Does the NWO exist?

[vegan_on_the_land]

I don't believe many of the things that many of you believe. But I often wonder why you believe them when you don't believe other things. Why believe one particular thing but not another? For example, many believe that the US and UK governments were behind the bombings of the World Trade Centre, the Pentagon, a London bus and tube trains. The governments would deny these things if anyone asked them. And some of you would roll your eyes knowingly. But why don't they also deny that the intelligence about the Weapons of Mass Destruction was wrong? Why don't they insist that it was right? They could have gone further and displayed such weapons after invading Iraq. A few missiles with 'Death to Britain' painted on them would have been convincing.

And why did the Americans admit that one of their men probably killed that woman hostage in Afghanistan? The first reports said one of her captors had killed her. They should have just left it at that and most people would have believed them.

Does anyone believe the story about an American having killed her is a lie, too? Does anyone believe the governments are lying about the intellingence on WMD being wrong?

And, if the Chinese government can control over one milliard people with a fist of iron, why can't the UK government do it with our population of just 60 million? Why aren't people here who criticise the government sent down for 11 years? If TPTB control the world, why can't they control all countries equally?

Why did the UK have a trial a few years ago in which 4 Algerians were accused of plotting to use ricin to kill people - but didn't manage to fabricate enough evidence against them to ensure they were found guilty? Why was 20 million pounds spent on the trial without getting the result they wanted?

If the NWO exists, it seems the leaders are incompetent, fickle and rather stupid. Or perhaps it doesn't exist. Any thoughts?

[energi]

Thing is going both ways - it exists, we/all/most of humanity as a whole participate in holding the structure up for it to continue

[ragnarok]

You ask some pertinent questions, OP, but the confusion evident in your post is what any covert branch of tptb relies upon to continue holding on to the reins of power.

[marina2012]

nothing new about the NWO, it's actually quite old, established for thousands of years

[anthonyml]

I don't believe many of the things that many of you believe. But I often wonder why you believe them when you don't believe other things. Why believe one particular thing but not another? For example, many believe that the US and UK governments were behind the bombings of the World Trade Centre, the Pentagon, a London bus and tube trains. The governments would deny these things if anyone asked them. And some of you would roll your eyes knowingly. But why don't they also deny that the intelligence about the Weapons of Mass Destruction was wrong? Why don't they insist that it was right? They could have gone further and displayed such weapons after invading Iraq. A few missiles with 'Death to Britain' painted on them would have been convincing.

The wtc and london bombings are completely different to the weapons of mass distruction as they would never llet it out that they killed their own people as there would be hell to pay but with the WMD they just say yeah we might have been wrong but atleast we saved iraq from saddam and think thats alright, your question about why didn't they just fake finding the weapons is a good one and i have no answer

And why did the Americans admit that one of their men probably killed that woman hostage in Afghanistan? The first reports said one of her captors had killed her. They should have just left it at that and most people would have believed them.
i think it was supposed to be coverd up but one of the soldiers spoke out too soon before he was told to keep it shushed

Does anyone believe the story about an American having killed her is a lie, too? Does anyone believe the governments are lying about the intellingence on WMD being wrong?

And, if the Chinese government can control over one milliard people with a fist of iron, why can't the UK government do it with our population of just 60 million? Why aren't people here who criticise the government sent down for 11 years? If TPTB control the world, why can't they control all countries equally?
simply the chinese are communist and we live in a democracy which are to rather different thing,"Why aren't people here who criticise the government sent down for 11 years?" is just a really strange question i dont know what to say

Why did the UK have a trial a few years ago in which 4 Algerians were accused of plotting to use ricin to kill people - but didn't manage to fabricate enough evidence against them to ensure they were found guilty? Why was 20 million pounds spent on the trial without getting the result they wanted?
i think they were set up as scapegoats but in the end they didn't have enough evidence

If the NWO exists, it seems the leaders are incompetent, fickle and rather stupid. Or perhaps it doesn't exist. Any thoughts?

"If the NWO exists, it seems the leaders are incompetent, fickle and rather stupid" all that has been said many a time before but from all of your comments you just dont seem to have done any research in to any of this, try looking in to the rockerfellers, rotherchilds and jp morgan as well as the bilderberg group

[malkor]

do a search of all the world's influential people/leaders who have mentioned working towards an nwo agenda. start with us presidents. that will answer your question.

[nirvanix]

In 1871 two of the worlds top freemasons, Albert Pike and Giusseppe Mazzini, discussed in writing that there would be 3 world wars in the future, and went on to describe the first two fairly accurately decades before they happened. Pike said the 3rd would be between the Islamic world and political zionists. Obviously there is an NWO and they are employing long-planned strategies

[vegan_on_the_land]

I have no doubt that there are powerful people - often behind the scenes - who are controlling things. But I don't believe they have the power to have aeroplanes flown into buildings. There are religious fanatics who are willing and able to do these things, though. It is not impossible that a government could trick the fanatics into doing what they want but it doesn't make sense to me. If the secret was ever leaked it would bring the government down. And such a secret would be hard to keep because many people would have to be involved. A better way to trick the fanatics into committing atrocities would be to blow up a few important mosques - perhaps by 'accident' when they were supposed to be aiming at legitimate targets.

Also, by admitting that there were no WMDs, those two traitors, Blair and DD Bush, were made to look like the fools they are. Other politicians would be less likely to work with the NWO now that they know they could be abandoned and left open to ridicule. If I was the leader of the NWO, I would treat my minions well to keep them loyal. Imagine if some top politician decided to blow the whistle before they could be silenced.

