For Those Who Believe The Bible Is Corrupt

[biblegirl]

What do you think about books that were not included in the Bible? Like Josephus, Enoch, Jasher, Qu'ran, etc.? Do you believe these are also corrupt and/or written by illuminati people?

Also: are you openminded to the idea that it is not the Bible itself which is corrupt but rather the way in which it is portrayed?

Thanks :).

[the perfect one]

I have often wondered if the Bible had certain things left out or replaced and added . If you look at Revelations it says "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this Book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this Book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the Book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this Book" Revelation 22:18-19.

There's a reason this was put in. I believe it is because ,there is a real chance this would happen and and even more real chance that it did happen.Which parts were added or taken away from-we may never know,that's if it did happen.IMHO

[dedicate]

A book can be considered "currupted" as soon as it is translated... So, if those other texts have been translated, they have been currupted. Sorry to blow your theory about the Bible out the window, perfectone. The Bible, even Revelation, has been tampered with... and a sorry fate awaits those who did/do/or will? I don't know. Depends on how you look at it, I guess.

[loveisthelaw]

The message of the great prophets (peace be on them all) was perfect and flawless, this is the true Bible - this book being passed off as Gods, being sold and passed around, this is not what these prophets taught, it may contain original messages but it is not the Torah (book of Moses), the Zabur (Psalms of David), or the Engeel (book of Isa).

"The verse in the Bible which is closest to "Trinity" and is often quoted by Christian missionaries is the first Epistle of John, chapter 5 verse no 7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one."
In the Revised Standard Version of the Bible (R.S.V.) revised by 32 Christian scholars of the highest eminence backed by 50 different co-operating denominations, this verse which is the keystone of the Christian faith has been removed as an interpolation, as a fabrication and as a concoction. It has not been expunged from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible by the Muslims or by non-Christian scholars, but by 32 Christian scholars of the highest eminence backed by 50 different cooperating denominations as an interpolation, as a concoction and as a fabrication because this verse does not exist in the original manuscript. We Muslims must congratulate the galaxy of D.D.’s (Doctors of Divinity) who have been honest enough to eliminate another lie from the English R.S.V. Bible, thus bringing it closer to the teachings of Islam and the Glorious Qur’an."

http://www.openchoice.org/cqcogic.html

[the perfect one]

A book can be considered "currupted" as soon as it is translated... So, if those other texts have been translated, they have been currupted. Sorry to blow your theory about the Bible out the window, perfectone. The Bible, even Revelation, has been tampered with... and a sorry fate awaits those who did/do/or will? I don't know. Depends on how you look at it, I guess.

I'm not sure but it would seem you agree with me in part,so I'm not sure how that blows my theory out of the water,cuz it sounds like you agree with me. IMHO-:)

[zetetic0void]

When I look into the early formation of the Church, it seems that Emperor Constantine was the major turning point. Before then there were many various Christ followers using all sorts of copies of texts.

So as the official Christianity became the norm and others swept away and certain texts were purposefully banned and destroyed (or seemingly destroyed - such as the Gospel of Thomas and others at Nag Hammadi in Egypt in 1945) I see a social control by a powerful institution backed by an Empire (actually the one which killed Christ in the first place (unless he survived the attempt and made it to Kashmir like some documentaries suggest).


So these are some of the the issues I see

1... the choice of books to be put into the official New Testament and why others were suppressed and destroyed (or an attempt made to)

2... translations from other languages. Such ideas as a translation from Greek text where "a" son of "God" is made into "The" son of "God" are things to look into. Many other translation affects injected into the meanings

3... the fact that even the oldest texts are all copies of many levels of copies. So when hand copying from copies of copies of copies of copies happens, there can be purposeful or accidental alteration.

4... Some will say things like the Qu'ran are 100% accurate words of Mohamed but when you look into it, you'll find information where many texts were written down from memory and this was after some important battle (Battle of Yamama) killed a lot of people who had memorized the words. So really how accurate is it to say that the Qu'ran is 100% accurate to the original words? It's something people would have to investigate on their own ... hopefully without bias either way.


Any ancient could have been copied a huge number of times. So there can be alterations over time in lots of things. Even then, it can be biased by a particular culture's beliefs about Reality.



