Banning of Herbs and Nutrition 2011

[mikelambert]

In April 2011 the EU will try to pass a law banning the sale of most herbs and many nutritional products by Alternative/Complementary Medicine Practitioners including those of Traditional Chinese Medicine, and classify them all as medicines under the control of the Drug Agency, the Medical Profession and their paymasters the Big Pharma.

There is a vast difference in my opinion between natural herbal remedies, and herb extractions used in pharmaceutical drugs.

For a start Big Pharma can't patent a natural herb or plant, so they extract the active ingredient and sythesise it, creating a copy, which does not in many peoples view work in a safe and natural way, but B-Pharma can patent it and make loads of money. This can be where the trouble starts.

The global annual death rate associated with the use of pharmaceutical drugs is estimated to run into figures close on two million.

Herbs used in their natural state are often left complete, meaning that parts of a plant selected are used complete in the herbal process. Compelling findings assure us that, contained within a plant are the complete balancing mechanisms of nature. For example: in Chinese herbal medicine there is a plant, of which one of its active ingredients can raise blood pressure, however, the other ingredients contained in the plant actually keep blood pressure stable. Take a remedy made from the complete herb and it can be safe, extract the active ingredient and use it in isolation and it could become harmful, if not downright dangerous. A bit like Pharmaceutical Drugs.

Generally in my view herbs are gentler, more affective and a lot safer than pharmaceutical drugs.

Herbal Practitioners study for years and face high levels of professional scrutiny, because prescribing herbs is a very responsible job, and of course, as with all responsibility it requires a high level of competency and understanding.

Of course there could be another factor too why they want to ban these herbs, that being, in the whole of Europe last year people spent an estimated 13 billion Euros on herbal and homeopathic remedies, and many doctors in Europe prescribed them in place of pharmaceutical drugs on a regular basis. Why? (a) because they feel they work, and (b) people are fed up with being poisoned through the use of toxic Big Pharma drugs, and it is likely that many doctors in Europe would agree with this.

Here is an example: We have also studied and been trained in the practice of Physiological Regulation Medicine, a modern advanced system of Complex Homeopathy which uses a mixture of acupuncture and homeopathic remedies. We did this in Milan Italy under the direction of the University of Milan, where we sat the examination of the Italian Biological Medical Association. (As a matter of much lesser interest, we passed.)

We were informed at that time that Italy has over 20,000 doctors trained in this sort of medicine, and France has 18,000 doctors trained in similar systems, many of these no longer use pharmaceutical drugs any more.

We only know of 1 (one) English medical doctor trained in this modality, as well as us, and a very limited number of other non-medical practitioners, and we are not sure if he (the doctor) even uses it.

Here's a message from me to Big Pharma:

"Sorry lads, Nature beat you to it"

[drnancymalik]

There's threat of natural products going out of the market.

Time is running out. View more about CODEX here http://twitwall.com/view/?what=0B0C080907

[mikelambert]

There's threat of natural products going out of the market.

Time is running out. View more about CODEX here http://twitwall.com/view/?what=0B0C080907

Yes you are right modern homeopathy / nano-medicine is very affective, and we use it a lot at the Shen Clinic. We also collaborate in research.

[mijas]

I have written to and e-mailed two of my local European representatives to ask them to intervene and to stop this European Directive for April 2011.
I didnt get a response yet but I reckon the more people that do this, the more opposition they get, the better the chance that it may not go through.
Someone on another forum posted a link to find your nearest European rep and also a sample letter layout, I will try to find it and maybe post here.

[huyi]

that is ridiculous, i rely on herbal medicine for my health.

[mikelambert]

I have written to and e-mailed two of my local European representatives to ask them to intervene and to stop this European Directive for April 2011.
I didnt get a response yet but I reckon the more people that do this, the more opposition they get, the better the chance that it may not go through.
Someone on another forum posted a link to find your nearest European rep and also a sample letter layout, I will try to find it and maybe post here.

Thank you for contacting the MP's, at least you are trying to do something which is more than most. Sadly many MP's are on the payroll.

"Evil continues because good men stand and watch" Plato.

[mikelambert]

Thank you for contacting the MP's, at least you are trying to do something which is more than most. Sadly many MP's are on the payroll.

"Evil continues because good men stand and watch" Plato.


Apparently contrary to what we are led to believe the BHMA which is behind the 2011 EU banning is not funded by the government. It is a limited company funded by the drug cartels.

It is apparently not an EU idea, but a British one!!!!! that has now been given the backing of the EU, through the back door.

If your MP is not a crook (in which case you are extremely lucky) write to him, and keep spreading the word please. Thank You.

[blue2]

As my local MP is Con-servative and a Solicitor to boot and regarded in some quarters as not very good then can't see me writing to him ! Powers that be do not want people to be well cos the Health service is an Ill service more dosh in it for them all. Such are the levels of corruptions in all Corporate body's.

[xerhaz]

I find this deeply shocking

[mijas]

Ok here is that link that I found on this proposed EU Directive, if you go to the Home page, under Recent Articles, about 13 articles down is "Big Pharma Scores Big Win." www.gaia-health.com

There you can read more about this proposed Bill, in which they hope to ban all kinds of herbs/supplements/homeopathy etc - also a link where you can find out who your EU MP is, their contact details including e-mail, and a sample letter you can send (or e-mail) to put pressure on them not to support this. Its worth a shot, the more people that do this, the better the chance we have of it not going through.

Please do take the trouble to even send an e-mail, it will only take a few minutes & it will mean so much in the long term if we can prevent some of our freedoms being taken away.

[mikelambert]

Allegedly, contrary to what we are led to believe the MHRA which is behind the 2011 EU banning is not funded by the government. It is a limited company funded by the drug cartels.

