How SPECIFICALLY Will We Win?

[zedd]

I'm just curious. All I ever see any time someone seems to get some publicity or success and they have a positive message is that they are part of the conspiracy. Ron Paul seems to be the most recent example of this but people like Alex Jones and the guys who made Loose Change suffer the same accusations. People are awaking up...we create our own reality...yet when something positive seems to happen it is part of the conspiracy.

All I ever hear is: People are waking up. The change is coming.

Bullshit. Most people who say this clearly don't believe it. Their words betray this fact.

So, here is your chance to explain how we will end up winning and to do so very specifically. None of this mumbo jumbo crap that may or may not even work. No regurgitating what you heard somewhere. No bumper sticker slogans. All I want is for you to lay out how exactly the people will overcome the elite without anyone leading us or representing us in the public domain.

PS - Please think about how ridiculous all this talk of reptoids is. Scary music and changing the hues in the video does not make people reptoids. It makes the person who created the video dishonest at best.

[dinachick]

According to the Agenda we should already have had a third world war started, and the masses are already supposed to have been rounded up, and many many hundreds of thousands were supposed to have died off from phase 2 of the chemtrail program. Phase 1 was weakening of the liver, spleen and lungs and general immune system by chemtrails. ie SARS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome etc. Do you see this happening now, or anytime in the near future? No, and it will never be carried out regardless of what Alex Jones' Endgame movie stated.

Suitcase nukes and so called cell towers, underground base shenanigans and negative energy portals all require DOR energy ( deadly orgone energy ). Many many people have turned the DOR into POR (Positive Orgone Energy) by simple organic tactical field pieces known as orgonite. A dollar a piece towerbuster busts the millions of dollars cell tower, and this works on the etheric level, in the 4th dimension, not the third. Unless you can see the energy fields, you may not notice how this works. An earthpipe shuts down an underground base, as do HHG's ( holy hand grenades) correct a negative spinning vortex/portal. Portals allow off-world entry and these can be shut with orgonite.
The dolphins and whales are carrying the orgonite thrown offshore to the undersea haarp arrays to bust them and are consciously cooperating with us to do this.

It's all about changing the energy field as these parasites and their equipement all require the dead negative energy to operate, and because they have been unsuccessful so far, they are not going to win, and they know it. They are losing and we will still see some shit hit the fan so to speak before they are finished. Watch out for Hillary. (Sorry Zedd, we can't avoid Reptoids just because they seem so foreign to you. I don't have proof and have never seen one in his/her true suit but I do believe they exist because those beings running the show have no empathy or conscience. It is beyond their understanding to know about oneness and love of all and all that jazz, even though they are brilliant. The darkness doesn't eat the little candle flame in a room, the little candle lights up the dark room, so that to me is love ALWAYS will win, eventually.

I believe we have some off world help in the fact that the orgonite information was made available in the first place, and that the people ( besides Wilhelm Reich ) who helped to get this grassroots etheric fight in motion are still alive despite numerous attempts.

[bj and the bear]

I'm just curious. All I ever see any time someone seems to get some publicity or success and they have a positive message is that they are part of the conspiracy. Ron Paul seems to be the most recent example of this but people like Alex Jones and the guys who made Loose Change suffer the same accusations. People are awaking up...we create our own reality...yet when something positive seems to happen it is part of the conspiracy.

All I ever hear is: People are waking up. The change is coming.

Bullshit. Most people who say this clearly don't believe it. Their words betray this fact.

So, here is your chance to explain how we will end up winning and to do so very specifically. None of this mumbo jumbo crap that may or may not even work. No regurgitating what you heard somewhere. No bumper sticker slogans. All I want is for you to lay out how exactly the people will overcome the elite without anyone leading us or representing us in the public domain.

PS - Please think about how ridiculous all this talk of reptoids is. Scary music and changing the hues in the video does not make people reptoids. It makes the person who created the video dishonest at best.

At the moment I agree with zedd, it ain't happening... All this talk of raised conciousness happening around the globe is crap...... The only talk of people who are raising their vibration is the lmited few who hang around in small groups and don't talk to outsiders....

And please......... don't label me disinfo.. I've done the books and agree with everything the man says....

Disillusionment becomes more and more..........

Say for example: You think I'm real, how would you know that I haven't posted on here before as someone else. You wouldn't....... and you don't, you've only got me to believe in me but you haven't met me....... Like so many of the people who post on this site..... The ones who don't meet up I mean.......... For the get togethers.......

What............, a lot of this shit is written by people who still are playing Dungeons and Dragons..... yeah, I played it too, but gave it up nearly twenty years ago............

BJ out.............

[startzpe]

I'm going to assume you mean changing things with information.

Specifically though...

I do believe there are allot more people aware of the problems that we face now, and in much greater context than before.

If you are talking about ending this without leaders, I believe the truth about elite pedophile rings has not been exposed enough at all. It's not even that hard. I've seen some of the most convincing evidence from mainstream sources. You just have to connect the dots, it all goes back to the same people.

I'm getting mad just thinking about it again. I think public outrage from exposing that alone could end the NWO,

http://www.pehi.eu/dutroux/Belgian_X_dossiers_of_the_Dutroux_affair.htm

----
Another thing I would like to see more info out about some really remarkable
medical breakthroughs (ie the Beck Protocol) getting more info out on that technology would certainly be beneficial to humanity.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3879823462993133294&q=bob+beck&total=437&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

[king]

I'm just curious. All I ever see any time someone seems to get some publicity or success and they have a positive message is that they are part of the conspiracy.



i noticed this too

Ron Paul seems to be the most recent example of this

Ron looks like a good, courageous and honest man.


but people like Alex Jones and the guys who made Loose Change suffer the same accusations. People are awaking up...we create our own reality...yet when something positive seems to happen it is part of the conspiracy.

