What right did Israel have to do this????

[tinmenace]

Israeli airstrike targeted Syrian nuclear reactor

NEW YORK (AP) -- An Israeli airstrike on Syria last month targeted a partially built nuclear reactor that was years away from completion, the New York Times reported Saturday, citing U.S. and foreign officials.

Source (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/10/14/israel.syria.ap/index.html)



If this was Syria that did an airstrike against nuclear reactor in Israel, OMFG, WW3 would erupt. The fucking hypocrisy of it all! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[nikolaijovanovic]

The right not to have a nuclear armed enemy next door. Quite simple really. Remind me, which middle eastern nation has been attcked 4 times since 1945? Not too difficult to understand their paranoia.

More to the point why does Syria want nuclear weapons? To defend themselves from Iran? The US? Or is it not really for defence? Makes a good negotiating position for the Golan Heights though.

Before anyone says "It is to generate electricity" They don't need nuclear power. Fair bit of Oil around there, and a byproduct of power generation is plutonium.

[tinmenace]

Of course this goes back to the age old argument of whether Israel should ever have been created in the first place. I have not seen any legitimate reasoning for it's creation, yet.

So, the argument of them having the right to defend themselves doesn't work for me.

Pakistan and India have nuclear abilities, and so does Israel (and they haven't even signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, unlike Iran, btw), so why can't Syria have the same?

Israel is the new guard dog of the near east, along with it's bitch, the USA?

[nikolaijovanovic]

Hells bells. It is irrevevant whether Israel should exist. It does. Tough, get used to it. Of course Iran, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon are also what you might term 'artificial states' in that the did not exist until after world war 1, but were created by the occupiers.

India and Pakistan don't want to rock the boat. Syria and Iran do. Used to be called real politic.
And the Syrians and Iranians are not too keen on Florida from what I have gathered......

Of course Israel is the guard dog. 'kin 'ell, you pay for them. he who pays the piper...........

[ssyx]

The right not to have a nuclear armed enemy next door.

Does Syria have that right?

[nikolaijovanovic]

Does Syria have that right?

Nope. The Soviets did not trust them enough.

The analogy goes like this. You have 2 people in a pub. Each one knows the other has a stick. they are unlikely to fight because they wil both get hit (MAD). You have 300 people in a pub, each one has stick. But one might think their stick is better. The chances of a fight increase. Hence the proliferation of nuclear weapons is not a good thing.

[tinmenace]

Hells bells. It is irrevevant whether Israel should exist.


No, it is relevant because it is the cause for a lot of suffering on this planet today.


It does. Tough, get used to it.

What? Is that your standard reply? It's a bullshit response, y'know?

Of course Iran, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon are also what you might term 'artificial states' in that the did not exist until after world war 1, but were created by the occupiers.

Yar, and Israel was NOT created by the occupiers. Israel was created as part of the Zionist agenda and the given reasoning behind it is utter bullshit and folklore, which is being pumped down the rest of the world's throats. Not very fair, is it?

India and Pakistan don't want to rock the boat.

Well that's because they're run by people that suck loomie dick for a living. They're not independent thinkers or true leaders. They're puppets. It's obvious.

Syria and Iran do.

And how do you know this? Have you been to Syria and Iran? Do the majority of the people on the street want nuclear war? I think not.

Used to be called real politic.
And the Syrians and Iranians are not too keen on Florida from what I have gathered......

What does that mean? Is that a lame-dick attempt to scare me? :rolleyes:

Of course Israel is the guard dog. 'kin 'ell, you pay for them. he who pays the piper...........

Guard dog of what exactly?




.

[ssyx]

....the proliferation of nuclear weapons is not a good thing.

I completely agree with this.

I just find it hard to stomach when a nuclear power is the one spouting this kind of thing.
Why not lead by example?

[ssyx]

Hells bells. It is irrevevant whether Israel should exist. It does. Tough, get used to it.

It is irrelevant what happened on 911, we are at war now. Get used to it...

[tinmenace]

It is irrelevant what happened on 911, we are at war now. Get used to it...


"Get used to it" Cute! :rolleyes:

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3907/aefartingre7.gif

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9717/cryingwithlaughterub0.gif

[nikolaijovanovic]

No, it is relevant because it is the cause for a lot of suffering on this planet today.

From the palestinian side, granted. But who exactly are blowing themselves up in Tel Aviv? Are the Israelis immune from suffering?


It does. Tough, get used to it.

What? Is that your standard reply? It's a bullshit response, y'know?

Well, no. It is a fact. Why is it bullshit?

Of course Iran, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon are also what you might term 'artificial states' in that the did not exist until after world war 1, but were created by the occupiers.

Yar, and Israel was NOT created by the occupiers. Israel was created as part of the Zionist agenda and the given reasoning behind it is utter bullshit and folklore, which is being pumped down the rest of the world's throats. Not very fair, is it?

Testicles. Israel was part of the Balfour declaration in the 1920's. The same time as the maps were redrawn. Ever wondered why there are all those straight lines? Muppet.

India and Pakistan don't want to rock the boat.

Well that's because they're run by people that suck loomie dick for a living. They're not independent thinkers or true leaders. They're puppets. It's obvious.
And how do you know this? Have you been to Syria and Iran? Do the majority of the people on the street want nuclear war? I think not.

Ok, you are talking about the Arab street. the ones who shout death to America. Nuclear war is not a problem if you want to die to meet god anyway. But, we (in the west) are considered 'Kaffir' and not worthy of the life we have now.

Used to be called real politic.
And the Syrians and Iranians are not too keen on Florida from what I have gathered......

What does that mean? Is that a lame-dick attempt to scare me?

Right.... You for real? Stuff like that makes you come across as a cock end. Besides you seem scared enough. BOO!:D

Of course Israel is the guard dog. 'kin 'ell, you pay for them. he who pays the piper...........

Guard dog of what exactly?

American political interest you dullard.

[nikolaijovanovic]

It is irrelevant what happened on 911, we are at war now. Get used to it...

911? Wasn't that a boy band from the states? Or am I getting confused with New Edition?

Anyway, sadly, you are right. Amazing for a cockney.:D

[tinmenace]

No, it is relevant because it is the cause for a lot of suffering on this planet today.

From the palestinian side, granted. But who exactly are blowing themselves up in Tel Aviv? Are the Israelis immune from suffering?


It does. Tough, get used to it.

What? Is that your standard reply? It's a bullshit response, y'know?

Well, no. It is a fact. Why is it bullshit?

Of course Iran, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon are also what you might term 'artificial states' in that the did not exist until after world war 1, but were created by the occupiers.

Yar, and Israel was NOT created by the occupiers. Israel was created as part of the Zionist agenda and the given reasoning behind it is utter bullshit and folklore, which is being pumped down the rest of the world's throats. Not very fair, is it?

Testicles. Israel was part of the Balfour declaration in the 1920's. The same time as the maps were redrawn. Ever wondered why there are all those straight lines? Muppet.

India and Pakistan don't want to rock the boat.

Well that's because they're run by people that suck loomie dick for a living. They're not independent thinkers or true leaders. They're puppets. It's obvious.
And how do you know this? Have you been to Syria and Iran? Do the majority of the people on the street want nuclear war? I think not.

Ok, you are talking about the Arab street. the ones who shout death to America. Nuclear war is not a problem if you want to die to meet god anyway. But, we (in the west) are considered 'Kaffir' and not worthy of the life we have now.

Used to be called real politic.
And the Syrians and Iranians are not too keen on Florida from what I have gathered......

What does that mean? Is that a lame-dick attempt to scare me?

Right.... You for real? Stuff like that makes you come across as a cock end. Besides you seem scared enough. BOO!:D

Of course Israel is the guard dog. 'kin 'ell, you pay for them. he who pays the piper...........

Guard dog of what exactly?

American political interest you dullard.



A "muppet" and a "dullard"?

So, you resort to name calling? What kind of debater are you? The troll type, me thinks :rolleyes: You're not worth my time or energy. You've got a strapped mind. You need to read a few of David's books so that you can get a grip on the reality behind the OFFICIAL version of history and events that seem to dominate your thinking.

The matrix has you. I hope you find a way to free yourself.

Good luck to ya. :)

[resistance]

A "muppet" and a "dullard"?

So, you resort to name calling? What kind of debater are you? The troll type, me thinks :rolleyes: You're not worth my time or energy. You've got a strapped mind. You need to read a few of David's books so that you can get a grip on the reality behind the OFFICIAL version of history and events that seem to dominate your thinking.

The matrix has you. I hope you find a way to free yourself.

Good luck to ya. :)





I agree, this person has been posting rubbish for a while now, they are either a Zionist sympathizer or simply ill informed, i can't work out which? whatever the case something aint quite right?

[tinmenace]

I agree, this person has been posting rubbish for a while now, they are either a Zionist sympathizer or simply ill informed, i can't work out which? whatever the case something aint quite right?

Prolly both!

Who's that cutie in your avatar? :D

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/taz3.jpg

[resistance]

Prolly both!

Who's that cutie in your avatar? :D

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/taz3.jpg




Hi, the beastie in my avatar is my dog taz, a real tear away really, just like me:D
do tu wanna see more pics?

