Why don't Christians believe Jesus is God?

[loveisthelaw]

1 John {5:7} For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

This is the only referene that peopel use to say God is Jesus, and Jesus is God.

However it is only present in the KJV version of the Bible - It was thrown out as a fabrication, yet they put it back in to the KJV to help them catch fish.

"...it has long been known by scholars that it is not part of the original text. It was never in the Greek manuscripts, but surfaced in the Latin translation in the fifth century"

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/the-controversy-of-i-john-57-johannine-comma/

5:7 There are three that give witness about Jesus.
5:8 They are the Holy Spirit, the baptism of Jesus and his death. And the three of them agree.

New International Version
5:7 For there are three that testify:
5:8 the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

New American Standard Bible
5:7 For there are (N)three that testify:
8[b]the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

New Living Translation
5:7 So we have these three witnesses[c]—
5:8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree.

English Standard Version
5:7For there are three that testify:
5:8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.

Contemporary English Version
5:7In fact, there are three who tell about it.
5:8They are the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and they all agree

Today's New International Version
5:7 For there are three that testify: 8 the [a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

American Standard Version
5:7 And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
5:8 For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.

Darby Translation
5:7For they that bear witness are three:
5:8the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three agree in one.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
5:7 For there are three that testify: (H) [b]
5:8 the Spirit, (I) the water, and the blood (J) —and these three are in agreement.

New International Reader's Version
5:7 There are three that give witness about Jesus.
5:8 They are the Holy Spirit, the baptism of Jesus and his death. And the three of them agree.

As you see, the Bible teaches they agree, they are 1 in purpose. God is alone, as such Jesus was not, is not and never will be God.

Good day to you all.

[armoured_amazon]

John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us” This clearly indicates that Yeshua is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Yeshua. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood.

[orlibonurb]

What do you mean by "Why Christians don't believe Jesus is God".

Jesus is the living God. The God of Abraham, Jacob & Isaac.


John {8:58} Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Exodus {3:13} And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? {3:14} And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.


Jesus is God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit and these are three are one and the same indeed.

1 John {5:7} For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1x1x1=1


Jesus Christ is God Incarnate
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

[1776]

What do you mean by "Why Christians don't believe Jesus is God".

Jesus is the living God. The God of Abraham, Jacob & Isaac.


John {8:58} Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Exodus {3:13} And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? {3:14} And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.


Jesus is God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit and these are three are one and the same indeed.

1 John {5:7} For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1x1x1=1


Jesus Christ is God Incarnate
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

Well said.

Jesus as God

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

In the New Testament, the Gospel of John has been seen as aimed at emphasizing Jesus' divinity, presenting Jesus as the Logos, pre-existent and divine, from its first words, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God";[John 1:1] and "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."[1:14][45] Other passages of John's Gospel interpreted in this sense include "before Abraham was born, I am!",[8:58] "I and the Father are one",[10:30] "The Father is in me, and I in the Father",[10:38] and "Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!'"[20:28] [46] John is also seen to identify Jesus as the Lord whom Isaiah saw,[Jn. 12:34-45] [Isa. 6:1-10] while other texts[Heb. 1:1-12] are also understood as referring to Jesus as God.[47][48][49]

Peace&Love
God bless

[loveisthelaw]

Jesus is God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit and these are three are one and the same indeed.

1 John {5:7} For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1x1x1=1


Yet I showed you that this John 5:7 is a fabrication and does not even exist in 90% of the Bibles, nor does it exists in the orginal script...... So are these Bibles and scholars wrong, or is the KJV trying to push an inaccurate message to help a King of old England gain power via Shaytan's corrupting hand, moving the masses to shirk?

If John is right, why are almost all Bibles wrong and why are the 50 most eminent scholars of Christendom wrong?
If John is wrong, can you really believe that this book is the literal word of God, errors and all?

1x1x1=1 yet this sum would require addition and not multiplication. Not sure where you learned math though... :)

[bougz]

Try asking my 70 something old grandmother this question. She still has this odd belief that the "mighty" USA is blessed by God! I ask her where was Jesus during 911 or in any of the us tragedies over the years of this countrys exsistance? She gets so pissed. Why do you Christians get upset when a UN- brainwashed person questions your religions supposed leader? Lmao I told her the other day I said grandma I don't beg Christ like all of his Lamb. Her reaction was why not. Her eyes got to the size of half dollars! See she knows I know the Bible. I was forced as a kid to memorize it and speak it in front of the congregation.

