God Logic

[f13ticket]

God Logic

About God:
God is Will. (Consciousness.) (Intelligent Energy.)
Because God is Will, God is all powerful.

The Question:
This is a question in regards to the permanence of God's decisions in regards to cause and effect in relation to time. Is God always forever?

God and the Rock:

Can God make a rock too heavy for itself to lift? Of course, if God chooses to. Can God reverse that decision to make the rock not too heavy for itself to lift? Sure, if God chooses to. Any decision God makes is only as permanent as God chooses to allow it to be. If God chooses to change its mind, God can change the decision. As long as God is alive to do so, God can always change its mind. It's like a rock in a video game. God can set the rock's weight to Zero, or to five thousand. And God can always go back at any time, modify the source code, and run the modified version as long as God is alive to do so.

Can God kill itself?:
Can God kill itself? Of course, if God chooses to. To say that God can not kill itself is no different than to say that God can not make a rock too heavy for itself to lift. It would undermine the fact that God is all powerful because God it Will. Sense we know that God is all powerful, because God is Will, God must be able to make a rock too heavy for itself to lift, if God so Chooses to. God must also, then, be able to kill itself of God so chooses to.

Linear Perspective:

Time can express itself linearly. God is alive in the present. God kills itself in the present. This destroys the future. The present becomes the past. From the point of death in the past onwards into the future indefinitely there is nothing because God is dead. God is now only alive in the past before the point of death. God, that could otherwise reverse its decision if it were alive to do so, can not bring itself back to life as it is not alive to decide to bring itself back to life.

This all hinges on the fact that, in the linear perspective, actions can only be made in the present. It does not matter if God is alive in the past before the point of death in the past. God has to be alive in the present to do anything. God's actions in the present color the past as the present becomes the past. God's actions ripple forward and cover the future as what we do now determines the future. Therefore, if God is not alive in the present, as it has killed itself, it might as well never have existed as it can not ever fix this action as God will never be alive in the present again to undo the action it did in what was the present but is now the past because God will never be able to re-birth itself to make itself alive again without itself already being alive to choose to re-birth itself; which it can not be alive to chose to re-birth itself because it is dead because it chose to kill itself.

If somehow were to decide to take a knife and slits his or her own throat, he or she does so in the present. The present becomes the past. It does not matter if they were alive in the past before the point of death. They are dead in the past after the point of death, they are dead new present that came from what was the future, and they are dead in the future that comes after the new present that came from the future; and will continue to be dead from the point of death forever. This is so as they can never re-birth themselves back into the present to choose not to kill themselves, or to be alive again, because they have to already be alive in the present to make such a decision. And, sense they are now dead because of a decision they made in what was the present but is now the past, they can never be alive in the present again to choose to undo the decision to kill themselves or to choose to be alive again.

Non-Linear Factor:

Time can express itself non-linearly. In this way; the past, present, and future all happen at once simultaneously in the collective now. (The collective being the collection of the past, present, and future.) God, and anyone and everyone else sense God is us and I and us and I are God, can all choose at any time to act from the simultaneous now that is the collective state of the past, present, and the future. If the above example of God's suicide is played out in the non-linear expression of time, it is not fatal. God is still alive in the past before the point of death that is also in the past. Acting in the simultaneous now, sense God is alive to do so from being alive in the past before the point of death, God can always choose from this place in time to change its decision just as it can always change its decisions with the rock and any other topic. God is never completely dead, as God is always alive in the past and, thus, can always undo actions taken; even if they are in others spheres of time. It can choose to not engage in its own suicide after it has kill itself. Or, after it has killed itself, it can choose to re-birth itself and bring itself back into being alive again. Truthfully, it was never really dead, and always alive, as it was never dead, and thus alive, in the past before the point of death all along.

The Programmer and the Program:

Why does God, cause and effect, and time work this way? These are all constructs. Anything that works is logical. And any logical working is a construct. Who built the construct? God, obviously. God is Will, and Will decided to make itself all powerful. It then decided everything else in all of Existence; including everything in this document. How did Will come into being and how did it get the all powerful authority to create itself and give itself all powerful authority? I am not sure, and that is another question. However, a very relevant one that is very much related to this document.

However, God is here, is Will, has all powerful authority; with which it created time both in its linear and non-linear expressions, and with its all powerful authority from the non-linear expression of time God always has the choice to choose to guarantee that it always is alive to have the choice to choose to always be alive.

What if, with its all powerful authority, God decided to systematically dismantle all of Existence? What if God decided that time can only express itself linearly? What if God decided to make so that matter and energy (two expressions of the same thing) can be destroyed? What if God decided, after doing all of this, to make itself not all-powerful anymore? What happens if God, then, decides to kill itself? Can God then, in any way, be alive again? Can God then, in any way, bring itself back from the dead? Time, in its linear and non-linear expressions, and matter, expressed as matter or energy, are all constructs made by God. God can choose to change their rules at any time. We (and God) can not count on how matter, energy, non-linear time, and linear time currently act to guarantee that God always has the choice to choose to guarantee that it always is alive to have the choice to choose to always be alive. One must go into the heart of how Will itself works to figure out the question of this document; because simply understanding energy, matter, non-linear time, and linear time is not enough as they are all part of the construct and are thus able to be changed at any time by God. And, currently, I don't know how Will itself works; and thus I do not know what the answer is.

Coequal View of Time:

In actuality, like ice, water, and steam; time is expressed both linearly and non-linearly simultaneously. Time is neither singularly linear or singularly non-linear. Linear and non-linear are merely two different expressions of the same time. Similar to how a rock is both Consciousness and a rock at the same time. If one shifts one's perspective, the rock is a rock. If one shifts one's perspective again, the rock is simply Consciousness like everything else. The rock did not change, only the vantage point of the one perceiving it. The rock, regardless of the one perceiving it, is both a rock and Conciseness at the same time. In much the same way, this is true for all things. Time can be perceived by the the one perceiving as either linear or non-linear. However, regardless of how the one perceiving chooses to perceive time, time is both linear and non-linear at the same time.

The Answer:

I don't know. Do you know?

[shridharm]

Is God always forever?
YES.

Can God kill itself?:

This is what our high knowledge and experience has led us to - disrespect for the Creator.

A lot of intelligent people out there can do themselves a favour by expressing a mental respect for children, old people and animals.

Those three - we are soooo used to making fun of, or taking lightly. It is time some of us turned the clock back on one of the cultural backslides - lack of respect for children, old people and animals.

Respect others and indeed you are respecting God by doing so.

Writing about God as a scientific object takes away the connection of the human heart ...

God is surely the expression and substance of the virtues of the good heart : compassion, courage, kindness,purity et al

With love
- S

[f13ticket]

Is God always forever?
YES.

Can God kill itself?:

This is what our high knowledge and experience has led us to - disrespect for the Creator.

A lot of intelligent people out there can do themselves a favour by expressing a mental respect for children, old people and animals.

Those three - we are soooo used to making fun of, or taking lightly. It is time some of us turned the clock back on one of the cultural backslides - lack of respect for children, old people and animals.

Respect others and indeed you are respecting God by doing so.

Writing about God as a scientific object takes away the connection of the human heart ...

God is surely the expression and substance of the virtues of the good heart : compassion, courage, kindness,purity et al

With love
- S

Some within the New World Order are Nihilists. And via the Occult they are steeped in Spirituality. Further, it does not as much matter if God works well enough now as whether or not it can always work. My computer works well now, it won't if the file-system is destroyed and broken into being unallocated.

I am looking for peace with myself and Oneness through logic. How can I have peace if people who are already bent on destroying this world might be able to successfully destroy Existence itself?

While I thank you for responding; your response feels emotional more than logical and thus has offered little in the way of an answer. Respectfully.

[verndewd]

".. I dont know if god had any choice in the matter of creation" Albert Einstien.

I believe this is a factual statement

There is the love matrix what christians term the holy spirit
creation or the collective the pool of infinite potential that the varieties of atoms is based on.
and the manifestation or god the rendering of creative thought into being

From where we stand a very complex organism.

[nectars]

While I thank you for responding; your response feels emotional more than logical and thus has offered little in the way of an answer. Respectfully.

Your not going to find what your lookin for through logic and reason as their intrinsically limited. Their so limited in fact that they cant even understand what emotions are even though their a basic driving force of Mans behavior and as such drive his logic and reason -even if unconsciously.

This is not to say that they've not player their part though, as in the evoloution of consciousness Man wouldn't have gotten this far without them.

Just remember that Mans logic and reason tend to go with what feels right beyond the seeming facts or conclusions of logic and reason themselves. Theres a world of difference between "knowing" and "knowing about".

[f13ticket]

Your not going to find what your lookin for through logic and reason as their intrinsically limited. Their so limited in fact that they cant even understand what emotions are even though their a basic driving force of Mans behavior and as such drive his logic and reason -even if unconsciously.

This is not to say that they've not player their part though, as in the evoloution of consciousness Man wouldn't have gotten this far without them.

Just remember that Mans logic and reason tend to go with what feels right beyond the seeming facts or conclusions of logic and reason themselves. Theres a world of difference between "knowing" and "knowing about".

Our logical understandings are inspired from Spiritual experiences. Which, I view, are also logical. It is then important, as the author of, "Punk Science: Inside the Mind of God," stresses, that we place the understandings that we get from inspiration into a logical context. If we don't, they becomes useless or nearly so.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien. Though, I would rather say Spirituality and or Consciousness instead of religion. As religions are Spiritual and mental prisons.