[tinmenace]

Hi, the beastie in my avatar is my dog taz, a real tear away really, just like me:D
do tu wanna see more pics?

Yes pwease. There's a special INFINITELY CUTE BEASTIE thread HERE (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3903). Put them there so that everyone can find Taz ;)

[ssyx]

911? Wasn't that a boy band from the states? Or am I getting confused with New Edition?

Anyway, sadly, you are right. Amazing for a co ckney.:D

I'm not a co ckney nikolai, just happen to be in London at the minute.
Actually I think my statement about 911 is far from right. Your logic seems to be a universal, "thats the way it is. Tough aint it".
How will anything ever be different with that kind of acceptance?
Why are you on these forums if that is your style my friend?

P.S. Im on the PC at work, co ckney is obviously offensive to it. Reasons for my spacing. :)

[nikolaijovanovic]

A "muppet" and a "dullard"?

So, you resort to name calling? What kind of debater are you? The troll type, me thinks :rolleyes: You're not worth my time or energy. You've got a strapped mind. You need to read a few of David's books so that you can get a grip on the reality behind the OFFICIAL version of history and events that seem to dominate your thinking.

The matrix has you. I hope you find a way to free yourself.

Good luck to ya. :)



Thank you. I truly hope I can escape the matrix. Sorry if I offended you. However lame dicks were not introduced by me....

Sorry but David's books don't really cut it for me. However interesting forum....

[nikolaijovanovic]

I agree, this person has been posting rubbish for a while now, they are either a Zionist sympathizer or simply ill informed, i can't work out which? whatever the case something aint quite right?

No I'm a capricorn. Or am I a disinformation agent? Or a Fraggle?

"Something ain't quite right". :rolleyes: What, beacause I disagree with you?

Rubbish? Well that largely depends on yout point of view. I, for example consider barely hidden anti semitism (yes, I know semites applies to the Arab lands too) to be unpleasant. But I suppose it is a matter of opinion.

But it strikes me your positions are every bit entrenched as you think mine are.

[tinmenace]

Sorry but David's books don't really cut it for me.

I always find that so interesting. People that have no interest in David's work, but they hang out on his forum.

I don't have any interest in stamp collecting or bedazzling, and so, I would never hang out on a stamp collecting or bedazzling forum.

To be polite I'd have to say that I cannot understand what people, that have no interest in David's work, are doing on his forum, but polite won't cut it anymore. I KNOW what these people are doing here, and it starts with a "T"

It's very obvious.

[nikolaijovanovic]

I'm not a co ckney nikolai, just happen to be in London at the minute.
Actually I think my statement about 911 is far from right. Your logic seems to be a universal, "thats the way it is. Tough aint it".
How will anything ever be different with that kind of acceptance?
Why are you on these forums if that is your style my friend?

P.S. Im on the PC at work, co ckney is obviously offensive to it. Reasons for my spacing. :)

Sorry Pal! Should have thought about the firewall.:o

Are you mistaking 'what we would like' with what we have been given with 9/11? I did not mean It has happened, that is that, I meant that is what we have got. "The public wants what the public gets". Thought I had made myslef clear, but obviously not.

Why am I on these forums? good question. There are lots of posters who have very different opinions to mine, and on the whole been very accepting and interesting. Even if I disagree ( I do, in the main) it does encourage thinking. That is good. There are others (not you) who are quite frankly loons and borderline Fascisti. Just like society at large. But like society, what is the point of surrounding yourself with people who already share your belief system? You will never experience a different point of view. Unless you want to sit in a bubble, that is, in which case I'll fook off.

[nikolaijovanovic]

I always find that so interesting. People that have no interest in David's work, but they hang out on his forum.

I don't have any interest in stamp collecting or bedazzling, and so, I would never hang out on a stamp collecting or bedazzling forum.

To be polite I'd have to say that I cannot understand what people, that have no interest in David's work, are doing on his forum, but polite won't cut it anymore. I KNOW what these people are doing here, and it starts with a "T"

It's very obvious.







Don't be polite, get to the point, I won't be offended. See post above. might explain it.

[neutron flux]

From the palestinian side, granted. But who exactly are blowing themselves up in Tel Aviv? Are the Israelis immune from suffering?


Hmm, who are blowing themselves up in Tel Aviv and the rest? May I suggest it is Mossad and their false-flags?

What is clear is that in order to accept the claims that every attack was the work of a "suicide bomber", we must dispense with all critical judgment and think in simplistic black and white terms. Palestinians = terrorists. Israelis = peace keepers and defenders. We are being asked to believe, without question, the claims of the Israeli security forces, organisations that are founded on the 'principles' of deception and subterfuge.

What is beyond doubt is that it would be very easy for Israeli intelligence to stage a fake "suicide bombing". A bomb could be concealed in the chosen location, and when the chosen patsy enters or approaches, the bomb is detonated, with Israeli security forces quickly arriving on the scene to declare the cause and tie up any loose ends.

Most people have by now been sufficiently programmed to believe that "Islamic terrorists" wish to destroy Israel, but are reluctant to constate that Israel would never have attained its dominant position in the Middle East without an ongoing "terrorist threat" to its existence. In short, Israel needs terrorism.

The problem of course is that a real war with a real threat is not desirable because of the unpredictability of the outcome. So, in the case of Israel, when it has utterly destroyed the real threat, a more manageable and predictable 'homegrown' threat must be maintained. The Israeli government, with its complete control of the lives of not only the Palestinian people but also that of the Israeli people, has all of the means to stage-manage the no-longer-existent "Palestinian terrorist threat to its existence", and it does so with great skill, not least because of the significant control that is exerted over the mainstream media:

Thursday July 20, 2006
Associated Press Writer

JERUSALEM (AP) - Here's some news you may never hear about Israel's war against Hezbollah: a missile falls into the sea, a strategic military installation is hit, a Cabinet minister plans to visit the front lines.

All these topics are subject to review by Israel's chief military censor, who has - in her own words - "extraordinary power." She can silence a broadcaster, block information and put journalists in jail.

"I can, for example, publish an order that no material can be published. I can close a newspaper or shut down a station. I can do almost anything," Col. Sima Vaknin said Wednesday. [...]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/19/AR2006071901674.html

[eternal_spirit]

Israel's Mossad
http://judicial-inc.biz/False_15.jpg
Black Ops and False Flags

http://judicial-inc.biz/False_Flags_summary.htm

I've posted this before but it's one of the best explanations I've seen.

[tinmenace]

Don't be polite, get to the point, I won't be offended. See post above. might explain it.


http://www.globalfailure.com/images/interruptignore.jpg

[resistance]

No I'm a capricorn. Or am I a disinformation agent? Or a Fraggle?

"Something ain't quite right". :rolleyes: What, beacause I disagree with you?

Rubbish? Well that largely depends on yout point of view. I, for example consider barely hidden anti semitism (yes, I know semites applies to the Arab lands too) to be unpleasant. But I suppose it is a matter of opinion.

But it strikes me your positions are every bit entrenched as you think mine are.

I'm not getting involved in arguments and its got nothing to do with not listening tu other peoples different views, i'm cool with that:) however i think some peoples views are bollox and sometimes i let them know. Conclusion, Black ops and false flags me thinks.

[john67]

Don't feed the troll people, the buggers keep coming back :cool:

[klinker]

December?

[umbrex]

taadaaa

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6917&highlight=james777

[adimon]

Hmm, who are blowing themselves up in Tel Aviv and the rest? May I suggest it is Mossad and their false-flags?

What is clear is that in order to accept the claims that every attack was the work of a "suicide bomber", we must dispense with all critical judgment and think in simplistic black and white terms. Palestinians = terrorists. Israelis = peace keepers and defenders. We are being asked to believe, without question, the claims of the Israeli security forces, organisations that are founded on the 'principles' of deception and subterfuge.

What is beyond doubt is that it would be very easy for Israeli intelligence to stage a fake "suicide bombing". A bomb could be concealed in the chosen location, and when the chosen patsy enters or approaches, the bomb is detonated, with Israeli security forces quickly arriving on the scene to declare the cause and tie up any loose ends.

Most people have by now been sufficiently programmed to believe that "Islamic terrorists" wish to destroy Israel, but are reluctant to constate that Israel would never have attained its dominant position in the Middle East without an ongoing "terrorist threat" to its existence. In short, Israel needs terrorism.

The problem of course is that a real war with a real threat is not desirable because of the unpredictability of the outcome. So, in the case of Israel, when it has utterly destroyed the real threat, a more manageable and predictable 'homegrown' threat must be maintained. The Israeli government, with its complete control of the lives of not only the Palestinian people but also that of the Israeli people, has all of the means to stage-manage the no-longer-existent "Palestinian terrorist threat to its existence", and it does so with great skill, not least because of the significant control that is exerted over the mainstream media

What you say is largely true. The Palestinian terror groups don't pose much of a threat to Israel, who are responsible for a lot of unnecessary and unethical aggression, and accountable for many lives. However, dissolution of Israel is not going to occur, so an alternative solution must be found, in order to establish peace.

Do any of the posters here have their own views on suggested terms of compromise and peace?