If governments or the people behind them want to incite citizens into acts of rebellion so that martial law can be imposed (supposing that that's what staging atrocities is designed to do) why don't they just control people the way people are controlled in China, Burma, North Korea and Iran? If the NWO controls the world they will control those countries and could control all countries in a similar manner. The political system of any given country could be overturned overnight - if there is a powerful NWO.

As some have suggested, I could do research but I wouldn't know what to believe. The waters are too muddy and there are conflicting views. I have enough on my plate researching the things I'm already researching. There are structural engineers who say the Twin Towers couldn't have collapsed just from plane crashes and others who say they could. As I am not a structural engineer, I have no way of knowing which side is right. The same goes for every piece of evidence. The beauty of consiparacy theories is that it can be said that if anything is not provable it is because evidence has been twisted or withheld or people have been bribed.

There could be inconsistencies to cause confusion but the inconsistencies could be due to there being no overall control by some powerful body.

If any of you think you know what THEY are planning, you should do all you can to publicise it by broadcasting exactly what will happen and how it'll happen so people are forewarned. And TPTB's plans are forestalled. And, if the events happen, people will know you speak the truth and that the NWO wants to control them.

[anthonyml]

/shakes head.... you really haven't looked in to anything have you
400 posts about what exactly ?

blair and bush are gone now the elites have new puppets

i have no doubt in my mind that if the nwo comes in to action that the whole world will be controlled like china is now

"If any of you think you know what THEY are planning, you should do all you can to publicise it by broadcasting exactly what will happen and how it'll happen so people are forewarned" errrr hello your on the david icke forum.... hes been trying to tell people for years and we are the forewarned

[anthonyml]

I have no doubt that there are powerful people - often behind the scenes - who are controlling things. But I don't believe they have the power to have aeroplanes flown into buildings

i am sorry but that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard :o they are voted in to power to run a country, they are given an army to control aswell as serveral government agentcies that are know to do a lot of dodgy things behind the scenes and they can declare war on whatever country they like, scramble jets in seconds all whilst being sat there with a red button in front of them.

and you doubt they have the power to have aeroplanes flown into buildings :confused:

[zetetic0void]

I don't believe many of the things that many of you believe.


It's good not to believe everything you read or hear. I don't believe everything I read here or anywhere. In fact I don't agree with a few things in the replies stated below.

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For example, many believe that the US and UK governments were behind the bombings of the World Trade Centre, the Pentagon, a London bus and tube trains. The governments would deny these things if anyone asked them.

I don't really agree with that way of saying that. I feel it is incorrect to say the "US Government" and UK Government" were involved. Even the statement "Inside Job" can mislead understandings. These ways of talking about things makes it sound like the entire governments were involved when it would have been just a small group with some involved who were not even in the governments (suggestions would be George H.W. Bush - father of the prez and Jerome Hauer - working for Kroll Associates who got ex-FBI "Bin Laden expert" (John O'Neil) head of security job at WTC where O'Neil died).

So saying the governments or even the whole CIA or the whole Mossaad were involved are too concrete. Even the idea of blaming all of Freemasonry doesn't feel right to me. There can always be pockets or small groups with power who infiltrate systems with their own agendas (take Skull and Bones from Yale for example - this group apparently has the main purpose of promoting and supporting it's members into future areas of power - so if Prescott Bush, G.H.W Bush and then George Bush jr and John Kerry who he ran against for pres were all Skull and Bones , then this is something that people should be at least concerned about).

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But why don't they also deny that the intelligence about the Weapons of Mass Destruction was wrong? Why don't they insist that it was right? They could have gone further and displayed such weapons after invading Iraq. A few missiles with 'Death to Britain' painted on them would have been convincing.

My idea is that people in authority who have committed lies towards some agenda can always say there was some problem with Intelligence Gathering and incompetence within the system where info from the FBI didn't get channeled correctly and such. This seems to me to be an easy method of passing blame and dispersing it into some nameless, faceless Bureaucracy.

Heck ... Rumsfeld even admitted the misplacement of a 2.3 trillion dollars in funds in a talk the day before 9/11 ./... barely anyone even knows about tbis and it's over 2 trillion dolllars!

2.3 TRillion Dollars Missing from DOD Day before 911 2001 Rumsfeld LIES - YouTube

pentagon.the.day.before.9-11 - YouTube


It seems it's easy for people in authority to get up in front of cameras and say there is some massive error and they can't locate trillions of missing dollars of their intelligence was wrong and there weren't WMD in those precise locations in Iraq I listed afterall ... gee, how did that happen. Then they go about their business as usually and all news watching tax-payers have something to shake their heads about and blame (making themselves a little ego boost of superiority at the water cooler at work - "those darned politicians wasting my tax dollars again... oh well, are there any Twix bars in that machine over there?)
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And, if the Chinese government can control over one milliard people with a fist of iron, why can't the UK government do it with our population of just 60 million? Why aren't people here who criticise the government sent down for 11 years? If TPTB control the world, why can't they control all countries equally?

Dictatorships are the hard and dumb way of controlling the masses. They always have to have armed police and tight rules to keep the populace in it's place.

The smart and easier way is to give the populace the illusion and feeling of having freedom and power.

In our modern so-called 'democracies' (one in which a father and son both named George can be president almost at the same time as a husband -Clinton- and cheated-on wife also can be presidents - this shows how poor the actual process of choice is. Add to this that George Bush jr and John Kerry were the two choices for president and they were both Yale Skull and Bonesmen both of whiom would only say "they can't talk about it because it's so secret" when asked in interviews , and we have a pathetic setup that is hardly any choice at all).