I must admit that i am guilty of that as well. I should have never listened to what someone had to say if AJ and others are honest or not. I should just take what i feel is true/valid and disregard the rest.
I think, one of the problems that we have nowadays that conspiracy is in blatantly open, in-your-face type of a deal, or what H.G. Wells would call "open conspiracy" and we simply cannot believe that it is all in open air now, so we look for strings and gears that are attached to it. yet, in actuality we are the ones attaching new strings and adding our own gears and therefore we have a mess. we do not even know whom to trust anymore. and, even is some of us know that evil is within each of us and that this is what we have to conquer, our own selves-- we still keep pointing finger at others.

I think that this is the level that i am personally stuck at this time, and i would love to be able to transcend it.
sometimes i feel i am succeeding, but next day i am on my old track again, although it seems to be getting better lately.

so, i think that in our minds it is easier to call someone disinfo than to face the fact that those people are just human, just like we are. they do have their own egos, their own beliefs, they own visions of what the world should be and of course their own shortcomings. what concerns some conspiracy researcher it may not concern you or me, yet either of us may judge conspiracy researcher(s) based on what we think he should be/is/is not talking about. this is ego talk, yes, our own egos who think they would know better, only if they were in same position as the resercher.

and, you are right -- when something positive does happen we are in disbelief, belittling such efforts or those people that have made those efforts. even though that is how every change has to start, as a small change, first very slow, appearing insignificant and then it accelerates to a speed and power of an avalanche. but, we fail to see that. we expect someone to just "unleashes it all" and fix things immediately.

or, we expect those people who are not as aware of conspiracy as we are to accept all that we tell them, immediately, now, pronto, everything that took us many years to research -- we basically want them to just believe what we are telling them. we fail to think logically that if you just unleash 'all of it' on those who are still mostly asleep -- they will either run away, thinking we are dangerous lunatics or they will simply punch us in the face.
we fail to remember that a few years back we were exactly like those that we are trying to awaken now.

what would we have done if years ago, during our time of tranquility and bliss someone came to us ans said: "world is ending" or "evil shapeshifting reptilians rule the earth" or "they are putting poisons in vaccines" and much more -- all of it delivered in one "mother of all conspiracies" video, one book one package that covers all from that Jesus did not exist, Catholics worship Fish God, British are the 13th lost tribe, Queen is a reptilian, planet X will show up one day and then reptilians will eat us alive. Not to mention other stuff like illuminati, depopulation agenda, murder by medicine... and rest.

and then, the advertising part
Buy berkey water filters... or buy chemtrail detox... or radiation detox.... or microwave resistant tinfoil hat....
<eyeballs rolling>

yes, that approach sounds stupid, and crazy, doesn't it?


All I ever hear is: People are waking up. The change is coming.

personaly, i think that awakening, mass awakening is not happening and it will never happen.
I do not subscribe anylonger that a non-catastrophic cosmic event can bring such change. the only way this "mass awakening" can happen is if the shit hits the fan.

call me crazy, but in last half year or so i begin to be more convinced that
A: a catastrophic event will have to happen either way. it could be nature's or man's hand, but results would be the same -- we would be forced to change,m we will be forced to unify, to drop our old ways as we will be dependent on each other.
B: awakening as Icke and others were prophesising is very unlikely. because, how do you change those who are happy with their toys, their gizmos, their "anything goes, anything is ok" life philosophy? that is why no one wants to hear about world manipulation, about dead kids in Iraq, about DU ammunition, about nuclear testing that poisons the air. heck, parents do not even want to know about deadly vaccines that they will be giving their children.
this tells us that humanity is in mental stupor. you cannot awaken those people without kicking their buts really good, letting them experience what they have allowed their governments to inflict on others.





Bullshit. Most people who say this clearly don't believe it. Their words betray this fact.

yap, an i can tell when 'repeaters' are just repeating what they herd/read somewhere.

So, here is your chance to explain how we will end up winning and to do so very specifically. None of this mumbo jumbo crap that may or may not even work. No regurgitating what you heard somewhere. No bumper sticker slogans. All I want is for you to lay out how exactly the people will overcome the elite without anyone leading us or representing us in the public domain.


IMO, the only way that we can win is by experiencing what we have inflicted on others, and ourselves and then we decide to change.
as long as there is some form of law and order and control (some form of government) the manipulation will have to continue and majority will support their insane government, because to majority government = daddy. but, if shits hits the fan and government is unable to provide emergency services, unable to provide food and water and basic necessities -- very basics for life, then people will feel betrayed and may actually decide to do something for themselves. with that their own power can be regained and they may be given another chance.

PS - Please think about how ridiculous all this talk of reptoids is. Scary music and changing the hues in the video does not make people reptoids. It makes the person who created the video dishonest at best.

yap. it is amazing how many people on this forum believe
in reptoids, just because Icke said that others have told him about reptilians. this must be the biggest joke ever.
yet, those same people run like crazy when you even mention religion.


it is a strange world that we live in, that is for sure.

[graflok]

All I ever hear is: People are waking up. The change is coming.

Bullshit.

I don't know if 'people are waking up' or not. How could I? I can't see
the whole world and I'm not expecting to see a news story about how
'people are waking up to the illuminati NWO agenda' on my TV.

I think that some people are listening to Icke and others and these numbers
may well be increasing but we're still talking about a small percentage when
compared to the whole.

If your standard is that everybody wakes up one day and sees the whole
thing, I don't think that's going to happen.

My own personal opinion is that most people will never wake up but I hope
that a good portion will and the future of our species lies with that group.
I also think there will be considerable turmoil between now and then.

And, that's my opinion of 'how we will win.' The key word there is what is
meant by "we."

[supertzar]

Each person must take responsibility for their contribution to this reality. We need to actively release the victim mentality that is so prevalent, each one of us. When every human being is aware of the virtually unlimited potential we possess as individuals, everything will change. It is probably a waste of time to focus on the millions of issues without focusing on personal development. There are specific ways of doing this.

[cruise4]

I know people are waking up. I'm suprised how many people already know something about 9/11 these days, six months ago they didn't, nor were they as receptive. On top of that I'm personally having odd experiences that are completely outside my 'norm'; this being linked to opening up to energies I think, which a year ago I would have laughed at.

And I can't remember the exact figures but it only takes about 5% of the people to 'win' a revolution, doesn't it. We don't have to wake up the whole world. And further, I think there is an outside energy that will aid our cause.

There is a strong individual component to the situation at present I think. Take personal responsibility. What are you doing??? Still paying your Council Tax? Still part of the system??? I'm not and I'll take the consequences. You?

One other thing... most people detest the government.

[woghd]

Quote:
PS - Please think about how ridiculous all this talk of reptoids is. Scary music and changing the hues in the video does not make people reptoids. It makes the person who created the video dishonest at best.

yap. it is amazing how many people on this forum believe
in reptoids, just because Icke said that others have told him about reptilians. this must be the biggest joke ever.
yet, those same people run like crazy when you even mention religion.


I have always found it fascinating that everyone is aware that the universe is infinitely big, and most people believe that there is life on other planets, and most of the people on earth are religeous and believe in an invisible entity that is all watching and all knowing. You will also find no shortage of people who belive in UFOs, in fact most of the people in this forum will say that they believe in anal-probing grey aliens that even perform sexual crossbreeding with human women.

But, if you say you believe in reptilians, suddenly you're a nut!

Folks, this non-sequiter alone should be enough proof that the masses have been PROGRAMMED about what to believe and what is ridiculous. Think about it. Throw away your television. Stop watching VIEWER PROGRAMMING.

Reptilians are REAL.

Archangel

[mountain]

I have always found it fascinating that everyone is aware that the universe is infinitely big, and most people believe that there is life on other planets, and most of the people on earth are religeous and believe in an invisible entity that is all watching and all knowing. You will also find no shortage of people who belive in UFOs, in fact most of the people in this forum will say that they believe in anal-probing grey aliens that even perform sexual crossbreeding with human women.

But, if you say you believe in reptilians, suddenly you're a nut!

Folks, this non-sequiter alone should be enough proof that the masses have been PROGRAMMED about what to believe and what is ridiculous. Think about it. Throw away your television. Stop watching VIEWER PROGRAMMING.

Reptilians are REAL.

Archangel

i have seen UFOs. I have been inside them, too.

During my research into UFOs as a young child, never came across reptilian references, only greys and Nordic types.

It is simple. They exists, but were very well hidden. A friend of mine had an encounter with a reptile woman about 15 years ago. I laughed because I never heard of any reptilian type beings.

You certainly must read alot and put your own thesis together. There is no winning. Only co-existence.

[king]

Reptilians are REAL.

Archangel

ok, fair enough.
how can you see and talk to one?

[oceanwave]

So, here is your chance to explain how we will end up winning and to do so very specifically.

well, since i am not in a race...

count me out

..but, if you want to win, think faster, speak faster, have money, control the information, live the 'dream' and then you *may* 'win'..don't hold your breath though

hope that helps

;)

[zedd]

I think I should clarify.

I don't think that believing that it is possible that this sort of reptile species exists. What I find a little off-putting is that peopel post and make videos which are not proof of anything but it is taken as though they are. From what I have seen, all we really have for this idea of reptoid people is hearsay and stories passed down. Now, they may or may not be true, but the Bible is also stories that have been passed along so I think the jury should be out and I believe that lumping in the reptilian idea with other, more tangible, conspiracies does no good.

Also, I do agree that more people are becoming aware of what is going on in general. Not necessarily to the extent that they should be but they are at least beyond the point of just scratching the surface. My gripe is that people who advocate awakening tend to shun anything that actually seems like a byproduct of it.

I'm not saying Ron Paul or Alex Jones or anyone else will save us from anything. My argument is basically that we should reamin skeptical of everyone in positions of power and authority, even if they have a great message and seem perfect, but we should not condemn them and label them as the enemy until they have proven themselves to be.

[woghd]

I'm curious what it is that some people find wrong with the shape-shifting videos out there. Some of them are quite good, done with professional equipment in excellent lighting. Not all of them are from Youtube either.

I've seen good video with
1. eyes that change color
2. eyes that change shape
3. eyes that form slits
4. teeth that change shape
5. fangs that grow and retract
6. Mouths that change size and shape
7. Hands that become claw-like
8. fingers that grow to amazing lengths (we call it the finglonger effect)
9. Skin that changes color
10. lumps that form under the skin and sometimes move around
11. scales that form

I'm not even going to get into the bizarre glitches that seem to plague the FOX channel, that look like holographic imaging gone awry. Wierdest glitch in the history of transmitted information and nobody can explain it or recreate it, and it's ONLY on FOX.

There are more videos every day, and for the life of me I can't understand why some people seem to be in total denial about these videos, but then UFO pictures suffer from the same frustrating phenomena, as they are always too blurry for the skeptics, or too clear, and thus are deemed hoaxes...

Too many people dismiss these videos without even looking at them, sad, because while they are NOT proof, they ARE evidence, and deserve closer attention and examination.

Archangel

[octopusrex]

Good topic, good thread.

What do you want to win?

A war?

Peace?

Who are you fighting?

Why?

I like forums like these because I can talk to folks halfway across the world in a relatively safe environment... And I can also re-read the absurdities that came to my head afterwards - to judge my own progress as a thinker.

[joss classey]

blah blah blah *something insightful*

*intelligent joke*

blah blah

*overbearing oversimplified conclusion*

*sarcastic comment*

blah blah

[graflok]

blah blah blah *something insightful*

*intelligent joke*

blah blah

*overbearing oversimplified conclusion*

*sarcastic comment*

blah blah

Post of the week!

