We need to stop this "support our troops" b*llshit

[vienna]

I get tired of hearing the same old mantra "you may not support the war, but you have to support the troops"

bullshit! we have to make a stand no matter how socially uncomfortable it is to actively NOT support the troops

If you care enough about the youths indoctrinated and brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing by volunteering into taking a wage to go over there and fight an illegal war then we have to show them our disgust.

Alot of the troops are there because of the public support rather than any personal opinions they have about the war.

The powers that be know this only too well. And they appropriated this instinct in the public to support them.

Yet if we truely cared for the lives of these people putting on the uniform and more importantly for the thousands of innocents who have no choice in Iraq and Afghanistan then we have to show them our digust for their own good.

Each soldier has to ultimately take responsibility for their own actions. If they sincerely believe the bullshit lines they are fed that they are fighting for 'freedom' and 'the war of terror' then we need to educate them. And supporting them is only going to reinforce this absurd belief they have that they are 'protecting the homeland'. By showing our digust and lack of support they would question their own motives more and without the support behind them may even rebel.

I'll support the troops when they have the sense not to go over there and fight

[chillwill]

I used to Blindly support the troops. But lately Ive been seeing alot of documentaries and news stories about troops, and groups of troops who admit to killing innocent civilians and some even enjoying it.

I don't know if I'm ready to write them all off and say to hell with em, but I'm definitely not just going to look the other way anymore.

I suppose its like every other group in life. You have some good and you have some bad.

[vienna]

I used to Blindly support the troops. But lately Ive been seeing alot of documentaries and news stories about troops, and groups of troops who admit to killing innocent civilians and some even enjoying it.

I don't know if I'm ready to write them all off and say to hell with em, but I'm definitely not just going to look the other way anymore.

I suppose its like every other group in life. You have some good and you have some bad.


Im not saying abuse them and I'm not saying they're bad either

I'm just saying we have to stop supporting them, alot of them have taken this to be a reason to go over there and fight. No doubt a fair percentage actually disagree with the war , but they think because of the huge public support they have an obligation to be there.

We have to counter this by showing them we actively do not support them. I'm not saying hate them. I'm saying don't glorify this obscene bullshit war by showing them we agree with their decidson to sign up.

Imagine if there was a social stigma with signing up. Imagine if associated with putting on a uniform and accepting the wage was the disgust of thinking about the innocent lives wasted and maimed. We need to counter the huge cultural propaganda that it is 'honourable' to fight for this f*cking digusting war

[gestaltdude]

A line from an episodes of NCIS has always stuck in my mind whenever i hear this.

A beaurocrat ask Gibbs if he supports the war, to which Gibbs replies he supports the people fighting the war. To me this says he knows that the war is bogus, but he still supports the people sent over to do the fighting.

the problem is that Support our troops has pressganged by the media to mean support the war. they know most people are against the war itself, so they're using support our troops to guilt people into doing whatever they (the media) want them to believe. Like when they called the legislation introduced after 9/11 the Partiot Act. They did this so that on one would dare disagree with passing it, as it would have been unpartiotic in a time of great national pride.

In the end its all just mind-numbing propoganda. They're going to keep doing it whether people believe it or not, just like in 1984 when they change the news to fit the politics.

[dan duchaine]

They are just people paid to kill people.

I have no idea why anyone would support this.

[infinategood]

This is a good point.

Keep in mind- SADLY...Most who join the military do so out of financial need and then are basically EXTREMELY brainwashed. This is what military does- they break you- isolate you- feed you food and bullshit- give you an instant "family" and then you come out part of a crazy cult.

The unlucky ones get PTSD so bad and then the GOV'T who threw them into war turns their back on them and leaves them feeling guilty, ashamed, battered, alone and such. Crazy times we live in.

War is a money machine!

[vienna]

This is a good point.

Keep in mind- SADLY...Most who join the military do so out of financial need and then are basically EXTREMELY brainwashed. This is what military does- they break you- isolate you- feed you food and bullshit- give you an instant "family" and then you come out part of a crazy cult.

The unlucky ones get PTSD so bad and then the GOV'T who threw them into war turns their back on them and leaves them feeling guilty, ashamed, battered, alone and such. Crazy times we live in.

War is a money machine!


exactly! and the public support just reinforces this brainwashing! It's why we need to show them the public is not backing them up, only then would they analyse what they're doing and question their own motives, even take respinsibility for their actions. The worst f*cking nightmare of the powers that be. Imagine that, a soldier who take responsibility for his own actions.

It's why they attach such social stigma to not supporting the troops to it in the media. because they know if the public no longer supported the troops and showed it, this f*cking war would end tomorrow through troops refusing to fight

alot of them are so brainwashed to the extent that when they leave the army they're lost, a good percentage of homeless are ex service men. Even seeing how the MOD treats returning maimed soldiers is not enough to wake them up.

[infinategood]

The problem is (one of them) that people from ghettos and low socioeconomic classes who feel hopeless and helpless see the military as a way to get a free education and willingly will SELL THEIRSELVES to the gov't (which is what you do if you join the military). Literally you sign your life away for X amount of years.

War is also a killing machine...a disgusting one. The human race cuts off its nose despite its face on a daily basis. To think war=peace is fucking insane. We kill them- they kill us- nobody values life- its a viscious cycle. :(

[fallenfaith]

They are just people paid to kill people.

I have no idea why anyone would support this.

Totally agree with this post!

[jiffy]

What is absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood.

~Aldous Huxley

[infinategood]

What is absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood.

~Aldous Huxley

Very concise!

[vienna]

What is absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood.

~Aldous Huxley

great quote

and that's why the media control, social stigma, brainwashing and propaganda are vital i.e.

1. make them believe they're fighting for a greater good, the end justifies the means, so what if a couple thousand innocent women and kids inevitably get f*cked, it's to give the majority freedom!

2. demonise the enemy, even people fighting for the simple fact there's a foreign invader on their soil they want to get rid of. make them believe they're a threat to the homeland, and they're out there to protect little Jonny back home from these evil goat herding poor bogey men.

3. Create a culture of support among the public so even if the soldier doubts the above reasons they feel obligated to do it and are praised by the public to do it. Even heroised and idolised on their return.

With the wealth of information out there exposing this war there's f*ck all excuse for anyone willingly signing up, especially here in the UK.

I've seen too many pictures and read too many strories of dead Afghani and Iraqi kids to feel any f*cking social obligation or pressure to maintain the pretence to support these people

if they won't wake the f*ck up the public has to do it for them by giving them a good kick up the arse by showing our disgust

[diamondgeezer]

I used to Blindly support the troops. But lately Ive been seeing alot of documentaries and news stories about troops, and groups of troops who admit to killing innocent civilians and some even enjoying it.

That kind of thing seems to be more prevalent amongst US soldiers than British soldiers for some reason.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being anti-american here or anything like that..just telling it how it is. Perhaps British soldiers believe that they are there to help in places like Iraq more than their American counterparts do.

[subl1minal]

They are just people paid to kill people.

I have no idea why anyone would support this.

Same here, I don't know why anyone would support that troops at all. Why? They're trying to save people from the very people that pay their wage packet!?!? it's insanity.

I used to Blindly support the troops. But lately Ive been seeing alot of documentaries and news stories about troops, and groups of troops who admit to killing innocent civilians and some even enjoying it.

That kind of thing seems to be more prevalent amongst US soldiers than British soldiers for some reason.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being anti-american here or anything like that..just telling it how it is. Perhaps British soldiers believe that they are there to help in places like Iraq more than their American counterparts do.

Probably because the popular culture in America teaches ''YEAH KILL THOSE DAMN TERRORISTS!''

You know with 24, Call of Duty and all the movies that are pro-war and pro-killing anything that moves. It's the same in the UK but most of the US hit shows aren't the next best thing since sliced bread, it's all about Big Brother and X Factor, the harmless crap.

[brett]

I attended the Interview with David Icke and Dr. T Simoncini at the Priory Bay Hotel on the Isle of Wight yesterday.

Great talk, met David (he signed Human Race Get off Your Knees), and I had a photo taken with him.

However, "down the road" the local Methodist Church had a Help for Heroes fund raiser, and as I was coming back to my hotel, the Bloody Church was Packed. Couldn't believe it.

[lizzy]

exactly! and the public support just reinforces this brainwashing! It's why we need to show them the public is not backing them up, only then would they analyse what they're doing and question their own motives, even take respinsibility for their actions. The worst f*cking nightmare of the powers that be. Imagine that, a soldier who take responsibility for his own actions.

It's why they attach such social stigma to not supporting the troops to it in the media. because they know if the public no longer supported the troops and showed it, this f*cking war would end tomorrow through troops refusing to fight

alot of them are so brainwashed to the extent that when they leave the army they're lost, a good percentage of homeless are ex service men. Even seeing how the MOD treats returning maimed soldiers is not enough to wake them up.
hi vienna........
It would make it harder to enlist for sure but as infinategood says putting food on the table (even if you come home with no more ability to walk than one) is part of the ecomonic disaster the power elite have created to push fodder into the machine and these days as sublimal says the msm branwashing and vid games have produced morons ready to kill........

the only "industry' left in the ussa is war and once that is over , so is America........TOTALLY used up and DONE.

[ellis_deatrip]

Next time you see some troops, or even one standing alone, try throwing a raw egg at them and screaming,"BABY KILLER"!!!
That should help your cause.
peace.

[thetonic]

A line from an episodes of NCIS has always stuck in my mind whenever i hear this.

A beaurocrat ask Gibbs if he supports the war, to which Gibbs replies he supports the people fighting the war. To me this says he knows that the war is bogus, but he still supports the people sent over to do the fighting.

the problem is that Support our troops has pressganged by the media to mean support the war. they know most people are against the war itself, so they're using support our troops to guilt people into doing whatever they (the media) want them to believe. Like when they called the legislation introduced after 9/11 the Partiot Act. They did this so that on one would dare disagree with passing it, as it would have been unpartiotic in a time of great national pride.

In the end its all just mind-numbing propoganda. They're going to keep doing it whether people believe it or not, just like in 1984 when they change the news to fit the politics.

Spot on .

When they name something like 'the patriot act', its often in line with their everything is backwards, upside down, reversed beliefs that correlate within the deeper teachings of the satanic brotherhoods.

