What if nothing happens by 2012?

[blackstar76]

If nothing major happens by 2012 would you still believe in all this? What if all these people change the date would you still follow?

[xeon]

Personally I don't prefer to pin anything on future dates; as in this case 2012.

I'd rather base my conclusions (which can change as I grow) on current events, or the NOW. And what is happening now is crazy enough even if I never heard of 2012 in the first place.

Keep an eye on current events. There are no coincidences. At the very least, all these events serve as a reminder to humans everywhere that there is way, way, way more to this life than what they are used to believing before. At least, people will question where they are headed and what is really going on.

That can't be a bad thing, in and of itself. :)

[truthseeker94535]

If nothing major happens by 2012 would you still believe in all this? What if all these people change the date would you still follow?

Well really nothing will happen if that is your version of your reality in the physical.

[asevaaamas]

Honestly, I wish I was born into a different time period so that all the 2012 stuff wasn't looming close by. I give no thought to what might happen if anything but just the global anticipation of that date seriously freaks me out.

However, I usually don't keep track of the date so for all I know I'll find out that we're already in 2012 a month after the fact, haha. :cool:

[newworldengineer]

Honestly, I wish I was born into a different time period so that all the 2012 stuff wasn't looming close by. I give no thought to what might happen if anything but just the global anticipation of that date seriously freaks me out.

However, I usually don't keep track of the date so for all I know I'll find out that we're already in 2012 a month after the fact, haha. :cool:

It's just that we know things are getting worse in the worldly state of affairs too, and you know by 2012 we'll be at the pinnacle of this crap. I sometimes wonder why I chose to be here right before a massive paradigm shift, I certainly didn't come on this planet to work that's for sure!! :p

[fairyelfdog]

If nothing major happens by 2012 would you still believe in all this? What if all these people change the date would you still follow?

If nothing happens at 2012 then nothing happens at 2012. Thats what happens if nothing happens at 2012. Why? Whats supposed to happen at 2012?

People I know, including myself, don't care much for that theory. The awakening is happening now. It is a process and it will continue to happen for a while, besides there will never be a finished result, only expansion and creation.

So if nothing happens at 2012 I'll just nod and conclude that it was a spiritual fraud aimed at getting people to feel just like you described; that they were all wrong, that there is no awakening, to feel stupid, dissappointed and disillusioned and maybe even give up. 2012 is a distraction. It's purpose is multilayered. That doesn't mean to say that nothing important will happen at 2012. Personally I'm concerned (but not worried) that the third world war might be staged then.

Would we still follow? Follow what? What makes you think we follow anyone or anything? Your prejudice shines through.

[truthseeker94535]

In my own words.....

Through all the negativity and positivity.Female and Masculin.
We are a consciousness that lives forever!!We are all parts of Creation.
Evolving and creating through the one explosion of consciousness that has been forever to infinity.We are individual we are one we are expeariancing which is the dream that we dreamed before we got to this dream.

Life is expeariancing all polarities from beginning to end to beginning to end to infinity.We create our own reality such as the reality we are in.The most important part is rembering who we really are the one consciousness that broke apart to expeariance and expeariance everything to infinity.

[blackstar76]

Wow I am really impressed by all those answers!!! I am looking at it all the wrong way.
I have been waking up it has been just a struggle for me. I carry alot of negative energy with me and I am trying to get rid of it. Childhood abuse, drug and alcohol addiction which led me to severe anxiety and depression. My anxiety is so bad it is hard for me to leave my apt. I fear human beings and that makes it really tough to evolve with all that negative garbage in my head.
I just sometimes think we are blaming negative forces ie Aliens and NWO but most times it is just humans that are evil. I met alot of bad people in my time and finding it harder each day to find good people.
I have been meditating and listening to 528 frequency lately. My dreams are getting better and I am finding that I can control them. I have had dreams about monster tidal waves and aliens as a kid. I am just finding now that I would prefer to stay in dreamworld than be awake.
I guess bottom line is that I never really felt I belonged in this world. I would feel there is something wrong with other people or that there was something wrong with me. Anyone have any ideas how to shake all the negative thought? I am on meds for depression but they just numb me and are not making me happy or wanting to be social?

[whiterain]

Wow I am really impressed by all those answers!!! I am looking at it all the wrong way.
I have been waking up it has been just a struggle for me. I carry alot of negative energy with me and I am trying to get rid of it. Childhood abuse, drug and alcohol addiction which led me to severe anxiety and depression. My anxiety is so bad it is hard for me to leave my apt. I fear human beings and that makes it really tough to evolve with all that negative garbage in my head.
I just sometimes think we are blaming negative forces ie Aliens and NWO but most times it is just humans that are evil. I met alot of bad people in my time and finding it harder each day to find good people.
I have been meditating and listening to 528 frequency lately. My dreams are getting better and I am finding that I can control them. I have had dreams about monster tidal waves and aliens as a kid. I am just finding now that I would prefer to stay in dreamworld than be awake.
I guess bottom line is that I never really felt I belonged in this world. I would feel there is something wrong with other people or that there was something wrong with me. Anyone have any ideas how to shake all the negative thought? I am on meds for depression but they just numb me and are not making me happy or wanting to be social?

next step which is what im working on, is bringing that same feeling from a dream into everday life. as dreams become more real, life becomes more like a dream. best of luck


also ive had some of the controllable dreams, but i find the ones that are so much better are when you get lucid but decide you dont need to control anything, just look around and observe what might happen. thats when the really good stuff starts for me

[infidelyork]

The same as what happened today, and yesterday and the day before that. Life goes on, the same as it always does.

[superearther]

when you look at the facts its beginning right now. More snowfall and extended winters show we are entering an ice age in the uk. In america i have been told ice glaciers in certain places have gone. America will become a desert.

As for the increased earthquake activity this shows that some of it is man made with haarp. Most of it isnt and we are currently going through the phase of a magnetic reversal. If this reversal completes its cycle in 2012/13 it will rip our land apart and cause mass flooding. Due to sun spots peaking and creating hard magnetic points on the planetary surface.

Further things to look at are nemesis (a second sun) This alone has shown alot of credible sources from youtube. The suns emissions have been changing with suggests something else may happen. In the next two weeks nibiru will align with the sun and is in the orion constellation pulling at its gravity. Its orbit aligns with the sun in the next two weeks and could be deadly. Depends if other life forms care enough to help us. They are currently split. Some think why should we help a race that runs on greed and corruption and also kills each other? Very valid point. Sometimes even i wonder if we are worth saving.

The norway spiral has also been connected with end of days. This spiral event marks danger in itself. Ancient markings on the high up mountains point to this event and figures pointing to the sky with devil signs around them.
This event is a sign for future problems it also says we need to move to higher ground. The magnetosphere on our planet is failing and partly damaged. This also means that we are exposed to space radiation. Exposure to that results in death and mass mutation.

Our magnetic lines are twisted. Another reason why animal migration has been going wrong. We depend on animals for survival and on that topic bees have been dying in massive rates. Without them we have no crops and face mass starvation.

When nibiru does come (trust me it will as i have had talks with other life forms about it) I dont think we can survive such an event. The governments of this world are franticly building underground bases. This will only lead to their graves. They are exposing the skies with chemtrails. This nullifies vision of the incoming nibiru.

Unless we wake up to the real dangers that are going on and unite as a race. We cannot get through this. Far too many controlled by the media and personal obsessions.

[drooh]

If nothing happens?

People will find a new date to erect a mythology around.

Same as per 1999.

The new date will be 2060 which is when Newton said is the beginning of the Age of Aquarius.

If nothing happens then, same deal. Some story will emerge about some ancient race having a prophecy etc.

[dryadlover]

When nibiru does come (trust me it will as i have had talks with other life forms about it) I dont think we can survive such an event. The governments of this world are franticly building underground bases. This will only lead to their graves. They are exposing the skies with chemtrails. This nullifies vision of the incoming nibiru.


Do you have any information you could possibly share with us concerning the possible dates of its "arrival"?

[blackstar76]

I do belive in 2021 personally. Just because it came from the Mayans !!! It has happened many times before. Explains why certain species died out at certain times in earths span. The " dark rift " which the earth passed through every 25000 years will cause great destruction but it will not kill everyone and everything. The Elite know exactly what will happen and thats why they built bases in specific areas. The earth changes will kill billions. I figure they will nuke other countries that are predicted to be safe. Then manage the rest in diease and starvation. Till they get the population to where they want. My guess is whether they will start war before or after 2012. Or Nuke what they want during the event. With major earthquakes,Tidal waves and satelites crashing it would be under the prefect cover. Who ever survives will be the ultimate slaves to the NWO. It doesn't matter if you evolve spirtually because you will be tracked to the point that you cannot do anything with out them knowing and thus no threat. That is how it will go down.

