Have you got a Poppy?

[hagbard_celine]

This year I haven't.

I got one last year because I thought it was not jingoistic to remember people who've died in wars. But now I've chnaged my mind. The whole rememberence cult refuses to address the causes of war and even glorifies it. There's this ritualistic element to poppies as well; they're the colour of blood, as in sacrifice. In 2005, a million of them were dropped on the Mall by a Lancaster bomber, representing the million British and Commonwealth troops killed in WWII. It was a blood sacrifice in effigy! :eek:The Lancaster itself was designed to carpet bomb innocent Germans and create firestorms that killed millions; far more than the 60,000 that they killed in the Blitz. So much for our "heroes"!:mad:

I'm all in favour of remembering people killed fighting wars, but it has to be done in the right way: Dead soldiers are victims of a massive con-trick. They should be commemmorated as such. Not as "brave warriors" who "died for our freedom", but as muder victims; murdered not by the "ememy" troops, but by the governments (government singular, I should say. There is only one: THe Illuminati) who lured them into their engineered conflicts.

[razed1]

remembrance day is one big ritual to make sure souls that have 'willingly' been sacrificed endure their torture in the afterlife



its a fraud, thats why the elites love building memorials to the dead, to make sure the sacrifice if that much more potent

11/11 11:11 am???


damn thats alotta 11s


9/11?? also has an 11

[pedsi]

I've started to see war memorials in a new light now..for the masses its a way of remembering the dead and for the crown its a way of celebrating the killings they have done...they even put the names of the dead on their celebratory monuments!

[hagbard_celine]

I've started to see war memorials in a new light now..for the masses its a way of remembering the dead and for the crown its a way of celebrating the killings they have done...they even put the names of the dead on their celebratory monuments!


The local war memorial near where I live in shaped like an obelisk!:eek: How obvious! The Goddess woldn't come within a mile of it!

[pedsi]

Aye same here, most of them seem to be.........Guess where the flu jabs were being given here this week?.........The masonic hall:eek:

[malvern]

hello hagbard_celine..... well said.... by there blood other are taken in with the lies...

[hagbard_celine]

hello hagbard_celine..... well said.... by there blood other are taken in with the lies...

Hi Malvern. I feel deeply sorry to hear about servicemen being killed, but I mourn them in the same way I mourn people who commit suicide in cult deaths, as with Heaven's Gate or the Jonestown massacre. Both are taken in by lies and indoctrination and persuaded to commit unspeakable acts against others and themselves until they're finished with; then they're either dead, or shunned from society like the Vietnam vets were in America.

[supertzar]

What the heck is a poppy?

Edit: Oh, the flower. It's used to memorialize veterans? Didn't know.

[hagbard_celine]

White poppies are a good idea: http://www.ppu.org.uk/poppy/index.html

I can't find anywhere that sells them so I've made one myself out of an ordinary red poppy.

[hagbard_celine]

I've often wondered about the symbolic link with poppies and the military. Could it have anything to do with the Opium Wars and the drugs trade in general?

[mercuryrapids]

I've often wondered about the symbolic link with poppies and the military. Could it have anything to do with the Opium Wars and the drugs trade in general?


The Flanders poppy fields in WWI

[them]

I've often wondered about the symbolic link with poppies and the military. Could it have anything to do with the Opium Wars and the drugs trade in general?

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep,
though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


In Flanders Fields

by John McCrae, May 1915

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
Oh what a lovely war

http://www.davygoat.uklinux.net/botany/poppies/img_1625.jpg

Growth of Pollen Tubes of Papaver rhoeas Is Regulated by a Slow-Moving Calcium Wave Propagated by Inositol 1,4,5-Trisphosphate
http://www.plantcell.org/cgi/content/abstract/8/8/1305
http://bilbo.bio.purdue.edu/~cjslab/pollen-tubes.jpg

The Flanders poppy fields in WWI

[adimon]

They died protecting the future.
Without them you might not be alive.
This forum might not exist.
I salute all The Glorious Dead.


They went with songs to the battle, they were young.
Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.

[i_am]

They died protecting the future.
Without them you might not be alive.
This forum might not exist.
I salute all The Glorious Dead.


They went with songs to the battle, they were young.
Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.

True and yet false adimon.

They died because they believed they were protecting our future and therefore deserve our full respect. However, if the powers that be had not pitted side against side, financed both 'sides', no wars would have happened, just as they would not be happening today. It is all part of an agenda and it moves, increasingly swiftly, forward.

We now have communication where information moves around the world at lightening speed. We are well informed, if we wish to be. We, some of us, now know that the puppetmasters do not give a toss about people. These men had no idea of the extent to which they were used and abused. Most do not today. There is nothing glorious about war.

