The David Icke Paradox

[steppewar]

Having read David Ickes last 4 books and found them interesting and informative I have spotted an apparent paradox with belief,illusion and infinite conciousness.For example,when a committed Christian dies according to his illussiory Christian belief system,he may well experience or meet Jesus in the spiritworld dimension of The Matrix.Likewise Muslims,Hindus and other religious people may experience icons of their particular belief system.The paradox is the contradiction between an athiest when he dies,his illussiory belief system,(that conciousness ceases to exist with physical death) and that we are all infinite conciousness.How can the athiest survive physical death when his belief system does not allow this ?

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

A wise man. Probably even the wisest to ever exist, once taught:
A baby cries when it comes into the world, because it realizes where it is.

[graflok]

How can the athiest survive physical death when his belief system does not allow this ?

Because belief systems don't mean squat.

The universe is the way it is. Sorry.

[kasalt]

Having read David Ickes last 4 books and found them interesting and informative I have spotted an apparent paradox with belief,illusion and infinite conciousness.For example,when a committed Christian dies according to his illussiory Christian belief system,he may well experience or meet Jesus in the spiritworld dimension of The Matrix.Likewise Muslims,Hindus and other religious people may experience icons of their particular belief system.The paradox is the contradiction between an athiest when he dies,his illussiory belief system,(that conciousness ceases to exist with physical death) and that we are all infinite conciousness.How can the athiest survive physical death when his belief system does not allow this ?

That would have been a great question for David Icke's November Video-cast, but yesterday was the last day to submit questions. Next time, perhaps...

[smariot]

The atheist finds himself in black empty void, and basically loses all sense of time. But eventually his mind starts to wander, and when he becomes aware of this he comes to the realization that despite having no body and no world to interact with, he still exists. And then it occurs to the atheist that if he's dead but he still exists, there might be a God after all. And then he notices that he's in a black empty void and there's no bright light anywhere to be seen. And then it occurs to him that since he never worshiped god or went to church, he's probably going to hell, and then he starts to panic and the void starts to fill with strange sounds. This scares the crap out of the atheist and before you know it, he's being tortured by demons.

[seer74]

An Atheist does not survive physical death. A consciousness that once resided in an Atheist survives the death the Atheist and goes "Whoah where the BLEEP was I?";)

[titurel]

Having read David Ickes last 4 books and found them interesting and informative I have spotted an apparent paradox with belief,illusion and infinite conciousness.For example,when a committed Christian dies according to his illussiory Christian belief system,he may well experience or meet Jesus in the spiritworld dimension of The Matrix.Likewise Muslims,Hindus and other religious people may experience icons of their particular belief system.The paradox is the contradiction between an athiest when he dies,his illussiory belief system,(that conciousness ceases to exist with physical death) and that we are all infinite conciousness.How can the athiest survive physical death when his belief system does not allow this ?
It's possible that if a person believes there is nothing after death, then that is what they find. The future can only be created if one has imagination. No imagination and there is nothing... nothing after death. It's also possible that a person may lie in a nothing state for vast periods of time... until they begin to question whether there is something after all. The spirit cannot cease, but it can go into the funnel of disintegration, into the abyss and out the other end, completely divested of all the karma they had accrued during their lengthy fall, to be ejected out of the reverse end as a pure new spirit being, having to begin the long process to consciousness all over again. The oject of the exercise is to get over the abyss. This concept features, not only in the Bible but the Kabbalah. The abyss is like a black hole and there are many Reptilian other dimensional beings that get a perverted kick from helping people fall into the abyss. The same applies to people that believe there is no God. One has the right to believe that, but potentially, if one believes there is no God, then there is also the possibility that they will never discover God after death, because they refuse to believe it. The question then arrises how they deal with the eager Reptilian beings!

[pigpot]

Because belief systems don't mean squat.

The universe is the way it is. Sorry.

More good stuff there graflok.......

