Dealing with trolls and shills on this folder

[johngr]

I am on the land in a place dba Sweden, so I'm not sure how much FOTL applies here and haven't bothered researching it.

But it seems to me that every US/UK/canada/australia FOTL forum attracts its share of busybody analogues of nanny-stater eurocrats who are with limited exceptions about as welcome and equally annoying as gnats at a picnic. It has been great to see someone with a great mind like (that girl-genuis whose alias I forget from suijuris) set the retards, who have all the civility of randiites straight at quatloos about the fed, money and mortgage consideration and Shoonra's contributions to honing the legal arguments (he wouldn't touch the moral arguments with the threads I started there) but in general, they contribute less than nothing to the discussion.

How do we deal with them?

[asky]

You could try reasoned argument and rational debate.

asky

[rob menard]

Obliquely.

Imagine a sharpening stone and a sharp knife. The knife will never cut the stone and trying will only dull it. But those greasy, slippery, abrasive dull stone headed people are good for honing and sharpening your 'knife'.

When used properly, you both get a little worn down, but you are now much sharper, and they are still just the same slippery, oily, abrasive dull people they always were.

They are a tool.
You are a weapon.

Act.

[johngr]

It was easier at suijuris because unlike here, the mods wouldn't put up with anyone anti who only criticised in a general way and didn't have solid legal arguments to back himself up for very long.

[johngr]

You could try reasoned argument and rational debate.

asky

Troll or shill?

[asky]

Didnt you read my post Rob?
I said rational reasoned debate not schoolyard name calling

asky

[johngr]

Didnt you read my post Rob?
I said rational reasoned debate not schoolyard name calling

asky

Deductive reasoning (see the thread title).

[johngr]

Obliquely.

Imagine a sharpening stone and a sharp knife. The knife will never cut the stone and trying will only dull it. But those greasy, slippery, abrasive dull stone headed people are good for honing and sharpening your 'knife'.

When used properly, you both get a little worn down, but you are now much sharper, and they are still just the same slippery, oily, abrasive dull people they always were.

They are a tool.
You are a weapon.

Act.

Nice metaphor and I agree to an extent.

But I have another one (and I might could be called such for even bringing the subject up): time sink.

[johngr]

It seems, with almost no exceptions, that the naysayers don't merely proffer a legal argument, but a moral one as well. They morally justify the very same activities (in a purely factual sense) of people making scribbles and the five-pointed star-wearing goons who follow their orders against people who have not been proven to have harmed anyone that they would decry if anyone else does the same thing.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[angelthecat]

I am on the land in a place dba Sweden, so I'm not sure how much FOTL applies here and haven't bothered researching it.

But it seems to me that every US/UK/canada/australia FOTL forum attracts its share of busybody analogues of nanny-stater eurocrats who are with limited exceptions about as welcome and equally annoying as gnats at a picnic. It has been great to see someone with a great mind like (that girl-genuis whose alias I forget from suijuris) set the retards, who have all the civility of randiites straight at quatloos about the fed, money and mortgage consideration and Shoonra's contributions to honing the legal arguments (he wouldn't touch the moral arguments with the threads I started there) but in general, they contribute less than nothing to the discussion.

How do we deal with them?

the fact of their presence leads to deeper study to rebut them, if they are really trying to destroy the movement they are going the wrong way about it, by spending time and effort on something that they consider ineffective, hence reverse psychology sets in and is winning the day, They have little morals and even less brains.I would have never studied Bible quotes or Law maxims if it was not because of them. And my motivation is even greater.
I like trolls and shrills they make me smile :D

[fotheringsmirth]

the fact of their presence leads to deeper study to rebut them, if they are really trying to destroy the movement they are going the wrong way about it, by spending time and effort on something that they consider ineffective, hence reverse psychology sets in and is winning the day, They have little morals and even less brains.I would have never studied Bible quotes or Law maxims if it was not because of them. And my motivation is even greater.
I like trolls and shrills they make me smile :D

1) Courts don't use The Bible in their judgments, so it's maybe a good book to use for your own personal morality, but it's meaningless for legal study.

2) Maxims might be a bit more relevant, but I don't think you mean the maxims of equity, and even then simply having them on their own is a bit like blowing out some candles and saying you've eaten an entire factory full of cakes.

[rob menard]

Didnt you read my post Rob?
I said rational reasoned debate not schoolyard name calling

asky

As a matter of fact, I did not. At least not until after I had posted. We were penning our responses simultaneously.

[prajna]

Sometimes a thread just seems to blossom into something almost poetic. This one has, from the title on down.

Class, my friends.

:)

[platform7]

asky Quote You could try reasoned argument and rational debate.

asky

When I sent you a very polite PM regarding me knowing Girlgye you suggested because I know her I was "another nutter" or words to that effect.

As an intelligent man I hardly think that was a reasoned argument considering you have never met me!

As always asky I am wishing you love peace and best wishes :)

[heebeejeebee]

I find the ignore function on this forum very effective.....:)

[mark1963]

I had them on the ignore button - but thinking about what Rob said about them honing my skills. Great, they're off now.

Oh, and jasmine75 - number_6 you're off on tpuc now as well.

[number_6]

I had them on the ignore button - but thinking about what Rob said about them honing my skills. Great, they're off now.

Oh, and jasmine75 - number_6 you're off on tpuc now as well.

Careful.
I may post something that you agree with.

[mark1963]

Careful.
I may post something that you agree with.

I'm not sure agree is the right word but you have me thinking and analysing data.