[seanyboy]

If this was Syria that did an airstrike against nuclear reactor in Israel, OMFG, WW3 would erupt. The fucking hypocrisy of it all! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


I have to say i totally agree TinMemnace, the hypocasy of the western world and the middle eastern puppet 'Israel' where it is alright for those countires to have nuclear power and capability but not for Iran or Syria.

And the popular argument of " well they have a vast wealth of oil and gas" holds no water as what is the USA's reason for nuclear power as they also are a massive oil producer!!:confused:

[nikolaijovanovic]

The question of the thread was "What right did Israel have to do this..."

The answer is because they can. As I have alluded to in my previous witterings.

The reason the US wants oil and has Nuclear power is a bit more complex. Nuclear Power makes electricity. And the by product makes bombs. Hence being less than happy that unstable nations want it. We do not want everyone to have the bomb.

But Oil is key to everything. Ever wondered what makes fertiliser (apart from Nitrogen)? What keeps Pistons turning? What makes the plastic you are typing on? Yep oil. Without it the industrial world has great difficulty in carrying on.

[revolutionary_jam]

I have not seen any legitimate reasoning for it's creation...

...So, the argument of them having the right to defend themselves doesn't work for me...

2+2 does not equal 5.

That aside, this wasn't a defensive strike, it was offensive, they had no right to do it, and as per usual, no other country would get away with it except for israel :rolleyes: whats new?

[alchemy]

Nikolai, great to see a voice of reality and fact in a place from the looks of things, very scarce of any. And someone willing to stand up to the blatant anti-semitism present.

Israel has had nuclear weapons for 30 years and has never used them and never will unless militarily attacked. They just ask to exist and be left alone.

Syria and Iran are dictatorships, unstable ones at that. Allowing them to build nuclear weapons would like allowing the town's half-crazy, belligerent alcoholic a gun licence.:eek:

[neutron flux]

Nikolai, great to see a voice of reality and fact in a place from the looks of things, very scarce of any. And someone willing to stand up to the blatant anti-semitism present.


Do you think you could point out this "blantant anti-semitism"?

Israel has had nuclear weapons for 30 years and has never used them and never will unless militarily attacked. They just ask to exist and be left alone.


The mere fact that they have not used nuclear weapons in the past in no way means that they wouldn't use them in the future. A false flag would set that up easily. Palestinians wouldn't mind being left alone instead of being caged like animals with an ILLEGAL wall and houses bulldozed and children being shot and imprisoned etc.

Syria and Iran are dictatorships, unstable ones at that. Allowing them to build nuclear weapons would like allowing the town's half-crazy, belligerent alcoholic a gun licence.

Apart from the fact that if Iran wanted to build a nuclear device they are a good 10 YEARS away from doing so, why is Isreal allowed to have nuclear weapons and Iran isn't? How is 1 bomb going to be a match to the 200 Isreal has?

Where do you get your information Fox News?

[peachped]

The right not to have a nuclear armed enemy next door. NUCLEAR ARMED ENEMY SUCH AS ISRAELYOU FOOL???Quite simple really. Remind me, which middle eastern nation has been attcked 4 times since 1945? Not too difficult to understand their paranoia.

More to the point why does Syria want nuclear weapons? To defend themselves from Iran? The US? Or is it not really for defence? NO - TO DEFEND THEMSELVES FROM USUKISRAEL YOU STUPID IDIOT!Makes a good negotiating position for the Golan Heights though.

Before anyone says "It is to generate electricity" They don't need nuclear power. Fair bit of Oil around there, and a byproduct of power generation is plutonium.

What an ignoramus. :mad:

[revolutionary_jam]

Do any of the posters here have their own views on suggested terms of compromise and peace?

There would be peace if the "powers that be" wanted there to be peace, but they don't and never have so there hasn't and won't. The Israeli government is controlled by mad zealots who either believe they are gods chosen people and have the innate right to the land of others, or are "illuminati" or whatever you want to call it and have no regard for people, only they agenda which involves the same ends. The Pallestinian administrations have been largely corrupt and/or powerless to deal with the problems facing them, or just don't actually care about poor people and like their power and money.

If the $7,000,000 a day that Israel recieves in aid from america was spent on peace and development of palestine instead of weapons there wouldn't be a conflict or a pallestinian who wanted to harm a government that built a roof over his head and the heads of his neighbours, a one state solution would emerge naturally.

[umbrex]

alc and nik ..get your heads out your arses


liek now!!!

[revolutionary_jam]

They just ask to exist and be left alone. Yer, left alone to conduct the slow but gradual genocide of the palestinian people :rolleyes:

[alchemy]

Apart from the fact that if Iran wanted to build a nuclear device they are a good 10 YEARS away from doing so, why is Isreal allowed to have nuclear weapons and Iran isn't? How is 1 bomb going to be a match to the 200 Isreal has?

Where do you get your information Fox News?

You obviously don't read or watch up to date news. Otherwise you would have heard that some analysts and commentators this week believe that Iran could have a nuclear device in little more than a year.

And where do you get 200 nukes from! LOL

Yer, left alone to conduct the slow but gradual genocide of the palestinian people

The Palestinians and Israelis could have lived in peace with each having their own homeland but the Palestinians didn't want to, they wanted it all, and attacked Israel along with other Arab states in '48. Remarkably Israel survived and the Palestinians lost. There's a lesson there: don't be greedy or you risk losing it all.

[emerald]

You obviously don't read or watch up to date news. Otherwise you would have heard that some analysts and commentators this week believe that Iran could have a nuclear device in little more than a year.

And where do you get 200 nukes from! LOL



The Palestinians and Israelis could have lived in peace with each having their own homeland but the Palestinians didn't want to, they wanted it all, and attacked Israel along with other Arab states in '48. Remarkably Israel survived and the Palestinians lost. There's a lesson there: don't be greedy or you risk losing it all.

Who isnt up to date with news? So Palestinians were greedy? It makes me really laugh it it wouldnt be so tragic. Any other coment is useless. Shame on u.:mad:

[neutron flux]

You obviously don't read or watch up to date news. Otherwise you would have heard that some analysts and commentators this week believe that Iran could have a nuclear device in little more than a year.



Really? Because in the up to date news CHIEF UN atomic watchdog Mohamed ElBaradei said overnight he had no evidence Iran was building nuclear weapons and accused US leaders of adding "fuel to the fire" with recent bellicose rhetoric.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22664498-5005961,00.html

And where do you get 200 nukes from! LOL



Even back in 2000 the BBC were reporting Isreal having up to 200 nukes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/892941.stm

But according to retired US Army Colonel Warner D. Farr, M.D., Israel is the fifth largest nuclear superpower in the world. By 1967, Israel already had 15 atomic bombs in its arsenal. In 1976, their nuclear arsenal grew to 15 to 20 nukes, and by 1980 jumped to 200. According to Farr, in 1997, Israel now has over 400 nuclear and hydrogen weapons.

[kblood]

You obviously don't read or watch up to date news. Otherwise you would have heard that some analysts and commentators this week believe that Iran could have a nuclear device in little more than a year.

And where do you get 200 nukes from! LOL

Well, you obviously watch the news too much, and doesnt keep a heads up. It has been on this forum for a while, and I heard the first rumours 3-4 years ago, that Iran is the next target of the US war engine. Maybe they will have nuclear weapons, maybe they wont, but the US is going to need a better excuse for bombing them to the stone age, than the non-existant excuse they had for attacking Iraq. Hopefully Iraq will recover and maybe get a better kind of government for the people in Iraq, but USA certainly did not do it for the people in Iraq.

Any news about Iran might just be preparation for that very war.


The Palestinians and Israelis could have lived in peace with each having their own homeland but the Palestinians didn't want to, they wanted it all, and attacked Israel along with other Arab states in '48. Remarkably Israel survived and the Palestinians lost. There's a lesson there: don't be greedy or you risk losing it all.

Remarkably Israel won? Israel was not the only thing the jews were given, they were also given state of the art military equipment, some very well experienced war leaders and probably all the intelligence they would need to win those 4 wars they won. They won those 4 wars, because they either intercepted all attacks made against them, or made pre-emtive attacks to prevent attacks, like taking out the Eqyptian air fields. Thereby giving Israel control of the air.

Another thing not taking into account is the fact the many of the Palestinians who do suicide bombings, do so to help their families. They have drought and famine to worry about, but some suicide bombers are promished to have their families taken well care of if they do it. I do not really believe it is other Palestinians who are able to make such promises to them either... Not sure who is making them do it, but being a poor suppressed people, they are easier to control.

Israel is where it is for one reason alone, and that is because USA allows it, and they are allies. Officially they do not seem to help each other directly. USA has obviously supplied Isreal with weapons, but they do not offer troop support as far as I know. They do most likely share the intel they gather though. Seems to me that Israel must have had some nice satalite footage from the US to win those four wars like they did f.ex.

[revolutionary_jam]

YThe Palestinians and Israelis could have lived in peace with each having their own homeland but the Palestinians didn't want to, they wanted it all, and attacked Israel along with other Arab states in '48. Remarkably Israel survived and the Palestinians lost. There's a lesson there: don't be greedy or you risk losing it all.

