

Ahoy!!! dolonka, what illigitimate country do you reside in? :confused:

I'll bet beaucoup bucks Israel is more legit then your Nation.

THE IMPORTA NCE OF THIS TEXT
b y D a v i d H o r o w i t zThe War in the Middle East is nearly sixty years old. Most
people alive today are unfamiliar with its history and origins and lack
knowledge of its facts. This state of ignorance provides a fertile ground
for the unscrupulous to create myths that will justify their destructive
agendas. The political propaganda machine has created many such
myths to fuel their war against the Jewish state.
Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that elects its leaders
in free elections and guarantees rights to its citizens, and honors
those rights. Yet Israel is the target of those who claim to be fighting
for “human rights.” There are about a million and a half Arabs living
as citizens in Israel who elect representatives to Israel’s parliament
and who have more rights than the Arab citizens of any Arab state.
Yet Israel is the target of those who claim to be fighting for “social
justice.” Israel’s very creation is referred to by its Arab enemies as "the
Nakba", or the “catastrophe,” the clear implication of which is that
Israel should not exist. Yet Israel is the target of those who claim to
support self-determination and oppose genocide. Israel was the victim
– at its very birth -- of an unprovoked aggression by five Arab monarchies
and dictatorships. It has been the target of an Arab war that
has continued uninterruptedly for nearly sixty years because the Arab
states have refused to make peace. Yet Israel is the target of those who
say they want “peace.” Israel is the victim of terrorist attacks – suicide
bombings – which along with the Jews they mark for extinction,
kill Palestinian women and children as well. Yet Israel is the target of
those who claim to speak for humanity and a future that is “free.”
How is this possible? How can evil be dressed in the garments of
justice? How can a genocidal war to destroy a democratic people be
justified as a struggle for “national liberation?”
They can through the creation of political myths that rationalize
aggression and justify war against civilian populations.
In George Orwell’s futuristic novel, 1984, the Ministry of Truth
for the totalitarian state proclaims: Knowledge Is Ignorance; Freedom
Is Slavery. The nature of political doublespeak never changes its agenda is always the same: Obliteration of historical memory in
the service of power. “The struggle of man against power,” wrote
the Czech writer, Milan Kundera, “is the struggle of memory against
forgetting.” Only a restored memory can demolish totalitarian myths
and make men free.
David Meir-Levi has written a text that restores the memory of
the facts that lie at the heart of the conflict in the Middle East. These
facts are crucial not only to the restoration of the history that politics
has obscured, but to the survival of a people who live in the shadow
of their own destruction. Everyone interested in justice will want to
read this little book................1. THE R EFUGEE QUESTION
The Arab version of the tragic fate of Arab refugees who fled
from the Palestine Mandate before and during the 1948 war and from
Israel immediately after the war, has so thoroughly dominated the
thinking of even well-educated historians, commentators, journalists
and politicians, that it is almost a given that the creation of the State
of Israel caused the flight of almost a million hapless, helpless and
hopeless Arab refugees. Israel caused the problem and thus Israel must
solve the problem.
This assertion, although viscerally engaging and all but canonized
by the anti-Israel propaganda which makes it the core of its narratives
of the Middle East conflict, is unequivocally and totally false.
Origins of the Problem
The State of Israel was created in a peaceful and legal process by
the United Nations. It was not created out of Palestinian lands. It was
created out of the Ottoman Empire, ruled for four hundred years by
the Turks who lost it when they were defeated in World War I. There
were no “Palestinian” lands at the time because there were no people
claiming to be Palestinians. There were Arabs who lived in the region
of Palestine who considered themselves Syrians. It was only after
World War I that the present states of Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq
were also created – and also created artificially out of the Turkish
Empire by the British and French victors. Jordan was created on about
80 percent of the Palestine Mandate, which was originally designated
by the League of Nations as part of the Jewish homeland. Since then,
Jews have been prohibited from owning property there. Two-thirds
of its citizens are Palestinian Arabs, but it is ruled by a Hashemite
monarchy.
In 1947, the UN partition plan mandated the creation of two states
on the remaining 20 percent of the Palestine Mandate: the State of
Israel for the Jews, and another state for the Arabs. The Arabs rejected
their state, and launched a war against Israel. This is the primal cause
of the Arab refugee problem.......

