Quantum awareness

[raggie]

Hi, I have read somewhere that if an atom knows it is being observed it will behave differently to how it would if it was unaware of being observed. I am aware that everything, including us, is/are made from atoms. Therefore is the fact that we, in human form, change our behaviour in awareness of being observed due to a reaction at a sub atomic level or is it more likely to be a psychological ie conditioned response? I would appreciate your views. Warmest regards

[dave_voce]

Hi, I have read somewhere that if an atom knows it is being observed it will behave differently to how it would if it was unaware of being observed. I am aware that everything, including us, is/are made from atoms. Therefore is the fact that we, in human form, change our behaviour in awareness of being observed due to a reaction at a sub atomic level or is it more likely to be a psychological ie conditioned response? I would appreciate your views. Warmest regards

Not atoms, but subatomic particles or quantum particles. And apparently they change from being here or there or this or that in response to being looked at. Very strange. If true it opens a can of worms. I once asked a physicist to explain it to me hopng that i'd come away enlightened, but it just confused me further.

[raggie]

Thanks for your valued input, it's a lot more complex than I imagined. I have some experience in behavoural pyschology and thought I had a good understanding of the subject. However I can't shake the notion that behaviour is less to do with how we are conditioned by society and maybe more to do with unknowingly being led by these pesky particles.

[ragnarok]

This is The Uncertainty Principle in action. Uncertainty principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In quantum mechanics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle states by precise inequalities that certain pairs of physical properties, such as position and momentum, cannot be simultaneously known to arbitrarily high precision. That is, the more precisely one property is measured, the less precisely the other can be measured. The principle states that a minimum exists for the product of the uncertainties in these properties that is equal to or greater than one half of the reduced Planck constant (ħ = h/2π)*.

* I'm not even going to pretend I know what that means, but my understanding of the idea is that things that happen on the macro or quantum level are like physical fundamental processes for reality, akin to the human beating of the heart, or functioning of the lungs, ie. something that goes on automatically or unconsciously in the background, but when it is focused on, it can be affected.

Popper's criticism:
Karl Popper criticized Heisenberg's form of the uncertainty principle, that a measurement of position disturbs the momentum, based on the following observation: if a particle with definite momentum passes through a narrow slit, the diffracted wave has some amplitude to go in the original direction of motion. If the momentum of the particle is measured after it goes through the slit, there is always some probability, however small, that the momentum will be the same as it was before.

Popper thinks of these rare events as falsifications of the uncertainty principle in Heisenberg's original formulation. To preserve the principle, he concludes that Heisenberg's relation does not apply to individual particles or measurements, but only to many identically prepared particles, called ensembles. Popper's criticism applies to nearly all probabilistic theories, since a probabilistic statement requires many measurements to either verify or falsify.

Popper's criticism does not trouble physicists who subscribe to the Copenhagen interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. Popper's presumption is that the measurement is revealing some preexisting information about the particle, the momentum, which the particle already possesses. According to the Copenhagen interpretation, the quantum mechanical description of the wavefunction is not a reflection of ignorance about the values of some more fundamental quantities; it is the complete description of the state of the particle. In this philosophical view, Popper's example is not a falsification, since after the particle diffracts through the slit and before the momentum is measured, the wavefunction is changed so that the momentum is still as uncertain as the principle demands.

[raggie]

Well that's just turned my head inside out and made a mess on the carpet. While I let it percolate through me is it possible to relate that information to an example? For instance I am aware of a very good darts player who can, on the practice board and in front of an audience, hit everything and anything on the board. However whenever he plays in front of the TV cameras he can't perform at all. Do you think that the sub atomic particles are playing a hidden role?

[ragnarok]

It's a lovely idea, but I think it's more likely to be down to his psychological make-up. He needs to forget about the cameras and concentrate on feeling his arrows again. FEEL the arrow, BE the arrow!

[raggie]

Thanks. You are right of course. I am going to have to go and get my head round it somehow. I have got it into my head that somewhere there is a tangible connection between quantum physics and human behaviour. Particularly with regards to confidence and paronia. I think this is just the beginning of a journey for me. Thank you for your input. I am warmed by your positive responses.