She just doesn't understand what real forces are around.
I just gave her a hug she was like may God bless you! I was like thank you? And said mine does and may yours bless you!

This messes people up when I say that!

[dragon fang]

Not all the editors back then had the same opinion you know...

[fantabulous]

Try asking my 70 something old grandmother this question. She still has this odd belief that the "mighty" USA is blessed by God! I ask her where was Jesus during 911 or in any of the us tragedies over the years of this countrys exsistance? She gets so pissed. Why do you Christians get upset when a UN- brainwashed person questions your religions supposed leader? Lmao I told her the other day I said grandma I don't beg Christ like all of his Lamb. Her reaction was why not. Her eyes got to the size of half dollars! See she knows I know the Bible. I was forced as a kid to memorize it and speak it in front of the congregation.

She just doesn't understand what real forces are around.
I just gave her a hug she was like may God bless you! I was like thank you? And said mine does and may yours bless you!

This messes people up when I say that!

The 911 incident was much more extreme than people know of.

Two forces clashed. Good and Evil. Depending on which side won the battle was what was to determine the meaning and purpose of the events.

Those on the evil side were attempting to create a central point of deception that would surpass the event horizon, meaning it was to forever grow in size, thus destroying access to certain truths forever onward. The rest is simple but too lengthy to describe here.

Satan was trying to strike down two towering figures, those being God, and the Son of God.
God, and the Son of God, were trying to strike down Satan with a wound that he could not recover from.

Those on the good side won the battle and thus the two towering figures, God and the Son of God, were not struck down, and so a fictitious representation of such a failure occurred instead, thus passing the message to us as well. The representation was the Twin Towers coming down.

Satan was successfully hit with a deadly wound, and thus a possible recovery was replaced via the wounding of the Pentagon followed by its full repair. The Pentagon was the choice since the Devil is often represented by the Pentacle symbol.

Divinity is represented number 7. Divinity survived the battle, thus a fictitious representation of divinity being destroyed occurred instead. WTC building #7 came down.

Concerning God and Jesus being one in the same, this is verified via Bible Codes encoded within the KJV Bible.

See -> http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

[nectars]

What do you mean by "Why Christians don't believe Jesus is God".

Jesus is the living God. The God of Abraham, Jacob & Isaac.

Interesting. I disagree with Jesus being God but regarding the above it would be interesting to see your view on the following.

The 10 Commandments


Exodus Chapter 20

1 AND God spoke all these words, saying,

ONE

2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 You shall have no other gods except me.

TWO

4 You shall not make for yourself any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth;

5 You shall not worship them nor serve them; for I the LORD your God am a zealous God, visiting the offenses of the fathers upon their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me;

6 And showing mercy to thousands of generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Lamsa translations from the Aramaic(clickable) (http://www.lamsabible.com/10_commandments.htm)

Broken by...

1. Worshipping Jesus.

2. Worshiping images of Jesus on the cross.

[orlibonurb]

This is what is known as the trinity. It's not three Gods, but one in 3 "forms", per say.


God the Father (Jesus)

God the Son (Jesus)

God the Holy Spirit (Jesus).


These three are one and the same. 1x1x1=1



Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun Elohim is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word Elohim and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for God, Elohim, definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17, 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

[thereisonlywe]

This is what is known as the trinity. It's not three Gods, but one in 3 "forms", per say.


God the Father (Jesus)

God the Son (Jesus)

God the Holy Spirit (Jesus).


These three are one and the same. 1x1x1=1



Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun Elohim is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word Elohim and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for God, Elohim, definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17, 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

"Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit." This is the problem. God does not need himself. Because, He is indivisible. You need your mouth to speak, God does not. Power is in the One only (not in His spirit, or whatever part).

You need to read the first lesson in our website to comprehend this.

Love&Peace

[nectars]

This is what is known as the trinity. It's not three Gods, but one in 3 "forms", per say.


God the Father (Jesus)

God the Son (Jesus)

God the Holy Spirit (Jesus).


These three are one and the same. 1x1x1=1


Your right they are the same yet not in the linear context explained above.

When Christians pray to Jesus they think of the man as the One True Living God. This is worshipping a false idol. Jesus the man is a manifestation of the Father as the Son(the man), not the other way around, the Father is not a manifestation of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the Christ, that which Jesus became. Again, not the other way around.

Jesus the man went to his Father as the Son(manifestation) through the Christ.

If your post was intended as a reply to my last post then its sidestepping the question. Why do Christians break both the first and second commandments in church and elsewhere by worshipping a man as an idol?