[adimon]

True and yet false adimon.

They died because they believed they were protecting our future and therefore deserve our full respect. However, if the powers that be had not pitted side against side, financed both 'sides', no wars would have happened, just as they would not be happening today. It is all part of an agenda and it moves, increasingly swiftly, forward.

We now have communication where information moves around the world at lightening speed. We are well informed, if we wish to be. We, some of us, now know that the puppetmasters do not give a toss about people. These men had no idea of the extent to which they were used and abused. Most do not today. There is nothing glorious about war.

I don't believe there is any power that can pit one side against another on that scale, and be sure both of the victor and of its own survival as a power.

I didn't say there was anything glorious about war. But it's inevitable sometimes. There is certainly glory in dying for your country.

[mad as a cat]

I'm really torn by this thread.

My father was a POW for 5 1/2 years. I know he suffered then,and I watched him suffer, both mentally and physically as I grew up,until he died at age 59. That was 32 years ago.

So, what do I do? Buy a poppy and show my support for my father and all the other people who went to war,or don't buy a poppy because if I do I'll be supporting 'The System'?

It's a dilemma for me:(

[i_am]

We will have to agree to disagree on that.


It is nice to be able to debate without agro though, isn't it? :)


I don't believe there is any power that can pit one side against another on that scale, and be sure both of the victor and of its own survival as a power.

I didn't say there was anything glorious about war. But it's inevitable sometimes. There is certainly glory in dying for your country.

[adimon]

So, what do I do? Buy a poppy and show my support for my father and all the other people who went to war,or don't buy a poppy because if I do I'll be supporting 'The System'?

It's a dilemma for me:(

Buying a poppy doesn't support 'The System'. It raises money for the British Legion who will use it to good cause helping ex-Servicemen and women.

My grandfather lived the last couple years of his life in a Regimental bungalow in Suffolk, subsidised by the British Legion. It was a very small and basic place to live, suitable only really for one person, and barely bigger than a bedsit, but for him it was better than a home, and he was able to shoot the shit with his old buddies and stay happy.

This is just one of many many good causes supported by the British Legion.

[adimon]

It is nice to be able to debate without agro though, isn't it? :)

Yes it is. :)

[i_am]

I'm really torn by this thread.

My father was a POW for 5 1/2 years. I know he suffered then,and I watched him suffer, both mentally and physically as I grew up,until he died at age 59. That was 32 years ago.

So, what do I do? Buy a poppy and show my support for my father and all the other people who went to war,or don't buy a poppy because if I do I'll be supporting 'The System'?

It's a dilemma for me:(

Go with what your heart says :)

[mad as a cat]

Yes Adimon.

I'm sorry I didn't think of the Legion before I posted....my friend is a local secretary,so I should have known better!

Thanks for the reminder:)

[parel]

Aye same here, most of them seem to be.........Guess where the flu jabs were being given here this week?.........The masonic hall:eek:

Before I read the last line, I was horrified thinking "obelisk shaped? OMG NO!!"

[hagbard_celine]

The Flanders poppy fields in WWI

I should have mentioned that I know the official reason, but could there be a hidden symbolic reason? It wouldn't surprise me as it's so often the case in other circumstances.

Here's an article on the Opium Wars; it was not our finest hour: Opium Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[hagbard_celine]

I don't believe there is any power that can pit one side against another on that scale, and be sure both of the victor and of its own survival as a power.

I didn't say there was anything glorious about war. But it's inevitable sometimes. There is certainly glory in dying for your country.

Hi Adimon,

I'm afriad I_Am is correct. Both world wars were engineered. It may seem impossible that the Illuminati could do such a thing, but actully when you look at the background to Hitler, the Soviets and their relationship with the Bank of England and its network then it all slots into place.

The people who fought in those war were mostly very well-meaning and endured terrible sacrifices for what they believed in; and did what they truly thought was right. But it was all a scam. And speaking out about the scam is the only way to show real resepct for their memories.

[lottie]

Yeah my colleague at work yesterday suggested we both wear poppies while working - i said 'No thanks'- she asked why- but i didnt want to get into it (there's little point as it falls on deaf ears!), so i brushed it off, but i dont need to wear a poppy to remember all the people who died thinking they were fighting for their country, (my grand-parents were there too) they were fighting in a designed war!
I feel for them but where's the rememberance for the children and innocent citizens who are killed everyday by our troops in Iraq etc etc??....The fact that we wear a poppy to remember those who died but we're still doing the same thing to innocent people in other countries seems perfectly hypocritical!!

No poppy for me - or two minute silence at 11am on the 11th of the 11th, while i give my spiritual consent to their hypocracy!

