Club of Rome "New World Order"

[serpentiumiluminati]

New World Order
Club of Rome Report
REGIONALIZED AND ADAPTIVE MODEL
OF THE GLOBAL WORLD SYSTEM

Report on the Progress in the
STRATEGY FOR SURVIVAL PROJECT
of the
Club of Rome
Mihajlo Mesarovic and Eduard Pestel, Directors

"C O N F I D E N T I A L"

September 17, 1973
1. Motivation and Objectives
The world problematique formulated by the CLUB OF ROME is not only global in
nature, involving factors traditionally considered as unrelated, but also points to the
crisis situations which are developing in spite of the noblest of intentions and, indeed,
as their corollary. To point out the problematique and the spectrum of critical and
traumatic situations it entails is not enough; the acceptance of the reality of the
problematique MUST BE FOLLOWED BY CHANGES IF THE CONCERN IS NOT
TO REMAIN PURELY ACADEMIC. It is necessary, therefore, to present the issues
within the problematique in specific and relevant terms which requires regions
interpretation of the global issues. Furthermore, a basis should be provided for the
resolution of conflicts (inevitably accompanying the problematique-type situations)
through cooperation rather than confrontation. These factors have provided the
motivation for initiation of the Strategy for Survival project which calls for the
construction of a regionalized and adaptive model of the total world system with tht
following specific objectives:
(1) TO ENABLE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF SCENARIOS FOR THE
FUTURE DEVELOPMENT OF THE WORLD SYSTEM which represent visions of
the world future stemming from different cultures and value systems and reflecting
hopes and fears in different regions of the world.
(ii) To develop a planning and options-assessment tool for long-range issues, and
thereby TO PROVIDE A BASIS FOR CONFLICT RESOLUTION by cooperation
rather than confrontation.
2. Basic Structure of the Model
The basic characteristics of the model are:
(i) THE WORLD SYSTEM IS REPRESENTED in terms of interacting regions with
provisions made to investigate any individual country or subregion in the context of
regional and global development. Presently the world system is represented BY TEN
REGIONS: NORTH AMERICA, WESTERN EUROPE, EASTERN EUROPE,
JAPAN, REST OF DEVELOPED WORLD, LATIN AMERICA, MIDDLE EAST,
REST OF AFRICA, SOUTH AND SOUTH EAST ASIA, AND CHINA.
(ii) In order to be able to deal with the complex of factors involved in problematique
in a way which is sound, credible and systematic, a hierarchical structure has bee
adopted for the model in which each level in the hierarchy represents the evolution of
the world system within a context defined by a given set of laws and principles.
Specifically, the levels involved are:
GEO-PHYSICAL, ECOLOGICAL, TECHNOLOGICAL (MAN-MADE ENERGY
AND MASS TRANSFERS), ECONOMIC, INSTITUTIONAL, SOCIOPOLITICAL,
VALUE-CULTURAL AND HUMAN-BIOLOGICAL. Such and
approach enables an optimal use of confirmed scientific knowledge and available data,
(iii) An adequate view of the conditions in which the problematique is emerging and
under which the solutions must be found require the recognition of the purposive
aspects of the human community and adaptiveness of human beings. The model of the
world system will have, therefore, two parts:
(1) the so-called causal part, representing dynamical processes which follow histoical
patterns of development and (2) the so-called goal-seeking part which represents
purposive changes under new conditions. The goal-seeking part in turn includes two
levels: the decision-making or actions level and the norms level; the former represents
the purposive response of the system while the latter represents the values and norms
which constrain and condition such a response.
3. Progress in the Model Construction
The construction of the model as described in Sec. 2 and with the objectives as
specified in Sec. 1 is certainly a rather complex task and the research is organized to
proceed in parallel in several directions. The overall assessment of the model status is
the following:
The model has been developed up to the stage where it can be used for policy analysis
related to a number of critical issues, such as: energy resources utilization and
technology assessment; food demand and production; population growth and the
affect of timing of birth control programs; reduction of inequities in regional economic
developments; depletion dynamics of certain resources, particularly oil reserves;
phosphorus use as fertilizer; regional unemployment; constraints on growth due to
labor, energy or export limitation, etc.
Specific developments which enable use of the model as described above include the
following:
1. A COMPUTER MODEL OF THE WORLD ECONOMIC SYSTEM HAS
BEEN DEVELOPED AND VALIDATED BY AN EXTENSIVE SET OF DATA. The
model has two levels - macro and micro. On the MACRO LEVEL the model of each
region INCLUDES THE GROSS REGIONAL PRODUCT, TOTAL IMPORTS AND
EXPORTS, CAPITAL AND LABOR PRODUCTIVITY AND VARIOUS
COMPONENTS OF FINAL DEMAND SUCH AS PUBLIC CONSUMPTION,
GOVERNMENT EXPENDITURE, AND TOTAL INVESTMENT. ON THE
MICRO LEVEL EIGHT PRODUCTION SECTORS ARE RECOGNIZED:
AGRICULTURE MANUFACTURING, FOOD PROCESSING, ENERGY,
MINING, SERVICES, BANKING AND TRADE, AND RESIDENTIAL
CONSTRUCTION. The input-output framework is used for the intermediate
demands. A FULL SCALE MICRO TRADE MATRIX ALSO HAS BEEN
DEVELOPED.
2. A WORLD POPULATION MODEL HAS BEEN CONSTRUCTED IN TERMS
OF THE SAME REGIONS AS THE ECONOMIC MODEL. The model has been
validited by the data available. In each region the population structure is represented in
terms of four age groups with appropriate delays which make possible assessment of
population momentum and assessment of the effectiveness of implementation of
various population control measures.
3. AN ENERGY MODEL HAS BEEN CONSTRUCTED which gives for each
region the consumption and production of energy and interregional exchange of energy
resources as a function of economic factors. Energy is treated both in composite terms
and in reference to individual energy sources, namely solid fuel, liquid fuel, nuclear,
gas and hydro.
4. A FOOD PRODUCTION AND ARABLE LAND USE MODEL HAS BEEN
CONSTRUCTED which allows the assessment of a number of food related issues
including: the need and availability of phosphorus required for intensive agriculture,
AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF TIMING AND MAGNITUDES OF NATURAL
DISASTERS SUCH AS DROUGHT, CROP FAILURE DUE TO DISEASE, ETC.
5. A MAJOR CONCERN IN THE APPLICATION OF THE COMPUTER
MODEL is its proper utilization so as to avoid dependence on the deterministic aspects
of model operation. In order to avoid this an interactive method of computer
simulation analysis has been developed. THE METHOD REPRESENTS A
SYMBIOSIS OF MAN AND COMPUTER IN WHICH THE COMPUTER
PROVIDES THE LOGICAL AND NUMERICAL CAPABILITY WHILE MAN
PROVIDES THE VALUES, INTUITION AND EXPERIENCE. The method utilizes
an option specification and selection program which enables the policy analyst or
decision-maker to evaluate alternative options on various levels of the decision process,
i.e., with respect to goals, strategies, tactical and implementational factors. SPECIAL
ATTENTION IS PAID TO THE NORM CHANGING PROCESSES.
4. Progress in Application
THE MODEL HAS BEEN USED both for the assessment of alternative scenarios
for future regional and global developments (under different regional conditions) as
well as in the interactive mode selection of policy options (specifically for the energy
crises issues in developed regions).
OUR EFFORTS IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE WILL BE CONCENTRATED
ON FURTHER USE OF THE ALREADY DEVELOPED MODEL. THE PLANS
INCLUDE EMPHASIS IN THE FOLLOWING THREE DIRECTIONS:
(i) Assessment in the changes over time of the span of options available to solve some
major crisis problems.
(ii) IMPLEMENTATION of the regional models in different parts of the world and
their connection via a satellite communication network for the purpose of joint
assessment of the long term global future by teams from the various regions.
(iii) Implementation of the vision for the future outlined by leaders from an
underdeveloped region in order TO ASSESS with the model EXISTING OBSTACLES
AND THE MEANS WHEREBY THE VISION MIGHT BECOME REALITY.