I see your constant assertion that logic runs out as you being fearful of logic. Logic can be work and some people would rather have the truth without developing the logic to understand what they have. This is both lazy and a potentially dangerous situation. As they did not earn the logical understanding of the truth; and they do not understand the truth enough to know how to use it properly. It would be like giving monkeys nukes and not telling them how they work and how to use them right. They may very well detonate themselves and or a friendly neighbor. I see you, and there probably isn't a nice way to say it, as, "religion without science is blind."

1: For something to Exist, it most be logical.
2: For something to be logical, it must have a logical mechanic.
3: If something is not logical, it does not exist.
4: And, and this is one of the places where I differ from Atheists that have their own blind faith in their religion of establishment science, if something exists that we can not yet logically explain; then it must exist with a logical mechanic that we simply have not yet developed our understanding of the mechanic enough to understand. It is then our job to do so.

I never leave logic. It is the watchword that protects me and others from blind faith. And that is why I suggest that others never leave logic either, lest they are apt to fall into the pit of blind faith.

If there is something about Spiritual Truth that I do not yet logically understand, that does not tell me to leave logic behind. That tells me to think more, talk with others more, and to develop my understanding of the Spiritual Truth until I can put it into a logical context and thus have a logical understanding of said Spiritual Truth.

[elirien]

I never leave logic. It is the watchword that protects me and others from blind faith. And that is why I suggest that others never leave logic either, lest they are apt to fall into the pit of blind faith.

Faith is an act of logic. Same thing. You have to benefit from something to have faith in. Don't have faith and don't have logic. What is left?


If there is something about Spiritual Truth that I do not yet logically understand, that does not tell me to leave logic behind. That tells me to think more, talk with others more, and to develop my understanding of the Spiritual Truth until I can put it into a logical context and thus have a logical understanding of said Spiritual Truth.

Look logical at logic itself then. What is it that it is so powerful that it employs you? Since you can never leave it, it must be quite an abusive relationship. Find a logical example of your relationship with logic.

[nectars]

Seems like elirien has already given the required answer.

Saying that I'm not completely past allowing the ego to have a little fun so with you being being devoted to logic(ego) lets play that game.

Our logical understandings are inspired from Spiritual experiences. Which, I view, are also logical. It is then important, as the author of, "Punk Science: Inside the Mind of God," stresses, that we place the understandings that we get from inspiration into a logical context. If we don't, they becomes useless or nearly so.

I've no idea who he is and I've never read it: I'm very selective with what I expose myself to. Anyway I disagree with his opinion. You'll actually find that most of our logic based thinking is associated with (1)past personal exprience combined with (2)information gleamed from sources outside ourselves superimposed upon such spiritual experiences. Essentially we're unable to process the information as doing so is determined by our own intrinsic level of consciousness -which btw is closer to awareness and not the "will" as you seem to believe. "Will" is a function or aspect of consciousness, not "what it is". About two seconds of honest introspection should remove your blinders to that one.


"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien. Though, I would rather say Spirituality and or Consciousness instead of religion. As religions are Spiritual and mental prisons.

I agree to an extent with Einstien on this, however he never did break through the spiritual barrier in the way the likes of Jung did as he was unable to accept that all thought and therefore logic and reason are limited. A thought is what it is and is intrinsically limited to its own expression which is unable to grasp any context outwith what it is.

I see your constant assertion that logic runs out as you being fearful of logic. Logic can be work and some people would rather have the truth without developing the logic to understand what they have. This is both lazy and a potentially dangerous situation. As they did not earn the logical understanding of the truth; and they do not understand the truth enough to know how to use it properly. It would be like giving monkeys nukes and not telling them how they work and how to use them right. They may very well detonate themselves and or a friendly neighbor. I see you, and there probably isn't a nice way to say it, as, "religion without science is blind."

I dont mind being analysed but I do prefer it to be by someone who actually knows what their talking about. "Fearful of logic" and "lazy"? You really do know nothing about me so thats quite the projection on your part. Anyway, to quell you fears about talking to someone who "fears logic", heres a copy of a post or two I wrote a while ago which should clear that up; hopefully you'll understand them.

Thread & below quoted question: can someone answer this? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50227&highlight=observer)

iv been very qurious about a problem ,so anyone into the whole, atoms, matrix ,illusion thing may be able to help answer this question (sorry if its been talked about somewhere in this forum)

Iv been reading a lot about and watching video's on the illusory atom, I wont go into great detail about the subject but the basic premise is that our brain interacts with frequencies and in turn decodes them into what we see around us and if not for our brain to decode these frequencies objects would be just that invisible electrical signals or just frequencies, you could say an object dosnt exist in the form we know it to be until we look at it.

so considering all this, should the above be some what accurate and please correct me on any of this,

say im driving in my car and I can see the car that im driving (the car is also an illusion) I know the car is running because there is an engine to run it ,but when im sitting in the car driving I cannot see the engine I can only expericene the effect of the engine existing ,the effect is that the car is fully operational, but if you apply the above description of how our brains and atoms work (again should it be correct) then shouldnt the engine be non existent since im not looking at it? and in turn the car not be able to start?

am I just over analysing or am I not understanding how the illusory atom works, just for your refference I started a thread here http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48902
which outlines I guess my undersatanding of the illusory atom ,to get back to the "car problem" is it just a matter of me knowing that there is an engine inside the car and is this enough to let the car start and run regardless of whether I can see it?

I suppose its a similar question to the one which goes somthing like
"if there is no one in the forest do the trees make a sound when they fall?

please for those who have studied it longer, any clarification on this subject would be much appreciated

Reply: can someone answer this? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=745830&postcount=13)


Schrödinger's experiment was and is seriously flawed and an impractal way of testing the wave/particle theory. The main problem in it is that although it does take into consideration the observer(or consciousness), it discounts the mind. The mind itself has a completely different function within consciousness from that of observation. Although it is part of consciousness, its not used to "think", its used to store energy signatures in the form of information. I know some will argue with the "thinking" comment and thats your decision(remember this), and its fine. Pay close attention to whats really going on within consciousness and it will work itself out. Anyway.. as the mind stores this information it is then brought into the experience of the observer from the holographic template of it held in the mind.

Lets look at it this way. When the wave/particle experiment was carried out for the first time, the participents had no frame of reference as to what the outcome would be other than their own preconceptions(actually pre-decisions) about what the outcome would be. Hence when one person observed and expected a wave they saw a wave, and when the other observed and expected a particle they saw a particle. The common demominator here is nothing to do with particle physics though, its to do with pre-programmed(again a pre-decision) information being held in that part of consciousness termed as the mind.

For the Schrödinger experiment to work on even a purely logical or scientific way(measureable & repeatable), the human participent observing the "cat in a box" experiment would have to have no frame of reference of what "decay" in this radioactive substance was or how it operates. Consider that prior to the experiment each participent already has preprogrammed beliefs about how this radioactice substance acts, and what its capable and not capable of along with what they term "proven knowledge" or results from previous testing of how this substance degrades in spacetime. These preconceptions or perceptions are stored as a basic energy template within the mind. All basic information about it is already available -including the fact that it's not likely to happen, in which case it doesn't. And yehh I know this shit gets a bit weird.

Basically speaking this is what happens.

We percieve something such as a sound, movement, picture, feeling etc, etc which is in actuallity an energetic signature operating at a certain frequency. While simultaneously and instantly comparing all other relevent information we have to this "something", we start forming our own interpretation of what this "something" is(this btw is the filter we commonly refer to as "Ego", which is nothing more that a set of positions, judgements of positionalities about anything). Once we've done this, we've essentially formed a decision about what this is and what it means to us in the context of the circumstances and what we experienced it. This is then stored in that part of consciousness we call mind as a sort of quantum holographic template and from that moment on is operational until we either experience something which changes our decision about a "thing" or push the delete button and remove it.

So to answer your question, yes, the engine is still there. You may not be thinking of it but its still being held in and projected from the mind through consciousness. Once loaded up there energy patterns just keep on doing what they're doing until we change them. Check it out, just watch whats going on in your thoughts and your life and you'll see the shit literally walking by you.

Appologies for any typos but hey, fuk it lol :cool:

Edit: I also meant to mention that we dont even need to personally have experienced knowing anything about a certain thing for it to be. If you check out some info on how collective consciousness works along with the newer theories on time it'll click into place with the above info. Everything already is and is therefore already known.

For further information related to question brought up regarding the above see this thread: Why is Schrödinger's cat dead and alive? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1058378265&highlight=observer#post1058378265)

Moving on...

1: For something to Exist, it most be logical.

Thats an opinion not a demonstrable & provable scientific fact. For something to exist all it has to do is "be".

2: For something to be logical, it must have a logical mechanic.

Not even an opinion just plain "wrong"(since we're messing within relative/duality here). For anything to be logical all it has to do is make some kind of sense to the level of consciousness analysing it. The higher the level of consciousness the less logical & reasonable logical & reasonable from the lower levels becomes. It may have to serve a purpose but it doesn't need to have a "logical mechanic".

3: If something is not logical, it does not exist.

Covered above in point one. This is subject to your interpretation of how existence should be as determined by your level of consciousness and all prior experience, information and understanding gained about the subject.

4: And, and this is one of the places where I differ from Atheists that have their own blind faith in their religion of establishment science, if something exists that we can not yet logically explain; then it must exist with a logical mechanic that we simply have not yet developed our understanding of the mechanic enough to understand. It is then our job to do so.

