I think it's time we forgave the Illuminati

[ambler1980]

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that hate attracts hate, fear attracts more fear, etc.

The illuminati are still just energy like us, and they deserve forgiveness, like us. No matter how much you hate the control structure, the only way it can fall is if we start to heal it.

I practice ho'oponopono...it's called cleaning, healing, by saying I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you, over and over on an issue and the issue is eventually healed.

A doctor healed an entire ward of mentally ill criminals using only this technique. I use it all the time and it works for me. So why can't it be used to heal our problems with the control structure?

So let's do it. All you have to do is type "I forgive the illuminati"...even if you don't mean it. If you don't have anything good to say, please don't respond, this is a healing thread. If you don't want to say it, then don't respond at all...there are hundreds of other threads for you to spread negativity.

But if you want to respond, please respond with forgiveness first, then say something else if you want to say it.

[verndewd]

there is power in forgiveness. In the end they wont be able to get away with such deceptions so it is good to approach that time with grace.

[freereality]

For forgiveness to occur an admission of wrongdoing has to be made. Then once an admission of wrongdoing is made, the admittor takes a vow to not wrong the individual/group again, and in the case you mention, in its massive scope and complexity of it all should actually make retribution to society; compensation if you will. The release of free energy, the release of technology that wouldn't keep us slaving. Etc.

This sequence should occur before an act of forvingness should take place, because an act of forgiveness requires that the Illuminati and Common man are now at the same level in reality's pecking order.

[verndewd]

For forgiveness to occur an admission of wrongdoing has to be made. Then once an admission of wrongdoing is made, the admittor takes a vow to not wrong the individual/group again, and in the case you mention, in its massive scope and complexity of it all should actually make retribution to society; compensation if you will. The release of free energy, the release of technology that wouldn't keep us slaving. Etc.

This sequence should occur before an act of forvingness should take place, because an act of forgiveness requires that the Illuminati and Common man are now at the same level in reality's pecking order.

there is no higher or lower level, just the perception of it. I think what the OP means is that even they are blinded and low level energies and that we need to approach with forgiving minds and hearts and allow them to chose the path they take from there.

Its not auto forgiveness its offering .

[vladmir]

The other side is, will they be able to forgive themselves for what the have done to the world out of superhuman blackhole of greed,
when they wake up and see what a giant parasite they have become?

It is my understanding that its not that we have a soul,
but rather the Soul has us as an incarnation.
So, even if i in my 'personality' of my present incarnation,
hypnotize myself to believe that i have completely forgiven myself,
my Soul knows all, and it is a immortal fragment of the Prime Cause and is
known to be very exacting in making the personality reap what it has sown.

[truestrength]

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that hate attracts hate, fear attracts more fear, etc.

The illuminati are still just energy like us, and they deserve forgiveness, like us. No matter how much you hate the control structure, the only way it can fall is if we start to heal it.

I practice ho'oponopono...it's called cleaning, healing, by saying I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you, over and over on an issue and the issue is eventually healed.

A doctor healed an entire ward of mentally ill criminals using only this technique. I use it all the time and it works for me. So why can't it be used to heal our problems with the control structure?

So let's do it. All you have to do is type "I forgive the illuminati"...even if you don't mean it. If you don't have anything good to say, please don't respond, this is a healing thread. If you don't want to say it, then don't respond at all...there are hundreds of other threads for you to spread negativity.

But if you want to respond, please respond with forgiveness first, then say something else if you want to say it.

Sure.

Lets all unite with the Illuminati, stand around in a circle and hold hands and say, "I love you PTB. I love being your slave... but I'm not a slave anymore because I love and forgive you!"

And then later on, they can go back underground and piss themselves laughing about how they tricked us with their love and light, New Age programming.

[ambler1980]

Thanks everyone for doing exactly the opposite of what I asked. I'm not asking much, just one thing in one thread, out of the hundreds you have and will visit during your time here. One thing. Please? PLEASE?

But I forgive you.

[ambler1980]

New Age programming.

Since when is forgiveness "new age"? It's been around since the beginning of time. When you forgive, you take your power back. When you don't forgive, you're always blaming something, and therefore always giving it power. It's the entire basis of the control structure...how and why it operates. Surely by being on this forum you don't like the control structure. So why blow off forgiveness as some new age programming? You yourself are being programmed into believe there's nothing of value in "new age" concepts...god I hate that term. Don't let the "new age" scare you off...like everything it has a bit of truth and a bit of distortion...forgiveness itself has nothing to do with the "new age".

[verndewd]

Thanks everyone for doing exactly the opposite of what I asked. I'm not asking much, just one thing in one thread, out of the hundreds you have and will visit during your time here. One thing. Please? PLEASE?

But I forgive you.

I forgive anyone 's ignorance, to forgive their willing part in it requires admission and humility. I will not feed the ego of these usurpers of consciusness because you decided to have a novel itch to scratch.

[ambler1980]

Forgiving the trespasses of a person (or people) is one thing, but to take on the role of "doormat" in a seemingly unchanging play of certain parties continued wrong-doings with NO intentions of ceasing their transgressions..... No dice my friend!!

Please listen to me very carefully. I did not say become a "doormat"...by forgiving someone you are not a doormat, you're merely taking your power back, so that you can't be manipulated anymore. By always holding a grudge, you are feeding that anger...by feeding that anger, like pouring gasoline on a fire to put it out, you're allowing more of it in. By continually being angry at "them" you're making yourself a doormat...that's whole basis of the control structure!

[ambler1980]

I forgive anyone 's ignorance, to forgive their willing part in it requires admission and humility. I will not feed the ego of these userpers of consciusness because you decided to have a novel itch to scratch.

That's fine, then please stop posting like I asked in the beginning.

[verndewd]

just one question. What do you hope to achieve by letting crooks off the hook with no questions asked?

[ambler1980]

just one question. What do you hope to achieve by letting crooks off the hook with no questions asked?

Where in my original post did I say that? Show me please. You can't, because I didn't say it. It's amazing how people read what's not there by bringing their beliefs into the situation...this is what I said:

the only way it can fall is if we start to heal it.

It's a process...that process will include them being held accountable for their actions, eventually, but that will never happen if we continue to feed the machine with hate and grudges. When someone forgives a guy on death row, he still gets the gas chamber, they've just unshackled themselves from his control by forgiving him. He did what he did, it's over...holding grudges doesn't change what happened, it only destroys your soul as fast as his.