The Arab refugees were roughly 725,000 people who fled because
of the war that the Arab states – not the Palestinian Arabs -- started.
The Arab states - dictatorships all - did not want a non-Arab state in
the Middle East. The rulers of eight Arab countries whose populations
vastly outnumbered the Jewish settlers in the Turkish Empire, initiated
the war with simultaneous invasions of the newly created state of Israel
on three fronts. Nascent Israel begged for peace and offered friendship
and cooperation to its neighbors. The Arab dictators rejected this offer
and answered it with a war of annihilation against the Jews. The war
failed. But the state of war has continued uninterruptedly because of
the failure of the Arab states –Saudi Arabia and Iraq in particular – to
sign a peace treaty with Israel. To this day, the Arab states and the
Palestinians refer to the failure of their aggression and the survival of
Israel as an-Nakba – the catastrophe.
Had there been no Arab aggression, no war, and no invasion by
Arab armies whose intent was overtly genocidal, not only would there
have been no Arab refugees, but there would have been a state of
Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza since 1948.
In the war, Israel acquired additional land. In the absence of
a peace treaty between belligerents, the law of nations allows the
annexation of an aggressor’s land after a conflict – although the land
in question belonged to the Turks and then the World War I victors.
Israel actually offered to return land it had acquired while defending
itself against the Arab aggression in exchange for a formal peace.
It made this offer during the Rhodes Armistice talks and Lausanne
conference in 1949. The Arab rulers refused the land because they
wanted to maintain a state of war in order to destroy the Jewish state.
Had Israel’s offer been accepted, there could have been prompt and
just resolution to all the problems that have afflicted the region since.
The only problem that wouldn’t have been resolved to the satisfaction
of the Arabs was their desire to obliterate the state of Israel.
After their victory, Israel passed a law that allowed Arab refugees
to re-settle in Israel provided they would sign a form in which they
renounced violence, swore allegiance to the state of Israel, and became
peaceful productive citizens. During the decades of this law’s tenure,
more than 150,000 Arab refugees have taken advantage of it to resume productive lives in Israel. Jews do not have a similar option to become
citizens of Arab states from which they are banned.
It should be completely obvious to any reasonable and fair-minded
observer of this history, therefore, that it was not Israel that caused
the Arab refugee problem, nor Israel that obstructed its solution.
On the contrary, the Arab refugee problem was the direct result
of the aggression by the Arab states, and their refusal after failing to
obliterate Israel to sign a formal peace, or to take care of the Arab
refugees who remained outside Israel’s borders.
The Jewish Refugees
There were other refugees from the Arab-Israeli conflict that
everyone on the Arab side of the argument chooses conveniently to
forget. Between 1949 and 1954, about 800,000 Jews were forced to
flee from the Arab and Muslim lands where they had lived for hundreds
and even thousands of years – from Iraq, Morocco, Tunisia,
Jordan and Iran, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, and other Muslim countries.
These Jews were peaceful citizens of their Arab countries and in no
way a hostile population. Nonetheless, they were forced at gun-point
to flee with nothing but the clothes on their backs. The only reason
for their expulsion was revenge against the Jewish citizenry of Arab
countries for the shame of the Arab defeat in their war of aggression.
Most of these Jewish refugees came to Israel, where they were
integrated into normalcy by the tiny fledgling Jewish state. The Arab
states (and later the PLO) refused to do this for the Arab refugees
because they preferred to keep them an aggrieved constituency for
their war against Israel..............

Middle East News and Reference

http://www.mideastweb.org/

Zionism
Zionism & Israel Information Center

http://www.zionism-israel.com/

http://zionism-israel.com/zionism_history.htm
Pre-Zionism
Zionism was a natural product of the culture of the Jewish people in exile. It did not spring full blown from a void with the creation of the Zionist movement in 1897. The central idea of Zionism, disputed by anti-Zionists, is that the Jews are a people, a nation tied to a specific land, and not just just a religion. It is a misconception to think that this idea was born in the 19th century. Since the Romans exiled the Jews from the land that the Jews called Judea and the Romans called Palestine, the Jews had referred to the lands outside the land of Judea or Israel as Gola meaning "exile" rather than "Diaspora (meaning dispersion) and to their condition as "Galut." Both were always terms with negative and bitter connotations. Implicitly then, there was a land from which Jews were exiled and to which they understood that they belonged.

Jews had lived in "Eretz Yisrael (the land of Israel, called "Palestine" by the Romans and Greeks) since about 1200 B.C.E. The land of Israel was at a crossroads of the Middle East and the Mediterranean and was therefore conquered many times: by Egyptians, Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Seleucid Greeks and Romans, as well as invading Philistines. Of these, only the Jews made the land into their national home. Jewish national culture, fused with religion, centered around the geography, seasons and history of the land and of the Jews in the land. The Jews created the Old Testament Bible- The Tanach, which described their history and the history of the land, and their connection to it. The Bible formed the backbone of Jewish culture and later was to form the backbone of Western Christian culture, so that the entire world recognized the connection between the Jews and their land. When the Romans conquered Palestine, and Jews were exiled to the Diaspora, the connection to the land was preserved in the Bible, and in prayers that daily called for the rebuilding of Jerusalem, and it was expressed in the writings of medieval poets......................The British Mandate - The first achievement of Political Zionism
The Zionist movement did not give up efforts to find a political solution. The political Zionism and practical settlement approaches were merged into "Synthetic Zionism" advocated by Chaim Weizmann. Weizmann and others understood that a British victory would spell the end of the Ottoman empire, and present a unique opportunity to implement a Jewish national home in Palestine.

The efforts ultimately bore fruit in the Balfour Declaration, a promise by Britain to support a Jewish national home in Palestine, and in the League of Nations Mandate, which gave international sanction to the Jewish national home. Weizmann became head of the Zionist organization and later was the first President of Israel.............Zionism and the Arabs
When Jews began thinking about return to Israel in the early 19th century, there were about 200,000 Arabs living in all of the land, mostly concentrated in the countryside of the West Bank and Galilee, and mostly lacking in national sentiment. Palestine was, in Western eyes, a country without a nation, as Lord Shaftesbury wrote. Early proto-Zionists did not trouble themselves at all about the existing inhabitants. Many were heavy influenced by utopianism. In the best 19th century tradition, they were creating a Jewish utopia, where an ancient people would be revived. They envisioned a land without strife, where all national and economic problems would be solved by good will, enlightened and progressive policies and technological know-how. Herzl's Altneuland was in in fact just such a utopia. Jewish population grew, but Arab population grew more rapidly. By 1914, there were over 500,000 Arabs in Palestine.

At the same time, Zionist pronouncements and outlook were often frankly colonialist, especially when addressing leaders of foreign powers. The plantations sponsored by Baron Rothschild were modeled on plantation settlement in Algeria and other colonies. Colonialism was fashionable and "progressive" in Europe, and early Zionist leaders saw nothing wrong in assimilating this idea to Zionism along with other "modern" ideas such as socialism, utopianism and nationalism.