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I would say all people labelled prophets, sages, Buddhas basically had the mystical experience of experiencing direct union with all of Reality. To then try to put this into human text and language is impossible. So even at the root of this attempt, there is going to be bias, misunderstanding and mistranslation by people who never had that experience.

[the perfect one]

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I would say all people labelled prophets, sages, Buddhas basically had the mystical experience of experiencing direct union with all of Reality. To then try to put this into human text and language is impossible. So even at the root of this attempt, there is going to be bias, misunderstanding and mistranslation by people who never had that experience.


Well put.

[nickos]

...and it all stopped when jesus was curcified,or so it seems to me!

i've never read the bible but there were the odd religiously themed assemblies at school, so ipicked up a little,and christmas,well who doesn't know about christmas?!? however when i myself was anointed as the 'new messiah' i questioned all of it.

i was anointed about 3months before my 19th birthday by a bright flash(which left me blind for a short while)followed by a small number of shooting stars-the very second i had said to my friend "funny if theres a shooting star tonight...". looking back i remembered a BBC TV documentary which featured a computergenerated reconstruction of His face.The Tmes did a story about it on 27/3/01 on page 3.my dad,who knew nothing about my odd feelings,even said it looked like me!THAT was about 4-5months aftery the very first 'odd occurence' which was when i heard a voice(my first)say 'you are the new messiah'!

so.do you thnk that 'the messiah' would, or might, be anointed in this way?

for the 6months before i was hospitalized ip heard voices telling me about my birth(homebirth,north london council flat)-i was obviously deluded, but WHAT IF it was jesus' VOICES that told him he was born in a stable? what if it actually means 'conceived'?and maybe moses was an orphan?

the bible seems to have told the story with riddles,metaphor,and 'clues',i.e. another voice said "whats in a name?"...judas, like judaism which was the OLD religion at the time,i.e.the one jesus was trying to replace according to his god's 'will'.like me!

[biblegirl]

Thank you very much for your replies everyone :).

I understand that the translation itself already takes away from the original text, and in this way it could be considered corrupt. In the OP I am mainly referring to the common idea on this board that the Bible was intentionally altered or even written by the elite to keep people in "ignorance". Sometimes I will just pop in to a thread to say something unrelated, but because of my username other posters feel the liberty to tell me that the Bible is full of lies, fiction :p. I am wondering where the basis of this idea comes from (David Icke? Zeitgeist?) and what about the other spiritual texts which were not included in the Bible. Are these also considered fiction and lies, and why?

I wonder if the people here with resentment against the Bible may just be repeating stuff from anti-God propaganda or from bad experiences in religion, neither of which are the Bible itself. Before I read the Quran, the only exposure I'd had to it was propaganda that it was about suicide bombers and wife beating. Well, I have yet to see anything even resembling that, yet people still go on and on about it like it's the whole point of the Quran. Just like people say the Bible is about killing gay people and a murderous God. That's a pretty ignorant opinion of a book which is really about spiritual progress and everlasting life.

So, if there are parts of the Bible that were intentionally made to deceive people, which parts are they? And do the other spiritual texts include these as well?

[loveisthelaw]

So, if there are parts of the Bible that were intentionally made to deceive people, which parts are they? And do the other spiritual texts include these as well?

See my post above - a classic example.

[biblegirl]

See my post above - a classic example.

thank you :)

then the conclusion on this verse is that it was fabricated and added to the text, but it is a lie? do you know what the motivation for that would be?

i have never seen the biblical support for the trinity (despite being raised to believe it), but i have seen support for oneness concepts

the most glaring problem with the trinity imo would be the verse which says, no man knows that day nor hour, not even the angels in heaven or the son, but the Father only

[thereisonlywe]

thank you :)

then the conclusion on this verse is that it was fabricated and added to the text, but it is a lie? do you know what the motivation for that would be?

i have never seen the biblical support for the trinity (despite being raised to believe it), but i have seen support for oneness concepts

the most glaring problem with the trinity imo would be the verse which says, no man knows that day nor hour, not even the angels in heaven or the son, but the Father only

Hi biblegirl,

Verses that are highly altered in bible are generally the ones that allow people make profit. Like the removal of forbiddance of eating pork. It is also possible that spiritual practice was not included in the bible intentionally, for it helped priests and the church raise money by forgivance of sins (!) So, if you follow this idea you will easily spot them. Most verses regarding personal choices should not have been altered in that sense.