[pixie_shhh]

* I'm not even going to pretend I know what that means, but my understanding of the idea is that things that happen on the macro or quantum level are like physical fundamental processes for reality, akin to the human beating of the heart, or functioning of the lungs, ie. something that goes on automatically or unconsciously in the background, but when it is focused on, it can be affected.


is this how "healing" works? focusing on an area? how to a degree you can lessen pain by focusing on it and letting it go?

love your posts man lolol

raggie - try coming back to it and research some surrounding areas to it - i know it sounds like distraction and procrastination, but the amount of things i couldnt get my head around i found soooooooo much easier to grasp with some additional learning of related subjects, even ones loosly associated

[ponzi nemesis]

Great thread :).

If you really want to blow your mind then spend some time thinking about the Many-World Interpretation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation) (MWI). Watch "What the bleep do we know", very easy to find, and "The Voice" by David Sereda, rarer but there was a torrent known to thepiratebay last time I looked, or it is worth buying.

I could rabbit on for hours about this stuff; I've spent a lot of time thinking about it all over the last couple of years. Have a look, at least, at the MWI stuff, perhaps, and I can chat a bit more about it all if you are interested. I'll probably just give you more questions than answers, but isn't that the only way it ever is :).

[ragnarok]

is this how "healing" works? focusing on an area? how to a degree you can lessen pain by focusing on it and letting it go?

I can see what you're thinking. When you consider that "pain" is just a sensation received in the brain as a kind of burst of hyper-electrical activity, if you could control those electrical reactions at the molecular level, I suppose you wouldn't need anaesthetics.


love your posts man lolol

Flattery will get you everywhere. :D

[raggie]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I am definately going to read all I can on and around the subject. You have all given me so many places to go and seek answers. I do believe that all things connect. I don't have a computer, just a cheap mobile that doesn't play videos. I may be sometime but I will post anything worth sharing. I've 'lurked' here for a while and nearly gave up due to the trolling/flaming etc. You have all shown me that it's worth being brave. Thanks

[pixie_shhh]

i wont be trusting that anytime soon on a litrel level!!!lmfao

i often wonder if many know how Magick plays a part in quantum physics? The manipulation of particles molecules atoms and whatnot (as you can tell i havnt mastered this subject either haha) making something out of "nothing"... manipulating "nothing" ...

i personally dont beleive in "aliens" in the outerspace way of thinking... (not closed minded, but nothing "rings" right with me yknow? ...however my husband and i have had MANY a conversation of "aliens" being of different realities/worlds/parralels etc...

Also when you consider "thought-forms" ... well.. it opens many a door of conversation and debate lol..

[pixie_shhh]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I am definately going to read all I can on and around the subject. You have all given me so many places to go and seek answers. I do believe that all things connect. I don't have a computer, just a cheap mobile that doesn't play videos. I may be sometime but I will post anything worth sharing. I've 'lurked' here for a while and nearly gave up due to the trolling/flaming etc. You have all shown me that it's worth being brave. Thanks

lol i havnt been a member long, but the above mentioned trolls and flaming (and some down right idiots) have been testing my patience lolol

[wthree]

The whole awareness thing is very very interesting. I could potentially raise questions about the general understanding of the universe, and answer them.

The point is this that a particle can behave differently through the act of observation.

I've been looking into this for a while to see if I can come to some kind of conclusion, but Quantum physicists (QP) haven't got very far.


The interesting part is about the idea of consciousness, and the argument between certain QP's and Neurologists. The idea is that consciousness is more than whats in the brain. Although this may be possible, its relation to quantum physics implies that its our observation that changes it, but that may not be the case, and its rather arrogant to assume that its our observation that changes the outcome.

[dave_voce]

I think we're living in interesting times concerning quantum physics etc, it's like we're on the edge of understanding something. And the idea that a quantum particle can be affected by thought is a mind blowing concept and can obviously lead you to some interesting ideas. The prevailng wisdom is that quantum particles behave in some very stange ways and larger things, even though they are made entirely of quantum particles, behave in ordered and predictable ways, and that's obviously a bit of a mystery.

I personally think that the conclusion will be that reality doesn't exist.

[pixie_shhh]

i like those posts...

If you consider the fact that we human beings instinctivly KNOW we are being watched (im not talkin "illuminati" i'm talking from across the room, across the street) our hair pricks up on the back of our necks so we OURSELVES change just from being watched...

and we act diffierently too

[dave_voce]

Another interesting thing about quantum particles is they seem to be able to communicate with each other irrespective of distance and apparently faster than the speed of light. So if there is a relationship between the quantum world and our world then this might mean that everything is connected, or it may suggest that it's a hologram. There's an experiment running at the moment that's looking into this...
http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2010/10/20/fermilab-scientists-to-test-hypothesis-of-holographic-universe/

[pixie_shhh]

if that is the case, what happens when the hollogram "projector" is turned .... off ...?
are there any theories?