Essentially theyre havin a laugh at us for swallowing their poisoned pills because they know how indoctrinated they have made us. They have conditioned us to see black as white and right as wrong. Part of me thinks they have every right to enslave us because people are just too stupid / indoctrinated / have too many rigid beliefs and cant be brought around unless they endure some sort of psychological or physical torture by tpb themselves

[largejack]

Im not saying abuse them and I'm not saying they're bad either

I'm just saying we have to stop supporting them, alot of them have taken this to be a reason to go over there and fight. No doubt a fair percentage actually disagree with the war , but they think because of the huge public support they have an obligation to be there.

We have to counter this by showing them we actively do not support them. I'm not saying hate them. I'm saying don't glorify this obscene bullshit war by showing them we agree with their decidson to sign up.

Imagine if there was a social stigma with signing up. Imagine if associated with putting on a uniform and accepting the wage was the disgust of thinking about the innocent lives wasted and maimed. We need to counter the huge cultural propaganda that it is 'honourable' to fight for this f*cking digusting war

I'm with you 150 % on this, unfortunately the common sense you are speaking is normally drowned out by "you're a hippy, you're a commie, you just hate your country!" before you even have time to explain what you mean. Cognitive dissonance is a difficult hurdle to overcome I'm afraid and it won't come easily to the concrete minds. I would suggest that most who know the wars are illegal, still rally to their military for some reason. It must be some kind of tribal thing, I don't know?

[ragnarok]

The societies we live in are already indoctrinated in the idea that war is a necessary evil and those who wage it are behaving on the whole in a heroic fashion. As long as we are content to let violence on such a level be glorified and deemed as the best way to settle fiercely contested disputes, this planet's population is never going to progress psychologically.

[mark1963]

If you do not support the war then logically you could never support those conducting that war.

To support the troops and not the war means you are showing major signs of schizophrenia.

[largejack]

If you do not support the war then logically you could never support those conducting that war.

To support the troops and not the war means you are showing major signs of schizophrenia.

Then most of the population is showing major signs of schizophrenia. I remember the Daily Mirror at the onset of the Iraq War, it campaigned zealously against the war, and then when war was declared it feverishly ordered its readers to support the war. You couldn't make up the psychology?

[cpfc12]

I don't think all soldiers are bad, i don't believe the daily propaganda however, that they are meant to be angels of some kind. If your a young bloke in this society, joining up seems to be an easy exciting option, much better than having some dead end job, or going to uni and paying off student debts for the rest of your life. In terms of the characters of those joining up, i can only talk from experience of friends and people i know who joined up. Some of them where bullies and not nice characters, but others where decent nice people who wanted to get their adrenline fix, not necessarily kill people.
Oh well, we are a military complex nation pretty much, and i don't think we should support that, and keep up with the heroship, but i certainly won't look down on a squaddie

[dan duchaine]

If you havnt read the book 'on killing' i suggest you get a copy of amazon and have a read of it.

[clint_giles]

Great Post !!

i agree 100%

war is for the idiotic.
and its not needed AT ALL!

unfortunately the soldiers of today in every country are so brainwashed in every sense of the word,they are all beyond repair,unless their own brains can come out of it on their own,and many have over the years,much credit is due to those who have...tres tres bien !

anyways i have a sticker on the back of my truck tailgate
that says "question war" in a big yellow question mark,it's a knock off of the stupid ass bumper sticker ribbons that say "support our troops" that have plague the land over here in north america,its like the pink ribbon for cancer.
here-- http://www.questionwar.com/
i recommend anyone and everyone thats cares to get one and display it proudly !


when i see them i laugh !
so much ignorance today ,its sad !

[eurofighter]

I completley agree with the OP

[bazil brazeel]

Have to say all the posts have been excellent.
After seeing the fisrt 10 mins of maimed and dismembered little afghani children, who were heroin addicts because of all the truama they experiance on a daily basis.
would change the publics attitude,but these reports are rare,compaired to the charity drives for the poor basterds injured.then disposed of by the gov who were responsible for the shit in the first place.
but like someone said " war is money" and the usless soldier bites at the profits.

i mean the soldier is only any good if he can kill or take an active role.

[entrangermercenary]

Allways been war...allways will be war...its the way on mankind..sry to shit on your parade as they say :p

http://community.africanloft.com/_Kenyan-tribesmen-Fighting-with-arrows-/photo/1099805/4392.html?enlarge=true

[vikiv88]

Got some soldier friends in afghanistan... all of them are there for either a) bettering themselves and learning new skills, b) easy to get the job or c) theyre crazy in the head or fed up with their lives.

None of them really care about this country... I mean its our own governments that have turned this country into a shit hole over the last few decades... if we wanna make things better, we deal with them first, not the taliban over the other side of the world.

[humanspirit]

I thought the country had run out of money,so the government are cutting back on everything in the uk harming its own people.
Yet the government can find money to go to war with some far off country and get a load of squaddies killed for some bullshit reason.
Whats up doesnt the government like its own?:eek:

[mark1963]

Then most of the population is showing major signs of schizophrenia. I remember the Daily Mirror at the onset of the Iraq War, it campaigned zealously against the war, and then when war was declared it feverishly ordered its readers to support the war. You couldn't make up the psychology?

You have it spot on largejack - yes they are. Because it has been mind controlled into them.

We need to show them the truth of it.

[fina18]

The 'Support our troops' propaganda knows no limits:

As a disabled person, I was sent a copy of the recent government consultation on Blue {Disabled parking} Badge reform.
On the first page, was a question which asked if we agreed that Forces Personnel in receipt of disability pensions should be automatically entitled to a badge?

Our disability group's official response was, that if ex/Forces people are disabled and eligible, they should apply in the usual way like everyone else.
{The 'note-taker' added my point that is was all pro-war propaganda in the first place onto our group's Minutes} :)

[2503]

"The pioneers of a warless world are the [youth] who refuse military service." -
Einstein

[rreeve]

I get tired of hearing the same old mantra "you may not support the war, but you have to support the troops"

bullshit! we have to make a stand no matter how socially uncomfortable it is to actively NOT support the troops

If you care enough about the youths indoctrinated and brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing by volunteering into taking a wage to go over there and fight an illegal war then we have to show them our disgust.

Alot of the troops are there because of the public support rather than any personal opinions they have about the war.

The powers that be know this only too well. And they appropriated this instinct in the public to support them.

Yet if we truely cared for the lives of these people putting on the uniform and more importantly for the thousands of innocents who have no choice in Iraq and Afghanistan then we have to show them our digust for their own good.

Each soldier has to ultimately take responsibility for their own actions. If they sincerely believe the bullshit lines they are fed that they are fighting for 'freedom' and 'the war of terror' then we need to educate them. And supporting them is only going to reinforce this absurd belief they have that they are 'protecting the homeland'. By showing our digust and lack of support they would question their own motives more and without the support behind them may even rebel.

I'll support the troops when they have the sense not to go over there and fight

Well said, I totally agree.

Plus, if many people started hating our troops for allowing themselves to be pawns, this might discourage others who sign up thinking they'll be branded a hero.

I take my hat off to the troops who have come back speaking the truth and telling others what it's really like and what their really doing. These guys now have a responsibility to stop people going to war for their cowardice country.

Also, I find it disgusting that people like Bush, Obama, Blair, Brown or Cameron etc etc can start a war yet never fight it themselves. This should be international law. If a country goes to war, it's leader must fight on the front line until it is over. This is the ONLY thing that will ever bring about global peace. When the leaders making the decisions have to directly experience the consequences of their decisions. If this was the case, America and the UK would be the most peacefull countries on the planet.

[brett]

Well put. Reminds me of Churchill's speech about Fighting on the Beaches, etc..

Where was HE? Sipping Champagne and Eating Lobster in an Underground Bunker, no doubt..

Idiots - ALL of them!!

[hadabusa]

support them with a fly home ticket.

[bradstone]

If this was the case, America and the UK would be the most peacefull countries on the planet.

You're still buying into this Anglo-American crap.

There are many nations in Afghanistan, because of Nato involvement. May I also remind you that many British Muslims voted for Blair while a good proportion of English people numbering in the tens of millions, did not vote for Blair.

It's a bit more complex than just blaming the UK and the USA for everything. It just makes matters worse tbh. When our economies tumble, they could all sorts of criminal groups that will use this 'Anglo-American' shit as an excuse to rob and kill innocent people.

[hadabusa]

You're still buying into this Anglo-American crap.

There are many nations in Afghanistan, because of Nato involvement. May I also remind you that many British Muslims voted for Blair while a good proportion of English people numbering in the tens of millions, did not vote for Blair.

It's a bit more complex than just blaming the UK and the USA for everything. It just makes matters worse tbh. When our economies tumble, they could all sorts of criminal groups that will use this 'Anglo-American' shit as an excuse to rob and kill innocent people.

yesyes, but usa is notorious on pissing on nato mandates.

[rreeve]

You're still buying into this Anglo-American crap.

There are many nations in Afghanistan, because of Nato involvement. May I also remind you that many British Muslims voted for Blair while a good proportion of English people numbering in the tens of millions, did not vote for Blair.

It's a bit more complex than just blaming the UK and the USA for everything. It just makes matters worse tbh. When our economies tumble, they could all sorts of criminal groups that will use this 'Anglo-American' shit as an excuse to rob and kill innocent people.


Total CRAP
The US and UK are the TWO leading forces, the two LEADING agressors. Yes other countries are involved too but the US and the UK are taking the lead. Yes and MANY muslims didn't vote for Blair and many british did. Your post was totally UN-informative trying to use clever words to twist things to make your point. If any muslim knew what was on the cards NOBODY would have voted for him. Don't even get me started on the BS intelligence on WMD's. The USA started this war, the UK followed and other countries followed the UK and the US. America as usual are the agressors and the UK have been relegated to wannabe agressors.

Save your crap for someone else because I see straight through it. Ta!

[rashhead]

Alot of the troops are there because of the public support rather than any personal opinions they have about the war

Sorry mate don't totally agree, as cpfc12 states...