So if you can give the populace of the US and UK (and similar western democracies) the appearance and feeling of freedom where they get to purchase tons of neat gadgets (mostly cheaply made in China ironically) and have the freedom to rant all they want at the end of news stories and articles (their political rants just gt pushed to page 2 and 3 and 10 and never seen again anyway) , then everything mainly rolls along smoothly.

But try and stand up and interupt John Kerry, George Bush or Bill Clinton and you will get their response of belittling you with humour and an escort from the room whilst the crowd of amused sheep laugh and clap in agreement.

Bill Clinton says 9/11 Truthers are idiots - YouTube

Or worse still you get MSNBC "news" talking heads saying the following while showing a clip about a person who brings up 9/11 at another Bill Clinton talk (campaigning for his wife)

1... he should be taken away to some secret jail in eastern Europe never to be heard from again.

2... "where's ther Taser ... tase him bro" ( a reference to the University event where the student asked John Kerry about Skull and Bones but was taken out and tasered before the answer was given)... 'I hope we have a special prison for 911 conspiracy theorists"

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


The John Kerry taser incident is at

University of Florida student Tasered at Kerry forum - YouTube


Some people claim the student was pushy and butted in and then resisted police but really, why was he allowed to ask his question and then the police start trying to get him.

It seems asking uncomfortable questions is very difficult in western democracies.


When you get right down to it, our so-called "democracies" are anything but real democracies. They are facades and if you cross the socially acceptable line, you will be carted away out of the crowd and the rest of the crowd will laugh and clap and continue to listen to the Bill Clintons and George Bushes say their repetitive nonsense over and over.



Anyone with any real public image that massive numbers of people may actually get to listen to can and have been silenced. It's up to you to investigate who but some suggestions of likely silenced people would include John F Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King jr, John Lennon, possibly even US congressman Larry MacDonald (who died in the Soviet shooting down of Korean Flight 007 in 1983.

Korean Air Lines Flight 007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (wiki watered-down info)

Larry MacDonald had some interesting things to say about the "New World Order"

Larry McDonald on the New World Order. Pt 1/2 - YouTube


Congressman Larry MacDonald died three months later in the shooting down of that flight flight


It's up to you to investigate history and what most likely is happening. But to disregard assassinations as being just "lone nut gunmen" in modern history is an assumption fed to you to believe (especially in the US from Lincoln who fought against Banker-induced central banks to the assassination-rich 60's up to Reagan's near-death ... at the hands of son of a family friend of George H.W. Bush, former CIA director and Reagan's vice president at the time). Considering the known and verified CIA projects like MKUltra and other mind altering/control projects, it is a bad assumption to believe ones' government when it says these things can't really affect anyone to be used to assassinated anyone.



Reagan Assassination Attempt Hinkley Connected to Neal Bush, Haig and Bush Sr 3 31 1981 ABC

Reagan Assassination Attempt Hinkley Connected to Neal Bush, Haig and Bush Sr 3 31 1981 ABC - YouTube

This ABC news cast mentions that the shooters brother knew vice president George H.W. Bush's son , Neil ("W's" brother)

at 3:20 in that clip, the ABC news caster says Scott Hinckley (brother of Ronald Reagan's shooter) was friends with Neil Bush and they had diner plans which had been cancelled


..... doesn't anyone see something fishy enough to be majorly investigated here? If this was any normal poor slob on the street, these suspicious connections would be gone over with a fine tooth comb by police - but because Vice President (and former CIA director) George H.W. Bush knew the father of the shhoter and the brother of the shooter was friends with the the son of the US Vice resident, this apparently is not worthy of any more attention than a few minor news casts.


How utterly but sadly laughable!
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If the NWO exists, it seems the leaders are incompetent, fickle and rather stupid. Or perhaps it doesn't exist. Any thoughts?


If the 'New World Order' as a concept and phrase does not exist, perhaps we should write to former CIA director & former president of the US, Goerge H.W. Bush (senior , "W's" father) and tell him he must have been mistaken when he gave these talks

New World Order - YouTube

(the date in the second part should be Sept 11, 1990 I think - not 1991 ... so 11 years before 9/11, 2001)



The opinion I have is that there are tons of various complex systems (so example, mass media companies, government or military bureaus, etc) but generally, the tops of these systems have few or often one main head in various.

But a main tool of manipulating the minds of the populace is through the media. If the so-called "news" is on your agenda's side, you have automatically gotten public opinion believing reality and history is a certain way.

Rupert Murdoch of FOX has this to say about this subject

Murdoch of Fox News Admits Manipulating the News for Agenda - YouTube




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I have no doubt that there are powerful people - often behind the scenes - who are controlling things. But I don't believe they have the power to have aeroplanes flown into buildings. There are religious fanatics who are willing and able to do these things
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I disagree that these "religious fanatics" who supposedly trained on Cessnas with a max speed of less than 100 knots would be able to even hit the World Trade buildings once let alone twice.


Fully trained commercial pilots (check out 'Pilots for 911 Truth' website) who flew Boeing B737, B757's and the like found it incredbible difficult in the multi-million dollar Level-D flight simulation systems.

pilotsfor911truth - New Trailer for 9/11: Speeds - 23 Min Long

pilotsfor911truth - New Trailer for 9/11: Speeds - 23 Min Long - YouTube


Pilots for 9/11 Truth: Airplane controllability

Pilots for 9/11 Truth: Airplane controllability - YouTube

- the official speeds in the official explanation of 911 exceed operating speeds of that model of Boeing aircraft for those low altitudes

- these pilots and trainers with hundreds and thousands of hours and years of practice in really Boeing airliners could not accomplish what these supposed arabs who trained a bit on tiny Cessnas!


