Islamic hatred of Music and Musicians

[eternal_spirit]

the Koran has hate speech against music and various evil punishments for musicians! I take great offence to this being a musician.

it is permissible to destroy musical instruments, such as the tanboor [a stringed instrument similar to a mandolin]. This is the view of Maalik and is the more famous of the two views narrated from Ahmad. (al-Majmoo', 28/113). Ibn Abi Shaybah (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported that a man broke a mandolin belonging to another man, and the latter took his case to Shurayh. But Shurayh did not award him any compensation, i.e., he did not make the first man pay the cost of the mandolin, because it was haram and had no value. (al-Musannaf, 5/395).
What Allaah has prescribed for men is training in the use of instruments of war, such as target practice or learning to ride horses and competing in that, using spears, shields, tanks, airplanes and other things such as cannons, machine guns, bombs and anything else that may help jihaad for the sake of Allaah."
A Haram (Prohibited) Profession
It is haram (prohibited) to be work as a salesperson in a store that sells musical instruments. It is permissible to sell an instrument for its parts, such as to have it melted down, etc. It is of course, as shown by the evidences above, haram to be a musician.
Al-Baghawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) stated in a fatwa that it is haram to sell all kinds of musical instruments such as mandolins, flutes, etc. Then he said: If the images are erased and the musical instruments are altered, then it is permissible to sell their parts, whether they are silver, iron, wood or whatever. (Sharh al-Sunnah, 8/28)

It is haram (prohibited) to be work as a salesperson in a store that sells musical instruments. It is permissible to sell an instrument for its parts, such as to have it melted down, etc. It is of course, as shown by the evidences above, haram to be a musician.
Al-Baghawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) stated in a fatwa that it is haram to sell all kinds of musical instruments such as mandolins, flutes, etc. Then he said: If the images are erased and the musical instruments are altered, then it is permissible to sell their parts, whether they are silver, iron, wood or whatever. (Sharh al-Sunnah, 8/28)

Effeminate Men
Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made allowances for certain types of musical instruments at weddings and the like, and he made allowances for women to play the daff at weddings and on other joyful occasions. But the men at his time did not play the daff or clap with their hands. It was narrated in al-Saheeh that he said: "Clapping is for women and tasbeeh (saying Subhaan Allaah) is for men." And he cursed women who imitate men and men who imitate women.
Because singing and playing the daff are things that women do, the Salaf (men of the far past) used to call any man who did that a mukhannath (effeminate man), and they used to call male singers effeminate - and how many of them there are nowadays! It is well known that the Salaf said this.
Related Links:
Listening to Music and Singing (http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/1716/music.html)
Music is Haram (http://www.themuslimwoman.com/beware/MusicisHaram.htm)
The Four Imams on Music (http://islamselect.com/en/mat/46100)




Get rid of those Michael Jackson CD's


If you had a large music collection as a kaffir, have a collection just as large, but instead fill your library with Islamic audio tapes and lectures.
Think about how many hundreds or maybe even thousands of dollars you've spent on music cd's and tapes that you could now spend on a home Islamic library.



Damn didn't they almost get Jacko to convert to Islam in the end?


I know his brother did.
Yup give all your money to Islamic jihadists who would destroy our music and probably kill me for playing guitars if they had their way!

Damn those Pagans for making beautiful music huh"

[eternal_spirit]

A few examples there's loads more
(even more can be found do your own search don't attack the messenger and accuse him of using biased sources) note to the Mohammeden apologists
http://muttaqun.com/music.html


Explanation from Sheikh Ibn Baz
Shaykh Ibn Baz (may Allah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo' al-Fataawa, 3/423-424:
"Ma'aazif refers to singing and musical instruments. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that at the end of time there will come a people who will allow these things just as they will allow alcohol, zina and silk. This is one of the signs of his Prophethood, for all of this has happened. The hadeeth indicates that [musical instruments] are haram (prohibited), and condemns those who say they are halal (permissible), just as it condemns those who say that alcohol and zina are allowed. The aayaat and ahaadeeth that warn against singing and musical instruments are many indeed. Whoever claims that Allaah has allowed singing and musical instruments is lying and is committing a great evil.


We ask Allaah to keep us from obeying our desires and the Shaytaan. Even worse and more seriously sinful than that are those who say it is mustahabb. Undoubtedly this stems from ignorance about Allaah and His Religion; it is insolent blasphemy against Allaah and lying about His Laws.
What is mustahabb (recommended) is to beat on the daff [simple hand drum] at weddings. This is mustahabb for women only, in order to announce the wedding and to distinguish it from fornication.


There is nothing wrong with women singing amongst themselves, accompanied by the daff, so long as the songs contain no words that encourage evil or distract people from their duties. It is also a condition that this should take place among women only, and there should be no mixing with men. It should also not cause any annoyance or disturbance to neighbours. What some people do, of amplifying such singing with loudspeakers is evil, because of the disturbance it causes to other Muslims, neighbours and others. It is not permissible for women, in weddings or on other occasions, to use any instrument other than the daff, such as the oud, violin, rebab (stringed instrument) and so on.



This is evil, and the only concession that women are given is that they may use the daff.
As for men, it is not permissible for them to play any kind of musical instrument, whether at weddings or on any other occasion. What Allaah has prescribed for men is training in the use of instruments of war, such as target practice or learning to ride horses and competing in that, using spears, shields, tanks, airplanes and other things such as cannons, machine guns, bombs and anything else that may help jihaad for the sake of Allaah."

The Prohibition The Noble Qur'an - Luqman 31:6
And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allah, the Verses of the Qur'an) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-Fire).

Ibn Masood (ra) said about this verse "I swear by the One other than Whom there is no God that it refers to singing [ghinaa].", and he repeated this three times. Ibn Abbaas (ra) said it refered to 'singing and the like' while Jaabir (ra) is reported to view its meaning to signify singing and listening to songs. Many taabi'oon such as Mujaahid, Ikrimah, Mak-hool and Umar ibn Shu'ayb viewed it as a censure of music and song.

Hadith - Bukhari (#787) [Also related by Tabari]
Sa'id ibn Jbayr reported that Ibn 'Abbas said about the verse: "And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks" (31:6), that, "ldle talks means singing and the like."

The Noble Qur'an - Al-Isra 17:64
"And Istafiz [literally means: befool them gradually] those whom you can among them with your voice (i.e. songs, music, and other call for Allah's disobedience)..."

Hadith - Bukhari 7:494
Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari that he heard the Prophet http://muttaqun.com/graphics/saaws-long.gif saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful. And (from them), there will be some who will stay near the side of a mountain, and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and Allah will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."

The Noble Qur'an - An-Najm 53:57-62
The Day of Resurrection draws near, None besides Allah can avert it, (or advance it, or delay it). Do you then wonder at this recital (the Qur'an)? And you laugh at it and weep not, Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing, etc.). So fall you down in prostration to Allah, and worship Him (Alone).


‘Ikrimah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: it was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that al-sumood [verbal noun from saamidoon, translated here as “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)”] means “singing”, in the dialect of Himyar; it might be said “Ismidi lanaa” [‘sing for us’ – from the same root as saamidoon/sumood] meaning “ghaniy” [sing]. And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him): When they [the kuffaar] heard the Qur’aan, they would sing, then this aayah was revealed.
Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Allah says (interpretation of the meaning) “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)” – Sufyaan al-Thawri said, narrating from his father from Ibn ‘Abbaas: (this means) singing. This is Yemeni (dialect): ismad lana means ghan lana [sing to us]. This was also the view of ‘Ikrimah. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer).


Use of a Simple Drum

Use of the "duff" (simple drum) is permitted in Islam for a practical purpose (such as establishing a simple beat for exercise, rowing, and other labors), but not to be done by a Muslim for entertainment or idleness. In such instances, it must not be played as music, such as by enhancing rhythm, whistling a tune and whatnot. Ibn al-Qayyim said in Ighaathat al-Lahfaan (1/256) that the prohibition against the use of instruments refers to "all kinds of things used for entertainment."
According to the Sunnah, females can sing and beat the duff on the two 'Eids (specific Muslim celebrations) and to announce a Muslim wedding amongst themselves, and their voices shouldn't be raised loud enough or near enough to be heard by the men.
Poetry is also permitted, but it must not contain shirk (the major sin of associating a partner in worship with Allah, i.e. trinity, major or minor shirk, etc.).
The woman's voice should not be used in an attractive way around non-mahram (http://muttaqun.com/dictionary3.html#Mahram) men and to them it must be limited to necessity (physical necessity such as asking for something at the store, not emotional 'necessity' such as social conversation). Men and women must not engage in idle or social conversations with non-mahrams (http://muttaqun.com/dictionary3.html#Mahram) (those not related as specified in The Quran). Muslim men should avoid listening to a non-related (i.e. non-mahram) female voice (such as pop singers, etc.) except when it is unavoidable or due to her speaking out of necessity and not socializing.

The Noble Qur'an - An-Najm 53:57-62
The Prophet came to me after consuming his marriage with me and sat down on my bed as you (the sub-narrator) are sitting now, and small girls were beating the duff* and singing in lamentation of my father who had been killed on the day of the battle of Badr. Then one of the girls said, "There is a Prophet amongst us who knows what will happen tomorrow." The Prophet [saaws] said (to her),"Do not say this, but go on saying what you have spoken before."
* duff /daff- a one-sided drum made of animal skin.
The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:32
O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty (to Allâh), then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy, or evil desire for adultery, etc.) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner.



Hadith - Sunan of Abu Dawood, #4909, Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud
Salam ibn Miskin, quoting an old man who witnessed AbuWa'il in a wedding feast, said: They began to play, amuse and sing. He united the support of his hand round his knees that were drawn up, and said: I heard Abdullah (ibn Mas'ud) say: I heard the apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) say: Singing produces hypocrisy in the heart.

Intentions as it Relates to Hearing Music
Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Concerning (music) which a person does not intend to listen to, there is no prohibition or blame, according to scholarly consensus. Hence blame or praise is connected to listening, not to hearing. The one who listens to the Qur'aan will be rewarded for it, whereas the one who hears it without intending or wanting to will not be rewarded for that, because actions are judged by intentions. The same applies to musical instruments which are forbidden: if a person hears them without intending to, that does not matter. (al-Majmoo', 10/78).
Imaam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about playing the drum or flute, if a person happens to hear the sound and enjoy it whilst he is walking or sitting. He said: He should get up if he finds that he enjoys it, unless he is sitting down for a need or is unable to get up. If he is on the road, he should either go back or move on. (al-Jaami' by al-Qayrawaani, 262). He (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: "The only people who do things like that, in our view, are faasiq's." (Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 14/55).
Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: It is not permissible to make musical instruments. (al-Majmoo', 22/140). And he said: According to the majority of fuqahaa', it is permissible to destroy musical instruments, such as the tanboor [a stringed instrument similar to a mandolin]. This is the view of Maalik and is the more famous of the two views narrated from Ahmad. (al-Majmoo', 28/113). Ibn Abi Shaybah (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported that a man broke a mandolin belonging to another man, and the latter took his case to Shurayh. But Shurayh did not award him any compensation, i.e., he did not make the first man pay the cost of the mandolin, because it was haram and had no value. (al-Musannaf, 5/395).

[energi]

I know 'muslims' IRL that listens to Lady Gaga, so I'm not the one to take sides here. :o

[eternal_spirit]

I know 'muslims' IRL that listens to Lady Gaga, so I'm not the one to take sides here. :o

Well depends where they live and other factors.



Pakistan:
Fine for playing music in taxi

Having banned music in Pakistan's tribal areas bordering Afghanistan, the Taliban are now imposing a fine of 500 rupees for any one playing it in public, reports several news agencies

Taxi drivers complain that even possession of a CD player in their vehicles is enough to invite the 500 rupees punishment.

'I was stopped by the Taliban at Sarband village near Bara, Khyber Agency, on 24 February. They searched my taxi and found some music cassettes, and then asked me to pay 500 rupees as a fine,' the Daily Times quoted Khanimullah, a Peshawar-based taxi driver, as saying.

Another taxi driver, Ali Khan, recounted a similar experience at Sangu near the Khyber Agency border two weeks ago, when men claiming to be local Taliban fined him 500 rupees because he had a Pashto music cassette in his car."They said music is a sin and prohibited in Islam," said Khan.


New attacks on music shops

The Taliban have also intensified their attacks on shops and video stores selling music CDs and DVDs

On 27 February 2007, in Bannu in the North West Frontier Province, attackers came in broad daylight, destroyed a video shop and dumped the damaged CDs, DVDs and other material with impunity in front of the local police station.

Niaz Ali, the video centre's owner, said that armed men attacked his shop at around 8:30 am and destroyed CD players, CDs and DVDs.

Pakistan:
800 music shops bombed over three years

“No doubt this is the most critical phase in the history of our province,” writes journalist Shaheen Buneri about the situation in north-western Pakistan where he is based. “The singers and muscians are living a hard life, and most of them are displaced from their homes. My heart pains!,” he writes in an email to Freemuse.

On 9 July 2009 The Media Line published his article ‘Snuffing Music & Dance: The Taliban's Cultural Invasion’ where Shaheen Buneri describes the Taliban’s mission to ‘purge’ Swat valley of the evils of singing and dancing, and how different Taliban groups gradually has engulfed the whole of north-western Pakistan.

He summarizes events since changes in the area began in September 2007, when Maulana Fazlullah, a cleric turned militant commander, vehemently discouraged music, dancing and all forms of entertainment in his broadcasts on a pirate FM radio station.

Fled Swat valley
Shaheen Buneri reports that it has been estimated that more than 800 music shops have been bombed in different parts of Northwestern Pakistan since 2006. Hundreds of singers, musicians, poets and dancers have fled Swat valley since the Taliban's clamp-down on music in the area. They are now living in Peshawar, Lahore, and Karachi. As their livelihoods have been taken away from them, they are now confronted with serious financial crises.

Firoz Khan, a businessman managing a textile industry in Karachi, told Shaeen Buneri that the lack of opportunity for female singers and dancers to express their talents in an acceptable manner has forced some of them into prostitution.

Despite claims of impending action from the secular Pashtun Awami National Party in North West Frontier Province (NWFP), no concrete steps have been taken to protect singers and musicians from the Taliban onslaught, or to provide relief for the artists' families.

Murdered harmonium player
On 15 December 2008, unidentified militants targeted Sardar Yousafzai, a popular Pashtun singer, while he was driving his car with members of his orchestra in Malakand Agency. The bullets missed Sardar Yousafzai, but his colleague, the harmonium player Anwar Gul, was murdered in the attack.

"They want to kill me because I am a singer and I don't subscribe to their narrow version of Islam," Yousafzai said. He is currently staying in Peshawar to avoid Taliban attacks and support his family back home. He is seriously concerned about the safety of his family but he can't afford to move them to a safer place.

Replaced by Jihadi CDs
Locals believe that by targeting singers and artists, the Taliban will close the doors of artistic expression and create an environment in which their own brand of religion will prosper. The markets in Mingora, Peshawar, Charsada and Mardan were flooded with Jihadi CDs when traditional singing and dancing came to a halt.

"The people who earlier dealt in music CDs and cassettes are now selling stuff that promotes religious bigotry and obscurantism," says Ali Akbar Khan, owner of a music market in Mingora.

Shaheen Buneri is a tv and online journalist based in North West Pakistan
Read the article

Newsvine.com – 9 July 2009:
Snuffing Music & Dance: The Taliban's Cultural Invasion (http://pamirpost.newsvine.com/_news/2009/07/09/3010543-snuffing-music-dance-the-talibans-cultural-invasion)

[dragon fang]

I will ask you a question:
Who controls the music industry?
And what is the purpose of music industry?

[dedicate]

Well, dragonfang, they also control the food and clothing industry. And I don't see you doing without those things. That's not a good argument.

The point is,, people should not be required to follow the teachings of the Koran,, whether the Koran be correct or incorrect is irrelevant. People have a God given right to dress as they choose, listen to music as they choose, get married as they choose, and go to church they choose. You understand the person's -- God Given Rights? .. (Whould I be put to death for saying these things?_)

If the Koran points out they are doing the wrong thing,, then I suggest you do the right thing, leaving it at that. And all these silly laws over other people's lives,, is not something which God is concerned with. Live and let live.

[decode reality]

I will ask you a question:
Who controls the music industry?
And what is the purpose of music industry?

A rhetorical question, surely? The same people who control all the other ones, as I'm sure you know (as do most if not all who post here).
What point are you trying to make?

[armoured_amazon]

I noticed they've wheeled Cat Stevens out under his new guise, decades after stopping him from filling the world with joy. Suddenly, it's okay for him to be a musician; I guess they need his cash.

:rolleyes:

[decode reality]

It varies, ie,

There are some very popular 'Islamic artists' - Sami Yusuf, Dawud Wharmsby, Yusef (formerly Cat Stevens), Zain Bhika and younger groups like Outlandish and Sound of Reason. Also many who do bhangra and bollywood. Artists like Yusef are popular and accepted by many Muslims as an alternative to Beyonce shaking her bootay.

But there's a split in the Muslim world as to what's seen as acceptable and what isn't. Musicians in some parts of Pakistan definitely are being harassed. Also, there are conservative Muslims over in the UK who won't deal with anything except religious nasheeds. A bit like 'fund-a-mentalist' Christians.

African muslims have no problem integrating music with Islam. In fact, the Arab world could learn a lot from what they do.

Most younger Muslims aren't so strict but it's still quite a taboo for women to be in the field. Google the artist known as 'Deeyah' and see what struggles she has.

[decode reality]

I noticed they've wheeled Cat Stevens out under his new guise, decades after stopping him from filling the world with joy. Suddenly, it's okay for him to be a musician; I guess they need his cash.

:rolleyes:

You reading my mind or what? I just mentioned him. :)

[decode reality]

Pop Culture in the Name of Islam
Written by Yvonne Ridley


Monday, 24 April 2006

PART ONE

I FEEL very uncomfortable about the pop culture which is growing around some so-called Nasheed artists. Of course I use the term ‘Nasheed artists' very lightly. Islamic ‘boy bands' and Muslim ‘popsters' would probably be more appropriate.

Eminent scholars throughout history have often opined that music is haram, and I don't recall reading anything about the Sahaba whooping it up to the sound of music. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for people letting off steam, but in a dignified manner and one which is appropriate to their surroundings.

The reason I am expressing concern is that just a few days ago at a venue in Central London, sisters went wild in the aisles as some form of pop-mania swept through the concert venue. And I'm not just talking about silly, little girls who don't know any better; I am talking about sisters in their 20's, 30's and 40's, who squealed, shouted, swayed and danced. Even the security guys who looked more like pipe cleaners than bulldozers were left looking dazed and confused as they tried to stop hijabi sisters from standing on their chairs.

Of course the stage groupies did not help at all as they waved and encouraged the largely female Muslim crowd to "get up and sing along." (They're called ‘Fluffers' in lap-dancing circles!)

The source of all this adulation was British-born Sami Yusuf, who is so proud of his claret-colored passport that he wants us all to wave the Union Jacks. I'm amazed he didn't encourage his fans to sing "Land of Hope and Glory." Brother Sami asked his audience to cheer if they were proud to be British ,and when they responded loudly, he said he couldn't hear them and asked them to cheer again.

How can anyone be proud to be British? Britain is the third most hated country in the world. The Union Jack is drenched in the blood of our brothers and sisters across Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine. Our history is steeped in the blood of colonialism, rooted in slavery, brutality, torture, and oppression. And we haven't had a decent game of soccer since we lifted the World Cup in 1966.

