Many 9-11 "hijackers" are still alive.

[lightgiver]

Abdul Aziz Al-Omari (Flight 11) (Trained Pilot)

The identities of two men with the same name have been cobbled together to create an FBI "terrorist". Both are Alive!

The first has the same name, the same birth date as one of the FBI "terrorists" but has no idea how to fly.

The second has the name Abdul Rahman Al-Omari and a different birth date, but is the person pictured by the FBI and is a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines.

Here are some quotes from the world's media concerning them.

Omari Number 1

"A Saudi man has reported to authorities that he is the real Abdul Aziz Al-Omari, and claims his passport was stolen in 1995 while he studied electrical engineering at the University of Denver. Al-Omari says he informed police of the theft." - ABCNews

"I couldn't believe it when the FBI put me on their list. They gave my name and my date of birth, but I am not a suicide bomber. I am here. I am alive. I have no idea how to fly a plane. I had nothing to do with this." - Telegraph 23rd September 2001

"The name (listed by the FBI) is my name and the birth date is the same as mine, but I am not the one who bombed the World Trade Center in New York," Abdul Aziz Al-Omari told the London-based Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper.

"Al-Omari has since been found in Saudi Arabia and is apparently cleared in the case" - New York Times

"Saudi Embassy officials in Washington have challenged his identity. They say a Saudi electrical engineer named Abdul Aziz Al-Omari had his passport and other papers stolen in 1996 in Denver when he was a student and reported the theft to police there at the time." - BBC

"Abdel Aziz Al-Omari and Saïd Hussein Gharamallah Al-Ghamdi, are well in life, the first in Saudi Arabia and the second in Tunisia for nine months." - Wal Fadjri 21st September 2001 (translate)

Omari Number 2

Mr. Al-Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines, walked into the US embassy in Jeddah to demand why he was being reported as a dead hijacker in the American media.

"Abdul Aziz Al-Omari is a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines" - BBC 23rd September 2001

"A pilot with Saudi Airlines, was astonished to find himself accused of hijacking ­ as well as being dead ­ and has visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation." - Independent 17th September 2001

This Al-Omari lives with his wife and four children in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.


Saeed Al-Ghamdi (Flight 93) (Trained Pilot)

"Saeed Al-Ghamdi is one of three hijackers that US officials have said are linked to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network." - BBC

No BBC! Mr. Al-Ghamdi is still alive and well and at his job for Tunis Air.

"I was completely shocked. For the past 10 months I have been based in Tunis with 22 other pilots learning to fly an Airbus 320. The FBI provided no evidence of my presumed involvement in the attacks." - Telegraph 23rd September 2001

"Asharq Al Awsat newspaper, a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Al-Ghamdi." - BBC 23rd September 2001

"Abdel Aziz Al-Omari and Saïd Hussein Gharamallah Al-Ghamdi, are well in life, the first in Saudi Arabia and the second in Tunisia for nine months." - Wal Fadjri 21st September 2001 (translate)

"..... not dead and had nothing to do with the heinous terror attacks in New York and Washington." - Saudi embassy


Waleed Al-Shehri (Flight 11) (Trained Pilot)

"A sixth person on the FBI's list, Saudi national Waleed Al-Shehri, is living in Casablanca, according to an official with the Royal Air Moroc, the Moroccan commercial airline. According to the unnamed official, Al-Shehri lived in Dayton Beach, Fla., where he took flight training at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Now he works for a Moroccan airline." On Sept. 22, Associated Press reported that Alshehri had spoken to the U.S. embassy in Morocco.

"His photograph was released by the FBI, and has been shown in newspapers and on television around the world. That same Mr Al-Shehri has turned up in Morocco, proving clearly that he was not a member of the suicide attack." - Daily Trust 24th September 2001.

"He was reported to have been in Hollywood, Florida, for a month earlier this year but his father, Ahmed, said that Waleed was alive and well and living in Morocco." - Telegraph

"Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well." - BBC 23rd September 2001.


Ahmed Al-Nami (Flight 93)

"I'm still alive, as you can see. I was shocked to see my name mentioned by the American Justice Department. I had never even heard of Pennsylvania where the plane I was supposed to have hijacked." He had never lost his passport and found it "very worrying" that his identity appeared to have been "stolen" and published by the FBI without any checks. The FBI had said his "possible residence" was Delray Beach in Florida." - Telegraph 23rd September 2001


Salem Al-Hazmi (Flight 77)

"Mr Al-Hamzi is 26 and had just returned to work at a petrochemical complex in the industrial eastern city of Yanbou after a holiday in Saudi Arabia when the hijackers struck. He was accused of hijacking the American Airlines Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon." - Telegraph 23rd September 2001.


Khalid Al-Mihdhar (Flight 77)

"Saudi officials at the embassy were unable to verify the whereabouts of the fifth accused hijacker, Khalid Al-Mihdhar. However, Arab newspapers say Al-Mihdhar is still alive.

"..... there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar may also be alive." - BBC 23rd September 2001


Others accused of being involved:

Ameer Bukhari

"Ameer Bukhari died in a small plane crash last year." - CNN Correction

Adnan Bukhari

"Adnan Bukhari is still in Florida" - CNN Correction

Amer Kamfar

".... that a suspect sought by the FBI, Amer Kamfar, was in fact an alive pilot in Arabia. " - Wal Fadjri 21st September 2001




THE ARABS ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR THE WTC ATTACK.


The evidence is such that the only people we can be sure DID NOT carry out the WTC bombing are the Arabs.

The trouble with the case against bin Laden and the Arabs, so far, is that it is laughable. It is a joke.

1) The WTC attack, described as brilliantly planned and executed by professionals, who some how forget to acquire (easily obtainable) false driver's licenses for identification and, if you can believe it (and most people can not) used their real names when boarding the aircraft. The FBI suspect list was comprised using the assumption that those on the passenger lists had used their real names (real smart,.. these guys really earn their money eh?).

2) These same professionals, leave a car at an airport (which is found within hours of the attack,.. what a surprise!) with incriminating documents (a flight training manual in Arabic). Professionals, (actually any sane persons) not wanting their "ground support" to be compromised, would take taxis to the airports.

3) When it is established that many, if not all the hi-jackers were using false identities the FBI suspect list did not change (yeah, morons run the FBI).

4) One of the accused carries a passport on an internal flight (in case he wants to travel overseas after the attack).

5) This passport, originally in the accuseds luggage or on his person, rips through the suitcase or jacket, survives the fireball, punches a hole through the WTC and then flutters to the ground a few blocks away. Fortunately, the passport had the name of the accused on it and is generally in great condition, although apparently somewhat muddy.

6) One of the accused (Mohammed Atta) packs a suitcase (in case he wants to visit relatives for a few days after the attack) with a "how to be a terrorist in the US" document (just part of the professionalism, mentioned above) that just happens not to be loaded on the plane (so that the incriminating document survives,.. what a surprise!).

7) Mohammed Atta travels to Portland Maine to fly to Boston (why not drive straight to Boston) and transfer to the suicide flight. This is utterly unbelievable. This introduces a huge potential problem. What happens if his flight is delayed. How embarrassing for the so called leader of the terrorists, if he can't make his connection. That would throw a spanner in the works. Transferring flights like this offers no upside but huge downside, and is considerable evidence that Atta has been framed.

8) And do not forget that phone calls were made from the planes blamed the hijacking on Israelis (actually, they used the words "middle eastern looking" but we all know that many Israelis are very middle eastern looking).

These laughable "facts" which all point to the Arabs can be viewed as strong evidence that the WTC attack was not carried out by the Arabs. These nonsense "facts" all point to an event where someone is being framed.


http://guardian.150m.com/september-eleven/hijackers-alive.htm

[ultima1]

The status of the following 32 hijackers is ALIVE.

http://www.trackingthethreat.com/zsearch/ent.jsp?entId=1078
Majed Moqed
Entity Type: Person
Entity Status: Alive
Start Date:
End Date:
Date Created: 22 Sep 2003
Date Modified: 06 Jun 2007

http://www.trackingthethreat.com/zsearch/ent.jsp?entId=1017
Ahmed Alnami
Entity Type: Person
Entity Status: Alive
Start Date:
End Date:
Date Created: 22 Sep 2003
Date Modified: 06 Jun 2007

[tabea_blumenschein]

Wow, you can find someone else with the same name as (fill in the blank) if you bother to look. What a momentous discovery.

[dusan]

The status of the following 32 hijackers is ALIVE.

http://www.trackingthethreat.com/zsearch/ent.jsp?entId=1078
Majed Moqed
Entity Type: Person
Entity Status: Alive
Start Date:
End Date:
Date Created: 22 Sep 2003
Date Modified: 06 Jun 2007

http://www.trackingthethreat.com/zsearch/ent.jsp?entId=1017
Ahmed Alnami
Entity Type: Person
Entity Status: Alive
Start Date:
End Date:
Date Created: 22 Sep 2003
Date Modified: 06 Jun 2007
im not denying 911 inside job, but what you put there does not prove anything


http://www.911myths.com/html/abdulaziz_al_omari_still_alive.html

[dusan]

http://www.welfarestate.com/911/atta.txt

this is not evidence but t gives an idea of what happened to some of the hijackers

mohammed atta

http://www.welfarestate.com/911/atta.txt

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/welfarestate_hijackers.html#9

[dusan]

and what about this one?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm


i would love to see a video or a photo of one of the hijackers after 9 11
that i would call evidence.
i still believe 911 is an inside job, but im looking for solid evidence because i really want to show to a friend of mine so i can wake him up!

[ellis_deatrip]

Many "victims" are not listed as dead either.
Funny how it went from 20,000 deaths , down to 10,000 withinin the first hours. On Sept. 23, 2001, Retard Giuliani Made the blatant claim of 6,333 deaths.(nice number:rolleyes:) Even to this day , one cannot get a clear, exact, consistent number of actual victims.And furthermore an unusual percent of listed "victims" names are not listed in the SSDI(Social Security Death Index).

[ultima1]

im not denying 911 inside job, but what you put there does not prove anything

Well it proves that at leaast 2 of the hijackers that were supposed to be on the planes are alive.

[throatyogurt]

The status of the following 32 hijackers is ALIVE.

http://www.trackingthethreat.com/zsearch/ent.jsp?entId=1078
Majed Moqed
Entity Type: Person
Entity Status: Alive
Start Date:
End Date:
Date Created: 22 Sep 2003
Date Modified: 06 Jun 2007

http://www.trackingthethreat.com/zsearch/ent.jsp?entId=1017
Ahmed Alnami
Entity Type: Person
Entity Status: Alive
Start Date:
End Date:
Date Created: 22 Sep 2003
Date Modified: 06 Jun 2007


Why do you continue to spread this crap, Roger? You have been told time and time again that this is not reliable.

From the website:

While we have attempted to assign some degree of credibility to its accuracy, no representation is made or implied that all data contained herein is completely reliable. Users of any TrackingTheThreat.com content are cautioned and advised that they should do their own independent verification of any information.
http://www.trackingthethreat.com/about/

So Roger, what steps if any, have to taken to verify this information?

[luciferhorus]

The status of the following 32 hijackers is ALIVE.

http://www.trackingthethreat.com/zsearch/ent.jsp?entId=1078
Majed Moqed
Entity Type: Person
Entity Status: Alive
Start Date:
End Date:
Date Created: 22 Sep 2003
Date Modified: 06 Jun 2007

"Miracle" Majed

Majed Moqed, A Saudi Law student, has not been seen by his family since he left for America in 2001; unlike some of the other hijackers who "can" be proven to be still alive, the same proof does not exist for Majed.

Majed according to US state terrorist propaganda, was on flight 77, which flew into the Pentagon; the aircraft then dissapeared into a tiny hole a few feet wide which squashed the entire aircraft including wings, engines, landing gear and all the passengers.

By some miracle, despite the entire craft being squashed through a tiny hole, "Miracle" Majed also had a "miracle" student ID card which probably flew out of his pocket and miraculously survived the crash.

".....the U.S. announced it had found a "Kingdom of Saudi Arabia Student Identity Card" bearing Moqed's name in the rubble surrounding the Pentagon. They also stated that it appeared to have been a forgery (source: 911 Commission Report)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majed_Moqed

Thankfully, although the entire Boeing aircraft manage to squash itself through a hole a few feet wide, the survival of his plastic ID card assures us that this miracle undertaken by a Saudi Muslim, proves once again that miracles are possible to those who have faith in Allah, the CIA created Al Queda and the assistance of US state terrorist propaganda.

http://visibility911.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/pentagon-hole.jpg

http://911review.org/brad.com/pentagon/purdue/hole2.jpg

http://nomoregames.net/911/we_have_holes/pentagon_montage.jpg

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/st911/docs/delmont1.jpg

http://lege.net/blog.lege.net/911review.com/errors/pentagon/imgs/pentmorris.jpg

Whereas at the WTC:

http://www.kasjo.net/ats/wtcimpac.jpg



http://www.trackingthethreat.com/zsearch/ent.jsp?entId=1017
Ahmed Alnami
Entity Type: Person
Entity Status: Alive
Start Date:
End Date:
Date Created: 22 Sep 2003
Date Modified: 06 Jun 2007

Amazing Ahmed

There are a number of Saudi's called Ahmed Alnami, who were alarmed at their name being used to identify a hijacker, however the Ahmed Alnami described by the US state terrorists also a Saudi Law student, does not appear to be alive.

Ahmed Alnami also perfomed a great miracle with the assistance of US state terrorist propaganda, he apparently managed to be one of those who crashed flight 77 into a field in Shanksville without leaving a trail of debis.

Dissapearing aircraft and plastic ID cards which leap out of exploding aircraft appear to be the kind of miracles possible for those who have faith in Allah and in US state terrorist propaganda. "Allah Achkba" - God may be "great," but She just seems to have lousy staff, who despite billions of dollars of advanced military technology, don't seem to be able to properly fake missile attacks to make them look like aircraft crashes.



Lux

[throatyogurt]

"Miracle" Majed
unlike some of the other hijackers who "can" be proven to be still alive, the same proof does not exist for Majed.

Really? You can prove this? Please, start by showing me the proof here... THEN make sure you get this amazing information to the media so they can report it. I predict a Pulitzer for you, amazing Lucifer!

[throatyogurt]

"Miracle" Majed
By some miracle, despite the entire craft being squashed through a tiny hole, "Miracle" Majed also had a "miracle" student ID card which probably flew out of his pocket and miraculously survived the crash.


Can you please supply us with the measurements of this tiny hole and the source for this information.

Thank you in advance Lucifer!

[coco]

http://i30.tinypic.com/2yoeept.jpg

[luciferhorus]

Really? You can prove this? Please, start by showing me the proof here... THEN make sure you get this amazing information to the media so they can report it. I predict a Pulitzer for you, amazing Lucifer!

Well let us consider the statement.

"Miracle" Majed
unlike some of the other hijackers who "can" be proven to be still alive, the same proof does not exist for Majed."

Yes well perhaps the term "proof" is too definite a term and I should have used the term "evidence" rather than absolute proof.

What I am stating here is that

1: There is no evidence which would appear to establish any form of "proof" that Majed is still alive. In the absence of such proof or "evidence" that he is still alive, I would ask you to offer evidence that he is still alive.

2: With regards to other hijackers who have been shown to be still alive, this has been discussed on other threads. However the term "proof" is perhaps too strong; with regards to the BBC article below, there would appear to be "evidence" that, for example Waleed Al Shehri is still alive, but unfortunately; I cannot "prove" that any more than I can disprove that there is a tea pot circumnavigating the sun, since the BBC may simply be lying or Waleed Al Shehri may be lying; perhaps he really was a hijacker but was miraculously blown free of the wreckage when his aircraft collided with the Twin Towers and managed to secretly make his way back to Morocco.


For example.




The following article is from the BBC:

Waleed Al Shehri (Wail M. Alshehri's brother)


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/1559151.stm

"Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.

.....

Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.

His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world.

Hijacking suspects
...................
Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.

He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.

He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Daytona Beach in the United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been referring.

But, he says, he left the United States in September last year, became a pilot with Saudi Arabian airlines and is currently on a further training course in Morocco. "

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Salem-NJ-ID-Cardjpg.jpg

Salem Al-Hazmi

The real Salem Al-Hazmi, however, is alive and indignant in Saudi Arabia, and not one of the people who perished in the American Airlines flight that crashed on the Pentagon. He works at a government-owned petroleum and chemical plant in the city of Yanbu. He said yesterday he had not left Saudi Arabia for two years, but that his passport had been stolen by a pickpocket in Cairo three years ago. http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers_flt_77.html

.................
Lux

Can you please supply us with the measurements of this tiny hole and the source for this information.

Thank you in advance Lucifer!

Well I don't have the ability to measure the hole; I am merely referring to the hole in the photographs prior to the collapse in the wall which the Boeing aircraft dissapeared into; perhaps you could supply the size of the hole yourself.

http://911review.org/brad.com/pentagon/purdue/hole2.jpg

http://911review.org/brad.com/pentagon/purdue/no_engine_hit_between__16and17-2.JPG

http://911lies.org/images2/16_foot_hole_pentagon.jpg

http://www.orwelltoday.com/planepentagon.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/2yoeept.jpg

Compare with:

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/reynolds/docs/WTC1_hole.jpg


Well Coco that is not the "entry hole" at the front of the building; that one is the exit hole at the other side.

Of course apart from a Boeing Aircraft disappearing through a tiny hole, the hijackers would have had to crawl across the fuselage while the plane was in flight to get into the cockpit through the windows at the front of the craft, and hacked their way through aluminim or toughened glass with boxcutters, since the cockpit door allegedly remained closed for the entire flight.

9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/american_77_hijack_impossible.html

(PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled "FLT DECK DOOR", cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act..................according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed

[throatyogurt]

What I am stating here is that

1: There is no evidence which would appear to establish any form of "proof" that Majed is still alive. In the absence of such proof or "evidence" that he is still alive, I would ask you to offer evidence that he is still alive.

I can't, he is dead.

2: <snip>with regards to the BBC article below, there would appear to be "evidence" that, for example Waleed Al Shehri is still alive

Did you happen to read the bottom of the article from the BBC that was written on 9/23/01?

(Note: An update on this story was published in October 2006 in the BBC News editors' blog)

I suggest you read it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html



Well I don't have the ability to measure the hole; I am merely referring to the hole in the photographs prior to the collapse in the wall which the Boeing aircraft dissapeared into; perhaps you could supply the size of the hole yourself.

Sir, you are stating that the hole was tiny. Are you implying that it was to small to have been caused by flight 77?

[luciferhorus]

I can't, he is dead.


Well I suggest that you either read what you are responding to or perhaps you may consider taking a literacy skills class.

I stated "unlike some of the other hijackers who "can" be proven to be still alive, the same proof does not exist for Majed."

In other words I was stating that there is no proof that he is still alive. You asked me to prove this and I replied that I cannot prove that he is dead; I then asked you to prove that he is dead, and you reply "I can't, he is dead."

I do understand that most Americans are barely literate enough to read a cornflake's packet, but very minimal literacy skills are required to understand the stupidity of this.


Did you happen to read the bottom of the article from the BBC that was written on 9/23/01?