[number_6]

I'm not sure agree is the right word
You'll come round when you open your mind.

[wolfhead]

Obliquely.

Imagine a sharpening stone and a sharp knife. The knife will never cut the stone and trying will only dull it. But those greasy, slippery, abrasive dull stone headed people are good for honing and sharpening your 'knife'.

When used properly, you both get a little worn down, but you are now much sharper, and they are still just the same slippery, oily, abrasive dull people they always were.

They are a tool.
You are a weapon.

Act.

Yep, I like that!

[herald holmes]

You'll come round when you open your mind.

Welcome to the world of #6 where open means shut and you must do what you are told without question to who gives the order nor just compensation.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[platform7]

HH quote Welcome to the world of #6 where open means shut and you must do what you are told without question to who gives the order nor just compensation.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Sorry HH to be fair to number 6 he asks relevent questions and when I pm him recently he was very polite and unless you can show me different imho he does not abuse forum members.

I am not looking to argue with you HH and it is only my humble opinion
I love both of you with all my soul :)

[platform7]

HH Here is an example of number_6 asking a perfectly reasonable question from the fee schedule thread

Hows this going jackieg?

Have you collected this fee schedule?

Now I think this is perfectly reasonable there is no malice and no "slagging" off jackieg either.

And no I am not a relation of number_6 or even know him but if he ever fancys a pint, walk talk etc I would be quite willing to meet him as I would with your good self

Like I said best wishes and love to both of you :)

[herald holmes]

HH quote Welcome to the world of #6 where open means shut and you must do what you are told without question to who gives the order nor just compensation.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Sorry HH to be fair to number 6 he asks relevent questions and when I pm him recently he was very polite and unless you can show me different imho he does not abuse forum members.

I am not looking to argue with you HH and it is only my humble opinion
I love both of you with all my soul :)

Hi platform7, #6 believes others can be controlled and rules made up to govern every aspect of everyone's life without consent.

That is dictator talk. If a dictators assistant invited you over for a pleasant evening, would you support his ideals?

[platform7]

That I agree with everything number_6 said :)

You are entitled to think of him as you will and I am sure if he comes back on this thread he will agree with me on this subject---(You are entitled to think of him as you will).

I was merely stating a fact number_6 had been very polite, respectful and helpful when I recently sent him a pm.

Do I think he is a dictator or a dictators assistant imho no therefore the offer to both of you still stands (hell if you both turn up together it would be interesting to say the least :eek:) lol

love and peace :)

[herald holmes]

That I agree with everything number_6 said :)

You are entitled to think of him as you will and I am sure if he comes back on this thread he will agree with me on this subject---(You are entitled to think of him as you will).

I was merely stating a fact number_6 had been very polite, respectful and helpful when I recently sent him a pm.

Do I think he is a dictator or a dictators assistant imho no therefore the offer to both of you still stands (hell if you both turn up together it would be interesting to say the least :eek:) lol

love and peace :)

So you agree with #6 that you can dictate to others on how they should live without their consent. Then you sign-off love and peace, ookay.

Nazis were very polite with each other too, sitting down to lavish meals while slaughtering millions. Polite is pleasant for some, in these types of discussions truth is my preferred medium, thou it may be harsh.

[number_6]

Nazis were very polite with each other too, sitting down to lavish meals while slaughtering millions. Polite is pleasant for some, in these types of discussions truth is my preferred medium, thou it may be harsh.

Here we see a typical FOTL response repeated often on forums such as this:
Draw a similarity in the behaviour of a non believer and the Nazis.
FOTL do this time after time.
It's so comical.

[h2pogo]

So you agree with #6 that you can dictate to others on how they should live without their consent. Then you sign-off love and peace, ookay.

Nazis were very polite with each other too, sitting down to lavish meals while slaughtering millions. Polite is pleasant for some, in these types of discussions truth is my preferred medium, thou it may be harsh.

i completely agree.
6s ideology is comparable to a prewar German Nazi.

[number_6]

i completely agree.
6s ideology is comparable to a prewar German Nazi.
In which way exactly?

[h2pogo]

In which way exactly?

as quoted from previous post..the part you left out..

"So you agree with #6 that you can dictate to others on how they should live without their consent. Then you sign-off love and peace, ookay."

[number_6]

as quoted from previous post..the part you left out..

"So you agree with #6 that you can dictate to others on how they should live without their consent. Then you sign-off love and peace, ookay."

So, because I claim that consent for statute law cannot be withdrawn I am a Nazi?
You FOTL are so funny.

[herald holmes]

Draw a similarity in the behaviour of a non believer and the Nazis.


It's not a similarity, it's how all dictators operate.


as quoted from previous post..the part you left out..

The people are starting to see straight through their deception. Next they will state we will tell you when your consent is required or not.

[herald holmes]

So, because I claim that consent for statute law cannot be withdrawn I am a Nazi?
You FOTL are so funny.

Then you are not talking about consent are you? You are talking about dictatorship.

You guys are not funny at all.

[number_6]

Then you are not talking about consent are you? You are talking about dictatorship.

You guys are not funny at all.

As I said in the other thread, if you believe you may withdraw consent from statute law, prove it once and for all.
Are you up for the challenge?

[herald holmes]

As I said in the other thread, if you believe you may withdraw consent from statute law, prove it once and for all.
Are you up for the challenge?

As I just said you are not talking about consent are you? You are talking about dictatorship.

[h2pogo]

So, because I claim that consent for statute law cannot be withdrawn I am a Nazi?
You FOTL are so funny.

