bin laden is a virus. and poisonds muslems minds

[kbeet]

i dont hate muslems in general. but i find it hard to trust them. due to the content of the link below. lets not forget it was on the news a few years ago about muslems in the usa being told that its ok to lie to americans. muslems were interviewed on the news live who admited it and agreed with it.. not sure if it was properganda by bin laden to promote distrust of muslems in the usa in order to keep muslems in the usa from sideing with america by use if distrust.

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm

that terrorist from bridgport connecticut who planted a faild car bomb in times square new york so you tell me in view of all this how can i trust muslems. another link with a story on how its ok to lie to non muslems
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm
this is part of why i am undecided if i should trust any muslem. its there religion you know.
the sha tells them to lie to non muslems they will

[kappy0405]

i dont hate muslems in general. but i find it hard to trust them. due to the content of the link below. lets not forget it was on the news a few years ago about muslems in the usa being told that its ok to lie to americans. muslems were interviewed on the news live who admited it and agreed with it.. not sure if it was properganda by bin laden to promote distrust of muslems in the usa in order to keep muslems in the usa from sideing with america by use if distrust.

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm

that terrorist from bridgport connecticut who planted a faild car bomb in times square new york so you tell me in view of all this how can i trust muslems. another link with a story on how its ok to lie to non muslems
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm
this is part of why i am undecided if i should trust any muslem. its there religion you know.
the sha tells them to lie to non muslems they will

If that's the criteria, you could generalize about every different group of people on the planet in a negative manner. Every group has its bad apples who misrepresent the group as a whole. Unfortunately, due to the state that the world is in, many Muslims are identifying with the bad & presuming things without a proper understanding, which in turn is causing non-Muslims to see a distorted view and generalize/presume themselves.

[tinyint]

Bin Laden and Al-CIAda mainly poisoned the minds of the western people, since both are US/CIA assets.
Your post seems to be proof and you fell for the deception.

[kbeet]

i hate it. i hate not being sure with all that i seen and heard.
yes i know there are muslems that are not like that.
and renounce the jihad. alqueda and bin laden and the sha are muslems worst enimy. they are also the worst enimy to islam
and islam needs new leedership. because terrorist use it to put value to there attacks and the jihad. in fact they are using god.

[tinyint]

i hate it. i hate not being sure with all that i seen and heard.
yes i know there are muslems that are not like that.
and renounce the jihad. alqueda and bin laden and the sha are muslems worst enimy. they are also the worst enimy to islam
and islam needs new leedership. because terrorist use it to put value to there attacks and the jihad. in fact they are using god.

Please wake the fuck up.
The terrorism is spread and financed by the western intel agencies(CIA,Mossad,MI5 or BND) by drafting muslim people who have nothing to lose and indeed think they do it for allah. Sometimes these claimed terrorist prove to be not even arab, but eg Israeli.

Muslims are not our enemy, the zionazis are. To every human being.

[kbeet]

Please wake the fuck up.
The terrorism is spread and financed by the western intel agencies(CIA,Mossad,MI5 or BND) by drafting muslim people who have nothing to lose and indeed think they do it for allah. Sometimes these claimed terrorist prove to be not even arab, but eg Israeli.

Muslims are not our enemy, the zionazis are. To every human being.

so your saying its there islam religion that agrees with jihad and terror
and that the cia suports terror as well as finance it.
your off your nut

[tinyint]

so your saying its there islam religion that agrees with jihad and terror
and that the cia suports terror as well as finance it.
your off your nut

I don't get your point.

I am saying the terrorist are the US, Israel and the west wh use muslims to build up an enemy at the home front.

You don't seem to know what Jihad means, btw. :rolleyes:

Do I talk to Wolf Blitzer from FOX "news" here?

[kbeet]

I don't get your point.

I am saying the terrorist are the US, Israel and the west wh use muslims to build up an enemy at the home front.

You don't seem to know what Jihad means, btw. :rolleyes:

thats crazy. if the usa was terrorist all terrorist would have been extinked by 2002 and there would be no muslems at all in america. so your saying usa is the cause for 9/11 and all wars in the east by creating them and making it look the other way around.

[tinyint]

thats crazy. if the usa was terrorist all terrorist would have been extinked by 2002 and there would be no muslems at all in america. so your saying usa is the cause for 9/11 and all wars in the east by creating them and making it look the other way around.

Yes, thats not crazy, its a bitter fact.
Wake up man.

Do you deny that Al Quaeda is an CIA operation named after a database?
Funnily, Al quaeda translates into "the base".
Do you deny Bin Laden is an CIA assets, and the Bush clan runs business with them?

[kappy0405]

thats crazy. if the usa was terrorist all terrorist would have been extinked by 2002 and there would be no muslems at all in america. so your saying usa is the cause for 9/11 and all wars in the east by creating them and making it look the other way around.

You should study history more and not base your historical/political views on your biases towards religion. It's no secret that America basically created the Mujahideen movement in the 80's. Without it, Afghanistan would have been secular 20+ years ago. It's also an established fact that the Pakistan ISI is essentially a CIA/MI front.

There are obviously genuine threats from extremists who misinterpret their religious scripture, but the most harmful are very easily linked to the West in most cases. It's also true that many disenfranchised Muslims identify with these western ploys and sign on without realizing who they're actually serving. There's no excuse for this, but that doesn't make the West any more innocent in the matter. On top of it, how much extremism has been motivated by the constant exploitation of the middle east by the West? This goes back over a century well before so-called Islamic extremism was really even a "problem" for the West.

[kbeet]

You should study history more and not base your historical/political views on your biases towards religion. It's no secret that America basically created the Mujahideen movement in the 80's. Without it, Afghanistan would have been secular 20+ years ago. It's also an established fact that the Pakistan ISI is essentially a CIA/MI front.

There are obviously genuine threats from extremists who misinterpret their religious scripture, but the most harmful are very easily linked to the West in most cases. It's also true that many disenfranchised Muslims identify with these western ploys and sign on without realizing who they're actually serving. There's no excuse for this, but that doesn't make the West any more innocent in the matter. On top of it, how much extremism has been motivated by the constant exploitation of the middle east by the West? This goes back over a century well before so-called Islamic extremism was really even a "problem" for the West.

but take a look at the first christain crusade and go further back
Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


there is no biases in my post
i am not biasesd but i realy do think islam needs new leedership and to destroy the koran never to read again

[tinyint]

there is no biases in my post
i am not biasesd but i realy do think islam needs new leedership and to destroy the koran never to read again

Please watch "The Arrivals (http://www.arrivals.technocrazed.com/)" and you will see they are humans just like you, me or kappy.

Where is the difference between a bible babbler and a muslim koran babbler? Both books have the same source. The koran is not something evil, its the humans who pervert scripture.
I suggest seriously you read the koran before you go on with a false belief about muslims.

[kappy0405]

there is no biases in my post
i am not biasesd but i realy do think islam needs new leedership and to destroy the koran never to read again

well, Islam does need new leadership, but the quran doesn't need to be destroyed; the false doctrines and laws that have been miscontructed from misinterpreting it should be, however. Muslims who are falling for it need a wake up call, that is true.

As for your bias, I'm referring to your denial that there is western support for certain extremist/terror circles operating in the middle east. Based on your previous generalizations, I can only assume that you're quick to assume certain things because of your opinion on Islam, which is clearly based in your spiritual biases.

[kappy0405]

Please watch "The Arrivals (http://www.arrivals.technocrazed.com/)" and you will see they are humans just like you, me or kappy.

Where is the difference between a bible babbler and a muslim koran babbler? Both books have the same source. The koran is not something evil, its the humans who pervert scripture.
I suggest seriously you read the koran before you go on with a false belief about muslims.

well said. I think the Arrivals film goes a long way towards bridging the gap between religions and gaining a proper understanding of one another.

[kbeet]

Please watch "The Arrivals (http://www.arrivals.technocrazed.com/)" and you will see they are humans just like you, me or kappy.

Where is the difference between a bible babbler and a muslim koran babbler? Both books have the same source. The koran is not something evil, its the humans who pervert scripture.
I suggest seriously you read the koran before you go on with a false belief about muslims.

i know they are people like you and me but they have been misled from day one not misled about islam. misled from what it was ment to be

[tinyint]

i know they are people like you and me but they have been misled from day one not misled about islam. misled from what it was ment to be

We should really sweep in front of our own christian door first.
Talking about being misled. I think you are a bit.

[tinyint]

well said. I think the Arrivals film goes a long way towards bridging the gap between religions and gaining a proper understanding of one another.

Yes, thats why I like the series.
I don't have to agree with every point they make, but overall its a very good attempt to unite the humans.
I find their muslim perspective rather interesting and it goes well along with many beliefs/opinions we also have or concluded.

[kbeet]

We should really sweep in front of our own christian door first.
Talking about being misled. I think you are a bit.

are christans orderd by another man to kill all non christans when and where you find them
do christans say convert or die
do christans kill who leaves christanity

[tinyint]

are christans orderd by another man to kill all non christans when and where you find them
do christans say convert or die
do christans kill who leaves christanity

Yes, yes and yes.

I recall George W. babbling about a holy war which god commanded him.

Crusades, the Cathars, the Huguenot, the Templars, Native Americans (convert or die), the witch trials and the inquisition, the list is endless.

Now tell me, which religion fanatically murdered more people?
I think you lack some history. :(

[kbeet]

Yes, yes and yes.

I recall George W. babbling about a holy war which god commanded him.

Crusades, the Cathars, the Huguenot, the Templars, Native Americans (convert or die), the witch trials and the inquisition, the list is endless.

Now tell me, which religion fanatically murdered more people?
I think you lack some history. :(

between the pale face and the native americans there was good food till somone put a fly in the soop
same way with islaM day one and on

[tinyint]

between the pale face and the native americans there was good food till somone put a fly in the soop
same way with islaM day one and on

Huh?
Can you please translate into something understandable?

Native Americans includes the middle and south american natives as well, eg the Incas.
Its estimated that approximately 20 million inhabited america before the european conquistadors arrived. I rather think, the estimation is a bit conservative.

[kappy0405]

Yes, yes and yes.

I recall George W. babbling about a holy war which god commanded him.

Crusades, the Cathars, the Huguenot, the Templars, Native Americans (convert or die), the witch trials and the inquisition, the list is endless.

Now tell me, which religion fanatically murdered more people?
I think you lack some history. :(

I love you. :):p

You seem to be one of the more reasonable & non-judgemental posters here. Kudos. :cool:

[tinyint]

I love you. :):p

You seem to be one of the more reasonable & non-judgemental posters here. Kudos. :cool:

http://www.designer-oase.com/wcf/images/smilies/verbeugen1.gif

Namaste

[kbeet]

Huh?
Can you please translate into something understandable?

Native Americans includes the middle and south american natives as well, eg the Incas.
Its estimated that approximately 20 million inhabited america before the european conquistadors arrived. I rather think, the estimation is a bit conservative.

do you talk to your self

[tinyint]

do you talk to your self

I get the impression I talk to a rubber wall.
I seriously didn't understand your sentence, not everyone speaks stupid english natively.

[kbeet]

islam was not a bad faith from the begining they believed in god like christans did till some time later when there leeder started a law to kill all non muslems that will not convert. thats true history. what ever else was added dont mater. it was caused by this
and today is the same thing non muslems are regarded as kaufers what ever that is. we should get back to square one and start over and disregard the laws of mohamid and go back to the origional laws of islam when it was a religion of peace.

[tinyint]

islam was not a bad faith from the begining they believed in god like christans did till some time later when there leeder started a law to kill all non muslems that will not convert. thats true history. what ever else was added dont mater. it was caused by this
and today is the same thing non muslems are regarded as kaufers what ever that is. we should get back to square one and start over and disregard the laws of mohamid and go back to the origional laws of islam when it was a religion of peace.

There seems to be no cure for this poisoned and distorted view.
Are you an US christian right wing fundamentalist?
If yes, this conversation is pointless.

[coco]

There seems to be no cure for this poisoned and distorted view.
Are you an US christian right wing fundamentalist?
If yes, this conversation is pointless.

From my previous experience with the gentleman, he is.

EDIT: I've been 'debating' with mindsets such as this recently. I tire of it.

[tinyint]

From my previous experience with the gentleman, he is.

EDIT: I've been 'debating' with mindsets such as this recently. I tire of it.

Ah thanks for clearing this up.

My intuition wasn't that wrong then. :)

PS: take a break from it, sometimes it can be really energy draining.

[kbeet]

and you know what im talking about
saying you dont as a cop out dont bother me

[nicolaj]

are christans orderd by another man to kill all non christans when and where you find them
do christans say convert or die
do christans kill who leaves christanity

No Christ never taught that

but Mohammeds god does

[loveisthelaw]

No Christ never taught that

but Mohammeds god does

Really? Where?

[nicolaj]

Walid Shoebat - For the Cause of Allah - YouTube

[superearther]

so your saying its there islam religion that agrees with jihad and terror
and that the cia suports terror as well as finance it.
your off your nut

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

no your off your nut simply because the media is controlling your thought process and conditioning your thought patterns with this bullshit

[kbeet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LitlfQmOBIg

no your off your nut simply because the media is controlling your thought process and conditioning your thought patterns with this bullshit

what i saw in new york on 9/11 did not come from the media

[kbeet]

now i remember this. 1987 the sha made islam the old ways. 1988 kadaffy. the shiets. and the rest of it. sadam insane in the gulf war. a blank here..
9/11 afgannastan iragh now iran. and israel at hossabella. some i missed here i know.. fill in the blanks. 1999 a threat from bin laden. when did it start. maybe from ayatollakockamainie. oh... he came after the sha. then kadaffy.
its the old islam.. they converted to it. the radical islam. so all this time the religion of peace sits all these years ready to use the hiden parts untill needed. which do you choose. this.. or my theory that islam was changed a litle at a time in the past 1500 years it existed. its like i sead. it was poisend.. or do you perfer that it is today the cway it started

[nicolaj]

3 stages of jihad

US military intelligence analysts have also discovered the three stages of Jihad. Firstly, the “Meccan”, which involves a small number of Muslims, integrating themselves by peaceful and political means, into a non-Muslim country. In Britain, we have the Muslim Council of Britain, which represents the Meccan stage of Islamification. Secondly comes the Preparation phase, in which the influential minority becomes more radical. This secret Pentagon briefing paper actually cites the current situation in the UK and the Netherlands, as being an example of this. Finally, comes the “Medina” phase, which involves an armed uprising against the host country. As the UK is currently in the Preparation phase, it can only be said that full Jihad will not be long in coming.

As the Pentagon finally sees the light, and has now begun to view the religion of Islam for what it is, when defining strategic plans in the War on Terror, will the New Labour government follow suit? Of course not. The pandering to the Muslim minority in Britain will continue. The British people, in four years time will have to face the indomitable truth.

That truth is a simple choice - do we and accept foreign rule from a medieval and barbaric religion or should we make a stand? Should we fight to win against the forces of Jihad? Should we try and win back our country from those that would steal it from us?

..............
found this post^ on another forum, I don't know how people can ignore the threat of world jihad, why are people focused on this ptb don't they know above the 33rd mason their religion is Islam? do they really think islam as changed, it's always been a religion of control and death, from it's beginning and so as it's maker.

Islam will only change when the koran changes which will be never, we must wait until Christ returns and destroys it, just like it is prophesied, but first we have their mehdi and false Jesus to live through, their mehdi will call for jihad around the globe, the middle east besides Israel belongs to Islam, now Islam who once was wounded with the death of the ottomen empire, now the beast as risen again and on the prowl, because he knows his time is short.




Our God of the Bible is loving and is love, he gives us eternal life.

Allah is the most proud one!

Allah is the great deceiver!

Allah is the destroyer!

Allah is the god of this world and the underworld

Some of the names of Allah, what kind of god woud be a deciver and proud, I only know one proud one and that is Satan and he fell because of it!

God hates pride. Christ didn't come to destroy he came to give eternal life. Satan is the god of this world and underworld..and came to destroy life.


Lets review the various defining characteristics and actions of the Muslim Jesus upon his return to the earth, does this sound like our loving Jesus? No, even a child could see the difference.

1. Jesus is said to return to the earth in the last-days near a mosque in Damascus.

2. He will arrive at a time when the Mahdi and his army will be preparing to pray.

3. He will be offered to lead the prayer by the Mahdi, but will decline in direct deference to the Mahdi who Jesus declares to be the leader of the Muslims.

4. He will then pray behind the Mahdi as a subordinate.

5. He will be a faithful Muslim

6. He will make pilgrimage to Mecca.

7. He will visit Muhammad’s grave, and salute Muhammad, whereby Muhammad will return the salute from the grave.

8. He will destroy Christianity.

9. He will repeal the jizyah tax thus causing the only option for Jews and Christians to convert to Islam or die.

10. He will establish Islamic Shari’ah (Law) throughout the entire earth.

11. He will kill the Antichrist and his followers made up largely of Jews and women.

12. He will remain on the earth for roughly forty years, during which time he will marry, have children and then die.


Lucky for us the Bible tells us that their jesus(false prophet) and their mehdi(antichrist) will rule only for 7 years.

The Koran tells the Muslims the mehdi will rule for 7 years also. The first 3 1/2 years false jesus and the antichrist shall bring a false peace to the world...2nd 3 1/2 years...all hell will break out on earth for those who did not convert to Islam peacfully..The great tribulation..where non muslims will be forced to convert to islam or be beheaded..just like the bible tells us..

Though their jesus and mehdi will call for jihad around the world, and many non believer will convert and many Saints shall die by the sword of islam, we the west shall not be overtaken. And though Allah can kill our bodies he cannot destroy us, he doesn't have that kind of power!

[kappy0405]

[B]8. He will destroy Christianity.:rolleyes:

Islam reveres Christ, so one could technically say that Islam is a form of Christianity which broke away from Roman Catholicism centuries before the Protestant Reformation was even a thought in someones head.

And if Christianity requires a belief in one God/source responsible for all creation which we need to dedicate our lives towards, then it's technically a form of Islam.

Divide & Conquer ftw, eh? :rolleyes::(

[kappy0405]

3 stages of jihad

US military intelligence analysts have also discovered the three stages of Jihad.ohmagosh.

1- remaining patient & mindful of spirituality amidst all the troubles of life.
2- representing Islam truthfully, promoting it vocally and with moral actions.
3- defending oneself physically if violently threatened.

US military intelligence is in over there heads with this one! :eek:

Firstly, the “Meccan”, which involves a small number of Muslims, integrating themselves by peaceful and political means, into a non-Muslim country. In Britain, we have the Muslim Council of Britain, which represents the Meccan stage of Islamification. Secondly comes the Preparation phase, in which the influential minority becomes more radical. This secret Pentagon briefing paper actually cites the current situation in the UK and the Netherlands, as being an example of this. Finally, comes the “Medina” phase, which involves an armed uprising against the host country. As the UK is currently in the Preparation phase, it can only be said that full Jihad will not be long in coming. Oh I see. You were just making things up again. :rolleyes:

As the Pentagon finally sees the light, and has now begun to view the religion of Islam for what it isFrom what you're explaining, the Pentagon probably came up with those definitions and passed them on to Bin Laden themselves. :D

when defining strategic plans in the War on Terror, will the New Labour government follow suit? Of course not. The pandering to the Muslim minority in Britain will continue. The British people, in four years time will have to face the indomitable truth.

That truth is a simple choice - do we and accept foreign rule from a medieval and barbaric religion or should we make a stand? Should we fight to win against the forces of Jihad? Should we try and win back our country from those that would steal it from us?

..............
found this post^ on another forumActually, you guys could avoid a war with legitimate Islamic movements simply by forcing your government to stop supporting the wars in the middle east and kick the bankers out along with their imperialistic policy.

I don't know how people can ignore the threat of world jihad,probably because most people don't make naive assumptions about things they won't bother to learn about objectively.

[nicolaj]

Actually, you guys could avoid a war with legitimate Islamic movements simply by forcing your government to stop supporting the wars in the middle east and kick the bankers out along with their imperialistic policy.

Actually anyone above a 33degree mason is a muslim, so why would they stop these wars when they infact want what the koran states..the world to be Islamic.


probably because most people don't make naive assumptions about things they won't bother to learn about objectively.

because the west doens't have a clue about islam, they even believe allah is God

[kappy0405]

Actually anyone above a 33degree mason is a muslim, so why would they stop these wars when they infact want what the koran states..the world to be Islamic.That's an absurd assumption on your part with absolutely no evidence to support at all. Having a degree where they learn certain philosophies hidden within Islam doesn't make them Muslim. They do the same thing for philosophies and allegories in all religions. After all, all religons are based in the same core philosophies that Masonry uses.

because the west doens't have a clue about islam, they even believe allah is God

Allah isn't really a name, it literally means "The God", hence why Jews & Christians use the word and worship Allah too. You're struggling worse and worse with your agenda every day.

[nicolaj]

That's an absurd assumption on your part with absolutely no evidence to support at all. Having a degree where they learn certain philosophies hidden within Islam doesn't make them Muslim. They do the same thing for philosophies and allegories in all religions. After all, all religons are based in the same core philosophies that Masonry uses.



Allah isn't really a name, it literally means "The God", hence why Jews & Christians use the word and worship Allah too. You're struggling worse and worse with your agenda every day.

allah is satan the great deciever and destroyer and the most proud one.

[kappy0405]

allah is satan the great deciever and destroyer and the most proud one.

Oh my, and all this time I thought you were a Christian! Now you're saying that God is actually Satan? But you also say that Jesus is God.. So you're saying that Jesus is Satan!? :eek:

[nicolaj]

Oh my, and all this time I thought you were a Christian! Now you're saying that God is actually Satan? But you also say that Jesus is God.. So you're saying that Jesus is Satan!? :eek:


:D

is english not your mother tongue.

[tinyint]

allah is satan the great deciever and destroyer and the most proud one.

So is the christian and jewish god. There is no difference. All 3 worship satan, aka Yahweh, aka Allah, aka God.

Get a grip. :rolleyes:

[nicolaj]

So is the christian and jewish god. There is no difference. All 3 worship satan, aka Yahweh, aka Allah, aka God.

Get a grip. :rolleyes:

get an education:rolleyes:

whys that, cause mo the moon worshipper said so..

prove they are the same.

[tinyint]

get an education:rolleyes:

whys that, cause mo the moon worshipper said so..

prove they are the same.

Why? Because something doesn't fit into your narrow christian nutter picture?
Why are the 3 book religions called the 3 abrahamic religions again?

I have made points on this thread, both of you nutters chose to ignore it.

Oh the irony, when you talk about education. :)

[nicolaj]

Why? Because something doesn't fit into your narrow christian nutter picture?
Why are the 3 book religions called the 3 abrahamic religions again?

I have made points on this thread, both of you nutters chose to ignore it.

Oh the irony, when you talk about education. :)

so you can't prove it..

thought as much

[tinyint]

so you can't prove it..

thought as much

I have not seen any proof of your wild BS claims so far. :rolleyes:

Why are the 3 book religions called the 3 abrahamic religions again?

[kappy0405]

:D

is english not your mother tongue.

what!? You're the one that said "God is Satan, the great deciever"

whys that, cause mo the moon worshipper said so..

prove they are the same

Because Allah literally means "the one God". Saying that the Moon God is the same as the one God just because both titles use the word 'God' is absurd. With the same logic, God is also Osirus, Isis, and 100 other dieties because they're all 'Gods'. :D:rolleyes:

[nicolaj]

I have not seen any proof of your wild BS claims so far. :rolleyes:

Why are the 3 book religions called the 3 abrahamic religions again?

Only Muslims and non believers, believe we worship the same God.

Do you know of the Sabeans, they are mentioned in both the Bible and Koran.

take a look at their history, Mohammed used to be one.

Their rituals are identical to Islam.

I'll link stuff to you, if your interested

[kappy0405]

Only Muslims and non believers, believe we worship the same God.Anybody without a bigoted agenda knows you worship the same God, whether you agree with their prophets interpretations or not.

Do you know of the Sabeans, they are mentioned in both the Bible and Koran.

take a look at their history, Mohammed used to be one.

Their rituals are identical to Islam.

I'll link stuff to you, if your interested

The Ephraimites are mentioned in the Bible too - as heirs to Israel. They assimilated with the Arabs 6 centuries BC. Hence the links between Judaism and Islam.

Also, you're probably confusing the Sabians with the Harrians, who stole the name 3 centuries after Muhammad. The Sabians mentioned in the Quran are likely represented today by the Mandaeans.

[kbeet]

i am only trying to point out that from day one to today that islam needs to be led by god and not by mohamid. or by rules and laws man added to it

[tinyint]

Only Muslims and non believers, believe we worship the same God.

Do you know of the Sabeans, they are mentioned in both the Bible and Koran.

take a look at their history, Mohammed used to be one.

Their rituals are identical to Islam.

I'll link stuff to you, if your interested

Not really, I am sorry.
Since its simply clear that all 3 share the same source and roots.
Take the NT (and its perversion eg KJ bible, Concil of Nicea) of course out of this equation. Thats another topic.

Still the simple question remains:

Which religion fanatically murdered more people until today? Christians, Jews or Muslims?
How would you rank the three?

[nicolaj]

Not really, I am sorry.
Since its simply clear that all 3 share the same source and roots.
Take the NT (and its perversion eg KJ bible, Concil of Nicea) of course out of this equation. Thats another topic.

Still the simple question remains:

Which religion fanatically murdered more people until today? Christians, Jews or Muslims?
How would you rank the three?


Difference is in Christianty, Jesus doesn't tell us to kill in his name, or Gods name, so can Jesus be blamed for men who use Gods name to kill?
Christianty as never been about converting the world, only preaching the gospel and giving people a choice.

Islam kills because their god tells them to...so anyone who does kill in Allahs name are only doing what they are told to do. The Koran states the whole world must become Islamic. Allah demands it.

Looking back at Israels passed no it isn't perfect, whos is?
But the Jews have paid heavly for their past mistakes.
And now they are back in Israel thanks to hitler.

Today Messiaic Jews do not kill in the name of Christianity..And Jews today have a short time to go before they as a whole, well the remenant of them, that will be left after this final battle..then they also will know Christ.

Mohammed tried to preach to the Jews and Christians they laughed at him, so where killed or weak ones converted..

The only ones who took any real notice of Mohammed, where the pagan cults who already worshipped the moon god lllah..same ramadam, same praying to the kabah etc nothing really had to be change.

All Mohammed had to do was get rid of the daughters of the moon god, and change the name slighty, same with pagan Rome and many churches even today, all they did was fit Jesus around their pagan beliefs. the sun god...bal.

Christ warns the churches in Revelation what will happen to each of them for bringing in pagan worship into his church.


Also if you study the koran against the bible esp the end times they are completly opposite, yet they both fit together perfectly..

eg their mehdi will rule for 7 years, whereas the bible tells us it is the anti christ will rule for 7 years, their jesus a muslim will rule with the medhi and kill all christians and Jews unless they convert to islam. I think it's a given that the rest of the world will accept Islam. Only these two faith will not bow down to allah and mohammed knew that. The bible states the world will follow this false prophet, all but Christians..who will be killed for not worshipping the beast.



