View Full Version : Requesting scientific explanations for poltergeist
cultofexperience
14-07-2010, 02:26 AM
Ok - I am inviting all scientifically minded people to examine my experiences and provide explanations for seemingly supernatural events.
I will put them out one at a time, in the chronological order I remember them. I will include as much detail as I can, and explain the ways (if any) that I tried to find alternative explanations.
Ok, event number one.
I moved to Hilo, Hawaii approximately two years ago. Location is fairly near the active volcano on the Big Island. This places it at Hoagland's magical 19.5 location on the planet, which is one possible explanation I suppose, although I do not understand the exact physics involved in hyper-dimensional physics. I'm not certain we can consider that "normal" scientific parameters anyway?
The first day that I arrived my son and I went to the grocery store to pick up a few items. The house was empty at that point, except for an old sofa section and a television.
I put the few groceries inside the upper cupboard in the kitchen. The cupboard had glass doors so you could see inside. One of the items was a bag of tortilla chips, which were placed well back on the shelf and the doors closed.
I am guessing around an hour later we were watching tv in the other room and heard a loud crash. When I ran into the kitchen the bag of tortilla chips were laying in the middle of the floor and the cupboard door was open.
This was an old plantation style house that had been moved to this location after the last tsunami. It had a large square kitchen, and I would estimate the bag flew about 4 feet to reach the middle of the floor from the cabinet.
This is my first experience with such a thing, but of course I had read things and seen movies etc. So we laughed and I JOKINGLY (at first) told my son that we must have ghosts. I introduced myself and my son to them, said we were the new renters, and if they needed anything to let us know.
The next night I put up an inflatable bed in another bedroom. There were sheer gauzy curtains over the four tall windows, and one of the last tenants had put some dried lavender flowers in the hem of the curtains. They had been there a long time, were very overly dried out from the sun, the color was drained out of them, and they were dirty and covered with cobwebs.
I had a sheet, a blanket, and a quilt on the bed. I woke up in the middle of the night and when I raised up to roll over I found a large quantity of lavender flowers underneath my body, so they were stuck to my skin and clothes. Being asleep I first thought I had ants on me, but when I realized it was flowers I went back to sleep. I wasn't fully awake in that semi-sleep state and the strangeness of that didn't dawn on me right then. I just went back to sleep.
When I woke up in the morning I had lavender flowers sprinkled everywhere. They were underneath my body, spread in between each layer of sheets and blankets, and sprinkled on the top of the quilt.
Now my very first thought was that the wind had blown the curtains around, and somehow the flapping around flung the flowers out of the curtain hem. However, after taking the bed completely apart, there was too large a quantity of flowers to have come from the curtains. Also, we closely examined the curtains and the hems were still full with the old dirty ones. It didn't appear they had lost any volume at all.
I would guess there was approximately 2 cups of flowers that came out of my bed. I had my son help me in taking the bed apart so that I had a witness to the fact that they went in between each layer. Even then, I was still not quite believing my eyes. But as more and more things happened, I became more convinced I wasn't imagining things.
If in fact someone/something had done this, the flowers seemed like a friendly gesture, so I did not feel scared or threatened by the experience.
Ok, that is the summary of my first experience. I will fill in details if requested.
Thank you for your assistance. Deca - this one's for you :)
d9d9d9
14-07-2010, 07:48 AM
Interesting thread. Will be keeping my eye on this one, feel free to tell more. And thanks for sharing!
cultofexperience
14-07-2010, 10:44 AM
Thanks D9.
Over time we would find things moved around, but those kinds of experiences are fairly easy to excuse away. The next major event that I recall in sequence was the freezer incident.
First my son found one of his computer parts inside the freezer.
A few hours later we found my son's friend's earring in the freezer. At this point we know this is not an accident.
Later that same day we went to the grocery store. We came home and put everything away. We made dinner, so I would say several hours after the earring was in the freezer my son found one can of cat food. The freezer had not been opened for at least two hours at that point, and when he pulled the can out it was still warm. He immediately handed it to me to see that it was very warm. If it had even been in the freezer for only those two hours it would obviously be cold and frozen. All other cans of cat food were still stacked inside the same glass front cupboard where the tortilla chips flew out of.