Add to this the fact that at those low altitudes, the official speeds for the events are impossible and these rank novices who trained on single engine prop aircraft would have had no chance at hitting the WTC buildings as

The Pentagon is even more of a problem with the extremely difficult maneuverings that even seasoned B757 pilots said were impossible even for them.

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Now, it's up to you what to believe or say you mostly believe ... .there are tons of ideas which I ignore and even think are total nonsense.


Other good investigators are the Architects and Engineers for 911 truth

http://www.ae911truth.org/


Also I found Antony C. Sutton's research into the funding of Hitler and communism from the western financial systems (eg, Wall Street and involvement of Prescott Bush - father of first Bush pres and grandfather of second Bush pres) to be good. He also details precisely information suggesting western transfer of tech to enable German aviation fuel from coal as well as developement of tech for Soviet nuclear missiles during the Cold War. He also researched Yale's Skull and Bones thoroughly.


Professor Antony Sutton: Wall Street & the rise of Hitler 1

Professor Antony Sutton: Wall Street & the rise of Hitler 1 - YouTube


Antony Sutton über Skull and Bones - 1/4

Antony Sutton über Skull and Bones - 1/4 - YouTube




Sorry for rambling .... don't believe everything automatically

[koagula]

Lozenges

[vegan_on_the_land]

anthonyml, I know that Ickey is telling the world and that there are discussions on this forum but I find it very hard to take talk of human-lizard hybrids, Pleiadeians, and Jewish plots seriously. Most people would dismiss them out of hand, the way they would dismiss talk of goblins and dragons. Mixing them in with the NWO will weaken the message and turn people away. If there is an NWO, it would love to know it is being mentioned in the same breath as lizards and Atlantis.

Imagine if someone in 1934 had said that Hitler was a menace because he wanted to take over all of Europe. That would have been a very plausible statement. But not if it was also said that Hitler was in league with some giant squirrels.

I know governments have a lot of power but I didn't phrase things correctly. I doubt they have the power to fly aeroplanes into the World Trade Centre and keep their part in it a secret. It would be better for their purposes to blow up mosques by accident or have some right-wing nutters blow them up. That way, there'd be no dissent when the the fanatics launched suicide attacks on New York City and London Town because the guilty government would have apologised and given compensation or vowed to catch the right wingers.


zetetic0void, What you say makes more sense than the blanket belief that whole governments were behind it. But it's still easier to believe that Moslem terrorists flew the planes. An efficient intelligence agency wouldn't make daft mistakes, such as leaving someone's passport at the scene of the crime after the fact. They wouldn't have blown the buildings up long after the plane crashes when the whole world was watching. They would have known that if anything looked suspicious there would be experts who would find the mistakes. It would have been much easier to detonate huge bombs at the base of the buildings and blown them up that way without any need for flying bombs.

And then they are supposed to have made mistakes in the Tube and bus bombings four years later after all the controversy over the New York bombings. They would have made certain there were no inconsistencies, such as switched off cctv cameras or trains that didn't run.

For them to admit the WMD mistake - which led to a war that killed over 100,000 mainly innocent people - will mean no one will ever believe them again when they make some mealy-mouthed excuse for going to war. They could say enemy missiles were heading to every major city but no one would believe them unless the missiles actually exploded. They should have kept quiet and insisted there were WMD. And ridiculed any intelligence personnel who tried to tell the truth. There will always be brave whislte blowers - like David Graham of the FDA who told us about the vioxx scandal - but they can be silenced if the stakes are high enough.

Dictatorships are the hard and dumb way of controlling the masses. They always have to have armed police and tight rules to keep the populace in it's place.

The smart and easier way is to give the populace the illusion and feeling of having freedom and power.

Yes. You would think the NWO - if it controls the whole world - would do something about China and Burma.

I'll look at some of the names of people who may have been silenced. But wasn't Reagan a bit of a war-monger. Why would anyone want him dead?

I'll look at those Pilots for 9/11 Truth videos later when I have time. But I wonder who did fly the planes and how they were made to do so?

I can believe that people like DD Bush's grandfather would have tried to make money out of the Second World War and that Kennedy's father was a Nazi sympathiser.


I suspect we are gradually being taken into a world-wide police state, with a world currency and world government but I'm not convinced it is happening exactly as some people believe. If I was behind it, it would be done much more cleverly than the ham-fisted approach some believe is being used. I don't believe there is a NWO (yet) but we are in danger of helping it to happen by promulgating incredible theories that will make most people laugh or groan and convince them the governments are not as bad as we say they are.

As I said earlier, tell the people what is happening and what will happen. But keep away from what is not provable or what is too outlandish.

You seem to be thinking along the same lines, zetetic0void, when you wrote:

When you get right down to it, our so-called "democracies" are anything but real democracies. They are facades and if you cross the socially acceptable line, you will be carted away out of the crowd and the rest of the crowd will laugh and clap and continue to listen to the Bill Clintons and George Bushes say their repetitive nonsense over and over.

[zetetic0void]

I'll look at some of the names of people who may have been silenced. But wasn't Reagan a bit of a war-monger. Why would anyone want him dead?


One main possibility is that of George H.W. Bush snr. (former CIA director) who was running against Reagan for republican nomination but then became Reagan's Vice president .... if Reagan had died, Bush would have automatically become president in the early 80's instead of later on.