[baron von lotsov]

Having read David Ickes last 4 books and found them interesting and informative I have spotted an apparent paradox with belief,illusion and infinite conciousness.For example,when a committed Christian dies according to his illussiory Christian belief system,he may well experience or meet Jesus in the spiritworld dimension of The Matrix.Likewise Muslims,Hindus and other religious people may experience icons of their particular belief system.The paradox is the contradiction between an athiest when he dies,his illussiory belief system,(that conciousness ceases to exist with physical death) and that we are all infinite conciousness.How can the athiest survive physical death when his belief system does not allow this ?


Very good. I don't think there is an Icke answer for that but then a lot of people support Icke for his position regarding the NWO and would wish that he would shut up about his New Age theories since we know they were produced from Tavistock kind of places to purposefully confuse the proles. I expect you have already come across the one about traffic lights. Hippy A's reality says the traffic lights are green, then there is Hippy B on the other road of the crossroads who also in his reality thinks the traffic lights are green. So what happens next, do they drive through each other or what?

[soglad]

A big hippy fender-bender is a comin'.

[carlg1212]

Having read David Ickes last 4 books and found them interesting and informative I have spotted an apparent paradox with belief,illusion and infinite conciousness.For example,when a committed Christian dies according to his illussiory Christian belief system,he may well experience or meet Jesus in the spiritworld dimension of The Matrix.Likewise Muslims,Hindus and other religious people may experience icons of their particular belief system.The paradox is the contradiction between an athiest when he dies,his illussiory belief system,(that conciousness ceases to exist with physical death) and that we are all infinite conciousness.How can the athiest survive physical death when his belief system does not allow this ?

Icke is paradoxical when he lambasts Christianity. He says religion is bullshite, then says "love is everything". That's what Jesus was all about. It's sad, really.

[razed1]

A wise man. Probably even the wisest to ever exist, once taught:
A baby cries when it comes into the world, because it realizes where it is.

thats a stupid quote

i can see what the person might be saying but theres other reasons that baby cries when born

also it the world of mankind that has become corrupt, not the "world"

[Anders Lindman]

Because belief systems don't mean squat.

The universe is the way it is. Sorry.

Yes, I agree, beliefs probably cannot do much, except give a more or a less accurate view of reality and that is of course important. I think David Icke's idea about infinite consciousness is correct, but I don't see how we can know that for certain. Maybe evolution will give more answers. I think that evolution is an accelerating process and that we now have reached a point in time where evolution is accelerating very quickly.

It's good to question beliefs and to test alternative beliefs. The correct beliefs will turn into knowing. The danger is that false or incomplete beliefs can turn into a false sense of knowing. So one must always question them.

[Anders Lindman]

i can see what the person might be saying but theres other reasons that baby cries when born


Bruce Lipton described how babies born in water can swim like a dolphin. They swim to the surface and take a breath and then swim back into the water again. No crying there. :)

[razed1]

not to mention the fact how the light is so intense in hospital rooms which is an unpleasant experience to anybody young or old, let alone a newborn

they even have a 'tradition' in the Christian country of usa of smacking the newborn on the bum whilst dangling it by its feet

what a nice msg to a new soul into this world, so its not the WORLD that is why the baby is crying

its stupid brainwashed ppl

[king]

A wise man. Probably even the wisest to ever exist, once taught:
A baby cries when it comes into the world, because it realizes where it is.

yes, and by judging at baby's expression after he stops crying (once the shock is over) he does know where he is.

there is that look on his face that is so telling...

[king]

not to mention the fact how the light is so intense in hospital rooms which is an unpleasant experience to anybody young or old, let alone a newborn

they even have a 'tradition' in the Christian country of usa of smacking the newborn on the bum whilst dangling it by its feet

what a nice msg to a new soul into this world, so its not the WORLD that is why the baby is crying

its stupid brainwashed ppl

that suppose to be helping baby with not getting an air bubble in lungs or something

[mariag]

Icke is paradoxical when he lambasts Christianity. He says religion is bullshite, then says "love is everything". That's what Jesus was all about. It's sad, really.
Infinite love in a total conciousness . Thats all there is to it...:p

[drael]

Could someone explain why new agers and hippies an object of anger?