[superearther]

Do you have any information you could possibly share with us concerning the possible dates of its "arrival"?

have heard many ideas on this. Some say 2012, some say two weeks, some say 2060 (i think that was sitchins conclusion) Others say around 2020. From the latest cor2 nasa cam, it shows a body (i believe it to be nibiru) and in just over a week it will align with the sun. Something may happen then. I will keep pushing for a date from the spirit world and my guides.

[dryadlover]

I will keep pushing for a date from the spirit world and my guides.

It would be very kind of you. :)

[dedicate]

Did nothing actually transpire after 2000? Seems to me, that was the crux or tipping point. Man, if you didn't notice, the NWO is global, has total control over just about everything. No chance to change that now. Also, around the year 2000 people found the internet. I think those seers who said there would be major and drastic changes "at around the turn of the Century" proved true.

Also, go to a library and find some books on the Pyramid and the prophecies outlined in it's design. Books 100 years old, all books that mention this,, say it will be on Sept.18 2001 that the world will tumble into the abyss. That's only one week after 911 event. The world hasn't been the same since,,, and the fall seems endless and without light.

[puckem]

Honestly, I wish I was born into a different time period so that all the 2012 stuff wasn't looming close by. I give no thought to what might happen if anything but just the global anticipation of that date seriously freaks me out.

However, I usually don't keep track of the date so for all I know I'll find out that we're already in 2012 a month after the fact, haha. :cool:Take the time to watch the video on this link - then, if compelled to research it more for yourself, please do so.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114925

According to Dolores and a few that have mentioned it on DIF, we're already progressing towards the shift.

Namaste

[truthseeker1980]

I do belive in 2021 personally. Just because it came from the Mayans !!! It has happened many times before. Explains why certain species died out at certain times in earths span. The " dark rift " which the earth passed through every 25000 years will cause great destruction but it will not kill everyone and everything. The Elite know exactly what will happen and thats why they built bases in specific areas. The earth changes will kill billions. I figure they will nuke other countries that are predicted to be safe. Then manage the rest in diease and starvation. Till they get the population to where they want. My guess is whether they will start war before or after 2012. Or Nuke what they want during the event. With major earthquakes,Tidal waves and satelites crashing it would be under the prefect cover. Who ever survives will be the ultimate slaves to the NWO. It doesn't matter if you evolve spirtually because you will be tracked to the point that you cannot do anything with out them knowing and thus no threat. That is how it will go down.

Dont imagine any of that!

Dont think negative about it.

Have you looked into the laws of attraction?

If not please do so... It's why these crack pot end of time films were made and why they are feeding us with negative stuff about it, so we sub-consciously attract it.

We are far more powerful than any NWO puppet masters, dont be like that please.

Be positive and try to stay positive about it.

Love and light to you! :D

[21_12_2012]

How can "nothing happen" ?

There's never been a time when "nothing has happened"

There never will be a time when "nothing is happening"

Very vague question "what if nothing happens"

Don't you mean:-

"what if there are no significant changes in mankind's evolution of consciousness to warrant a 'new beginning' and an end to the current 'dark cycle', as prophesized by several ancient cultures/calendars, characterized by possible cataclysmic events such as polar shifts and 'other dimensional' phenomena ?

In which case, my answer would be...
"the changes are happening now...how can they not be ?
2012 is but a focal point....the pinnacle of this current cycle of human consciousness evolution"

[eternal1stparty]

If nothing happens in 2012 you can smack my ass and call me sally.

[infidelyork]

If nothing happens in 2012 you can smack my ass and call me sally.

Do you have a 'Plan B' if your donkey dies before then?

[newworldengineer]

Do you have a 'Plan B' if your donkey dies before then?

lol!

[eternal1stparty]

hahaHA

[blackstar76]

Good point. Yes that is what I mean. Global changes or an awakening within the general population. Frankly I don't see a major awakening within the general population without a mass event happening. Whether that will be Aliens making contact, world war 3, or devasting earth changes.






How can "nothing happen" ?

There's never been a time when "nothing has happened"

There never will be a time when "nothing is happening"

Very vague question "what if nothing happens"

Don't you mean:-

"what if there are no significant changes in mankind's evolution of consciousness to warrant a 'new beginning' and an end to the current 'dark cycle', as prophesized by several ancient cultures/calendars, characterized by possible cataclysmic events such as polar shifts and 'other dimensional' phenomena ?

In which case, my answer would be...
"the changes are happening now...how can they not be ?
2012 is but a focal point....the pinnacle of this current cycle of human consciousness evolution"

[metallikitty]

good question.

similar thought i have had - many, MANY religions and cultures have had doomsday/end of it all type predictions, which the dates have long passed, uneventful every one.

along the same lines, what the hell is the difference between all those failed prophecies and the current prediction re: 2012?

other than the obvious fact that it crosses most borders and lines of differentiation in society; there are people of all belief systems that have similar expectations/fears.

[pipsicle]

From http://www.harmonicconvergence2010.com/:

The Full Red Planetary Moon

On the Full Red Planetary Moon of May 27, 2010, a torrent of remarkably POWERFUL FORCES will be unleashed. A COSMIC PULSE of PERFECTION, PRODUCTION and MANIFESTATION for all you could hope for and desire! This is the START of the UNIVERSAL ENERGIES that will build to the Conscious Convergence of July 17-18, 2010. The May full moon corresponds to “TONE 10 of the PLANETARY PULSE” and represents the principle allowing manifestation to occur, based on the coherence of the preceding 9 numbers.

On the RED PLANETARY MOON on May 27, Divine essence and the physical meet as one. The heavens touch the Earth; spirit and matter UNITE! The actualization of creative potential is at the heart of our nature, bringing depth, richness and importance to our lives. The entire manifest world is imagination brought to life!

This Planetary vibration cues us to consider what we are producing in our lives, and by what means. How are we manifesting our dreams? Are we incarnating our ideals? All that we bring to this world—our thoughts, words and deeds—contribute to the Planetary equation.

This Planetary frequency directs: Without judgment there is only perfection! To achieve maximum productivity: strive wholeheartedly to perfect all that you endeavor, yet also accept that there is an already existing, inherent perfection in all that is manifest, as it is, simply because it is manifest. Attempting to be overly perfectionist is actually counter-productive. Rather, allow perfection to be a continual process of aspiration. Let us delight in all that we have to bring to this planet, and enjoy all that this planet brings us.

The symbol for the RED MOON on MAY 27, 2010, appears like a BEACON; a portal inviting us into SELF-REMEMBRANCE of who we are in our purity. Red Moon is a messenger of the ever-present opportunity to renew one’s being; to rejuvenate; to cleanse ourselves that we may be free of toxins, falsehoods, distortions and dis-serving energies; to refine ourselves as clear vessels; to restore health and well being. Perhaps the strongest forces of purification and forgiveness---acknowledging the totality of our human experience as a divine gift and remembering we are ever learning, innocent students of life.

The power of UNIVERSAL WATER invites us to call upon our fluidity, adaptability, resilience and ability to change states. FLOW reminds us of the law of impermanence, asserting that change is the only constant in life. In a continual process of release and renewal, we cycle in phase with nature’s rhythms. If we are resistant to the flow of life in its patterns as well as its unpredictability, we may encounter unsacred stress or struggle, or overlook fresh opportunities presenting themselves. We can’t control the river of life, therefore its wise to yield to the momentum of the naturally arising circumstances.

Water is the largest component of our planet Earth and our human bodies! RED MOON advocates: hydrate you cells, bathe your bodies, cry your tears, claim your sanctity, go with the flow of your soul and celebrate all the wonderful and various manifestations of water, moonlight, oceans, clouds and rainstorms. May we honor this precious resource.

The HARMONIC COSMO-GENESIS of MAY 24-29, 2010 begins a cosmic countdown to the year 2012 that brings an ending and a new beginning to social, political, economic and geological cycles for America and the World. The LIVING PROPHECY that we are now voyaging through has many names ascribed to it, as it has been foretold by countless cultures and religions. The Hopi say we’re closing the 4th World of Destruction, preparing to begin the 5th World of peace. The Qui’che Maya declare that on December 21, 2012 we enter the 5th World Age - The Age of the Center. All common themes in the array of prophecy that we are processing and purifying all the imbalances of the dying world age.

We are transiting an era founded on duality and the turning away from the Great SPIRIT, resulting in greed, corruption, blind materialism and disconnection from Mother Earth. Collectively, we are poised at the brink of a World Age Rebirth, in which we enter new domains of consciousness and manifestation, redeeming the previous ages.

We entering the second decade of the 21st Century live at the edge of chaos, between a certain and uncertain future, which is an exciting place to be but anxious and unstable. This is the time when a new order is devised, new information is created and accelerated change is the main fact of our daily lives.

[superearther]

@pipsicle

red moon = nibiru?
Or could be in relation to another planet passing by our moon?

One question that is really intriguing me at the moment is the earths
magnetosphere. What or who could of blasted it?