Sorry but thats not actually what happened.

[kblood]

Who isnt up to date with news? So Palestinians were greedy? It makes me really laugh it it wouldnt be so tragic. Any other coment is useless. Shame on u.:mad:


I have to agree with this. How is it being greedy to want the land back that was taken away from you? Oh yes, maybe jews had lived in that country many years ago, but the Palestinians lived there only a few years ago. Because of politics that makes no sense, the palestinians now have 173 of the country they used to have, and at the same time, it seems Israel is controlling the small part of land they still have. They have every right in the world to be angry at Israel, even though it does not justify the bombings.

[octopusrex]

Nikolai,

The guys in a pub with a stick analogy works only partly. Here is why: in trade, nuclear weapons give you an edge. The economies of the world are not fair because some folks carry a big stick and others do not.

The Falklands come to mind.

The procurement of weapons is fair game for all. Trying to stop your neighbor from procuring them is also fair game.

Don't be surprized if during the game we all get killed.

What would the USA do if Mexico procured WMDs?

You would agree with me, certainly, that the "nuclear club" can be expanded? The black market insures that ANYBODY can get a nuke. Even a lone-nut with enough money.

[veritas2007]

You obviously don't read or watch up to date news. Otherwise you would have heard that some analysts and commentators this week believe that Iran could have a nuclear device in little more than a year.


I must say, I find that comment somewhat naiive. If I may counter that with "WMD"???

The old, botched GWB quote springs to mind "Fool me once........" :)

Might I suggest some reading?

John Pilger - Freedom Next Time

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GQYzyC2lL._AA240_.jpg

Freedom Next Time: Amazon.co.uk: John Pilger: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51dBIIN-gUL.@@AMEPARAM@@51dBIIN-gUL

[kblood]

By the way, it wasnt a nuclear bomb they were making, but a nuclear power plant, which would make it possible to make a nuclear bomb.

[umbrex]

The US supplied the nuclear tech for the pakistanis

the pakistanis sold the nuketech to north korea.

BUT OMGWTFLOLZ, IRAN IS THE DEVIL, THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED BECAUSE IT FITS INTO OUR ZIONIST AGENDA

ANd who the hell are the US (israel) to dictate that a sovereign nation can't have that kind of technology.. even if they are going to make the bomb, they are entitled to.. look at the landmap.. almost all the countries surrounding them have some. But the rhetorics in politics and media indices a clear bias in the sheeple (like alc), creating an imaginary threat..

[tinmenace]

The US supplied the nuclear tech for the pakistanis

the pakistanis sold the nuketech to north korea.

BUT OMGWTFLOLZ, IRAN IS THE DEVIL, THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED BECAUSE IT FITS INTO OUR ZIONIST AGENDA

ANd who the hell are the US (israel) to dictate that a sovereign nation can't have that kind of technology.. even if they are going to make the bomb, they are entitled to.. look at the landmap.. almost all the countries surrounding them have some. But the rhetorics in politics and media indices a clear bias in the sheeple (like alc), creating an imaginary threat..

Precisely!

[thelyran]

The right not to have a nuclear armed enemy next door. Quite simple really. Remind me, which middle eastern nation has been attcked 4 times since 1945? Not too difficult to understand their paranoia.

More to the point why does Syria want nuclear weapons? To defend themselves from Iran? The US? Or is it not really for defence? Makes a good negotiating position for the Golan Heights though.

Before anyone says "It is to generate electricity" They don't need nuclear power. Fair bit of Oil around there, and a byproduct of power generation is plutonium.
Would you be so kind to give the dates of these first terrorist/military strikes...I'm sure you will find...Israel was not recognised as a soveriegn nation till 1947...you're 2 years in error and biased to anyone elses solution.
The first middle-eastern terrorist attack occurred in French Algiers,1948,in the King David Hotel...by a right-wing Zionist(not a normal Jew...probably not even Jewish...but french!)...dressed as an Arab!
Don't mention the USS Liberty...a spy ship Israel tried to destroy during the 6 day war...why?,to prevent the USA forcing Israel to negotiate peace,as she achieved her pre-emptive strike with Egypt,but had'nt achieved her land grab...The Golan Heights as you mentioned...
Sure,you are not flying the wrong flag???should there not be a little star of David there...except for your nuclear debate,you have'nt got a pot to piss in...
Cry to the Anti-defammation league...with the other 12foot Draco's...
*All hale the King Of The North....Magog,have fun...shooting this one down

[thelyran]

Nikolai, great to see a voice of reality and fact in a place from the looks of things, very scarce of any. And someone willing to stand up to the blatant anti-semitism present.

Israel has had nuclear weapons for 30 years and has never used them and never will unless militarily attacked. They just ask to exist and be left alone.

Syria and Iran are dictatorships, unstable ones at that. Allowing them to build nuclear weapons would like allowing the town's half-crazy, belligerent alcoholic a gun licence.:eek:

Refer to above reply for the facts.....no need to repeat

[thelyran]

Israel is the Premiere Terrorist State...simple.
It is run by the plutocrats of USA and Europe.
It's parliament has no Jewish representatives.
The Jews are not a race,but a religeon....
It was formed by breaking a deal with the Palestinians....Palestine was to be recognised as a state during the closure of WW2.
UK and USA reneged,on the deal,realising the value of oil...formed Israel to keep the arabs in check.....
It is an Illuminati State...the only value,manipulating the beliefs of both sides,in the struggle for a homeland....
The Kabbalah....is no different from Freemasonary and the Golden Dawn
The Jewish belief/religeous system,is the closest alignment to the reptiles doctrine...
They take their social views from The Talmud,Torah...even in it's own passages,it says,if the Gentile learned of our plans...he would surely put us to death...why is that???
*now go read the protocols of The Elders Of Zion...long believed to be a work of fiction...read it,written about 1889(from Memory)...now look at their foreign policy today...still not convinced?...by the way,how you going with the neighbours in Chechyna?heading for another Afghanistan are we???
Cut the chechynans on the deal,instead of force...might find your country peace....

[thelyran]

You obviously don't read or watch up to date news. Otherwise you would have heard that some analysts and commentators this week believe that Iran could have a nuclear device in little more than a year.

And where do you get 200 nukes from! LOL



The Palestinians and Israelis could have lived in peace with each having their own homeland but the Palestinians didn't want to, they wanted it all, and attacked Israel along with other Arab states in '48. Remarkably Israel survived and the Palestinians lost. There's a lesson there: don't be greedy or you risk losing it all.

You need this....READ MY LIPS....SADDAM HAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION....
same media/news source...you are quoting for the belief,that Iran is one year away from producing electricity and weapons from Nuclear sources....
Stick with the underground media movement in the USA...stuff like Eric Hufschmid,Alex Jones....and my favourite,Anthony J Hilder...
Then hopefully you may add to the community in a positive way...I'm starting to get the feel of this forum...suspecting there are agents of disinformation....I'll weed you people out....and expose you for what you are.

[phantom]

nikolaijovanovic, "Remind me, which middle eastern nation has been attcked 4 times since 1945?"

Have you read this?

Begins Admission in 1982 That Israel Started Three of Its Wars (http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0794/9407073.htm)

By Donald Neff

It was 12 years ago when Prime Minister Menachem Begin admitted in public that Israel had fought three wars in which it had a "choice," meaning Israel started the wars. Begin's admission came in a speech delivered on Aug. 8, 1982, before the Israeli National Defense College. His purpose was to defuse mounting criticism of Israel's invasion of Lebanon, which had begun two months earlier on June 5 and was clearly one of Israel's wars of "choice." The others were in 1956 and 1967.

At the time of Begin's speech, the Israeli siege of Muslim West Beirut was already five weeks old. Israeli U.S.-made aircraft were launching daily air strikes and hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians throughout the country were being killed, wounded, starved, terrorized and uprooted from their homes, most of them by munitions made in America. On July 29, the United Nations Security Council demanded that Israel lift its siege. Only the United States abstained in the 14-0 vote.1 When Israel refused, the council voted again on Aug. 4 to censure Israel with a vote of 14-0, with the U.S. again abstaining.2 On Aug. 6, the United States exercised its veto to block a council resolution condemning Israel's occupation practices, the sixth time in 1982 the Reagan administration had used the veto to shield Israel from international criticism.3

Despite the Reagan administration's lonely support of Israel, there was increasing disillusionment within Israel itself at the terrible toll being inflicted on Lebanese civilians. An estimated 10,000 Israelis had already staged a protest rally in Tel Aviv as early as June 26.4 Another hundred thousand Israelis demonstrated against Begin's government on July 3 under the banner of Peace Now. Other antiwar groups—Yesh Givul (There is a Limit), Soldiers Against Silence, Parents Against Silence—soon sprang up as the siege continued.5

The anti-war mood increased when Israeli Colonel Eli Geva, head of an elite armored brigade involved in Israel's invasion of Lebanon, resigned his commission in July to protest the siege of Beirut. It was the first time that a senior Israeli officer had ever resigned in protest during any of Israel's wars .6 When Prime Minister Begin asked Geva why he had refused to continue in the siege, the tankman replied that he could see children when he looked through his binoculars into Beirut. "Did you receive an order to kill children?" snapped Begin. No, said Geva. "Then what are you complaining about?" demanded the prime minister. 7 Yesh Givul became the strongest of the groups, with 2,000 reservists eventually signing a petition not to serve in Lebanon; 150 of them were court martialed.8

In his speech to Israeli security experts on Aug. 8, the prime minister sought to counter these growing anti-war protests by enlisting the military's support. His method was to link the unpopular war in Lebanon with Israel's triumphant victories in 1956 and 1967, which he was careful to point out were also wars of "choice." Now, Begin said, Israel was involved in another war of choice that would finally bring victorious peace.

