Brown is screwing up.

[baron von lotsov]

I mean seriously looking like Brown bread. In a matter of weeks the polls have swung from an 11% lead to 7% behind. That's 18%, a big number when it comes to the difference in Tory and Labour voters. You can always tell how serious it is by reading the BBC.

Their handlers are obviously in a panick and trying desperately to patch things up. One interesting thing I had observed is the Tory think tank was apparently giving the Tories a bunch of failure kind of policies to dish out like green taxes and the Tories have apparently ditched them. So that all seeing eye has screwed up here by the looks of things. Cameron has changed tack and the boost in support has united the party. The policies as they stand now are anti-centralist, anti-EU and pro-democracy.

Check this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=1K43SFDD51BEVQFIQMFSFFWAVCBQ 0IV0?xml=/opinion/2007/10/14/do1404.xml

and then you can check the MI5 version /sorry I meant the BBC version.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7044079.stm

[baron von lotsov]

,

[chris]

Yes it has been interesting...I thought that perhaps the media will wait until a date for the general election before it starts to push the winner but it looks like it has already started...

Brown is a representative of OPEC while Cameron is a neocon clone, the papers will be on the side of Cameron but Brown seems to have a lot of police power (which will be less effective here but worked against Blair in the Cash for honours)...I don't think Brown will back down easily but it looks like Cameron is already being crowned.

I wouldn't trust those polls very much, probably lies but still can influence the public quite a bit. I love observing the infighting.

I think it's going perfectly for the elites...First they seperate the votes between the three political parties.
They managed to get it just before a hung parliament, this is like a guy in the longjump jumping perfectly on the board getting the maximum advantage in minimum effort.
Then get rid of the likable Ted Kennedy, replace him with an old fogie and start to funnel the labour and Lib-dem voters into conservatives.
I'm sure on the runup to the election they will let out some interesting scandels in the Labour camp.
Then Cameron will win in a huge landslide victory.

It's a lot like chess...

[norton]

nothing in politics happens by accident- to quote some guy i can't remember



And


if voting actually changed anything, they'd make it illegal! - to quote some other guy

[tiswas]

The only party I will vote is Labour, Brown I feel is more intelligent than Cameron.

[norton]

do you really think brown and cameron are operating to a different agenda? or are they playing to the same ends? i.e. what difference is it going to make?

[auron]

http://www.mousqbaretous.com/Lanne2003/images/duel.jpg

Brown and Cameron on public display.


http://aycu25.webshots.com/image/28824/2002347419380496648_rs.jpg

Brown and Cameron behind closed doors.

[edelweiss pirate]

What it is Baron is that they jiggled the figures and wanked on about the Brown bounce bullshit to give Brown a false sense of security and provoke him to call an early election that he would then lose paving the way for the drone Cameron.

Brown maybe saw through it, that's why Cameron and the Torries were so pissed off that he didn't hold the election.

Maybe Cameron is the agenda man and not Brown...

Brown is partially his own man, more so than Cameron who just looks like robot
awaiting his programming.

[chris]

The only party I will vote is Labour, Brown I feel is more intelligent than Cameron.

If there are no other groups like no2id or UKIP (who I have always voted for) then I'll probably vote for labour since it looks like they are gunning for a conservative landslide.

[baron von lotsov]

do you really think brown and cameron are operating to a different agenda? or are they playing to the same ends? i.e. what difference is it going to make?


No ID cards. I mean seriously the Tories will cancel them. The elite might control a lot but public opinion is bigger than they are and there are some smart people working for the people out there as well. It's not all doom and gloom, if you look you will see a number of their projects screwing up at the moment. Their climate change crap, their EU constitution and their ID cards. So this is good news and David Davis who will be the new Home Secretary is completely and utterly against them. We are winning, strange as though it may seem to the likes of you lot.

[chris]

Yes, all over England and America, they are finding more and more resistance to their schemes. I am wondering if it's because of us or mostly the general hate towards government they are generating.

Still in the summer of 2001 you would have never expected the world to change this much in just a few months...

[baron von lotsov]

What it is Baron is that they jiggled the figures and wanked on about the Brown bounce bullshit to give Brown a false sense of security and provoke him to call an early election that he would then lose paving the way for the drone Cameron.

Brown maybe saw through it, that's why Cameron and the Torries were so pissed off that he didn't hold the election.