It is also alleged that this is not an EU idea, but a British one!!!!! that has now been given the backing of the EU, through the back door.

If your MP is not a crook (in which case you are extremely lucky) write to him/her, and keep spreading the word please. Thank You.

IN ERROR -- It should be the MHRA

[mikelambert]

Apparently contrary to what we are led to believe the which is behind the 2011 EU banning is not funded by the government. It is a limited company funded by the drug cartels.

It is apparently not an EU idea, but a British one!!!!! that has now been given the backing of the EU, through the back door.

If your MP is not a crook (in which case you are extremely lucky) write to him, and keep spreading the word please. Thank You.

IN ERROR: It should be the MHRA

[mikelambert]

Apparently contrary to what we are led to believe the BHMA which is behind the 2011 EU banning is not funded by the government. It is a limited company funded by the drug cartels.

It is apparently not an EU idea, but a British one!!!!! that has now been given the backing of the EU, through the back door.

If your MP is not a crook (in which case you are extremely lucky) write to him, and keep spreading the word please. Thank You.

This should be MHRA

[infinategood]

When will the "us" and "them" fade? :eek:

Surely people making and supporting these laws take herbs...why is this happening and things like it? Are we headed to a reality where 10 people control trillions?


:eek:

[mikelambert]

When will the "us" and "them" fade? :eek:

Surely people making and supporting these laws take herbs...why is this happening and things like it? Are we headed to a reality where 10 people control trillions?


:eek:
They might be taking them, but they obviously don't want you, me, or any of our loved ones taking them, do they?

If I remember rightly, Tony Blair when asked if his son Leo had been vaccinated, replied with the words to this affect: "you don't think I wouldn't have my son vaccinated, do you?" To the best of my knowledge he still refuses to utter the fateful words, YES he has been vaccinated!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is likely that 10 people have always controlled the trillions.


Has it ever been any different?

[infinategood]

They might be taking them, but they obviously don't want you, me, or any of our loved ones taking them, do they?

If I remember rightly, Tony Blair when asked if his son Leo had been vaccinated, replied with the words to this affect: "you don't think I wouldn't have my son vaccinated, do you?" To the best of my knowledge he still refuses to utter the fateful words, YES he has been vaccinated!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is likely that 10 people have always controlled the trillions.


Has it ever been any different?

I guess its just getting all the more obvious then...

[paolo]

I bought a remedy maker so I can at least get the frequencies of the herbs and homeopathic remedies and much else besides. Also a frequency generator to apply direct to the body energy.
Flower essences are quite simply made given recognition of the flowers and plants involved and some sunlight. Even Yorkshire has a set of locally obtained flower essences
http://www.baileyessences.com/welcome.htm
Also nature still abounds with curative plantlife.
You need to make sure you have plenty of books on identification, uses and preparation
We will defeat these bastards' best laid plans

[earthwalkr]

Executive Order #13544, signed on june 10th, 2010 by President Obama

This E.O. MANDATES that the US adopt the Codex Alimentarius, ( which originated with the UN).

This begins a WORLDWIDE CAMPAIGN FOR MASSIVE HUNGER AND STARVATION.
(Population control)

It also intends to bring ALL vitamin / mineral supplements and natural health remedies and technologies TO AN END.

My advice: Grow the herbs you depend upon plus get a garden started.
BUY THOSE SEEDS NOW, before they are taken from the stores / catalogs.

Be prepared as much as possible. It's in your hands now that you know.

[mikelambert]

There's threat of natural products going out of the market.

Time is running out. View more about CODEX here http://twitwall.com/view/?what=0B0C080907

You can do something. Complete this, and send it off.

http://www.avaaz.org/en/eu_gmo

[blue2]

I will go to the link but will the powers that be really listen this time because they are hell bent on worldwide destruction- in fact a couple nights ago on Ch5 prog on After Armageddon and some survival skills, and i thought is this a hint of what's to come with Civic buildings down and crumbled away lol- and a few month back i found an American guy selling a proper Organic seed bank,think i should have got some, there is the organic gardeing catologue in uk that then might be out of business before too long. Seer Centre sell rock dust to remineralize your gardens if push comes to shove to grow onw veges and juice...

[blue2]

Sorry they want far too much personal detail on that form to sign DOB etc.

[energi]

that is ridiculous, i rely on herbal medicine for my health.

+1

[thefreeradical]

You can do something. Complete this, and send it off.

http://www.avaaz.org/en/eu_gmo



This petition is for the GM crops? Is there one about these herbs?

[thefreeradical]

I bought a remedy maker so I can at least get the frequencies of the herbs and homeopathic remedies and much else besides. Also a frequency generator to apply direct to the body energy.
Flower essences are quite simply made given recognition of the flowers and plants involved and some sunlight. Even Yorkshire has a set of locally obtained flower essences
http://www.baileyessences.com/welcome.htm
Also nature still abounds with curative plantlife.
You need to make sure you have plenty of books on identification, uses and preparation
We will defeat these bastards' best laid plans


Exactly :D

[drhemp]

I've been warning and campaigning against this for many years now. To no avail it seems, the fascists are getting their way.

Mass non-compliance is the only answer. Make this unworkable. Change the labels of the herbs and put "not for human consumption". Not an ideal solution, but the alternative is to see these things disappear in favour of patented allopathic medicines sold by big pharma.

[drhemp]

Actually, this is beyond fascism, as Chinese herbs and medicines were never illegal in Nazi Germany.

[pipsicle]

Executive Order #13544, signed on june 10th, 2010 by President Obama

This E.O. MANDATES that the US adopt the Codex Alimentarius, ( which originated with the UN).



And indeed given to the UN by the Auschwitz-gassing war criminal and I.G. Farben chief Hermann Schmiz.

Mike, what can we do to stop this?