This changed as socialist Zionists came to dominate the Zionist movement. Later Zionists were heavily influenced by socialism and embarrassed at the colonialist aspects of the Zionist project. They were also aware, of course, that Palestine was already occupied by Arabs. Many however, including the young David Ben--Gurion, who headed the Executive Committee of the Zionist Yishuv (Jewish community) in Palestine and was later the first Prime Minister of Israel, initially thought that the Arabs could only benefit from Jewish immigration and would welcome it. Others, such as Eliezer ben Yehuda, frankly envisioned removal of the Arabs from Palestine.

One of the earliest warnings about the Arab problem came from the cultural Zionist writer Achad Haam (Asher Ginsberg), who wrote in his 1891 essay "Truth from Eretz Israel" that in Palestine "it is hard to find tillable land that is not already tilled", and moreover

From abroad we are accustomed to believing that the Arabs are all desert savages, like donkeys, who neither see nor understand what goes on around them. But this is a big mistake... The Arabs, and especially those in the cities, understand our deeds and our desires in Eretz Israel, but they keep quiet and pretend not to understand, since they do not see our present activities as a threat to their future... However, if the time comes when the life of our people in Eretz Israel develops to the point of encroaching upon the native population, they will not easily yield their place.
Arab opposition to Zionism grew after 1900. The birth of Arab nationalism and Arab political aspirations in the Ottoman empire coincided with the arrival of a fairly sizeable number of Zionists with the announced program of settling the land and turning it into a Jewish national home. In his book, Reveil de la Nation Arab in 1905, Najib Azouri stated that the Jews wanted to establish a state stretching from Mt. Hermon to the Arabian Desert and the Suez Canal. Azoury wrote:

Two important phenomena of the same nature but opposed, are emerging... They are the awakening of the Arab nation and the latent effort of the Jews to reconstitute on a very large scale the ancient kingdom of Israel. These movements are destined to fight each other continually until one of them wins.

*Mandel, Neville, The Arabs and Palestine, UCLA, 1976

Arabs recognized that the Jews had a historic claim to the land, and that is precisely what frightened them. The mayor of Jerusalem, Zia al Khalidi, wrote to Tsadok Khan, chief rabbi of France:

Who can contest the rights of the Jews to Palestine? God knows, historically it is indeed your country. But he asserted that the brutal force of reality prevented resettlement of Palestine by Jews. Khalidi concluded:

In the name of God, leave Palestine in peace. (Nusseibeh, Sari, Once Upon a Country, Farrar, Strauss and Giroux, 2007, p 23)

Arab nationalism was not recognized by the early Zionists because it did not exist. The Arabs, along with the West, recognized that Palestine had belonged to the Jews, and that the Ottoman Empire and the Arabs were colonialist occupiers, asserting their claim based on might rather than justice. This perception would soon change.

Local Arab opposition to Zionism and Zionist settlement was not initially based on national sentiment, but on specific conflicts arising from land purchases and on racism and prejudice and against Jews. Rashid Khalidi (Palestinian Identity, Columbia, 1997) notes that beginning about 1908 Palestinian newspapers offer extensive evidence of anti-Zionist agitation. Actual conflicts flared up because the Zionists purchased large tracts from landowners and subsequently evicted the tenant farmers. The former tenants, though they had received compensation, continued to insist that the land was theirs under time honored traditions, and tried to take it back by force. A notable case was Al-Fula, where Zionists had purchased a large tract of land from the Sursuq family of Beirut. Local officials took the side of the Arab peasants against the Zionists and against the Ottoman government, which upheld the legality of the sale. One hundred and fifty Palestinian notables cabled the Ottoman government to protest land sales to Jews in March 1911. .........................Post-State Zionism

Israel - Zionism creates the Jewish National Home
The British found it necessary to maintain a large military establishment in Palestine to enforce the draconian immigration policy and respond to Jewish underground attacks on British personnel. This policy was increasingly unpopular at home owing to loss of British lives. This forced the British to announce in February 1947 that they were returning their mandate to the UN. A special commission, UNSCOP, was set up to recommend a solution to the UN. The commission recommended partition. The Arabs were opposed to either partition or a binational state. The U.S. and the USSR supported partition of Palestine, and carried a large bloc of votes with them. On November 29, 1947, the United Nations voted to partition Palestine into Jewish and Arab states in General Assembly Resolution 181.

So......dolonqua, how legitimate is Jordan? Iraq? Saudi Arabia? Lebanon?

The country you live in? :rolleyes:

http://markhumphrys.com/gaza.html#civil.war

Let's face it, only Israel of all the Nations is 'deemed' illigitimate only because it is a Jewish Nation.

Does your BS never end.

Out of one side of your mouth you claim their is an Israeli Genocide of the Muslims, and then from the other side of your mouth you claim the Muslim population has grown sixfold.

You ignorantly refer to the Israelis as NAZIs when the actual historical truth is the Moslem Brotherhood and the Radical Islamic Jihadists are the NAZIs.

You need Quality Control!!!!

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html#part2

From The Muslim Brotherhood to the Third Reich
Amin Al-Husseini / Adolf Hitler Connection
1933-2002

1933

Hitler Finds Arab Support [xiii]
Arab Nazi political groups [xiv] spring up throughout Middle East:

. Young Egypt. Led by Muslim Brotherhood member Abdul Gamal Nasser (future Egyptian President). Young Egypt’s political slogan “One Folk, One Party, One Leader” is a direct translation from German of Nazi slogan.

. Social Nationalist Party in Syria. Led by Anton Saada [xv] (known as the Syrian Fuhrer)

1936

Husseini Meets Hitler’s banker
Francois Genoud [xvi] , later known as the Swiss Banker of the Hitler’s Third Reich, travels to Palestine to meet Amin Al-Husseini for the first time. Their relationship will continue well into the 1960’s.