I don't think all soldiers are bad... If your a young bloke in this society, joining up seems to be an easy exciting option, much better than having some dead end job, or going to uni and paying off student debts for the rest of your life. In terms of the characters of those joining up, i can only talk from experience of friends and people i know who joined up. Some of them where bullies and not nice characters, but others where decent nice people who wanted to get their adrenline fix, not necessarily kill people

You cannot blame young mis-directed guys (or gals) from believing the bullshit OR wanting something better => joining up

It's equally the same with terrorist organisations (forceable commitment) :eek:

You cannot subsequently blame these young people (army / terrorists) for doing something they have been fed or trained to do...

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Thanks for moving this thread out the way, seeing as how (YOU ONLY THINK) it only concerns war (NUMBSKULL)

[primordialman]

If the troops have enough desensitised gaul to kill and maime women and children in a third world nation then i suggest they would have an equal level of guts/balls to mutiny and otherthrow their officers if they had the balls for their personal conviction against their orders especially if they are being ordered by their commanding officer to engage in war crimes.

The fact they cant and wont just proves they all for it and ENJOY the state sanctioned killing and murder they have personally committed they deserve no respect as they are war criminals and should be brought to account as any civilian is!.

[spolier]

I get tired of hearing the same old mantra "you may not support the war, but you have to support the troops"

bullshit! we have to make a stand no matter how socially uncomfortable it is to actively NOT support the troops

If you care enough about the youths indoctrinated and brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing by volunteering into taking a wage to go over there and fight an illegal war then we have to show them our disgust.

Alot of the troops are there because of the public support rather than any personal opinions they have about the war.

The powers that be know this only too well. And they appropriated this instinct in the public to support them.

Yet if we truely cared for the lives of these people putting on the uniform and more importantly for the thousands of innocents who have no choice in Iraq and Afghanistan then we have to show them our digust for their own good.

Each soldier has to ultimately take responsibility for their own actions. If they sincerely believe the bullshit lines they are fed that they are fighting for 'freedom' and 'the war of terror' then we need to educate them. And supporting them is only going to reinforce this absurd belief they have that they are 'protecting the homeland'. By showing our digust and lack of support they would question their own motives more and without the support behind them may even rebel.

I'll support the troops when they have the sense not to go over there and fight

how refreshing to read sense on this subject.

There have been a few beggars out begging with bowls for money for the ''heroes/war criminals''', didant seem to be many people giving anything to them.

i think that its just more black propaganda, showing the odd peasant and family in support of the troops, therby generating an illusion of mass support for the troops.

[vienna]

I've just cut and pasted my opening post on this thread and e-mailed it into the Roger Phillips radio phone in show during a debate about the troops in Afghan

He just read it out in its entirety. Top bloke. I'd previously phoned in a few months ago and he allowed me to read out a quote from Tragedy and Hope on air.

It should be on listen again for today 23.11.10, the show started at 12pm to 2pm and he read it out at 1.32pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p001d7n8

I'd recommend posters to ring in as it reaches a wide audience and has a very fair and understanding host

[starschildren]

Used to always say, "I support the troops, not the wars... I hope every member of the armies makes it home, on both sides not just one" --- But I am beginning to hate even them, not their fault they were brainwashed into it, but I am becoming less compassinate towards them. If they want to pull that trigger, it's their choice, they aren't made to do it, they make the choice. Can't support them any longer, brainwashed or not, they are playing for the other side now, and I wont pretend to like their choices.

[fallenfaith]

I get tired of hearing the same old mantra "you may not support the war, but you have to support the troops"

bullshit! we have to make a stand no matter how socially uncomfortable it is to actively NOT support the troops

If you care enough about the youths indoctrinated and brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing by volunteering into taking a wage to go over there and fight an illegal war then we have to show them our disgust.

Alot of the troops are there because of the public support rather than any personal opinions they have about the war.

The powers that be know this only too well. And they appropriated this instinct in the public to support them.

Yet if we truely cared for the lives of these people putting on the uniform and more importantly for the thousands of innocents who have no choice in Iraq and Afghanistan then we have to show them our digust for their own good.

Each soldier has to ultimately take responsibility for their own actions. If they sincerely believe the bullshit lines they are fed that they are fighting for 'freedom' and 'the war of terror' then we need to educate them. And supporting them is only going to reinforce this absurd belief they have that they are 'protecting the homeland'. By showing our digust and lack of support they would question their own motives more and without the support behind them may even rebel.

I'll support the troops when they have the sense not to go over there and fight

I agree 100%

Also - I've never been one for worrying about how socially uncomfortable my views are :D

~Peace~

[legendary]

but guys.. you seem to be forgetting one major fact. WE'RE IN A WAR ON TERROR!!!!!!! obviously the logical solution is to westernize the middle east...

only joking, i'm not that much of an idiot, but here's some food for thought:

report on europol annual study on terrorism.. findings and political rhetoric appear to be very different..
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/

lowkey - political rapper - who's the real terrorists some very interesting facts and statistics in here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU

to be honest it worries me very much that Israel are the people our countries are allies with in the middle east and who's occupation of palestinian land for over half a century has gone widely unnoticed and their attrocities ignored whilst America pledge them 10 billion in funding in the middle of an economic crisis to further occupy Palestinian land by building illegal settlements and murdering and repressing the native population.. whilst america and the UK change laws so that Israeli ministers can't be prosecuted for war crimes when visiting our countries and people claim you are an anti-semite if you declare Israel to be an evil state let's take a look at exactly what our good old soldier boys are getting up to saving us from the terrorists...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/21/israeli-soldiers-human-shield-avoid-jail

at least wikileaks reports of what America got up to in Iraq and Afghanistan made it onto the tv which basically dictates how most westerners perceive the world...

[bluechip]

Very well said all. Just in case I'm the only one here old enough to remember the same situation during the viet nam days, here is a must see video that really hits the nail on the head. The song is "Universal Soldier", written by a peace loving woman during the sixties.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLzUNDaF00U

And for how the inspiration to put her thoughts in the song came to be;
Buffy Sainte-Marie - Universal Soldier - YouTube

[wiesman02]

They are just people paid to kill people.

I have no idea why anyone would support this.


blunt and to the point. I agree. I don't support the troops. I dont support the war. i have empathy for the troops being sent over to fight and kill because they havent really stopped to think about the destructive nature of their actions, or they are just blind / indifferent to them.

This whole support your troops ideal is a virus that needs to be stopped. how are we to one day be a peaceful race if we support wars and the bloodshed of others ?

[corsair]

I get tired of hearing the same old mantra "you may not support the war, but you have to support the troops"

bullshit! we have to make a stand no matter how socially uncomfortable it is to actively NOT support the troops.

The soldiers actively serving in armed conflict are no more responsible for said conflict than you are. The majority of them are hardly out of their teen years, yet they are doing the hardest job in the world by serving their country in the most selfless manner possible. You, however, have chose to spit on them because you disagree with the government that sent them there. That's some logic you are using there. What's next? Are you going to try to convince me to quit my job because my employer likely contributed to the current government's campaign funds?

People like you simply do not deserve the freedoms that our grandfathers fought two World Wars to win for us. Sadly, it is those same freedoms (won by soldiers, nonetheless) that are allowing you to come on this forum and spout your bullshit today. Talk about a state of denial...

[rob_n86]

The soldiers actively serving in armed conflict are no more responsible for said conflict than you are. The majority of them are hardly out of their teen years, yet they are doing the hardest job in the world by serving their country in the most selfless manner possible. You, however, have chose to spit on them because you disagree with the government that sent them there. That's some logic you are using there. What's next? Are you going to try to convince me to quit my job because my employer likely contributed to the current government's campaign funds?

People like you simply do not deserve the freedoms that our grandfathers fought two World Wars to win for us. Sadly, it is those same freedoms (won by soldiers, nonetheless) that are allowing you to come on this forum and spout your bullshit today. Talk about a state of denial...

These 2 wars of course were also intended such as this one. The freedom everyone was fighting for then is as much of an illusion as it is now. The very beliefs that these wars and conflicts were/are fought over the past 100 years are illusory in nature. The concept of problem, reaction, solution, I should not need to explain how it relates to wars. The point of this entire thread is to identify that the entire concept of wars is false to begin with. The entire point is to see its all a game and not to play it! Its not about who deserves freedom and who doesent, its not about name calling and accusing people of being in denial.

[decode reality]

Two things can't occupy the same space, therefore as I'm against the war on terror, there's no way I'm going to cheer for the soldiers. I don't believe they should be jeered either. It's just not my war.

[eustacekidd]

It must be one hell of a view from up on your high horses. Unfortunately, those of us in the real world who have friends and family in the military, well, we just cant bring ourselves to celebrate their deaths die just for your smug sense of self righteousness.

[son_of_parrot]

The Soldiers are just doing what they believe is right at this moment in time.

As everyone on here been "awaken" all their lives or was there a time when you believed all the shite the Government & MSM force fed you?

Did you deserve to be maimed or slaughtered then because you were still asleep?

I dont back the war but i don't wish any harm on our Soldiers or those they may harm, innocent or not.

[rob_n86]

I'm not some smug whistle blower, Ignorant to the facts of war. I was in the military for 6 years, I know what the lifestyle is like and how it affects ones close. I have my opinions because I witnessed the stupidity of it all myself. I'm not here to insult anyone or their opinion. If anyone does not understand our point of view, then it is what it is, you have your opinion. No need to directly insult us

[decode reality]

The Soldiers are just doing what they believe is right at this moment in time.

As everyone on here been "awaken" all their lives or was there a time when you believed all the shite the Government & MSM force fed you?

Did you deserve to be maimed or slaughtered then because you were still asleep?

I dont back the war but i don't wish any harm on our Soldiers or those they may harm, innocent or not.

That's very much how I feel.

[spidersteve]

What is absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood.

~Aldous Huxley

Stop it now and bring them home, shouldnt even be there! Its a dirty stinking war, started by dirty stinking liars. If this isnt a stark warning for the future then I dont know what we can expect in the coming decades...One day the homeless will just start evaporating and only a handfull of people will even notice and most of those wont even care. I don't know many military personnel but when I do I always ask why did you join up? The answer is quite simple " I want to kill someone and not face prison" So its legal murder for some, conscequences will not be faced back in blighty and only the conscience suffers if at all. Others see it as a job and they just have to do as they are told, which in this case is to kill men, women and children so we can all buy petrol. Theres a bigger picture I'm sure and I'm almost positive many of them would rather be at home with their wives and children than stuck in Afghanistan fighting something they dont really understand.

