the women that deny a father his child

[davelove]

i know of so many cases where the woman denied the father his child, where the father has no recourse and/ access. the courts generally take the womans side. what are your ideas on this subject forummers? id be very interested to know.

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

Women want equal rights.
Fair.

Men want equal rights.
Fair.

But I don't like it if either side trys to make it's self higher than the other.

Women have too many rights in holland as it is.
Did you know, in the country of the Netherlands, even if it's because the woman had cheated on the man, and she wants the divorce, she still gets half of everything that's his?
Ain't that about a bitch!

I blame feminazis and anti-discrimination groups.

[notaslave]

Women want equal rights.
Fair.

Men want equal rights.
Fair.

But I don't like it if either side trys to make it's self higher than the other.

Women have too many rights in holland as it is.
Did you know, in the country of the Netherlands, even if it's because the woman had cheated on the man, and she wants the divorce, she still gets half of everything that's his?
Ain't that about a bitch!

I blame feminazis and anti-discrimination groups.


Women have too many rights?

I'm all for equal rights but I dont think we can ever have too many rights.

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

I was talking about inside the Netherlands.
:rolleyes:

[losangelesgraffiti]

i agree with you. where i live i see alott of single mothers. i always wonder where is the dad. it just accrued to me that the women could have just refused the fathers also and it might not always be the father leaving his kid behind.

[seamus]

Women have too many rights?

I'm all for equal rights but I dont think we can ever have too many rights.

How about when I have the "right" to take your hard-earned money from you because I don't like working?

s

[seamus]

i agree with you. where i live i see alott of single mothers. i always wonder where is the dad. it just accrued to me that the women could have just refused the fathers also and it might not always be the father leaving his kid behind.

One way for a dad to get his child is if the mother is in an "alternative religion". From country to country the definition varies. In france, for example, the YWCA is on their "cult" list.

The YWCA?

s

[anoninnyc]

messed things up for women. i am a woman mind you. things were better when men thought they were in control. now, even with all of women's rights she gets a raw deal. having to work and leave your child in day care. if you even have a child at all. since abortion is legal many men feel like the woman should just terminate. men can get sex from women and don't have to marry. fathers aren't around. i don't know if i really like the feminist revolution. women now have to be a mother and have a career. it seems nice to be able to be a stay at home mom. i am not sexist though, dont care if it is a stay at home dad. but who is raising the children??? now both men and women are forced to work to make ends meet.

[davelove]

isnt there a link between crime in the youth and the lack of paternal influence?? (forget where i read that). actually i know of 1 case where the woman denied the father access and accuses him of abandoment, i have to say i was denied access for a while and you wouldnt believe the pain. its like a bereavement deliberately caused by someone else. thankfully (you wouldnt believe how much) i am in the process of making contact, after exhausting all and every legal avenue. in addition to the previous post about feminism, werent the suffragettes created and funded by the house of rothschild? pretty sure they were, sure it suits the agenda to have the father out of the picture, remember, loyalty to the family is to become a thing of the past (all going to the plan, that is) and the state will take the place of the family unit. thanks for all your replies.

[roxanna]

What is abandoment? It is where a person deliberately leaves behind their responsibility. I for one have a child and upon separtating from my husband was very clear that his access was unlimited. That the end of our relationship or alteration of such had nothing to do with our child. Who belongs to both of us. However and very sadly his visits to her became less and less frequent til finally they stopped all together. Pain is watching your child suffer. No greater pain then that. I to this day will never comprehend how someone can just get up and leave their own child. I probably never will. Recently when the money was available to have the divorce, (its been 5 yrs since he left) he embarressed by his lame fatherhood expressed the desire to see her. What would any of you do? I for one did not want that as what sort of damage will it do her. Still it is on the legal papers he can see her and guess what? Right he hasnt. Also he was offered a sum to a. sign her passport and b. stay away. He took it. Still the that was a private transaction and the lawyer by law had to inform him that he is still in his rights to see the child. Anyone else have a similar experience? As for what anoninnyc and davelove said I agree they are forcing us away from the family unit. The ramifications are obvious and quite frightening indeed. Cheers

[thirdwave]

its very very wrong to stop a parent from seeing his/her child and I have no idea why it happens....

Its only asking for things to get messy as many guys will want to brake the rules to see their child..

it should only happen is a parent has been proven to be violent or unstable around the kid...

it makes me mad when i hear those stories...


for a start what kind of parent would want to prevent there child from seeing their real father?

[davelove]

hi again. in answer to your question about abandonment here is the letter regarding the case i mentioned where she denies access and blames him for the said abandonment.

great discussion. thanks again.

"hi im sorry, ive had problems with the line etc. been a big hassle.
well the least of him seeing her the better, so once a year. i dont have copies of those certificates.

until i get the phone line fixed please email, im sorry, its a hassel i know.

regards. *******"

this was a letter to her solicitor where he explained by law the father MUST have access of at least once a year. can you see my point??

this is only to re-iterate my point about what some women will do in denying the father access to his child.

[roxanna]

Interesting post davelove. I dont see how she is exactly denying access, says there she ceded to once a year. Anyway what youve posted isnt really making your point. Not enough information. There are cases where the father, as in mine fades away on their own accord for whatever reason. If thats the case and if it has been a considerable amount of time lapse then I think a parent (be it the father with custody or the mother) would more then likely and with reason be very concerned for the childs well being if that person where to suddenly make an appearance. In my case the pain my child went through broke my heart. Im just saying maybe if you showed us more facts concerning the case you mention would better prove your point. As it is only leaves to speculation. Also was the "denied" person violent? And ever in front of the child? That deserves looking into. Anyway good thread. Cheers

[davelove]

hey rox. isnt it clear that she didnt want him to see his child? only through legal requirements did she have to concede. it is a sorry state of affairs indeed. and whether the father is a mass murderer, he still has access to his child. imo.

thanks again...

[roxanna]

hey rox. isnt it clear that she didnt want him to see his child? only through legal requirements did she have to concede. it is a sorry state of affairs indeed. and whether the father is a mass murderer, he still has access to his child. imo.

thanks again...

Its clear she didnt want that yes. My question is the why of it. And perhaps if you had evidence that she didnt want him to see the child for spite or something I would see your point. As it is many questions are left unanswered. Was this man violent?, Did he leave and just not return without her having a say in that? Trust me these things can and do happen. Not all are loving parents. And if the case of the above then I say she is just protecting the child from further pain. Not denying anyone anything for spite. In fact if the man were violent and did leave not to return then I vote for her and more importantly her child. Just my opinion. Cheers

[davelove]

thank you.

thats just my point. why is it left to the woman to decide whether or not he has access based on sour grapes? the very same woman has plans to remove the child from the country without his consent or knowledge (unless the authorities are informed of course). surely if this man was voilent there would be restraining orders in place for the childs "protection". but it seems there are none of these :protection" orders in place, just her word that he abandoned her. i feel for the guy, i know what he is going through. and of course i thank you for your input in this matter.

'ITS FOR YOUR PROTECTION" hear that anywhere before anyone??

[roxanna]

Its left to the parent who hasnt left. The one caring for the child. And if the man left and hasnt been seen in some time, why have a restraining order? Seems has voluntarily restrained himself. As for that woman having to stay in a country the rest of her life waiting to see if that man will decide to actually visit his child is insane. She should be thinking of the well being of her child and herself. Proably has wasted alot of valuable time. And if shes seeking a better life in another place good for her. Im sure she can leave contact information for the person in case he decides he suddenly does want to see the child. So its not always about the woman's choice. There are cases where the woman leaves and up to the man to care for a child. In that case he would be the one to decide. Its not a sexist issue.

[davelove]

the same woman spent christmas away from her child. by the way.can you see the picture im painting. its nothing to do with the "protection" of the child. its all to do with the woman in questions control of the matter, thats my argument and problem. wouldnt it be great to hear the mans side of this.

im sorry by the way to hear you are in a similar position.

the saga continues....

[roxanna]

She must have had a good reason. Maybe a friend that would otherwise have spent it alone? Maybe she doesnt see christmas as a valid holiday? Maybe because the child was at an age where wouldnt affect them? Maybe the child in good hands? so she didnt have to worry. You need to elaborate more on your arguments is what Im saying.

[quelyn]

messed things up for women. i am a woman mind you. things were better when men thought they were in control. now, even with all of women's rights she gets a raw deal. having to work and leave your child in day care. if you even have a child at all. since abortion is legal many men feel like the woman should just terminate. men can get sex from women and don't have to marry. fathers aren't around. i don't know if i really like the feminist revolution. women now have to be a mother and have a career. it seems nice to be able to be a stay at home mom. i am not sexist though, dont care if it is a stay at home dad. but who is raising the children??? now both men and women are forced to work to make ends meet.
Unfortunately, in my humble opinion, the children are NOT the focus in many countries! Day care is a great place to molest, mind-control or abuse our children. Everyone is too busy to notice. This is what I have read..............thank goodness DID NOT experience.

[roxanna]

I dislike the feminist movement. The children are the ones who get the worst of it. I personally think that one or the parents (doesnt matter if the father or mother) should be home raising the child or children. I think some factors in deciding whom should be that one is who makes more money. Though possibly more money shit job, so depends. Daycare is shit. And "they" do their best to promote a woman her career etc. the reason is to make her "super mom" and neglect the family. Easier to control us if they get us at an early age. So force the situation and bingo you get a nice crop of little ones to fuck with and mainten in control for the agenda. Cheers. Something for us parents to think on and work around.

[tk__]

I blame feminazis and anti-discrimination groups.

sorry to sound like a bitch, but blame yourself. you voted for the politicians who made the laws. if you didn't vote, then you automatically suport the gov't making decisions for you.

[tk__]

messed things up for women. i am a woman mind you. things were better when men thought they were in control. now, even with all of women's rights she gets a raw deal. having to work and leave your child in day care. if you even have a child at all. since abortion is legal many men feel like the woman should just terminate. men can get sex from women and don't have to marry. fathers aren't around. i don't know if i really like the feminist revolution. women now have to be a mother and have a career. it seems nice to be able to be a stay at home mom. i am not sexist though, dont care if it is a stay at home dad. but who is raising the children??? now both men and women are forced to work to make ends meet.

alex jones interviewed aaron russo, who said women's lib was created & funded by the rockefellers to break up the family, and get woemn working so the gov't can tax them.

a must see vid: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5420753830426590918&q=%22aaron+russo%22+%22alex+jones%22&hl=en

[tonto o_reilly]

People always love to blame someone,or something for anything they don't like. never themselves.
perhaps a deeper look into ones self may provide the answers. But that is far to scary for many

TO

[tk__]

People always love to blame someone,or something for anything they don't like. never themselves.
perhaps a deeper look into ones self may provide the answers. But that is far to scary for many

TO


people also love to have sex, and forget the condom in the heat of the moment.

[tru3]

What is abandoment? It is where a person deliberately leaves behind their responsibility. I for one have a child and upon separtating from my husband was very clear that his access was unlimited. That the end of our relationship or alteration of such had nothing to do with our child. Who belongs to both of us. However and very sadly his visits to her became less and less frequent til finally they stopped all together. Pain is watching your child suffer. No greater pain then that. I to this day will never comprehend how someone can just get up and leave their own child. I probably never will. Recently when the money was available to have the divorce, (its been 5 yrs since he left) he embarressed by his lame fatherhood expressed the desire to see her. What would any of you do? I for one did not want that as what sort of damage will it do her. Still it is on the legal papers he can see her and guess what? Right he hasnt. Also he was offered a sum to a. sign her passport and b. stay away. He took it. Still the that was a private transaction and the lawyer by law had to inform him that he is still in his rights to see the child. Anyone else have a similar experience? As for what anoninnyc and davelove said I agree they are forcing us away from the family unit. The ramifications are obvious and quite frightening indeed. Cheers


i can understand how you feel that way, roxanna. and you can't take away your child's pain and sense of abandonment, that's the hardest part. i had a particularly nasty divorce; early on during the separation, when i went to visit my son, my ex would beat on me, hoping to get me to hit back. i didn't. what kept me on the straight and narrow with respect to visitation (my son was 6 when i left, he's 20 now) was what my dad said to me: "that kid will keep score." i remember him saying that to this day, and always tried to live by it. yet even now, when i missed about 6 visits in 12 years, my kid tends to dwell on the 6 visits.

our pain is our pain. why it should be so is still a mystery to me, sometimes.

[the festival spirit]

Superb thread!

I, a man, Raised my kids. High.

Right then, I am a Single (divorced) father, of two, my own, and two step kids. I only reflect the seperation because they have seperated themsleves.
I do not discriminate, I love them all.

Remember Guilt bites you in the ass when you aint looking.We live in a prejudiced society, in many ways. we all do it. (I try my concious best to not do it) Can you spot the examples

Women want equal rights.
Fair.

Men want equal rights.
Fair.

But I don't like it if either side trys to make it's self higher than the other.

Women have too many rights in holland as it is.
Did you know, in the country of the Netherlands, even if it's because the woman had cheated on the man, and she wants the divorce, she still gets half of everything that's his?Ain't that about a bitch!

I blame feminazis and anti-discrimination groups.

anti discrimination groups? I am anti discrimination, every one deserves the best all the time, all at once.

My Ex was abusive, under domestic violence in the uk come,

Verbal abuse
Mental abuse
Physical abuse
Financial abuse

She was guilty of all of them, now think, do you ever abuse anyone?

I once rang the police with my baby son in my arms while my ex was beating the shit out of me, but I had to hold my composure for about TEN minutes while they put me through etc etc, about an hour later a van pulled up, they knocked on the door and arrested me, put me in the van and drove me 12 miles away and said "don't come back until you are sober"........ my ex was an alcaholic too, so I was ALWAYS Sober because I stayed around to make sure my kids were a,

Loved, b,
Safe c,
Protected d,
Nourished e,
Educated...... by me

I could go on and on.

So what do you think of the uk living in a police state where personal prejudices lead to discrimination against an innocent man, who loved his kids and was forcably seperated from his offspring and others, driven many miles away, It took me two hours running to get home and 'save' my kids.


OK look at that again from a different angle, the police removed the only carer, and left 3 children with an alcaholic, self harming, mental, physical and financial abuser..

Oh give me a day in court, please !

And as soon as I said anything to the police they laughed everytime I said the ex beat me. that was the last time I tried to get the police involved in violent crime, Luckily I have My mind and the law on my side nowadays (Police in the UK MUST investigate every violent crime reported) and they fear to do anything wrong where me and my family are concerned, if they don't they stand out a mile and I tell them that what they are doing is wrong and if they continue I will have their job. Which I quickly explain. I need to tell them what their job is because they do not know, no matter how much training they have had.


What is abandoment? It is where a person deliberately leaves behind their responsibility. I for one have a child and upon separtating from my husband was very clear that his access was unlimited. That the end of our relationship or alteration of such had nothing to do with our child. Who belongs to both of us. However and very sadly his visits to her became less and less frequent til finally they stopped all together. Pain is watching your child suffer. No greater pain then that. I to this day will never comprehend how someone can just get up and leave their own child. I probably never will. Recently when the money was available to have the divorce, (its been 5 yrs since he left) he embarressed by his lame fatherhood expressed the desire to see her. What would any of you do? I for one did not want that as what sort of damage will it do her. Still it is on the legal papers he can see her and guess what? Right he hasnt. Also he was offered a sum to a. sign her passport and b. stay away. He took it. Still the that was a private transaction and the lawyer by law had to inform him that he is still in his rights to see the child. Anyone else have a similar experience? As for what anoninnyc and davelove said I agree they are forcing us away from the family unit. The ramifications are obvious and quite frightening indeed. Cheers

i can understand how you feel that way, roxanna. and you can't take away your child's pain and sense of abandonment, that's the hardest part. i had a particularly nasty divorce; early on during the separation, when i went to visit my son, my ex would beat on me, hoping to get me to hit back. i didn't. what kept me on the straight and narrow with respect to visitation (my son was 6 when i left, he's 20 now) was what my dad said to me: "that kid will keep score." i remember him saying that to this day, and always tried to live by it. yet even now, when i missed about 6 visits in 12 years, my kid tends to dwell on the 6 visits.

our pain is our pain. why it should be so is still a mystery to me, sometimes.

roxanna.........You offered him money to STAY AWAY, who abused who? I could go on .........

"that kid will keep score."

Wise words

messed things up for women. i am a woman mind you. things were better when men thought they were in control. now, even with all of women's rights she gets a raw deal. having to work and leave your child in day care. if you even have a child at all. since abortion is legal many men feel like the woman should just terminate. men can get sex from women and don't have to marry. fathers aren't around. i don't know if i really like the feminist revolution. women now have to be a mother and have a career. it seems nice to be able to be a stay at home mom. i am not sexist though, dont care if it is a stay at home dad. but who is raising the children??? now both men and women are forced to work to make ends meet.

who messed things up for women?
The only thing you have to do is vibrate.
Because you think now both men and women are forced to work to make ends meet. may be why I know you are not looking at it from all the angles.

More wise words

Unfortunately, in my humble opinion, the children are NOT the focus in many countries! Day care is a great place to molest, mind-control or abuse our children. Everyone is too busy to notice. This is what I have read..............thank goodness DID NOT experience.

Interesting post davelove. I dont see how she is exactly denying access, says there she ceded to once a year. Anyway what youve posted isnt really making your point. Not enough information. There are cases where the father, as in mine fades away on their own accord for whatever reason. If thats the case and if it has been a considerable amount of time lapse then I think a parent (be it the father with custody or the mother) would more then likely and with reason be very concerned for the childs well being if that person where to suddenly make an appearance.

In my case the pain my child went through broke my heart.

Im just saying maybe if you showed us more facts concerning the case you mention would better prove your point. As it is only leaves to speculation. Also was the "denied" person violent? And ever in front of the child? That deserves looking into. Anyway good thread. Cheers

Can you tell us if your childs father was abusive?
She ceded, means she gave up her demands of not letting the father see the kid AT ALL

Also A fantastic point is made here.

People always love to blame someone,or something for anything they don't like. never themselves.
perhaps a deeper look into ones self may provide the answers. But that is far to scary for many

TO

Well this is gonna be effective, excellent topic for a thread, I could take the courts to court and win, they are prejudiced and they Discriminate. And I can prove it.

Blame is one of the worst things about this world, blame is based on prejudices, blame IS DISCRIMINATION

[the festival spirit]

If anybody here, male or female has any questions or want to talk please PM me, I don't discriminate, I make choices, If there is an abusive situation we are all responsible.

I hate taking sides but it has to be done sometimes.

[truthcommission]

That the end of our relationship or alteration of such had nothing to do with our child. Who belongs to both of us.
Children are not property that you own. How can one person belong to another? Isn't that what slavery was all about? People false assumed that other living beings were inferior and could be owned and made to do what they were told.

Children are spiritual beings who are really grown-ups who haven't YET grown up. Most adults never really grow up and act out their dramas and have hissy fits like children. Then have the audacity to think that they are more advanced than the children they supposedly care for.

I know that if and when I leave my wife it will be an ordeal. But it is something that needs to be done for the sake of my children. I don't want my children growing up thinking that marriages are built on false love like a house of cards that can come crumbling down at the slightest touch.

We all make mistakes but why should the children suffer? What gives another person or institution the right to decide what is best for our children. No court is going to tell me when I can and cannot see my children. It has got nothing to do with THEM.

They may occasionally succeed in destroying something that is meant to be a sacred joining of two souls but then again if your marriage dissolves so easily it is most likely based on false love anyhow. Most people don't see that until it is OVER.

Real love is all that exists. Everything else REALLY is an illusion. I am only coming to terms with that TRUTH now after years of being a victim of an energy leech. Sometimes I wish I could just take my children away from all the falsity and uncertainty without breaking the law or causing turmoil.

[roxanna222]

By saying the child belongs to us I know she does not but she is in our care. I was trying to say that both he and I regardless of our separation should be in her life. He not me has chosen not to be. He was to me an energy leech, a burden, abusive to me not her etc. so I chose to end the relationship. But I never took her from him. He till this day can see her and hasnt. How in the fuck is that my fault????? All I can do is live my life protect and care for her. I will not spend my life waiting for this fuck to come see her. So yes I will move, its been over 5yrs and nothing. Fuck that. She is her own beautiful spirit. She is not my property nor anyone's but Im here to care for her meanwhile and am happy and honoured to do so.

[tinmenace]

A child is not a possession. I find it interesting how parents screw their kids up. The TV show "Intervention" is about people with addictions, and every episode, without exception, involves a person that had some kind of crappy experience with their parents. The show does not make a point of this, but I've noticed the pattern.

There was a child who's father died, and at age 9, his mother thought it was appropriate to tell him that he was now the man of the house. The pressure was immense and just a few years later he took his first hit of Meth.

Another one's parents got divorced and one parent moved several hours away.

Another one's parents had addiction problems themselves.

Another one's mother was more interested in finding herself a new suitor than in raising her children.

Another one was under immense pressure to maintain the appearance of a gentle "Southern Belle" - something that she didn't feel inside.


Without fail, every one of these tragic figures were directly affected by what their parents did. I'm not suggesting that every person that has a difficult childhood goes on to become an addict, but if I had a child, I would NEVER risk it.

When people make the decision to have children, that child should be in pole position. A parent's responsibility is to nurture and raise that child, and to put their own needs and wants second. If people can't do that, they needn't be having any children.

I think that any time someone forces their will upon another person (especially a child), they are performing a very dark act indeed, especially if it's feeding their own insecurities or need for revenge.

Bottom line, choose VERY carefully the person you decide to procreate with.

[roxanna222]

I agree choose very carefully however that is no guarantee I assure you. I also agree once you choose to have a child that child is number one! Everything else is secondary. Not to say one cant have a life either a person does not stop living after having a child. Its putting your child's needs before your own though and making the journey together and its not just caring for the child's "basic" needs such as food, clothing etc but the whole of their basic needs which involve stimulation, learning, affection etc.

[the festival spirit]

By saying the child belongs to us I know she does not but she is in our care. I was trying to say that both he and I regardless of our separation should be in her life. He not me has chosen not to be. He was to me an energy leech, a burden, abusive to me not her etc. so I chose to end the relationship. But I never took her from him. He till this day can see her and hasnt. How in the fuck is that my fault????? All I can do is live my life protect and care for her. I will not spend my life waiting for this fuck to come see her. So yes I will move, its been over 5yrs and nothing. Fuck that. She is her own beautiful spirit. She is not my property nor anyone's but Im here to care for her meanwhile and am happy and honoured to do so.

What is abandoment? It is where a person deliberately leaves behind their responsibility. I for one have a child and upon separtating from my husband was very clear that his access was unlimited. That the end of our relationship or alteration of such had nothing to do with our child. Who belongs to both of us. However and very sadly his visits to her became less and less frequent til finally they stopped all together. Pain is watching your child suffer. No greater pain then that. I to this day will never comprehend how someone can just get up and leave their own child. I probably never will. Recently when the money was available to have the divorce, (its been 5 yrs since he left) he embarressed by his lame fatherhood expressed the desire to see her. What would any of you do? I for one did not want that as what sort of damage will it do her. Still it is on the legal papers he can see her and guess what? Right he hasnt. Also he was offered a sum to a. sign her passport and b. stay away. He took it. Still the that was a private transaction and the lawyer by law had to inform him that he is still in his rights to see the child. Anyone else have a similar experience? As for what anoninnyc and davelove said I agree they are forcing us away from the family unit. The ramifications are obvious and quite frightening indeed. Cheers

i can understand how you feel that way, roxanna. and you can't take away your child's pain and sense of abandonment, that's the hardest part. i had a particularly nasty divorce; early on during the separation, when i went to visit my son, my ex would beat on me, hoping to get me to hit back. i didn't. what kept me on the straight and narrow with respect to visitation (my son was 6 when i left, he's 20 now) was what my dad said to me: "that kid will keep score." i remember him saying that to this day, and always tried to live by it. yet even now, when i missed about 6 visits in 12 years, my kid tends to dwell on the 6 visits.

our pain is our pain. why it should be so is still a mystery to me, sometimes.

roxanna.........You offered him money to STAY AWAY ON A LEGAL CONTRACT , who abused who? I could go on .........

"that kid will keep score."

Wise words


Would you please answer the questions?

I know you are trying to avoid seeing what hurts and I mean no ill will.

[the festival spirit]

I agree choose very carefully however that is no guarantee I assure you. I also agree once you choose to have a child that child is number one! Everything else is secondary. Not to say one cant have a life either a person does not stop living after having a child. Its putting your child's needs before your own though and making the journey together and its not just caring for the child's "basic" needs such as food, clothing etc but the whole of their basic needs which involve stimulation, learning, affection etc.

Please answer my question above

[the festival spirit]

A child is not a possession. I find it interesting how parents screw their kids up. The TV show "Intervention" is about people with addictions, and every episode, without exception, involves a person that had some kind of crappy experience with their parents. The show does not make a point of this, but I've noticed the pattern.

There was a child who's father died, and at age 9, his mother thought it was appropriate to tell him that he was now the man of the house. The pressure was immense and just a few years later he took his first hit of Meth.

Another one's parents got divorced and one parent moved several hours away.

Another one's parents had addiction problems themselves.

Another one's mother was more interested in finding herself a new suitor than in raising her children.

Another one was under immense pressure to maintain the appearance of a gentle "Southern Belle" - something that she didn't feel inside.


Without fail, every one of these tragic figures were directly affected by what their parents did. I'm not suggesting that every person that has a difficult childhood goes on to become an addict, but if I had a child, I would NEVER risk it.

When people make the decision to have children, that child should be in pole position. A parent's responsibility is to nurture and raise that child, and to put their own needs and wants second. If people can't do that, they needn't be having any children.

I think that any time someone forces their will upon another person (especially a child), they are performing a very dark act indeed, especially if it's feeding their own insecurities or need for revenge.

Bottom line, choose VERY carefully the person you decide to procreate with.


I could not agree more with this, nice to see roxanna agrees and has dceided to change her ways..

[tinmenace]

Ok, let's leave it at then. :)

[roxanna222]

I always have agreed that a child is not ones "possesion", I said belongs to us as a figure of speech not using it in a literal form. I offered him money for two reasons. He never made contact with us the contact came via my lawyers when I was finally able to pay for a divorce (five years later). He said to them he wanted to see her ok but then why did he never contact me before that time?? I suspected that he didnt want to seem a deadbeat dad and look bad in front of strangers. I also feared for my daughters well being in seeing a man that ignored her in every way since she was 1 years old. Also the fact that he abused me in the past. So I offered the sum knowing he accepted. What does that say about me or him? However even though he accepted this money he still has a legal right to see her and the lawyer had to tell him of this. Has he made contact since? No. So? Whats your point? I dont get it.

[roxanna222]

Hey just to say this isnt an argument or any such thing. Festive is asking and Im answering is all. No big deal. I dont have a problem with this at all.

[the festival spirit]

I always have agreed that a child is not ones "possesion", I said belongs to us as a figure of speech not using it in a literal form. I offered him money for two reasons. He never made contact with us the contact came via my lawyers when I was finally able to pay for a divorce (five years later). He said to them he wanted to see her ok but then why did he never contact me before that time?? I suspected that he didnt want to seem a deadbeat dad and look bad in front of strangers. I also feared for my daughters well being in seeing a man that ignored her in every way since she was 1 years old. Also the fact that he abused me in the past. So I offered the sum knowing he accepted. What does that say about me or him? However even though he accepted this money he still has a legal right to see her and the lawyer had to tell him of this. Has he made contact since? No. So? Whats your point? I dont get it.

thank you roxanna, I appreciate your response, I am not arguing, or accusing, except please bear this in mind, I was with a very abusive wife, who many times threatened the wellbeing of my children, in fact almost mentally abused them into abusing themselves, (she almost succeeded but I was there to protect them.) NOW answer me this,

Should I have walked away from that marriage and left my children with this abusive woman who inflicted legally (ha) recognised abuses ?

I thought many many times whether or not to just walk away, but I loved my kids so much, (thats why I had them in the first place) I could not do what your ex did, but then I never signed a contract to accept money, what if he shows your daughter that one day, "kids keep score" it seems to say that your ex can prove he wanted to see his daughter and I suggest that his legal contract proves that. Now could I stand by and watch my kids abused, no, so I could have walked away, but was I going to...no

The fake attempts by my wife to kill herself were 'eventually' explained to my kids as "I am not happy with your father, thats why I want to kill myself", now is that my fault, she was not happy with me, because I encouraged her not to abuse herself in front of my kids.

According to my ex she said I wouldnt do it if he wasnt there, a lie,

she abused herself long before I met her but she hid it, until she realised how much I loved my kids. so many women would say at that point, you need to walk away. but I loved my kids too much, I had to make sacrifices to keep myself from being 'affected' by the abuse. I walked away but saw my kids at every point I possibly could, when their mother found yet another boyfriend, my kids came to live in the same street as me. I CANNOT condone what your ex did, BUT I can understand it, if we had the full story we could examine it

BECAUSE the law here ALWAYS sides with mothers, I struggled to get my kids living with me, (my son ALWAYS stayed with me) BUT I MANAGED IT because I tolds the kids, that a,I loved them, b I said to my daughter if you want to live with your mum, live with the abuse because I no longer am, it took less than two years for my daughter to leave her mothers 'custody' she learnt the lesson.

Being married to a woman who would pay her husband to stay away from HIS kids, is AWFUL. trust me.


Should I have walked away from that marriage and left my children with this abusive woman who inflicted legally (ha) recognised abuses ?

If your husband felt he was abused would you expect him to come into your life again?

Was there anything else at all that your husband might stay away from the place where his child lives with his ex?


I would like to know what angle you see things from.
there are 3 questions, please answer them,

I mean no ill will, honestly,

[the festival spirit]

I always have agreed that a child is not ones "possesion", I said belongs to us as a figure of speech not using it in a literal form. I offered him money for two reasons. He never made contact with us the contact came via my lawyers when I was finally able to pay for a divorce (five years later). He said to them he wanted to see her ok but then why did he never contact me before that time?? I suspected that he didnt want to seem a deadbeat dad and look bad in front of strangers. I also feared for my daughters well being in seeing a man that ignored her in every way since she was 1 years old. Also the fact that he abused me in the past. So I offered the sum knowing he accepted. What does that say about me or him? However even though he accepted this money he still has a legal right to see her and the lawyer had to tell him of this. Has he made contact since? No. So? Whats your point? I dont get it.

To answer your questions,

What it says about you is that you never saw into the future about how your daughter would be heart broken at not seeing her dad.

What it says about him, He knows when to walk away from abuse.
(which MOST mothers insist on) you have admitted being the kind of person that offers money to fathers to stay away and then you blame it on him,

You say he has the legal right to still see HIS daughter, through contact with YOU, I am not suggesting you are an abuser, but what i am suggesting is that if he sees it from an angle where he sees you as an abuser why should he come back to be abused.

What you really should do is sit your daiughter down and ask her, "do you want to see your dad." I guess she will either say YES and YOU will then have to do, EVERYTHING possible to give her her wish, or she will say NO, you must ask her why, IF ITS becasue of the verbal abuse aimed at your husband while he wasn't able to defend himself. maybe someone should put her straight, eg tell your daughter the truth. If its because "he never came to see me" you owe it to your daughter to find out why.

you admit he abused you, how? I think you implied he never abused your daughter but yet you are accusing him of it, and why would strangers make him feel like a bad father? what are you not telling us..... if strangers saw a dad with his daughter they will be happy, how can you suggest being a bad dad in front of strangers is an issue? Unless you know something we don't ......... like all the bad mouthing going on while people are not there to defend themselves. Its the only way your statement can possibly be true.

I am obviously a bit stronger than your ex. are you ?

WHY is he your ex,?

[john white]

Just a quick comment to say it is absolutely no accident that men and women find it so increasingly difficult to get along. The programing is very subtle, as invisible as the air we breathe, highly intelligent and highly focused. We are absolutely chock full of memes with the sole purpose of keeping us away from what is truly important, until we break the eggshell and let consciousness "in". Selfish people are predictable in large numbers: selfless people are unpredictable in any numbers. It really is that simple as to both the why and the how

Lets be kind to ourselves to learn how to be kind to each other

[limelady]

Excellent post john white.....and if I may just add that there can be no black or white here, as every situation is unique to those involved, so anything else is to generalise.

[the festival spirit]

Just a quick comment to say it is absolutely no accident that men and women find it so increasingly difficult to get along. The programing is very subtle, as invisible as the air we breathe, highly intelligent and highly focused. We are absolutely chock full of memes with the sole purpose of keeping us away from what is truly important, until we break the eggshell and let consciousness "in". Selfish people are predictable in large numbers: selfless people are unpredictable in any numbers. It really is that simple as to both the why and the how

Lets be kind to ourselves to learn how to be kind to each other



Excellent post john white.....and if I may just add that there can be no black or white here, as every situation is unique to those involved, so anything else is to generalise.

Hi limelady, and john, I agree with johns post wholeheartedly and if I have come across as negative, or unkind then I am deeply sorry.

however, nothing is ever black and white until it is all black and white, I try my best not to generalise as I have pointed out before in this thread, I try my best not to be prejudiced, I try my best not to discriminate, I base what I say and do on facts.

In my experience all unique situations are only true when you get the truth, if people do not want to tell the truth and then discriminate against people, then I am against that. I have said that we all discriminate, that includes me,
but I try my best not to discriminate,

I treat MOST police officers with the knowledge that they will discriminate towards anyone who does not comply, but I can PROVE it too, and have done. that is not discrimination, it is fact.

limelady, and roxanne, I want to do something I don't believe I should do. But I will because I feel it may help a little.

I apologise if my views on a particular subject are 'seen' as negative or full of blame, I try to only ask quality questions, I try not to make sweeping general statements. I have a heart and I feel the pain of others, not an easy thing to live with, so I do not try and cause any pain at all if I can help it. I do enjoy debating though, it increases my understanding, it allows me to see from different angles and I believe that communication, honest effective communication, whether it is visual, auditry, vibratory or otherwise, IS so important.

I realise that what I am saying to roxanne may eventually cause some pain somewhere, It is not intended, I am not perfect, I know that I can be wrong, and I hold my hands up when I am. I feel awful about pointing out where others may be wrong, if thats possible, everything is a learning curve.

Mine and yours.

[roxanna222]

Im not offended by your questions. I see where you are coming from. So it is okay. I to this day can not understand what makes a person distant themselves from their own child. I asked myself over and over. My head got wrecked from it. This is how it went down you take what you will of it. He wouldnt keep a job. We ate poorly. He drank non stop and then acted strangely I couldnt work and then leave her with him because I was afraid for her safety. I breastfed her for a year. Cant get a job around these parts if breast feeding. He would drink then pick a fight with me. I kept to myself mostly. He would go to my parents for money behind my back which caused me alot of embaressment. I would rather have continued to eat badly. My parents would give us things like a tele and other things not for him but for me and my girl knowing and they told me this we would not have any other way. So after a time I lost respect for him. We had a petty arguement one day. Cant even remember on what. I asked him calmly if he could go to his mother's house for a night he said yes. He came the next day and I asked if he could again. He did. The first night he did. I was happy. I didnt miss him. I felt relieved. I didnt think on him I just enjoyed a quiet home. That is when it hit me I shouldnt be with him more. So I kept asking him to stay there he did and finally after a month and an agonizing decision I told him that it was over. I said explicitly our baby is ours (figure of speech) so this has nothing to do with her you come see her as you like but we should stop being together. He accepted. He then came back several times once with a knife (he had been drinking) etc. Its all there documented. He was unhappy I had moved on. I found a job. Supported her. Earned my way. Finally after his last time threatening me (which included chasing me to my job in his car with me and the baby in it) he stopped. Then nothing for 5years till I was able to pay for a divorce. So who was abusive? It was a case of who lost respect which was me. I could no longer live with him. I never though took the baby from him or prevented him from seeing her. So after 5 years of being a dead beat dad and yes unfortunatly they do exist most men or people I should say are not this way though thankfully. She knows of him and has expressed no desire to see him. He has done nothing though he can see her. I did not want it this way. When I left him I left him. I did not take her from him. I was very expressive to him in saying look its me not you and as for her and you well she is ours (not in the possesive form), so come when you wish to see her. What came after is not my fault. What did I do to make him put a knife to me? Was that my fault too? Should I have stayed with a man I no longer respected? If you cant respect a man you dont love him any longer. So he got money from me, yes. I was terrified if he saw her if that would hurt her shes so young. He accepted this money. What does that say?? Still he knows he can still see her. Its court ordered he cant be afraid of me. Ive done jackall tohim. I just parted ways.

[roxanna222]

I know a man. He has a child that was taken from him. That hurts me to no end. That is not right. He is a normal man in the sense loves and wishes to be in the life of his child. Most are this way and will fight. One of the things I most love about him. My ex not this way but interesting to note neither are his family. When she was born they came once, yes ONCE to see her thats it. They live 20minutes away. It runs in the family. My father lives in another country came to see her and sends her packages of clothes and learning supplies every month. My mother and aunts cant get enough of her. My brother takes her to movies etc and to his home on the beach whenever he can. My family is all about her. His? I just dont understand people that way. As a child I was fawned over by my grandparents godforbid if my parents kept me from them they would not have stood up that. So there it is. Painful to write and expose my life this way but there you go. Im again not offended by your questions. You are not unlike most people who do love their children and who can not comprehend forgetting about them. I am the same. The other type of people I do not understand I will never understand.

[roxanna222]

I have to say in ending he and I did have good times. He was funny at times but after she was born things changed.

[truthcommission]

I have to say in ending he and I did have good times. He was funny at times but after she was born things changed.
I fully get what you are saying here Roxanna.

You can literally wake up one morning and the feeling is gone or replaced by disaffection and indifference.

[roxanna222]

Ok. I think a build up after a time then you realize there is nothing there.

[truthcommission]

The thing that amuses me is that in my adopted country of Australia you hear (well known) people whining about how much they are determined to bring up their children to be good Australians.

Why not just bring them up to be good HUMANS instead?

[tinmenace]

The thing that amuses me is that in my adopted country of Australia you hear (well known) people whining about how much they are determined to bring up their children to be good Australians.

Why not just bring them up to be good HUMANS instead?

Precisely!

[roxanna222]

Have I answered your questions festival?

[oceanwave]

Lets be kind to ourselves to learn how to be kind to each other

equably, the opposite too...

...else, we find the door barring our 'way'

... ...

...tis because of the lock, some seek the key

...only the key turns full circle, the lock remains steadfast...

[wheresmyparachute]

To me it is like a death in a way. When we have lost our connection to something precious. Then it is up to life to take up the time for wounds to heal and children to grow. Keeping a connection is important, even if the mother will not allow it, create a blog and write to the child as he/she grows. The gift will come when the child is able to discern and resolve whatever is necessary. The fact that the father made the effort to share his thoughts and feelings through an accessible form such as a blog is important. Not only is it therapy for the dad, but it is a love letter to the child.

I sound like I'm a hundred years old but I know that in life there can be experiences where we feel completely ripped off, invalidated, raped, persecuted, betrayed and deceived. We have to glean the wisdom from these events through healing or these creations will end up getting the best of us and there will be no redeeming value from enduring them. Therefore we must work the pain and the grief out through our own reflections of what the pain actually is. When something precious is taken away from us, regardless of what gender we are, we sometimes feel robbed. It is a loss and a death in a sense. It is also A huge indication of what is necessary for us to heal. Please take into consideration the gift of the loss is a reminder to heal the loss within the self which has nothing to do with the actual event taking place. After the wound is healed, the energy of loss, rejection, betrayal and abandonement will no longer be magnetic. You may find the mother will change her tune when she is no longer reactive to your loss. It takes two in a relationship to perpetuate the misery or transcend from the pain. It truly is not opposites that attract. Like attracts like. When we are not whole, we tend to attract people with the same wounds. It isn't always something people are ready to address or excited to learn about... All you can do is your part which is to heal the self, and be available when all of the dust settles again. Best of luck to you!

[i_am]

This thread is all about women who deny the fathers access to their children.

What about fathers who deny their children? I don't mean deny, as in who is the father, but those who walk out and have no further contact with their children.

It works both ways. There are many fathers who have absconded with their children, thus denying them a mother. There are mothers who have walked out on their children. There are fathers who have custody and deny the mothers access. It is a very complex subject and there are too many variations to generalise.

[truthcommission]

Please take into consideration the gift of the loss is a reminder to heal the loss within the self which has nothing to do with the actual event taking place.
and
Like attracts like. When we are not whole, we tend to attract people with the same wounds.
Wise words.

I am beginning to realize this. Its not about the fact that I going through the loss of my wife and children but that I have an unresolved issue with loss myself.

Two days ago I spoke to a psychiatrist who told me that the deep psychological wounds I have can take a lifetime to heal. I know I have a deep rooted fear of loss which is manifested in my current situation.

Sometimes this forum is like therapy because it helps me think differently about some of the things that have happened in my life (that I believe no child should experience or witness) which have made me the person I am.

All I want is my children back in their little beds with their books and toys around them and each time I think about it I can't stop the flood of pain and tears.

I got a letter this morning from a Family Counseling service who said that my estranged wife wants to participate in dispute resolution.

Now I don't know if that is her getting paranoid in the lead up to the court case on June 8th (thinking I will claim she is not a fit mother) or whether she is actually genuinely concerned about resolution.

I have never felt so powerless and alone.

[tru3]

This thread is all about women who deny the fathers access to their children.

What about fathers who deny their children? I don't mean deny, as in who is the father, but those who walk out and have no further contact with their children.

It works both ways. There are many fathers who have absconded with their children, thus denying them a mother. There are mothers who have walked out on their children. There are fathers who have custody and deny the mothers access. It is a very complex subject and there are too many variations to generalise.

yes, and haven't we all been victimized, in one way or another. we all have a story, don't we, even in the most balanced of homes? in this life, i wanted my parents to get divorced when i was 12 years old. fun stuff, huh?

but, in my heart of hearts, after years of soul work, i believe that we all contract our family relationships. everythings mapped out before we get here; not scripts, but "gates", cycles ending, cycles beginning.

sometimes, i think the best we can do is just break the chains and cycles of violence, addiction, and denial.

don't pay it forward, in other words.

forgiveness is letting go of the idea of ever having a better past. :cool:

[the festival spirit]

Have I answered your questions festival?

roxanna, have you answered my question(s) ?

No

I find this so sad, my heart goes out to you all, I enjoy a debate where the 'opposition' (figure of speech)
prove my point BUT NOT THIS TIME!
I really feel for all 3 of you, Can you put your own heartbreak to one side and put your daughters RIGHTS first?
what you have done is become misery and negativity, all you can think about is how you are affected,
I see hardly anything about doing something about your childs heartbreak.

you said yourself,


I to this day can not understand what makes a person distant themselves from their
own child. I asked myself over and over. My head got wrecked from it.


Admission you are the one with the problem


So after a time I lost respect for him.


That backs up my last comment


I told him that it was over. I said explicitly our baby is ours (figure of speech) so this has nothing to do
with her


Fact, that its NOTHING to do with your daughter


It was a case of who lost respect which was me.


again, backing up my earlier comment


I never though took the baby from him or prevented him from seeing her.


BUT you already admitted you did prevent him form seeing her, you just say you didnt, A legal contract
proves it, and look above you said already it was nothing to do with your daughter


I was very expressive to him in saying look its me not you


Another admission ?
What did I do to make him put a knife to me?

Dunno, but when my ex put a knife to herself, in front of my kids, I often thought, not acted that I
would kill or be killed to protect my children, (and another mans children) from abuse
I (thankfully) always had the 'presence of mind' to not act on my thoughts, how could I be as bad as
the abuser and expect respect from my kids?

So he got money from me, yes. I was terrified if he saw her if that would
hurt her shes so young. He accepted this money. What does that say

Proves you prevented him from seeing his daughter
Ive done jackall tohim.
Really,?

Now, I have made an unpaid career of helping people, I do it voluntarily, This forum is much more
direct in nature than one on one sessions, IF I was there with you now, I would ask if its ok for me to give
you a big hug, I would say shall we start all over again, knowing what we know now.

Again, my heart goes out to you especially roxanna, you are key to all of this,

Love n peace n respect

shaun

[the festival spirit]

To me it is like a death in a way. When we have lost our connection to something precious. Then it is up to life to take up the time for wounds to heal and children to grow. Keeping a connection is important, even if the mother will not allow it, create a blog and write to the child as he/she grows. The gift will come when the child is able to discern and resolve whatever is necessary. The fact that the father made the effort to share his thoughts and feelings through an accessible form such as a blog is important. Not only is it therapy for the dad, but it is a love letter to the child.

I sound like I'm a hundred years old but I know that in life there can be experiences where we feel completely ripped off, invalidated, raped, persecuted, betrayed and deceived. We have to glean the wisdom from these events through healing or these creations will end up getting the best of us and there will be no redeeming value from enduring them. Therefore we must work the pain and the grief out through our own reflections of what the pain actually is. When something precious is taken away from us, regardless of what gender we are, we sometimes feel robbed. It is a loss and a death in a sense. It is also A huge indication of what is necessary for us to heal. Please take into consideration the gift of the loss is a reminder to heal the loss within the self which has nothing to do with the actual event taking place. After the wound is healed, the energy of loss, rejection, betrayal and abandonement will no longer be magnetic. You may find the mother will change her tune when she is no longer reactive to your loss. It takes two in a relationship to perpetuate the misery or transcend from the pain. It truly is not opposites that attract. Like attracts like. When we are not whole, we tend to attract people with the same wounds. It isn't always something people are ready to address or excited to learn about... All you can do is your part which is to heal the self, and be available when all of the dust settles again. Best of luck to you!

Fantastic, respect friend. Wise words.

This thread is all about women who deny the fathers access to their children.

What about fathers who deny their children? I don't mean deny, as in who is the father, but those who walk out and have no further contact with their children.

It works both ways. There are many fathers who have absconded with their children, thus denying them a mother. There are mothers who have walked out on their children. There are fathers who have custody and deny the mothers access. It is a very complex subject and there are too many variations to generalise.

A bit off topic, Fair and straight forward up to a point, but in roxannas case, there is no generalising, we are using the facts that roxanna supplies herself, anyone who says stuff about generalising is ignoring the facts.
I understand that you are saying, and others before you, that I was not there and that I am generalising, but I am not, I am asking relevent questions,

and

Wise words.

I am beginning to realize this. Its not about the fact that I going through the loss of my wife and children but that I have an unresolved issue with loss myself.

Two days ago I spoke to a psychiatrist who told me that the deep psychological wounds I have can take a lifetime to heal. I know I have a deep rooted fear of loss which is manifested in my current situation.

Sometimes this forum is like therapy because it helps me think differently about some of the things that have happened in my life (that I believe no child should experience or witness) which have made me the person I am.

All I want is my children back in their little beds with their books and toys around them and each time I think about it I can't stop the flood of pain and tears.

I got a letter this morning from a Family Counseling service who said that my estranged wife wants to participate in dispute resolution.

Now I don't know if that is her getting paranoid in the lead up to the court case on June 8th (thinking I will claim she is not a fit mother) or whether she is actually genuinely concerned about resolution.

I have never felt so powerless and alone.


Firstly You are not alone, forums like this prove it!

Your instincts are still sharp, as soon as my ex 'realised' that SHE WAS an unfit mother, I got the mediation letter too, it inspired me to stop wasting my time with an unreasonable person. and I went out and got qualified and started to help people that WANTED help, they came to me, please pm me if you would like to talk,

Respect to everyone brave enough to join this thread.

My heart is still going out to roxanna.

shaun

[i_am]

Originally Posted by the festival spiritOriginally Posted by i_am
This thread is all about women who deny the fathers access to their children.

What about fathers who deny their children? I don't mean deny, as in who is the father, but those who walk out and have no further contact with their children. It works both ways. There are many fathers who have absconded with their children, thus denying them a mother. There are mothers who have walked out on their children. There are fathers who have custody and deny the mothers access. It is a very complex subject and there are too many variations to generalise.

A bit off topic, Fair and straight forward up to a point, but in roxannas case, there is no generalising, we are using the facts that roxanna supplies herself, anyone who says stuff about generalising is ignoring the facts.
I understand that you are saying, and others before you, that I was not there and that I am generalising, but I am not, I am asking relevent questions,


Ummm!! Not off topic at all. This is davelove's thread, not roxanna's and this (below) is the first post. As for my reference to generalising, what makes you think it was aimed at you? Nothing at all to do with your comments or anyone else's for that matter. Just my thoughts. I was merely expressing my ideas :p

the women that deny a father his child
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by davelove
i know of so many cases where the woman denied the father his child, where the father has no recourse and/ access. the courts generally take the womans side. what are your ideas on this subject forummers? id be very interested to know.

[roxanna222]

This thread is all about women who deny the fathers access to their children.

What about fathers who deny their children? I don't mean deny, as in who is the father, but those who walk out and have no further contact with their children.

It works both ways. There are many fathers who have absconded with their children, thus denying them a mother. There are mothers who have walked out on their children. There are fathers who have custody and deny the mothers access. It is a very complex subject and there are too many variations to generalise.

Exactly. Why so difficult for some to see this? I feel for the men who have been denied their children. The father of my child can legally visit her. Has he? No. Im past and done with wondering why or getting bitter on it. Its what it is. You want to blame and/or fault me for this then that is out of my hands. Who here would like a person who yields a knife to your neck in the presence of a one year old, a person who has never paid a dime for the childs needs, a person who has stalked you, a person who has paid no interest in seeing or being involved with the child in any way since the child was a year old, Who here wants that in their child's life? Im not playing the victim Im stating facts here. Even though I paid the man to not see her, Which he accepted on the spot, he knows as is the obligation of the lawyer in accordance to this country's laws to tell him that in fact he can see her. Has he? I havent had any word. Im not invisible my contact information he can access anytime. He is not denied access to the child, HE DOESNT WANT IT. Now how hard is that to fuckin get people?? Jesus

note: I feel for you festival and other men who actually want their children and are denied this. I know of one case which breaks my heart. However it works both ways so kindly get off my back. Im not your ex take up the issue with her. Thank you.

[infinitetruth]

I don't mean to sound like an old Granny, but doesn't this show us all how important the family unit really is? And how important it is for couples to remain together? NWO want to split the family unit up, to gain control. Thats why we get bombarded with porn and womens equality etc etc.

In my opinion if you have children, you need to be there for them. Thats why I choose to stay at home to bring up my children. I accept the gender differences that my husband and I have - but I don't think of myself as inferior, my job is just as important as his.

When my husband and I were having problems I bought a DVD by Mechelle weiner Davis. This women is a genius in her field, she discovered techniques that can keep a marriage alive and well. Her very very basic advice was to spend more time together. She address paradoxes that usually (not always) women communicate to connect, men comminucate to pass on information - Usually men need sexual love to feel love and connection whereas women need conversation and intimate emotional moments to feel love and connection. She made it clear that both partners need to sacrifice their 'rightness' for the sake of the relationship sometimes. It was an amazing DVD and opened my eyes as to what I was doing wrong in the marriage. The main thing I was doing wrong was that I was thinking that my husband and I were the same, like we were equal.

WE ARE NOT. men and women ARE different and we have to accept that to be able to move on.

I don't know the answer to single parent families, it's very very difficult - but if we have children its our duty to create a secure family unit for them and really try to make things work with each other. I don't really think that our society really puts enough emphasis on working-relationships (marriages or partnerships). IMO michele weiners DVD should be shown at ALL sex education classes in schools because her advice is relevent to all whether in a relationship or not, and whether gay or straight. She talks about basic ways to reduce conflict, for the sake of reducing conflict.

I know that doesn't really address the thread, but I think it is relevent.

[tru3]

I don't mean to sound like an old Granny, but doesn't this show us all how important the family unit really is? And how important it is for couples to remain together? NWO want to split the family unit up, to gain control. Thats why we get bombarded with porn and womens equality etc etc.

In my opinion if you have children, you need to be there for them. Thats why I choose to stay at home to bring up my children. I accept the gender differences that my husband and I have - but I don't think of myself as inferior, my job is just as important as his.

i loved my granny. i hope to be a grampy someday. :)

the family structure was the cornerstone of the current course of human evolution, imo. it's even possible that, along with genetic manipulation, homo sapiens was subject to social manipulation, it goes back that far.

all the other primates have harem structures, i'm pretty sure. we don't. it allowed us to thrive. more energy devoted to gathering food, rather than community intrigue. the nuclear family has a host of problems, but it is a fundamentally stable social organization, just from a naturalists point of view.

and still, imv, staying together solely for "the sake of the kids" is a really bad idea.

if kids never see us happy, how will they ever be? my advice is take your best shot, try to work out your stuff, but for god's sake don't wear a hair shirt or a crown of thorns for the rest of your life. jmo.

[infinitetruth]

(eek)

and still, imv, staying together solely for "the sake of the kids" is a really bad idea.

It this kind of brainwashing that I think Michelle was trying to free us from. Let me explain (before u kill me lol) For people who have made a commitment to each other, to make that commitment means that there was love there to begin with, and that love was strong enough to warrant that commitment. What Michelles teachings explain is that this love can last a lifetime and it can be gotten back when things have really hit rock bottom, you just have to know the techniques to do that. She teaches techniques to keep not only the relationship together but the love alive throughout. What she explains is that you don't have to stay together for the 'sake of the kids' but you use these techniques to love each other FOR the kids. One of her main beliefs is that you should 'put the relationship first, to put your kids first' in other words you make your relationship the number 1 priority.

It has help my marriage incredibly. And this women has experience, she has been married 27 years and still going strong her motivation was that her parents split up (amicably) but she was devistated by it. She became a marriage counsellor after that and started to develop her techniques. I really see her much like David Icke - completely thinking outside the box, it really opened my mind about how important relationships really are, and how we should be saying 'we,we,we' instead of 'me,me,me' LOL

[i_am]

Exactly. Why so difficult for some to see this? I feel for the men who have been denied their children. The father of my child can legally visit her. Has he? No.

Even though I paid the man to not see her, Which he accepted on the spot, he knows as is the obligation of the lawyer in accordance to this country's laws to tell him that in fact he can see her. Has he? I havent had any word. Im not invisible my contact information he can access anytime. He is not denied access to the child, HE DOESNT WANT IT. Now how hard is that to fuckin get people?? Jesus

Sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. Fear, abuse, self preservation can make one do anything to just to make it all stop. Yeah, offering money was, in retrospect, probably a pointless excercise but unfortuately, at the time, we don't have the benefit of hindsight and/or logic.


http://www.yourcoolprofile.com/Images/Hugs_And_Kisses/images/hugs-kisses--10.gif

[roxanna222]

Yes Iam, now I see that it was pointless. If I hadnt offered he still wouldnt be here to see her. I know this now. Oh well. Just to make clear my daughter does "know of him" though remember not so much and I have never once spoken ill of him. I explained to her that he was dealing with a sickness (which has to be the case if a man does away with his own flesh and blood). When shes older and if she wants more details I will tell her. But again not in a vile manner just the facts and that she is loved.

Thanks for the hug, bless

[the festival spirit]

IF I was there with you now, I would ask if its ok for me to give
you a big hug, I would say shall we start all over again, knowing what we know now.

Again, my heart goes out to you especially roxanna, you are key to all of this,

Love n peace n respect

shaun

Roxanna, I do not want to be presumptious, I ask you, who was the thanks for the hug aimed at, as, someone (I am) reminded me we can all be presumptious.

Roxanna as you avoid answering my searching questions and also taking into consideration the things you said on another thread where you are showing your unease at not getting answers, I will leave it at that. BUT if you dont answer my question you may be thought of as dropping it!

I ask you, who was the thanks for the hug aimed at? (done twice so you dont miss it)

Ummm!! Not off topic at all. This is davelove's thread, not roxanna's and this (below) is the first post. As for my reference to generalising, what makes you think it was aimed at you? Nothing at all to do with your comments or anyone else's for that matter. Just my thoughts. I was merely expressing my ideas :p

I am, OK I admit, I just presumed that the posts that followed mine suggestiing that it is too big a subject to be generalising with were aimed at me.

reversing the thread of the thread, seems off topic, but I admit it just seems that way, I was wrong, I hold my hands up.This thread is all about women who deny the fathers access to their children.

What about fathers who deny their children? I don't mean deny, as in who is the father, but those who walk out and have no further contact with their children.

It works both ways. There are many fathers who have absconded with their children, thus denying them a mother. There are mothers who have walked out on their children. There are fathers who have custody and deny the mothers access. It is a very complex subject and there are too many variations to generalise.

I really dont want to get anyone annoyed, honestly, I never intend that. I am going to back out gracefully by (once again) apologising to everyone who may have been offended by anything I have said.

I AM SORRY!

[roxanna222]

no worries ok, you didnt live mine nor me yours ok, the hug thing was another poster dont remember the name but was ok

[i_am]

I am, OK I admit, I just presumed that the posts that followed mine suggestiing that it is too big a subject to be generalising with were aimed at me.

reversing the thread of the thread, seems off topic, but I admit it just seems that way, I was wrong, I hold my hands up.

I really dont want to get anyone annoyed, honestly, I never intend that. I am going to back out gracefully by (once again) apologising to everyone who may have been offended by anything I have said.

I AM SORRY!

Nothing to be sorry about, no offence taken here, but seeing as apologies were offered, thank You :)

We all jump to conclusions ocassionally. I see you have the videocast thing worked out so that is one good thing. Hope you have been getting some of this lately.
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3589/aesleepingju3.gif

[the festival spirit]

no worries ok, you didnt live mine nor me yours ok, the hug thing was another poster dont remember the name but was ok


and would you thank me for a hug if I gave you one? ( a hug )

[roxanna222]

not from you no
im sorry
hard to explain your invested interest i cant
im very involved and the man he is ok

[the festival spirit]

not from you no
im sorry
hard to explain your invested interest i cant
im very involved and the man he is ok

after your pm's Roxanne! I no longer wish to communicate with you.

I retract the HUG. you are abusive and NO-ONE deserves THAT.

[the festival spirit]

after your pm's Roxanne! I no longer wish to communicate with you.

I retract the HUG. you are abusive and NO-ONE deserves THAT.


I find some of your pm's abusive, I will not report it, but if you continue to victimise me, I will.


EDIT: OH and by the way, here in the uk, we have (or some of us have) evolved not to put everything down to sex, and I hug my kids ALL The time and there is NOTHING sexual about it so please keep your intimate personal relationships away from me. Thank you!

[the festival spirit]

Nothing to be sorry about, no offence taken here, but seeing as apologies were offered, thank You :)

We all jump to conclusions ocassionally. I see you have the videocast thing worked out so that is one good thing. Hope you have been getting some of this lately.
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3589/aesleepingju3.gif

Why thank you I am, for your respect and consideration, I accept your kind words and yes I have watched the first part of the videos, but the confirmation I have been looking for WAS in the first half of the first part, (thats another story though.) I am about to watch the rest of the first part, and the following parts.

Sleep, well I have not used any 'artificial aids' and I am getting a little here and there, I can usually make do with 4-6 hours a night, but to be honest, my body and mind have found little need for sleep since my 5 day infinite love session, woohoo, and having a son and a 'disabled' daughter, If I dont sleep at night I just dont sleep. (I think this comes from walking the wards with a babe in arms, all night.)

Sorry for the off topicness ;) where is davelove anyway?

[mada88]

Why say we love children but we hurt them so. What with all the shit they see and have to do. And from day one children are lied to about everything for example lying about father Christmas (just an example I know that’s a lie lol) All the taboos, and parents that some how think they can mould there children to be and do things they couldn't. Just consider not bringing kids to this insane world we have to sought this world out first I believe before we can bring children to it. To live in a grown up world.

[the festival spirit]

Why say we love children but we hurt them so. What with all the shit they see and have to do. And from day one children are lied to about everything for example lying about father Christmas (just an example I know that’s a lie lol) All the taboos, and parents that some how think they can mould there children to be and do things they couldn't. Just consider not bringing kids to this insane world we have to sought this world out first I believe before we can bring children to it. To live in a grown up world.

nice fractal, I apologised to my kids a long time ago for the father christmas lie. So glad my kids are awake and understanding!

[i_am]

nice fractal, I apologised to my kids a long time ago for the father christmas lie. So glad my kids are awake and understanding!

Yeah, we should be more honest with our kids. My son and daughter-in-law told their eight year old the truth about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny this year. She was upset, not so much because the fantasy was shattered but the first thing she said was, "you lied to me!"

[the festival spirit]

Ummm!! Not off topic at all. This is davelove's thread, not roxanna's and this (below) is the first post. As for my reference to generalising, what makes you think it was aimed at you? Nothing at all to do with your comments or anyone else's for that matter. Just my thoughts. I was merely expressing my ideas :p

Somehow I didnt see this and I apologise, I hold my hands up.

Respect.

[davelove]

why did you have to pay a guy that "wasnt intereseted" in his child to stay away??

[cleopatraxxx]

Just a quick comment to say it is absolutely no accident that men and women find it so increasingly difficult to get along. The programing is very subtle, as invisible as the air we breathe, highly intelligent and highly focused. We are absolutely chock full of memes with the sole purpose of keeping us away from what is truly important, until we break the eggshell and let consciousness "in". Selfish people are predictable in large numbers: selfless people are unpredictable in any numbers. It really is that simple as to both the why and the how

Lets be kind to ourselves to learn how to be kind to each other

Thank YOU John. wise u always have been.
lets be kind to ourselves and learn

I love your posts!

[davelove]

their words are easy. it is by their actions ye shall know them. jesus (h) christ!!

[nessa felagund]

originally posted by john white
Selfish people are predictable in large numbers: selfless people are unpredictable in any numbers. It really is that simple as to both the why and the how


You just hit the nail on the head! Anyone who would use their children to hurt the other parent is selfish and cruel. It is the children who will suffer most.

I understand that sometimes marriages/partnerships don't work out. But the children should never be used as a pawn to hurt each other.