Welsh - Native Tongue

[lookfar]

I've just read this article about the push for more people to speak Welsh & I'd like to hear your points of view on this (as I know we have a few of you lovely Welsh people on here!:))

I'm afraid I don't really know much about it, but from reading this article I can see that it may cause division in the people, which may be the purpose of it, I dunno???:confused: Anyway, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, whether you agree that it's necessary to preserve it, or just not really important etc... & it's only out of interest, so I don't wanna cause any grief here guys ok, lol!!:)

Cariad to you all!!!:D

Wales has been enjoying a revival of its native tongue, driven chiefly by those in rural areas. Now a new awareness is growing in the industrialised south, but some - including native Welsh speakers themselves - fear it could foster division and resentment.


Full article here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7060486.stm)

[lottie]

What we need is a One World Language!! :D:p

Abolish language and learn to speak our native communication- Telepathy!! :):cool:

[lookfar]

What we need is a One World Language!! :D:p

Abolish language and learn to speak our native communication- Telepathy!! :):cool:

Good point honey, roll on the day when this becomes the norm again eh!!:D

[hagbard_celine]

I've just read this article about the push for more people to speak Welsh & I'd like to hear your points of view on this (as I know we have a few of you lovely Welsh people on here!:))

I'm afraid I don't really know much about it, but from reading this article I can see that it may cause division in the people, which may be the purpose of it, I dunno???:confused: Anyway, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, whether you agree that it's necessary to preserve it, or just not really important etc... & it's only out of interest, so I don't wanna cause any grief here guys ok, lol!!:)

Cariad to you all!!!:D



Full article here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7060486.stm)

There's an element of divide-and-rule in play. CF24 and I discussed this at the meet-up. There is conflict between the two language groups. Welsh-speakers consider the non-Welsh-speakers as "not real Welshmen", in fact the Welsh word "Sais" means "English" and also "Englosh-speaker". My own uncle is one of these Welsh-language extremeists and he's actually quite arrogant. I think deep down he actually likes the fact that Wales is not 100%Welsh-speaking because if it was he'd have nothing to feel superior about!

At the end of the day, childish sniping over what language you speak is even stupider than sniping over what chruch you go to or what race you are. The only way out is for us to grow up, basically. As David says Mae caru anfeidrol yn y gwirionydd yn unig. Mae popeth arall yn lledrith.

[revelations]

Ahh thankyou sweet :D In Cardiff which is the Capital of Wales.. nobody speaks Welsh! And not many people bother to learn Welsh either. Personaly I would rather learn Spannish which is more widely spoken. :D
828
I've just read this article about the push for more people to speak Welsh & I'd like to hear your points of view on this (as I know we have a few of you lovely Welsh people on here!:)

[lookfar]

There's an element of divide-and-rule in play. CF24 and I discussed this at the meet-up. There is conflict between the two language groups. Welsh-speakers consider the non-Welsh-speakers as "not real Welshmen", in fact the Welsh word "Sais" means "English" and also "Englosh-speaker". My own uncle is one of these Welsh-language extremeists and he's actually quite arrogant. I think deep down he actually likes the fact that Wales is not 100%Welsh-speaking because if it was he'd have nothing to feel superior about!

At the end of the day, childish sniping over what language you speak is even stupider than sniping over what chruch you go to or what race you are. The only way out is for us to grow up, basically. As David says Mae caru anfeidrol yn y gwirionydd yn unig. Mae popeth arall yn lledrith.

Hi HC honey

I agree, it does seem to be something that the older generation would feel more strongly about than the younger ones. It does seem childish to me too, as we are all the same, no better or worse than anyone else, despite what language we choose to speak :)

Thanks for your reply :)

[adimon]

I currently reside in Aberystwyth which is pretty much around the centre of the Welsh-speaking heartland. I am British and have lived all over the world, but this is my first time living in Wales.

I've been living here 3 months now, and from my experience, the vast majority of Welsh people are friendly, but a little keen observation shows you that there is (for some bizarre reason) quite deep-seated resentment. This shows true not only among the very old (not surprising) but also among young adults (more surprising). Why a lot of young people have come to the conclusion that the English are any different to them I don't know.

I get people yelling 'Go home', 'You're in my country' and that kind of crap from young adults (not kids) and have even been 'started on' twice. Now I can look after myself no problem and both times the idiots realised they were messing with the wrong guy and ran off, but I was still shocked.

I see no 'Nuremberg Rally' type event or catalyst for this current young generation to be so inherently xenophobic. Or maybe it's always been that way. I know rural type areas tend to be quite backward in their views anyway, having grown up in Norfolk/Suffolk, and having visited numerous places where people don't like 'strangers' - e.g. Fort William (among other places) in Scotland, Ripon in Yorkshire, Cornwall, and Devon.

My personal view is that it's a product of a certain size of settlement. All the places I've experienced anti-English views (even though I'm 1/2 Scottish) are smallish towns 5000-50000 population, and all at least 30 miles from a major City, so I think it's more a sociological phenomenon than a cultural one, but there has certainly been a boost as you say in Welsh speaking, and I'd like to make the following points. Perhaps someone could shed light on this for me?

1. Very, very few people, if at all, speak Welsh as their first language. Nex to noone speaks it as their only language

Consequently, my view is that, though the death of languages has a sadness to it such as you would have if a pet died, I think this means that Welsh will ultimately die out. The recent resurgence aside, Welsh just isn't anywhere near as universal or indeed useful as English, and with increasing globalisation, I'd give it 10-20 years before it's almost extinct.

2. In most parts of Wales, English is spoken as the first language.

And most Welsh people have no problem with this at all, because despite their national pride, they're realistic about it.

3. In some schools in Wales, streamed education has been replaced with split English / Welsh format lessons.

This is a bad idea as far I'm concerned, but the Welsh Assembly is elected by, and serves the Welsh people, so they will reap what they sow with this. My overwhelming lobby on the matter is to go back to all-English schooling, to improve standards of spoken and written English. More than 75% of Welsh students go to University in England or Scotland. Those that do, having studied in Welsh language format are going to suffer, even if it's only a slight handicap.

Well, that's my 2p (United Kingdom pence!)

[hagbard_celine]

I currently reside in Aberystwyth which is pretty much around the centre of the Welsh-speaking heartland. I am British and have lived all over the world, but this is my first time living in Wales.

I've been living here 3 months now, and from my experience, the vast majority of Welsh people are friendly, but a little keen observation shows you that there is (for some bizarre reason) quite deep-seated resentment. This shows true not only among the very old (not surprising) but also among young adults (more surprising). Why a lot of young people have come to the conclusion that the English are any different to them I don't know.

I get people yelling 'Go home', 'You're in my country' and that kind of crap from young adults (not kids) and have even been 'started on' twice. Now I can look after myself no problem and both times the idiots realised they were messing with the wrong guy and ran off, but I was still shocked.

I see no 'Nuremberg Rally' type event or catalyst or this current young generation to be so inherently xenophobic. Or maybe it's always been that way. I know rural type areas tend to be quite backward in their views anyway, having grown up in Norfolk/Suffolk, and having visited numerous places where people don't like 'strangers' - e.g. Fort William (among other places) in Scotland, Ripon in Yorkshire, Cornwall, and Devon.

My personal view is that it's a product of a certain size of settlement. All the places I've experienced anti-English views (even though I'm 1/2 Scottish) are smallish towns 5000-50000 population, and all at least 30 miles from a major City, so I think it's more a sociological phenomenon than a cultural one, but there has certainly been a boost as you say in Welsh speaking, and I'd like to make the following points. Perhaps someone could shed light on this for me?

1. Very, very few people, if at all, speak Welsh as their first language. Nex to noone speaks it as their only language

Consequently, my view is that, though the death of languages has a sadness to it such as you would have if a pet died, I think this means that Welsh will ultimately die out. The recent resurgence aside, Welsh just isn't anywhere near as universal or indeed useful as English, and with increasing globalisation, I'd give it 10-20 years before it's almost extinct.

2. In most parts of Wales, English is spoken as the first language.

And most Welsh people have no problem with this at all, because despite their national pride, they're realistic about it.

3. In some schools in Wales, streamed education has been replaced with split English / Welsh format lessons.

This is a bad idea as far I'm concerned, but the Welsh Assembly is elected by, and serves the Welsh people, so they will reap what they sow with this. My overwhelming lobby on the matter is to go back to all-English schooling, to improve standards of spoken and written English. More than 75% of Welsh students go to University in England or Scotland. Those that do, having studied in Welsh language format are going to suffer, even if it's only a slight handicap.

Well, that's my 2p (United Kingdom pence!)

Hmph! "my country" indeed!:mad: The cage has to be split into different sections and the people in different sections persuaded to fight eachother otherwise we might notice that we're...erm... in a cage?:rolleyes:

Ad, the next time someone is rude to you for being a "sais" say to them "What makes this your country? Did you buy it? Has it got your name on it?" I personally destest the very idea of nation states and terrotory. How can we possibly own pieces of our home planet. i remember in that great movie "Crocodile Dundee" the main character derscribes the Australian Aborigine's attitude to their land "They don't own it really. They kind of belong to it." That's how I see my own Welshness.

[hagbard_celine]

Hi HC honey

I agree, it does seem to be something that the older generation would feel more strongly about than the younger ones. It does seem childish to me too, as we are all the same, no better or worse than anyone else, despite what language we choose to speak :)

Thanks for your reply :)

Hi, Lookfar. :)

My uncle actually refuses to let his own daughter speak English in the home and derides me for not using the language myself. Well there's not much opportunity for practicing it in Oxford! He doesn't realize that he's as bad as the old "Welsh-noters" who punished kids at school for speaking Welsh!

[lookfar]

Ahh thankyou sweet :D In Cardiff which is the Capital of Wales.. nobody speaks Welsh! And not many people bother to learn Welsh either. Personaly I would rather learn Spannish which is more widely spoken. :D
828

Hi honey:)

Yeah I agree, Spanish would be a good language to learn. Perhaps I need to take more notice of my son's Dora The Explorer dvds eh lol!:D

[lookfar]

I currently reside in Aberystwyth which is pretty much around the centre of the Welsh-speaking heartland. I am British and have lived all over the world, but this is my first time living in Wales.

I've been living here 3 months now, and from my experience, the vast majority of Welsh people are friendly, but a little keen observation shows you that there is (for some bizarre reason) quite deep-seated resentment. This shows true not only among the very old (not surprising) but also among young adults (more surprising). Why a lot of young people have come to the conclusion that the English are any different to them I don't know.

I get people yelling 'Go home', 'You're in my country' and that kind of crap from young adults (not kids) and have even been 'started on' twice. Now I can look after myself no problem and both times the idiots realised they were messing with the wrong guy and ran off, but I was still shocked.

I see no 'Nuremberg Rally' type event or catalyst for this current young generation to be so inherently xenophobic. Or maybe it's always been that way. I know rural type areas tend to be quite backward in their views anyway, having grown up in Norfolk/Suffolk, and having visited numerous places where people don't like 'strangers' - e.g. Fort William (among other places) in Scotland, Ripon in Yorkshire, Cornwall, and Devon.

My personal view is that it's a product of a certain size of settlement. All the places I've experienced anti-English views (even though I'm 1/2 Scottish) are smallish towns 5000-50000 population, and all at least 30 miles from a major City, so I think it's more a sociological phenomenon than a cultural one, but there has certainly been a boost as you say in Welsh speaking, and I'd like to make the following points. Perhaps someone could shed light on this for me?

1. Very, very few people, if at all, speak Welsh as their first language. Nex to noone speaks it as their only language

Consequently, my view is that, though the death of languages has a sadness to it such as you would have if a pet died, I think this means that Welsh will ultimately die out. The recent resurgence aside, Welsh just isn't anywhere near as universal or indeed useful as English, and with increasing globalisation, I'd give it 10-20 years before it's almost extinct.

2. In most parts of Wales, English is spoken as the first language.

And most Welsh people have no problem with this at all, because despite their national pride, they're realistic about it.

3. In some schools in Wales, streamed education has been replaced with split English / Welsh format lessons.

This is a bad idea as far I'm concerned, but the Welsh Assembly is elected by, and serves the Welsh people, so they will reap what they sow with this. My overwhelming lobby on the matter is to go back to all-English schooling, to improve standards of spoken and written English. More than 75% of Welsh students go to University in England or Scotland. Those that do, having studied in Welsh language format are going to suffer, even if it's only a slight handicap.

Well, that's my 2p (United Kingdom pence!)

Hi adimon

Thanks for your post. I find it quite shocking that people still act in this way towards so called "strangers" in this day & age! My view is that strangers are just friends you haven't met yet:) I really do wish this view was shared by more people, I don't like segregation.

It is almost understandable for the older generation, but like you say, the younger ones should really know better, but I suppose if you've been brought up to believe that way, then it's gonna rub off, not good imo.

I love Wales and, from my experience, have always found the people to be welcoming & friendly there, apart from a couple who shared the "don't like strangers in these parts" attitude in the countryside somewhere (can't recall the exact place now as it was years ago).

Anyway, I hope you're enjoying life in Aberystwyth apart from those few instances :)

[adimon]

Anyway, I hope you're enjoying life in Aberystwyth apart from those few instances :)

Yes I love walking in the hills. You're welcome to visit anytime :)

[malvern]

for many years, my family have a long house in mid wales.... all around the locals speak welsh.... It's there tonge in some villages, while just down the road they speak english.... something to do with the Victorians i think..... learn a few words myself but have a real problem getting my tonge around the sounds........every one to there own, the way in which we speak should not stop us from finding freedom, if it does, it's not the words but the person.....know abber and surounding aera very well... breath taking...also keep a boat that way......

freedom:)

[pri01]

language evolves in the same way that we do. It moves on with each generation. For example we probably would not be able to have a conversation with Shakespear if he were alive today, talking in the English dialect that he used in his time. With regards to the Welsh language, it probably is only ever going to be useful to those who live in Wales and can speak it. Unless of course anyone knows of it being spoken elswhere.

[real6]

What we need is a One World Language!! :D:p

Abolish language and learn to speak our native communication- Telepathy!! :):cool:


That would def solve one of mankind's Problems!!!

Look at the movie Blade Runner. Edward Olmos had like 3 to 7 spoken languages mixed into one. id perfer to see that

[lilly555]

my blood is about 1% welch:)

plus i have a welch surname...rhymes with bones:D

[adimon]

With regards to the Welsh language, it probably is only ever going to be useful to those who live in Wales and can speak it. Unless of course anyone knows of it being spoken elswhere.

Welsh is actually spoken in parts of Patagonia, Argentina, but only because of emigration. Useless fact of the day. :)

[cf24]

There Definitely has been a drive on in Wales to boost the language, but this has been happening for at least the last ten years or so. Wouldn't say it has increased particularly recently, but it may just seem that way as the general public in Wales are taking more of an interest themselves. You try and get your child into a Welsh language school in Cardiff, then you'll see.

Unfortunately there is still a divide between North and South Wales for some silly reason, definitely has a 'us and then' feel to it..... This is getting much better though imo. Depending on what circles you associate you may or may not notice the ever expanding population of North Welsh peoples in to the Capital, and thus expanding the amount of Welsh speakers also...

The language is said to originate from North Wales, the Snowdonia area, and there are slight differences in the dialect between North and South.

I would say that there are still plenty of Welsh speaking communities still around today. If you go any further west than Llanelli, its quite likely that most of the people in the villages will speak to you in Welsh first..... This is the Same for nearly all of North Wales.
I know plenty of North Welsh people, and quite a few of them live in Cardiff, and ALL of them speak Welsh as a first language...

I'm not a great speaker of Welsh, and I think i've learned that anything that divides the people is not really a good thing. But as for the language, its alive and kicking and stronger than it has been for years......:)

Diolch...:)

[pri01]

Welsh is actually spoken in parts of Patagonia, Argentina, but only because of emigration. Useless fact of the day. :)

I'm very impressed. But why emigrate to Argentina from Wales? The mind boggles. Oh by the way, no fact is useless as it can always be used especially if you dig a quiz night or 2.:)

[lookfar]

I'm very impressed. But why emigrate to Argentina from Wales? The mind boggles. Oh by the way, no fact is useless as it can always be used especially if you dig a quiz night or 2.:)

Hehe, would it have something to do with the sheep maybe, lol??l!!;):p

[lookfar]

Yes I love walking in the hills. You're welcome to visit anytime :)

Ahhh thank you adimon :) There are some beautiful places in Wales for sure.
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/7622/love3blowingkissji2.gif

[lookfar]

for many years, my family have a long house in mid wales.... all around the locals speak welsh.... It's there tonge in some villages, while just down the road they speak english.... something to do with the Victorians i think..... learn a few words myself but have a real problem getting my tonge around the sounds........every one to there own, the way in which we speak should not stop us from finding freedom, if it does, it's not the words but the person.....know abber and surounding aera very well... breath taking...also keep a boat that way......

freedom:)

Hi malvern :)
I agree, I've also tried to pronounce a few words but find it really hard to get my tongue around it, lol!!:p It's using parts of the mouth that we don't normally use with English to get those sounds.

[lookfar]

There Definitely has been a drive on in Wales to boost the language, but this has been happening for at least the last ten years or so. Wouldn't say it has increased particularly recently, but it may just seem that way as the general public in Wales are taking more of an interest themselves. You try and get your child into a Welsh language school in Cardiff, then you'll see.

Unfortunately there is still a divide between North and South Wales for some silly reason, definitely has a 'us and then' feel to it..... This is getting much better though imo. Depending on what circles you associate you may or may not notice the ever expanding population of North Welsh peoples in to the Capital, and thus expanding the amount of Welsh speakers also...

The language is said to originate from North Wales, the Snowdonia area, and there are slight differences in the dialect between North and South.

I would say that there are still plenty of Welsh speaking communities still around today. If you go any further west than Llanelli, its quite likely that most of the people in the villages will speak to you in Welsh first..... This is the Same for nearly all of North Wales.
I know plenty of North Welsh people, and quite a few of them live in Cardiff, and ALL of them speak Welsh as a first language...

I'm not a great speaker of Welsh, and I think i've learned that anything that divides the people is not really a good thing. But as for the language, its alive and kicking and stronger than it has been for years......:)

Diolch...:)

Hey boyo

Firstly, WTF does Diolch mean please?! (which, I might add, is yet another Welsh word that I can't pronounce, lol!!:o)

It's a shame to hear that there is still a north/south divide, I wasn't aware that this was still happening today. I agree that anything that divides is not a good thing & hopefully this will diminish. We the people need to become more united, not divided :)

Big cwytch for ya (I hope you told me the true meaning of that & it's not actually something bad, cos if it is you're in trouble, lol!:p;))

[hagbard_celine]

Hehe, would it have something to do with the sheep maybe, lol??l!!;):p

In the spring perhaps. I go home during shearing season because I prefer them more bare!:D

BTW Don't use the phrase "ram raiding" in Wales. It means something very different!:D:o

[lookfar]

In the spring perhaps. I go home during shearing season because I prefer them more bare!:D

BTW Don't use the phrase "ram raiding" in Wales. It means something very different!:D:o

Hehe, yeah there seems to be a big attraction with "sheared" sheep (or even waxed, lol!:eek:) or so I've heard anyway, lol!!;):D

Hey 'ewe' don't wanna be ram raiding that's for sure, they've got horns EEK, lol!!:eek:;)