[eustacekidd]

I don't know many military personnel but when I do I always ask why did you join up? The answer is quite simple " I want to kill someone and not face prison"

Do you actually expect people to believe that?

[bazil brazeel]

Monty Python - The Meaning of War (Tigers) - YouTube

The idea of legal murder is parodied above.

[spidersteve]

Do you actually expect people to believe that?

I've had a young man work for me a few years back and he was in the royal artillery so i asked why he joined up.
I quote
"coz i wanna kill pakis" So what am I to think with that answer?

He has since served time in jail.

Second guy actually taught me to get my flt licence, he served in NI and bosnia so I asked him too.
I quote
" I want to shoot someone and feel what its like to be shot" Which pretty much equates to kill and get away with it.

He is still teaching.

He was invalided out of the forces with gunshot wounds so he said. My question to you is why on earth would I make something like that up?

[wimwauters]

I think the best way to support our troops is to bring them home and keep them here. It's up to us: anyone fancy a sit-in on the taxi-ways of military airbases? Being bullet and radiation-proof is a requirement :(

[consciousness]

I get tired of hearing the same old mantra "you may not support the war, but you have to support the troops"

bullshit! we have to make a stand no matter how socially uncomfortable it is to actively NOT support the troops

If you care enough about the youths indoctrinated and brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing by volunteering into taking a wage to go over there and fight an illegal war then we have to show them our disgust.

Alot of the troops are there because of the public support rather than any personal opinions they have about the war.

The powers that be know this only too well. And they appropriated this instinct in the public to support them.

Yet if we truely cared for the lives of these people putting on the uniform and more importantly for the thousands of innocents who have no choice in Iraq and Afghanistan then we have to show them our digust for their own good.

Each soldier has to ultimately take responsibility for their own actions. If they sincerely believe the bullshit lines they are fed that they are fighting for 'freedom' and 'the war of terror' then we need to educate them. And supporting them is only going to reinforce this absurd belief they have that they are 'protecting the homeland'. By showing our digust and lack of support they would question their own motives more and without the support behind them may even rebel.

I'll support the troops when they have the sense not to go over there and fight

Good post and good thread.
Supporting the troops is essentially supporting the NWO. The troops are unconsciously also NWO troops. The top brass mostly know what they are fighting for but most of the troops don't have a clue.

[entrangermercenary]

I've had a young man work for me a few years back and he was in the royal artillery so i asked why he joined up.
I quote
"coz i wanna kill pakis" So what am I to think with that answer?

He has since served time in jail.

Second guy actually taught me to get my flt licence, he served in NI and bosnia so I asked him too.
I quote
" I want to shoot someone and feel what its like to be shot" Which pretty much equates to kill and get away with it.

He is still teaching.

He was invalided out of the forces with gunshot wounds so he said. My question to you is why on earth would I make something like that up?

What a load of shit :rolleyes:

[eustacekidd]

My question to you is why on earth would I make something like that up?

It's guess just a bit hard to get my head around the 2 guys you knew both ended up being psychopaths. That kind of thing is monitored during basic, it's possible that one or two slip through the cracks, but having worked alongside military personnel I've had the opposite experience, men and women from all walks of life who joined for a variety of reasons, from people who couldn't find employment anywhere else, people putting themselves through college, and some just becasue they believe it's their duty. I've met some right arseholes alright, bullies etc. but never anyone who enjoyed killing or thought it was fun.

[entrangermercenary]

It's guess just a bit hard to get my head around the 2 guys you knew both ended up being psychopaths. That kind of thing is monitored during basic, it's possible that one or two slip through the cracks, but having worked alongside military personnel I've had the opposite experience, men and women from all walks of life who joined for a variety of reasons, from people who couldn't find employment anywhere else, people putting themselves through college, and some just becasue they believe it's their duty. I've met some right arseholes alright, bullies etc. but never anyone who enjoyed killing or thought it was fun.

Well that is a good post :) and as I see you are from Ireland even more kudos to you.

There are nutcases in every walk of life..ive met 2....one who is now dead...killed by the police in an armed robbery ...and the other...fuck knows...he killed a women in Africa..just 1...but it was covered up...but we all knew about it.

People join for several reasons...some to get a trade..cook, comms.engineer,mechanic etc

Some to test themselves..ie infantry,paras,marines,special forces..Young men have always wanted to fight...I was no different :p

I never joined to kill pakis, or wogs :rolleyes: just commies :D :p

c'est la vie...if every one was the same what a fucking boring world eh !!

[spidersteve]

Well that is a good post :) and as I see you are from Ireland even more kudos to you.

There are nutcases in every walk of life..ive met 2....one who is now dead...killed by the police in an armed robbery ...and the other...fuck knows...he killed a women in Africa..just 1...but it was covered up...but we all knew about it.

People join for several reasons...some to get a trade..cook, comms.engineer,mechanic etc

Some to test themselves..ie infantry,paras,marines,special forces..Young men have always wanted to fight...I was no different :p

I never joined to kill pakis, or wogs :rolleyes: just commies :D :p

c'est la vie...if every one was the same what a fucking boring world eh !!

Ok, well if thats the case then those two guys are talking shit! I think it may also be a little naive to think that everyone who joins the forces does so to make a positive diference to the world. I'm trying to think of their names but theres several snipers and serial killers all with military history. I understand what you're saying, Hence the guy from the royal engineers no longer serves because they kicked him out. I agree also, If we were all the same it'd be boring. I didnt mean a slight against the forces either, Both sides of my family fought and died in both world wars and I understand fully the sacrifice they made...I have enough respect! However to some and it is a few, whether they still serve or not they are still trained killers and joined up to commit legal murder.

[entrangermercenary]

Ok, well if thats the case then those two guys are talking shit! I think it may also be a little naive to think that everyone who joins the forces does so to make a positive diference to the world. I'm trying to think of their names but theres several snipers and serial killers all with military history. I understand what you're saying, Hence the guy from the royal engineers no longer serves because they kicked him out. I agree also, If we were all the same it'd be boring. I didnt mean a slight against the forces either, Both sides of my family fought and died in both world wars and I understand fully the sacrifice they made...I have enough respect! However to some and it is a few, whether they still serve or not they are still trained killers and joined up to commit legal murder.

OK OK...yes A FEW nutters will slip through the net..same in any walk of life ;)

My trade was sniper...along with a few other trades ie mountain warfare....how many civvies have I killed :rolleyes:

None :)

If somebody has a weapon in hand they cease to become civilian but an armed combatant in a conflict !! Whether in there country or your country of origin..be there intentions good for there community or bad for yours !!!

How many have I killed since leaving the military errrr maybe a couple of thousand :cool: :p

None

So im sure you can show me a list of serial killers that are ex military snipers or special forces....how long shall I wait :)

[dude111]

I get tired of hearing the same old mantra "you may not support the war, but you have to support the troops"I agree totally!

You think i support those assholes treating people the way they do??

FUCK THAT!!

[spidersteve]

OK OK...yes A FEW nutters will slip through the net..same in any walk of life ;)

My trade was sniper...along with a few other trades ie mountain warfare....how many civvies have I killed :rolleyes:

None :)

If somebody has a weapon in hand they cease to become civilian but an armed combatant in a conflict !! Whether in there country or your country of origin..be there intentions good for there community or bad for yours !!!

How many have I killed since leaving the military errrr maybe a couple of thousand :cool: :p

None

So im sure you can show me a list of serial killers that are ex military snipers or special forces....how long shall I wait :)

About 5 minutes :)
John allen muhammed
Howard unruh (13 dead)
Timothy mcveigh (oklahoma bomber) (lots)
David berkowitz (son of sam)
Charles whitman (16 dead)
Arthur shawcross (12 dead)
Jeffrey dahlmer (loads, then ate them)

All military trained. Some decorated soldiers. Thats from just 5 minutes googled, I mean David berkowitz was a very high profile case as was Charles whitman (sniper) Mcveigh and Muhammed were both tank commanders. I'm having a little trouble identifying British serial killers and murderers with military training but I guess that this information will be harder to come by and might take me an hour or two to find.

[skaff]

A very interesting thread for me to read as i am still serving in the British Army.

I actually agree with much on here you may be surprised to hear. In years past i have been spat at in the face when in the UK in uniform and recently had people shake my hand. Both are ludicrous actions. To judge a man by the clothes he wears is no more crazy than judging by the colour of his skin.

As for supporting the troops, i think in the main i agree here too. If you are against a conflict then you shouldn't support the troops as if they are some kind of separate entity. Equally though you shouldn't condemn them as if they are the cause.

The topic of brainwashing is interesting and i feel is a little naive may i say. One aspect of miltary life is that often there isn't time to hold a debate on the right course of action. A decision is made, an order is issued and it is carried out. Often it is right, sometimes it is wrong, rarely but inevitably it is disastrous. However, delaying that decision would rarely be correct, sometimes wrong and often disastrous! Whilst there may be some in the military that are incapable of thinking for themselves that is far from the norm and please do not confuse following orders with brainwashing.

In my opinion people would consider us less brainwashed if the UK military became a home defence force only protecting our borders and answering to no NATO/UN/US mandate even though we would still train and act in the same way.

Finally, i cannot speak for the UK military but when i joined up i said that if i managed to stay in for 22 years without a medal i would be a happy man as it meant i hadn't been anywhere where i could be killed and therefore never see my family again but knew those were the risks i took. I didn't join to kill, to see the world, to protect the country or any other cliches. I joined because the country was in a bad way and, despite my qualifications finding a career path was difficult. The Army gave me that option and i have no regrets.

[dzijane]

Totally agree with this post!
I also totally agree, pitching human against human in a civilised world is beyond my comprehension and proves to me that this world is not how it was supposed to be. How any parent can wave a child off to war after all the emotional and all other investment in that child just fries my brain. The planet is in enough trouble and yet the elite intentionally make things worse everywhere.

[skaff]

I also totally agree, pitching human against human in a civilised world is beyond my comprehension and proves to me that this world is not how it was supposed to be. How any parent can wave a child off to war after all the emotional and all other investment in that child just fries my brain. The planet is in enough trouble and yet the elite intentionally make things worse everywhere.

I think parents were waving kids off to battle long before the birth of any 'elite'. Human against human is more natural than you are making it out to be. What is unnatural is doing it at the behest of a third party.