[dave_voce]

Maybe that's death. I don't know, although i doubt there's some big projector somewhere, i think although it appears to be a bit like a hologram there's a bit more to it than our silly little holographic projections. Mystics have often said that it's consciousness, so maybe that's what it is, but behaving in a holographic type of way.

[pixie_shhh]

you ever notice that a lot of gods are depicted in lotus meditating? and a lot of people refer to this life as our dream selves... that this is only a dream... or a "ride" or an intensive learning tool.... but thats probably another thread :)

[pixie_shhh]

did you notice that the diagram looks a LOT like the masonic sign? 'G' and all?

http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2010/10/20/fermilab-scientists-to-test-hypothesis-of-holographic-universe/

[tru3]

may i offer a couple of ruminations?

History Channel SuperHumans: Sword Swallower Swallowing RED-HOT SWORD! - YouTube

this is from a show on the history channel called super humans. the clip i really wanted to see was the samurai sword master who cut a bullet in mid-flight-- three times-- and the martial arts master who could generate (don't hold me to this because someone told me about the episodes and the show) about 10-20 thousand pounds of force per square inch from a punch about 3 inches from the target.

she told me the one thing that they had in common was that they both had the ability to: a) change their brain state, and b) drop their heartbeat to almost nil while they were demonstrating.

ken wilber stops his brainwaves. even he admitted this is just a "parlor trick" (i.e. fun but meaningless in the overall scheme of things) but it got peoples' attention.

Ken Wilber Stops His Brain Waves - YouTube

when i heard about the dart player, i couldn't help but remember hearing michael jordan saying in an interview he never heard the crowd. and how tiger woods' father would just abuse him on the tee to get him to tune out distractions. tiger's just another sad lonely boy, but he does have intense concentration, and he is in absolute touch with his instrument, his swing. he is aware of every nuance and when he's out of alignment.

what are the common factors? silence. stillness. intent. will. awareness. concentration. focus. dare we say the ability to lose the double-slit? the interference patterns most of us are prone to are dissolved? who knows what we could do? could be?

the particles of the bullet seem to be in coherence with the will of the sword master, not the other way around.

or, perhaps there really is no spoon, so to speak. who knows? my mind chews its cud, ruminating. :D

http://www.theeestory.com/files/neo_stops_bullets.jpg

i often wonder if many know how Magick plays a part in quantum physics?

it seems like the magic may be in us, as well. :)

[pixie_shhh]

that is fascinating... ill have to watch the clips at a more godly hour

yep its said to be its within us also... we're all gods, apparently lolol...

tiger woods dad abused him "on the T" ? like with it or someshit? im trying to put together how SUCH a distraction couldn't be a distraction???

[tru3]

tiger woods dad abused him "on the T" ? like with it or someshit? im trying to put together how SUCH a distraction couldn't be a distraction???

Tiger Woods - YouTube

here is the accompanying blog (http://mindcontrolblackassassins.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/tiger-woods-a-mk-ultra-satanic-ritually-abused-victim-2/)

earl played nice for tv here. nevertheless, this is a form of child abuse, imho. i mean, how many child stars have gone through the hollywood meatgrinder, fed by the broken dreams of their sperm-and-egg donors?

look at his eyes. a little electrochemical sponge. man. maybe if i could watch a video of everyone i judge when they were children, i might judge less?

my dad used to do shit like this to me. trot me out in front of his friends and impress them with my "abilities". when i was that age. throw a peanut at the monkey. dance monkey dance.

ugh. yes, i was subject to mind control, performed (and i was pre-formed) by an inept scared angry resentful 21 year old man child.

i think there is mk ultra, but i don't think there are as many known agents as people suspect. earl was in the military. tiger, i don't know. probably. the section on NLP is quite interesting.

i think people give the ITPTB too much credit sometimes.

our parents do a fine job on us, too, all by themselves.

edit: hope that's not off topic. my point was, yes, tiger was abused on the tee. much worse than this by all accounts.

[tru3]

doh. :rolleyes: