Acupuncture

[mikelambert]

If you want to become a Traditional Acupuncturist you will have to study for an average of four years (4 years), and you will not be allowed to needle people for some time, and only then when you are considered competent in needling techniques.

If you are a Doctor (medical) Chiropractor, Osteopath, Physio or any medical type, you attend a two day course. Yes two days !!!!

This is currently being offered at Cardiff University Wales as a course in Dry Needling.

This has been going on for years for members of the medical profession.

The reason I am posting this is because earlier this week I saw a lady who had been needled by a chiropractor (one of these two day wonders, but not necessarily from Cardiff Uni.) and she was in a state of distress, heavy bruising and pain.

This would never be allowed to happen at The Shen, believe me.

Naturally I am saddened because this sort of practice brings genuine acupuncturists into disrepute.

In my view you should enquire prior to accepting any acupuncture from these type of people (including your GP) as to the duration of their training, and their ability to diagnose.

[mila]

If you want to become a Traditional Acupuncturist you will have to study for an average of four years (4 years), and you will not be allowed to needle people for some time, and only then when you are considered competent in needling techniques.

If you are a Doctor (medical) Chiropractor, Osteopath, Physio or any medical type, you attend a two day course. Yes two days !!!!

This is currently being offered at Cardiff University Wales as a course in Dry Needling.

This has been going on for years for members of the medical profession.

The reason I am posting this is because earlier this week I saw a lady who had been needled by a chiropractor (one of these two day wonders, but not necessarily from Cardiff Uni.) and she was in a state of distress, heavy bruising and pain.

This would never be allowed to happen at The Shen, believe me.

Naturally I am saddened because this sort of practice brings genuine acupuncturists into disrepute.

In my view you should enquire prior to accepting any acupuncture from these type of people (including your GP) as to the duration of their training, and their ability to diagnose.

This is shocking.
Unfortunately I have experienced this myself. Not sure if this lady had such a short training, but something was very wrong for sure. I saw her name on a card in an organic shop and decided to visit her.

During the session I felt as if electricity was going through the meridians and this was very unpleasant (not the nice flowing of energy) I've had acupuncture before, from my gp who was trained in China for many years and this was very helpful to get rid of my migraines. I never experienced pain during those sessions.

I told the lady that the pain was becoming unbearable (one of the needles was in my big toe, next to the nail) and I thought this was not right and I felt really sick (was about to throw up) and she only laughed :eek:
After the session I felt like I had been stung by many wasps in my foot and face......for a week! Needless to say I never returned....

Important advice, Mike.

[montag]

If you want to become a Traditional Acupuncturist you will have to study for an average of four years (4 years), and you will not be allowed to needle people for some time, and only then when you are considered competent in needling techniques.

If you are a Doctor (medical) Chiropractor, Osteopath, Physio or any medical type, you attend a two day course. Yes two days !!!!

This is currently being offered at Cardiff University Wales as a course in Dry Needling.

This has been going on for years for members of the medical profession.

The reason I am posting this is because earlier this week I saw a lady who had been needled by a chiropractor (one of these two day wonders, but not necessarily from Cardiff Uni.) and she was in a state of distress, heavy bruising and pain.

This would never be allowed to happen at The Shen, believe me.

Naturally I am saddened because this sort of practice brings genuine acupuncturists into disrepute.

In my view you should enquire prior to accepting any acupuncture from these type of people (including your GP) as to the duration of their training, and their ability to diagnose.
To add insult to injury here in Australia acupuncture is being covered under the medicare system now for some chronic cases, yet only GP's, osteos or chiros are able to administer an acupuncture treatment to obtain the rebate, TCM practitioners are not included in the scheme.

[montag]

Acupuncture – a treatment to die for? A review of Edzard Ernst's article in The Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine

22/10/2010

In his editorial, Ernst says of acupuncture that, "serious complications, including deaths, have been noted with some regularity".(Ernst 2010) This, along with the dramatic title, is a disturbing statement. However after reading the article one is left with the conclusion that Ernst's data are partial and his conclusions limited.
First to the partial presentation of the facts, and specifically the claim that “epidemiology data do not exist and we, therefore, have to rely on anecdotes”. Ernst does not fully describe the literature on epidemiology studies, even though there is substantial evidence from such studies. Remarkably, he does not quote his own study (White et al. 2001) nor the parallel study also published in the same issue of the BMJ (MacPherson et al. 2001), which between them delivered prospectively collected data leading to evidence on over 60,000 acupuncture consultations. These studies led to the conclusion in the BMJ editorial that “acupuncture is safe in competent hands” (Vincent 2001). Ernst also fails to discuss some even bigger prospective studies, the largest involving over 200,000 patients receiving over two million treatments with no acupuncture-related deaths (Witt et al. 2009) .Using the Rule of Threes (Eypasch et al. 1995), this equates to being 95% confident that a death will not occur in 660,000 treatments1. As someone who has consistently promoted an evidence-based approach to complementary medicine, Ernst’s emphasis on anecdote ahead of epidemiology is somewhat incongruous.
Ernst’s conclusions are that training is needed and that safety is a key issue within acupuncture education. One cannot argue with either of these. However he disingenuously suggests that physicians are better educated, stating that non-physicians are “less well-trained therapists”. In fact, the level of acupuncture training provided for physicians is highly variable and often quite limited. For example in the UK, a two-weekend course is the standard introduction to acupuncture for physicians, after which they are encouraged to practise (see www.medical-acupuncture.co.uk/). The minimum of three years full-time education, usually at degree level, that British Acupuncture Council (BAcC) members receive is clearly a more substantial training (see www.acupuncture.org.uk). The BAcC core curriculum’s components that relate to acupuncture safety include safe needling protocols and identifying and referring when encountering red flag symptoms. Ernst may be concerned that non-physicians might miss a conventional medical diagnosis and therefore might put patients at risk through delaying conventional treatment, with cancer being the often-quoted example. However this concern was addressed directly in research conducted in the UK prospectively with over 6,000 patients of non-physician acupuncturists of the British Acupuncture Council, which found no evidence that that a missed diagnosis or delayed treatment was a major safety issue (MacPherson et al. 2004).
Ambiguity in the title of his article, “acupuncture - a treatment to die for”, suits Ernst. Sowing the seeds of doubt, along with a partial view of the evidence, enables him to stir up and amplify concerns about acupuncture safety. This leads him conveniently to the promotion of the role of physicians as the safe providers of acupuncture. However a fuller account of the existing evidence would substantially reduce the doubt, and provide less of a platform to level criticism at non-physician acupuncturists.