[synergy777]

at this moment they can win very easily.

they have our means of communication and resistence in their control. yes we as individuals should concentrate on personal devlopment/contribution like super said, but without a global and professional resistence, we are already defeated.

this is hard to take but ultimately true. if they disconnected the net, controlled/shut down media. if they started to impose even more draconian measures, round ups, camps, curfews etc, realistically what could we do?

what are our common goals, strategy, wheres our organisation, manifesto, wheres our funding, leaders. whether we like or not, this epoch requires an international, interdimensional, interdependent, inclusive, integrated and intelligent effort, we are nowhere near that. what we have is a sunday league/pub team versus an all star international team.

as much as we can break the shackles of mental slavery, ego, promote positive thought/energy, a realistic analysis produces a very different situation than the one using the infinite love spectacles.

i think the most depressing thing is not the current situation of the world, the future challenges, as these we can overcome. its the complete lack of resources/organisation we have. it to me is an absolute disgrace. we humans really have lost the use of our minds, spirit and have forsaken responsibility.

we are banking on divine interventions or the power of good intentions, neither are worth trusting/relying on. as the weak nature of the masses will be even more weaker once the economic angle factors in. if people in times of wealth have done anything to have an easy life, in times of hardship, those 30 pieces of silver will be even more attractive.

personally i will do whatever i can, but thats the idealist. the realist in me sees a very cold, defeated, weak world, in which the masses/resistence will crumble with ease once the going gets tough.

ok awareness is increasing, but its miniscule, and located in the fringes of society, the cyber, new agers etc. i think once we adopt a more serious realistic approach, we will see the true scope of the situation and the complete lack of our organisation/preparation.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Ladies & Gentlemen, Zedd, Cordial Felicitations:

Currently, 2007 CE, on Planet Earth, there are approximately 6,000,000,000 (6 Billion) Humans, give or take a coupla Billion.

Think of the Human Race (we) as a 'Choir'.

The 'Choir' is currently 'Equipped' with Millions of different 'Sheets of Music'.

The 'Conductors' of the 'Choir', of which there are many thousands, call upon the People to 'Sing', and the result is 'Cacophony'.

It's Science! :)

The Goal: not a New World Order, But a New Universe Order. Humans tend to think 'small'.

All Humans will be 'Equipped' with the same 'Sheet of Music', thus, when: 'Called Upon to Sing', 'Harmony' shall be the result.

The New Universe Order

Until each and everyone of us is 'Equipped' with the 'New Universe Order Sheet Music', 'Cacophony' shall remain the 'Rule' of the 'Day'. IMO.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

[thorleyart]

Who knows what's going to happen? lets just wait and see eh?

Things are picking up, the revolution will be televised - on YouTube

[lydia78]

Each person must take responsibility for their contribution to this reality. We need to actively release the victim mentality that is so prevalent, each one of us. When every human being is aware of the virtually unlimited potential we possess as individuals, everything will change. It is probably a waste of time to focus on the millions of issues without focusing on personal development. There are specific ways of doing this.

well said..if we individually do the inner work the outer landscape changes too..but until the hearts and minds of man are unified, we remain in the prison.

[cf24]

well said..if we individually do the inner work the outer landscape changes too..but until the hearts and minds of man are unified, we remain in the prison.

Too true Lyd, pity that so many people insist on fighting on the outside. May as well bang ya head against a wall.....

[fremmenwarrior]

zedd, I admire your direct approach on this topic. This is a difficult question for many people to answer - well, without them having to enter into a long laborious sermon about 'how they see things in the world today...'

I agree with your opening statement: "All I ever hear is: People are waking up. The change is coming. Bullshit. Most people who say this clearly don't believe it. Their words betray this fact."

Yes, that is so true! Today, the vast majority of the sleepers will not willingly put themselves in any situation which is even a little outside of their own personal 'comfort zone' - well, unless they were faced with an imminent 'life or death' situation perhaps; and even then you'd need to insert two large sticks of dynamite up their cornholes to get them moving off their lazy, complacent butts!

There are countless millions of people out there who couldn't give a flying **ck about what's going on in the world today, simply because they are ok NOW. They are comfortable and relatively happy with their lives in this stinking, crime-ridden, corrupt, 'engineered' lunatic asylum system which the elite has created; where, to them, everything is fine, just so long as they get their money (i.e. work in exchange for their labour, or receive their DSS benefits, or get money by criminal / illegal means); as this pays the bills, puts food on the table, runs the car(s), keeps the utilities switched on in their homes - the 'I'm all right Jack and screw everyone else' mentality.

So, quite honestly, I don't think most of the sleepers really give a shit what's happening, or which President is in office, or which political party is in power, provided that these basic standards of living (which people have become so accustomed to today), are maintained. Try switching off the water supply or cut off the food supply and there will be riots in the streets, fighting, bloodshed and murder within a few hours!

I can't find any definite answers to your questions, as I'm wondering what exactly is defined by the term 'the change is coming'?

What is this 'change' that people go on about?
What 'change' do the people who use this phrase, who are calling for change, really want?

If there is a battle to be fought and a victory to be won; then is the battle to gain that victory over the elite to be fought politically? with the formation of a radical new political party with new ideas, and a completely new social ideology?

Or, should the awakened people form some sort of para-military organisation and take the fight for change directly to the elite, using the gun, bullet and bomb? Is that what it will ultimately take to oust them?

Dinachick made the point, that according to the elite agenda "we should already have had a third world war started" - but how can we really know this? unless we have actually 'seen' first-hand the elite's actual agenda with our own eyes? Therefore, it's all just guesswork, hearsay and fear-mongering, really.

It's in the elite's best interests to let the people see just 'the tip of the pyramid' - but to keep the rest of it (the agenda) well hidden, so as to instil FEAR of the unknown, fear of an uncertain future in the hearts and minds of the people and spread anger, frustration, disillusionment and despair.

For me personally, the results of the elite agenda can be seen all around us on our streets today. Things NEVER get better, they just go on getting steadily worse!!

Never before in human history, has society been so utterly broken and fragmented; street gangs, warring neighbours, warring racial and religious communities, all so full of hate, anger and aggression.

Beats me why these angry people always direct all of their pent up frustrations towards one another - instead of directing it all at the government, the politicians and the elite (who pull their strings), who have made society exactly what it is today - crime-ridden streets, a-wash with drugs, gun-toting and knife-wielding criminals, muggers, robbers, drug dealers, pimps and prostitutes on every corner. If CHANGE means sweeping all this shit aside and starting afresh again - then I'm all for it - provided that change isn't just a case of nudging humanity out of the frying pan but into another (different) fire...'

To me, this filthy, crooked, nightmare society the elite have created clearly reflects exactly what is in their dark black hearts of stone, and this is EXACTLY how 'they' want things to be - people suffer terribly, people die - whilst the elite sit back, smoking cigars and getting fat, hidden in the shadows, counting their piles of ill-gotten gold and dollars...

'They' WILL get what they all know IS coming to them... in the end.

[sirjohnthebadji]

Yes, I often worry about this. I find it helpful to remember Carl Jung's story about the rainmaker. Here's a version -

THE RAINMAKER

There was a great drought where the missionary Richard Wilhelm lived in China. There had not been a drop of rain and the situation became catastrophic. The Catholics made processions, the Protestants made prayers, and the Chinese burned joss sticks and shot off guns to frighten away the demons of the drought, but with no result. Finally the Chinese said: We will fetch the rain maker. And from another province, a dried up old man appeared. The only thing he asked for was a quiet little house somewhere, and there he locked himself in for three days. On the fourth day clouds gathered and there was a great snowstorm at the time of the year when no snow was expected, an unusual amount, and the town was so full of rumours about the wonderful rain maker that Wilhelm went to ask the man how he did it.

In true European fashion he said: "They call you the rain maker, will you tell me how you made the snow?" And the little Chinaman said: "I did not make the snow, I am not responsible." "But what have you done these three days?" "Oh, I can explain that. I come from another country where things are in order. Here they are out of order, they are not as they should be by the ordnance of heaven. Therefore the whole country is not in Tao, and I am also not in the natural order of things because I am in a disordered country. So I had to wait three days until I was back in Tao, and then naturally the rain came."

[woghd]

Sadly, I don't know if we CAN win.

Many of the warnings that we are bandying about are not new. We complain that our rational arguments are ignored, yet some of them have been ignored for a very long time. In fact, the BULK of our warnings come from very ancient texts. Various civilizations, various peoples, have all tried to warn us of the coming evil and the coming struggle, and sadly, I fear we have ignored the evil for too long already, that some of the "signs" have come and gone, and on this 12,000 year cycle, on this galactic rotation, on this AGE, we are already screwed. I hope not, but I just see so many negative signs.

If we are to win. The sheeple need to WAKE UP RIGHT NOW! We are already way behind schedule, and have a HELL of a lot of catching up to do! It is only four freaking years to 2012, and people are only JUST NOW starting to get it. And sadly, even among those who understand the motives of the NWO and how they work, who understand the lengths they are able to go through, STILL ALLOW THEM TO KEEP US DIVIDED AND SEPARATED!!

Fighting amongst ourselves for the last 11,996 years...why stop now?

There's a small chance to make up for this lost time, but it would take an immediate and total paradym shift in the TOTAL population.

Archangel

[elysiumfire]

Hi There,

I quite agree with the originality of the question 'How SPECIFICALLY Will We Win?', and add, WHAT will we win? Do we have something of a idea or concept that we want to attain, and why is it better than other concepts and ideas? What criteria are we basing a 'win' on? What if I don't want what you seek to come about? Is what I seek, or would want to see, any less of a good idea than what you want? Is it not all 'relative' in the end analysis?

I think 'fremmenwarrior's' post highlights the perrenial problems succinctly...many people do not give a shit! They are too wrapped up in sustaining what little they have, and in being able to maintain earning that little recompense for their daily labours. This perceived 'ostrich' mentality is down to that 'narcotic of the conscience'...apathy. It is quite hard to galvanise a person submerged in apathy into a proactive stance against that which provides them with it...for apathy is a 'effect' of habituation...the acceptance to very slow, incremental changes that are ultimately detrimental to the person (the so-called 'frog' in water slowly brought to boil syndrome).

Of course, to counteract apathy, it is necessary to first educate, to take the blinders or blinkers away from the covered minds, and I suppose, that this is the idea that Icke is really seeking to do. Yet, in doing this, the education must consist of 'truth' and 'fact' and 'evidence'. It must not consist of absurdities, lies, fabrications, or unfounded interpretations.

If people want to see reptiles and aliens as having something to do with the future of mankind, then fair enough, that is their entitlement, I personally do not follow such a view, and perceive it as being wholly unhelpful to the real education of that of exposing the machinations of government administrations and elitist groups. Our problems are not 'extra-terrestrial', but simply 'terrestrial', and that we are all wittingly and/or un-wittingly conforming to some form of 'hive' ideology for the benefit of the few over the many.

If there is something to 'win', then let it be equality and conscientious fraternity for all, and the way to that is to educate for the awakening of conscience in all. Icke presents compelling arguments in areas of his discussions, but in others, he presents absurdities whose only effect is to deepen the ostrich mentality, and to darken the shadow of apathy.

Societies are crumbling because cherished ideologies are being taken or torn down by hypocritical actions of elected leaders and being replaced with draconian and feral laws antithetic to what we perceive in our own conscience...we 'know' something is wrong, we can both intuit and feel it daily, but let us not dress the vagueness of our ill-at-ease feelings in reptillian scales or large eye grey suits, lets see the issue for what it really is...international and national corruption on a vast scale. That is all it is...period!

Best wishes

[woghd]

Societies are crumbling because cherished ideologies are being taken or torn down by hypocritical actions of elected leaders and being replaced with draconian and feral laws antithetic to what we perceive in our own conscience...Best wishes

(interesting choice of words there...)

GREAT FIRST POST, Welcome to the ICKE forums!

Archangel

[fremmenwarrior]

woghd and elysiumfire - excellent posts! Spot on.

Society is crumbling and in moral meltdown; the world is dying; and yet those whom I once had a lot of respect for are still talking about 'reptilians' and invasion / infiltration by extra-terrestrials - WTF?

Isn't about time for people TO GET REAL!! to get their heads out of the clouds, and to turn away from this ridiculous (elite propagated) 'X-files' / 'they are amongst us' mentality. It's time for humanity to get back to the reality of OUR dire situation; time to get back to the 'grass roots' of ALL the problems we ALL face today.