1936

Palestine Riots

Weapon of Choice

Suicide Squads

Muslim Leaders assassinated

Amin Al Husseini in Jerusalem during 1936 Riots

Amin Al-Husseini is main organizer of riots. [xvii] He organizes suicide squads against the local authorities. Applies Nazi methodology of “systematic extermination” of any Arab suspected of less than total loyalty to Pan-Islamic vision of Muslim Brotherhood.

Any “non-Islamic” element is a threat to his Pan-Islamic vision.

Many Muslim and Christian Palestinian intellectual leaders and clerics assassinated for protesting Husseini’s Islamic terror.

1936-1938. Murdered by Husseini’s men:

Sheikh Daoud Ansari ( Imam of Al Aqsa Mosque), Sheikh Ali Nur el Khattib (Al Aqsa Mosque), Sheikh Nusbi Abdal Rahim (Council of Muslim Religious Court), Sheikh Abdul el Badoui (Acre, Palestine), Sheikh El Namouri (Hebron), Nasr El Din Nassr (Mayor of Hebron). Between Feb. 1937 and Nov 1938, Eleven (11) Mukhtars (community leaders) and their entire families slain by Amin al Husseini’s men.

1937

On Hitler’s Payroll
Amin Al-Husseini visits Jerusalem German Consul. He meets SS Hauptschanfuehrer A.Eichman and SS Oberscherfuehrer H. Hagen to discuss “the Jewish question”. [xviii] Amin Al-Husseini subsequently receives financial and military aid from Nazi Germany. [xix] [xx]

1941

Mufti Joins Hitler In

Jihad against Britain

Amin Al-Husseini arrives in Rome, where he meets fascist leader Benito Mussolini, the genocidal butcher of Ethiopians in Africa. Mussolini vows to help the Palestinian cause against the Jews. From Rome, Husseini declares Fatwa-Jihad [xxi] against Britain. He preaches the notion of Pan-Islamism, with vision of Muslim unity to further his cause.

http://www.telospress.com/main/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=324

Jihad and Jew-Hatred makes a major contribution to the understanding of radical Islamism by tracing the impact of European fascism on the Arab and Islamic world. Drawing extensively on German-language sources, Matthias Küntzel analyzes the close relationship that began in the 1930s between Nazi leaders and Muslim extremists, especially the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and the Mufti of Jerusalem. This path-breaking book provides compelling documentation of the Nazi roots of what became Islamo-fascism and jihadist terror.

This study demonstrates in historical detail how the Muslim Brotherhood has consistently placed the hatred of Jews at the center of its ideology and policies through an incendiary rhetoric that interweaves passages from the Koran hostile to Jews with elements of Nazi-style world-conspiracy theories. Ancient prejudice and modern fantasies have become a deadly combination.

Jihad and Jew-Hatred also explains how the defeat of Nazi Germany in 1945 led to the shift of the center of global antisemitism to the Arab world, laying the foundation for radical Islamist currents in and around the Muslim Brotherhood and more recent terrorist organizations.

Küntzel convincingly shows that antisemitism is no mere supplementary feature of modern jihadism, and certainly no afterthought but its defining ideological core. This hatred also goes far beyond questions of Zionism and Israel. For Islamism, not only is everything Jewish evil, but every evil is Jewish, as the writings of Sayyid Qutb and the Charter of Hamas clearly explain to anyone willing to read them. It was this Jew-hatred that fueled the Jihad of the 9/11 terrorists.

http://www.nomullas.com/islamicmeinkampf.swf

The True Roots of Palestinian Nationalism and Islamic Jihad

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/01/true-roots-of-palestinian-nationalism.html

Al-Husseini’s Nazi ambitions, even though they were now seen as part of the Holocaust that he had helped in his small way to engineer, continued to be a source of pride for his Arab supporters after his death in 1948.

And he found admirers elsewhere in the decades ahead as well. Professor Edward Said -- an associate of Barack Obama -- praised al-Husseini, former partner with the Nazis in their crimes against humanity, as “the voice of the Palestinian people.”

Yasser Arafat, a cousin of al-Husseini, referred to him as “our hero.”

So......what illigitimate countrys are y'all from? :confused:

Aloha!!!!!!!!!

dollanaqua

28-12-2010, 08:56 PM

So......what illigitimate countrys are y'all from? :confused:

Aloha!!!!!!!!!

What countries any of 'us' are born &/or bred in is irrelevant to our posts - for the very simple reason that 'we' are 'not' doing what 'those who you are defending are doing'. ;)

you are easily confused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ek5G6337yU&feature=related

Israeli abuse - "We killed Jesus & We're Proud."

snoopsnuffleopagus

28-12-2010, 09:12 PM

What countries any of 'us' are born &/or bred in is irrelevant to our posts - for the very simple reason that 'we' are 'not' doing what 'those who you are defending are doing'. ;)

you are easily confused.

You make me laugh. :D

It is not irrelevant, it is very relevant. It exhibits nicely the Hypocrasy of the Moral Relativists. Israel is more legitimate then the country you are in, I'll bet on it.

And what they are doing is defending themselves against actual Genocidal Maniacs. Tell your friends to cease fuckin' with them and there will be peace. After 61+ years you'd think you dopes would wise up. :Rolleyes

Like actually reading the New Testament we know that no man took Yahshuas/Jesus Life; He voluntarily submitted Himself to Caesar and the Mob to fulfill what was written. Only an ignorant idiot would be incited by that remark. Who are you? martin luther.......lol......