The bible even tells us the reason Christ is going to return is because Jersulam will be divided, and after these 10 nations, who we now know to be Muslim nations, will join forces together and battle against the Jews....


I know this little info won't mean anything to you, because you see them all the same, but reading the differences from the two books, it's pretty clear that the two books are talking from opposite sides of the fence..

If it is the same god as Muslims and none believers think..what He going to do fight himself.

[nicolaj]

i am only trying to point out that from day one to today that islam needs to be led by god and not by mohamid. or by rules and laws man added to it

Well the good news is according to al jazeera, 6 million Muslims are coming to Christ every year. And they are just the ones who are coming forward..many more Muslims live in fear but believe in Christ as their saviour.

Praise God

[nicolaj]

Anybody without a bigoted agenda knows you worship the same God, whether you agree with their prophets interpretations or not.



The Ephraimites are mentioned in the Bible too - as heirs to Israel. They assimilated with the Arabs 6 centuries BC. Hence the links between Judaism and Islam.

Also, you're probably confusing the Sabians with the Harrians, who stole the name 3 centuries after Muhammad. The Sabians mentioned in the Quran are likely represented today by the Mandaeans.


Abd al-Rahman ‘ibn ‘Zayd (d.798 AD) wrote:
"The polytheists used to say of the prophet and his companions ‘these are the Sabians’ comparing them to them, because the Sabians who live Jaziartal-Mawsil (today known as Iraq) would say ‘there is no God but God’." (95)

Rabi’ah ‘ibn ‘Ubbad (who lived at the same time as Mohammed) wrote:
"I saw the prophet when I was a pagan. He was saying to the people, ‘if you want to save yourselves, accept that there is no God but Allah’ At this moment I noticed a man behind him saying ‘he is a sabi.’ When I asked somebody who he was he told me he was ‘Abu Lahab, his uncle." (96)

Both ‘Ibn Jurayi (d. 767) and ‘Ata ‘ibn Abi Rabah (d.732) wrote:
"I saw the prophet when I was a pagan. He was saying to the people, ‘if you want to save yourselves, accept that there is no God but Allah’ At this moment I noticed a man behind him saying ‘he is a sabi.’ When I asked somebody who he was he told me he was ‘Abu Lahab, his uncle' Of the relationship between the Sabians who lived in Sawad (in Iraq ) and Mohammed it is mention that the polytheists of Mecca were heard to say of Mohammed "he has become a Sabian." (97)

‘Ibn Jurayi (who lived in the 8th century) wrote:
" He (Mohammed) is a Sabian" (98)

‘Abd al-Rahman ‘ibn Zayd (d798 AD) wrote:
The prophet and his companions are referred to as "these are the Sabians" comparing Mohammed to the Sabians (99)

1. The word Sabean (Sabian)
2. The etymology of the word sabiun
3. The Arab writers before 832 to 833 AD
4. The Arab writers after 833 AD
5. Conclusion

1. The word Sabian (Sabaean)

The whole debate on who the Sabians are is caused because of the following verses from the Qu'ran, the Holy Book of Islam:

2:62 "Those who believe, and the Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabeans, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve." (87)


5: 69 "Those who believe and the Jews and the Sabaeans [Sabians] and this Christians— whoever believes in Allah and the last day anddoes good they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve." (88)


2: 17 "Those who believe and those how are the Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians and the Magians [Zoroastrians] and those who set up gods (with Allah)-- Allah will decide between them on the day of resurrection for God is a Witness over all things." (89)

Below is a list of the early Islamic writers and their views on who or what the Sabians are.


‘Abd ‘Allah ‘ibn al-‘Abbas (lived about 650 AD) wrote:
The religion of the Sabians is a sect of Christianity. (114)

Ziyad ‘ibn ‘Abihi (d. 672 AD) who was the governor of Iraq during the first Umayyad caliph Mur awiyah wrote:
The Sabians believed in prophets and prayed five times daily. (115)

Mujahid ‘ibn Jarir (d 722 AD) wrote:
The Sabians have no distinctive religion and is somewhere between Judaism and Magianism. (116)

‘Ibn Abi Nujayh (d749) wrote:
The Sabians were between Judaism and Magianism. (117)

Suddi (d745 AD) also wrote:
The Sabian religion is between Judaism and Magianism. (118)

Hasan al-Basri (d728 AD) wrote:
They read the zabur (Psalms) and pray in the direction of the qiblah. He also wrote that the Sabian religion resembled the Magians and worshipped angels. (119)

Wahb ‘ibn Munabbih (d 728-732 AD) who was originally from Iran wrote:
The Sabians believe "there is no God but God" and that they do not have canonical law. (120)

‘Ata ‘ibn ‘Abi Rabah (d732 AD) wrote:
The Sabians live in “Sawad” and are not identical with the Magians, Christians, or Jews. (121)

‘Ibn Jurayi (who lived in the 8th century) also wrote:
The Sabians are in Sawad and are between the Magians, Christians, or Jews. He also wrote that the polytheists said of Mohammed “He is a Sabian”. (122)

Qatadah ‘ibn Di’amah (d736 AD) wrote:
The Sabians worshipped angels, read zabur, prayed five ritual prayers. In addition he writes that they pray to the sun. (123)

‘Abdul al-Zanad (d.747 AD) wrote:
The Sabians are from “Kutha” in Iraq, they believe in prophets, fast 30 days in a year, and pray 5 times daily towards Yaman. (124)

‘Abu Hanifah (d.767 AD) who is the founder of the Hanafite School of Islamic Law wrote:
The Sabians read zabur and are between Judaism and Christianity. (125)

‘Awza’ (d.773 AD) a representative of the ancient Syrian school of religious studies wrote:
The Sabians are between Judaism and Christianity. (126)

Malik ‘ibn ‘Anas (d795) wrote:
The Sabians are between Judaism and Christianity and they have no scriptures. (127)

Khalil ‘ibn Ahmad (d. 786-787 AD) who was in Basra before his death, wrote:
The Sabians believe they belong to the prophet Noah, they read zabur, and their religion looks like Christianity. He also states that they worship the angels. (128)

‘Abd al-Rahman ‘ibn Zayd (d. 798 AD) wrote:
The Sabians say that their religion is a religion to itself and they live near Mosul (jazirat al-mawsil) and believe in only one God. He also wrote that they have no prophet, no scriptures, and no cult yet their main belief is “there is no god but God”. He also remarked that the Sabians did not believe in the Prophet Mohammed, yet the polytheists were known to say of the Prophets and his companions “these are the Sabians” comparing them to them. (129)

‘Ahmad ‘ibn Hanbal (d. 855 AD) the ‘Iman of Baghdad wrote:
The Sabians are a sect of Christianity or Judaism. (130)

In conclusion the Sabians of the Qur’an as described were of a monotheistic belief system, which resemble Judaism, Christianity and Magianism and were located in Iraq around the areas of Mosul and Kutha. These Sabians also existed before Mohammed and it is claimed that Mohammed was at some time one of the Sabians.

The term Sabians of Harran only appears in the late 9th century. Before this date they were referred to only as Chaldeans or Harrians or Nabataeans. The later Moslem writers describe (after the Caliph al-Mamun THE DATE 832-833 AD) describe these Sabians as people who worship planets, idols, stars, and are located in the city of Harran. The Harrians adopted the name Sabians for two reasons. The first it was the Harrians who wanted to be protected from Islam because the Harrians believed in pagan rituals including HUMAN SACRIFICE. Reason two is that they were active in politics (unlike the Mandaeans) and were known to the courts of Baghdad. Thus they were able to keep portraying the lie of being the Sabians of the Qur’an. Yet the true Sabians were never forgotten. At the same time the Arab writers wrote of the Sabians of Harran they also referred to a second set of Sabians by various names and set them to live in Iraq as monotheist with a book and prophets.

No I'm not confusing the Sabians of Harran


The Sabean pagan rite of fasting began with the appearance Ramadan is the ninth and holiest month of the Muslim calendar. It begins and ends with the sighting of the crescent moon. Robert Morey notes:
“The dominant religion that had grown very powerful just before Muhammad’s time was that of the Sabeans’…They used a lunar calendar to regulate their religious rites. For example, a month of fasting was regulated by the phases of a crescent moon and did not cease until the crescent moon reappeared. This would later be adopted as one of the five pillars of Islam.”
- Robert Morey, The Islamic Invasion (Las Vegas, NV: Christian Scholars Press, 1992), p.42.



Sa´bi`an
a. 1. Of or pertaining to Saba in Arabia, celebrated for producing aromatic plants.
2. Relating to the religion of Saba, or to the worship of the heavenly bodies.
n. 1. An adherent of the Sabian religion; a worshiper of the heavenly bodies

[tinyint]

Difference is in Christianty, Jesus doesn't tell us to kill in his name, or Gods name, so can Jesus be blamed for men who use Gods name to kill?
Christianty as never been about converting the world, only preaching the gospel and giving people a choice.

Islam kills because their god tells them to...so anyone who does kill in Allahs name are only doing what they are told to do. The Koran states the whole world must become Islamic. Allah demands it.