Excerpts from Begin's speech:

"The Second World War, which broke out on Sept. 1, 1939, actually began on March 7, 1936. If only France, without Britain (which had some excellent combat divisions), had attacked the aggressor, there would have remained no trace of Nazi German power and a war which, in three years, changed the whole of human history, would have been prevented. This, therefore, is the international example that explains what is war without choice, or a war of one's choosing.

"Let us turn from the international example to ourselves. Operation Peace for Galilee [the Israeli name for the invasion of Lebanon] is not a military operation resulting from the lack of an alternative. The terrorists did not threaten the existence of the state of Israel; they 'only' threatened the lives of Israel's citizens and members of the Jewish people. There are those who find fault with the second part of that sentence. If there was no danger to the existence of the state, why did you go to war?

"I will explain why: We had three wars which we fought without an alternative. The first, the war of independence, which began on Nov. 30, 1947 and lasted until January 1949. What happened in that war, which we went off to fight with no alternative? Six thousand of our fighters were killed. We were then 650,000 Jews in Eretz Israel, and the number fallen amounted to about 1 percent of the Jewish population.

"The second war of no alternative was the Yom Kippur War and the war of attrition that preceded it. Our total casualties in that war of no alternative were 2,297 killed, 6,067 wounded. Together with the war of attrition—which was also a war of no alternative—2,659 killed, 7,251 wounded. The terrible total: almost 10,000 casualties.

"Our other wars were not without an alternative. In November 1956 we had a choice. The reason for going to war then was the need to destroy the fedayeen, who did not represent a danger to the existence of the state. Thus we went off to the Sinai campaign. At that time we conquered most of the Sinai Peninsula and reached Sharm el Sheikh. Actually, we accepted and submitted to an American dictate, mainly regarding the Gaza Strip (which Ben-Gurion called 'the liberated portion of the homeland'). John Foster Dulles, the then-secretary of state, promised Ben-Gurion that an Egyptian army would not return to Gaza. The Egyptian army did enter Gaza .... After 1957, Israel had to wait 10 full years for its flag to fly again over that liberated portion of the homeland.

"In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him. This was a war of self-defense in the noblest sense of the term. The Government of National Unity then established decided unanimously: we will take the initiative and attack the enemy, drive him back, and thus assure the security of Israel and the future of the nation.

"As for the Operation Peace for Galilee [the invasion of Lebanon], it does not really belong to the category of wars of no alternative. We could have gone on seeing our civilians injured in Metulla or Qiryat Shimona or Nahariya. We could have gone on countering those killed by explosive charges left in a Jerusalem supermarket, or a Petah Tikvah bus stop. All the orders to carry out these acts of murder and sabotage came from Beirut .... True, such actions were not a threat to the existence of the state. But they did threaten the lives of civilians. whose numbers we cannot estimate, day after day, week after week, month after month....

"I—we—can already look beyond the fighting. It will soon be over, we hope, and then I believe, indeed I know, we will have a long period of peace. There is no other country around us that is capable of attacking us."9

In reality, it took nearly three more years before Israel was able to disengage its forces. On the third anniversary of the invasion, after suffering 610 dead, Israel withdrew most of its forces from Lebanon, leaving a residual team of about 2,000 combat troops to retain control of a "security belt" in southern Lebanon. The occupied land amounted to nine percent of Lebanon's territory, adding yet several hundred square miles more to the list of Arab land Israel had expanded on since 1948.10

Donald Neff is author of the Warriors trilogy on U.S. Middle East Handbook, a chronological data bank of significant events affecting U.S. policy and the Middle East on which this article is based. His books are available through the AET Book Club.

Recommended Reading:

Flapan, Simha, The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities, New York, Pantheon Books, 1987.

Glubb Pasha (Sir John Bagot Glubb), A Soldier with the Arabs, London, Hodder and Stoughton, 1957.

Hirst, David, The Gun and the Olive Branch: The Roots of Violence in the Middle East, New York, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1977.

Khalidi, Walid, From Haven to Conquest: Readings in Zionism and the Palestine Problem until 1948, Washington, DC, Institute for Palestine Studies, 1987.

Morris, Benny, The Birth of the Palestine Refugee Problem, New York, Cambridge University Press, 1987.

Nakhleh, Issa, Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem (2 vols), New York, Intercontinental Books, 1991.

Palumbo, Michael, The Palestinian Catastrophe: The 1948 Expulsion of a People From their Homeland, Boston, Faber and Faber, 1987.

Quigley, John, Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice, Durham, Duke University Press, 1990.

Said, Edward W. and Christopher Hitchens, Blaming the Victims, New York, Verso, 1988.

Segev, Tom, 1949: The First Israelis, New York, The Free Press, 1986.

Notes:

1 Childers, "The Other Exodus," in Khalidi, From Haven to Conquest, p. 800.

2 Palumbo, The Palestinian Catastrophe, p. 126.

3 Morris, The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, p. 206; Palumbo, The Palestinian Catastrophe, p. 127.

4 Morris, The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, p. 207.

5 Glubb, A Soldier with the Arabs, p. 162.

6 Morris, The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, p. 210.

7 Palumbo, The Palestinian Catastrophe, p. 129.

8 Ibid., pp. 129-30.

9 Flapan, The Birth of Israel, p. 100.

10 Quigley, Palestine and Israel, p. I 11.

11 Morris, The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, p. 211.

12 It was later published by both The New York Times, 10123ng, and Newsweek, 11/9/79, and in a book by Rabin's English translator, Peretz Kidron; see Kidron, "Truth Whereby Nations Live:' in Said & Hitchens (eds.), Blaming the Victims.

13 Time, "Untimely Story," 2/2On8.

14 Palumbo, The Palestinian Catastrophe, p. 131. Also see Hirst, The Gun and the Olive Branch, p. 280.

[lizzy]

[QUOTE=tinmenace;157890][COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Century Gothic"]Of course this goes back to the age old argument of whether Israel should ever have been created in the first place. I have not seen any legitimate reasoning for it's creation, yet.

So, the argument of them having the right to defend themselves doesn't work for me.

Pakistan and India have nuclear abilities, and so does Israel (and they haven't even signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, unlike Iran, btw), so why can't Syria have the same?

Israel is the new guard dog of the near east, along with it's bitch, the USA?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hi tinmence,...........I agree...................
we know isreal was born out of the Balfour Act, preseding a secert agreement in1916 between banking pals to bring the UAS in and that prolonged WW1 and a vast amount of extra war profits for them.
Yes, had Syria done it ,their countru would be another Iraq right now.
Isreal have started last 3 wars themselves......
When we know that "free energy has been invented and suppressed for 60 odd years , it makes it all the sicker.
lizzy

[philidor]

The right not to have a nuclear armed enemy next door. Quite simple really. Remind me, which middle eastern nation has been attcked 4 times since 1945? Not too difficult to understand their paranoia.

More to the point why does Syria want nuclear weapons? To defend themselves from Iran? The US? Or is it not really for defence? Makes a good negotiating position for the Golan Heights though.

Before anyone says "It is to generate electricity" They don't need nuclear power. Fair bit of Oil around there, and a byproduct of power generation is plutonium.

Perhaps they wan't to cure the pollution epidemic? Middle-Eastern (and all people in general) have a basic right not to inhale smog. Nuclear power is clean, sure meltdown's consequences suck but should never really happen with competent workers preventing meltdown.

[cruise4]

"Do any of the posters here have their own views on suggested terms of compromise and peace?"

Yeah... blow their fuckin brains out.

Thats all they will understand as per usual.

Do you disagree, and if so why and what are your suggestions?

Would your ideas have worked prior to WW2?

[nickatnoon61]

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/interruptignore.jpgGood one!!!! :D :D :D

[nikolaijovanovic]

Good evening.

Hope you have all had a very merry Christmas.


It is all very clear. And you are (in the main) missing the point. Israel can because they can. And regardless of what they have got, and from whom, they have a right not to be threatened. Palestine is a entirely different matter. Anyone with a brain realises that being given land (Balfour declaration) without the existing inhabitants being given a choice is a recipe for disaster. But what is done is done. You don't resolve it by demonising people.

I don't like the coded language that is used for Israel by certain borderline racists on here. "The Jewish state" etc (try Israel.). Are you scared of saying what you mean?

And finally all the best for the New Year. To all. Peace. *tries desperately to find headband, waistcoat and other Hippie accoutrements*

[tinmenace]

I'm not demonizing the Jewish people. However, the Israeli government are monsters along with all their Zionist supporters.