Apparently Sami also said one of the selling points of Brand UK was having Muslims in the Metropolitan Police Force! Astafur'Allah! Dude, these are the same cops who have a shoot-to-kill policy and would have gunned down a Muslim last year if they could tell the difference between a Bangladeshi and a Brazilian. This is the same police force that has raided more than 3000 Muslim homes in Britain since 9/11. What sort of life is there on Planet Sami, I wonder? If he is so proud to be British, why is he living in the great Middle Eastern democracy of Egypt?

Apparently the sort of hysteria Sami helped encourage is also in America, and if it is happening on both sides of the Atlantic, then it must be creeping around the globe and poisoning the masses. Islamic boy bands like 786 and Mecca 2 Medina are also the subject of the sort of female adulation you expect to see on American Pop Idol or the X-Factor. Surely Islamic events should be promoting restrained and more sedate behavior.

Do we blame the out-of-control sisters? Or do we blame the organizers for allowing this sort of excessive behavior which demeans Islam? Or do we blame the artists themselves?

[decode reality]

Abu Ali and Abu Abdul Malik, struggling for their Deen, would certainly not try to whip up this sort of hysteria. Neither would the anonymous heroic Nasheed artists who sing for freedom; check out Idhrib Ya Asad Fallujah, and you will know exactly what I mean.

Fallujah is now synonymous with the sort of heroic resistance that elevated the Palestinians of Jenin to the ranks of the resistance written about in the Paris Communeand the Siege of Leningrad. The US military has banned the playing of any Nasheeds about Fallujah because of the power and the passion it evokes.

If those Nasheeds had sisters running in the streets whooping and dancing, however, the Nasheeds may be encouraged because of haram activity surrounding them.

Quite frankly, I really don't know how anyone in the Ummah can really let go and scream and shout with joy at pleasure domes when there is so much brutality and suffering going on in the world today. The rivers of blood flow freely from the veins of our brothers and sisters from across the Muslim world.

Screaming and shouting the names of musical heroes drown out the screams coming from the dungeons of Uzbekistan where brothers and sisters are boiled alive in vats of water. How many will jump up and down and wave their arms in the air, shouting wildly for justice for our kin in Kashmir, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Palestine, and Iraq?

There are many more killing fields as well across the Asian and Arab world. Will you climb on theater chairs and express your rage over Guantanamo Bay and other gulags where our brothers and sisters are being tortured, raped, sodomized, beaten, and burned? Or will you just switch off this concerned sister and switch on to the likes of Sami Yusuf because he can sell you a pipe dream with his soothing words and melodic voice?

Oh, Muslims, wake up! The Ummah is not bleeding; it is hemorrhaging. Listen not to what is haram. Listen to the pain of your global family.

[eternal_spirit]

I will ask you a question:
Who controls the music industry?
And what is the purpose of music industry?
There was no music industry when the Koran and Hadeeths against Music and musicians came into being. Some of what I posted are ancient rulings from centuries ago.

Music is so much BIGGER than the industry and involves many good people/sentient souls musicians and listeners alike.

You can scream Satan/Dijjal runs the Music Biz, but I think it's nonsense. Even if there is some negative control and influences by some bad people. The people involved the artists/musicians are a tiny minority of those involved in the WORLD OF MUSIC.



I wonder do you agree with hatefull bile and Islamic rulings on Music?

[pert]

How can anyone be proud to be British? Britain is the third most hated country in the world. The Union Jack is drenched in the blood of our brothers and sisters across Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine. Our history is steeped in the blood of colonialism, rooted in slavery, brutality, torture, and oppression.

If it's so shit here why don't you fuck off back to Afghanistan

[eternal_spirit]

Pop Culture in the Name of Islam
Written by Yvonne Ridley Isn't she that crackpot English woman who converted to Islam.

Off on one of her pro death cult rants and anti English spiel. Whilst ignoring 1400 years of continuing Islamic atrocities world wide in many more countries, in more numerous varied manipulative ways - than those she points a finger at.

Which
has nothing to do with music.

She focuses on what she sees with her Islamic fundamentalist eyes as negative about certain bands and their effects on some Muslims.

She'd rather them all be covered up in full body gear and burkhas etc out of sight out of mind, slaves to the men and being fed hate and bile from the Koran and fundamentalist preachers Imams etc - who over 90% in the UK are said to be from Pakistan and Bangladesh, some schooled in Saudi and Egypt they are - "fundamentalist/conservative nut jobs". Stuck in the 7/8 the Century.

(the Sikh, Hindu, Christian and Buddhist etc musicians and people testify to the horrible treatment at the hands of the fundamentalist Muslims of those countries I named that the Preachers come from.

Who may well agree with the bile and hatred (Islamic ruling Koran and Hadeeths on Music)

(http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5792445.ece)This article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5792445.ece) is written by a former radical Muslim by the name of Ed Husain.....


Quilliam's report, Mosques Made in Britain, reveals the true extent of the mess. We found that 97 per cent of imams, or leaders, were from overseas and 92 per cent were educated abroad, mostly in Pakistan or Bangladesh.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1058854211&postcount=135
While ignoring the billions of people world wide who have beautiful sacred spiritual etc experiences from music.

[eternal_spirit]

If only Muhammad had of stayed home practiced music and formed a band the Meccan boys or something. History may well have been different.

[pert]

Isn't she that crackpot English woman who converted to Islam.



Yes, she is to Islamism what Lord Haw Haw was to Hitlerism

[eternal_spirit]

Yes, she is to Islamism what Lord Haw Haw was to Hitlerism
I got another. Members of the present Government who help Islamise the UK.

All sell outs. Yet they couldn't sell a ticket if they where the evening's entertainment.

[decode reality]

There was no music industry when the Koran and Hadeeths against Music and musicians came into being. Some of what I posted are ancient rulings from centuries ago.

Music is so much BIGGER than the industry and involves many good people/sentient souls musicians and listeners alike.

You can scream Satan/Dijjal runs the Music Biz, but I think it's nonsense. Even if there is some negative control and influences by some bad people. The people involved the artists/musicians are a tiny minority of those involved in the WORLD OF MUSIC.



I wonder do you agree with hatefull bile and Islamic rulings on Music?

Well said - very much where I stand.

I think that some of these videos "exposing the illuminati controlled music industry" do more harm than good. They only add to the fundamentalists's dogmatic mindset about music.

[decode reality]

Isn't she that crackpot English woman who converted to Islam.

Off on one of her pro death cult rants and anti English spiel. Whilst ignoring 1400 years of continuing Islamic atrocities world wide in many more countries, in more numerous varied manipulative ways - than those she points a finger at.

Which
has nothing to do with music.

She focuses on what she sees with her Islamic fundamentalist eyes as negative about certain bands and their effects on some Muslims.

She'd rather them all be covered up in full body gear and burkhas etc out of sight out of mind, slaves to the men and being fed hate and bile from the Koran and fundamentalist preachers Imams etc - who over 90% in the UK are said to be from Pakistan and Bangladesh, some schooled in Saudi and Egypt they are - "fundamentalist/conservative nut jobs". Stuck in the 7/8 the Century.

(the Sikh, Hindu, Christian and Buddhist etc musicians and people testify to the horrible treatment at the hands of the fundamentalist Muslims of those countries I named that the Preachers come from.

Who may well agree with the bile and hatred (Islamic ruling Koran and Hadeeths on Music)



While ignoring the billions of people world wide who have beautiful sacred spiritual etc experiences from music.


Her article is very poor. I'm surprised how much praise she's received on it. But I doubt if any of the people into those bands take any notice and they vote with their feet. With Yvonne Ridley, it's a classic "from one extreme to another". I find this a lot. People like her who are always ready to knock the West but completely omits what people are doing in the name of her (new) religion.

[converger]

i think the main reason behind islam prohibition for music is that music can divert people from worshiping and they think music is next to debauchery .

[mephibosheth]

the Koran has hate speech against music and various evil punishments for musicians! I take great offence to this being a musician.


haha...a musician eh? surely you must be a DJ...who does nothing but loop the same samples over and over and over and over again and again. :D

But seriously, I think some religions' vehement rejection of music has to do with vibrations and how they impact the human spirit. If a human being got hold of their own form through realization of their vibratory frequency, that might be a little self-empowering. Music is or can oftne be seductive and trance-enducing, hypnotic, and because it stimulates emotions, a powerful propaganda tool.

8)

[decode reality]

haha...a musician eh? surely you must be a DJ...who does nothing but loop the same samples over and over and over and over again and again. :D

But seriously, I think some religions' vehement rejection of music has to do with vibrations and how they impact the human spirit. If a human being got hold of their own form through realization of their vibratory frequency, that might be a little self-empowering. Music is or can oftne be seductive and trance-enducing, hypnotic, and because it stimulates emotions, a powerful propaganda tool.

8)

My view on this is that even if musicians are removed from the equation, then those frequencies, good and bad, are going to have an outlet. It's just that it will be through another vehicle. Human beings themselves have the ability to be seductive and subliminal, as we well know.

[eternal_spirit]

haha...a musician eh? surely you must be a DJ...who does nothing but loop the same samples over and over and over and over again and again. :D

Ha ha witty metaphors comparing loops to my posts. I play string instruments mostly and Blues harp harmonica and a some other stuff.

But seriously, I think some religions' vehement rejection of music has to do with vibrations and how they impact the human spirit. If a human being got hold of their own form through realization of their vibratory frequency, that might be a little self-empowering. Music is or can oftne be seductive and trance-enducing, hypnotic, and because it stimulates emotions, a powerful propaganda tool.

8)


The reverse would be music used in ritual religious or other wise. Used to enhance the atmosphere and put the participants in the right frame of mind.

Take for a few examples - the ragas of India or the Greek's with their Muses both based on musical knowledge, some improvisation by the musicians relating to deities and the divine.

The Greeks once had music improvisation competitions as an Olympic event.

[elirien]

Let's take it from today into "the past". :D

2008:

Mercan Dede - 800

Mercan Dede feat. Ceza - 800 - YouTube

around 2007:

Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) - God is the Light.

Yusuf Islam - God is the Light (Allah Nurdur) (Live) - YouTube

Made in the 90's:

Yansimalar - Bab-i Esrar

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Again the 90's:

Sezen Aksu - La ilahe illallah

la ilahe illallah_sezen aksu - YouTube

1778-1846:

Hammamizade İsmail Dede Efendi

DEDE EFENDI - HICAZ TAKSIMI - YouTube


For example. These are just from this general area (Eurasia).

[2013]

I noticed they've wheeled Cat Stevens out under his new guise, decades after stopping him from filling the world with joy. Suddenly, it's okay for him to be a musician; I guess they need his cash.

:rolleyes:

Maybe he,s being followed by a moon shadow , moon shadow moon shadow :eek:

[cathar]

Just my opinion ,but it looks like Islam ,the religion,was designed to produce people with stunted imaginations,,the women are to have children & the men are for filling the ranks
of the military...IN THE BEGINNING that was the idea...but after the armies of Islam were stopped & driven back it was left with the same idea ,Quantity but not quality...
but no longer with a conquer the world agenda...Then the NWO people went in & revived
the idea of conquering the world so that the first world countries would have the best enemy money could buy...Terrorism is good for creating a police state,,,False Flags to blame on Islam,,War is a money making business...etc.

[cinder_darkskys]

I noticed they've wheeled Cat Stevens out under his new guise, decades after stopping him from filling the world with joy. Suddenly, it's okay for him to be a musician; I guess they need his cash.

:rolleyes:

He been a member of Islam since bax in the late 70's, in the US of A He was even blacklisted by the US of A in the med 90's.

I have been watch and tracking posts and whos making them, in reguards to Islam.

You know I have a hard time with these kinds of wasie fuzzie laws, which strangle enought, I can never find in my book. Oh ya if U brake the fussie wasie law, you Die or worst.

So when discussing these, kind of thing using religion an law.
Religion laws, are set of morial mental laws, which aplly to life for the after life. in this case, your fore fathers should have been teaching you this conduct. generaly these are enforced by kings and lesser kings.

The phycial world is where a phyical set of laws based on the real-world phycial rule of law, or government law.

A lot governments do not use God laws as a template, they choisen to create a government, lead by men. Most of these fall to pices with out a religion, base of some kind, We live and we die, between is life were, we marrie and make kids. it the same all over the world, why because we all work love andlive

God based law systems, these are a set of laws usaly base on the believe of God as the Highest form. So the princables in general are based on this believe system, over all and in general, we are trying to build a law system, based on god < but not a religion ) but trying to build a law system he could be proud of.

Hence Honor and code of Conduct, standing as the rightious, code of conduct when dealing with the princable of LAW.

I think its important, to look at the person that derectly effect, a way of thinking.

If I said God is infanet diverity, we all agree, because it something we cant seem to understand.

But when a man diside these thing, we are always find LIMITED diverity < women rights taken away, Artist right to make aliving, as and artist and the place that art which is given derectly from God as IDEL hand or minds < that got to be a sin of morialy, the way God made him, to make music, each song never play never writen, by Cat Stevens realy the worst kind of mind control, truly a sin that Cat Steven is not playing for world wide.

And if someone like and Artist < like Cat Stevens ), is closer to god, then the priest tell the artist, these things. what dose this tell you, Why is not cat Stevens playing for the world.

holyman has a book writen in Error, because he is a man.

maybe you should look at whos, created these passages. Diging deeper what was there bussiness they in, Who did they serve, God or just another King.

Are these words handed down from someone we all know Moses Abreham, Or were they made up by peaple, after all this, who saw the World a centan way and wanted, every one to thing this way. If we stop dreaming, we have no defence.

Spartic
Any one can be a soldior, not every one can be and artist and sing for the world.

Any thing any one that relates Arts to IDEL hand or minds is wrong, it stops diverity. It the show a kings trying to stop peaple from DREAMING.

It why I say Religion and governments is a preverssion of both.

When I studdie the Vatican. I find a small countery with in a countery. With in this state defended by another countery, and not the contery, which it sits in.

Out side the Vatican the world spins, The Countery that the Vatican is with in, has it own governing system, which it can choose to fallow the Vatican words or not. The power of Religion is reduce but uplifted to voice. They must lead but good morial conduct and logic.

As humans we all fall < sin ), but those who get up off there keens, dust our self off and, start again, who finish

Good topic eternal_spirit

Topic tracker

I hope this helps

sorry for my type'os I will edit

PeaceLovesAll

[kappy0405]

The Quran (and thus Islam) says nothing to suggest that music is prohibited.

If God didn't want people singing (which all Muslim countries basically do with the call to prayer), he/it wouldn't have given us the ability to speak.

Hadiths did to Islam what the Talmud did to Judaism and what Catholicism did to Christianity.

Muslims (all monotheists) need to stop listening to these and stick with their holy books.

In other words, Islam doesn't hate music & musicians, stupid people do.

[decode reality]

The Quran (and thus Islam) says nothing to suggest that music is prohibited.

If God didn't want people singing (which all Muslim countries basically do with the call to prayer), he/it wouldn't have given us the ability to speak.

Hadiths did to Islam what the Talmud did to Judaism and what Catholicism did to Christianity.

Muslims (all monotheists) need to stop listening to these and stick with their holy books.

In other words, Islam doesn't hate music & musicians, stupid people do.

Pre-Islamic cultures used music as part of their spiritual ceremonies and in many areas of life. Perhaps music was labeled haram as a way to supplant any opposition to Islam. That's just a theory that may or may not have a real basis.

In the present day, let's look at it. People bombing music shops and physically harassing musicians in the name of the 'religion of Peace'. If it wasn't so tragic it'd be hilarious.

[zarah]

My understanding of the Quran is that it doesn't instruct people to 'hate' music, rather it discourages against practices which could lead a Muslim into immoral or amoral practices. Christianity preaches exactly the same concept.

Don't let that stop you getting your teeth into yet another Islam bashing topic though.


And for the record Cat Stevens converted in the 70's, and is thought to have said the following infamous comment:

"I'm glad I converted to Islam before I met any Muslims."

[decode reality]

My understanding of the Quran is that it doesn't instruct people to 'hate' music, rather it discourages against practices which could lead a Muslim into immoral or amoral practices. Christianity preaches exactly the same concept.

Don't let that stop you getting your teeth into yet another Islam bashing topic though.


And for the record Cat Stevens converted in the 70's, and is thought to have said the following infamous comment:

"I'm glad I converted to Islam before I met any Muslims."

Preventing musicians from making a living or actually physically intimidating is a pretty immoral and amoral practice, to put it mildly. Different cultures have their own ways of connecting with the divine. It's a shame that this isn't appreciated by the extremists and the fearful people who tow their line.

[elirien]

Preventing musicians from making a living or actually physically intimidating is a pretty immoral and amoral practice, to put it mildly. Different cultures have their own ways of connecting with the divine. It's a shame that this isn't appreciated by the extremists and the fearful people who tow their line.

Yeah but those that extremely appreciate it are the same. You see all those Rhianna weirdo culture thing or million dollar soccer players. Temperance is the thing.

[decode reality]

Yeah but those that extremely appreciate it are the same. You see all those Rhianna weirdo culture thing or million dollar soccer players. Temperance is the thing.

Absolutely.

[zarah]

Preventing musicians from making a living or actually physically intimidating is a pretty immoral and amoral practice, to put it mildly. Different cultures have their own ways of connecting with the divine. It's a shame that this isn't appreciated by the extremists and the fearful people who tow their line.

Well as far as I know, the Quran doesn't state that muscians must be stopped from making music, so again you're using a cultural interpretation of Islam to cloud the issue.

It's a shame that all religions are full of extremists and fearful people who tow the line, but there you go.

[decode reality]

The following might be seen as going off tangent:

Think back to previous eras: in Britain, the kind of music you were into and clothes you wore could see you in battles with rival gangs. Mods and rockers, punks and skins, etc. That's just as brainless, even though it's become romanticised about. I don't think it happens as much now. And saying that, they didn't hate music as much as they hated each other.

[decode reality]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8170803.stm

Lahore feels under siege

Pakistan’s performing artists face deadly occupational hazards. In Lahore, the city's music festival was bombed, and cafés and theatres are bombed in co-ordinated overnight raids, BBC News’ David Loyn reported on 27 July 2009

“Pakistan feels like a country on a hinge of history. This year for the first time it has turned on the extremist version of Islam that it nurtured for so long. But the decisive battles in its war with the Taliban might not turn out to be on the North West Frontier Province, but on this cultural frontier of hearts and minds, as a nation struggles with its identity in the world,” writes BBC’s David Loyn in his report from the ‘cultural frontline’ in Pakistan, the city Lahore.

“The Taliban have staged their most spectacular attacks in Pakistan recently on five-star hotels — the Pearl Continental in Peshawar and the Marriott in Islamabad — but it is the Punjab province capital, Lahore, that has faced the most constant attention,” he writes.

[eternal_spirit]

Allman Brothers Band - In Memory of Elizabeth Reed - YouTubeAllman Brothers Band - In Memory of Elizabeth Reed


The Allmans' classic song was already heart-wrenchingly beautiful, but this acoustic version takes it to a whole 'nother plane of existence. Found on the "2nd Set" album, it's sure to please any Liz lovers.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_K5ls3SJu5Qo/SbgBtxL697I/AAAAAAAAAWE/gctVgNByDoI/s400/Allman-Brothers-Band_l.jpg
If these guys are Satanicly Dijjaly evil I am Alice in Wonderland. :cool:

[tannah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTFm9gFz3_w&feature=relatedAllman Brothers Band - In Memory of Elizabeth Reed


The Allmans' classic song was already heart-wrenchingly beautiful, but this acoustic version takes it to a whole 'nother plane of existence. Found on the "2nd Set" album, it's sure to please any Liz lovers.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_K5ls3SJu5Qo/SbgBtxL697I/AAAAAAAAAWE/gctVgNByDoI/s400/Allman-Brothers-Band_l.jpg
If these guys are Satanicly Dijjaly evil I am Alice in Wonderland. :cool:

Yum yum. Music is one of the greatest gifts of all.