Considering that Bush's son Neal was a friend of the shooter's brother and that father Bush (vice prez) had gotten financial contributions from John Hinckley senior, the whole thing has a mess of suspicious connections.

Some have brought up the idea that the assassination of John Lennon months before the Reagan attempt was somewhat of a practice run for the use of mind-control (CIA MKUltra) Hinckley jnr to kill Reagan.


One key question is why was this connection between the Bushes and Hinckleys barely mentioned after this news cast and maybe one other printed source in a Houston newspaper.

(similarly in modern times, the long time connection between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family is largely ignored or brushed over by mainstream media as "just conspiracy theory")
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But I don not know the possibly complex levels of corruption and tangled up agendas in high politics. I have heard of such things as relations between the Mafia and various politicians or use by the CIA for some things. Here are a few other ideas that possibly could entangle politicians into following certain directives.


1... blackmail - suppose there was a some big unofficial late night party and certain politicians were involved. Get some photos of a certain target politician with some call-girls at this event and this could be used as pressure to make him go along with your agenda ... reveal this to the newspapers and his wife and his career and home-life is down the drain.

2... just offering money to certain people will make them go along with some desired agenda.

3... if these don't work and some politician knows a lot and likes to talk, they threaten that his children or wife (or husband) will have "an unfortunate accident".

4... last resort could be an "accidental plane crash" with a certain person as a passenger.


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As far as the whole idea of reptilian shape-shifters is concerned, I have seen no convincing arguments and even if it was totally true, unfortunately it sounds so unbelievable that most typical people will disregard all information about NWO if they see info about alien shape-shifting lizards also in the mix. In a way (from a strategic point of view or as a chess move), even if this was true, it might be more useful not to actually say this as most people won't take your other statements seriously.

............

So I think quotes such as this from David Rockefeller's own book "Memoirs" is pretty useful in showing how these big controllers (He's with Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission and Bilderburg):

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as "internationalists" and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it. "

page 405 - David Rockefeller's "Memoirs"


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Yes. You would think the NWO - if it controls the whole world - would do something about China and Burma.


It appears that the NWO agenda of elements of the west is in a bit of a chess game with certain other elements of the world (China, Russia, etc).

Even though it appears there is good evidence of not only financial aide from certain wealth in the west to give to the early Bolsheviks in Russia which soon after became Communism but also evidence of transfer of technology for nuclear missiles, and help with mass industrialization to the Soviets from the west, the Soviets and Chinese no doubt would be wanting to run their own show and cause their own influences.

It seems to me that certain powers are still trying to get their version of the One World system into place but not make it seem like a bad thing (to scare the populace). So the idea of them controlling things in some obvious way is not really what I think is happening. ...David Icke's phrase of the Totalitarian Tip-toe sounds good ... small changes over long time so as not to make anyone stop and see whats happening.

Also sometimes (just like in chess) powers may wish to make it seem like they have no power to affect something but really they just want the other side to capture their piece because they know the next move will put the other side in an even worse spot.


So a big question is whether there are people and groups with so much wealth and influence that if they made small tweaks to whole central banks and financial systems, they could affect all sides - in a way becoming untouchable players. It appears to me that research into the history of the Federal Reserve in the US and other central bank situations is a key area of research.

[dusthead]

There will always be some sort of potential 'NWO' in action.

However I think a lot of people on this board over-estimate the effectiveness of such organisations. For example, America have been attempting to take over the world forever - That's the problem!

If we look at the Bush administration's shoddy approach to foreign policy, it did more damage than good. Whereas there was previously a divide between neo-conservatism and islamic radicalism, there is now a gulf. In fact the efforts of the Bush administration have actually damaged any notions of a 'one-world-democracy' (for want of a better phrase). Neo-conservatism is currently residing in the bargain bins of outdated political ideologies and Bush has gone down in history as one of the worst politicians in history. Even now, with the release of his auto biography, he is a laughing stock. The Bush administration created more conspiracy theorist mindsets than at any other point in living memory. How is that effective?

And so it goes on. At one time Russia's ideal of a 'new world order' was a noble concept, concerned with nuclear disarmament.

By contrast, Islamic radical ideas of an 'NWO' are completely unacceptable to any rational mind as they embrace murder and destruction. They are almost identical to neo-conservatism in their preoccupation with fear.

This is not to mention the desire for global domination expressed by virtually every religious organisation on the face of the planet.

Are all these organisations working closely together? It doesn't seem to be the case. If they were, they certainly wouldn't be attempting to wipe each other out. But suspicious minds on these boards would say that's all part of the hoax.

This is a quote from a little known low budget film in which a nihilist and a conspiracy theorist argue about the effectiveness of the few to control the many -

It's maybe hard for you to understand, but there's no conspiracy. Nobody is in charge. It's a headless blunder operating under the illusion of a masterplan. Can you grasp that? Big brother is not watching you.

The nihilist is explaining that control can never be 100% effective, because the people supposedly running the show are incompetent. Looking at recent world events this sentiment is easy to empathise with. However, as these message boards are preoccupied with uncovering evil clandestine organisations which may or may not exist, it is unlikely that the words will resonate here.

[vegan_on_the_land]

zetetic0void, I acknowledge that some rich and powerful people - like Rockerfeller - have plans to make themselves richer and more powerful - such as a world bank and world government - but I think there are various separate groups trying to do so. Not one NWO controlling everything.

I haven't looked at the pilots for 11/9 truth yet.


dusthead, in reply to your quote of Big brother is not watching you. I would say that there are lots of little brothers who want to become big brother. If people are vigilant, stand up for their rights, and don't make outlandish claims that will put others off, we could stop them.