[hurr]

More rules and regulations, less freedom. Nice!.:)

[thegatherer]

In April 2011 the EU will try to pass a law banning the sale of most herbs and many nutritional products by Alternative/Complementary Medicine Practitioners including those of Traditional Chinese Medicine, and classify them all as medicines under the control of the Drug Agency, the Medical Profession and their paymasters the Big Pharma.

There is a vast difference in my opinion between natural herbal remedies, and herb extractions used in pharmaceutical drugs.

For a start Big Pharma can't patent a natural herb or plant, so they extract the active ingredient and sythesise it, creating a copy, which does not in many peoples view work in a safe and natural way, but B-Pharma can patent it and make loads of money. This can be where the trouble starts.

The global annual death rate associated with the use of pharmaceutical drugs is estimated to run into figures close on two million.

Herbs used in their natural state are often left complete, meaning that parts of a plant selected are used complete in the herbal process. Compelling findings assure us that, contained within a plant are the complete balancing mechanisms of nature. For example: in Chinese herbal medicine there is a plant, of which one of its active ingredients can raise blood pressure, however, the other ingredients contained in the plant actually keep blood pressure stable. Take a remedy made from the complete herb and it can be safe, extract the active ingredient and use it in isolation and it could become harmful, if not downright dangerous. A bit like Pharmaceutical Drugs.

Generally in my view herbs are gentler, more affective and a lot safer than pharmaceutical drugs.

Herbal Practitioners study for years and face high levels of professional scrutiny, because prescribing herbs is a very responsible job, and of course, as with all responsibility it requires a high level of competency and understanding.

Of course there could be another factor too why they want to ban these herbs, that being, in the whole of Europe last year people spent an estimated 13 billion Euros on herbal and homeopathic remedies, and many doctors in Europe prescribed them in place of pharmaceutical drugs on a regular basis. Why? (a) because they feel they work, and (b) people are fed up with being poisoned through the use of toxic Big Pharma drugs, and it is likely that many doctors in Europe would agree with this.

Here is an example: We have also studied and been trained in the practice of Physiological Regulation Medicine, a modern advanced system of Complex Homeopathy which uses a mixture of acupuncture and homeopathic remedies. We did this in Milan Italy under the direction of the University of Milan, where we sat the examination of the Italian Biological Medical Association. (As a matter of much lesser interest, we passed.)

We were informed at that time that Italy has over 20,000 doctors trained in this sort of medicine, and France has 18,000 doctors trained in similar systems, many of these no longer use pharmaceutical drugs any more.

We only know of 1 (one) English medical doctor trained in this modality, as well as us, and a very limited number of other non-medical practitioners, and we are not sure if he (the doctor) even uses it.

Here's a message from me to Big Pharma:

"Sorry lads, Nature beat you to it"

Hello Mike,
Do you have any idea how this legislation will affect practicing herbalists? I am a qualified (degree) non practising herbalist and I do use herbs every day for myself. I use tinctures from profesional suppliers but no-one seems to know much about this or how it will affect things in reality.
Thanks.

[zsymon]

The ban has to be voted on, it isn't sure yet it will pass, and I doubt it will.

There are too many herbalists out there, too many people using and consuming
herbs, the chances that this law gets passed are very low.

[tzikin]

I am going to give the other point of view.

There are reasons for this. An emotional response of 'We don't like it' is unlikely to work. You must play them at their own game if you are actually going to win.

The aim is not to remove all herbal medicines from the market, but to bring them under strict control in terms of licenses to produce and sell these herbs, or rather herb extracts rather than the raw herb, and perhaps also to prescribe them. This is another issue that already exists (I am told) in other parts of Europe where anybody intervening and advising in health matter must have some sort of formal qualification so that they know how the human body works.

It is a law designed to protect against charletanism. That is how it will be sold. It is a law to protect the public against somebody who thinks that they are a health guru after a two or three day course in Reiki or acupuncture, have read a couple of pages on the internet and think that they are god's gift to healing.

It is presented as a means of preventing the public, who do not understand how a clinical trial should be run, from being fooled by inadequate evidence that sounds scientific. It is a limitation of the freedom of choice, a facet of the Nanny state, in the same way that it really does not matter what you think about wearing a seat belt because somebody told you that they think that seatbelts are dangerous because uncle Bill got a very nasty bruise after an accident.

And it is to stop cowboys from taking advantage by selling low quality alternative products. Standards will be set and imposed to assure that what you buy is of an adequate quality.

On the plus side, this should improve the reputation and standards in alternative health.

I doubt if it will apply to the sale of mono-atomic gold as a means to ascension, so long as there is no evidence that it could do harm, even in overdose. It will only be applied in the case of measurable disease. I do not think that it will apply to qualified experts in Chinese medicine or to the unprocessed teas that they make from raw ingredients. Qualified practitioners will be given more rights to prescribe, as doctors, natural or synthetic chemicals that could have significant side effects if abused.

This law will be sold as protecting the public and assuring standards in alternative health. Those standards are also being imposed on the pharmaceutical industry and doctors, who are being forced by government to accept non-pharmaceutical and non-surgical health interventions against their will and vested interests. Some medicines are being banned in medicine, the claims for their success are being refuted and the situations in which they can be used are being severely limited.

In this global process, we may see the end of anti-depressants in favour of Cognitive Behavioural psychology and neck massage replacing aspirin and ibuprofen. It is that radical and it is not in favour of the pharmaceutical companies. That is the global context of this.

Some herbal medicines will disappear but surprisingly few. Most of them will simply be relabeled in order to get round the laws. 'Ginseng was used by Chinese sages, believing that it was invigorating'. Once you talk about Chi, you are outside of any western health legislation.

That is not the biggest issue here. The biggest issue is the cost of research and production. Costs will increase and the pharmaceutical giants will be the only ones with the cash to fund the research. They will take command of the herbal and homeopathic industries, including them in their monopoly.