I say you act as a Nazi as you say we must obey the rules of a criminal dictatorship.

Is that really the law?

[number_6]

As I just said you are not talking about consent are you? You are talking about dictatorship.

Backpedaling?

Come on, show us how you are not bound by any statute.

[number_6]

I say you act as a Nazi as you say we must obey the rules of a criminal dictatorship.

Is that really the law?

Criminal dictatorship?

You FOTL love the melodrama don't you?

[h2pogo]

Criminal dictatorship?

You FOTL love the melodrama don't you?

WTF do you think there are FMOTL? Is studying law meant to be fun..

[herald holmes]

Backpedaling?

Come on, show us how you are not bound by any statute.

If you are in the positive and state I must comply with something, then it is you who must bring the proof I am subject to statutes.

[number_6]

If you are in the positive and state I must comply with something, then it is you who must bring the proof I am subject to statutes.

With no proof that you are immune from statute law, I only have your word for it.
I don't believe you.
Simples.

[merlincove]

As I said in the other thread, if you believe you may withdraw consent from statute law, prove it once and for all.
Are you up for the challenge?

The Love Police: How to Escape a TERROR STOP (1 of 2) - YouTube

:D

[herald holmes]

With no proof that you are immune from statute law, I only have your word for it.
I don't believe you.
Simples.

With no proof I am a subject to your societies statutes, I only have your word for it.
I don't believe you.
Simplest.

[number_6]

With no proof I am a subject to your societies statutes, I only have your word for it.
I don't believe you.
Simplest.

If you don't believe it, why the fear of carrying a firearm in public?

You are immune!

No one may touch you.

Try it, it is only statute law.

[merlincove]

If you don't believe it, why the fear of carrying a firearm in public?

You are immune!

No one may touch you.

Try it, it is only statute law.

don't be silly 6, carrying a fire arm in public may (and probably will) cause others harm through stress / fear and duress, and as such constitute a crime. Also a p=peace officer may invoke the terrorism act, which as we know carries all kinds of nasties.

Please dont continue to insite members to carry fire arms in public.

check the video, 3.30 onwards, where danny, as a sovereign, refuses a request to be victim of a police search.

Carrying a fire arm would constitute a breach of the peace in any respect.

And you can watch pretty much any other vid from the love police and everything is ok to see that the guys refuse to be part of socieatal stutute regulations.

[number_6]

don't be silly 6, carrying a fire arm in public may (and probably will) cause others harm through stress / fear and duress,

It could be argued that driving at 120mph past my front door would have the same effect. But, FOTL claim that speed limits are not law, and such behaviour should not be punished. But that is different isn't it? It's much easier to fight a speeding offence rather than a firearm offence, and FOTL know it.

[h2pogo]

I agree 6 is being silly..who trusts the police to uphold the law..openly carrying a gun would bet you shot pretty quick.

peace is what we want..

take a leaf out of buds hat...

budoracle's Channel - YouTube

[merlincove]

It could be argued that driving at 120mph past my front door would have the same effect. But, FOTL claim that speed limits are not law, and such behaviour should not be punished.

conjecture, please respond to the post, there is no need for further Obfuscation ;)

[number_6]

conjecture, please respond to the post, there is no need for further Obfuscation ;)

I can't

I'm doing this on a computer away from home that doesn't have flash player installed, and it will not allow me to download it.

I have no video or any speakers.:(

[herald holmes]

If you don't believe it, why the fear of carrying a firearm in public?

You are immune!

No one may touch you.

Try it, it is only statute law.

Why do you think people are hiring peace keepers in their community if not for police brutality and lack of justice.

We are not immune to injury as we are to statutes.

Bear arms is a right stolen by so called police protection, they no longer protect and only collect.

[lightindarkness]

So...people with legitimate criticism of FOTL theory come and present their ideas in free and open forums, and when FOTL propagandists cant defend them themselves they resort to posting ranting threads like this?

Freeman on the land is a failure - every time its tried, it fails. No one can present any evidence of it actually working that is verifiable.

So, once again: All it takes is 1 court opinion or 1 letter from a local taxing authority recognizing your exempt status as Freeman on the land. Provide that evidence - simple to do if FOTL is a real and legally recognized - and you have shown that you are correct.

We're still waiting on that evidence. I think we will be for a while.

[herald holmes]

So...people with legitimate criticism of FOTL theory come and present their ideas in free and open forums, and when FOTL propagandists cant defend them themselves they resort to posting ranting threads like this?

Freeman on the land is a failure - every time its tried, it fails. No one can present any evidence of it actually working that is verifiable.

So, once again: All it takes is 1 court opinion or 1 letter from a local taxing authority recognizing your exempt status as Freeman on the land. Provide that evidence - simple to do if FOTL is a real and legally recognized - and you have shown that you are correct.

We're still waiting on that evidence. I think we will be for a while.

You need verification from some government department to tell you, you are free?

There is no hope for you.

A few other question you may want to ask:
1. What time may I go to bed?
2. Can I eat chicken?
3. Do I have to brush my teeth every night?
4. Can I have ice-cream before dinner?
5. What should I spend my hard earned money on?
6. Do I really have to jump off a cliff when you order me too?
7. Do you need my consent to govern me?

[herald holmes]

You need verification from some government department to tell you, you are free?

There is no hope for you.

A few other question you may want to ask:
1. What time may I go to bed?
2. Can I eat chicken?
3. Do I have to brush my teeth every night?
4. Can I have ice-cream before dinner?
5. What should I spend my hard earned money on?
6. Do I really have to jump off a cliff when you order me too?
7. Do you need my consent to govern me?