[verndewd]

Its just a date on a calendar; while records of antiquity state there is a cyclical pattern of global destruction I am not convinced we know the calendars well enough to say.

best to focus on realization and leave the end times to fear mongers.

[pipsicle]

@pipsicle

red moon = nibiru?
Or could be in relation to another planet passing by our moon?

One question that is really intriguing me at the moment is the earths
magnetosphere. What or who could of blasted it?

Good point SE... I don't know. I suppose those of us who believe in Nibiru think it will be making an appearance at *some* point in the coming years.

I think the near future will be really amazing. I like the Hopi idea that we'll be entering the fifth world of ether. And May 27/28th this month will start the 1000 day count down to 21/12/2012.

[verndewd]

It is said in the blu star kachina/kuchina that when the red star shows up it will send messages to the earth. This past few years we have seen alot of meteors and weather issues; I am pretty certain that any hopi would tell you we are recieving those messages.

By the time we can see it according to the story time will be extremely short.

[danster82]

Nothing will happen its a cycle

[newworldengineer]

Nothing will happen its a cycle

if it's a cycle, then "something's" happening. :rolleyes:

[eustacekidd]

2012 will be a year of financial stability and several breakthroughs in science, medicine and political differences. It will be a great year.

[superearther]

Good point SE... I don't know. I suppose those of us who believe in Nibiru think it will be making an appearance at *some* point in the coming years.

I think the near future will be really amazing. I like the Hopi idea that we'll be entering the fifth world of ether. And May 27/28th this month will start the 1000 day count down to 21/12/2012.

Interesting thanks for the information. I recently heard mars gave the moon a red color.

[superearther]

2012 will be a year of financial stability and several breakthroughs in science, medicine and political differences. It will be a great year.

you failed to see that in greece/spain and portugal (soon to be extended to the uk) That our financial markets are being down valued by wall street. They want chaos to break out so we can be put under martial law. that means they can shut down the internet by law.

The bilderberg group wants all this to happen. It is pre planned. One world currency is a sad reality. I would rather nature have its say that these elite
scum bags.

[blackstar76]

you failed to see that in greece/spain and portugal (soon to be extended to the uk) That our financial markets are being down valued by wall street. They want chaos to break out so we can be put under martial law. that means they can shut down the internet by law.

The bilderberg group wants all this to happen. It is pre planned. One world currency is a sad reality. I would rather nature have its say that these elite
scum bags.

Yeah but the ELITE fail to realize there are 6 billion of us and a thousand or less of them. When every one learns the truth about them which eventually will happen we are going to Lynch everyone of them and take back our planet. They can't kill us all !!! We will prevail !!!

[superearther]

Yeah but the ELITE fail to realize there are 6 billion of us and a thousand or less of them. When every one learns the truth about them which eventually will happen we are going to Lynch everyone of them and take back our planet. They can't kill us all !!! We will prevail !!!


currently we are weak and divided. I start so many pro humane causes and take my beliefs to the street. Very little are interested. They are more concerned about whats on tv, what bullshit is in the media and their own personal gain. Many have yet to wake up and realize what humanity should be.

They also have the control. We are being controlled by rich business men who lost the true meaning of humanity along time ago. People like the rockefellers who see us as cattle and see war and loss of life as a financial triumph.

Aaron russo did an interview with nick rockefeller and mr rockefeller said to him (this was after he announced that there would be an event to start the war on oil even before it happened) He said no one cares. he said we are cattle and should be rounded up. he said exactly what i am saying right now and that is the majority of people dont stand up and be counted.

Dont get me wrong their are good people but so many bad ones.

[subl1minal]

Yeah but the ELITE fail to realize there are 6 billion of us and a thousand or less of them. When every one learns the truth about them which eventually will happen we are going to Lynch everyone of them and take back our planet. They can't kill us all !!! We will prevail !!!

We won't lynch em either, we'll let them starve!

[suzanne4sure]

It is not an "awakening" if you ask me. It is about figuring out why you are here and figuring out what you are going to do about the "being here"

Why should we get the benefit of a harvest without working in the field? There is not going to be a rescue or sudden awakening. Without working on yourself and engaging in self inquiry what makes you think that suddenly you will be "awakened" by or before 2012? What does that mean to some of you? You are creating everything. We are all creating everything in every moment of our live by our thoughts, and our actions.

Why do you think we are even here in this dimension?

And please no indoctrinated religious talking bobble heads. In fact the only thing I am absolutely positively certain of is that religion, New Age Movements, etc are fiction. YET contained, like "pins in a haystack" are undeniable truths in some of the peddled material. How to wind your way through the maze of fiction and fallacy to these "truths" is the real challenge IMO. But t is within each of us. And NO I am not talking New Age "go within, love and light monikers"

What is really becoming nauseatingly obvious to me is that the "people" that we think are running the show here are NOT. Freedom is an illusion unless you dig yourself, and know who you are regardless of outside circumstances.

Seriously when you think of ones propensity towards greed, an overwhelmingly narcissistic need for approval, etc. that pretty much describes any politician, any talking head media darling, corporate Banker CEO's, or Wall Street CEO's.

So why are we really here? There is not going to be a rescue like the rapture dear Christians. You are adhering to the most recycled, redone, repackaged religous garbly gunk on planet earth. And the Jewish and Muslim religions are right there with you on the starting block. No one gets off the hook here.

No one it seems wants to accept that our visit here to this dimension is about learning. It is a spiritual lesson IMO. The outside factors such as: wars, economic collapse, potential food shortages, natural and possible man made disasters, are diversions. The bigger diversions are the people we credit with the disasters. The way I am beginning to see this is if you make someone your Devil or your God you have just given all your power away to them. The struggle is within you, and with you. Not with them. It always has been.

It is about figuring out why you are here and deciding what it means for you. No Alex Jones, Icke, Maxwell, Stichen, etc. are going to help you figure it out. It is not about the outer events...they are just sign posts that the time is near and we must all , in our way, figure out why we are here.

I wish each of you the best in graduating off this dimension. My hint: Love in the least programmed manner.

[eustacekidd]

you failed to see that in greece/spain and portugal (soon to be extended to the uk) That our financial markets are being down valued by wall street. They want chaos to break out so we can be put under martial law. that means they can shut down the internet by law.

The bilderberg group wants all this to happen. It is pre planned. One world currency is a sad reality. I would rather nature have its say that these elite
scum bags.

There will be a turnaround, the likes never seen before. 2012 will be such an incredible year even the most ardent believer will be convinced.

[verndewd]

It is not an "awakening" if you ask me. It is about figuring out why you are here and figuring out what you are going to do about the "being here"

Why should we get the benefit of a harvest without working in the field? There is not going to be a rescue or sudden awakening. Without working on yourself and engaging in self inquiry what makes you think that suddenly you will be "awakened" by or before 2012? What does that mean to some of you? You are creating everything. We are all creating everything in every moment of our live by our thoughts, and our actions.

Why do you think we are even here in this dimension?

And please no indoctrinated religious talking bobble heads. In fact the only thing I am absolutely positively certain of is that religion, New Age Movements, etc are fiction. YET contained, like "pins in a haystack" are undeniable truths in some of the peddled material. How to wind your way through the maze of fiction and fallacy to these "truths" is the real challenge IMO. But t is within each of us. And NO I am not talking New Age "go within, love and light monikers"

What is really becoming nauseatingly obvious to me is that the "people" that we think are running the show here are NOT. Freedom is an illusion unless you dig yourself, and know who you are regardless of outside circumstances.

Seriously when you think of ones propensity towards greed, an overwhelmingly narcissistic need for approval, etc. that pretty much describes any politician, any talking head media darling, corporate Banker CEO's, or Wall Street CEO's.

So why are we really here? There is not going to be a rescue like the rapture dear Christians. You are adhering to the most recycled, redone, repackaged religous garbly gunk on planet earth. And the Jewish and Muslim religions are right there with you on the starting block. No one gets off the hook here.

No one it seems wants to accept that our visit here to this dimension is about learning. It is a spiritual lesson IMO. The outside factors such as: wars, economic collapse, potential food shortages, natural and possible man made disasters, are diversions. The bigger diversions are the people we credit with the disasters. The way I am beginning to see this is if you make someone your Devil or your God you have just given all your power away to them. The struggle is within you, and with you. Not with them. It always has been.

It is about figuring out why you are here and deciding what it means for you. No Alex Jones, Icke, Maxwell, Stichen, etc. are going to help you figure it out. It is not about the outer events...they are just sign posts that the time is near and we must all , in our way, figure out why we are here.

I wish each of you the best in graduating off this dimension. My hint: Love in the least programmed manner.

Good stuff

What does a rapture ideology serve if not to take ones desire to make a personal change that can change the world. If someone is going to save you why should you save you? An ideology for the lazy.