The simplest issue is that we want independent funding for research to prevent that from happening under monopoly legislation. There must be a reasonable amount of time for this to happen, which procrastinate the introduction of these laws, even for those that alternative medicine practice without adequate training to seek that training. Those resources need to be provided too.

There are complex issues related to research criteria that need to be addressed. Patient selection is not permitted, or rather, patients are only selected on the basis of the medical diagnostic system. Alternative diagnostic systems work very differently and so the western medical model cannot be applied. Often, multiple strategies are used in alternative healing and it is the combination and interaction of many therapies that yield the results rather than a simple a+b=c equation.

Hopefully, with more information, we can fight the extreme case in which the pharmaceutical industry takes over the herbal industry by taking the middle road and protect the alternative health industry from collapse or domination.

[thegatherer]

The ban has to be voted on, it isn't sure yet it will pass, and I doubt it will.

There are too many herbalists out there, too many people using and consuming
herbs, the chances that this law gets passed are very low.

You know I think a lot of herbalists think that this will be good for them because people may have to start going to see a qualified herbalist to get herbs. It was quite a big issue when I was a member of NIMH (National Institute of Medical Herbalists) some years ago and the institute I think voted in favour of it....though some big names also resigned from the Institute. It was all tied up with SSR (Statutory Self Regulation) etc.

Personally I think herbalsits have fucked up because the EU, once herbs are within a regulatory framework, will start to ban more and more and make it more and more difficult to get a license to practice etc. Unfortunately a lot of herbalists are quite naive about the governments intentions...though saying that many of them are strong alternative thinkers.

Anyway, in a nutshell I think herbalists went along with this thinking they would start to make more money....sell out??

[tzikin]

You know I think a lot of herbalists think that this will be good for them because people may have to start going to see a qualified herbalist to get herbs. It was quite a big issue when I was a member of NIMH (National Institute of Medical Herbalists) some years ago and the institute I think voted in favour of it....though some big names also resigned from the Institute. It was all tied up with SSR (Statutory Self Regulation) etc.

Personally I think herbalsits have fucked up because the EU, once herbs are within a regulatory framework, will start to ban more and more and make it more and more difficult to get a license to practice etc. Unfortunately a lot of herbalists are quite naive about the governments intentions...though saying that many of them are strong alternative thinkers.

Anyway, in a nutshell I think herbalists went along with this thinking they would start to make more money....sell out??
Statutory Self Regulation is what it is all about. Any group that does not self regulate voluntarily will have it imposed from outside. It is part of the process of Assured Standards of Practice with professional liability.

Doctors, teachers, every government department and lawyers have all been exposed to the same process. It is even happening for brickies, plumbers and electricians. Even they must have a registered qualification and be legally responsible for their work. The British government is after absolutely everybody in every profession and nobody likes it when it happens to them.

The medical profession, after a few skirmishes, are voluntarily following the process of Assured Standards and so they have largely kept their self-governing status. The pharmaceutical giants have voluntarily surrendered to the process too and they are right under the government's thumb. And the government is really squeezing them. The teachers did not so they got hammered with The National Curriculum and outside observation and are really suffering for it.

NIMH probably did not know what they were voting on. It was the right to be self-governing or whether they would be externally controlled in Assured Standards of Professional Practice.

If they can do it to builders, gas fitters and car mechanics, they will do it to alternative medicine too. For fuck's sake. They have created legal requirements for babysitting!

They pushed that through by a spate of front page headlines where babysitters killed kids. Suddenly there were all these documentaries about cowboy builders. If they perceive any problems, they will do the same to herbalists to turn the public against them. The public will want protection against unqualified herbalists and cowboy manufacturers. They will use the media to deliberately destroy the public's belief that herbology is safe.

You will not stop it. You will only hurt yourself trying. All that is left is damage limitation.

It should be possible to keep herbology self governing and it could be possible to prevent the pharmaceutical giants from taking over all production.

[thegatherer]

Statutory Self Regulation is what it is all about. Any group that does not self regulate voluntarily will have it imposed from outside. It is part of the process of Assured Standards of Practice with professional liability.

Doctors, teachers, every government department and lawyers have all been exposed to the same process. It is even happening for brickies, plumbers and electricians. Even they must have a registered qualification and be legally responsible for their work. The British government is after absolutely everybody in every profession and nobody likes it when it happens to them.

The medical profession, after a few skirmishes, are voluntarily following the process of Assured Standards and so they have largely kept their self-governing status. The pharmaceutical giants have voluntarily surrendered to the process too and they are right under the government's thumb. And the government is really squeezing them. The teachers did not so they got hammered with The National Curriculum and outside observation and are really suffering for it.

NIMH probably did not know what they were voting on. It was the right to be self-governing or whether they would be externally controlled in Assured Standards of Professional Practice.

If they can do it to builders, gas fitters and car mechanics, they will do it to alternative medicine too. For fuck's sake. They have created legal requirements for babysitting!

They pushed that through by a spate of front page headlines where babysitters killed kids. Suddenly there were all these documentaries about cowboy builders. If they perceive any problems, they will do the same to herbalists to turn the public against them. The public will want protection against unqualified herbalists and cowboy manufacturers. They will use the media to deliberately destroy the public's belief that herbology is safe.

You will not stop it. You will only hurt yourself trying. All that is left is damage limitation.

It should be possible to keep herbology self governing and it could be possible to prevent the pharmaceutical giants from taking over all production.

The SSR thing was difficult for NIMH and split them down the middle for a while.
At the time this legislation which comes into effect in April 2011 was supposed make it more difficult for manufacturers to sell herbal prooducts that weren't properly tested. But I think the wording is vague and could end up affecting professional herbalists just as much.