Maybe Cameron is the agenda man and not Brown...

Brown is partially his own man, more so than Cameron who just looks like robot
awaiting his programming.


Ah but they do it through their think tanks. Labour use the Institute for Public Policy Research and the Tories use a different one. This is where the Tory green tax idiocy came from but they ditched it. So whom do you really think the elite want in control at the moment? The BBC is your best source for finding out. The BBC is not pushing Cameron, it is propping up Brown.

[baron von lotsov]

Yes, all over England and America, they are finding more and more resistance to their schemes. I am wondering if it's because of us or mostly the general hate towards government they are generating.

Still in the summer of 2001 you would have never expected the world to change this much in just a few months...


At NO2ID we went against the perceived grain of wisdom and went for a campaign that held the intellectual argument rather than do the kind of mindless campaigning those Greenpeice people do by appealing to the lowest common denominator. This has been remarkable as we got the ear of the press and they carried it forwards for us. So many sheep in this country but we got their shepherds to agree with us and they naturally followed as all good sheep tend to do.

[norton]

until the next 'terror threat' or the next maddie case 'something has to be done' the media will say. hmmm, remember that thing about id cards?? or, ok, people don't want id cards....your wallets make ugly imprints in you trousers, how about a handy little chip?


i believe it matters not who is in power, they are placed into power by THEM. If THEY want it, it will happen

[baron von lotsov]

until the next 'terror threat' or the next maddie case 'something has to be done' the media will say. hmmm, remember that thing about id cards?? or, ok, people don't want id cards....your wallets make ugly imprints in you trousers, how about a handy little chip?


i believe it matters not who is in power, they are placed into power by THEM. If THEY want it, it will happen



The Roman Empire used to think like that as well.

[norton]

what do you mean baron?

[baron von lotsov]

what do you mean baron?

Pride goes before a fall.

[norton]

that makes no sense. i take no pride in the knowledge that THEY are in control, all i'm saying is we can all protest as much as we want but at the end of the day it's THEM in control, if THEY want it it will happen

[tintin]

No ID cards. I mean seriously the Tories will cancel them. The elite might control a lot but public opinion is bigger than they are and there are some smart people working for the people out there as well. It's not all doom and gloom, if you look you will see a number of their projects screwing up at the moment. Their climate change crap, their EU constitution and their ID cards. So this is good news and David Davis who will be the new Home Secretary is completely and utterly against them. We are winning, strange as though it may seem to the likes of you lot.

I am not sure if we are winning.
Yes, there are little victories here and there, but overall
I don't see much improvement.

The wars in Iraq and afghanistan happily continue
and I see hardly any outrage on a mass scale.
(it's already too late for outrage anyway, because
that country is already unliveable with all the DU.)

when I compare it with the Vietnam war for instance.
There was real resistance back then.
Think we are more or less dumbed down and still
far too much focused on material wealth.

And the amount of BS they throw at us is just bizar.
Yet, we still live on like, well, like politicians are swindlers
and we just have to accept it.

But look at other areas in the world.
I see South america going COMMUNIST under the
leadership of Chavez.
and how about those more than a billion MUSLIMS in the
world. They are being humiliated and betrayed.
More so than ever. People can openly speculate about
BOMBING Tehran and no one cares.

Now if I would live in Iran, I would really be scared.
and there are 80 million Iranians.
No improvement in that country.

Africa? Don't know, still doesn't look good.
China? Economically getting stronger and stronger. and
the west wil notice one day, when the system collapses.

The factories are in china, not in america.
So, although I don't want to sound gloomy, but think
it's all a bit too little and too late.

Watch out when people in the west lose their money.
They have lived the EASY life for a few decades now.
especially in America.
Am not optimistic at all about america
when the financial SHTF.....

Hope I am wrong though....

[chris]

that makes no sense. i take no pride in the knowledge that THEY are in control, all i'm saying is we can all protest as much as we want but at the end of the day it's THEM in control, if THEY want it it will happen

I think Baron was saying that the fall of the Roman empire was because of pride, not that you were being proud;)

[baron von lotsov]

"when I compare it with the Vietnam war for instance.
There was real resistance back then."