Government Departments response:

1. After your nightly programming.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.
5. Anything and everything, just spend it as quickly as you can.
6. Yes. Only on a court order, not just anyone can order such an action, you do have rights you know.
7. No. We keep you safe from the boogy man.

_________

Wow we are so lucky to be free and live in such a just society.

[herald holmes]

It's funny that I have an affidavit which has a point:

I have not seen nor been presented with any proof of claim I am subject to the Governance of any man or person


No one in Government is willing to counter this point at all.

[ozpixie]

Here in SA we are constantly being warned on radio (don't watch TV) to be alert for drunk walkers and to not run over little kids on their way to school.

[prajna]

As I said in the other thread, if you believe you may withdraw consent from statute law, prove it once and for all.
Are you up for the challenge?

Been there, done that, continue to do it at every opportunity. There is no 'once and for all'. If there was then the several occasions where I, and others, have directly confronted the police would be sufficient proof.

[merlincove]

So...people with legitimate criticism of FOTL theory come and present their ideas in free and open forums, and when FOTL propagandists cant defend them themselves they resort to posting ranting threads like this?

Freeman on the land is a failure - every time its tried, it fails. No one can present any evidence of it actually working that is verifiable.

So, once again: All it takes is 1 court opinion or 1 letter from a local taxing authority recognizing your exempt status as Freeman on the land. Provide that evidence - simple to do if FOTL is a real and legally recognized - and you have shown that you are correct.

We're still waiting on that evidence. I think we will be for a while.

isn't it about time you got a new hymn sheet, LiD?

your continued assumption that any man or woman needs an officially stamped letter headed note from the headmaster is a little tiring, given that many freeman have set examples, as chronologued on this very board, that FmotL philosophies do work.

Given that there are video's of freeman standing in their power as free men in courtrooms that have been posted on this very board, given that the "everything is ok" series has been posted, as well as the love police video's showing Danny not consenting to oppresive regulations and standing in his own power when confronted by the state bully boys: all these videos are documented evidence that freeman concepts do work.

You have spoken in the past about debunking, and yet every single one of these videos debunk everything you say, but somehow they are not enough, you continue to ask for more, for proof that does not and more to the point can not exist, because the state are in no way gonna be handing out documentation that exposes their rule of oppression as fraudulent and misplaced, they are never going to relinquish their control in such an open manner.

The only way to prove FmotL is to take it to them, and ask that they prove their right to judge the man and the woman, which they can not, because no man can judge another man when all men are equal.

End of.

Your argument holds no water when considered against almost every video that has been posted.

Your continued harassment of the freeman on this forum and the arguements put forward against their philosophies can be debunked with this post / thread:

GREAT VIDEO FOOTAGE in COURT

The MAGISTRATE APPEARS TO WAIL LIKED A SPOILED CHILD (Power Freak)!!

AND ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE POLICE FOR KEEPING THE PEACE

Actual footage of a Freeman of the land exercising his TRUE RIGHTS of COMMON LAW (Law of the Land) in Cwmbran Magistrates Court in South Wales:

http://vimeo.com/10211543

http://vimeo.com/10211543


This is for a Council Tax Liability Order hearing in , There were 14 Freemen in attendance.


;)

so why do you continue to argue a point lost already?

[micklemus]

You need verification from some government department to tell you, you are free?

There is no hope for you.


I don't wish to be argumentative but haven't you rather hit the nail on the head as far as this fallacious concept is concerned?

I don't know about lightindarkness but I certainly don't need verification from anyone to assert my personal freedom. However that's exactly what FOTL are searching for all the time.

Sign and serve this document or that and then you're free. What codswallop. No we are always free but some of us create mental hell holes that leave us stuck in the same old morass that much of humanity has been in for thousands of years.

Hopefully this isn't too contentious, but maybe more of us can just BE free. No permission required.

[herald holmes]

I don't wish to be argumentative but haven't you rather hit the nail on the head as far as this fallacious concept is concerned?

I don't know about lightindarkness but I certainly don't need verification from anyone to assert my personal freedom. However that's exactly what FOTL are searching for all the time.

Sign and serve this document or that and then you're free. What codswallop. No we are always free but some of us create mental hell holes that leave us stuck in the same old morass that much of humanity has been in for thousands of years.

Hopefully this isn't too contentious, but maybe more of us can just BE free. No permission required.

You got yourself into it by accepting the benefit, consent is granted.

Stop accepting benefits(no benefit really) and remove any implied consent.

That is where a CoR is important as it is your first stone upon the foundation of Law, remove all color of law. Your next stone is what you want to do with your life.

Until then you are stuck in commerce Law (private).

[micklemus]

You got yourself into it by accepting the benefit, consent is granted.

Stop accepting benefits(no benefit really) and remove any implied consent.

That is where a CoR is important as it is your first stone upon the foundation of Law, remove all color of law. Your next stone is what you want to do with your life.

Until then you are stuck in commerce Law (private).

No, no, no. Absolutely not (with the greatest respect)

If I take issue with something, I'll take issue with it. I'm not going to try and give myself a false sense of security by signing a (meaningless) piece of paper in the (misguided) hope that it will afford me protection. Working that way is an act of fear.

I don't need to do anything to enjoy my own limitless potential. I just need to be me.

[prajna]

No, no, no. Absolutely not (with the greatest respect)

If I take issue with something, I'll take issue with it. I'm not going to try and give myself a false sense of security by signing a (meanlingless) piece of paper in the (misguided) hope that it will afford me protection. Working that way is an act of fear.