[hagbard_celine]

Yeah my colleague at work yesterday suggested we both wear poppies while working - i said 'No thanks'- she asked why- but i didnt want to get into it (there's little point as it falls on deaf ears!), so i brushed it off, but i dont need to wear a poppy to remember all the people who died thinking they were fighting for their country, (my grand-parents were there too) they were fighting in a designed war!
I feel for them but where's the rememberance for the children and innocent citizens who are killed everyday by our troops in Iraq etc etc??....The fact that we wear a poppy to remember those who died but we're still doing the same thing to innocent people in other countries seems perfectly hypocritical!!

No poppy for me - or two minute silence at 11am on the 11th of the 11th, while i give my spiritual consent to their hypocracy!

Well said, Lottie!:)

The culture that goes with the red poppies is what bothers me. It's a kind of cult. The people who died in wars are presented like deities and the way Remembrance is done is rather jingoistic. They say things like "They died in war so that we could live in peace" (not ture) and "The glorious dead".

There's nothing glorious about dying in wars! I know because I've seen the bodies when they fly them back from Iraq and Afghanistan and process them at my hospital.:( They're ordinary men and women who've died in a terrible manner for a scam and I see no intention on the part of the Poppy Cult to expose that scam. They even get upset and angry when I try to and would prefer to perpetuate what Wilfred Owen called "The old lie".

[dondaz]

I've brought a poppy for many years, as did my mom. My grandad was killed in the second world war. He was Canadian and died in 1944, shot to death by nazies at The Battle for Monte Cassino, Italy. He was 19 years old and my mom wasn't even one.

I've been to a few memorials here in Birmingham in honour of my grandad and will be filming it this year for another film.

I don't think I will be getting a poppy this year. I agree with Hagbard over this issue and am quite disgusted with the real meaning the elite has behind this.

Doesn't mean I have no respect for the poor manipulated people who killed each other for the elite.

There is also the duality in the poppy because look at the drug they make from it and infest our world with the eveil it creates. The ptb are laughing in our faces over the poppy scam, I guarentee it!

[mad as a cat]

Hi Hagbard_Celine.

I used the link to white poppies http://www.ppu.org.uk/poppy/index.html
There's a 'buy poppies' button.

5 poppies : £3
10 : £6
25 : £12.50
100 + display box : £40

All packs come with mini-leaflets.

I'm thinking along the lines of donating to the Legion, because of the good work that they do, but, I'll be wearing a white poppy:)

Thanks for starting this thread:)

[adimon]

Both world wars were engineered.

I've looked into this theory, but those suggesting it take massive liberties with the truth and it doesn't hold water for me. Many other later wars were certainly by design, but not the two World Wars.

The people who fought in those war were mostly very well-meaning and endured terrible sacrifices for what they believed in; and did what they truly thought was right.

And yet you can't even bring yourselves to merely remember them.

I feel for them but where's the rememberance for the children and innocent citizens who are killed everyday by our troops in Iraq etc etc??....The fact that we wear a poppy to remember those who died but we're still doing the same thing to innocent people in other countries seems perfectly hypocritical!!

First of all, innocent citizens are not killed by our troops every day in Iraq as you suggest. Secondly, do you feel more compassion for those who are dying in the crossfire of a counter-insurgency conflict than the 57,000 Brits who died on THE FIRST DAY of the Battle of the Somme?

The culture that goes with the red poppies is what bothers me. It's a kind of cult. The people who died in wars are presented like deities and the way Remembrance is done is rather jingoistic. They say things like "They died in war so that we could live in peace" (not ture) and "The glorious dead".

How is it a cult? All that happens is people stop for two minutes to remember, once a year. The dead aren't treated as deities - there is no worship, icons, fancy clothes, holy water, or any of the countless features of 'spiritual' worship that I won't name.

There's nothing glorious about dying in wars!

Well lets hope you never have to live through one then. That's the hypocrisy, people. Today you have a choice. Back in 1914 and 1939 British men didn't have a choice. They died SO you can have that choice.

Pacifism is a morally bankrupt elite.

[tb303]

I've looked into this theory, but those suggesting it take massive liberties with the truth and it doesn't hold water for me. Many other later wars were certainly by design, but not the two World Wars.


WALL STREET AND THE RISE OF HITLER By Antony C. Sutton:

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/index.html

WALL STREET AND THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION:

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/bolshevik_revolution/index.html

[dondaz]

Adimon obviously reads ladybird books. My 9 year old son knows more about the history of the great wars than you.

[them]

I should have mentioned that I know the official reason, but could there be a hidden symbolic reason? It wouldn't surprise me as it's so often the case in other circumstances.

Here's an article on the Opium Wars; it was not our finest hour: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

There may well be occult meaning, I don't know what that it is though. The Opium Poppy - Papaver somniferum - & the European Field Poppy - Papaver rhoeas are different species.