I imagine this will be the start of a 'tiptoe' towards pharmaceutical domination of the Natural Health field. Licenses to manufacture products will be too costly for smaller firms. There will also be a push towards only Dr's prescribing herbs...as is the case in Germany now...and we all know who controls the Dr's...so checkmate.

[tzikin]

The SSR thing was difficult for NIMH and split them down the middle for a while.
At the time this legislation which comes into effect in April 2011 was supposed make it more difficult for manufacturers to sell herbal prooducts that weren't properly tested. But I think the wording is vague and could end up affecting professional herbalists just as much.

I imagine this will be the start of a 'tiptoe' towards pharmaceutical domination of the Natural Health field. Licenses to manufacture products will be too costly for smaller firms. There will also be a push towards only Dr's prescribing herbs...as is the case in Germany now...and we all know who controls the Dr's...so checkmate.

Sorry, Gatherer, who do you think controls the doctors in the UK and what are their objectives?

Do not confuse the political control that the pharmaceutical companies have in the US with what is happening in the UK. There is a degree of suspicion amongst the doctors for the pharmaceutical companies.

The general trend in the UK is to widen prescribing and get work away from doctors, which the government pays for, and into the private sector. The doctor (or increasingly the nurse) is seen as having a keyworker role, diagnosing what should be dealt with by medicine and referring people elsewhere for other treatments.

Which type of testing are we talking? I assume that April 2011 will be product quality testing rather than testing the herbs in clinical trials. What does it actually cover? I guess synthetic supplements and most things in tablet form. I doubt if it covers the whole spectrum from belladona as far as garlic and aloe juice. They can hardly control medicinal foods like grapes.

[mikelambert]

Sorry, Gatherer, who do you think controls the doctors in the UK and what are their objectives?

Do not confuse the political control that the pharmaceutical companies have in the US with what is happening in the UK. There is a degree of suspicion amongst the doctors for the pharmaceutical companies.

The general trend in the UK is to widen prescribing and get work away from doctors, which the government pays for, and into the private sector. The doctor (or increasingly the nurse) is seen as having a keyworker role, diagnosing what should be dealt with by medicine and referring people elsewhere for other treatments.

Which type of testing are we talking? I assume that April 2011 will be product quality testing rather than testing the herbs in clinical trials. What does it actually cover? I guess synthetic supplements and most things in tablet form. I doubt if it covers the whole spectrum from belladona as far as garlic and aloe juice. They can hardly control medicinal foods like grapes.

If anyone would like to keep up to date with what is happening with CODEX,
I suggest you go to the website of the Alliance of Natural Health (International) who it appears is trying to bring some clarity to the situation with a view to fighting it in the European Courts. http://www.anhinternational.org/

[tzikin]

If anyone would like to keep up to date with what is happening with CODEX,
I suggest you go to the website of the Alliance of Natural Health (International) who it appears is trying to bring some clarity to the situation with a view to fighting it in the European Courts. http://www.anhinternational.org/

Hi Mike,
Are you telling me that this thread is based on a misinterpretation of what is about to happen? I cannot find anything that really relates to the title of this topic on the ANH website.

I have worked in medical politics, educational reforms and general cultural change that is planned from a government level and what I have expressed is general objectives and methods that sooner or later, will affect herbalists and natural medicines. I think that this information is useful in the long term and in understanding many parts of the current political process, especially in health.

Information on the Codex on the ANH page is also very important.

Since you are interested in such matters, why don't you come and contribute on General, Let's Make Darwinism Extinct...

It relates directly to these issues. Somehow, Darwinism leads to the founded assumption that our chromosomal DNA cannot change during life. Nobody says it out loud but everybody believes it and acts as if it were proven. Bacterial evidence seems to prove that genetic change does happen in life as a direct response to low doses of a new chemical substance that is toxic at high dosage.

Bringing that theory to light in Evolution could spark the research that is needed on the genetic side effects of 'safe doses' of toxic chemicals in our food stuffs. I believe that it would finally prove that there is no safe dosage.

Challenging this unproven assumption also would appear to add a very strong argument against GM foods in the public eye.

[thegatherer]

Sorry, Gatherer, who do you think controls the doctors in the UK and what are their objectives?

Do not confuse the political control that the pharmaceutical companies have in the US with what is happening in the UK. There is a degree of suspicion amongst the doctors for the pharmaceutical companies.

Whether directly or indirectly it is pretty clear that the Pharmaceutical companies are pulling the strings of UK doctors. They are providing the medicines that the doctors prescribe. They give guidelines on medication and incentives to those doctors to keep patients on long term medication. Front organisations such as the BMA dictate policy to the Government regarding direction of the NHS, treatments etc. The Government is itself a front organisation for the Illuminati which owns the pharmaceuticals.
Any Dr who wants to step out of line and act independantly will be soon under pressure, with threat of loss of license to practice.

A free, independant system would allow Dr's to use any means necessary to treat people; from holistic treatments through to pharmaceuticals where necessary; probably with the patients given freedom of choice. We clearly dont have anything like that.

Saying that I do realise there will be many good, well intentioned Dr's out there who view pharmaceutical companies with suspicion. Ultimately though they are paid very well, not by mistake, to keep the status quo as it is.

[tzikin]

Whether directly or indirectly it is pretty clear that the Pharmaceutical companies are pulling the strings of UK doctors. They are providing the medicines that the doctors prescribe. They give guidelines on medication and incentives to those doctors to keep patients on long term medication. Front organisations such as the BMA dictate policy to the Government regarding direction of the NHS, treatments etc. The Government is itself a front organisation for the Illuminati which owns the pharmaceuticals.
Any Dr who wants to step out of line and act independantly will be soon under pressure, with threat of loss of license to practice.