[nickos]

music is HOW 'god'communicates with the people. i firmly believe that musicians are 'prophecies' of a sort. in fact ANYBODY who 'creates' something new IS! see the ash drummers t-shirt in the sleeve photos of their album 'free all angels'-you MUST create!
i base this belief after seeing a car advert-hyundai's accent, the advert was just a white background with the words 'possession is everything!'

[tannah]

A spirit earns the right to have talent in the arts, or some other role in society that draws listeners. There is no guarentee that a spirit will use this talent in a beneficial way. Yet there will always be a percentage of musicians that will use their talent for spiritual means and other social issues, and these musicians can be more influential than politicians and priests.

[decode reality]

We probably have to distinguish between the fundamentalist/traditional view of Islam, sharia being its most extreme (though sharia is more a 'cultural' thing) and the more moderate Muslims. Obviously there are grey areas. Certainly for Sufis, music is part of their practice and many Muslims of all 'sects' love the work of the likes of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

I know Muslim guys in their 50s and 60s who are musicians and they certainly see being a musician as no contradiction with their faith.

The 'Islamic Revival' in the middle east during the 70s, of which Ayatollah Khomeni (Committee of 300 member) was a figurehead, sought to rid Arab/Islamic nations as what it saw as contaminating Western influences, music/pop culture being a prime target. Those are the seeds of the Taliban bombing music shops everywhere. Most of us if we're unhappy with the service at a store go to customer services. Blowing the store up is a bit of an overreaction, dontcha think? ;)

Muslim women in some places are less likely to go into the field than men, I think. The stuff in the Qu'ran about a woman being 'modest' means that they're not really encouraged to go that route. But there are many who do still go into it.

It's only the crazy fundamentalists and the sheep that follow them that are anti music.

[decode reality]

A spirit earns the right to have talent in the arts, or some other role in society that draws listeners. There is no guarentee that a spirit will use this talent in a beneficial way. Yet there will always be a percentage of musicians that will use their talent for spiritual means and other social issues, and these musicians can be more influential than politicians and priests.

Musicians have the ability to capture the zeitgeist in ways that any politician would envy. This is why some of them have aligned themselves with these kinds of artists, for political means. Marley was courted by the Jamaican prime minister Michael Manley...Red Wedge back in the 80s...Blair inviting Noel Gallagher to Downing St etc.

[dragon fang]

Sorry for replying late but you missed my other question:
What is the purpose of the music industry?
Answer:
Brainwashing, Brainwashing, Brainwashing.
Seriously, Just clear your mind and watch the music videos in MTV and you will see what I am talking about.

[lightgiver]

natacha atlas - allah ou akbar

natacha atlas - allah ou akbar - YouTube

Hmm Nice :) :D

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9653/roadsweeper.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/roadsweeper.jpg/)

all this hate needs sweeping up

Natacha Atlas-Leysh Natarak - YouTube

Why are We Fighting?
Why are we fighting when we are all together?
Listen to you heart and you will know the truth
Listen to your heart for it knows the truth
Between us there is a long history
In love there is peace
In peace there is love
Let's make good for we are brothers
How great is the mercy and blessing of God
Let's return to peace
Between us there is a long history
Let's return to love
How merciful God is
Let's make good for we are brothers
God bless and have mercy

[decode reality]

Sorry for replying late but you missed my other question:
What is the purpose of the music industry?
Answer:
Brainwashing, Brainwashing, Brainwashing.
Seriously, Just clear your mind and watch the music videos in MTV and you will see what I am talking about.

'The music industry' isn't MTV. That's tantamount to saying that the healing industry is Big Pharma. And besides, I saw Bob Marley, Lauryn Hill and Public Enemy on MTV. I've seen great concerts by Miles Davis and classical composers. I've seen Ravi Shankar on there. Please try to understand that not all musicians are illuminati whores or out to brainwash. Apart from not being true, it's deeply ignorant. :rolleyes:

[elirien]

'The music industry' isn't MTV. That's tantamount to saying that the healing industry is Big Pharma. And besides, I saw Bob Marley, Lauryn Hill and Public Enemy on MTV. I've seen great concerts by Miles Davis and classical composers. I've seen Ravi Shankar on there. Please try to understand that not all musicians are illuminati whores or out to brainwash. Apart from not being true, it's deeply ignorant. :rolleyes:

He is right. The music industry is MTV. Although the most interesting part is that "music industry" only outlines that which is not music but rather the industry part. MTV doesn't sing, neither does it play an instrument. It gathers certain sounds and makes a song of its own which is quite mechanic in a way aimed at a certain range of frequencies.

[decode reality]

He is right. The music industry is MTV. Although the most interesting part is that "music industry" only outlines that which is not music but rather the industry part. MTV doesn't sing, neither does it play an instrument. It gathers certain sounds and makes a song of its own which is quite mechanic in a way aimed at a certain range of frequencies.

That may well be for a large proportion of music but they don't control ALL of it. They certainly don't control the creative process, unless a musician chooses to allow it to. If I choose to watch a song/performance by an artist with a message that carries no negative baggage, then it's the artists who are creating the experience, which I think only the most inflexible thinker could define as 'evil'.

I make a point of separating the music makers from the mediums that are often necessary for them to get their work out to vast swathes of people. Too often, those who use their religious text to advocate that music is 'evil', are lumping everyone into the same boat. It becomes 'guilt by association'.

We've seen the many 'anti music' things attributed to Islam quoted earlier in the thread, here are some more views by Muslims themselves that I think add another point of view:

http://www.freemuse.org/sw14339.asp

Whatever the origin of this idea of 'music is haram', I see it as another case of a religious doctrine that has veered too far to the extreme. Ascetic "gurus" and catholic priests do the same thing with sex, with catastrophic results in some places. This might be seen as flippant, but maybe it's like someone who has given up smoking and wants to stop everyone around them from doing it. Music has its place in the scheme and if you believe in a Creator that made everything, then you would also have to say that the Creator created music - obviously.

[dragon fang]

If MTV isn't the Illuminati's creation then what is this?

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

And this?
MTV Illuminati Commercial - YouTube

And what about the Mega-Rituals they do every year in MTV's Music Video Awards? The Rituals are getting bigger every year.

As I said, Music is about brainwashing, You don't have to be Satanic or anything, Just accept the brainwashing techniques in your music and they will make you famous and rich, Or you will fail or have very limited success at best.

[decode reality]

If MTV isn't the Illuminati's creation then what is this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLkSGUGBDz0

And this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCmJX1hRWW0

And what about the Mega-Rituals they do every year in MTV's Music Video Awards? The Rituals are getting bigger every year.

As I said, Music is about brainwashing, You don't have to be Satanic or anything, Just accept the brainwashing techniques in your music and they will make you famous and rich, Or you will fail or have very limited success at best.

You're saying ALL music is brainwashing? You're going to have to answer that.

I hardly watch MTV, except for the rare occasions when people such as the artists I've cited are there. I have loads of music by people such as them in my collection, by many artists who have never even appeared on tv, never mind MTV.

[elirien]

If MTV isn't the Illuminati's creation then what is this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLkSGUGBDz0
And this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCmJX1hRWW0
And what about the Mega-Rituals they do every year in MTV's Music Video Awards? The Rituals are getting bigger every year.

As I said, Music is about brainwashing, You don't have to be Satanic or anything, Just accept the brainwashing techniques in your music and they will make you famous and rich, Or you will fail or have very limited success at best.

Brother did you never listen to anything but MTV?

Never listened to any classical music both western and "oriental"?

I understand the people that listened to Jay-Z for years and then turned on that idea but seriously, that never was considered music anyway. verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-solo-verse-chorus-chorus, that's not music.

Blue in Green by. Miles Davis - YouTube

Listen to this and tell me how it brainwashes you or anyone else. We would recommend some decent mocca or any other coffee :D

[decode reality]

Brother did you never listen to anything but MTV?

Never listened to any classical music both western and "oriental"?

I understand the people that listened to Jay-Z for years and then turned on that idea but seriously, that never was considered music anyway. verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-solo-verse-chorus-chorus, that's not music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoPL7BExSQU

Listen to this and tell me how it brainwashes you or anyone else. We would recommend some decent mocca or any other coffee :D

And I can just hear the naysayers:

"Ah, but Miles Davis was inducted as a Knight of Malta, so he must have been a 'shill'". Actually, I think only the person who sees a conspiracy behind everything would make that leap. :p Miles' music to me is such a symbol of being true to yourself, being real, being creative and the 'power of now'. All of those qualities are in his work. If anything, there are religious people who need to study some artists!

On the subject of MTV?

Can you imagine a young person who wishes to be a doctor of some sort and then gets told that they are going into the medical mafia? And yet they might want to practise medicine in an holistic and ethical manner? Or they may even want to be in mainstream medicine.

This is largely how I feel when too much emphasis is placed upon MTV/Sasha Fierce/Gaga etc. I wonder if the guys who make youtube after youtube video 'exposing' them (as if there aren't zillions out there already :rolleyes:) realise that inadvertently they are publicising those artists? Of course, it's good to know about the industry's darkside and pitfalls but what about the artists who are doing music that doesn't fall under that category? It gets overlooked.

I think those who expose the music industry can be more obsessed by celebrity than the average "sheep". At least they are when they devote ALL OF THEIR TIME to highlighting negativity and no positive stuff.

[dragon fang]

Singers who aren't connected with the elites won't be famous and are rarely heard.

[elirien]

Singers who aren't connected with the elites won't be famous and are rarely heard.

That's a very good thing. True singers don't need the corruption of the masses. What's the problem? Anyone making anything to have fame has signed a pact with the body already. Aren't we supposed to do everything for Allah brother?

Bless you.
Peace be with you.

[elirien]

And I can just hear the naysayers:

"Ah, but Miles Davis was inducted as a Knight of Malta, so he must have been a 'shill'". Actually, I think only the person who sees a conspiracy behind everything would make that leap. :p Miles' music to me is such a symbol of being true to yourself, being real, being creative and the 'power of now'. All of those qualities are in his work. If anything, there are religious people who need to study some artists!

Ah that's the dilemma in pretty much anything. There came a man named Jesus a wondrous being. After his departure from public display the industry came in and as everyone knows now we have all sorts of insanity called "baptist such and such church", "episcopal church" etc. It is the aim of man to say "x is like me". It is mans nature. Like printing a compass and square makes a bible a masonic bible.


Can you imagine a young person who wishes to be a doctor of some sort and then gets told that they are going into the medical mafia? And yet they might want to practise medicine in an holistic and ethical manner? Or they may even want to be in mainstream medicine.

This is largely how I feel when too much emphasis is placed upon MTV/Sasha Fierce/Gaga etc. I wonder if the guys who make youtube after youtube video 'exposing' them (as if there aren't zillions out there already :rolleyes:) realise that inadvertently they are publicising those artists? Of course, it's good to know about the industry's darkside and pitfalls but what about the artists who are doing music that doesn't fall under that category? It gets overlooked.

Well those "artists" reflect the yoke of the animal self or the beast so to speak. Exposing the beast is good but not necessary after a while. If you can at least entertain the thought that there are world class conspiracies then you can very easily entertain the thought that your body has kind of animal inclinations. You don't have to go all crazy about psychological or archetypal symbology to know that. Your riding a horse that can get quite wild at times.


I think those who expose the music industry can be more obsessed by celebrity than the average "sheep". At least they are when they devote ALL OF THEIR TIME to highlighting negativity and no positive stuff.

We like Nietzsche's approach in this matter: "If you look into the Abyss to much it will begin to look back". Enough is enough. Most of the time we are quite amazed to see these videos. Even if your mind is the most ignorant about symbology a simple Rhianna video makes one think "why even watch?".

[thereisonlywe]

Too bad I missed this thread.

Anyways, I read Quran more than once and I can clearly tell you that there is no single verse that points to music. Those verses are invented by someone and ES copied and pasted them here (as always).

Quran is your guide for reaching the Truth. Instead of wasting your precious time with speculations, do something for yourself. Full Stop.

[ben87]

I am about 6 doors up from a mosque, the love music, play it regularly and are very friendly.

[eternal_spirit]

Too bad I missed this thread.

Anyways, I read Quran more than once and I can clearly tell you that there is no single verse that points to music. Those verses are invented by someone and ES copied and pasted them here (as always).

Quran is your guide for reaching the Truth. Instead of wasting your precious time with speculations, do something for yourself. Full Stop.
More lies as usual. Read the first two posts and see how wrong you are. Liar.

[thereisonlywe]

More lies as usual. Read the first two posts and see how wrong you are. Liar.

I don't know if you are getting paid by U.S or something, I really don't care. You can only fool who have prejudice. Who wants the Truth can use a legitamate Quran to check those verses.

Love&Peace

[decode reality]

Ah that's the dilemma in pretty much anything. There came a man named Jesus a wondrous being. After his departure from public display the industry came in and as everyone knows now we have all sorts of insanity called "baptist such and such church", "episcopal church" etc. It is the aim of man to say "x is like me". It is mans nature. Like printing a compass and square makes a bible a masonic bible.



Well those "artists" reflect the yoke of the animal self or the beast so to speak. Exposing the beast is good but not necessary after a while. If you can at least entertain the thought that there are world class conspiracies then you can very easily entertain the thought that your body has kind of animal inclinations. You don't have to go all crazy about psychological or archetypal symbology to know that. Your riding a horse that can get quite wild at times.



We like Nietzsche's approach in this matter: "If you look into the Abyss to much it will begin to look back". Enough is enough. Most of the time we are quite amazed to see these videos. Even if your mind is the most ignorant about symbology a simple Rhianna video makes one think "why even watch?".

I spoke with a friend yesterday and we were talking about the way in which Jesus, Martin Luther King and Ghandi are depicted posthumously. Invariably, the 'rebellious/rocking the establishment' aspect is played down with each figure.

Much popular music is definitely an expression of the animal spirit. And for that reason, a Rihanna video is grist to the mill for anyone who wants evidence of the "inherent evil of music". But there are ample exceptions to those kinds of artists, if we want to find them.

The Nietzsche quote is right on the money! I must check some of his work out.

[decode reality]

Too bad I missed this thread.

Anyways, I read Quran more than once and I can clearly tell you that there is no single verse that points to music. Those verses are invented by someone and ES copied and pasted them here (as always).

Quran is your guide for reaching the Truth. Instead of wasting your precious time with speculations, do something for yourself. Full Stop.

As far as I'm aware, it's the Hadith and Sunna that scholars are taking their interpretations from, rather than the Quran. The verse in the Quran that is often cited as 'evidence' that music is haram is as follows (apologies if it isn't 100% correct, the Muslims may wish to check their Quran and correct me if needs be)

"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks to mislead from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-Fire)". (Surah Luqman 31:6)

'Idle talks' is seen as a euphemism or veiled reference to music. Seems more like idle scholarship to me.

The passage from the Hadith is as follows:

"From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcohol, and the use of musical instruments as lawful. Allah will destroy them during the night...and will change the rest of them to monkeys and pigs and they will remain so until the Day of Resurrection".

From what I see, it's only the people who are following the Hadith interpretations in the most traditional and fundamentalist way that have a zero tolerance policy on musical expression. Also I've found that those who may tell you that they don't promote music will often listen to it on the quiet! They're merely fronting and when in view of their fellow Muslims they have to put forward an 'orthodox/strict' view, for politically and religiously correct reasons.

[dragon fang]

What annoyed about hadith pointing out that Music is bad and is a way of manipulation?
The elites knows this and this is why the Music Industry is "The most satanic Industry.".

[decode reality]

What annoyed about hadith pointing out that Music is bad and is a way of manipulation?
The elites knows this and this is why the Music Industry is "The most satanic Industry.".

It simply isn't true and I thought that Muslims would follow the Quran and not the hearsay that was written over two centuries after the Prophet's death. You speak about music as though every artist is an agent of evil and not even the elite see it this way. Why do you think certain artists are promoted whilst others are obscure in comparison?

I hope you'll respond.

[elirien]

As far as I'm aware, it's the Hadith and Sunna that scholars are taking their interpretations from, rather than the Quran. The verse in the Quran that is often cited as 'evidence' that music is haram is as follows (apologies if it isn't 100% correct, the Muslims may wish to check their Quran and correct me if needs be)

"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks to mislead from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-Fire)". (Surah Luqman 31:6)

'Idle talks' is seen as a euphemism or veiled reference to music. Seems more like idle scholarship to me.

The passage from the Hadith is as follows:

"From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcohol, and the use of musical instruments as lawful. Allah will destroy them during the night...and will change the rest of them to monkeys and pigs and they will remain so until the Day of Resurrection".

From what I see, it's only the people who are following the Hadith interpretations in the most traditional and fundamentalist way that have a zero tolerance policy on musical expression. Also I've found that those who may tell you that they don't promote music will often listen to it on the quiet! They're merely fronting and when in view of their fellow Muslims they have to put forward an 'orthodox/strict' view, for politically and religiously correct reasons.

It simply isn't true and I thought that Muslims would follow the Quran and not the hearsay that was written over two centuries after the Prophet's death. You speak about music as though every artist is an agent of evil and not even the elite see it this way. Why do you think certain artists are promoted whilst others are obscure in comparison?

I hope you'll respond.

What annoyed about hadith pointing out that Music is bad and is a way of manipulation?

You are witnessing the kafirun in Islam decode reality. This is not a stab at you dragon fang since you seem to just repeat things that others said. The Qur'an knows those others well.

What does kafirun mean? Kafirun means veiler. It is the same people that veil even their bodies, but we understand them. Those that have secrets need to veil them. It is necessary to do when humans are among animals.

Now returning to the ahadith. First of all if someone is a Muslim they know first that Hadith means sayings, second that the Qur'an is the best of all sayings and third that Prophet Mohammad forbid it to write down what he said. If you want to go against what he said, have at it, but take responsibility and say that it is your borrowing from someone who did something that the Prophet forbid. We have nothing against Hadith. Some are even very useful, but Hadith doesn't represent Islam.

Setting your back against a Hadith is not orthodox and not fundamentalist. Any orthodox or fundamentalist Muslim takes only first God then the Qur'an as source.

Now, dragon fang, if music is bad then you must be the source of all evil (which we know you are not and we like you very much). Your body is music, that body you are wearing is vibration. Those that you call elite (which is a propaganda word there is only one elite and that is that of Allah) which are in reality a bunch of Black Magicians use vibration to lull you to sleep. That is their only power. Wake up and see what music is, listen to the music of your heart. Listen to how Qur'an is recited. Isn't it music?

That very computer is making music by manipulating electrical frequencies. Leave it if you believe in Hadith writers (not Qur'an).

Please consider this. We know that you have the option to repeat the phrase that you have memorized from the mind control handlers but you also have the option to at least understand the phrase that you are saying.

3:78 (Asad) And, behold, there are indeed some among them who distort the Bible with their tongues, so as to make you think that [what they say] is from the Bible, the while it is not from the Bible; and who say, "This is from God," the while it is not from God: and thus do they tell a lie about God, being well aware [that it is a lie].