[ambler1980]

Yet I don't hold a grudge or choke on bitter hatred for them. I "let go and let God". No matter what they choose to do, the won't outrun their own undoing nor will they escape what the Creator has for them.

How can you say "let go and let God" when you don't even practice forgiveness"? Isn't that what God is about? No one is separate...how can you judge something that's a part of you? We are all one infinite awareness having an experience, no matter how hard you try and deny it, we're connected to them. Once we start to forgive, the control structure will begin to fall because we're no longer participating, as they want you in fear, stress, anger, and judgment. Don't people get it? The more you focus on something, the more you feed it, and the more it continues to get stronger and affect you. Focusing on forgiveness starts the process of healing, which includes people being held accountable...that is part of the healing process. I am not "giving them a free pass".

[verndewd]

well to be honest I forgave them a while ago, since the three visions I had. They honestly think they are doing whats best and cannot see how blind they are. If they saw that giving in to the current movement wasnt losing anything but gaining everything , they would make the right choice, some wouldnt but some would.

they are as blind as any of us. And what you say is true a condemned man is condemned so long as he condemns himself. That isnt our worry.

[ambler1980]

well to be honest I forgave them a while ago,

Cool.

[fairyelfdog]

Okay, ambler, I understand you are right. Our minds may argue ad infinity but the fact is: we are them, we are creating this so the one we have to forgive is ourself and everything that happens is our responsibility. All against arguments in this thread has been built on separation. I've heard them all. Over and over and over. People are so wrapped up in complication and categories we can't see how easy it is and has always been. The voice is always arguing. But as for forgiving I'm still not sure I can. What about the victim role? Doesn't it need to be forgiven? I feel I'd rather start there, with the children, when they are strong enough, maybe they can forgive... but I just don't know. I've realised my dreams are violent and unconscious. I am them. It's very difficult to deal with and I'm feeling confused right now.

[s00perdr4g00n]

I think the OP is correct. The only way we can deal with them, not forgive, but show compassion for them, as we are all just one consciousness.

Other posters statements are correct, they are just as helpless as everyone else. Its all religion and dogma keeping people seperate. Their belief system is the opposite spectrum of yours ambler. You believe by peace and love harmonies we will advance, on the other hand they have another approach for increasing vibrations.

[fairyelfdog]

I think the OP is correct. The only way we can deal with them, not forgive, but show compassion for them, as we are all just one consciousness.

Other posters statements are correct, they are just as helpless as everyone else. Its all religion and dogma keeping people seperate. Their belief system is the opposite spectrum of yours ambler. You believe by peace and love harmonies we will advance, on the other hand they have another approach for increasing vibrations.

Really? Which is?

[ambler1980]

Well this reality is nothing but a hollographic projection of what's going inside us...if there is a mass control system it means on some level the masses of humanity are allowing it...it's the victim mentality, "they did it to us, it's their fault, I have no power", blah blah blah...it's the same people who blame their parents for how screwed up they are. You made your own choices. You have your own subconscious programs running, and you can change them at any time. The more you keep blaming someone for your problems, the more power they have. As soon as you forgive the illunminati you're really forgiving yourself and they can't affect you anymore...the more people who do that, the hundreth monkey effect kicks in at some point and it's all over. You don't have to believe it, but what's the point in holding a grudge? That's like drinking poison to kill someone else.

[s00perdr4g00n]

Really? Which is?

Details i will not fully impart. Consisting of rituals, sacrifices, and other means. Also, decreasing the population on what they believe to be an overpopulated planet.

[s00perdr4g00n]

Well this reality is nothing but a hollographic projection of what's going inside us...if there is a mass control system it means on some level the masses of humanity are allowing it...it's the victim mentality, "they did it to us, it's their fault, I have no power", blah blah blah...it's the same people who blame their parents for how screwed up they are. You made your own choices. You have your own subconscious programs running, and you can change them at any time. The more you keep blaming someone for your problems, the more power they have. As soon as you forgive the illunminati you're really forgiving yourself and they can't affect you anymore...the more people who do that, the hundreth monkey effect kicks in at some point and it's all over. You don't have to believe it, but what's the point in holding a grudge? That's like drinking poison to kill someone else.

Eloquently spoken. Correct you are.

Has anyone heard of the domino effect?

[fairyelfdog]

Details i will not fully impart. Consisting of rituals, sacrifices, and other means. Also, decreasing the population on what they believe to be an overpopulated planet.

Oh yes, well I know that already. :(

[s00perdr4g00n]

Youve asked, Ive divulge what I can. Sorry more cannot be disclosed by me.

edit: Faerie - Great signature, I like it!

[curtaincat]

just one question. What do you hope to achieve by letting crooks off the hook with no questions asked?

ambler answered it in post #20

have a read...

btw, u know i put a link in about that...hopo stuff, :)

have u got a better one, ... there are a lot... or else i can put that one in again.


well, i will do it now... just in case ...

http://www.idreamcatcher.com/hooponopono/

so there it is. I am trying it... it might take a while...



To all the others that posted about For-Give-ness... It is said that forgiveness ... will be you giving back to yourself what you lost through not being able to forgive.

You will only ever hurt yourself...

Please look at what ambler said.

"I love you, i am sorry, please forgive me, thankyou"
Imagine if the whole world said that to everyone that they thought had stuffed them around.. and it doesn't matter if u said the words. You can pretend that they are saying them to you. And to the whole world.

I think that is what I have got from this hoop stuff, and from ambler

Wouldn't it be nice... who doesn't want a nice world and life.


;):D

Who is game to try... surely it works better than evil..

[s00perdr4g00n]

I forgive you illuminati, please forgive me and let me share my love with you.
Thank you! :D

[verndewd]

ambler answered it in post #20

have a read...

btw, u know i put a link in about that...hopo stuff, :)

have u got a better one, ... there are a lot... or else i can put that one in again.


well, i will do it now... just in case ...

http://www.idreamcatcher.com/hooponopono/

so there it is. I am trying it... it might take a while...



To all the others that posted about For-Give-ness... It is said that forgiveness ... will be you giving back to yourself what you lost through not being able to forgive.

You will only ever hurt yourself...

Please look at what ambler said.

"I love you, i am sorry, please forgive me, thankyou"
Imagine if the whole world said that to everyone that they thought had stuffed them around.. and it doesn't matter if u said the words. You can pretend that they are saying them to you. And to the whole world.