I have no animus towards the Jews. :)

John 10.
10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

The IDF
Israel Defense Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Code of ConductIn 1992, the IDF drafted a Code of Conduct that combines international law, Israeli law, Jewish heritage and the IDF's own traditional ethical code—the IDF Spirit (Hebrew: רוח צה"ל‎, Ru'ah Tzahal).[47]

[edit] Stated values of the IDFThe document defines three core values for all IDF soldiers to follow, as well as ten secondary values (the first being most important, and the others appearing sorted in Hebrew alphabetical order):[47]

Core values
Defense of the State, its Citizens and its Residents – "The IDF's goal is to defend the existence of the State of Israel, its independence and the security of the citizens and residents of the state."
Love of the Homeland and Loyalty to the Country – "At the core of service in the IDF stand the love of the homeland and the commitment and devotion to the State of Israel-a democratic state that serves as a national home for the Jewish People-its citizens and residents."
Human Dignity – "The IDF and its soldiers are obligated to protect human dignity. Every human being is of value regardless of his or her origin, religion, nationality, gender, status or position."
Other values
Tenacity of Purpose in Performing Missions and Drive to Victory – "The IDF servicemen and women will fight and conduct themselves with courage in the face of all dangers and obstacles; They will persevere in their missions resolutely and thoughtfully even to the point of endangering their lives."
Responsibility – "The IDF servicemen or women will see themselves as active participants in the defense of the state, its citizens and residents. They will carry out their duties at all times with initiative, involvement and diligence with common sense and within the framework of their authority, while prepared to bear responsibility for their conduct."
Credibility – "The IDF servicemen and women shall present things objectively, completely and precisely, in planning, performing and reporting. They will act in such a manner that their peers and commanders can rely upon them in performing their tasks."
Personal Example – "The IDF servicemen and women will comport themselves as required of them, and will demand of themselves as they demand of others, out of recognition of their ability and responsibility within the military and without to serve as a deserving role model."
Human Life – "The IDF servicemen and women will act in a judicious and safe manner in all they do, out of recognition of the supreme value of human life. During combat they will endanger themselves and their comrades only to the extent required to carry out their mission."
Purity of Arms – "The soldier shall make use of his weaponry and power only for the fulfillment of the mission and solely to the extent required; he will maintain his humanity even in combat. The soldier shall not employ his weaponry and power in order to harm non-combatants or prisoners of war, and shall do all he can to avoid harming their lives, body, honor and property."
Professionalism – "The IDF servicemen and women will acquire the professional knowledge and skills required to perform their tasks, and will implement them while striving continuously to perfect their personal and collective achievements."
Discipline – "The IDF servicemen and women will strive to the best of their ability to fully and successfully complete all that is required of them according to orders and their spirit. IDF soldiers will be meticulous in giving only lawful orders, and shall refrain from obeying blatantly illegal orders."
Comradeship – "The IDF servicemen and women will act out of fraternity and devotion to their comrades, and will always go to their assistance when they need their help or depend on them, despite any danger or difficulty, even to the point of risking their lives."
Sense of Mission – "The IDF soldiers view their service in the IDF as a mission; They will be ready to give their all in order to defend the state, its citizens and residents. This is due to the fact that they are representatives of the IDF who act on the basis and in the framework of the authority given to them in accordance with IDF orders."
[edit] Code of Conduct against militants and Palestinian civilians
Two Israeli soldiers on a street in Hebron
An Israeli soldier buys from Palestinians selling drinks at an Israeli check pointIn 2004 a team of professors, commanders and former judges, led by the holder of the Ethics chair at Tel Aviv University, Professor Asa Kasher, developed a code of conduct which emphasizes the right behavior in low intensity warfare against terrorists, where soldiers must operate within a civilian population. Reserve units and regular units alike learn the following eleven rules of conduct, which are an addition to the more general IDF Spirit:

Military action can be taken only against military targets.
The use of force must be proportional.
Soldiers may only use weaponry they were issued by the IDF.
Anyone who surrenders cannot be attacked.
Only those who are properly trained can interrogate prisoners.
Soldiers must accord dignity and respect to the Palestinian population and those arrested.
Soldiers must give appropriate medical care, when conditions allow, to themselves and to enemies.
Pillaging is absolutely and totally illegal.
Soldiers must show proper respect for religious and cultural sites and artifacts.
Soldiers must protect international aid workers, including their property and vehicles.
Soldiers must report all violations of this code.

You're lame dude, lowgrade Propaganda, biased, untruthful, contradictory.

Here's a novel thought, tell your friends in hamas; don't fuck with the Israelis.

:)

For 61 years the muslims have misplayed their hand, why don't you go help them.

You're promoting hate and violence. :(

The Truth is the IDF is one of the most Humane fighting forces in the History of Warfare.

British Colonel Kemp: Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaida Tactically Exploit International Laws of Warfare

http://www.iris.org.il/blog/archives...f-Warfare.html

And of course the British and American media have done everything they can to act as the jihadis’ fifth column against the west – nowhere more so than in Israel, on which Col. Kemp had this to say:

Here is the truth from a British Colonel:

Quote:
What is the other challenge faced by the IDF that we British do not have to face to the same extent? It is the automatic, Pavlovian presumption by many in the international media, and international human rights groups, that the IDF are in the wrong, that they are abusing human rights.

So what did the IDF do in Gaza to meet their obligation to operate within the laws of war? When possible the IDF gave at least four hours’ notice to civilians to leave areas targeted for attack. Attack helicopter pilots, tasked with destroying Hamas mobile weapons platforms, had total discretion to abort a strike if there was too great a risk of civilian casualties in the area. Many missions that could have taken out Hamas military capability were cancelled because of this.