I suggest you read it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html


Well that hyperlink refers to an update to the article in 2006 which concludes:

"In an effort to make this clearer, we have made one small change to the original story. Under the FBI picture of Waleed al Shehri we have added the words "A man called Waleed Al Shehri..." to make it as clear as possible that there was confusion over the identity. The rest of the story remains as it was in the archive as a record of the situation at the time. "

So let us examine the orginal claims by the BBC:

"He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Daytona Beach in the United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been referring.

But, he says, he left the United States in September last year, became a pilot with Saudi Arabian airlines and is currently on a further training course in Morocco."

So two Saudi Pilots with the same name who were both in the United States. Yes I suppose it may well be a coincidence or it just may be the BBC covering it's tracks; the BBC is after all a state terrorist propaganda front for the British military; I concede that they are terrorist collaborators and not a reliable source. I suppose that it would be better simply to state that the evidence on Waleed being alive or dead is inconclusive as this point and that it is disputed.


Sir, you are stating that the hole was tiny. Are you implying that it was to small to have been caused by flight 77?

Well that is the judgement of "Pilots for 9/11 Truth" and Scholars for 9/11 Truth.

I am not a "Sir" by the way; I have not been knighted by the Queen and since I seek the overthrow of her government and the annihilation of her kingdom and her state terrorist / narco-terrorist military, I thus think that a knighthood is as unlikely as Elizabeth Windsor (Jesus' representative on earth to all Anglicans) donating all her wealth to the poor or of camels passing through the eyes of needles, etc.

With regards to myself, I do not claim to be an expert in flight aviation, nor in aircraft engineering, nor in the specialist academic sciences of civil (structural) engineering or physics. This is probably true for most people here and thus, just like any judge and jury, we are reliant on the testimony of "credible" expert witnesses; however as the judge of this matter, it is quite reasonable to discount the testimony of all US state terrorist collaborators since the US state terrorists have a long history of deception, black military operations, genocide, war, imperalism and assorted terrorism & narco-terrorism in general.

Perhaps you might also state your professional qualifications in this matter, or are you just another terrorist collaborator who blindly and unquestioningly accepts whatever the current position of the American state terrorists is?

If you have some expertise in this matter and are willing to state that, I would suggest you respond to the "Scholars for 911 truth" and "Pilots for 911 Truth" statements on the Pentagon attack, after you have taken a few basic literacy classes, of course.

Lux

"New study from Pilots for 9/11 Truth

No Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon

http://twilightpines.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=67

ABSTRACT: Pilots for 9/11 Truth obtained black box data from the government under the Freedom of Information Act for AA Flight 77, which The 9/11 Report claims hit the Pentagon. Analysis of the data contradicts the official account in direction, approach, and altitude. The plane was too high to hit lamp posts and would have flown over the Pentagon, not impacted with its ground floor. This result confirms and strengthens the previous findings of Scholars for 9/11 Truth that no Boeing 757 hit the building.


Madison, WI (PRWEB) June 21, 2007 - A study of the black box data provided by the government to Pilots for 9/11 Truth has confirmed the previous findings of Scholars for 9/11 Truth that no Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11. "We have had four lines of proof that no Boeing 757 hit the building," said James Fetzer, founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth. "This new study by Pilots drives another nail into a coffin of lies told the American people by The 9/11 Commission":

The new society, an international organization of pilots and aviation professionals, petitioned the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) under the Freedom of Information Act and obtained its 2002 report on American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757 that, according to the official account, hit the ground floor of the Pentagon after it skimmed over the lawn at 500 mph plus, taking out a series of lamp posts in the process. The pilots not only obtained the flight data but created a computer animation to demonstrate what it told them.

According to the report issued by Pilots for 9/11 Truth (http://pilotsfor911truth.org/), there are major differences between the official account and the flight data:

a. The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events.
b. All altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles.
c. The rate of descent data is in direct conflict with the aircraft being able to impact the light poles and be captured in the Dept of Defense "5 Frames" video of an object traveling nearly parallel with the Pentagon lawn.
d. The record of data stops at least one second prior to official impact time.
e. If data trends are continued, the aircraft altitude would have been at least 100 feet too high to have hit the Pentagon.

As Robert Balsamo, co-founder of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, observes, "The information in the NSTB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, 2001." The study was signed by fifteen professional pilots with extensive military and commercial carrier experience. They have made their animation, "Pandora's Box: Chapter 2," available to the public at http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Pandora's+Black+Box%3A+Chapter+2 .

According to James H. Fetzer, founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth (http://911scholars.org), this result fits into the broader picture of what happened at the Pentagon that day. "We have developed four lines of argument that prove--conclusively, in my judgment--that no Boeing 757 hit the building. The most important evidence to the contrary has been the numerous eyewitness reports of a large commercial carrier coming toward the building. If the NTSB data is correct, then the Pilot's study shows that a large aircraft headed toward the building but did not impact with it. It swerved off and flew above the Pentagon."

Fetzer, who retired last June after 35 years of teaching courses in logic, critical thinking, and scientific reasoning, expressed pleasure over the Pilot's results, which, he said, has neatly resolved the most pressing issue that remained about the Pentagon. He added, "We have previously developed several lines of argument, each of which proves that no Boeing 757 hit the building," including these four:

(1) The hit point at the Pentagon was too small to accommodate a 100-ton airliner with a 125-foot wingspan and a tail that stands 44 feet above the ground; the kind and quantity of debris was wrong for a Boeing 757: there were no wings, no fuselage, no seats, no bodies, no luggage, no tail! Not even the engines were recovered, and they are practically indestructible.

(2) Of an estimate 84 videotapes of the crash, the three that have been released by the Pentagon do not show a Boeing 757 hitting the building, as even Bill O'Reilly admitted when one was shown on "The Factor". At 155 feet, the plane was more than twice as long as the 77-foot Pentagon is high and should have been visible. There are indications of a much smaller plane, but not a Boeing 757.

(3) Indeed, the aerodynamics of flight would have made the official trajectory--flying more than 500 mph barely above ground level--physically impossible, because of the accumulation of a massive pocket of compressed gas (air) beneath the fuselage; and if it had come it at an angle instead, it would have created a massive crater; but there is no crater and the official trajectory is impossible.

(4) Flying low enough to impact with the ground floor would have meant that the enormous engines were plowing the ground and creating massive furrows; but there are no massive furrows. The smooth, unblemished surface of the Pentagon lawn thus stands as a "smoking gun" proving the official trajectory cannot be sustained.

Members of Scholars have contributed to a new book that analyses the government's official account, according to which 19 Islamic fundamentalists hijacked four commercial airliners, outfoxed the most sophisticated air-defense system in the world, and committed these atrocities under the control of a man in a cave in Afghanistan. Entitled, THE 9/11 CONSPIRACY (2007), it includes photographs of the hit point before and after the upper floors collapsed, the crucial frame from the released videos, and views of the clear, smooth, and unblemished lawn.

"Don't be taken in by photos showing damage to the second floor or those taken after the upper floors collapsed, which happened 20-30 minutes later," Fetzer said. "In fact, debris begins to show up on the completely clean lawn in short order, which might have been dropped from a C-130 that was circling above the Pentagon or placed there by men in suits who were photographed carrying debris with them." The most striking is a piece from the fuselage of a commercial airliner, which is frequently adduced as evidence.

James Hanson, a newspaper reporter who earned his law degree from the University of Michigan College of Law, has traced that debris to an American Airlines 757 that crashed in a rain forest above Cali, Columbia in 1995. "It was the kind of slow-speed crash that would have torn off paneling in this fashion, with no fires, leaving them largely intact." Fetzer has been so impressed with his research he has invited Hanson to submit his study to Scholars for consideration for publication on its web site, 911scholars.org.

"The Pentagon has become a kind of litmus test for rationality in the study of 9/11," Fetzer said. "Those who persist in maintaining that a Boeing 757 hit the building are either unfamiliar with the evidence or cognitively impaired. Unless," he added, "they want to mislead the American people. The evidence is beyond clear and compelling. It places this issue 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. No Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon."

James H. Fetzer
Founder
Scholars for 9/11 Truth"

http://twilightpines.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=67

[throatyogurt]

Well I suggest that you either read what you are responding to or perhaps you may consider taking a literary class.

Perhaps you can read the text from you that I quoted. I was asking for the proof you claimed to have had for the alive hijackers. (as you posted here)-

I stated "unlike some of the other hijackers who "can" be proven to be still alive, the same proof does not exist for Majed."


You have since conceded the fact that this statement by you is erroneous and you can not prove ANY of the hijackers are still alive. Apparently there was some miss-communication in my post, I regret that. Be that as it may, my point stands. No one can prove any of the 19 hijackers were alive post 9-11.



I do understand that most Americans are barely literate enough to read a cornflake's packet, but very minimal literacy skills are required to understand the stupidity of this.

Playground antics do nothing to phase me. Keep em coming, you are only digging a deeper ditch. I will be forced to add (sic) to all your spelling errors. (there are many)



Well that hyperlink refers to an update to the article in 2006 which concludes:

"In an effort to make this clearer, we have made one small change to the original story. Under the FBI picture of Waleed al Shehri we have added the words "A man called Waleed Al Shehri..." to make it as clear as possible that there was confusion over the identity. The rest of the story remains as it was in the archive as a record of the situation at the time. "

Typical Truther antics. You skipped over the entire article and only posted the conclusion. Why?

Perhaps because the article states this:



The story, written in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, was about confusion at the time surrounding the names and identities of some of the hijackers.

We later reported on the list of hijackers, thereby superseding the earlier report.

The confusion over names and identities we reported back in 2001 may have arisen because these were common Arabic and Islamic names.

So, your "evidence" from the BBC article is moot. Please feel free to post what further evidence you have that shows any of the 19 still alive.






Well that is the judgement of "Pilots for 9/11 Truth" and Scholars for 9/11 Truth.

With regards to myself, I do not claim to be an expert in flight aviation, nor in aircraft engineering, nor in the specialist sciences of civil (structural) engineering or physics. This is probably probably true for most people here and thus, just like any judge and jury, we are reliant on the testimony of "credible" expert witnesses; however as the judge of this matter, it is quite reasonable to discount the testimony of all US state terrorist collaborators since the US state terrorists have a long history of deception, black military operations, genocide, war, imperalism and terrorism in general.

So, you listen only to conspiracy theorists? Rob Balsamo? Why would you listen to him? Because he has a website? The man is unemployed and admittedly had to live in one of his members basement because he got kicked out of another friends house that was putting him up. He has been proven wrong on so many occasions it isn't funny. Then you site the "Scholars" for 9/11 truth. Is this the site that "peer reviews" their own articles?

Your obvious paranoia with the American Government means you are unable to accept any agency that agrees with the findings of the NIST, 911 Commission, or any other investigative entity that does not support the fantasy of the Truth Movement.

Since you brought up the Pentagon, and the "tiny" hole, simple math will show you that the hole was not too small.

You posted a picture from Purdue's Computing Research Institute. Have you examined this information, or did you hand wave it away? It was accepted by many REAL Engineering firms and considered factual. Not one... I repeat not ONE paper has been submitted for peer reviews that refutes the work of Mete A. Sozen, Sami A. Kilic and Christoph M. Hoffmann.

In addition to the Purdue research, have you read the Pentagon Building Performance Report? If so, did you understand it? If not, do you contact a licensed engineer to answer the questions you had?


Perhaps you might also state your professional qualifications in this matter, or are you just another terrorist collaborator who blindly and unquestioningly accepts whatever the current position of the American state terrorists is?

Terrorist Collaborator. That's a new one I have to admit. I am usually a shill or a government loyalist.

Back to Mr. Balsamo. If you read his forum, you will find that there is/was a member named Warren Stutt. (spelling) He in fact, decrypted the FDR and found that the last few seconds that were in question by pilots 4 911 truth were in fact favorable for the plane colliding with the Pentagon. The thing about Balsamo is, when proven wrong he still leaves his garbage on his site. (you may want to look into the "no seat back phones were available on 9/11") He was laughed out of several sites when confronted with that line of BS.

Your extensive post regarding Mr. James "no-Planer" Fetzer is a joke. This includes the extremely laughable "Fly Over" at the Pentagon.

(1) The hit point - Where are his calculations? Does he know the circumference of a Boeing 757? Does he know the size of the entrance hole? How did he get to this conclusion that it was too small?

(2)There were NOT 84 videos confiscated that show the impact. This was concluded by a Truther VIA FOIA. Regarding the witnesses to flight 77, as Fetzer states in (1) and contradicts in (2) that it was a large plane.

(3)Fetzer states: "flying more than 500 mph barely above ground level--physically impossible, because of the accumulation of a massive pocket of compressed gas (air) beneath the fuselage;" This is an outright lie. Go on youtube and search for airshows where there are VERY large jets doing exactly what he states is impossible.

(4) Fetzer hasn't a CLUE as to the height of the engines of a 757. Think about it.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z204/CaptainObvious2007/compmix2.jpg

[luciferhorus]

Terrorist Collaborator. That's a new one I have to admit. I am usually a shill or a government loyalist.

Thank your for that admission of terrorist collaboration. A “government loyalist” is a terrorist collaborator in my judgement, a person of no moral worth, a useless eater, etc. Please allow me to introduce myself I am a long term evangelical, genocidal, militant, apocalyptic Communist Internet activists. With the introductions out of the way, we can at least identify each other as “terrorists.” Ultimately of course I can assure you that with regards to “terror” on my part, I have “ultimately” no wish to simply“scare” the Anglo-American terrorist collaborators; I merely seek nothing less than their apocalyptic annihilation, so that they can happily fly up to their Capitalist Jesus in Capitalist Heaven and bother humanity no more.


You have since conceded the fact that this statement by you is erroneous and you can not prove ANY of the hijackers are still alive. Apparently there was some miss-communication in my post, I regret that. Be that as it may, my point stands. No one can prove any of the 19 hijackers were alive post 9-11.


OK Fair enough. The matter of the hijackers being alive is subject to some dispute and is inconclusive; thus, this may just end up as a "red herring ( distraction)" with regards to 911 being carried out by the world's leading terrorist organisation (The US government), so I will set this point aside; it is hardly the main issue with regards to the decades long history of U.S. State terrorist deception, genocide, black operations, narco-terrorism (narcotics trafficking), war and the manifestation of human evil in general; I generally discuss much wider topics that the specifics of some alleged Al Queda member (i.e. a US military asset, pawn, employee or whatever).


Playground antics do nothing to phase me. Keep em coming, you are only digging a deeper ditch. I will be forced to add (sic) to all your spelling errors. (there are many)

My spelling, grammar and punctuation suffer from my 70 wpm typing speed and the effects of alcohol and other substances; I also exist on numerous parts of the Internet and this forum only gets part of my attention; I am too busy to bother too much with form and tend to concentrate on content. I readily admit to not using a spell checker but it is not due to a lack of education; I am perfectly literate, however you don't appear to be able to comprehend statements which you are responding to; that is a lack of basic literacy skills; I don't suffer from that.

So, you listen only to conspiracy theorists? Rob Balsamo?

Well you can throw ad hominem attacks at Rob all day long and criticise his personal situation as much as you wish, but he is certainly indisputably a qualified pilot.

What exactly are your aviation qualifications?

Your obvious paranoia with the American Government means you are unable to accept any agency that agrees with the findings of the NIST, 911 Commission, or any other investigative entity that does not support the fantasy of the Truth Movement.

Paranoia is defined as a "false fear." I have already stated my position that the US state terrorists have a long history of provable deception, black military operations, false flag operations, state terrorism, narco-terrorism, war, genocide, Capitalist imperialism etc., and that any evidence presented by US state terrorist collaborators is thus to be treated as dubious "terrorist propaganda" in my judgement and not as "evidence;" this is only fair, just a judge would point out to a jury that a witness in a court who is a known collaborator with an organisation with a similar history of deception, torture, murder, genocide, drugs trafficking etc., would direct the jury to consider such testimony as unreliable.


Since you brought up the Pentagon, and the "tiny" hole, simple math will show you that the hole was not too small.

What exactly are you qualifications in mathematics, physics and structural engineering?

You posted a picture from Purdue's Computing Research Institute. Have you examined this information, or did you hand wave it away? It was accepted by many REAL Engineering firms and considered factual. Not one... I repeat not ONE paper has been submitted for peer reviews that refutes the work of Mete A. Sozen, Sami A. Kilic and Christoph M. Hoffmann. In addition to the Purdue research, have you read the Pentagon Building Performance Report? If so, did you understand it? If not, do you contact a licensed engineer to answer the questions you had?

OK so before we go any further and you waste any more of my time, since you have already admitted that you are an overtly declared terrorist collaborator, rather than you just continuing to spout terrorist propaganda and the testimony of other state terrorist collaborators such as yourself, what exactly are your aeronautical, scientific, engineering, mathematical, physicist, (etc.) qualifications and areas of professional or academic expertise?

Lux

[ultima1]

[QUOTE=throatyogurt;1059031429]Why do you continue to spread this crap, Roger? You have been told time and time again that this is not reliable.
[\QUOTE]

Its not crap if you cannot prove it wrong.

If its not reliable why hasn't anyone been able to prove it wrong?

I will be waiting for your evidence to prove it wrong.

[dusan]

Well it proves that at leaast 2 of the hijackers that were supposed to be on the planes are alive.

i have tried to find evidence of hijackers still alive and sadly there is none
could be is supressed or not.
but ther isnt solid evidence of hijackers being still alive at the moment.
that doesnt mean that there is many questions unanswer relating all 911.
specially the pentagon, building 7 etc. etc

[ultima1]

i have tried to find evidence of hijackers still alive and sadly there is none
could be is supressed or not.
but ther isnt solid evidence of hijackers being still alive at the moment.
that doesnt mean that there is many questions unanswer relating all 911.
specially the pentagon, building 7 etc. etc

Well so far no one has been able to prove that the site i posted from is wrong.

[dusan]

Well so far no one has been able to prove that the site i posted from is wrong.

come on man, thats not solid argument.
im trying to find the truth just like you, but if we are gonna awake others we must be able to provide evidence. so far all we are spreading is doubt(that isnt bad) but we need to start investigating for real and be critical, not just belive believe believe. for example no one will make me believe that a plane hit the pentagon thats bs. see what i mean?

[ultima1]

come on man, thats not solid argument.
im trying to find the truth just like you, but if we are gonna awake others we must be able to provide evidence. ?

I have and can provide evidence, but its up to others if they want to accept and admit to the facts shown.

I can post photos with proper sources that would hold up in court, most other people on here cannot.

[dusan]

I have and can provide evidence, but its up to others if they want to accept and admit to the facts shown.

I can post photos with proper sources that would hold up in court, most other people on here cannot.

i would love to see a photo of mohammed atta or another hijacker after september 11.
please show me, im serious

[ultima1]

i would love to see a photo of mohammed atta or another hijacker after september 11.please show me, im serious

I do not have a photos of them, yet. But have other photos with proper sources.

[dusan]

I do not have a photos of them, yet. But have other photos with proper sources.

i dont understand, what i asking is for evidence that shows one or more of the hijackers are still alive.

i understand if you cnt provide evidence, i have looked myself and failed to find solid evidence about this issue

[ultima1]

i dont understand, what i asking is for evidence that shows one or more of the hijackers are still alive.

Yes and so far i have the evidence from the site i posted along with other facts like the all the hijackers DNA not recovered.