[kappy0405]

Club of Rome: leaders of the environmental scam.

[kbeet]

New World Order
Club of Rome Report
REGIONALIZED AND ADAPTIVE MODEL
OF THE GLOBAL WORLD SYSTEM

Report on the Progress in the
STRATEGY FOR SURVIVAL PROJECT
of the
Club of Rome
Mihajlo Mesarovic and Eduard Pestel, Directors

"C O N F I D E N T I A L"

September 17, 1973
1. Motivation and Objectives
The world problematique formulated by the CLUB OF ROME is not only global in
nature, involving factors traditionally considered as unrelated, but also points to the
crisis situations which are developing in spite of the noblest of intentions and, indeed,
as their corollary. To point out the problematique and the spectrum of critical and
traumatic situations it entails is not enough; the acceptance of the reality of the
problematique MUST BE FOLLOWED BY CHANGES IF THE CONCERN IS NOT
TO REMAIN PURELY ACADEMIC. It is necessary, therefore, to present the issues
within the problematique in specific and relevant terms which requires regions
interpretation of the global issues. Furthermore, a basis should be provided for the
resolution of conflicts (inevitably accompanying the problematique-type situations)
through cooperation rather than confrontation. These factors have provided the
motivation for initiation of the Strategy for Survival project which calls for the
construction of a regionalized and adaptive model of the total world system with tht
following specific objectives:
(1) TO ENABLE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF SCENARIOS FOR THE
FUTURE DEVELOPMENT OF THE WORLD SYSTEM which represent visions of
the world future stemming from different cultures and value systems and reflecting
hopes and fears in different regions of the world.
(ii) To develop a planning and options-assessment tool for long-range issues, and
thereby TO PROVIDE A BASIS FOR CONFLICT RESOLUTION by cooperation
rather than confrontation.
2. Basic Structure of the Model
The basic characteristics of the model are:
(i) THE WORLD SYSTEM IS REPRESENTED in terms of interacting regions with
provisions made to investigate any individual country or subregion in the context of
regional and global development. Presently the world system is represented BY TEN
REGIONS: NORTH AMERICA, WESTERN EUROPE, EASTERN EUROPE,
JAPAN, REST OF DEVELOPED WORLD, LATIN AMERICA, MIDDLE EAST,
REST OF AFRICA, SOUTH AND SOUTH EAST ASIA, AND CHINA.
(ii) In order to be able to deal with the complex of factors involved in problematique
in a way which is sound, credible and systematic, a hierarchical structure has bee
adopted for the model in which each level in the hierarchy represents the evolution of
the world system within a context defined by a given set of laws and principles.
Specifically, the levels involved are:
GEO-PHYSICAL, ECOLOGICAL, TECHNOLOGICAL (MAN-MADE ENERGY
AND MASS TRANSFERS), ECONOMIC, INSTITUTIONAL, SOCIOPOLITICAL,
VALUE-CULTURAL AND HUMAN-BIOLOGICAL. Such and
approach enables an optimal use of confirmed scientific knowledge and available data,
(iii) An adequate view of the conditions in which the problematique is emerging and
under which the solutions must be found require the recognition of the purposive
aspects of the human community and adaptiveness of human beings. The model of the
world system will have, therefore, two parts:
(1) the so-called causal part, representing dynamical processes which follow histoical
patterns of development and (2) the so-called goal-seeking part which represents
purposive changes under new conditions. The goal-seeking part in turn includes two
levels: the decision-making or actions level and the norms level; the former represents
the purposive response of the system while the latter represents the values and norms
which constrain and condition such a response.
3. Progress in the Model Construction
The construction of the model as described in Sec. 2 and with the objectives as
specified in Sec. 1 is certainly a rather complex task and the research is organized to
proceed in parallel in several directions. The overall assessment of the model status is
the following:
The model has been developed up to the stage where it can be used for policy analysis
related to a number of critical issues, such as: energy resources utilization and
technology assessment; food demand and production; population growth and the
affect of timing of birth control programs; reduction of inequities in regional economic
developments; depletion dynamics of certain resources, particularly oil reserves;
phosphorus use as fertilizer; regional unemployment; constraints on growth due to
labor, energy or export limitation, etc.
Specific developments which enable use of the model as described above include the
following:
1. A COMPUTER MODEL OF THE WORLD ECONOMIC SYSTEM HAS
BEEN DEVELOPED AND VALIDATED BY AN EXTENSIVE SET OF DATA. The
model has two levels - macro and micro. On the MACRO LEVEL the model of each
region INCLUDES THE GROSS REGIONAL PRODUCT, TOTAL IMPORTS AND
EXPORTS, CAPITAL AND LABOR PRODUCTIVITY AND VARIOUS
COMPONENTS OF FINAL DEMAND SUCH AS PUBLIC CONSUMPTION,
GOVERNMENT EXPENDITURE, AND TOTAL INVESTMENT. ON THE
MICRO LEVEL EIGHT PRODUCTION SECTORS ARE RECOGNIZED:
AGRICULTURE MANUFACTURING, FOOD PROCESSING, ENERGY,
MINING, SERVICES, BANKING AND TRADE, AND RESIDENTIAL
CONSTRUCTION. The input-output framework is used for the intermediate
demands. A FULL SCALE MICRO TRADE MATRIX ALSO HAS BEEN
DEVELOPED.
2. A WORLD POPULATION MODEL HAS BEEN CONSTRUCTED IN TERMS
OF THE SAME REGIONS AS THE ECONOMIC MODEL. The model has been
validited by the data available. In each region the population structure is represented in
terms of four age groups with appropriate delays which make possible assessment of
population momentum and assessment of the effectiveness of implementation of
various population control measures.
3. AN ENERGY MODEL HAS BEEN CONSTRUCTED which gives for each
region the consumption and production of energy and interregional exchange of energy
resources as a function of economic factors. Energy is treated both in composite terms
and in reference to individual energy sources, namely solid fuel, liquid fuel, nuclear,
gas and hydro.
4. A FOOD PRODUCTION AND ARABLE LAND USE MODEL HAS BEEN
CONSTRUCTED which allows the assessment of a number of food related issues
including: the need and availability of phosphorus required for intensive agriculture,
AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF TIMING AND MAGNITUDES OF NATURAL
DISASTERS SUCH AS DROUGHT, CROP FAILURE DUE TO DISEASE, ETC.
5. A MAJOR CONCERN IN THE APPLICATION OF THE COMPUTER
MODEL is its proper utilization so as to avoid dependence on the deterministic aspects
of model operation. In order to avoid this an interactive method of computer
simulation analysis has been developed. THE METHOD REPRESENTS A
SYMBIOSIS OF MAN AND COMPUTER IN WHICH THE COMPUTER
PROVIDES THE LOGICAL AND NUMERICAL CAPABILITY WHILE MAN
PROVIDES THE VALUES, INTUITION AND EXPERIENCE. The method utilizes
an option specification and selection program which enables the policy analyst or
decision-maker to evaluate alternative options on various levels of the decision process,
i.e., with respect to goals, strategies, tactical and implementational factors. SPECIAL
ATTENTION IS PAID TO THE NORM CHANGING PROCESSES.
4. Progress in Application
THE MODEL HAS BEEN USED both for the assessment of alternative scenarios
for future regional and global developments (under different regional conditions) as
well as in the interactive mode selection of policy options (specifically for the energy
crises issues in developed regions).
OUR EFFORTS IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE WILL BE CONCENTRATED
ON FURTHER USE OF THE ALREADY DEVELOPED MODEL. THE PLANS
INCLUDE EMPHASIS IN THE FOLLOWING THREE DIRECTIONS:
(i) Assessment in the changes over time of the span of options available to solve some
major crisis problems.
(ii) IMPLEMENTATION of the regional models in different parts of the world and
their connection via a satellite communication network for the purpose of joint
assessment of the long term global future by teams from the various regions.
(iii) Implementation of the vision for the future outlined by leaders from an
underdeveloped region in order TO ASSESS with the model EXISTING OBSTACLES
AND THE MEANS WHEREBY THE VISION MIGHT BECOME REALITY.

what you just described is exactly the same functions of the peace palace and the united nations. which settels global disputes where peace palace is the un world justice system.

wikipedia lookup
peace palace
united nations

[kappy0405]

what you just described is exactly the same functions of the peace palace and the united nations. which settels global disputes where peace palace is the un world justice system.

wikipedia lookup
peace palace
united nations

The Club of Rome was created by the same western corporate lobbying system that created the UN & ICC, etc.. So it's no coincidence that the agenda sounds so similar.

[kbeet]

The Club of Rome was created by the same western corporate lobbying system that created the UN & ICC, etc.. So it's no coincidence that the agenda sounds so similar.

for me the only true world government
is the vatican

[tinyint]

for me the only true world government
is the vatican

lol

You have the chief crazy fuckers at home, in the US, at EU(slaves to US) and UN level.
Wake up man, you have been utterly deceived by your media.
Vatican have long lost their vast influence. Vatican is in decline and mainly draw power from the "3rd" world.

The perpetrators are the anglo-saxon and zionazi establishments in the west.
You have the NWO since at least half a century.

[kbeet]

lol

You have the chief crazy fuckers at home, in the US, at EU(slaves to US) and UN level.
Wake up man, you have been utterly deceived by your media.
Vatican have long lost their vast influence. Vatican is in decline and mainly draw power from the "3rd" world.

The perpetrators are the anglo-saxon and zionazi establishments in the west.
You have the NWO since at least half a century.

the vatican is the true world government because the vatican is the head office of the roman catholic church.. the roman catholic church is the teachings of the church jesus christ himself created when he was a man on earth. no other Authority is higher. no mater what the world thinks.

[kappy0405]

the vatican is the true world government because the vatican is the head office of the roman catholic church.. the roman catholic church is the teachings of the church jesus christ himself created when he was a man on earth. no other Authority is higher. no mater what the world thinks.

Just a question kbeet.. Assuming you are aware of the Roman Catholic Church's past, how can you explain their actions while simultaneously believing that they are a divinely inspired & blessed system?

[kbeet]

Just a question kbeet.. Assuming you are aware of the Roman Catholic Church's past, how can you explain their actions while simultaneously believing that they are a divinely inspired & blessed system?

just go to wikipedia and look up crusade or christain crusade where it will tell you the church did one crusade to stop the murdering of christains that refused to convert to islam which has been going on for over 1000 years.
and today the cry baby muslems say that they were harassed and killd by christains..
one cruesade from christains in self defense for there lives.. after many murders by muslems.. the church acted right

[tinyint]

just go to wikipedia and look up crusade or christain crusade where it will tell you the church did one crusade to stop the murdering of christains that refused to convert to islam which has been going on for over 1000 years.
and today the cry baby muslems say that they were harassed and killd by christains..
one cruesade from christains in self defense for there lives.. after many murders by muslems.. the church acted right

I'd recommend to read something of value instead of wiki-lying-pedia.

If I remember correctly, there was the 3.crusade with Richard I. Lionheart at the lead after succeeding most feared german emperor Friedrich I. Barbarossa(his long red beard in combination with his war skills scared the hell out of the muslims). Just read up and how Richard had beheaded his muslim captives in contrast to the great Saladin who released all "Christian" crusaders so they could fight him again, iirc 5000 he released. He even sent his personal doctor to Richard when he was ill. That was a sign of respect for his enemy. The european barbarians didn't care for such things, since they were lacking not only medical knowledge.
I seriously think, you are totally misguided historically. :(

[kbeet]

I'd recommend to read something of value instead of wiki-lying-pedia.

If I remember correctly, there was the 3.crusade with Richard I. Lionheart at the lead after succeeding most feared german emperor Friedrich I. Barbarossa(his long red beard in combination with his war skills scared the hell out of the muslims). Just read up and how Richard had beheaded his muslim captives in contrast to the great Saladin who released all "Christian" crusaders so they could fight him again, iirc 5000 he released. He even sent his personal doctor to Richard when he was ill. That was a sign of respect for his enemy. The european barbarians didn't care for such things, since they were lacking not only medical knowledge.
I seriously think, you are totally misguided historically. :(

did the church ask them to.. no.

[tinyint]

did the church ask them to.. no.

Did the native americans, many aboriginee, uncountable and enslaved africans ask the church for murder and conversion by force?

I once again ask you, have "christians" in the name of jesus or muslims in the name of allah murdered more people throughout history?
The "christian" onslaught is still goin on in Iraq and Afghanistan.
A moron Bush was entitled by god to fight a new crusade and holy war, I remember.

You are completely blind on your "christian" eye. Shame on you. :mad:

[kbeet]

Did the native americans, many aboriginee, uncountable and enslaved africans ask the church for murder and conversion by force?

I once again ask you, have "christians" in the name of jesus or muslims in the name of allah murdered more people throughout history?
The "christian" onslaught is still goin on in Iraq and Afghanistan.
A moron Bush was entitled by god to fight a new crusade and holy war, I remember.

You are completely blind on your "christian" eye. Shame on you. :mad:

the church did not do that
what needs defending if its possable is islam

[tinyint]

the church did not do that
what needs defending if its possable is islam

Who did it then, o funny one?

Edit: Would you be so kind to spell better? I have quite some problems as foreign speaker to understand your posts. :confused:

[kbeet]

Who did it then, o funny one?

Edit: Would you be so kind to spell better? I have quite some problems as foreign speaker to understand your posts. :confused:

understanding.....
now where did that go

[bendoon]

I once again ask you, have "christians" in the name of jesus or muslims in the name of allah murdered more people throughout history?:

Muslims, easily.

They have been invading, slaving and raping in Europe and Africa for 1700 years.

The "christian" onslaught is still goin on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

What on Earth is that to do with Christianity, honestly tiny, I thought a lot better of you than that. :(

[tinyint]

Muslims, easily.

They have been invading, slaving and raping in Europe and Africa for 1700 years.



What on Earth is that to do with Christianity, honestly tiny, I thought a lot better of you than that. :(

I blame the fake and dishonest self proclaimed good christians, who George W and his ilk stand for.

I disagree about muslims taking the lead. Europeans, spanish, portugese, english killed far more. And usually they all claimed in the name of god and jesus christ. I may remind you about the Thirty Years' War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which devastated and almost depopulated vast areas of germany? (Swedish) protestants fought against the catholic emperor. The cruelty of this war is still alive in the elderly who tell their grandchildren about some infamous tortures.
I think we all should of learned something from our european bloody indeed history.
I dislike "christian" hypocrisy, and secondly we have a good proportion of muslims in our country. Religious clashes is the last thing we need. We should stand together actually, there are others(we agree on) who generously exploit the division.

[kbeet]

I blame the fake and dishonest self proclaimed good christians, who George W and his ilk stand for.

I disagree about muslims taking the lead. Europeans, spanish, portugese, english killed far more. And usually they all claimed in the name of god and jesus christ. I may remind you about the 30 year war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War) which devastated and almost depopulated vast areas of germany? (Swedish) protestants fought against the catholic emperor. The cruelty of this war is still alive in the elderly who tell their grandchildren about some infamous tortures.
I think we all should of learned something from our european bloody indeed history.
I dislike "christian" hypocrisy, and secondly we have a good proportion of muslims in our country. Religious clashes is the last thing we need. We should stand together actually, there are others(we agree on) who generously exploit the division.

i seen on some news and political sites that say islamic terrorist want to control the world with islam as the primary religion. i dont know how true this is but if.. if it is true. then we are headed for nukes. dont you think that if the terrorist get there hands on nukes that they wont even blink when they hit the red button. thats part of the reason for this war. the other part is the terrorist wont stop unless they are stoped. . remember i sead .. if.. this is true

[tinyint]

i seen on some news and political sites that say islamic terrorist want to control the world with islam as the primary religion. i dont know how true this is but if.. if it is true. then we are headed for nukes. dont you think that if the terrorist get there hands on nukes that they wont even blink when they hit the red button. thats part of the reason for this war. the other part is the terrorist wont stop unless they are stoped. . remember i sead .. if.. this is true

Omg, I dont know what to say. :eek::confused:

You see, possibly only a small minority would disagree that it was even better to disarm the nukes of the biggest terrorist of all, that being USA and Israel.

I don't really know what kind of crap you read and what goes on in your propaganda polluted mind.
But one thing is for sure, your sources are biased and they poison your heart and mind.

[kbeet]

Omg, I dont know what to say. :eek::confused:

You see, possibly only a small minority would disagree that it was even better to disarm the nukes of the biggest terrorist of all, that being USA and Israel.

I don't really know what kind of crap you read and what goes on in your propaganda polluted mind.
But one thing is for sure, your sources are biased and they poison your heart and mind.

i dident say its true. i sead if its true
i only know what i read. but this i know is true. bin laden attacked new york to punnish america for interfearing in the muslem world.
and because the wtc was a big threat to the muslem world
http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=689

[tinyint]

i dident say its true. i sead if its true
i only know what i read. but this i know is true. bin laden attacked new york to punnish america for interfearing in the muslem world.
and because the wtc was a big threat to the muslem world
http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=689

:rolleyes::rolleyes::(:mad::eek:

[kbeet]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::(:mad::eek:

thagann ciall roimh aois

[kappy0405]

just go to wikipedia and look up crusade or christain crusade where it will tell you the church did one crusade to stop the murdering of christains that refused to convert to islam which has been going on for over 1000 years.
and today the cry baby muslems say that they were harassed and killd by christains..
one cruesade from christains in self defense for there lives.. after many murders by muslems.. the church acted right

Sorry bud, I don't rely on wikipedia. For one, the Muslims liberated Jews and other Christians from Roman suppression when they captured the Holy Land and for the most part maintained that sense of egalitarianism throughout their control of the area. One Crusade!? No, you have the brutal murder and suppression of Pagans & Gnostics in the first few centuries, the Albigensian Crusade and genocide of the Cathars, the 3 Crusades in the Holy Land in which they tried to oust the Muslims, brutally killing millions in the process along with acts of cannibalism and beheading of women and children, then you have the numerous wars throughout Europe leading up to the forming of the British Empire as well ast he various Inquisitions.

And all that is just the tip of the iceberg...

[kappy0405]

What on Earth is that to do with Christianity, honestly tiny, I thought a lot better of you than that. :(

That's kind of the point: evil people misrepresent religion.

[kbeet]

Sorry bud, I don't rely on wikipedia. For one, the Muslims liberated Jews and other Christians from Roman suppression when they captured the Holy Land and for the most part maintained that sense of egalitarianism throughout their control of the area. One Crusade!? No, you have the brutal murder and suppression of Pagans & Gnostics in the first few centuries, the Albigensian Crusade and genocide of the Cathars, the 3 Crusades in the Holy Land in which they tried to oust the Muslims, brutally killing millions in the process along with acts of cannibalism and beheading of women and children, then you have the numerous wars throughout Europe leading up to the forming of the British Empire as well ast he various Inquisitions.

And all that is just the tip of the iceberg...

in wikipedia you are able to discus and edit wikipedias content for a very good reason. to keep half truths and lies and conspiracys out.
wikipedia is history. from all sources. ill take wikipedias word for it befor i even read what some people want it to be which is the only place it exist.

[tinyint]

in wikipedia you are able to discus and edit wikipedias content for a very good reason. to keep half truths and lies and conspiracys out.
wikipedia is history. from all sources. ill take wikipedias word for it befor i even read what some people want it to be which is the only place it exist.

Who owns wikipedia and who exactly censors, oops edits? :rolleyes:

I need a break from your naive views.
These are the posts, when I come close to losing any hope for humanity.

I leave the rest to kappy to answer.

[triad]

Good. Just *google* a verb which noun is a jew owned corporation.
Every single search on *google* has the 3 entries 3 as payed ads.
You goym. They even tell you, they put a google on your gentiles head.
Wikipedia at least has some freedom.
Wikileaks rules.

Oh, keep on fearing the muslims... they are as bad as the communists were.

It is a PUN.

[kappy0405]

in wikipedia you are able to discus and edit wikipedias content for a very good reason. to keep half truths and lies and conspiracys out.
wikipedia is history. from all sources. ill take wikipedias word for it befor i even read what some people want it to be which is the only place it exist.

Here's an idea: Don't take anyone's word for it! Start reading and researching primary sources for yourself. You'll see that the general consensus is usually wrong.

Btw, wikipedia isn't as open and free as you'd like to think.

[kbeet]

Here's an idea: Don't take anyone's word for it! Start reading and researching primary sources for yourself. You'll see that the general consensus is usually wrong.

Btw, wikipedia isn't as open and free as you'd like to think.

i seen for myself. i was in new york on 9/11
i saw people falling and jumping from 1/4 mile up.
the rest you know. and there is no
good reason for it to target just anyone just because they can
kill more that way. whice do you choose. my views or theres

[kappy0405]

i seen for myself. i was in new york on 9/11

You keep saying this as if it proves your conspiracy theory about Muslims. This very simple logic has already been explained to you dozens of times, but the only thing being there and seeing planes crash into buildings proves is the fact that planes crashed into buildings. Your eyewitness testimony DOES NOT even begin to explain WHO did it or WHY they did it. Furthermore, even IF it could be proven that the hijackers were neo-Muslims, it still would not explain WHO hired them or WHY they hired them. Ironically, the 'muslims did it' conspiracy theory falls flat on its face on its own, by the simple fact that many of the accused are linked to the western puppet country of Saudi Arabia as well as the western puppet intelligence agency, the ISI.

The 'muslims did it' conspiracy theory has absolutely NO basis at all.

[kbeet]

Good. Just *google* a verb which noun is a jew owned corporation.
Every single search on *google* has the 3 entries 3 as payed ads.
You goym. They even tell you, they put a google on your gentiles head.
Wikipedia at least has some freedom.
Wikileaks rules.

Oh, keep on fearing the muslims... they are as bad as the communists were.

It is a PUN.

LOL
keep fearing WHAT??
i got my war wounds and terrorist hide behind women and kids befor they kill them then they kill them selves they dont even have the guts to live

[primordialman]

Vatican have long lost their vast influence. Vatican is in decline and mainly draw power from the "3rd" world.

The perpetrators are the anglo-saxon and zionazi establishments in the west.
You have the NWO since at least half a century.

Hardly the way i see things. In Australia catholics have their hands in every pie both political parties, all universities, colleges, all government depts, both state and fedral i could go on & on!
So i disagree i ve also been to europe as well for a short time, however wherever i went their are big fat catherdrals dominate and make alot of money from being tourist attractions been inside some in Germany, Austria and Italy!
Not to forget how many tourists visit the Vatican and St Peters Square itself each year its not like the Catholics church needs the money they have more than they ever need already. RC is nothing but greedy corrupt organisation and definiately NOT christ like!

[tinyint]

Hardly the way i see things. In Australia catholics have their hands in every pie both political parties, all universities, colleges, all government depts, both state and fedral i could go on & on!
So i disagree i ve also been to europe as well for a short time, however wherever i went their are big fat catherdrals dominate and make alot of money from being tourist attractions been inside some in Germany, Austria and Italy!
Not to forget how many tourists visit the Vatican and St Peters Square itself each year its not like the Catholics church needs the money they have more than they ever need already. RC is nothing but greedy corrupt organisation and definiately NOT christ like!


That why Rome have lost their power.

Look, I am not defending RCC, however I find it amusing how indoctrinated the anglo-protestant christians have become. In fact, they have become the second vatican, even the priest and the whole structure of eg the anglican church is Rome like.
They are still a big player not doubt, but there are others who infiltrated every religion.
Btw, most of the big Cathedrals are Templar cathedrals, it took Rome a long with St Peter Dome to build something equivalent.

[primordialman]

That why Rome have lost their power.

Look, I am not defending RCC, however I find it amusing how indoctrinated the anglo-protestant christians have become. In fact, they have become the second vatican, even the priest and the whole structure of eg the anglican church is Rome like.
They are still a big player not doubt, but there are others who infiltrated every religion.
Btw, most of the big Cathedrals are Templar cathedrals, it took Rome a long with St Peter Dome to build something equivalent.

Sure agreed! One English word i will shortly give you will explain everything with it you can trawl the the net and youtube for answers or books if your old fashioned & regard yourself as an intellectual that word is "Ecumencism" also see the World Council of Churches based in Zurich Switzerland for reasons as to why so many so called anglo protestants/evangelicals are now part the UnHoly Roman empire!.

[tinyint]

Sure agreed! One English word i will shortly give you will explain everything with it you can trawl the the net and youtube for answers or books if your old fashioned & regard yourself as an intellectual that word is "Ecumencism" also see the World Council of Churches based in Zurich Switzerland for reasons as to why so many so called anglo protestants/evangelicals are now part the UnHoly Roman empire!.

I don't really care for organized religion. They all will dissolve in time.
What will be left is the spiritual truth behind all perverted religions.

I only find that so called christians are full of hate against even so called christian brothers.

The only church/mosque/synagoge/temple is in your heart. :)

[primordialman]

i seen on some news and political sites that say islamic terrorist want to control the world with islam as the primary religion. i dont know how true this is but if.. if it is true. then we are headed for nukes. dont you think that if the terrorist get there hands on nukes that they wont even blink when they hit the red button. thats part of the reason for this war. the other part is the terrorist wont stop unless they are stoped. . remember i sead .. if.. this is true

Hmm Speaking of Terrorism here is some Western/Catholic/masonic/cia terrorism which predates islamic terrorism by 30 years involves bombings and maimings too at the height of cold war ofcause, you see not many islamic terrorists round in the cold war years hmm go figure since your such smart Republican american!.Operation Gladio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia many innocent pple died in these attrocities mostly italians ofcause however could conceivably happen in any western nation. Just goes to show Western intel was upto its dirty trick years before 9/11 as an inside job was first floated!.

[kbeet]

That why Rome have lost their power.

Look, I am not defending RCC, however I find it amusing how indoctrinated the anglo-protestant christians have become. In fact, they have become the second vatican, even the priest and the whole structure of eg the anglican church is Rome like.
They are still a big player not doubt, but there are others who infiltrated every religion.
Btw, most of the big Cathedrals are Templar cathedrals, it took Rome a long with St Peter Dome to build something equivalent.

the roman catholic church is not anglo catholic
it is the main primary only one true church

[tinyint]

the roman catholic church is not anglo catholic
it is the main primary only one true church

i am afraid to say: EPIC fail!
Read my post again, and try to comprehend it please.

I am confused now.
Are you a catholic or protestant fanatic?
And which church do you see as the only true one?

[reamonnk_]

Hmm Speaking of Terrorism here is some Western/Catholic/masonic/cia terrorism which predates islamic terrorism by 30 years involves bombings and maimings too at the height of cold war ofcause, you see not many islamic terrorists round in the cold war years hmm go figure since your such smart Republican american!.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio) many innocent pple died in these attrocities mostly italians ofcause however could conceivably happen in any western nation. Just goes to show Western intel was upto its dirty trick years before 9/11 as an inside job was first floated!.

Make sure you don't mention anything about Zionist Jewish bankers that have infiltrated every single organization that you have listed above. :rolleyes:

Freemasonry is Judaism. Been totally controlled by Jewish interests since at least 1776.

The CIA = The Federal Reserve Central bank of the USA's goon squad. Check the board members of the fed reserve going back to 1913.

Catholic Church= impotent clowns that are the Rothschild Jewish Criminal network's whipping boys. Rothschild took over the Vatican bank in the 19th century. Since then, the Jewish owned and run media/Hollywood has attempted to paint these clowns as "the great Satan" and even make movies and History channel doc's on the "hidden history of the Vatican" :rolleyes:

Why the F*ck are people so hesitant to call it a Jewish mafia? People already are going to think you are a kook for believing in conspiracy theories. It's not about hating Jews...It's about accurately and truthfully analyzing the current problems of the world in 2010...NOT 900 AD.

[eternal_spirit]

I'd recommend to read something of value instead of wiki-lying-pedia.

If I remember correctly, there was the 3.crusade with Richard I. Lionheart at the lead after succeeding most feared german emperor Friedrich I. Barbarossa(his long red beard in combination with his war skills scared the hell out of the muslims). Just read up and how Richard had beheaded his muslim captives in contrast to the great Saladin who released all "Christian" crusaders so they could fight him again, iirc 5000 he released. He even sent his personal doctor to Richard when he was ill. That was a sign of respect for his enemy. The european barbarians didn't care for such things, since they were lacking not only medical knowledge.
I seriously think, you are totally misguided historically. :(
Nah Kbeet is right about the crusades. Muslims where beheading Christians so some Christians decided to do the same to some Muslims for a change.
So one act of kindness and that explains all the other evils deeds lol, get real man.
You need a history lesson.

Arab barbarians, check out the Barbary pirates.
if the Catholics and co hadn't have fought off Muslims for centuries then all of Europe and the UK would have fallen to Islam a long time ago.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107066 history

[tinyint]

Nah Kbeet is right about the crusades. Muslims where beheading Christians so some Christians decided to do the same to some Muslims for a change.
So one act of kindness and that explains all the other evils deeds lol, get real man.
You need a history lesson.

Arab barbarians, check out the Barbary pirates.
if the Catholics and co hadn't have fought off Muslims for centuries then all of Europe and the UK would have fallen to Islam a long time ago.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107066 history

ES, we won't agree on muslims. I said once to you, that I think, you pour unnecessarily water on the propaganda mills, I have not changed my opinion so far.
Islam has its flaws, but you also are blind for "christian" madness.
I dont recognize somebody who supports war or killing to be "christian" but an hypocrite.
All 3 book religions are the problem, finger pointing won't help, since its all the same source.
Don't let us discuss NT on this thread.

ES, I am a bit disappointed, your posts on the one hand are usually informative and factual, but sometimes you simply mix it with ultra christian nutter propaganda, which could of come straight from FOX news. :(

I am not interested to continue with you on this level, you simply can't whitewash crusades.