How to Run Your Car on Chip Oil!

[lookfar]

How to run your car on chip oil
By Karen Pirie
You and Yours, BBC Radio 4

Thousands of people in the UK are now making their own biofuel
As oil price and duty rises threaten to push diesel prices beyond the £1-a-litre mark, more of us are finding inventive ways to save money on our transport costs.

Since the law changed in July, it is now legal to make up to 2,500 litres of your own biodiesel, enough to run the average family car, without having to pay tax.

"Home brewers" convert chip fat from pubs and restaurants, which would otherwise go straight to landfill. Companies who make the kits needed to convert this unwanted oil are reporting a steady rise in sales.

Thousands of enthusiasts are also expected to attend a biofuels trade fare in Nottinghamshire on 17 and 18 October.

Home brew

Dan Purkis, a consultant engineer, puts home-brewed fuel into the tanks of his 4x4, even though he is based in Aberdeen - the oil capital of the UK.

Hear Dan Purkis & biofuel experts on You and Yours

He admits that messing about with old chip fat is not for everyone but adds: "It's interesting and fun and it reduces my impact on the environment?

"When I looked at my lifestyle I realised that fuel was the greatest energy user in my life."

You can buy conversion kits from £700 but Mr Purkis has made his own.

He told the BBC's You and Yours programme: "No special tools were required and nothing was beyond the ability of a typical DIY enthusiast. Most of the parts were bought second hand or salvaged from scrap yards.

"I recycle used vegetable oil from a local hotel. They throw away between 50 and 100 litres a week which would otherwise go to landfill."

Once he gets it home, he puts the oil through a series of refinements:

Allows sediment in the oil to settle to the bottom of the bottle
Pumps and filters the top 70% of the oil; it is pure enough to put straight into his car. Treats the remaining sludge and converts it into biodiesel by adding methanol and caustic soda. Heats the oil, causing it to react with the caustic soda. The waste product from this process is glycerin, which has to be washed out of the biodiesel with soap and half-water to half-fuel. He then composts the glycerin. Mr Purkis says his car runs better on biodiesel: "It's smoother - better lubricated."

Even though he is a qualified engineer, he insists that it is not a difficult process.

"If you can follow a recipe, you can make biodiesel," he explains. "There's lots of information out there on websites and forums and in books."

Rising pump prices make home-made fuels more appealing Motoring agencies, however, suggest a more cautious approach.

Vanessa Guyll of the AA says using clean vegetable oil is possible in cars with older pumps. But she adds: "Because it's thicker it can affect the injector.

"Some diesel pumps are more vulnerable than others, and if your pump goes it could cost up to £1,200 to replace it."

Mr Purkis reckons you can get round this by modifying your vehicle to warm the oil up which makes it less viscous.

He says you can adapt your car so that the fuel pipe is near the car's heater: "You can do this yourself if you know a bit about cars or you can buy a conversion kit."

But the AA has another word of caution.

"Using a small amount mixed with regular fuel is okay but a higher concentrate can block filters," explains Vanessa Guyll. "If you're in any doubt about putting biofuels in your car, contact the manufacturer of your vehicle."

And Christopher McGowan, chief executive of the Society of Motoring Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), adds: "You have to be very careful in the manufacturing process. There are some tricky chemicals."

He also warns anyone with a new car under warranty against using their own biofuel. "If you buy a brand new car, you would want to be very certain that it was approved by the dealer."

A discussion on biofuel with Dan Purkis and two other biofuel experts is available at the Radio 4 You and Yours website.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7047128.stm

[illuminotti]

My uncle makes it in the back of his shop premises,
he goes round and collects the chip fat from chippies/kebab shops etc etc then cleans it up and runs 6 cars off it, he brought all the equipment to make it, he hasnt brought petrol for about 7months...........biodiesel....its the future;)

[lookfar]

My uncle makes it in the back of his shop premises,
he goes round and collects the chip fat from chippies/kebab shops etc etc then cleans it up and runs 6 cars off it, he brought all the equipment to make it, he hasnt brought petrol for about 7months...........biodiesel....its the future;)

Wow that's brilliant illumonitti!!:D I hadn't even heard of it before reading that article. I'm gonna have to do some research on this & spread it about to people I know, cool stuff!!:cool::)

[cf24]

Its a great idea, but the smell is very different from normal fuel, and if the ol bill are behind your car you are likely to get pulled. Not sure what the consequences are, but evading duty etc I think. Still, I would risk it. Cost of petrol/diesel takes the piss.....