[dusan]

Yes and so far i have the evidence from the site i posted along with other facts like the all the hijackers DNA not recovered.

thats interesting because fbi claim they have dna of the hijackers(im sure its a lie)

[ultima1]

thats interesting because fbi claim they have dna of the hijackers(im sure its a lie)

Not all the hijackers have been identified with DNA.

Also if the fires were hot enough at the Pentagon to destroy what was left of the plane it would have also destroyed DNA evidence.

[dusan]

Not all the hijackers have been identified with DNA.

Also if the fires were hot enough at the Pentagon to destroy what was left of the plane it would have also destroyed DNA evidence.

yeah, i was reading too of the passports finded,
and in the 991myths website they explain that things like that can survive a explosion like that.
thats bs

[ultima1]

yeah, i was reading too of the passports finded,
and in the 991myths website they explain that things like that can survive a explosion like that.
thats bs

Might want to check out the following document and go to the DNA section.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13950025/FBI-Description-of-How-It-Identified-19-Alleged-911-Hijackers

[stannrodd]

There is no proof of hijackers ...

[throatyogurt]

OK so before we go any further and you waste any more of my time, since you have already admitted that you are an overtly declared terrorist collaborator, rather than you just continuing to spout terrorist propaganda and the testimony of other state terrorist collaborators such as yourself, what exactly are your aeronautical, scientific, engineering, mathematical, physicist, (etc.) qualifications and areas of professional or academic expertise?

Lux

This is the internet, sir. I will tell you that my credentials are not open for feeble minded paranoids. I can tell you that I work in two cities in the northeastern part of the US. One happens to be in NYC currently at Ground Zero. The facts I supply are well researched and backed up by the scientific community. You are obviously not interested in the science. As mentioned above, you listen only to those that speak against the facts surrounding 911. You perseverate the same old rhetoric regarding the big bad evil empire that is the United States and accuse anyone that agrees with the FACTS as terrorists.

So far, in our brief discussion you have failed to offer any evidence that supports your theory of an "inside job."

I'm not interested in your alleged false flag accusations or black operations. It's quite boring. If you would like to further our discussion, please stick to the facts. Cutting and pasting statements from NO PLANERS is a waste of time.

This particular thread is regarding the 19 hijackers who are in fact dead. You have all but conceded this. Going forward, I will join in other threads and happily discuss the facts in those threads as I choose.

[ultima1]

I'm not interested in your alleged false flag accusations or black operations.

They are not alleged, the government has admitted to the Gulf of Token as being a false flag operation. So the government does do false flag operations.

This particular thread is regarding the 19 hijackers who are in fact dead.

There is no DNA evidence that all the hijackers are dead.

[throatyogurt]

Its not crap if you cannot prove it wrong.

If its not reliable why hasn't anyone been able to prove it wrong?

I will be waiting for your evidence to prove it wrong.

Argumentum ad ignorantiam! Or Argument from ignorance. Look it up Einstein! The website clearly states that you are to VERIFY any information on their site. Again. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO VERIFY THE INFORMATION??!

[ultima1]

The website clearly states that you are to VERIFY any information on their site. Again. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO VERIFY THE INFORMATION??!

The information has been verified by the fact of NO DNA EVIDENCE to show that all the hijackers are dead.

[coco]

My apologies Luciferhorus, I was mistaken posting the exit hole.

[throatyogurt]

The information has been verified by the fact of NO DNA EVIDENCE to show that all the hijackers are dead.

Are you that obtuse? The family's of the hijackers refused to cooperate with the government by supplying DNA samples. Some was found in rental cars, motel rooms, etc. Process of elimination was done in other areas.

You are the one making the outlandish claims of their survival. You are the one that has to prove it! Now stop posturing, Mr. Mall Cop and show us what you got!

[ultima1]

Are you that obtuse? The family's of the hijackers refused to cooperate with the government by supplying DNA samples.

So you agree that there is no DNA evidence to prove all the hijackers are dead.

[throatyogurt]

So you agree that there is no DNA evidence to prove all the hijackers are dead.

Roger, how many people are still missing from the WTC Towers? Since we don't have their DNA, does this mean they are not dead?

[ultima1]

Roger, how many people are still missing from the WTC Towers? Since we don't have their DNA, does this mean they are not dead?

We are talking about hijackers. Please answer up.

You do know that NIST had to come up with new DNA testing just for 9/11 but it was not ready untill 2002.

[throatyogurt]

We are talking about hijackers. Please answer up.

You do know that NIST had to come up with new DNA testing just for 9/11 but it was not ready untill 2002.

I did answer you. You are stating that since not all hijackers DNA has been found, this must mean that they are alive.

I am asking you now, Roger; Where are the people that were in the towers during the collapse that have not been identified by DNA?

[ultima1]

I did answer you. You are stating that since not all hijackers DNA has been found, this must mean that they are alive.

Yes, it does. Thanks for admititng to that.

I am asking you now, Roger; Where are the people that were in the towers during the collapse that have not been identified by DNA?

Ask the people who was supposed to have done the DNA testing.

[throatyogurt]

Yes, it does. Thanks for admititng to that.

Oh i didn't admit that. You just made a complete ass out of yourself by doing so. You are once again in the logical fallacy of argument from ignorance. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.



Ask the people who was supposed to have done the DNA testing.

What is your opinion as to the status of those still missing from the WTC?

[ultima1]

Oh i didn't admit that. You just made a complete ass out of yourself by doing so. You are once again in the logical fallacy of argument from ignorance. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Sorry you get so upset because you cannot post evidence to debate what i post.

In court if you canot show evidence it is evidence that you cannot show evidence.

[quote]What is your opinion as to the status of those still missing from the WTC?

They are dead, we just do not know how, when and where since we do not have all the evidence.

[throatyogurt]

Sorry you get so upset because you cannot post evidence to debate what i post.

In court if you canot show evidence it is evidence that you cannot show evidence.

You are asking me to prove a negative which is a logical fallacy. I have asked you to prove that they are alive. You have FAILED to do so. How much clearer does it have to be drawn out for you? Are you that stupid?



They are dead, we just do not know how, when and where since we do not have all the evidence.

What makes you think that they are dead?

[ultima1]

You are asking me to prove a negative which is a logical fallacy.

No i am asking you to show evidence of what you believe or that supports the officail story.

What makes you think that they are dead?

We have no reports of them being alive, unlike the hijackers.

[throatyogurt]

No i am asking you to show evidence of what you believe or that supports the officail story.

Are you smoking crack? I asked you for evidence of any of them being alive. You once again posted that website that clearly asks that you verify their information.

Then, like the idiot you are, said that you verified it by not having DNA.

[ultima1]

. Then, like the idiot you are, said that you verified it by not having DNA.

Its not just the DNA and websites its the combination of facts of the websites, reports and DNA.

Is that so hard to understand?

When are you going to post any evidence to suport what you believe or that supports the official story ???

[throatyogurt]

When are you going to post any evidence to suport what you believe or that supports the official story ???

Roger... You think some of the hijackers are alive. You need to back this up. Please post evidence to support your claim.

Understand?

[lightgiver]

NO effing Plane hit the pentagon

I know its hard for some to believe that their governments are corrupt criminals,but these are the FACTS

( CCTV Footage)

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Hey anyone seen the left over plane parts anywhere?

Where they get stored for forensic analysis like the steel that got shipped off rather rapidly :rolleyes:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentagon/video_fraud.htm

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/3286/pcamframe5.jpg (http://img808.imageshack.us/i/pcamframe5.jpg/)

check the date

Contracts totaling $31,100,000 were finalized with McShain and the other contractors on September 11, 1941, and ground was broken for the Pentagon the same day.


Science and Technology - PENTAGON MISSILE STRIKE ON 911: Americans Fooled Again...:

http://sci-tech.ws/CRYRkZNOUJaVU1zX0k_/CRYeNoLcPULcXT391Pw9QwO9vRxVQgOCfL0dlUAilgaGlopOOa mFmUmJ,YVK7jl5,ekpig4pidm5unp6QEA2csQ7Q__.html

So if NO plane hit the pentagon

where are the passengers and hi jackers?

911 is a Joke and not a well thought out one at that

[throatyogurt]

NO effing Plane hit the pentagon



Dude, did you happen to read the "effing" topic?

[lightgiver]

Dude, did you happen to read the "effing" topic?

Yes

911 was an inside job

TPTB are covering up the facts DUDE

another example WTC 7

buildings on fire do not collapse like WTC 7 collapsed

wtc 7 collapse - YouTube

1 effing video posted

9-11 video THE INEXPLICABLE COLLAPSE OF WTC7:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3664073116607499063#

another effing video posted


come on


At the time of the September 11, 2001 attacks, Salomon Smith Barney was by far the largest tenant in 7 World Trade Center, occupying 1,202,900 sq ft (111,750 m²) (64 percent of the building) which included floors 28–45. Other major tenants included ITT Hartford Insurance Group (122,590 sq ft/11,400 m²), American Express Bank International (106,117 sq ft/9,900 m²), Standard Chartered Bank (111,398 sq ft/10,350 m²), and the Securities and Exchange Commission (106,117 sq ft/9,850 m²). Smaller tenants included the Internal Revenue Service Regional Council (90,430 sq ft/8,400 m²) and the United States Secret Service (85,343 sq ft/7,900 m²). The smallest tenants included the New York City Office of Emergency Management,[25] National Association of Insurance Commissioners, Federal Home Loan Bank, First State Management Group Inc., Provident Financial Management, and the Immigration and Naturalization Service. The Department of Defense (DOD) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) shared the 25th floor with the IRS. Floors 46–47 were mechanical floors, as were the bottom six floors and part of the seventh floor.

[dusan]

So if NO plane hit the pentagon

where are the passengers and hi jackers?

911 is a Joke and not a well thought out one at that


good point!

media asked mohammed atta's father where was his son and he answered "ask the mossad"

http://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2428

[lightgiver]

good point!

media asked mohammed atta's father where was his son and he answered "ask the mossad"

http://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2428

Rockefeller Reveals 9/11 FRAUD to Aaron Russo

Rockefeller Reveals 9/11 FRAUD to Aaron Russo - YouTube

[throatyogurt]

good point!

media asked mohammed atta's father where was his son and he answered "ask the mossad"

http://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2428

Did you happen to read that article? Atta Sr. is in rough shape and unable to differentiate between fact and fiction. If he wasn't such a hard nosed anti-semite, I would almost feel sorry for the guy.

While you're at it, try reading this:

CAIRO, Egypt (CNN) -- The father of one of the hijackers who commandeered the first plane that crashed into the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, praised the recent terror attacks in London and said many more would follow.

Speaking to CNN producer Ayman Mohyeldin Tuesday in his apartment in the upper-middle-class Cairo suburb of Giza, Mohamed el-Amir said he would like to see more attacks like the July 7 bombings of three London subway trains and a bus that killed 52 people, plus the four bombers.

Displayed prominently in the apartment were pictures of el-Amir's son, Mohamed Atta, the man who is believed to have piloted American Airlines Flight 11 into the north tower of the World Trade Center as part of the attacks on the United States.

El-Amir said the attacks in the United States and the July 7 attacks in London were the beginning of what would be a 50-year religious war, in which there would be many more fighters like his son.




http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/07/19/atta.father.terror/index.html

[dusan]

Did you happen to read that article? Atta Sr. is in rough shape and unable to differentiate between fact and fiction. If he wasn't such a hard nosed anti-semite, I would almost feel sorry for the guy.

While you're at it, try reading this:



http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/07/19/atta.father.terror/index.html

i read both articles
and the one i post shows a father convince that his son wasnt involve, plus it was a prime source interview. i do agree with him that israel and usa are both involve in 911
while the another has vague quotes. quoting a sentence of 4 words tops
if you ask me i trust more in a local(egypt) interview than a cnn article

[policestate]

Did you happen to read that article? Atta Sr. is in rough shape and unable to differentiate between fact and fiction. If he wasn't such a hard nosed anti-semite, I would almost feel sorry for the guy.

While you're at it, try reading this:



http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/07/19/atta.father.terror/index.html

what a negative most vile piece of garbage article.

and you would feel sorry for a man like that?

[dusan]

what a negative most vile piece of garbage article.

and you would feel sorry for a man like that?

i think we are missing the point here.
the point was to try to provide some evidence that hijackers were alive after 911. if you read the article from the egypt magazine you can understand that the father is talking the same thing as we do. now i dont know that guy im not saying i like him or dislike him or he is anisemte or not. im just pointing out that he as a father strongly believes that his son were alive after 911 and he tells why he thinks at. independently that he is a very obtuse man.

[ultima1]

Roger... You think some of the hijackers are alive. You need to back this up. Please post evidence to support your claim.

I have posted the evidence, what can't you accept and admit to it ???

1. Website claims 2 hijackers are alive, no one has debated this information.

2. No DNA evidence that all the hijackers are dead, no one has debated this information.

3. Reports have stated that the hijckers used fake and phoney IDs, no one has debated this information.

[hadabusa]

Really? You can prove this? Please, start by showing me the proof here... THEN make sure you get this amazing information to the media so they can report it. I predict a Pulitzer for you, amazing Lucifer!

hi, magician-apprentice.

since were talking about evidence/proof, lets look at how these have been etablished.

Popular Mechanics Debunked with EASE! - YouTube


can you answer whats been left unanswered here?


LH, nice contributions, i see govt loyalists running into traps with "caution,trap" signs.



:)

[hadabusa]

There is no proof of hijackers ...

oh, itd be alot easier to research if bit less evidence were classified.

[hadabusa]

Are you that obtuse? The family's of the hijackers refused to cooperate with the government by supplying DNA samples. Some was found in rental cars, motel rooms, etc. Process of elimination was done in other areas.

You are the one making the outlandish claims of their survival. You are the one that has to prove it! Now stop posturing, Mr. Mall Cop and show us what you got!

isnt that too unfortunate?


dna in 1000degree rubble, plane pulverizied, and you believe it.

selective scepticism?

[hadabusa]

Roger, how many people are still missing from the WTC Towers? Since we don't have their DNA, does this mean they are not dead?

pathetic strawman argumentation.

borderline unpatriotic.

[ultima1]

Might want to check out this document, go to the section of DNA and see what it states about the WTC.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13950025/FBI-Description-of-How-It-Identified-19-Alleged-911-Hijackers

[throatyogurt]

what a negative most vile piece of garbage article.

and you would feel sorry for a man like that?

Did you bother to read what I said? "almost"... Any family that has to endure the loss of a child struggles with great pain. Reading the more recent CNN article, I hope the man dies a slow painful death and then meets his scum bag son in hell!

[throatyogurt]

pathetic strawman argumentation.

borderline unpatriotic.

You are obviously missing the point here hadabusa. Try reading the exchange I have been having with Ultima1 and try to keep up.

[ultima1]

You are obviously missing the point here hadabusa. Try reading the exchange I have been having with Ultima1 and try to keep up.

Might want to check out this document, go to the section of DNA and see what it states about the WTC.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13950025/F...-911-Hijackers

[throatyogurt]

Might want to check out this document, go to the section of DNA and see what it states about the WTC.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13950025/FBI-Description-of-How-It-Identified-19-Alleged-911-Hijackers

I have read the PENTTBOM, Roger. Again, you have failed in proving ANY of the hijackers still alive.

A website states 2 of them are alive WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE OF THE CLAIMS MADE!! ... .proves NOTHING!

Not being able to obtain proper DNA comparisons - PROVES NOTHING!

You just ride this merry-go-round of stupid, Roger.

[ultima1]

You just ride this merry-go-round of stupid, Roger.

Well since you cannot prove me wrong or post anything to debate me i think that makes you the stupid one.

Your either too immature or too stupid to accept and admit to evidence shown, which is it ???

[throatyogurt]

can you answer whats been left unanswered here?


All i head to hear was this douche bag ranting about some of the hijackers being alive..obviously from early reports where some popular names were confused. Really, are you Ultima1 dumb?

[throatyogurt]

Well since you cannot prove me wrong or post anything to debate me i think that makes you the stupid one.

Your either too immature or too stupid to accept and admit to evidence shown, which is it ???

Roger...remove the extra chromosome God gave you and listen...okay?

THE WEBSITE YOU LIST DOES NOT OFFER ANY EVIDENCE OF THE HIJACKERS EXISTENCE! GET IT.... ???

Read my post several pages ago. Do you understand "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"?

If you don't... figure it out!

[ultima1]

THE WEBSITE YOU LIST DOES NOT OFFER ANY EVIDENCE OF THE HIJACKERS EXISTENCE! GET IT.... ???!

Thanks for showing that you have to resorrt to name calling since you cannot debate me like an adult with facts and evidence.

There is more evidence of some of the hijackers being alive then dead.

Now we will haveto see if the mods are not biased and talk to them about banning you for the attacks and insults.

[lightgiver]

I have posted the evidence, what can't you accept and admit to it ???

1. Website claims 2 hijackers are alive, no one has debated this information.

2. No DNA evidence that all the hijackers are dead, no one has debated this information.

3. Reports have stated that the hijckers used fake and phoney IDs, no one has debated this information.


Like the Unscathed Hijacker Passport Found Near Ground Zero, Now Comes Flight 77 Passenger's Perfectly Intact ID Card Found at Pentagon Meltdown

One day after 9/11 the perfectly unscathed passport of Satam Al Suqami, one of the alleged 19 hijackers, was found several blocks from Ground Zero, even though its next to impossible such a flimsy item escaped the towering inferno unblemished.


Capt. Jim Ingledue, shift safety officer of the Virginia Beach Fire Dept, said Monday he found amidst the rubble at the Pentagon, two days after 9/11, the perfectly clean and unblemished California ID card of Suzanne Calley, 42, one of the alleged victims killed aboard Flight 77.

"I remember thinking it was highly unusual and strange to find a perfectly intact ID card amidst all that devastation," said Capt. Ingledue, a Pentagon first responder who arrived two days after 9/11 and spent a total of seven days in search and rescue.



But even though the passport and the ID card had a snow ball's chance in hell of surviving the WTC and Pentagon meltdown, ABC News and the Associated Press quickly jumped on the story, with accounts running on September 12 and 16 of 2001, telling America essentially the passport discovery was proof positive Osama bin Laden's gang outfoxed the mighty U.S. military.

In fact, whether the FBI/CIA actually planted the evidence never has been thoroughly questioned or investigated by the state sponsored press, perpetuating even further the incredible lies surfacing about the credulity of the official 9/11 story.



Besides numerous questions surrounding the implausibility of a large airliner making such a small hole on impact, as measured by independent researchers, the entire flight path of Flight 77 is seriously questioned, as it was allowed to meander in highly protected airspace for more than 40 minutes without being detected or picked up by fighter jets.



"The AFIP claims that the only "passenger" body that they were not able to identify is the toddler, Dana Falkenberg, whose parents and young sister are on the list of those identified. The satanic masterminds behind this caper may be feeling pretty smug about the perfect crime, but they have left a raft of clues tying these unfortunates together."
And although Calley was listed as one of the people killed in the crash and her paper ID was supposedly found in the rubble in tact, consider the fact the FBI never provided DNA profiles of the hijackers to medical examiners for identification because the official position was that "there was a giant fireball on impact that not only destroyed the airplane, but actually vaporized the metal."

So if there was a giant fireball how did the paper ID survive when metal was vaporized?


http://www.rense.com/general68/pass.htm

Missing Trillions

Rumsfeld Buries Admission of Missing 2+ Trillion Dollars in 9/10/01 Press Conference

On September 10, 2001, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld held a press conference to disclose that over $2,000,000,000,000 in Pentagon funds could not be accounted for. Rumsfeld stated: "According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions." According to a report by the Inspector General, the Pentagon cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends.