A free, independant system would allow Dr's to use any means necessary to treat people; from holistic treatments through to pharmaceuticals where necessary; probably with the patients given freedom of choice. We clearly dont have anything like that.

Saying that I do realise there will be many good, well intentioned Dr's out there who view pharmaceutical companies with suspicion. Ultimately though they are paid very well, not by mistake, to keep the status quo as it is.

Definitely, the US, Canadian and Swiss Governments are under the complete control of the pharmaceutical and other corporate industries. Certainly, the modern US government is under the control of extremely evil powers, worse than you could ever imagine. They are the machines from the matrix, farming humans for their energy and those beings are trying to take over the world. but they are not machines but extraterrestrial intelligences from the fourth dimension, the astral plane where you go when you sleep.
Do not worry that they are Luciferians. They are not. They are dealing with something vastly worse. They are not Illuminati, Sun worshipers, that follow the light. The Bavarian Illuminati were a benign but insignificant bunch of well meaning intellectuals and political reformers that believed in the ideals of the Age of Enlightenment and borrowed a few Sun symbols that they barely understood. The early presidents followed a similar doctrine of what most modern humans would consider goodness. Most Masons would follow too if they really knew the issues.
The evil of the current administration and the corporations hides behind those symbols and that name. They worship the night, the darkness of the night and the worst demons you can imagine.
They are the shepherds who protect their sheep to f**k them, milk them, fleece them, sell their children and eat them. And the stupid sheeple feel safe and cared for. They never think of the cost of this protection.

Think of the UK Government as wily wolves. Yes, they eat sheep. They are not their friends but they are the true enemy of the shepherd. They want to kill all the shepherds so that the sheep run free and they can take what they want, the lame and the slow.

Sadly, the sheep think the shepherd is their friend and protector and the wolf is their enemy. They want all that the shepherd offers them, the comforts, the pretense of safety, the soft life and weak dependence. They are not listening to the wolf that wants to bring their freedom. So the wolf has to chose trickery and deceit to free the sheep from the shepherd and force them to fend for themselves in the wild. And they have to trick the shepherd to, to manipulate him and stab him behind his back so that the sheep do not notice that they are enemies of their saviour and protector.

It is a powerful metaphor for what is happening.

You have got about as far as working out that the shepherd eats sheep too but to you, that makes the wolf and the shepherd equal, except for the shepherd offers you the soft life. You have not worked out the difference between what the shepherd is offering and what the wolf offers you because you are too used to the shepherd. You certainly have not worked out the wily wolf's game and disguises.

And you have not yet worked out that you cannot have your cake and eat it. You want everything that the shepherd offers, the protection and soft life but without the costs that the shepherd demands for that. You even want individual attention from the shepherd so that you do not have to be a part of the flock but you can do your own thing all day without consequence. You want freedom and protection and without the existence of the wolf.

It is not quite accurate but it is very close to it. Humans are the bottom of the food pyramid in the astral world.

I am about as highly trained as anybody could be in the British 'Illuminati', who again are not but they do practice some very heavy magic and deal with beings in the astral. I was introduced to these beings in a very special school where I was chosen out as being one of the future 'Illuminati' elite. I have been a health service manager and an NHS doctor. I choose to work here without license here to avoid complications under these laws but I think that I could have got away with what I do in the UK if I had been careful with how I expressed it and bent the truth a little.

Certainly, I could and did use almost all kinds of alternative therapies in the UK but there is a strange law that states that a GP is responsible for anybody that they refer a patient too. A GP is responsible if the lab gets test results mixed up. They are responsible if a consultant makes a mistake. They are also responsible if an alternative therapist that they have recommended makes a mistake. With inadequate professional registration in many specialties outside of medicine, that becomes a problem and you end up telling patients to look in the phone book.

The only complete blockage to alternative practice in the NHS was time. My treatments are so holistic that my average therapy time is 4 hours. It does not allow time for what I do here, which includes acupuncture, energy work, dietary work, postural work, spiritual guidance, herbology, just about any mainstream western alternative medicine or psychology and going right outside of the mainstream to the reversal of witchcraft and full blown exorcisms of demons.

I could actually have practiced any of those things under the GP contract and the only problems would have been time and what my patients thought of those practices.

There is very little about what doctors cannot do. They are allowed to do anything. What they must do is what has been proven by the evidence. What they must not do is anything, which mainly applies to pharmaceuticals and surgery, that has been proven to be excessively dangerous. Where you hear of doctors complaining about government controls, it applies only to pharmaceuticals and it is usually because they are not allowed to use them.

The UK government is not controlled by the pharmaceuticals. It takes what it can, only the most effective drugs and at the lowest prices. Half the drugs that are available in other countries are not licensed in the UK. Side effects are taken extremely seriously and the Nanny State attitude prevents patient choice in drugs that, for instance, treat baldness but cause cancer. It limits the contact with the pharmaceutical companies as much as possible to prevent brainwashing. It is transferring a large part of primary care responsibility to nurses as the first line because they have less pharmaceutical brainwashing and a very limited number of basic drugs that they can use.

The final objective of Evidence Based Medicine is to produce a level playing field for all types of medicine. It is also to drive allopathic doctors out of the treatment of symptoms, rather than serious, life threatening pathological diseases. You will hear doctors complaining about that because they like treating symptoms and being the monopoly in health. It is going to open up symptomatic treatment to alternative medicine and let herbalists fight with acupuncturists, Shiatsu massage and Reiki therapists.

In serious diseases, you are going to have to compete on a level playing field with medicine too. Patient satisfaction is unimportant when it comes to life and death. They want evidence. Medicine has discovered that many of its treatments and practices were based on wishful thinking, myths, traditions and 'scientific' theories that just did not work in real life. Modern medicine was based on a myth of high technology and the more aggressive the treatment the better and that myth has been tested and found untrue. It has had to be abandoned.

Herbalist rely on an unfounded belief for their custom, that all herbal medicine is natural and so it has not side effects. That is what the public thinks and why most of them go to herbalists. That will be tested because this is life and death. You may have to admit to therapies not working and that have allowed patients to die when better treatment was available that would have saved those lives. You may find that, unbeknownst to you, one in a thousand patients on a herbal treatment may be dropping dead and that nobody noticed because it only happened occasionally, once in the lifetime of every herbalist. There was always an excuse. That is what medicine found. And they had to admit to killing patients on the basis of myth rather than evidence for change to occur. Institutions have been set up to examine every problem and every therapy in medicine with multi-disciplinary criticism.

Hospitals are dangerous and only to be used in the last resort.
Specialist referrals are dangerous and only to be used in the last resort. Investigations are dangerous and to only be used in the last resort.
Surgery is dangerous and only to be used in the last resort.
Pharmaceuticals are dangerous and only to be used in the last resort.

Bed rest and the avoidance of exercise kill and put people in wheelchairs. The best thing to do with a fever is to let the patient sweat it out without treating it. The best answer to long term pain is the physical treatments of muscles and all of those patients must be any profession that exists to put chemicals, synthetic or natural, into the body.

I can understand why you would not want that process applied to herbology. You have an awful lot to lose.

It seems that osteopathy, chiropractors, physical therapists, dieticians, acupuncturists, cognitive behavioural therapists and the like have more confidence in what they do, that they are actually on a par, if not better than allopathic medicine in what they do. They are agreeing to the collection of data. And the government is agreeing with them. For f**k's sake! Government money is paying for relaxation classes, aerobics classes and Tai Chi instructors to reduce the money that traditionally went to the pharmaceutical industry!

I have worked in service design. There is a great deal of resistance from doctors and patients to these cultural changes. The government is working against these traditions that damaged health and restricted the market, guaranteeing the allopathic monopoly. Cultural changes are slow because minds have been controlled. Certain groups, such as the psychiatrists are clinging to a neuro chemical model because that is all that they know. So are orthopaedic surgeons.

The only way to beat the allopathic model of health is to provide high quality evidence against it, for better methods of treatment where they are available. Sooner or later, even the professional bodies of medicine are forced to acknowledge that evidence.

I promise you that I know the system and I am on your side. The only way to beat this system is to be in it, know its rules and use them to your advantage. Modern medicine is trialling your most effective and important treatments and they will take them off you if you try to resist. Pharmaceutical giants will take all herbal health care unless you do something about it from within the system.

I value healthcare diversity. I also value therapies that work and that are good for patient health.

I am trying very hard to help you here by advising you on how to play a system that is going to win...

[futurestar]

www.livegreenliveclean.org for more information guys:)

[thegatherer]

Definitely, the US, Canadian and Swiss Governments are under the complete control of the pharmaceutical and other corporate industries. Certainly, the modern US government is under the control of extremely evil powers, worse than you could ever imagine. They are the machines from the matrix, farming humans for their energy and those beings are trying to take over the world. but they are not machines but extraterrestrial intelligences from the fourth dimension, the astral plane where you go when you sleep.
Do not worry that they are Luciferians. They are not. They are dealing with something vastly worse. They are not Illuminati, Sun worshipers, that follow the light. The Bavarian Illuminati were a benign but insignificant bunch of well meaning intellectuals and political reformers that believed in the ideals of the Age of Enlightenment and borrowed a few Sun symbols that they barely understood. The early presidents followed a similar doctrine of what most modern humans would consider goodness. Most Masons would follow too if they really knew the issues.
The evil of the current administration and the corporations hides behind those symbols and that name. They worship the night, the darkness of the night and the worst demons you can imagine.
They are the shepherds who protect their sheep to f**k them, milk them, fleece them, sell their children and eat them. And the stupid sheeple feel safe and cared for. They never think of the cost of this protection.

Think of the UK Government as wily wolves. Yes, they eat sheep. They are not their friends but they are the true enemy of the shepherd. They want to kill all the shepherds so that the sheep run free and they can take what they want, the lame and the slow.

Sadly, the sheep think the shepherd is their friend and protector and the wolf is their enemy. They want all that the shepherd offers them, the comforts, the pretense of safety, the soft life and weak dependence. They are not listening to the wolf that wants to bring their freedom. So the wolf has to chose trickery and deceit to free the sheep from the shepherd and force them to fend for themselves in the wild. And they have to trick the shepherd to, to manipulate him and stab him behind his back so that the sheep do not notice that they are enemies of their saviour and protector.

It is a powerful metaphor for what is happening.

You have got about as far as working out that the shepherd eats sheep too but to you, that makes the wolf and the shepherd equal, except for the shepherd offers you the soft life. You have not worked out the difference between what the shepherd is offering and what the wolf offers you because you are too used to the shepherd. You certainly have not worked out the wily wolf's game and disguises.

And you have not yet worked out that you cannot have your cake and eat it. You want everything that the shepherd offers, the protection and soft life but without the costs that the shepherd demands for that. You even want individual attention from the shepherd so that you do not have to be a part of the flock but you can do your own thing all day without consequence. You want freedom and protection and without the existence of the wolf.

It is not quite accurate but it is very close to it. Humans are the bottom of the food pyramid in the astral world.

I am about as highly trained as anybody could be in the British 'Illuminati', who again are not but they do practice some very heavy magic and deal with beings in the astral. I was introduced to these beings in a very special school where I was chosen out as being one of the future 'Illuminati' elite. I have been a health service manager and an NHS doctor. I choose to work here without license here to avoid complications under these laws but I think that I could have got away with what I do in the UK if I had been careful with how I expressed it and bent the truth a little.