I don't need to do anything to enjoy my own limitless potential. I just need to be me.

Have to say, I agree with Mike on this.

[herald holmes]

No, no, no. Absolutely not (with the greatest respect)

If I take issue with something, I'll take issue with it. I'm not going to try and give myself a false sense of security by signing a (meanlingless) piece of paper in the (misguided) hope that it will afford me protection. Working that way is an act of fear.

I don't need to do anything to enjoy my own limitless potential. I just need to be me.

Absolutely, but there are many people who "don't need to do anything to enjoy my own limitless potential. I just need to be me"

Do you not recognize that right in every man, can you see where your limitless potential may limit someones limitless potential? Do you not see your responsibility?

Would you not seek to avoid limiting others the way you would not like to be limited?

Would you not give him indication or Notice?

[micklemus]

Absolutely, but there are many people who "don't need to do anything to enjoy my own limitless potential. I just need to be me"

Do you not recognize that right in every man, can you see where your limitless potential may limit someones limitless potential? Do you not see your responsibility?

Would you not seek to avoid limiting others the way you would not like to be limited?

Would you not give him indication or Notice?

No. Infinity has no limits.

If someone feels limited by me, that is their choice/their state of mind. They don't have to feel that way, as the only person I control is myself.

If I choose to have the weight of the world on my shoulders and live in fear that I am stuck in tyranny then that's what I'll get. If I decide that the only route to a better life is by signing and serving a piece of paper and hoping everyone respects it then that is my reality. Our thoughts beliefs shape our reality.

My choice is to remove the restrictions in my mind and embrace love and freedom. There is nothing that I cannot do. Nor you.

[herald holmes]

No. Infinity has no limits.

If someone feels limited by me, that is their choice/their state of mind. They don't have to feel that way, as the only person I control is myself.

If I choose to have the weight of the world on my shoulders and live in fear that I am stuck in tyranny then that's what I'll get. If I decide that the only route to a better life is by signing and serving a piece of paper and hoping everyone respects it then that is my reality. Our thoughts beliefs shape our reality.

My choice is to remove the restrictions in my mind and embrace love and freedom. There is nothing that I cannot do. Nor you.

My limitless potential includes building very tall walls around everything. To bad if I limit you, it's just a state of your mind.

There are some people very eager to show their limitless potential by joining their limitless potential together. Which includes controlling every aspect of your limitless potential.

[johngr]

So...people with legitimate criticism of FOTL theory come and present their ideas in free and open forums, and when FOTL propagandists cant defend them themselves they resort to posting ranting threads like this?

I am no "FOTL propagandist". I approach it from a moral POV. To me taxation is factually no different from a mafia protection racket -- I don't care whether it's "legal" or not, really.

You characterise FOTLers as "propagandists". I consider most, though certainly not all, as I thought I made clear in the OP, of "people with legitimate criticism" as discussion derailers and wonder why someone without specific law-based criticisms would give a flying fuck about some misguided FOTLers. The tactics are not unlike their "cognitive infiltrator" cousins on the 911 boards.

[micklemus]

My limitless potential includes building very tall walls around everything. To bad if I limit you, it's just a state of your mind.

There are some people very eager to show their limitless potential by joining their limitless potential together. Which includes controlling every aspect of your limitless potential.

My friend, I think you have largely made my point for me.

You must do what you feel is right. Most of us here have similar core values. If freedom for you means building walls then so be it. I'm not here to change you, only to express myself.

When it comes to joining together, I believe (I have beliefs too!) that we need to drop the dogma and look after each other. These freeman procedures are dogma for me - ref my previous comments about fear. It's like fighting with one hand tied behind your back (NB - I emphasise that that is a metaphor, as I not one for fighting myself). Putting it another way, these notices etc are akin to saying, "I'm free but I'm scared I might not be." Crackers.

We should help each other, yes.

[johngr]

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[micklemus]

Aren't these related issues?

[lightindarkness]

And the flailing about and hysterics continue, and we are still awaiting the all-to-easy to obtain proof - were FOTL real and recognized by any government.

[merlincove]

And the flailing about and hysterics continue, and we are still awaiting the all-to-easy to obtain proof - were FOTL real and recognized by any government.

i have supplied it already, and of course you choose to ignore A) the proof that fmotl works, and B) the fmotl guidelines, thanks for the nudge john :D

But of course no proof exists escept by your definition, are you not decrying the very concepts you rebell against with such a request?

[herald holmes]

My friend, I think you have largely made my point for me.

You must do what you feel is right. Most of us here have similar core values. If freedom for you means building walls then so be it. I'm not here to change you, only to express myself.

When it comes to joining together, I believe (I have beliefs too!) that we need to drop the dogma and look after each other. These freeman procedures are dogma for me - ref my previous comments about fear. It's like fighting with one hand tied behind your back (NB - I emphasise that that is a metaphor, as I not one for fighting myself). Putting it another way, these notices etc are akin to saying, "I'm free but I'm scared I might not be." Crackers.

We should help each other, yes.


The only point that was made is that you want endless philosophical debate.

My limitless potential builds 6 padded walls around you and your limitless potential. You are free if you say you are.

You seemed confused, one minute limitless, then needing help, then calling others fearful when I can see it shine through you bright as day.

A call to drop dogma and look after each other, I am not your nanny. I will stand and protect my rights which will help protect your rights, but I will not look after you, that is your job and I'm sure your limitless potential will help.