[stopthemadness]

I find it very hard to take talk of human-lizard hybrids, Pleiadeians, and Jewish plots seriously

Imagine if someone in 1934 had said that Hitler was a menace because he wanted to take over all of Europe. That would have been a very plausible statement.

I doubt they have the power to fly aeroplanes into the World Trade Centre and keep their part in it a secret.

But it's still easier to believe that Moslem terrorists flew the planes.

But I wonder who did fly the planes and how they were made to do so?

I can believe that people like DD Bush's grandfather would have tried to make money out of the Second World War and that Kennedy's father was a Nazi sympathiser.

I suspect we are gradually being taken into a world-wide police state, with a world currency and world government but I'm not convinced it is happening exactly as some people believe.

But keep away from what is not provable or what is too outlandish.


:rolleyes:

[nirvanix]

:rolleyes:

It's ok to speculate, but I never boast or present as fact anything I don't have evidence for. For example, people speculate there is someone higher up the pyramid than the Red Shield Gang, but I've never seen any evidence in that regard, so I don't go around saying it although it certainly could be true.

[stopthemadness]

I was referring to the lumping of Reptilian theories with Jews. I.e. Jews controlling the world is equal to "kooky" like believing in ET's.

Hitler reference.

Orthodox, Arabs-With-Boxcutters best explanation for 911.

Bush = Nazi deflection from the true perpetrators of 911 such as Larry SilverSTEIN.

Soft-pedaling of the very real NWO agenda as "suspect" we are "gradually" slipping into totalitarianism, but not the same totalitarianism that others provide evidence for.

Sorry, I thought my eye roll explained all that.

Sniff, sniff ... I smell gefilte fish cooking.

[bendoon]

And, if the Chinese government can control over one milliard people with a fist of iron, why can't the UK government do it with our population of just 60 million? Why aren't people here who criticise the government sent down for 11 years? If TPTB control the world, why can't they control all countries equally?


People are in jail, people do dissapear. If they allow someone to continue unmolested then all that means is that they aren't saying anything that would pose a real threat to them. If you are speaking out on things that pose a real threat to them you will come under close scrutiny very quickly. In the West they rely heavily on the illusion of democracy and if they are seen to be too strict that illusion would soon dissapear and the risk of a violent revolution would be graetly increased, they do not want to risk the Guillotine again.

[vegan_on_the_land]

I can't see the similarities between our relatively free countries and places like China, Burma, Iran, and North Korea. A man was sentenced to 11 years in China for calling for more freedom. That student who stood in the way of the tank in Tiaminen Square in Peking has never been seen again. We have Brian Haw haranguing MPs, shouting at government ministers as they are driven by and managing to stay where he is despite parliamentary attempts to get him away from parliament. We have David Icke accusing the previous PM of disgusting crimes. People say that Blair should be put on trial for telling lies about the Iraq war and waging aggressive war. We had the recent student riot in London Town.

None of these things would be tolerated in those other countries. Being famous in the public gaze wouldn't protect someone. Ickey would be done away with in China despite everyone knowing what he'd said and why he'd disappeared.

There are people from Iran and China who have fled here because they know from personal experience that it is very different from their countries.

[ozpixie]

I don't believe many of the things that many of you believe. But I often wonder why you believe them when you don't believe other things. Why believe one particular thing but not another? For example, many believe that the US and UK governments were behind the bombings of the World Trade Centre, the Pentagon, a London bus and tube trains. The governments would deny these things if anyone asked them. And some of you would roll your eyes knowingly. But why don't they also deny that the intelligence about the Weapons of Mass Destruction was wrong? Why don't they insist that it was right? They could have gone further and displayed such weapons after invading Iraq. A few missiles with 'Death to Britain' painted on them would have been convincing.

And why did the Americans admit that one of their men probably killed that woman hostage in Afghanistan? The first reports said one of her captors had killed her. They should have just left it at that and most people would have believed them.

Does anyone believe the story about an American having killed her is a lie, too? Does anyone believe the governments are lying about the intellingence on WMD being wrong?

And, if the Chinese government can control over one milliard people with a fist of iron, why can't the UK government do it with our population of just 60 million? Why aren't people here who criticise the government sent down for 11 years? If TPTB control the world, why can't they control all countries equally?

Why did the UK have a trial a few years ago in which 4 Algerians were accused of plotting to use ricin to kill people - but didn't manage to fabricate enough evidence against them to ensure they were found guilty? Why was 20 million pounds spent on the trial without getting the result they wanted?

If the NWO exists, it seems the leaders are incompetent, fickle and rather stupid. Or perhaps it doesn't exist. Any thoughts?

Well, I don't think they are as smart as they think.

But as for the overall question about the existence of the NWO best you ask old Father Bush, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Angela Merkel, Nicholas Sarkozy, John Howard, Kevin Rudd, Stephen Harper and all the other country leaders who have referred to this wonderful future we can look forward to under its management. They think its real and are working under its instructions.

Doesnt that tell you something?

[hurr]

NWO is like Satan. It does exist but only to those who believe in it.

Likewise Santa Claus exists to children but not to adults.

[jensen]

I don't believe many of the things that many of you believe. But I often wonder why you believe them when you don't believe other things. Why believe one particular thing but not another? For example, many believe that the US and UK governments were behind the bombings of the World Trade Centre, the Pentagon, a London bus and tube trains. The governments would deny these things if anyone asked them. And some of you would roll your eyes knowingly. But why don't they also deny that the intelligence about the Weapons of Mass Destruction was wrong? Why don't they insist that it was right? They could have gone further and displayed such weapons after invading Iraq. A few missiles with 'Death to Britain' painted on them would have been convincing.