[tannah]

Your right they are the same yet not in the linear context explained above.

When Christians pray to Jesus they think of the man as the One True Living God. This is worshipping a false idol. Jesus the man is a manifestation of the Father as the Son(the man), not the other way around, the Father is not a manifestation of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the Christ, that which Jesus became. Again, not the other way around.

Jesus the man went to his Father as the Son(manifestation) through the Christ.

If your post was intended as a reply to my last post then its sidestepping the question. Why do Christians break both the first and second commandments in church and elsewhere by worshipping a man as an idol?

Well explained.

[dedicate]

nectars post proves there is an adequate way of understanding it and describing the Trinity. One can also use mathematics to prove a trinity, just look into the works of the Neo-Platonists.-- The One is always divisable by Two or Three.... and a Four, Five, Six if one wishes . But the Three is considered to be a very holy or a mystical division. The One, when divided, still remains One.

This flys in the face of convention, or as the previous post pointed out, The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, Not true. Though we can not "fully" understand almost anything, the trinity can be understood. Just not understandable when presented in the way most church people seem to present it. ie God being fully human and fully Not Human at the same time.

The only reason the Christian will admit Jesus was human at all, it seems, is because the Bible specifically points out his humanity. He is very human, like Gottam or Mohammad were. What these people also see as Jusus' God nature, is that of nature itself,, and is not about him being the Creator of the Universe.

If the clergy didn't have the Bible, I suppose they, or most of them, would be saying just "Jesus is God".. and deny anything about him being Human.. If they could get away with it.

[loveisthelaw]

One can also use mathematics to prove a trinity



Yes, some "one" on this forum uses Math to justify the trinity. But I ask you, if you are a shop keeper and you sell three items, will you do:

1x1x1=1

or

1+1+1=3 ?

;)

[thereisonlywe]

Yes, some "one" on this forum uses Math to justify the trinity. But I ask you, if you are a shop keeper and you sell three items, will you do:

1x1x1=1

or

1+1+1=3 ?

;)

Lol. Yes.

Actually, both operations are correct. According to Ibn Arabi, multiplication refers to manifestations of God. So, there might be a billion people, but they are all the manifestation of the one. 1x1x1....=1

Addition however is only valid in duality. You can't count God, because He is in and out of the Universe at the same time.

Love&Peace

[loveisthelaw]

You can't count God, because He is in and out of the Universe at the same time.


Can you expand on being in the universe please..... - as if God was in the universe, then God would be subject to the laws of the universe and would have to be created. An uncreated thing can not enter creation unless it too become created.

How do I know God is uncreated?

Surah Ikhlaas:
Wa lam yakul kufuwan ahad. And like him there is no thing.

If God were created, this final touchstone would not be true as God would be like other created things. Since there is no thing like him, God can not created nor in creation. He is however in complete control of creation. To look after your pet hamster, you do not need to become a hamster yourself :)

[dedicate]

God being the Universe and Not the Universe,, is the Duality not the Trintity. -- "Form is emptiness,,, emptiness is form." It's a duality. -- "Emptiness is not different from form. Form is not different from emptiness".

In practical terms,, the way we often use the concept,, "Through service to others,,, we serve the One God." This may be thought to mean we serve Him via the creation (which is true),, but also in truth,, there is no differance (The One).

So, one may believe one is serving God by way of serving people, but search a little higher in understanding, and discover, its the same thing and not just something God wants us to do as a service to Him and your growth. In actual truth you are serving God when you serve his creation.-- otherwise why the precept, "Service"

This is the reason, in the Holy Books... it is told.. "How can one hate your neighbor and love God?" Or.. "How can one misunderstand the things of this world, and understand the things of the next? Ie Jesus said, 'I tell you of the things of this world and you don't understand, .. so how can you understand the things of the next?'".. Because both are the same thing.

[thereisonlywe]

Can you expand on being in the universe please..... - as if God was in the universe, then God would be subject to the laws of the universe and would have to be created. An uncreated thing can not enter creation unless it too become created.

How do I know God is uncreated?

Surah Ikhlaas:
Wa lam yakul kufuwan ahad. And like him there is no thing.

If God were created, this final touchstone would not be true as God would be like other created things. Since there is no thing like him, God can not created nor in creation. He is however in complete control of creation. To look after your pet hamster, you do not need to become a hamster yourself :)

There is nothing in the universe besides God, because it is the only thing that can be known. However, it is not a creation. But, what you see on a creation is Him (from a limited perspective). So, Him but not Himself. There is lots of information about this on our website.