Im pretty sure they can read traffic lights like everyone else.....

Confused.

New age is nothing but a hodge podge of ancient beleif systems, true a little over-simplified but fairly time-tested nonetheless.

Take the universal laws for example (law of attraction is one of them). This traces its way back to hermeticism and the ancient world of egypt and the greeks. Reincarnation and karma, obviously comes from the east.

Clearly new age was not created by anyone....

Does this descrimination involve mystics (like islamic mysticism for example) and pagans as well?

Why the beef?:confused:

[ablaze]

Icke is paradoxical when he lambasts Christianity. He says religion is bullshite, then says "love is everything". That's what Jesus was all about. It's sad, really.

There's plenty of hellfire, judgment, blood sacrifice and 'sinners repent or else' talk coming from Jesus, as well, mate. That's what the mass-mind control system of converting to Christianity is all about. "Salvation" from the wrath of God, thru believing in Jesus as "your Saviour". This is what Icke is "condemning".

Read the whole Christian propaganda literature, not just a few 'Sermon on the Mount' quotes.

http://www.evilbible.com

there's plent that goes against: Infinite Love is the Only Truth, everything else is Maya (Illusion), in the Bible and Abrahamic religions..

[mariag]

There's plenty of hellfire, judgment, blood sacrifice and 'sinners repent or else' talk coming from Jesus, as well, mate. That's what the mass-mind control system of converting to Christianity is all about. "Salvation" from the wrath of God, thru believing in Jesus as "your Saviour". This is what Icke is "condemning".

Read the whole Christian propaganda literature, not just a few 'Sermon on the Mount' quotes.

http://www.evilbible.com

there's plent that goes against: Infinite Love is the Only Truth, everything else is Maya (Illusion), in the Bible and Abrahamic religions..
I qoute " Eat my flesh and drink my blood and thou shall have eternal life " !;)

[pleasuredome]

would wish that he would shut up about his New Age theories since we know they were produced from Tavistock kind of places to purposefully confuse the proles.

here we go again, self-appointed spokesman for the forum. no need to think for yourself. "we" (baron) already knows what is what. if its anything to do with the occult, it will originate from freemasons or tavistock. if your not sure if something is occult, then just ask baron and he'll tell you. its great to know you can have peace of mind over these issues.

[strider]

That would have been a great question for David Icke's November Video-cast, but yesterday was the last day to submit questions. Next time, perhaps...

I asked a similar question but used bush and blair as examples. It might get answered and I'd be interested to know what DI thinks on the matter..

[abrilliantone]

The atheist finds himself in black empty void, and basically loses all sense of time. But eventually his mind starts to wander, and when he becomes aware of this he comes to the realization that despite having no body and no world to interact with, he still exists. And then it occurs to the atheist that if he's dead but he still exists, there might be a God after all. And then he notices that he's in a black empty void and there's no bright light anywhere to be seen. And then it occurs to him that since he never worshiped god or went to church, he's probably going to hell, and then he starts to panic and the void starts to fill with strange sounds. This scares the crap out of the atheist and before you know it, he's being tortured by demons.

brilliant answer mate :) We create our own reality sooo wherever it is you think your going when you die. That is where you'll end up at.

[eternal_spirit]

here we go again, self-appointed spokesman for the forum. no need to think for yourself. "we" (baron) already knows what is what. if its anything to do with the occult, it will originate from freemasons or tavistock. if your not sure if something is occult, then just ask baron and he'll tell you. its great to know you can have peace of mind over these issues.

..............

If you do some research, you'd know what the Baron is saying.

[eternal_spirit]

Having read David Ickes last 4 books and found them interesting and informative I have spotted an apparent paradox with belief,illusion and infinite conciousness.For example,when a committed Christian dies according to his illussiory Christian belief system,he may well experience or meet Jesus in the spiritworld dimension of The Matrix.Likewise Muslims,Hindus and other religious people may experience icons of their particular belief system.The paradox is the contradiction between an athiest when he dies,his illussiory belief system,(that conciousness ceases to exist with physical death) and that we are all infinite conciousness.How can the athiest survive physical death when his belief system does not allow this ?