7:201 (Asad) Verily, they who are conscious of God bethink themselves [of Him] whenever any dark suggestion from Satan touches them [165] (http://www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/action.lasso.asp?-database=Quran&-Table=tblMasterTranslit&-Response=Sreply1.asp&-Error=SReply1.asp&-MaxRecords=20&-token=Asad%7C%7C%3Cta%3Etrue%3C/ta%3E%3Ctt%3Etrue%3C/tt%3E%3Cts%3Etrue%3C/ts%3E%3Cdc%3Etrue%3C/dc%3E%3Ctx%3Etrue%3C/tx%3E%3Cal%3Etrue%3C/al%3E&-op=cn&Asad=think&-sortorder=Ascend&-sortfield=CV&-Search#) - whereupon, lo! they begin to see [things] clearly,

[decode reality]

You are witnessing the kafirun in Islam decode reality. This is not a stab at you dragon fang since you seem to just repeat things that others said. The Qur'an knows those others well.

What does kafirun mean? Kafirun means veiler. It is the same people that veil even their bodies, but we understand them. Those that have secrets need to veil them. It is necessary to do when humans are among animals.

Now returning to the ahadith. First of all if someone is a Muslim they know first that Hadith means sayings, second that the Qur'an is the best of all sayings and third that Prophet Mohammad forbid it to write down what he said. If you want to go against what he said, have at it, but take responsibility and say that it is your borrowing from someone who did something that the Prophet forbid. We have nothing against Hadith. Some are even very useful, but Hadith doesn't represent Islam.

Setting your back against a Hadith is not orthodox and not fundamentalist. Any orthodox or fundamentalist Muslim takes only first God then the Qur'an as source.

Now, dragon fang, if music is bad then you must be the source of all evil (which we know you are not and we like you very much). Your body is music, that body you are wearing is vibration. Those that you call elite (which is a propaganda word there is only one elite and that is that of Allah) which are in reality a bunch of Black Magicians use vibration to lull you to sleep. That is their only power. Wake up and see what music is, listen to the music of your heart. Listen to how Qur'an is recited. Isn't it music?

That very computer is making music by manipulating electrical frequencies. Leave it if you believe in Hadith writers (not Qur'an).

Please consider this. We know that you have the option to repeat the phrase that you have memorized from the mind control handlers but you also have the option to at least understand the phrase that you are saying.

3:78 (Asad) And, behold, there are indeed some among them who distort the Bible with their tongues, so as to make you think that [what they say] is from the Bible, the while it is not from the Bible; and who say, "This is from God," the while it is not from God: and thus do they tell a lie about God, being well aware [that it is a lie].

7:201 (Asad) Verily, they who are conscious of God bethink themselves [of Him] whenever any dark suggestion from Satan touches them [165] (http://www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/action.lasso.asp?-database=Quran&-Table=tblMasterTranslit&-Response=Sreply1.asp&-Error=SReply1.asp&-MaxRecords=20&-token=Asad%7C%7C%3Cta%3Etrue%3C/ta%3E%3Ctt%3Etrue%3C/tt%3E%3Cts%3Etrue%3C/ts%3E%3Cdc%3Etrue%3C/dc%3E%3Ctx%3Etrue%3C/tx%3E%3Cal%3Etrue%3C/al%3E&-op=cn&Asad=think&-sortorder=Ascend&-sortfield=CV&-Search#) - whereupon, lo! they begin to see [things] clearly,

Thanks Elirien.

As a musician and lover of music myself, it's very eye-opening and at times quite sad to find people like Dragon Fang, who is seemingly unable to see a single positive merit of music.

I recently read about a hypnotherapist who had successfully helped a woman to get over a psychological impediment that was ruining her life. The woman had refused to consider that kind of treatment; she felt that it was against Christ and that Christ would heal her. Well, Christ did heal her - doesn't the Lord work in mysterious ways? ;)

When 'sticking to your guns' becomes rigid, inflexible thought, that's dangerous! Life, being an expression of the Infinite, is not so rigid.

If you're reading this, Dragon Fang, do you understand why I used that anecdote? If you believe that the entire scope of music is all freemasonic rappers, singers and record labels (which you seem to be suggesting), then you are ignorant, in the purest sense of the word. You are choosing to focus on a few dubious examples and using them to represent all of us. Is the musician who uses music to raise awareness of oppressive regimes doing something bad in your eyes? Is the musician whose music helps a person to find a sense of peace/harmony also to be condemned? That is the kind of oppressive, inflexible thought of the Taliban and we all know that they are about as 'Islamic' as George Bush is 'Christian'!

[dragon fang]

It simply isn't true and I thought that Muslims would follow the Quran and not the hearsay that was written over two centuries after the Prophet's death. You speak about music as though every artist is an agent of evil and not even the elite see it this way. Why do you think certain artists are promoted whilst others are obscure in comparison?

I hope you'll respond.

We follow the Quran first and the hadith second:
This is a small example from the Quran.

"O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination. ( Quran 4:59)"

Here is the thing: When you listen the music you have "Fun" right?
And when you are in the "Fun" state you aren't focusing right?
And if you aren't focusing then your unconscious mind kicks in right?
Now... Can you imagine what sick ideas can come to your head from the lyrics or the music video without you noticing?

If you think that I think all musicians are satanists who sold their souls or fame monsters puppets or whatever then you are wrong.
I mean name me 5 famous artists who their music doesn't give the idea that life is about money, sex, crime, having fun all the times.
Guess what? They FAIL!
This is why MJ failed when he got free from them and his songs started to talk about peace and love, They made sure that he fail and make people don't listen to him.

Why did he make Micheal fail? He didn't put symbolism about hate there except in two songs where he challenges the Illuminati telling them to leave him alone.
They didn't want people to hear them because music is brainwashing and it doesn't matter if it is in good or bad, It sucks your unconscious mind and ideas will easily get in your head.

[decode reality]

We follow the Quran first and the hadith second:
This is a small example from the Quran.

"O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination. ( Quran 4:59)"

Here is the thing: When you listen the music you have "Fun" right?
And when you are in the "Fun" state you aren't focusing right?
And if you aren't focusing then your unconscious mind kicks in right?
Now... Can you imagine what sick ideas can come to your head from the lyrics or the music video without you noticing?

OK....there's nothing wrong with 'fun' in itself. That's why we were given the ability to laugh and our five senses. It provides a temporary release of tension. It's only when the pursuit of pleasure leads us that it becomes problematic, in the sense of a way of life that keeps you rooted in animalistic behaviour. But no less so than the pursuit of pure, austere discipline alone. Some people can go down that route, most aren't ready to and I'm not even so sure that it's effective. It's about moderation.

Regarding the lyrics and the music video, once more, it depends what the lyrical content is and the images on the screen.

If you think that I think all musicians are satanists who sold their souls or fame monsters puppets or whatever then you are wrong.
I mean name me 5 famous artists who their music doesn't give the idea that life is about money, sex, crime, having fun all the times.
Guess what? They FAIL!
This is why MJ failed when he got free from them and his songs started to talk about peace and love, They made sure that he fail and make people don't listen to him.

Why did he make Micheal fail? He didn't put symbolism about hate there except in two songs where he challenges the Illuminati telling them to leave him alone.
They didn't want people to hear them because music is brainwashing and it doesn't matter if it is in good or bad, It sucks your unconscious mind and ideas will easily get in your head.

FIVE ARTISTS (5 of my favourites): Bob Marley, The Specials, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, India Arie....do you want me to mention any more? ;)

I still maintain that music is no less a form of brainwashing than other mediums. Although I do understand how the system has made sure that certain types of music function as vehicles of our enslavement

Have replied above, thanks.

[picha]

Now... Can you imagine what sick ideas can come to your head from the lyrics or the music video without you noticing?



SIck ideas like cutting peoples hands and feet off on opposite sides?

[elirien]

I mean name me 5 famous artists who their music doesn't give the idea that life is about money, sex, crime, having fun all the times.
Guess what? They FAIL!


Just look up eternal spirits topic about "How Islam hates music" or something :D We posted there many Muslim subjects that are very famous and naturally don't talk about money, sex crime and having fun all the times what ever that means :D

By the way what do you mean with fun or work for that matter?

edit: Oh hey. This is this topic :D

[dragon fang]

I am not saying "fun" is bad, But we must be careful while we have fun and most people don't.

And I am not talking about artists who are 80 years old, They are famous but back then the elites didn't control music, They did at the start of metal through lyrics and then through secret symbolism through hiphop like here.
Early Illuminati Influence In Old School Hip Hop Video - YouTube
And now anyone who wants to be successful or continue his success (Like Rihanna and Christina Augilera.) must join the elites.
Even if they aren't connected, Just look at the fans. They are worshiping them for god's sake.

[decode reality]

I am not saying "fun" is bad, But we must be careful while we have fun and most people don't.

And I am not talking about artists who are 80 years old, They are famous but back then the elites didn't control music, They did at the start of metal through lyrics and then through secret symbolism through hiphop like here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZZOT9TTYs8
And now anyone who wants to be successful or continue his success (Like Rihanna and Christina Augilera.) must join the elites.
Even if they aren't connected, Just look at the fans. They are worshiping them for god's sake.

I agree....I can't listen to the radio. I was in a taxi somewhere and I heard Rihanna's Rude Boy song....couldn't believe it, left very little to the imagination. Artists have no accountability unless they are conscientious. And yes, the fans are mass worshipping them. Not limited to music either. If Bollywood's Shahrukh Khan so much as utters a word, I know that millions of 'Muslims' go into a swoon as though it's God speaking. That kind of frenzy is unhealthy.

[elirien]

I am not saying "fun" is bad, But we must be careful while we have fun and most people don't.

Very good but what are you saying when you say "fun". We honestly don't understand how you use it. What is fun for you?


And I am not talking about artists who are 80 years old, They are famous but back then the elites didn't control music, They did at the start of metal through lyrics and then through secret symbolism through hiphop like here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZZOT9TTYs8And now anyone who wants to be successful or continue his success (Like Rihanna and Christina Augilera.) must join the elites.
Even if they aren't connected, Just look at the fans. They are worshiping them for god's sake.

We are not talking about bodily age either. If you want to see manipulation through music you have to start very very earlier then 80's metal. Although you have to be curious what it manipulates.

We understand you perfectly in this matter dragon fang but please consider this verse from the Recitation (Qur'an):

Behold, the hypocrites seek to deceive God - the while it is He who causes them to be deceived [B][15] (http://www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/action.lasso.asp?-database=Quran&-Table=tblMasterTranslit&-Response=Sreply1.asp&-Error=SReply1.asp&-MaxRecords=20&-token=Asad%7C%7C%3Cta%3Etrue%3C/ta%3E%3Ctt%3Etrue%3C/tt%3E%3Cts%3Etrue%3C/ts%3E%3Cdc%3Etrue%3C/dc%3E%3Ctx%3Etrue%3C/tx%3E%3Cal%3Etrue%3C/al%3E&-op=cn&Asad=deceive&-sortorder=Ascend&-sortfield=CV&-Search#) [8] (http://www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/action.lasso.asp?-database=Quran&-Table=tblMasterTranslit&-Response=Sreply1.asp&-Error=SReply1.asp&-MaxRecords=20&-token=Asad%7C%7C%3Cta%3Etrue%3C/ta%3E%3Ctt%3Etrue%3C/tt%3E%3Cts%3Etrue%3C/ts%3E%3Cdc%3Etrue%3C/dc%3E%3Ctx%3Etrue%3C/tx%3E%3Cal%3Etrue%3C/al%3E&-op=cn&Asad=deceive&-sortorder=Ascend&-sortfield=CV&-Search#) And when they rise to pray, they rise reluctantly, only to be seen and praised by men, remembering God but seldom,

This is the definition of the success and fame you are talking about. Why is it bad that only "the elites" can achieve this and the so "innocent masses" aim for this. It is perfect. It is as it has been said many many times "their job" and we are here to do ours. Any person going to a Rhianna concert deifying a hollow name (like Rhianna or Christina Augulera or dragon fang or elirien) and a hollow flesh vessel are as deluded as those on the stage. It is a closed deal between them.

We are not saying this is good or bad but this is as much music as showing your leg is "fun". It is idol worship sold as music (to both the idol worshipers and "truth seekers") and those that are seeing this as music are only body conscious (what the quran and the astral realm defines as animals). These are not bad people and animals are not bad either, they are deluded people.

Why even bother? The lyrics on their own tell what it is and your body tells it too. If you are not sleeping while walking on earth you will perceive it. If you are sleeping it is very rude to wake up someone just you want them to be awake. If they want to awake they'll come to you. Not the other way around.

Bless you and thank you.

[dragon fang]

Yep, Most people we see as "bad" are only deceived.
And most people are connected and enjoying this system that they will work to protect it.

[elirien]

Yep, Most people we see as "bad" are only deceived.
And most people are connected and enjoying this system that they will work to protect it.

Very true and God shows both us and them his/her eternal Jalal (Fury/dynamism/manifestations) and Jamal (forgiveness/beauty/silence/potential).

You're fury was very good and if we misunderstood please forgive us.

[decode reality]

Sad thing is I can't think of too many famous artists who haven't either been completely ripped off, or become alcoholics and junkies. The music business generally is a very nasty piece of work, especially if we're talking the upper echelons. I can understand why some people have a zero tolerance policy towards music.

[decode reality]

I couldn't find Eternal Spirit's thread on a similar topic, maybe the moderators might want to merge it, if they feel it's necessary.

Clearly, the majority of Muslims have no problems whatsoever with music. Most Muslim weddings ALWAYS have either live music or DJs, it's almost obligatory. A good deal of the entertainment companies, radio stations, agents, promotions, record companies, be they Asian or middle eastern, are Muslim run. The only difference is in the religious worship and arguably, the call to prayer can sound a lot like someone singing.

I've done some research, and yes, there have been a growing number of people (who I suspect have been duped by the elite created 'Islamic Revival'), which shuns and demonises music/musicians. Without question, there have been and there are idiots (representing sharia law) who have a zero tolerance policy towards music, enforced by violence. Be it in parts of Pakistan, Egypt Somalia, Afghanistan etc. They believe they are doing their bit for God but they are nothing but agents of chaos for the Orders.

It's very easy to get caught up in anti Muslim feeling and anti religion feeling in general. I've been guilty of that. I don't foresee myself being any less critical but just wanted to add this.

[rapunzel]

When I had Sky tv I sometimes used to watch the Muslim channel. It featured a series of Imams answering questions phoned in by viewers. I remember several different Imams declaring that singing and dancing were forbidden and one poor girl was forbidden to take part in a school entertainment she had been selected for. It was said that singing and dancing was Ok if it took place within the home and between women only to celebrate a birth or a wedding.

[eternal_spirit]

Hi Decode :) link to that thread

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114906

Yes Rapunzel that's correct, there's a more in depth explanation on the other thread. :)

[engelsblume]

Sheesh I'd fit perfect in that anti music community. :D I love silence and quiet...I hate it when some random song plays in my head all day and then it's hard to concentrate on meditating and such. There's also that saying that only in peaceful waters can one see his reflection...meaning, when the mind is quiet and relaxed...and music is horrible for that. That's just me of course. :)

[decode reality]

When I had Sky tv I sometimes used to watch the Muslim channel. It featured a series of Imams answering questions phoned in by viewers. I remember several different Imams declaring that singing and dancing were forbidden and one poor girl was forbidden to take part in a school entertainment she had been selected for. It was said that singing and dancing was Ok if it took place within the home and between women only to celebrate a birth or a wedding.

Yes, that's not surprising, some do hold that view. I can agree, if it's the MTV booty shaking type dancing but I think the imams hate any type of music and dance. Maybe because they're both means to make you feel good about yourself that don't require the Qu'ran.

[decode reality]

Hi Decode :) link to that thread

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114906

Yes Rapunzel that's correct, there's a more in depth explanation on the other thread. :)

Cheers Eternal. Maybe this'll be merged.

[decode reality]

Sheesh I'd fit perfect in that anti music community. :D I love silence and quiet...I hate it when some random song plays in my head all day and then it's hard to concentrate on meditating and such. There's also that saying that only in peaceful waters can one see his reflection...meaning, when the mind is quiet and relaxed...and music is horrible for that. That's just me of course. :)

I'm much the same. I couldn't be one of these people who has music on all the time, it irritates me. There are times when that's nice. But I wouldn't want a world with no music at all. The radio's so poor these days that at times I think me and those Imams have a lot in common. Yeah, I'm an 'opposame'. :p

[elirien]

Sheesh I'd fit perfect in that anti music community. :D I love silence and quiet...I hate it when some random song plays in my head all day and then it's hard to concentrate on meditating and such. There's also that saying that only in peaceful waters can one see his reflection...meaning, when the mind is quiet and relaxed...and music is horrible for that. That's just me of course. :)

Beautifully said.
Well there are Vipassana retreats quite similar to what you defined :D
It has been some time since we never ever listened to music. A break would perhaps do some good.

I couldn't find Eternal Spirit's thread on a similar topic, maybe the moderators might want to merge it, if they feel it's necessary.

Clearly, the majority of Muslims have no problems whatsoever with music. Most Muslim weddings ALWAYS have either live music or DJs, it's almost obligatory. A good deal of the entertainment companies, radio stations, agents, promotions, record companies, be they Asian or middle eastern, are Muslim run. The only difference is in the religious worship and arguably, the call to prayer can sound a lot like someone singing.

I've done some research, and yes, there have been a growing number of people (who I suspect have been duped by the elite created 'Islamic Revival'), which shuns and demonises music/musicians. Without question, there have been and there are idiots (representing sharia law) who have a zero tolerance policy towards music, enforced by violence. Be it in parts of Pakistan, Egypt Somalia, Afghanistan etc. They believe they are doing their bit for God but they are nothing but agents of chaos for the Orders.

It's very easy to get caught up in anti Muslim feeling and anti religion feeling in general. I've been guilty of that. I don't foresee myself being any less critical but just wanted to add this.

Very good definition. Most you hear called Sharia law is man made law to take their local traditions under a religious context. It's double speak 101.

Sharia law is God's law. God doesn't need any dude to implement that law. Truth is truth even and especially without you and me. Similar to what is called "Kader" or in English "Destiny/Fate". It is not some sort of predestination. It is God's laws like when you throw an apple in the air it falls down due to the law of Gravity. Very simple.

We know that language makes it look mysterious when someone says "Shariah" since it sounds like an effect in Street Fighter sort of game. Nothing mysterious about it.

Bless you all. :D

[kbeet]

I will ask you a question:
Who controls the music industry?
And what is the purpose of music industry?

now its music
#$^% muslems are never happy
i like music i allso like mountain climbing hors back riding which i own my own horse and swimming hikeing bike rideing boxing judo rope climbing free fall running archery i dont need to follow your allah to follow god and do all that to

[ben87]

Allah is the only god, if you believe in god you believe in allah, regardless of whether you acknowlegde allah.

[marpat]

Allah is the only god, if you believe in god you believe in allah, regardless of whether you acknowlegde allah.

And by this logic allah is also, jehovah, zeus, Amun, etc

[elirien]

And by this logic allah is also, jehovah, zeus, Amun, etc

Yes and the Hindu "Gods" are the attributes of him/her.
Allah in Arabic and God in English is also quite more, don't you think?

It is what in the Hindu language depicted as Shiva Consciousness as far as our meager knowledge goes. You'll probably know better than us.

[eternal_spirit]

And by this logic allah is also, jehovah, zeus, Amun, etc
They all have different ways of worshipping their deities and have different teachings, life styles which are ingrained in their cultures and sometimes laws.

If it's the same God why the variations?