The reason so many Papaver rhoeas grew on Flanders Field, and other calcareous battlefields in Northern France, is explained in the link I provided.. John McCrae wrote poetry about what he saw around him in May 1915.

Growth of Pollen Tubes of Papaver rhoeas Is Regulated by a Slow-Moving Calcium Wave Propagated by Inositol 1,4,5-Trisphosphate
(http://www.plantcell.org/cgi/content/abstract/8/8/1305)

[goatboyhicks]

Instead of the putting the money in the tin, I spend it on a beer and salute the poor cannon fodder:(
I like a beer:D

[kweli]

I won't be wearing a poppy this year.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PYv0O43PrPk

[adimon]

Adimon obviously reads ladybird books. My 9 year old son knows more about the history of the great wars than you.

That's cool. I wish I could have gone on four battlefield tours, visited the Chelsea pensioners and taken a year long course in War Studies by the time I was 9.

Maybe you should encourage your son to post on here Dondaz? I'd love to hear his perspective.

I look forward to meeting you in Shrewsbury on the 15th btw :)

[dondaz]

I wish I could have gone on four battlefield tours, visited the Chelsea pensioners and taken a year long course in War Studies by the time I was 9.

Maybe you should have. Maybe you would have a better perspective on how wars are created by now if you did. Maybe if you keep reading more you may even learn to see the truth when it's right in front of you.

Maybe there is hope for you yet.

I look forward to meeting you in Shrewsbury on the 15th btw :)

That will be interesting!;) I hope your not camera shy:rolleyes:

BTW, I just been talking to my neighbour for the past hour and listened to him tell me how good his life is and how good this country is to people like him. He lives in a little concrete sweatbox in a run down fucked up area, has a seven grand car on hp that's he's selling for two grand, he's on the dole, no prospects for the future, no interests or hobbies, just drinking, smoking and watching tv and he thinks he has a good life. To him he does, but he totally done my head in because he won't listen to other people's ideas or watch any usfull vids on the net.

What am I doing here?

Wake me up I must be dreaming!

[adimon]

Maybe you should have. Maybe you would have a better perspective on how wars are created by now if you did. Maybe if you keep reading more you may even learn to see the truth when it's right in front of you.

Maybe there is hope for you yet.

Thank you very much you wonderful polite gentleman. :)

That will be interesting!;) I hope your not camera shy:rolleyes:

I hope you're not impolite in person. :)

BTW, I just been talking to my neighbour for the past hour and listened to him tell me how good his life is and how good this country is to people like him. He lives in a little concrete sweatbox in a run down fucked up area, has a seven grand car on hp that's he's selling for two grand, he's on the dole, no prospects for the future, no interests or hobbies, just drinking, smoking and watching tv and he thinks he has a good life. To him he does, but he totally done my head in because he won't listen to other people's ideas or watch any usfull vids on the net.

What am I doing here?

Wake me up I must be dreaming![/QUOTE]

Why did you tell me about this chap? Because you think I'm blind to what's going on in this country? I had Brian Mawhinney laugh in my face when I was 17 years old due to the clothes I was wearing. I'm woken up mate.

I look forward to meeting you. :)

[hagbard_celine]

Hi Hagbard_Celine.

I used the link to white poppies http://www.ppu.org.uk/poppy/index.html
There's a 'buy poppies' button.

5 poppies : £3
10 : £6
25 : £12.50
100 + display box : £40

All packs come with mini-leaflets.

I'm thinking along the lines of donating to the Legion, because of the good work that they do, but, I'll be wearing a white poppy:)

Thanks for starting this thread:)

Thanks, Mad. I've made one myself this time.

[hagbard_celine]

And yet you can't even bring yourselves to merely remember them.

.

Ahem... when did I say that I wasn't remembering them? i actually wrote this:

And speaking out about the scam is the only way to show real resepct for their memories.

I DO remember them. I just think that perpetuating a romantic lie about how millions of them met their deaths is a poor way to show repect for their memories. Maybe by speaking out about this lie we can prevent future generations from suffering the same fate.

[hagbard_celine]

How is it a cult? All that happens is people stop for two minutes to remember, once a year. The dead aren't treated as deities - there is no worship, icons, fancy clothes, holy water, or any of the countless features of 'spiritual' worship that I won't name.

It's a cult because it creates a false impression of what war is. It venerates victims of a grotesque fraud for the purposes of giving out a false account of history and politics.

[hagbard_celine]

First of all, innocent citizens are not killed by our troops every day in Iraq as you suggest. Secondly, do you feel more compassion for those who are dying in the crossfire of a counter-insurgency conflict than the 57,000 Brits who died on THE FIRST DAY of the Battle of the Somme?