The Israeli Jews are the pawns caught in the middle of the Zionist agenda and are used as fodder for the propaganda cannon of the evil Israeli government (and any other government that supports its existence).

[revolutionary_jam]

by the way, Israel itself claims to be "the jewish state" - no on gave them the right to do that
I'm from a jewish background and I don't agree or approve of that, I think it's racist calling a country "THE jewish state" or "THE muslim state" or "THE christian state", and it's presumptuous in the extreme.

[nikolaijovanovic]

by the way, Israel itself claims to be "the jewish state" - no on gave them the right to do that
I'm from a jewish background and I don't agree or approve of that, I think it's racist calling a country "THE jewish state" or "THE muslim state" or "THE christian state", and it's presumptuous in the extreme.

Hello. And, yes I take your point. But.....

There is a difference in a member of an 'in group' saying 'The Jewish State' and sombody who considers the whole thing evil. It is about semiotics.

I am of Irish descent. Now someone calling me a 'bog trotter' does not bother me per se. But when that is a loaded comment that can be different. Same with other terms. Ever wondered why a black guy can say "Hello N**ger" but a white guy shouldn't? Semiotics.

[nikolaijovanovic]

I'm not demonizing the Jewish people. However, the Israeli government are monsters along with all their Zionist supporters.

The Israeli Jews are the pawns caught in the middle of the Zionist agenda and are used as fodder for the propaganda cannon of the evil Israeli government (and any other government that supports its existence).



OK. But as Israel is a democracy. Surely this means that the voters are evil too?
So by definition you are demonising a group of people who live there.

Cue " Oh, but there is not a real democracy there, etc etc etc":p

[tinmenace]

OK. But as Israel is a democracy. Surely this means that the voters are evil too?
So by definition you are demonising a group of people who live there.

Cue " Oh, but there is not a real democracy there, etc etc etc":p

:rolleyes: Of course, I forgot, silly me...yes I remember them asking the Palestinians, in a democratic referendum, if it was ok to invade their land and push them into refugee camps.

Ah democracy :rolleyes:

[mentalogirl]

here's a link for an interview with Avrum Burg,Israeli Labour party leader candidate and Knesset speaker.He released a book with very caustic criticism of the Israeli state,and of the Israeli 'psyche'.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/868385.html

very intelligent and intuitive man,recommended.

[revolutionary_jam]

OK. But as Israel is a democracy.

I agree with you sentiment that it depends how something is said and who says it, but one way or another Israel does claim to be "THE jewish state."

It's not really a democracy though, less so than here, perhaps not less than the US

also very small (extremist right-wing religious) parties have a lot of power even though they don't have a lot of votes because they decide to side with one party or the other, essentially giving them the casting vote!

The Israeli people in general are good people but they have been fed such a false view of the history of their country that they can barely see the forrest for the trees, and how their government has betrayed them by choosing provocation over peace

[tinmenace]

The Israeli people in general are good people but they have been fed such a false view of the history of their country that they can barely see the forrest for the trees, and how their government has betrayed them by choosing provocation over peace

Bravo! Well said!

[veritas2007]

The Israeli state appears to be a proving ground for all sorts of weapons of mass deception against the people of the planet, in their rhetoric, in their actions and even in the weapons and methodology they use. One only has to dig a little to seen how the Palestinians are treated to understand this.

The whole concept of an Israeli State is an abhorrent to all of human civilization and the sooner we realise this this, the better off we all will be.

[nickatnoon61]

I agree with this guy to a degree, but one thing I think he will never understand, is the patriotic brainwashing he has been subjected to, to put on a killing uniform, in the first place. He is just a pawn like many others! Nick.

I am ashamed that my country would allow its service members to be murdered in cold blood by a rogue nation (Israel) that continues to receive billions of dollars from us annually in foreign aid! A nation that professes to be our ally when in fact it is nothing more than a lying, blackmailing murdering rogue and a destroyer of freedom and democracy. The traitors in our government then and now are to blame for allowing this injustice to continue to go unpunished. I salute the brave and heroic personnel of the USS Liberty (both living and dead) for their actions on that long ago day and even today as they attempt to make the truth known. For these were my brothers in arms who performed their duties in accordance with the oaths that they took, but were betrayed by their own government and the rogue nation of Israel. Those that died on that infamous day can never rest in peace until the truth is known and justice is served!
---

[nickatnoon61]

Good evening.

Hope you have all had a very merry Christmas.


It is all very clear. And you are (in the main) missing the point. Israel can because they can. And regardless of what they have got, and from whom, they have a right not to be threatened. Palestine is a entirely different matter. Anyone with a brain realises that being given land (Balfour declaration) without the existing inhabitants being given a choice is a recipe for disaster. But what is done is done. You don't resolve it by demonising people.

I don't like the coded language that is used for Israel by certain borderline racists on here. "The Jewish state" etc (try Israel.). Are you scared of saying what you mean?

And finally all the best for the New Year. To all. Peace. *tries desperately to find headband, waistcoat and other Hippie accoutrements* I am not scared of saying what i mean.Here is my answer to your despicable post!!!! JUST 6 SIMPLE WORDS http://www.crescentandcross.com/index.php?page=articles&subpage1=six_simple_words

[tinmenace]

The Israeli government and their supporter are so fucking special, aren't they? :rolleyes:

Making Maskiot: Israel's settlement expansion - 20 Feb 08 - YouTube

[tinmenace]

An Israeli commission has approved the construction of 920 homes in occupied East Jerusalem.

The homes will be built in Har Homa, a neighbourhood that has 10,000 residents, the Jerusalem municipality said in a statement on Wednesday.

Har Homa is known to Palestinians as Jabel Abu Ghneim and is built on confiscated Arab land.

Israel pledged to halt all settlement activity in the occupied West Bank when peace talks were revived at the conference in the US city of Annapolis last year.

The country occupied and annexed the eastern half of Jerusalem after the 1967 war, a move that was not recognised by the international community.

In recent peace talks, the Palestinians have demanded the area as their capital, but Israel considers the whole of Jerusalem its "eternal, undivided" capital.

It has said it will continue to build in both the city's eastern sector and in the larger West Bank settlement blocs that it intends to keep in any deal.

West Bank raid

The decision to build more homes came as the Israeli military conducted its third raid this week inside the West Bank town of Nablus.

The operation, which included a raid on city hall and six mosques as well as the confiscation of three buses from an Islamic school in town, prompted protests from Palestinian officials and businesses.

The raids "undermine grossly our efforts aimed at rebuilding our capacity and reestablishing law and order", Salam Fayyad said in Ramallah.

Earlier this week, Israeli troops raided Nablus and shut down three facilities of a Hamas-affiliated charity and a medical centre.

Forces also raided a popular shopping mall in Nablus, ordering its closure for two years over its owner's alleged links to the Hamas.

The raids appear to be part of an intensified crackdown on Hamas in the West Bank by Israel and the Palestinian Authority as a way of preventing the group from seizing control of the area, as it did the Gaza Strip last year.

Businesses planned a general strike on Wednesday to protest the crackdown.

Al Jazeera (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/07/200879114053172605.html)




.

[kingmonkey]

Good evening.

Hope you have all had a very merry Christmas.


It is all very clear. And you are (in the main) missing the point. Israel can because they can. And regardless of what they have got, and from whom, they have a right not to be threatened. Palestine is a entirely different matter. Anyone with a brain realises that being given land (Balfour declaration) without the existing inhabitants being given a choice is a recipe for disaster. But what is done is done. You don't resolve it by demonising people.

I don't like the coded language that is used for Israel by certain borderline racists on here. "The Jewish state" etc (try Israel.). Are you scared of saying what you mean?

And finally all the best for the New Year. To all. Peace. *tries desperately to find headband, waistcoat and other Hippie accoutrements*

What's done is done? I hope some one steals your land and gives it away. ISRAEL is a fucking thorn in the side of the middle east and their will never be peace while it's there. How's that for coded language?

The proliferation of nuclear weapons is a bad thing. I agree. But it's O.K for Israel to have them, just not anyone else? Strikes me you're the one being racist. Of course Israel wasn't pressured into the nuclear proliferation treaty like everyone else were they? Remind me, why didn't they sign that again?

P.S. I don't really care what you like or dislike, and I extend you the courtesy to say the same to me.

[zarah]

What's done is done? I hope some one steals your land and gives it away. ISRAEL is a fucking thorn in the side of the middle east and their will never be peace while it's there. How's that for coded language?

The proliferation of nuclear weapons is a bad thing. I agree. But it's O.K for Israel to have them, just not anyone else? Strikes me you're the one being racist. Of course Israel wasn't pressured into the nuclear proliferation treaty like everyone else were they? Remind me, why didn't they sign that again?

P.S. I don't really care what you like or dislike, and I extend you the courtesy to say the same to me.


They didn't sign because it would have been deemed as 'anti-semitic' to even ask nicely..

Israel is a racist, apartheid state which not only has stolen the land of innocent people for the last sixty years, but continually breaks international law...not only should every Israeli be ashamed of what's happening in their name but they should do more than be apathetic to stop it.

