The Biggest Mind F*CK

[innerlight]

This thread is about serious discussion. I presume certain types will attempt to hijack it if it is given serious thought, but all threads have that risk. I truly want to know if what I was taught as a child, and what is propogated on my TV daily, and what is preached at local churches on weekends and holidays is the ultimate mind fuck. I blame no person for having been conditioned by this system. I do think people need to examine the system and quit condemning the RCC and "not real Christians" and look in the mirror. We live in dangerous times.

As we all are most aware of, in the bible, God tells us that he loved the world and allowed his only son to be sacrificed. Or, in other words, "For God so loved the world, He put a hit out on His son and allowed him to be stabbed to death in a brutal demonic orgy on a cross..." JOHN 3:16

So, Christians are taught that this criminal demonic act of brutality = ultimate love.

My question is: do Christians consciously or subconsciously associate horrible violence with love? The majority seem to be a very angry lot, obsessed with the misery of others and blind to their own hypocrisy. Christianity has a history filled with just as much violence as Islam. Remember, the white man and Spanish brought loving Christianity to the Native Americans and other civilizations. We see the results. The Indians call Christianity THE CROOKED CROSS.

This is what I wondered whilst hiking around the lake today. I feel my mother indoctrinated me in a satanic religion, calling it love. She was/is a very miserable person. I can be a very miserable person. No doubt about it. TBH I don't know that I've seen much unconditional love, other than in pagans and a few Jewish Christians.

Let me say this: one of the wonderful things about the bible are the teachings on forgiveness. So how does one embrace the light of the bible, or any religious book, and overcome the dark? It seems to be one big mind fuck.....

[les_paul_robot]

I truly want to know if what I was taught as a child, and what is propogated on my TV daily, and what is preached at local churches on weekends and holidays is the ultimate mind fuck.Yes. So much so, that to most it makes the truth look ludicrous. That is pretty much The System.

[innerlight]

Yes. So much so, that to most it makes the truth look ludicrous. That is pretty much The System.

that is my thought to lpr. it's no different than being raised hardcore islamic, or anti west, or name your system. we are attacked from day one, and by this time in life, as adults, truth is fiction and fiction is truth. and the mind is totally numb.

[fidokrab]

I believe there is truth in the Bible, but the way it's been structured (and tampered with), it makes it all too confusing to fully understand. But, like any religion, it's based on self image rather the being spiritual.

[innerlight]

I believe there is truth in the Bible, but the way it's been structured (and tampered with), it makes it all too confusing to fully understand. But, like any religion, it's based on self image rather the being spiritual.

that's a good point. the original hebrew and greek texts seem to paint a different picture than the KJV or NIV or the bible the RCC uses.

much confusion and unintended meanings have set in, leading to more literalism than spiritualism?

it just confuses me that a horrible act of violence means complete love. i don't understand that concept.

[kitler]

If man is supposedly made by God and in God's image then we can assume that all the qualities we have are less than or equal to God right?

So how come then that man has both a sense of humour and a sense of proportion whereas God does not?

The Bible is full of all kinds of crap but doesn't have any jokes. Not one. Just endless examples of God acting utterly disproportionatly to any obstacle He encounters.

If people lived like God we would all be bitter paranoid assholes with no friends.

[armoured_amazon]

I believe there is truth in the Bible, but the way it's been structured (and tampered with), it makes it all too confusing to fully understand.

+1

And tptb have bastardised the truth and re-branded it Religion. However, the truth prevails, as it is hidden, and only revealed by the Holy Spirit.

[kitler]

+1

And tptb have bastardised the truth and re-branded it Religion. However, the truth prevails, as it is hidden, and only revealed by the Holy Spirit.

How?

[phildee3]

As we all are most aware of, in the bible, God tells us that he loved the world and allowed his only son to be sacrificed. Or, in other words, "For God so loved the world, He put a hit out on His son and allowed him to be stabbed to death in a brutal demonic orgy on a cross..." JOHN 3:16

So, Christians are taught that this criminal demonic act of brutality = ultimate love.



Hi innerlight,
I have recently been looking at this very question since I saw a Bible tract, put out by evangelical types, which said, "This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins."
Now something didn't sit right with me on this. Like you said, he put a hit out on him. Hardly a loving thing to do!
So I looked it up and found that only the evangelicals own translation (the New International Version) translates this passage to read "...sent his son as an atoning sacrifice..." All the earlier ones say "...to be an atoning sacrifice," which turns out to be closer to the original Greek.
Do you see the difference? In the NIV he actually plans it that way, but you can read the original to mean that he simply allowed it, which is a different thing altogether - especially if you can see "the Father" as Ain Soph rather than Yahweh. Ain Soph allows everything - that's it's nature, it just is. It doesn't love - it is love. The Father didn't kill Jesus - man did.

Another thing that helped me see this is the word "sent" in this passage.
Now, in English, this sounds like a commandment, but the original Greek can be read as "poured forth." This is consistant with emination theology.

Christianity has come to identify the creator, Yahweh, who loves, hates commands, is jealous, etc. with the absolute source, Ain Soph, which simply is. It doesn't do anything because there's nothing to do it to (it being all-that-is).
Yahweh creates but Ain Soph eminates (ie. gives birth to - ring a bell?).

This is ancient teaching which Jesus would have known about.

Yahweh is not who he called "Father," - that is Ain Soph.

[nectars]

Let me say this: one of the wonderful things about the bible are the teachings on forgiveness. So how does one embrace the light of the bible, or any religious book, and overcome the dark? It seems to be one big mind fuck.....

Its pointing to a teaching thats is so simple its almost to good to be true. So simple is it in fact, that the egomind in its effort towards complexity cannot and will not accept it, partially due to its being forced to give up all self claims to its own specialness, superiority and delusions of godhood.

What would happen if you stopped treating it as historically literal, and instead began to see the whole thing as a symbolic allegory playing out within man as he awakes to his relationship as and with his Father through Christ?

Are the characters really characters or qualities?

To whom is each character refering to when stating "I Am....etc"?

What is Christ?

What is the Son?

What are the dead and living(in reference to the Bibles useage)?

As Christ, what is "the the hope of glory"? Not just what is it, but how does one exersize application of it and what are the requirements to do so?

[orlibonurb]

So, Christians are taught that this criminal demonic act of brutality = ultimate love


That exact same demonic act of brutality which He suffered was for you.

So you could live and have eternal life. That is, indeed, the most profound act of love you can think of.

Imagine yourself suffering the most horrendous life so a friend of yours does not die and tell me if that isn't love.


Romans {5:8} But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Jesus is alive, coming back as the Conquering Lion and He does love you very much, no matter what. Don't look at people, we all live in this fallen sinful nature. Look at Him, He will not disappoint you.

[kitler]

Jesus is alive, coming back as the Conquering Lion and He does love you very much, no matter what. Don't look at people, we all live in this fallen sinful nature. Look at Him, He will not disappoint you.

http://goatfucker.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/jesus-gun-owner.jpg

[innerlight]

Its pointing to a teaching thats is so simple its almost to good to be true. So simple is it in fact, that the egomind in its effort towards complexity cannot and will not accept it, partially due to its being forced to give up all self claims to its own specialness, superiority and delusions of godhood.

What would happen if you stopped treating it as historically literal, and instead began to see the whole thing as a symbolic allegory playing out within man as he awakes to his relationship as and with his Father through Christ?

Are the characters really characters or qualities?

To whom is each character refering to when stating "I Am....etc"?

What is Christ?

What is the Son?

What are the dead and living(in reference to the Bibles useage)?

As Christ, what is "the the hope of glory"? Not just what is it, but how does one exersize application of it and what are the requirements to do so?

so it is simple allegory? if so, that makes sense. complete sense.

in the literal, it makes no sense. it is a complete contradiction, IMO.

as you understand it Nectars, what is "the hope of glory"?

thank you everyone who has responded. a controversial thread can be an enlightening thread if all pitch in.

[innerlight]

That exact same demonic act of brutality which He suffered was for you.

So you could live and have eternal life. That is, indeed, the most profound act of love you can think of.

Imagine yourself suffering the most horrendous life so a friend of yours does not die and tell me if that isn't love.


Romans {5:8} But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Jesus is alive, coming back as the Conquering Lion and He does love you very much, no matter what. Don't look at people, we all live in this fallen sinful nature. Look at Him, He will not disappoint you.

Isaiah 45:7 "I Yahweh/God/Jehova create good and evil. I do these things."

so God assassinated his son because God created evil? again, that makes no sense. Why would God kill his son for what God created?

[nectars]

so it is simple allegory? if so, that makes sense. complete sense.

in the literal, it makes no sense. it is a complete contradiction, IMO.

For myself I see it as simple allegory in which the awakening of man becomes intensely clear as does the entire symbolic meaning behind it. I will say though that I seem very much in a minority on here in accepting it as such.

as you understand it Nectars, what is "the hope of glory"?

To keep the context...

"...to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: whom we proclaim, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ; whereunto I labor also, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. Christ in you, the hope of glory." - Colossians 1:27-29

Our ability to rise in consciousness through Christ to a higher level. The identity of Christ in us is closer than close and more intimate than breath; as is the identity of the Father -The One True Living God.