It is exactly the same issue with hadiths in Muslim world. Hadiths that help people make profit are the made-up ones. Since people couldn't alter Quran (there were many people who memorized it and many written copies), they had to invent hadiths.

Btw, someone told Quran could have been changed too. Yes, but in Quran Allah says it is gonna be protected. This wasn't the case was earlier books. That is the very reason there is no other book. When you think about it, 21th century-7th century is a huge timeline.

Love&Peace

[biblegirl]

bump :)

[elirien]

Well, thereisonlywe said it beautifully. Nothing much to add besides that interpretation and understanding goes a long way. The bible for instance is a book that is not to be understood literally because as all multi-dimensional writings it appeals to every level. As such it reflects the condition of the reader quite beautifully.

What seems the most common problem is misinterpretation and mistranslation. The rule of discernment is this mostly. What does it appeal or vibrate to? The "mental I", "the physical I", "the emotional I" or is it impersonal as such absolute truth. This is the trinity by the way which is completely illusory. It is separation from the one. It is manifestation. It is duality coming out from oneness. That is also why it has been said in the Qur'an "don't say trinity- it will be better for you". Even though we say it is illusory it appears still very real to our dual perception. It is the same thing with the sentence "I and the father are one". This doesn't mean the separate thing and another separate thing is one. It means they are one like a bubble in a lake or a wave in the ocean.

The Bible is the history of consciousness/oneness. For a healthy approach it has to be read as any scripture or mystical teaching from the reference point of the one, not from a separate individuation.

[innerlight]

I read once that there are two opposing voices in the bible, the Christ of the new testament, and the satanic YHWH/Jehova of the old. i personally cannot read much of the OT because of the violence and prejudice programmed in to it.

the NT, on the other hand, I find esoteric and full of wisdom.

I also agree with the Essenes that the apostle Paul was a teacher of darkness, the true founder of Christianity as we know it.

just my opinions.

[relentless]

What do you think about books that were not included in the Bible? Like Josephus, Enoch, Jasher, Qu'ran, etc.? Do you believe these are also corrupt and/or written by illuminati people?

Also: are you openminded to the idea that it is not the Bible itself which is corrupt but rather the way in which it is portrayed?

Thanks :).

Also Thomas and James...

[biblegirl]

thank you everyone for the replies :)

do you know:

where do people get the idea that Christ is fictional? what would the illuminati have to gain from making him up? why compose a spiritually advanced text if the idea was to keep people in ignorance? i can see what they would push RELIGION, that is not what i'm asking about...i am wondering if all this stuff about the Bible and Christ being fake is disinfo and distractions to keep people from discovering what is really in there, but i still am curious as to where this originated from and why people feel so strongly about it

[boots]

thank you everyone for the replies :)

do you know:

where do people get the idea that Christ is fictional? what would the illuminati have to gain from making him up? why compose a spiritually advanced text if the idea was to keep people in ignorance? i can see what they would push RELIGION, that is not what i'm asking about...i am wondering if all this stuff about the Bible and Christ being fake is disinfo and distractions to keep people from discovering what is really in there, but i still am curious as to where this originated from and why people feel so strongly about it

IMO there are different factions within the Illuminati those who like to propagate the disinfo that Jesus never existed.

It has been said that others, within the Illuminati read the bible and study it. That could be like the Masons, who once they reach the very high degree's, even beyond the 33 rd, Jesus and god are said to be a fable. The idea being that there is the "grand Architecture of the universe". Their "god" which is the god of darkness. It's a form of mind control.

Someone once sent me a power point Pres. Which showed that the Red Sea crossing was a reality, with factual evidence. It's true imo.

Have you seen the Vid Ring of Power? It's long but excellent evidence that Jesus was of royal blood from Egypt He was a Pharaoh. He was whisked away to Tibet and studied Buddhism.

1. The Ring of Power - Present Past [part 1 of 29] - YouTube

It all tie's in.


PS : There is a book called, I damn well forget the exact title, but something along the lines of "Jesus the Aquarius years".

Excellent book.:)


.

[omnisense]

All the stuff about Jesus being our savior, and the only way to heaven is through him = corrupt IMHO.

Also all the junk about being a sinner = blatant lie to make us think we are not powerful beings. And gives us a cop out when doing bad things.

The stuff about gay interactions being bad are also stupid. I heard it was translated FROM sexual ASSAULT, INTO gay interactions. I can't say its true as I didn't research it myself but it seemed legit.

The whole religious morons against gay marriage annoys me. Not that I'm gay or ever want to be married... All the snooty idiots with judgemental bumper stickers can eat it. lol. Why would God make gays, in their reality??? I don't get it.

All in all theres some decent stuff in the bible... But I tend to think pretty much all(ALL i've heard so far) of it is hardcoded into my mind.. Kind of like the art of war, it taught me nothing. I knew it all already. Like be nice to your neighbor. Don't be judgemental(although I tend to get a little judgemental with judgemental religious idiots... lol). Don't steal(unless you have to survive etc).

As for the old testament its archaic and garbage. You can sell your daughter to slavery and thats fine in it... You cannot approach the altar of God without perfect vision, so people with poor eyesight SORRY GOD DOESNT LOVE YOU. God likes the smell of burning cow flesh.... mmhmmmm. lol.

As for the quran, I dont like the infidel garbage. Which I am told by my ET contacts was put there by reptilians who planned on making religious people fight for ages... Fuel for war. Plus the whole idea of a heaven waiting for people who do Gods will(aka suicide bomb etc), makes people more likely to risk their lives for some idiotic religious idealogy...

From a very young age I identified that most of the people who valued the bible were very blind to whats around here. They were such hypocrites I rejected christianity(which was my parents religion). There is a middle ground which I have found.

All that said, the historic value of the bible exists. If you can desypher the metaphors. Read the old stories with imagination(like ET involvement), and it gets more interesting. :)

[rodin]

All the stuff about Jesus being our savior, and the only way to heaven is through him = corrupt IMHO.

Also all the junk about being a sinner = blatant lie to make us think we are not powerful beings. And gives us a cop out when doing bad things.

The stuff about gay interactions being bad are also stupid. I heard it was translated FROM sexual ASSAULT, INTO gay interactions. I can't say its true as I didn't research it myself but it seemed legit.

The whole religious morons against gay marriage annoys me. Not that I'm gay or ever want to be married... All the snooty idiots with judgemental bumper stickers can eat it. lol. Why would God make gays, in their reality??? I don't get it.

All in all theres some decent stuff in the bible... But I tend to think pretty much all(ALL i've heard so far) of it is hardcoded into my mind.. Kind of like the art of war, it taught me nothing. I knew it all already. Like be nice to your neighbor. Don't be judgemental(although I tend to get a little judgemental with judgemental religious idiots... lol). Don't steal(unless you have to survive etc).

As for the old testament its archaic and garbage. You can sell your daughter to slavery and thats fine in it... You cannot approach the altar of God without perfect vision, so people with poor eyesight SORRY GOD DOESNT LOVE YOU. God likes the smell of burning cow flesh.... mmhmmmm. lol.

As for the quran, I dont like the infidel garbage. Which I am told by my ET contacts was put there by reptilians who planned on making religious people fight for ages... Fuel for war. Plus the whole idea of a heaven waiting for people who do Gods will(aka suicide bomb etc), makes people more likely to risk their lives for some idiotic religious idealogy...

From a very young age I identified that most of the people who valued the bible were very blind to whats around here. They were such hypocrites I rejected christianity(which was my parents religion). There is a middle ground which I have found.

All that said, the historic value of the bible exists. If you can desypher the metaphors. Read the old stories with imagination(like ET involvement), and it gets more interesting. :)

Omninonsense I am afraid

Forgiveness is key and it works both ways. Also you must forgive yourself and move on. Bitter and twisted is the alternative.

Oh and don't think the Kol Nidre is along these lines - it is the opposite from repentance - it is a licence to kill.