Certainly, I could and did use almost all kinds of alternative therapies in the UK but there is a strange law that states that a GP is responsible for anybody that they refer a patient too. A GP is responsible if the lab gets test results mixed up. They are responsible if a consultant makes a mistake. They are also responsible if an alternative therapist that they have recommended makes a mistake. With inadequate professional registration in many specialties outside of medicine, that becomes a problem and you end up telling patients to look in the phone book.

The only complete blockage to alternative practice in the NHS was time. My treatments are so holistic that my average therapy time is 4 hours. It does not allow time for what I do here, which includes acupuncture, energy work, dietary work, postural work, spiritual guidance, herbology, just about any mainstream western alternative medicine or psychology and going right outside of the mainstream to the reversal of witchcraft and full blown exorcisms of demons.

I could actually have practiced any of those things under the GP contract and the only problems would have been time and what my patients thought of those practices.

There is very little about what doctors cannot do. They are allowed to do anything. What they must do is what has been proven by the evidence. What they must not do is anything, which mainly applies to pharmaceuticals and surgery, that has been proven to be excessively dangerous. Where you hear of doctors complaining about government controls, it applies only to pharmaceuticals and it is usually because they are not allowed to use them.

The UK government is not controlled by the pharmaceuticals. It takes what it can, only the most effective drugs and at the lowest prices. Half the drugs that are available in other countries are not licensed in the UK. Side effects are taken extremely seriously and the Nanny State attitude prevents patient choice in drugs that, for instance, treat baldness but cause cancer. It limits the contact with the pharmaceutical companies as much as possible to prevent brainwashing. It is transferring a large part of primary care responsibility to nurses as the first line because they have less pharmaceutical brainwashing and a very limited number of basic drugs that they can use.

The final objective of Evidence Based Medicine is to produce a level playing field for all types of medicine. It is also to drive allopathic doctors out of the treatment of symptoms, rather than serious, life threatening pathological diseases. You will hear doctors complaining about that because they like treating symptoms and being the monopoly in health. It is going to open up symptomatic treatment to alternative medicine and let herbalists fight with acupuncturists, Shiatsu massage and Reiki therapists.

In serious diseases, you are going to have to compete on a level playing field with medicine too. Patient satisfaction is unimportant when it comes to life and death. They want evidence. Medicine has discovered that many of its treatments and practices were based on wishful thinking, myths, traditions and 'scientific' theories that just did not work in real life. Modern medicine was based on a myth of high technology and the more aggressive the treatment the better and that myth has been tested and found untrue. It has had to be abandoned.

Herbalist rely on an unfounded belief for their custom, that all herbal medicine is natural and so it has not side effects. That is what the public thinks and why most of them go to herbalists. That will be tested because this is life and death. You may have to admit to therapies not working and that have allowed patients to die when better treatment was available that would have saved those lives. You may find that, unbeknownst to you, one in a thousand patients on a herbal treatment may be dropping dead and that nobody noticed because it only happened occasionally, once in the lifetime of every herbalist. There was always an excuse. That is what medicine found. And they had to admit to killing patients on the basis of myth rather than evidence for change to occur. Institutions have been set up to examine every problem and every therapy in medicine with multi-disciplinary criticism.

Hospitals are dangerous and only to be used in the last resort.
Specialist referrals are dangerous and only to be used in the last resort. Investigations are dangerous and to only be used in the last resort.
Surgery is dangerous and only to be used in the last resort.
Pharmaceuticals are dangerous and only to be used in the last resort.

Bed rest and the avoidance of exercise kill and put people in wheelchairs. The best thing to do with a fever is to let the patient sweat it out without treating it. The best answer to long term pain is the physical treatments of muscles and all of those patients must be any profession that exists to put chemicals, synthetic or natural, into the body.

I can understand why you would not want that process applied to herbology. You have an awful lot to lose.

It seems that osteopathy, chiropractors, physical therapists, dieticians, acupuncturists, cognitive behavioural therapists and the like have more confidence in what they do, that they are actually on a par, if not better than allopathic medicine in what they do. They are agreeing to the collection of data. And the government is agreeing with them. For f**k's sake! Government money is paying for relaxation classes, aerobics classes and Tai Chi instructors to reduce the money that traditionally went to the pharmaceutical industry!

I have worked in service design. There is a great deal of resistance from doctors and patients to these cultural changes. The government is working against these traditions that damaged health and restricted the market, guaranteeing the allopathic monopoly. Cultural changes are slow because minds have been controlled. Certain groups, such as the psychiatrists are clinging to a neuro chemical model because that is all that they know. So are orthopaedic surgeons.

The only way to beat the allopathic model of health is to provide high quality evidence against it, for better methods of treatment where they are available. Sooner or later, even the professional bodies of medicine are forced to acknowledge that evidence.

I promise you that I know the system and I am on your side. The only way to beat this system is to be in it, know its rules and use them to your advantage. Modern medicine is trialling your most effective and important treatments and they will take them off you if you try to resist. Pharmaceutical giants will take all herbal health care unless you do something about it from within the system.

I value healthcare diversity. I also value therapies that work and that are good for patient health.

I am trying very hard to help you here by advising you on how to play a system that is going to win...

Thankyou for the thorough and interesting reply. Unfortunately I'm busy the next few days and dont have time to respond but I will next week. All the best.:)

[pipsicle]

Guys, does anyone know of a good online leaflet about codex alimentarius that can be printed out quickly? We need to get out there into towns and hand these leaflets out.

My friend wrote to our MP. It may be a necessary measure for cover, but the MP just wrote back a generic reply covering the details of the "consultation" process. It never addressed the fundamental question of assault on freedom.

We need numbers. We need the situtation where hundreds of people are writing to each MP, in greater magnitude than they can brush off.