Love&Peace

[thereisonlywe]

God being the Universe and Not the Universe,, is the Duality not the Trintity. -- "Form is emptiness,,, emptiness is form." It's a duality. -- "Emptiness is not different from form. Form is not different from emptiness".

In practical tems,, the way we often use the concept,, "Through service to others,,, we serve the One God." This may be thought to mean we serve Him via the creation,, but in actual truth,, there is no differance.

So, one may believe one is serving God by way of serving people, but search a little higher in understanding, and discover, its the same thing and not just something God wants us to do as a service to Him and your growth. In actual truth you are serving God when you serve his creation.-- otherwise why the precept, "Service"

This is the reason, in the Holy Books... it is told.. "How can one hate your neighbor and love God?" Or.. "How can one misunderstand the things of this world, and understand the things of the next? Ie Jesus said, 'I tell you of the things of this world and you don't understand, .. so how can you understand the things of the next?'".. Because both are the same thing.

Yes. From his posts, we see that dedicate grasped the idea of Oneness.

Love&Peace

[loveisthelaw]

There is nothing in the universe besides God, because it is the only thing that can be known. However, it is not a creation. But, what you see on a creation is Him (from a limited perspective). So, Him but not Himself. There is lots of information about this on our website.

Love&Peace

Thanks, I just want to ensure I understand your use of English correctly.

[nickos]

he was elected 'king of the world',by the angels.nobody could understand it but jesus so he became god.poisonally i see 'god' means 'all angels'.it makes more sense.

[shankers]

Lol. Yes.

Actually, both operations are correct. According to Ibn Arabi, multiplication refers to manifestations of God. So, there might be a billion people, but they are all the manifestation of the one. 1x1x1....=1

Addition however is only valid in duality. You can't count God, because He is in and out of the Universe at the same time.

Love&Peace

The doctrine of the Trinity, like that of the Incarnation (and, actually, just about every other 'key' doctrine of Christianity) is a paradox (otherwise known as a 'contradiction', if you're feeling less charitable).

The Trinity is not 1 God expressed in 3 different ways. This 'heresy' is called 'modalism', for it reduces the reality of the Trinity, of the experience the faithful have of there being three 'persons'.

The Trinity is also not 1 God unfolding in 3 different ways. This is known as 'economic' Trinitarianism (see the author Tertullian) and is now regarded as a heresy.

There are not 3 gods, for this would be polytheism. Christianity is monotheistic.

The most 'orthodox' way is that of Gregory of Nyssa, a Church Father, to get around there being 3 Gods is to invoke Greek philosophical concepts, of 'ousia' (nature) and 'hypostases' (persons). The latter are 'instantiated' examples of the former. I am a hypostasised example of the generic ousia of a human being. The father, son and holy spirit are three hypostasised examples of the divine essence. There is one God (divine ousia) in three persons (three hypostases). This is a neat solution, except for the fact that I, you and the bloke down the road really are three, separate things. Why, then, are there not three gods?

[thereisonlywe]

The doctrine of the Trinity, like that of the Incarnation (and, actually, just about every other 'key' doctrine of Christianity) is a paradox (otherwise known as a 'contradiction', if you're feeling less charitable).

The Trinity is not 1 God expressed in 3 different ways. This 'heresy' is called 'modalism', for it reduces the reality of the Trinity, of the experience the faithful have of there being three 'persons'.

The Trinity is also not 1 God unfolding in 3 different ways. This is known as 'economic' Trinitarianism (see the author Tertullian) and is now regarded as a heresy.

There are not 3 gods, for this would be polytheism. Christianity is monotheistic.

The most 'orthodox' way is that of Gregory of Nyssa, a Church Father, to get around there being 3 Gods is to invoke Greek philosophical concepts, of 'ousia' (nature) and 'hypostases' (persons). The latter are 'instantiated' examples of the former. I am a hypostasised example of the generic ousia of a human being. The father, son and holy spirit are three hypostasised examples of the divine essence. There is one God (divine ousia) in three persons (three hypostases). This is a neat solution, except for the fact that I, you and the bloke down the road really are three, separate things. Why, then, are there not three gods?

Separate to whom? To you or to the road? : )

If you read the first lesson on our website, hopefully the conflict will disappear.

Love&Peace

[shankers]

Separate to whom? To you or to the road? : )

If you read the first lesson on our website, hopefully the conflict will disappear.

Love&Peace

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