During the conflict, the IDF allowed huge amounts of humanitarian aid into Gaza. This sort of task is regarded by military tacticians as risky and dangerous at the best of times. To mount such operations, to deliver aid virtually into your enemy’s hands, is to the military tactician, normally quite unthinkable. But the IDF took on those risks.

In the latter stages of Cast Lead the IDF unilaterally announced a daily three-hour cease fire. The IDF dropped over 900,000 leaflets warning the population of impending attacks to allow them to leave designated areas. A complete air squadron was dedicated to this task alone. Leaflets also urged the people to phone in information to pinpoint Hamas fighters vital intelligence that could save innocent lives.

The IDF phoned over 30,000 Palestinian households in Gaza, urging them in Arabic to leave homes where Hamas might have stashed weapons or be preparing to fight. Similar messages were passed in Arabic on Israeli radio broadcasts warning the civilian population of forthcoming operations. Despite Israel’s extraordinary measures, of course innocent civilians were killed and wounded. That was due to the frictions of war that I have spoken about, and even more was an inevitable consequence of Hamas’ way of fighting.

By taking these actions and many other significant measures during Operation Cast Lead the IDF did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other Army in the history of warfare. But the IDF still did not win the war of opinions – especially in Europe.

Israel’s military therefore observes a high standard of ethical behaviour and concern for innocent life which is simply without parallel or precedent anywhere else in the world. And yet it is Israel which the west singles out for demonisation and delegitimisation for ‘war crimes’ -- so much so that the very same Israeli military eulogised by Col Kemp cannot set foot in Britain without a ‘human rights’ lawyer trying to arrest them for ‘crimes against humanity’ as soon as they step off the plane.

Go figure

What do you think about that?
What about the Muslim on Muslim violence, what's your excuse for that?

Aloha!!!!!!!! :)

white horse

28-12-2010, 10:10 PM

snoopsnuffleopagus

29-12-2010, 03:51 PM

Hmmmm errrr there previously was a homeland for the Palestinians... and there still is.... it's called Palestine.

Ahoy!!!!!!!!! whitehorse, check the Actual history of the Land, anyhoo.the Palestians do have an Autonomous State: Gazastan, look what they are doing with it.

BIG LIES:
Demolishing The Myths
of the Propaganda War Against Israel

http://www.divineviewpoint.com/sane/BigLies_Israel/biglies.pdf

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND
Early Zionism
Zionist pioneers from the middle of the 19th century onward
joined the local Jewish communities in rebuilding a Jewish homeland
in what was then the Turkish Empire by purchasing land from the
Turkish Crown and from Arab landowners (effendi). There was no
invasion, no conquest, and no theft of Arab land – and certainly not
of a land of Palestine, since the Arabs living in the region had been
Turkish subjects for 400 years. Unarmed and possessing no military,
the Jews bought so much land from Arabs that in 1892, a group of
effendi sent a letter to the Turkish Sultan, requesting that he make it
illegal for his subjects to sell land to the Jews. Their successors did
the same thing, via a telegram, in 1915. Evidently, the very presence
of Jews owning land in the Middle East – however legally acquired
– was offensive to some.
It is indisputable that there was no theft, because no one complained
of any. No Arabs were driven from their homes. In fact, as a
demographic study published by Columbia University demonstrates5,
the Arab population of the area grew tremendously during this period
in part because of the economic development that the Jews helped
to generate. Between 1514 AD and circa 1850, the Arab population
of this region of the Turkish Empire was more or less static at about
340,000. It suddenly began to increase around 1855, and by 1947
HISTORICAL BACKGROUND
Early Zionism
Zionist pioneers from the middle of the 19th century onward
joined the local Jewish communities in rebuilding a Jewish homeland
in what was then the Turkish Empire by purchasing land from the
Turkish Crown and from Arab landowners (effendi). There was no
invasion, no conquest, and no theft of Arab land – and certainly not
of a land of Palestine, since the Arabs living in the region had been
Turkish subjects for 400 years. Unarmed and possessing no military,
the Jews bought so much land from Arabs that in 1892, a group of
effendi sent a letter to the Turkish Sultan, requesting that he make it
illegal for his subjects to sell land to the Jews. Their successors did
the same thing, via a telegram, in 1915. Evidently, the very presence
of Jews owning land in the Middle East – however legally acquired
– was offensive to some.
It is indisputable that there was no theft, because no one complained
of any. No Arabs were driven from their homes. In fact, as a
demographic study published by Columbia University demonstrates5,
the Arab population of the area grew tremendously during this period
in part because of the economic development that the Jews helped
to generate. Between 1514 AD and circa 1850, the Arab population
of this region of the Turkish Empire was more or less static at about
340,000. It suddenly began to increase around 1855, and by 1947
5 Justin McCarthy, The Population of Palestine, 1990
BIG LIES / 32 BIG LIES / 33
the Arab population stood at about 1,300,000 -- almost quadrupling
in less than 100 years. The exact causes of this population rise are
beyond the scope of this essay, but the causal correlation between this
independently documented phenomenon and the Zionist enterprise is
beyond rational argument.
Far from driving out any Arabs, stealing their land or ruining
their economy, the work of the Jewish pioneers in the 19th and early
20th centuries actually enabled the Arab population to quadruple, the
economy to enter the modern era, and the society to slough off the
shackles of serfdom that typified the effendi-fellah (land-owner/serf)
relationship of the Ottoman era. An Arab working in a Jewish factory
or farming community could earn in a month what his father earned in
a year eking out a living as a subsistence-level farmer using medieval
technology. Arab infant mortality plummeted and longevity increased
as the Jews shared their modern medical technology with their Arab
neighbors.
Much of the land that the Zionists purchased was desert and
swamp, uninhabited and deemed uninhabitable by the Arabs. Modern
agrarian techniques instituted by the Jews and the blood and sweat of
thousands of idealistic Zionists reclaimed that land and turned it into
prime real estate with flourishing farms and rapidly growing communities
sporting modern technology and a healthy market economy.
As a result, Arab migrants poured into the region from surrounding
states, with hundreds of thousands seeking a better life and greater
economic opportunity. Based on the above, it is fair to suggest that a
significant plurality, if not a majority, of Arabs living in Israel today
owe their very existence to the Zionist endeavor.
Validation of this history, which is quite at variance with the
standard Arab propaganda, comes from a surprising source. Sheikh
Yousuf al-Qaradhawi, international Arab terrorist and lieutenant to
Osama bin Laden, in a televised speech in May, 2005,6 chided his followers
with the following words: “Unfortunately, we [Arabs] do not
excel in either military or civil industries. We import everything from
needles to missiles…How come the Zionist gang has managed to be
superior to us, despite being so few? It has become superior through
knowledge, through technology, and through strength. It has become
superior to us through work. We had the desert before our eyes but we
didn’t do anything with it. When they took over, they turned it into a
green oasis. How can a nation that does not work progress? How can
it grow?” 7 (emphasis added)
It was precisely this success of the Zionist endeavor that aroused
the fear and ire of Arab leaders. Zionist progress, technology, economy,
and the Jews’ willingness to share this technology with their Arab
neighbors radically threatened the medieval stranglehold of the effendi
over the fellahin (peasantry). Turkish methods of insuring tranquility
under the Sultan were rather draconian. Consequently, as part of
the Turkish Empire, the Arabs in the region did not wish to risk civil
disturbance, and therefore maintained a stoic sufferance of the Jewish
presence that some have interpreted as tolerance. But the British rule
that followed the First World War was not so severe. When Britain
took over the governance of British Mandatory Palestine (today the
states of Israel and Jordan), Arab leaders discovered they had a much
freer hand. Stoking religious hatred and fanning the flames of fellah
resentment with lies about the Jews’ intent to destroy Islam, representatives
of the leading effendi families led by the Hajj Amin el-
Husseini began an Islamic jihad involving a series of pogroms against
the Jews.