People will normally get attacked on here for using words like "sin", "evil" and "the ancient texts" etc., but whatever people say or believe (and would have others believe), at the end of the day, isn't this really ALL about the struggle between the forces of light / and the forces of darkness? - the fight between good and evil (or God and the devil, call it what you will), on ALL levels and exactly as detailed in many of the ancient texts?

What is going on today (and NOT just with the 'sheeple'), but with EVERYONE, is that it's all about people not wanting to be held accountable for their own bad behaviour; and not taking responsibilty for their own wicked, selfish, greedy, immoral / evil actions; and then blaming someone or something else for what THEY have done: 'The system made me do it'... 'The reptilians made me do it... 'he or she made me do it.'

We live in a blame culture now - people continually point the finger of accusation and blame at anyone or anything else - EXCEPT AT THEMSELVES!

Consider this:

Did 'the system' ever make a person mug, rob and murder some poor guy in cold blood on the streets?

Did 'reptilians' ever make someone hold up a store with a gun and beat the cashier over the head with a baseball bat; or a street gang attack and stab to death someone from a rival gang?

Was it 'alien influences' that make people steal, lie, cheat, commit adultery, watch porn, have sex with kids, or with animals? No! No! No! No! No!...

So to me, a lot of this reptilian/alien stuff is all just a load of old 'pass the buck' bullshit - i.e. people behaving really badly towards one another, but always blaming someone else for what they have done!!

Proven when people commit heinous crimes these days, there is an army of social workers, counsellors and shrinks available - not for the victim - but for he or she who committed the damn crime!!

Someone said here that only the threat of something like an E.L.E. extinction level event, such as global volcanic activity, polar/magnetic shift, or an asteroid / huge meteor strike would bring all of humanity together;

then so be it... but when the dust settles, its most likely that 'humanity' will just settle back in its 'old wicked ways' too...

[synergy777]

in order to win, we have to become the change.

in order to win we have to use certain things the elite use.

in order to win we have to become organised, informed, professional, media savvy, articulate etc.

wearing sandals, tye-dye shirts, chanting om, or waving the peace sign only lives up to the stereotype.

look at the masses, observe to learn like einstein said. they are the target consumer. what do they like, respond to.

image is king, soundbites gospel.

me, you, we have to use the techniques which will deliver us the most succesful results.

we need to upgrade, evolve, we need to change aswell. we are not the finished product, enlightened, like we think we are. we have only just started to awake from our slumber, and are still haunted by the desire to return back to our slumber.

just as the masses need to change, so do we.

in fact all of us have ego's, desires for a more comfortable life, cultural/personal prejudices, personal hang ups, fears/guilt, desires, anger etc. we are just like the masses, we are a part of the masses/humanity.

we need to drop the snobbery/shayler/claridad crap and be more humble. arroagance breeds complaceny, complaceny leads to defeat. i detest losing, and in this epoch, defeat is not an option.

to see ourselves as seperate from the masses, well the elite see themselves as seperate. i see us an integral part of the masses.

we have to make huge personal and organisational changes, and are running out of time. we have few resouces and very few credible leaders. we have an uphill battle, ignoring our current state, will not alter anything. it will only make our defeat quicker.

only by being real to ourselves, changing/growing ourselves. then getting organised/serious can we do anything constructive.

[mountain]

in order to win, we have to become the change.

in order to win we have to use certain things the elite use.

in order to win we have to become organised, informed, professional, media savvy, articulate etc.

wearing sandals, tye-dye shirts, chanting om, or waving the peace sign only lives up to the stereotype.

look at the masses, observe to learn like einstein said. they are the target consumer. what do they like, respond to.

image is king, soundbites gospel.

me, you, we have to use the techniques which will deliver us the most succesful results.

we need to upgrade, evolve, we need to change aswell. we are not the finished product, enlightened, like we think we are. we have only just started to awake from our slumber, and are still haunted by the desire to return back to our slumber.

just as the masses need to change, so do we.

in fact all of us have ego's, desires for a more comfortable life, cultural/personal prejudices, personal hang ups, fears/guilt, desires, anger etc. we are just like the masses, we are a part of the masses/humanity.

we need to drop the snobbery/shayler/claridad crap and be more humble. arroagance breeds complaceny, complaceny leads to defeat. i detest losing, and in this epoch, defeat is not an option.

to see ourselves as seperate from the masses, well the elite see themselves as seperate. i see us an integral part of the masses.

we have to make huge personal and organisational changes, and are running out of time. we have few resouces and very few credible leaders. we have an uphill battle, ignoring our current state, will not alter anything. it will only make our defeat quicker.

only by being real to ourselves, changing/growing ourselves. then getting organised/serious can we do anything constructive.


WOW!!!

Excellent! You make it crystal pristine, just like I want it! I LOVE YOU!!:)

[thorleyart]

The real awakening hasn't kicked in yet, it's only just beggining to start.

It's going to be a massive and total change in consciousness which is going to completely reshape the fabric of perception on this planet and of the human race.

How speciffically this is going to be experienced is impossible to know, we will all find out in the following few years...

Chins up guys, don't be so pessimistic.

look at these videos about the evoultion of consciousness and the mayan calendar by Ian Lungold. It's a six hour seminar, which starts off kinda slow, but if you perserve, once he starts explaining the cycles and shifts in consciousness, and talks about how things are dramatically changing and will continue to gain massive speed and momentum in the next few years, it gets very interesting..

Enjoy

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1030536695965417017

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2832986272853534626

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8985944829650939114

[optimus pigpot]

"The result at half-time at Planet Earth Stadium after a thoroughly entertaining first half is Global Illuminati 666, FC Planet Earth 0.......

Global Illuminati captain George Bush The Second, some say Second Coming, scored a hatrick for the reptile visitors after an own goal by the home side just 1 minute into the game.....