I think that is what I have got from this hoop stuff, and from ambler

Wouldn't it be nice... who doesn't want a nice world and life.


;):D

Who is game to try... surely it works better than evil..

My question was post 12

check check , is this mic on?

[gaias child]

Ambler, The concept of forgiving the illuminati is a good one in theory, and forgiving others for minor deeds is easy, I can do that easy,but I'm not convinced forgiveness is truly possible if you have been personally affected.

Do you have children? Have you been affected personally by any of the below as I have.

If your child was born with horrendous deformities caused by toxic waste in Iraq ie depleted uranium or poisoned by MMR or DPT or other vaccination and left disabled or your child was tortured and murdered another way. Would you truly hand on heart be able to forgive the perpetrator, and have no anger and only love.?

Please look at the pics of the deformities on children from depleted uranium before you answer

http://www.answering-christianity.com/iraqi_torture.htm

[curtaincat]

Ambler, The concept of forgiving the illuminati is a good one in theory, and forgiving others for minor deeds is easy, I can do that easy,but I'm not convinced forgiveness is truly possible if you have been personally affected.

Do you have children? Have you been affected personally by any of the below as I have.

If your child was born with horrendous deformities caused by toxic waste in Iraq ie depleted uranium or poisoned by MMR or DPT or other vaccination and left disabled or your child was tortured and murdered another way. Would you truly hand on heart be able to forgive the perpetrator, and have no anger and only love.?

Please look at the pics of the deformities on children from depleted uranium before you answer

http://www.answering-christianity.com/iraqi_torture.htm



just stop having children... then you can't put your guilty conciance onto them. Most people like you like to give other people the guilt trip..

please... look at the children... If you did not have them,... then... WHAT are you gonna fall back on?

Stop saying it is for the children.... that is a fools game. It means you cannot be bothered to ever ever ever ever ever LOOK at Yourself.

Maybe that is why people keep breeding and sprogging... to avoid actually LOOKING at themself?

Are You Afraid to see your own self.... your own soul?

That is very sad for you... and even worse for your sprogs. offsprings.


Wake UP... and find who or what you are.

Remember who you are....

The only thing to do is Remember who you are... and stop bringing offspring to this poor old planet.

there is a song called:

Keep on smiling.

The earth has enuff to do.. without us stuffing it around. And mother earth is now weeping like crazy. Have you not seen the leaking of her crazy tears?

[chadwick]

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that hate attracts hate, fear attracts more fear, etc.

The illuminati are still just energy like us, and they deserve forgiveness, like us. No matter how much you hate the control structure, the only way it can fall is if we start to heal it.

I practice ho'oponopono...it's called cleaning, healing, by saying I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you, over and over on an issue and the issue is eventually healed.

A doctor healed an entire ward of mentally ill criminals using only this technique. I use it all the time and it works for me. So why can't it be used to heal our problems with the control structure?

So let's do it. All you have to do is type "I forgive the illuminati"...even if you don't mean it. If you don't have anything good to say, please don't respond, this is a healing thread. If you don't want to say it, then don't respond at all...there are hundreds of other threads for you to spread negativity.

But if you want to respond, please respond with forgiveness first, then say something else if you want to say it.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

[piskavac]

It is my understanding that its not that we have a soul,
but rather the Soul has us as an incarnation.


Neither of that. You are soul, and you wrap your body around yourself.

[lobuk]

I am all for Forgiveness but only when the time is right and the situation has changed. Its very hard to forgive when the disgusting attrocities are continuing and accelerating.

The things that are going on in this world are beyond human comprehension at times.

Its defo better to not hate them because that just feeds them.

They will get forgiveness when they have answered for their attrocities and are no longer destroying the world and our fellow human beings.

[curtaincat]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

I also think sleeping is groovy, lol


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


that is your way, so you go for it, keep yourself and your world asleep.

It is better than fighting...

If you ever wake up, and get the strength to help yourself, try hoopono stuff..

If you wanna help... just try what ambler said.

:D

[vladmir]

Neither of that. You are soul, and you wrap your body around you.
Yeah, like you would wrap an overcoat, but different, because this overcoat can only be shed at death, hence an incarnation.

[s00perdr4g00n]

How do I get out of my body? I want to be free!

[piskavac]

How do I get out of my body? I want to be free!

Vhen that time comes, you will sorry of not staying inside.

[s00perdr4g00n]

Why is that pisk?

[piskavac]

Why is that pisk?

Because Everyone has fear of death.

[s00perdr4g00n]

Death is a part of life, there is nothing to fear.

[piskavac]

Death is a part of life, there is nothing to fear.

Yes. When somebody is born in new incarnation; for him/her it is painiest experience than death.

Although the birth and the death are two side of coin.

[marpat]

For forgiveness to occur an admission of wrongdoing has to be made. Then once an admission of wrongdoing is made, the admittor takes a vow to not wrong the individual/group again, and in the case you mention, in its massive scope and complexity of it all should actually make retribution to society; compensation if you will. The release of free energy, the release of technology that wouldn't keep us slaving. Etc.

This sequence should occur before an act of forvingness should take place, because an act of forgiveness requires that the Illuminati and Common man are now at the same level in reality's pecking order.

Well why not show them compassion for their ignorance? this does not require them to acknowledge anything.

[makemyday]

We can forgive ourselves for letting them to overpower us with hatred, lust and other sins, but to them... it's just not their nature. Inhuman nature. If good powers exist in universe, so must evil powers exist. There must be a balance everywhere. We just need to shake them off forever and let them be.

[marpat]

We can forgive ourselves for letting them to overpower us with hatred, lust and other sins, but to them... it's just not their nature. Inhuman nature. If good powers exist in universe, so must evil powers exist. There must be a balance everywhere. We just need to shake them off forever and let them be.

Well I recall David Icke claming that there are positive entities in the universe that would help us if we let them yet nobody really seems to discuss this but focus on being ruled by reptilians. I dont understand why David seems to give so little time and attention to these helpers, especially if their intervention could be critical.

[consciousness]

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that hate attracts hate, fear attracts more fear, etc.

The illuminati are still just energy like us, and they deserve forgiveness, like us. No matter how much you hate the control structure, the only way it can fall is if we start to heal it.

I practice ho'oponopono...it's called cleaning, healing, by saying I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you, over and over on an issue and the issue is eventually healed.