Why is it that as soon as someone mentions their concern for the deaths of Iraqi civilians (and many hospital porters too, I dare say) in the war, they automatically get accused of not caring about the deaths of British troops? :confused:Why can't we care about both?

[hagbard_celine]

Well lets hope you never have to live through one then. That's the hypocrisy, people. Today you have a choice. Back in 1914 and 1939 British men didn't have a choice. They died SO you can have that choice.



No they didn't. They died so that the Illuminati could restructure the post war world the way they wanted.

And the soldiers of the world wars did have a choice; they could have looked behind the headlines and seen what was really going on, got together with the "enemy" soldiers and refused to play the game.

[hagbard_celine]

Pacifism is a morally bankrupt elite.

Could you please stop putting words in my mouth, Ad.:rolleyes:

I am not a pacifist. If Illuminati troops were bearing down on me and my loved ones and I had a gun in my hand I would most definitely use it. But there's no way I'd get involved in a phoney, trumped-up war engineered to advance the New World Order.

[hagbard_celine]

Well lets hope you never have to live through one then.

What do you mean? We're all living through one now! We're fighting for human freedom from the real enemies of our world. And we get none of the glory and glamour that the military gets. Nobody puts on a poppy for us!

[steevo]

This year I haven't.

I got one last year because I thought it was not jingoistic to remember people who've died in wars. But now I've chnaged my mind. The whole rememberence cult refuses to address the causes of war and even glorifies it. There's this ritualistic element to poppies as well; they're the colour of blood, as in sacrifice. In 2005, a million of them were dropped on the Mall by a Lancaster bomber, representing the million British and Commonwealth troops killed in WWII. It was a blood sacrifice in effigy! :eek:The Lancaster itself was designed to carpet bomb innocent Germans and create firestorms that killed millions; far more than the 60,000 that they killed in the Blitz. So much for our "heroes"!:mad:

I'm all in favour of remembering people killed fighting wars, but it has to be done in the right way: Dead soldiers are victims of a massive con-trick. They should be commemmorated as such. Not as "brave warriors" who "died for our freedom", but as muder victims; murdered not by the "ememy" troops, but by the governments (government singular, I should say. There is only one: THe Illuminati) who lured them into their engineered conflicts.

I have stopped buying Poppies for many reasons and I think all of those reasons have been already mentioned in this thread.

[adimon]

Sorry HC if I misread your stance.

Why is it that as soon as someone mentions their concern for the deaths of Iraqi civilians (and many hospital porters too, I dare say) in the war, they automatically get accused of not caring about the deaths of British troops? :confused:Why can't we care about both?

Yes you can, but many people who are against the war stop considering the troops, choosing to label them murderers, or not think of them at all.

More than anything I dislike the myth that NATO forces are killing civilians every day. This is simply untrue.

No they didn't. They died so that the Illuminati could restructure the post war world the way they wanted.

And the soldiers of the world wars did have a choice; they could have looked behind the headlines and seen what was really going on, got together with the "enemy" soldiers and refused to play the game.

I can see your point, but its one thing for the 'sheeple' (as some call them) in today's world to struggle to 'wake up', let alone those threatened with being shot for sedition. And that's of course assuming that there were any people such as you who believe the wars were Illum engineered to wake them up to that fact and give them that choice. I appreciate your views that the wars may have been engineered but the conscripts had very little choice, and only noble intentions IMO. :)

Could you please stop putting words in my mouth, Ad.:rolleyes:

Apologies. :)

What do you mean? We're all living through one now! We're fighting for human freedom from the real enemies of our world. And we get none of the glory and glamour that the military gets. Nobody puts on a poppy for us!

OK, well I'll agree to disagree. You've told me that you'll remember them in your way and I appreciate that. I'll remember them in mine.

[hagbard_celine]

Sorry HC if I misread your stance.




Apologies. :)



That's OK, mate.:)

[hagbard_celine]

Yes you can, but many people who are against the war stop considering the troops, choosing to label them murderers, or not think of them at all.

More than anything I dislike the myth that NATO forces are killing civilians every day. This is simply untrue.


I know not all soldiers are murderers. My own uncle was in the army for 20 years and he's a really nice guy. There are also many soldiers who grass on (I can't think of a non-perjorative term for "grass") their comrades who do commit war crimes. I saw an interview on TV with one of the key witnesses to the My Lai massacre.

But although killing innocent people may not happen every day, and that it's more often done accidentally than on purpose, it does happen. The people of Fallujah can testify to that, and Hiroshima, Nagaski, Dresden, Coventry, Sand Creek... the list goes on.

[jimijams]

This year I haven't.