Oh no there wasn't. That's another can of worms but the elite orchestrated that movement much like you see the environmental movement of today. My reference is Henry Makow, he was participating in it at the time until he realised the elite were behind it. This is why he turned to exposing them and became a conspiracy writer. Anything that has mass media wall-to-wall coverage is a set-up. ID cards were a different game altogether, NO2ID has just got enough funds to advertise for its first full time paid member of staff. It is exceedingly difficult to get a campaign together without elite backing but with it you will see millions poured in, you will see countless films and documentaries made and so on. That was Vietnam.

[tintin]

"when I compare it with the Vietnam war for instance.
There was real resistance back then."

Oh no there wasn't. That's another can of worms but the elite orchestrated that movement much like you see the environmental movement of today. My reference is Henry Makow, he was participating in it at the time until he realised the elite were behind it. This is why he turned to exposing them and became a conspiracy writer. Anything that has mass media wall-to-wall coverage is a set-up. ID cards were a different game altogether, NO2ID has just got enough funds to advertise for its first full time paid member of staff. It is exceedingly difficult to get a campaign together without elite backing but with it you will see millions poured in, you will see countless films and documentaries made and so on. That was Vietnam.

Ah, good old Baron,
sharp as ever.

Yes, think you may have a point about those
Vietnam protests.

It's difficult to get a good view of when something is genuine
on a real grass-roots basis or when it is orchestrated.

But i just have that feeling that decades of the good life has
lulled us to sleep a bit...

It's that financial thing.
It's just insane how americans are focused om money.
Also all by design of course, so that's what will hit them
on the chin.
The perfect excuse to release all the pumped up
violence that has been building over all those years.

The extreme violence in movies, games, etc,etc.
Soldiers everywhere are already horrified by
the level of violence in the American military,
so as the henchman of the illumies, that doesn't look
to good for the near future...

And those horror stories about airport controls
show us that those "para-military" guardians are
not much better either.....

[baron von lotsov]

Yeh but that Ron Paul is doing a cracking job on it. He wants them all back home and he is telling the people they can't afford to police the world. He explains how the CIA make matters worse and not even the government is in control of them, which is also true. He talks about the Federal Reserve but I have not seen any mention of the Bank of England yet. Still it is immense progress and he is waking people up.

[edelweiss pirate]

I'm still not sure if Brown is really evil.

True he appears to have no eyes to speak of which is always a bad sign.

But he did say that the modern economic system is absurd and needs changing...

Changing to what that's the question... New World Order?

Fair World Order?

Solve... what info are you channeling at the moment?

[synergy777]

both are globalists.

ukip is the only alternative out of the established parties.

http://www.ukip.org/ukip/index.php

Nothing less than a fight for survival

Annabelle Fuller says the affront to democracy of the EU "Reform Treaty" is something that everyone should have seen coming, not just those who have always fought to retain the sovereignty of the nation state

http://www.eutruth.org.uk/

The abolition of Britain by The Reform Treaty in 2008

The sixth and final treaty has now been named: its is the Reform Treaty, due to be signed by the Queen in the Summer of 2008. This is a year before the deadline set by the Chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel.

Merkel and former French President Giscard d’Estaing are among many European ministers who have confirmed the Treaty is the EU Constitution, almost unchanged. If they are right, it will abolish the British Constitution, and therefore the nations of Britain and England, sweeping away our Westminster Parliament, and giving the EU dictatorship the power to close it.

This sixth treaty is the fastest moving and most secret the EU has drafted; opposition to and recognition of the EU as a police state is growing, and they know speed is vital.


The Countdown to abolition

Tony Blair agreed to it on 23rd June 2007 as his final stab in Britain’s back. On the 23rd July there was an Intergovernmental Conference (IGC), when we should have seen a first draft of the Treaty.

Foreign ministers will agree its terms on 7-8th September at the resort of Viana de Castelo, Portugal. There will be a summit in Lisbon on the 18th and 19th October, where they hope to sign the Treaty, but definitely before December 2007. This should be Gordon Brown’s signature.


The Queen and Parliament to abolish Britain summer 2008

They plan to ratify the Reform Treaty in the Summer of 2008. This means Westminster will pass the treaty, and the Queen will sign it behind our backs, as she has the other five treaties.

No referendum

The EU has chosen this sixth Treaty instead of pushing through it’s constitution to avoid referendums in its member nations.