If there is a raptrure or a gathering up of energies it is those that have done the work to ascend that will ascend , not those who didnt do the work and relied on an idology they use to justify their own apathetic views on enlightenment.

[nirvana]

If nothing major happens by 2012 would you still believe in all this? What if all these people change the date would you still follow?


The main thing 2012 is for is for promoting books,dvds, and making lots of money.

In the real world there are no special dates the time is NOW.:)

[eternal1stparty]

2012 will be a year of financial stability and several breakthroughs in science, medicine and political differences. It will be a great year.

http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/038/661/original/obvious_troll_is_.jpg?1265390941

[eustacekidd]

I see reading between the lines, or reading in general, is beyond you. Anyways for those learning impaired people like my good friend above what better way to throw people off if the much maligned 2012 turns out top be a year of peace and prosperity, you know, before they kill 3/4's of the earths population.

[eternal1stparty]

I feel like you're a mildly sadistic nerdy looking goth kid who listens to a-lot of bad metal.

I feel like you also have no clue what your talking about.

You must do only very little reading, thats ok I guess.... lots of folks read only a little.

Don't sweat it ^_^

[eustacekidd]

I feel like you're a mildly sadistic nerdy looking goth kid who listens to a-lot of bad metal.

I feel like you also have no clue what your talking about.

You must do only very little reading, thats ok I guess.... lots of folks read only a little.

Don't sweat it ^_^

I bet that's not all you feel, amirite?

[eternal1stparty]

I bet that's not all you feel, amirite?

feelin fine

[ladygoogoo]

To OP, do you mean by "nothing happens"
that for an entire year in 2012 we won't have any genocides, wars, terror attacks, oil spills, corrupt legislators making bad laws,
increased surveillance, infringement of our privacy and right to free speech,
natural disasters, UFO sightings... etc etc.

Hey I'm all for that.
Sign me up.

[soul_traveller]

2012 is the illuminiti's aim for world domination.

It will be after this that the Illuminiti and the brotherhood secret society networks will be dismantled.

[blackstar76]

To OP, do you mean by "nothing happens"
that for an entire year in 2012 we won't have any genocides, wars, terror attacks, oil spills, corrupt legislators making bad laws,
increased surveillance, infringement of our privacy and right to free speech,
natural disasters, UFO sightings... etc etc.

Hey I'm all for that.
Sign me up.

I mean earthquakes happen all the time. I mean a significant event that will change the path we are on. Majar wars-Global control-Spirtual awakening-a comet or new object in the sky. Alien revealtion. Things like that. Something that will cause people to stop stare and wake up.

[mrindigo]

If nothing happens at 2012 then nothing happens at 2012. Thats what happens if nothing happens at 2012. Why? Whats supposed to happen at 2012?

People I know, including myself, don't care much for that theory. The awakening is happening now. It is a process and it will continue to happen for a while, besides there will never be a finished result, only expansion and creation.

So if nothing happens at 2012 I'll just nod and conclude that it was a spiritual fraud aimed at getting people to feel just like you described; that they were all wrong, that there is no awakening, to feel stupid, dissappointed and disillusioned and maybe even give up. 2012 is a distraction. It's purpose is multilayered. That doesn't mean to say that nothing important will happen at 2012. Personally I'm concerned (but not worried) that the third world war might be staged then.

Would we still follow? Follow what? What makes you think we follow anyone or anything? Your prejudice shines through.

Well said, Fairy! I couldn't have said it better myself. :)

[superearther]

There will be a turnaround, the likes never seen before. 2012 will be such an incredible year even the most ardent believer will be convinced.

Tell me who can stand up to the rich bankers that control our world? Their plan of total control is coming into place and there is nothing we can do about it.
The one world currency we DONT want is going to happen. That inturn will make our freedoms even more limited. Trust me. I have been studying these people for a long time and they dont think like us.

[superearther]

I see reading between the lines, or reading in general, is beyond you. Anyways for those learning impaired people like my good friend above what better way to throw people off if the much maligned 2012 turns out top be a year of peace and prosperity, you know, before they kill 3/4's of the earths population.

Funny how you said it will be good by 2012. Yes for the elite and rich corporations of this world it will be. That comment alone tells me that your one of them sent here to disinform others.

[superearther]

I mean earthquakes happen all the time. I mean a significant event that will change the path we are on. Majar wars-Global control-Spirtual awakening-a comet or new object in the sky. Alien revealtion. Things like that. Something that will cause people to stop stare and wake up.


i dont think you know the realization of the term earthquakes happen all the time. After haiti earthquake in the seven day period pages and pages happened.
You do realize that there was also a tsunami in haiti at that time right?

So you still think pages of earthquakes above the 2.5 magnitude are normal in 7 days? I dont.

[nectars]

i dont think you know the realization of the term earthquakes happen all the time. After haiti earthquake in the seven day period pages and pages happened.
You do realize that there was also a tsunami in haiti at that time right?

So you still think pages of earthquakes above the 2.5 magnitude are normal in 7 days? I dont.

And I dont think you know the "meaning" of the term realization tbh.

Just what is this "normal" you speak of anyway? You are speaking of nature right? Then unless one has lived literally and consciously for millions of years to the point of being able to have see all earth cycles, then how could one judge or even guess what "normal" is regarding nature?

People really are presumtious in thinking they even have a clue what a natural earth phenomena or behavior is.

[eternal1stparty]

funny how you said it will be good by 2012. Yes for the elite and rich corporations of this world it will be. That comment alone tells me that your one of them sent here to disinform others.

ding ding ding

[nectars]

ding ding ding

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/lukepolipnick/chingchang.jpg

Indeed lol :D

[eternal1stparty]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/lukepolipnick/chingchang.jpg

Indeed lol :D

Omg I didn't need to see that lol

[eustacekidd]

Yep, I'm on batshit insane duty for the NWO, too bad my cover's been blown.

[eternal1stparty]

Yep, I'm on batshit insane duty for the NWO, too bad my cover's been blown.

Or you're just an idiot.

Or both.

[eustacekidd]

Or you're just an idiot.

Or both.

If I'm an idiot, and you've been proven to be significantly less intelligent than me, then what does that make you?

[verndewd]

less than an idiot?

[eternal1stparty]

If I'm an idiot, and you've been proven to be significantly less intelligent than me, then what does that make you?


http://mirrorcracked.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/fart.jpg


Could you source that for me? I lost the link to that scientific american article...

[eustacekidd]

less than an idiot?

It would wouldn't it? How embarrassing.

[verndewd]

It would wouldn't it? How embarrassing.

haha only the insane take themselves seriously :D

[pipsicle]

From Cellular Ageing to the Physics of Angels: A Conversation with Rupert Sheldrake

Quest Magazine Interview
Interviewed by John David Ebert



Can there be a science of metaphysics? The question was posed by Immanuel Kant in 1781 with his monumental cathedral of a book, The Critique of Pure Reason. Deeply embedded within the towering spires and vaulted arches of its frame---with its ornate tracery of axioms and foliated scrollwork of concepts within concepts repeating like Cantor sets to infinity---was to be found, for the patient reader, Kant's answer: there can never be a science of metaphysics because science, by its very nature, is concerned with a recondite analysis of tangible things within the world of space and time.

Metaphysics, on the contrary, is concerned with transcendent intangibles, such as God, the soul, freedom, and immortality. Theology has never been the province of science, the primary aim of which is a coniunctio of the categories of the mind with the impressions of the senses. Metaphysics, however, confined as it is by the rigid nexus of classical logic, has always looked askance at the earthly plane as a place for confirmation of the validity of its "truths."

The question is still relevant today, for some of our most creative scientists have begun trespassing into the territory of metaphysics, which Kant had insisted should remain separate from science in order to preserve the domain of human freedom and religiousness from being absorbed by the machine of the Newtonian cosmos. Kant knew very well what would happen to society if its citizens came to believe that free will was an anachronism and that the events of one's own life were to be regarded strictly as functions of the impersonal laws of a secularized environment.

Indeed, with the publication of the works of Darwin, Marx, Freud, and Skinner during the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, precisely what Kant had feared came into cultural manifestation with the unfolding of these various materialisms. T. S. Eliot's poems "The Waste Land" and "The Hollow Men" have become emblematic of the spiritual climate of the twentieth century, particularly since every one of the classical domains of the humanities has been colonized by the expanding empire of mechanistic science. But now, as the twentieth century spirals to its finale, it would seem that science is very much in need of a blast of wind from the pneumatic spirit to set its stagnant waters in motion once again.

Rupert Sheldrake is one of the few scientists with no reservations whatsoever about discoursing on those metaphysical topics which engaged the famous banqueters of Plato's tables, such as the existence of the soul, reincarnation, or the soul of the world. He is the biologist who made himself famous with the concept of morphogenetic fields, which he articulated in his first book, A New Science of Life (1981), as a creative response to the challenge set by nineteenth-century debates between mechanists and vitalists over the development of organisms.

In the 1990's, the "organicists" first proposed the idea of morphogenetic fields as a kind of golden mean between the extremes of mechanism and vitalism. The models proposed by these thinkers, however, tended towards Platonism, with their vision of morphogenetic fields as transcendent "laws" of organization. But Sheldrake's innovation was to see these fields as themselves evolving along with the forms which they produce.

And indeed for Sheldrake, the "laws" of the universe may not in fact be laws at all, but rather deeply ingrained habits of action which have been built up over the many eons in which the universe has spun itself out. Like the ancient riverbeds on the surface of Mars left behind by the pressures of flowing water over billions of years, so too, the "laws" of the universe may be thought of as runnels engraved in the texture of space-time by endless, unchanging repetition. And the longer particular patterns persist, the greater their tendency to resist change. Sheldrake terms this habitual tendency of nature "morphic resonance," whereby present forms are shaped through the influence of past forms. Morphic resonance is transmitted by means of "morphogenetic fields," which are analogous to electromagnetic fields in that they transmit information, but differ in that they do so without using energy, and are therefore not diminished by transmission through time or space.

Sheldrake illustrates his idea with the analogy of a television set. Though we can alter the images on our screens by adjusting components or distorting them---just as we can alter or distort phenotypical characteristics through genetic engineering---it by no means follows that the images are coming from inside the television set. They are in fact encoded as information coming from electromagnetic frequencies which the skillful arrangement of the transistors and circuits within the television set enables us to pick up and render visible. Likewise, it is not at all necessary for us to assume that the physical characteristics of organisms are contained inside the genes, which may in fact be analogous to transistors tuned in to the proper frequencies for translating invisible information into visible form. Thus, morphogenetic fields are located invisibly in and around organisms, and may account for such hitherto unexplainable phenomena as the regeneration of severed limbs by worms and salamanders, phantom limbs, the holographic properties of memory, telepathy, and the increasing ease with which new skills are learned as greater quantities of a population acquire them.

When Sheldrake's first book was published, needless to say, there was great controversy in the academic journals regarding the value of his hypothesis. One reviewer in Nature magazine considered that the book would make good kindling for a fire, at least, if nothing else. Such reactions, however, are an indication that someone has come up with a perspective containing enough incendiary potential to melt down the rusted old paradigm and reforge it into something fresh. One recalls the anxieties of Saturn which impelled him to devour his children when he learned that Zeus was coming to put an end to his Golden Age. Sheldrake's first book was followed by his magnum opus, The Presence of the Past (1988), a philosophical and cultural amplification of ideas presented academically in the first volume. This was followed by The Rebirth of Nature (1991), in which he traced the birth, rise, and inevitable senescence of the materialistic world view that is presently crumbling beneath the onslaught of such fresh thought worlds as chaos theory, the Gaia hypothesis, cellular symbiosis, and morphic resonance. Sheldrake's next book, Trialogues at the Edge of the West (1992), was a series of discussions with friends Terence McKenna and Ralph Abraham regarding the current state of cosmology.

In 1995, Sheldrake's little gem Seven Experiments That Could Change the World was proposed as a do-it-yourself guide to science, in the spirit that some of science's great ideas have come from amateurs and dilettantes outside the formal academic world (Leeuwenhoek was a janitor; Mayer was a surgeon; Mendel was a monk). Sheldrake presents a series of experiments in which he invites the reader to participate in the investigation of such unexplained phenomena as pets who know when their owners are coming home, the strange homing powers of pigeons, or the phenomenon of phantom limbs.

Most recently Sheldrake has collaborated with theologian Matthew Fox on two sets of dialogues, Natural Grace and the Physics of Angels, in which the ongoing conversation between science and spirituality finds fresh incarnation. A new set of discussions with Abraham and McKenna is on the way, to be entitled Trialogues at the Edge of the Unthinkable.

In the following interview, Sheldrake and I discuss his ideas about aging, the existence of the soul, reincarnation, ghosts, telepathy, and angels. For despite Kant's insistence on keeping the two spheres separate, it is important to know what the changing perspectives of science have to say about traditional spiritual beliefs. The elementary ideas of the human imagination---gods, spirits, the category of the holy---have been ubiquitous throughout the development of human evolution, and there is no reason to think that the death of orthodox Christianity at the hands of an increasingly arrogant mechanistic science means that these ideas are merely vestigial relics from man's "superstitious" past. On the contrary, as Carl Jung often pointed out, modern man's lack of contact with these ideas has left him vulnerable to all sorts of political, social, and economic hysterias which have plagued the course of the twentieth century with one catastrophe after another. It is therefore important to bring the two perspectives together in order to heal the deep schism between the sciences and the humanities, which has resulted in an inability to communicate with each other, which C. P. Snow remarked upon in his book The Two Cultures.

JE: One of the first papers that you wrote was on the aging, growth, and death of cells. Can you say a few words about the theory of aging that you proposed in that paper?

RS: Well, I think aging is inherent in all forms of life because accidents occur, things go wrong, just like they do in a house, where there's always something that goes wrong and needs repairing. But living cells have limited repair capacities. And so, when there are mistakes that can't be repaired, they tend to accumulate. That I think is the basis of aging. My proposal was that what happens in regeneration is that cells can be regenerated only by growing so fast that they dilute these breakdown products, these seeds of death that build up as a result of aging.

Or, cells divide asymmetrically---that is, they divide in an unequal way, so that one of the daughter cells gets the seeds of death in an unfair measure, while the other one is regenerated. Asymmetrical cell division is very common in both animals and plants, in tissues which go on growing indefinitely, like the skin, the blood cells, or the growing tips of plant shoots. It's also found in the way egg cells are formed in both animals and plants, where, for every egg cell that's made, there are three highly mortal cells which are cast aside as the new regenerated egg cell is formed. So this was the basis of the cellular theory of aging as I proposed it in my Nature paper.

JE: Joseph Campbell (102) once suggested that the idea of morphogenetic fields reminded him of the Hindu concept of maya ---the field of space-time that gives birth to the forms of the world. You wrote your first book, A New Science of Life, while living in an ashram in India. Do you think that the content of your book was influenced at all by a resonance with the traditions of Indian thought?

RS: Well, I think it probably was, but the basic idea of morphic resonance and morphic fields came to me while I was in Cambridge, before I went to live in India. The main influence on my thinking about morphogenetic fields came from the holistic tradition in developmental biology, where these fields are fairly widely accepted.

The main influence on my idea of an influence through time---the morphic resonance idea---in fact came through Henri Bergson in his book Matter and Memory, where he argues that memory is not stored in a material form in the brain. I realized that Bergson's ideas on memory, which were to me completely new and incredibly exciting, could be generalized, and it was really through reflecting on Bergson's thought that I came to this idea.

However, when I went to work in India in an agricultural institute, I went on thinking about these ideas, and indeed they had much in common with Indian thought. I discovered, when I was first thinking about these things in Cambridge, that many people there simply couldn't understand what I was going on about---particularly scientists---and thought the idea was too ridiculous to be worth taking seriously. When I arrived in India and discussed it with Hindu friends and colleagues, they took the opposite approach; they said, "There's nothing new in this, it was all known millennia ago to the ancient rishis." So, they found the ideas perfectly acceptable; the only thing was, they weren't particularly interested in extending them into a scientific hypothesis.

I worked for five years in an agricultural institute before I went to live in the ashram to write my book. And I dare say, the climate of Indian thought was a very fertile one for me. It enabled me to go on thinking about these ideas in a much more favorable environment than if I'd been doing it in Cambridge. But the germs of these ideas, the roots of my own thought, are in Western philosophy and science rather than Oriental philosophy. So, it's a kind of convergence.

JE: You see evolutionary history as a tension between the two forces of habit---or morphic resonance---and creativity, which involves the appearance of new morphic fields. But in the case of mass extinctions you suggested once that the ghosts of dead species would still be haunting the world, that the fields of the dinosaurs would still be potentially present if you could tune into them. Would you mind commenting on how it might be possible for extinct species to reappear?

RS: Well, I haven't in mind some kind of Jurassic Park scenario. What I was thinking of was that the fields would remain present, but the conditions for tuning into them are no longer there if the species is extinct, so they're not expressed. However, it's a well known fact in evolutionary studies that some of the features of extinct species can reappear again and again. Sometimes this happens in occasional mutations, sometimes it turns up in the fossil record. And when these features of extinct species reappear, they're usually given the name, "atavism," which implies a kind of throwback to an ancestral form. Atavisms were well known to Darwin, and he was very interested in them for the same reasons I am, that they seem to imply a kind of memory of what went before.

JE: Do you think that morphic fields could account for the existence of ghosts in any way?