A doctor healed an entire ward of mentally ill criminals using only this technique. I use it all the time and it works for me. So why can't it be used to heal our problems with the control structure?

So let's do it. All you have to do is type "I forgive the illuminati"...even if you don't mean it. If you don't have anything good to say, please don't respond, this is a healing thread. If you don't want to say it, then don't respond at all...there are hundreds of other threads for you to spread negativity.

But if you want to respond, please respond with forgiveness first, then say something else if you want to say it.

Excellent idea!
Forgiveness is one of the fundamental laws of the universe. forgiveness is healing.

[filinfinland]

Excellent idea!
Forgiveness is one of the fundamental laws of the universe. forgiveness is healing.

You are absolutely right. Forgiveness is the only way to break out of the cycle of karma. We are one, not just with the people whose qualities we admire, but with all consciousness. We are one, you, me, the bush family, the reptilians, the grays, the pilots dropping bombs on women and children, we are one.

They are our shadow side, we will never be whole until we can love them, not for what they do, but for who they are. In the movie "the dark crystal", the uru and the skeksis were opposing aspects of the same being. Only when they united could they become the beings of light which was their true identity, it is the same for us.

Complaining that they kill us is foolishness, we are immortal consciousness, what has been killed? how can we believe that we are the creators of our own reality and then blame someone else if we don't like our experience. Either we plan our lives or we don't. If we do, then there is no-one to blame, nothing has been done "to" us.

We are consciousness, our evolution spans infinite universes, we are immortal.

[lee13]

No forgiving from me I'm afraid, Time to fight for your lives . Party time over

[ambler1980]

No forgiving from me I'm afraid, Time to fight for your lives . Party time over

Fight for your life and you will always attract situations where you need to be ready to fight. The whole point of "time" is a mirror, a continual feedback loop of what we're grasping with inside...once you move on by learning from a situation, the situation changes...if you're always ready to fight, then your life will one of constant strife because that's the feedback loop...like a broken record.

Do what you want, but doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same result is the definition of insanity.

[dusthead]

Death is a part of life, there is nothing to fear.

Yes there is! There is a lot to fear!

People on this forum seem to be OK with getting mowed down by a bus in the next 5 minutes. That is irrational for WAY too many reasons to list here.

Simple facts:

Life is the sum of everything you presently experience - You may be awake, asleep or in a coma, but that's about it. Life doesn't last long in the general scheme of things. Use your time wisely. Nobody can prove what happens when you die. If they say they can they are lying.

Ergo: Life has to get EXTREMELY bad for death to be any kind of alternative. We simply cannot prove what happens when we die. Maybe there is a heaven, maybe there is a hell, maybe we just STOP. Point is - this could be your only chance to experience anything at all. Don't waste it and don't underestimate it either. Life is precious and wonderful if you know how to use it. It's true that some people are oppressed and abused, but you can't help them if you are dead.

Vitually all life strives to survive and avoids death for a reason.

[lee13]

Fight for your life and you will always attract situations where you need to be ready to fight. The whole point of "time" is a mirror, a continual feedback loop of what we're grasping with inside...once you move on by learning from a situation, the situation changes...if you're always ready to fight, then your life will one of constant strife because that's the feedback loop...like a broken record.

Do what you want, but doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same result is the definition of insanity.
Wow that's a bit heavy. With respect and in my opinion I think its time to walk the walk.

[ambler1980]

Yes there is! There is a lot to fear!

People on this forum seem to be OK with getting mowed down by a bus in the next 5 minutes. That is irrational for WAY too many reasons to list here.

Simple facts:

Life is the sum of everything you presently experience - You may be awake, asleep or in a coma, but that's about it. Life doesn't last long in the general scheme of things. Use your time wisely. Nobody can prove what happens when you die. If they say they can they are lying.

Ergo: Life has to get EXTREMELY bad for death to be any kind of alternative. We simply cannot prove what happens when we die. Maybe there is a heaven, maybe there is a hell, maybe we just STOP. Point is - this could be your only chance to experience anything at all. Don't waste it and don't underestimate it either. Life is precious and wonderful if you know how to use it. It's true that some people are oppressed and abused, but you can't help them if you are dead.

Vitually all life strives to survive and avoids death for a reason.

People who are not afraid of death are not living life carelessly, and are not going through life "wasting" it. Quite the opposite...people who are afraid of death end up wasting life because the fear is guiding their choices. Like being afraid of flying, you miss the chance to see the world. Or being afraid of going to doctor because he might reveal you have a life threatening illeness, you increase your chances of bad health. Or to pull a quote from the movie HEAT:

Albert: "Man, I'll get killed for telling you that!"
Vincent (Pacino): "Could get killed walkin' your doggie!"

You could die just as easily and quickly walking your dog down the street (heart attack, stroke, trip and fall and crack your head, hit by a speeding car, etc) as in any other "real" dangerous situation. So what is the point of being afraid of death? Whatever happens after death happens, being afraid of it just makes your life more miserable, so what's the point?

People who are not afraid of death do not have a "death wish", it's not that they're okay with getting "mowed down by a bus in the next five minutes", it's that they don't look for reasons to be afraid of irrational things that someone who IS afraid of death would be paranoid about...and those people inevitably end up attracting the very situations they're afraid of.

You seem to have a total misunderstanding of this issue.

[dusthead]

People who are not afraid of death are not living life carelessly, and are not going through life "wasting" it. Quite the opposite...people who are afraid of death end up wasting life because the fear is guiding their choices. Like being afraid of flying, you miss the chance to see the world. Or being afraid of going to doctor because he might reveal you have a life threatening illeness, you increase your chances of bad health. Or to pull a quote from the movie HEAT:

Albert: "Man, I'll get killed for telling you that!"
Vincent (Pacino): "Could get killed walkin' your doggie!"

You could die just as easily and quickly walking your dog down the street (heart attack, stroke, trip and fall and crack your head, hit by a speeding car, etc) as in any other "real" dangerous situation. So what is the point of being afraid of death? Whatever happens after death happens, being afraid of it just makes your life more miserable, so what's the point?

People who are not afraid of death do not have a "death wish", it's not that they're okay with getting "mowed down by a bus in the next five minutes", it's that they don't look for reasons to be afraid of irrational things that someone who IS afraid of death would be paranoid about...and those people inevitably end up attracting the very situations they're afraid of.