...................

Okay, I read this many years ago by a Buddhist., T.Lobsang. Rampa.
When the shock of the soul leaving the body has sunk in and the one with out any religous faith, or the one who doesn't believe in an afterlife. Finds themselves stuck in darkness ( void etc ) Eventually he will realise there is something to life after death of the physical body.

Only then will the soul find it's way to the spirit world. Call it heaven, Nirvana, it's all the same place. Another Buddhist quote " All paths lead the same way home" Which means...No matter what religion etc, when we die we all go to the same place.

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

thats a stupid quote

i can see what the person might be saying but theres other reasons that baby cries when born

also it the world of mankind that has become corrupt, not the "world"

What right do you have to say it's stupid?

Are you saying that a baby, a fresh new soul here(or possibly here again) isn't aware?

[eternal_spirit]

A wise man. Probably even the wisest to ever exist, once taught:
A baby cries when it comes into the world, because it realizes where it is.

....................

It's an ancient Buddhist belief. To do with reincarnation. See, the soul of the child remembers being here before in a previous life ( incarnation ) But only remembers for a brief moment that he's here again, then the memory is lost. The soul has come from a better place, and is upset, shocked at being reborn as a tiny baby yet again.

Can you imagine, being in perfect condition an adult in the spirit world. Then born again, grabbed by the feet and spanked on the arse by the doctor, or midwife lol. How undignified.
And to top it all off another lifetime stuck in a human body, with an almost impossible life plan and karma to play out yet again.

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

....................

It's an ancient Buddhist belief. To do with reincarnation. See, the soul of the child remembers being here before in a previous life ( incarnation ) But only remembers for a brief moment that he's here again, then the memory is lost. The soul has come from a better place, and is upset, shocked at being reborn as a tiny baby yet again.

Can you imagine, being in perfect condition an adult in the spirit world. Then born again, grabbed by the feet and spanked on the arse by the doctor, or midwife lol. How undignified.
And to top it all off another lifetime stuck in a human body, with an almost impossible life plan and karma to play out yet again.

:cool:

[pleasuredome]

..............

If you do some research, you'd know what the Baron is saying.

of course, 'the baron' as you call him, with all his research knows more than myself who have only had a meagre 'NWO education'. its just strange how he never demonstrates most things he claims to be factual. he just claims it to be true as if it never needs to challenged at all.

in the past 7 years of research i've done i must have missed something pretty significant. i would presume you've done your research for you to endorse wild claims of 'tavistock kind of places' influencing david's theories. im sure you would be able to point me in the right direction as to the evidence that tavistock created 'new age' beliefs. i mean, here was me thinking that most of these 'new age' beliefs and theories were centuries old.

'new age' imo, is meaningless. its diferent things to different people. now, if you were talking about certain groups or people using 'new age' beliefs as a means to use and control small groups of people, yes i could go along with that. and has 'new age' been used as an influence to change society like every other type of belief system in the past century? then yes of course, i'd go along with that. however, it makes no sense to say that just because a theory or belief thats labelled as 'new age' then it must be something deceptive. if you think for yourself that it is, then great, good for you, but i dont need people preaching to me or talking on behalf of me or others as to what is right or wrong, or what is deceptive or not.

[chris]

The first time I saw a type of avatar was when I was meditating and I found that I was looking at a mirror but the mirror was all static like on analogue televisions. Then I saw a multiarmed woman's many arms elegantly moving up and down infront of the mirror. This was very hindu and I have never even gave hinduism much thought until then...

I guess peoples beliefs are not just forged in one lifetime but the memories remains in their subconsious.