[elirien]

This thread is about serious discussion. I presume certain types will attempt to hijack it if it is given serious thought, but all threads have that risk. I truly want to know if what I was taught as a child, and what is propogated on my TV daily, and what is preached at local churches on weekends and holidays is the ultimate mind fuck. I blame no person for having been conditioned by this system. I do think people need to examine the system and quit condemning the RCC and "not real Christians" and look in the mirror. We live in dangerous times.

As we all are most aware of, in the bible, God tells us that he loved the world and allowed his only son to be sacrificed. Or, in other words, "For God so loved the world, He put a hit out on His son and allowed him to be stabbed to death in a brutal demonic orgy on a cross..." JOHN 3:16

So, Christians are taught that this criminal demonic act of brutality = ultimate love.

My question is: do Christians consciously or subconsciously associate horrible violence with love? The majority seem to be a very angry lot, obsessed with the misery of others and blind to their own hypocrisy. Christianity has a history filled with just as much violence as Islam. Remember, the white man and Spanish brought loving Christianity to the Native Americans and other civilizations. We see the results. The Indians call Christianity THE CROOKED CROSS.

This is what I wondered whilst hiking around the lake today. I feel my mother indoctrinated me in a satanic religion, calling it love. She was/is a very miserable person. I can be a very miserable person. No doubt about it. TBH I don't know that I've seen much unconditional love, other than in pagans and a few Jewish Christians.

Let me say this: one of the wonderful things about the bible are the teachings on forgiveness. So how does one embrace the light of the bible, or any religious book, and overcome the dark? It seems to be one big mind fuck.....

First of all it is good that this is a mindf*ck. Don't be the mind and no problem :D Let it get f*cked by itself.

Secondly, as you can see quite clearly that those are not Jesus' words but John's words. No one got up to the cross and asked the one that was hanging. Also, interestingly enough if we take the english translation then how could God ask God why he was forsook by himself? One more pointer.

As you've put it this criminal act of brutality was done in love but love of what? Those that did it, did it for love of their delusion "the world" and God did it so "free will" (again delusion) was not damaged. What else would be the point of all this theater? If we take the one on the cross as Jesus or God what bad could a crucifixion do to a being that let go is eternal life gives eternal life?

[octopusrex]

This thread is about serious discussion. I presume certain types will attempt to hijack it if it is given serious thought, but all threads have that risk. I truly want to know if what I was taught as a child, and what is propogated on my TV daily, and what is preached at local churches on weekends and holidays is the ultimate mind fuck. I blame no person for having been conditioned by this system. I do think people need to examine the system and quit condemning the RCC and "not real Christians" and look in the mirror. We live in dangerous times.

As we all are most aware of, in the bible, God tells us that he loved the world and allowed his only son to be sacrificed. Or, in other words, "For God so loved the world, He put a hit out on His son and allowed him to be stabbed to death in a brutal demonic orgy on a cross..." JOHN 3:16

So, Christians are taught that this criminal demonic act of brutality = ultimate love.

My question is: do Christians consciously or subconsciously associate horrible violence with love? The majority seem to be a very angry lot, obsessed with the misery of others and blind to their own hypocrisy. Christianity has a history filled with just as much violence as Islam. Remember, the white man and Spanish brought loving Christianity to the Native Americans and other civilizations. We see the results. The Indians call Christianity THE CROOKED CROSS.

This is what I wondered whilst hiking around the lake today. I feel my mother indoctrinated me in a satanic religion, calling it love. She was/is a very miserable person. I can be a very miserable person. No doubt about it. TBH I don't know that I've seen much unconditional love, other than in pagans and a few Jewish Christians.

Let me say this: one of the wonderful things about the bible are the teachings on forgiveness. So how does one embrace the light of the bible, or any religious book, and overcome the dark? It seems to be one big mind fuck.....

You hit the nail on the head. My biggest question for Jesus if I ever meet him is this: what about the sacrifice Judas made for you?;)

[nectars]

My biggest question for Jesus if I ever meet him is this: what about the sacrifice Judas made for you?;)

Judas is a peephole, window or door. The doorway Jesus took through the Christ to his Father as the Son of Man.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Judas

Ju·das (jds)
n.
1. One who betrays another under the guise of friendship.
2. judas A one-way peephole in a door.

Basic source, but what one are you supposed to take notice of?

http://www.circumcision.net/Heb_Names_JK.htm

Judah From the Hebrew, meaning “praise.” An Anglicized form of Yehuda.

יהודה(clickable) (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%93%D7%94)