1Note: To have a 95% probability that no serious event occurs in n treatments, a survey sample size needs to be three times n.

http://www.jcm.co.uk/drum-tower-archive/article/acupuncture-a-treatment-to-die-for-a-review-of-edzard-ernsts-article-in-the-journal-of-the-royal-society-of-medicine-1444/

[93krystalmoons]

what a shame so many under qualified people are able to stick needles in people! That doesn't look very good for me because I was considering dropping my MA in Women's Studies and getting an MA in acupuncture at a alternative treatments school in my area :confused:

[aronia]

I used a very professonal Chinese woman, she get the best needles ship from China. She is educated in acupuncture at the China Academy of Traditional Chinese Medicine.

http://www.cintcm.ac.cn/gam/gamy/e_zyyjy.html

[montag]

what a shame so many under qualified people are able to stick needles in people! That doesn't look very good for me because I was considering dropping my MA in Women's Studies and getting an MA in acupuncture at a alternative treatments school in my area :confused:
Thing is these people doing weekend courses will never achieve the same results that a fully trained practitioner in Chinese med will get. Physios and chiros etc who use needles are actually performing what is known as dry needling and is quite different from acupuncture. Dry needling is ok for musculoskeletal issues but it doesn't address underlying deficiencies which are internal, often the musculoskeletal problem is just a symptom (branch) not the cause (root).

I'm in my second year studying acupuncture, if you have a passion for it I highly recommend studying, I love it..

[heuer]

Bullshit if you ask me.

I've never been to an acupuncturist but reading stuff like this certainly doesn't help.

I have always wanted to go but finding a decent one these days isn't what you would define as being easy!

Just part of the agenda. Anything that's any use naturally to the human is being slowly destroyed and being replaced by chemicals and science.

[heuer]

I'm in my second year studying acupuncture, if you have a passion for it I highly recommend studying, I love it..

I note you live in Aus.

What uni do you study it at (if you don't mind me asking)?

[93krystalmoons]

Thing is these people doing weekend courses will never achieve the same results that a fully trained practitioner in Chinese med will get. Physios and chiros etc who use needles are actually performing what is known as dry needling and is quite different from acupuncture. Dry needling is ok for musculoskeletal issues but it doesn't address underlying deficiencies which are internal, often the musculoskeletal problem is just a symptom (branch) not the cause (root).

I'm in my second year studying acupuncture, if you have a passion for it I highly recommend studying, I love it..

I can imagine they wouldn't! :eek: scary. The program I'm looking into takes 3 years and several hours of hands on practice. I'm really interested in it, I did my BA in Women's Studies so I think I want to change my MA to something different so I can mix it up!

In general I want to help people heal through alternative medicine and practices, and I have been thinking about it for some time now. The school I was looking in to Tai Sophia (just search) they have tons of campuses and are an older accredited education establishment.

I'm glad to hear you're enjoying your study!

[cosmicstardust]

I studied four long years to graduate with a BSc in Oriental Medicine (Acupuncture) and it has always bothered me that medics/physios etc can needle after a weekend course. I think it undermines the entire philosophy behind Chinese Medicine and therefore will not be effective in treating. Tho I had a GP once who was aware enough to give me his Chinese Med text books as he said he was not confident enough to use needles after only a short course taken in China.
So, yes, be aware there is a difference between dry needling and Chinese Medicine.

[montag]

I studied four long years to graduate with a BSc in Oriental Medicine (Acupuncture) and it has always bothered me that medics/physios etc can needle after a weekend course. I think it undermines the entire philosophy behind Chinese Medicine and therefore will not be effective in treating. Tho I had a GP once who was aware enough to give me his Chinese Med text books as he said he was not confident enough to use needles after only a short course taken in China.
So, yes, be aware there is a difference between dry needling and Chinese Medicine.
Here in Australia only registered acupuncturists are allowed to use the title 'acupuncturist', but other modalities just get around that by calling it dry needling, the patients really don't know the difference. I've had loads of people tell they have tried acupuncture before and when you inquire further you find out that their pysio just stuck some needles in trigger points, but they think it's acupuncture because the physio asks them "have you ever tried acupuncture?" and then proceeds to needle them, no wonder it's confusing.

So yes it can be a little frustrating.:)