Gaza

http://markhumphrys.com/gaza.html

Whithorse: If you claim Israel is illigitimate, may I inquire what illigitimate Nation/Stae you reside in?

Thankyou!!!!!!!!!!!

Middle East News and Reference

http://www.mideastweb.org/

http://www.zionism-israel.com/

Aloha!!!!!!!!!!! :)

snoopsnuffleopagus

29-12-2010, 03:57 PM

What if the Palestinians get a home?
From what I can gather there can't be a Middle Eastern war at the moment because it's just Israel doing the attacking. But now France are saying they will support the creation of a country for Palestinians, which is fine. Only, then there will be a country to fight back at Israel, with the Americans behind Israel fighting the rest of the world who'll be behind Palestine, probably.

For several years the Isralies have been behaving badly and getting a bad press with only America seemingly condoning their actions. So, if there is a war then France at least will probably be supporting the Palestinians. I'm thinking of that video from the 80's showing that chap saying that there will be World War Three, it seems to me that the pieces are coming together.

Here's your answer:

Gaza

http://markhumphrys.com/gaza.html

Gaza demonstrates the pointlessness of giving the Palestinians their own state.
Israel left Gaza in 2005. All Jews were expelled. At last the Palestinians could demonstrate clearly that they deserved a state. Did the Palestinians in Gaza seize the chance of building a free and prosperous state? Did they encourage industry, trade and tourism, and peace with their neighbours? Did they set up a liberal parliamentary democracy, with freedom of speech, freedom of sexuality and freedom of religion?

No, of course not. After Israel gave them what they wanted in 2005, the Palestinians in Gaza got worse, not better. They looted their own infrastructure, elected Hamas, continued teaching their children to hate Jews, and did not stop but rather escalated terror attacks on Israel.

Until the Palestinians change their entire political and religious culture, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will never end. There is nothing Israel (or the West) can do. All they can do is wait for the Palestinians to change. Giving them land, and a state, simply escalates the conflict.............

To avoid War......Peeps have got to become informed, learn to discern between Propaganda and Factual, historical Reality.

Give Credit where Credit is due and assign Blame where Blame is due........

The Palestinian Arabs have been very foolish, wasting, squandering Resources and exploits the uninformeds emotions to support Hamas, Fatah and Hizbollah.

to hate Jews without cause...........

The hour is getting late............let us stop talking falsely.

Aloha!!!!!!!!! :)

armoured_amazon

29-12-2010, 04:08 PM

vancity eagle

29-12-2010, 06:51 PM

LUKE 21:24 JERUSALEM WILL BE TRODDEN DOWN BY THE GENTILES UNTIL THE TIME OF THE GENTILES BE FULFILLED

Guess what folks, the time of the Gentiles has not been fulfilled. Jerusalem is still being trodden. Neither the Palestinians, or the "so called" Jews were the people in the land when it was called Israel over 3000 years ago. They are both GENTILES. The Palestinians have been there longer however.

The real Israelites are still scattered across the four corners of the earth,living in poor conditions, most unaware of their true identity, but they are slowly awakening. (read Ezekial 37 valley of dry bones).

snoopsnuffleopagus

30-12-2010, 07:52 PM

Real Jews know Israel is against YHWH's promise. And even if it WAS given to them - which it wasn't, because there has been no supernatural order to create the State yet, Scripture says Love thy Neighbour. Thus, they should share the land, end of.