Such a disclosure normally might have sparked a huge scandal. However, the commencement of the attack on New York City and Washington in the morning would assure that the story remained buried. To the trillions already missing from the coffers, an obedient Congress terrorized by anthrax attacks would add billions more in appropriations to fight the "War on Terror."

The Comptroller of the Pentagon at the time of the attack was Dov Zakheim, who was appointed in May of 2001. Before becoming the Pentagon's money-manager, he was an executive at System Planning Corporation, a defense contractor specializing in electronic warfare technologies including remote-controlled aircraft systems. Zakheim is a member of the Project for a New American Century and participated in the creation of its 2000 position paper Rebuilding America's Defenses which called for "a New Pearl Harbor."

Estimates of the sums of money missing vary wildly. A 2003 report put the amount missing at "more than a trillion dollars."

[ultima1]

THE WEBSITE YOU LIST DOES NOT OFFER ANY EVIDENCE OF THE HIJACKERS EXISTENCE! GET IT.... ???!

Sorry i will use small steps.

1. The website stated hijackers are alive. NOT DEBATED WITH EVIDENCE.

2. No DNA evidence that all hijackers are dead from miltiple sites. NOT DEBATED WITH EVIDENCE.

Put this information together with other information and you get resonable doubt that all the hijackers are dead.

[throatyogurt]

Sorry i will use small steps.



You should!

Sorry i will use small steps.

1. The website stated hijackers are alive. NOT DEBATED WITH EVIDENCE.



Roger, lets once again look at your favorite website that you love you spread across the conspiracy websites.

Tracking the Threat is the name of the website. In it, we will use one of the two terrorists that you posted about back on page 1. Majed Moqed

http://www.trackingthethreat.com/zsearch/ent.jsp?entId=1078

On this page you pointed out that his "Entity Status" is listed as "Alive." That's it! This alone is not evidence at all.

For each page on this site listing an "Entity", you will find that there are (6) categories supporting the "status." Let's go through each of them for Majed Moqed. Okay? I am quoting directly from the website and can be confirmed by clicking on the link above.

1. Brief:

Brief
The Brief field contains basic narrative or documentary information about the entity. Wherever possible, attribution to the original source is provided.


Listed as a passenger in seat 12A.
One of five hijackers who worked out at a Gold's Gym in Greenbelt, Md., for a few days earlier this month. The FBI has obtained the phone records from his mobile phone.
He was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the indictment against Zacarias Moussaoui.

So, this is it? Someone alleges that he worked out at a Gold's Gym? What month are they talking about? What is "this month?" There are no dates to compare it to!


Relationships


Relationships
This section lists each relationship that the entity participates in. Click on either entity to navigate to that entity's information page, or click on the relationship type to view information about the relationship and source.

Mohamed Atta Associate of Majed Moqed
Majed Moqed Member of Gold's Gym, Greenbelt MD
Majed Moqed Participated in American Airlines Flight 77

So this site lists him as alive, yet also states that he participated in AA Flight 77 and that he was an associate of Mohamed Atta.

Notes


Notes

Notes are text records associated with the entity. Each entity may have one or more notes that contains things like news reports, biographical data, etc.

Public Notes:

Listed as a passenger in seat 12A.
One of five hijackers who worked out at a Gold's Gym in Greenbelt, Md., for a few days earlier this month. The FBI has obtained the phone records from his mobile phone.
He was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the indictment against Zacarias Moussaoui.

Documents


Documents

Each entity can have multiple documents that consist of Word documents, PDF files, video, audio, etc. Opening Documents from this page will typically open the application associated with the document type.

The document here is a link to a 20 page PDF Document called: " Hani's Tale: Profile of A Terrorist" Written by Micheal Taarnby: Center Of Cultural Research, Aarhs, Denmark.

I read the 20 page document and found a couple references regarding Majed Moqed. The document in no way supports any of the 19 hijackers of being alive.


Metadata



Metadata
Metadata provides additional data about an entity. The types of metadata available often vary by entity type. For example, a person-type entity will typically have different metadata types than a location-type entity.

Nothing listed but his name and date of entry.

Geospatial View



Geospatial View
This view shows the geographical disposition of the current entity, and any entities linked to it within one degree of separation. Note that not all entities have location data--such entities are not shown on the map.

See the Google Map on the link provided.

So, that's it. That is Majed Moqed's Tracking The Threat page. There is nothing on it that suggests that he is alive besides what is stated next to the status.

What is a fact is that Majed was caught on video on 9/11 at the Dulles Security check point:

9/11 hijackers at Dulles Airport - YouTube


9/11 hijackers at Dulles Airport - YouTube

He is also seen on an ATM camera with Flight 77 Pilot Hani Hanjor.

http://www.the7thfire.com/images/atta_atm.jpg

http://www.the7thfire.com/images/atta_atm.jpg


So, Roger I ask that you present some real evidence to support your claim.

[ultima1]

So, Roger I ask that you present some real evidence to support your claim.

Sorry but i have provided evidence that you have not beenm able to debate that show reasonable doubt that all the hijaclers are dead.

1. Reports from several sources state some hijackers are alive.

2. Due to lack of DNA all hiajckers are not dead.

CAN YOU PROVE ANY OF THESE STATEMENTS WRONG WITH EVIDENCE ??

[ultima1]

What is a fact is that Majed was caught on video on 9/11 at the Dulles Security check point:

So was he caught on camera getting on the plane ???

Was any hijacker caught on camera getting on the planes ???

[throatyogurt]

1. Reports from several sources state some hijackers are alive.



Roger... you wanted to take this slow, remember?

Let's take step one.

Tracking the Threat...It was shown to you that it offers ZERO evidence to your claim that the hijackers are alive.

Can be both agree on that?

[throatyogurt]

and zero evidence that there were any hi jackers,

and where is the proof they are dead


The 9/11 hijackers are alive

Mar 10, 2010 with the description: According to the chief of Japans Democratic Party who says that the 9/11 hijackers are alive and that 9/11 was a complete hoax. Dr. David Ray Griffin is a professor and author who wrote The New Pearl Harbor Revisited and he says that he agrees; the World Trade Center was a hoax. .




Dude.... the evidence is there. If you are unaware of the MASSIVE amounts of evidence, you know nothing about 9/11.

So, a Japanese guy and a Biblical Theologian claim that they are alive... it must be so?


And you truthers call US sheep. What a pathetic joke.

[throatyogurt]

So what are you doing on this forum if you do not believe 911 was an inside job

your time is wasted



I'm into Reptilian People!! ;)

Now, why are you here? You, like Ultima! are a lot of bark. When you gonna bite? I have asked you to present evidence to show any of the 19 hijackers are alive. So far, nada!

Buck up cowboy... show me what you got!

[throatyogurt]

Dude, you are the one that created this thread...are you not? YOU need to back up your claim with evidence. As stated several times, you got nothing at all. There is an abundance of evidence proving that they are dead.

Are you going to provide spme evidence or what?

[lightgiver]

Dude, you are the one that created this thread...are you not? YOU need to back up your claim with evidence. As stated several times, you got nothing at all. There is an abundance of evidence proving that they are dead.

Are you going to provide spme evidence or what?

The evidence is right under your nose

There is tons of evidence,but none coming from where it should be :rolleyes: dude

where is your evidence of these so called dead hi jackers??


BTW could you direct me to the Plane wreckage left over dept of forensic anal asis


Abdul Aziz Al-Omari (Flight 11) (Trained Pilot)

The identities of two men with the same name have been cobbled together to create an FBI "terrorist". Both are Alive!

The first has the same name, the same birth date as one of the FBI "terrorists" but has no idea how to fly.

The second has the name Abdul Rahman Al-Omari and a different birth date, but is the person pictured by the FBI and is a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines.

Here are some quotes from the world's media concerning them.

Omari Number 1

"A Saudi man has reported to authorities that he is the real Abdul Aziz Al-Omari, and claims his passport was stolen in 1995 while he studied electrical engineering at the University of Denver. Al-Omari says he informed police of the theft." - ABCNews

"I couldn't believe it when the FBI put me on their list. They gave my name and my date of birth, but I am not a suicide bomber. I am here. I am alive. I have no idea how to fly a plane. I had nothing to do with this." - Telegraph 23rd September 2001

"The name (listed by the FBI) is my name and the birth date is the same as mine, but I am not the one who bombed the World Trade Center in New York," Abdul Aziz Al-Omari told the London-based Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper.

"Al-Omari has since been found in Saudi Arabia and is apparently cleared in the case" - New York Times

"Saudi Embassy officials in Washington have challenged his identity. They say a Saudi electrical engineer named Abdul Aziz Al-Omari had his passport and other papers stolen in 1996 in Denver when he was a student and reported the theft to police there at the time." - BBC

"Abdel Aziz Al-Omari and Saïd Hussein Gharamallah Al-Ghamdi, are well in life, the first in Saudi Arabia and the second in Tunisia for nine months." - Wal Fadjri 21st September 2001 (translate)

Omari Number 2

Mr. Al-Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines, walked into the US embassy in Jeddah to demand why he was being reported as a dead hijacker in the American media.

"Abdul Aziz Al-Omari is a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines" - BBC 23rd September 2001

"A pilot with Saudi Airlines, was astonished to find himself accused of hijacking ­ as well as being dead ­ and has visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation." - Independent 17th September 2001

This Al-Omari lives with his wife and four children in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.


Saeed Al-Ghamdi (Flight 93) (Trained Pilot)

"Saeed Al-Ghamdi is one of three hijackers that US officials have said are linked to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network." - BBC

No BBC! Mr. Al-Ghamdi is still alive and well and at his job for Tunis Air.

"I was completely shocked. For the past 10 months I have been based in Tunis with 22 other pilots learning to fly an Airbus 320. The FBI provided no evidence of my presumed involvement in the attacks." - Telegraph 23rd September 2001

"Asharq Al Awsat newspaper, a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Al-Ghamdi." - BBC 23rd September 2001

"Abdel Aziz Al-Omari and Saïd Hussein Gharamallah Al-Ghamdi, are well in life, the first in Saudi Arabia and the second in Tunisia for nine months." - Wal Fadjri 21st September 2001 (translate)

"..... not dead and had nothing to do with the heinous terror attacks in New York and Washington." - Saudi embassy


Waleed Al-Shehri (Flight 11) (Trained Pilot)

"A sixth person on the FBI's list, Saudi national Waleed Al-Shehri, is living in Casablanca, according to an official with the Royal Air Moroc, the Moroccan commercial airline. According to the unnamed official, Al-Shehri lived in Dayton Beach, Fla., where he took flight training at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Now he works for a Moroccan airline." On Sept. 22, Associated Press reported that Alshehri had spoken to the U.S. embassy in Morocco.

"His photograph was released by the FBI, and has been shown in newspapers and on television around the world. That same Mr Al-Shehri has turned up in Morocco, proving clearly that he was not a member of the suicide attack." - Daily Trust 24th September 2001.

"He was reported to have been in Hollywood, Florida, for a month earlier this year but his father, Ahmed, said that Waleed was alive and well and living in Morocco." - Telegraph

"Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well." - BBC 23rd September 2001.


Ahmed Al-Nami (Flight 93)

"I'm still alive, as you can see. I was shocked to see my name mentioned by the American Justice Department. I had never even heard of Pennsylvania where the plane I was supposed to have hijacked." He had never lost his passport and found it "very worrying" that his identity appeared to have been "stolen" and published by the FBI without any checks. The FBI had said his "possible residence" was Delray Beach in Florida." - Telegraph 23rd September 2001


Salem Al-Hazmi (Flight 77)

"Mr Al-Hamzi is 26 and had just returned to work at a petrochemical complex in the industrial eastern city of Yanbou after a holiday in Saudi Arabia when the hijackers struck. He was accused of hijacking the American Airlines Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon." - Telegraph 23rd September 2001.


Khalid Al-Mihdhar (Flight 77)

"Saudi officials at the embassy were unable to verify the whereabouts of the fifth accused hijacker, Khalid Al-Mihdhar. However, Arab newspapers say Al-Mihdhar is still alive.

"..... there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar may also be alive." - BBC 23rd September 2001


Others accused of being involved:

Ameer Bukhari

"Ameer Bukhari died in a small plane crash last year." - CNN Correction

Adnan Bukhari

"Adnan Bukhari is still in Florida" - CNN Correction

Amer Kamfar

".... that a suspect sought by the FBI, Amer Kamfar, was in fact an alive pilot in Arabia. " - Wal Fadjri 21st September 2001


The 9/11 hijackers are alive

. Dr. David Ray Griffin is a professor and author who wrote The New Pearl Harbor Revisited and he says that he agrees; the World Trade Center was a hoax. .

http://vodpod.com/watch/3207067-the-...-for-palestine

CrossTalk on 9/11: Whodunit... trackback from post: http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/RussiaTodayMarch 10, 2010 In this edition of CrossTalk host Peter Lavelle asks his guests why discussion of the events of 9/11 continue to attrack so much attention but is all but banned in the media mainstream. more about “CrossTalk on 9/11: Whodunit?“, posted with vodpod***Dr. David Ray Griffin on Yukihisa Fujita and 9/11 RTAmericaMarch 09

http://www.serendipity.li/wtc2.htm


Like the Unscathed Hijacker Passport Found Near Ground Zero, Now Comes Flight 77 Passenger's Perfectly Intact ID Card Found at Pentagon Meltdown

One day after 9/11 the perfectly unscathed passport of Satam Al Suqami, one of the alleged 19 hijackers, was found several blocks from Ground Zero, even though its next to impossible such a flimsy item escaped the towering inferno unblemished.


Capt. Jim Ingledue, shift safety officer of the Virginia Beach Fire Dept, said Monday he found amidst the rubble at the Pentagon, two days after 9/11, the perfectly clean and unblemished California ID card of Suzanne Calley, 42, one of the alleged victims killed aboard Flight 77.

"I remember thinking it was highly unusual and strange to find a perfectly intact ID card amidst all that devastation," said Capt. Ingledue, a Pentagon first responder who arrived two days after 9/11 and spent a total of seven days in search and rescue.



But even though the passport and the ID card had a snow ball's chance in hell of surviving the WTC and Pentagon meltdown, ABC News and the Associated Press quickly jumped on the story, with accounts running on September 12 and 16 of 2001, telling America essentially the passport discovery was proof positive Osama bin Laden's gang outfoxed the mighty U.S. military.

In fact, whether the FBI/CIA actually planted the evidence never has been thoroughly questioned or investigated by the state sponsored press, perpetuating even further the incredible lies surfacing about the credulity of the official 9/11 story.



Besides numerous questions surrounding the implausibility of a large airliner making such a small hole on impact, as measured by independent researchers, the entire flight path of Flight 77 is seriously questioned, as it was allowed to meander in highly protected airspace for more than 40 minutes without being detected or picked up by fighter jets.



"The AFIP claims that the only "passenger" body that they were not able to identify is the toddler, Dana Falkenberg, whose parents and young sister are on the list of those identified. The satanic masterminds behind this caper may be feeling pretty smug about the perfect crime, but they have left a raft of clues tying these unfortunates together."
And although Calley was listed as one of the people killed in the crash and her paper ID was supposedly found in the rubble in tact, consider the fact the FBI never provided DNA profiles of the hijackers to medical examiners for identification because the official position was that "there was a giant fireball on impact that not only destroyed the airplane, but actually vaporized the metal."

So if there was a giant fireball how did the paper ID survive when metal was vaporized?


http://www.rense.com/general68/pass.htm

Missing Trillions

Rumsfeld Buries Admission of Missing 2+ Trillion Dollars in 9/10/01 Press Conference

On September 10, 2001, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld held a press conference to disclose that over $2,000,000,000,000 in Pentagon funds could not be accounted for. Rumsfeld stated: "According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions." According to a report by the Inspector General, the Pentagon cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends.

Such a disclosure normally might have sparked a huge scandal. However, the commencement of the attack on New York City and Washington in the morning would assure that the story remained buried. To the trillions already missing from the coffers, an obedient Congress terrorized by anthrax attacks would add billions more in appropriations to fight the "War on Terror."

The Comptroller of the Pentagon at the time of the attack was Dov Zakheim, who was appointed in May of 2001. Before becoming the Pentagon's money-manager, he was an executive at System Planning Corporation, a defense contractor specializing in electronic warfare technologies including remote-controlled aircraft systems. Zakheim is a member of the Project for a New American Century and participated in the creation of its 2000 position paper Rebuilding America's Defenses which called for "a New Pearl Harbor."

Estimates of the sums of money missing vary wildly. A 2003 report put the amount missing at "more than a trillion dollars."

9/10/2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon

9/10/2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon - YouTube

Pentagon admits $2.3 Trillion missing and Rumsfeld calls it a matter of "life and death."


Bread and circus will keep most distracted............

[throatyogurt]

Dude... what you posted was comments from people with the same names as the hijackers from back in 2001. Really? This is all you got?

[lightgiver]

Dude... what you posted was comments from people with the same names as the hijackers from back in 2001. Really? This is all you got?

Where are your dead hi jackers and the left over plane wreckage?

Example.....................Pan Am Flight 103 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is plenty evidence 911 was an inside job along with numerous other false flag events

You are boring me now

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/locevd.htm

Lockerbie - new forensic tests suggest evidence was planted by the CIA

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2006/02/lockerbie-new-forensic-tests-suggest.html

41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11

Following in the footsteps of well over 1,000 scientists and other professional groups who have already gone on record questioning the official theory, more than 40 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency veterans have come forward to challenge the Government’s rendition of the September 11, 2001 attacks. Their behind-the-scenes knowledge and experience of sensitive and classified issues places them in a uniquely authoritative position. In this sense, their critical stance is all the more damning for the government. Conspicuously absent from the landscape are the mainstream media professionals, as they continue to provide cover for the government’s totally bankrupt theory and fail to report on landmark developments such as this.

Official Account of 9/11:“Terribly Flawed,” “Laced with Contradictions,” “a Joke,” “a Cover-up”

More than 40 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency veterans have severely criticized the official account of 9/11 and most have called for a new investigation. It is outrageous that most Americans are entirely unaware of their publicly stated concerns — a direct result of the refusal of national print and broadcast news organizations to cover this extremely important issue. There is no denying the credibility of these individuals or their loyalty to their country as demonstrated by their years of service collecting and analyzing information and planning and carrying out operations critical to the national security of the United States.

These 41 individuals formerly served in the U.S. State Department, the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Federal Aviation Administration, U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the branches of the U.S. Military. They are listed below by their branch of service. [To read their individual statements and full complementary information, see attached document "Counterterrorism Veterans"].

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160100.html

[throatyogurt]

Where are your dead hi jackers and the left over plane wreckage?



You're not getting off that easy Mr. Light. This is your thread that you started claiming that hijackers from 911 are still alive. Here we are on page 9 and all you are doing is the Truther Shuffle. Throwing out all this other regurgitated crap from 2005 that was debunked back then.

Put up or concede that you do not have evidence suggesting the survival of any of the 19 Hijackers.

[throatyogurt]

Show me 19 dead hi jackers or any DNA evidence



Many 9-11 "hijackers" are still alive.

That's the name of this thread... now back it up chump!