[marpat]

They all have different ways of worshipping their deities and have different teachings, life styles which are ingrained in their cultures and sometimes laws.

If it's the same God why the variations?

Because people have different needs and requirements, environmental factors, languages, customs, etc. If you imagine god as being a mountain then the different religions are people climing the mountain from different directions. The goal may be the same but the journey may differ quiet a bit.

[marpat]

Yes and the Hindu "Gods" are the attributes of him/her.
Allah in Arabic and God in English is also quite more, don't you think?

It is what in the Hindu language depicted as Shiva Consciousness as far as our meager knowledge goes. You'll probably know better than us.

Well this is the way I have always seen it. They are just different outlooks on one idea. Its like using different maths formulae to come up with the same result, or using different bus routes to get to the same destination.

[elirien]

Well this is the way I have always seen it. They are just different outlooks on one idea. Its like using different maths formulae to come up with the same result, or using different bus routes to get to the same destination.

Very true. Bless you :D

[kbeet]

Allah is the only god, if you believe in god you believe in allah, regardless of whether you acknowlegde allah.

allah is god to you ok
but the reason for this thread is just plain stupid

[ben87]

allah is the only god. you can name god whatever you want, it will still be allah.

[nicolaj]

allah is the only god. you can name god whatever you want, it will still be allah.

I agree, these filthy scum are salivating at the possiblity of war, they represent the lowest form of life. What is so dangerous is that these people think they can self fulfill prophecy, and so they start to act out the stories of the bibel in real life, turning this free society we have into a hellfire.

taken from another thread...you posted on concerning Christians..

you shall know them by their fruits..

[rapunzel]

allah is the only god. you can name god whatever you want, it will still be allah.

Allah is not a name, it's a title. Arabic Christians us the word Allah when speaking of God in Arabic.

[decode reality]

Beautifully said.
Well there are Vipassana retreats quite similar to what you defined :D
It has been some time since we never ever listened to music. A break would perhaps do some good.



Very good definition. Most you hear called Sharia law is man made law to take their local traditions under a religious context. It's double speak 101.

Sharia law is God's law. God doesn't need any dude to implement that law. Truth is truth even and especially without you and me. Similar to what is called "Kader" or in English "Destiny/Fate". It is not some sort of predestination. It is God's laws like when you throw an apple in the air it falls down due to the law of Gravity. Very simple.

We know that language makes it look mysterious when someone says "Shariah" since it sounds like an effect in Street Fighter sort of game. Nothing mysterious about it.

Bless you all. :D

Agreed. Unfortunately, in some cases, we find that 'the law' has been turned into an arbitrary set of rules and regulations that have more to do with their emotions, 'learnt fears and hates', if you like. By that I mean those who refer to music as being 'the devil's' because a book (that might otherwise contain many wise sayings) said so. Then there are those who, for no other reason except to excercise authority and power over a section of the population/community who look up to them, will demonise music and dance completely as evil - without any grounds whatsoever. Perhaps this is because they want to control women's behaviour, to give one example.

In simple terms, if the dogmatic religious people understood that music and religion/spirituality aren't incompatible, perhaps they might even encourage music, meet it halfway rather than shunning out of unfounded fears.

[elirien]

Agreed. Unfortunately, in some cases, we find that 'the law' has been turned into an arbitrary set of rules and regulations that have more to do with their emotions, 'learnt fears and hates', if you like. By that I mean those who refer to music as being 'the devil's' because a book (that might otherwise contain many wise sayings) said so.

Yes, but the book actually doesn't say that as well (quite similar to reality :D). It says something about idle chatter. Those that do idle chatter will see that word as something else, it can be music, 'learnt fears and hates' as you've put it, etc.


Then there are those who, for no other reason except to excercise authority and power over a section of the population/community who look up to them, will demonise music and dance completely as evil - without any grounds whatsoever. Perhaps this is because they want to control women's behaviour, to give one example.

In simple terms, if the dogmatic religious people understood that music and religion/spirituality aren't incompatible, perhaps they might even encourage music, meet it halfway rather than shunning out of unfounded fears.

Beautiful. It is the same in any thing really. One benefits from seeing what it is, quite similar to a stool one hits their foot every other day.

Bless you.

taken from another thread...you posted on concerning Christians..

you shall know them by their fruits..

Bless you nicolaj,

true in a sense but what was referred to by "Christians" is those that don't actually read the bible. One can call someone a "Christian" if you are from Roman descent spiritually and not from God. A Christian is a descriptive term of bodies not of spirit so to speak.

We don't know how you see the late president Bush but it would be benefiting if you'd watch the documentary "Jesus Camp". Those are Christians. Roman Catholics are Christians. "Christian" is a fake identification because it has to go with "I am" or "These are".

Same goes for so called "Muslims". There are no Sunnies and Shiites or "Wahabis" in The Recitation. How can they be called anything then let go being in Islam?

[ben87]

taken from another thread...you posted on concerning Christians..

you shall know them by their fruits..

Your point is? Nobody should celebrate war , muslim or christian or whatever.

"Originally Posted by ben87
I agree, these filthy scum are salivating at the possiblity of war, they represent the lowest form of life. What is so dangerous is that these people think they can self fulfill prophecy, and so they start to act out the stories of the bibel in real life, turning this free society we have into a hellfire. "

I stand by my statement. If you are promoting war, or violence against someone or cheering it on, you are filthy scum , it doesnt matter what religion you are from, it just so happens that you identify with the people i am talking about.

[nicolaj]

Your point is? Nobody should celebrate war , muslim or christian or whatever.

"Originally Posted by ben87
I agree, these filthy scum are salivating at the possiblity of war, they represent the lowest form of life. What is so dangerous is that these people think they can self fulfill prophecy, and so they start to act out the stories of the bibel in real life, turning this free society we have into a hellfire. "

I stand by my statement. If you are promoting war, or violence against someone or cheering it on, you are filthy scum , it doesnt matter what religion you are from, it just so happens that you identify with the people i am talking about.

No I don't celebrate war, your quote mentioned nothing about that..only that Christians are filthy scum. Because Christians point out Gods word is truth.
btw allah and mo would be proud of you. When you come to know the real God..your filthy mouth will cease.

[ben87]

"I stand by my statement. If you are promoting war, or violence against someone or cheering it on, you are filthy scum , it doesnt matter what religion you are from, it just so happens that you identify with the people i am talking about."

i am in direct communion with god, i dont need a priest or church or imam or mosque or quran or bibel or any book that tells me how to think. You believe you know what i know but you don't, you have judged me based on what you believe to be a muslim.

"Originally Posted by ben87
I agree, these filthy scum (nic:i never knew this was code word for christians?)are salivating at the possiblity of war, they represent the lowest form of life. What is so dangerous is that these people think they can self fulfill prophecy, and so they start to act out the stories of the bibel in real life, turning this free society we have into a hellfire."

If you or any of your friends are offended by this, then good you deserve to be. Anybody who fits the description above is a danger to society.

[ben87]

Allah is not a name, it's a title. Arabic Christians us the word Allah when speaking of God in Arabic.

Who has a monopoly on god? christians? muslims? bhuddists? hindu? luciferians???

I know there is only one, Allah.

[snappy]

I know there is only one, Allah.

Do you mean the same Allah as shown here.....
http://www.balaams-ass.com/alhaj/lilchart.gif

[elirien]

Do you mean the same Allah as shown here.....

You know what you said right? :D

"Do you mean the same God as shown here..." :D

[snappy]

You know what you said right? :D

"Do you mean the same God as shown here..." :D

yes, my friend :) subliminal eh?:D

[chainmaker]

Correct me if I am wrong. He probably just meant that Allah is arabic for God. No need to be picky about names.

Weather you call it Allah or God or Sparky they all mean the same.

[taustrike]

fuck allah and fuck the qur'an. i love music, take that away and there would be a fucking jihad alright.

[chainmaker]

fuck allah and fuck the qur'an. i love music, take that away and there would be a fucking jihad alright.
OMG you like music?! You probably clap your hands too, just like a woman. You effeminate man!

[ben87]

fuck allah and fuck the qur'an. i love music, take that away and there would be a fucking jihad alright.

your a real man arent you, hiding behind a screen attacking things that cannot defend themselves, you are pissweak.

[decode reality]

Seems that the discussion is descending into name-calling...:rolleyes:
Wouldn't like to see this thread thrown into the 'sin bin'.

[ben87]

Sorry i am not trying to hijack the thread. I dont like arguing but there are somethings i see worth arguing about.

[decode reality]

Yes, but the book actually doesn't say that as well (quite similar to reality :D). It says something about idle chatter. Those that do idle chatter will see that word as something else, it can be music, 'learnt fears and hates' as you've put it, etc.

Actually Elirien, the phrase I've highlighted just struck me today in a more esoteric way. 'Idle chatter' could be the various verbalised thoughts that pass through our minds. You'll have to remind me of the exact passage in the Qu'ran...we don't call in thoughts, most of the time, they drift in and out of their own volition. Some of these thoughts might be construed as being 'idle chatter' (the self-sabotaging 'chatterbox mind' spoken of by some meditation teachers and even self-help gurus), as they have little positive use, and couldn't be said to be a wise intuition from a more evolved part of ourselves

[snappy]

your a real man arent you, hiding behind a screen attacking things that cannot defend themselves, you are pissweak.


I SAW your original post before you came back and edited it (after having a tantrum in another thread too btw) and i would like to refer you to prophet muhammads decription of a true muslim...from the koran

"muslim is one who does not hurt anyone with his tongue or hand":eek:

Islam teaches many things including manners. The following are just SOME of the characteristics that a true Muslim must have:

1.Care taken when speaking, think before you talk.
2.Be honest at all times.
3.Respect and kindness shown to others
4.A muslim should help others unless they ask for help in forbidden matters.
5.Care should be taken when making promises lest one cannot fulfill them.
6.Be humble and modest.
7.Be truthful at all times
8.Think well of others.
9.Give sincere advice when it is sought by others.
10.Keep promises and be reliable.
11.Control ones anger.
12.Be forgiving
13.Never indulge in slander / back-biting.
14.Be modest. Don’t show off.
15.Refrain from speaking about things that does not concern you
16.Always be patient.
17.Think wisely before doing any action.
18.Defend others when they are absent from slander.
19.Encourage one another in doing good and obeying and Worshipping Allah
20.Be generous/charitable without being extravagant
21.Do not be suspicious of fellow muslims.
22.Don’t be nosey in matters that don’t concern you.
23.Don’t lie.
24.Don’t boast.
25.Don’t be proud and don’t draw attention to ones own good deeds.
26.Don’t speak in loud/rude tones
27.Don’t praise or flatter someone when they are in front of you
28.Don’t ridicule or scoff at others. Treat with respect.
29Be obedient to Allah, offer the 5 prayers and obey the Quran & Sunnah.

These are just SOME of the general qualities of a muslim. Do you have them?

[decode reality]

Sorry i am not trying to hijack the thread. I dont like arguing but there are somethings i see worth arguing about.

I hear what you're saying and aren't trying to stop you from making whatever points you (and Snappy) need to. But it's becoming a personal slanging match with you both. Why not argue within the context of the topic? It's much more interesting to read. :)

[snappy]

Why not argue within the context of the topic? It's much more interesting to read. :)

Decode reality - well I agree with original poster.


Maybe one of the reasons islam discouraged music and musicians is because of their "story telling"? Wouldnt music/musicians have been the way to spread knowledge from one generation to the next before the written word?:D


Wouldnt want the truth coming out would we:D:eek:most people are blind followers of mullahs. Prophet(sw) said near the end the scholar/mulah will be the worst of people.

Prophet(sw) spoke about "There will be in my Community a faction, a people with excellent words and vile deeds. They will read Qur'an, but their faith does not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. They will no more come back to the religion than the arrow will come back to its original course. They are the worst of human beings and the worst of all creation. The one who kills them or is killed by them is blessed. They summon to the book of Allah but they have nothing to do with it. Whoever kills them is closer to Allah than they.

[decode reality]

Decode reality - well I agree with original poster.


Maybe one of the reasons islam discouraged music and musicians is because of their "story telling"? Wouldnt music/musicians have been the way to spread knowledge from one generation to the next before the written word?:D


Wouldnt want the truth coming out would we:D:eek:most people are blind followers of mullahs. Prophet(sw) said near the end the scholar/mulah will be the worst of people.

Prophet(sw) spoke about "There will be in my Community a faction, a people with excellent words and vile deeds. They will read Qur'an, but their faith does not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. They will no more come back to the religion than the arrow will come back to its original course. They are the worst of human beings and the worst of all creation. The one who kills them or is killed by them is blessed. They summon to the book of Allah but they have nothing to do with it. Whoever kills them is closer to Allah than they.

Cheers Snappy, I appreciate your response. The bit I've highlighted is both true and very poetic. My thought on this (which I may have mentioned earlier) is that the extreme anti music agenda in recent times was/is historically linked to the Islamic Revival. But it may go back further, as you point out. It could have been partly a way to suppress alternative thought and especially a way to control women.

It's an interesting and intriguing topic and one that I wish our ultra PC education systems in the UK had the guts to put in the curriculum.

[daseem]

Decode reality - well I agree with original poster.


Maybe one of the reasons islam discouraged music and musicians is because of their "story telling"? Wouldnt music/musicians have been the way to spread knowledge from one generation to the next before the written word?:D


Wouldnt want the truth coming out would we:D:eek:most people are blind followers of mullahs. Prophet(sw) said near the end the scholar/mulah will be the worst of people.

Prophet(sw) spoke about "There will be in my Community a faction, a people with excellent words and vile deeds. They will read Qur'an, but their faith does not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. They will no more come back to the religion than the arrow will come back to its original course. They are the worst of human beings and the worst of all creation. The one who kills them or is killed by them is blessed. They summon to the book of Allah but they have nothing to do with it. Whoever kills them is closer to Allah than they.


I think it is discouraged although I don't think it is disallowed due to time waste, where the same time can be utilised to do good deeds perhaps or self contemplation,basically more constructive things that benefit the self and the larger community. a lot of sufi saints in south east asia used music and poetry to appeal to hindus to come to Islam. Doesn't a lot of hindu prayer take the form of singing/dancing? so it would have appealed and been the right medium.

Your second reference doesn't apply the way you have implied it to mullah/scholars. It refers to a specific faction and I think the general view from what I have read is that it applies to the extremist wahabi sect in Islam, the ruling class in Saudi Arabia could be termed Wahabis but it could be any other sect who dont follow teachings of ISlam from the heart and only outwardly. Generally it applies to hypocrites.

[snappy]

a lot of sufi saints in south east asia used music and poetry to appeal to hindus to come to Islam. Doesn't a lot of hindu prayer take the form of singing/dancing? so it would have appealed and been the right medium.

Hi Daseem

I wouldnt know about hindu prayers;) never been to a hindu temple:D

I was under the belief that sufism is a mystical expression of Islam because it can accommodate local beliefs and customs, which tend toward the mystical? I know there is a lot of similarities between Sufism and hindus and buddists. Maybe you are right that it would have been an appealing medium, i dont know if im honest:o Kind of explains why over time it was discouraged, I mean these hindu/pagan converts to islam would obviously be bringing millenia of oral tradition/culture with them..which more than likely they would sing/dance/make music with stories of their history.. :) just stating the obvious



Your second reference doesn't apply the way you have implied it to mullah/scholars. It refers to a specific faction and I think the general view from what I have read is that it applies to the extremist wahabi sect in Islam, the ruling class in Saudi Arabia could be termed Wahabis but it could be any other sect who dont follow teachings of ISlam from the heart and only outwardly. Generally it applies to hypocrites.

Thank you for this information Daseem.;)


hypocrites like ben?:eek:

[eternal_spirit]

Fact is the hateful verses on Music and Musicians is in the Koran (allah's words) and in the Hadeeths words and deeds of Muhammad.

So proper true Muslims agree with these hateful attitudes on Music/musicians. Otherwise they would be disagreeing with their Prophet and holy book and not be true Muslims.

Are some suggesting that Muhammad was wrong and so is the Koran with their views on music?

If so there must be a lot of other things to disagree with in the Koran and hadeeths.

Fact is it is authentic proper Islam that hates Music and musicians (koran and hadeeth states so)

[eternal_spirit]

Music & Singing

Composed by Mufti Muhammad Ibn Adam, Darul Iftaa, UK


Music and Singing
The case with music and unlawful singing is the same. It has been decisively prohibited in Shariah, as the evidences mentioned further along will illustrate. Yet there are individuals who are not ready to believe that it is unlawful (haram).



Music is a direct ploy of the non-Muslims. One of the main causes for the decline of the Muslims is their involvement in useless entertainment. Today we see that Muslims are involved, and at the forefront perhaps, of many immoralities and evils. The spiritual power which once was the trait of a Muslim is nowhere to be seen. One of the main reasons for this is music and useless entertainment.


Ruling on musical instruments and unlawful singing
In light of the evidences that will be mentioned shortly, the following are unlawful in Shariah:
a) Musical instruments that are exclusively designed for entertainment and dancing, and create charm, pleasure and bliss on their own (even without the singing), such as the drum, violin, guitar, fiddle, flute, lute, mandolin, harmonium, piano, string, etc are all impermissible and unlawful (haram) to use.
There is a consensus of the whole Ummah on this. Since the first century, the Companions (sahaba), their followers (tabi’in), jurists (fuqaha) and the scholars have been generally unanimous on this ruling.
b) Singing that is a cause for a sin is also unlawful with the consensus of all the scholars, such as songs that prevent one from the obligatory (fard & wajib).
c) Any singing that is accompanied by other sins, such as songs that consist of unlawful, immoral, and sexual themes, or it is sang by non-Mahram women, etc will also be unlawful. This ruling is also with the consensus of all the scholars.
Evidences
There are numerous evidences in the Qur’an and Sunnah which support this view. We will attempt to look at a few:
1) Allah Most High says:
“And there are among men, those that purchase idle tales, to mislead (men) from the path of Allah and throw ridicule. For such there will be a humiliating punishment.” (Surah Luqman, V. 6)
The great Companion Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (Allah be pleased with him) states in the explanation of the word “idle tales”:
“By Allah its meaning is music.” (Sunan al-Bayhaqi, 1/223 & authenticated by al-Hakim in his Mustadrak, 2/411)
Imam Ibn Abi Shayba related with his own transmission that he (Ibn Mas’ud) said: “I swear by Him besides Whom there is no God that it refers to singing.” (132/5)
The great Companion and exegete of the Qur’an, Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) states:
“The meaning of the word is music, singing and the like.” (Sunan al-Bayhaqi, 1/221& Musannaf Ibn abi Shayba, 132/5)
He also stated:
“Music and the purchase of female singers.” (Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba, 132/5)
Hasan al-Basri (Allah be pleased with him) said:
“This verse was revealed in relation to singing and musical instruments.” (Tafsir ibn Kathir, 3/442)
The same explanation has also been narrated from Mujahid, Ikrima, Ibrahim Nakha’i, Mak’hul and others (may Allah be pleased with them all).
The above verse of the Qur’an, along with the statements regarding its meaning is clear in the prohibition of music. It also serves as a severe warning for those who are involved in the trade of music in any way, shape or form, as Allah warned them of “Humiliating punishment”.
As for those that say, the verse refers to things that prevent one from the remembrance of Allah and not music, they do not contradict the aforementioned explanation. The interpretation of the verse with “things that prevent one from the remembrance of Allah” is a more general interpretation which includes music and song, as one of the foremost things that stop you from the remembrance of Allah is music. This is the reason why the majority of the exegetes of the Qur’an have interpreted the verse with music only, or with all those acts that prevent one from the truth with music being at the forefront.
2) Allah Most High says whilst describing the attributes of the servants of the Most Compassionate (ibad al-Rahman):
“Those who witness no falsehood, and if they pass by futility, they pass by it with honourable avoidance.” (Surah al-Furqan, V. 72)
Imam Abu Bakr al-Jassas relates from Sayyiduna Imam Abu Hanifah (Allah be pleased with him) that the meaning of “falsehood (zur)” is music & song. (Ahkam al-Qur’an, 3/428)
3) Allah Most High said to Shaytan:
“Lead to destruction those whom you can among them with your (seductive) voice.” (Surah al-Isra, V.64)
One of the great exegete, Mujahid (Allah have mercy on him) interpreted the word “voice (sawt)” by music, singing, dancing and idle things. (Ruh al-Ma’ani, 15/111)
Imam Suyuti (Allah have mercy on him) quoted Mujahid as saying: “Voice (in this verse) is singing and flute.” (al-Iklil fi istinbat al-tanzil, 1444)
Another exegete, Dahhak (Allah have mercy on him) also interpreted the word “Sawt” with flutes. (Qurtubi, al-Jami` li Ahkam al-Qur’an, 10/288)
Here also, a general interpretation can be given, as indeed some commentators of the Qur’an have done, but this, as mentioned earlier, does not contradict the meaning given by Mujahid and Dahhak, as it is included in the more broad and general meaning.