[rodin]

OK Biblegirl I'll bite

I have seen attempts to place the OT before the NT, IMO it was written after the NT to Judaify Christianity. The Pharisees took over Christian establishment once they had full control of Rome (as they do most of the World now) and invented Catholicism. I think they named the Pontiff after Popaea - wife of Nero, arch persecutor of Christians. This coup I think marks the end of the Roman Empire and the beginning of the Invisible Empire - my term by the way recently appropriated buy the Jew Bermas in a gatekeeping operation much lauded by the duped on this site and elsewhere.

I could construct an argument as to why the Pharisees would invent Jesus. It would go along the same lines as why the Party invented Emmanuel Goldstein, or the Bush administration Al Qaeda.

Jews hate Jesus. Remember the party encouraged the proles to hate Goldstein on a regular basis...

The teachings of the Christ are so directly corrosive to Satanic Pharisee power it seems unlikely they would create such a powerful fake enemy. Nevertheless it must be remembered that it was Herzl who said antisemitism was essential to provoke and maintain a siege mentality among the invisible empire of Jews.

Of more importance to me are the integrity of the moral teachings of Jesus than whether he actually was God in the flesh. I refuse to believe anything unless I have proof. The truth in Jesus' words is certain however.

Perhaps one day I will receive 'insight' - but then don't LSD and DMT users get similar? Altered states all....

[omnisense]

Omninonsense I am afraid

Forgiveness is key and it works both ways. Also you must forgive yourself and move on. Bitter and twisted is the alternative.

Oh and don't think the Kol Nidre is along these lines - it is the opposite from repentance - it is a licence to kill.
What's nonsense in my post? I don't get it. You do have traits shown to me numerous times by religious people. Very judgemental and quick to attack anyone who thinks different than you. And full of self proclaimed 'truth' high horsey philosophies. Bitter and twisted is the alternative to your view? riiiight.

Aaaaand Forgive myself for what? I get that I hit a nerve of your belief system in my post due to your attack.. But what exactly I'm not sure as you followed your insult with drivel that has nothing to do with my post.

Jews hate Jesus.

lol. And you call my post nonsense..... No Jew I have ever talked to hated Jesus.

[rodin]

What's nonsense in my post? I don't get it. You do have traits shown to me numerous times by religious people. Very judgemental and quick to attack anyone who thinks different than you. And full of self proclaimed 'truth' high horsey philosophies. Bitter and twisted is the alternative to your view? riiiight.

Aaaaand Forgive myself for what? I get that I hit a nerve of your belief system in my post due to your attack.. But what exactly I'm not sure as you followed your insult with drivel that has nothing to do with my post.



lol. And you call my post nonsense..... No Jew I have ever talked to hated Jesus.

Peter Schäfer's Jesus in the Talmud is already being picked up by anti-Semitic Web sites as proof that Judaism harbors blasphemous beliefs about Jesus. Yet, it is an important book by a meticulous scholar, the head of Princeton's Judaic studies program. It is also a truthful book and should be received in a spirit of truthfulness.

(David Klinghoffer Hadassah Magazine )

Amazon.com: Jesus in the Talmud (9780691129266): Peter Schäfer: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VGqntLoDL.@@AMEPARAM@@51VGqntLoDL

A senior American cardinal has asked Jews to reconsider descriptions of Jesus as a "bastard" in exchange for a softening of traditional Catholic prayers calling for Jews to be converted to Christianity.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1565317/Cardinal-calls-for-textual-revision.html

...Ah a quid pro quo?

What the Talmud Really Says About Jesus

“What exactly is so scandalous? How about Jesus punished in Hell for eternity by being made to sit in a cauldron of boiling excrement? That image appears in early manuscripts of the Babylonian Talmud, as does a brief account of Jesus’ trial and execution—not by the Romans but by the Jewish high court, the Sanhedrin.”

http://www.davidduke.com/general/what-the-talmud-really-says-about-jesus_2196.html

Quite likely many ordinary Jews care or know little about this, but the elite certainly do. A central tenet of the Jewish movement called Communism was to destroy Christianity. The Grand Sanhedrin had already established and/or infiltrated all Christian organisations, therefore it could be attacked from within and without.