And why did the Americans admit that one of their men probably killed that woman hostage in Afghanistan? The first reports said one of her captors had killed her. They should have just left it at that and most people would have believed them.

Does anyone believe the story about an American having killed her is a lie, too? Does anyone believe the governments are lying about the intellingence on WMD being wrong?

And, if the Chinese government can control over one milliard people with a fist of iron, why can't the UK government do it with our population of just 60 million? Why aren't people here who criticise the government sent down for 11 years? If TPTB control the world, why can't they control all countries equally?

Why did the UK have a trial a few years ago in which 4 Algerians were accused of plotting to use ricin to kill people - but didn't manage to fabricate enough evidence against them to ensure they were found guilty? Why was 20 million pounds spent on the trial without getting the result they wanted?

If the NWO exists, it seems the leaders are incompetent, fickle and rather stupid. Or perhaps it doesn't exist. Any thoughts?

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/proof.htm

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-references-protocols-full-text-folder.html

Here is the nwo and how they do/did it. if u belive it is up to u :)
they dont care, they control every aspect of your life anyway.

[vegan_on_the_land]

I'll read and reply to the last few posts later. Too tired. Need a cuppa and some handstand practice and then want to do some weight training. And a bath will be nice before the neighbours start complaining again.

[vegan_on_the_land]

Well, I don't think they are as smart as they think.

But as for the overall question about the existence of the NWO best you ask old Father Bush, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Angela Merkel, Nicholas Sarkozy, John Howard, Kevin Rudd, Stephen Harper and all the other country leaders who have referred to this wonderful future we can look forward to under its management. They think its real and are working under its instructions.

Doesnt that tell you something?

What they mean by it and what others mean by it might not be the same. I don't think those political people have said that it is an evil, fascist dictatorship that want's to control every aspect of people's lives.

[vegan_on_the_land]

ht-tp://ww-w.biblebelievers.org.au/proof.htm

ht-tp://ww-w.jewwatch.com/jew-references-protocols-full-text-folder.html

Here is the nwo and how they do/did it. if u belive it is up to u :)
they dont care, they control every aspect of your life anyway.

I'm not going to read rubbish that says the Protocols of the Elders of Brian is real.

As a member of the Inner Sanctum of the Ovaltinies, I know it was a forgery made by the Tufty Club.

[water versus ice]

-> Debunk This! 201 (NWO) - YouTube

[jensen]

I'm not going to read rubbish that says the Protocols of the Elders of Brian is real.

As a member of the Inner Sanctum of the Ovaltinies, I know it was a forgery made by the Tufty Club.

lol, you are saying that cause, u are a member of an organisation ,that if the protocols are indeed real ,is set up by zionists,to fill me with shit to protect the truth.and i should take your word for it ?

the verdict zionists and ignorants use as proof that the texts are fake never said that,the verdict was, that it was a fabrication of an earlyer text, so the text IS real, the 1903 copy was a copi !!.
maby read the protocols again m8, and ask yourself if a fake text would really be outlawed?.if your lodge is really as noble as you say it is, howcome its structure is exactly as detailed in the protocols?. if zionism is not real why does the worlds last socalled superpower bow in the dust on everything conserning israel. howcome the israeli pm often says flat out that they control the world?

[vegan_on_the_land]

There's no point in trying to reason with someone who believes such rubbish as the Procul Harem of Elvis's Sighing.

[bendoon]

What they mean by it and what others mean by it might not be the same. I don't think those political people have said that it is an evil, fascist dictatorship that want's to control every aspect of people's lives.

If they did say that it would be sort of a giveaway don't you think.

Just look at their actions in Afghanistan and Iraq, do you think they are bringing about a better world for everyone by bombimg countries that don't agree with them into submission ?

[vegan_on_the_land]

I agree that there are powerful people who have evil intentions or intentions the results of which most would view as evil. But I don't believe there is a concerted effort and grand plan amongst all these groups to take over the world.

[ozpixie]

I agree that there are powerful people who have evil intentions or intentions the results of which most would view as evil. But I don't believe there is a concerted effort and grand plan amongst all these groups to take over the world.

I used to believe as you do until I read, with my own eyes, the words written by David Rockefeller in his memoirs. In this book which I don't have so I can't quote more accurately, he proudly admits to being part of a cabal to do just that.

[djhooker]

if you think the government can't remote control planes, check out operation northwood.

[jensen]

I agree that there are powerful people who have evil intentions or intentions the results of which most would view as evil. But I don't believe there is a concerted effort and grand plan amongst all these groups to take over the world.

You are a member of Inner Sanctum of the Ovaltinies. So offcourse you will say that.!!

"I agree that there are powerful people who have evil intentions or intentions the results of which most would view as evil".

mason speak for, you know there is, you are a member, but we goyim just dont have the wisdom to see its a good thing that u manipulate,control and want to kill us.

"But I don't believe there is a concerted effort and grand plan amongst all these groups to take over the world"

u know there is, but sadly what u think is a grand plan is simply genocide, for money and power.

[jensen]

p.s Why is it that Zionist religion, is exactly the same thing as the masonic mysteries ?

[nirvanix]

I agree that there are powerful people who have evil intentions or intentions the results of which most would view as evil. But I don't believe there is a concerted effort and grand plan amongst all these groups to take over the world.