[lightgiver]

Many 9-11 "hijackers" are still alive.

That's the name of this thread... now back it up chump!

:)

Show me 19 dead hi jackers or any DNA evidence and any left over plane parts

The debate is over

Nothing has been de bunked

911 was an inside job


Has anyone ever seen pictures, links, articles, videos or other material of the 4 titanium engines that SHOULD have "survived" the impact....................LOL

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90861

[the shooter]

light giver,i wish i could pm you ,to tell you a story thats true ,and factual that iwill not post in an open foram ,that you are shure to find very interesting,pertaining to this subject

[ultima1]

Tracking the Threat...It was shown to you that it offers ZERO evidence to your claim that the hijackers are alive.

Its more evidence then you have that they are all dead.

I have posted several sites that show reasoanable doubt that some are dead, You have shown ZERO evidence that all the hijackers are dead.

Can we agree on that ???

[hadabusa]

All i head to hear was this douche bag ranting about some of the hijackers being alive..obviously from early reports where some popular names were confused. Really, are you Ultima1 dumb?

oh, come on.

will you adress the points or not?

if not, move on without insults, they dont help the debate.

[ultima1]

Throatyogurt,

I have posted several sites that show reasoanable doubt that some are dead.

You have shown ZERO evidence that all the hijackers are dead.

Can we agree on that ???

[throatyogurt]

Its more evidence then you have that they are all dead.

I have posted several sites that show reasoanable doubt that some are dead, You have shown ZERO evidence that all the hijackers are dead.

Can we agree on that ???

WHAT???? TrackingTheThreat shows NOTHING but support he was one of the hijackers. The stupid just burns. Please, point out what I missed. Really, I posted the entire page here and what did you do? Ignore it? Stop being such an imbecile. Tracking the threat offers NOTHING that supports the word "alive" printed. NOTHING... do you get it???

Saying someone is alive without proof is NOT evidence. So, NO I don't agree with anything you are saying. You have done nothing but further embarrassed yourself at yet another conspiracy theory website. How many have you banned from now Einstein? AboveTopSecret: at least 3 times, JREF Forum, at least once, EbaumsWorld, etc. You should find another hobby.

[lightgiver]

light giver,i wish i could pm you ,to tell you a story thats true ,and factual that iwill not post in an open foram ,that you are shure to find very interesting,pertaining to this subject

Why not post it,NO secrets here :)

If its personal just change the names

Ignore throaty yogurt

He is clueless

Most likely shilling for some elite scum

You see 911 there has been no trial,no investigation,no proof 19 hi hijackers carried out this event,zero ,zilch ,nothing

Hey where are all the passengers and pilots,what about flight 93 ........................absolute ZERO.............

No Plane here

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2451/93crash2.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/93crash2.jpg/)


but thousands of people including experts and eye witnesses who state it is was inside job,and from the evidence or lack of to be more precise, I would agree.

Anyone here ever seen the thousands who demonstrate and march on the MSM?

March On Ottawa 2008 for 9/11 Truth Tribute

March On Ottawa 2008 for 9/11 Truth Tribute - YouTube

Pilots for 9-11 Truth 1 of 5

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

BBC Reported Building 7 Collapse 20 Minutes Before It Fell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=FR&v=C7SwOT29gbc

Rockefeller Reveals 9/11 FRAUD to Aaron Russo

Rockefeller Reveals 9/11 FRAUD to Aaron Russo - YouTube

At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html?q=hijackers.html

NO PLANE HERE

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/742/noplanehere.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/i/noplanehere.jpg/)


Bread and circus will keep most slaves distracted

[masonicboom]

and what about this one?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm


i would love to see a video or a photo of one of the hijackers after 9 11
that i would call evidence.
i still believe 911 is an inside job, but im looking for solid evidence because i really want to show to a friend of mine so i can wake him up!

like the J.S. BACH song, "Sleepers Awake"

[ultima1]

WHAT???? TrackingTheThreat shows NOTHING but support he was one of the hijackers.

No it shows possibly someone with that name was one of the hijakers. Since the hijackers used fake and phony IDs.

The evidence i posted from several sites shows reasonable doubt that all the hijackers are dead.

Thanks again for showing that you cannot post eny evidence to debate me or show all the hijackers are dead.

[throatyogurt]

No it 'shows possibly someone with that name was one of the hijakers. Since the hijackers used fake and phony IDs.

The evidence i posted from several sites shows reasonable doubt that all the hijackers are dead.

Thanks again for showing that you cannot post eny evidence to debate me or show all the hijackers are dead.

Hey, NSA Secret Agent.... The hijacker I showed you from your site. Did HE use a phony ID? Was his Fake?

NO & NO.

You can't even spell hijackers. It's "A"ny not eny.

You are a pathetic failure with zero reading comprehension.

[frenat]

Of course apart from a Boeing Aircraft disappearing through a tiny hole, the hijackers would have had to crawl across the fuselage while the plane was in flight to get into the cockpit through the windows at the front of the craft, and hacked their way through aluminim or toughened glass with boxcutters, since the cockpit door allegedly remained closed for the entire flight.

9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/american_77_hijack_impossible.html

(PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled "FLT DECK DOOR", cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act..................according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed
Except for the fact that while the flight recorder did record the state of the cokpit door, there was NO SENSOR on the cockpit door on that plane so it would by default always read as closed.

[ultima1]

Did HE use a phony ID? Was his Fake? .

Well according to the official 9/11 commission report the hijackers did use fake and phony IDs to get into the country and get American IDs.

I am still waiting for any evidence to debate me and show all the hijackers are dead.

[truegroup]

Well according to the official 9/11 commission report the hijackers did use fake and phony IDs to get into the country and get American IDs.

I am still waiting for any evidence to debate me and show all the hijackers are dead.

You've shown NOTHING to prove they are alive.

[ultima1]

You've shown NOTHING to prove they are alive.

There is evidence to show reasonable doubt that they are all dead.

There is no evidence that show all the hijackers are dead.

I am still waiting for any evidence to debate me and show all the hijackers are dead.

[truegroup]

There is evidence to show reasonable doubt that they are all dead.
No there isn't.

There is no evidence that show all the hijackers are dead.

Maybe you should start using the word alleged in front of hijackers unless you are claiming they might have survived the crash?

The bodies were incinerated. How would you get evidence from collapsed buildings that have been ravaged by fires? They identified what they could.

I am still waiting for any evidence to debate me and show all the hijackers are dead.

I can't speak for others, but 'debating with you' is one of the most painful experiences on this forum. That phrase by you, alongside 'adult enough' and 'I've posted evidence and facts', and 'that would stand up in court', is becoming tedious and repetitive. You have well over a thousand posts in about 30 odd days a large majority of them having one of those phrases in.

[ultima1]

No there isn't.

Yes there is, there are sites that report hijackers are alive and there is no DNA evidnece that shows all the hiajckers are dead.

Maybe you should start using the word alleged in front of hijackers unless you are claiming they might have survived the crash?

Unless they were never on the plane to begin with, DDAAHH.

The bodies were incinerated. How would you get evidence from collapsed buildings that have been ravaged by fires? They identified what they could.

If we go by your logic, how did they get DNA evidence from passengers ???

How did they ID the passengers if they were incinerated ???

[ultima1]

Truegruop,

I call you out, post one site that proves all the hijackers are dead.

[truegroup]

Yes there is, there are sites that report hijackers are alive and there is no DNA evidnece that shows all the hiajckers are dead.
Your site proves nothing.

Unless they were never on the plane to begin with, DDAAHH.
Are you just dense? THAT was why I suggested the word alleged!

If we go by your logic, how did they get DNA evidence from passengers ???How did they ID the passengers if they were incinerated ???

Well, if you read 'my logic', I said they "identified what they could". With tons of rubble, incinerated bodies and materials, short of running dna tests on everything, it would be nigh on impossible to verify all bodies.

[truegroup]

Truegruop,

I call you out, post one site that proves all the hijackers are dead.

Well uliatem1 , as we just established the tons of rubble dust and incerated bodies make confirming dna of everybody on the plane as somewhat impossible. Since your site is NOT proof they are alive, I shall quote the same one you do!

Let the record show that the facts and evidence won't hold up in court and that you are not debating like an adult.

[ultima1]

Your site proves nothing.

The site along with lack of DNA evidence shows reasonable doubt

Well, if you read 'my logic', I said they "identified what they could". With tons of rubble, incinerated bodies and materials, short of running dna tests on everything, it would be nigh on impossible to verify all bodies.

But thats not true, they IDed almost all the passengers.

Strange considering that heat destroys DNA evidence.

Also strange since NIST did not come up with new DNA testing for the WTC uintill 2002.

AND STILL NO EVIDENCE THAT ALL THE HIJACKERS ARE DEAD.

[ultima1]

Well uliatem1 , as we just established the tons of rubble dust and incerated bodies make confirming dna of everybody on the plane as somewhat impossible.

But how did they ID all the passnegers ?

Since your site is NOT proof they are alive, I shall quote the same one you do!

But it along with no DNA evidence shows reasonable doubt they are dead.

Let the record show that the facts and evidence won't hold up in court.

Yes the evidence i have would hold up in court as reasonable doubt.

[lightgiver]

Hey, NSA Secret Agent.... The hijacker I showed you from your site. Did HE use a phony ID? Was his Fake?

NO & NO.

You can't even spell hijackers. It's "A"ny not eny.

You are a pathetic failure with zero reading comprehension.

Bush reading “My Pet Goat” whilst holding the book upside down during the September 11 attack,

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/83/bushbookupsidedown.jpg (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/bushbookupsidedown.jpg/)

G O A T is an anagram (well almost) of G A O T U meaning Great Architect of the Universe.


“Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?”
—George W. Bush

Here is one terrible LIAR

Bush Caught Lying About September 11th

Bush Caught Lying About September 11th - YouTube

No there isn't.

Maybe you should start using the word alleged in front of hijackers unless you are claiming they might have survived the crash?

The bodies were incinerated. How would you get evidence from collapsed buildings that have been ravaged by fires? They identified what they could.



passports and bandannas managed to escape the Inferno though :rolleyes:

Hey what about those titanium engines??


No Plane here

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2451/93crash2.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/93crash2.jpg/)

No Plane Here either,

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/742/noplanehere.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/i/noplanehere.jpg/)

I wonder where those planes,passengers, pilots and HI Jack ers could be????????????????????

GTFOH

[ultima1]

Bush reading “My Pet Goat” whilst holding the book upside down during the September 11 attack,

The problem with that scene is that if the Secret Service thought for one second we were under attack, the President would have been removed from there right away.

[lightgiver]

The problem with that scene is that if the Secret Service thought for one second we were under attack, the President would have been removed from there right away.

Exactly :)

another set up here,


John F Kennedy Assassination Secret Service Stand Down:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5770984395481454022#

Note the two Secret Service men walking on either side of the car would have been in an ideal position to protect Kennedy when the shooting started, but as this video shows, were ordered back into the Secret Service car following JFK's car. One agent clearly expresses confusion at this order.

[ultima1]

Exactly :)another set up here,

That or the President knew what was going on and was not worried.

[lightgiver]

That or the President knew what was going on and was not worried.

He wasn't worried about getting his head blown off,

Why ?

What about his brother,was he not worried either?

Following a brief victory speech delivered just past midnight on June 5 at The Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, Robert Francis "Bobby" Kennedy was assassinated by Sirhan Sirhan. Mortally wounded and unconscious, he survived for nearly 26 hours, dying early in the morning of June 6.

[ultima1]

He wasn't worried about getting his head blown off,

If he knew the attacks were comming, what they were going to hit and he knew he was not in danger where he was at.

[lightgiver]

If he knew the attacks were comming, what they were going to hit and he knew he was not in danger where he was at.

If he knew what was going on assassination wise do you think the security should have been tighter,but as you can see from the earlier footage the security was called off the motorcade,so obviously the Secret Service knew something he did not.


President John F Kennedy Secret Society Speech

President John F Kennedy Secret Society Speech version 2 - YouTube

That or the President knew what was going on and was not worried.


So there you are. Telling the truth can be extremely hazardous to your health. Not just in this age but in all ages. It’s interesting to note that in Dallas near Dealey Plaza where all this took place with the three intersections of the bypass forming a form of a triad – the trident, a pyramid you might say. Right near there the local freemasons have erected a monument to Kennedy’s death really and it’s up to you to decide if that was in memory of him or a boast to the high capstone boys you see to their total dominance because they built an obelisk inside a Rotunda and on top of the obelisk they have a stone form of the fire coming out of the end of the obelisk the fire and down below it there’s a pool, just like at Washington’s Memorial, there’s always the fire symbol–the phallic symbol. You see it’s fire, spirit, energy, the driving force and it’s reflected in the water, the female, the feminine and so they put the pool there too at Dallas to commemorate their victory, I suppose, showing their total domination of heaven and earth. That’s quite a boast for them to make but that is the meaning behind the phallic symbol towering over its reflection in the water. The spirit and the earth, you see, heaven and earth.



It’s up to you to decide whether you can continue pretending to live under an elected government that’s supposed to serve you, or if you demand total openness as Kennedy was stating there from the news publishers association; because if you cannot have openness you’ll be run by secrecy and secrecy never changes its direction. It never changes it grasp for power. It’s totalitarian instinct. We cannot live under secrecy any longer. If we think we can go along to get along, we’re goners.



We’ve got to come out now and demand to know all those officials who belong to "societies with secrets" as they will phrase it themselves and to know what they’ve sworn oaths to and we’ve got to find out whose being tapped out of those lower associations brought into the side lodges and brought up to the higher groups, because those that join the club to run the whole world for their own offspring forever as far as they’re concerned, they have to be exposed.

We have no choice in this matter. You can see how the world is going. We’re going into a scientific dictatorship and the science departments. All these huge international organizations are part of the control system. They’re not separate. They’re all one and we don’t have long to do this. We have to get it all out and demand openness now.

WE CANNOT LIVE UNDER SECRECY.

Secrecy by its very nature bodes ill to those who are out of the know.

http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/JFK_Video_Speech.html

[throatyogurt]

Bush reading “My Pet Goat” whilst holding the book upside down during the September 11 attack,




Moving the goal posts is your only trait you are consistent with. Although you are not very good at it.

The picture you posted is further proof that you are absolutely clueless and unable to do a bit of research.

Lets look at just how wrong you are:

1. look at the name of the book: America : A Patriotic Primer

Amazon.com: America : A Patriotic Primer (9780689851926): Lynne Cheney, Robin Preiss Glasser: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MHqu%2BCR3L.@@AMEPARAM@@51MHqu%2BCR3L

2. if you bothered to find the real source you would have found that the book was not upside down.
http://www.kissmybigbluebutt.com/rickreadingperry.jpg

3. Not only is it not upside down, not only is it NOT My Pet Goat... you got the wrong freakin School AND Date!

He was reading it at the George Sanchez Charter School in Texas with the Governor Rick Perry during the summer of 2002.

Now, truther, do you see how very wrong you are?

[kooskoets]

Moving the goal posts....


oh...find another cliche...please.

[throatyogurt]

oh...find another cliche...please.

Cliche? Really? Raising the bar better?

Is that all you got out of my post? Typical truther. Try addressing the facts.

[ultima1]

Cliche? Really? Raising the bar better?

Is that all you got out of my post? Typical truther. Try addressing the facts.

Try addressing the facts.

You should pratice what you preach !!!!!

[truegroup]

Try addressing the facts.

You should pratice what you preach !!!!!

Read that last post by him, and tell me how that is not practising what he preaches. Concise accurate and to the point, with references.

UNLIKE YOU.

[ultima1]

Read that last post by him, and tell me how that is not practising what he preaches. Concise accurate and to the point, with references.

UNLIKE YOU.

I know, but everyone on here needs to quit talking about others post and concrentrate on their own post and the evidence they post.

[throatyogurt]

Funny how lightgiver got so quiet.

[throatyogurt]

Bump for LightGiver!

[ultima1]

Bump for LightGiver!

Gues he did like our posts.

[throatyogurt]

I embarrassed him. The boy is cluless

[lightgiver]

911 Clues EVERYONE MISSED - YouTube

A very interesting look at 'eyewitnesses' on 9/11.


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;


Two major 9/11 anomalies have been thoroughly documented, specifically:

1) The stand down of US air defense on the morning of 9/11 that ... all » permitted commercial jet aircraft to fly erratically and in restricted air space without challenge

2) Overwhelming physical evidence that World Trade Center buildings #1, #2, and #7 were brought down by controlled demolition

A third significant anomaly has not been discussed, let alone acknowledged: the reporting by the major US TV news networks in the first few hours immediately after the attacks.

Specifically:

1. MSNBC presented an elaborately detailed story about the lifestyle and anti-US philosophy of Osama bin Laden - while
both towers were still burning and long before Bin Laden had been accused by anyone.

2. Fox News featured a "man in the street" eye witness who explained in strangely formal language the science behind why the towers collapsed when most engineers and firemen were utterly baffled and in shock by what had just taken place.

3. CBS featured a Bush administration insider (and not identified as such) as a guest who actively worked to dissuade Dan Rather (and viewers) from speculating that there must have been explosive charges placed in the buildings for them to have collapsed the way they did.

How was it that these stories - based on no fact, no research and no inquirry - appeared in full blown form so quickly on US news networks and then became part of the core myths of what happened on 9/11?

Were these stories prepared in advance?

There's an old intelligence saying that "once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, but three times is enemy action."

Because most of these clips ran only once and were not repeated after they'd done their job, it made it difficult, if not impossible, for viewers to analyze them critically.

Now, thanks to the magic of video tape and a few people who immediately started taping the news after the attacks, we have this important evidence that at the very least these attacks appear to have been anticipated and prepared for by forces that have the ability to exert strong influence over the output of the newsrooms of major US news networks.


BBC Reported Building 7 Collapse 20 Minutes Before It Fell
BBC Reported Building 7 Collapse 20 Minutes Before It Fell - YouTube

An astounding video uncovered from the archives today shows the BBC reporting on the collapse of WTC Building 7 over twenty minutes before it fell at 5:20pm on the afternoon of 9/11. The incredible footage shows a BBC reporter talking about the collapse of the Salomon Brothers Building while it remains standing in the live shot behind her head.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2007/050307Solution.htm

'Fahrenheit 9/11'

&#39;Fahrenheit 9/11&#39; - My Pet Goat - YouTube

On September 11th, 2001, after Andy Card told George W. Bush, "the nation is under attack," George, 'target #1' continued to sit in Booker Elementary School, surrounded by children, for nearly 7 minutes.

"Not knowing what to do -- with no one telling him what to do -- and no Secret Service rushing in to take him to safety, Mr. Bush just sat there and continued to read 'My Pet Goat' to the children." -- Michael Moore

[ultima1]

1) The stand down of US air defense on the morning of 9/11 that ... all » permitted commercial jet aircraft to fly erratically and in restricted air space without challenge.

Your doumented evidence of this ???????

2) Overwhelming physical evidence that World Trade Center buildings #1, #2, and #7 were brought down by controlled demolition.

Your documented evidence of towers being CD ?????

A third significant anomaly has not been discussed, let alone acknowledged: the reporting by the major US TV news networks in the first few hours immediately after the attacks.

Only the news networks stated it was a terrorist attack right away, the Department of Defense did not come out with information about an attack until later in the day.

[lightgiver]

Your doumented evidence of this ???????



No single smoking gun has yet been forwarded to explain why air defenses categorically reversed Standard Operating Procedure and failed to respond to hijacked jetliners. Until now. More and more individuals are looking at the facts and highlighting exercise drills that took place on the morning of 9/11.

Cheney: "The orders still stand" as Flight 77 approaches the Pentagon with no action taken to defend it

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the
Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as
Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the


9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

911 Commission - Trans. Sec Norman Mineta Testimony - YouTube

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there
was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got
down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice
President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned
and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand.
Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

As the plane was not shot down are we to take it that the orders were to let the plane find its target?

Agency planned exercise on Sept. 11 built around a plane crashing into a building

In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft would crash into one of its buildings. But the cause wasn't terrorism — it was to be a simulated accident.

PENTAGON WAS PREPARING FOR CRASH SCENARIO IN NOVEMBER 2000

Nov. 3, 2000 — The fire and smoke from the downed passenger aircraft billows from the Pentagon courtyard. Defense Protective Services Police seal the crash sight. Army medics, nurses and doctors scramble to organize aid. An Arlington Fire Department chief dispatches his equipment to the affected areas.

Alex Jones Discusses 9/11 Wargames

The current wave of research related to how wargames were used as the cover for the operational execution of 9/11 was first highlighted by Alex Jones in his August 2002 film, 'Masters of Terror'. This clip features Alex commenting on similar issues in a clip taken from an April 2004 Prison Planet.tv members-only video feature.

Alex Jones discusses 9/11 wargames in his 2002 film 'Masters of Terror'

The 9/11 USAF Stand Down

Question: How was a plane which was known to be hostile able to have an unimpeded 48 minute joyride around US airspace before slamming into the heart of the US military?

Answer: Stand down.

How the USAF was Stood Down on 9/11

On 9/11 there was no reaction from the USAF as hijacked aircraft flew through US airspace and plowed into buildings. This lack of response is inconceivable unless the USAF was stood down.

Scrambled F15’s From Otis Air Force Base: Mach 1.5 or Cruise Speed?

Why did General Myers initially state that no military aircraft was scrambled until after the Pentagon was hit? Why did Major Gen Arnold contradict that statement a few days later? Why did Major Gen Arnold state that they flew at mach 1.5, when it is obvious they didn’t? Why didn’t the F-15’s accelerate to mach 1.5 or higher?

9/11 Flight Controller: "Is This Real World or an Exercise?"

On a BBC video report which focuses on the 'hijacker screening video', a clip is played from the voice of a 9/11 flight controller, in which he responds to news of a hijacked flight heading towards New York with the words, "is this real world, or an exercise?'

FNMCC ops director asked substitute on 9-10 to stand his watch on 9-11

According to the personal written statement of Navy Captain Charles J. Leidig, Jr....on September 10 he was asked by Brigadier General Montague Winfield to stand a portion of his duty as Deputy Director for Operations for the National Military Command Center (NMCC), which would require supervision and operation of all necessary communications as watch commander.

Guilty For 9/11: Bush, Rumsfeld, Myers

On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C. They failed to do their job. Despite over one hour's advance warning of a terrorist attack in progress, not a single Andrews fighter took off (or scrambled) to protect the city.

Compare the reaction of the FAA to the Payne Stewart incident to that of 9/11

We are presenting this article from USA TODAY as a comparison of how the FAA reacted in this case (which is mandated under FAA rules and regulations) as opposed to how they did not react on 9-11.

35 USAF Bases Within Range On 911: The 7 Air Stations On Full Alert Covering The Continental United States And 28 More Air Stations That Were In Range Of The 4 Airliners On 911

Atlantic City F-16 Fighters Were Eight Minutes Away From 9/11 Hijacked Planes

Why? Why weren't they alerted? And even if they had been told about the hijackings, what could they have done? The jets weren't armed to shoot down another plane. Their mission was bombing drills. Why?

Found: The 911 "Stand Down Order"?

Jim Hoffman has discovered a document which I believe may be very important to the 911 skeptic movement. This document superseded earlier DOD procedures for dealing with hijacked aircraft, and it requires that Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld is personally responsible for issuing intercept orders.

Fighter jets from Andrews AFB escort 'hijack hoax' plane - why weren't these fighters scrambled to intercept Flight 77 and protect Washington on 9/11?

Two F-16 jets from Andrews Air Force Base were sent to intercept and escort the Airbus A319, said Maj. Ed Thomas of the North American Aerospace Defense Command.

Where were they on 9/11? Andrews AFB intercept jet near White House

The plane apparently strayed within the Air Defense Identification Zone, roughly a 23-mile radius around Washington, according to Les Dorr, spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration.

Representative Cynthia McKinney Grills Rumsfeld On 9/11 Wargames

Rumseld and Myers forced to shuffle uncomfortably and fumble for words as McKinney gets in their face about three issues seldom mentioned in official circles.

[lightgiver]

Only the news networks stated it was a terrorist attack right away, the Department of Defense did not come out with information about an attack until later in the day.

9:01 a.m.: Bush later makes the following statement. "And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I used to fly myself, and I said, 'There's one terrible pilot.' And I said, 'It must have been a horrible accident.' But I was whisked off from there -- I didn't have much time to think about it." Bush could not have possibly seen the first plane (American Airlines Flight 11) hit the WTC, because the only video showing this was not shown on television till later in the day. So how could he have possibly seen and said this?


9:23 a.m.: Bush talks privately with Cheney, his National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, the head of the FBI, Robert Mueller and Governor George Pataki of New York. Why does Bush wait from 9:05 (when Andrew Card tells him of United Airlines Flight 175 hitting the WTC) till 9:23 to finally call? He still does not give the authority to the fighters to shoot down any hostile airliners. What is he waiting for?


9:30 a m.: Bush, speaking to the nation from Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida, says the country has suffered an "apparent terrorist attack" and "a national tragedy." He would chase down, "those folks who committed this act." Bush also said, "Terrorism against our nation will not stand." It was an echo of "This will not stand," the words his father, George H. W. Bush, had used a few days after Iraq invaded Kuwait in August 1990-in Bush's opinion, one of his father's finest moments.


This address to the country should have been said at least 15 to 20 minutes earlier. But of course he had much more important business to attend to, he was listening to the Goat Story with the 16 second graders from 9:05 till at least 9:12 and possibly as long as 9:23.

84) 9:30 a.m.: The Secretary of State Colin Powell in Lima, Peru abruptly ended his breakfast with the Peruvian president after getting word of the second strike on the trade center and made plans to return to Washington. "Get the plane," he told an assistant. "Go tell them we're leaving." He had a seven-hour flight, with poor phone connections, ahead of him.

85) 9:30 a.m.: United Airlines begins landing all of its flights inside the United States.

86) 9:32 a.m.: Secret Service agents burst into Cheney's White House office. They carry him under his arms -- nearly lifting him off the ground -- and take him to the security of the underground bunker in the White House basement.

87) 9:32 a.m.: The New York Stock Exchange closed.



To summarize:

1. Before he entered the Emma E. Booker Elementary School, the President acknowledged that he knew that the first plane had hit the World Trade Center.

2. Vice President Cheney revealed on Meet the Press that from that moment forward, the Secret Service was on an open line to the FAA and would know that a second plane had been hijacked, transponders off, and heading for NY City.

3. Within minutes of entering the school President Bush was told that a second passenger plane had hit the South Tower of the World Trade Center.

4. The President remained in the school nearly 30 minutes longer.

5. Sarasota-Bradenton International Airport is only 5 minutes from Emma E. Booker Elementary School and Venice Municipal Airport is only 10 miles south of Sarasota.

6. Air traffic was not grounded until 9:40, the last flight landing at 10:25, and international flights were not diverted until after noon.

7. The President would logically be a prime target of terrorists.

8. By staying at Emma E. Booker Elementary School for over half an hour after the "attacks" began, the President was placing the children and staff in a situation of clear and present danger.

9. The Secret Service did not immediately remove the President from a situation highly vulnerable to attack.

10. All of this was reported in mainstream news.

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/Fairytale.html


BIN LADEN KIN FLOWN BACK TO SAUDI ARABIA

http://www.wanttoknow.info/010920globe

[frenat]

PENTAGON WAS PREPARING FOR CRASH SCENARIO IN NOVEMBER 2000

Nov. 3, 2000 — The fire and smoke from the downed passenger aircraft billows from the Pentagon courtyard. Defense Protective Services Police seal the crash sight. Army medics, nurses and doctors scramble to organize aid. An Arlington Fire Department chief dispatches his equipment to the affected areas.
The Pentagon is directly under the landing path of an international airport. Why would it be odd for them to have a plan in the event of a crash?

The 9/11 USAF Stand Down

Question: How was a plane which was known to be hostile able to have an unimpeded 48 minute joyride around US airspace before slamming into the heart of the US military?

Answer: Stand down.

How the USAF was Stood Down on 9/11

On 9/11 there was no reaction from the USAF as hijacked aircraft flew through US airspace and plowed into buildings. This lack of response is inconceivable unless the USAF was stood down.
Or if NORAD didn't look inward before 911 because they were expecting a threat from outside.

On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C. They failed to do their job. Despite over one hour's advance warning of a terrorist attack in progress, not a single Andrews fighter took off (or scrambled) to protect the city.
The fighters at Andrews were not on alert. They were not supposed to be on alert. The reason some think they had the job of protecting the skies over DC was a quote they used to have on their website saying they were "combat ready". All that means is they are trained for combat, ready to deploy. It does not mean they are constantly on alert.

Compare the reaction of the FAA to the Payne Stewart incident to that of 9/11

We are presenting this article from USA TODAY as a comparison of how the FAA reacted in this case (which is mandated under FAA rules and regulations) as opposed to how they did not react on 9-11.
What about the reaction to Payne Stewart? It took well over an hour to intercept Stewart's plane. Some think it was shorter because the NTSB accident report switches time zones from Eastern to Central losing an hour. Don't believe me? Look for yourself.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001212X19931&ntsbno=DCA00MA005&akey=1
No contact with the plane at 0933:38 EDT (Eastern Daylight Time) and first plane within 8 miles at 0952 CDT (Central Daylight Time). That is well over an hour. Also interesting is the first plane to intercept it was not one dedicated to air defense but one that was already airborne for a training mission.



The plane apparently strayed within the Air Defense Identification Zone, roughly a 23-mile radius around Washington, according to Les Dorr, spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration.

There is no ADIZ 23 mile radius or otherwise around DC. The graphic often associated with this mistaken belief is this one.
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp65/frenat/p-56wrong.jpg
Which is actually a depiction of Class B and C airspace for the multiple airports in the area.
The only restricted airspace around Washington DC is P-56 which is much smaller in size and directly over the capitol and white house but not the Pentagon nor many other parts of DC.
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp65/frenat/P-56reality.jpg

[frenat]

9:01 a.m.: Bush later makes the following statement. "And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I used to fly myself, and I said, 'There's one terrible pilot.' And I said, 'It must have been a horrible accident.' But I was whisked off from there -- I didn't have much time to think about it." Bush could not have possibly seen the first plane (American Airlines Flight 11) hit the WTC, because the only video showing this was not shown on television till later in the day. So how could he have possibly seen and said this?

How? Bush was not a great public speaker. There used to be multiple websites dedicated to his multiple misspeaks. It is unclear if he is saying he saw the actual impact (which would of course be impossible) or just that he saw a plane "had" hit the tower.(which is far more likely as multiple news stations were running the smoking tower live before the second impact).


BIN LADEN KIN FLOWN BACK TO SAUDI ARABIA

http://www.wanttoknow.info/010920globe
And? They weren't flown back until the 20th, after airspace was reopened and after they voluntarily submitted to questioning. They could have instead driven to Canada and flown back earlier.
http://www.911myths.com/html/family_flights.html

[bryan]

Your documented evidence of towers being CD ?????

Funny how the same person can believe an animated cartoon is a "fact", but fail to see that videos of live TV coverage are "evidence".

[ultima1]

Funny how the same person can believe an animated cartoon is a "fact", but fail to see that videos of live TV coverage are "evidence".

You mean an animation supported by scientific research that you and others cannot debate ???

You mean the live coverage that shows the planes disapearing into the buildings as they are shreded ???

[bryan]

You mean the live coverage that shows the planes disapearing into the buildings as they are shreded ???

I mean the live coverage showing the towers being demolished.

[ultima1]

I mean the live coverage showing the towers being demolished.

Any evidence to support the towers demo.

I mean we have evidence of Building 7 demo but what about the towers.

[lightgiver]

I feel an investigation is needed

seeing there's never been one

Just goes to show how sadly corrupt it all is


BTW mods 1 of the posts on I did on WTC 7 Has gone :confused:

So here is some of it again,

YouTube - CCTV/TVCC fire in Beijing (HD version) 北京央视大楼着火 - close-up of fire explosion:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Aftermath - Beijing CCTV Annex Fire - Mandarin Oriental Hotel

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


Look we all know it was a inside job


(Unseen Footage) Tower 7 blasted into rubble from NEW angle!

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

and there is plenty evidence

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[ultima1]

[QUOTE=lightgiver;1059081877]Aftermath - Beijing CCTV Annex Fire - Mandarin Oriental Hotel

1. Was the hotel an all steel building ????

2. You do know that the building codes are different in other countries.

NO steel skyscraper has collapsed from fire in the US before or after 9/11.

[lightgiver]

[QUOTE=lightgiver;1059081877]Aftermath - Beijing CCTV Annex Fire - Mandarin Oriental Hotel

1. Was the hotel an all steel building ????

2. You do know that the building codes are different in other countries.

NO steel skyscraper has collapsed from fire in the US before or after 9/11.

No buildings in the memory of man have collapsed like that ask Fred Dibnah


Fred Dibnah - The Last Chimney

Fred Dibnah - The Last Chimney - YouTube

I don't give a crap what it is made of ,concrete does not pulverize like that :rolleyes:


we will get the facts when a open and full investigation is carried out by proper experts,who have already determined it was an inside job

all the deniers can waffle until the cows come home

inside job fact

and the real suckers who were responsible are soon gonna be tasting lead.

[bryan]

No buildings in the memory of man have collapsed like that ask Fred Dibnah


Fred Dibnah - The Last Chimney

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=945T56ZxFkE


I was going past his old house the other day and I was thinking it's a pity he's not still around so we could ask him.

[lightgiver]

:)

[lightgiver]

The 9/11 hijackers are alive - YouTube

According to the chief of Japans Democratic Party who says that the 9/11 hijackers are alive and that 9/11 was a complete hoax. Dr. David Ray Griffin is a professor and author who wrote The New Pearl Harbor Revisited and he says that he agrees; the World Trade Center was a hoax.

[theabominablephenomenon]

What hijackers?

[ultima1]

What hijackers?

Thanks agiain for showing you are just trolling and have nothing relevant to add to the forum.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Thanks agiain for showing you are just trolling and have nothing relevant to add to the forum.

And your posts add what?
Stupidity?

Another thread where you expose yourself as a living paradox.
You state that certain websites show reasonable doubt that the hijackers are dead; that is enough for you on this thread apparently.
on other threads, there is evidence of first responders witnessing secondary explosions in the twin towers, and there are many websites citing the use of explosives on 9/11, but that isn't enough for you.
Bizarro.
Yet twisted logic is what I've come to expect from your inexplicable postings.

Show me proof the hijackers were on the planes.

[ultima1]

You state that certain websites show reasonable doubt that the hijackers are dead;

But there were hijackers, unless you can prove otherwise.

Show me proof the hijackers were on the planes.

What about the calls from the flight attendents, unless you can prove them false?

[theabominablephenomenon]

But there were hijackers, unless you can prove otherwise.
What makes you think that?
Shouldn't be hard to show the proof then.... where is it?
I was hoping you were going to show me the righteous path of truth and honesty.
Now I feel deflated.


What about the calls from the flight attendents, unless you can prove them false?

Dubious and not substantial enough for me.
Voices can be easily modified/edited...

[matrix911]

Voices can be easily modified/edited...

actually the OS/oct has never PROVEN the calls were real to begin with.

but then, It really can't be done anyway, so why bother getting sucked into another triltima freak show?

[theabominablephenomenon]

actually the OS/oct has never PROVEN the calls were real to begin with.

but then, It really can't be done anyway, so why bother getting sucked into another triltima freak show?

I don't believe any of the phone call stories.

If that's the best evidence Ultima has that hijackers were on the flights,
there isn't much left to argue about!:D

[lightgiver]

What hijackers?

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8310/crashintomordor911.jpg (http://img831.imageshack.us/i/crashintomordor911.jpg/)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m31MFfdih9w

You would be better ignoring the Ultimat e Troll.

He trolls all this section.

Her other MATES troll all the other sections.


Whoops Apocalypse

[theabominablephenomenon]

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8310/crashintomordor911.jpg (http://img831.imageshack.us/i/crashintomordor911.jpg/)

You would be better ignoring the Ultimat e Troll.

He trolls all this section.

His other MATES troll all the other sections.


:D
I know yes,
his arguments will come back to haunt him and confirm him as a damned pest though.

[ultima1]

Voices can be easily modified/edited...

Do you have proof this was done, or jsut more of your conjecture as usual?

[theabominablephenomenon]

Do you have proof this was done, or jsut more of your conjecture as usual?

I can prove it can be done.
However you are now digressing from the original point which was proof of hijackers.
If this is the only evidence you have to prove that the hijackers were on the planes it is flimsy at best.
Is it sufficient to implicate 19 men in such an atrocity?
Nope.
Do the phone calls name and identify all 19 men as hijackers?
Nope.
Was the phone call possible?
Doubtful.

So that provides reasonable enough doubt to discount that theory.
(We only need reasonable doubt, remember?:D)

So where is this proof of hijackers?
:rolleyes:

[ultima1]

I can prove it can be done.
However you are now digressing from the original point which was proof of hijackers.


You are the one who brought up the voices, so you digressed from the original point. Now you have to backtrack before you get proven wrong yet again.

[theabominablephenomenon]

You are the one who brought up the voices, so you digressed from the original point. Now you have to backtrack before you get proven wrong yet again.

So now you have to resort to lying to duck the core issue.
Amazing.


What about the calls from the flight attendents, unless you can prove them false?

In other words, you have no further proof of the hijackers being on the planes.

So my original point stands, (which you were calling me for:rolleyes:)

what hijackers?

[ultima1]

So now you have to resort to lying to duck the core issue.Amazing.

Where did i lie? You are the one who borught it up, and went of topic.


In other words, you have no further proof of the hijackers being on the planes.

Nice dodge, why can't you answer the question?

Also i have lots of evidence of hijackers.

So my original point stands, (which you were calling me for:rolleyes:)

Still waiting for evidence of faked calls and voices.

what hijackers?

The hijackers that the flight attendents spoke of and the ones we have DNA of.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Where did i lie? You are the one who borught it up, and went of topic.

You lied by saying I brought up the phone calls.
Not true.
I brought up the 'what hijackers?'
You brought up the phone calls.

It is hardly off topic either if we are to establish the likelihood of the alleged hijackers still being alive if we cannot even establish if they were on the flights.:rolleyes:



Nice dodge, why can't you answer the question?
Dodge of what?
what question?
If you refer to the phone calls again, they do not hold enough weight of evidence to be proof of anything.
Also i have lots of evidence of hijackers.

Right, so any reason to hold it back any further?