[bigus_dickus]

Having read David Ickes last 4 books and found them interesting and informative I have spotted an apparent paradox with belief,illusion and infinite conciousness.For example,when a committed Christian dies according to his illussiory Christian belief system,he may well experience or meet Jesus in the spiritworld dimension of The Matrix.Likewise Muslims,Hindus and other religious people may experience icons of their particular belief system.

even if a christian dies and meets jesus and a muslim dies and meets muhammad, why would they stop there? i mean, yes OK, they die, they meet J or M and then what? do they stay there and stare at them eternally, or is there more to meet? they may meet their dead relatives and dead people that they knew and that they can think about and remember. but is that it? why the hell would i want to talk to Jesus and dead people for ever?

suppose that they meet God too. well, God is something that can't be seen, experienced and conceived, God is something that can only be. Jesus has never described the Father in terms that a simple human can understand or imagine, so meeting him in terms of gesture and communication is rather impossible. unless you think that Jesus is God, the father, hence you meet Jesus, you meet him and that's it. and then you can go and do whatever you want or something.

eventually, there would be many many more to meet and much more to know and see and experience, that the journey would never end and you would never meet God. it's actually quite impossible for someone to meet him.

so that would again put religious and atheists at the same place. but there is another thing too. atheists may think that there is nothing after the moment of death, but that's not the only thing that they think and believe. imagine that you are sleeping and all of a sudden you wake up and everywhere is dark, you can see nothing but empty blackness, and you think you are dead. if you decide that you are dead, you may think that there is nothing there because you are dead, but then you are going to think of something else.

anyway, i think that these things are far fetched and depend on beliefs. no one really knows and no one will know until we do.

[eternal_spirit]

for the past 7 years of research i've done i must have missed something pretty significant. i would presume you've done your research for you to endorse wild claims of 'tavistock kind of places' influencing david's theories. im sure you would be able to point me in the right direction as to the evidence that tavistock created 'new age' beliefs. i mean, here was me thinking that most of these 'new age' beliefs and theories were centuries old.

'new age' imo, is meaningless. its diferent things to different people. now, if you were talking about certain groups or people using 'new age' beliefs as a means to use and control small groups of people, yes i could go along with that. and has 'new age' been used as an influence to change society like every other type of belief system in the past century? then yes of course, i'd go along with that. however, it makes no sense to say that just because a theory or belief thats labelled as 'new age' then it must be something deceptive. if you think for yourself that it is, then great, good for you, but i dont need people preaching to me or talking on behalf of me or others as to what is right or wrong, or what is deceptive or not.
............


Okay, it's no easy to find the right texts to prove which comes from Tavistock, or created by the Masons, or secret society networks.( It's not something they want you to know ) There are threads around the forum, I'll try dig some out and post a few links later.

Channeling is a good example of someone's mind being manipulated. They think the channelings are from aliens, spirits, angels demons etc. When the source is in fact from man made machines which can project voices and or visions. Some say they have the technology to have a two way conversation, from the targeted individuals mind to the man controlling the machines, like a kind of synthetic telepathy.

Meditation and raising kundalini, may well be an open door way to allow possession by machines, especially if the victim is micro/nano-chipped.

How do you discern between a true spiritual experience, visions, communication with spirits. And man made devices which could give a person the same experience? You can see my dilema?

Add to this, are we to believe that spirits communicated religious books, Bible, Vedas etc etc. Or are these so called ancient texts merley inventions of modern man, say less than a few hundered years old? Did they have machines that could beam in messages to people's minds hundreds/thousands of years ago? Or hypnotic suggestions? ( A stage hypnotist or ventriloquist may have the ability to throw their voice and make it appear that it's coming from another source. So, maybe not so strange that the people recieving the channelings would have been in a cave, near a stream, out in the wilderness, in a temple, a grove etc. This would give the ( voice thrower ) many oppurtunities.

There are stories that nuclear technology was available way back in time and may well of been the end of Atlantis or some kind of scientific Golden age of mankind. So we don't know what advanced sciences they had.

Yes, well you decide what's right for you Pleasuredome.