RS: Well, the fields represent a kind of memory. If places have memories, then I suppose it's possible for ghostly-type phenomena to be built into their fields. This is a very hazy area of speculation and not one I've thought through rigorously. And I've had no incentive to think it through rigorously because it's so hard to think of repeatable experiments with ghosts. But ghosts do seem to be a kind of memory thing, and morphic fields have to do with memory, so there may well be a connection.

JE: Karl Pribram suggests that memories are spread throughout the brain like waves, or holograms, and you go further in suggesting that memories may not be stored in the brain at all, but rather that the brain acts as a tuning device and picks up memories analogously to the way a television tunes in to certain frequencies. Furthermore, you've suggested that if memories aren't stored in the brain at all, this leaves the door open for the possibility of the existence of the soul. Can you explain how your ideas on the existence of the soul fit into this paradigm?

RS: Well, we should clarify the terms here. The traditional view in Europe was that all animals and plants have souls---not just people---and that these souls were what organized their bodies and their instincts. In some ways, therefore, the traditional idea of soul is very similar to what I mean by morphic fields. The traditional view of the soul in Aristotle and in St. Thomas Aquinas was not the idea of some immortal spiritual principle. It was that the soul is a part of nature, a part of physics, in the general sense. It's that which organizes living bodies. In that sense, all morphic fields of plants and animals are like souls.

However, in the case of human beings, the additional question arises as to whether it's possible for the soul to persist after bodily death. Now, normally souls are associated with bodies. And the theory I'm putting forward is one that would see the soul normally associated with the body and memories coming about by morphic resonance. If it's possible for the soul to survive the death of the body, then you could have a persistence of memory and of consciousness. From the point of view of the theory I'm putting forward, there's nothing in the theory that says the soul has to survive the death of the body, and there's nothing that says that it can't. So this is simply an open question. But it's not one that can be decided a priori.

JE: In your book The Presence of the Past (220B2), you have an interesting theory of reincarnation. You suggest that people who have memories of past lives may actually be tuning in to the memories of other people in the morphogenetic field, and that they may not actually represent reincarnated people at all. Would you care to comment on that?

RS: Yes. I'm suggesting that through morphic resonance we can all tune in to a kind of collective memory, memories from many people in the past. It's theoretically possible that we could tune into the memories of specific people. That might be explained subjectively as a memory of a past life. But this way of thinking about it doesn't necessarily mean this has to be reincarnation. The fact that you can tune into somebody else's memories doesn't prove that you are that person. Again, I would leave the question open.

But, you see, this provides a middle way of thinking about the evidence for memories of past lives, for example, that collected by Ian Stevenson and others. Usually the debate is polarized between people who say this is all nonsense because reincarnation is impossible---the standard scientific, skeptical view (I should say, the standard skeptical view; it's not particularly scientific)---and the other people who say this evidence proves what we've always believed, namely, the reality of reincarnation. I'm suggesting that it's possible to accept the evidence and accept the phenomenon, but without jumping to the conclusion that it has to be reincarnation.

JE: So your theory that information can be transmitted by these nonmaterial morphic fields makes theoretically plausible a paradigm in which phenomena such as telepathy or ESP can be understood. Can you explain how your paradigm makes sense out of this type of phenomena?

RS: Well, if people can tune in to what other people have done in the past, then telepathy is a kind of logical extension of that. If you think of somebody tuning in to somebody else's thought a fraction of a second ago, then it becomes almost instantaneous and approaches the case of telepathy. So telepathy doesn't seem to be particularly difficult in principle to explain, if there's a world in which morphic resonance takes place.

I think that some of the other phenomena of parapsychology are hard to explain from the point of view of morphic fields and morphic resonance. For example, anything to do with precognition or premonition doesn't fit in to an idea of influences just coming in from the past. So, I don't think this is going to give a blanket explanation of all parapsychological phenomena, but I think it's going to make some of it at least, seem normal, rather than paranormal.

JE: In your book Seven Experiments That Could Change the World, you point out that the expectations of experimenters have a great deal to do with the outcome of their experiments. And you even suggest that they might influence their experiments through psychokinesis or telepathy. Would you mind discussing how that might work?

RS: Yes, it's well known that, in psychology and in medicine, the experimenter's expectations can and do influence the outcome of experiments, which is why people use blind experimental techniques to try and minimize this effect. The second point is a new one that I've just discovered by doing a survey of the literature and scientific practice of laboratories from different branches of science. And this reveals that in the physical sciences and in most of biology, people never do blind experiments. There's no protection, whatever, against possible experimenter effects. It seems to me quite possible that experimenters could be biasing the way they record their data. And I would be very surprised if that doesn't happen in conventional science.

But I think something more surprising and alarming might be happening, as you suggest, namely, a possible psychokinetic influence over the actual experimental system. Scientists would be completely unprepared for this if it were happening; they'd take no precautions against it. The culture of institutional science dismisses it as impossible. So, there would be a great vulnerability to this effect, if it's going on, and it might be happening quite commonly in science.

We know from the psychokinetic studies of Robert Jahn of Princeton that people can influence random number generators in a rather surprising way, even at a distance. And since quantum events and random number generators are not unlike the quantum events occurring in physical, chemical, and biological systems, there's already a precedent in experimental data for this kind of mind over matter effect. In Jahn's experiments, people are simply doing a kind of harmless game. In scientific experiments, where the experimenter has a lot invested in the outcome of the experiment, a lot of hopes and tensions and funding proposals hinging on what happens, the intensity of expectation may be much greater, and the consequences far larger than anything detected by Jahn. But this is an unexplained area. In that book I suggest several experiments that could be done in order to test for this effect in conventional science.

JE: Your recent books Natural Grace and The Physics of Angels, co-written with Matthew Fox, are explorations into the interface between science and spirituality. There have been other important scientists---such as David Bohm and Fritjof Capra---who have also taken an interest in crossbreeding science and spirituality. In what ways do you see these two areas of discourse intersecting and what kinds of cultural hybrids do you see resulting from this fusion?

RS: There are many areas of potential intersection. One is the cosmological, because when science is talking about creation, it's getting into a realm that has been very much the preserve of religion for a long time. I'm not now thinking simply of "where did the big bang come from?" If we focus too much on the initial moments of creation, about which we know practically nothing, we get into a situation rather like that of the eighteenth-century deists, who thought of God making the world machine and starting it up and then standing back and letting it go on by itself.

I'm more interested in the ongoing creativity, which is expressed in the evolutionary process, and the evolutionary process must have an inherent creativity, and we know that our universe is creative at all levels, physical, biological, or mental, cultural, and so on. So, what is the source of this creativity? Well, it's really a metaphysical question and materialist science has no other suggestion than chance, which really means that it's unintelligible---we can't think about it. However, this does overlap with traditional areas of theological and spiritual enquiry. Therefore this is one area of discussion.

Another is the nature of the soul, the psyche, consciousness, which science, until very recently, has had almost nothing to say about but which is obviously of crucial importance to our understanding of ourselves and of nature. And as I show in my book with Matthew Fox, there are yet further areas, such as the question of prayer and how it works. If people praying for things to happen on the other side of the world have a statistically measurable effect on what does happen, you've got a kind of action at a distance, which is in the purview of science to investigate. And this is precisely what people who pray claim can happen. So I think there are quite a number of areas of fruitful discourse and enquiry. And I think that as science breaks out of this narrow mechanism that has been its straitjacket for so long, approaching a more holistic view of nature, then much more possibility of fruitful interaction occurs between science and the spiritual.

JE: You mention that your new book, The Physics of Angels, was inspired by the similarity of St. Thomas Aquinas's descriptions of angels as without mass or body, and the modern view of science that particles of light - photons - also have neither mass nor body. Can you elaborate on the significance of this?

RS: Well, when Matthew Fox and I were first talking about angels together, this was one of the points we raised. We both found it quite fascinating. I think that Aquinas was trying to think as logically and as rationally as he could about what it would mean to be a being with no mass which could yet move and act. If you think in those terms, I suppose you come to rather similar conclusions as people like Einstein and other pioneers in the present century, when they were thinking about relativity and quantum theory. You're sort of driven to very similar conclusions. Einstein's photons of light have remarkable parallels to Aquinas's discussions of the movements of angels. And I think it's because they were starting from similar premises. And thinking in a similarly logical way about the consequences.

References

Campbell, Joseph. The Inner Reaches of Outer Space. New York: Harper & Row, 1988

Fox, Matthew, and Rupert Sheldrake. Natural Grace: Dialogues on Creation, Darkness, and the Soul in Spirituality and Science. New York: Doubleday, 1996

Jahn, Robert G. and Brenda J. Dunne. Margins of Reality: The Role of Consciousness in the Physical World. New York: Harcourt, Brace, Jovanovich, 1987

Sheldrake, Rupert. "The Ageing, Growth and Death of Cells." Nature 250 (1974): 381B5

A New Science of Life: The Hypothesis of Formative Causation. Los Angeles: Tarcher, 1981

The Presence of the Past: Morphic Resonance and the Habits of Nature. New York: Random House, 1988

The Rebirth of Nature: The Greening of Science and God. New York: Bantam, 1991

Seven Experiments That Could Change the World: A Do-It-Yourself Guide to Revolutionary Science. New York: Riverhead Books, 1995

Sheldrake, Rupert, Terence McKenna, and Ralph Abraham. Trialogues at the Edge of the West. Santa Fe, NM: Bear, 1992

Stevenson, Ian. Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation. Charlottesville: University of Virginia Press, 1974.