[lookfar]

Its a great idea, but the smell is very different from normal fuel, and if the ol bill are behind your car you are likely to get pulled. Not sure what the consequences are, but evading duty etc I think. Still, I would risk it. Cost of petrol/diesel takes the piss.....

Yeah I hadn't thought of the smell. But like you say, it's worth the risk as they are so taking the piss with fuel prices over here (& it'd probably disguise the lingering spliff smell too eh, lol!!;):p)

[illuminotti]

I work in the shop a few days a week, and really the only time it smells is when he's brewing it, and then all you want do is get a bag of chips lol asfor spliffs yes it does mask the smell but not for long lol. for about the first five miles after filling up the tank it smells like a mobile chippy, but it doesnt get on you, just makes everyone want chips!!!

[cf24]

Yeah I hadn't thought of the smell. But like you say, it's worth the risk as they are so taking the piss with fuel prices over here (& it'd probably disguise the lingering spliff smell too eh, lol!!;):p)

I always smoke with the window open, bit smelly if you leave them shut and plod pulls you over.....

[illuminotti]

Oh and as for taking the piss, the shop is right opposite the plod shop, they dont seem to bother , hes had several cops enquiring how to make it!!and not to nick him, genuinly interested in how he does it

[castle]

Its a great idea, but the smell is very different from normal fuel, and if the ol bill are behind your car you are likely to get pulled. Not sure what the consequences are, but evading duty etc I think. Still, I would risk it. Cost of petrol/diesel takes the piss.....


There's no risk at all so long as you pay the tax on it. Some people on here seem to think its illegal but its not (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1318). They cite some guy in Wales and say look he got done. The guy got done for not paying the tax not for running his car on cooking oil.

When you buy cooking oil you dont pay tax on it its exempt so claim that people are making that you get tax twice for the same thing is also wrong.

I personally have been running one of my vehicle this way for years i did the conversion myself.

As a warning to people though dont just grab some chip fat and stick it in your tank there's a little more to it than that.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_024771&propertyType=document

[lightbeing]

I'm not putting chip fat in my car, it would block my supercharger up!;):D

[cf24]

There's no risk at all so long as you pay the tax on it. Some people on here seem to think its illegal but its not (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1318). They cite some guy in Wales and say look he got done. The guy got done for not paying the tax not for running his car on cooking oil.

When you buy cooking oil you dont pay tax on it its exempt so claim that people are making that you get tax twice for the same thing is also wrong.

I personally have been running one of my vehicle this way for years i did the conversion myself.

As a warning to people though dont just grab some chip fat and stick it in your tank there's a little more to it than that.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_024771&propertyType=document

Good info castle. What does it cost you then compared to standard fuel.. In pence per litre if you could. Thanks.....

[lookfar]

There's no risk at all so long as you pay the tax on it. Some people on here seem to think its illegal but its not (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1318). They cite some guy in Wales and say look he got done. The guy got done for not paying the tax not for running his car on cooking oil.

When you buy cooking oil you dont pay tax on it its exempt so claim that people are making that you get tax twice for the same thing is also wrong.

I personally have been running one of my vehicle this way for years i did the conversion myself.

As a warning to people though dont just grab some chip fat and stick it in your tank there's a little more to it than that.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_024771&propertyType=document

Wow that's great castle. Do you think you could post some info on the conversion process as well, that'd be well handy!!:)

[castle]

Good info castle. What does it cost you then compared to standard fuel.. In pence per litre if you could. Thanks.....

It cost me nothing as i get the oil for free from a friend who owns some chippy's. Thats the main reason i got into it that and fun. My friend and i both knew we would have a supply of oil for nothing compared to the fact that he used to have to pay for it to be taken away.

The rate of taxation on bio fuel was originally set at a reduced rate of 27.1p per litre, but in 2005, HMRC started to enforce the full diesel excise rate of 47.1p per litre. This however is not all doom and gloom the trade off was there is no need to register or pay duty on oil used as road fuel if you use less than 2500 litres per year.

[cf24]

It cost me nothing as i get the oil for free from a friend who owns some chippy's. Thats the main reason i got into it that and fun. My friend and i both knew we would have a supply of oil for nothing compared to the fact that he used to have to pay for it to be taken away.

The rate of taxation on bio fuel was originally set at a reduced rate of 27.1p per litre, but in 2005, HMRC started to enforce the full diesel excise rate of 47.1p per litre. This however is not all doom and gloom the trade off was there is no need to register or pay duty on oil used as road fuel if you use less than 2500 litres per year.


So really, you can get away without paying fuck all? Sweet!:D

[castle]

Wow that's great castle. Do you think you could post some info on the conversion process as well, that'd be well handy!!:)

Its as simple as this

http://webadmin.vegiecars.com/Assets/Files/6cyl%20cold%20start%20instructions.pdf

[castle]

So really, you can get away without paying fuck all? Sweet!:D

Yes you can.