[taustrike]

OMG you like music?! You probably clap your hands too, just like a woman. You effeminate man!
your obiviously a very boring and uninteresting individual if you think liking music makes me effeminate. and i hope your being sarcastic otherwise you can crawl you ass back into the dark ages.

your a real man arent you, hiding behind a screen attacking things that cannot defend themselves, you are pissweak.
who's hiding? and what things cant defend themselfs? obviously your quite a deep and intelligent individual. pardon my sarcasem. religious types are the same, if i think this is bullshit and i say so you get people like these two shitcunts that cant handle an outside opinion. infidel for life muthafucker!

also if anyone gets offended by what i just said i dont give a flying fuck.

[chainmaker]

your obiviously a very boring and uninteresting individual if you think liking music makes me effeminate. and i hope your being sarcastic otherwise you can crawl you ass back into the dark ages.


who's hiding? and what things cant defend themselfs? obviously your quite a deep and intelligent individual. pardon my sarcasem. religious types are the same, if i think this is bullshit and i say so you get people like these two shitcunts that cant handle an outside opinion. infidel for life muthafucker!

also if anyone gets offended by what i just said i dont give a flying fuck.
It was sarcasm.

But, you are obviously a fucking moron if you post only shit like your last two posts.

I am starting to believe you really are an effeminate man, running off your mouth like that. Go clap your hands now. Rofl.

[ben87]

I SAW your original post before you came back and edited it (after having a tantrum in another thread too btw) and i would like to refer you to prophet muhammads decription of a true muslim...from the koran

"muslim is one who does not hurt anyone with his tongue or hand":eek:

Islam teaches many things including manners. The following are just SOME of the characteristics that a true Muslim must have:

1.Care taken when speaking, think before you talk.
2.Be honest at all times.
3.Respect and kindness shown to others
4.A muslim should help others unless they ask for help in forbidden matters.
5.Care should be taken when making promises lest one cannot fulfill them.
6.Be humble and modest.
7.Be truthful at all times
8.Think well of others.
9.Give sincere advice when it is sought by others.
10.Keep promises and be reliable.
11.Control ones anger.
12.Be forgiving
13.Never indulge in slander / back-biting.
14.Be modest. Don’t show off.
15.Refrain from speaking about things that does not concern you
16.Always be patient.
17.Think wisely before doing any action.
18.Defend others when they are absent from slander.
19.Encourage one another in doing good and obeying and Worshipping Allah
20.Be generous/charitable without being extravagant
21.Do not be suspicious of fellow muslims.
22.Don’t be nosey in matters that don’t concern you.
23.Don’t lie.
24.Don’t boast.
25.Don’t be proud and don’t draw attention to ones own good deeds.
26.Don’t speak in loud/rude tones
27.Don’t praise or flatter someone when they are in front of you
28.Don’t ridicule or scoff at others. Treat with respect.
29Be obedient to Allah, offer the 5 prayers and obey the Quran & Sunnah.

These are just SOME of the general qualities of a muslim. Do you have them?

You are still telling me what you think a muslim is. I dont have to conform to your beliefs.

That is what you believe a muslim is, i have my own view.

[ben87]

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/first_muslim.htm

"Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall

This is contradicted by both the Quran and various Islamic traditions which refer to the presence of true believers both before and during Muhammad’s alleged "call" to prophethood. The Quran mentions that Adam, Noah, the Patriarchs, the twelve tribes of Israel, Moses, Jesus etc., were all believers and many of them even messengers who lived a long time before Muhammad:

Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."… And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith. We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."… When learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. S. 2:30, 34-35, 37

We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms. S. 4:163

We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good: S. 6:84

And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing: Our Lord! and make us both submissive (muslimayni) to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting (ommatan muslimatan) to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. And who forsakes the religion of Ibrahim but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous. When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim (aslim), he said: I submit myself (aslamtu) to the Lord of the worlds. And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims (illa waantum muslimoona). Nay! were you witnesses when death visited Yaqoub, when he said to his sons: What will you serve after me? They said: We will serve your God and the God of your fathers, Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq, one God only, and to Him do we submit (wanahnu lahu muslimoona). S. 2:127-133 Shakir".

[snappy]

You are still telling me what you think a muslim is. I dont have to conform to your beliefs.

That is what you believe a muslim is, i have my own view.

What you are disputing I quoted from an education section on an islamic forum. http://www.islamicboard.com/education-issues/21707-manners-true-muslim-quran-sunnah.html take a look for yourself.:eek:

still think it is my infidel opinion?

You my friend are no more muslim than me. I definetly am not a follower of Islam or Muslim.:D

If you think your a muslim then please educate yourself in islam. you are disrespecting every true muslim with your corrupted views.

Also take heed of others advice and lets talk in context of this thread.

[elirien]

Actually Elirien, the phrase I've highlighted just struck me today in a more esoteric way. 'Idle chatter' could be the various verbalised thoughts that pass through our minds. You'll have to remind me of the exact passage in the Qu'ran...we don't call in thoughts, most of the time, they drift in and out of their own volition. Some of these thoughts might be construed as being 'idle chatter' (the self-sabotaging 'chatterbox mind' spoken of by some meditation teachers and even self-help gurus), as they have little positive use, and couldn't be said to be a wise intuition from a more evolved part of ourselves

Ah, beautiful. That's it on one layer.

This is the verse in question. We couldn't find the translation where it said "idle chatter (musical instruments)" directly but this will do:

31:6 (Asad) But among men there is many a one that prefers a mere play with words [to divine guidance], [4] (http://www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/action.lasso.asp?-database=Quran&-Table=tblMasterTranslit&-Response=Sreply1.asp&-Error=SReply1.asp&-MaxRecords=25&-token=Asad,%7C%7C%3Cta%3Etrue%3C/ta%3E%3Ctt%3Etrue%3C/tt%3E%3Cts%3Etrue%3C/ts%3E%3Cdc%3Efalse%3C/dc%3E%3Ctx%3Etrue%3C/tx%3E%3Cal%3Etrue%3C/al%3E&-op=qrange&CV=31:6&-sortorder=Ascend&-sortfield=cv&-Search#) so as to lead [those] without knowledge astray from the path of God, and to turn it to ridicule: for such there is shameful suffering in store.

It is about blabbering stuff one knows nothing about on one layer. In one more layer it talks as you've said about the idle chatter just lying around to be picked up by the mind and if one picks one of them up it will take one to absurd places which will need dissolving/disillusionment. Thinking about yesterdays dinner during devotion/meditation/prayer for a simple example.

As far as our meager experience goes great teachers speak very seldom. A very good habit to have if one is still in search for habits.

[loveisthelaw]

As far as our meager experience goes great teachers speak very seldom. A very good habit to have if one is still in search for habits.

The Prophet of Islam SAWS said that if you have nothing good to say, do not speak. That is because the fastest way to bring evil in to your life is through the tongue.

MY father, who was not Muslim and more of an Occultist (RC / Golden Dawn / Martinism) gave me great advice when I first started reading about Mysticism when I was 18: You have 2 ears and 1 mouth - so you should speak 1/2 as much as you listen.

This was great advice for me and my ego, and it also stands true for anyone aspiring to be a scholar, especially when the majority of their thinking, acting and living life is polar to this.

[decode reality]

Ah, beautiful. That's it on one layer.

This is the verse in question. We couldn't find the translation where it said "idle chatter (musical instruments)" directly but this will do:

31:6 (Asad) But among men there is many a one that prefers a mere play with words [to divine guidance], [4] (http://www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/action.lasso.asp?-database=Quran&-Table=tblMasterTranslit&-Response=Sreply1.asp&-Error=SReply1.asp&-MaxRecords=25&-token=Asad,%7C%7C%3Cta%3Etrue%3C/ta%3E%3Ctt%3Etrue%3C/tt%3E%3Cts%3Etrue%3C/ts%3E%3Cdc%3Efalse%3C/dc%3E%3Ctx%3Etrue%3C/tx%3E%3Cal%3Etrue%3C/al%3E&-op=qrange&CV=31:6&-sortorder=Ascend&-sortfield=cv&-Search#) so as to lead [those] without knowledge astray from the path of God, and to turn it to ridicule: for such there is shameful suffering in store.

It is about blabbering stuff one knows nothing about on one layer. In one more layer it talks as you've said about the idle chatter just lying around to be picked up by the mind and if one picks one of them up it will take one to absurd places which will need dissolving/disillusionment. Thinking about yesterdays dinner during devotion/meditation/prayer for a simple example.

As far as our meager experience goes great teachers speak very seldom. A very good habit to have if one is still in search for habits.

Ain't that the truth. Great stuff - thanks.
For me, I think that 'internet forum addiction' can sometimes work against developing those qualities. :o

[decode reality]

The Prophet of Islam SAWS said that if you have nothing good to say, do not speak. That is because the fastest way to bring evil in to your life is through the tongue.

MY father, who was not Muslim and more of an Occultist (RC / Golden Dawn / Martinism) gave me great advice when I first started reading about Mysticism when I was 18: You have 2 ears and 1 mouth - so you should speak 1/2 as much as you listen.

This was great advice for me and my ego, and it also stands true for anyone aspiring to be a scholar, especially when the majority of their thinking, acting and living life is polar to this.

That has just become my Facebook status (shallow as that sounds) but it's something I'll try to bear in mind in general.

[loveisthelaw]

That has just become my Facebook status (shallow as that sounds) but it's something I'll try to bear in mind in general.

I used to argue with him because I thought I was right, but in hindsight I just did not understand what he was telling me all the time.

So I used to just open my mouth and let what ever emotion was in me come out, without first listening and digesting what he was saying.

It is easy to quickly respond to a statement and not actually read it or listen to it correctly, letting ego and bravado prevail over you - I still fall in to this trap sometimes but certainly far less than I used to.

Glad you enjoy it as much as I do :) it really is wonderful, yet simple advice.

[decode reality]

I used to argue with him because I thought I was right, but in hindsight I just did not understand what he was telling me all the time.

So I used to just open my mouth and let what ever emotion was in me come out, without first listening and digesting what he was saying.

It is easy to quickly respond to a statement and not actually read it or listen to it correctly, letting ego and bravado prevail over you - I still fall in to this trap sometimes but certainly far less than I used to.

Glad you enjoy it as much as I do :) it really is wonderful, yet simple advice.

It's profound advice and it applies to so many situations. We live in a culture where it's all about what you say, verbal skills. There are good sides and downsides to it.

In the context of music, the admonition to 'listen more and play less' is a really important quality for artists to develop. At times, what is apparently less really is more.

[ben87]

What you are disputing I quoted from an education section on an islamic forum. http://www.islamicboard.com/education-issues/21707-manners-true-muslim-quran-sunnah.html take a look for yourself.:eek:

still think it is my infidel opinion?

You my friend are no more muslim than me. I definetly am not a follower of Islam or Muslim.:D

If you think your a muslim then please educate yourself in islam. you are disrespecting every true muslim with your corrupted views.

Also take heed of others advice and lets talk in context of this thread.

You dont know squat.

Moses followers were muslim. You didnt even read my post, if you did you might understand.

I am a true muslim. Nothing you or anybody says can change that.

None of what you said applies,there were muslims 600+ years before muhammed and islam.

If you think your a muslim then please educate yourself in islam. you are disrespecting every true muslim with your corrupted views.

Lets clear this up, so you can stop voicing what the dickhead priests imams rabbis and everyone else says.

"Alternative formsMoslem
[edit] EtymologyFrom Arabic مُسْلِمٌ (múslimun), is the stem IV participle[1] of the triliteral S-L-M "to be whole, intact". A literal translation would be "one who wants or seeks wholeness", where "wholeness" translates إسْلامٌ (islāmun). In a religious sense, Al-Islām translates to "faith, piety", and Muslim to "one who has (religious) faith or piety".

"[edit] Translations[show ▼]believer"

[snappy]

what is your source? without it you are one of those imams that you are babbling on about.

I would like to correct you firstly with muslimwiki:eek:http://muslimwiki.com/mw/index.php/Muslim
A Muslim (Arabic: مسلم, literally: he who submits) is an adherent of Islam. The word stems from the prefix mu- and the noun slim . Which is similar to the English use of suffix submit -er, build -er. The noun 'slim' has as its three root words S-L-M, which are also the three root words of Islam which has an underlying meaning of submission or surrender.

So a Muslim is someone who submitts to Allah, and Islam is the religion of submission to Allah.

secondly - wiki:D Muslim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A Muslim (Arabic: مسلم‎; /ˈmʊslɨm/ MOOS-lim or English pronunciation: /ˈmʌzlɨm/ MUZ-lim) is an adherent of the religion of Islam. Literally, the word means "one who submits (to God)".

Thirdly I know all about moses and he wasnt muslim, if anything he was pagan:D

FINALLY - WTF has this got to do with the subject that WE are all discussing? All this arguing proves is that islam needs a revamp and somebody like the pope as a spokesman...yeah yeah i know pope is a bad example but its late/early :)


bloody troll:eek:

[ben87]

you are the troll. the only reason you are here is because you got your knickers in a twist with my question.

if you didnt get so emotional when asked to back your claims you wouldnt even be here.

still trying to tell me how i should practice my religion? mind your own business.

bye snappy, please dont follow me to the next thread, i am sick to death of religo-facists trying to tell me how to practice my religion.

[snappy]

actually i am here bcos i have an interest in this subject. you are a fool and a bad example of a muslim, may allah forgive you and bless with 74 virgins for your ignorance.

[loveisthelaw]

I am better than you.
No, I am better than you!
How do you know?
Because I know more stuff than you!
No you don't
Yes I do
Prove it
You prove it
I asked first
I asked second

:)

[loveisthelaw]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Enjoy :)

[elirien]

what is your source? without it you are one of those imams that you are babbling on about.

I would like to correct you firstly with muslimwiki:eek:http://muslimwiki.com/mw/index.php/Muslim
A Muslim (Arabic: مسلم, literally: he who submits) is an adherent of Islam. The word stems from the prefix mu- and the noun slim . Which is similar to the English use of suffix submit -er, build -er. The noun 'slim' has as its three root words S-L-M, which are also the three root words of Islam which has an underlying meaning of submission or surrender.

So a Muslim is someone who submitts to Allah, and Islam is the religion of submission to Allah.

secondly - wiki:D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim
A Muslim (Arabic: مسلم‎; /ˈmʊslɨm/ MOOS-lim or English pronunciation: /ˈmʌzlɨm/ MUZ-lim) is an adherent of the religion of Islam. Literally, the word means "one who submits (to God)".

When someone submits to the One can there be a submitter anymore? Can the drop say "I'm not the ocean". A separate submitter is not in submission(slm), it thinks it's still debating.

No need for mystifying things.


FINALLY - WTF has this got to do with the subject that WE are all discussing? All this arguing proves is that islam needs a revamp and somebody like the pope as a spokesman...yeah yeah i know pope is a bad example but its late/early :)


Why?

[snappy]

Lets clear this up, so you can stop voicing what the dickhead priests imams rabbis and everyone else says.


This is why Elirien - everybody has their own interpretation of the koran and everybody thinks they are right.:D

and ben you can go back and edit as many of your posts as you like, you should learn to control your anger

[song of the earth]

Just remember, 'You can't stop the music, nobody can stop the music!' :)

Hoges - Suburban People&#39; - a send up of the &#39;Village People&#39;. (1981) - YouTube

[elirien]

This is why Elirien - everybody has their own interpretation of the koran and everybody thinks they are right.:D

and ben you can go back and edit as many of your posts as you like, you should learn to control your anger

Yes every body thinks that they even have an opinion. Very true.

We like that bike riding example.
When you ride a bike do you have an opinion about that?

[torus]

mystical Islam...

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan - Noor E Khuda Hai Husn (PART 1)! - YouTube

[torus]

I love this guy!

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan - Shamas-ud-doha, Badar-ud-doja! - YouTube


once the groove takes over, I just want to spin!!!

[loveisthelaw]

I don't understand it, but it is nice :)

[torus]

I don't understand it, but it is nice :)

2nd video posted is my all time favourite from Nusrat. I don't understand the language, but I "get it".

[theabbot 7]

Question: Is instrumental music lawful in Islam? Which musical instruments does Islam permit?

Answered by Sheikh Ahmad `Abd al-Latîf, professor at al-Imâm University in Riyadh

Al-Salâm `Alaykum wa Rahmah Allah wa Barakâtuh.

The majority of Muslim scholars prohibit music and musical instruments. It is mentioned in Sahîh al-Bukhâri that Abû Mâlik al-Ash`arî said: “I heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say: “There will be a group of my people who will legalize for themselves adultery, pure silk, intoxicants, and stringed instruments."

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “I was ordered to avoid two foolish and vile sounds; a sound of a musical tunes and Satan’s musical instruments, and cries made on account of a calamity.” [Sunan al-Tirmidhî]

The only exception to this ruling is the duff, a tambourine without bells, which only women are allowed to use among themselves as an accompaniment to their singing at weddings and on other festive occasions. This was permitted by the Prophet (peace be upon him).

http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detail_sect...1&main_cat_id=1

The whole issue of singing is controversial, whether it is with musical accompaniment or not. Some issues succeeded to gain the Muslim scholars’ agreement, while others failed. All scholars have unanimous view on the prohibition of all forms of singing and music that incites debauchery, indecency, or sin. As for musical instruments, given the weakness of the evidence indicating that they are forbidden, the rule to be applied here is the one states that all things are originally deemed permissible as long as there is no Shari`ah text that prohibits them.

Singing is no more than melodious words; if these are good, singing is considered good; but if they are bad, such singing is deemed bad. Talk that contains forbidden content is prohibited. What if that talk is accompanied with rhythm and melody?

Scholars agree on the permissibility of singing without instrumental accompaniment and where the content is not prohibited. This sort of singing is allowed only in certain occasions such as: weddings, feasts, welcoming a traveler, and the like. This is based on the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) that states: “He (peace and blessings be upon him) asked, ‘Have you given the girl (i.e., the bride) anything as a present?’ They (the attendants) replied, ‘Yes.’ He asked, 'Did you send a singer along with her?' 'No', said `A'ishah. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) then said, 'The Ansar are a people who love poetry. You should have sent along someone who would sing: Here we come, to you we come, greet us as we greet you.'" In this case, we can say that a woman can sing only in front of women and her non-marriageable male kin.