Still waiting for evidence of faked calls and voices.

Irrelevant.
They are NOT proof that any of those men were the men we are told.
How many phone calls were made on each flight?

The hijackers that the flight attendents spoke of and the ones we have DNA of.

Who has the DNA?

Just post up all the proof of hijackers being involved instead of arguing about it.
Let the dog see the rabbit.

[ultima1]

You lied by saying I brought up the phone calls.
Not true.

This is your post, so everyone can see who the liar is.
Originally Posted by theabominablephenomenon
Voices can be easily modified/edited...

Who has the DNA?

Do some reseasrch, find out about something called Armed Forces Identification Lab. Also try looking up an criminal investigation.

Just post up all the proof of hijackers being involved instead of arguing about it.
Let the dog see the rabbit.

So fun and easy to prove you wrong with evidence, something you always fail to post.

http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=armed_forces_dna_identification_ laboratory_1
However, by the time Dover staff formally end their identification effort, on November 16, they have identified remains of 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon or aboard Flight 77, including the five hijackers (see November 21, 2001).

[theabominablephenomenon]

This is your post, so everyone can see who the liar is.
Originally Posted by theabominablephenomenon
Voices can be easily modified/edited...


That was post 146.
Funnily enough it was preceded by post 145 which was...





What about the calls from the flight attendents, unless you can prove them false?

So we can clearly see you brought up the phone calls.
Jesus wept.



Do some reseasrch, find out about something called Armed Forces Identification Lab. Also try looking up an criminal investigation.

I'm asking you....

So fun and easy to prove you wrong with evidence, something you always fail to post.

http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=armed_forces_dna_identification_ laboratory_1
However, by the time Dover staff formally end their identification effort, on November 16, [B]they have identified remains of 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon or aboard Flight 77, including the five hijackers (see November 21, 2001).

Wait a minute...
one minute you are saying the hijackers could be alive,
next you are confirming they are dead?
Do you agree that if they were on any of those planes they would be dead?

Who verified the human remains of flight 77?
They went to a military base to do it didn't they?
Good job we can trust them.

[dave52]

CeeCee Lyles phone message left for her Husband on their answering machine.

Right at the end as the phone is being hung up. You can hear the words "You did great".

F93 Attendent CeeCee Lyles Leaves a Message For Her Husband - YouTube

[troubled]

CeeCee Lyles phone message left for her Husband on their answering machine.

Right at the end as the phone is being hung up. You can hear the words "You did great".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUrxsrTKHN4
thats what i hear.

[ultima1]

Wait a minute...
one minute you are saying the hijackers could be alive,
next you are confirming they are dead?

I thought we were discussing if there were hijackers or not,,, not if alive or dead.

Don't keep trying to twist and change the subject.

Lets go to your post #142,

What hijackers?

[theabominablephenomenon]

I thought we were discussing if there were hijackers or not,,, not if alive or dead.

Don't keep trying to twist and change the subject.

Lets go to your post #142,

I'm not.
It seems you are getting confused.
I had hoped the last post would clarify.

You suggest that some of the alleged hijackers are still alive....yes?
Do you agree that if they were on any of those planes, they would be dead... yes?
So, I'm looking for proof that the hijackers that we are told in the official story were actually on the planes.
The only way any of them could have survived, is if they were not on the flights at all... do you agree?

[ultima1]

You suggest that some of the alleged hijackers are still alive....yes?

No, i am stating that DNA of dead hijackers proves there were hijackers.

So, I'm looking for proof that the hijackers that we are told in the official story were actually on the planes.

The DNA from the Armed Forces Lab proofs there were hijakers.

The only way any of them could have survived, is if they were not on the flights at all... do you agree?

NO, you do know that the hijackers used fake and phoney documents to get tickets.

[bryan]

No, i am stating that DNA of dead hijackers proves there were hijackers.

The DNA from the Armed Forces Lab proofs there were hijakers.

Are you saying that people hijack planes because it's in their DNA?

[dave52]

The DNA from the Armed Forces Lab proofs there were hijakers.

MIC creates terror outrage to perpetuate the status quo of endless, total war.

MIC tells us there were highjackers.

Must be true.

[ultima1]

Are you saying that people hijack planes because it's in their DNA?

NO, i am stating DNA was proof there were hijackers.

[ultima1]

MIC tells us there were highjackers.

Must be true.

Unlike you and others i do not go by what i am told, i go by facts and evidence.

Maybe you should try looking into facts and evidence instead of listneing to and following others.

[theabominablephenomenon]

No, i am stating that DNA of dead hijackers proves there were hijackers.

DNA proves hijacking how?



The DNA from the Armed Forces Lab proofs there were hijakers.

Ah, the trusted ol' US military.
DNA proves hijacking how?

and as to the other planes...
Where is the proof of hijackers?


NO, you do know that the hijackers used fake and phoney documents to get tickets.

What hijackers?

[ultima1]

What hijackers?

The hijackers on 9/11. The ones the criminal investigations has proof of.

Unless you have proof there were no hijackers, i would like to see it.

[matrix911]

NO, i am stating DNA was proof there were hijackers.

The government wasn't able to properly identify any of the hijackers because the FBI said they were all using stolen identities. Therefore when the FBI claimed they identified the hijackers using DNA, one has to laugh since who were the FBI comparing the DNA to! LOL

And when the alleged planes crashed in the WTC, how did the FBI get their DNA? Fact is, the planes vaporized in the explosions and the WTC demolition. What does the FBI have or how does it collect DNA? Some top secret DNA machine that can sift through millions of tons of soot and ash under the WTC debris? ROTFLMFAO! YEAH RIGHT

[ultima1]

Therefore when the FBI claimed they identified the hijackers using DNA, one has to laugh since who were the FBI comparing the DNA to! LOL


As usual you have proven how little you know about anything. Maybe some day when you learn how to do reaserch we can have an adult discussion.


And when the alleged planes crashed in the WTC, how did the FBI get their DNA?

Do not tell me you do not know about the vehilces and luggage that the hijackers left behind that the FBI could get DNA samples from.

Never ceases to amsze me how little you really know about what happened that day.

[matrix911]

As usual you have proven how little you know about anything. Maybe some day when you learn how to do reaserch we can have an adult discussion.

Do not tell me you do not know about the vehilces and luggage that the hijackers left behind that the FBI could get DNA samples from.

Never ceases to amsze me how little you really know about what happened that day.

never ceases to amaze me how little intelligence, common sense and critical thinking skills you have that you can ignore the evidence exposing the scenario regarding hijackers vehicles, and luggage left behind.

just like so many other illogical and impossible scenarios such as the random ludicrous coincidence finding "hijackers" passports, bandana and ID's you find nothing suspect or odd about.

only a shill would blindly accept such evidence as proof of anything other than the planting of evidence, nrpt and inside job.

so its impossible to have an adult discussion with someone in this much denial and who has proven themselves a shill.

[bryan]

NO, i am stating DNA was proof there were hijackers.

Which part of human DNA can be used to identify a person as a hijacker?

[ultima1]

never ceases to amaze me how little intelligence, common sense and critical thinking skills you have that you can ignore the evidence exposing the scenario regarding hijackers vehicles, and luggage left behind.

Yet again, what evidence? Not more of your conjecture and what you have been told?

so its impossible to have an adult discussion with someone in this much denial and who has proven themselves a shill.

No, its impossiable to have an adult discussion with someone who has no common sense and cannot even do basic research.

[ultima1]

Which part of human DNA can be used to identify a person as a hijacker?

Tha part that matches the ID's in papertrails of the hijackers.

[bryan]

Tha part that matches the ID's in papertrails of the hijackers.

You said the DNA proves there were hijackers. Now you're saying the DNA only matches fake ID's from papertrails left by people who are assumed to be hijackers. In other words, the DNA is a red herring. For DNA to be of any use at all, independent proof of hijackers is needed.

[ultima1]

You said the DNA proves there were hijackers. Now you're saying the DNA only matches fake ID's from papertrails left by people who are assumed to be hijackers.

NO thats not what said, are you really that immature you have to twist what i state?

I stated that DNA matches ID's on actual paper trails to hijackers real ID. You really know nothing about what goes on in the world.

Please try reading the 9/11 commision report sometime.

For DNA to be of any use at all, independent proof of hijackers is needed.

Please see FBI sites, NIST new DNA testing and Armed Forces ID lab for details.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Ah the 'paper trail' that leads to the Bin Laden war-on-terror scenario.
Yet the FBI themselves have stated they have no evidence of Bin Laden involvement.
The whole thing is a scam.
Any evidence from 'official' sources or military, is highly suspect and dogmatic.

There is no solid evidence of a hijacking.
No hijack codes were punched into any of those planes.

In my opinion, the only way those planes hit their targets with such great precision,
is by remote control.

[ultima1]

Ah the 'paper trail' that leads to the Bin Laden war-on-terror scenario.

MODS and everyone please take note that i never stated anything about Bin Laden. Peple on here really like to twist post.

In my opinion, the only way those planes hit their targets with such great precision,is by remote control.

Do you have evidence to support this, or just your usual conjecture?

I mean i have sources about remotre control but i am waiting for yours.

[theabominablephenomenon]

MODS and everyone please take note that i never stated anything about Bin Laden. Peple on here really like to twist post.

and where did I say you did?
you're ego is a little inflated.

oh and as for crying to the mods all the time;
in cyberspace, no-one can hear you scream!

Do you have evidence to support this, or just your usual conjecture?
Notice the sentence starts with the words, 'in my opinion.':rolleyes:


I mean i have sources about remotre control but i am waiting for yours.

Well done,
Don't get too exited you'll make a mess on your computer.

[ultima1]

oh and as for crying to the mods all the time;[/quote

I am not crying to the mods i just need to make expamples of people on here so they stop the attacks, insults and trolling.

[quote]Well done,
Don't get too exited you'll make a mess on your computer.

So in there words you do not have any evidence to support your claim as usual.

[dave52]

NIST new DNA testing

So, NIST is to be ignored when it comes to the building 7 study, but their DNA information is second to none...?

Brilliant.

[ultima1]

So, NIST is to be ignored when it comes to the building 7 study, but their DNA information is second to none...?.

Gee you really do not know that the people that did the building investigation and did the DNA test are not the same people.

Also the NIST reports state that NIST did not recover steel from buidling 7 for testing.

Its so sad to see people not even knowing the basics of anything that happens in the world.

[dreamscope]

Gee you really do not know that the people that did the building investigation and did the DNA test are not the same people.

Also the NIST reports state that NIST did not recover steel from buidling 7 for testing.

Its so sad to see people not even knowing the basics of anything that happens in the world.

New thread for me. Can you enlighten me on these 'basics' by posting proof of

a)hijacked planes

b)identity of the hijackers

Thanks in advance, I just need to know the basics.

[bryan]

I stated that DNA matches ID's on actual paper trails to hijackers real ID. You really know nothing about what goes on in the world.

If the ID's on the paper trails were fake, how did they find out the real ID's so quickly, and where did they get the conlrol samples to confirm them?

[bryan]

Gee you really do not know that the people that did the building investigation and did the DNA test are not the same people.

Commonly known as 'cherry picking'.

[dave52]

So, just to get this straight...

A DNA test from a discredited Government Agency is ok. Even though they've been proven to have lied about the facts of WTC7's demise...?

You do pick and choose Ultima, you've transcended annoyance and time-wasting and moved into a whole new realm of comic genius.

Do you understand the concept behind the word Patsy...?

[ultima1]

If the ID's on the paper trails were fake, how did they find out the real ID's so quickly, and where did they get the conlrol samples to confirm them?

Because the IDs on the paper trails were not fake,, not the ones before the fake ones to get into the country.

As stated the DNA sample came from sources such as vehicles, clothes, belongings that were left behind.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/664001/advanced_technology_in_dna_analysis.html?cat=46
DNA can be obtained from items such as: "chewing gum, steering wheels, welding masks, cigarette butts, beverage cans, automobile air bags, bite marks, sunflower seeds, clothing with perspiration, ski masks, envelopes, car dash boards, work gloves, pistol grips, tooth brushes, skull and femur bones, fingernail clippings, saliva from breast and neck swabs, clothing submerged in water, straws, and hair."

[lightgiver]

Ultima BS... Back to school

Mr Bean - Back to school -- Zurück zur Schule Mr Bean - YouTube

[theabominablephenomenon]

I am not crying to the mods i just need to make expamples of people on here so they stop the attacks, insults and trolling.
:mad:
You are.
you constantly do.
You cannot make an example of anybody here except yourself,
and you do that with fantastic aplomb.:D
Apart from that I hadn't said anything against you,
it was your presumptuousness that led you to believe I stated you mentioned Bin Laden.:rolleyes:
You are a total waste of time.
A time-sink.:mad:


So in there words you do not have any evidence to support your claim as usual.

Speaking of attacking?:rolleyes:
You deserve what you get.
Goodbye ultima1,
it has been both unpleasant and bizarre to say the least.
You are my first...

This message cannot be displayed because ultima1 is on your ignore list

[bryan]

As stated the DNA sample came from sources such as vehicles, clothes, belongings that were left behind.

So the labs weren't even trying to prove that the people who were named as the hijackers were the same people who left belongings behind.

[ultima1]

So the labs weren't even trying to prove that the people who were named as the hijackers were the same people who left belongings behind.

They did prove that the hijackers were the same people who left things behind.

[troubled]

CSI Fraud: researchers craft fake DNA evidence
By John Timmer | Last updated August 18, 2009 3:22 PM
If there's one application of modern genetics that the public has not only accepted but embraced, it's the use of DNA testing in criminal investigations. Courts have accepted DNA evidence as definitive, and it's difficult to imagine a movie or TV show that focuses on law enforcement but declines to use DNA testing as a plot device. The reason is simple: given a valid DNA sample, the tests can match it to its source with probabilities that exclude the rest of our planet's population. Those probabilities still hold, but some researchers have now looked into whether it's possible to fake a valid DNA sample, and they have come up with a disturbing answer: just about any molecular biology lab has the tools to do so.

DNA evidence is appealing largely because it's rigorously scientific: we have empirical data about the prevalence of different genetic variations in the population, and it's easy to calculate the probability of any individual carrying a specific combination of those variants. Look at enough of them, and you can lower that probability to the point where it's less than one in several billion, meaning that DNA's owner is likely to be the only person on earth with that precise combination.

In contrast, as recent reports have indicated, there's not a lot of science to the rest of forensic science. As the authors of the new paper point out, in contrast to the science behind DNA, "other types of forensic evidence, such as ballistics, blood-spatter analysis, and fiber analysis... rely on expert judgment and have limited connection to established science. [DNA] is even considered to be more reliable than eyewitness evidence, which is known to suffer from a relatively high rate of errors."

Which is what makes their report disturbing. The forensic processing pipeline includes a variety of methods to identify likely sources of DNA, ranging from identifying obvious points of contact like the grip of a gun, to locating sources of biological material, such as blood and saliva spatters. DNA is then isolated from these sources. But there's no way to determine if the DNA that actually wound up in or on the sample is actually the same DNA it started with.

As the researchers demonstrate, it's possible to exploit this loophole with a vengeance. Purified DNA can be smeared all over the surface of your choice, such as a gun grip. It's also possible to eliminate the original DNA from blood and saliva samples using a standard piece of lab equipment called a centrifuge, which spins rapidly in order to separate components of liquids based on their density. So, for example, it's possible to spin all the cells that contain DNA out of a saliva sample, or separate the white blood cells out of a blood sample. The liquid that's left behind looks like a valid biological sample, but contains none of the original DNA.

All that's left then is to replace the original DNA. Since most of the forensic tests are performed using a standard set of DNA fragments amplified by PCR, the authors simply took an environmental sample ("blood, dry saliva stains on absorbent paper, skin scrapings, hair, and smoked cigarette butts were collected"), amplified up the same fragments, and then spiked the purified blood and saliva with this DNA. They estimate that a library of about 425 DNA fragments would be enough to fake a match to just about anyone in existing DNA databases—without any DNA from that individual ever being obtained.

Of course, if any forensic technician goes digging beyond the standard genetic markers, problems would become apparent pretty quickly. Still, the authors are ready for this eventuality. A technique has been around since 2001 that allows the entire human genome to be amplified, starting from a sample with fewer than 10 cells. Here, you'd definitely need a DNA sample from the individual you're trying to frame, but it wouldn't take much of one.

To show that their results were more than an intellectual curiosity, the authors shipped some fabricated samples off to a third-party DNA testing facility. As far as the facility was concerned, everything looked legitimate.

Fortunately, in identifying the problem, the researchers have come up with a solution. DNA inside human cells picks up a chemical modification called methylation; DNA amplified in a test tube doesn't. It's possible to determine whether or not a given stretch of DNA has been methylated using standard lab techniques, although these are a bit laborious and time-consuming, and it's the sort of technique that hasn't made its way into forensic training yet. Still, testing for methylation in a DNA sample should provide an important quality control on the sample—at least until biologists figure out how to apply methylation in a controlled manner.

It would be tempting to view this as an arms race between the sophistication of fabrication and forensic techniques, but the fact is that your garden variety criminal is unlikely to have the skills and equipment needed to pull a fake off. What it may do is undermine the general confidence in the use of DNA evidence. There's simply no way of knowing a priori which cases might have a molecular biologist with a vested interest, and therefore which samples need to be tested for tampering. It appears that we'll need to start testing methylation patterns in every case in order to retain confidence in the general techniques.

In the meantime, the most immediate effect of the paper is that it's almost certainly set off a spasm of scriptwriting among those responsible for TV whodunnits.

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/08/dna-samples-used-by-crime-labs-faked-in-research-lab.ars

[ultima1]

So i see no one posting any evidence of no hijackers.

[dreamscope]

So i see no one posting any evidence of no hijackers.

You still haven't answered my request for proof of hijackers.

Avoiding, twisting and trolling...that's all you do isn't it?

[ultima1]

You still haven't answered my request for proof of hijackers.

Speaking of twisting and trolling,

Why are you ignoring the DNA evidence?

Why are you ignoring the Flight attendents calls?

Why are you ignoring the Investigastions?

Do you have proof that there were no hijackers?

[dreamscope]

Speaking of twisting and trolling,

Why are you ignoring the DNA evidence?

Why are you ignoring the Flight attendents calls?

Why are you ignoring the Investigastions?

Do you have proof that there were no hijackers?

Excuse me, why have you avoided my questions to you?

[ultima1]

Excuse me, why have you avoided my questions to you?

I answerd your questions,, its not my fault if you do not like the answers.

But i will post it again so everyeon can see i have posted it.

Evidence of hijackers,

DNA evidence
Flight attendents calls
The Investigations

[dreamscope]

I answerd your questions,, its not my fault if you do not like the answers.

But i will post it again so everyeon can see i have posted it.

Evidence of hijackers,

DNA evidence
Flight attendents calls
The Investigations

That hasn't answered my question at all.

I asked for proof. All you have posted is the official line, which has been found false and suspicious, as explained above.

[troubled]

ultima read some Barry Sheck and learn something about DNA evidence. or get an audio book if you cant read.

[ultima1]

That hasn't answered my question at all.

I asked for proof.

Thats so sad. Just shows you will not or cannot do research.

You think DNA is not evidence or was faked?

You think that the calls were faked?

[ultima1]

ultima read some Barry Sheck and learn something about DNA evidence. or get an audio book if you cant read.

Better yet why don't you post proof that the DNA evidence on 9/11 was wrong or faked.

Oh thats right you cannot, you cannot do research and post sources.

[dreamscope]

Thats so sad. Just shows you will not or cannot do research.

You think DNA is not evidence or was faked?

You think that the calls were faked?

I've done research, obviously you haven't.

The DNA is only as valid as the source it comes from. Understand that?

As for the calls, well it was a simple scientific fact at that time that those calls could not have been made from the aircraft.

Go do your research.

[troubled]

CSI Fraud: researchers craft fake DNA evidence
By John Timmer | Last updated August 18, 2009 3:22 PM
If there's one application of modern genetics that the public has not only accepted but embraced, it's the use of DNA testing in criminal investigations. Courts have accepted DNA evidence as definitive, and it's difficult to imagine a movie or TV show that focuses on law enforcement but declines to use DNA testing as a plot device. The reason is simple: given a valid DNA sample, the tests can match it to its source with probabilities that exclude the rest of our planet's population. Those probabilities still hold, but some researchers have now looked into whether it's possible to fake a valid DNA sample, and they have come up with a disturbing answer: just about any molecular biology lab has the tools to do so.

DNA evidence is appealing largely because it's rigorously scientific: we have empirical data about the prevalence of different genetic variations in the population, and it's easy to calculate the probability of any individual carrying a specific combination of those variants. Look at enough of them, and you can lower that probability to the point where it's less than one in several billion, meaning that DNA's owner is likely to be the only person on earth with that precise combination.

In contrast, as recent reports have indicated, there's not a lot of science to the rest of forensic science. As the authors of the new paper point out, in contrast to the science behind DNA, "other types of forensic evidence, such as ballistics, blood-spatter analysis, and fiber analysis... rely on expert judgment and have limited connection to established science. [DNA] is even considered to be more reliable than eyewitness evidence, which is known to suffer from a relatively high rate of errors."

Which is what makes their report disturbing. The forensic processing pipeline includes a variety of methods to identify likely sources of DNA, ranging from identifying obvious points of contact like the grip of a gun, to locating sources of biological material, such as blood and saliva spatters. DNA is then isolated from these sources. But there's no way to determine if the DNA that actually wound up in or on the sample is actually the same DNA it started with.

As the researchers demonstrate, it's possible to exploit this loophole with a vengeance. Purified DNA can be smeared all over the surface of your choice, such as a gun grip. It's also possible to eliminate the original DNA from blood and saliva samples using a standard piece of lab equipment called a centrifuge, which spins rapidly in order to separate components of liquids based on their density. So, for example, it's possible to spin all the cells that contain DNA out of a saliva sample, or separate the white blood cells out of a blood sample. The liquid that's left behind looks like a valid biological sample, but contains none of the original DNA.

All that's left then is to replace the original DNA. Since most of the forensic tests are performed using a standard set of DNA fragments amplified by PCR, the authors simply took an environmental sample ("blood, dry saliva stains on absorbent paper, skin scrapings, hair, and smoked cigarette butts were collected"), amplified up the same fragments, and then spiked the purified blood and saliva with this DNA. They estimate that a library of about 425 DNA fragments would be enough to fake a match to just about anyone in existing DNA databases—without any DNA from that individual ever being obtained.

Of course, if any forensic technician goes digging beyond the standard genetic markers, problems would become apparent pretty quickly. Still, the authors are ready for this eventuality. A technique has been around since 2001 that allows the entire human genome to be amplified, starting from a sample with fewer than 10 cells. Here, you'd definitely need a DNA sample from the individual you're trying to frame, but it wouldn't take much of one.

To show that their results were more than an intellectual curiosity, the authors shipped some fabricated samples off to a third-party DNA testing facility. As far as the facility was concerned, everything looked legitimate.

Fortunately, in identifying the problem, the researchers have come up with a solution. DNA inside human cells picks up a chemical modification called methylation; DNA amplified in a test tube doesn't. It's possible to determine whether or not a given stretch of DNA has been methylated using standard lab techniques, although these are a bit laborious and time-consuming, and it's the sort of technique that hasn't made its way into forensic training yet. Still, testing for methylation in a DNA sample should provide an important quality control on the sample—at least until biologists figure out how to apply methylation in a controlled manner.

It would be tempting to view this as an arms race between the sophistication of fabrication and forensic techniques, but the fact is that your garden variety criminal is unlikely to have the skills and equipment needed to pull a fake off. What it may do is undermine the general confidence in the use of DNA evidence. There's simply no way of knowing a priori which cases might have a molecular biologist with a vested interest, and therefore which samples need to be tested for tampering. It appears that we'll need to start testing methylation patterns in every case in order to retain confidence in the general techniques.

In the meantime, the most immediate effect of the paper is that it's almost certainly set off a spasm of scriptwriting among those responsible for TV whodunnits.

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/08/dna-samples-used-by-crime-labs-faked-in-research-lab.ars
bump, technology was their, read if you can. proof, prove you exist

[ultima1]

The DNA is only as valid as the source it comes from. Understand that?

Yes i do, and if you had done research you would know that it is why NIST had to come up with new DNA testing just for the WTC.

As for the calls, well it was a simple scientific fact at that time that those calls could not have been made from the aircraft.

Show you sources. Proper, verifiable sources.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Did the autopsy list for flight 77 include any arab names?

[dreamscope]

Show you sources. Proper, verifiable sources.

What, you're incapable of doing a google search?

Seek and ye shall find, it is all there for you.

What do you mean by 'proper'? You mean government-approved? Wake up.

What do you mean by 'verifiable'? By what authority?

[bryan]

They did prove that the hijackers were the same people who left things behind.

You're assuming no DNA was planted.

You're assuming the belongings left behind at the airport weren't planted.

You're assuming the labs weren't under pressure to confirm the government's story.

You're assuming there were hijackers, which is exactly what you're meant to be proving.


Why don't the DNA tests match the samples taken from the alleged crash sites and the belongings left at the airports with samples taken from belongings left in the home countries? The DNA tests are a joke, just like NIST's investigation into building 7 which failed to test for explosives.

[shocker]

Also i have lots of evidence of hijackers.



Please could you elaborate and show your proof. I think it would end a lot of bickering if you showed us what you have :)

[ultima1]

You're assuming no DNA was planted.

You are assuming it was planted.

You're assuming the belongings left behind at the airport weren't planted.

You are assuming it was planted

You're assuming the labs weren't under pressure to confirm the government's story.

You are assuming they were under pressure.

You're assuming there were hijackers, which is exactly what you're meant to be proving.

I have posted sources that there were hijackers.

[madmax]

No, i am stating that DNA of dead hijackers proves there were hijackers.

If the highjackers were vapourized or otherwise destroyed in the fires that brought down the towers what proof is there other than speculation that the highjackers were on the planes

The DNA from the Armed Forces Lab proofs there were hijakers.

Was the DNA found on belongings left behind matched with remains found at the crash sites

NO, you do know that the hijackers used fake and phoney documents to get tickets.
Well da of course they used fake docs.
Where are the remains of the highjackers why aren't they being held up for the world to see.

[shocker]

Please could you elaborate and show your proof. I think it would end a lot of bickering if you showed us what you have :)

Ultima? Any news on this yet? :)

[bryan]

You are assuming it was planted.

You are assuming it was planted

You are assuming they were under pressure.

I've made no such assumptions, liar.



I have posted sources that there were hijackers.

You said it was the DNA that proved there were hijackers...

No, i am stating that DNA of dead hijackers proves there were hijackers.

The DNA from the Armed Forces Lab proofs there were hijakers.


NO, i am stating DNA was proof there were hijackers.

[ultima1]

If the highjackers were vapourized or otherwise destroyed in the fires that brought down the towers what proof is there other than speculation that the highjackers were on the planes.

If you did any research you would know that NIST came up with new DNA testing for the WTC.

http://wtc.nist.gov/media/
May 27, 2003 Advances in DNA Analyses Help Identify 9/11 Victims

Where are the remains of the highjackers why aren't they being held up for the world to see.

Ask the Armed Forces DNA Lab.

[ultima1]

You said it was the DNA that proved there were hijackers...

Along with the other sources i posted.

[madmax]

If you did any research you would know that NIST came up with new DNA testing for the WTC.

http://wtc.nist.gov/media/
May 27, 2003 Advances in DNA Analyses Help Identify 9/11 Victims



Good web site:Page Not Available

The page you requested cannot be found at this time. It may be temporarily unavailable or it may have been removed or relocated.

Try using the search box below, or you can try the links above or to the left to find what you are looking for.
Search NIST
Is the result on every page.

[ultima1]

Good web site:Page Not Available

The page you requested cannot be found at this time. It may be temporarily unavailable or it may have been removed or relocated.

Yes, it looks like it was recently removed or changed. I will see if i can find the original information from the link.

[shocker]

Also i have lots of evidence of hijackers.


Third time of asking now, so Ultima, I would really like to see this evidence you speak of please. If you ignore my request yet again, I will assume you do not have the evidence and would like you to retract your above statement.

....however, if you do have evidence...then GREAT! :)

[bryan]

Third time of asking now, so Ultima, I would really like to see this evidence you speak of please. If you ignore my request yet again, I will assume you do not have the evidence and would like you to retract your above statement.

....however, if you do have evidence...then GREAT! :)

Maybe ultima1 has filed an FOIA request for CCTV footage of the hijackers at the airports and he's the only member of the public to have seen it.

[ultima1]

Third time of asking now, so Ultima, I would really like to see this evidence you speak of please.

I have already posted some.

[ultima1]

Maybe ultima1 has filed an FOIA request for CCTV footage of the hijackers at the airports and he's the only member of the public to have seen it.

I do not need a FOIA request for CCTV footage, it has already been discussed.

There is footage of them at the ticket counters and information that some of the hijackers were flagged and qustioned.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Originally Posted by ultima1
No, i am stating that DNA of dead hijackers proves there were hijackers.
:confused:
Does your DNA prove that you were a federal officer?

[donnagaily]

So I was looking up some of the victims on flight 93 on the SSDI 3 came back as dying on 9/11/01 most came up as feb 12 2009 and some didnt show up at all.
I also looked up the shooting in az for the judge and the little girl and neither is listed in the SSDI

[shocker]

I have already posted some.

Oh, where? I haven't seen any real proof yet, or did I miss something? I'm not flaming you, I simply want to see some definitive proof. Can you provide absolute proof of your claims please, I would be very interested in what you may be able to offer.

Thank you. :)

[donnagaily]

Oh, where? I haven't seen any real proof yet, or did I miss something? I'm not flaming you, I simply want to see some definitive proof. Can you provide absolute proof of your claims please, I would be very interested in what you may be able to offer.

Thank you. :)

go to google and put in ssdi and go to the social security death index,you can put in names and stuff

[iamcanadian0869]

:rolleyes:This has probably already been posted here, but it would also mean evidence was planted and NO planes were used...http://hoodwinkedatshanksville.blogspot.com/2007/03/back-in-black-boxes.html

[corsair]

I just attempted to read this thread and made it as far as Page 7 before my head felt like exploding. While I believe that there are many unanswered questions about the events leading up to and including the 9/11 attacks, I simply cannot take this conspiracy seriously. If you are going to claim that the terrorists who allegedly flew the planes are alive, please post some actual facts in direct relation to such claims or do not expect anyone to take you seriously. The burden of proof is not on us to prove they are dead, rather on the one claiming they are actually still alive. In other words, if I come on this forum claiming the moon is made of green cheese, the burden of proof is not on you to "prove" to me that it is made of rock. Capiche?

Furthermore, using fringe websites that peer-review their own paranoid claims and are not taken seriously by anyone in the scientific community is not going to win over many people to your line of thinking. There is no way in the digital age we live in that literally tens of thousands of conspirators from government officials to police officers to scientists to families of the victims themselves are going to keep something a secret for almost 10 years. Do you not think that at least one person "in the know" would have leaked something online to Wikileaks or Open Leaks about what would amount to the largest act of treason ever perpetrated in the history of the United States?

[ryanhodgson]

I just attempted to read this thread and made it as far as Page 7 before my head felt like exploding. While I believe that there are many unanswered questions about the events leading up to and including the 9/11 attacks, I simply cannot take this conspiracy seriously. If you are going to claim that the terrorists who allegedly flew the planes are alive, please post some actual facts in direct relation to such claims or do not expect anyone to take you seriously. The burden of proof is not on us to prove they are dead, rather on the one claiming they are actually still alive. In other words, if I come on this forum claiming the moon is made of green cheese, the burden of proof is not on you to "prove" to me that it is made of rock. Capiche?

Furthermore, using fringe websites that peer-review their own paranoid claims and are not taken seriously by anyone in the scientific community is not going to win over many people to your line of thinking. There is no way in the digital age we live in that literally tens of thousands of conspirators from government officials to police officers to scientists to families of the victims themselves are going to keep something a secret for almost 10 years. Do you not think that at least one person "in the know" would have leaked something online to Wikileaks or Open Leaks about what would amount to the largest act of treason ever perpetrated in the history of the United States?

Follow along, doing you own research isn't hard. Uncomfortable yes, hard, no.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1559151.stm

[uprising]

Follow along, doing you own research isn't hard. Uncomfortable yes, hard, no.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1559151.stm

And an interesting update- http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html

"In an effort to make this clearer, we have made one small change to the original story. Under the FBI picture of Waleed al Shehri we have added the words "A man called Waleed Al Shehri..." to make it as clear as possible that there was confusion over the identity. The rest of the story remains as it was in the archive as a record of the situation at the time.

We recently asked the FBI for a statement, and this is, as things stand, the closest thing we have to a definitive view: The FBI is confident that it has positively identified the nineteen hijackers responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Also, the 9/11 investigation was thoroughly reviewed by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States and the House and Senate Joint Inquiry. Neither of these reviews ever raised the issue of doubt about the identity of the nineteen hijackers."

All very fishy.

More on it here- http://911review.org/Wiki/HijackersAliveAndWell.shtml

[dogsmilk]

I just attempted to read this thread and made it as far as Page 7 before my head felt like exploding. While I believe that there are many unanswered questions about the events leading up to and including the 9/11 attacks, I simply cannot take this conspiracy seriously. If you are going to claim that the terrorists who allegedly flew the planes are alive, please post some actual facts in direct relation to such claims or do not expect anyone to take you seriously. The burden of proof is not on us to prove they are dead, rather on the one claiming they are actually still alive. In other words, if I come on this forum claiming the moon is made of green cheese, the burden of proof is not on you to "prove" to me that it is made of rock. Capiche?

Furthermore, using fringe websites that peer-review their own paranoid claims and are not taken seriously by anyone in the scientific community is not going to win over many people to your line of thinking. There is no way in the digital age we live in that literally tens of thousands of conspirators from government officials to police officers to scientists to families of the victims themselves are going to keep something a secret for almost 10 years. Do you not think that at least one person "in the know" would have leaked something online to Wikileaks or Open Leaks about what would amount to the largest act of treason ever perpetrated in the history of the United States?

Indeed. People saying the hijackers are alive use mainstream media reports that have frequently been retracted. All of a sudden the media is incapable of making a mistake and is 100% reliable if it says something you wish to believe.
Yet in all these years it apparently hasn't occurred to any of the big names in the truth movement to track any of these fellas down and film them being alive. Despite being able to tour different countries doing talks and shifting copies of their latest book, it seems these 'researchers' can't be arsed to do some old fashioned investigative journalism. If they're still alive...then where are they?

[dogsmilk]

Maybe ultima1 has filed an FOIA request for CCTV footage of the hijackers at the airports and he's the only member of the public to have seen it.

Jesus. I thought this was supposed to be the subject you, y'know, researched and shit.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5485376/ns/us_news-security/

[kahn2010]

theres a nice story on the BBC website about supposed hijackers been alive still.

One of the 'hijackers' is kept in guantanamo....

if you want me to link you, i can. PM me if you want the link.

[dogsmilk]

theres a nice story on the BBC website about supposed hijackers been alive still.

One of the 'hijackers' is kept in guantanamo....

if you want me to link you, i can. PM me if you want the link.

I think everyone has seen the BBC story already - it's famous in 911 circles.

If one of the hijackers was put in gitmo, there seems to be no reason why that is a matter for PMs - why not just post the information here?

[kahn2010]

I think everyone has seen the BBC story already - it's famous in 911 circles.

If one of the hijackers was put in gitmo, there seems to be no reason why that is a matter for PMs - why not just post the information here?

i have subscribed to too many threads

[bryan]

Jesus. I thought this was supposed to be the subject you, y'know, researched and shit.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5485376/ns/us_news-security/

Am I blind or is there no time stamp on it?

[ragnarok]

I'm still amazed that all these hijackers were using their own id.

[bryan]

There is no evidence that
Muslims committed the crime of 9/11
By Elias Davidsson


The identities of the nineteen individuals were based, according to one account, on what were
described as lucky discoveries made on 9/11 by the FBI. The first was the discovery of two pieces
of luggage allegedly owned by Mohammed Atta, the lead suspect, which were not loaded onto
flight AA11 at Boston Logan airport. The reason why these bags were not loaded onto the aircraft
was never disclosed. According to FBI Special Agent James M. Fitzgerald, who testified at the trial
of Zacarias Moussaoui, the connecting flight from Portland which brought Mohammed Atta and his
alleged co-hijacker Abdul Aziz Alomari to Boston, had ‘arrived too late for the luggage to be loaded
onto Flight 11’. According to the 9/11 Commission, however, the flight arrived on time at
approximately 6:45 A.M., one hour before the scheduled departure of Flight AA11. It has never
been revealed who was responsible for the “mistake” that ensured that the bags would not be loaded
onto the aircraft. The contents of the luggage enabled FBI agents, as claimed by them, to ‘swiftly
unravel the mystery of who carried out the suicide attacks and what motivated them’.

Among the items reportedly found in Atta’s bags were: a hand-held electronic flight computer, a
simulator procedures manual for Boeing 757 and 767 aircraft, a slide-rule flight calculator, a copy
of the Qur’an and a handwritten testament written in Arabic. According to later testimonies by
former FBI agents, the luggage also contained the identities of all 19 suspects involved in the four
hijackings, information on their plans, backgrounds, motives, al Qaeda connections and [a] folding
knife and pepper spray. According to FBI Special Agent Fitzgerald, Abdul Aziz Alomari’s passport
was also found in one the bags. Apparently this passport had been “manipulated in a fraudulent
manner”

http://www.aldeilis.net/english/attachments/1614_noevidencemuslims.pdf (pdf download)

[lightgiver]

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2279/houseofbush2g.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/houseofbush2g.jpg/)

The passenger list drawn up by the Saudi embassy for the flight out of Lexington, Kentucky, en route to London showed Prince Ahmed bin Salman at the top of the list, which included other high-ranking Saudis.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8114/houseofbush3a.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/houseofbush3a.jpg/)

Flight attendants remember Prince Ahmed bin Salman boarding the lavishly customized Boeing 727 in Lexington during the White House-sanctioned evacuation of Saudis that began just after 9/11. In May 2002, his racehorse War Emblem won the Kentucky Derby. During a controversial interrogation, an Al Qaeda operative said Ahmed served as an intermediary between Al Qaeda and the House of Saud and knew in advance that Al Qaeda would attack on 9/11. Not long afterward, the prince died mysteriously in Saudi Arabia of a heart attack at the age of forty-three.

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