[primordialman]

I think parents were waving kids off to battle long before the birth of any 'elite'. Human against human is more natural than you are making it out to be. What is unnatural is doing it at the behest of a third party

Yes too true, its also amazing how many tory bred young women love a man in uniform not just military i mean cops whatever.
Seems humanity just has survivial of the fittest, killer instinct i mean aggression seems to really excite the modern mind thats why i dont believe in any of David Ickes One world of harmony shite because people just love to fight, hate, be tribal just like any other animal.
If humanity was suppose to be a more civil or higher species it has been bred out of us in the last thirty years many are f$%^ing psychos now not just in the military or prisons.

[knightofthegrail]

I tend to agree with the OP. The UK armed forces are a mercenary force, and they are not "ours" unless you identify with the UK State. The last time we had a decent idea about what an army was supposed to be, we took the p*ss out of it as "Dad's army". :rolleyes:

Yes too true, its also amazing how many tory bred young women love a man in uniform not just military i mean cops whatever.

Uniforms, in theory at least, are a sign of courage, service and responsibility....rather than just another me,me,me whining emo or wheelerdealer. They often arnt, in practice (although firemen may remain an honorable exception), but that doesnt change the ideal.

[primordialman]

Uniforms, in theory at least, are a sign of courage, service and responsibility....rather than just another me,me,me whining emo or wheelerdealer. They often arnt, in practice (although firemen may remain an honorable exception), but that doesnt change the ideal.
Yes I am well aware of all the old mores of the role civil services play in the mythology of the nation state. However thats just the problem the nation state just like religion ceases to be of importance or power as every day goes by.
Soon most civil services will privatised anyway they will simply be officially just other businesses. If you think just because a guy courts a uniform they are somehow little Gods then you really are foolish i suppose many must think those in uniform are Gods because so many in the civil services seem to be recruited from the Public Grammar school ranks or Mason families ofcause most torys believe these civil myths however the point is they are all tory myths, brainwashed into people from an early age especially strongly depending on what kind of school your educated in from childhood to adolescence.
Another reason tory women like to crawl to such men is simply because they really crave powerful men because they are so brainwashed by private colleges(public schools in the UK) that have never been liberated from male chauvanism which many tory women even in University seem to graple with the idea of leaving behind the idea of male chauvanism thats my experience with these kind of women!.

[corsair]

These 2 wars of course were also intended such as this one. The freedom everyone was fighting for then is as much of an illusion as it is now. The very beliefs that these wars and conflicts were/are fought over the past 100 years are illusory in nature. The concept of problem, reaction, solution, I should not need to explain how it relates to wars. The point of this entire thread is to identify that the entire concept of wars is false to begin with. The entire point is to see its all a game and not to play it! Its not about who deserves freedom and who doesent, its not about name calling and accusing people of being in denial.

So to be clear, you actually think that you would be exercising the freedom to go online and rail against the government today if our grandfathers had figured the threat of the Third Reich was "an illusion", did nothing and let Hitler take over the Western World? Sweet Jesus... Is 20th century history (specifically the years 1932 through 1945) even mandatory where you went to school? Or are you one of these types that seem to think Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Saddam Hussein were actually benevolent leaders looking out for the good of mankind, and that they were unfairly painted by evil western propaganda to make them merely seem like the murderous monsters history tells us they were?

[skaff]

I stand by my previous post. There are times when war isn't nexessary, i agree but i amconvinced that the belief that the modern miltary is a brainwashed illiterate band of empty headed drones would not be followed so much if we were a home defence force even though the training would be the same.

This means that the issue for me is more with perception that truth.

[primordialman]

So to be clear, you actually think that you would be exercising the freedom to go online and rail against the government today if our grandfathers had figured the threat of the Third Reich was "an illusion", did nothing and let Hitler take over the Western World? Sweet Jesus... Is 20th century history (specifically the years 1932 through 1945) even mandatory where you went to school? Or are you one of these types that seem to think Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Saddam Hussein were actually benevolent leaders looking out for the good of mankind, and that they were unfairly painted by evil western propaganda to make them merely seem like the murderous monsters history tells us they were?
All Politics and Wars are written by the victor first rule of both!
The Illuminists control both sides of the coin, it just depends on which side they decide to flip, then they use mass media,religion, education to do the rest!
As far as I am concerned only fools believe in nationalism or patriotism in this day& age and the civil bodies that constitute it. As neither truly exist, like i said earlier they are less & less important ideals to the plans of the Globalist elite as every day goes by!.

[primordialman]

I stand by my previous post. There are times when war isn't nexessary, i agree but i amconvinced that the belief that the modern miltary is a brainwashed illiterate band of empty headed drones would not be followed so much if we were a home defence force even though the training would be the same.

This means that the issue for me is more with perception that truth.

Some of the bravest and best soldiers that have done most of the grunt work in both ww1 &ww2 were drafted not volunteers atleast this was the case in the Aussie army in ww1&2 in ww2 it was actually militia forces(conscripts) which halted the Japanese in the Owen stanley not the regular AIF (regular army) my fathers family knew a veteran whom went MIA against the Japs in Owen stanleys in PNG in ww2.
The Official military history states this unit ran at the first sign of combat like cowards however the truth is Aussie generals, military had simply under equiped and trained these conscripts they screwed up. However the point is they were the unit that actually stopped the jap advance from invading Australia the regulars were not present as they had to be recalled from Nth Africa as part of Montgomerys forces.
In other armies the stories the same its often the conscripts which do the majority of the grunt work the volunteers and Special forces simply like to put themselves on pedestal as more elite troops, however conscripts have been just good fighters if not better and just as couragous when it comes down to the crunch.

[corsair]

All Politics and Wars are written by the victor first rule of both!
The Illuminists control both sides of the coin, it just depends on which side they decide to flip, then they use mass media,religion, education to do the rest!
As far as I am concerned only fools believe in nationalism or patriotism in this day& age and the civil bodies that constitute it. As neither truly exist, like i said earlier they are less & less important ideals to the plans of the Globalist elite as every day goes by!.

The question wasn't about patriotism or nationalism, it was about your foolish assertion that the men who fought against the Third Reich were wasting their time because there is no difference between the freedoms we enjoy to those today, and those that would have been provided to us under the swastika.

The fact that you completely avoided answering it and attempted to backpeddle through a stream of BS about the "Global Elite" shows me that you know your claims are completely incorrect, and you are likely throwing them out there for some form of pseudo-intellectual shock value.

We both know had Hitler conquered the Western World, anyone with such outlandish anti-government opinions as the ones you are posting would have been put on the first train to Auschwitz. The fact that has not happened to you yet under the current regime proves my original point that we owe those who fought a debt we would never be able to repay, and that them fighting, and ultimately winning the war, was 100% in our benefit.

[primordialman]

The question wasn't about patriotism or nationalism, it was about your foolish assertion that the men who fought against the Third Reich were wasting their time because there is no difference between the freedoms we enjoy to those today, and those that would have been provided to us under the swastika.



No actually i think you have me confused with the other poster! It was he/she that you were initially responding to.


The fact that you completely avoided answering it and attempted to backpeddle through a stream of BS about the "Global Elite" shows me that you know your claims are completely incorrect, and you are likely throwing them out there for some form of pseudo-intellectual shock value.

We both know had Hitler conquered the Western World, anyone with such outlandish anti-government opinions as the ones you are posting would have been put on the first train to Auschwitz. The fact that has not happened to you yet under the current regime proves my original point that we owe those who fought a debt we would never be able to repay, and that them fighting, and ultimately winning the war, was 100% in our benefit

Ok so i take it from your response here that your happy with NWO and thus the present status quo then one must ask the question why are you here?
If you think we live in freedom/democracy now thats just your opinion. Theres a saying "One mans heaven is anothers hell" I subscribe to that view so seems you should think about that aphorism, because frankly freedom is subjective. Democracy at least true democracy ceases to exist for me & many others here otherwise we wouldnt sit here commenting about the present state of the world, after all one should only post here if they have problem with it. In your case however seems your here just to shit stir, are you a shill troublemaker?
Even if you are free now freedoms you take for granted now, in future may get much less free if you are one of those that believe the world is heading for world government that is however if you dont, continue to live in your free delirium which is actually hell for others, infact your not a thinker so why not just follow your leaders into your grave!.

[primordialman]

The False Left Right Paradigm - From the Obama Deception - YouTube

You tools that believe in wars and civil service smoke this!. Really tired of dumb people that believe in false flags especially on conspiracy forum, where posters should know better, either learn to think outside the fucking box or dont respond to me as you are not worthy only those with brain need to respond in future corsair sorry pal you dont cut it next plse!.

[logos880]

The question wasn't about patriotism or nationalism, it was about your foolish assertion that the men who fought against the Third Reich were wasting their time because there is no difference between the freedoms we enjoy to those today, and those that would have been provided to us under the swastika.

What is interesting is the role that the corporations played in WWII:

Without a doubt, a key player in the cause of World War 2 was the powerful Adolf Hitler. But the major source of Hitler's power came from a chemical cartel called I.G. Farben, (the name is an abbreviation of the complete name: Interssen Gemeinschaft Farben.) The importance of I.G. Farben's support for the Socialist movement was pointed out in a book about the cartel, in which it is stated: "without I.G.'s immense production facilities, its far reaching research, varied technical experience and overall concentration of economic power, Germany would not have been in a position to start its aggressive war in September, 1939."1

http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-2/ww2-background.htm

During the planning of the invasion of Czechoslovakia and Poland, IG Farben cooperated closely with Nazi officials and directed which chemical plants should be secured and delivered to IG Farben.[1]

In 1941, an investigation exposed a "marriage" cartel between John D. Rockefeller's United States-based Standard Oil Co. and I.G. Farben.[13][14] (see[15] and[16]) It also brought new evidence concerning complex price and marketing agreements between DuPont, a major investor in and producer of leaded gasoline, United States Industrial Alcohol Company and their subsidiary, Cuba Distilling Co. The investigation was eventually dropped, like dozens of others in many different kinds of industries, due to the need to enlist industry support in the war effort. However, the top directors of many oil companies agreed to resign, and oil industry stocks in molasses companies were sold off as part of a compromise worked out.[17][18][19]

IG Farben held the patent for the pesticide Zyklon B (used in Holocaust gas chambers), and owned 42.2 percent (in shares) of Degesch (Deutsche Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung) which manufactured it. IG Farben also had managers in Degesch's Managing Committee. Of the 24 directors of IG Farben indicted in the so-called IG Farben Trial (1947–1948) before a U.S. military tribunal at the subsequent Nuremberg Trials, 13 were sentenced to prison terms between one and eight years. Some of those indicted in the trial were subsequently made leaders of the post-war companies that split off from IG Farben, including those who were sentenced at Nuremberg.