[superearther]

And I dont think you know the "meaning" of the term realization tbh.

Just what is this "normal" you speak of anyway? You are speaking of nature right? Then unless one has lived literally and consciously for millions of years to the point of being able to have see all earth cycles, then how could one judge or even guess what "normal" is regarding nature?

People really are presumtious in thinking they even have a clue what a natural earth phenomena or behavior is.

so you have never read robert felix's books then? I have studied earth change and what it does. Dont second guess me i think you will find your opinion to be very ignorant in that regard.

[superearther]

Yep, I'm on batshit insane duty for the NWO, too bad my cover's been blown.

Then perhaps you would like to enlighten everyone to as why you promote their agenda in saying the future will be fantastic?

[eustacekidd]

Then perhaps you would like to enlighten everyone to as why you promote their agenda in saying the future will be fantastic?

That's not what I said at all, please read my posts fully to avoid further embarrassment.

[kronoix]

I remember hearing in a video on this subject, that it isn't just going to be a sudden change. The change started around the year 2000, after that, people have started on the path of awakening at an alarming rate.

My personal belief is that TPTB would make use of technology to engineer events such as tsunamis and earthquakes, to instill fear into people, just like they have through the news and the 2012 film.

[superearther]

That's not what I said at all, please read my posts fully to avoid further embarrassment.

forget it your a troll

[eustacekidd]

forget it your a troll

This isn't rocket science, just go back and read my posts.

[eternal1stparty]

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/042/274/original/1267773073100.jpg?1267773378

[torus]

What if nothing happens by 2012?

a document will be found confirming that David didn't "slay" Goliath, he just beat the crap out of him. the document will attest to the veracity of 2020 being the year when it all comes into "focus". the document will be found by a young child, 5-7 years of age at most and he will have just attended a Peter-pulling contest at St. Taffy's.

anything goes

[verndewd]

What if nothing happens by 2012?

a document will be found confirming that David didn't "slay" Goliath, he just beat the crap out of him. the document will attest to the veracity of 2020 being the year when it all comes into "focus". the document will be found by a young child, 5-7 years of age at most and he will have just attended a Peter-pulling contest at St. Taffy's.

anything goes

I disagree , I think the document will disclose he was ass raped by a nephilim he wanted to slay and never went back. :evil grin:

[eustacekidd]

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/042/274/original/1267773073100.jpg?1267773378

The fact that you cant even grasp what you're doing is hilarious.

[eternal1stparty]

The fact that you cant even grasp what you're doing is hilarious.

I have contributed to this thread making me a CON-TRIB-U-TOR

Contributor [kənˈtrɪbjʊtə]
n
1. (Communication Arts / Journalism & Publishing) a person who contributes, esp one who writes for a newspaper or one who makes a donation to a cause, etc.
2. something that is a factor in or is partly responsible for something

You came in here and spewed some LOG-A-RIA

Logaria

1.Diarrhea of the mouth; can't control the words coming out of the mouth; one has no idea what they are saying in a sober state of reality.



With the point of intentionally inflaming the conversation which is called TROLL-ING

Trolling

1.Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.


Which makes you a TROLL

Troll

1.One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.


http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/successful_troll.jpg

[verndewd]

a nearly sensless thread becomes a doctoral thesis on bashing each other :p

[eustacekidd]

Useless drivel.

Your copying and pasting skills are second to none, you read a lot yes? Still, you cant see the ironing of the situation and that's so funny it's a little sad.

[verndewd]

I think the forums members should start rating the attacks on a scale of 1-10. maybe we can begin an olympic competition of insults and put downs.

I am going to score you each at a 4 for the last few comments, curious to see how other self made judges score. :D

[eustacekidd]

I think the forums members should start rating the attacks on a scale of 1-10. maybe we can begin an olympic competition of insults and put downs.

I am going to score you each at a 4 for the last few comments, curious to see how other self made judges score. :D

What makes you qualified to judge?

[verndewd]

What makes you qualified to judge?

absolutely squat :D Im only qualified to be a dopey ass meat puppet like the rest of mankind.

[shed7628]

What if nothing happens by 2012?

David wilcock (and i do like listening to him) and many others will have to come up with a reason why nothing happenend.

[eternal1stparty]

Your copying and pasting skills are second to none, you read a lot yes? Still, you cant see the ironing of the situation and that's so funny it's a little sad.

*fart

[verndewd]

*fart

I'll score that a 6 :D for abstract randomness.

[torus]

WHY!!!!? why this date fetish? good god....

[jayelowell]

It's an absolute happening of celestial bodies! This should be common knowledge at this point!

[eustacekidd]

I'll score that a 6 :D for abstract randomness.

I'm having you taken off the judging panel for thinking fart jokes are anything other than a desperation move.

[verndewd]

I'm having you taken off the judging panel for thinking fart jokes are anything other than a desperation move.

as a contestant youll have to fill out a form in triplicate and make 200 copies for the panellists commitee, if after 30 days you have no reply then youll have to file again :D

[eternal1stparty]

I'm having you taken off the judging panel for thinking fart jokes are anything other than a desperation move.

Confucius say, "Man who drop watch in toilet have shitty time."



Desperation, no.



Bored, yes.

[eustacekidd]

Confucius say, "Man who drop watch in toilet have shitty time."



Desperation, no.



Bored, yes.

Oh, you're still around.... sorry the thread kinda moved on from you, I thought you would have noticed but I forgot how slow witted you are.

[ashaffe]

If nothing major happens by 2012 would you still believe in all this? What if all these people change the date would you still follow?

I think the whole 2012 prophecy thing is disinformation. It is to get you to wait for some big event so you don't take action or responsibility in the now.

Zeitgeist Movement (http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com)

My Blog (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=523038426)

http://www.youtube.com/user/a1d4a1m5

[pipsicle]

I think the whole 2012 prophecy thing is disinformation. It is to get you to wait for some big event so you don't take action or responsibility in the now.

Zeitgeist Movement (http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com)

My Blog (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=523038426)

http://www.youtube.com/user/a1d4a1m5


I see your point and would propbably agree had it not been prophesied by so many ancient cultures like the Mayans, Aztecs, Hopis etc.

[edelweiss pirate]

I see your point and would propbably agree had it not been prophesied by so many ancient cultures like the Mayans, Aztecs, Hopis etc.

Nothing has been prophesised as far as I can tell.

Merely that their numerical system which is base 12, ran out of numbers when it got to 13.

Just like the Y2K thing.

It's a calender that's run out of numbers. Nothing more.

The rest if total BS and fear riddled jumpiness mixed with wishful thinking.

[newworldengineer]

I think the whole 2012 prophecy thing is disinformation. It is to get you to wait for some big event so you don't take action or responsibility in the now.

Zeitgeist Movement (http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com)

My Blog (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=523038426)

http://www.youtube.com/user/a1d4a1m5

and that's why I disagree with the zeitgeist movement because they probably negate the obvious shifts in consciousness we're going through at the minute.

[edelweiss pirate]

and that's why I disagree with the zeitgeist movement because they probably negate the obvious shifts in consciousness we're going through at the minute.

For 'shift in consciousness' I prefer the term 'people using the internet for their information'

There's no need to make something factual and logical appear somehow 'magical' and elusively mysterious.

We have access to real and valuable information which has possibly never been released to the public at any previous point in history.

There's your 'shift' right there. It's about information. Not aliens, mysterious photon belts or lost planets hurtling towards us.

[pipsicle]

and that's why I disagree with the zeitgeist movement because they probably negate the obvious shifts in consciousness we're going through at the minute.

That's what I meant to add NWe - there are also massive shifts in consciousness (like 2 million people marching against war in London in 2003) and the 9/11 victims' families heroically saying "no" to revenge.

[newworldengineer]

For 'shift in consciousness' I prefer the term 'people using the internet for their information'

There's no need to make something factual and logical appear somehow 'magical' and elusively mysterious.

We have access to real and valuable information which has possibly never been released to the public at any previous point in history.

There's your 'shift' right there. It's about information. Not aliens, mysterious photon belts or lost planets hurtling towards us.

I think that's all down to personal perception and what's happened in your own life, I've had too many experiences pertaining to these shifts in consciousness to make me believe anything different. I agree the internet is a big part of this shift, without that I wouldn't have gotten half the information that put me on this path. But then I've had my own personal visions which have assisted me in what's to come too... so I'm gonna listen to myself.