LUKE 21:24 JERUSALEM WILL BE TRODDEN DOWN BY THE GENTILES UNTIL THE TIME OF THE GENTILES BE FULFILLED

Guess what folks, the time of the Gentiles has not been fulfilled. Jerusalem is still being trodden. Neither the Palestinians, or the "so called" Jews were the people in the land when it was called Israel over 3000 years ago. They are both GENTILES. The Palestinians have been there longer however.

The real Israelites are still scattered across the four corners of the earth,living in poor conditions, most unaware of their true identity, but they are slowly awakening. (read Ezekial 37 valley of dry bones).

Aloha Armoured Amazon; I suggest you read this Book:

For the Sake of Heaven and Earth, by Irving (Yitz) Greenberg)
http://books.kolel.org/2009/01/for-sake-of-heaven-and-earth-by-irving.html

At this point in History Israel is a Legitimate Secular Jewish State, there is complete Freedom of Religion and Equality for all the Gentile Citizens. It is not a Theocracy.

The History, which I have Posted above enumerates their Love to the Agrressor Palestinian Arab Extremeists. Avail yourself of the Data. :)

They provide all sorts of Aid, food, water, fuel technology....the arabs were given 85% of the Land, the Jews received 15% of the Land.

In 1947 the Arab World declared Total War against Israel promising Genocide of all Jews and total destruction of Israel as a Nation.

Against all odds and without any substantial foreign assistance Israel survived.

The Israelites were massively outmanned, outgunned and outresourced.

The fact they survived is quite telling.

Aloha!!!!!!!!!! vancity eagle, check out the actual Rabbinic Midrash on your selcted Verses. ;)

This is from an actual Rabbi, a 27 part Series about the 'Israelites', as you say many don't realise they are. Many are Xns which is watered down Judaism.

THE FULL RESTORATION OF ISRAEL!
http://yourarmstoisrael.org/Articles_new/restoration/?page=home&type=2

YHWHs Promises and Covenants are Eternal, He does not break His promises.

The Jews regarded the lands of their captivity and dispersion as their "graves"; their restoration was to be as "life from the dead" (Ro 11:15). Before, the bones were in the open plain (Eze 37:1, 2); now, in the graves, that is, some of the Jews were in the graves of actual captivity, others at large but dispersed. Both alike were nationally dead.

13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:

16. stick-alluding to Nu 17:2, the tribal rod. The union of the two rods was a prophecy in action of the brotherly union which is to reunite the ten tribes and Judah. As their severance under Jeroboam was fraught with the greatest evil to the covenant-people, so the first result of both being joined by the spirit of life to God is that they become joined to one another under the one covenant King, Messiah-David.

Judah, and . children of Israel his companions-that is, Judah and, besides Benjamin and Levi, those who had joined themselves to him of Ephraim, Manasseh, Simeon, Asher, Zebulun, Issachar, as having the temple and lawful priesthood in his borders (2Ch 11:12, 13, 16; 15:9; 30:11, 18). The latter became identified with Judah after the carrying away of the ten tribes, and returned with Judah from Babylon, and so shall be associated with that tribe at the future restoration.

New Testament Fulfillment
The fulfillment of this prophecy is ongoing. Israel became a nation again in 1948 and continues to re-gather.

Description Of Prophecy:

This is a promise from God to regather, revive, restore and save the Nation of Israel. In the end Israel will be ruled by the King of all Kings, Messiah. This prophecy is often referred to as The Valley Of Dry Bones.

Fulfillment:

The fulfillment of this prophecy is ongoing. National Israel is currently being regathered from the four corners of the world to begin the first half of this dry bones prophecy. Since 1948, Israel (the Dry Bones in this prophecy) has been in the process of being put back together (as a nation). Although the amount of Jews still being regathered to Israel is growing almost daily, this part of the prophecy is considered fulfilled (or at least partially fulfilled) due to United Nations recognition of Israel as it's own nation in it's own land.

Still to come: In Ezekiel's prophecy it is important to note that first Israel is regathered or put back together but yet still without life. Then God puts His Spirit in them and they become alive. There still is no (Spiritual) life in the nation, or in Ezekiel's words "there was no breath in them" (Ch. 37: Verse 8). For the most part this is Israel's current state of being. An exception to this would be the Messianic Jews. God has allowed this fast growing group (sometimes referred to as The Jewish Remnant) to know the truth about Messiah before the nation as a whole realizes this truth. The majority of Israel is currently considered secular in religious practice with those choosing to embrace Orthodox Judaism being a minority.

There are other events that play an important role in knowing when God will bring Israel back to spiritual life or "put His Spirit in them so they can live (eternal salvation)." Of course God's Spirit is Holy so this verse refers to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Some of these events are:

•Rebuilding Of The Temple:
•The Rapture:
•The Time Of Jacob's Trouble:
•The Coming Coalition Against Israel (Ezekiel 38:2-6):

Comments:

Israel Will Be Regathered:
•V. 12 promises to regather: "I will bring you back to the land of Israel."
Israel Will Be Revived:

•V.14 promises to revive: "I will put my Spirit in you and you will live."
Israel Will Be Restored As An Undivided Nation:

•V.19 promises restoration: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am going to take the stick of Joseph-- which is in Ephraim's hand-- and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah's stick, making them a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand."
Israel Will Be Saved:

•V.23 promises salvation: "I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God."

Israel Will Be Ruled By The King Of Kings Messiah:

•V.24 promises a Messianic King: "'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd."

From The Talmud:

The dead will come back to life. For more on the talmudic perspective please read Talmud Dry Bones.

Related Prophecies:

For a more in depth look at the meaning of this prophecy please read The Regathering Of Israel.

Aloha!!!!!!!!!!!! :)