Some people in the other thread despite being told are still saying its illegal but its not. Not in the UK anyway i think it is in the USA.

They go on about a guy in Wales that got done but he was done for not paying the tax not for running his car on cooking oil. I think they are trying to make out its illegal because its all some part of a fuel conspiracy and now they have been shown its legal they dont want to except it and through out their preconceived notions. Someone else is saying that on some cooking programme they are shown filling up their 4x4 with cooking oil and asking why ain't they being prosecuted. Well the answer is simple they are not breaking the law. Seems like some people just dont want truth they want a conspiracy whether real or imagined.

[castle]

How to run your car on chip oil
By Karen Pirie
You and Yours, BBC Radio 4

Thousands of people in the UK are now making their own biofuel
As oil price and duty rises threaten to push diesel prices beyond the £1-a-litre mark, more of us are finding inventive ways to save money on our transport costs.

Since the law changed in July, it is now legal to make up to 2,500 litres of your own biodiesel, enough to run the average family car, without having to pay tax.

"Home brewers" convert chip fat from pubs and restaurants, which would otherwise go straight to landfill. Companies who make the kits needed to convert this unwanted oil are reporting a steady rise in sales.

Thousands of enthusiasts are also expected to attend a biofuels trade fare in Nottinghamshire on 17 and 18 October.

Home brew

Dan Purkis, a consultant engineer, puts home-brewed fuel into the tanks of his 4x4, even though he is based in Aberdeen - the oil capital of the UK.

Hear Dan Purkis & biofuel experts on You and Yours

He admits that messing about with old chip fat is not for everyone but adds: "It's interesting and fun and it reduces my impact on the environment?

"When I looked at my lifestyle I realised that fuel was the greatest energy user in my life."

You can buy conversion kits from £700 but Mr Purkis has made his own.

He told the BBC's You and Yours programme: "No special tools were required and nothing was beyond the ability of a typical DIY enthusiast. Most of the parts were bought second hand or salvaged from scrap yards.

"I recycle used vegetable oil from a local hotel. They throw away between 50 and 100 litres a week which would otherwise go to landfill."

Once he gets it home, he puts the oil through a series of refinements:

Allows sediment in the oil to settle to the bottom of the bottle
Pumps and filters the top 70% of the oil; it is pure enough to put straight into his car. Treats the remaining sludge and converts it into biodiesel by adding methanol and caustic soda. Heats the oil, causing it to react with the caustic soda. The waste product from this process is glycerin, which has to be washed out of the biodiesel with soap and half-water to half-fuel. He then composts the glycerin. Mr Purkis says his car runs better on biodiesel: "It's smoother - better lubricated."

Even though he is a qualified engineer, he insists that it is not a difficult process.

"If you can follow a recipe, you can make biodiesel," he explains. "There's lots of information out there on websites and forums and in books."

Rising pump prices make home-made fuels more appealing Motoring agencies, however, suggest a more cautious approach.

Vanessa Guyll of the AA says using clean vegetable oil is possible in cars with older pumps. But she adds: "Because it's thicker it can affect the injector.

"Some diesel pumps are more vulnerable than others, and if your pump goes it could cost up to £1,200 to replace it."

Mr Purkis reckons you can get round this by modifying your vehicle to warm the oil up which makes it less viscous.

He says you can adapt your car so that the fuel pipe is near the car's heater: "You can do this yourself if you know a bit about cars or you can buy a conversion kit."

But the AA has another word of caution.

"Using a small amount mixed with regular fuel is okay but a higher concentrate can block filters," explains Vanessa Guyll. "If you're in any doubt about putting biofuels in your car, contact the manufacturer of your vehicle."

And Christopher McGowan, chief executive of the Society of Motoring Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), adds: "You have to be very careful in the manufacturing process. There are some tricky chemicals."

He also warns anyone with a new car under warranty against using their own biofuel. "If you buy a brand new car, you would want to be very certain that it was approved by the dealer."

A discussion on biofuel with Dan Purkis and two other biofuel experts is available at the Radio 4 You and Yours website.

Just to clear something up. this bit:

Since the law changed in July, it is now legal to make up to 2,500 litres of your own biodiesel, enough to run the average family car, without having to pay tax.

Might give the impression that before July it was illegal to make your own fuel or run your car on it. This is not the case its the tax law thats changed. Since July you are not liable for any tax on the fuel untill you have used more that 2500 liters. After that every liter you use is liable for tax. Before July all fuel right from the first drop was liable for tax at a reduced rate the tax you pay on the fuel now after the 2500 liter mark is charged at full rate. Its a good trade off as most people will pay no tax at all.