[newworldengineer]

That's what I meant to add NWe - there are also massive shifts in consciousness (like 2 million people marching against war in London in 2003) and the 9/11 victims' families heroically saying "no" to revenge.

exactly, there are loads of examples, people should look for them all the time, it's heartwarming... I saw the "Everything is ok" series of videos as a shift too, they're everywhere.

[dryadlover]

Nothing has been prophesised as far as I can tell.
Merely that their numerical system which is base 12, ran out of numbers when it got to 13.
Just like the Y2K thing.
It's a calender that's run out of numbers. Nothing more.
The rest if total BS and fear riddled jumpiness mixed with wishful thinking.

Then my friend, you are in for a realy big surprise. ;)
There are things out there, that are very difficult to comprehend for a typical human reason.
I suggest doing more research on that subject, however.
:)

[edelweiss pirate]

I think that's all down to personal perception and what's happened in your own life, I've had too many experiences pertaining to these shifts in consciousness to make me believe anything different. I agree the internet is a big part of this shift, without that I wouldn't have gotten half the information that put me on this path. But then I've had my own personal visions which have assisted me in what's to come too... so I'm gonna listen to myself.

Fair enough, you come across as quite sensible, but people being what they are 'shift in consciousness' is carte blanche to believe all sorts of crazy deluded stuff, aliens, planet X and the photon belt have all been dragged into this 2012 concept.

Making a potential laughing stock of anyone who might be willing to take any of this conspiracy stuff seriously.

[edelweiss pirate]

Then my friend, you are in for a realy big surprise. ;)
There are things out there, that are very difficult to comprehend for a typical human reason.
I suggest doing more research on that subject, however.
:)

There's nothing you can substantiate. It's all science fiction fantasy and delusion invented by New agers working with the New World order on the latest psyop to baffle the masses.

[newworldengineer]

Fair enough, you come across as quite sensible, but people being what they are 'shift in consciousness' is carte blanche to believe all sorts of crazy deluded stuff, aliens, planet X and the photon belt have all been dragged into this 2012 concept.

Making a potential laughing stock of anyone who might be willing to take any of this conspiracy stuff seriously.

that's why you shouldn't really believe anything unless you personally experience it or intuitively know it to be true. There are alot of stuff surrounding 2012 that I don't buy into one bit, but as advice to you I'd keep your eye open to changes that wouldn't have nessarcarily happened in the past due to the fact that many people are just starting to think differently. :)

[edelweiss pirate]

that's why you shouldn't really believe anything unless you personally experience it or intuitively know it to be true. There are alot of stuff surrounding 2012 that I don't buy into one bit, but as advice to you I'd keep your eye open to changes that wouldn't have nessarcarily happened in the past due to the fact that many people are just starting to think differently. :)

I've experienced the change. I'm writing about the true nature of the earth changes in my new book at the moment. A lot of the changes actually materialse because of stress and pressure on the person in question.

The so called great masonic work uses this idea of Alchemistic transformation of dross metal to gold by putting humanity under collective stress to hope for a change in the crucible of suffering. It never works however because the masons are corrupt and evil and are not able to bring about any good because they do not have the seed of goodness within themselves.

David Icke knows all about it, so does Wilcock, but for some reason he wants to get aliens involved which is probably unwise.

Thing is I could tell you about the transformation but it might spoil your chance to work it our for yourself. Still, I've given more than enough hints by now.

You just need to start testing the solidity of reality around you and see what you are capable of (and I don't mean bang your head against the wall)

[dryadlover]

There's nothing you can substantiate. It's all science fiction fantasy and delusion invented by New agers working with the New World order on the latest psyop to baffle the masses.

The research can also be done internally. I suggest connection to your Higher Self and geting the answers from within, for this is a higly spiritual issue.

Yet i do understand that ignorance is a blissfull choice and i fully respect it.

:)

[edelweiss pirate]

The research can also be done internally. I suggest connection to your Higher Self and geting the answers from within, for this is a higly spiritual issue.

Yet i do understand that ignorance is a blissfull choice and i fully respect it.

:)

You can't assume I don't know anything about my higher self merely because I think 2012 is a psy op.

That's actually a slur mate. Please don't turn on me mate, I know plenty about the higher self, you 2012 clowns don't own anything but unsubstantiated fantasies let alone 'spirituality'.

[dryadlover]

You can't assume I don't know anything about my higher self merely because I think 2012 is a psy op.
That's actually a slur mate. Please don't turn on me mate, I know plenty about the higher self, you 2012 clowns don't own anything but unsubstantiated fantasies let alone 'spirituality'.

What do you know about it? Send me a PM if you do not mind, my friend. :)

I sense blockages in the heart center, i suggest more ballancing work with a strong emphazis on acceptance and understanding.

Take care. :)

[edelweiss pirate]

What do you know about it? Send me a PM if you do not mind, my friend. :)

I sense blockages in the heart center, i suggest more ballancing work with a strong emphazis on acceptance and understanding.

Take care. :)

Just for that new age guilt trip crap I'm not going to tell you anything.

If you want to know buy my book when it comes out.

Unless of course you can work it out for yourself. Plenty of clues out there.

[dryadlover]

If you want to know buy my book when it comes out.


I will not need it.

Sorry to be off topic.

Here is a basic of my own quick perception.

If we take New Age way of thinking, which I am very fond of, and use it’s concepts to explain the metaphysical definition of Higher Self, we will come to the following understanding. The Higher Self, is, that self which exists with full understanding of the accumulation of experiences of the entity, aids the entity in achieving healing of the experiences which have not been learned properly and assists in further life experience programming. From that perspective it may be concluded, that our mind/body/spirit complex totality, i.e. us here and now functions as, shall we say, a resource for the Higher self. The Higher self, in turn, is a resource for examining the distillations of third-density experience and programming further experience.

I am sorry again to stay off topic, but your book will not be required, and i hope you will find my description to be of great usage to your book.

Take care. :)

[edelweiss pirate]

I will not need it.

Sorry to be off topic.

Here is a basic of my own quick perception.

If we take New Age way of thinking, which I am very fond of, and use it’s concepts to explain the metaphysical definition of Higher Self, we will come to the following understanding. The Higher Self, is, that self which exists with full understanding of the accumulation of experiences of the entity, aids the entity in achieving healing of the experiences which have not been learned properly and assists in further life experience programming. From that perspective it may be concluded, that our mind/body/spirit complex totality, i.e. us here and now functions as, shall we say, a resource for the Higher self. The Higher self, in turn, is a resource for examining the distillations of third-density experience and programming further experience.

I am sorry again to stay off topic, but your book will not be required, and i hope you will find my description to be of great usage to your book.

Take care. :)

Lol. You're too late. I've already written the above. Read the 'Total reality!' chapter if you care to and my information on the nature of the unconsious mind. Anyway you're still missing a trick, it's right in your face.

Don't worry, the news'll be so big in a few years that even you will be able to tag along and understand it.

[dryadlover]

Lol. You're too late. I've already written the above. Read the 'Total reality!' chapter if you care to and my information on the nature of the unconsious mind. Anyway you're still missing a trick, it's right in your face.

Don't worry, the news'll be so big in a few years that even you will be able to tag along and understand it.

Your self confidence is aspiring, yet the judgemental value of your awareness lacks the principle of , shall we say, respect.

I have read your chapter "Total reality!", and must say, that you have a solid understanding of the basic concepts. Well done! You may want to go deeper, however, if you seek further exploration of this infinite subject, for i suggest more technical elements so that the information is no that "obvious".

Good luck on your path.

Now it is wise not to stay off topic anymore.
:)

[_tzupidity]

If nothing major happens by 2012 would you still believe in all this? What if all these people change the date would you still follow?

Firstly, I don't believe anything is going to happen. All through history people have been told they're in the END TIMES OF DOOOOM and that after struggles a utopia will emerge. This is no diferent. The mayan calendar is a cycle. Cycles don't begin or end, the cycle.

I think the truth movement will live on because most genuine truth seekers aren't interested in 2012, they're interested in the corrupt banking and government systems and they'll still be here or be replaced with their next version.

I think most of the truth movement leaders will vanish of the face of the earth with their loot from last minute books, dvds and lectures.

Some will remain and say that it has actually happened and those of us still here have been left behind. They'll claim they chose to stay with us and will get even more hardcore. Truth Seeking will become the new apocalyptic religion but with a post apocalyptic twist. You'll either be spirited but not good enough to have made it and you can accept that and follow them, or you can be branded 'sheeple' who are the walking talking husks of people who's spirits did ascend.

Also expect communes to develop where 'truth seekers' will invite you to live after giving up all your material (evil) goods and monies.

By concentrating on 'new' things like chemtrails and putting new twists on old things (reptilians) they just create the illusion that all of this is new. It isn't. It's all a big game to keep us scared and freaked out so we waste our lives following false prophets.