[holly_ocean]

A wise man. Probably even the wisest to ever exist, once taught:
A baby cries when it comes into the world, because it realizes where it is.

my second, third and fourth babies did not cry at all when they arrived. They were born in my home

[eternal_spirit]

Madame Blavatsky, Crowley, Annie Bessant, Alice Bailey. All channelers and played a huge role bringing in the teachings of the New Age beliefs. Find out about the Theosophical Societies. All of these people where funded and promoted by High Masons.

[pleasuredome]

............

Channeling is a good example of someone's mind being manipulated. They think the channelings are from aliens, spirits, angels demons etc. When the source is in fact from man made machines which can project voices and or visions. Some say they have the technology to have a two way conversation, from the targeted individuals mind to the man controlling the machines, like a kind of synthetic telepathy.

Meditation and raising kundalini, may well be an open door way to allow possession by machines, especially if the victim is micro/nano-chipped.

How do you discern between a true spiritual experience, visions, communication with spirits. And man made devices which could give a person the same experience? You can see my dilema?

Add to this, are we to believe that spirits communicated religious books, Bible, Vedas etc etc. Or are these so called ancient texts merley inventions of modern man, say less than a few hundered years old? Did they have machines that could beam in messages to people's minds hundreds/thousands of years ago? Or hypnotic suggestions? ( A stage hypnotist or ventriloquist may have the ability to throw their voice and make it appear that it's coming from another source. So, maybe not so strange that the people recieving the channelings would have been in a cave, near a stream, out in the wilderness, in a temple, a grove etc. This would give the ( voice thrower ) many oppurtunities.

There are stories that nuclear technology was available way back in time and may well of been the end of Atlantis or some kind of scientific Golden age of mankind. So we don't know what advanced sciences they had.

Yes, well you decide what's right for you Pleasuredome.



channeling, meditation, drugs, religion, tv, computers, mobile phones, medication, food additives, electromagnetic smog, drinking water additives on and on and on. all these things could be opening us up to all manor of influences making you see life in many different ways. life is subjective. you dont know if the way you or i see life is really by our choice or not. we just go with what we feel is right. its up to ourselves to determine what is right for us and not for others. some people seem to be so concerned about what others think about a particular person or subject just because they have some fear that those people are being deceived. is it that they have that fear though, or are they just egotistical prats?

[tejas]

Very good. I don't think there is an Icke answer for that but then a lot of people support Icke for his position regarding the NWO and would wish that he would shut up about his New Age theories since we know they were produced from Tavistock kind of places to purposefully confuse the proles. I expect you have already come across the one about traffic lights. Hippy A's reality says the traffic lights are green, then there is Hippy B on the other road of the crossroads who also in his reality thinks the traffic lights are green. So what happens next, do they drive through each other or what?

Why dont you actually do some research into NDEs and then you will actually have a valid opinion.

The atheist finds himself in black empty void, and basically loses all sense of time. But eventually his mind starts to wander, and when he becomes aware of this he comes to the realization that despite having no body and no world to interact with, he still exists. And then it occurs to the atheist that if he's dead but he still exists, there might be a God after all. And then he notices that he's in a black empty void and there's no bright light anywhere to be seen. And then it occurs to him that since he never worshiped god or went to church, he's probably going to hell, and then he starts to panic and the void starts to fill with strange sounds. This scares the crap out of the atheist and before you know it, he's being tortured by demons.

This is completely correct. Most NDEs of atheists involve existing in some sort of void, but realising that they still exist and then everything happens.

[tejas]

There's plenty of hellfire, judgment, blood sacrifice and 'sinners repent or else' talk coming from Jesus, as well, mate. That's what the mass-mind control system of converting to Christianity is all about. "Salvation" from the wrath of God, thru believing in Jesus as "your Saviour". This is what Icke is "condemning".

Read the whole Christian propaganda literature, not just a few 'Sermon on the Mount' quotes.

http://www.evilbible.com

there's plent that goes against: Infinite Love is the Only Truth, everything else is Maya (Illusion), in the Bible and Abrahamic religions..

Exactly!