The fact that you completely avoided answering it and attempted to backpeddle through a stream of BS about the "Global Elite" shows me that you know your claims are completely incorrect, and you are likely throwing them out there for some form of pseudo-intellectual shock value.

We both know had Hitler conquered the Western World, anyone with such outlandish anti-government opinions as the ones you are posting would have been put on the first train to Auschwitz. The fact that has not happened to you yet under the current regime proves my original point that we owe those who fought a debt we would never be able to repay, and that them fighting, and ultimately winning the war, was 100% in our benefit.

The war was staged. Had it not been for pearl harbour, the US may not have even entered the war. The corporations have been playing both sides of every war and are the ultimate beneficiaries of these conflicts.

"War is peace."

[oiram]

I thought the country had run out of money,so the government are cutting back on everything in the uk harming its own people.
Yet the government can find money to go to war with some far off country and get a load of squaddies killed for some bullshit reason.
Whats up doesn't the government like its own?:eek:

Running out of money for there favored Game play of murdering for fun? .....
NO! NO! long, long, long way to go looking at there backup they stolen from all your usury taxes, anti Human laws, fees ...etc.

Appears you don't know yet your best friends real plans? .. they will not step down freely & easy that's a fact we all have to understand!
We are only bodies, slaves, invalid objects & number code "statistics" to there kind!

What do you think will $65 trillion do to all of Humanity if only used for murdering, terror, bribes & self-made, self-serving psychopathic Wars!

Most likely by know they will have $200 trillion in there disposal to get there way; creating & stealing money 24/7 every second of the day?

Would I be stamped arrogant in presuming they will use every single cent they have created from nothing & stolen to kill every single one of us; if they get the idea into there Sick psychopathic heads?

Money has to be rejected or blocked or replaced with something totally new very, very soon "even better now" if some like to survive..... Sounds bad well it is the reality we all facing if no action will be taken! IMO

In regards to the OP's thread topic I present my footer note which is clear & to the point with no add-ons needed!
Unless they oppose it, they will be blamed for it. If they defend it, they are part of it!


The Hidden History Of Money & New World Order Usury Secrets Revealed at last!
Ashley Mote (EU): "Mr President, I wish to draw your attention to the Global Security Fund, set up in the early 1990s
under the auspices of Jacob Rothschild. This is a Brussels-based fund and it is no ordinary fund: it does not trade, it is
not listed and it has a totally different purpose. It is being used for geopolitical engineering purposes, apparently under
the guidance of the intelligence services." "I have previously asked about the alleged involvement of the European Union's
own intelligence resources in the management of slush funds in offshore accounts, and I still await a reply. To that
question I now add another: what are the European Union"s connections to the Global Security Fund and what
relationship does it have with European Union institutions?"Recently, Ashley Mote of the European Union (EU) asked this
volatile question in a public EU meeting, a question never answered, as Mr. Mote, merely by asking this question, was
immediately scratched from the White House Christmas card list and placed on its top ten hit list. The Illuminati's cash
cow, grazing freely on the World wide pasture of greenbacks, isn't called "Elsie" but instead is called the Global Security
Fund, a name actually meaning in the secret cult's language Global Terrorist Fund. In simple terms, it's a gigantic illegal
trust fund, estimated by undercover overseas financial investigators at 65 trillion dollars, set-up for "Illuminati rainy days"
and established when it is desperately needed in a pinch for bribery, assassinations and sponsoring World wide terrorist
activities to divert attention from their banking mafia. Although the fund is cloaked in secrecy and made possible by the
Western civilization's Federal Reserve banking system, investigators trying to pry into the Illumnati's secret treasure trove
have uncovered some interesting facts.

Before looking at some of the startling information behind how the "Illuminati banksters" create money out
of thin air, ask why the 1968 Minnesota Trial Court's decision holding the Federal Reserve Act
unconstitutional and void and holding the National Banking Act unconstitutional and void was never appealed
or vacated? The answer is even the legal manipulators and corrupted high court judges can't get around this decision,
figuring it better to just let the case of the First National Bank of Montgomery v. Jerome Daly die in the cold Minnesota
snow along with Justice Martin V. Mahoney who was found suspiciously poisoned to death six months after he issued the
ruling that exposed the illegality of what has been called the Queen of England's illegal banking scam. This decision, which
is still good law, has the effect of declaring all private mortgages on real and personal property, and all U.S. and
State bonds held by the Federal Reserve, National and State Banks to void. According to legal scholars and Bill Drexler,
who worked on the case with Judge Mahoney, "This amounts to an emancipation of this nation from personal, national
and State debt purportedly owed to this banking system. Every True American owes it to himself/herself, to his or her
country, and to the people of the World for that matter, to study this decision very carefully and to understand it, for upon

The Hidden History Of Money & New World Order Usury Secrets Revealed at last! Page 407

Now almost 40 years later, the Illuminati banksters are still creating trillions out of thin air, keeping the American people
and the western World in bondage and what amounts to financial slavery. However, one man who may hold the key to
exposing much of the illegal banking fraud and recently released from a 20 year jail term, is former Russian and CIA
operative. Ambassador Leo Emil Wanta. Although unavailable for comment at the time of publication but according to
another European bank fraud investigator, Marco Saba, Wanta has been released "to active duty" and is holding 25 USD
trillion in foreign bank accounts and money that needs to the U.S. Treasury Department. "I am trying to help him to
accomplish this operation," said Saba Wednesday from his home in Milan, Italy. In a valiant attempt to get at the root of
the Illuminati's global slush fund, author Christopher Story's work shines a brilliant light on the Illuminati's shady and dark
financial underWorld. However, when the mainstream press in England and America were alerted about Story's findings,
management at a leading London newspaper had this to say about printing the financial expose: "We won't touch this
subject with a thousand-foot barge pole!" But Saba who is investigating the shady financial trail for the Observatory
of Organized Crime in Switzerland had this to say about his investigation as well as highlighting Story's findings: "In 1992,
the Illuminati orchestrated the raising of a targeted $27.5 trillion from at least 200 international institutions, in the
biggest, secretive private placement financing operation in World history. "The mainstream media unfortunately failed to
report this operation so the general public is ignorant of it. The aim was to provide finance for the imposition of the New
World Order, a.k.a., the New UnderWorld Order, for its use throughout the 21st century. "The euphemism for this
program is the "global security environment". The consequent monumental "Global Security Fund", which is managed in
Brussels, and is directed on behalf of the global Illuminati controller's by financial intelligence operatives, now disposes of
secret financial resources of approximately $65 trillion for this purpose, probably far more. "Equipped with such limitless
resources, the directors of the New UnderWorld Order have now amassed sufficient finance to bribe every leader, ruler,
policymaker, intelligence operative and political figure Worldwide, for the rest of this century, in pursuit of their aims. The
New UnderWorld Order addresses the greatest crisis the World has ever faced namely, the globalization of criminalism.
What this means is that governments, and the revolutionary New World Order cabal seeking global governance (or
control), are increasingly in the hands of criminal gangs and corrupt power cliques that hide behind formal government
positions. "Many of the main Illuminati figures on the World stage today are compromised or vulnerable to blackmail and
other "Black Ops" forms of control. During the giga-fund-raising operation, truly unbelievable sums of money were stolen,
mis-routed or misappropriated. Indeed, the ransacking and pillaging that took place was so colossal, and the impasse
while this was occurring so extended (in 1989-91), that the international banking and financial systems nearly collapsed.
Other funding resources resulting from creative financial warfare and scamming operations are hidden in accounts held by
offshore corporations controlled by international intelligence, which is extensively criminalized and thus increasingly
engaged in mafia-style global gangland warfare. "A brilliant light is focused by the Author into this contemporary universe
of darkness. Christopher Story's sensational new expose provides chapter and verse on the dark forces behind the New
UnderWorld Order, gives detailed financial audit trails showing where and how colossal sums have vanished, identifies the

http://www.archive.org/stream/TheHiddenHistoryOfMoneyFeudalOrderUsurySecrets/4469057_djvu.txt




My Personal notes:
Absolutely amazing Perfect again ..... I'm still in touch with whatever it is!.... To many times to just be coincidental.
Are my actions connected, related or synchronized with Symbolic number meanings?
My Posting No. 3427 = 16 .... what does it say Symbolically?
http://www.ridingthebeast.com/numbers/nu16.php
Properties of the number 16

Symbolism
Indicate the achievement of the material power.

Being considered as the "final" number of the emanation, it represents the Incarnation completed, according to Abellio.

According to R. Allendy, it represents "the role of the Karma 6 in the cosmic unit 10. This role consists in creating a current of evolution (1 + 6 = 7) but towards two opposite directions, so that, by itself, 16 even number, is unable to choose." As a product of 2 x 8, it is the positive evolution leading to the karmic liberation, or the negative evolution leading to an increasingly tight sequence in the cycles of nature.

For J. Boehme, this number represents "the Abyss", or the hell, opposed to the nirvana.

According to Creusot, it symbolizes the construction and the destruction.

According to Guy Tarade, it is the number of Lucifer.
http://www.ridingthebeast.com/numbers/nu16.php

[skaff]

Some of the bravest and best soldiers that have done most of the grunt work in both ww1 &ww2 were drafted not volunteers atleast this was the case in the Aussie army in ww1&2 in ww2 it was actually militia forces(conscripts) which halted the Japanese in the Owen stanley not the regular AIF (regular army) my fathers family knew a veteran whom went MIA against the Japs in Owen stanleys in PNG in ww2.
The Official military history states this unit ran at the first sign of combat like cowards however the truth is Aussie generals, military had simply under equiped and trained these conscripts they screwed up. However the point is they were the unit that actually stopped the jap advance from invading Australia the regulars were not present as they had to be recalled from Nth Africa as part of Montgomerys forces.
In other armies the stories the same its often the conscripts which do the majority of the grunt work the volunteers and Special forces simply like to put themselves on pedestal as more elite troops, however conscripts have been just good fighters if not better and just as couragous when it comes down to the crunch.

I completely agree that in many conflicts, conscripts have often matched regulars, not just in bravery, but also intuition, tactics and skill as well over time.

However the part of your post that i have highlighted i completely disagree with. I do not know a single soldier that has placed themselves on an ego stand because they are volunteers. Not one.

[primordialman]

However the part of your post that i have highlighted i completely disagree with. I do not know a single soldier that has placed themselves on an ego stand because they are volunteers. Not one.
Really why is that?
Exclusive closed institutions like Police force or Army are simply a reflection to some extent of society outside of them why would there not be two classes of army.Afterall the army is all about hieararchy and taking orders without question. The officer elite is always the cream of soceities elite. In the case of the ADF Australain army elitism is encoruaged as we dont even have conscripts(National Service) the last time they had this here was the 1960s. So a Nation with completely regular and voluntary army tends to breed elitism and anomie from civilian society even in the lower ranks.
As for me personally i think conscription or national serivce is good idea for all adolescent youth i certainly wouldnt have hesitated if I had been called up in my school years as there are some very worthwile things anyone can learn from military service e.g discipline a good solution for the unemployed as well etc..although i was not given such a choice attending an ordinary co ed Australian state school in a nation where there is no compulsory conscription.

Joining the army on voluntary basis in Aus just isnt the same they put one through all kind usless entry tests e.g like doing engineering levels maths for someone that simply wishes to be rifleman or supply operator is beyond absurd like any good secret society they also seem to be an organisation with plenty of secrets, which never gave me the honest reason for my rejection when i attempted to join on a voluntary basis.
As for any of you whom cant understand my anti civil service attitude you should able to tell why. I have modestly offered my serivces to my nation and got it thrown back at my face I consider the military in my country to be complete ingrates. Australia is joke anyway seriously needs to stop being the US lap dog in the pacific.

[skaff]

Really why is that?
Exclusive closed institutions like Police force or Army are simply a reflection to some extent of society outside of them why would there not be two classes of army.Afterall the army is all about hieararchy and taking orders without question. The officer elite is always the cream of soceities elite.

I don't no if the Australian Army is different but in the british Army the days of the Old Etonians taking all the officer positions and orders being barked with plums in mouth are long gone. Many new officers are from a great variety of backgrounds.

Also, my point was that i have never met a British soldier who thinks himself 'special' because he volunteered against another who was either a conscript or Territorial.

The taking orders without question isn't an example of elitism. I explained wht that happens in an earlier post on this thread. If you can't find it i will link it for you but it was only a page or two ago.

I am sorry to hear that you feel knocked back. I don't think it is right for anyone to feel like that, regardless of the institution involved.

[skaff]

As for national service, that is one that the MPs always talk about but who will do the work? Oh, that's right, me! When not jumping through all the other hoops they hold out for me of course! :D

[slaying the illuminati]

fuck your and all troops

[nickos]

we need to stop this 'support our troops' b@llsh*t!

COMPLETELY agree with you!the army mentality of various nations has destroyed all chance of a 'one world nation'.leaders who get what THEY want by flexing their armies!

why should we 'support our troops'? i would have thought that ALL of these troops are perpetuating inequality amongst various world regions.

and how on earth can a soldier epect any sort of afterlife? they kill and worse!

[skaff]

fuck your and all troops

Thanks for your balanced point of view!

[skaff]

we need to stop this 'support our troops' b@llsh*t!

COMPLETELY agree with you!the army mentality of various nations has destroyed all chance of a 'one world nation'.leaders who get what THEY want by flexing their armies!

why should we 'support our troops'? i would have thought that ALL of these troops are perpetuating inequality amongst various world regions.

and how on earth can a soldier epect any sort of afterlife? they kill and worse!

Regardless of occupation, I think that anyone who lives their life has to eventually find themselves alone and looking into a mirror at themselves. I have yet to meet anyone who doesn't hold some shame or regret in their life. If there is a Theistic God then surely he would judge a man on his thoughts and not his actions.

I think you have a point on the perpetuation of inequality but casting that net over ALL troops is too far i fear. There may be a bigger agenda at hand when huge conflicts are fought but at an individual level there are often actions of great courage and compassion carried out by those acting as a pawn in a bigger game. To then cast the scorn aimed at a government onto a single soldier is unfair imho.

To take all those points in one incident, i know of one soldier in Bosnia who died trying defending a Bosnian family of 2 grandparents, 2 parents and 5 children/grandchildren from Serbian attackers (the youngest only a toddler). It cost him his life and the family were killed but i believe that any Theistic God would look kindly on him.

Am i biased? Probably, but i try not to be! I don't subscribe to the brainwashing of a nation into waving flags in honour of people they do not know but equally to 'fuck all troops' is equally nonsensical don't you agree?

[doctor what]

I'm a member of the Oregon National Guard and I have served a one-year tour in Afghanistan. I have always strongly opposed the wars the US is involved in in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think we should have never gone in and that we should leave immediately. When I was given my orders to go on deployment it was a matter of whether or not I would honor my oath. I could have tried to make the argument that it was an unconstitutional war and therefore an invalid order, but I don't believe the war is strictly unconstitutional, simply morally wrong.

I believe that being a soldier and protecting the weak is an honorable profession. I also believe that every country has a right to have an army and defend itself. So I honor my fellow soldiers and place the blame for our wars on the politicians and the voters who support them.

I can understand the argument being made here that saying "support the troops" can become indirect support for the war. Yet most of the people I know saying support the troops also oppose the war, and in my mind I correlate supporting the troops with ending the war.

[loveisthelaw]

I'm a member of the Oregon National Guard and I have served a one-year tour in Afghanistan. I have always strongly opposed the wars the US is involved in in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think we should have never gone in and that we should leave immediately. When I was given my orders to go on deployment it was a matter of whether or not I would honor my oath. I could have tried to make the argument that it was an unconstitutional war and therefore an invalid order, but I don't believe the war is strictly unconstitutional, simply morally wrong.

I believe that being a soldier and protecting the weak is an honorable profession. I also believe that every country has a right to have an army and defend itself. So I honor my fellow soldiers and place the blame for our wars on the politicians and the voters who support them.

I can understand the argument being made here that saying "support the troops" can become indirect support for the war. Yet most of the people I know saying support the troops also oppose the war, and in my mind I correlate supporting the troops with ending the war.

If the soldiers said fuck off to the government, there would be no war, even if the government wanted it. As such soldiers must take responsibility, sorry. They have the option of going to jail or running away, but rather, they go along with it and give lip service.

I feel sorry for them having to be in such situations, but they chose to go to the army which results in, what do you know, fighting in war or supporting it.

[ragnarok]

My belief is that nobody should be allowed to join the military and take part in combat unless they are 30+ and have no familial responsibilities.

[dude111]

If the soldiers said fuck off to the government, there would be no war, even if the government wanted it.Yes but in order for this to work EVERYONE WOULD NEED TO SAY THIS!!

It would be an excellent start though!

[loveisthelaw]

Yes but in order for this to work EVERYONE WOULD NEED TO SAY THIS!!

It would be an excellent start though!

Which tells you that a lot of people want to go to war and play counter strike in real life, which tells you a lot about the conciousness of the country in which they live.

MMm, money, or kill, money or kill... money!

But indeed, it would be the start, and the finish.

[marpat]

My belief is that nobody should be allowed to join the military and take part in combat unless they are 30+ and have no familial responsibilities.

lol, you mean when they are starting to get too old

In WWI people lied about their age because they were too young to fight, yet they still volunteered

[logos880]

lol, you mean when they are starting to get too old

30 is the new 18?? :D

In WWI people lied about their age because they were too young to fight, yet they still volunteered

What's your point?

edit: I liked your last avatar better! :p

[ankh]

... http://freemasontube.com/video/upload/item/photos/16/GGOXGRW2GN3R/Women-

[ragnarok]

Here's another woman's opinion.

10,000 Maniacs - Gun Shy

10000 Maniacs ''Gun shy''.wmv - YouTube

I don't mean to argue, they've made a decent boy of you
and I don't mean to spoil your homecoming my baby brother Jude,
and I don't mean to hurt you by saying this again,
they're so good at making soldiers but they're not so good... at making men

[ragnarok]

lol, you mean when they are starting to get too old

I'd love to see you tell Randy Couture and Dan Henderson they are "too old" because they are past 40. Hilarity would ensue, that'd be for sure. :D

[entrangermercenary]

we need to stop this 'support our troops' b@llsh*t!

COMPLETELY agree with you!the army mentality of various nations has destroyed all chance of a 'one world nation'.leaders who get what THEY want by flexing their armies!

why should we 'support our troops'? i would have thought that ALL of these troops are perpetuating inequality amongst various world regions.

and how on earth can a soldier epect any sort of afterlife? they kill and worse!

TBH I dont give a fuck about an afterlife....Ill deal with the here and now !!!

Some twat like you wont be judging me if there is one tho;)

Oh and what is the " they kill and worse ! " errr what is that about ?? :confused:

[fingersync]

I have read all the posts yet, but whenever there is a war it is surprising to me the lack of personal commitment by the leaders who have lot's to say when sending other, less important, folk off to die and murder. In Africa you find very few of the elite's offspring on the front line, but at home their mouths are going and telling the rest what a good thing it is to end your life so that they and their children can be safe and see tomorrow.
To end all wars make it law that the people at the top make personal blood sacrifices to the cause.

[iamcanadian0869]

I've always had that opinion....that if I support the troops, I support the war as well. :rolleyes: I think they go "hand in hand" .

[pacmanpacks]

The elite know the public is fully aware that they are being lied to, and this is where the controlled opposition aka COINTELPRO comes in: They force this lie on everyone on purpose on TV and Talk Radio that "Ok ok, the war in Iraq was a lie, but so what: We were going to take the oil anyway, one way or the other". Please everyone face the FACTS, the HORRIBLE TRUTH: The Jews under world war 2 was NOT the target of the extermination programs, not at all, that was also just a controlled lie of the elite who did create and did win ww2: EVERYONE was a target, also the people doing the killings and the guards at the death camps because in the REAL world this was, have always been and still is today about EUGENICS aka global genocide to "Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature (http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm)" and since this is a global dictatorship they want, which is a 100% documented and admitted fact, we are in fact talking about more than 90% of the entire world population will have to die - If the UN aka The global dictatorship get their way with us that is !!! And what does this have to do with Oil in places such as Afghanistan and Iraq? IT IS THE SAME PRIVATELY OWNED SYSTEM OF CONTROLLED MILITARY OPPOSITION !!! Bottom line: It doesn't matter if the elite say WW2 was about killing Jews or the war in Iraq is just about the oil, because both is (like basically everything else we are told in the public domain) nothing but one big dirty Nazi fascist war promoting LIE !!! GLOBAL'ISM = NAZI'ISM - WAR = GLOBAL GENOCIDE - Coming VERY soon to a town near YOU !!!

[kennybhoy67]

"Soldiers Are Not Heroes" was the name given to quite a few Facebook pages and on similar sites pages that were oppossed to the hero worship that's encouraged by the likes of The Sun.

Where the fuck did they all go?

[dude111]

Facebook probably deleted them!!

[known skeptic]

"Soldiers Are Not Heroes" was the name given to quite a few Facebook pages and on similar sites pages that were oppossed to the hero worship that's encouraged by the likes of The Sun.

Where the fuck did they all go?

Good question. The main hits I got when searching for them are "REMOVE the group 'Soldiers are not heroes' ". :rolleyes: The one has over 800,000 likes.

[driscol]

I happen to know the people some of you are calling murders. Supporting the troops does not mean supporting the war.

Saying you shouldn't support the troops is the same ignorant "fuck the police" mentality that leads to uncoordinated human behavior.

Ever hear the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds"?

I would love to see you people try to survive in a country with no police and no military. Have lots of fun with that.

[ragnarok]

I happen to know the people some of you are calling murders. Supporting the troops does not mean supporting the war.
If these people know they aren't murderers, they needn't be concerned about what people they don't know are thinking. Ffs, they are risking death and disability everyday, so surely a few unkind words aren't going to break their wee hearts?

Saying you shouldn't support the troops is the same ignorant "fuck the police" mentality that leads to uncoordinated human behavior.

Ever hear the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds"?
Actually, civilian working efforts feed the military, they don't feed us. We are also the the ones who can speak out against them getting sent on senseless campaigns, when soldiers aren't allowed to speak out. Not that much attention is usually paid.

I would love to see you people try to survive in a country with no police and no military. Have lots of fun with that.
Only a fool would suggest that at this point in human development. While we need them though, we want them accountable.

[driscol]

If these people know they aren't murderers, they needn't be concerned about what people they don't know are thinking. Ffs, they are risking death and disability everyday, so surely a few unkind words aren't going to break their wee hearts?

Actually, civilian working efforts feed the military, they don't feed us. We are also the the ones who can speak out against them getting sent on senseless campaigns, when soldiers aren't allowed to speak out. Not that much attention is usually paid.

Only a fool would suggest that at this point in human development. While we need them though, we want them accountable.

So in short, they do nothing for us but we need them (unless you thought "hand that feeds" was literal, in that case I am very sorry for whatever illness you have) and you want them to go over and die and kill to protect you if necessary but you want them to be called murders and offered no support for the trauma they experience when they get back.

Don't blame the warrior, blame the war mongers. It's not young men going off to die that we need to blame, it's the rich old men sending them.

We are not talking about "hurt feelings" here we are talking about human lives. They may be in a pointless war but not every war will be pointless and they are not in a position to pick and choose once they join the military.

[coco]

This is a good point.

Keep in mind- SADLY...Most who join the military do so out of financial need and then are basically EXTREMELY brainwashed. This is what military does- they break you- isolate you- feed you food and bullshit- give you an instant "family" and then you come out part of a crazy cult.

The unlucky ones get PTSD so bad and then the GOV'T who threw them into war turns their back on them and leaves them feeling guilty, ashamed, battered, alone and such. Crazy times we live in.

War is a money machine!


Yes, yes, and yes. My father joined in the mid-70's when the economy was crap and he was tired of living in the car, a small Toyota (he stuck his mother with me).

As strange as it may seem, my father is against the empirical war machine, but he had to feed himself and a kid, and the promise of free health insurance (until the 90's) and a pension seemed to fit the survival bill.

The insights he gained during his service only fortify my views about American imperialism and its crimes.

[driscol]

Yes, yes, and yes. My father joined in the mid-70's when the economy was crap and he was tired of living in the car, a small Toyota (he stuck his mother with me).

As strange as it may seem, my father is against the empirical war machine, but he had to feed himself and a kid, and the promise of free health insurance (until the 90's) and a pension seemed to fit the survival bill.

The insights he gained during his service only fortify my views about American imperialism and its crimes.It's scary how effective the brainwashing and hidden propaganda can be. I listened to "citizen soldier" (Yes I like the song, please just shoot me and end my misery) and I actually kind of wanted to join the military near the end of the song, even knowing full well that it was propaganda.
They played that song and a video before many movies I have seen in the theater. One I remember was Max Payne. Disappointing movie btw but I find it interesting that a movie that does nothing more than glorify and stylize murder and drugs is used to push a military career.
I hear they used drugs (I want to say heroin but I can't remember) on US soldier in Vietnam to "motivate" them. Wonder what drugs they are giving them today under the guise of "biological protection" or whatever nonsense they tell them now.

[coco]

It's scary how effective the brainwashing and hidden propaganda can be. I listened to "citizen soldier" (Yes I like the song, please just shoot me and end my misery) and I actually kind of wanted to join the military near the end of the song, even knowing full well that it was propaganda.
They played that song and a video before many movies I have seen in the theater. One I remember was Max Payne. Disappointing movie btw but I find it interesting that a movie that does nothing more than glorify and stylize murder and drugs is used to push a military career.
I hear they used drugs (I want to say heroin but I can't remember) on US soldier in Vietnam to "motivate" them. Wonder what drugs they are giving them today under the guise of "biological protection" or whatever nonsense they tell them now.

I'll be honest, I don't know what you speak of, truly. All Dad wanted to do was survive. The continued to stink til the early 80's and the man had himself to feed and house and a kid to pay for.

Before I saw things in the manner as I do now, I sought employment on base, but never got picked for a job - even outside a 'diverse', metropolitan area, as is politically correct to say. I'm glad of this, as now I do not want to work for the devil which means in this equally, crappy economy I am to be reliant on the charity of others, namely my father.

I look to the markets for an answer to future independence as there is no other answer I know of for retirement. And no, I don't look to live a 'high falootin' retirement'. I only want want what I need.

[coco]

Where I live, the Central Texas economy is very reliant on the military. If Ft Hood closed up tomorrow, this place wold dry up and blow away economically.

It's having a hard time now with so many more troops being shipped out that the rental industry is crying the blues about not having enough clients to support it and are dropping prices, thus having to eat the costs of electricity and water.

And the news contents that there is a reduction in troops overseas in the ME? My foot! Local papers illustrate men coming home on rotation yet print that more troops still are going over. So many so, that it's negatively impacting the local economy in addition to the impact the overall crappy economy is having here.

[driscol]

I'll be honest, I don't know what you speak of, truly. All Dad wanted to do was survive. The continued to stink til the early 80's and the man had himself to feed and house and a kid to pay for.

Before I saw things in the manner as I do now, I sought employment on base, but never got picked for a job - even outside a 'diverse', metropolitan area, as is politically correct to say. I'm glad of this, as now I do not want to work for the devil which means in this equally, crappy economy I am to be reliant on the charity of others, namely my father.

I look to the markets for an answer to future independence as there is no other answer I know of for retirement. And no, I don't look to live a 'high falootin' retirement'. I only want want what I need.
I guess I couldn't relate to that aspect. Much of my family is military or ex military and very few joined for financial reasons. Most seemed to join because....what else where they supposed to do?

There are plenty of things you can do if you just want to survive, joining the military isn't really the best option is survival is your only goal. Maybe it's just a different time but today a person can do drug trials for money or just mug people on the street, I would say either one has a better survival rate and you get to work close from home.

[lottie]

Totally agree with the OP!

This is a good watch if you feel you really want to support the troops!

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[coco]

I guess I couldn't relate to that aspect. Much of my family is military or ex military and very few joined for financial reasons. Most seemed to join because....what else where they supposed to do?

There are plenty of things you can do if you just want to survive, joining the military isn't really the best option is survival is your only goal. Maybe it's just a different time but today a person can do drug trials for money or just mug people on the street, I would say either one has a better survival rate and you get to work close from home.

Although options, I don't believe they were considered viable by my father at the time. :)

[pacmanpacks]

Here in Denmark we have a lot of people who buy these "support the troops" bumper stickers for 500$ or more - Just like the idiots in here who support the military order called Red Cross !!!

So, what is this? People pay extra in order to support these illegal wars, just to feel good... ? ... You people are SOOOO pathetic !!!

If anyone want to support the troops, they should at least pay to STOP the wars - NOT to continue them !!!
If you want a bumper sticker at all, it should say:

"Support the troops: STOP ILLEGAL WARS / END THE GENOCIDE and GET THE TROOPS HOME NOW !!!"

[coco]

Here in Denmark we have a lot of people who buy these "support the troops" bumper stickers for 500$ or more - Just like the idiots in here who support the military order called Red Cross !!!

So, what is this? People pay extra in order to support these illegal wars, just to feel good... ? ... You people are SOOOO pathetic !!!

If anyone want to support the troops, they should at least pay to STOP the wars - NOT to continue them !!!
If you want a bumper sticker at all, it should say:

"Support the troops: STOP ILLEGAL WARS / END THE GENOCIDE and GET THE TROOPS HOME NOW !!!"

Please forgive my ignorance, but what troops are they supporting and for what reason?

[eternal_spirit]

Originally Posted by pacmanpacks http://forum.davidicke.com/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?p=1060141992#post1060141992)
Here in Denmark we have a lot of people who buy these "support the troops" bumper stickers for 500$ or more - Just like the idiots in here who support the military order called Red Cross !!!
Don't dis the red cross man.

[302bluefog]

Great OG post...

I know alot of rednecks here in the U.S who go to the middle east just so they can have the thrill of killing "Towel Heads". I also know poor people that join the army just for the money. Most of the kids in the ROTC go right out of H.S for the College money.

:cool:

[akana]

They are just people paid to kill people.

I have no idea why anyone would support this.

Quoted for truth. Simple yet so true!!!