I got one last year because I thought it was not jingoistic to remember people who've died in wars. But now I've chnaged my mind. The whole rememberence cult refuses to address the causes of war and even glorifies it. There's this ritualistic element to poppies as well; they're the colour of blood, as in sacrifice. In 2005, a million of them were dropped on the Mall by a Lancaster bomber, representing the million British and Commonwealth troops killed in WWII. It was a blood sacrifice in effigy! :eek:The Lancaster itself was designed to carpet bomb innocent Germans and create firestorms that killed millions; far more than the 60,000 that they killed in the Blitz. So much for our "heroes"!:mad:

I'm all in favour of remembering people killed fighting wars, but it has to be done in the right way: Dead soldiers are victims of a massive con-trick. They should be commemmorated as such. Not as "brave warriors" who "died for our freedom", but as muder victims; murdered not by the "ememy" troops, but by the governments (government singular, I should say. There is only one: THe Illuminati) who lured them into their engineered conflicts.
I agree, it's a difficult one, one of my grandfathers fought the Japanese in New Guinea and my other grandfather died on the Burma railroad so my guilt says that I should buy a poppy to pay my respect, but the fact is I have no respect for Illuminati fought wars. I'm sad that my grandparents bought the propaganda and suffered because of it, but these poppys and war memorials are for the glorification of warfare and I want no part of that.

People always talk of how they died for our country, but you don't hear to many say the real truth which is they also killed for our country.

[hagbard_celine]

I can see your point, but its one thing for the 'sheeple' (as some call them) in today's world to struggle to 'wake up', let alone those threatened with being shot for sedition. And that's of course assuming that there were any people such as you who believe the wars were Illum engineered to wake them up to that fact and give them that choice. I appreciate your views that the wars may have been engineered but the conscripts had very little choice, and only noble intentions IMO. :)



Perhaps, but conscripts can only be shot of the state apparatus complies in prosecuting them, and the prison authorites comply in imprisoning them, and the executioners comply in taking aim and pulling their triggers. If at any point someone in that chain says the magic word: "No", the system breaks down. Of course the Elite have engineered the system so that anyone who says "no" shares the fate of the conscript, but what if more people in the process say "no"? What if everyone does?

This is such an important thing to realize. Everything that happens depends on our cooperation. If we refuse to cooperate then as Gandhi said: "A few hundred Englishmen cannot rule 200 milion Indians". It means that if you have noble ideals you have to act on them, whatever ther risk. I'm sure it's not easy when you're faced with death, but I've had to act on my ideals when I've been faced with social death.

What if you got onto the battlefield and explained to the "enemy" troops how we were all being used and therefore refused to fire on them. Of course they might fire back and wipe you all out, but supposing they agreed not to. The Illuminati would be helpless!

[hagbard_celine]

I agree, it's a difficult one, one of my grandfathers fought the Japanese in New Guinea and my other grandfather died on the Burma railroad so my guilt says that I should buy a poppy to pay my respect, but the fact is I have no respect for Illuminati fought wars. I'm sad that my grandparents bought the propaganda and suffered because of it, but these poppys and war memorials are for the glorification of warfare and I want no part of that.

People always talk of how they died for our country, but you don't hear to many say the real truth which is they also killed for our country.

Unfortunately they both killed and died for the Illuminati, not our country.

There's an element of sadness and mourning in Rememberance Day which I share. I also admire what the Royal British Legion does in providing care and support for former soldiers. But you're right; it is also about the glorification of war. At no point have I heard anyone in the poppy appeal address the causes of war or strive for a situation where we might be able to live in a world without it.

[hagbard_celine]

I'm defintely not having a poppy this year. The secret symbolism behind the public one is too sinister. :eek::mad:

Did any poppies get to grow in the "Flanders Fields" during the Great War? With all the shelling and bombing and the ground covered by shattered and corrupting bodies how could anything grow?:confused:

Poppies represent a blood sacrifice. Either that (or as well) the Opium Wars of the 19th Century.

[steevo]

I'm defintely not having a poppy this year. The secret symbolism behind the public one is too sinister. :eek::mad:

Did any poppies get to grow in the "Flanders Fields" during the Great War? With all the shelling and bombing and the ground covered by shattered and corrupting bodies how could anything grow?:confused:

Poppies represent a blood sacrifice. Either that (or as well) the Opium Wars of the 19th Century.

I wont be getting one either. Like you say HC I dont like what it symbolises. Also, by wearing a poppy I would feel that I am contributing to the legitimising of the recent/current wars that killed and mamed those soldiers and civillians.

[hagbard_celine]

I wont be getting one either. Like you say HC I dont like what it symbolises. Also, by wearing a poppy I would feel that I am contributing to the legitimising of the recent/current wars.


Yes, there is an element of gung-ho about poppies too. They have connotations of heroism and sacrifice for something noble and just. This is not the case I think.