Will you stand with me, do you believe this is worthy of our limitless potential.

[h2pogo]

And the flailing about and hysterics continue, and we are still awaiting the all-to-easy to obtain proof - were FOTL real and recognized by any government.

do you really think the corrupt corporate regimes intent on enslaving the world you call government are going to admit defeat...easily...quite amusing :)

[merlincove]

do you really think the corrupt corporate regimes intent on enslaving the world you call government are going to admit defeat...easily...quite amusing :)


it would be amusing if their desperate flailings weren't so sad.

But while some search for enlightenment, others strive to darken their every attempt, and rather than search for resolve and remedy, there is a continued push toward separation, the insertion of barriers, and the building of walls to further segregation.

While some attend to unity others attend to take up the tools given to them by the oppressors and use them against their brothers and sisters in ignorance of the agenda behind their chosen tasks. while we fight such pettiness, TPTB are laughing all the way, leaving the trolls do their work for them.

[platform7]

I have sent you a pm :)

I am genuinely interested in the concept of FOTL and have shall we say dabbled unsuccessfully so far (car tax and council tax) also my person is employed in a job I very much enjoy.

I might not be as clever at this stuff as your good self and I admire your words and actions and I am very interested in that affidavit of yours I like this bit very, very, very much.

It's funny that I have an affidavit which has a point:

I have not seen nor been presented with any proof of claim I am subject to the Governance of any man or person.

No one in Government is willing to counter this point at all.
(question have you had this affidavit noterised?)

Best wishes and as you know love and peace:)

[hadabusa]

It's funny that I have an affidavit which has a point:

I have not seen nor been presented with any proof of claim I am subject to the Governance of any man or person


No one in Government is willing to counter this point at all.

break a law and youll get to meet reality.


you laugh at ppl asking for govt approval of freedom, yet you think a selfmade paper grants you freedom.

you know it doesnt.

power=biggest gun.

easy as.

[micklemus]

The only point that was made is that you want endless philosophical debate.

My limitless potential builds 6 padded walls around you and your limitless potential. You are free if you say you are.

You seemed confused, one minute limitless, then needing help, then calling others fearful when I can see it shine through you bright as day.

A call to drop dogma and look after each other, I am not your nanny. I will stand and protect my rights which will help protect your rights, but I will not look after you, that is your job and I'm sure your limitless potential will help.

Will you stand with me, do you believe this is worthy of our limitless potential.

I don't think you understand me. I'll leave it there.:confused:

[johngr]

break a law and youll get to meet reality.


you laugh at ppl asking for govt approval of freedom, yet you think a selfmade paper grants you freedom.

you know it doesnt.

power=biggest gun.

easy as.

I think what most FOTL are aiming at is to become like a Baumstachler so that the revenue agents look elsewhere for more easy, sheep-like prey.

[hadabusa]

I think what most FOTL are aiming at is to become like a Baumstachler so that the revenue agents look elsewhere for more easy, sheep-like prey.

baumstachler, yes that sums it up.

but theres ways to avoid certain taxes without all the hassle, i know for a fact:)

[herald holmes]

I have sent you a pm :)

I am genuinely interested in the concept of FOTL and have shall we say dabbled unsuccessfully so far (car tax and council tax) also my person is employed in a job I very much enjoy.

I might not be as clever at this stuff as your good self and I admire your words and actions and I am very interested in that affidavit of yours I like this bit very, very, very much.

It's funny that I have an affidavit which has a point:

I have not seen nor been presented with any proof of claim I am subject to the Governance of any man or person.

No one in Government is willing to counter this point at all.
(question have you had this affidavit noterised?)

Best wishes and as you know love and peace:)

What do you mean unsuccessful? I don't know your case nor the diligence taken in administration.

What I did was perfect a claim and have default judgment, from there I made 'claim cards' and had them notarized as true and correct and use that to Identify my property and rights held.

I claimed the right to exclusive use of my property (car) to the exclusion of all else. Insurance is a scheme and not required. The 'claim card' or certificate identifies the property and owner (jurisdiction). That is all I carry is 3 claim cards, the original paperwork is locked in a safe. Contact details of the notary are on the back.

This has avoided conflict with police as they have a number to contact from an official body to verify the details.

[herald holmes]

break a law and youll get to meet reality.


you laugh at ppl asking for govt approval of freedom, yet you think a selfmade paper grants you freedom.

you know it doesnt.

power=biggest gun.

easy as.

What Law are you talking about, or are you speaking from a stand point of limited knowledge and lack of self worth, so you interject with ignorance.


Paper does not make you free, but draws a line in the sand for others to ponder. your actions are the critical part in standing free. Peace is the end goal, and the end does not justify the means, so all your actions need to show that end goal.

If you give no one the opportunity to correct their mistakes, you fall into the trick of separation. Would you not like someone to give you the opportunity to fix the problem you caused for them, thus avoiding conflict?

[johngr]

baumstachler, yes that sums it up.

but theres ways to avoid certain taxes without all the hassle, i know for a fact:)

FOTL seems to be an Anglosphere thing. I've not come across it in Germany or Scandinavia, anyway. But I'm pretty sure, though that the common law originates from 6th Century Sachsen. The US Wild West of the 1800s had functional anarchy. And the Midieval Icelanders had a completely privatised and libertarian/anarchic way of settling disputes amongst themselves (before the zombie cannibal cult, aka the Church got to them, anyway). Much easier to manage, though on an island with intelligent, cohesive, highly cooperative and very closely related coethnics.