The home side FC Planet Earth are currently playing badly and if the game plan doesn't change, it looks to be on for their heaviest defeat yet........

Optimus pigpot reporting for Universal Television in the absence of the old football reporter David Icke."

[synergy777]

optimus, like ye style.

i'd say its istanbul all over again, the nwo being 3 nil up, lol

[optimus pigpot]

Cheers Synergy777, they're coming straight through the back door!!!

[synergy777]

as much as i don't like liverpool, it was a great comeback that final.

old rafa, great tactician.

[optimus pigpot]

Top man Synergy777, Rafa top boy....... Not a Scouser though........ Never mind.....

Crumpets for tea anyone....... mmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Massage ends....... Op out!!!!!!!!

[cafetimes1991]

Bump

[danster82]

we overcome the elite by having integrity for the truth.

People may think that changing this or that out circumstance will defeat the elite such as reforming the money system or whatever sure it needs to be done but it will not create any change unless people change and begin to have integrity for the truth rather than be be perfetic sellouts.

[nightwalker]

Maybe the reptilian thing is taken too literally. Maybe it just denotes those of a certain race or understanding.

Some research in to the lore of dragons, red thread beliefs etc put it in to more context. The reptile (dragon) is found in so many cultures going back thousands of years. Its there for a reason and perhaps is not to be taken too literally.

[gods sun]

when we have g w bush queen obama hillary cilton the lot of them with there heads on sticks in the garden of the white house and me in the presidents chair with a red flag of revolution.

and dont forget to make the queen into a piece of halal meat i aint gonna tell you what they do first drain the blood make a nice black pudding make it look like a sausage stick some eyes on it with her wig and we won lol.

[gods sun]

or the annunaki are gonna rip her a new hole lol do some magic crazy stuff like tucking her inside out then back again.

[nambo]

We dont win, Jesus wins, all we can do is resist and try and wake up as many people as possible so that they resist the wonerfull deception that will be the NWO.

The world is run ultimatly, not by the elites, but thier God Lucifer, why do you think there is so much Satanic imagery around the Elite and thier world?
You cannot defeat Satan, he runs the world, and will do until the battle that will come 3 1/2 years after the NWO.

Read Revelation, its all in there and its been in there for a lot longer than any of us have woken up.

Jesus will win the final battle, not us, all we can do is be on his side, for there are only two sides.

[phemohilia]

We dont win, Jesus wins, all we can do is resist and try and wake up as many people as possible so that they resist the wonerfull deception that will be the NWO.

The world is run ultimatly, not by the elites, but thier God Lucifer, why do you think there is so much Satanic imagery around the Elite and thier world?
You cannot defeat Satan, he runs the world, and will do until the battle that will come 3 1/2 years after the NWO.

Read Revelation, its all in there and its been in there for a lot longer than any of us have woken up.

Jesus will win the final battle, not us, all we can do is be on his side, for there are only two sides.


*heavy sigh*

[sade]

Nightwalker, a lot of people believe that the reptilians Icke talks about means the Jews. (Zionists)
I believe this theory the most, because it's obvious as hell.

I also think (believe) that there are other races out there and some of them maybe reptilians,
but in the end, I believe that this reptilian theory is there just to make us think that we can't win them and that is complete nonsense.
The one's in power have a phone-number and an adress.

Dragons, unicorns and the like manifest in the Astral. They are astral and not earthly beings. (This is where the stories come from)

[drc_]

I'm just curious. All I ever see any time someone seems to get some publicity or success and they have a positive message is that they are part of the conspiracy. Ron Paul seems to be the most recent example of this but people like Alex Jones and the guys who made Loose Change suffer the same accusations. People are awaking up...we create our own reality...yet when something positive seems to happen it is part of the conspiracy.

All I ever hear is: People are waking up. The change is coming.

Bullshit. Most people who say this clearly don't believe it. Their words betray this fact.

So, here is your chance to explain how we will end up winning and to do so very specifically. None of this mumbo jumbo crap that may or may not even work. No regurgitating what you heard somewhere. No bumper sticker slogans. All I want is for you to lay out how exactly the people will overcome the elite without anyone leading us or representing us in the public domain.

PS - Please think about how ridiculous all this talk of reptoids is. Scary music and changing the hues in the video does not make people reptoids. It makes the person who created the video dishonest at best.

Basically I don't think it will/can be done without some serious bloodshed.. I don't have a solution, and I certainly don't know what exactly must be done to achieve planetary freedom. All I know is that it's of vital importance that people understand what they, where they are, where they come from and what they are dealing with. From there it should eventually come naturally...

PS - Please think about the enormous amount of evidence that supports the reptilian theory/stories. I'm not talking vague videos on youtube where you can supposedly see someone shapeshift or where their eyes turn reptilian or whatever.

I'm talking about the massive amounts of texts/legends from very ancient cultures (that were, as we all know, much more advanced than we are) that talk about reptilian hybrids.
The insane amount of reptile symbolism that is used throughout history until today in flags, logo's, etc. Most of which is done by the world's elite.
The fact that we have something that we call an R-Complex in our brain (R being Reptile) which comes down to us not using the full potential of our brain. Think of all the stories that support the fact that our brain works like that now.
Think of what we know of today's reptiles and how their behaviour works. Compare that the behaviour of the world's elite. I say it's exactly the same; Coldblooded murderous behaviour. Survival and staying on top of the foodchain at all cost.

Don't be surprised that if the Illuminati get their job done via Bluebeam etc, that you will see them exposing themselves as being Reptilians.
I think it was Steward Swerdlow that mentioned this among others. They will expose themselves for what they are, only they'll then make us think that they are actually our allies/brothers/gods from ancient times so we'll openly accept them as our leaders.

[mrmoney]

Here is how you win

Go on the Internet, buy 1000 blank DVDs, burn your favorite film to DVD, and post it to people within a 5-mile radius of where you live.

Here is how you don't win

Sit on a message board all day and argue.

[oddblock]

We dont win, Jesus wins, all we can do is resist and try and wake up as many people as possible so that they resist the wonerfull deception that will be the NWO.