You seem to have a total misunderstanding of this issue.

I'm fairly sure I don't have a total misunderstanding. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Death is what it is. It's the end of life.

Fearing death does not lead to a miserable life unless we develop a morbid fixation about the issue. It's just a basic natural instinct that means we have a desire to stay alive. It means not shooting yourself in the face, eating rat poison, setting fire to your own head or jumping in cages with ferocious lions at the zoo. It's why small animals are generally good at scarpering from large predators.

Not fearing death may mean you think twice before stepping out of the way of that moving train, because hey! why not?!

I would bet an awful lot of money on these 'I'm not afraid of death' people changing their tune if they were on death row on the day they get electrocuted.

Or are we merely talking about different things?

Is this a spiritual discussion or a philosophical one?

[ambler1980]

Not fearing death may mean you think twice before stepping out of the way of that moving train, because hey! why not?!

And this is where you're confused. That would be suicide, and people who are not afraid of death are not suicidal people. You seem to not be able to tell the difference between suicidal and not fearing death. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Suicidal people are depressed and feel they have nothing to live for...they ARRANGE their death.

People who don't fear death are liberated...and they would not stand in front of a moving train, that's ridiculous and total hyperbole.

[dusthead]

And this is where you're confused. That would be suicide, and people who are not afraid of death are not suicidal people. You seem to not be able to tell the difference between suicidal and not fearing death. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Suicidal people are depressed and feel they have nothing to live for...they ARRANGE their death.

People who don't fear death are liberated...and they would not stand in front of a moving train, that's ridiculous and total hyperbole.

Maybe you would like to explain why someone with no fear of death would move out of the way of a moving train?

[ambler1980]

Maybe you would like to explain why someone with no fear of death would move out of the way of a moving train?

Because they don't have a death wish.

[filinfinland]

Maybe you would like to explain why someone with no fear of death would move out of the way of a moving train?

I have no fear of death at all having experienced it a couple of times, getting out of the way of a moving train is more to do with not being particularly fond of pain. Getting smashed to bits fucking hurts. It would only hurt for a few moments, but they would be the longest moments of your life.

[dusthead]

Because they don't have a death wish.

But they obviously fear death to some extent or they wouldn't move would they?

[ambler1980]

But they obviously fear death to some extent or they wouldn't move would they?

No, it means they want to live...but if they MUST die in a circumstance where they can't prevent it, they can accept that. They don't HAVE to get hit by the train, so they step out of the way. How is this difficult to understand? You're trolling at this point.

[seanx]

Yes there is! There is a lot to fear!

People on this forum seem to be OK with getting mowed down by a bus in the next 5 minutes. That is irrational for WAY too many reasons to list here.

Simple facts:

Life is the sum of everything you presently experience - You may be awake, asleep or in a coma, but that's about it. Life doesn't last long in the general scheme of things. Use your time wisely. Nobody can prove what happens when you die. If they say they can they are lying.

Ergo: Life has to get EXTREMELY bad for death to be any kind of alternative. We simply cannot prove what happens when we die. Maybe there is a heaven, maybe there is a hell, maybe we just STOP. Point is - this could be your only chance to experience anything at all. Don't waste it and don't underestimate it either. Life is precious and wonderful if you know how to use it. It's true that some people are oppressed and abused, but you can't help them if you are dead.

Vitually all life strives to survive and avoids death for a reason.

The whole purpose of the illuminati control structure is to make us FEAR
DEATH.

That's where they get all their power from.

if people knew - really knew they were eternal consciousness -the
illuminati would have no hold over you.

How could they threaten you?

Think about it.

[seanx]

You are absolutely right. Forgiveness is the only way to break out of the cycle of karma. We are one, not just with the people whose qualities we admire, but with all consciousness. We are one, you, me, the bush family, the reptilians, the grays, the pilots dropping bombs on women and children, we are one.

They are our shadow side, we will never be whole until we can love them, not for what they do, but for who they are. In the movie "the dark crystal", the uru and the skeksis were opposing aspects of the same being. Only when they united could they become the beings of light which was their true identity, it is the same for us.

Complaining that they kill us is foolishness, we are immortal consciousness, what has been killed? how can we believe that we are the creators of our own reality and then blame someone else if we don't like our experience. Either we plan our lives or we don't. If we do, then there is no-one to blame, nothing has been done "to" us.

We are consciousness, our evolution spans infinite universes, we are immortal.

Great post.

[seanx]

Originally Posted by ambler1980
If there's one thing I've learned, it's that hate attracts hate, fear attracts more fear, etc.

The illuminati are still just energy like us, and they deserve forgiveness, like us. No matter how much you hate the control structure, the only way it can fall is if we start to heal it.

I practice ho'oponopono...it's called cleaning, healing, by saying I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you, over and over on an issue and the issue is eventually healed.

A doctor healed an entire ward of mentally ill criminals using only this technique. I use it all the time and it works for me. So why can't it be used to heal our problems with the control structure?

So let's do it. All you have to do is type "I forgive the illuminati"...even if you don't mean it. If you don't have anything good to say, please don't respond, this is a healing thread. If you don't want to say it, then don't respond at all...there are hundreds of other threads for you to spread negativity.

But if you want to respond, please respond with forgiveness first, then say something else if you want to say it.

Marvellous post.

[_tzupidity]

I don't see the need to forgive them. Everyone is fulfilling their role and depending what side you're on at any given moment, diferent people will be 'right' and 'wrong'. Everything just 'is'. I'm here to experience, not judge.

That doesn't mean that I'll let them put me on a cattle train and take me to a work camp though. There's one thing on which I agree with the Satanist guy, Anton LaVey. It's one of his 'rules'. If someone intends to harms you, give them one chance to stop. If they don't, destroy them. I read it in one of his books when I was about 15 and to this day I still think it's a fair rule for a peaceful society. He also reccomended masturbation in public places as part of 'lycanthropy' and I can happily report that I gave that a miss.

Before you can forgive someone, you have to judge them worthy of forgiveness. Judging is bad mmkay?

[dusthead]

No, it means they want to live...but if they MUST die in a circumstance where they can't prevent it, they can accept that. They don't HAVE to get hit by the train, so they step out of the way. How is this difficult to understand? You're trolling at this point.

No trolling at all. Sorry if you feel that way.

Fear would be a factor. Otherwise there would be nothing to lose.