You need to read Between Two Ages by Zbgniew Brzezinski. By the way this is the man that writes Obama's speeches and the man that boasts of creating Al Qaeda as Carter's national security advisor. According to him they will set up a "technotronic dictatorship" were you will be tracked and traced every minute of your life. TPTB have already planned for 30 years of insurrection by the populace as we head into tyranny. Why do you think we have all the globally implemented "security" measures, as well as sound cannons, unmanned drones that spy and kill on demand, new laws allowing extra-judicial assasinations of anyone, etc.

[vegan_on_the_land]

p.s Why is it that Zionist religion, is exactly the same thing as the masonic mysteries ?

Not being a Zionist nor a mason, I don't know if they are the same. I imagine that anyone who's not a mason won't know what masons do. There may be books about it but only a mason would know if they are accurate.

About all the suggestions to read books and watch videos, there are only so many hours in the day and I like to devote a lot of time to doing good works and helping those less fortunate than myself. I am especially keen to continue my work helping fallen women. This takes up a lot of my time but I might look into some of the things that have been mentioned. But, they are written by people and people tell lies or exaggerate. How could I know they are telling the truth? We have people on this forum who, despite all the documents and sworn testimonies, still deny the reality of the Holocaust.

[clint_giles]

does a bear shit in the woods?

[jensen]

Not being a Zionist nor a mason, I don't know if they are the same. I imagine that anyone who's not a mason won't know what masons do. There may be books about it but only a mason would know if they are accurate.

About all the suggestions to read books and watch videos, there are only so many hours in the day and I like to devote a lot of time to doing good works and helping those less fortunate than myself. I am especially keen to continue my work helping fallen women. This takes up a lot of my time but I might look into some of the things that have been mentioned. But, they are written by people and people tell lies or exaggerate. How could I know they are telling the truth? We have people on this forum who, despite all the documents and sworn testimonies, still deny the reality of the Holocaust.

Whos denying the holocaust?. Pointing out that zionists set up the banking system, and the masonic lodges, isent denying the holocaust. your using old tricks.

[dreamweaver]

If the NWO exists, it seems the leaders are incompetent, fickle and rather stupid. Or perhaps it doesn't exist. Any thoughts?

If it doesn't exist, there are an awful lot of world leaders who can't stop namedropping it...

Emergency Broadcast! New World Order Ahead! - YouTube

[vegan_on_the_land]

Whos denying the holocaust?. Pointing out that zionists set up the banking system, and the masonic lodges, isent denying the holocaust. your using old tricks.

I'm not accusing any of the posters here of being Holocaust deniers. I mean that there is evidence for the Holocaust put forward by learned historians but many people don't believe it. If I see purported evidence for the NWO why should I believe it?

[vegan_on_the_land]

If it doesn't exist, there are an awful lot of world leaders who can't stop namedropping it...



I know a lot of these people refer to it but IT might not be what people here mean it to be. I think that when the Communists took over Russia they probably said there would be a new world order - where the rich no longer ruled and where everyone would be equal. It all went horribly wrong but I'm sure some said that without having a vision of a world controlled by some powerful, unaccountable elite.

[ladybird]

I'm not accusing any of the posters here of being Holocaust deniers. I mean that there is evidence for the Holocaust put forward by learned historians but many people don't believe it. If I see purported evidence for the NWO why should I believe it?


In German a denier is someone who KNOWS the truth and LIES about it.

So especially laws should be pre-formulated unambiguously and the HOLCAUST DENIAL LAWS
should in fact be called HOLOCAUST DISBELIEF LAWS instead.

Because someone who does not want to believe because he does not know the truth
cannot be called a DENIER.

At least in German language.

Isn't that strange enough?

Doesn't that make you start to think?

Everyone endowed with a hint of reason surely does.




How could I know they are telling the truth? We have people on this forum who, despite all the documents and sworn testimonies, still deny the reality of the Holocaust.


Many of the "documents" have already been proven to be fakes.
Many "witnesses" have already been convicted of lying and perjuring.


So you are a NWO disbeliever?
Are you a 9/11 believer, too?

9/11 DISBELIEF LAWS might be next.

I am now pro 9/11 DISBELIEF LAWS because all people should be treated equally before the law.

There are people incarcerated all over Europe already.
A 73 year old lawyer was sentenced to 12.5 years for not believing.
In Austria the law provides for up to 20 years for not believing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial_laws




WWI > WWII > NUREMBERG TRIALS > UN > NWO

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145253




.

[vegan_on_the_land]

Many of the "documents" have already been proven to be fakes.
Many "witnesses" have already been convicted of lying and perjuring.


So you are a NWO disbeliever?
Are you a 9/11 disbeliever, too?

9/11 DISBELIEF LAWS might be next.

I am now pro 9/11 DISBELIEF LAWS because all people should be treated equally before the law.

There are people incarcerated all over Europe already.
A 73 year old lawyer was sentenced to 12.5 years for not believing.
In Austria the law provides for up to 20 years for not believing.



WWI > WWII > NUREMBERG TRIALS > UN > NWO

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145253




You say many documents have been proven to be fakes. That is your belief. As I have said before on other threads, no one knows what happened in history if they didn't experience it. We can only rely on what others tell us. I believe the soldiers who liberated the camps and the survivors of the camps.

I am a NWO sceptic. Actually, until it is proven to me, I don't believe in the NWO concept that many of you believe in. I don't believe there is a single, powerful elite who control us.

I believe the 11/9 bombings were the work of Moslem extremists and will believe it until something else is proven.

I don't think there should be a Holocaust denial law.

As I said, there is evidence for the Holocaust but some people choose not to accept it. I don't accept any evidence I have yet seen for the NWO.