In the subject of musical instruments, scholars disagree on the matter. Some of them permit all sorts of singing, be it accompanied with musical instruments or not, and even consider it recommended. A second group of scholars permit singing only when is not accompanied with a musical instrument. A third group declare it to be prohibited whether it be accompanied with a musical instrument or not; they even consider it as a major sin. In supporting their view, they cite the hadith narrated by Imam Al-Bukhari on the authority of Abu Malik or Abu `Amir Al-Ash`ari (doubt from the sub-narrator) that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, 'From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk (clothes), the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful.' Although this hadith is in Sahih Al-Bukhari, its chain of transmission is not connected to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and this invalidates its authenticity. Ibn Hazm rejects it for that very reason. Moreover, the sub-narrator, Hisham Ibn `Ammar is declared ‘weak’ by many scholars of the Science of Hadith Methodology.


esides, this hadith does not clearly prohibit the use of musical instruments, for the phrase 'consider as lawful,' according to Ibn Al-`Arabi, has two distinct meanings:

First: Such people think all these (the things mentioned) are lawful.

Second: They exceed the proper limits that should be observed in using these instruments. If the first meaning is intended, such people would be thus disbelievers.

In fact, the hadith in hand dispraises the manners of a group of people who indulge themselves in luxuries, drinking alcohol and listening to music. Therefore, Ibn Majah narrates this hadith from Abu Malik Al-Ash`ari in the following wording: "From among my followers there will be some people who will drink wine, giving it other names while they listen to musical instruments and the singing of female singers; Allah the Almighty will make the earth swallow them and will turn them into monkeys and pigs.” (Reported by Ibn Hibban in his Sahih)

Conclusion on Permissibility of Musical Instruments

In the light of the above, it is clear that the religious texts that stand as a basis for those who maintain that singing is haram are either ambiguous or inauthentic. None of the hadiths attributed to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is valid as evidence on the judgment of prohibition. Moreover, all these hadiths are declared ‘weak’ by the followers of Ibn Hazm, Malik, Ibn Hanbal, and Ash-Shafi`i.

In his book, Al-Ahkam, Al-Qadi Abu Bakr Ibn Al-`Arabi says, “None of the hadiths maintaining that singing is prohibited are considered authentic (by the scholars of the Science of Hadith Methodology).” The same view is maintained by Al-Ghazali and Ibn An-Nahwi in Al-`Umdah. Ibn Tahir says, “Not even a single letter from all these Hadiths was proved to be authentic.”

Ibn Hazm says, “All the hadiths narrated in this respect were invented and falsified.”

Proofs of Those Who Maintain that Singing is Halal:

First: The Textual Proofs:

They base their argument on some authentic hadiths of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). One of these hadiths is the following:

`A'ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: “Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him, came to my house while two girls were singing beside me the songs of Bu`ath (a story about the pre-Islamic war between the two tribes of the Ansar, the Khazraj and the Awus). The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) laid down and turned his face to the other side. Then Abu Bakr came and spoke to me harshly saying, ‘Musical instruments of Satan near the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)?’ Thereupon, Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) turned his face towards him and said, ‘Leave them.’ When Abu Bakr became inattentive, I signaled to those girls to go out and they left.” (Reported by Al-Bukhari)

This indicates that these two girls were not so young as claimed by some scholars. If they were, Abu Bakr would not have been angry with them in such manner. In addition, in this hadith, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) wanted to teach the Jews that Islam has room for merriment and that he himself was sent with a moderate and flexible legislation. There is also another important lesson to learn here. It draws our attention to the fact that one needs to introduce Islam to others in a good fashion, along with displaying its moderateness and magnanimity.

Moreover, we can also cite as corroborating this Allah’s words that read, “But when they spy some merchandise or pastime they break away to it and leave thee standing. Say: That which Allah hath is better than pastime and than merchandise, and Allah is the best of providers.” (Al-Jumu`ah: 11)

In this verse, Allah Almighty joins pastime with merchandise. He does not dispraise any of them, He just only rebuked the Companions who left Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone giving the khutbah (Friday Sermon), when they all rushed to attend to the caravan and beating of the drums celebrating its arrival.

Second: In Respect of Islam’s Spirit and Basics:

It is a fact that Allah had prohibited for the Children of Israel some of the good things of this worldly life as a punishment for their misdeeds.

He says, “Because of the wrongdoing of the Jews, We forbade them good things which were (before) made lawful unto them, and because of their much hindering from Allah's way. And of their taking usury when they were forbidden it, and of their devouring people's wealth by false pretences. We have prepared for those of them who disbelieve a painful doom.” (An-Nisa’: 160-161)

Before sending Prophet Muhammad, He Almighty referred to him in the earlier scriptures as, “Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul.” (Al-A`raf: 157)

Thus, Islam left nothing good or sound but declared it to be halal (lawful). This is a sign of mercy to this Ummah (nation or community), moving along the line of its comprehensive and eternal message. Allah Almighty says, “They ask you (O Muhammad) what is made lawful for them. Say: (all) good things are made lawful for you.” (Al-Ma’idah: 4)

If we are to delve deeply into this matter, we will find that love for singing and melodic voices are almost a human instinct. We can observe an infant lying in his cradle soothed and sleeping by the sound of a lullaby. Mothers and nannies are always in the habit of singing for babies and children. Moreover, birds and animals respond to nice voices and rhythmic melodies.

Thereupon, if singing is thus a human instinct, it is not for Islam to defy humankind’s instincts. Islam came to refine and promote the human instinct. Ibn Taymyiah says, “Prophets were sent to polish and discipline man’s instinct and not to change or modify it.” This is pursuant to the hadith that reads, “When Allah’s Messenger came to Madinah, he found them (i.e., the people of Madinah) celebrating two days. He said, ‘What are these days?’ They replied, ‘We used to rejoice in these days during the pre-Islamic era.’ He (peace and blessings be upon him) said, ‘Verily, Allah Almighty has given you two alternative days which are much better: these are Al-Adha and Al-Fitr days (`Eids).’” (Reported by Ahmad, Abu Dawud and An-Nasa’i)

Moreover, if singing is to be considered rejoicing and play, these are not haram; this is in pursuant to the famous idea that man needs some time to relax a bit and rejoice. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said to Hanzalah who thought himself to be a hypocrite for his attendance to his wife and children and the change that affected him when he was apart from Allah’s Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), “O Hanzalah! Part of your time should be devoted (to the worldly affairs) and part of time (should be devoted to prayer and meditation).” (Reported by Muslim)

`Ali Ibn Abu Talib says, “Amuse yourselves for some time, for if hearts are exposed to too much strain, they turn blind.”

Abu Ad-Darda’ said, “I refresh myself with some amusement in order to make myself stronger on the path of right.”

Imam Al-Ghazali answered someone who asked him: “Isn't singing some kind of play and rejoice?” He said, “Yes. But, all that exists in this present life is mere play and rejoice. All that takes place between a husband and his wife is play, except sexual intercourse that is the direct cause of reproducing children. This has been reported from Allah’s Messenger and his honorable Companions.”

In fact, leisure time is refreshing to the heart and alleviates its tensions at the same time. Excessive strain and efforts render the heart bored and blind. Amusing the self refreshes and renews its strength and vigor. One who continuously works hard at something should take a break for a while in order to restore and regain his energy and firm will lest he totally collapses in future. When one takes a break, he thus restores his strength and vigor. Only Prophets can stand absolute seriousness. Having leisure time is a form of treatment for diseases of the self, weariness and boredom. But, leisure should not be excessive. This will go against the whole issue of rejoicing hearts to make them able to go on.




One who is familiar with and experienced in the nature of the human heart and self knows for certain that recreation and relaxation are necessary treatments for one’s well-being.

These proofs on the permissibility of singing are extracted from the texts and rules of Islam, and these are sufficient to clarify the issue.

In addition to this, the people of Madinah, who were very pious and God-fearing, the Zahiriyyah, who were very literal regarding the textual proofs, and the Sufis, who were very strict and rigid, were all quoted to have declared the permissibility of singing.

Imam Ash-Shawkani says in his book “Nayl Al-Awtar”, “The people of Madinah and those who agreed with them from among the Zahiriyyah and the Sufis maintain that singing is permissible, even when it is accompanied by a musical instrument such as the lute or the flute. Abu Mansur Al-Bughdadi Ash-Shafi`i narrate that `Abdullah Ibn Ja`far saw nothing wrong in singing, and he, himself, used to compose the music for his own slaves who used to sing these melodies in his presence. This took place during the time of Commander of the Faithful, `Ali Ibn Abi Talib. Abu Ja`far Al-Bughdadi narrates the same after Al-Qadi Shurayh, Sa`id Ibn Al-Musaiyb, `Ata’ Ibn Abu Rabah, Az-Zuhri and Ash-Shi`bi.”

Ar-Ruwaiyani narrates on the authority of Al-Qaffal that Malik Ibn Anas maintained that singing with musical instruments is permissible. Also, Abu Mansur Al-Furani quotes Malik as maintaining that playing the flute is permissible.

Abu Al-Fadl Ibn Tahir narrates, “The people of Madinah never disputed over the permissibility of playing the lute.”

Ibn An-Nahwi narrates in his “Al-`Umdah”: “Ibn Tahir said, ‘The people of Madinah showed consensus over this (issue). Also, all the Zahiriyyah maintained the same.'”

Al-Mawardi attributes the permissibility of playing the lute to some of the Shafi`i followers and students. This has been narrated also by Abu Al-Fadl Ibn Tahir after Abu Ishaq Ash-Shirazi; and it is narrated by Al-Isnawi after Ar-Ruwaiyani and Al-Mawardi. Again, this is narrated by Al-Adfuwi after Sheikh `Izz Ad-Deen Ibn `Abd As-Salam. It is also narrated after Abu Bakr Ibn Al-`Arabi.


All these scholars consider singing that is accompanied by musical instruments permissible, but as for singing that is not accompanied by musical instruments, Al-Adfuwi says, “In some of his jurisprudence-related books, Al-Ghazali narrates the consensus of the scholars on its permissibility." Also, Ibn Tahir narrates the consensus of the Prophet’s Companions and those who succeeded them on this very topic. Ibn An-Nahwi states in Al-`Umdah that singing and listening was deemed permissible by a group of the Companions and the Followers.

Conditions and Terms:

There are some conditions and terms that should be observed regarding listening to singing, as follows:

1. Not all sorts of singing are permissible. Rather, the permissible song should comply with the Islamic teachings and ethics. Therefore, the songs praising the tyrants and corrupt rulers disagree with Islamic teachings. In fact, Islam stands against transgressors and their allies, and those who show indifference to their transgression. So, the same goes for those songs that imply giving praises to such attitude!

2. Also, the way the song is performed weighs so much. The theme of the song may be good, but the performance of the singer – through intending excitement and arousing others’ lusts and desires along with trying to seduce them – may move it to the area of prohibition, suspicion or even detest. The Glorious Qur’an addresses the wives of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) saying, “O you wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease aspire (to you), but utter customary speech." (Al-Ahzab: 32) So, one has to show caution to music when there is softness of speech accompanied with rhyme, melody, and special effects!

3. Singing should not be accompanied with something that is prohibited such as alcohol, nakedness, mixing of men with women that is common in pubs and nightclubs, etc.

4. Islam has declared excessiveness as prohibited in everything. The same goes for excessiveness in leisure and recreation even though these things are permissible ! This indicates that the emptiness of the mind and heart has to be observed and tackled during man’s short-term life. One should know that Allah Almighty will ask every one about his life and his youth in particular.

There are some things in which one is to be his own judge and Mufti. If there is some kind of singing that arouses his own lust or desire, and takes him away from the real life, he should avoid it then and block that very gate from which the winds of trial and seduction may come and erase his religion, morals and heart. If he does this, he will live in peace and tranquility.


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Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid on music

Praise be to Allaah.

Ma’aazif is the plural of mi’zafah, and refers to musical instruments (Fath al-Baari, 10/55), instruments which are played (al-Majmoo’, 11/577). Al-Qurtubi (may Allaah have mercy on him) narrated from al-Jawhari (may Allaah have mercy on him) that ma’aazif means singing. In his Sihaah it says that it means musical instruments. It was also said that it refers to the sound of the instruments. In al-Hawaashi by al-Dimyaati (may Allaah have mercy on him) it says: ma’aazif means drums (dufoof, sing. daff) and other instruments which are struck or beaten (Fath al-Baari, 10/55).

Evidence of prohibition in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:

Allaah says in Soorat Luqmaan (interpretation of the meaning):

“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6]

The scholar of the ummah, Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: this means singing. Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this means playing the drum (tabl). (Tafseer al-Tabari, 21/40).

Al-Hasan al-Basri (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this aayah was revealed concerning singing and musical instruments (lit. woodwind instruments). (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/451).

Al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this includes all manner of haraam speech, all idle talk and falsehood, and all nonsense that encourages kufr and disobedience; the words of those who say things to refute the truth and argue in support of falsehood to defeat the truth; and backbiting, slander, lies, insults and curses; the singing and musical instruments of the Shaytaan; and musical instruments which are of no spiritual or worldly benefit. (Tafseer al-Sa’di, 6/150)

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The interpretation of the Sahaabah and Taabi’in, that ‘idle talk’ refers to singing, is sufficient. This was reported with saheeh isnaads from Ibn ‘Abbaas and Ibn Mas’ood. Abu’l-Sahbaa’ said: I asked Ibn Mas’ood about the aayah (interpretation of the meaning), ‘“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks’ [Luqmaan 31:6]. He said: By Allaah, besides Whom there is no other god, this means singing – and he repeated it three times. It was also reported with a saheeh isnaad from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them both) that this means singing. There is no contradiction between the interpretation of “idle talk” as meaning singing and the interpretation of it as meaning stories of the Persians and their kings, and the kings of the Romans, and so on, such as al-Nadr ibn al-Haarith used to tell to the people of Makkah to distract them from the Qur’aan. Both of them are idle talk. Hence Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “Idle talk” is falsehood and singing. Some of the Sahaabah said one and some said the other, and some said both. Singing is worse and more harmful than stories of kings, because it leads to zinaa and makes hypocrisy grow (in the heart); it is the trap of the Shaytaan, and it clouds the mind. The way in which it blocks people from the Qur’aan is worse than the way in which other kinds of false talk block them, because people are naturally inclined towards it and tend to want to listen to it. The aayaat condemn replacing the Qur’aan with idle talk in order to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah without knowledge and taking it as a joke, because when an aayah of the Qur’aan is recited to such a person, he turns his back as if he heard them not, as if there were deafness in his ear. If he hears anything of it, he makes fun of it. All of this happens only in the case of the people who are most stubbornly kaafirs and if some of it happens to singers and those who listen to them, they both have a share of this blame. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/258-259).

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“[Allaah said to Iblees:] And befool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice (i.e. songs, music, and any other call for Allaah’s disobedience)…” [al-Israa’ 17:64]

It was narrated that Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “And befool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice” – his voice [the voice of Iblees/Shaytaan] is singing and falsehood. Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This idaafah [possessive or genitive construction, i.e., your voice] serves to make the meaning specific, as with the phrases [translated as] “your cavalry” and “your infantry” [later in the same aayah]. Everyone who speaks in any way that is not obedient to Allaah, everyone who blows into a flute or other woodwind instrument, or who plays any haraam kind of drum, this is the voice of the Shaytaan. Everyone who walks to commit some act of disobedience towards Allaah is part of his [the Shaytaan’s] infantry, and anyone who rides to commit sin is part of his cavalry. This is the view of the Salaf, as Ibn ‘Abi Haatim narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas: his infantry is everyone who walks to disobey Allaah. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan).

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do you then wonder at this recitation (the Qur’aan)?

And you laugh at it and weep not,

Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)”

[al-Najm 53:59-61]

‘Ikrimah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: it was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that al-sumood [verbal noun from saamidoon, translated here as “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)”] means “singing”, in the dialect of Himyar; it might be said “Ismidi lanaa” [‘sing for us’ – from the same root as saamidoon/sumood] meaning “ghaniy” [sing]. And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him): When they [the kuffaar] heard the Qur’aan, they would sing, then this aayah was revealed.


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Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning) “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)” – Sufyaan al-Thawri said, narrating from his father from Ibn ‘Abbaas: (this means) singing. This is Yemeni (dialect): ismad lana means ghan lana [sing to us]. This was also the view of ‘Ikrimah. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer).

It was reported from Abu Umaamah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not sell singing slave women, do not buy them and do not teach them. There is nothing good in this trade, and their price is haraam. Concerning such things as this the aayah was revealed (interpretation of the meaning): ‘And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…’ [Luqmaan 31:6].” (Hasan hadeeth)

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari ta’leeqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsool by al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This is a saheeh hadeeth narrated by al-Bukhaari in his Saheeh, where he quoted it as evidence and stated that it is mu’allaq and majzoom. He said: Chapter on what was narrated concerning those who permit alcohol and call it by another name.

This hadeeth indicates in two ways that musical instruments and enjoyment of listening to music are haraam. The first is the fact that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “[they] permit” which clearly indicates that the things mentioned, including musical instruments, are haraam according to sharee’ah, but those people will permit them. The second is the fact that musical instruments are mentioned alongside things which are definitely known to be haraam, i.e., zinaa and alcohol: if they (musical instruments) were not haraam, why would they be mentioned alongside these things? (adapted from al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 1/140-141)

Shaykh al-Islam (Ibn Taymiyah) (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This hadeeth indicates that ma’aazif are haraam, and ma’aazif means musical instruments according to the scholars of (Arabic) language. This word includes all such instruments. (al-Majmoo’, 11/535).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: And concerning the same topic similar comments were narrated from Sahl ibn Sa’d al-Saa’idi, ‘Imraan ibn Husayn, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas, Abu Hurayrah, Abu Umaamah al-Baahili, ‘Aa’ishah Umm al-Mu’mineen, ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib, Anas ibn Maalik, ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Saabit and al-Ghaazi ibn Rabee’ah. Then he mentioned it in Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, and it indicates that they (musical instruments) are haraam.

It was narrated that Naafi’ (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Ibn ‘Umar heard a woodwind instrument, and he put his fingers in his ears and kept away from that path. He said to me, O Naafi’, can you hear anything? I said, No. So he took his fingers away from his ears and said: I was with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he heard something like this, and he did the same thing. (Saheeh Abi Dawood). Some insignificant person said that this hadeeth does not prove that musical instruments are haraam, because if that were so, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would have instructed Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them both) to put his fingers in his ears as well, and Ibn ‘Umar would have instructed Naafi’ to do likewise! The response to this is: He was not listening to it, but he could hear it. There is a difference between listening and hearing. Shaykh al-Islam (Ibn Taymiyah) (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Concerning (music) which a person does not intend to listen to, there is no prohibition or blame, according to scholarly consensus. Hence blame or praise is connected to listening, not to hearing. The one who listens to the Qur’aan will be rewarded for it, whereas the one who hears it without intending or wanting to will not be rewarded for that, because actions are judged by intentions. The same applies to musical instruments which are forbidden: if a person hears them without intending to, that does not matter. (al-Majmoo’, 10/78).

Ibn Qudaamah al-Maqdisi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: the listener is the one who intends to hear, which was not the case with Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them both); what happened in his case was hearing. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) needed to know when the sound stopped because he had moved away from that path and blocked his ears. So he did not want to go back to that path or unblock his ears until the noise had stopped, so when he allowed Ibn ‘Umar to continue hearing it, this was because of necessity. (al-Mughni, 10/173)

(Even though the hearing referred to in the comments of the two imaams is makrooh, it was permitted because of necessity, as we will see below in the comments of Imaam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him). And Allaah knows best).

The views of the scholars (imaams) of Islam

Al-Qaasim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Singing is part of falsehood. Al-Hasan (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: if there is music involved in a dinner invitation (waleemah), do not accept the invitation (al-Jaami by al-Qayrawaani, p. 262-263).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The view of the four Imaams is that all kinds of musical instruments are haraam. It was reported in Saheeh al-Bukhaari and elsewhere that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said that there would be among his ummah those who would allow zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments, and he said that they would be transformed into monkeys and pigs… None of the followers of the imaams mentioned any dispute concerning the matter of music. (al-Majmoo’, 11/576).

Al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The four madhhabs are agreed that all musical instruments are haraam. (al-Saheehah, 1/145).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The madhhab of Abu Haneefah is the strictest in this regard, and his comments are among the harshest. His companions clearly stated that it is haraam to listen to all musical instruments such as the flute and the drum, even tapping a stick. They stated that it is a sin which implies that a person is a faasiq (rebellious evil doer) whose testimony should be rejected. They went further than that and said that listening to music is fisq (rebellion, evildoing) and enjoying it is kufr (disbelief). This is their words. They narrated in support of that a hadeeth which could not be attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). They said: he should try not to hear it if he passes by it or it is in his vicinity. Abu Yoosuf said, concerning a house from which could be heard the sound of musical instruments: Go in without their permission, because forbidding evil actions is obligatory, and if it were not allowed to enter without permission, people could not have fulfilled the obligatory duty (of enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil). (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/425).

Imaam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about playing the drum or flute, if a person happens to hear the sound and enjoy it whilst he is walking or sitting. He said: He should get up if he finds that he enjoys it, unless he is sitting down for a need or is unable to get up. If he is on the road, he should either go back or move on. (al-Jaami’ by al-Qayrawaani, 262). He (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The only people who do things like that, in our view, are faasiqs.” (Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 14/55).


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Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Among the types of earnings which are haraam by scholarly consensus are ribaa, the fee of a prostitute, anything forbidden, bribes, payment for wailing over the dead and singing, payments to fortune-tellers and those who claim to know the unseen and astrologers, payments for playing flutes, and all kinds of gambling. (al-Kaafi).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, explaining the view of Imaam al-Shaafa'i: His companions who know his madhhab (point of view) stated that it is haraam and denounced those who said that he permitted it. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/425).

The author of Kifaayat al-Akhbaar, who was one of the Shaafa’is, counted musical instruments such as flutes and others, as being munkar (evil), and the one who is present (where they are being played) should denounce them. (He cannot be excused by the fact that there are bad scholars, because they are corrupting the sharee’ah, or evil faqeers – meaning the Sufis, because they call themselves fuqaraa’ or faqeers – because they are ignorant and follow anyone who makes noise; they are not guided by the light of knowledge; rather they are blown about by every wind. (Kifaayat al-Akhbaar, 2/128).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: With regard to the view of Imaam Ahmad, his son ‘Abd-Allaah said: I asked my father about singing. He said: Singing makes hypocrisy grow in the heart; I do not like it. Then he mentioned the words of Maalik: the evildoers (faasiqs) among us do that. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan).

Ibn Qudaamah, the researcher of the Hanbali madhhab – (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Musical instruments are of three types which are haraam. These are the strings and all kinds of flute, and the lute, drum and rabaab (stringed instrument) and so on. Whoever persists in listening to them, his testimony should be rejected. (al-Mughni, 10/173). And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him); If a person is invited to a gathering in which there is something objectionable, such as wine and musical instruments, and he is able to denounce it, then he should attend and speak out against it, because then he will be combining two obligatory duties. If he is not able to do that, then he should not attend. (al-Kaafi, 3/118)


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Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Among the types of earnings which are haraam by scholarly consensus are ribaa, the fee of a prostitute, anything forbidden, bribes, payment for wailing over the dead and singing, payments to fortune-tellers and those who claim to know the unseen and astrologers, payments for playing flutes, and all kinds of gambling. (al-Kaafi).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, explaining the view of Imaam al-Shaafa'i: His companions who know his madhhab (point of view) stated that it is haraam and denounced those who said that he permitted it. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/425).

The author of Kifaayat al-Akhbaar, who was one of the Shaafa’is, counted musical instruments such as flutes and others, as being munkar (evil), and the one who is present (where they are being played) should denounce them. (He cannot be excused by the fact that there are bad scholars, because they are corrupting the sharee’ah, or evil faqeers – meaning the Sufis, because they call themselves fuqaraa’ or faqeers – because they are ignorant and follow anyone who makes noise; they are not guided by the light of knowledge; rather they are blown about by every wind. (Kifaayat al-Akhbaar, 2/128).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: With regard to the view of Imaam Ahmad, his son ‘Abd-Allaah said: I asked my father about singing. He said: Singing makes hypocrisy grow in the heart; I do not like it. Then he mentioned the words of Maalik: the evildoers (faasiqs) among us do that. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan).

Ibn Qudaamah, the researcher of the Hanbali madhhab – (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Musical instruments are of three types which are haraam. These are the strings and all kinds of flute, and the lute, drum and rabaab (stringed instrument) and so on. Whoever persists in listening to them, his testimony should be rejected. (al-Mughni, 10/173). And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him); If a person is invited to a gathering in which there is something objectionable, such as wine and musical instruments, and he is able to denounce it, then he should attend and speak out against it, because then he will be combining two obligatory duties. If he is not able to do that, then he should not attend. (al-Kaafi, 3/118)

Ibn Abi Shaybah (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported that a man broke a mandolin belonging to another man, and the latter took his case to Shurayh. But Shurayh did not award him any compensation – i.e., he did not make the first man pay the cost of the mandolin, because it was haraam and had no value. (al-Musannaf, 5/395).

Al-Baghawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) stated in a fatwa that it is haraam to sell all kinds of musical instruments such as mandolins, flutes, etc. Then he said: If the images are erased and the musical instruments are altered, then it is permissible to sell their parts, whether they are silver, iron, wood or whatever. (Sharh al-Sunnah, 8/28)

[theabbot 7]

An appropriate exception

The exception to the above is the daff – without any rings (i.e., a hand-drum which looks like a tambourine, but without any rattles) – when used by women on Eids and at weddings. This is indicated by saheeh reports. Shaykh al-Islam (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: But the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made allowances for certain types of musical instruments at weddings and the like, and he made allowances for women to play the daff at weddings and on other joyful occasions. But the men at his time did not play the daff or clap with their hands. It was narrated in al-Saheeh that he said: “Clapping is for women and tasbeeh (saying Subhaan Allaah) is for men.” And he cursed women who imitate men and men who imitate women. Because singing and playing the daff are things that women do, the Salaf used to call any man who did that a mukhannath (effeminate man), and they used to call male singers effeminate – and how many of them there are nowadays! It is well known that the Salaf said this.


In a similar vein is the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), when her father (may Allaah be pleased with him) entered upon her at the time of Eid, and there were two young girls with her who were singing the verses that the Ansaar had said on the day of Bu’aath – and any sensible person will know what people say about war. Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “Musical instruments of the Shaytaan in the house of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)!” The Messenger of Allaah had turned away from them and was facing the wall – hence some scholars said that Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) would not tell anybody off in front of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but he thought that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was not paying attention to what was happening. And Allaah knows best. He (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) said: “Leave them alone, O Abu Bakr, for every nation has its Eid, and this is our Eid, the people of Islam.” This hadeeth shows that it was not the habit of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his companions to gather to listen to singing, hence Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq called it “the musical instruments of the Shaytaan”. And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) approved of this appellation and did not deny it when he said, “Leave them alone, for every nation has its Eid and this is our Eid.” This indicates that the reason why this was permitted was because it was the time of Eid, and the prohibition remained in effect at times other than Eid, apart from the exceptions made for weddings in other ahaadeeth. Shaykh al-Albaani explained this in his valuable book Tahreem Aalaat al-Tarab (the Prohibition of Musical Instruments). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) approved of young girls singing at Eid, as stated in the hadeeth: “So that the mushrikeen will know that in our religion there is room for relaxation.” There is no indication in the hadeeth about the two young girls that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was listening to them. The commands and prohibitions have to do with listening, not merely hearing, just as in the case of seeing, the rules have to do with intentionally looking and not what happens by accident. So it is clear that this is for women only. Imaam Abu ‘Ubayd (may Allaah have mercy on him) defined the daff as “that which is played by women.” (Ghareeb al-Hadeeth, 3/64).


An inappropriate exception
Some of them make an exception for drums at times of war, and consequentially some modern scholars have said that military music is allowed. But there is no basis for this at all, for a number of reasons, the first of which is that this is making an exception with no clear evidence, apart from mere opinion and thinking that it is good, and this is wrong. The second reason is that what the Muslims should do at times of war is to turn their hearts towards their Lord. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“They ask you (O Muhammad) about the spoils of war. Say: ‘The spoils are for Allaah and the Messenger.’ So fear Allaah and adjust all matters of difference among you…” [al-Anfaal 8:1]. But using music is the opposite of this idea of taqwa and it would distract them from remembering their Lord. Thirdly, using music is one of the customs of the kuffaar, and it is not permitted to imitate them, especially with regard to something that Allaah has forbidden to us in general, such as music. (al-Saheehah, 1/145)

“No people go astray after having been guided except they developed arguments amongst themselves.” (Saheeh)

Some of them used the hadeeth about the Abyssinians playing in the mosque of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as evidence that singing is allowed! Al-Bukhaari included this hadeeth in his Saheeh under the heading Baab al-Hiraab wa’l-Daraq Yawm al-‘Eid (Chapter on Spears and Shields on the Day of Eid). Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This indicates that it is permissible to play with weapons and the like in the mosque, and he applied that to other activities connected with jihaad. (Sharh Muslim). But as al-Haafiz ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: whoever speaks about something which is not his profession will come up with weird ideas such as these.


Some of them use as evidence the hadeeth about the singing of the two young girls, which we have discussed above, but we will quote what Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, because it is valuable:

I am amazed that you quote as evidence for allowing listening to sophisticated songs the report which we mentioned about how two young girls who were below the age of puberty sang to a young woman on the day of Eid some verses of Arab poetry about bravery in war and other noble characteristics. How can you compare this to that? What is strange is that this hadeeth is one of the strongest proofs against them. The greatest speaker of the truth [Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq] called them musical instruments of the Shaytaan, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) approved of that appellation, but he made an exception in the case of these two young girls who had not yet reached the age of responsibility and the words of whose songs could not corrupt anyone who listened to them. Can this be used as evidence to allow what you do and what you know of listening (to music) which includes (bad) things which are not hidden?! Subhaan Allaah! How people can be led astray! (Madaarij al-Saalikeen, 1/493).

Ibn al-Jawzi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) was young at that time; nothing was transmitted from her after she reached the age of puberty except condemnation of singing. Her brother’s son, al-Qaasim ibn Muhammad, condemned singing and said that it was not allowed to listen to it, and he took his knowledge from her. (Talbees Iblees, 229). Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: A group of the Sufis used this hadeeth – the hadeeth about the two young girls – as evidence that singing is allowed and it is allowed to listen to it, whether it is accompanied by instruments or not. This view is sufficiently refuted by the clear statement of ‘Aa’ishah in the following hadeeth, where she says, “They were not singers.” She made it clear that they were not singers as such, although this may be understood from the wording of the report. So we should limit it to what was narrated in the text as regards the occasion and the manner, so as to reduce the risk of going against the principle, i.e., the hadeeth. And Allaah knows best. (Fath al-Baari, 2/442-443).

Some people even have the nerve to suggest that the Sahaabah and Taabi’een listened to singing, and that they saw nothing wrong with it!


Al-Fawzaan (may Allaah preserve him) said: We demand them to show us saheeh isnaads going back to these Sahaabah and Taabi’een, proving what they attribute to them. Then he said: Imaam Muslim mentioned in his introduction to his Saheeh that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Mubaarak said: The isnaad is part of religion. Were it not for the isnaad, whoever wanted to could say whatever he wanted to.

Some of them said that the ahaadeeth which forbid music are full of faults. No hadeeth was free of being criticized by some of the scholars. Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The ahaadeeth which were narrated concerning music being haraam are not full of faults as has been claimed. Some of them are in Saheeh al-Bukhaari which is the soundest of books after the Book of Allaah, and some of them are hasan and some are da’eef. But because they are so many, with different isnaads, they constitute definitive proof that singing and musical instruments are haraam.

All the imaams agreed on the soundness of the ahaadeeth which forbid singing and musical instruments, apart from Abu Haamid al-Ghazzaali, but al-Ghazzaali did not have knowledge of hadeeth; and Ibn Hazam, but al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) explained where Ibn Hazam went wrong, and Ibn Hazam himself said that if any of (these ahaadeeth) were saheeh, he would follow that. But now they have proof that these reports are saheeh because there are so many books by the scholars which state that these ahaadeeth are saheeh, but they turn their backs on that. They are far more extreme than Ibn Hazam and they are nothing like him, for they are not qualified and cannot be referred to.

Some of them said that the scholars forbade singing because it is mentioned alongside gatherings in which alcohol is drunk and where people stay up late at night for evil purposes.



Al-Shawkaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The response to this is that mentioning these things in conjunction does not only mean that what is haraam is what is joined together in this manner. Otherwise this would mean that zinaa, as mentioned in the ahaadeeth, is not haraam unless it is accompanied by alcohol and the use of musical instruments. By the same token, an aayah such as the following (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, he used not to believe in Allaah, the Most Great,

And urged not on the feeding of Al‑Miskeen (the poor).”

[al-Haaqqah 69:33-34]

would imply that it is not haraam to disbelieve in Allaah unless that is accompanied by not encouraging the feeding of the poor. If it is said that the prohibition of such things one at a time is proven from other reports, the response to that is that the prohibition of musical instruments is also known from other evidence, as mentioned above. (Nayl al-Awtaar, 8/107).

Some of them said that “idle talk” does not refer to singing; the refutation of that has been mentioned above. Al-Qurtubi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This – the view that it means singing – is the best that has been said concerning this aayah, and Ibn Mas’ood swore three times by Allaah besides Whom there is no other god, that it does refer to singing. Then he mentioned other imaams who said the same thing. Then he mentioned other views concerning the matter. Then he said: The first view is the best of all that has been said on this matter, because of the marfoo’ hadeeth, and because of the view of the Sahaabah and the Taabi’een. (Tafseer al-Qurtubi).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him), after quoting this Tafseer, said: Al-Haakim Abu ‘Abd-Allaah said in the Tafseer of Kitaab al-Mustadrak: Let the one who is seeking this knowledge know that the Tafseer of a Sahaabi who witnessed the revelation is a hadeeth with isnaad according to the two Shaykhs (al-Bukhaari and Muslim). Elsewhere in his book, he said: In our view this hadeeth has the same strength as a marfoo’ report. Although their tafseer is still subject to further examination, it is still more readily acceptable than the tafseer of those who came after them, because they are the most knowledgeable among this ummah of what Allaah meant in his Book. It was revealed among them and they were the first people to be addressed by it. They heard the tafseer from the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in word and in deed. And they were Arabs who understood the true meanings of (Arabic) words, so Muslims should avoid resorting to any other interpretation as much as possible.

Some of them said that singing is a form of worship if the intention is for it to help one to obey Allaah!

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: How strange! What type of faith, light, insight, guidance and knowledge can be gained from listening to tuneful verses and music in which most of what is said is haraam and deserves the wrath and punishment of Allaah and His Messenger? … How can anyone who has the least amount of insight and faith in his heart draw near to Allaah and increase his faith by enjoying something which is hated by Him, and He detests the one who says it and the one who accepts it? (Madaarij al-Saalikeen, 1/485)

Shaykh al-Islam said, discussing the state of the person who has gotten used to listening to singing: Hence you find that those who have gotten used to it and for whom it is like food and drink will never have the desire to listen to the Qur’aan or feel joy when they hear it, and they never find in listening to its verses the same feeling that they find when listening to poetry. Indeed, if they hear the Qur’aan, they hear it with an inattentive heart and talk whilst it is being recited, but if they hear whistling and clapping of hands, they lower their voices and keep still, and pay attention. (Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 11/557 ff)

Some say that music and musical instruments have the effect of softening people’s hearts and creating gentle feelings. This is not true, because it provokes physical desires and whims. If it really did what they say, it would have softened the hearts of the musicians and made their attitude and behaviour better, but most of them, as we know, are astray and behave badly.


Conclusion

Perhaps – for fair-minded and objective readers – this summary will make it clear that the view that music is permissible has no firm basis. There are no two views on this matter. So we must advise in the best manner, and then take it step by step and denounce music, if we are able to do so. We should not be deceived by the fame of a man in our own times in which the people who are truly committed to Islam have become strangers. The one who says that singing and musical instruments are permitted is simply supporting the whims of people nowadays, as if the masses were issuing fatwas and he is simply signing them! If a matter arises, they will look at the views of fuqahaa’ on this matter, then they will take the easiest view, as they claim. Then they will look for evidence, or just specious arguments which are worth no more than a lump of dead meat. How often have these people approved things in the name of sharee’ah which in fact have nothing to do with Islam!

Strive to learn your Islam from the Book of your Lord and the Sunnah of your Prophet. Do not say, So-and-so said, for you cannot learn the truth only from men. Learn the truth and then measure people against it. This should be enough for the one who controls his whims and submits himself to his Lord. May what we have written above heal the hearts of the believers and dispel the whispers in the hearts of those who are stricken with insinuating whispers. May it expose everyone who is deviating from the path of Revelation and taking the easiest options, thinking that he has come up with something which none of the earlier generations ever achieved, and speaking about Allaah without knowledge. They sought to avoid fisq (evildoing) and ended up committing bid’ah – may Allaah not bless them in it. It would have been better for them to follow the path of the believers.

And Allaah knows best. May Allaah bless and grant peace to His Messenger who made clear the path of the believers, and to his companions and those who follow them in truth until the Day of Judgement.

Summary of a paper entitled al-Darb bi’l-Nawa li man abaaha al-Ma’aazif li’l-Hawa by Shaykh Sa’d al-Deen ibn Muhammad al-Kibbi.

For more information, please see:

Al-I’laam bi Naqd Kitaab al-Halaal wa’l-Haraam, by Shaykh al-‘Allaamah Saalih ibn Fawzaan al-Fawzaan

Al-Samaa’ by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn al-Qayyim

Tahreem Aalaat al-Tarab, by Shaykh Muhammad Naasir al-Deen al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him)


http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=q...e&QR=5000&dgn=4

[elirien]

2nd video posted is my all time favourite from Nusrat. I don't understand the language, but I "get it".

Thank you. :D

[loveisthelaw]

I am Muslim but I do listen to some music, I won't try to deny it though I mostly listen to Nasheeds.

Khalid Belrhouzi is a wonderful singer, here are some of his:

Khalid Belrhouzi - In My Heart - YouTube

Khalid Belrhouzi - The Cloak (Al Burda) - YouTube

Khalid Belrhouzi - Tala&#39;al Badru Alayna - YouTube

[loveisthelaw]

And 2 more from a brother who converted :)

Allah Knows (full version) by Zain Bhikha - YouTube

Dawud Wharnsby - Give A Little - YouTube

[torus]

Thank you. :D


you are most welcome!

[elirien]

you are most welcome!

Bless you :D