Then again, neither of us knows for sure what death is. So the argument is a bit of stale-mate.

I think that's about as far as we will get to an agreement.

[seanx]

No trolling at all. Sorry if you feel that way.

Fear would be a factor. Otherwise there would be nothing to lose.

Then again, neither of us knows for sure what death is.
.

Where did you get that idea from?

[ambler1980]

neither of us knows for sure what death is

How do you know for sure that your girlfriend loves you? You can't. All you can do is notice her behavior around you and put together a reasonable conclusion based on the evidence.

No one knows anything for sure, they merely BELIEVE things to be true based on evidence. Therefore death can reasonably be assumed to be merely a transition to another sphere of consciousness based on the mountain of evidence supporting that theory.

[ambler1980]

Before you can forgive someone, you have to judge them worthy of forgiveness. Judging is bad mmkay?

You've already judged them by disagreeing with what they're doing. If someone enslaves you, and you don't like them for doing that, and you think they're bad for doing it...how is that not a judgement call? I'd say the logic you're using is flawed.

I'm not trying to convince you to forgive them, I'm pointing out the logical fallacy of your statement.

[dusthead]

How do you know for sure that your girlfriend loves you? You can't. All you can do is notice her behavior around you and put together a reasonable conclusion based on the evidence.

No one knows anything for sure, they merely BELIEVE things to be true based on evidence. Therefore death can reasonably be assumed to be merely a transition to another sphere of consciousness based on the mountain of evidence supporting that theory.

I don't know any dead people and neither do you.

If anyone had solved the mystery of what happens to us when we die the world would be a very different place.

But now we are debating what death is.

Whilst this would be an interesting philosophical debate I fear it's also a stale-mate (as is all philosophy).

Here are a couple of quotes which probably relate to what we've been discussing and at least put a humorous slant on the conversation -

And if anyone can show me one example in the history of the world of a single spiritual or religious person who has been able to show either empirically or logically the existence of a higher power which has any consciousness or interest in the human race or ability to punish or reward humans for their moral choices or that there is any reason other than fear to believe in any version of an afterlife

I'll give you my piano, one of my legs, and my wife

- Tim Minchin

I'm not afraid of death I just don't want to be there when it happens

- Woody Allen

[_tzupidity]

You've already judged them by disagreeing with what they're doing. If someone enslaves you, and you don't like them for doing that, and you think they're bad for doing it...how is that not a judgement call? I'd say the logic you're using is flawed.

I'm not trying to convince you to forgive them, I'm pointing out the logical fallacy of your statement.

I disagree. If someone enslaved me then it's the enslavement that I don't like. Once I'm free from the enslavement I cease to care about it. Judging is going one step further. You've enslaved me, therefore I hate you, too and I will do what I can to eradicate you. To me, that is still enslavement because you are then emotionally invested in the situation and still a part of it.

You can tell by the 'ands' you had to add to your sentence.

If someone enslaves you, and you don't like them for doing that, and you think they're bad for doing it

See? You've had to do two extra things to get to judgement. You could just free yourself and move on =]

[ambler1980]

I don't know any dead people and neither do you.

If anyone had solved the mystery of what happens to us when we die the world would be a very different place.

But now we are debating what death is.


There is no death really... it's defined as the termination of life, when in fact life doesn't cease after biological functions are done and there is a mountain of evidence, as I said in my last post that you do not cease to exist when your body gives out. You take that evidence and believe what you want.

It's obvious we're debating in different zip codes so to speak, so I'm going to gracefully bow out now. Have a good one.

[ambler1980]

If someone enslaved me then it's the enslavement that I don't like. Once I'm free from the enslavement I cease to care about it.

You can never be free of enslavement as long as you hold a grudge, because they've still got you in a mental prison...hence forgiveness is the only way to totally get rid of the chains.

Thanks for proving my point.

[curtaincat]

You can never be free of enslavement as long as you hold a grudge, because they've still got you in a mental prison...hence forgiveness is the only way to totally get rid of the chains.

Thanks for proving my point.

Very True... when will they ever learn....


Peace and love :)

i am still working on that, btw...

[_tzupidity]

You can never be free of enslavement as long as you hold a grudge, because they've still got you in a mental prison...hence forgiveness is the only way to totally get rid of the chains.

Thanks for proving my point.

I'm not happy about having to do this, but you've required me to use a Clichéd Football Analogy. Namely: Moving the goalposts.

Where did the grudge come from? I said that when I left enslavement then I'd cease to care about it. That's kind of the opposite of holding a grudge. You've read what I said then added the grudge yourself to make it so I'm 'wrong' even when I've stated I don't care. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

If you need to keep 'Moving the goalposts' to support your belief then I'd suggest you question why you believe it. If it makes you feel any better, I forgive you. We are all one after all. :D

[decode reality]

Let's say there's a serial killer going around with complete and utter disregard for life. The person needs to be caught, punished and (if possible) rehabilitated.
When you look at the individual's life, you may realise what made them do what they did.

I can understand and forgive the kids in my neighbourhood selling crack to other youths. The person is misguided and has taken on board negative messages from the culture around them. The culture and circumstances that created that mentality is the REAL criminal. But forgiveness alone won't work.

It's commendable to forgive. At the same time, it's important to understand how deeply entrenched and committed they are to continuing what they're doing. You can forgive but at the same time still take a firm stance and expose what the illuminati are doing.

How does the song go: " Love is all is alright....but you've left it a little too late....love is all is alright....but you've got to find a little more hate"

[ambler1980]

I said that when I left enslavement then I'd cease to care about it.

I guess I misread your post...my apologies.

[ambler1980]

Let's say there's a serial killer going around with complete and utter disregard for life. The person needs to be caught, punished and (if possible) rehabilitated.
When you look at the individual's life, you may realise what made them do what they did.

I can understand and forgive the kids in my neighbourhood selling crack to other youths. The person is misguided and has taken on board negative messages from the culture around them. The culture and circumstances that created that mentality is the REAL criminal. But forgiveness alone won't work.

It's commendable to forgive. At the same time, it's important to understand how deeply entrenched and committed they are to continuing what they're doing. You can forgive but at the same time still take a firm stance and expose what the illuminati are doing.

How does the song go: " Love is all is alright....but you've left it a little too late....love is all is alright....but you've got to find a little more hate"

I never said they shouldn't be exposed.

[decode reality]

I never said they shouldn't be exposed.

I know and I didn't imply that you did.

[filinfinland]

Let's say there's a serial killer going around with complete and utter disregard for life. The person needs to be caught, punished and (if possible) rehabilitated.
When you look at the individual's life, you may realise what made them do what they did.

I can understand and forgive the kids in my neighbourhood selling crack to other youths. The person is misguided and has taken on board negative messages from the culture around them. The culture and circumstances that created that mentality is the REAL criminal. But forgiveness alone won't work.

It's commendable to forgive. At the same time, it's important to understand how deeply entrenched and committed they are to continuing what they're doing. You can forgive but at the same time still take a firm stance and expose what the illuminati are doing.

How does the song go: " Love is all is alright....but you've left it a little too late....love is all is alright....but you've got to find a little more hate"

You are responsible for your own evolution, not theirs.

[hmz16]

I forgive the illuminati.

[zorpho99]

Thanks everyone for doing exactly the opposite of what I asked. I'm not asking much, just one thing in one thread, out of the hundreds you have and will visit during your time here. One thing. Please? PLEASE?

But I forgive you.

We can forgive their behaviour but that's all we can do. We must still remain forever vigilant and not buy any of their BS.
I agree with your concept, if we're bitter and hateful it just drags us down to their level.
We could go Benjamin Fulford's route, to commission 1000 ninjas to hunt them down and wipe them out but that's not a very nice way to deal with the problem. Hate won't do anyone any good.
It's not easy though. I'll settle for an intense dislike for their "behaviour", I guess we have to remember that NO ONE is saved until we are ALL saved.

[filinfinland]

We can forgive their behaviour but that's all we can do. We must still remain forever vigilant and not buy any of their BS.
I agree with your concept, if we're bitter and hateful it just drags us down to their level.
We could go Benjamin Fulford's route, to commission 1000 ninjas to hunt them down and wipe them out but that's not a very nice way to deal with the problem. Hate won't do anyone any good.
It's not easy though. I'll settle for an intense dislike for their "behaviour", I guess we have to remember that NO ONE is saved until we are ALL saved.

Reminds me of a friend who used to say "I'll forgive, but I'll never, ever forget"

If you think that's not easy how about this, their behavior is the catalyst for the ascension. That means that they have never done anything wrong. They are doing to the P'taah what the P'taah did to everyone else in order for them to learn the ultimate consequences of a hierarchical system (i.e. the tyranny we see approaching)

What love they must have had to leave their home in the 7th dimension and come here to play a role that they knew would result in an enormous karmic debt. They did it for the sake of the rest of the universe thinking that they not partake in it. How do you feel about them looking at it from this point of view, if only for a moment?.

All forms are an expression of consciousness, and all consciousness has a common source and a common destiny. We are one.

[pipsicle]

What love they must have had to leave their home in the 7th dimension and come here to play a role that they knew would result in an enormous karmic debt. They did it for the sake of the rest of the universe thinking that they not partake in it. How do you feel about them looking at it from this point of view, if only for a moment?.




Very interesting take.

[precious_gold]

It is possible the illuminate do not want or need our forgiveness.
They have free will just like everyone maybe the secret to spirituality or the universe is exercising your free will whatever that maybe no right or wrong.
Remember they always seem to tell us what they are going to do, what their plan is.
By doing this it is possible that it is not them that needs saving but us because we allow them to do the things they carry out.

These ideas are from the work of Michael Tsarion

He can explain what I mean a lot better

http://www.bbc5.tv/eyeplayer/video/architects-control-program-one

[somethinganonymous]

I forgive the Illuminati.

[whatnoo]

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that hate attracts hate, fear attracts more fear, etc.

The illuminati are still just energy like us, and they deserve forgiveness, like us. No matter how much you hate the control structure, the only way it can fall is if we start to heal it.

I practice ho'oponopono...it's called cleaning, healing, by saying I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you, over and over on an issue and the issue is eventually healed.

A doctor healed an entire ward of mentally ill criminals using only this technique. I use it all the time and it works for me. So why can't it be used to heal our problems with the control structure?

So let's do it. All you have to do is type "I forgive the illuminati"...even if you don't mean it. If you don't have anything good to say, please don't respond, this is a healing thread. If you don't want to say it, then don't respond at all...there are hundreds of other threads for you to spread negativity.

But if you want to respond, please respond with forgiveness first, then say something else if you want to say it.


How can I forgive when I didn't judge in the first place. We can't judge the Illuminati just because they are primitive. We have all been primitive. But it's not good/bad, right/wrong to be primitive - it's just part of the journey. So... let's affirm that they are on the same journey as the people they oppress. Lets affirm that ALL of us are progressing...

[ambler1980]

How can I forgive when I didn't judge in the first place.

well if you didn't judge then i wasn't addressing you

[verndewd]

I really dont think there is as much to forgive as we presume.

[whatnoo]

well if you didn't judge then i wasn't addressing you

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. I'm just offering an alternative point of view. But surely it's OK to disagree is it not? Healthy even.

I would just like to encourage others not to judge, before they get to the stage of having to forgive themselves for judging.

[princessofwands]

I forgive the illuminati.

No they don't want our forgiveness, in fact it's the last thing they want because they can't feed off it.

Forgiveness is a high frequency that carries us right out of the matrix. The more of us who forgive, and who view this whole cosmic drama from a 'high' and impersonal viewpoint, the quicker the matrix structure will crumble.

We'll still try them for crimes against humanity when we catch up with them. Forgiving them first weakens them and gets us closer to the day when the justice bringers knock on their doors.

:)

[filinfinland]

I forgive the illuminati.

No they don't want our forgiveness, in fact it's the last thing they want because they can't feed off it.

Forgiveness is a high frequency that carries us right out of the matrix. The more of us who forgive, and who view this whole cosmic drama from a 'high' and impersonal viewpoint, the quicker the matrix structure will crumble.

We'll still try them for crimes against humanity when we catch up with them. Forgiving them first weakens them and gets us closer to the day when the justice bringers knock on their doors.

:)

Hidden hand said that the sooner realise that there is only one of us here, the sooner the game will be over. We are one. We are expressions of the one consciousness that is the source of all things.

What love is it that forgives in order to weaken the one forgiven?. Do you understand the meaning of karma?

[ambler1980]

Do you understand the meaning of karma?

explain

[filinfinland]

explain

Echo.

The frequencies you transmit are reflected off the density boundary at the edge of the universe and return to their source, you.

My dad used to say "Do as you would be done by". Do you want people forgiving you to your face and hoping for your demise behind your back.

I for one could do without that. Only transparency, only love, only the acceptance that we are one consciousness expressing itself as a multitude. Nothing else is going to take us beyond where we are now.

The change begins with ourselves

[ambler1980]

Do you want people forgiving you to your face and hoping for your demise behind your back.

i love that, thats what ive been trying to tell people at the beginning of this thread

[_tzupidity]

Hidden hand said that the sooner realise that there is only one of us here, the sooner the game will be over. [...]

Where/When did they say that? I've not heard of it before.

[filinfinland]

Where/When did they say that? I've not heard of it before.

http://www.illuminati-news.com/00363.html

"they" were "he". My best guess is that it was prince charles, not that it matters. Read the info, make your own mind up. It's a long read but worth it.

[filinfinland]

i love that, thats what ive been trying to tell people at the beginning of this thread

It's a long road isn't it. Not long now, soon be home.

[ambler1980]

It's a long road isn't it. Not long now, soon be home.

yes it is

[hunter4]

:):):):):)If there's one thing I've learned, it's that hate attracts hate, fear attracts more fear, etc.

The illuminati are still just energy like us, and they deserve forgiveness, like us. No matter how much you hate the control structure, the only way it can fall is if we start to heal it.

I practice ho'oponopono...it's called cleaning, healing, by saying I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you, over and over on an issue and the issue is eventually healed.

A doctor healed an entire ward of mentally ill criminals using only this technique. I use it all the time and it works for me. So why can't it be used to heal our problems with the control structure?

So let's do it. All you have to do is type "I forgive the illuminati"...even if you don't mean it. If you don't have anything good to say, please don't respond, this is a healing thread. If you don't want to say it, then don't respond at all...there are hundreds of other threads for you to spread negativity.

But if you want to respond, please respond with forgiveness first, then say something else if you want to say it.

[hunter4]

there are twqo sides to the illuminati the good and the bad. We have to learn to differiniate btween the sides. I believe that acceptance and forgiveness are one of the highest forms of love but the bad side (gov't) doesn't care what we do as long as it perpetuates their cause just like the good is protecting our rights to be free citizens. rfavini4@gmail.com

[richd]

I forgive the illuminati and i want to share my love with you.

I agree wholeheartedly - hate, fear, anger, and guilt are baggage. I've been going through another change in perception after reading david's new book. I'm ready to let go of it, seeing as it doesn't serve me at all.

[filinfinland]

there are twqo sides to the illuminati the good and the bad. We have to learn to differiniate btween the sides. I believe that acceptance and forgiveness are one of the highest forms of love but the bad side (gov't) doesn't care what we do as long as it perpetuates their cause just like the good is protecting our rights to be free citizens. rfavini4@gmail.com

There is no such thing as good and bad. This would require a mid point that was neutral. Since everything in our experience is experienced as frequency and the frequency spectrum is infinite, where do you find the middle of infinity?

We need to see things a different way that is not based on duality. Even "good" experiences (high frequency spectrum) are waves that have a positive and negative polarity.

[ambler1980]

^
truth

good and bad are arbitrary beliefs people use to navigate this tiny frequency of reality.

[eshalis]

Oh no I think they should be burned at the stake just like my cousin King Philip did to the Templars.

[charas]

I would never forgive them :p

[filinfinland]

I would never forgive them :p

And what about forgiving yourself when you wake up and remember all your lives and the horrors that you have committed during them. Or are you so sure of your innocence.

[twilight of the thunder god]

You havent learned much on the illuminati if you want us to forgive them.

[ambler1980]

You havent learned much on the illuminati if you want us to forgive them.

enlighten us

[twilight of the thunder god]

enlighten us

There just not the kind to be forgiven they have killed way to many of us they have enslaved us they have kept us in the dark about everything we are. They have been doing this for far to long. the illuminati is way past the point of forgiveness.

[ambler1980]

There just not the kind to be forgiven they have killed way to many of us they have enslaved us they have kept us in the dark about everything we are. They have been doing this for far to long. the illuminati is way past the point of forgiveness.

and yet we're part of them...

there is only the expression of infinite consciousness, whether you think it's "good" or "bad" is just a choice, there is no right or wrong way of looking at it.

What forgiveness does is release you from needing to learn from them anymore. You are here to learn, every time you learn, you move on to a better situation...when you hold grudges the same things keep happening to you over and over again.

Whether it's good or bad is not the point...it's HAPPENING, which means you're being presented with an aspect of yourself that's being projected out into the world, this holographic illusion, whether personally and/or on a mass scale, as mass consciousness exists as well.

What you need to do is learn from it. But taking on the mentality of the very people you don't like, by not forgiving them, you're not learning anything new, so the situation repeats until you decide to let it go, which is all forgiveness really is. It's not kissing their ass, it's not giving them hugs and warm wishes, IT IS SIMPLY LETTING GO and moving on. When that happens they no longer have power over you because you're not participating anymore. As long as you hold them in bad thoughts, stomp, shout, fume, curse, whatever...you are merely participating in their game...it's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to drop dead, this universe doesn't work that way.

People's idea of forgiveness seems to be inaccurate here.

[filinfinland]

and yet we're part of them...

there is only the expression of infinite consciousness, whether you think it's "good" or "bad" is just a choice, there is no right or wrong way of looking at it.

What forgiveness does is release you from needing to learn from them anymore. You are here to learn, every time you learn, you move on to a better situation...when you hold grudges the same things keep happening to you over and over again.

Whether it's good or bad is not the point...it's HAPPENING, which means you're being presented with an aspect of yourself that's being projected out into the world, this holographic illusion, whether personally and/or on a mass scale, as mass consciousness exists as well.

What you need to do is learn from it. But taking on the mentality of the very people you don't like, by not forgiving them, you're not learning anything new, so the situation repeats until you decide to let it go, which is all forgiveness really is. It's not kissing their ass, it's not giving them hugs and warm wishes, IT IS SIMPLY LETTING GO and moving on. When that happens they no longer have power over you because you're not participating anymore. As long as you hold them in bad thoughts, stomp, shout, fume, curse, whatever...you are merely participating in their game...it's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to drop dead, this universe doesn't work that way.

People's idea of forgiveness seems to be inaccurate here.

I was just going to say that:D