[nikolaijovanovic]

What's done is done? (A)I hope some one steals your land and gives it away. (B)ISRAEL is a fucking thorn in the side of the middle east and their will never be peace while it's there. How's that for coded language?

(C)The proliferation of nuclear weapons is a bad thing. I agree. But it's O.K for Israel to have them, just not anyone else? Strikes me you're the one being racist. Of course Israel wasn't pressured into the nuclear proliferation treaty like everyone else were they?(D) Remind me, why didn't they sign that again?

P.S. I don't really care what you like or dislike, and I extend you the courtesy to say the same to me.

Hello King Louis,

(A) They did. That is why I am here. Potatoes, exports, Famine, massive expansion of the US population.
(B) Correct to a degree. But they are there. No amount of anguished moaning will change it.
(C) No, not racist. But by that reasoning we should allow anyone to have weapons that could be used against us? My cap is doffed for your democratic views. Hope you have a fallout shelter nearby.
(D) Geopolitics

[kblood]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30332

This thread about the Rothschilds tells of some of the secret history behind the making of Israel.

There are of course good hearted Jews, and they have and probably still are victims as much as many in a powerplay that is too big for most to see.

We could not fathom the Earth was a round ball when being on it, because it was impossible to see. Same goes for the power of these Rothschilds, its too great to understand really.

And if the stories about them are true, then they really have some great minds, unfortunately used for scheming catastrophic events.

[tinmenace]

The unfortunate thing with all this is that many Jews (especially Jewish Israelis) have been taught that there is something very special about them. They are somehow far more special and important than any other group of people in the world. They are taught that this entitles them to illegally occupy the land and homes of the natives in Palestine - the people that have been living in refugee camps for DECADES because they were forced out of their homes! Civilians! Families with children forced out of their homes and into tent cities. How is this ok?

This is the problem. None of them see anything wrong with the suffering of others as long as it somehow benefits them. This is drummed into them. You can read the mission statement of any Jewish Temple website and you'll see that one of their top priorities is the Zionist agenda.

Fuck the rest of the world's people! It's all about them. :rolleyes:

Well I say fuck them and their Zionist agenda. I don't want to pay taxes to support the oppression of the true Semites in the area. I don't want to see anymore youth sacrificing their lives in wars because you all think you are so much more fucking special than anyone else in the world. You're not. Fuck you and your evil agenda.

http://vb.spiritual-nature.com/images/smilies/icon_fubirdie.gif

Many ethinic groups have become extinct. What's so special about your fucking ethnic group that the whole world should suffer to keep you in existence? Nothing exactly, because so few of you are even Semitic. You're living a fucking lie! http://vb.spiritual-nature.com/images/smilies/snap.gif

[marpat]

If this was Syria that did an airstrike against nuclear reactor in Israel, OMFG, WW3 would erupt. The fucking hypocrisy of it all! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


It is the same with the US, they feel they have a right to destroy the facilities of other nations who they don't like but if the reverse happened then there would be major war.

Personally I think that these countries should be allowed to have their own nuclear power stations. Who gave any country the right to tell other nations what they can or cannot develop.

[kblood]

It is the same with the US, they feel they have a right to destroy the facilities of other nations who they don't like but if the reverse happened then there would be major war.

Personally I think that these countries should be allowed to have their own nuclear power stations. Who gave any country the right to tell other nations what they can or cannot develop.

Exactly, and the countries they attack mostly if not all got one thing in common. No debt to the Central or World Bank.

The US has done the most war crimes of any country in the world, they have used chemical and nuclear weapons in wars, and since Israel is ruled by the same people it seems, then they got the same liberties. Israel is just helping them get the few remaining countries in the world without debt to the world bank, in debt through war. When all countries have become so, they will try making the NWO a reality again.

Because they already have tried making the NWO a reality, but the Zars of Russia stopped them. In WW1, the Zars got killed and all of their family again. Suddenly Russia was communist and faced revolution upon revolution, making Russia more and more indebted to the a bank set up there.

[zarah]

Israel is a racist and criminal entity. You can be proactive in campaigning against its crimes against Palestintians by boycotting its goods and services and the goods and services of any company which supports it.

http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.html

[tinmenace]

It is the same with the US, they feel they have a right to destroy the facilities of other nations who they don't like but if the reverse happened then there would be major war.

Personally I think that these countries should be allowed to have their own nuclear power stations. Who gave any country the right to tell other nations what they can or cannot develop.

You're right! Who made the US government god?

[tinmenace]

Israel is a racist and criminal entity. You can be proactive in campaigning against its crimes against Palestintians by boycotting its goods and services and the goods and services of any company which supports it.

http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.html

Thanks for the link!

[kingmonkey]

You're right! Who made the US government god?




The U.S Government! :D

Self righteous bastards.

[kblood]

The US government is also just puppets really. The Rothschilds donated 2 million to Trumans presidential campaign, and he is the president who made Israel possible.

At the same time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#Zionism_and_the_British_Mandate

The Balfour Declaration was revealed. I think it was:
Amschel Mayor James Rothschild - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Who made sure the UK was reminded about it. Now why would there even be a declaration about this, so many years before World War 2?

Balfour Declaration of 1917 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.php#companies

This is a great link :) Thanks. At my work we have free pepsi, and I was wondering why they had choosen pepsi above Coca Cola. I still dont know why, but I am went from not minding it, to be glad that it is Pepsi rather than Coca Cola, although its probably not that much difference in the end.

[tinmenace]

The US government is also just puppets really. The Rothschilds donated 2 million to Trumans presidential campaign, and he is the president who made Israel possible.



The Rothchilds made the US government god!

Who woulda thunk ;)

[kblood]

The Rothchilds made the US government god!

Who woulda thunk ;)





Hehe :) It took a while for them. Quite a few of the other settlers of the New World knew about the bankers and their intentions, and saw through their lies and promises. Even after they had begun the line of presidents, some of the presidents, even though Freemasons, defied the Rothschilds. Probably even managed to slow down their agenda for taken full power of the US economy for a few years. It was only a question of time before they could get a president in seat there, and give them the US federal reserve and so on. Since that, the US has been their bitch it seems, and that was back in the 1800s

Apparantly even the government isnt aware of such facts though, which I think is the reason they bribed a president to help make Israel. Even with the secret societies, winning over indiviuals still is individual struggles for them, and therefore they always have lots of wars going on with the people they place in power. Everytime one steps out of line, they take another puppet to make sure they pay, after defaming them in the media. Like Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Could Saddam Hussein have made chemical weapons himself, or were they provided by the US like most the weapons in the Middle East? The US is the only reason Iraq could ever have weapons of mass destruction, just like the US must have helped Israel become a nuclear power.

[tinmenace]

A promising thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31032) by TinTin.

[tinmenace]

British PM demands end to Israel settlements :rolleyes:

BETHLEHEM (AP) -- British Prime Minister Gordon Brown demanded Sunday that Israel cease settlement construction and promised more money to jump-start the battered Palestinian economy. http://vb.spiritual-nature.com/images/smilies/icon_blah.gif

In his first trip to Israel and the Palestinian territories as Britain's leader, Brown repeatedly stressed that economics are key to Mideast peace and said Israel should ease travel restrictions in the West Bank that have hindered commerce.

But his strongest comments were reserved for the settlements: "I think the whole European Union is very clear on this matter: We want to see a freeze on settlements.

"Settlement expansion has made peace harder to achieve. It erodes trust; it heightens Palestinian suffering; it makes the compromises Israel needs to make for peace more difficult," Brown said at a news conference with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank town of Bethlehem.

Abbas went further in his criticism of Israel's construction in disputed east Jerusalem and the adjacent West Bank, telling Brown that Israel lacks commitment to the "principles and spirit" of Mideast peace efforts. He singled out stepped-up construction of homes for Jews in areas of Jerusalem the Palestinians claim for their capital.

At a joint appearance after meeting Brown later in Jerusalem, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert acknowledged that Israel disagrees with the Palestinians and Britain over the issue of settlements but added, "I am absolutely convinced, Mr. Prime Minister, that this should not stand in the way of an agreement between us and the Palestinians." http://vb.spiritual-nature.com/images/smilies/icon_wank.gif

In other words, Israel doesn't give a flying fuck what the rest of the world wants, because what THEY want is infinitely more important than what anyone else wants. It's all about them and their delusional self-glory.

Olmert repeated his contention that agreement is "closer than ever" and said he hoped for an accord by the end of the year....

MORE (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/07/20/brown.israel.ap/index.html)





http://vb.spiritual-nature.com/images/smilies/icon_thinkmate.gif

Wake up world!

[stelios]

Gordon Brown is the patron of a zionist fundraising 'charity' called the Jewish National Fund (Jewish NF) the sole purpose of which is to procure land in order to build settlements
so he is in fact speaking with a forked tongue as he is a committed and rabid zionist whore
dont forget Gordon Brown sold all of our gold to the Rothschild clan at a knockdown price of $250 per ounce

[tinmenace]

It's all just lip service, as you say. Empty words from Brown. It means nothing.

[kblood]

From the link TinMenace posted:

The international community is trying to bolster Abbas' moderate government, and Brown said Britain would donate $60 million on top of $500 million the British government has pledged to the Palestinians over the next three years.

He spoke of the need to create jobs by building industrial parks, promoting small businesses and putting up desperately needed housing. He announced plans to host an international investment conference for the Palestinians in the fall and promised to help the Palestinians train their security forces.

Peace efforts are also complicated by the fact that the Gaza Strip is ruled by militants from Hamas. Ismail Haniyeh, who heads the Hamas government in Gaza, said Sunday that Brown should visit Gaza to see the "humanitarian crisis" caused by Israel's blockade of the territory, "unfortunately with the participation of several countries, including European countries and the British themselves."

Israel imposed a partial blockade on Gaza in response to rocket fire from the territory on southern Israel. A cease-fire currently in effect has decreased the rocket fire and has led Israel to increase the trickle of goods entering Gaza.

They go on about how much money they have donated. Then they show how They cant respond to attacks from Israel. Israel shoots the palestineans water supplies.

Was written in a few secs, since I had to catch a bus. What I meant is Israel shoots water tanks that palestineans have water in, and that is just one of the way they anger the palestineans. The difference between when Israelians attack palestineans and the other way around is that palestenians dont have any media to turn to when they are attacked. The Israelians obviously have the media on their side.

[tinmenace]

A prison with one million inmates... that's how the people of the Gaza Strip regard their land.

Gaza is an area of 288 square kilometers surrounded by an electric fence. Lacking natural resources and being one of the poorest places on earth - Gaza is dependent on its ties with Israel - its enemy.

Made by an Israeli and Palestinian crew, CLOSE, CLOSED, CLOSURE shows the nerve-racking process of getting people in and out, and the growing frustration and deprivation of the local population, amongst the reasons for the "second intifada" and the present-day blood bath.

The film also presents the different Israeli standpoints - right wingers who consider the occupation legitimate, and doves who are willing to give up the occupied territories as part of a peace treaty.

Questions raised by the director are interspersed with comments from Palestinians and confrontations between settlers and Israeli pacifists.

The film asks: In this never ending conflict, where the spilled blood makes every stone a symbol - where every image is fraught with meaning - is it possible to see and hear things as they are?

"This short but powerful documentary sheds light on life in and around the Gaza Strip, the densely populated zone of Palestinian poverty and despair." - Library Journal

"The film presents a wide range of views on the [Palestinian and Israeli conflict] via a panorama that presents life near the Erez Crossing from Israel into Gaza, and the daily litany of obstacles faced. Both the filmmaker and the Palestinian participants question the value of a film as a catalyst for change under such dire circumstances. Nevertheless, the further deterioration of life in Gaza...stresses the importance of reminding the world that the Palestinians are not merely casualties in the newspaper headlines, but human beings with dreams, emotions, and a persevering sense of humor. The film contributes to our understanding of the average Palestinian family." - Al Jadid, A Review & Record of Arab Culture and Arts

"Plunges you into Gaza's world of terror and want... tries to fight [the] stifled horror by showing the reality. The director takes you into the intimacy of a Gazan family and lets you see the exasperation." - Le Monde Diplomatique

"An excellent window into the mind of someone who hopes to create peace and justice and is unsure of how exactly to do that, (...) captur(ing) the uncertainty and disillusionment that can happen. In the end... it puts forth questions that may be uncomfortable for those of us working for peace." - Online Journal for Peace and Conflict Resolution

Source (http://icarusfilms.com/new2002/gaz.html)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Najwa_Sultan.jpg
.

[tinmenace]

"During today's weekly demonstration against the Israeli Wall, Avatar heroes came and joined the struggle against the Israeli occupation. Demonstrators painted blue held the Palestinian flag and were shot at by the Israeli Army. One person was reported injured after being hit by a gas grenade. Bi'lin, Palestinian Territory. 12/02/2010."

http://spiritual-nature.com/images/avatarisrael/1.jpg http://spiritual-nature.com/images/avatarisrael/2.jpg

http://spiritual-nature.com/images/avatarisrael/5.jpg http://spiritual-nature.com/images/avatarisrael/6.jpg

http://spiritual-nature.com/images/avatarisrael/7.jpg http://spiritual-nature.com/images/avatarisrael/8.jpg

http://spiritual-nature.com/images/avatarisrael/9.jpg http://spiritual-nature.com/images/avatarisrael/10.jpg

http://spiritual-nature.com/images/avatarisrael/4.jpg


CNN producer note

ayyadmed documents weekly protests in Bilin against an Israeli security barrier. The villagers have compared their situation to the popular film "Avatar" because of the barrier's proximity to their village. In the James Cameron movie, a group of people called the Na'vi defend themselves against a corporation trying to mine their land for resources, thus occupying their land. The Bilin protesters say the Israelis are occupying their land in a similar manner by constructing the barrier.
- nsaidi, CNN iReport producer




SOURCE: CNN IREPORT.COM (http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-408462?hpt=C2)








Militant tossers.

http://vb.spiritual-nature.com/images/smilies/icon_wank.gif

[ben87]

There will be judgement, no sin is forgiven, no good deed will go without reward!!!!

[tinmenace]

There will be judgement, no sin is forgiven, no good deed will go without reward!!!!

What do you mean?

[tinmenace]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/WORLD/meast/12/29/israel.arrest/t1larg.jpg

December 29, 2009 10:27 a.m. EST
Jerusalem (CNN) -- Israeli nuclear whistle-blower Mordechai Vanunu was arrested Tuesday by Israeli police for allegedly violating the terms of his 2004 prison release agreement.

Vanunu was convicted by an Israeli court in 1986 after being kidnapped from Italy by Israeli intelligence agents. He was sentenced to 18 years for passing on information about Israel's clandestine nuclear program.

Vanunu, who at the time worked as a technician at Israel's nuclear research facility, passed information along to a British newspaper and led nuclear arms analysts to conclude that Israel possessed a stockpile of nuclear weapons.

Israel has neither confirmed nor denied that it has a nuclear weapons program.

Micky Rosenfeld, a spokesman for the Israeli police, said Vanunu was arrested for an unauthorized meeting with foreigners and was due in court later Tuesday.

Vanunu's attorney, Avigdor Feldman, clarified that the arrest had to do with his client's relationship with a Norwegian girlfriend and nothing to do with revealing state secrets.

The court ordered that Vanunu be put under house arrest for three days until an indictment is served, a police spokesman told CNN.

Speaking to reporters at a Jerusalem court, Vanunu said Israel and its leaders were "impotent" because they have nuclear weapons which they are not able to admit they have.

"This Jewish state has 200 atomic ... hydrogen bombs, atomic weapons, neutron bomb," he said. "They are not able to say they have the bomb, they are not able to destroy anyone. ... Instead they arrest Vanunu Mordechai."

At the time of his release in 2004, the Israeli Justice Ministry said in a statement that it believed there was a "high degree of probability that Vanunu wishes to divulge state secrets, secrets that have yet to be divulged."

According to the terms of Vanunu's release, he is prohibited from leaving the country or making contact with foreign residents without advance permission.

But ever since then, Vanunu has been arrested on a number of occasions for violations of his release agreement, and in 2007 he was sentenced to six months for not fulfilling his parole requirements.

In his remarks to reporters on Tuesday, Vanunu said that since his 2004 release he has met with foreigners "all the time" and that he had been living among foreigners.


CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/12/29/israel.arrest/index.html)


.

[ben87]

He is a true patriot. Curse those bastardised wicked devils and their inscecent war mongering.

[ben87]

There will be judgement, no sin is forgiven, no good deed will go without reward!!!!

It's pretty staight forward isn't? It means, Confession will not absolve you of sin. What do we have laws for if sin can be forgiven??? Imagine if they said all sins are forgiven at the end of your life, so sin as much as you like as long as you repent (this is the basis for moral deteriation).

The righteous shall be rewarded.

Am I speaking in tongues or something?

[tinmenace]

Am I speaking in tongues or something?

Based on the topic we're discussing, both sides have different interpretation of "sin" and "righteousness." So, I'm just trying to figure out who and what you were talking about when you said, "...no good deed will go without reward!!!!"

[marpat]

If this was Syria that did an airstrike against nuclear reactor in Israel, OMFG, WW3 would erupt. The fucking hypocrisy of it all! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

And what if Syria had the bomb? they would then think they were untouchable and perhaps they would start acting aggressive, etc. and not bothering to listen to anybody else. What is they had an alliance with other muslim countries, who then decided to attack Israel, safe in the knowledge that any nuclear attack against them would see their allies hit Israel.

Its not just a case of hypocrisy but of possible big picture scenarios. They survive by having the most powerful weapons in the area and denying the chance to others.

[white horse]

Nope. The Soviets did not trust them enough.

The analogy goes like this. You have 2 people in a pub. Each one knows the other has a stick. they are unlikely to fight because they wil both get hit (MAD). You have 300 people in a pub, each one has stick. But one might think their stick is better. The chances of a fight increase. Hence the proliferation of nuclear weapons is not a good thing.

Hey here's a thing for ya hows about no-one has any sticks?? :D

[tinmenace]

Israeli soldiers fire on Al Jazeera correspondent - 04 Sep 09 - YouTube