I know that will make me into a bit of an iconoclast, as you'll see above in my conversations with Adimon etc, but for me the best way to respect the memory of those who fall in wars is to tell the truth about why wars happen in the first place and in doing so prevent them.

[red_ram]

I don't wear a poppy and never will, nor will any living member of my family.

This is because when my great grandfather came back from the First World War, with his legs flayed to hell from shrapnel, he found it hard to find work. A friend suggested he try the British Legion, but when he got there they dismissed him immediately and told him to bugger off and get a job.

My grandma's next door neighbour's husband, in the same war, went no further past South Wales, yet the Legion send her a catalogue and free gifts every year.

The Legion can fuck off. I show my respect to the dead of war (of ALL nations) in other ways.

[hagbard_celine]

I don't wear a poppy and never will, nor will any living member of my family.

This is because when my great grandfather came back from the First World War, with his legs flayed to hell from shrapnel, he found it hard to find work. A friend suggested he try the British Legion, but when he got there they dismissed him immediately and told him to bugger off and get a job.

My grandma's next door neighbour's husband, in the same war, went no further past South Wales, yet the Legion send her a catalogue and free gifts every year.

The Legion can fuck off. I show my respect to the dead of war (of ALL nations) in other ways.

Such is the dark side of the military "hero" myth. The Vietnam veterans in America became virtual outcasts after the war; many ended up living rough on the streets. But they don't tell the new recruits that!:rolleyes:

It's actually the same in all area of society. It doesn't matter how loyally you serve the system, you'll get no appreciation for it and will be thrown aside when you're no longer useful without a qualm. I saw a lady who'd just been made redundant from an airline saying "I've worked do hard, hardly ever been off sick, turned up on time every day. How could they treat me like this!?" What does she expect? Gratituide? The PTB don't do gratitutde.

[jp13]

[QUOTE=them;180173][CENTER]

There may well be occult meaning, I don't know what that it is though. The Opium Poppy - Papaver somniferum - & the European Field Poppy - Papaver rhoeas are different species.

The reason so many Papaver rhoeas grew on Flanders Field, and other calcareous battlefields in Northern France, is explained in the link I provided.. John McCrae wrote poetry about what he saw around him in May 1915.

[URL="http://www.plantcell.org/cgi/content/abstract/8/8/1305"][COLOR="Blue"][U]Growth of Pollen Tubes of Papaver rhoeas Is Regulated by a Slow-Moving Calcium Wave Propagated by Inositol 1,4,5-Trisphosphate
All poppies have some of the opium in them, even papaver somniferum, think of the 2nd word somniferum same as root for somnambulism i.e. som = sleep I don't know Latin, just know this , somniferum may well be the herbalists name for the plant, but there are different strains, and real opium poppies are everywhere, they are much bigger than the red one's...

[red_ram]

Such is the dark side of the military "hero" myth. The Vietnam veterans in America became virtual outcasts after the war; many ended up living rough on the streets. But they don't tell the new recruits that!:rolleyes:

It's actually the same in all area of society. It doesn't matter how loyally you serve the system, you'll get no appreciation for it and will be thrown aside when you're no longer useful without a qualm. I saw a lady who'd just been made redundant from an airline saying "I've worked do hard, hardly ever been off sick, turned up on time every day. How could they treat me like this!?" What does she expect? Gratituide? The PTB don't do gratitutde.

Agreed. I wonder why people still join up, given that it's not exactly a secret how shabbily ex-servicepeople are treated once they return from a conflict.

[astral_girl]

The painkilling fields: England's opium poppies that tackle the NHS morphine crisis


In Afghanistan, British troops are fighting a ferocious and often lethal war to eradicate the country's opium poppy crop.

Yet, as our soldiers risk their lives daily, large swathes of the English countryside are being turned over to the very same crop - with the full backing of the Government.

Farmers are cultivating the poppies to combat a critical shortage of morphine in NHS hospitals, and are finding it a lucrative crop.

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poppy field

A growing business: An opium poppy field near Didcot power station in Oxfordshire

Should Britain be growing poppies for morphine? Have your say at Reader Comments below

Extracts from the plants can either be turned into the much-needed painkiller - or deadly heroin.

Most of the heroin that reaches Britain originates in the poppy fields of Afghanistan, and the trade funds Taliban-backed terrorism.

But in the UK, the Home Office has granted pharmaceutical company Macfarlan Smith a licence to harvest the poppies, and now they are being grown in tens of farms across Oxfordshire, Northamptonshire and Lincolnshire.

The move aims to ease the severe lack of diamorphine that has hit the NHS, and the rest of the world, for several years.

Guy Hildred has dedicated more than 100 acres of his farm near Ipsden, Oxfordshire, to poppies. He said: "It is worthwhile from a farmer's point of view and it's an expanding market."

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afghan farmer

Lethal crop: An Afghan poppy farmer

His neighbour, Tom Allen, has a 15-acre poppy field and said: "We simply had to prepare the land, drill it and watch the crop grow. Macfarlan Smith takes care of the harvesting and transport of the poppy heads. I think we'll do it again next year."

A spokesman for Macfarlan Smith's parent company, Johnson Matthey, said: "We have a number of farmers under contract to grow poppies, which we then harvest. You can extract morphine and codeine from the poppies' capsules.

"We are the only company processing poppies in this way in the UK. The same crop is grown in Afghanistan, India and Turkey for illegitimate reasons."

The opiate from which both morphine and heroin are derived is found in the milky white sap contained in the poppy's capsules. It hardens into a sticky brown resin.

Despite the efforts of British troops, Afghanistan still generates 90 per cent of the world's heroin output.

Cultivation of the crop for legal means has expanded rapidly in Britain since trials began six years ago - but the global morphine shortage is so severe that Foreign Office Minister Lord Malloch-Brown has raised the possibility of legalising opium growing in Afghanistan.

A Home Office spokeswoman said: "The poppies in question, Papaver somniferum, can be grown without a licence. The extraction of the drugs is a complex industrial process and the people who work to produce the drugs have to be licensed.

"In addition, the Home Office receives information about where the poppy farmers are and how much they are growing from the pharmaceutical companies. We then send growers a letter that they are encour-aged to show to local police to make them aware of their activities."

[lordzoma]

Poppies huh? Must be another one of those wacky british celebrations.

Maybe you guys should switch it up and burn guy fawkes in effigy while tossing poppies in the fire.

As for me - Pass the poppy seed bagel.

[astral_girl]

you cant beat a shot of Diamorphine when youve been in labour for 2 days :)

[nofuture]

I've noticed that a lot fewer people wear them than did in previous decades, society's apathy?

Still , I'll wear one to remember the people sent to fight pointless wars by evil bastards.

[peachped]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2d1jqdu.gif

I found this on a Canadian rememberance site a year or two ago.

[sevenworlds]

The whole thing disgusts me.

I saw the advert on tv the other day. The system creates these wars, sends people to fight in them and then has the cheek to ask us to give donations and remember?

[lightgiver]

with you on that one peeps,nice one hagbard;)

[hagbard_celine]

I saw a few people stand still at 11.11 this morning. I did too, but for me it was different. It wasn't to remember the "glorious dead" it was to lament the lives lost to the great political manipulation con trick.:(

[chipstyxx]

There is occult meaning behind the poppy, as a flower it is connected to Morpheus in greek mythology. He was connected to Hades, the underworld and associated with sleep, dreaming, hpnosis (sedation/morphine) etc. Has nobody read Matthew Delooze's article on this? He puts it much better than I can. I am absolutely disgusted by the whole remembrance 'ritual', the queen and her like laying a few wreaths for the millions that had no choice. The bbc actually refered to it repeatedly and openly four or five times as a 'ritual' on the radio this evening. Please read the article below for the meaning behind all the symbols surrounding armistice/poppy day.

http://matthew-delooze.blogspot.com/2007/11/swinging-on-gates-of-hades.html

Indeed the agents for the Serpent created all the wars our soldiers died in. After the wars the Serpent Cult use the circumstances of the dreadful situation to create symbolic monuments and then get us to agree to them and join in with ceremonies carried out at them. The main aim of the Serpent Cult agents that operate in our establishments is not only to create war and death but also to get you and I to worship the forces that actually create war and death. It is simply a vicious rebirth type circle in which you feed, and unknowingly worship, entities that are actually creating your misery in the first place.
Think for one minute and try to understand that carrying out Remembrance day ritual is in fact an act of worship that is really directed towards deities and not dead soldiers. Wearing a poppy is also just like saying I worship Morpheus, it really is just like a Christian wearing an I love Jesus badge. There is absolutely no difference! We are showing that we worship Morpheus, therefore Hades, by holding rituals around empty tombs.
PLEASE PLEASE LISTEN... EMPTY TOMBS AND POPPIES REPRESENT MORPHEUS, NOT CANNON FODDER SOLDIERS! WHEN YOU TAKE POPPIES (AS OFFERINGS) TO TOMBS AND OBELISKS YOU ARE 'WORSHIPPING' NOT GRIEVING.

[jojo]

yeh, matthew deloozes article on remebrance day is very eye opening.

no ive not got a poppy. ive not had one for years.

[hagbard_celine]

I've not worn one since 2005 and the D-Day 60 event I wrote about above.

That's an interesting article by Matt. Thanks.:)