Looking back at Israels passed no it isn't perfect, whos is?
But the Jews have paid heavly for their past mistakes.
And now they are back in Israel thanks to hitler.

Today Messiaic Jews do not kill in the name of Christianity..And Jews today have a short time to go before they as a whole, well the remenant of them, that will be left after this final battle..then they also will know Christ.

Mohammed tried to preach to the Jews and Christians they laughed at him, so where killed or weak ones converted..

The only ones who took any real notice of Mohammed, where the pagan cults who already worshipped the moon god lllah..same ramadam, same praying to the kabah etc nothing really had to be change.

All Mohammed had to do was get rid of the daughters of the moon god, and change the name slighty, same with pagan Rome and many churches even today, all they did was fit Jesus around their pagan beliefs. the sun god...bal.

Christ warns the churches in Revelation what will happen to each of them for bringing in pagan worship into his church.


Also if you study the koran against the bible esp the end times they are completly opposite, yet they both fit together perfectly..

eg their mehdi will rule for 7 years, whereas the bible tells us it is the anti christ will rule for 7 years, their jesus a muslim will rule with the medhi and kill all christians and Jews unless they convert to islam. I think it's a given that the rest of the world will accept Islam. Only these two faith will not bow down to allah and mohammed knew that. The bible states the world will follow this false prophet, all but Christians..who will be killed for not worshipping the beast.



The bible even tells us the reason Christ is going to return is because Jersulam will be divided, and after these 10 nations, who we now know to be Muslim nations, will join forces together and battle against the Jews....


I know this little info won't mean anything to you, because you see them all the same, but reading the differences from the two books, it's pretty clear that the two books are talking from opposite sides of the fence..

If it is the same god as Muslims and none believers think..what He going to do fight himself.

:rolleyes:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1059125558&postcount=19
In the name of 'god' carrying the crucifix with jesus christ ahead.


Why don't you try to answer?
If you don't want to answer, then say so.

I'll give you a clue to the ranking, 'christianity' is leading with a huge gap behind.

What bible do you refer to? I guess nasty KJ version?

Do you agree, that christianity has been perverted and corrupted? Jesus real teachings are almost not present in NT. For that you have to read the Apogrypha. Concil of Nicea, I am sure you know what happened there.

You must be joking when stating that chrisianity has no clear missionary intention.
Whole Americas was practically forced to convert, given they survived the genocide the european conquerers perpetrated.

PS: I am christian as well, but we read very different bibles. I personally advanced my spirituality not my dogmatic view on the world.

[kappy0405]

No I'm not confusing the Sabians of Harranwell sorry for assuming. It's a common and redundant argument that people use to equate Islam with moon worship.

The Sabians mentioned in the Quran were monotheists and even considered Christians by many, so I don't see what the point was in brining them up in relation to what God Islam worships. I don't doubt that Muhammad was somewhat inspired by Sabians, just like he was Judaism & Christianity. They're all monotheists worshipping the same God.

The so-called Sabians that are now equated with idol worship and astrology evolved from the Harrians.

[tinyint]

well sorry for assuming. It's a common and redundant argument that people use to equate Islam with moon worship.

The Sabians mentioned in the Quran were monotheists and even considered Christians by many, so I don't see what the point was in brining them up in relation to what God Islam worships. I don't doubt that Muhammad was somewhat inspired by Sabians, just like he was Judaism & Christianity. They're all monotheists worshipping the same God.

The so-called Sabians that are now equated with idol worship and astrology evolved from the Harrians.

Well actually, I am not sure about the monothestic thingy, at least the Torah tells you of the "Elohim"(pl. Those who came from the heavens) Some very old original german bibles also correctly told of "gods".

[kbeet]

Well the good news is according to al jazeera, 6 million Muslims are coming to Christ every year. And they are just the ones who are coming forward..many more Muslims live in fear but believe in Christ as their saviour.

Praise God

that realy #$^ ticks me off
but im glad to hear it
but again if god led islam it would be ok to

[kappy0405]

Well actually, I am not sure about the monothestic thingy, at least the Torah tells you of the "Elohim"(pl. Those who came from the heavens) Some very old original german bibles also correctly told of "gods".

well, 'im' is commonly a plural of respect in hebrew and it's used as such in other places of the OT. But I'll admit that it could be a literal use of plural, especially when considering the similarities between the OT and older polytheistic texts.

[kappy0405]

Well the good news is according to al jazeera, 6 million Muslims are coming to Christ every year. And they are just the ones who are coming forward..many more Muslims live in fear but believe in Christ as their saviour.

Praise Godthat realy #$^ ticks me off
but im glad to hear it
but again if god led islam it would be ok to

Muslims don't revert to accept Christ. It's an essential part of Islam. And just think, it remains the fastest growing religion anyway. Just imagine how many Christians must be converting to Islam every year! :eek:

[tinyint]

well, 'im' is commonly a plural of respect in hebrew and it's used as such in other places of the OT. But I'll admit that it could be a literal use of plural, especially when considering the similarities between the OT and older polytheistic texts.

I think, Luther had a vast knowledge, mastered greek, hebrew, aramaic and his very original translations were probably very close to the real message of Christ, which I think is a state of consciousness. christ consciousness. I think also Buddha had it, who share similarities with jesus's life and his claimed missing years :)

Chi Rho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PS: Luther Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Today one has to read between the lines, and at least <= version 1912 is required. :(

[kappy0405]

I think, Luther had a vast knowledge, mastered greek, hebrew, aramaic and his very original translations were probably very close to the real message of Christ, which I think is a state of consciousness. christ consciousness. I think also Buddha had it, who share similarities with jesus's life and his claimed missing years :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_Rho

PS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Bible

Today one has to read between the lines, and at least < version 1912 is required. :(

I agree with you 100% about Christ. :)

As for Luther, I think it was a bit naive for him & the Reformation movements to exclude the possibility of considering Gnostic texts and other Apocryphal writings. As a result, Protestant Bibles are ultimately still a product of Roman censorship, even if they are an improvement in many aspects. But as you said, the truth is still there & reading between the lines is what is important.

[tinyint]

I agree with you 100% about Christ. :)

As for Luther, I think it was a bit naive for him & the Reformation movements to exclude the possibility of considering Gnostic texts and other Apocryphal writings. As a result, Protestant Bibles are ultimately still a product of Roman censorship, even if they are an improvement in many aspects. But as you said, the truth is still there & reading between the lines is what is important.

Yes I absolutely agree.

On the Apogrypha and gnostic texts, I think Luther read many of them but simply couldn't include them. He was still a child of his time.
Alone that he opposed the rome was revolutionary at that time.
Anyway, he wrote a lot of little books and essays, very interesting reads.

On the Freedom of a Christian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its there, between the lines. :)

[nicolaj]

:rolleyes:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1059125558&postcount=19
In the name of 'god' carrying the crucifix with jesus christ ahead.


Why don't you try to answer?
If you don't want to answer, then say so.

I'll give you a clue to the ranking, 'christianity' is leading with a huge gap behind.

What bible do you refer to? I guess nasty KJ version?

Do you agree, that christianity has been perverted and corrupted? Jesus real teachings are almost not present in NT. For that you have to read the Apogrypha. Concil of Nicea, I am sure you know what happened there.

You must be joking when stating that chrisianity has no clear missionary intention.
Whole Americas was practically forced to convert, given they survived the genocide the european conquerers perpetrated.

PS: I am christian as well, but we read very different bibles. I personally advanced my spirituality not my dogmatic view on the world.

I'd just wrote all this out once and lost the lot..so i'll do it shorter..

I don't know how many people Christians have killed....what I ask myself is are they really Christians..I know Christ didn't tell us to kill anyone or convert people. Only to preach His good news that was all..I don't believe a man can convert a person to God..Only God can do that, I used to hate Christianity with a passion and God/Christ, no man lead me to Christ, infact just before I became a Christian, I was studying Islam and my mine was made up to convert to Islam..strange how things turn out.

I can see Christians getting it wrong, but I can't blame God or Jesus for that they aren't the evil ones here but man, if hitler was a Christian like many believe, why didn't he abide in the word. Christ didn't tell us to force people to convert or die..allah does .what kind of faith is that, nothing but a control freak.

Is that the kind of follower God is hoping for, do these Christians believe they will recieve brownie points for how many they convert under pressure..I don't think they will, but that is up to God to judge his church not me. IMO they'd get more brownie points if they bothered to study the word and stop following wolves in sheeps clothing and began leaning on the Holy Spirit instead.

I have many bibles and compare together, but I mainly use the Jewish Bible, Geneva bible and the KJV

I already wrote that Christainty is corrupted in my last post to you The corruption began as soon as Christ assended.

Though it wasn't Pagan beliefs that were added to Christianity, but Christ was added to their already pagan sun worship bal..and the two where mixed into one.

Christ even warns us in his seven letters to the churches..what was happening and how he would deal with those churches.

Now it the Concil of Nicea had been really smart they would have changed Gods words and added their pagan rituals to the bible first, before the public was allowed to own one.. but they didn't.

Since I became a Christian in 04, mainly what I used to do was visit different kinds of churches listening and watching their rituals for myself, so I could see what Gods word said against what was out there calling it's self a chruch.

I don't go anymore I've seen enough..what was shown me in the visions given me, before I became a Christian was true. I didn't know the first thing about God or the bible before this, so I need to see for myself.

Anyone who is seaching for the truth will clearly see the difference. Why didn't they bother to add all this stuff pagan stuff?

Does the bible tell us to pray to Mary of course not shes dead and so are the saints, why pray to a saint, when Christ tell us to pray in his name to the Father, are we to celebrate Christian festives that where created on pagan holidays..don't think so..Did God tell us to dress trees up, no, God alreadys as his feast days, something Christians sadly know little about.


Surprised to hear you call yourself a Christian, but pleased, I thought you hated God from one of your earlier posts..
My journey as been spiritual also for me, I would never have believed otherwise.

btw I'm english

[nicolaj]

that realy #$^ ticks me off
but im glad to hear it
but again if god led islam it would be ok to

Christiany and Islam have a completey different message..

the Koran say islam must and will destroy Christianity and it is Jesus who is coming back to do this.....so how could God really Islam led that..

It's much better imo that ex muslims come to know the love of the Christian Jesus and not the Muslim Jesus who is only coming back to kill everyone who isn't a muslim unless they convert.

[kappy0405]

Yes I absolutely agree.

On the Apogrypha and gnostic texts, I think Luther read many of them but simply couldn't include them. He was still a child of his time.
Alone that he opposed the rome was revolutionary at that time.
Anyway, he wrote a lot of little books and essays, very interesting reads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Freedom_of_a_Christian

Its there, between the lines. :)

Good points. Also, he probably didn't even have access to many of the Gnostic texts to begin with. Many of the Nag Hammadi texts were unheard of when they were discovered in the 20th Century. And don't get me wrong, I definitely admire and respect Luther. He was easily one of the great revolutionaries in history. :)

[kappy0405]

Christiany and Islam have a completey different message..

the Koran say islam must and will destroy Christianity.

Where do you come up with this stuff? As I said before, Islam is technically a form of Christianity and Christianity is basically a form of Islam, and that will be made clear eventually. Once you accept the philopshy behind the death/resurrection, you'll see that the controversey over the label "son of God" is semantics. You said you almost embraced Islam, which means you must have had a different understanding of it than you do now. At the very least, you should try and remain unbiased as you once were and start focusing on the common ground. The battle between "good and evil" can be seen as a battle between love/spirituality and materialism. Playing into the divide and conquer scheme (& even lying in some cases to do so) is not conducive to anyones spiritual path, including your own. Would Jesus condone your negative approach & constant belittlement of other believers in God? I'm sure he wouldn't.

[nicolaj]

well sorry for assuming. It's a common and redundant argument that people use to equate Islam with moon worship.

The Sabians mentioned in the Quran were monotheists and even considered Christians by many, so I don't see what the point was in brining them up in relation to what God Islam worships. I don't doubt that Muhammad was somewhat inspired by Sabians, just like he was Judaism & Christianity. They're all monotheists worshipping the same God.

The so-called Sabians that are now equated with idol worship and astrology evolved from the Harrians.

It's not really redundant though is it?

Inspired?...it's quite a bit more than that wouldn't you say?..Mohammed was a Sabean .the only thing Mohammed made changes to where lllahs/allahs daughters, they became made..redundant but not straight away.

I know he was inspred by the bible, that's common knowlegde but even then he was confused with the history of the prophets and just about everything else in the bible.

It's clear form the history of the Sebeans that this is what Islam is. He tries to tell us an angel appeared to him and showed him all this, when he was already practicing and already a Sebean himself and so was his uncle..All islam is is moon worship...it went from lllah to allah....he even mentions lllah daughters in the koran then changes his mind about them!


You've appeared to ignore the fact that Muslims at the time of Mohammeds life stated that Mohammed was a Sabean and also a family member of his.

Ziyad ‘ibn ‘Abihi (d. 672 AD) who was the governor of Iraq during the first Umayyad caliph Mur awiyah wrote:
The Sabians believed in prophets and prayed five times daily. (115)

Hasan al-Basri (d728 AD) wrote:
They read the zabur (Psalms) and pray in the direction of the qiblahkabah. He also wrote that the Sabian religion resembled the Magians and worshipped angels. (119)


Wahb ‘ibn Munabbih (d 728-732 AD) who was originally from Iran wrote:
The Sabians believe "there is no God but God" and that they do not have canonical law. (120)

Qatadah ‘ibn Di’amah (d736 AD) wrote:
The Sabians worshipped angels, read zabur, prayed five ritual prayers. In addition he writes that they pray to the sun. (123)


‘Ibn Jurayi (who lived in the 8th century) wrote:
" He (Mohammed) is a Sabian" (98)

‘Abd al-Rahman ‘ibn Zayd (d798 AD) wrote:
The prophet and his companions are referred to as "these are the Sabians" comparing Mohammed to the Sabians (99)

Rabi’ah ‘ibn ‘Ubbad (who lived at the same time as Mohammed) wrote:
"I saw the prophet when I was a pagan. He was saying to the people, ‘if you want to save yourselves, accept that there is no God but Allah’ At this moment I noticed a man behind him saying ‘he is a sabi.’ When I asked somebody who he was he told me he was ‘Abu Lahab, his uncle." (96)


The Sabean pagan rite of fasting began with the appearanceRamadan is the ninth and holiest month of the Muslim calendar. It begins and ends with the sighting of the crescent moon. Robert Morey notes:
“The dominant religion that had grown very powerful just before Muhammad’s time was that of the Sabeans’…They used a lunar calendar to regulate their religious rites. For example, a month of fasting was regulated by the phases of a crescent moon and did not cease until the crescent moon reappeared. This would later be adopted as one of the five pillars of Islam.”
- Robert Morey, The Islamic Invasion (Las Vegas, NV: Christian Scholars Press, 1992), p.42.


show me the difference between islam and the sabeans..

pity we can't get to find out if the sabeans believed satan was hiding up their noses, or satan urinated in their ears if they didn't pray

[tinyint]

I'd just wrote all this out once and lost the lot..so i'll do it shorter..

I don't know how many people Christians have killed....what I ask myself is are they really Christians..I know Christ didn't tell us to kill anyone or convert people. Only to preach His good news that was all..I don't believe a man can convert a person to God..Only God can do that, I used to hate Christianity with a passion and God/Christ, no man lead me to Christ, infact just before I became a Christian, I was studying Islam and my mine was made up to convert to Islam..strange how things turn out.

I can see Christians getting it wrong, but I can't blame God or Jesus for that they aren't the evil ones here but man, if hitler was a Christian like many believe, why didn't he abide in the word. Christ didn't tell us to force people to convert or die..allah does .what kind of faith is that, nothing but a control freak.

Is that the kind of follower God is hoping for, do these Christians believe they will recieve brownie points for how many they convert under pressure..I don't think they will, but that is up to God to judge his church not me. IMO they'd get more brownie points if they bothered to study the word and stop following wolves in sheeps clothing and began leaning on the Holy Spirit instead.

I have many bibles and compare together, but I mainly use the Jewish Bible, Geneva bible and the KJV

I already wrote that Christainty is corrupted in my last post to you The corruption began as soon as Christ assended.

Though it wasn't Pagan beliefs that were added to Christianity, but Christ was added to their already pagan sun worship bal..and the two where mixed into one.

Christ even warns us in his seven letters to the churches..what was happening and how he would deal with those churches.

Now it the Concil of Nicea had been really smart they would have changed Gods words and added their pagan rituals to the bible first, before the public was allowed to own one.. but they didn't.

Since I became a Christian in 04, mainly what I used to do was visit different kinds of churches listening and watching their rituals for myself, so I could see what Gods word said against what was out there calling it's self a chruch.

I don't go anymore I've seen enough..what was shown me in the visions given me, before I became a Christian was true. I didn't know the first thing about God or the bible before this, so I need to see for myself.

Anyone who is seaching for the truth will clearly see the difference. Why didn't they bother to add all this stuff pagan stuff?

Does the bible tell us to pray to Mary of course not shes dead and so are the saints, why pray to a saint, when Christ tell us to pray in his name to the Father, are we to celebrate Christian festives that where created on pagan holidays..don't think so..Did God tell us to dress trees up, no, God alreadys as his feast days, something Christians sadly know little about.


Surprised to hear you call yourself a Christian, but pleased, I thought you hated God from one of your earlier posts..
My journey as been spiritual also for me, I would never have believed otherwise.

btw I'm english

This is a quite reasonable post.

Out of curiosity, how old are you, if I may ask? You became baptized in 2004? And why did you look for a religion, or did you convert?
Me wasn't asked about being baptized but I actually don't mind it. :D
Anyway, I have not been to church for at least 15 years, and before sparely.
Even though I consider myself still a christian, but I plan to leave the institution church as well, as the state automatically collects church tax. So much for we are secular, at least here.

I think you need to take the zionist state, and the general catastrophic situation in the middle east region into account, when considering many of todays muslims. It not a really a religious thing, no its a money thing. Considering the constant messing of the western powers in that region during that last centuries and the wild drawing of borders by the colonial powers produced the situation we currently have. The same can be observed in Africa.
Fanatism is in every of the 3 book religions very present today in form of its followers, by misguided blind followers of some old dusty writings. We are supposed to be here to develop, this means a constant revision of all things we do and know.