This is correct in terms of relativistic mechanics(as stated in point 2 & 3) which potentially cease to exist once one enters the non-linear realms. Once there this logic simply does not apply.

I never leave logic. It is the watchword that protects me and others from blind faith. And that is why I suggest that others never leave logic either, lest they are apt to fall into the pit of blind faith.

And this is why you cannot get the answers your looking for.

If there is something about Spiritual Truth that I do not yet logically understand, that does not tell me to leave logic behind. That tells me to think more, talk with others more, and to develop my understanding of the Spiritual Truth until I can put it into a logical context and thus have a logical understanding of said Spiritual Truth.

When you say "think more" and "talk more with others" all I see is "limit onself more" and "accept alternative programming". Your into philosphy my friend which is far from spiritual truth. As I stated in another post there is a vast difference in "knowing"(spiritual truth) and "knowing about"(limited information stored in the mind).

Hope this satisfies your "concerns" about my ability to utilise "logic and rason" failing short of posting my IQ -which although pretty high is irrelevant when it comes to spiritual truth.

Like I said before, logic has its uses but when it comes to more advanced spiritual concepts(such as comprehending the non-existence of causality) its pretty useless.

Anyway have fun ;)

[f13ticket]

Seems like elirien has already given the required answer.

Saying that I'm not completely past allowing the ego to have a little fun so with you being being devoted to logic(ego) lets play that game.



I've no idea who he is and I've never read it: I'm very selective with what I expose myself to. Anyway I disagree with his opinion. You'll actually find that most of our logic based thinking is associated with (1)past personal exprience combined with (2)information gleamed from sources outside ourselves superimposed upon such spiritual experiences. Essentially we're unable to process the information as doing so is determined by our own intrinsic level of consciousness -which btw is closer to awareness and not the "will" as you seem to believe. "Will" is a function or aspect of consciousness, not "what it is". About two seconds of honest introspection should remove your blinders to that one.




I agree to an extent with Einstien on this, however he never did break through the spiritual barrier in the way the likes of Jung did as he was unable to accept that all thought and therefore logic and reason are limited. A thought is what it is and is intrinsically limited to its own expression which is unable to grasp any context outwith what it is.



I dont mind being analysed but I do prefer it to be by someone who actually knows what their talking about. "Fearful of logic" and "lazy"? You really do know nothing about me so thats quite the projection on your part. Anyway, to quell you fears about talking to someone who "fears logic", heres a copy of a post or two I wrote a while ago which should clear that up; hopefully you'll understand them.

Thread & below quoted question: can someone answer this? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50227&highlight=observer)



Reply: can someone answer this? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=745830&postcount=13)




For further information related to question brought up regarding the above see this thread: Why is Schrödinger's cat dead and alive? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1058378265&highlight=observer#post1058378265)

Moving on...



Thats an opinion not a demonstrable & provable scientific fact. For something to exist all it has to do is "be".



Not even an opinion just plain "wrong"(since we're messing within relative/duality here). For anything to be logical all it has to do is make some kind of sense to the level of consciousness analysing it. The higher the level of consciousness the less logical & reasonable logical & reasonable from the lower levels becomes. It may have to serve a purpose but it doesn't need to have a "logical mechanic".



Covered above in point one. This is subject to your interpretation of how existence should be as determined by your level of consciousness and all prior experience, information and understanding gained about the subject.



This is correct in terms of relativistic mechanics(as stated in point 2 & 3) which potentially cease to exist once one enters the non-linear realms. Once there this logic simply does not apply.



And this is why you cannot get the answers your looking for.



When you say "think more" and "talk more with others" all I see is "limit onself more" and "accept alternative programming". Your into philosphy my friend which is far from spiritual truth. As I stated in another post there is a vast difference in "knowing"(spiritual truth) and "knowing about"(limited information stored in the mind).

Hope this satisfies your "concerns" about my ability to utilise "logic and rason" failing short of posting my IQ -which although pretty high is irrelevant when it comes to spiritual truth.

Like I said before, logic has its uses but when it comes to more advanced spiritual concepts(such as comprehending the non-existence of causality) its pretty useless.

Anyway have fun ;)

"Relativistic Mechanics," is logic. More or less. That is why I say that for something to exist it must be logical. It must have a set of rules by which it operates. From energy being condensed to a lower vibration we get matter. Matter, more or less in the tradition sense, acts predictably. All physical and biological life comes from matter. This entire universe works like a computer game, a logical reactionary clockwork. The only reason that Free Will exists over fate is that Consciousness itself (Intelligent Energy) in a way that I do not yet fully understand, (Point number 4 of mine that is causing me much anguish.) does indeed act as a programmer and re-programmer of this world. This Will/Intent is an action taken by the Intelligent Energy. I prefer to call it Will as that meshes better with the Book of the Law which has parts in it that I like and was one of the first things, before Icke, to wake me up to the concept of a Free Will that is above tradition logic.

Part of me respect this Will, Consciousness, as it acts outside of and over the auto-deterministic nature of this mechanical world. However, another part of my almost hates it as it is very difficult to understand. Everything else in all of Existence is logical. Somehow, the source of this logical world might not be. Or, as I prefer to think of it, is logical but in a way I do not yet understand and mush push myself to develop an understanding of.

I despise the notion of simply accepting something that I can not place into a logical context. Logic equals understanding. And through understanding is fearlessness, some level of security, and control. The entire Occult structure, which I have much but not complete respect for, is based on learning and understanding that mechanic of Spirituality and Oneness so that they can control it. Something I would very much like to do. For said reasons of fearlessness, security, and control. One of the main things I don't like about much if not all the Occult is that they are very selective and often do not like to share their knowledge as to create a monopoly to control others.

I come at this world from having spent much of my life on computers, playing video games, and making video games. I know how to create and use logical mechanics to make the characters on screen do what I want. I know how to make that world. I want to shape this world, and make either out of it or out of something else my own world. I want to be a programmer of this world, not a subject to the cruel programmers already in charge.

I donate to and am part of the Free Software Foundation because I like the morality of having everyone be able to have access to the source code so that everyone can change any of their programs whenever they want. Microsoft, Apple, Adobe are very clear that they are for non-free proprietary control. They don't want you to see and have the ability to control your programs and your computer. They want that power for themselves.

I want to not be stuck in a clockwork world with a very few cruel people programming it for me. Wherein all I do is suffer while they benefit from my suffering. I want to learn how to program it. I see no problem with everyone knowing how to program it. Those in charge don't just want control for themselves, they want to have control over everyone. I want control for myself. And, honestly, I do not see it as a problem for everyone to have control for themselves. I want to make this world/universe how I want it to be. Or, I want to learn how to make my own world/universe to go to.

I hate this world, or much of it. It is boring, repetitive, and mostly pointless. And much of this is poor design by those in charge. Unemployment is bad. I have not yet even gotten a crappy fast food job. I am in college learning Desktop Support. I love working with computers because I can control them. They work with logic, and I understand that. I want to learn how to control this world. And/or make my own. I mostly hate how it is now. There is almost no good in it, far as I can see.

I wake up. I eat. I drink. I poo. I pee. I search for a job. If I get one, it's probably crappy. Wherein I have to pretend that I like the idiot customer to satisfy my greedy boss. I have no boyfriend. My parents are not awake and are thus difficult to talk with about anything important. I will likely not have a kid if I do not get a boyfriend. I see almost no point left in my life in this world right now or in he next year and a half until I get out of college and perhaps get a half ass decent job working with computers.

Sex has gotten boring. It has lost its thrill. Most boyfriends I try to get are either scared or idiots. And I almost never do anything fun anymore and there is almost nothing fun left to do.

That is why I am learning, and have been for about seven or so years, Spirituality. I want to know how to change this. I want to know how to take control of this world, or create another new one. This world is an awful, boring, corrupt, languishing, hellish pit.

"I see stupid people."

It's like the song, "Sound of Silence."

I see a sea of ignorant, stupid milk cows that are content at being so. I am better than that. We are all equal in Spirituality because we all have Spirit. Intellectually, I am far superior and do not deserve to be in this hell-ship with the rest of these serfs. I am on a prison plant that I deserve to either be controlling to make it better or to get a life-boat off of.

Will, Consciousness, Oneness. This is the key. Or, perhaps as you say, the mechanic by which Consciousness uses will (intent) to make manifest.

I want this key. I want to know how to use it. I want out of this place! I hate it here. I honestly do. THIS IS HELL! This world is hell! Hell is not coming, it's already here and has been so for a long time! I want out of this hell and learning the mechanic Oneness uses to create this world is my ticket out. And it seems as if no one I have spoken to yet knows how to put it into a logical, workable system.

I have candles, a dagger, a crystal ball, Tarot Cards, a talking board, and spell books. I have alters, a Kamidana, and frankly I want to know how to use the mechanic that Oneness does to get out.

I want to know what Oneness/Will is, how it works, and how it creates and changes Existence so that I can do it too. And a large motivator in that is that this world suck and I want to fix it or create a new one.

[f13ticket]

Faith is an act of logic. Same thing. You have to benefit from something to have faith in. Don't have faith and don't have logic. What is left?



Look logical at logic itself then. What is it that it is so powerful that it employs you? Since you can never leave it, it must be quite an abusive relationship. Find a logical example of your relationship with logic.

I stay with Logic only because when I was young and went with blind faith I was sold on two very painful lies.