I could possibly be convinced that someone had inadvertently put the single can of cat food in the freezer, but I still believe it would not have been warm if that had been the case.
Next incident:
My neighbor was downstairs in the open air basement with me. We clearly heard footsteps above our heads. The ceiling was very low there, so the floor above was only about two feet above our heads. We both heard them and I said that my son must be home from work, although I was not expecting him until later. We casually walked upstairs expecting him to be there but no one was in the house.
My poor neighbor who had not had any of these experiences got fairly freaked out and was quickly walking from one room to the next looking for a person, but there was no one. He looked a little shaken, but I was becoming used to it by then so just laughed it off.
Prior to our moving into the house there had been 7 young university students living there. They had moved into a larger house down the street in the same neighborhood though, and I happened to run into one of the young men in the yard. I asked him if he or his roommates had ever had strange experiences inside the house.
He said that they had noticed things moving around or missing, but there were so many people in and out of the house it was impossible to ever nail it down. As I asked around there was a rumor that an old woman had died in the house years ago, but I wouldn't put much faith in that information. I only heard it from one person, and even if that was the case people die all over the place so I'm not sure that it really mattered.
As I shared my stories with people in town or in the neighborhood, every single person, without exception, gave me advice on how to drive the "ghosts" out of the house, to tell them to go to the light, and that they weren't supposed to be there. The last person that said this to me was supposedly training to be a Huna (Hawaiian medicine man kind of).
I finally asked Mr. Wannabe Huna, why would I be so presumptuous to tell them to leave? They've been living here a lot longer than I have. How do you know that their family hasn't asked them to stay around and protect them? I know very little about Hawaiian religion, but I do know that they continue to speak to their ancestors, maybe they are here for a reason that you know nothing about?
Every bad experience I have heard of has come about after the people have tried to force their visitors to leave. Usually yelling, demanding, throwing holy water around and burning sage like it some kind of magical ghost killer. It just seemed logical to me that if I had lived somewhere for 500 years and some dipshit came on to what I considered my land and started screaming at me to leave, I'd be pretty pissed off too! So with that in mind we just continued being friendly to our roommates, and luckily we never had any kind of what I would consider bad experiences. They seemed either welcoming (like the flowers) or playful, like the things in the freezer.
Usually people are chomping at the bit to say this is all hokum. Where is everybody? Please, I am interested in hearing explanations for how these things occur. The only rule is you cannot just dismiss it all and say it didn't happen. You have to stick within the parameters of the experience as I have outlined it.
As I stated in the original "do you believe in ghosts" thread, I understand that it is difficult to trust my word. I am being as honest as I can based on my recollection of events. There was no way to photograph anything, because a picture of a cat food can in the freezer doesn't prove anything obviously. You would have to be able to anticipate when things would happen, and that was impossible. It was very random. We would go a long time without anything, and then several things in a couple of days.
We lived in a very ghetto part of town there, and our house was broken into several times, had a machete fight break out in front of my house, fights all around (lots of crazy MMA fighters and/or druggies around), lots of domestic abuse situations, and although a couple times I asked our house guests to please protect us and keep these scary things away, that did not happen. They were apparently not in the business of worrying about what happened to us while staying there. But all the bad that happened came from living human beings, not ghostly entities.
sugarray
14-07-2010, 11:17 AM
Could I just say I loved reading your thread and totally admired your approach to the activities.
I was thinking to myself "I'd love to either put an alarm on the freezer door or put a video camera on it" but then I thought, maybe I wouldn't wanna know :D
As for not getting many responses, I find that this category just doesn't get the traffic that "Today's news" and "General" get and I believe that is why a lot of people wrongly use those categories.
The right people will comment soon, I am sure :o
cultofexperience
14-07-2010, 06:07 PM
I find it interesting that any time I go into a thread to discuss these issues the thread becomes almost instantly derailed by people demanding that anyone that believes in ghosts, religion of any kind, aliens, reptilians - whatever - are all delusional crazy people.
So I actively invite all those people to PLEASE come and point out specifically where science can be utilized to dissect these kinds of events and now NO ONE has anything to say?
The crickets are deafening in here!!
gee i have a life you know and have to earn a living.
first video a bit long be well worth it a lot in it
Michael Persinger - Psychotropic drugs and nature of reality
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4292093832329014323#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4292093832329014323#
these are also good
God and the Brain - The Persinger 'God Helmet', The Brain, and visions of God.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2184059515285733378#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2184059515285733378#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2184059515285733378#
Psychic Skills & Miracles - technology used for telepathy and remote viewing
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2184059515285733378#docid=-4975420956593423908
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2184059515285733378#docid=-4975420956593423908
and I have no intrest in doing any research in to you peculiar case....I have enough on my plate at the moment ok.....
plus I don`t have the equipment or the money to investgate it.
try people like this
http://www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com/
I moved to Hilo, Hawaii approximately two years ago. Location is fairly near the active volcano on the Big Island.
seismic activity....earth tremors , faults in the magnetic field, can cause all kinds of things.
cultofexperience
14-07-2010, 06:59 PM
Sorry Deca - don't get your panties in a bunch. You certainly are not the ONLY person on this website that shares your outlook.
If you don't want to or don't have the time to engage in the conversation, fine. Just keep stomping on anyone that says they have had extraordinary experiences because you can't be bothered to actually examine them.
So, anyone else actually interested in a real exchange of ideas? Using real life experience and scientific expertise?
Sorry Deca - don't get your panties in a bunch. You certainly are not the ONLY person on this website that shares your outlook.
If you don't want to or don't have the time to engage in the conversation, fine. Just keep stomping on anyone that says they have had extraordinary experiences because you can't be bothered to actually examine them.
So, anyone else actually interested in a real exchange of ideas? Using real life experience and scientific expertise?
what are the effects of seismic activity ether in the pysical form shaking cupboards,things falling of or the mental effects? via weak complex magnetic fields given off by seismic activity ?
without actully being there and taking readings what can I do ....just argue your belief?
http://www.assap.org/newsite/htmlfiles/Geology.html
One of the factors that paranormal researchers often look at these days is the geology of an area where something weird has been reported. This is particularly so with ghosts, which appear repeatedly in the same place. Some researchers have suggested there could be a link between paranormal reports and geology. Even without such ideas, geology is always worth recording, since no one knows exactly what causes haunting. Given that hauntings are place-related, geology is one of many geographical factors to consider.
Tectonic strain theory
The most popular idea linking geology and reports of the paranormal is the Tectonic Strain Theory. Essentially, the Tectonic Strain Theory (TST) states that stresses within the Earth’s crust, less than those required to produce an earthquake, may result in highly localised surface electromagnetic disturbances through piezoelectricity (or some other mechanism) in sub-surface rocks. Piezoelectricity is the phenomenon whereby certain crystals, notably quartz, produce an electric charge across opposite crystal faces when under physical pressure or strain.
It is hypothesised that the electric and magnetic fields produced by such rock strain will be commonest near geological faults (see right). These cracks in the Earth's crust are, like cracks in most objects, signs of strain and movement.
Quartz generally occurs underground within other rocks, like granite. The quartz crystals are separated from each other by other minerals. If you crush granite, an electric charge will build up across individual quartz crystals. However, since the crystals are orientated randomly, the electric charges (which occur on opposite sides of each crystal) do not align. Therefore, they tend to cancel each other out rather than combining to form a strong overall electric field. So simple strain seems unlikely to produce significant electromagnetic fields above ground through piezoelectricity. If the rocks actually fracture, however, during an earthquake for instance, you well might get electromagnetic fields produced by seismoelectric conversion. Some earthquakes have indeed been accompanied by weak but measurable magnetic disturbances.
A scientist called Friedemann Freund has suggested that electric charges could be induced to flow by applying unusual pressure (through tectonic stress) to igneous rocks (normally insulators) turning them into semi-conductors. When the rocks are turned temporarily into semiconductors, holes (positively charged discontinuities) can flow rapidly through the rocks and might even reach the surface. The charges are conducted around underground both by rocks, in their semi-conductor state, and by water. This may be the mechanism behind earthquake lights. The theory is still being developed but it looks promising.
Field researchers are therefore advised to examine local geology (particularly the presence of faults and igneous rocks, such as granite, diorite, gabbro, basalt, etc.) thoroughly in their investigations and see if any magnetic disturbances detected can be traced to an underground source.
For more on the tectonic strain theory, see this study.
bemore
14-07-2010, 08:57 PM
I had a ghost experience that was very unusual.
11 years ago I was at one of my ex-girlfriends house. There was me, my ex, her brother and one of my exs friends. It was a cold night and there was condensation on the window, tom, my exs brother wrote his name in the condensation backwards (so people looking up at the window would see it wrote the right way).
Afterwards the curtains started to sway slowly. There was no windows open, nor doors and no draught whatsoever. Then 4 spots appeared all in a line next to each other in the condensation. These spots then started to grow into lines going downwards. Much like 4 fingers were moving down the window through the condensation.
I was fascinated by this and against everybodys advice (they were freaking out) I went really close to the window. The curtains were still gently swaying and I put my face about 2 inches away from the lines and continued to watch them.
What was interesting is when condensation builds up and you make a line going downwards through it, as your finger moves through the condensation it obviously pushes the moisture to each side and downwards. The moisture that gets pushed downwards builds up and when you stop making the line this build up of moisture/water will continue to rivulet down through the rest of the moisture.
This did not happen on the window.
There was a bang downstairs and everybody freaked out and we all ran out the house into the back yard. We were all looking up at her bedroom window and where Tom had wrote his name in the condensation it was like a hand rubbed it out completly. When I went upstairs and looked at where it was rubbed out again there was no build up of pushed moisture or anything.
Very strange indeed.
Also my sister has a small ability of psychometry (the ability to recieve information through holding objects) and me and my current girlfriend tested her.
Laura my GFs grandma passed away 4 years ago and she had a pair of her glasses that we gave to my sister to hold. She came up with the info of her crouching down to smoke fags, how she allways carried a certain bag with her full of junk. She also came up with information about a joke on the toilet. This puzzled my girlfriend and she knew nothing about the joke on the toilet so she rang her mum and relayed the information and her mum confirmed that for years they used to have a joke about shutting the toilet door.
Just thought id share :)
Cultofexperince firstly thanks for sharing your experinces. It does not sound like what is happening in your home is very dangerous. Also the flowers that were put on your bed sounds like a welcome gesture. The hiding of things is very playfull, maybe spirit children????
Have you ever thought about inviting a medium round to see what they pick up???
Volcano Infrasound: Acoustic Surveillance for Hazardous Eruptions
Volcano Infrasound: Acoustic Surveillance for Hazardous Eruptions - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r0g_Dw7lJI
not really worth watching but it does prove that
Big volcanic eruptions - from strong Vulcanian to Plinian - create low frequency sound that travels for hundreds to thousands of kilometers in Earth's atmosphere. In this video Dr. Garces outlines how infrasound can automatically identify eruptions that inject ash into aircraft cruising altitudes.
infrasounds has been know to create a load of Paranormal experiences
have you ever looked at EMF/infrasound other seismic activity as an explanation ?
my guess is you have not but have hear of poltergeist and belief you have been a victim of one and searched your memory and strung together all types of unknow things that happened to you or any newthing and say it is the "poltergeist" that done that.
ChristPsychosis, How it Creates Belief in God & the Supernatural 053010.mov
ChristPsychosis, How it Creates Belief in God & the Supernatural 053010.mov - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4juMOg1uQA
Explaining how the Brain creates the Presence of God, Ghosts & the supernatural. Accepting these delusions as REALITY is sign of Neurological Disorder. Belief in God is a dangerous psychosis that could make us EXTINCT