I never liked the OT, because of this different, evil wrath god.
OT and NT don't fit together and oppose each other.
There you may have your answer as to why there are 2 factions battling on earth since thousands of years on our backs. ;)

Concerning god.
I think there is no god, other than the neutral vortex ether. :eek::D
'God' is so to speak within us, the little spark in your heart where truth comes from, and it is in every single human being, animals, plants and in mattter generally. Many unfortunately don't know this.
Thats why we should value life and our nature, to respect 'god' or creation.

Have you read the koran? I think that the koran is in some ways spiritually advanced.
Have you watched "The Arrivals"? I think the message is great.

[kappy0405]

All islam is is moon worship...it went from lllah to allah....llah means an idol or a god, Allah means the one God. There's a big difference.

As I said before, saying that the word 'God' makes Allah a copy cat of all other 'Gods' is absurd. The same thing could be said about the 'God' of the Bible.

You've appeared to ignore the fact that Muslims at the time of Mohammeds life stated that Mohammed was a Sabean and also a family member of his.Why does this even matter since the Sabians were monotheists in the same light as Judaism & Christianity?

Sabian also means 'one who has converted'. It doesn't always refer to the Sabian sect, and again, even if he was in that context, it's irrelevant because Islam is monotheism and has always said that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the same religion at their core.

pity we can't get to find out if the sabeans believed satan was hiding up their noses, or satan urinated in their ears if they didn't prayThis is the type of shite that just makes you look ridiculous. We could find equally strange statements in the Bible that sound retarded when taken literally.

[nicolaj]

Where do you come up with this stuff? As I said before, Islam is technically a form of Christianity and Christianity is basically a form of Islam, and that will be made clear eventually. Once you accept the philopshy behind the death/resurrection, you'll see that the controversey over the label "son of God" is semantics. You said you almost embraced Islam, which means you must have had a different understanding of it than you do now. At the very least, you should try and remain unbiased as you once were and start focusing on the common ground. The battle between "good and evil" can be seen as a battle between love/spirituality and materialism. Playing into the divide and conquer scheme (& even lying in some cases to do so) is not conducive to anyones spiritual path, including your own. Would Jesus condone your negative approach & constant belittlement of other believers in God? I'm sure he wouldn't.


Have you actually ever studied the endtime of Islam and the bibles end times?
Islam is a million miles apart from Christanity.

How can they be the same when they say opposite to each other?
How can I cause a division that is already there..I'm just pointing it out to people..


The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace_be_upon_him). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyahAllah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him

When the Muslim Jesus comes back do you really think that the world will roll over and simply say ok...we shall become muslim...no they won't, it will be a bloodbath. I've already seen it in the visions .studying these last 6 years have shown me that both books have only confirmed to me that this will happen..This verse states Isa will fight the people.

So Isa will abolish the jizyah...that means Islam will no longer even allow the non muslims to pay the tax to live on muslims land.....What does that tell you.....convert to islam or what? because there will no longer be a tax you can pay..

Do you think if Christians all around the world thought Mohammed was actually a prophet of God they wouldn't have already converted. Of course they would. But the Bible gives clear instuctions how to test a spirit and Mohammed fails the test..100% that is why there are still Christians and Jews.

Jesus already told his mission was complete, nothing else could be added..

He didn't forget to tell us anything. we want.. what could he have forgot..tell us to watch out because satan is hiding up our noses while we sleep?

that a muslim woman must breast feed grown men 10 times each so she can accept these men into her family and the men shall no longer lust over that woman.

Answer me why will Allah write the names of the men a women has sex with on her vagina? what kind of messages are these?

The bible doesn't talk of such things. So why would God start change..when the Bible states a number of times God does not change.




take a look over in the religion section Muslims already know..Christnity is going to be destroyed..I know and I'm a Christian.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128341

[tinyint]

Where do you come up with this stuff? As I said before, Islam is technically a form of Christianity and Christianity is basically a form of Islam, and that will be made clear eventually. Once you accept the philopshy behind the death/resurrection, you'll see that the controversey over the label "son of God" is semantics. You said you almost embraced Islam, which means you must have had a different understanding of it than you do now. At the very least, you should try and remain unbiased as you once were and start focusing on the common ground. The battle between "good and evil" can be seen as a battle between love/spirituality and materialism. Playing into the divide and conquer scheme (& even lying in some cases to do so) is not conducive to anyones spiritual path, including your own. Would Jesus condone your negative approach & constant belittlement of other believers in God? I'm sure he wouldn't.

Excellent.
Jesus(Isa) was gods prophet according to koran.
Prophets are sent to every peoples on earth who stem from the peoples he sent the prophet. koran knows about 25 prophets, including Abbraham(Ibrahim) and Moses(Musa) but does't say thats all of the prophets, since all peoples have a prophet.

Now give the prophet christ consciousness(ascended masters) and replace god/allah with vortex ether. :)

[kappy0405]

Have you actually ever studied the endtime of Islam and the bibles end times?
Islam is a million miles apart from Christanity.

How can they be the same when they say opposite to each other?
How can I cause a division that is already there..I'm just pointing it out to people..

.........

...

Of course I have. The two are only in opposition from the biased perspective in which you distort everything related to Islam. The two say close to the exact same things about what is to come..

For the rest of your post, I have to point out again that Islam is technically a form of Christianity and vice versa. Sure, many Muslims don't see it that way because they're just as biased in their perspective as you are, but that doesn't change the fact either.

Also, nobody is saying that Jesus came with an incomplete message. Islam only challenges Romes version of events and literal dogma.

[kbeet]

forget about yesterday or 2000 years ago. forget about who did what. what is needed is now. whats is more importaint is tomorrow. its time to shape up.
that tiume was long ago. and long ago somone sead the same thing im saying now. we all need new govnorment. and start fresh. by canceling anything befor then that is pending. and theres nuthig else to do about today but keep killing and terrorizing. and no one giving in.

[nicolaj]

This is a quite reasonable post.

Out of curiosity, how old are you, if I may ask? You became baptized in 2004? And why did you look for a religion, or did you convert?
Me wasn't asked about being baptized but I actually don't mind it. :D
Anyway, I have not been to church for at least 15 years, and before sparely.
Even though I consider myself still a christian, but I plan to leave the institution church as well, as the state automatically collects church tax. So much for we are secular, at least here.

I think you need to take the zionist state, and the general catastrophic situation in the middle east region into account, when considering many of todays muslims. It not a really a religious thing, no its a money thing. Considering the constant messing of the western powers in that region during that last centuries and the wild drawing of borders by the colonial powers produced the situation we currently have. The same can be observed in Africa.
Fanatism is in every of the 3 book religions very present today in form of its followers, by misguided blind followers of some old dusty writings. We are supposed to be here to develop, this means a constant revision of all things we do and know.

I never liked the OT, because of this different, evil wrath god.
OT and NT don't fit together and oppose each other.
There you may have your answer as to why there are 2 factions battling on earth since thousands of years on our backs. ;)

Concerning god.
I think there is no god, other than the neutral vortex ether. :eek::D
'God' is so to speak within us, the little spark in your heart where truth comes from, and it is in every single human being, animals, plants and in mattter generally. Many unfortunately don't know this.
Thats why we should value life and our nature, to respect 'god' or creation.

Have you read the koran? I think that the koran is in some ways spiritually advanced.
Have you watched "The Arrivals"? I think the message is great.


You know I miss church for the fellowship and I have met some really lovely Christians, but how can I stay in a church that is false that the pastors are teaching their flocks differently, when I've tried to question them, I was told what would I know I haven't been a Christian long enough and they have.

I would love nothing more than to find a church.

I do some bible study with a group of nurses sometimes..but even that I find hard esp when I tried telling them about the nephilin..lol..so I mainly study alone now.
I married a Turkish Muslim I have many Muslim friends from the ME also and also here in England. So I learnt quite alot from them over the years..and if I ask my Syrian friend something they can't answer, they ask their cleric..I did once own the koran but have got rid of it..but still study online, but now it's only to fit in the peices with the bibles endtimes against Islam's. It fascinates me how well they fit together literally, but are opposite. I began to watch the arrivals, but had to turn it off.

The more I used to hear about Islam I thought why not become one, most the people I know are muslim.. yet I didn't believe in allah or God, it was like I knew in my heart there was something, someone who had created me and the world, but I didn't know what or who he was.

Then one night in April 04 I began recieving visions which lasted for 3 days I knew straight way who God and Christ was.
I knew also how much I was loved and had always been loved and told I would be safe thoughout with what I was going to be shown.

So after that I had to go out and buy myself a bible and start going to churches..I've never found one yet that I could say..yes, I got baptized in 07 I wanted to be baptized straight away.. like they did in the bible..but churches don't seem to do that anymore, I had to do quite a few christian courses and attend church..answer questions, why I wanted to do this etc..
All to be baptized:rolleyes:

I have to beg to differ on Israel...though I know the rulers behind the scene are not of Abrahams seed, though they call themselves Jews they are not.