1: Christianity.
2: That if you're a good person and be nice you will find someone, get a nice job, and that life will be happy and you'll be respected and get to go to the Christian, "Heaven."

I will never again use anything other than logic alone, as everything else is blind faith.

I have faith in nothing. I have what I call confidence. All faith is blind faith. It is blindly fallowing what you are told. Confidence is the concept wherein I continue to act in a way or explore something specific because there are logical facts that I have found and understand that strongly indicate that there are more to learn and understand. Faith is for the weak. Confidence is logically tempered risk-management.

[nectars]

I have a few things to do right now but I'm going to get back to this last post as I noticed a few things I'd already suspected, and which give a clearer picture of what your refering to.

In the meantime check your PMs.

Be careful what you wish for.

[elirien]

I stay with Logic only because when I was young and went with blind faith I was sold on two very painful lies.

1: Christianity.
2: That if you're a good person and be nice you will find someone, get a nice job, and that life will be happy and you'll be respected and get to go to the Christian, "Heaven."

I will never again use anything other than logic alone, as everything else is blind faith.

Those things you describe are the same thing. It is called identification with something which is the basis for logic to exist.

Let's look at the examples.
You identified your self in something (Christian which has logical do's and don'ts) to achieve a past experience (the experience of imagining a heaven and a life from what you read). Now both the Christian and life + heaven were illusions created in an instant by the mind that has nothing more in its arsenal then logic. It applies logic to every thing it can hold on and as such creates delusion after delusion after delusion. But for it to work it needs identification/limitation.

I have faith in nothing. I have what I call confidence. All faith is blind faith. It is blindly fallowing what you are told. Confidence is the concept wherein I continue to act in a way or explore something specific because there are logical facts that I have found and understand that strongly indicate that there are more to learn and understand. Faith is for the weak. Confidence is logically tempered risk-management.

You said that you have faith in logic which is quite blind on its own without you having faith in it. You have so much faith in it that you can't leave it. So as you call it you are quite weak. That you is the mind speaking not what you are.

Confidence is as unnecessary as faith because truth is self evident. It doesn't need you or your confidence. As you said it is based on logic and as such stands on sandy ground. It needs an agenda (faith) for it to operate.

For example, do you need confidence to sleep?
How confident are you when you sleep?

[f13ticket]

Those things you describe are the same thing. It is called identification with something which is the basis for logic to exist.

Let's look at the examples.
You identified your self in something (Christian which has logical do's and don'ts) to achieve a past experience (the experience of imagining a heaven and a life from what you read). Now both the Christian and life + heaven were illusions created in an instant by the mind that has nothing more in its arsenal then logic. It applies logic to every thing it can hold on and as such creates delusion after delusion after delusion. But for it to work it needs identification/limitation.



You said that you have faith in logic which is quite blind on its own without you having faith in it. You have so much faith in it that you can't leave it. So as you call it you are quite weak. That you is the mind speaking not what you are.

Confidence is as unnecessary as faith because truth is self evident. It doesn't need you or your confidence. As you said it is based on logic and as such stands on sandy ground. It needs an agenda (faith) for it to operate.

For example, do you need confidence to sleep?
How confident are you when you sleep?

Sleep is a natural function of the logical body computer, from a physical point of view.

From a Spiritual point of view the soul/Consciousness is exploring another world(s.) I am not yet sure if these are internal expressions of my awake and or subconscious mind; or if these are other universes in the multiverse that Oneness and or others have also created that I am visiting.

How confident I am in such a place depends on two things.
1: How lucid I am. The more "awake" to the knowledge I have that I am in a dream (another realm of reality) the more confident I am. As I have read how at this point people can create their own reality, by focusing their Will/Intent, and changing this dream realm (whatever it is) that is far more easily malleable than this realm seems to be.
2: Being born into a dream realm is much like being born into this one. Often, but not always, we forget where we came from before. Often, in these realms, I do not remember my waking life. They are sometimes the happiest I have found and that is why I sometimes I sleep more than I should. Therefore, I might be born into such a dream realm more confident there than I am here.

In a way, I do wonder if knowing how those realms operate is the key or part of the key to controlling this one. This world speaks through the same imagery and symbolism that, if allowed to, influences the subconscious mind. It is in architecture, flags, insignias, movies, video games, and television. Key words, sounds, and images. It is the basis for hypnosis. To some extent, I wonder if, "hypnosis," on a mass scale is what creates this world as it is clearly what shapes a large amount of the people of the world's minds.

This is a shared world. And most of the people sharing it with me are being programmed, literally, through these mechanisms that are mostly controlled by the, "Elite." Which is why I think it is so much harder to change this realm compared with dream realms.

Perhaps then dream realms are either personal realms, realms with very little traffic, or are simply sitting at what some might call a higher vibration. Some might say that is why they are so easy to work with. Which, from what I understand, some new agers expect this world/realm to be lifted up circa 2012. What I must ask is what they think is going to happen when the masses get the power to manifest their intent when the masses have been trained for a long time to expect a disaster and or a world government.

Seems to me the outcome of the great awakening might, by and large, already be assured. Lest the new ability gives those who want it an easier way out if they know how to use it. And perhaps this is what the Christians call the rapture, a concept some others outside of Christianity share in.

[elirien]

Sleep is a natural function of the logical body computer, from a physical point of view.

From a Spiritual point of view the soul/Consciousness is exploring another world(s.) I am not yet sure if these are internal expressions of my awake and or subconscious mind; or if these are other universes in the multiverse that Oneness and or others have also created that I am visiting.

How confident I am in such a place depends on two things.
1: How lucid I am. The more "awake" to the knowledge I have that I am in a dream (another realm of reality) the more confident I am. As I have read how at this point people can create their own reality, by focusing their Will/Intent, and changing this dream realm (whatever it is) that is far more easily malleable than this realm seems to be.
2: Being born into a dream realm is much like being born into this one. Often, but not always, we forget where we came from before. Often, in these realms, I do not remember my waking life. They are sometimes the happiest I have found and that is why I sometimes I sleep more than I should. Therefore, I might be born into such a dream realm more confident there than I am here.

In a way, I do wonder if knowing how those realms operate is the key or part of the key to controlling this one. This world speaks through the same imagery and symbolism that, if allowed to, influences the subconscious mind. It is in architecture, flags, insignias, movies, video games, and television. Key words, sounds, and images. It is the basis for hypnosis. To some extent, I wonder if, "hypnosis," on a mass scale is what creates this world as it is clearly what shapes a large amount of the people of the world's minds.

This is a shared world. And most of the people sharing it with me are being programmed, literally, through these mechanisms that are mostly controlled by the, "Elite." Which is why I think it is so much harder to change this realm compared with dream realms.

Perhaps then dream realms are either personal realms, realms with very little traffic, or are simply sitting at what some might call a higher vibration. Some might say that is why they are so easy to work with. Which, from what I understand, some new agers expect this world/realm to be lifted up circa 2012. What I must ask is what they think is going to happen when the masses get the power to manifest their intent when the masses have been trained for a long time to expect a disaster and or a world government.

Seems to me the outcome of the great awakening might, by and large, already be assured. Lest the new ability gives those who want it an easier way out if they know how to use it. And perhaps this is what the Christians call the rapture, a concept some others outside of Christianity share in.

Very good. This was an excellent example of both points.
1. What is blind faith?
2. What is logic/mind.

We are talking according to your limitations logic here. So let's leave it at one layer of logic.

Do you need any confidence or faith to sleep?

Do you bolster yourself "I can do this", listen to motivational tapes and deduct through past experience that you can sleep when you fumble with the mattress?

You know logic very good. Probably the answer has to be a yes or no, 0 or 1.

[f13ticket]

Very good. This was an excellent example of both points.
1. What is blind faith?
2. What is logic/mind.

We are talking according to your limitations logic here. So let's leave it at one layer of logic.

Do you need any confidence or faith to sleep?

Do you bolster yourself "I can do this", listen to motivational tapes and deduct through past experience that you can sleep when you fumble with the mattress?

You know logic very good. Probably the answer has to be a yes or no, 0 or 1.

That is how logic works. A long stream of paper-clips of cause and affect that are either yes or no, 0 or 1, this or that. Everything you see on your computer is fancy and bright and happy. It is all a stream of 1s and 0s. Someone knowing logic wanted to make a program. They used a high level programing language. They then sent it through a compiler and an assembler. They then got a binary. David Icke explains this world is a, give or take, video game. It works with code, mathematics, and waveforms. Atoms and energy. Functioning how they were programed to.

I do not need confidence to sleep because the body computer is programmed to sleep. I can make it sleep with intent/confidence/will, potentially, with hypnosis and or substances. That is what a sleeping pill is. If I wanted to stay awake and not sleep, I would need to learn how to focus my intent to re-program my subconscious, with or without hypnosis, to not see itself as needing of sleep. Sleep, as far as I know, is not needed for the body outside of the brain; though it can be beneficial to the body. The body was designed, programmed, by the Oneness to work this way. And, sense we are the Oneness, we can change the way it works If we learn how. The mind mostly uses it as a time to take a break. And, again, we have the soul/Consciousness visiting other realms; which is nice. Also, bed-time rituals do help some people sleep. Mostly because it puts them in the mood for it. Again, basically hypnotic suggestion programming/re-programing the subconscious mind.

Blind faith is believing in something without proof. Taking it as fact, without knowing it is fact.

Logic is a cause and effect mechanical system. I do not as much know how it works (if at all) in non-linear time. But, in linear time, it is the ruler of almost everything. (In this world anyway.)

The mind, that is a tricky one. The mind is the logical creature, construct, that is built by (maybe within) a soul. It is not the brain. The brain is the interface by which the Consciousness sends data to and gets data from the body-computer. Think of it like wireless internet or a radio controlled car. The brain is complex enough to be an antenna. Not to generate thought.

I do not know if the mind lives after death. "Allister Crowley and the Ouija Board," speaks of shells, like negatives of a picture, being shed upon death. Perhaps these are what people with past life regression are tapping into. They are seeing their old lives. As well as the fact that Ghosts and Spirits do exist. I do not know if the mind always survives or just sometimes.

[elirien]

I do not need confidence to sleep because the body computer is programmed to sleep. I can make it sleep with intent/confidence/will, potentially, with hypnosis and or substances.

Good. Which is it then?
If you are doing that then that's a lot to do
to sleep by the way. :D

[f13ticket]

Good. Which is it then?
If you are doing that then that's a lot to do
to sleep by the way. :D

These are two different logical ways to achieve the same result. No different than typing in a Terminal command line to give or computer a command, or using a graphic front end with a GUI. They are both two logical ways of getting the computer to do the same thing.

[ianw]

God Logic

About God:
God is Will. (Consciousness.) (Intelligent Energy.)
Because God is Will, God is all powerful.





Source is nothing Consciousness conscious of source.

The 0.999999999 dymention
Consciousness is aware of nothingness and decides it needs form, It perceives the void to be dark from the darkness it needs to have a point to center itself which it perceives to be white. As conscious is also something so that is the starting point. Which is infanatly small only 0.000----<--infinaty-->---0000001 in comparison to the infanate void it now inhabates which is 0.99999999 bigger It cannot move any where because it is and has nothing to move. And nothing has nowhere to move to. 0.99999999 is an exprestion of 1 and 0.000----<--infinaty-->---0000001 is a never ending journey to nothing which is 0.
nothingness The Ether,The now, is made up of 1 and 0 the polor binar + & -

The binaries 1 & 0 are the dark light and light of the minds eye.


The second and third dymention
It looks how big it is and how big it can be first it draws a shape in its minds eye it could be any but we will go with the square. It can put its minds eye inside or outside the square. Which if it decides to are two seperate dymentions but it is also the square an additional dymention and wants to see it self from every illutionary angle. being the square it can see it self as a line with four angles inside its own Consciousness.
So it visions in its minds eye more squares within the same dymentions and forms a cube. Has it studies this form it can see from different angles of perseption the cube is a plan view of a dimond has taken on a hexogen parimiter and the front of the box becomes the back and able to flip inside out. All a state of perception it had became muti dymentional Consciousness. In the 0.99999th 1st 2nd and 3rd dymentions that is four dymentions in total. Movement and time was born from illution of its minds eye.


http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae14/ianw_2010/neckercube.png


It used this architype to form many stuctures giving the illution of movement and from this measurment and time. all illution from the 0.999 dymention that is the ether. Nothingness. All can be veiwed from the Grand Plan to give a illution of a Crystal. Container.Tube Frame Or shape and are construct of its inner light. The 0 & 1 binary codes.
Its Consciousness can move trough the design and the design can move through the Consciousness. It is alive dead and both. father son and holy ghost. And it is all illution.
http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae14/ianw_2010/hyperdimentional.jpg The sarcophagus crystal


The crystal skuls and other wonders are there to remind us is illution a very real illution.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae14/ianw_2010/cristalskull.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae14/ianw_2010/X-hyperdymentionaldesigin.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae14/ianw_2010/-Xhyperdymentionaldesigin.jpg

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117128




.

[nectars]

*******************/r9s7

"If you have a dot that doesn't exist(0D), that makes a line that doesn't exist(1D), that makes a plane that doesn't exist(2D), you cannot get existence out of six non-existent planes(3D). So what you get is some unknown feature that could only be called non-existence to the 4th... Not-existence." - Nassim Haramein :D

[ianw]

*******************/r9s7

"If you have a dot that doesn't exist(0D), that makes a line that doesn't exist(1D), that makes a plane that doesn't exist(2D), you cannot get existence out of six non-existent planes(3D). So what you get is some unknown feature that could only be called non-existence to the 4th... Not-existence." - Nassim Haramein :D

the dot is a concept there for it has property.
the other dots can keep thir mits of and see to thire own property:D

Scientific Deism Explained - A Stretmediq Video - YouTube

[elirien]

These are two different logical ways to achieve the same result. No different than typing in a Terminal command line to give or computer a command, or using a graphic front end with a GUI. They are both two logical ways of getting the computer to do the same thing.

Are you sure or is that just to defend an imaginary position?

We ask for the third time. Do you need any command let go confidence to sleep?

[f13ticket]

Are you sure or is that just to defend an imaginary position?

We ask for the third time. Do you need any command let go confidence to sleep?

I already gave my answer last time. It was logical and sound. Asking the same question multiple times because you do not like/understand my answer is not going to change my answer. I am not sure how to explain it any clearer to you.

Body=computer=logical programmable and programmed machine.

Soul/intent=programmer.

Example 1, Computer: I can type in, "ifconfig eth0 down," to shut down my network. Or, I can right click my network manager applet, then click to un-check, "enable networking." Both, essentially, turn off my network card. (If I took more time I could find an exact match.) Both are two logical ways, that are different, to achieve the same thing.

Example 2, Saving a document. CTRL + S = Save. Left click file, left click save = Save.

The body has at least three logical ways of going to sleep.
1: It is pre-programed to by Oneness. After the body is awake for enough hours and or is exhausted enough; it will go to sleep on its own. It wakes up on its own later too. This is not to say it did not take intent. Rather, that the logical process is done ahead of time by Oneness. This is akin to me going into my computer and programming it to do a task at a specific condition (such as time.) Perhaps I program my computer to run, "halt -p" at 9:00PM with root privileges and for every day, not just one time or one day. My computer would then, every day, run its shutdown procedure and power down at 9:00PM. I did not need to do anything each day for this to happen; as I already set this into place with logical intent beforehand. Sleep is a conditional program that Oneness already, with logical intent, put into the body. In fact, again, it takes some effort of re-programming to avoid it. Such as intent/hypnosis to stay awake; or some sugar or caffeine.
2: Sleeping pill.
3: Hypnosis/specific intent in the moment.

So, yes, we do need a command to go to sleep. It is just that the body has already, through logical intent from the Oneness, been programmed to give that command to itself when the conditions of time awake + level of exhaustion are met.

[tarant8l]

Command prompt is better.It is the command prompt that exorcised the planet and is still chasing the nagas even across their own domains. Here is a command prompt output to start with.

/home/user> cat .nasa/sco-short
* * *

2010-Nov-23 Lib
2010-Nov-24 Sco
2010-Nov-25 Sco
2010-Nov-26 Sco
2010-Nov-27 Sco
2010-Nov-28 Sco
2010-Nov-29 Sco
2010-Nov-30 Sco
2010-Dec-01 Oph

* * *
/home/user>

[f13ticket]

Command prompt is better.It is the command prompt that exorcised the planet and is still chasing the nagas even across their own domains. Here is a command prompt output to start with.

/home/user> cat .nasa/sco-short
* * *

2010-Nov-23 Lib
2010-Nov-24 Sco
2010-Nov-25 Sco
2010-Nov-26 Sco
2010-Nov-27 Sco
2010-Nov-28 Sco
2010-Nov-29 Sco
2010-Nov-30 Sco
2010-Dec-01 Oph

* * *
/home/user>

What OS do you use?

[elirien]

I already gave my answer last time. It was logical and sound. Asking the same question multiple times because you do not like/understand my answer is not going to change my answer. I am not sure how to explain it any clearer to you.

So, yes, we do need a command to go to sleep. It is just that the body has already, through logical intent from the Oneness, been programmed to give that command to itself when the conditions of time awake + level of exhaustion are met.

So you are saying that you are the body in this sentence: "We need a command to go to sleep." Because only the body according to your example is needing an automatic working command.

If it is automatic anyway who needs a command?

[tarant8l]

Thinking can not approach True Mind, which is non-thinking. Thinking is of the (personal) devil and thus eventually "reptoid" (if and whether your personal devil resembles a naga-type inorganic or not ). These thoughts ( that you were accustomed to call your own ) are theirs. You have none.

The only time when you will know about these things is when you will not think. Go fishing.

[f13ticket]

So you are saying that you are the body in this sentence: "We need a command to go to sleep." Because only the body according to your example is needing an automatic working command.

If it is automatic anyway who needs a command?

Do you have any idea how a computer operates? You do not seem to be understanding me, or any of this, at all.

I = Soul/Consciousness.
Body = Computerized holographic space suit created by Oneness from light/energy/matter.

I use the body to explore this world. The body has an already pre-programmed by the Oneness operating system in it. It can do a lot of small things on its own. Like going to sleep and pooping.

I control the body, like an RC car, and it does what I tell it to so that I can experience this world. I also know that the body is a program. That does not mean that I necessarily know how to program it.

Sense Consciousness programmed it, Consciousness can re-program it.

The Body does NOTHING without a program command. It would sit, rot, and die. Without pre-programming it would not feel huger, a need to poo, or a need to breathe. It would bloat up, suffocate, and starve. (Whatever comes first.) It would then fall over, die, and rot back into the pool of energy and light from whence it came.

So, yes, these basic things it takes care of itself by running a looping set of commands. The very fact we age and die from old age is because the body is programmed to.

To say that the body does not need commands, automated or otherwise, is to show a complete lack of understanding to what it and a computer is as they are one in the same. Granted the body is far more complex, but as David Icke goes into great detail into in almost every book and lecture he has given in any recent time; the body is a computer, the body is a computer, the body is a computer.

I KNOW how a computer works.

[nectars]

The only time when you will know about these things is when you will not think.

^

Go fishing.

Not in physical waters unless its to meditate/contemplate. Cast the net on the right side for a more full catch.

Edit: elirien, if you dont mind me asking who is it in your avatar? (my girlfriend just asked, and I've been meaning to ask)

[elirien]

Do you have any idea how a computer operates? You do not seem to be understanding me, or any of this, at all.

I = Soul/Consciousness.
Body = Computerized holographic space suit created by Oneness from light/energy/matter.

I use the body to explore this world. The body has an already pre-programmed by the Oneness operating system in it. It can do a lot of small things on its own. Like going to sleep and pooping.

I control the body, like an RC car, and it does what I tell it to so that I can experience this world. I also know that the body is a program. That does not mean that I necessarily know how to program it.

Sense Consciousness programmed it, Consciousness can re-program it.

The Body does NOTHING without a program command. It would sit, rot, and die. Without pre-programming it would not feel huger, a need to poo, or a need to breathe. It would bloat up, suffocate, and starve. (Whatever comes first.) It would then fall over, die, and rot back into the pool of energy and light from whence it came.

So, yes, these basic things it takes care of itself by running a looping set of commands. The very fact we age and die from old age is because the body is programmed to.

To say that the body does not need commands, automated or otherwise, is to show a complete lack of understanding to what it and a computer is as they are one in the same. Granted the body is far more complex, but as David Icke goes into great detail into in almost every book and lecture he has given in any recent time; the body is a computer, the body is a computer, the body is a computer.

I KNOW how a computer works.

We understand you perfectly. What you seem to disregard is that which you call "I" is a thought of the computer and you are not a thought neither the computer.

This is not a memorized statement. Only statements in the mind can be understood or not understood.

We are not saying that there are no commands or no computer etc. We are just saying that you don't need them. It's all a gift and you leave them leaving them completely behind every night. Where is the computer the thought the logic when you sleep? We are not saying dreaming here or etheric realm or dream realm these are all still thought. Sleeping. Where is the thought there and the logic?

Computers are beautiful things but as any thing they don't last (bless them) like this computer you are wearing. Only adolescents play nintendo all day :D You would appreciate the analogy.

[elirien]

elirien, if you dont mind me asking who is it in your avatar? (my girlfriend just asked, and I've been meaning to ask)

It is this body we are wearing.

[nectars]

It is this body we are wearing.

Nice pic :)

[f13ticket]

We understand you perfectly. What you seem to disregard is that which you call "I" is a thought of the computer and you are not a thought neither the computer.

This is not a memorized statement. Only statements in the mind can be understood or not understood.

We are not saying that there are no commands or no computer etc. We are just saying that you don't need them. It's all a gift and you leave them leaving them completely behind every night. Where is the computer the thought the logic when you sleep? We are not saying dreaming here or etheric realm or dream realm these are all still thought. Sleeping. Where is the thought there and the logic?

Computers are beautiful things but as any thing they don't last (bless them) like this computer you are wearing. Only adolescents play nintendo all day :D You would appreciate the analogy.

Well, my parents didn't socialize much with others and I have had and continue to have almost no friends. To keep me entertained I was put in front of, literally, Nintendo all day. And I spend most of most of my days now on a computer. How should I know of these other concepts that you speak of so fluidly that are completely foreign to my world?

I have tried to venture out into the world, and people call me autistic/asperger. (Not sure if I am or not but both my mother and guy I tried to get to be my boyfriend say they think I am.) People don't like me. They don't know how to relate with me. And they quickly get tired of me and leave me.

My world from the age of circa 3 years to the present has been playing with, using, and creating systems that run on logic in a linear cause and affect relation. It's not easy to see out of it when all I have about what is outside of it are descriptions. I've tried to feel it, I don't. The science says that what you people talk of is real. That is why I give it any credence and am trying to figure it out. But it is nothing that I have ever experienced, and I don't know how to.

[f13ticket]

Further, much of this is frustrating and painful to learn. The more people talk of peace and love, the more it reminds me of what others feel and have that I don't. That I have tried to feel and have, and have failed to achieve.

I am not ignorant. I am not lost on the fact that I am basically a dog chasing its tail. But I don't know how else to get it.

"27. There is great danger in me; for who doth not understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into the pit called Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.
28. Now a curse upon Because and his kin!
29. May Because be accursed for ever!
30. If Will stops and cries Why, invoking Because, then Will stops & does nought.
31. If Power asks why, then is Power weakness.
32. Also reason is a lie; for there is a factor infinite & unknown; & all their words are skew-wise.
33. Enough of Because! Be he damned for a dog!"

There is a long history in almost if not every Spiritual and or Occult tradition of the Will/Consciousness/Oneness. And that it is beyond, infinite, and above logic. There has to be. It only makes logical sense that there is a Free Will Entity that is able to program this programmed world.

However, all that is logical is skew-wise.

"I have found a thought, Govinda, which you’ll again regard as a joke or foolishness, but
which is my best thought. It says: The opposite of every truth is just as
true! That’s like this: any truth can only be expressed and put into words
when it is one-sided. Everything is one-sided which can be thought with
thoughts and said with words, it’s all one-sided, all just one half, all lacks
completeness, roundness, oneness. When the exalted Gotama spoke in his
teachings of the world, he had to divide it into Sansara and Nirvana, into
deception and truth, into suffering and salvation. It cannot be done differ-
ently, there is no other way for him who wants to teach. But the world
itself, what exists around us and inside of us, is never one-sided. A person
or an act is never entirely Sansara or entirely Nirvana, a person is never
entirely holy or entirely sinful. It does really seem like this, because we
are subject to deception, as if time was something real. Time is not real,
Govinda, I have experienced this often and often again. And if time is not
real, then the gap which seems to be between the world and the eternity,
between suffering and blissfulness, between evil and good, is also a de-
ception.”

I get it. Science, and logic, support it. I am not ignorant, and I am not a child. I know of everything you both are trying to tell me, as well as Icke and these many traditions are trying to tell me as well.

But I don't feel it! I know of it, I don't know it. I don't know how to know it and feel it. And no one seems to know how to tell me how to do this.

The best they seem to be able to afford is what is, to a logical person such as myself, akin to advising me that only I, and only each person for his or her self, can figure out how to make the stare shaped plastic piece fit through the square shaped hole. This is because, as the quote above illustrates, you can not put into logical language how to get to this truth because it because divided and skew-wise in a dualistic realm, such as this. So, in a way and I am not ignorant of this, I am asking for someday to do that which is impossible to do in this world. (All things are possible, but apparently not all possible in this world.)

Then you all, who somehow have done it, keep acting like teenagers in a locker room who have had the change and I'm just the ignorant little guy who hasn't gotten it or figured it out yet. Yet, you can't help me do it and it's clear that I don't know how to. And, logically again, why would I know how to?

And, what is perhaps the most frustrating thing about this all is like the dog chasing its tail; what I am trying to get I already have. It's just, "behind," me, outside my full perception, so I can't ever fully see it the way I am trying to. Somehow, I need to do what is akin to the dog swinging its but around and licking it clean. I can reach my tail then... And I do not know of a dignified why to do the equivalent of such in my Spiritual journey to find what I already have and am.

So, what do I do now? Again, me asking this question knowing that, in a way, no one else can give me this answer and, as already stated, I do not know it. Yes, I know, a higher level me or something of that nature does know it. But I, me here, do not know it!

[elirien]

Nice pic :)

Yours too :D Very good.
We watched that movie many many times.
As we watched this movie many many times.

Well, my parents didn't socialize much with others and I have had and continue to have almost no friends. To keep me entertained I was put in front of, literally, Nintendo all day. And I spend most of most of my days now on a computer. How should I know of these other concepts that you speak of so fluidly that are completely foreign to my world?

I have tried to venture out into the world, and people call me autistic/asperger. (Not sure if I am or not but both my mother and guy I tried to get to be my boyfriend say they think I am.) People don't like me. They don't know how to relate with me. And they quickly get tired of me and leave me.

My world from the age of circa 3 years to the present has been playing with, using, and creating systems that run on logic in a linear cause and affect relation. It's not easy to see out of it when all I have about what is outside of it are descriptions. I've tried to feel it, I don't. The science says that what you people talk of is real. That is why I give it any credence and am trying to figure it out. But it is nothing that I have ever experienced, and I don't know how to.

Ok now we are at a better place.

You have a very great opportunity by what people/mind calls as ADHD/anti-social etc. It showed you that you can't trust anything and no one which means that there is no hope. This is marketed/labeled as depression but in fact it is quite more similar to birth pains and it shouldn't be drugged because it is an awesome tool. It has been said to us that no one steps to the plate without having felt several years (what we heard was 3 years) of intense pain. This is the fire of disillusionment. It is what creates all the noise of "Oh God why me" etc. It is your time now.

After a while of this adolescent behavior (which is quite good) one discerns that they are fed up with torturing themselves and that this is a pointless game (quite similar to the snake biting its own tail). As you probably observed your self most of depression is imitation of role models (idols). It is no more real then Goths being non-conformist or a "truth seeker" belittling TV programming. It is the same as saying "Oh I was such an idiot when I was 14 and squeezed that girls--". Again self torture disguised as "the mature dude". Same role play. Same player in fact :D
It only works when there is any projection to either the past or the future (which are the same because any future prediction is made with stuff from the past).

All this nintendo and self torture showed you that when you keep the mind busy with something, that you are so to speak in a "safe place" what is called "over the rainbow" by some. This is like picking a thorn from your foot with another torn. Very good thing, but when you do that you have to throw both thorns away after that. Which means nintendo/sudoku/facebook/mantras/soccer game mantras whatever taught you (it didn't really but we'll go with this term) what the trance state is.

The mind as its function jumped on it and quite logically as its only realm of operation is said "peace/bliss=nintendo". This time if you'd like we will take a step back and see who is enjoying this bliss. It is not the mind because as you have seen it is the one that labeled "peace=nintendo". It was the labeler not the experiencer. It does that very good but it is of no use in this realm.

Let's look at your other post to further our investigation.

Further, much of this is frustrating and painful to learn. The more people talk of peace and love, the more it reminds me of what others feel and have that I don't. That I have tried to feel and have, and have failed to achieve.

I am not ignorant. I am not lost on the fact that I am basically a dog chasing its tail. But I don't know how else to get it.

You get in love with that pain. If you are looking for a savior that's it. It is your line that you put on the dog so that it doesn't wander off too far and gets lost. That is peace reading peace and saying "Hey that's us!". That is a wonderful opportunity to stop and delve into that.

People that talk about peace and love are talking about their own selves. If there is something to do for peace and love it is not peace and love but doing stuff.


"27. There is great danger in me; for who doth not understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into the pit called Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.
28. Now a curse upon Because and his kin!
29. May Because be accursed for ever!
30. If Will stops and cries Why, invoking Because, then Will stops & does nought.
31. If Power asks why, then is Power weakness.
32. Also reason is a lie; for there is a factor infinite & unknown; & all their words are skew-wise.
33. Enough of Because! Be he damned for a dog!"

Oh this is beautiful :D


There is a long history in almost if not every Spiritual and or Occult tradition of the Will/Consciousness/Oneness. And that it is beyond, infinite, and above logic. There has to be. It only makes logical sense that there is a Free Will Entity that is able to program this programmed world.

However, all that is logical is skew-wise.

It is isn't it :D


"I have found a thought, Govinda, which you’ll again regard as a joke or foolishness, but
which is my best thought. It says: The opposite of every truth is just as
true! That’s like this: any truth can only be expressed and put into words
when it is one-sided. Everything is one-sided which can be thought with
thoughts and said with words, it’s all one-sided, all just one half, all lacks
completeness, roundness, oneness. When the exalted Gotama spoke in his
teachings of the world, he had to divide it into Sansara and Nirvana, into
deception and truth, into suffering and salvation. It cannot be done differ-
ently, there is no other way for him who wants to teach. But the world
itself, what exists around us and inside of us, is never one-sided. A person
or an act is never entirely Sansara or entirely Nirvana, a person is never
entirely holy or entirely sinful. It does really seem like this, because we
are subject to deception, as if time was something real. Time is not real,
Govinda, I have experienced this often and often again. And if time is not
real, then the gap which seems to be between the world and the eternity,
between suffering and blissfulness, between evil and good, is also a de-
ception.”

:D


I get it. Science, and logic, support it. I am not ignorant, and I am not a child. I know of everything you both are trying to tell me, as well as Icke and these many traditions are trying to tell me as well.

But I don't feel it! I know of it, I don't know it. I don't know how to know it and feel it. And no one seems to know how to tell me how to do this.

Memorizing it doesn't do anything. Then it becomes dead and again a rocket for the mental arsenal. If you want to listen to silence you stop talking.


The best they seem to be able to afford is what is, to a logical person such as myself, akin to advising me that only I, and only each person for his or her self, can figure out how to make the stare shaped plastic piece fit through the square shaped hole. This is because, as the quote above illustrates, you can not put into logical language how to get to this truth because it because divided and skew-wise in a dualistic realm, such as this. So, in a way and I am not ignorant of this, I am asking for someday to do that which is impossible to do in this world. (All things are possible, but apparently not all possible in this world.)

Then you all, who somehow have done it, keep acting like teenagers in a locker room who have had the change and I'm just the ignorant little guy who hasn't gotten it or figured it out yet. Yet, you can't help me do it and it's clear that I don't know how to. And, logically again, why would I know how to?

Wonderful post. The only thing to do in this is not do. This sounds very Zen and mystical but it isn't. It is very simple and that is the challenge so to speak.

If you want to do something we will ask of you the same thing that we were offered, if you'd like.

Choose a time when the house is quiet. Wash your hands and arms, your head and your feet. Shut down any electrical device, pc, lightbulb, etc. and sit down or lie on your back on something comfy. Close your eyes and listen. After a while you will hear some chatter and that chatter will address you in some way. Accept them as they are like you accept when a person walks by you on the street.

Then, write to us what happened. Don't bail. Be a man about it. Man doesn't mean bodily gender. As Mary Magdalene said "He made us men".


And, what is perhaps the most frustrating thing about this all is like the dog chasing its tail; what I am trying to get I already have. It's just, "behind," me, outside my full perception, so I can't ever fully see it the way I am trying to. Somehow, I need to do what is akin to the dog swinging its but around and licking it clean. I can reach my tail then... And I do not know of a dignified why to do the equivalent of such in my Spiritual journey to find what I already have and am.

So, what do I do now? Again, me asking this question knowing that, in a way, no one else can give me this answer and, as already stated, I do not know it. Yes, I know, a higher level me or something of that nature does know it. But I, me here, do not know it!

Do it and see that you are not the dog but which you call "behind me". It is always behind "me" because me is a covering. "Me" is like a joker card. It can become anything "me" likes.

No one can give you an answer because you don't need answer. An answer is for something to label and put it in the shelf of memory so that you can use it later. What you already are doesn't need any remembering. Because it is not a thing. If someone would run up to you in the street with great panic asking you "Have you seen me?!" wouldn't you laugh :D
Or perhaps go all Zen and hit him/her in the face with a newspaper. :D

What an investigation. Thank you very much and bless you.
When you do it. Please give us some reply alright?

[f13ticket]

Yours too :D Very good.
We watched that movie many many times.
As we watched this movie many many times.



Ok now we are at a better place.

You have a very great opportunity by what people/mind calls as ADHD/anti-social etc. It showed you that you can't trust anything and no one which means that there is no hope. This is marketed/labeled as depression but in fact it is quite more similar to birth pains and it shouldn't be drugged because it is an awesome tool. It has been said to us that no one steps to the plate without having felt several years (what we heard was 3 years) of intense pain. This is the fire of disillusionment. It is what creates all the noise of "Oh God why me" etc. It is your time now.

After a while of this adolescent behavior (which is quite good) one discerns that they are fed up with torturing themselves and that this is a pointless game (quite similar to the snake biting its own tail). As you probably observed your self most of depression is imitation of role models (idols). It is no more real then Goths being non-conformist or a "truth seeker" belittling TV programming. It is the same as saying "Oh I was such an idiot when I was 14 and squeezed that girls--". Again self torture disguised as "the mature dude". Same role play. Same player in fact :D
It only works when there is any projection to either the past or the future (which are the same because any future prediction is made with stuff from the past).

All this nintendo and self torture showed you that when you keep the mind busy with something, that you are so to speak in a "safe place" what is called "over the rainbow" by some. This is like picking a thorn from your foot with another torn. Very good thing, but when you do that you have to throw both thorns away after that. Which means nintendo/sudoku/facebook/mantras/soccer game mantras whatever taught you (it didn't really but we'll go with this term) what the trance state is.

The mind as its function jumped on it and quite logically as its only realm of operation is said "peace/bliss=nintendo". This time if you'd like we will take a step back and see who is enjoying this bliss. It is not the mind because as you have seen it is the one that labeled "peace=nintendo". It was the labeler not the experiencer. It does that very good but it is of no use in this realm.

Let's look at your other post to further our investigation.



You get in love with that pain. If you are looking for a savior that's it. It is your line that you put on the dog so that it doesn't wander off too far and gets lost. That is peace reading peace and saying "Hey that's us!". That is a wonderful opportunity to stop and delve into that.

People that talk about peace and love are talking about their own selves. If there is something to do for peace and love it is not peace and love but doing stuff.



Oh this is beautiful :D



It is isn't it :D



:D



Memorizing it doesn't do anything. Then it becomes dead and again a rocket for the mental arsenal. If you want to listen to silence you stop talking.



Wonderful post. The only thing to do in this is not do. This sounds very Zen and mystical but it isn't. It is very simple and that is the challenge so to speak.

If you want to do something we will ask of you the same thing that we were offered, if you'd like.

Choose a time when the house is quiet. Wash your hands and arms, your head and your feet. Shut down any electrical device, pc, lightbulb, etc. and sit down or lie on your back on something comfy. Close your eyes and listen. After a while you will hear some chatter and that chatter will address you in some way. Accept them as they are like you accept when a person walks by you on the street.

Then, write to us what happened. Don't bail. Be a man about it. Man doesn't mean bodily gender. As Mary Magdalene said "He made us men".



Do it and see that you are not the dog but which you call "behind me". It is always behind "me" because me is a covering. "Me" is like a joker card. It can become anything "me" likes.

No one can give you an answer because you don't need answer. An answer is for something to label and put it in the shelf of memory so that you can use it later. What you already are doesn't need any remembering. Because it is not a thing. If someone would run up to you in the street with great panic asking you "Have you seen me?!" wouldn't you laugh :D
Or perhaps go all Zen and hit him/her in the face with a newspaper. :D

What an investigation. Thank you very much and bless you.
When you do it. Please give us some reply alright?

I don't much like this in some ways. While the attention is flattering, it is odd having others analyzing me. I much prefer being on the others side as I am usually ahead of the curve and take great pleasure in doing what you just did to others.

How is lying on my back in silence any different than staring at a crystal ball in candle-light? The bell turned pink inside. Interesting sign, but nothing too amazing from it yet. I would feel more purposeful, perhaps. At least with the crystal ball I am liable to see something eventually. On my back I am liable to fall asleep.

[elirien]

I don't much like this in some ways. While the attention is flattering, it is odd having others analyzing me. I much prefer being on the others side as I am usually ahead of the curve and take great pleasure in doing what you just did to others.

How is lying on my back in silence any different than staring at a crystal ball in candle-light? The bell turned pink inside. Interesting sign, but nothing too amazing from it yet. I would feel more purposeful, perhaps. At least with the crystal ball I am liable to see something eventually. On my back I am liable to fall asleep.

Will you look at the sea from afar and say "how is swimming better then thinking?" or dive in? It is your choice.

[nectars]

Choose a time when the house is quiet. Wash your hands and arms, your head and your feet. Shut down any electrical device, pc, lightbulb, etc. and sit down or lie on your back on something comfy. Close your eyes and listen. After a while you will hear some chatter and that chatter will address you in some way. Accept them as they are like you accept when a person walks by you on the street.

Then, write to us what happened.

How is lying on my back in silence any different than staring at a crystal ball in candle-light? The bell turned pink inside. Interesting sign, but nothing too amazing from it yet. I would feel more purposeful, perhaps. At least with the crystal ball I am liable to see something eventually. On my back I am liable to fall asleep.

The method elirien has outlined there is pretty perfect(though I recall him in another thread mentioning that the heartbeat is also another good point of focus). The difference in this to a 'crystal ball' is that your not engaging the mind. By accepting the thoughts as they come up without judgement they automatically drop away; just look at them with a "huh, look at that" attitude and keep looking(really more a feeling) past them towards the silence that they arise out of. Thought is not a stream as most think, each though actually arises individually of its own accord depending on 'local conditions'(memory current emotional state etc) and when this is seen experientially they become much more managable.

You'll have your own experience of this, but its an assurance that you'll find the one thing your looking for in the last place you'd have looked for it.

On another note, to help you other than in a meditative or contemplative state you may want to check out, watch and rewatch(a few times) the videos in the following links. I posted them a while ago and considering the source material its one of the most simple pointers to the whole problem I've seen. Watch them in order from top to bottom, it is important.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFhmxOThFUA&feature=related



2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqYS5WMWV2c&feature=related



3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc1EIYKR93A&feature=related



4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywe6erdOcrs&feature=related



"The biggest con the enemy ever pulled, was convincing you that he was you"

Hope this helps.

[f13ticket]

The method elirien has outlined there is pretty perfect(though I recall him in another thread mentioning that the heartbeat is also another good point of focus). The difference in this to a 'crystal ball' is that your not engaging the mind. By accepting the thoughts as they come up without judgement they automatically drop away; just look at them with a "huh, look at that" attitude and keep looking(really more a feeling) past them towards the silence that they arise out of. Thought is not a stream as most think, each though actually arises individually of its own accord depending on 'local conditions'(memory current emotional state etc) and when this is seen experientially they become much more managable.

You'll have your own experience of this, but its an assurance that you'll find the one thing your looking for in the last place you'd have looked for it.

On another note, to help you other than in a meditative or contemplative state you may want to check out, watch and rewatch(a few times) the videos in the following links. I posted them a while ago and considering the source material its one of the most simple pointers to the whole problem I've seen. Watch them in order from top to bottom, it is important.



Hope this helps.

This video has been removed due to terms of use violation. How do I watch it?:confused:

[nectars]

This video has been removed due to terms of use violation. How do I watch it?:confused:

Huh... sure it was working just after I posted it :confused:

I'll up it somewhere or send you links.

[nectars]

Just re-uploaded.

1.(Part 1 of 4) Lessons on Identifying the ego self - Revolver by Guy Ritchie(HQ) - YouTube

2.(Part 2 of 4) Lessons on Identifying the ego self - Revolver by Guy Ritchie(HQ) - YouTube

3.(Part 3 of 4) Lessons on Identifying the ego self - Revolver by Guy Ritchie(HQ) - YouTube

4.(Part 4 of 4) Lessons on Identifying the ego self - Revolver by Guy Ritchie(HQ) - YouTube

Have fun :)

[elirien]

Just re-uploaded.

1.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyAP4lfvI2I
2.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfSOsup2GhE
3.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GBgZHzaR1Q
4.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk-ECuDIOnM
Have fun :)

We have shared these videos in another forum. We hope both you and Guy Ritchie give us the blessing :D

[nectars]

We have shared these videos in another forum. We hope both you and Guy Ritchie give us the blessing :D

Well you've got mine though I cant speak for Guy lol

I always find it wise to download these things in case of any hickups; if you have any issue with the links at any time let me know and I'll up them again or send you link to the AVI's I have.

Hope you(and whatever other forums users) enjoy them! :)

Edit: Thought I'd mention, it wasn't me that put together the clips so I have to thank the YT user that did.

[f13ticket]

Well you've got mine though I cant speak for Guy lol

I always find it wise to download these things in case of any hickups; if you have any issue with the links at any time let me know and I'll up them again or send you link to the AVI's I have.

Hope you(and whatever other forums users) enjoy them! :)

Edit: Thought I'd mention, it wasn't me that put together the clips so I have to thank the YT user that did.

Was this some sort of series? It looks like there was more here than what was contained inside these four videos.

There were interesting. And I understand them some. But I still feel I have not gotten the point. If your goal is ego separation, I must confess I do not see that as the best goal.

[f13ticket]

What is Will without reason? How can anything operate outside a mechanic?

Oh the world that they must see and posses. How great it must be to see and work outside the confines of the here and now. To for-see and shape the future. To grasp the totality of the past. To glide one's hand over all the pieces and move according to desire. Every game has a logical mechanic, that when tapped into allows for victory. Every construct has a access point for total control. This world is a toy box with a key. So much is locked in the spectrum of visible light, and of the present. How great it would be to see the future and mold it from he now. How great it would be to see beyond this house, out the window, and see the string-pullers.

Desire. Where doesth is spring? I have so long desired to do good, to be good, to love and be loved. And perchance I now stand at the precipice again tonight. For yet again I have tasted someone that could fill me, and partner me. Who could pair with me and work together in tandem to change the world for better.

Within me is so much fear and doubt. So much hate and so many scars. And yet, more frustrating than all this, is this feeling of confinement. This being strung to me seat with a belt.

"Also reason is a lie; for there is a factor infinite & unknown; & all their words are skew-wise."

Yet that which can be tapped into is that which I do not understand. Without understanding there can be no control. Without control there can be no security.

To tap into that which fallows no rules and creates its own mechanics is to tap into a boundless, raw, and aimless energy that could as easily decimate everyone before it even dares to submit to a command. It's like flooding a motherboard with electricity. It is more power than it has ever known, but it will destroy it.

I want so much, I desire it. Yet desire itself is at its highest levels outside reactionary thought. This is a mean and awful game. Far easier to presume that will is governed by a higher logic. A higher set of rules. Some code of the gods. Perchance there be still order. For chaos brings destruction. It can not be handled, controlled, or tamed. That without mechanic is without order. And that without order is chaos.

How do I make chaos into order? How do I control life?

[nectars]

Was this some sort of series? It looks like there was more here than what was contained inside these four videos.

There were interesting. And I understand them some. But I still feel I have not gotten the point. If your goal is ego separation, I must confess I do not see that as the best goal.

I'll need to keep this short as I have things to do today but I'll get back to it later.

It's actually from the movie "Revolver" by Guy Ritchie -I'd say get the full movie and watch it if you can as yes, theres more to the whole story.

It's not so much about ego seperation as it is about placing the ego back into its proper place which is as a servant and not a master. One of, if not the main reason it can be difficult to see it as a goal, is that the ego itself already sees the thread of such a thing taking place. Until absolutely sure its what you want(the observer/experiencer/Self) it wont co-operate and will throw up tests in the outer world to check your resolve.

In occult practices this is sometimes refered to as initiating the Law of Polarity; everything unlike what one claims oneself to be comes into awareness -esspecially as physical events.

Yet another phenomena that comes up is "distraction" whereby if the ego feels threatened that your making progress it will through a distortion of truth lead us into practices with more of a feel of "specialness" thus reinitiating the complexities of the mind and essentially holding us back in a position its comfortable with. One of the ways this can be seen quite quickly is when one takes up meditation for the first time. Phones will ring, people come to the door, dogs bark, peoples start shouting etc as soon as you sit down to start and then it goes calm if you give up trying.


Hope this helps.