The world is run ultimatly, not by the elites, but thier God Lucifer, why do you think there is so much Satanic imagery around the Elite and thier world?
You cannot defeat Satan, he runs the world, and will do until the battle that will come 3 1/2 years after the NWO.

Read Revelation, its all in there and its been in there for a lot longer than any of us have woken up.

Jesus will win the final battle, not us, all we can do is be on his side, for there are only two sides.

So where is he now? Why isn't he here sorting everything out? Is lucifer more powerful? Or does Jesus just want to watch us suffer a bit more before he makes his grand entrance?

[nightwalker]

Nightwalker, a lot of people believe that the reptilians Icke talks about means the Jews. (Zionists)
I believe this theory the most, because it's obvious as hell.

I also think (believe) that there are other races out there and some of them maybe reptilians,
but in the end, I believe that this reptilian theory is there just to make us think that we can't win them and that is complete nonsense.
The one's in power have a phone-number and an adress.

Dragons, unicorns and the like manifest in the Astral. They are astral and not earthly beings. (This is where the stories come from)

Hi Sade

Then you hold a different understanding to mine and I respect that.

In my understanding there is a clear link between dragon lore and the blood of a particular race of beings who are in this realm and also in others. Vampiric lore contains allot of useful stuff on this line of thought.

[nightwalker]

Here is how you win

Go on the Internet, buy 1000 blank DVDs, burn your favorite film to DVD, and post it to people within a 5-mile radius of where you live.

Here is how you don't win

Sit on a message board all day and argue.

You've forgotten those who are actually capable of multi tasking :p

[sade]

Hi Sade

Then you hold a different understanding to mine and I respect that.

In my understanding there is a clear link between dragon lore and the blood of a particular race of beings who are in this realm and also in others. Vampiric lore contains allot of useful stuff on this line of thought.

Beings as in reptilians? Human sacrifices and drinking the victims blood has been done since day one by some humans,
but that doesn't mean there is some supernatural race out there who still does this.
Then again, it's a great theory to scare off people from trying to change anything.

Make the opponent seem unstoppable and the people will believe it.

Also to the starter of this thread; an awakening is happening.
In my local newspaper they've been discussing the bilderberg group and asking whether what they are doing is right + some other interesting conspiracy theories. There's also been a lot of discussions about angels and spirit guides, which in my opinion shows that something is indeed happening.

[nightwalker]

I didn't say anything about a "supernatural" race of beings :)

People tend to stop at the whole drinking blood thing without looking at what is actually underneath it all and the whole subject of consuming blood, reasons etc.

[sade]

Yup, You didn't say that, but that's how a lot of people are viewing these people.
As superheroes with some unimaginable powers which is nonsense.

And the reason for consuming blood is always power .
Blood contains the whole 'being' of a human being and a massive amount of energy.
This of course, if it's being used for magical purposes or for the evoking of some beings
which cannot be done by just any person out there.

[lizzy]

How SPECIFICALLY Will We Win? :confused:

Win what?........it's so throughtly corrupted and controlled.

All one can ever 'win' is their own inner liberation from tptb.

[mrindigo]

I'm just curious. All I ever see any time someone seems to get some publicity or success and they have a positive message is that they are part of the conspiracy. Ron Paul seems to be the most recent example of this but people like Alex Jones and the guys who made Loose Change suffer the same accusations. People are awaking up...we create our own reality...yet when something positive seems to happen it is part of the conspiracy.

All I ever hear is: People are waking up. The change is coming.

Bullshit. Most people who say this clearly don't believe it. Their words betray this fact.

So, here is your chance to explain how we will end up winning and to do so very specifically. None of this mumbo jumbo crap that may or may not even work. No regurgitating what you heard somewhere. No bumper sticker slogans. All I want is for you to lay out how exactly the people will overcome the elite without anyone leading us or representing us in the public domain.

PS - Please think about how ridiculous all this talk of reptoids is. Scary music and changing the hues in the video does not make people reptoids. It makes the person who created the video dishonest at best.

Why do you need this laid out for you if you don't believe a word of it? You've got what you believe to be factual set in your mind, so why ask about it? You're going to believe what you're going to believe, and it's clear that no amount of information from anyone will change that. No one is forcing you to believe any of it. If you think of it all as bullshit, reptilians included, then why waste the time here?

The history, archeology, and quantum physics has all been gone over in terms of the reptilian theory. You choose to focus on people posting Youtube videos as evidence, rather than actually looking at tangible side of it. The reptilian theory goes well beyond a hand full of people watching the BBC/Fox news for eye changes or shape shifts. There are constant references to reptilian humanoids in several cultures. The Mayan, Egyptians, Sumerians, and many others mention them in texts, create images in art, and even focus some of their architecture around them. How these ancient cultures all had similar themes involving reptilians across vast distant lands and oceans is mysterious. Either history is wrong and they had communication, or there's something to it. Had you taken the time to actually research it further, you'd know this.
You're clearly going out of your way to find the biggest faults in it rather than looking at the phenomena from a broader scope. It's good to take notes of any weak point in things, but to focus on one side is foolhardy and closed minded.

All I ever hear is: People are waking up. The change is coming.

Bullshit. Most people who say this clearly don't believe it. Their words betray this fact.


Your perspective of this is bullshit. How exactly does that not portray a belief in their words? Your logic makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever. People don't say/write/type things they don't believe in or have an understanding of. People are more intelligent then you're giving them credit. What's amusing is your choice in words as well. There is nothing factual to that statement at all. In order for that to be factual, there has to be a general consensus met. You're not the consensus.

You can limit your reality to the boring and mundane if it helps you sleep better at night, but don't expect for a second that everyone else wants to live and think like you do. You're entitled to your points of view, and so are others. Don't like that others know there to be a great awakening, and alternate realities which may harbor other humanoid creatures? TOO BAD, deal with it. If it's all silly rubbish, then why did you make this thread? Clearly if it were, you would not have gone out of your way. Deep down you know it to be true and it scares you. :D:D:D:D