Whereas the 465 page EU Constitution would have abolished the five treaties and replaced them with a single document with absolute power, the Reform Treaty adds to the existing five treaties, bringing them up to the powers of the EU Constitution. All six treaties with appendices will add up to something like 100,000 complex and unreadable pages.


The EU remains illegal

Each of these six treaties are completely illegal under the British Constitution, our 1689 Bill of Rights, our treason laws, and under our common law. It is unforgivable that the Queen, her Ministers and our Parliament have committed the criminal act of treason by signing these treaties, and broken our laws to abolish our nation.

The EU will always be illegal in Britain; but once the EU has complete power and control here, we can no more get rid of it than we could Germany, had their planned illegal occupation of Britain in 1940 been successful.


You have one year left

Treason is the most serious of all Britain’s crimes. You have just one year left to bring these vile British traitors to justice, and get us out of the EU dictatorship.

Around 45 million British people are against the abolition of our nation, and with the little European voting that has been allowed, it seems clear over 200 million of its victims don’t want the EU. But we will never be given the choice. YOU have to decide to act yourself.

There are ways to stop the EU - see "Your Campaigns" on the left. Then we will need a mass blockade of Westminster to stop our criminal MP's and Queen breaking our constitution and laws for the last time.


are we ready to defend this nation or is just beer fuelled rhetoric?

[chris]

"when I compare it with the Vietnam war for instance.
There was real resistance back then."

Oh no there wasn't. That's another can of worms but the elite orchestrated that movement much like you see the environmental movement of today. My reference is Henry Makow, he was participating in it at the time until he realised the elite were behind it. This is why he turned to exposing them and became a conspiracy writer. Anything that has mass media wall-to-wall coverage is a set-up. ID cards were a different game altogether, NO2ID has just got enough funds to advertise for its first full time paid member of staff. It is exceedingly difficult to get a campaign together without elite backing but with it you will see millions poured in, you will see countless films and documentaries made and so on. That was Vietnam.

Do you think the Iraq war protests were backed? It seemed as though they had fair coverage and it really woke many up to what kind of tyranny we are living under. They could have easily downplayed it and people would have been none the wiser but they were playing protests from here to Japan. Why?

[baron von lotsov]

Do you think the Iraq war protests were backed? It seemed as though they had fair coverage and it really woke many up to what kind of tyranny we are living under. They could have easily downplayed it and people would have been none the wiser but they were playing protests from here to Japan. Why?



Yeh that too was at the very least infiltrated. I would not be surprised if they attacked Iraq all because of some social engineering project they were hoping to accomplish. You see Vietnam was only there because the elite wanted to build an anti-war movement and play the Hegelian dialectic on the people.

Now mixed into that was the anti-Bush thing. He has been set up as the Saddam of the west. Bush is a Republican and Republicans are very much against the NWO. They and our Conservatives are a strong political force, which the Illuminati are doing their best to destroy. In the NWO there will be not private property, no one will be able to run their own business, it will all be state controlled. I saw how people were trying to morph the anti-war movement into a socialist network. Look at the Stop the War Coalition. That was pretty blatant.

[baron von lotsov]

~

[dondaz]

Brown is a mason. So is Cameron. Vote for their parties at your peril. I think the only chance we have is voting ukip, but they may be under the control of the powers that be too.

None of them are trustworthy.

[matrixcutter]

Did anyone see him at the rugby, desperately pretending he gives a shit about sport, shaking the hands of all the players, desperately trying to score some good publicity by osmosis. Most of the players looked at him as if to say "what are you doing here? F off." And he looked really uncomfortable and kept trying to talk to the South African president, who kept blanking him.

I don't know how he's got the balls to show himself in public doing what he's doing. Actually, it's because he knows he'll get away with it because most people don't care, that's why.

[baron von lotsov]

Yes because Cameron is one of the very few Conservatives to properly lay into him and the man is damaged now. No one likes him, no one even voted for him either.

[matrixcutter]

Yes because Cameron is one of the very few Conservatives to properly lay into him and the man is damaged now. No one likes him, no one even voted for him either.
Do you actually have faith in the democratic system? If so, why?

[baron von lotsov]

Do you actually have faith in the democratic system? If so, why?

I think it is still fairer than the substitute being put into place, which is coming partly from the EU and also the vast NGO network. What we need to get out of the mess is to actually go backwards and restore the democracy that has been stolen from us. Anyway you come across as someone who thinks Cameron will do stuff like a robot. This is impossible to know, the future is not set in stone and it is up to us to help restore things. Any politician who feels this way is in my good books. Look at Norman Baker and the Kelly investigation. Did you think such a thing was possible when it happened? It has surprised even myself. Real progress is now occurring.

[matrixcutter]

I think it is still fairer than the substitute being put into place, which is coming partly from the EU and also the vast NGO network. What we need to get out of the mess is to actually go backwards and restore the democracy that has been stolen from us.
It was always corrupt. Going backwards means corruption, going forwards means a new kind of all-powerful, unified corruption. I suppose we need to go sideways, to somewhere new and different.


Anyway you come across as someone who thinks Cameron will do stuff like a robot. This is impossible to know, the future is not set in stone and it is up to us to help restore things.
Cameron will do exactly what he is put there to do, like all PMs do. When he leaves the job, he will be suitably rewarded for his criminal neglect.


Any politician who feels this way is in my good books.
Feels what way? Are you suggesting that you believe anything that Cameron says? I trust that you realise that politicans looking for a vote in the near future have quite a strong motive to be what politicians would call "economical with the truth".


Look at Norman Baker and the Kelly investigation. Did you think such a thing was possible when it happened?
Yes. What I didn't think was possible was any kind of meaningful justice being done, because the relevant powers that be know the handshake.
Norman Baker (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10858) seems to be one of the genuinely decent politicians. I hope he doesn't get suicided.


It has surprised even myself. Real progress is now occurring.
Can you provide a few examples?

[baron von lotsov]

Well I have gone from kicking about on conspiracy boards to actually trying to apply my brains to real world problems that are happening now and to do something about them. I have focused on the ID cards, as I can't be jack-of-all-trades and feel it is better to do one thing well rather than many things badly. So from my corner we are winning. ID cards have become a major political issue and public support has dropped off the scales. What do you have to report from your end of things?

[matrixcutter]

Well I have gone from kicking about on conspiracy boards to actually trying to apply my brains to real world problems that are happening now and to do something about them. I have focused on the ID cards, as I can't be jack-of-all-trades and feel it is better to do one thing well rather than many things badly. So from my corner we are winning. ID cards have become a major political issue and public support has dropped off the scales.
ID cards are coming in though, aren't they? It's a done deal isn't it?

What did you mean by "real progress is occurring"? Were you talking about ID cards?

What do you have to report from your end of things?
That the microchip agenda is frightening, and trying to get people who are completely ignorant of it to look at any of the freely available information is even more frightening.

Action is a good thing, obviously, but only when it's not a complete waste of your own time and energy. But which things are a waste of time and which are not? People will inevitably have different answers to that.
To me, battling ID cards is a waste of time. Battling what is lined up for us after the ID cards gives us all much more of a chance of success.
Battling ID cards, losing and then facing the next step completely under-prepared, disheartened and pissed off, is not a good prospect, especially if you had been expecting the Tories to help you. I sometimes wonder whether people who expect real help from top politicians are actually joking.

[Mo0n5tar]

What we need to get out of the mess is to actually go backwards and restore the democracy that has been stolen from us.

I just read the Bill of Rights (http://www.webmesh.co.uk/englishbillofrights1689.htm) for the first time the other day, what an incredible document that is, you can almost feel the sense of achievement they must have felt in regaining control of their parliament from the Papal Octopus!

Baron do you think all this subversive politics and treason in government could have anything to do with the fact that Jesuits have been formerly practicing indoctrination in the colleges and universities for over 100 years now? (or even since the accession of QUeen Victoria?)

Any surprise that the most weasily of prime ministers and slippery of characters, T, Blair is a Papal knight and now obviously in bed with the Roman Catholic heirarchy?

For referance, King James II flooded parliament with Roman Catholics loyal to the Pope, seeking to remove the freedoms bestowed by the protestant reformation, any idea of Justice, Liberty, Rights, honour etc comes from the protestant reformation when people read the bible for themselves and based their laws, governments and institutions upon the law of God, Canon law runs parallel to this assuming the Pope as vicar of Christ, in place of Christ in earth, every roman catholic run country is loyal to the Vatican city that is why we chased them out and drafted the Bill!