[herald holmes]

I don't think you understand me. I'll leave it there.:confused:

I believe your spiritual concepts are not founded upon Law, and thus in a place of confused darkness.

In any practice, The Laws that allow life to exist are the same Laws that allow the harmony of Natural force in our actions and reactions. Law must be the foundation or you are building on sand.

[johngr]

I believe your spiritual concepts are not founded upon Law, and thus in a place of confused darkness.

In any practice, The Laws that allow life to exist are the same Laws that allow the harmony of Natural force in our actions and reactions. Law must be the foundation or you are building on sand.

That's true but are you talking the laws of Nature or the laws of NATURE? That's a very important distinction. ;)

[herald holmes]

That's true but are you talking the laws of Nature or the laws of NATURE? That's a very important distinction. ;)

So we are on the same page, define:

Nature:

NATURE:

[hadabusa]

FOTL seems to be an Anglosphere thing. I've not come across it in Germany or Scandinavia, anyway. But I'm pretty sure, though that the common law originates from 6th Century Sachsen. The US Wild West of the 1800s had functional anarchy. And the Midieval Icelanders had a completely privatised and libertarian/anarchic way of settling disputes amongst themselves (before the zombie cannibal cult, aka the Church got to them, anyway). Much easier to manage, though on an island with intelligent, cohesive, highly cooperative and very closely related coethnics.

spain had anarchy for a while last century, it worked quite well.

yea,itsa commonwealth thing, europe has napoleons codified laws.

both can be corrupted.

the swiss law,as insane it may sound(no jury, no courtcases in most cases even), is the most progressive and liberal worldwide.
i mean, you cant be charged4theft as long a doc testifies youre cleptomanic.
you cant
:)

thers more outrageous stuff like that, its really, really often an uphill struggle for the COURTS:D

you gotta deliver a shitload bs till you see jailtime here.

if i was convicted for my convictions in my portfolio and it were ina conservative us state, idve gotten death row in atleast 1, lifesentence in others.


at very lest 10years behind bars.

here,i walk free after couple days.
so yeah, american common law can kiss my ass, we certainly are better off here.

you look at us cop wrong way=you get a tazer mounted in your anus.

here,cops campaign so ppl dont spit at them,imnot joking.

theyre affraid of youth,bc most are trined in martial arts.lol.

and ppl talk about some common laws bs tales/spells.


while swiss socialists have softened up the machinery(usefull,realistic,bc it happened), the fotl advice4literal anarchy, wich would mean taking down WHOLE system.

yeah rite, good fckn luck, fotl, im outta here4good.

[herald holmes]

while swiss socialists have softened up the machinery(usefull,realistic,bc it happened), the fotl advice4literal anarchy, wich would mean taking down WHOLE system.

yeah rite, good fckn luck, fotl, im outta here4good.

Again with ignorance, why not ask a freeman what is their goal instead of presuming anti-government?

I read somewhere on their official website that they are pro honorable, transparent and accountable government.

It's a little different then the ignorance you propagandized against a peaceful movement of free men.

I don't see them trying to bring down the whole Government, the Government is doing a great job at that themselves.

[lesactive]

let him go, it's a good thing ;)

[johngr]

So we are on the same page, define:

Nature:

NATURE:

That was a joke.

[herald holmes]

That was a joke.

Hehe. Good joke. I feel my joke back to you was more sophisticated though.

[johngr]

Hehe. Good joke. I feel my joke back to you was more sophisticated though.

Must have been because it went right over my head. You might try a smiley or two next time.

[herald holmes]

Must have been because it went right over my head. You might try a smiley or two next time.

You can no longer use your power of reason? You need a smiley... sad.

You tried to start an argument over a word using lower case and upper case letters in the hope to confuse people with capitis diminutio maxima, which has to do with status not letters.

I deflected the hot potato back into your hands, to which you did drop.

Nature: Oh look it has a big N, it must have meduim status.

NATURE: Oh look it is soooo BIG, it must have MAXIMA status.

Made me laugh. :p:);):D:rolleyes::o:cool::eek:

Tell another joke...

[johngr]

You can no longer use your power of reason? You need a smiley... sad.

You tried to start an argument over a word using lower case and upper case letters in the hope to confuse people with capitis diminutio maxima, which has to do with status not letters.

I deflected the hot potato back into your hands, to which you did drop.

Nature: Oh look it has a big N, it must have meduim status.

NATURE: Oh look it is soooo BIG, it must have MAXIMA status.

Made me laugh. :p:);):D:rolleyes::o:cool::eek:

Tell another joke...

I gathered from your second post you got my joke, (you didn't). It was an analogy to the UPPERCASE spelled corporate legal fiction that statutory/admiralty courts supposedly deal with (John Smith vs. JOHN SMITH), a cornerstone of the FOTL legal argument.

[lightindarkness]

i have supplied it already, and of course you choose to ignore A) the proof that fmotl works, and B) the fmotl guidelines, thanks for the nudge john :D

But of course no proof exists escept by your definition, are you not decrying the very concepts you rebell against with such a request?

No proof has been supplied. Your attempts to harass and insult me, which are very well documented (and break the forum rules), are not proof.

So where is the proof? Just one document stating you are free of your local taxes by any local government authority due to your FOTL status.

Still waiting. Its never going to be posted because its not real. FOTL is a cult.

[herald holmes]

I gathered from your second post you got my joke, (you didn't). It was an analogy to the UPPERCASE spelled corporate legal fiction that statutory/admiralty courts supposedly deal with (John Smith vs. JOHN SMITH), a cornerstone of the FOTL legal argument.