These rulers are fulfilling Gods word, to bring about the end, and because of their evil, they shall bring about their own ruin.

They are roiling the Muslims and the Muslims will retalate. These rulers work both sides.

Just like Hitler through his evil, he paved the way for the Jews to return. Without him they would still be scattered. So he fulfilled Gods word, he didn't realise it would though. But God always uses the evil of man to do his will.

I personally love the OT, I enjoy studying prophecy and there is still prophecy in the OT that hasn't been fulfilled yet. I only see both halves fitting together perfectly.

Gods wrath is mentioned in the NT also which matches exactly with Gods wrath in the unfulfilled wrath in the OT.
The first book I ever studied was Jeremiah with this dear old nun..tbh at first it made me kind of...what the hell! but I stuck with it..and have come to understand why God did what he did and have completely accepted Gods will. At first I couldn't understand why God would need Animals to be scarificed, now I do.

I know many people can't accept the bible, thats what freewill is a choice. It should never be forced, that isn't a law of Gods.

Never heard of the neutral vortex ether, but I do agree that God writes his laws, so too speak in everyones heart, to know there is a creator..like myself i guess..i knew there was a something or someone..but didn't know who.

When I was a teenager I used to dabble with spirits that weren't very nice to me. Then I got involved with the spiritual church movement..then left all that in my twenties and just got on with life, but would still be attacked every now and again..and of course I used to mock God every chance I had.

I'm in my 40's now, how old are you?
What country to you live in? I knew of someone in Germany who had to pay this kind of tax to the church...it's totally wrong.

You class yourself as a Christian do me mean that you believe Christ paid for you sins..I'd be delighted if you do though surprised :D

please excuse my typos i'm tired..

[nicolaj]

Of course I have. The two are only in opposition from the biased perspective in which you distort everything related to Islam. The two say close to the exact same things about what is to come..

For the rest of your post, I have to point out again that Islam is technically a form of Christianity and vice versa. Sure, many Muslims don't see it that way because they're just as biased in their perspective as you are, but that doesn't change the fact either.

Also, nobody is saying that Jesus came with an incomplete message. Islam only challenges Romes version of events and literal dogma.

we will have to differ. But I know we shall see world jihad in our life time.

Christs blood is the main difference..they can't accept that a man could pay someone elses sins with his blood...fine they don't accept it...I agree with freewill.

Yet they believe if they die in the name of allah,eg killing for allah.. just one drop of their blood will save them from hell and gain them entry into their paradise..




can you see my point or not..i am not trying to argue with you..this is just one major flaw in there thinking pattern..

pease explain this.
whats the difference?

[kbeet]

we will have to differ. But I know we shall see world jihad in our life time.

Christs blood is the main difference..they can't accept that a man could pay someone elses sins with his blood...fine they don't accept it...I agree with freewill.

Yet they believe if they die in the name of allah,eg killing for allah.. just one drop of their blood will save them from hell and gain them entry into their paradise..




can you see my point or not..i am not trying to argue with you..this is just one major flaw in there thinking pattern..

pease explain this.
whats the difference?

thats because they follow the laws of mohamid and not god
no where in the bible it says if you murder for me you go to heaven

[kappy0405]

thats because they follow the laws of mohamid and not god
no where in the bible it says if you murder for me you go to heaven

They don't go to heaven for murdering. They can get to the next life for sacrificing their material desires for God/spirituality.

we will have to differ. But I know we shall see world jihad in our life time.

Christs blood is the main difference..they can't accept that a man could pay someone elses sins with his blood...fine they don't accept it...I agree with freewill.

Yet they believe if they die in the name of allah,eg killing for allah.. just one drop of their blood will save them from hell and gain them entry into their paradise..



can you see my point or not..i am not trying to argue with you..this is just one major flaw in there thinking pattern..


yes, I see where you're coming from.. Here's the thing: in Gnosticism (which I consider the root of all religions), the story of Christs blood, death/resurrection, is seen as a symbol/allegory for what we all have to do to embrace the spirit from God, the 'word' from God (Christ)... Embrace death (not literally) to this material world and be reborn in spirituality.

It's not a matter of killing for allah. All those passages say to struggle in the cause of allah, which is a matter of staying focused on spirituality even amidst all the distractions of materialism and this life, & representing that in society. Risking ones life by fighting in self defense because you're more concerned with God/Spirituality is an ultimate example of that.

That said, people who join a war or risk their lives solely as a free ride into heaven are completely missing the plot, and such manipulation is disgusting & un-Islamic.

[kbeet]

They don't go to heaven for murdering. They can get to the next life for sacrificing their material desires for God/spirituality.



yes, I see where you're coming from.. Here's the thing: in Gnosticism (which I consider the root of all religions), the story of Christs blood, death/resurrection, is seen as a symbol/allegory for what we all have to do to embrace the spirit from God, the 'word' from God (Christ)... Embrace death (not literally) to this material world and be reborn in spirituality.

It's not a matter of killing for allah. All those passages say to struggle in the cause of allah, which is a matter of staying focused on spirituality even amidst all the distractions of materialism and this life, & representing that in society. Risking ones life by fighting in self defense because you're more concerned with God/Spirituality is an ultimate example of that.

That said, people who join a war or risk their lives solely as a free ride into heaven are completely missing the plot, and such manipulation is disgusting & un-Islamic.

the jihad in effect now is a order to kill just anyone on the street as the main target
just anyone in general. you dont call that murder?

[whatsinaname]

the jihad in effect now is a order to kill just anyone on the street as the main target
just anyone in general. you dont call that murder?

Where is this happening?

[kbeet]

Where is this happening?

have you forgoten the time square incident in new york last month
and the terror cell in bridgeport ct
dont you watch the news

[kappy0405]

the jihad in effect now is a order to kill just anyone on the street as the main target
just anyone in general. you dont call that murder?

First off, that has nothing to with what I said - I didn't deny that people are out there murdering.

Secondly, you're referring to orders made by political instituations. There is no such order by Islam. I think you should stop insisting on generalizing so much. If people judged Christianity based on the actions of political institutions, wouldn't you recognize them as being biased and illogical? Unfortunately, this is what you are doing in how you falsely perceive Islam.

[whatsinaname]

dont you watch the news

I try not to, but occasionally a bit slips through.:(

Sounds like you need to give it a miss too.;)

[kappy0405]

dont you watch the news

Why do you always have to add a snide remark to your posts? :rolleyes:

[kappy0405]

I try not to, but occasionally a bit slips through.:(

Sounds like you need to give it a miss too.;)

:p +1

[kbeet]

You're referring to orders made by political instituations. There is no such order by Islam. I think you should stop insisting on generalizing so much. If people judged Christianity based on the actions of political institutions, wouldn't you recognize them as being biased and illogical? Unfortunately, this is what you are doing in how you falsely perceive Islam.

your off it a bit. i sead islam is being used agenst what its suposed to be. and i sead bin laden issued that kill anyone order.
isent a jihad suposed to be part of islam as a last resort

[kappy0405]

isent a jihad suposed to be part of islam as a last resort

Yes, but it's not as you're presenting it. It has nothing to do with murdering. It has to do with sacrificing your material desires for a love of God and spirituality. It starts as a struggle within, then moves on to reflecting that by bettering society, etc.. Risking life by fighting defensively is an expression of it.

[kbeet]

Yes, but it's not as you're presenting it. It has nothing to do with murdering. It has to do with sacrificing your material desires for a love of God and spirituality. It starts as a struggle within, then moves on to reflecting that by bettering society, etc.. Risking life by fighting defensively is an expression of it.

this prooves my point what i been saying. dont tell me you dont know what alqeda or bin laden wants with there jihad. unless there jihad is not connected to islam and is just there personal jihad apart from islam
i been keeping my eyes on things from 9/11. and i found there is a radicle islam not part of the true islam
is this true. or is it the terrorist that use the true islam to there own needs
i also found that most muslems say that bin laden has blackend islam
so am i right with anything here so far.

[kappy0405]

this prooves my point what i been saying. dont tell me you dont know what alqeda or bin laden wants with there jihad. I don't get what you're saying here in relation to what I said, sorry.

unless there jihad is not connected to islam and is just there personal jihad apart from islamyes, it's their own corrupted version of Jihad based on blatant distortions of Islam. Tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if the new, false definition was part of Brzezinski's Manifesto for his future "database army" to begin with. :p

i been keeping my eyes on things from 9/11. and i found there is a radicle islam not part of the true islam
is this true. . .
i also found that most muslems say that bin laden has blackend islam
so am i right with anything here so far.I'm glad you came to these realizations. Yes, Al Qaeda, et al, are misrepresenting Islam. Their radical misinterpretations have given everybody a false perception of what the religion actually advocates.

[kbeet]

I don't get what you're saying here in relation to what I said, sorry.

yes, it's their own corrupted version of Jihad based on blatant distortions of Islam. Tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if the new, false definition was part of Brzezinski's Manifesto for his future "database army" to begin with. :p

I'm glad you came to these realizations. Yes, Al Qaeda, et al, are misrepresenting Islam. Their radical misinterpretations have given everybody a false perception of what the religion actually advocates.

that is just what i been saying.