[lookfar]

Just to clear something up. this bit:

Might give the impression that before July it was illegal to make your own fuel or run your car on it. This is not the case its the tax law thats changed. Since July you are not liable for any tax on the fuel untill you have used more that 2500 liters. After that every liter you use is liable for tax. Before July all fuel right from the first drop was liable for tax at a reduced rate the tax you pay on the fuel now after the 2500 liter mark is charged at full rate. Its a good trade off as most people will pay no tax at all.

Thanks for clearing that up castle :) I've been passing this info onto a few bods today :cool:

[revelations]

cool thread lookfar... very interesting! ;):D

[lookfar]

cool thread lookfar... very interesting! ;):D

Thanks honey!:D It's very interesting, I wanna get this info out to as many people I know as possible, it's the way to go IMO! We should all stop handing over money to the dodgy petroleum companies.

[lottie]

Hey Lookypoopypants!! LOL!!

Look what i just found......:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOFbsaNeZps

[revolutionary_jam]

whats the site for getting your car converted?

[lookfar]

Hey Lookypoopypants!! LOL!!

Look what i just found......:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOFbsaNeZps

Thanks Lottieploopypants, lol!;)

Good find!:) Just tried to watch it, but the link says it's been removed, WTF!:confused:

[revolutionary_jam]

taxi drivers should do it

[lookfar]

taxi drivers should do it

Yeah totally RJ. I'll have to see if my taxi driver mate would consider doing it & see what he says...:)

[revolutionary_jam]

i've been mentioning it to taxi drivers whenever im in one but i don't have a good website to direct them to :/

[pedsi]

Heard this being talked about on the radio the other day....aparrently people are buying the oil from the supermarkets and firing it straight in the tank along with a little bit of deisel.....no need for any conversion and because its clean there's no smell!!
Anyone ellse heard this?

[castle]

A 10% veg oil blend will work for everyone. There should be no noticeable difference in how your car drives. 27 litres of diesel and one three-litre bottle of veg oil from the supermarket.


At 25% veg oil in 75% diesel, your exhaust stops smelling like a taxi and starts smelling like a doughnut fryer. You should notice the slight smoothness improvement around now.


33% one part veg to two parts regular diesel is the heaviest mix I would recommend for the British winter, unless you've got a frost-free garage. This level of blend still starts even on cold, frosty mornings.


50% is a good running blend for the rest of the year. Half-and-half is where the cost savings really show themselves. This is where you can run your car for nothing using used cooking oil.

Using used oil is really the way to go you can get it for nothing and dont have to add normal diesel.

Here's how to make biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html

I posted a link showing how to convert your car earlier in the thread.

Like i said in a converted car no diesel is required. The conversion mainly heats the biodiesel to reduce the viscosity and so it dosent block up the fuel pump or injectors.

[castle]

Theres loads of sites about running your car this way just Google them.

http://www.dieselveg.com/

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/conversionkits.html

BTW dont let any conspiracy fan tell you its illegal like they have been saying on here its not.

Some people got done for not paying the tax when they used the oil as fuel. You used to have to pay a reduced tax rate on it. This lead some conspiracy people to start a rumor that its illegal and its being stamped on as part of a huge energy conspiracy, complete baloney.

BTW you dont now have to pay any tax untill you have used more than 2500 liters in a year. Then the tax is charged at the same rate as normal fuel. Cant see many using over the 2500 l.

[pleasuredome]

as castle says, it isn't illegal.

i have been using veg oil since the summer. i have a 1999 astra which ran fine on 100% veg oil with no conversion, but since the weather has become cooler i am now mixing it 50/50 with diesel. the cooler veg oil is, the more thicker it becomes and therefore makes starting more laboured.

i was a bit pissed off though when the shits who run this country put tax up on veg oil. it cost 57p per litre from morrison's before and now its 68p.

there is a cetane booster, called veggie-boost, you can buy to make veg oil more combustable if you mix it with petrol to make it thinner for the winter if you dont have a seperate tank conversion.

[castle]

as castle says, it isn't illegal.

i have been using veg oil since the summer. i have a 1999 astra which ran fine on 100% veg oil with no conversion, but since the weather has become cooler i am now mixing it 50/50 with diesel. the cooler veg oil is, the more thicker it becomes and therefore makes starting more laboured.

i was a bit pissed off though when the shits who run this country put tax up on veg oil. it cost 57p per litre from Morrison's before and now its 68p.

there is a cetane booster, called veggie-boost, you can buy to make veg oil more combustable if you mix it with petrol to make it thinner for the winter if you dont have a seperate tank conversion.