Seems my second post went over your head too..Hehe

It's not the size that counts, it' the status..Hehe:D.. so I've been told... I crack me up.

[johngr]

Seems my second post went over your head too..Hehe

That's pretty deep. Anybody got some hip boots?

[herald holmes]

That's pretty deep. Anybody got some hip boots?

You doofus johngr, I just said that. Legal fiction, Change in status, CAPITAL letters ring a bell.

You don't really know what you are talking about do you! I had a feeling. Hehe.

[girlgye]

That's pretty deep. Anybody got some hip boots?

Now girl and boy. Kiss and make up. :D

I like John too. :D

[herald holmes]

, a cornerstone of the FOTL legal argument.

Funny I thought freedom was the cornerstone and proper grammar a necessity. Especially nouns :eek::eek::eek: Hehe.

Seriously girlgye, what would be the worst karma could throw at me for this post.

[merlincove]

No proof has been supplied. Your attempts to harass and insult me, which are very well documented (and break the forum rules), are not proof.

So where is the proof? Just one document stating you are free of your local taxes by any local government authority due to your FOTL status.

Still waiting. Its never going to be posted because its not real. FOTL is a cult.

Sigh.

please say where i have insulted you.

You may choose to ignore the proof that is given in every single video on youtube from ‘the love police,’ from ‘everything is ok’ and from the freeman in court video i posted earlier, you may choose to live life in dogmatic contempt of truth and love, compassion and beauty; and of course you can do so of your own free will - because you are, believe it or not, a free man.

When you open your arms to embrace the beauty that is you, and step into your power as a free man, a human being with a blessed soul existing as a spark of Infinite Love, then you might choose to see the proof that is all around you.

Until then you may choose to decry it all and ask for further proof, again that is your choice.

In continuing to sing from the hymn sheet that the oppressors gave you, and in continuing to believe the lie that they told you, that you are a person, you continue to live in fear; and fear and Infinite Love can never occupy the same space, for the one repels the other.

Accept your Divine and Infinite right to be free, embrace infinite love, the only truth, and embrace you truest power, and you can set your Self free

Embrace your power and say to the oppressive state:

‘I am Infinite Love, what are you going to do to me?’

And then you will begin to understand not only your own power but the proof that FmotL philosophies embody an ultimate truth that can not be recorded in a scrap of paper or a letter-headed note from the council.

The oppressors wish to stem the Only Truth, they wish to quell any conduit of freedom, and at the end of the day I know who I choose to be, I choose to be me and I choose the Freedom that is my right; I Am Me and I Am Free.

[girlgye]

Sigh.

please say where i have insulted you.

You may choose to ignore the proof that is given in every single video on youtube from ‘the love police,’ from ‘everything is ok’ and from the freeman in court video i posted earlier, you may choose to live life in dogmatic contempt of truth and love, compassion and beauty; and of course you can do so of your own free will - because you are, believe it or not, a free man.

.

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe ehehehehehehee
eee by gum

:D:D:eek:

[micklemus]

I believe your spiritual concepts are not founded upon Law, and thus in a place of confused darkness.

In any practice, The Laws that allow life to exist are the same Laws that allow the harmony of Natural force in our actions and reactions. Law must be the foundation or you are building on sand.

Absolute bunkem. And that's coming from me, someone who people here tend to believe is fixated on the law.

I am fast coming to the conclusion that you just enjoy being argumentative. You appear to be attempting to draw parrallels between the 'laws' of nature, 'laws' of physics and the law. A non sequitur.

[herald holmes]

Absolute Hogwash, and that's coming from me, someone who people believe is enraptured with the law.

I love the way you word things. I could answer 'Yes, I am argumentative', but if I say 'No' you will see it as argumentative. Your conclusions are your own and not necessarily the truth.


Please explain the singularity between 1 principle and another in law.

[micklemus]

No. This is a barren debate.

[herald holmes]

You have brought nothing to debate.

[micklemus]

Looks like my instincts about you were correct.

Also correct that I have brought nothing to debate - I've just told you that - see my answer to your previous post.

I'm very happy to have reasoned discussions with anyone, but this is just circular and argumentative. There is nothing I can usefully add...

...except go ahead and have the last word.

[herald holmes]

Don't mind if I do, my instincts say you are unable to convey in words your ideas as they are not fully developed.

If you have nothing to debate than you must agree with me. Awesome, I hope to make some friends soon on this forum.


I would love a logical and reasoned debate with you, but your limitless potential gets in the way.

I know you are limitless, but what am I. All I ask is you show a little restraint with your limitless potential and give a little notice when you are about to wield that thing in public.

[number_6]

You appear to be attempting to draw parrallels between the 'laws' of nature, 'laws' of physics and the law. A non sequitur.

micklemus have you not yet realised that a non sequitur is the FOTL's most valuable tool?
They quote them daily:D

[micklemus]

micklemus have you not yet realised that a non sequitur is the FOTL's most valuable tool?
They quote them daily:D

Ha ha, very true.

What other ones could be brought into this stream of consciousness? LA Law perhaps?! Law and Order? Bode's Law? The Law of the Jungle?

[herald holmes]

micklemus have you not yet realised that a non sequitur is the FOTL's most valuable tool?
They quote them daily:D


This coming from someone who believes consent is something that cannot be denied, what a loop. A non sequitur argument would go something like I am limitless, you are limitless, our limitlessness will never interfere with each other as interference is in the mind only...