In the case of the Russian orthodox church it was from without - churches were ransacked and destroyed. In the case of the Catholic church it was from within - I think the Catholic church was an antiChrist creation of the Pharisees from the get go. Recently between Purim and Easter we have co-ordinated world-wide revelations of 20-30 yo child abuse in Jewish run media.

I could go on with examples of Orthodox Jews spitting on Christians in Israel, or the true feelings of settlers towards Jesus. No wonder they feel this way - after all he called them 'The Synagogue of Satan'.

Of course you can attack Jesus as an antisemite and ban the New Testament as hate literature. But right now is the establishment ready to make such an overt step against the core belief system of the nations it has infiltrated? Only after it has eliminated nearly all support for for the Church. Something in which it will likely succeed, as they have seen to it that the 'Church' is fatally flawed.

Christ on the other hand is perfect.

The above partly my opinion based on documented evidence

[biblegirl]

thank you Rodin :)

I'm trying to understand how people who follow the Jesus didn't exist and the Bible is made up mentality, explain the ancient books that were never included in the Bible that most people don't even know about. Like Josephus written 2000 years ago. I have not had the opportunity to read it yet, but here is a review on it from Amazon:

The value of this volume is threefold, and all are noteworthy.
First, Josephus' account of the historical events and people in Judea during the 1st century A.D. has no peer. Josephus' facts are the most reliable from any secular historian during that period.

Second, Josephus' histories corroborate the Biblical accounts. Josephus, a Jewish general captured by the Romans during Judea's struggle for independence which ended in 70 A.D., mentions John the Baptist, the Herodian rulers of Judea, Pontius Pilate, and Jesus Christ. Josephus "fills in the blanks" by supplying detail not mentioned by the New Testament authors and gives flesh, bone (and blood) to the characters the Gospels and the Book of Acts relates.

Third, the translator, William Whiston, adds insightful and invaluable footnotes throughout the text. Whiston corrects Josephus where necessary or gives the reader more detail in support of Josephus' assertions by reference to other primary sources, many of which are no longer extant. Where Josephus refers to Jewish customs, Whiston explains them for the Gentile reader.

Thus, this book is best used as a reference book, though reading through Josephus' complete works is fruitful. The book is fairly compact for one containing 1000 pages. The pages are thin, which allows for its compact size, but which causes any highlighting or margin notes to "bleed" through to the reverse side of the page. The font size is 10 point, which makes for comfortable reading on the eyes. The appendices contain very helpful charts, including one which lists those excerpts from the Bible which run parallel to Josephus' chapters.

This is a great source book for any historian or Biblical scholar.

So....if the character of Jesus Christ was made up by ___(?) to control people and stuff, who wrote the book of Josephus and why?

I don't know much about the gnostic gospels yet but they look very interesting.

[clachan]

thank you everyone for the replies :)

do you know:

where do people get the idea that Christ is fictional? what would the illuminati have to gain from making him up? why compose a spiritually advanced text if the idea was to keep people in ignorance? i can see what they would push RELIGION, that is not what i'm asking about...i am wondering if all this stuff about the Bible and Christ being fake is disinfo and distractions to keep people from discovering what is really in there, but i still am curious as to where this originated from and why people feel so strongly about it

Maybe because the people calling Christians sheeple are really sheeple who aren,t cute enough to realise that they are just blind followers of an idea by some bigheaded zeigeist humanist with a small dose of charisma and some half baked ideas that sound cool.

Its all about human ego IMO,and people will defend any thing that is a threat to "their" ideas.
Patriotism is an example of what Im trying to convey.

[rodin]

thank you Rodin :)

I'm trying to understand how people who follow the Jesus didn't exist and the Bible is made up mentality, explain the ancient books that were never included in the Bible that most people don't even know about. Like Josephus written 2000 years ago. I have not had the opportunity to read it yet, but here is a review on it from Amazon:



So....if the character of Jesus Christ was made up by ___(?) to control people and stuff, who wrote the book of Josephus and why?

I don't know much about the gnostic gospels yet but they look very interesting.

I think the gnostic gospels might be another hoax. Dead Sea Scrolls bear all the hallmarks of one, Hammadi I would not trust without deep digging. Someone even brought up the Rosetta stone as a possible fake. That I don't know anything about