You dont pay tax on veg oil when you buy it in Morrison's its exempt because its food grade. Thats why you have to watch what your doing when you use it as fuel because veg oil used as a fuel requires a tax payment at the normal diesel rate for any amount you use over 2550 L in a year. Its probably Morrison's cashing in. Only veg oil used as fuel has to have tax paid on it and you dont pay that at Morrison's.

Many people in the UK are running their diesel vehicles on straight vegetable oil. Under the duty regulations this is allowed. However, there are still issues that need to be considered regarding the use of super-market cooking oil as fuel: 1) classified as food grade, new cooking oil is VAT zero rated and should only be used for cooking unless you intend to pay the duty on any over 2500 liters yourself, 2) misuse of new cooking oil for fuel drives up the market price of a food commodity.

So to recap you dont pay tax on cooking oil its exempt but if you use it as fuel and use more than 2500 L a year you have to inform HMRC and pay the fuel tax to them. Ask in Morrisons and they will confirm cooking oil is tax free when they sell it.

[graflok]

What the hell is chip fat?

[castle]

What the hell is chip fat?

Cooking oil.

[graflok]

Oh. Because you boil your chips in it, right?
As in 'Fish & Chips.' OK, I get it.

OK. Carry on ...

[jim fear]

http://www.dieselveg.com/

Theres Laads of sites online about running your car on Veg oil, its cheap as chips ( pardon the pun) and is carbon neutral, and i doubt the lizard will have us go to war for it!

You can purchase a convertion kit of Ebay to. My sisters B/fs car runs of it! i couldnt believe it!

[king]

http://www.dieselveg.com/

Theres Laads of sites online about running your car on Veg oil, its cheap as chips ( pardon the pun) and is carbon neutral, and i doubt the lizard will have us go to war for it!

You can purchase a convertion kit of Ebay to. My sisters B/fs car runs of it! i couldnt believe it!

only works on diesels

[mahabaratara]

Thank You for this...:)

[mahabaratara]

only works on diesels

more mpg...

[jim fear]

only works on diesels

This is true unfortunately but I’d consider buying an older car which runs off diesel, since its green (carbon neutral) and its half the price of regular diesel and the monster companies will have less of my money!

I just wanted to make people aware of the fact that there are options out there for alternative energy fuels etc.

[lottie]

Just to let you guys know that with jimfears agreement this thread has been merged with lookfars one of the same topic!:)

[king]

This is true unfortunately but I’d consider buying an older car which runs off diesel, since its green (carbon neutral) and its half the price of regular diesel and the monster companies will have less of my money!

I just wanted to make people aware of the fact that there are options out there for alternative energy fuels etc.

i know that you just tried to help, and i do appreciate your information (i was not trying to be a wise ass)

I worked on cars professionally for many years, so i know a bit about engines.
;-)

friend of mine, a benz mechanic fills in about $ 10 worth of diesel in his car, then he tops it off with used vegetable oil that he gets from local from the restaurants.
all he does is -- he strains the oil through a painter's strainer before he fills up the tank with oil.
it works out to be about 90% of used oil per tank.
so, for $ 10.00 he drives around 500 miles.

if my math is right -- that is only 2 cents per mile!

if i get less than 15 cents per mile -- i am happy!

he saves the loads of $$

the only bad thing about diesel cars are soot particles, those things are not good for your lungs.

i read "suppressed inventions" book and i learned that 200Mpg carburetor and other fuel saving devices existed for many years now, but big oil did not like those who cut in their profits.

but, one day soon i think that we will have a technological revolution by those people who are just fed up with the big oil, people may just start doing their own thing in their garages to get away from the control of big oil.


that is my dream anyways

[king]

BTW, has anyone use any of fuel saver devices or that work?

or,maybe someone had done engine modifications that save the fuel?



WATER as FUEL -- Hydrogen enhancement (http://www.geocities.com/waterfuel111/car_electrolyser.html).

and

Universal Hydrogen Boost Fuel Injection System (http://www.sotechsystems.com/store/performance/hydrogen-fuel/universal-hydrogen-boost-fuel-injection-system/prod_1024.html).

[kasalt]

Here's a great little article on the subject...

Doing what Detroit says is impossible:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/30/14161/066

[king]

Here's a great little article on the subject...

Doing what Detroit says is impossible:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/30/14161/066

wow!

great stuff!

thanks for the link

[lookfar]

Had to dig this thread up again as I was just speaking to a work colleague about this, he's seriously looking into it which is cool!:cool: