Five Keys to Remove the Jesus Shackles

[f13ticket]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles. This is something that many people may find difficult to accept. I hope that this article respects all people as it denounces deception. There are five points here I will make that illustrate this truth.

First, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed as a flesh and bone man.

Second, the Jesus character is the personification of the sun.

Third, the Jesus story is a repeating of the many stories of the many Pagan Sun Gods that preceded it.

Fourth, early Christians never spoke of Jesus as a flesh and blood man.

Five, the goal of attempting to historize Jesus is to pervert Spirituality and create a prison religion to control with.

It is best people research for themselves. I have passed onto you five keys that unlock these shackles. Keys that are very painful for many to turn. So, I leave it to you to turn them. My goal is not to save you as you do not need saving. (Read “Salvation, Damnation, Worship, and Ritual”) My goal is to show you keys and let you alone to do with them what you will.

[egozero]

[ ] evidence

[mind1universe]

your the guy that just rolls his mouth and eyes to what you want to hear, see and read.

There is plenty of evidence to show he existed. Your just not awake or truly seeing yet. Nor do you know Jesus and what his life was about. His real name was Yeshua. He was here 2000 years ago. I would even safely say you probably haven't don't actual research or finding real truth. It seems so obvious your following this "new age movement" or "cool movement" or some other radical religion to try give this impression your above the laws of this universe.

The Jesus in the modern day bible is fabricated. They use Jesus teachings to reign over the world and still manage to create hell on earth at the same time. It's a bit of a concution and contradiction. The point is to have pictures of Jesus in the Vatican and him represented everywhere, but in reality the Vatican goes and kills millions of people worldwide. So when the real truth does come out about the Vatican people will blame Christ. That's the deception. They can't all play god in this reality. Only one will take it all to the very end. The vatican doesn't want you to believe in Jesus and they are so happy you wrote this tripe also. Because its his name that gets blackened and thats the whole agenda behind the Vatican. Rome has made sure the world centres it and for you to follow it.

The fallen angels want us to believe Jesus to be a martyr or an fantasized illusion but yet still preach his teachings and give the impression of telling the world they too follow Christ. Which doesn't make any sense whatsoever other than giving the ultimate decpetion. So it's up to you to try figure this out. Because to say Jesus doesn't exist implies how little you understand about this universe, creation and what love really is. The truth is within not out there.

They are demons who need to use Jesus image to try and look in some way the immatation of his power and truth.

Remeber David claimed to be the son of god. Jesus never brought this ego attention to himself. Jesus did his work for love, not for money. Jesus wrote his words from his heart, not for book sales.

Yet the irony in this world, that people are falling for the deception to think that Jesus didn't exist. Jesus knew what mattered. He said everything matters. To say Jesus never existed is like saying this universe is a black hole. It's pretty much saying there is no centre or backbone to this universe.

Yeshua is the one and only. I am that i AM.

[unenlightened_waffle]

Why do people obsess about this topic of Jesus existing or not existing. Why does it matter whether a man lived or did not live 2000 years ago.

What the new testament was for me was a philosophical guide book of how to live and brilliant imo, it does not make me want to listen to a pedo and eat crackers but it does make me want to improve my life and be more helpful to people.

and is that not the point? Too much is made of religion, be greedy - have them all! There is wisdom in all of them.

[godgoo]

Sin and he will carry you. Footprints.

One night I had a dream. I was walking along the beach with the Lord, and across the skies flashed scenes of my life. In each scene I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand. One was mine, and one was the Lord's. When the last scene of my life appeared before me,I looked back at the footprints in the sand, and to my surprise I noticed that many times along the path of my life there was only one set of footprints, and I noticed that it was at the lowest and saddest times in my life. I asked the Lord about it:
"Lord you said that once I decided to follow you, you would walk with me all the way. But I notice that during the most troublesome times in my life there is only one set of footprints. I don't understand why you left my side when I needed you most."

The Lord said: "My precious child, I never left you during your time of trial.
Where you see only one set of footprints, I was carrying you."

See,

[da1reppinqnz]

this guys an idiot...preaching about jesus.. u ignore the facts ...jesus is just a misinterpetation of the Sun...man your confined to this made up man like hes done something for u..why?...what has he done for u ? Not a damned thing..And if u believe he did your living in a fantasy , a fantasy that the bible has created for u..You say this man your the guy that just rolls his mouth and eyes to what you want to hear, see and read......Are u not doing the same?

[phildee3]

Why does it matter whether a man lived or did not live 2000 years ago.



It doesn't.
It matters that he died.

http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19220827p01.html

[clachan]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles. This is something that many people may find difficult to accept. I hope that this article respects all people as it denounces deception. There are five points here I will make that illustrate this truth.

First, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed as a flesh and bone man.

Second, the Jesus character is the personification of the sun.

Third, the Jesus story is a repeating of the many stories of the many Pagan Sun Gods that preceded it.

Fourth, early Christians never spoke of Jesus as a flesh and blood man.

Five, the goal of attempting to historize Jesus is to pervert Spirituality and create a prison religion to control with.

It is best people research for themselves. I have passed onto you five keys that unlock these shackles. Keys that are very painful for many to turn. So, I leave it to you to turn them. My goal is not to save you as you do not need saving. (Read “Salvation, Damnation, Worship, and Ritual”) My goal is to show you keys and let you alone to do with them what you will.

1. So what,its all in the teachings

2.Yes,Jesus has been hijacked by wrong doers,but again so what.
His teachings have reached us regardless.

3.Same answer sa No 2

4.You dont know that just as you dont know he did not exist,so why should we believe you ?

5.Yes,the church is a spiritual prison,but again,so what,we all know that.

So actually,you have no keys,just a repetition of other old theories put forward by others who consider themselves "enlightened".

[unenlightened_waffle]

It doesn't.
It matters that he died.

http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19220827p01.html

Ha! suprisingly I have already read this a while back, I love Steiner stuff, although he is beyond me too much for me to understand alot of his work.

How to know the higher worlds is a fantastic book, if you have not already read it, but again very difficult to achieve.

I also read a book... Samuel Auon Weon (sp??) which said that he is still alive just vibrating at a different level and is teaching in Tibet.

[phildee3]

Ha! suprisingly I have already read this a while back, I love Steiner stuff, although he is beyond me too much for me to understand alot of his work.

How to know the higher worlds is a fantastic book, if you have not already read it, but again very difficult to achieve.

I also read a book... Samuel Auon Weon (sp??) which said that he is still alive just vibrating at a different level and is teaching in Tibet.

Sure - why not,
and if bilocation happens, and there are plenty of examples of that, then multi-location for him would be a breeze!

When the Eucharist is performed correctly s/he is fully present there.

[himitsunomiko]

uhm, from what I understand, he was persecuted for what he was teaching.

He was teaching enlightenment through conciousness awareness. Something of Christosm which is where they came up with naming him jesus christ.

If you compare that to chrishna conciousness, it seems as if he was preaching the same conciousness as practiced by followers of krishna.

[unenlightened_waffle]

Sure - why not,
and if bilocation happens, and there are plenty of examples of that, then multi-location for him would be a breeze!

When the Eucharist is performed correctly s/he is fully present there.

I am interested to know what sort of experience you have had? I have never been religious too much so am not sure what you would get from it.

and she?

[phildee3]

I am interested to know what sort of experience you have had?



Sorry. You can't.
You can only know your experience.
The only way to experience the christos is to invite and earnestly seek.



and she?



Not she, but s/he - the perfect balance of all polarities - the divine union - the merging of two into an androgynous One which is the nature and essence of Godhead itself.

[unenlightened_waffle]

Sorry. You can't.
You can only know your experience.
The only way to experience the christos is to invite and earnestly seek.



Not she but s/he - the perfect balance of all polarities - the divine union - the merging of two into an androgynous One which is the nature and essence of Godhead itself.

That is fair enough, I have been recently trying to explain matters of the heart into words but it just does not work. understand the s/he bit, says similar stuff in the Hermetica.

[phildee3]

That is fair enough, I have been recently trying to explain matters of the heart into words but it just does not work. understand the s/he bit, says similar stuff in the Hermetica.

Maria Magdalena, who was a manifestation of the feminine aspect of the christos (as Jesus was the masculine) experienced the passion equally in her own way. They were One.
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTk0Mjg3NTE0MV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNjQ0OTM3._V1._ SX485_SY317_.jpg

[azureangel]

Why do people obsess about this topic of Jesus existing or not existing. Why does it matter whether a man lived or did not live 2000 years ago.

What the new testament was for me was a philosophical guide book of how to live and brilliant imo, it does not make me want to listen to a pedo and eat crackers but it does make me want to improve my life and be more helpful to people.

and is that not the point? Too much is made of religion, be greedy - have them all! There is wisdom in all of them.

In my case I read this thread because I have a dear friend who is still caught up in the Christian dogmatic myth. He's in a bit of a contradiction because he's seen a lot and knows there's more to it, (who's really in control economically, illuminati, etc.,) but still goes back to the "heaven and hell" stuff, satan and all that, of course Jesus as spun in the bible is important to him. He's a very compassionate and open-minded person and very rare to find. Hows this: I believe that Jesus was nobody and probably several different people who came to help us find our own abilities. The bible is a totally spun document. Hate that thing in general. Do agree that new testament had some good basic rules of living though. Old testament, bunch of encoded history and controlling crap. My main problem with religions is each one thinks only their group is the "saved" one. All have what I'd describe as good, compassionate folks and all have others. What I detest the most is the concept that Jesus "died for our sins". This makes no sense no matter which way you frame it. OK I'm done. Love, angel

[unenlightened_waffle]

Maria Magdalena, who was a manifestation of the feminine aspect of the christos (as Jesus was the masculine) experienced the passion equally in her own way. They were One.

They became one, or were already one? Or do you mean they both achieved the christ consciousness? and were in a sense the same, like perhaps we all are?

If that makes any sense.

[phildee3]

They became one, or were already one? Or do you mean they both achieved the christ consciousness? and were in a sense the same, like perhaps we all are?

If that makes any sense.

Yes.
Good questions,
and I think the answers will only be meaningful if we each discover them within ourselves.

But I will say that the Gospel stories seem to be all about initiations - ie. becoming.

Have to go now - g'night.

[unenlightened_waffle]

In my case I read this thread because I have a dear friend who is still caught up in the Christian dogmatic myth. He's in a bit of a contradiction because he's seen a lot and knows there's more to it, (who's really in control economically, illuminati, etc.,) but still goes back to the "heaven and hell" stuff, satan and all that, of course Jesus as spun in the bible is important to him. He's a very compassionate and open-minded person and very rare to find. Hows this: I believe that Jesus was nobody and probably several different people who came to help us find our own abilities. The bible is a totally spun document. Hate that thing in general. Do agree that new testament had some good basic rules of living though. Old testament, bunch of encoded history and controlling crap. My main problem with religions is each one thinks only their group is the "saved" one. All have what I'd describe as good, compassionate folks and all have others. What I detest the most is the concept that Jesus "died for our sins". This makes no sense no matter which way you frame it. OK I'm done. Love, angel

Agree with you about the old testament, I think Genesis is a good base but the rest of it full of contradictions, especially love the bit that says if you kill you should be stoned to death does that mean the people doing the stoning should be stoned? good way for population control perhaps. :rolleyes:

I should have been more specific about religion, I meant the religious texts not the perversions that people have used for control.

I find it is all about securitys, people have the need to base there life around something but sadly I think people need to remove all securitys except there own reason and heart... if that makes sense. :)

[unenlightened_waffle]

Yes.
Good questions,
and I think the answers will only be meaningful if we each discover them within ourselves.

But I will say that the Gospel stories seem to be all about initiations - ie. becoming.

Have to go now - g'night.

Agree, good night.

[phildee3]

Agree, good night.

Blessings...

[ufochick]

Why do people obsess about this topic of Jesus existing or not existing. Why does it matter whether a man lived or did not live 2000 years ago.

What the new testament was for me was a philosophical guide book of how to live and brilliant imo, it does not make me want to listen to a pedo and eat crackers but it does make me want to improve my life and be more helpful to people.

and is that not the point? Too much is made of religion, be greedy - have them all! There is wisdom in all of them.

I live in the US in what is called the "Bible Belt". After an enlightening chat in the forum chat here the other night I realized people from other countries don't understand what evangelistic christians are or behave like.

Evangelistic Christians come from many different churches but have SIMILAR beliefs. All believe in absolute fear of God. Here is a list of rules I have personally learned from the EC folks from a mix of churches.

One may not (depending on doctrine);
dance
drink
date unescorted until marriage
kiss
have children of different sexes in one swimming pool at the same time
ladies/girls-ever wear anything but a dress below the knee
men may never wear shorts
wear a bathing suit/swimming is done in clothes as well as segregated
adult/teen may not be in a room alone with someone of the other sex other than a wife
no caffiene no chocolate other dietary rules
no jewelry of any kind for women including wedding rings


Other things include an absolute belief that satan can make you do things and is actually responsible for bad choices.
ALL gay people will go to hell unless they remounce themselves as sinners and become hetrosexuals.
That children can be evil and should at times have the devil BEAT out of them or starved out.
That the rapture is real and Christ is going to come down from the heavens on a horse (or horseless depending on the church) and the followers clothing will fall off they will be given new bodies and all the other people (AND animals will stay on a burning or hell like earth.
That if you do not believe the blood of the lamb (Jesus) saves you and takes care of all your sins and if Christ is not the focal point and savior in your life you will go to hell forever.

Saved by the blood of the lamb... that's a common statement here. If you don't accept Christ's sacrifice on the cross and accept he died just for your sin you will go to hell and be punished forever.

They believe anything unexplained is from satan. If you mention anything outside their realm of possibility they cut you off claiming it's the devil's work and the conversation is over.

The earth was created 6 thousand years ago, people rode on dinos, there is a museum to prove it, a large one.

There is no other life and the earth is the center of the unniverse.

I am sure I have missed a few important points but I got the jest of it. It is a controlling and violent religion. Televangulists keep it going talking daily of the rapture and hell and telling people to send them money to save themselves and people are so brainwashed they do.

They fight amongst themselves about whether God and Christ are one or there is a trinity.

About 1/3 of the US claim to be evangelistic, THAT is the danger of Christianity. It has been used by those in power to gain control over people and completely control their lives in ever way and it has worked. Who needs 1984? just make everything a sin in a society where other Christians will shun you for breaking the rules and you have the same thing.

It's also the reason the US fights UFO disclosure, loss of control and suicides.

[bougz]

Anyone watching the real face of Jesus program on history channel? They haven't showed him yet! Just science facts and such...building up the hype of the show till the end then they will show him for like 5 mins or something like that!

[unenlightened_waffle]

I live in the US in what is called the "Bible Belt". After an enlightening chat in the forum chat here the other night I realized people from other countries don't understand what evangelistic christians are or behave like.

Evangelistic Christians come from many different churches but have SIMILAR beliefs. All believe in absolute fear of God. Here is a list of rules I have personally learned from the EC folks from a mix of churches.

One may not (depending on doctrine);
dance
drink
date unescorted until marriage
kiss
have children of different sexes in one swimming pool at the same time
ladies/girls-ever wear anything but a dress below the knee
men may never wear shorts
wear a bathing suit/swimming is done in clothes as well as segregated
adult/teen may not be in a room alone with someone of the other sex other than a wife
no caffiene no chocolate other dietary rules
no jewelry of any kind for women including wedding rings


Other things include an absolute belief that satan can make you do things and is actually responsible for bad choices.
ALL gay people will go to hell unless they remounce themselves as sinners and become hetrosexuals.
That children can be evil and should at times have the devil BEAT out of them or starved out.
That the rapture is real and Christ is going to come down from the heavens on a horse (or horseless depending on the church) and the followers clothing will fall off they will be given new bodies and all the other people (AND animals will stay on a burning or hell like earth.
That if you do not believe the blood of the lamb (Jesus) saves you and takes care of all your sins and if Christ is not the focal point and savior in your life you will go to hell forever.

Saved by the blood of the lamb... that's a common statement here. If you don't accept Christ's sacrifice on the cross and accept he died just for your sin you will go to hell and be punished forever.

They believe anything unexplained is from satan. If you mention anything outside their realm of possibility they cut you off claiming it's the devil's work and the conversation is over.

The earth was created 6 thousand years ago, people rode on dinos, there is a museum to prove it, a large one.

There is no other life and the earth is the center of the unniverse.

I am sure I have missed a few important points but I got the jest of it. It is a controlling and violent religion. Televangulists keep it going talking daily of the rapture and hell and telling people to send them money to save themselves and people are so brainwashed they do.

They fight amongst themselves about whether God and Christ are one or there is a trinity.

About 1/3 of the US claim to be evangelistic, THAT is the danger of Christianity. It has been used by those in power to gain control over people and completely control their lives in ever way and it has worked. Who needs 1984? just make everything a sin in a society where other Christians will shun you for breaking the rules and you have the same thing.

It's also the reason the US fights UFO disclosure, loss of control and suicides.

And to my memory it says nothing of any of this in the new testament, so people who follow something blindly because they cannot be bothered to read 1 widely available book?

A sad state of affairs, the big problem is society, everywhere someone turns there is corruption. When people start to look inwards instead of outwards we will have a society to be proud of and no need for religion.

[phildee3]

THAT is the danger of Christianity.



THAT is NOT Christianity.
It is Satanism, wearing a label "Christianity."

[clachan]

THAT is NOT Christianity.
It is Satanism, wearing a label "Christianity."

That needed saying.

[ufochick]

THAT is NOT Christianity.
It is Satanism, wearing a label "Christianity."

Depends on how you think of the word Christianity I suppose. The people who follow Christ here in the states pray to him, interpret the book about him in the best way they know how and avoid satan. So how does that add up to satanism?

IF one can step back away from the whole thing then it's easy to see what is happening. Worship and prayer are forms of energy. We bestow energy in whatever form (hate, love etc) by our emotional outpourings to deities. That energy because it is sent to a "source"... being the deity involved, forms a "pool" of energy easily available to those who can access it.

That energy is then accessed by certain rituals. In ceramonial magic certain measurements and substances are used. These along with learning to align one's power with these pools of energy allow access to them. Eventually it is my belief that science will catch up with religion and there will be evidence of exactly how this energy is accessed. But I bet that won't be on the nightly news LOL.

Christianity in itself creates a HUGE energy pool. Christianity is a part of satanism. Without Christianity satanism would not exist. Every time a Christian or satanist gives power to either (satan or jesus) they are adding to the pool of energy available to those who know how to use it.

The problem is that without meaning to people are creating these huge pools of energy that are available to the people who would do ill with them as well as the people who would do good with them. There is no reason for these pools to exist.


I am not a Christian, I do however get really tired of one Christian telling another they are not one. That is obsurd. If a person believes that Christ is a God seperate from or the same as the father God and prays to him they are Christian. the outer expressions of that faith are just that, individual ways to show that faith.


If people would take the energy they GIVE to deity and send it towards a worthy result things would be much better in the world.

But if nothing else to the Christians here please stop the "OH THAT'S NOT CHRISTIANITY!!!!" crap.... If one worships Jesus one is Christian. OH and while you are saying OH NO!!! how about this? If one worships satan is he or she a satanist? they are right? no questions about HOW they worship right? nothing else matters right? why the difference?

Until people wake up and realize that giving their energy away to make themselves feel less guilty and less responsible is meaningless and harmful to the world things will be much harder to change.

[himitsunomiko]

That needed saying.

so we agreed the whole time.

[himitsunomiko]

from my gatherings, it seems that the name Satan came from Sanatan, which is Sanatan Dharma.

Jesus was a prophet whos story was given god status to get people to worship him. And really, if he died, its disgusting ritualistic magic murder, I am sure.

Jesus IS Lucifer the light bearer. So, is jesus evil too? Or, have they found a way for people to secretly worship their evil god by making people convinced that the right way is the wrong way?

PARADOX LOX THE MIND.

[phildee3]

But if nothing else to the Christians here please stop the "OH THAT'S NOT CHRISTIANITY!!!!" crap.... If one worships Jesus one is Christian.



It wasn't me that said it -
'twas the man himself:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21


If I open a can that says "beans," and there's nothing in there but worms, I ain't gonna eat 'em, baby. Sorry!

[clachan]

Depends on how you think of the word Christianity I suppose. The people who follow Christ here in the states pray to him, interpret the book about him in the best way they know how and avoid satan. So how does that add up to satanism?

IF one can step back away from the whole thing then it's easy to see what is happening. Worship and prayer are forms of energy. We bestow energy in whatever form (hate, love etc) by our emotional outpourings to deities. That energy because it is sent to a "source"... being the deity involved, forms a "pool" of energy easily available to those who can access it.

That energy is then accessed by certain rituals. In ceramonial magic certain measurements and substances are used. These along with learning to align one's power with these pools of energy allow access to them. Eventually it is my belief that science will catch up with religion and there will be evidence of exactly how this energy is accessed. But I bet that won't be on the nightly news LOL.

Christianity in itself creates a HUGE energy pool. Christianity is a part of satanism. Without Christianity satanism would not exist. Every time a Christian or satanist gives power to either (satan or jesus) they are adding to the pool of energy available to those who know how to use it.

The problem is that without meaning to people are creating these huge pools of energy that are available to the people who would do ill with them as well as the people who would do good with them. There is no reason for these pools to exist.


I am not a Christian, I do however get really tired of one Christian telling another they are not one. That is obsurd. If a person believes that Christ is a God seperate from or the same as the father God and prays to him they are Christian. the outer expressions of that faith are just that, individual ways to show that faith.


If people would take the energy they GIVE to deity and send it towards a worthy result things would be much better in the world.

But if nothing else to the Christians here please stop the "OH THAT'S NOT CHRISTIANITY!!!!" crap.... If one worships Jesus one is Christian. OH and while you are saying OH NO!!! how about this? If one worships satan is he or she a satanist? they are right? no questions about HOW they worship right? nothing else matters right? why the difference?

Until people wake up and realize that giving their energy away to make themselves feel less guilty and less responsible is meaningless and harmful to the world things will be much harder to change.

The 1st horse man of the apocalypse,false Christ/counterfit...just like gold and "fools gold" look identical at first glance, so it is with many of todays churches.

Amongst other things Christ was a spirital teacher from the highest level,you only have to study his words carefully to see that.
After 2000 years his words are still relevent today,in fact even more so than ever.

Your post indicates to me that you also offer spiritual guideance,but Im not sure weather yours will last too long.Christ gives humanity hope in a world that is fast heading towards what can only be described as living hell.
And no amount of new age BS will stop it,in fact it,ll probably hasten its arrival.

[clachan]

so we agreed the whole time.

On some things,yes.But no 2 people can ever agree on everything.The world would be a boring place if they did,no one would bother to think.

[ufochick]

The 1st horse man of the apocalypse,false Christ/counterfit...just like gold and "fools gold" look identical at first glance, so it is with many of todays churches.

Amongst other things Christ was a spirital teacher from the highest level,you only have to study his words carefully to see that.
After 2000 years his words are still relevent today,in fact even more so than ever.

Your post indicates to me that you also offer spiritual guideance,but Im not sure weather yours will last too long.Christ gives humanity hope in a world that is fast heading towards what can only be described as living hell.
And no amount of new age BS will stop it,in fact it,ll probably hasten its arrival.

How did you get spiritual giudence out of my post? I am the very last one who wants to offer spiritual guidence... I simply am asking people to realize what they are doing while they are doing it.

[clachan]

How did you get spiritual giudence out of my post? I am the very last one who wants to offer spiritual guidence... I simply am asking people to realize what they are doing while they are doing it.

No,you were telling people whats what concerning spiritual matters,is that not a form of preaching ?

If you read your own post again you,ll see it.

No offence meant BTW.

[himitsunomiko]

wooooahhhh

what was christ teaching then, clachan?

[delamo1999]

your the guy that just rolls his mouth and eyes to what you want to hear, see and read.

There is plenty of evidence to show he existed. Your just not awake or truly seeing yet. Nor do you know Jesus and what his life was about. His real name was Yeshua. He was here 2000 years ago. I would even safely say you probably haven't don't actual research or finding real truth. It seems so obvious your following this "new age movement" or "cool movement" or some other radical religion to try give this impression your above the laws of this universe.

The Jesus in the modern day bible is fabricated. They use Jesus teachings to reign over the world and still manage to create hell on earth at the same time. It's a bit of a concution and contradiction. The point is to have pictures of Jesus in the Vatican and him represented everywhere, but in reality the Vatican goes and kills millions of people worldwide. So when the real truth does come out about the Vatican people will blame Christ. That's the deception. They can't all play god in this reality. Only one will take it all to the very end. The vatican doesn't want you to believe in Jesus and they are so happy you wrote this tripe also. Because its his name that gets blackened and thats the whole agenda behind the Vatican. Rome has made sure the world centres it and for you to follow it.

The fallen angels want us to believe Jesus to be a martyr or an fantasized illusion but yet still preach his teachings and give the impression of telling the world they too follow Christ. Which doesn't make any sense whatsoever other than giving the ultimate decpetion. So it's up to you to try figure this out. Because to say Jesus doesn't exist implies how little you understand about this universe, creation and what love really is. The truth is within not out there.

They are demons who need to use Jesus image to try and look in some way the immatation of his power and truth.

Remeber David claimed to be the son of god. Jesus never brought this ego attention to himself. Jesus did his work for love, not for money. Jesus wrote his words from his heart, not for book sales.

Yet the irony in this world, that people are falling for the deception to think that Jesus didn't exist. Jesus knew what mattered. He said everything matters. To say Jesus never existed is like saying this universe is a black hole. It's pretty much saying there is no centre or backbone to this universe.

Yeshua is the one and only. I am that i AM.


I pretty much don't buy into the story that Jesus existed. I agree with you about the whole thing being fabricated.
But I am interested in finding out more about Yeshua. Can you provide for me some links to some documentaries so that I can check them out?


:):)

[danster82]

There is one major problem with all your points.

Your looking only at superficial and to me irrelevant points, each point was irrelevant, why? well because it has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with physical, literal interpretations.

The only thing that is important about Jesus is the teachings, I would find a debunking of Jesus's teachings far more interesting.

The teaching is what matters nothing else matters because nothing else has anything to do with the truth does it? the catholic church doesnt matter the murder by Christian crusades doesnt matter, fundamental nuts do not matter this is all the result of human ego taking truth and turning it into its sense of identity and then protecting and attacking what it has chose to identify with.

So certainly it would be worth while removing the shackles of the corruption of the message of Jesus by the catholic church and other monolithic structures, this is really what people hate about Jesus and rightly so because its disgusting and repulsive, but most people who have successfully seen this have never also demonstrated any understanding of Jesus's true teachings.

And so really they are suckers just like the catholic church.

[clachan]

wooooahhhh

what was christ teaching then, clachan?

What,s that got to do with cadbury,s cream eggs ?

[acharlatani]

I think you should listen to the original thread maker, he is right. You should all read the gods of eden by william bramley, compelling reading which will open your eyes. Christianity, Jesus etc, all used as a form of control, wake up people............... happy easter

[clachan]

I think you should listen to the original thread maker, he is right. You should all read the gods of eden by william bramley, compelling reading which will open your eyes. Christianity, Jesus etc, all used as a form of control, wake up people............... happy easter

Well,Iam as free as you or any other poster here.I find the teachings of the greatest spirital being that ever walked the earth very liberating.

As far as the prison religions go I pay no attention to their dogmas.

Neither did Jesus in his day really.

[alexc]

Ahhh, Satan's old trick of trying to get us to focus on a "historical Jesus" of his own design instead of the Jesus of the Bible.

Keep babbling Satanist. No one in Christ's fellowship is listening.

[phildee3]

Ahhh, Satan's old trick of trying to get us to focus on a "historical Jesus" of his own design instead of the Jesus of the Bible.



The incarnation was Satan's plan?
That's a new one.

[alexc]

The incarnation was Satan's plan?
That's a new one.

No, Satan's plan is to get people to spend their time bickering about what constitutes a "historical Jesus" and ignore the Bible in the process. Stupid debates about if Jesus "really" existed or what he "really" looked like are all distractions from the spiritual path God wants us to follow.

[himitsunomiko]

LOLOL It's like watching kids bickering!!

[phildee3]

LOLOL It's like watching kids bickering!!

Who's bickering?
Alex just clarified what he said wasn't what he meant.

[alexc]

Who's bickering?
Alex just clarified what he said wasn't what he meant

And that's supposed to be a mature response?

[energi]

Jesus Is. And so are You. What's the hold-up?

Bibles are fabricated hallucinations residing in the hive-mind as authority - over what the masses perceive as unfolding of eternity.


In this fabricated point of the illusion known as human history, a Globalist Shitstem.

Be Aware and keep your mind clear and all will unravel before your eyes. Whoever was in charge thought otherwise, but that was then - this is Now.

[phildee3]

And that's supposed to be a mature response?

More mature than bickering. ;)

[himitsunomiko]

Trying to remove Jesus Shackles? Just listen to this song LOL

Vital Remains - Dechristianize - YouTube

[phildee3]

Trying to remove Jesus Shackles? Just listen to this song LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUs2i58iK7Y

Fail.
Jesus knows more than one chord!

[himitsunomiko]

Erm, okay LOL

and, of course the untrained ear cannot appreciate death metal.

[nectars]

Looks like f13ticket has abandoned his thread.

Anyway, I'm not anti-Christian -in fact far from it, but for all those out there who do worship Jesus in any capacity, what would you have to say about the following...

The 10 Commandments

Exodus Chapter 20

1 AND God spoke all these words, saying,

ONE

2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 You shall have no other gods except me.

TWO

4 You shall not make for yourself any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth;

5 You shall not worship them nor serve them; for I the LORD your God am a zealous God, visiting the offenses of the fathers upon their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me;

6 And showing mercy to thousands of generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.


http://www.lamsabible.com/10_commandments.htm

Lamsa translation from the Aramaic Peshitta.

[trev1]

I live in the US in what is called the "Bible Belt". After an enlightening chat in the forum chat here the other night I realized people from other countries don't understand what evangelistic christians are or behave like.

Evangelistic Christians come from many different churches but have SIMILAR beliefs. All believe in absolute fear of God. Here is a list of rules I have personally learned from the EC folks from a mix of churches.

One may not (depending on doctrine);
dance
drink
date unescorted until marriage
kiss
have children of different sexes in one swimming pool at the same time
ladies/girls-ever wear anything but a dress below the knee
men may never wear shorts
wear a bathing suit/swimming is done in clothes as well as segregated
adult/teen may not be in a room alone with someone of the other sex other than a wife
no caffiene no chocolate other dietary rules
no jewelry of any kind for women including wedding rings


Other things include an absolute belief that satan can make you do things and is actually responsible for bad choices.
ALL gay people will go to hell unless they remounce themselves as sinners and become hetrosexuals.
That children can be evil and should at times have the devil BEAT out of them or starved out.
That the rapture is real and Christ is going to come down from the heavens on a horse (or horseless depending on the church) and the followers clothing will fall off they will be given new bodies and all the other people (AND animals will stay on a burning or hell like earth.
That if you do not believe the blood of the lamb (Jesus) saves you and takes care of all your sins and if Christ is not the focal point and savior in your life you will go to hell forever.

Saved by the blood of the lamb... that's a common statement here. If you don't accept Christ's sacrifice on the cross and accept he died just for your sin you will go to hell and be punished forever.

They believe anything unexplained is from satan. If you mention anything outside their realm of possibility they cut you off claiming it's the devil's work and the conversation is over.

The earth was created 6 thousand years ago, people rode on dinos, there is a museum to prove it, a large one.

There is no other life and the earth is the center of the unniverse.

I am sure I have missed a few important points but I got the jest of it. It is a controlling and violent religion. Televangulists keep it going talking daily of the rapture and hell and telling people to send them money to save themselves and people are so brainwashed they do.

They fight amongst themselves about whether God and Christ are one or there is a trinity.

About 1/3 of the US claim to be evangelistic, THAT is the danger of Christianity. It has been used by those in power to gain control over people and completely control their lives in ever way and it has worked. Who needs 1984? just make everything a sin in a society where other Christians will shun you for breaking the rules and you have the same thing.

It's also the reason the US fights UFO disclosure, loss of control and suicides.

Evangelistic Christians are very very dangerous IMO....

I watched the documentary 'Jesus Camp' recently and the way they
indoctrinate their kids is a crime against the human mind :mad:

[bendoon]

Evangelistic Christians are very very dangerous IMO....

I watched the documentary 'Jesus Camp' recently and the way they
indoctrinate their kids is a crime against the human mind :mad:

What about all the atheists kids who go round dealing drugs and mugging people. Somtimes people need to get things into perspective, although I think the so called Evangelicals are a bit way out their children seem to be fairly well behaved on the whole.

[phildee3]

What about all the atheists kids who go round dealing drugs and mugging people. Somtimes people need to get things into perspective, although I think the so called Evangelicals are a bit way out their children seem to be fairly well behaved on the whole.

So are labotomised rats.

[trev1]

What about all the atheists kids who go round dealing drugs and mugging people. Somtimes people need to get things into perspective, although I think the so called Evangelicals are a bit way out their children seem to be fairly well behaved on the whole.


Whether there mugging people or dealing drugs has nothing to do with them
being atheist or not. Its to do with the environment/community/parentage
that they have ....

Evangelicals are dangerous becuase if you dont believe in Jesus like they do
they think your following Satan and are on your way to hell. Total, 100%
Brainwashing :mad:

[bendoon]

Its to do with the environment/community/parentage
that they have

Precisely, if they had been brought up with Christian values they wouldn't be out terrorising other people and engaging in promiscuity, spreading diseaese and causing unwanted pregnancies.

So are labotomised rats.

Like the ones who have been through the mainstream secular education/ TV brainwashing ?

[phildee3]

Precisely, if they had been brought up with Christian values



But evangelicals are not.
They are killers.

[pythaem]

Precisely, if they had been brought up with Christian values they wouldn't be out terrorising other people and engaging in promiscuity, spreading diseaese and causing unwanted pregnancies.
?

Or, if they had been taught healthy values, period.

[theperceivingeye]

So I'm supposed to believe (according to the jesus freaks on this thread) that a baby-murdering, raping and pillaging god (jehovah, elohim, yeshua, whatever) found his most concentrated and pure expression in a being who told us to love our neighbors?

If you can't see that the bible is an extremely poor-patch job... your probably an idiot.

And how do we know the "words of jesus" in the bible, as relayed to us almost 60 years after his supposed death in all cases, are the actual words of said being???

[bendoon]

But evangelicals are not.
They are killers.

Yes, they are out every night doing drive by shootings :rolleyes:

[phildee3]

Yes, they are out every night doing drive by shootings :rolleyes:

Worse than that.

Much!

[innerlight]

I just turned my water into a Rum and Coke.

Does that qualify as a miracle and can I demand hero worship :)

[trauma]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles. This is something that many people may find difficult to accept. I hope that this article respects all people as it denounces deception. There are five points here I will make that illustrate this truth.

First, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed as a flesh and bone man.

Second, the Jesus character is the personification of the sun.

Third, the Jesus story is a repeating of the many stories of the many Pagan Sun Gods that preceded it.

Fourth, early Christians never spoke of Jesus as a flesh and blood man.

Five, the goal of attempting to historize Jesus is to pervert Spirituality and create a prison religion to control with.

It is best people research for themselves. I have passed onto you five keys that unlock these shackles. Keys that are very painful for many to turn. So, I leave it to you to turn them. My goal is not to save you as you do not need saving. (Read “Salvation, Damnation, Worship, and Ritual”) My goal is to show you keys and let you alone to do with them what you will.

I personally think of Jesus as a Metaphor for Activists/Revolutionaries. I don't think Jesus the man existed, but I do believe that these may be a blending of the actions of multiple people from those times. I don't think people were touched and healed of their physical ailments as if this were Final Fantasy, no. To heal a blinded man you show him what he's blind to, to heal a deaf person you let them hear what they've never heard before, etc. The only thing I don't like is that people use Jesus as some sort of middleman...

[infinite_consciousness]

Religion is bullshit. Another tool of the illuminati. My man Carlin says it all too well.

George Carlin - Religion is bullshit. - YouTube

[f13ticket]

There is no physical proof Jesus existed that has not been proven to be a fraud.
Jesus is not in the historical record, aside from one example proven to be a forgery, and thus fraud.
Jesus is clearly a re-casting of Pagan Sun Gods.

The reason I care about this is that people become radicalized when they view him as having been a man. My mother confided in me that she felt bad when watching a television show about a Jewish woman who's family members were killed in NAZI Germany. She told me that she found it sad, but was not sure if she should feel sad for them because she thinks they killed her lord. The Jews did not, and could not have killed Jesus (or got the Romans to do it) because Jesus was not a flesh and blood many in the first place to have been killed. Those of us who know this know how asinine and childish her statement is. But, sadly, I think this is the view of many Christians.

People use the idea of the Jews killing or getting the Romans to kill Jesus as a way to demonize Jews, Romans, and by Romans Pagans. They work themselves up into an emotional frenzy about how angry they are about how their lord was killed. And when it comes times to, "burn the Witches," or, "gas the Jews," it is all of a sudden okay in some Christian's minds because they're just getting even for what these people did to Jesus. A Jesus, again, who never existed. However, the mass amounts of people gassed and burned alive did exist. Killed as a sacrifice to a man that never walked this Earth.

Many would then protest that these are not real Christians because they are killing. Read the Bible, Jehovah likes sacrifice and death. And, to some Christians, they say that thou shalt not kill is thou shalt not murder. They see self defense as not murder. And they see staged events like 9/11 as a justified reason for invading Iraq. A war many Christians are behind. Another Holy War really.

Many Christians fight the Holy Wars because their believe their message, the Bible, is true because they believe Jesus is true. That's why many of them fight and die for their religion. How many people would fight and die for a book that they know is just a symbolic allegory and not a literal and or historical truth? Not very many.

Further, many Christians view Jesus rising from his dead as their salvation from sin. That's why they defend this lie and won't admit the truth that he never existed. Because, if they did, they would be admitting that Jesus rising was never a literal and or historical truth. And, thus, admitting that Jesus paying humanity's price for sin on the cross and by doing offering their salvation from sin was never a literal and or historical truth. This means, to some of them, that they are still guilty for their sins. Some of them have spent a large amount of their time, often sense childhood into adulthood, using this crutch for their salvation. Now, to them, they have to face their sins if Jesus isn't there to save them. Though, with moral relativism, I have stated before that the truth is that there is no empirical salvation nor empirical damnation.

Christians that believe in a flesh and blood Jesus ignore their own history and are easier to radicalize because they think they are fighting for something real and not just a story. This is why it matters whether or not Christians know that Jesus was never a flesh and blood man. They would be less radical if they knew he was simply a story character. Unlike with Buddha, where it does not matter if he ever was a man or not as far as his teachings; the teachings were still the teachings regardless of however they got created. They were separate and did not depend on Buddha having ever existed or not. The teachings did not need Buddha to existed; they stand on their own with or without him. Tell a Buddhist that Buddha was never a real man, and many of them might be offended. But the wise among them would realize it doesn't matter, insofar as the teachings, because the teachings are the teachings; and they have had good, bad, or neutral results from working with the teachings; whether Buddha was really a man or not. But almost any traditional Christian will look at you with hate and contempt if you try to explain to them that Jesus was never a flesh and blood man. Again, because his teachings are tied almost if not entirely with his death and resurrection being falsely believed to be a historical and flesh and bone truth. His teachings, most if not all the New Testament and thus half the Bible, falls on its face and dies in many Christian's eyes when they realize that Jesus was never a flesh and blood man. Because, to them, their salvation depends on it. The book tells them this lie. As do the churches. So, once they realize that the man they think saved them from sin and, "Hell," never existed; in many of their eyes his teachings, the New Testament, half (at least) of the Bible, and their personal ticket out of, "Hell," falls apart. Jesus is the character that holds Christianity together. In many Christian's minds, believing the lie that Jesus was ever flesh and blood man is their only way out of, "Hell." The only way I see to easily and quickly free these types of Christians from the hellish terms they subjugate themselves to under the Christian religion is to make the information easily available to them, if they want it, that the truth of the matter is that Jesus was never a flesh and blood man on this Earth. The sooner they can face this truth and get over their literal and or Historical view of Christianity; the better it will be for all of us. Once this is done, they will be far less radical and cause far less death, sadness, and destruction. And that, truly, would be great.

[acharlatani]

So I'm supposed to believe (according to the jesus freaks on this thread) that a baby-murdering, raping and pillaging god (jehovah, elohim, yeshua, whatever) found his most concentrated and pure expression in a being who told us to love our neighbors?

If you can't see that the bible is an extremely poor-patch job... your probably an idiot.

And how do we know the "words of jesus" in the bible, as relayed to us almost 60 years after his supposed death in all cases, are the actual words of said being???

+1 :) very true!

[bendoon]

Once this is done, they will be far less radical and cause far less death, sadness, and destruction. And that, truly, would be great.

I have some news for you, it may come as a great shock, but the people out on the streets right now as we speak, mugging, murdering, raping, doing drive byes and car jackings and generally terrorising people in a city near you tend in the vast majority of cases to not be Christians. They are almost certainly atheists or agnostics just like you, as were the Communists in Russia and China who killed over 100 million of their fellow citizens.

So if you think the world will get less violent as Christianity declines and Atheism rises you are in for one big shock.

[dragond]

I have some news for you, it may come as a great shock, but the people out on the streets right now as we speak, mugging, murdering, raping, doing drive byes and car jackings and generally terrorising people in a city near you tend in the vast majority of cases to not be Christians. They are almost certainly atheists or agnostics just like you, as were the Communists in Russia and China who killed over 100 million of their fellow citizens.

So if you think the world will get less violent as Christianity declines and Atheism rises you are in for one big shock.

I have better news for you.. they tend to be the first people in the church on sundays.. Can you prove that they are not christians? do u not see the cross hanging round their neck's? oh sorry they are not TRUE christians.. TRUE christians are peacefull right? :rolleyes:


D

[tarant8l]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Sign-of-Jonas/320592229491?ref=ts&v=wall

Matthew 16

4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no
sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and
departed.

[f13ticket]

I have better news for you.. they tend to be the first people in the church on sundays.. Can you prove that they are not christians? do u not see the cross hanging round their neck's? oh sorry they are not TRUE christians.. TRUE christians are peacefull right? :rolleyes:


D

Good point. Here is what the Bible says to do with unbelievers. How is this a peaceful religion in anyone's eyes?

Deuteronomy 13:13-19

"13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, [a] both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. 17 None of those condemned things [b] shall be found in your hands, so that the LORD will turn from his fierce anger; he will show you mercy, have compassion on you, and increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, 18 because you obey the LORD your God, keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes."

Now I see why Christians have no problem at all bombing Iraq. It is the will of their lord, in their view. They are worshiping Allah, not Jehovah. (Even though there is no real difference between the Abrahamic religions in core substance. No more than what there is between Pokemon Red and Pokemon Blue.)

Zephaniah 1:2-6

2 “I will sweep away everything
from the face of the earth,” says the Lord.
3 “I will sweep away people and animals alike.
I will sweep away the birds of the sky and the fish in the sea.
I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble,[a]
and I will wipe humanity from the face of the earth,” says the Lord.
4 “I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist
and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship.
I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests,
so that even the memory of them will disappear.
5 For they go up to their roofs
and bow down to the sun, moon, and stars.
They claim to follow the Lord,
but then they worship Molech,[b] too.
6 And I will destroy those who used to worship me
but now no longer do.
They no longer ask for the Lord’s guidance
or seek my blessings.”

While I do not specifically want to defend the Molech worshipers of the New World Order, I am not going to call for anyone or anything to kill them. Also, if you worship the sun, stars, or moon (almost any Pagan religion) Jehovah plans to kill you. Oh, and by the way, Jesus is a representation of the Sun; and was never a flesh and blood person. So, by worshiping the sun, you too are on Jehovah's hit list.

For more of such passages from the Bible, please visit http://www.evilbible.com/

[phildee3]

Good point. Here is what the Bible says to do with unbelievers. How is this a peaceful religion in anyone's eyes?

Deuteronomy 13:13-19



Deuteronomy is Jewish scripture, not Christian.
The religion that Jesus made redundant.

[f13ticket]

Deuteronomy is Jewish scripture, not Christian.
The religion that Jesus made redundant.

But Jewish scripture is the Old Testament, which is the first part of the Bible, which is Christianity. So, logically, Deuteronomy is both Jewish and Christian. So, to be honest, I am criticizing both the Jewish and Christian religions for this. But America, where I'm at, is far more Christian than Jewish. So, while I view all Abrahamic religions (Jewish, Christian, Muslim) as corrupt, I aim mostly at Christianity with my criticisms as it is both the larger than Judaism and Muslim in the country I live in; and is the one I was raised with.

[bendoon]

But America, where I'm at, is far more Christian than Jewish..

But Jews have more say in the Government than Christians, in fact I would say that Christians have no say whatsoever.

[song of the earth]

I attended church for a while when I was younger & studied the biblical scriptures, I was put in the too hard basket after being honest & asking too many questions that the Pastor couldn't answer, went from one church to another & found the same scenario. Found it difficult to be accepted when I was just being myself, as I have always had been uncoventional.
Being an independent thinker was not encouraged within the church community.
I eventually searched myself for answers & found things fell into place in my life, doors were opened & eventually I left religion behind. All the christian 'friends' I thought I'd made at the time never bothered keeping in contact, though I was always available as a friend to them.
Having kids created a decision in me to never indoctrinate them with religion, they have developed a great respect & understanding for themselves & life, have always taught them to question everything & listen to their hearts.
I have never felt freer than when I deconditioned myself from the mindset of religion.
The Apostle Pauls writings in the bible have always irritated me, I found him to be a total misogynist, though he is basically worshiped within Christianity.
My conclusion is that the truth is within & along the way you meet a few awesome people & hear inspiring words of wisdom.

[phildee3]

But Jewish scripture is the Old Testament, which is the first part of the Bible, which is Christianity. So, logically, Deuteronomy is both Jewish and Christian.



The Bible is no more Christianity than a recipe book is an apple pie.

The OT was Jewish scripture long before Christianity began.
The NT is Christian scripture.

What you call "the Bible" is Judeo-Christian, was an idea of the Romans (in another attempt to kill the unkillable one) over 200 years after the Christian bible had existed independently from the Jewish scriptures - which it negated.

[synergy777]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles. This is something that many people may find difficult to accept. I hope that this article respects all people as it denounces deception. There are five points here I will make that illustrate this truth.

First, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed as a flesh and bone man.

Second, the Jesus character is the personification of the sun.

Third, the Jesus story is a repeating of the many stories of the many Pagan Sun Gods that preceded it.

Fourth, early Christians never spoke of Jesus as a flesh and blood man.

Five, the goal of attempting to historize Jesus is to pervert Spirituality and create a prison religion to control with.

It is best people research for themselves. I have passed onto you five keys that unlock these shackles. Keys that are very painful for many to turn. So, I leave it to you to turn them. My goal is not to save you as you do not need saving. (Read “Salvation, Damnation, Worship, and Ritual”) My goal is to show you keys and let you alone to do with them what you will.

what about the historical figures associated with jesus, eg pilate, herod, saul/paul etc.

also why do satanists/luciferians use images etc of jesus in their rituals, eg when they mock him etc.

[f13ticket]

what about the historical figures associated with jesus, eg pilate, herod, saul/paul etc.

also why do satanists/luciferians use images etc of jesus in their rituals, eg when they mock him etc.

While I have not researched those specific other figures, just because a book tries to associate a character that is created with historical people (not sure if these are as I have not researched them) does not make it true.

There are many levels and types of Satanism. Some of Satanism is really just a different form of Christianity, so to speak. Similar to those who pretend to be Christian and then go worship at Bohemian Grove. Some Satanists believe the lie of Jesus as well. It is a emotional thing they could then use to charge themselves. The same way Christian do it. Just the opposite. Christians pretend a guy who didn't died on the cross and was risen to see their sins as saved. Satanists pretend a guy who didn't died on the cross and that they won.

[phildee3]

While I have not researched those specific other figures, just because a book tries to associate a character that is created with historical people (not sure if these are as I have not researched them) does not make it true.



Isn't that what history is - a partially true account of what actually happened?

[synergy777]

Isn't that what history is - a partially true account of what actually happened?

phildee spot on.

too many people like to use circular logic, but only when it supports their view, lol

[f13ticket]

Isn't that what history is - a partially true account of what actually happened?

No, not at all. History is what did happen, factually and logically, in the past.

It is true, however, that what you get in schools and churches is propaganda; a false history.

David Icke describes it as two movie screens. The agenda movie, and the propaganda movie that is played over it to mask it.

If you resign yourself to believing the propaganda history that is a lie, the history movie that is false that is being projected, then you are believing the lie while thinking it is the truth. (Christianity, US Government, and New World Order Society 101.)

It's not my fault you want to ignore the true history and believe the propaganda history that is a lie as if it is the truth.

[drhemp]

[ ] evidence

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_birthnarrative.html

[phildee3]

No, not at all. History is what did happen, factually and logically, in the past.

It is true, however, that what you get in schools and churches is propaganda; a false history.

David Icke describes it as two movie screens. The agenda movie, and the propaganda movie that is played over it to mask it.

If you resign yourself to believing the propaganda history that is a lie, the history movie that is false that is being projected, then you are believing the lie while thinking it is the truth. (Christianity, US Government, and New World Order Society 101.)

It's not my fault you want to ignore the true history and believe the propaganda history that is a lie as if it is the truth.

Can you name a "true" history book for me?

[redpillpopper]

I had this come up on 'Stumble', what do you make of it?

Ever the sceptic that I am, I have to say that this 'theory' joins a lot of dots I was already aware of, although it raises new questions too:

http://revelations-2012.com/RomanEmpire.html

The source site itself is full of crazy stuff , you can waste a fair few hours trawling through all of it, but I can't stop thinking about this, particularly the first 6 pages.

[unlockthepower]

Great posts UFOCHICK! and Infinite Consciousness That George Carlin clip is classic! His stuff never gets old just like Bill Hicks' stuff.

[bendoon]

It's not my fault you want to ignore the true history and believe the propaganda history that is a lie as if it is the truth.

But how do you know that it is not you that believes the propaganda history, quite simply you don't.

If we are to be honest none of us knows the whole truth but you claim to.

[armoured_amazon]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles. This is something that many people may find difficult to accept. I hope that this article respects all people as it denounces deception. There are five points here I will make that illustrate this truth.

First, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed as a flesh and bone man.

Second, the Jesus character is the personification of the sun.

Third, the Jesus story is a repeating of the many stories of the many Pagan Sun Gods that preceded it.

Fourth, early Christians never spoke of Jesus as a flesh and blood man.

Five, the goal of attempting to historize Jesus is to pervert Spirituality and create a prison religion to control with.

It is best people research for themselves. I have passed onto you five keys that unlock these shackles. Keys that are very painful for many to turn. So, I leave it to you to turn them. My goal is not to save you as you do not need saving. (Read “Salvation, Damnation, Worship, and Ritual”) My goal is to show you keys and let you alone to do with them what you will.

Nah, I have plenty of proof, kthxbai.

[crystalline]

I have also like Armoured Amazon had too much proof. I recently received two pendant necklaces: one a crucifix one a heart. I think the heart is just as close to the spirit of Jesus as is the symbol of the crucifix, if not more so. Guess what I am wearing?

[paloem]

shackels how about we unleash thee true shackles of our anim,al survival greedy instinct and take what we want and fuk the rest of you . . what are you going to teach us ? how you going to stop us?.
its not a sin to be imperfect , infact its normal , its only when people claim to be perfect thats the problem. rule of the jungle is that what you want be careful what you wish for

[seekeroftruth00]

Watch on youtube "The Greatest Story Ever Told" it will explain everything about "Jesus" just being a story about the sun.

[phildee3]

History is what did happen, factually and logically, in the past.



No. History is a record of what happened. What happened before written records were made is called pre-history.

The better the historian, the more accurate his or her record will be
but nobody can tell 100% what happened because nobody has all the facts.
Even if you were there at the time you didn't see everything from every point of view, know all the causes of the event from behind the scenes, etc.

Have you found any true history for me yet?

[archemis]

I'm the first to agree that the Bible (and it's umpteen revised and re-translated editions) give many things a bad rep .. including Jesus. Reason being .. it was 'edited' to empower dogma and present the human race as disempowered 'sinners'. A more Truthful perception of Jesus, and the answers to many of life's questions, can be found within the Nag Hommadi texts.

He never proclaimed himself as God, nor did he promote worship of anything as a God, he recognised his Father / Creator. as the one True God. With regards to the Sun, and the ancients' Sun worship, he asks that people acknowledge the 'infinity point' at its' centre, being the God spark present within it, and all complex organisms and beings.

He also gave only two 'commandments', with how to live your life and experience the Heaven that is on Earth:
Love God, the father, with all of your (sacred) heart and being
Love your neighbour as yourself.

An all round good guy .... imo :)

"He that knows Self, is greater than this World" - Jesus, Nag Hammadi
"You are children of God, and you shall do as I, and more, for that is your divine right" - Jesus, Nag Hammadi

love,
A x

[phildee3]

He never proclaimed himself as God, nor did he promote worship of anything as a God, other than the Creator.



Do you have a reference for this, archemis?
Where does he promote the worship of the creator?

[archemis]

Hi, it's nice to meet you.

'Worship' is not a good choice of words, sorry, 'recognise' or 'aknowledge' would be more appropriate. Reference can be found in the Nag Hammadi texts. . in particular the writings of his brother, James, and his 'twin' disciple Thomas. . or, for people who wish to reference the New Testament:

Luke 22:67-70 – Jesus confirms that he is the Son of God
John 5:18, 31, 36 – He called God his Father
John 5:23 – Jesus equates himself to the father
John 8:18, 42 – God the Father sent him
John 9:35-37 – He calls himself the Son of Man
John 10:30-33, 36, 38 – Jesus calls himself God\’s son
John 13:3 - Jesus knew he came from God and was returning to God

My point was, that he never proclaimed himself to be God or that he should be worshipped, as some seem to believe, from the preceding posts. But I guess this is the source:
John 19:7 – Jews testify that Jesus claimed to be God
Based on the evidence above, isn't this a bit shifty lol.

love
A

[armoured_amazon]

So many stupid people in this world. The Truth comes directly from Yeshua. GTFO with your book recommendations and worldly 'knowledge'. If you don't know the Creator, you don't know jack about His Son. Pardon my language, I haven't had coffee yet, so can't be arsed reserving manners for fools.

[luciferhorus]

So many stupid people in this world. The Truth comes directly from Yeshua.

Well many of these "stupid" people are actually Christians themselves who claim that the words of Jesus are the words of God, but frankly they don't seem to really believe in them. On the one hand they claim that the words of Jesus are the words of the unchanging God and on the other hand their behaviour implies that they do not believe that his teachings are relevant to Christians today and that perhaps God has changed her mind and converted to Capitalism and propertyism.

Of course one can use the Bible to justify just about any type of behaviour including executing people for working on the Sabbath (Sunset Friday to Sunset Saturday), which of course would mean the mass genocide of many American Christians who often have to have two jobs just to survive, but I am referring only to the words and edicts of Jesus in the Four Gospels.

However if one takes the following passage literally: "I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill the law" this would of course mean the reintroduction of the 613 Laws of Moses, including executions idolatry (a term which includes the worship of any human person as God), which would of course mean that almost "all" Christians who worship Jesus as God the Creator would have to be subjected to mass genocide.

Lux

A Brief Summary of the Teachings of Jesus.

Lucifer

Allegedly, these are the teachings of the eternal, unchanging, perfect, all knowing God whose teachings are allegedly as relevant today as they were 2000 years ago and will last until the end of time.

1: Don't carry money.

2: Don't have more than one robe (only one article of clothing per person).

3: Don't pray in public in the streets or in the Temples.

4: Don't make promises (such as swearing oaths or contracts).

5: Sell "all" that you have and give the money away to the poor.

6: Give up your profession and your home. Feed the poor and heal the sick.

7: Do not go into the towns and cities of the Gentiles (i.e., foreigners, non Israelites). Give this message only to the lost children of Israel (the descendents of Moses' African slave revolution).

8: Do not worry about what to eat or drink; do not sow or reap.

9: Sell your clothes if you have to and buy swords.

10: Drink Jesus's flesh and blood.

11: Take up your cross. Since this was a first century metaphor for opposing Roman occupation, as crucifixion was the Roman penalty for resistance; we could interpret this as opposing the state to the point of martyrdom.

12: Do not refer to anyone as teacher (rabbi), father or master.

If there are any other points anyone else would like to add that I have missed I will add them, however I will only add essential teachings of "Jesus" from the 4 Gospels and not those of the myraids of people who have come after him and distorted his message.

Love and Light

Lucifer

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Christian_communism_logo.svg/397px-Christian_communism_logo.svg.png

"Do not suppose that I come to bring peace to the earth: I
did not come to bring peace but a sword..........

[armoured_amazon]

And here, too! Quelle surprise. Unfortunately, I have the lost on Ignore.

[luciferhorus]

My point was, that he never proclaimed himself to be God or that he should be worshipped.

Yes of course Archemis, however Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus; it is rather the "anti-thesis (opposite idea)" of his teachings and seems to exist to make a mockery of his teachings.

Frankly I find that whenever I quote or paraphrase the teaching of Jesus to the Christians that they become infuriated. It is perfectly understandable that they become infuriated however, since they have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus and their hypocrisy becomes clear.

In fact I have a number of essays on this forum for about a year now which are summaries of the teachings of Jesus. I have yet to come across a single Christian on this forum who actually will state that they "agree" with the teachings of Jesus and that they live by them; on the contrary they tend to actually "attack" and ridicule the teachings of their own alleged mentor. I very strange and devillish religion indeed which is totally founded on hypocrisy.

Love and Light

Lucifer

[nectars]

In fact I have a number of essays on this forum for about a year now which are summaries of the teachings of Jesus. I have yet to come across a single Christian on this forum who actually will state that they "agree" with the teachings of Jesus and that they live by them; on the contrary they tend to actually "attack" and ridicule the teachings of their own alleged mentor.

I hope you take this in the true context its meant, which is not as accusation but out of curiosity as I've not read any of these essays or seen the responses -though granted, from the treatment I recieve from supposed christians myself I can guess how it went.

Anyway the question; do they "attack" and ridicule the "literal word form of the teaching" or your representation of the them?

I ask as in my own experience most christians actually do believe them even if they dont practice the "literal word form of the teaching" as presented through direct translation. I've also noticed its a specific type of christian you generally refer to which is consistant with them taking the teachings of Jesus in this way("literal word form of the teaching").

it was 'edited' to empower dogma and present the human race as disempowered 'sinners'. A more Truthful perception of Jesus, and the answers to many of life's questions, can be found within the Nag H[a]mmadi texts.

Edited or not, once we begin to "see & hear" the true nature & true teachings presented in them no amount of editing can conceal it. Even the "King James version" being regarded as the most corrupt cannot hide it.

The Nag Hammadi Scriptures have the exact same message as the Canonical Gospels when read in the light of the point raised in the previous paragraph. It's inescapable Truth shouts so loudly in cannot be missed.

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]" - The Gospel of Thomas

[luciferhorus]

I hope you take this in the true context its meant, which is not as accusation but out of curiosity as I've not read any of these essays or seen the responses -though granted, from the treatment I recieve from supposed christians myself I can guess how it went.

Anyway the question; do they "attack" and ridicule the "literal word form of the teaching" or your representation of the them? ").

Well I am not misrepresenting the words of Jesus. The words of Jesus, if you extracted them from the four Gospels, would probably fit into a small pamphlet of about half a dozen pages of A4; I know that most Americans can barely read a cornflakes packet but "most" Christians are literate enough to read and study the words of their own alleged mentor.


I ask as in my own experience most christians actually do believe them even if they dont practice the "literal word form of the teaching" as presented through direct translation.


If what you allege was true, all Christians would at least ideologically anti-Capitalists / anti-monetarists, opponets of public prayer in Temples (churches) and opposed to shoe wearing, having more than one robe and opposed to alleged Christians who had "not" sold all that they had and given it to the poor; I don't find this to be the case; on the whole I find them guilty of gross hypocrisy and the misrepresentation of their alleged "god."


I've also noticed its a specific type of christian you generally refer to which is consistant with them taking the teachings of Jesus in this way("literal word form of the teaching").

I refer to Christians who are shoe wearers, money carriers, have more tyhan one robe, who pray in public in Temples and who are not given up their professions and are not homeless and have not devoted their lives to healing the sick, feeding the poor, etc.

Frankly particularly in Latin America since the 60's we see the rise of teh Liberation Theology movement which offers a Communist - Socialist perspective on Jesus and of the Anarchist Christian movement; these are progressive signs of course, but this only applies to a minority of Christians; the vast majority appear to be anti-Capitalists.

Lux

[rapunzel]

I'm the first to agree that the Bible (and it's umpteen revised and re-translated editions) give many things a bad rep .. including Jesus. Reason being .. it was 'edited' to empower dogma and present the human race as disempowered 'sinners'. A more Truthful perception of Jesus, and the answers to many of life's questions, can be found within the Nag Hommadi texts.

He never proclaimed himself as God, nor did he promote worship of anything as a God, he recognised his Father / Creator. as the one True God. With regards to the Sun, and the ancients' Sun worship, he asks that people acknowledge the 'infinity point' at its' centre, being the God spark present within it, and all complex organisms and beings.

He also gave only two 'commandments', with how to live your life and experience the Heaven that is on Earth:
Love God, the father, with all of your (sacred) heart and being
Love your neighbour as yourself.

An all round good guy .... imo :)

"He that knows Self, is greater than this World" - Jesus, Nag Hammadi
"You are children of God, and you shall do as I, and more, for that is your divine right" - Jesus, Nag Hammadi

love,
A x
How do you know that Gnosticism is more true to the words of Jesus? It doesn't appear until the 2nd century and the Nag Hammadi texts were written in the 3rd century although some of the originals were probably earlier.

It seems to me that Jesus was no more than a Jewish prophet who wanted to reform Judaism and who wanted people to abide by the spirit of the Law and not the letter of the Law. Much of what is in the NT was added by Paul and his followers at a later date.

[nectars]

Well I am not misrepresenting the words of Jesus. The words of Jesus, if you extracted them from the four Gospels, would probably fit into a small pamphlet of about half a dozen pages of A4; I know that most Americans can barely read a cornflakes packet but "most" Christians are literate enough to read and study the words of their own alleged mentor.

Reading and studying "the words" themselves does not qualify one as being able to "read them".

If what you allege was true, all Christians would at least ideologically anti-Capitalists / anti-monetarists, opponets of public prayer in Temples (churches) and opposed to shoe wearing, having more than one robe and opposed to alleged Christians who had "not" sold all that they had and given it to the poor; I don't find this to be the case; on the whole I find them guilty of gross hypocrisy and the misrepresentation of their alleged "god."

I agree, which is why I said, "even if they dont practice the "literal word form of the teaching" as presented through direct translation". This again though is presumming a literal teaching word for word when its common knowledge that their acctually parable and allegory by nature. It does seem though that people only believe this of certain passages and not of the whole which is quite amusing in a strange way.

I refer to Christians who are shoe wearers, money carriers, have more tyhan one robe, who pray in public in Temples and who are not given up their professions and are not homeless and have not devoted their lives to healing the sick, feeding the poor, etc.

I don't see it saying to do that physically anywhere unless again taken literally. This is why I usually refrain from this type of conversation; its almost impossible to pass on comprehension from one perceptual understanding to an opposing perception.

[noewhan]

It doesn't.
It matters that he died.

http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19220827p01.html

... & then resurrected himself.

I have been influenced by Red Elk a fair bit on the topic of Jesus. Basically Jesus was 'love on 2 legs' & used the power of the creator within him to preform miracles. He is important because this 'power' is in all of us. And that was his main message.
Then again, if it's all lies I wouldn't be surprised.

[f13ticket]

Watch on youtube "The Greatest Story Ever Told" it will explain everything about "Jesus" just being a story about the sun.

I have. It's one of the best made videos out there on the subject and is one of the first to wake me up. "The God Who Wasn't There." is also good at explaining this as well. It gives a good time-line to show how it all plays out. David Icke has also pointed to these facts in his work, and there are many books on the subject.

Really, when one looks at, ""The Greatest Story Ever Told" video and the many works that go along this line; it is so obvious that Jesus is the sun personified that I do not see how anyone looking at the facts and being honest with themselves could logically conclude anything different.

[f13ticket]

I'm the first to agree that the Bible (and it's umpteen revised and re-translated editions) give many things a bad rep .. including Jesus. Reason being .. it was 'edited' to empower dogma and present the human race as disempowered 'sinners'. A more Truthful perception of Jesus, and the answers to many of life's questions, can be found within the Nag Hommadi texts.

He never proclaimed himself as God, nor did he promote worship of anything as a God, he recognised his Father / Creator. as the one True God. With regards to the Sun, and the ancients' Sun worship, he asks that people acknowledge the 'infinity point' at its' centre, being the God spark present within it, and all complex organisms and beings.

He also gave only two 'commandments', with how to live your life and experience the Heaven that is on Earth:
Love God, the father, with all of your (sacred) heart and being
Love your neighbour as yourself.

An all round good guy .... imo :)

"He that knows Self, is greater than this World" - Jesus, Nag Hammadi
"You are children of God, and you shall do as I, and more, for that is your divine right" - Jesus, Nag Hammadi

love,
A x

I am unfamiliar with this view of Jesus. You're not the first to come to me saying that there was a radically different Jesus than what is taught in the mainstream. I have usually shrugged these things off. Where does one learn of this Jesus? Is there any historical proof for this Jesus? Are there any good books or documentaries on this Jesus?

I can easily dismantle and prove wrong the mainstream Jesus that is taught to almost everyone in America. But this Jesus, that people keep coming up to me with, seems to be coming from a different place. Can you validate this Jesus any better than the mainstream Jesus?

Thank you.

[f13ticket]

Well many of these "stupid" people are actually Christians themselves who claim that the words of Jesus are the words of God, but frankly they don't seem to really believe in them. On the one hand they claim that the words of Jesus are the words of the unchanging God and on the other hand their behaviour implies that they do not believe that his teachings are relevant to Christians today and that perhaps God has changed her mind and converted to Capitalism and propertyism.

Of course one can use the Bible to justify just about any type of behaviour including executing people for working on the Sabbath (Sunset Friday to Sunset Saturday), which of course would mean the mass genocide of many American Christians who often have to have two jobs just to survive, but I am referring only to the words and edicts of Jesus in the Four Gospels.

However if one takes the following passage literally: "I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill the law" this would of course mean the reintroduction of the 613 Laws of Moses, including executions idolatry (a term which includes the worship of any human person as God), which would of course mean that almost "all" Christians who worship Jesus as God the Creator would have to be subjected to mass genocide.

Lux

Very interesting post. You should go to www.evilbible.com. It is filled with passages of how the Christian God loves death and destruction. It has a rather long passage where he tells his followers to kill all the men, women, and children in a city where they worship other Gods and to burn the city to the ground. Though, this is not a Jesus teaching. Just more evil that the Bible tells people to do. (Which is a large reason why I am not Christian.)

[phildee3]

Hi, it's nice to meet you.

'Worship' is not a good choice of words, sorry, 'recognise' or 'aknowledge' would be more appropriate. Reference can be found in the Nag Hammadi texts. . in particular the writings of his brother, James, and his 'twin' disciple Thomas. . or, for people who wish to reference the New Testament:

Luke 22:67-70 – Jesus confirms that he is the Son of God
John 5:18, 31, 36 – He called God his Father
John 5:23 – Jesus equates himself to the father
John 8:18, 42 – God the Father sent him
John 9:35-37 – He calls himself the Son of Man
John 10:30-33, 36, 38 – Jesus calls himself God\’s son
John 13:3 - Jesus knew he came from God and was returning to God

My point was, that he never proclaimed himself to be God or that he should be worshipped, as some seem to believe, from the preceding posts. But I guess this is the source:
John 19:7 – Jews testify that Jesus claimed to be God
Based on the evidence above, isn't this a bit shifty lol.

love
A

Thanks for the reply, A.
I wasn't referring to him not proclaiming himself as God - I've never seen that either, but that he promoted worship of the creator-god (YHWH in his culture).
None of your quotes mention him.
But, yes, I would think that one should aknowledge the creator-god - and all the angels, including the fallen ones.

[seekeroftruth00]

I have. It's one of the best made videos out there on the subject and is one of the first to wake me up. "The God Who Wasn't There." is also good at explaining this as well. It gives a good time-line to show how it all plays out. David Icke has also pointed to these facts in his work, and there are many books on the subject.

Really, when one looks at, ""The Greatest Story Ever Told" video and the many works that go along this line; it is so obvious that Jesus is the sun personified that I do not see how anyone looking at the facts and being honest with themselves could logically conclude anything different.

Yes I've seen that one too. Theses are the two films that really opened my eyes to the truth...

[turner]

The person commonly referred to as Jesus by the church did exist but his name two thousand years ago was NOT Jesus.

It was Easa or the celtic traditions called him Esa.

He incarnated roughly two thousand years ago NOT to start a church or a religion but to teach "THE WAY OF LOVE"

The way of love simplified is love,forgiveness,compassion and grattitude put into action in the real world.

First you must love yourself unconditionally before you can unconditionally love others.

Then you must forgive yourself for all the things you done big or small,then you must forgive others for all the things big or small they have done to you PERIOD.

Forgiveness will help you to get off the wheel of karma

All Easa's teachings (about THE WAY)have been taught by world teachers before him and after him,and they will continue on into eternity because they are timeless.

Compassion, forgiveness, joy, happiness, creativity, grattitude, all stem from

Unconditional Love

Unconditional love comes from the heart chakra,which is also the energy of the fifth dimension where we are headed.

You need to be focused on the heart to truly understand these teachings

I do believe the symbolic representation of the sun argument aswell because obviously Easa was an earthly representation of the Creator(The Sun)

Peace and Love too all

Turner

[bendoon]

I am unfamiliar with this view of Jesus. You're not the first to come to me saying that there was a radically different Jesus than what is taught in the mainstream. I have usually shrugged these things off. Where does one learn of this Jesus? Is there any historical proof for this Jesus? Are there any good books or documentaries on this Jesus?

Well you could start with the Bible, but you must eliminate every pre concieved idea from your mind first. You would then find that Christianity is not what the Churches say it is.

Mainstream Christianity is just an example of people being inherently lazy and believing what they are told rather than studying things for themselves, no different to the lazy people who watch a video on youtube debunking mainstream Christianity and then think they have debunked Christianity.


It was Easa or the celtic traditions called him Esa.


Interesting thought, but when you realise some of the Israelites migrated to Spain, Britain and Ireland 2500+ years ago the connection becomes a bit more obvious.

[f13ticket]

Well you could start with the Bible, but you must eliminate every pre concieved idea from your mind first. You would then find that Christianity is not what the Churches say it is.

Mainstream Christianity is just an example of people being inherently lazy and believing what they are told rather than studying things for themselves, no different to the lazy people who watch a video on youtube debunking mainstream Christianity and then think they have debunked Christianity.



Interesting thought, but when you realise some of the Israelites migrated to Spain, Britain and Ireland 2500+ years ago the connection becomes a bit more obvious.

The Jesus of the Bible contradicts himself and calls for death of the unbelievers. Surely, the Bible is not the place to learn of a peaceful Jesus. I will post a link to my point, so as to not flood the board with evil Jesus teachings.

http://www.evilbible.com/what_would_jesus_do.htm

Here are two to start with, but there are many more.

"Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. Clearly Jesus could have simply sent the devils out, yet he chose instead to place them into pigs and kill them. This is called animal abuse. Mark 5:12-13

Jesus kills a fig tree for not bearing figs, even though it was out of season. Jesus must not be as smart as Christians would have us believe, for he was retarded enough to do something this silly. You’d think the son of god (god incarnate) would know that trees don’t bear fruit in dry season. Mark 11:13"

[marpat]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles. This is something that many people may find difficult to accept. I hope that this article respects all people as it denounces deception. There are five points here I will make that illustrate this truth.

First, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed as a flesh and bone man.

Second, the Jesus character is the personification of the sun.

Third, the Jesus story is a repeating of the many stories of the many Pagan Sun Gods that preceded it.

Fourth, early Christians never spoke of Jesus as a flesh and blood man.

Five, the goal of attempting to historize Jesus is to pervert Spirituality and create a prison religion to control with.

It is best people research for themselves. I have passed onto you five keys that unlock these shackles. Keys that are very painful for many to turn. So, I leave it to you to turn them. My goal is not to save you as you do not need saving. (Read “Salvation, Damnation, Worship, and Ritual”) My goal is to show you keys and let you alone to do with them what you will.

Why does any body need keys for this? most people just dont believe, as simple as that. You are just trying to claim glory for something which is stupid. Notice how you talk about yourself 'my keys' 'my goals', you are just expanding your own ego.

[marpat]

The Jesus of the Bible contradicts himself and calls for death of the unbelievers. Surely, the Bible is not the place to learn of a peaceful Jesus. I will post a link to my point, so as to not flood the board with evil Jesus teachings.

http://www.evilbible.com/what_would_jesus_do.htm

Here are two to start with, but there are many more.

"Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. Clearly Jesus could have simply sent the devils out, yet he chose instead to place them into pigs and kill them. This is called animal abuse. Mark 5:12-13

Jesus kills a fig tree for not bearing figs, even though it was out of season. Jesus must not be as smart as Christians would have us believe, for he was retarded enough to do something this silly. You’d think the son of god (god incarnate) would know that trees don’t bear fruit in dry season. Mark 11:13"

Or maybe its a metaphore. Maybe the retarded thing is that you take it so literally.

[marpat]

... & then resurrected himself.

I have been influenced by Red Elk a fair bit on the topic of Jesus. Basically Jesus was 'love on 2 legs' & used the power of the creator within him to preform miracles. He is important because this 'power' is in all of us. And that was his main message.
Then again, if it's all lies I wouldn't be surprised.

Did he resurect himself though? he also asks why god has forsaken him while he is dying. Hardly the act of one who knows he is the son of god and wont be let down

[archemis]

How do you know that Gnosticism is more true to the words of Jesus? It doesn't appear until the 2nd century and the Nag Hammadi texts were written in the 3rd century although some of the originals were probably earlier.

It seems to me that Jesus was no more than a Jewish prophet who wanted to reform Judaism and who wanted people to abide by the spirit of the Law and not the letter of the Law. Much of what is in the NT was added by Paul and his followers at a later date.


I don't know. I write because of my own profound experiences. I respect others' beliefs and am not imposing mine on people. I never take any man made texts literally, or with total belief or faith, nor do I conform to any man-made religion, including 'New Age'. I can only speak Truthfully of my own experiences and 'knowing'. My stuff is there to read, if it resonates, great, if not, throw it away, or better still, keep an open mind.
A x

[archemis]

Jesus came here to try to teach us that we were children of God, and that we were created from love, and that we 'are' love and that we are immortal and should not fear anything but fear itself, especially death.

I know many will read this and probably laugh, because this 3d existence can appear to be a loveless place, inhabited by many loveless people. I agree, it can 'appear' so, to the mind depending upon level of consciousness. The Truth is that at the core of every being, whether serial killer, or saint, their True essence is Love. That is the true meaning of unconditional love, i.e. we all are Love, no matter what personality and mind filtered construct that we present in this reality. We are Love, unconditionally. Love is not polarised, it has no opposite. Fear and other derivatives from that emotional 'tree', are manifested through lack of love, not in opposition to it. Love is not dualistic and the love I'm speaking of is not simply the love that you feel for your children, partners, pets, new car lol ... it is all of them, and much more than can be comprehended from 'here'.

For example, a serial killer presents as he does through lack of love. This may seem contradictory but it is not. The lack of love is symptomatic of the mind /consciousness belief of apparant separation from Source. That is, the individuals experiences, mind, ego and belief systems do not allow for the holographic expression of love. Do I condone killing of any kind? Of course not! To quote someone, who's name escapes me "evil only thrives when good men do nothing". Which brings me on to my next point:

Conditional love does not mean being an unconditional doormat! The term unconditional love is being bandied about, particularly in the New Age context, and the definition used is sometimes harmful. I will give you an example, from my own life. I was in what may be termed a 'toxic relationship'. It was mentally and emotionally abusive. I have always been a spiritual person, and at that time was quite unaware of my True self. So, my partner would say things like "you can't leave me, love is supposed to be unconditional". I would feel 'guilty' and not leave. Not only was that harmful to my persona and soul, but it was also harmful to my partner, because my staying in that relationship was, in a way, condoning his actions. How would he learn rightful and loving action like that and subsequently evolve? I will always love him, in the true sense, and I love myself, so I did the right thing, and ended the relationship.

In short, everything here is subject to conditions, cause and effect, and the Law of attraction, EXCEPT, that you are, at the core of your being, pure love, unconditionally. Recognise that in others, from your heart, not your head, and it will help you let go, be compassionate, not judge, do the rightful thing, not be an unconditional doormat and to live your life to the fullness of its' potential, with grace, ease and joy, no matter what crap is going on. Unconditional love is not what you practice, it is what you are. 'Be' it.

[turner]

Jesus came here to try to teach us that we were children of God, and that we were created from love, and that we 'are' love and that we are immortal and should not fear anything but fear itself, especially death.

I know many will read this and probably laugh, because this 3d existence can appear to be a loveless place, inhabited by many loveless people. I agree, it can 'appear' so, to the mind depending upon level of consciousness. The Truth is that at the core of every being, whether serial killer, or saint, their True essence is Love. That is the true meaning of unconditional love, i.e. we all are Love, no matter what personality and mind filtered construct that we present in this reality. We are Love, unconditionally. Love is not polarised, it has no opposite. Fear and other derivatives from that emotional 'tree', are manifested through lack of love, not in opposition to it. Love is not dualistic and the love I'm speaking of is not simply the love that you feel for your children, partners, pets, new car lol ... it is all of them, and much more than can be comprehended from 'here'.

For example, a serial killer presents as he does through lack of love. This may seem contradictory but it is not. The lack of love is symptomatic of the mind /consciousness belief of apparant separation from Source. That is, the individuals experiences, mind, ego and belief systems do not allow for the holographic expression of love. Do I condone killing of any kind? Of course not! To quote someone, who's name escapes me "evil only thrives when good men do nothing". Which brings me on to my next point:

Conditional love does not mean being an unconditional doormat! The term unconditional love is being bandied about, particularly in the New Age context, and the definition used is sometimes harmful. I will give you an example, from my own life. I was in what may be termed a 'toxic relationship'. It was mentally and emotionally abusive. I have always been a spiritual person, and at that time was quite unaware of my True self. So, my partner would say things like "you can't leave me, love is supposed to be unconditional". I would feel 'guilty' and not leave. Not only was that harmful to my persona and soul, but it was also harmful to my partner, because my staying in that relationship was, in a way, condoning his actions. How would he learn rightful and loving action like that and subsequently evolve? I will always love him, in the true sense, and I love myself, so I did the right thing, and ended the relationship.

In short, everything here is subject to conditions, cause and effect, and the Law of attraction, EXCEPT, that you are, at the core of your being, pure love, unconditionally. Recognise that in others, from your heart, not your head, and it will help you let go, be compassionate, not judge, do the rightful thing, not be an unconditional doormat and to live your life to the fullness of its' potential, with grace, ease and joy, no matter what crap is going on. Unconditional love is not what you practice, it is what you are. 'Be' it.

Agreed-There are too many people on this forum discussing right brained subjects(experiential/female) from the context of the left brain(logical/ male)-it DOES NOT work

You must use both sides at the same time or just the right brain alone too truly experience the full understanding of what unconditional love is and if you are not doing this it is not surprising that you do not get it!!

To BE or NOT TO BE that is the question?

Namaste!

[bendoon]

http://www.evilbible.com/what_would_jesus_do.htm


Thats what I mean about being lazy, you are relying on a website that obviously has an agenda to inform you rather than making an unbiased study of your own. That would be like someone who relies entirely on the BBC to tell them what is happening in the world. Although it is easier and less time consuming you often hear only one side of the story and may be led into an incorrect conclusion.

Or maybe its a metaphore. Maybe the retarded thing is that you take it so literally.

Correct, I was going to say that but I couldn't be bothered.

[luciferhorus]

Reading and studying "the words" themselves does not qualify one as being able to "read them". .

Well that makes no sense. Anyway I have a graduate degree in Theology - Religious Studies & history. When read a passage from Jesus which states "do not carry money" or "do not wear shoes" I am perfectly able to understand that.

I agree, which is why I said, "even if they dont practice the "literal word form of the teaching" as presented through direct translation". This again though is presumming a literal teaching word for word when its common knowledge that their acctually parable and allegory by nature. It does seem though that people only believe this of certain passages and not of the whole which is quite amusing in a strange way.

Well most anti-Capitalists actually have to live in a Capitalist system, yet philosophically and ideologically they oppose that system. Most Christians are not even anti-Capitalists and anti-propertyists ideologically; on the contrary they are mostly anti-Communists. Further if a Christian "believed" that they should not wear shoes, not have more than one robe and not pray in public in Temples, and continued to do so, since it would be quite easy to stop doing these things, it is quite clear that they do not believe in such edicts.

Further it is perfectly clear to any literate person who reads the 4 Gospels that many of Jesus "stories" are parables. However much of his words and edicts are not parables, they also contain "do's" and "do nots" such as the famous do not wear shoes, do not carry money, etc. I doubt if you are sufficiently illiterate that you are unable to differentiate between parables and non parables; what I think occurs is that Christians claim that the words of Jesus are the words of God, but when challenged by his "do this" and "don't do this" statements, they become uncomfortable since they clearly do not believe in his teachings and resort to special pleadings such as "Oh that was a parable" when such commands are clearly not parables, or they will argue "Oh that is no longer relevant today, that was 2000 years ago;" so much for the unchanging, infallible word of God which will allegedly never pass away.

In summary the vast majority of Christians entirely reject the teachings of Jesus.


I don't see it saying to do that physically anywhere unless again taken literally.


‘And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand’ (Mt. 7)


‘Carry neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, neither two robes, neither shoes, nor yet a staff. Mt 10’

Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth...
- Matthew 6:19


Sell all that you have and give to the poor... Luke 12:33


And when you pray, you must not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the temples and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when thou pray, enter into your room, and when you have shut the door, pray in secret; and your God which hears in secret shall answer you. And when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. (Mt. 6)

In other words, a true Christ-like person would never pray in public or in a church, nor would they construct any form of Temple.

.. everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
Matthew 7:13-27

Nowhere in the Gospels does it say "hear my words and do not act upon them" or "take them metaphorically" or "I was only joking, have as many shoes as you wish, be sure to carry money and don't forget to pray in public in the streets and temples."


This is why I usually refrain from this type of conversation; its almost impossible to pass on comprehension from one perceptual understanding to an opposing perception.

Well there is a saying that it takes a fool to debate with a fool. It is impossible to have an intelligent discussion with a person who on the one hand claims that the words of Jesus are the literal, infallible word of God on the one hand, and on the other when challenged with his "do not carry money, do not wear shoes, do not have more than one robe" statements will say, "Oh we don't take that literally."

Very interesting post. You should go to www.evilbible.com. It is filled with passages of how the Christian God loves death and destruction. It has a rather long passage where he tells his followers to kill all the men, women, and children in a city where they worship other Gods and to burn the city to the ground. Though, this is not a Jesus teaching. Just more evil that the Bible tells people to do. (Which is a large reason why I am not Christian.)

Yes I am very familiar with www.evilbible.com. It is one of my favorite internet sites. I think there are probably two types of Christians; those who are literate and semi-literate and who have never actually read the Bible and it's incitations to rape, genocide, slavery, forced marraige and executions for numerous things which most of us do not consider crimes; and on the other hand there are those who are literate and able to read these things but who continue to promote the Bible as the word of God; the latter variety of Christians do not have ignorance as an excuse; they are simply people who have a rather demonic definition of the Creator and who consider what most of us consider to be "evil" as their definition of "good".




Lux

[bendoon]

‘Carry neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, neither two robes, neither shoes, nor yet a staff. Mt 10’

Sell all that you have and give to the poor... Luke 12:33




Your quotes are taken out of context, typical of the decievers (Satans).

I can't be bothered to reply to them all, but in these he is talking to the apostles only. Not every Christian is expected to be an apostle.

So your whole 2 verses that you use to say Jesus was a Communist are blown out of the water, Satan is the Communist which is why his right hand men the Rothschilds funded the Communist revolution in Russia to kill tens of millions of Christians.

[ben87]

That is in contradiction of his words bendoon.

I dont remember the chapter or verse, but it says that "you will make no masters" which means no priests or any of that.

He was reffering to the way the luciferians ran their religion, they have degrees or levels and as you "ascend" you become a master, which is what priesthood is.

[93krystalmoons]

I live in the US in what is called the "Bible Belt". After an enlightening chat in the forum chat here the other night I realized people from other countries don't understand what evangelistic christians are or behave like.

Evangelistic Christians come from many different churches but have SIMILAR beliefs. All believe in absolute fear of God. Here is a list of rules I have personally learned from the EC folks from a mix of churches.

One may not (depending on doctrine);
dance
drink
date unescorted until marriage
kiss
have children of different sexes in one swimming pool at the same time
ladies/girls-ever wear anything but a dress below the knee
men may never wear shorts
wear a bathing suit/swimming is done in clothes as well as segregated
adult/teen may not be in a room alone with someone of the other sex other than a wife
no caffiene no chocolate other dietary rules
no jewelry of any kind for women including wedding rings


Other things include an absolute belief that satan can make you do things and is actually responsible for bad choices.
ALL gay people will go to hell unless they remounce themselves as sinners and become hetrosexuals.
That children can be evil and should at times have the devil BEAT out of them or starved out.
That the rapture is real and Christ is going to come down from the heavens on a horse (or horseless depending on the church) and the followers clothing will fall off they will be given new bodies and all the other people (AND animals will stay on a burning or hell like earth.
That if you do not believe the blood of the lamb (Jesus) saves you and takes care of all your sins and if Christ is not the focal point and savior in your life you will go to hell forever.

Saved by the blood of the lamb... that's a common statement here. If you don't accept Christ's sacrifice on the cross and accept he died just for your sin you will go to hell and be punished forever.

They believe anything unexplained is from satan. If you mention anything outside their realm of possibility they cut you off claiming it's the devil's work and the conversation is over.

The earth was created 6 thousand years ago, people rode on dinos, there is a museum to prove it, a large one.

There is no other life and the earth is the center of the unniverse.

I am sure I have missed a few important points but I got the jest of it. It is a controlling and violent religion. Televangulists keep it going talking daily of the rapture and hell and telling people to send them money to save themselves and people are so brainwashed they do.

They fight amongst themselves about whether God and Christ are one or there is a trinity.

About 1/3 of the US claim to be evangelistic, THAT is the danger of Christianity. It has been used by those in power to gain control over people and completely control their lives in ever way and it has worked. Who needs 1984? just make everything a sin in a society where other Christians will shun you for breaking the rules and you have the same thing.

It's also the reason the US fights UFO disclosure, loss of control and suicides.

I'm from the US as well. I didn't realize, that such oppressive sects of Christianity aren't the norm in places abroad. Also I was unaware that 1/3 considered themselves of these sects! SCARY! More than I imagined based on my own observations...

and for those of you who haven't encountered a evangelical person here is an extreme example!
God warrior! - YouTube

[bowtiedaddy]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles. This is something that many people may find difficult to accept. I hope that this article respects all people as it denounces deception. There are five points here I will make that illustrate this truth.

First, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed as a flesh and bone man.

Second, the Jesus character is the personification of the sun.

Third, the Jesus story is a repeating of the many stories of the many Pagan Sun Gods that preceded it.

Fourth, early Christians never spoke of Jesus as a flesh and blood man.

Five, the goal of attempting to historize Jesus is to pervert Spirituality and create a prison religion to control with.

It is best people research for themselves. I have passed onto you five keys that unlock these shackles. Keys that are very painful for many to turn. So, I leave it to you to turn them. My goal is not to save you as you do not need saving. (Read “Salvation, Damnation, Worship, and Ritual”) My goal is to show you keys and let you alone to do with them what you will.

Jesus Christ is just the supersticious re-interpretation of an ancient philosopher and revolutionary. The only shackles are those provided hundreds of years later.

Reality: The guy remaned Jesus was an opposition to the Roman tyranny of many sovereign nations. The guy renamed Jesus was a supporter of human brotherhood and peace. The guy renamed Jesus was there to tear down the traditions of superstition. The guy renamed Jesus was there to oppose the corrupt bankers of the day (the money changers).

You are basing this off of a fundamentalist interpretation itself. For hundreds of years after the guy renamed Jesus died (not to 'save us for our sins', but because he opposed the Roman occupation of Jerusalem and attempted to overthrow their local authority, which is all the old Judaic messianic mythology was ever about) there was no talk of him being the son of god or any of that shit. The problem with your interpretation is that you still are basing your argument on the assumption that the bible is one cohesive unit intended to fulful one purpose, written by one person at one time with one set of beliefs.

The reality is, "Jesus" is preaching things that we call could learn from. WHat the problem is, is this religion that people formed hundreds of years after his death to rule over others. Most of the people who spearheaded the whole Jesus religion were the ones persecuting early followers of his philosophies. If you can't beat em join em . . . That's what happened, not some bizzarre parallel to earlier religions, which did happen in religion, but not so much in philosophy. (I.E. most of the holidays come from pagan ones, but much of the philosophy is in contradiction to pagan ones for better or worse)

[f13ticket]

Jesus Christ is just the supersticious re-interpretation of an ancient philosopher and revolutionary. The only shackles are those provided hundreds of years later.

Reality: The guy remaned Jesus was an opposition to the Roman tyranny of many sovereign nations. The guy renamed Jesus was a supporter of human brotherhood and peace. The guy renamed Jesus was there to tear down the traditions of superstition. The guy renamed Jesus was there to oppose the corrupt bankers of the day (the money changers).

You are basing this off of a fundamentalist interpretation itself. For hundreds of years after the guy renamed Jesus died (not to 'save us for our sins', but because he opposed the Roman occupation of Jerusalem and attempted to overthrow their local authority, which is all the old Judaic messianic mythology was ever about) there was no talk of him being the son of god or any of that shit. The problem with your interpretation is that you still are basing your argument on the assumption that the bible is one cohesive unit intended to fulful one purpose, written by one person at one time with one set of beliefs.

The reality is, "Jesus" is preaching things that we call could learn from. WHat the problem is, is this religion that people formed hundreds of years after his death to rule over others. Most of the people who spearheaded the whole Jesus religion were the ones persecuting early followers of his philosophies. If you can't beat em join em . . . That's what happened, not some bizzarre parallel to earlier religions, which did happen in religion, but not so much in philosophy. (I.E. most of the holidays come from pagan ones, but much of the philosophy is in contradiction to pagan ones for better or worse)

Again, a difficulty I have is trying to pin Christianity down. Almost every Christian, or Jesus lover who is not Christian, or whatever has a different view of Christianity. Often one not supported by either Jesus or the Bible.

If there was a rebel Jesus that was for truth, brotherhood, and peace. Who died because of his protest against tyranny. Don't you think he would want the tyranny that has come from the religion built around him to be stopped? Even if it means that people forget him? If there were ever such a real man, it is likely the memory of him has been so stretched out of proportion and mystified that the entire construct would have to be brought down. It's almost impossible to separate the myth from the legend. As many fundamentalists will see any possible scenario of Jesus having been real at all as grounds on which to continue on as they have been.

Do you think there is a way to separate the truth from the myth about Jesus, if he was a man? If not, don't you think he would have wanted this evil dismantled; even if it means destroying the memory of any real him that might have existed?

[luciferhorus]

Your quotes are taken out of context, typical of the decievers (Satans).

I can't be bothered to reply to them all, but in these he is talking to the apostles only. Not every Christian is expected to be an apostle.



Well to merely just say that these quotes are taken out of context is not an argument; it is just a contradiction.

For example an argument would state the following.

"The quotes are taken out of context. Jesus was only referring to his apostles and to those of that era. He states "sell what you have and give it to the poor" and "carry no money" but in both passages after he had stated this he goes on to say "Oh but people who are listening to this 2000 years from now should ignore this, you can wear shoes, carry money, have more than one robe, defend the rich and drop depleted uranium on the poor and the non Christians etc., etc."

Now that would be an proper argument if you could find quotations in the 4 Gospels to this effect.
However to suggest that Christians consider the words and edicts of Jesus 2000 years ago to be no longer relevant today (which is what you are stating), or that Jesus was not speaking in his "unchanging," "infallible" "the same yesterday, today and tomorrow" mode merely on your say so is not really an argument which refers to the allegedly timeless teachings of Jesus.

Lux

[bendoon]

(which is what you are stating),

Not at all, when Jesus was talking to the Apostles he was talking to the apostles, not everyone else, the instructions he gave to the apostles were for the apostles, not everyone else.

It's quite elementary really, any fool can just pick a verse here and there to try and prove a point, but failure to see who the verse is adressed to or wether the verse is part of a parable or prophecy and therefore to be taken figuratively rather than literally leads to error.

[tomt]

Again, a difficulty I have is trying to pin Christianity down.



perhaps you could consider jesus this way -

he is the life preserver, in case every thing else goes wrong.


and why would anyone throw away their life vest?




Well to merely just say that these quotes are taken out of context is not an argument; it is just a contradiction.



quite true ...





`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````

Fog in Frisco -

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/341/cameraf.jpg (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/cameraf.jpg/)


http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7573/camera1se.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/camera1se.jpg/)


http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6245/camera3m.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/i/camera3m.jpg/)

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3334/camera44.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/camera44.jpg/)


from here -

http://webmarin.com/

[f13ticket]

perhaps you could consider jesus this way -

he is the life preserver, in case every thing else goes wrong.


and why would anyone throw away their life vest?

In this case, because it is a false one and throwing it away is how to save yourself. That and finding a real one. I think that's the Christian's fear. They don't want to throw away Jesus and they have not yet found anything to replace him with. So they stay with him out of a feeling of desperation.

[tomt]

In this case, because it is a false one and throwing it away is how to save yourself.

perhaps you could tell us how you came to the conclusion,




'it is a false one' .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.rntl.net/sausalitocam.htm

[f13ticket]

perhaps you could tell us how you came to the conclusion,




'it is a false one' .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.rntl.net/sausalitocam.htm

Many thinks, if you read my other posts in this thread you would know.

[tomt]

Many thinks, if you read my other posts in this thread you would know.

i knew before .

was wondering if you knew.

[luciferhorus]

Not at all, when Jesus was talking to the Apostles he was talking to the apostles, not everyone else, the instructions he gave to the apostles were for the apostles, not everyone else.



http://wrotemeamanual.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/hypocrisy-meter-03-21-07.png?w=400&h=274

Yes I am aware that whenever I quote the teachings of Jesus from the 4 Gospels, that the common way that the Christians reject and oppose such teachings is to say that he was only speaking to people 2000 years ago, and that his teachings are no longer relevant today, and that in this age Christians can wear shoes, carry money, have more than one robe and pray in public in the streets and temples, etc., and entirely reject his teachings and in doing so, make a mockery of Jesus.

However.........you are just telling me what "you" believe; what "you" believe about Jesus is another matter entirely. I am merely referring to the "teachings" of Jesus, for your position (that his teachings are no longer relevant to you) to be considered as the teachings of Jesus, you would have to offer argument and evidence that it was Jesus's own position that he was "only" speaking to the people 2000 years ago and that he intended future generations to entirely disregard his teachings and to use him as an icon of Capitalism and religious hypocrisy.

For example if you could find a quotation where Jesus states "Do not carry money...but the followers of my teachings, should in future carry money" or "Do not have more than one robe.....but the followers of my teachings in future can have two robes" then you could make the argument that the view that his teachings are no longer relevant today was a position proposed by Jesus, and not just the position taken by Bendoon, which is your own personal attempt to misinterpret the teachings of Jesus which you obviously do not agree with and oppose

‘And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand’ (Mt. 7)

For example if you could find a quotation which contradicts this, and where he stated that those who hear his teachings in future should "not" do them and should do the "opposite" of what he said, then this might assist your argument that Jesus did not want future generations to follow his teachings, and that indeed he wanted Christians to entirely reject his teachings, which is essentially your own position; however failing to do this will only reinforce my judgement of you that you are just attempting to justify your obvious hypocrisy.

For example let us say that there is a Marxist who is an anti-Communist; when questioned by other Marxists and accused of hypocrisy, the Marxist might claim that Marx was only speaking to people of the 19th century and that he did not mean his philosophy to be taken seriously by people of future generations and that he expected Marxists in future to be anti-Communists and to reject his teachings. It is really up to that person to show offer argument and evidence from the writings of Marx to support this view, otherwise he will just be considered to be a hypocrite who is making a mockery of Marx; similarly so with Christians who entirely reject the teachings of Jesus and consider them to be no longer relevant and yet continue to refer to themselves as Christians.

Love and regards.

Lux

A Brief Summary of the Teachings of Jesus.

Lux

Allegedly, these are the teachings of the eternal, unchanging, perfect, all knowing God whose teachings are allegedly as relevant today as they were 2000 years ago and will last until the end of time.

1: Don't carry money.

2: Don't have more than one robe (only one article of clothing per person).

3: Don't pray in public in the streets or in the Temples.

4: Don't make promises (such as swearing oaths or contracts).

5: Sell "all" that you have and give the money away to the poor.

6: Give up your profession and your home. Feed the poor and heal the sick.

7: Do not go into the towns and cities of the Gentiles (i.e., foreigners, non Israelites). Give this message only to the lost children of Israel (the descendents of Moses' African slave revolution).

8: Do not worry about what to eat or drink; do not sow or reap.

9: Sell your clothes if you have to and buy swords.

10: Drink Jesus's flesh and blood.

11: Take up your cross. Since this was a first century metaphor for opposing Roman occupation, as crucifixion was the Roman penalty for resistance; we could interpret this as opposing the state to the point of martyrdom.

12: Do not refer to anyone as teacher (rabbi), father or master.

If there are any other points anyone else would like to add that I have missed I will add them, however I will only add essential teachings of "Jesus" from the 4 Gospels and not those of the myraids of people who have come after him and distorted his message.

Love and Light

Lucifer

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Christian_communism_logo.svg/397px-Christian_communism_logo.svg.png

"Do not suppose that I come to bring peace to the earth: I
did not come to bring peace but a sword..........

.

[phildee3]

Again, a difficulty I have is trying to pin Christianity down.



Good!
That's the reason it survives.

[christ4life]

Very interesting post. You should go to www.evilbible.com. It is filled with passages of how the Christian God loves death and destruction. It has a rather long passage where he tells his followers to kill all the men, women, and children in a city where they worship other Gods and to burn the city to the ground. Though, this is not a Jesus teaching. Just more evil that the Bible tells people to do. (Which is a large reason why I am not Christian.)

Those people that were destroyed were doing horrible things to people, and they weren't your ordinary human beings but hybrids from fallen angels, and human women. Books that talk in detail about this have been removed from the Bible.

[christ4life]

Whether there mugging people or dealing drugs has nothing to do with them
being atheist or not. Its to do with the environment/community/parentage
that they have ....

Evangelicals are dangerous becuase if you dont believe in Jesus like they do
they think your following Satan and are on your way to hell. Total, 100%
Brainwashing :mad:

Well at least your talking about evangelicals, and not every christian. I do believe they can be to extreme with their beliefs. Its not about just following its repenting. If you don't repent, and just follow then your no better off than the person who doesn't believe. Nobody can be perfect on this planet.

[christ4life]

Evangelistic Christians are very very dangerous IMO....

I watched the documentary 'Jesus Camp' recently and the way they
indoctrinate their kids is a crime against the human mind :mad:

I wouldn't take anything you watch on television seriously. We all know who is really behind it. Meet christians, and go find the truth for yourself. Jesus Camp is blasphemy.

[christ4life]

Well all I got to say is I simply follow by faith. I don't need any evidence of God's existence even though I see it everyday when I go outside. I don't feel like a slave for God, or that I'm a worthless person if I don't follow him. I only blame myself for the things I do wrong. Alot of people can't even follow simple rules while they are on this planet. Its very hard to admit you did something wrong but until you do you will never grow as a person. Lucifer on the otherhand accuses God for the choices he made. The devil, and his minions can't go back to heaven they don't have the ability to be redemed for their sin by Jesus Christ because they are prefect beings who knew everything so they can't make mistakes. They even blew a chance of less punishment by having Enoch plead for them instead of them going to God themselves. Once again it is hard for people to admit they were wrong. Instead of lashing out at humans, and trying to trick them into worshipping them so they don't follow God they should have tried to make amends, and changed their ways after all what do they have to lose nothing. Where there is darkness their is light people are just to quick to give up. The NWO is a slave system, communism is a slave system that is not freedom. Freedom to me is following God. Without him my eyes wouldn't be opened to whats going on around here.

[bendoon]

Yes I am aware that whenever I quote the teachings of Jesus from the 4 Gospels, that the common way that the Christians reject and oppose such teachings is to say that he was only speaking to people 2000 years ago,

.

No, you are deliberately twisting what I said, again, thats to be expected from a Satanist though.

When it says "And Jesus said to the apostles .............." or "And Jesus said to the multitude ...............", thats what it means and thats who he was talking to. Only the apostles were required to give up their worldly posessions and devote their life to teaching the gospel, which is why he only told them to do so.

[luciferhorus]

No, you are deliberately twisting what I said, again, thats to be expected from a Satanist though.

When it says "And Jesus said to the apostles .............." or "And Jesus said to the multitude ...............", thats what it means and thats who he was talking to. Only the apostles were required to give up their worldly posessions and devote their life to teaching the gospel, which is why he only told them to do so.


It is you who are placing your own interpretation on the text as you are obviously opposed to the teachings of Jesus, which is common among almost all Christians. There is nowhere in the 4 Gospels where Jesus states "I say this to you Apostles, but other people in the future should ignore what I say as my teachings are not relevant to you."

It is you who is guity of "twisting the text" according to your own interpretation.

So much for the unchanging, infallible, words of your god (Jesus) which are allegedly the same yesterday, today, tommorrow and will last until the end of time; you obviously reject the teachings of Jesus and you do not believe that his words and edicts are the unchanging infallible word of god.


‘And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand’ (Mt. 7)


You position seems to be that you understand the words of Jesus, but you do not believe in them, nor do you follow them, nor do you believe them to be relevant today (as you have yourself admitted).

Just to restate, my essays on this subject refer to the alleged timeless, infallible, unchanging teachings of Jesus, and not to the obviously hypocritical beliefs of Bendoon, since you are obviously intent on misrepresenting Jesus and promoting your own personal beliefs in his name.

Lux

[bendoon]

Lucipher, you can't twist your way out of it how ever hard you wriggle.

Here is one of the verses you use to say Jesus was a Communist

5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

He is talking to the disciples, any fool can see that.

So in the modern day you could say those rules would apply to the preachers, vicars or anyone putting themselves forward as a teacher of the gospel. We can then see clearly that the millionaire televangelists in the US are frauds, no ifs or buts, as would anyone else claiming to be a messenger of Christ should they be rich in worldly terms.

[luciferhorus]

He is talking to the disciples, any fool can see that.



Thank you. That is entirely my point; that the Christians today are not disciples of Jesus; on the one hand they claim that his words and edicts
are the unchanging, infallible words of their God, and that Jesus' teachings
are as relevant today as they were 2000 years ago, and that his words
will "never pass away," and that Jesus is the same Jesus, yesterday, today
and tomorrow, and yet on the other hand Christians in general almost
universally reject the teachings of Jesus when confronted with them.

If you wish to make the argument that Jesus itended that his teachings should only be taken seriously by those of his own generation and entirely rejected by future generations, it is for you to make that argument based up the words of Jesus, otherwise it would be more honest if you would merely admit that your interpretation that future generations should reject his teachings is merely your own personal distortion of the teachings of Jesus.

Lux

http://www.luciferia.tv/communist_jesus.jpg

[bendoon]

Thank you. That is entirely my point; that the Christians today are not disciples of Jesus; on the one hand they claim that his words and edicts
are the unchanging, infallible words of their God, and that Jesus' teachings
are as relevant today as they were 2000 years ago, and that his words
will "never pass away," and that Jesus is the same Jesus, yesterday, today
and tomorrow, and yet on the other hand Christians in general almost
universally reject the teachings of Jesus when confronted with them.

Lux

Some people are called to be teachers (disciples), some aren't, why is that hard to understand. If they were all supposed to be disciples they would have no one to teach.

[luciferhorus]

Some people are called to be teachers (disciples), some aren't, why is that hard to understand. If they were all supposed to be disciples they would have no one to teach.

OK so the people that the Christians are supposed to be teaching the teachings of Jesus to are those who do not believe in his teachings; that is quite acceptable, but it is not acceptable for Christians to reject the teachings of Jesus themselves and to propagate the anti-thesis of these teachings by word and example and to then claim to be Christians who believe in the teachings of Jesus; that is simply a definition of hyprocrisy.

Lux.

[f13ticket]

At least Santa Clause, from what I have researched, was based on a real man. I would feel better about telling kids about Santa Claus than Jesus.

Santa VS Jesus, who is more real? That should be a comedy spoof, which would serve as both entertainment and education. The man who claims to forgive all the worlds sin? Or the man stuffing his bum down a chimney and hashing out gifts? One, maybe, based on a real man. The other, an anthropomorphic expression of the sun.

[luciferhorus]

At least Santa Clause, from what I have researched, was based on a real man. I would feel better about telling kids about Santa Claus than Jesus,


Ah well Santaists are at least funny; whereas the Christian hypocrites are not; they are part of a very real problem which affects the minds of a billion people who mostly propagate evangelical anti-Communism in the name of an alleged Communist martyr (whose very existence, I concede, cannot be proven).

Lux


Santaists are collaborators and sympathizers who support the evil goals of Santa Claus. Considered public threats in the nations in which they live, they lead highly secretive lives, hiding their allegiance to Santa throughout the year, emerging only during the Christmas season to terrorize their neighbors. These cultists leave presents for him in their homes in order to signify their allegiance to his cause, and are thusly spared from the yearly massacre
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Santaist


http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050915232857/uncyclopedia/images/8/89/Santaist1.jpg

[song of the earth]

Those people that were destroyed were doing horrible things to people, and they weren't your ordinary human beings but hybrids from fallen angels, and human women. Books that talk in detail about this have been removed from the Bible.


How do you know for sure that the untold number of men, women & children that were continually massacred by the Hebrews under the supposed direction of their God of War were not ordinary human beings, this is just theory based on prejudice & is continually justified & claimed by those who accept the theology & teachings of the bible.
History, as perverted & distorted as it is is full of atrocities, including these present times, but I don't find any truth in the claim that these 'hybrids' because of the race that they happened to be born into have been the sole cause of it all. The Hebrews logic was, if you were not perceived as a 'chosen person,' you deserved to be wiped off the face of the earth.
There is also so many contradictions & evil acts documented of the by the so called Patriarchs that were committing these divinely ordained massacres that it appears to be just another classical case of simple ethnic cleansing.
Nevertheless, there is enough evidence around regarding the giants who roamed the earth at one stage & them being an obvious threat to the survival of humanity, it's understandable that war between them would have eventuated, but I think this hybrid excuse explaining the 'justifiable' deaths of human beings has a very psychopathic ring to it.
The same attitude of 'gentiles' & 'the chosen ones' is a problem even today, & is generally contained by civil laws for the most part, & not, unfortunately, motivated through love for our fellow man.

[f13ticket]

Ah well Santaists are at least funny; whereas the Christian hypocrites are not; they are part of a very real problem which affects the minds of a billion people who mostly propagate evangelical anti-Communism in the name of an alleged Communist martyr (whose very existence, I concede, cannot be proven).

Lux


Santaists are collaborators and sympathizers who support the evil goals of Santa Claus. Considered public threats in the nations in which they live, they lead highly secretive lives, hiding their allegiance to Santa throughout the year, emerging only during the Christmas season to terrorize their neighbors. These cultists leave presents for him in their homes in order to signify their allegiance to his cause, and are thusly spared from the yearly massacre
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Santaist


http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050915232857/uncyclopedia/images/8/89/Santaist1.jpg

LOL! That is funny. I should check the site out. Thanks for that.

[bendoon]

OK so the people that the Christians are supposed to be teaching the teachings of Jesus to are those who do not believe in his teachings; that is quite acceptable, but it is not acceptable for Christians to reject the teachings of Jesus themselves and to propagate the anti-thesis of these teachings by word and example and to then claim to be Christians who believe in the teachings of Jesus; that is simply a definition of hyprocrisy.

Lux.

Most Christians are hypocrites, thats true, give him a Blue Peter badge. However that doesn't alter the fact that different instructions were given to the disciples than to ordinary Christians.

[luciferhorus]

Most Christians are hypocrites, thats true, give him a Blue Peter badge. However that doesn't alter the fact that different instructions were given to the disciples than to ordinary Christians.

OK so what different instructions were given by Jesus to "ordinary Christians" where he told them to reject his teachings, and indeed in Jesus' era, who actually were these ordinary Christians?

By the way I expect your responses to refer to the allegedly infallible, unchanging words and edicts of Jesus, and not to any of the theologians and religious fanatics who came after him and perverted his message for their own purposes.

Lux

[bendoon]

The Hebrews logic was, if you were not perceived as a 'chosen person,' you deserved to be wiped off the face of the earth.

A slight over exageration, to say the least. The ME was a very violent place at that time, with the Assyrians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Medes all vying to be top dogs at various times. If the Israelites had not defended themselves they would have been wiped out completely in pretty quick time. So to suggest they were the big bad bullies and all the others were peace loving hippies is just a bit over the top. In fact it would be more accurate to say that they were the most civilised Nation in the area by a long way.

[bendoon]

OK so what different instructions were given by Jesus to "ordinary Christians" where he told them to reject his teachings,

I am begining to think you are taking the ****.

Read the whole chapters of the verses you keep quoting and you will see it clearly states where he is talking to the disciples and where he is talking to the ordinary people and the things required of each group are different.

Its like if you hired a plumber and an electrician to do some work on your house and you gave them both different instructions but the plumber ignored his instructions and rewired the house and made a pigs ear of it and then said I'm sure thats what you told me to do, I heard you say it. Well he did hear you say it, but to the electrician. Thats my best effort at an analogy of what you are saying, but no doubt you won't get it still.

[rapunzel]

A slight over exageration, to say the least. The ME was a very violent place at that time, with the Assyrians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Medes all vying to be top dogs at various times. If the Israelites had not defended themselves they would have been wiped out completely in pretty quick time. So to suggest they were the big bad bullies and all the others were peace loving hippies is just a bit over the top. In fact it would be more accurate to say that they were the most civilised Nation in the area by a long way.

Civilised, oh my goodness! Do you remember the story of the Levite and his concubine as related in Judges? They were travelling and reached the town of Gibeah in Benjamin. They were offered a place for the night by a man from Ephraim. During the night a group of Benjamites surrounded his house and demanded the Levite be sent out so they could have sex with him and the owner said to them “ No, my friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this disgraceful thing. Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But to this man, don't do such a disgraceful thing”

In other words in the Israelite viewpoint it’s a disgrace to have sex with a man but gang raping a virgin is OK because women don’t matter. The Levite however gave them his concubine instead and “ they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.”

Not surprisingly she was dead when the Levite came out in the morning so when he got home he cut into pieces and sent the pieces to all Israel who were astonished that such a thing could happen. It was demanded of the Benjamites that they surrender the men who had done the deed but they refused and the upshot was that there was a battle and the victorious Israelites put all the Benjamite towns to the sword, killing everyone including animals. The rest of the story is in Judges 21 and includes further slaughter of fellow Israelites and the abduction of virgins. It is a sickening story and illustrates that the Israelites were not civilized.

The way they treated their womenfolk was appalling compared to the Egyptians for example.

[christ4life]

At least Santa Clause, from what I have researched, was based on a real man. I would feel better about telling kids about Santa Claus than Jesus.

Santa VS Jesus, who is more real? That should be a comedy spoof, which would serve as both entertainment and education. The man who claims to forgive all the worlds sin? Or the man stuffing his bum down a chimney and hashing out gifts? One, maybe, based on a real man. The other, an anthropomorphic expression of the sun.

Santa=Satan

[christ4life]

How do you know for sure that the untold number of men, women & children that were continually massacred by the Hebrews under the supposed direction of their God of War were not ordinary human beings, this is just theory based on prejudice & is continually justified & claimed by those who accept the theology & teachings of the bible.
History, as perverted & distorted as it is is full of atrocities, including these present times, but I don't find any truth in the claim that these 'hybrids' because of the race that they happened to be born into have been the sole cause of it all. The Hebrews logic was, if you were not perceived as a 'chosen person,' you deserved to be wiped off the face of the earth.
There is also so many contradictions & evil acts documented of the by the so called Patriarchs that were committing these divinely ordained massacres that it appears to be just another classical case of simple ethnic cleansing.
Nevertheless, there is enough evidence around regarding the giants who roamed the earth at one stage & them being an obvious threat to the survival of humanity, it's understandable that war between them would have eventuated, but I think this hybrid excuse explaining the 'justifiable' deaths of human beings has a very psychopathic ring to it.
The same attitude of 'gentiles' & 'the chosen ones' is a problem even today, & is generally contained by civil laws for the most part, & not, unfortunately, motivated through love for our fellow man.

The world became corrupt when the mixing started. This is mentioned in Genesis which is the reason for the flood. Also in places like Babylon, and Sodom, and Gomorrah of course details of what went on there were removed from biblical texts but God lead me to the book of Enoch, and the book of Jasher. All you have to do is see for yourself. All I have to say is I would not want to liive in a world without laws. People would be out of control. God gave us his instructions so we can live in peace, and happiness. His son died for all of us. Gods chosen people doesn't mean those people are special it means that is were he chose to set up his kingdom on earth.

[bendoon]

Civilised, oh my goodness! Do you remember the story of the Levite and his concubine as related in Judges? They were travelling and reached the town of Gibeah in Benjamin. They were offered a place for the night by a man from Ephraim. During the night a group of Benjamites surrounded his house and demanded the Levite be sent out so they could have sex with him and the owner said to them “ No, my friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this disgraceful thing. Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But to this man, don't do such a disgraceful thing”

In other words in the Israelite viewpoint it’s a disgrace to have sex with a man but gang raping a virgin is OK because women don’t matter. The Levite however gave them his concubine instead and “ they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.”

Not surprisingly she was dead when the Levite came out in the morning so when he got home he cut into pieces and sent the pieces to all Israel who were astonished that such a thing could happen. It was demanded of the Benjamites that they surrender the men who had done the deed but they refused and the upshot was that there was a battle and the victorious Israelites put all the Benjamite towns to the sword, killing everyone including animals. The rest of the story is in Judges 21 and includes further slaughter of fellow Israelites and the abduction of virgins. It is a sickening story and illustrates that the Israelites were not civilized.

The way they treated their womenfolk was appalling compared to the Egyptians for example.

And what exactly is your point ? I think we know they did wrong, thats why God withdrew his blessing and they were conquered by Assyria and then Babylon. It still doesn't alter the fact that the surrounding countries were as bad or worse in many respects.

[ben87]

Santa=Satan

Yep! Santa=Satan=WODAN(the snake that bites the heels)=Zeus=Jupiter=Lucifer=Fake jesus.

[imaginarysoul]

Has anybody here watched Zeitgeist?

I found it quite informative on christianity's similarities with many more ancient religions...

[rapunzel]

And what exactly is your point ? I think we know they did wrong, thats why God withdrew his blessing and they were conquered by Assyria and then Babylon. It still doesn't alter the fact that the surrounding countries were as bad or worse in many respects.

My point is that it is incorrect to say that Israel was more civilised than the countries surrounding it. It wasn't, as knowledge of the social customs and the laws of other nations shows. Israel's treatment of women was quite appalling and all of it commanded by Yahweh. You shouldn't take the Bible's description of other cultures as the truth since the Bible was written to show the superiority of Yahweh to other Gods and is therfore biased.

[lightgiver]

Civilised, oh my goodness! Do you remember the story of the Levite and his concubine as related in Judges? They were travelling and reached the town of Gibeah in Benjamin. They were offered a place for the night by a man from Ephraim. During the night a group of Benjamites surrounded his house and demanded the Levite be sent out so they could have sex with him and the owner said to them “ No, my friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this disgraceful thing. Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But to this man, don't do such a disgraceful thing”

In other words in the Israelite viewpoint it’s a disgrace to have sex with a man but gang raping a virgin is OK because women don’t matter. The Levite however gave them his concubine instead and “ they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.”

Not surprisingly she was dead when the Levite came out in the morning so when he got home he cut into pieces and sent the pieces to all Israel who were astonished that such a thing could happen. It was demanded of the Benjamites that they surrender the men who had done the deed but they refused and the upshot was that there was a battle and the victorious Israelites put all the Benjamite towns to the sword, killing everyone including animals. The rest of the story is in Judges 21 and includes further slaughter of fellow Israelites and the abduction of virgins. It is a sickening story and illustrates that the Israelites were not civilized.

The way they treated their womenfolk was appalling compared to the Egyptians for example.

The bible is Egyptian

There is no greater example of this manipulation than the way the reptilian bloodlines like the ‘Jewish’ Rothschilds funded and supported the Nazis and allowed the rank and file Jewish people to reap the unspeakable consequences. The Levite story of Exodus is a smokescreen to hide the fact that the ‘Hebrew’ knowledge was stolen from the Egyptian mystery schools after they were infiltrated by the Babylonian Brotherhood. The Egyptians considered the ‘Jehovah’ revelation to be a robbery committed against the sacred sciences.


Manly P. Hall, the Freemasonic historian and initiate, said that black magic dictated the state religion in Egypt and that the intellectual and spiritual activities of the people were paralyzed by complete obedience to the dogma formulated by the priestcraft. What a perfect description of the Levite-Babylonian mode of manipulation and of all the religions, like Christianity, which were to emerge from the lies they peddled. And that’s a crucial point to remember. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all base their beliefs on these same stories written by the Levites after their stay in Babylon. We are looking at a point in history which was to define and control the world from then until now.



The knowledge the Levites stole from Egypt and expanded as a result of their stay in Babylon, became known as the Cabala (Kabala, Qaballa), which comes from the Hebrew root, QBL, meaning mouth to ear. This is the method used to communicate the most secret information to initiates. The Cabala is the esoteric stream of what is called Judaism, which in fact is a front for the Babylonian Brotherhood, as is the Vatican. The Cabala is the secret knowledge hidden in codes within the Old Testament and other texts. Judaism is the literal interpretation of it. This is a technique you can see in all the religions.

The word Essene is derived from both the Greek and Egyptian words meaning secret and sacred

The word Israel itself, far from being a Jewish appellation, probably comes from the combination of three different reigning deities: Isis, the Earth Mother Goddess revered throughout the ancient world; Ra, the Egyptian sungod; and El, the Semitic deity passed down in form as Saturn. 90 El was one of the earliest names for the god of the ancient Hebrews (whence Emmanu-El, Micha-El, Gabri-El, Samu-El, etc.), and his worship is reflected in the fact that the Jews still consider Saturday as "God's Day."

[f13ticket]

Has anybody here watched Zeitgeist?

I found it quite informative on christianity's similarities with many more ancient religions...

I have, and I did too.

[luciferhorus]

I am begining to think you are taking the ****.

Read the whole chapters of the verses you keep quoting and you will see it clearly states where he is talking to the disciples and where he is talking to the ordinary people and the things required of each group are different.


http://orangejuiceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/hypocrisy-meter-03-21-07.png

This is typical of Christian hypocrisy where on the one hard Christians argue that the words and edicts of Jesus are the words and edicts of the unchanging, infallible God, whose teachings are as relevant today as they were 2000 years ago, and on the other hand they reject his teachings, almost in their entirety.

By stating that Jesus was talking to his followers (his disciples), but that this does not apply to his disciples (the alleged folowers of his "discipline") today, is simply stating that Christians are not his disciples (that they reject his discipline), which is of course very true; this is a very common form of hypocrisy among Christians which allows them to replace the teachings of Jesus with their own personal misinterpretations which are often the anti-thesis of the anti-Capitalist, anti-propertyist teachings of Jesus.

Lux

http://www.luciferia.tv/communist_jesus.jpg

[bendoon]

My point is that it is incorrect to say that Israel was more civilised than the countries surrounding it. It wasn't, as knowledge of the social customs and the laws of other nations shows. Israel's treatment of women was quite appalling and all of it commanded by Yahweh. You shouldn't take the Bible's description of other cultures as the truth since the Bible was written to show the superiority of Yahweh to other Gods and is therfore biased.

Look, its a close call either way. The point is that you and the other Dawkins types like to talk about the "God of war" and all that as if the Israelites were surrounded by peace loving hippies and the Israelites were the mean dudes that terrorised everyone else which is a load of hogwash.

They had many civil laws which may seem harsh to us today but were way ahead of their time, they even had a day off work every week and bank holidays, miners in Scotland had one day off a fortnight only 100 years ago.

As for the surrounding countries being beacons of civilisation.

According to Roman and Greek sources, Phoenicians and Carthaginians sacrificed infants to their gods. The bones of numerous infants have been found in Carthaginian archaeological sites in modern times but the subject of child sacrifice is controversial.[22] In a single child cemetery called the Tophet by archaeologists, an estimated 20,000 urns were deposited.[23]

Retainer sacrifice was practiced within the royal tombs of ancient Mesopotamia. Courtiers, guards, musicians, handmaidens and grooms died, presumed to have taken poison.[15][16] A new examination of skulls from the royal cemetery at Ur, discovered in Iraq almost a century ago, appears to support a more grisly interpretation than before of human sacrifices associated with elite burials in ancient Mesopotamia, archaeologists say. Palace attendants, as part of royal mortuary ritual, were not dosed with poison to meet a rather serene death. Instead, a sharp instrument, a pike perhaps, was driven into their heads.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice#Ancient_Egypt

[luciferhorus]

Look, its a close call either way. The point is that you and the other Dawkins types like to about the "God of war" and all that as if the Israelites were surrounded by peace loving hippies and the Israelites were the mean dudes that terrorised everyone else which is a load of hogwash.

Yes of course. It was a harsh and cruel world. However it must be said that the tribe of liberated African slaves (The Israelites) "were" initially the aggressors; they sought to take over lands and cities, where they slaughtered the populations and took their land, at times sparing only virgin females whom they took as their sex slaves.

Christian archeologists, for example, who were attemting to prove that the walls of Jericho had been destroyed discovered that they had in fact destroyed and rebuilt many times; seige warfare being rather common in those days.

Such forms of warfare for land, tribute, or slaves may have been common in those days, however it is another quite giant leap to make the claim that these incitements to genocide were the infallible word of the unchanging God, whose words are as relevant today as they were in the period they were written.


They had many civil laws which may seem harsh to us today but were way ahead of their time.

Yes indeed, there are "some" aspects of the Mosaic system which were "progressive" for their era; for example it is with the Mosaic system of governance that we find the first instance of a "rebublican" form of government as opposed to tyranny, where the Israelites for 400 years during the period of Judges were ruled by 12 elected judges who governed over another 144 elected judges; this period came to an end with the return to tyranny (monarchy) with the coronation of Saul. We then find a succession of tyrants whom one of the prophets described as a succession of 10 evil kings followed by one righteous king, and the later advent of "Messianic Judaism" which predicted the rise to power of a "righteous king" who would restore the Kingdom of Israel, which was of course, never Moses intention as he appears to have been an anti-Monarchist and a proto-Republican.

The 613 Laws of Moses.

Then we have to consider the tyranny of the law. These laws are simply the ancient laws of a tribe of religious fanatics. More on "Summa Contra Judaism" on the religion forum on http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119157

Just to quote from my own essay:

The 613 Judaic laws include many executable offences, for example for adultery, any type of homosexual act, allowing your ox to gore a child (on a second offence), disobedience to one's parents, any form of divination, necromancy, fortune telling, predicting the future, ancestor worship, idolatry, etc. Further the violation of certain laws by an entire society are genocidal offences (i.e. the total holocaust of all citizens, sparing none).

http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/bible-verses.gif

It is one matter entirely to attempt to understand these laws in the context of the ancient world and another matter entirely to claim that they represent the "infallible word of God" and that they are relevant today and should be restored.

Lux

[bendoon]

Yes of course. It was a harsh and cruel world. However it must be said that the tribe of liberated African slaves (The Israelites) "were" initially the aggressors; they sought to take over lands and cities, where they slaughtered the populations and took their land, at times sparing only virgin females whom they took as their sex slaves.

And then the Assyrians and Babylonians were aggressors against them and then the Medes, Greeks, Romans against them and so on ad infinitum. To try and lay the blame for it all against one particular God or group of people is a non starter.

As for slavery, the Ottoman Empire took millions of slaves from Africa, they castrated the men and used the women for sex slaves.

The Dawkins crowd love to blame everything on the God of the Bible and Christianity as if everyone else was a peace loving victim and its just baloney. More Christians were killed in the last century by Communists (Atheists) than the sum total of all people killed in all wars in known history.

[luciferhorus]

More Christians were killed in the last century by Communists (Atheists) than the sum total of all people killed in all wars in known history.

Yes of course, well Christianity throughout history has ben a militant phenomenon, just as Anglo-American-Christian state terrorism is today.

The Separation of the Wheat from the Chaff.

Anyway, the Christian Book of Revelation depicts a global genocidal war which ends with the defeat of the Capitalists and the establishment of a culture where "nothing is bought or sold;" since probably the majority of Christians "are" Capitalists anyway, and they almost universally reject the teachings of Jesus, surely their genocide would fit in with Christian prophecy; indeed I would think from a Biblical point of view that it would be heretical and blasphemous to suggest that the Christians be spared. After all. the wheat (the anti-Capitalists) and the chaff (the Capitalists) are not merely just to be "separated" but the chaff are also to be cast into the fire.

Lux.

http://www.luciferia.tv/communist_jesus.jpg

[bendoon]

Y
Anyway, the Christian Book of Revelation depicts a global genocidal war which ends with the defeat of the Capitalists and the establishment of a culture where "nothing is bought or sold;" since probably the majority of Christians "are"

I would say the battle of Armageddon is more of a spiritual battle than a genocidal war, think you are missing out a bit on the symbolism there. But I would agree on the part that the "NWO" will fall and be replaced by a more just and equitable system. I think that it will go out with a wimper rather than a mass destruction scenario.

The new age, which I am pretty sure would resemble the one you want too will arrive at the appointed time, problems arise when people decide to bring it forth in their own time by force and under their own terms, wether that be Genghis Khan, Lenin or David Rockefeller..

[omnisense]

I love the name of this thread. lol :D

[luciferhorus]

I would say the battle of Armageddon is more of a spiritual battle than a genocidal war, think you are missing out a bit on the symbolism there.

Well I am not suggesting at all that I "believe" in the propecies of the Book of Revelation; I merely consider them useful as they suggest ultimately the defeat of global Capitalism, if such prophecies are invoked. Certainly there are many things in the Book of Revelation which cannot be taken literally, however the prophecy does speak of a global apocalyptic war and mass destruction; if you have your own personal interpretation (The teachings of Bendoon) that is entirely up to you, but the text certainly does not speak of this apocalyptic war as being "symbolic."

Lux

The Revelation of John: an Israeli Communist perspective.
Lucifer
Aeon of Lucifer 2009
Morning Star.


John’s revelation would be quite familiar to those who have had experiences with shamanic substances which induce visions; you will find numerous shamanic trip reports on http://ww.erowid.org.

Although such visions are common and there is often a message in such visions; it is much like a 'lucid dream' which should not be taken too literally.

If we have a dream where for example, we are fighting a 7 headed beast, this dream may have an important message for us; but if we expect to see a 7 headed beast in real life, we will be disappointed and will probably lose the real 'meaning of the dream.


The point of prophecy is not to predict the future, but to change the future.

I often speak in a prophetical manner of the wars and revolutions to come in the future; I am not merely 'predicting' such things; I am seeking to evoke such prophecies to life.

The Actors.


The Anti-Messiah

There is an Anti-Messiah who seeks total financial control over the world (that none may buy or sell without his permission or mark). He has the power to cast fire down from the sky.

Militant Resistance; the armies of heaven; the righteous of Israel.

This constitutes

1: The Seven Angels
2: The 144,000 righteous of Israel; the Revolutionary Vanguard.
3: The armies of the 200 million.

Nuclear War. The total nuclear destruction of Rome


Frankly the only way to defeat the Capitalists is by nuclear guerrilla war. The idea of 7 people bringing down Capitalism could only be achieved in such a manner. To destroy Rome and Vatican City in the blink of an eye as depicted by John is now possible. If the prophecy of the 7 Angels of the Apocalypse were evoked, Capitalism could well implode on itself; currencies could collapse; the old might eat their young; their kings might well crawl into their caves and beg their Capitalist god for death.


The defeat of the Anti-Messiah

Eventually with his kingdom in ruins, he and his armies are ultimately defeated and the birds of the air eat their flesh; he is captured and burnt.

Day of Judgement.

There is of course a holocaust of the enemies of the Communists; the wheat (the anti-Capitalists) are separated from the chaff and the chaff cast into the fire.


New Jerusalem .City of Light. Zion. 'Lebensraum' for the liberated slaves.

The New Jerusalem is described as a giant 'square' city whose city walls run for about 1200 miles; one side of the wall alone would be the distance between Glasgow and London; thus it is more what we would refer to as a 'region' than a city.

It would be an illuminated transparent City where there is no Temple, no night or day, where nothing is bought or sold and where sickness and human suffering have passed away. This will of course require electricity and advanced medical technology; this is all quite possible.

A City without a Temple where nothing is bought or sold is the Communist agenda; 'not' the agenda of Capitalist Christians.

The 1000 Year Agricultural Revolution.

Weapons are melted down and turned into agricultural implements.

Then shall allegedly begin the 1000 Year agricultural revolution. There shall allegedly be peace for a 1000 years.

All this is the agenda of every Communist; it the various anti-Capitalists of the word who are the vanguard of Revolution; Christian Capitalism on the other hand is simply a mockery of the anti-Capitalist teachings of Jesus.

Long have the Vanguard of Revolution been speaking to all peoples and nations from the sky, judging the living and the dead; forewarning of the apocalypse to come.

Great and Terrible and Dreadful and Wrathful shall be the day of Judgement.

Like a thief in the night, on the clouds of heaven, in a moment when expected least, Capitalism's kingdom shall turn to dust. It will not be a miracle.

Propaganda is the First Stage of War.
Physics is War.

Love and Light

Lux
The 1000 Year Revolution of Light.
Fire, plague and poisoned waters.

[ben87]

http://memes.org/abraham-amp-oil-god-phoenician-child-sacrifice-masonic-33rd-degree-tanit-amp-great-seal-us-quotvquot

"Today, according to World Health Organization/UNESCO statistics..as many as many as 1,000,000 Iraqi (Shiite) children died in Southern regions during the UN/US sponsored "Oil For Poison Food" program. Although official sources indicate most died from "causes associated with malnutrition"...other medical sources claim that "Prussian Blue" (active cyanide") capsules were used as a rat killer and mixed in with the food.

Theoretically, Prussian Blue is simply a food additive. Regardless, if those facts are true..it means 1,000,000 Iraqi Mothers suffered from the United States and the West forcing the sacrifice of 1,000,000 children so that Chevron could have a little more oil. I call it "OIL FOR BLOOD". In addition to the mass casualties administered during "Oil for Posion Food Program" US military have killed an additional 30,000 Iraqi civilians under the age of 18..the US is clearly on track to become the largest sacrificers of children's blood for commercial gain...ever witnessed.

(Congratulations...right wingers...you've out Heroded..Herod!) From a statistical perspective, as horrible as the Canaanite/Phoenicians were at killing their own..I think the U S looks far more bloodthirsty. In fact, I think it's time to outline a few similarities between the Canaanites and the American..unique form of "devil/OIL worshippers?" From my perspective, the ONLY difference between the "Dev-il" worshipping Phoenicians, the Child Sacrificing US Senate and US WhoreHouse of Representatives comes down to to the difference between "Dev-il" and "Dev-oil". No one disputes that Canaanite/Phoenician tribes actively sacrificed "children" to secure the favor of their primary god..."Ba'al El" for perhaps nearly 2,000 years! But did it EVER occur to anyone that Phoenicia weren't "stone age" people...praying for crops and rain? They were the most prolific sea traders on earth for nearly 3,000 years...perhaps more...! The Canaanites were the "wealthiest", most corrupt and among the most horrific culture the middle east had ever known....They too were "PRAYING and Sacrificing FOR TAR and OIL". Despite the fact that their vast fleets were made of wood, the Canaanite cargo ships would fall to pieces without immense quantities of thick, Black "OIL"..which we call "pitch" or "tar" today. Without "pitch oil" the vast fleets would sink within a few days of sailing and their entire culture based on wealth..as a by product of "oil" would collapse.
"

[edelweiss pirate]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles. This is something that many people may find difficult to accept. I hope that this article respects all people as it denounces deception. There are five points here I will make that illustrate this truth.

First, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed as a flesh and bone man.

Second, the Jesus character is the personification of the sun.

Third, the Jesus story is a repeating of the many stories of the many Pagan Sun Gods that preceded it.

Fourth, early Christians never spoke of Jesus as a flesh and blood man.

Five, the goal of attempting to historize Jesus is to pervert Spirituality and create a prison religion to control with.

It is best people research for themselves. I have passed onto you five keys that unlock these shackles. Keys that are very painful for many to turn. So, I leave it to you to turn them. My goal is not to save you as you do not need saving. (Read “Salvation, Damnation, Worship, and Ritual”) My goal is to show you keys and let you alone to do with them what you will.

Dude, Jesus isn't the problem.


You ought to get with the programme mate, btw, the Illuminati, masons and Zionists hate Jesus because he dared to oppose satanism and refused the devil's bargain....

Are you one of them?

I suspect so.


BTW most of your points are wrong except the fact that Jesus was the personifation of the sun. But I know a lot more occult knowledge than you so I know why but I know you don't. You're just somebody's lackey. Heard of enlightenment? 'There is light within a shining person and it shines on the whole world' Oh well, never mind....

You need an advanced course on metaphysics QUICK!

[nectars]

the text certainly does not speak of this apocalyptic war as being "symbolic."

The entire text of the Bible is one huge symbolic allagory, not just a verse here or there. Then again we've already been over this so I guess its not really worth pointing out to yourself or christians(deliberate de-capitalisation).

most of your points are wrong except the fact that Jesus was the personifation of the sun.

Indeed, yet thats only part of it as well as it only takes into account the astrological significance(the Sun -Son- rising and bringing life from Dec 25 though Virgo -the Virgin- etc.) which was noted by the mystics of the time to be concordant with psycho-spiritual tranformation experience which takes place within Man and was then used as a personification of said experience. Obviously this is also directy tied in with the symbolism used as the crucifixion & resurrection as it pertains to astronomical phenomena as seen from the northern hemisphere. Jesus wasn't one Man, he symbolises many Men who went through the same experience and hence the slight differences reported.

The funny thing about all that(astrology) is that people generally look at astrology as showing them where their headed(probably because of the wording "passing though" etc) or whats going to happen when in actuality its a present state reflection of their consciousness which can be transcended or changed.

Anyway... if you got that email f13ticket then you already have that free-pass to that advanced metaphysics and occult course -stay away from the really dark stuff though unless its for theory or utilising alternative tech only. You seem to have enough issues without having to deal with the consequences of that sh*t.

[thirdwave]

Why do people obsess about this topic of Jesus existing or not existing. Why does it matter whether a man lived or did not live 2000 years ago.

What the new testament was for me was a philosophical guide book of how to live and brilliant imo, it does not make me want to listen to a pedo and eat crackers but it does make me want to improve my life and be more helpful to people.

and is that not the point? Too much is made of religion, be greedy - have them all! There is wisdom in all of them.

our society has been built on knowledge that he lived and was our saviour.

It does not matter if the truth is he did not exist?

[thirdwave]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles. This is something that many people may find difficult to accept. I hope that this article respects all people as it denounces deception. There are five points here I will make that illustrate this truth.

First, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed as a flesh and bone man.

Second, the Jesus character is the personification of the sun.

Third, the Jesus story is a repeating of the many stories of the many Pagan Sun Gods that preceded it.

Fourth, early Christians never spoke of Jesus as a flesh and blood man.

Five, the goal of attempting to historize Jesus is to pervert Spirituality and create a prison religion to control with.

It is best people research for themselves. I have passed onto you five keys that unlock these shackles. Keys that are very painful for many to turn. So, I leave it to you to turn them. My goal is not to save you as you do not need saving. (Read “Salvation, Damnation, Worship, and Ritual”) My goal is to show you keys and let you alone to do with them what you will.


All very true..

But Christians would compass heaven and earth to deny it...

[thirdwave]

what about the historical figures associated with jesus, eg pilate, herod, saul/paul etc.

All of that is still just within the bible though... outside of the bible there are no official connections... and again it was not Pilates words it was another persons take...

it always leads to what the bible claims.. yet if the bible was removed then so would every reference to Jesus.


also why do satanists/luciferians use images etc of jesus in their rituals, eg when they mock him etc.
many reasons..

First of all you get petty stupid Satanists, that are no more educated than a fundamentalist Christian... and they just get into what they see as "Satanism" because they are fascist idiots..

then there is the fact that the cross is not a Christian symbol, it is a zodiac symbol and is pagan..

And then there is the fact that just because Jesus was not a flesh and bone person, ir does not mean he is not a valid deity within the occult...

Horus, Isis, and many others are also used in occult rituals, were they felsh and bone people?

[the nine]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles. This is something that many people may find difficult to accept. I hope that this article respects all people as it denounces deception. There are five points here I will make that illustrate this truth.

First, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed as a flesh and bone man.

Second, the Jesus character is the personification of the sun.

Third, the Jesus story is a repeating of the many stories of the many Pagan Sun Gods that preceded it.

Fourth, early Christians never spoke of Jesus as a flesh and blood man.

Five, the goal of attempting to historize Jesus is to pervert Spirituality and create a prison religion to control with.

It is best people research for themselves. I have passed onto you five keys that unlock these shackles. Keys that are very painful for many to turn. So, I leave it to you to turn them. My goal is not to save you as you do not need saving. (Read “Salvation, Damnation, Worship, and Ritual”) My goal is to show you keys and let you alone to do with them what you will.

i can only assume that you mean joshua when you say their is no evidence, Jesus I think is a made up name, a variation of isis if \i am not mistaken..

Joshua/Jesus tried to free mans spirit from the whole separatist creation dream world..he was so successful that his followers would walk willingly to the lions and gladiators to their deaths without fear..this frightened the Romans so much that they hijacked Christianity, and so the canonical bible unfolded there abouts :)

if the bible was there truth, it would not have needed amending a la Copernicus' revelation..

[thirdwave]

Those people that were destroyed were doing horrible things to people, and they weren't your ordinary human beings but hybrids from fallen angels, and human women. Books that talk in detail about this have been removed from the Bible.

probably a bit like when Bush and Obama talk about the "terrorists"

[thirdwave]

No, you are deliberately twisting what I said, again, thats to be expected from a Satanist though.

When it says "And Jesus said to the apostles .............." or "And Jesus said to the multitude ...............", thats what it means and thats who he was talking to. Only the apostles were required to give up their worldly posessions and devote their life to teaching the gospel, which is why he only told them to do so.


Well actually no, what that means is he was using his disciples to spread his teachings... this is why he was supposed to have had them.


why would he want his disciples to do one thing and his followers of the future to do another?... does it not make his teachings to the disciples pointless?

Also the teachings in the bible were meant to be from his disciples... So would they not have felt the need to present the teachings with a little more clarity other than leaving people to guess that when he spoke to his disciples he was not intending us to do the same... ?

[ambler1980]

I see a major problem in threads like this.

Everyone is so quick to believe there is some kind of objective "truth" out there that they must figure out in order to be whole or something.

The only truth is that there is no truth, there are only labels we give things in order to be comfortable with them. Whether or not Jesus existed is not the point. The point is, you have free will, and whatever you believe you perceive, this can be proven at a quantum level...it is the fabric of the universe. Having a belief is literally like having different colored glasses on with a color representing a belief. One guy sees red, one guy sees blue, one guy sees yellow, and so on.

Why is it necessary to convince people of your views? They're YOUR VIEWS, so you will always find reasons and "facts" to believe it. While trying to convince other people of your views is treading on their free will and that's not good. Newsflash: you're beliefs are not wrong. They are there for you to determine your own destiny...people are so desperate to prove they're "right" (no such thing) because they're insecure about their own belief!

Not to mention there are parallel realities to ours where Jesus existed and Jesus didn't, depending on the focus of the masses. Focus determines reality. If you think you're going to hell...guess what?

Addendum:
Insiders who witnessed and participated in time travel experiments, have stated that the future that was seen and experienced depended entirely on the person doing the viewing or traveling. Now of course if you're on the this site you know this has some validity. We're all one consciousness but we're all having different experiences. So whether or not Jesus existed doesn't matter. All that matters is: what do you think? Because it's going to happen.

[bendoon]

leaving people to guess that when he spoke to his disciples he was not intending us to do the same... ?

You don't have to guess, it spelled out clearly so that no one can miss it unless they don't bother to read it and just take the word of some Satanist web site that quotes odd verses out of context to decieve people.

why would he want his disciples to do one thing and his followers of the future to do another?

Some people have to grow food and work or everyone would starve to death, not everyone can give up worldly things and devote their life to teaching others. Besides that who would the disciples teach if everyone was a disciple ?.

[bendoon]

Well I am not suggesting at all that I "believe" in the propecies of the Book of Revelation; I merely consider them useful as they suggest ultimately the defeat of global Capitalism, if such prophecies are invoked. Certainly there are many things in the Book of Revelation which cannot be taken literally, however the prophecy does speak of a global apocalyptic war and mass destruction; if you have your own personal interpretation (The teachings of Bendoon) that is entirely up to you, but the text certainly does not speak of this apocalyptic war as being "symbolic."


The book of revelation is entirely symbolic. There are plenty of prophecies regarding the end of the present age, if you read them all you will arrive at a better understanding rather than just relying on Revelation and trying to make it fit with your own preconcieved idea. The war is the one going on in your own mind, will you choose to follow Good or Evil, God or Satan ?

[phildee3]

The book of revelation is entirely symbolic.



I disagree.
The book is an apocalypse, not a prophesy.
The prophets are in the OT.

Apocalypse means vision,
a vision of what is - of what John saw in the present, not in the future.

The things that John saw were not symbols - they were things actually existing at that time in the etheric.

[ben87]

Either all of the bibel symbolic or it isn't,not just part of it. There is no section at the start of revelations that says NOTE: this text is symbolic.

Where in the bibel does it say its symbolic?

You cannot tell people what parts of the bibel are symbolic. Does it say this somewhere in the book of revelations? Where??

This mystery type hidden message bull is the type peddled by the new agers/masons/mystery religions it sounds really sinister if there is some sort of hidden message that people cannot see until they are "initiated" which isn't happening.

[phildee3]

Either all of the bibel symbolic or it isn't,not just part of it. There is no section at the start of revelations that says NOTE: this text is symbolic.

Where in the bibel does it say its symbolic?

You cannot tell people what parts of the bibel are symbolic. Does it say this somewhere in the book of revelations? Where??

This mystery type hidden message bull is the type peddled by the new agers/masons/mystery religions it sounds really sinister if there is some sort of hidden message that people cannot see until they are "initiated" which isn't happening.

You're partly right, ben.
While Revelation is not hidden in symbols, it is hidden to those who deny a spiritual reality.
Once we accept that there are other realms beyond the purely physical plane, then there is a process of the inner eye opening - which may be seen as a form of "initiation."

[nectars]

Good post but it has problems of its own.

Everyone is so quick to believe there is some kind of objective "truth" out there that they must figure out in order to be whole or something.

The only truth is that there is no truth, there are only labels we give things in order to be comfortable with them. Whether or not Jesus existed is not the point. The point is, you have free will, and whatever you believe you perceive, this can be proven at a quantum level...it is the fabric of the universe. Having a belief is literally like having different colored glasses on with a color representing a belief. One guy sees red, one guy sees blue, one guy sees yellow, and so on.

To say there is "no truth" is a bit silly tbh. What your refering to here is "relative truth within duality", not Absolute Truth beyond the illusion or game. Its true that there is no objective truth since all experience is subjective, and all personal beliefs are experienced as real to the observer as subjective experiences, yet underlying this there is only one way things really are.

Truth to be Truth must stay the same, if it changes then it wasn't True(or Real) to begin with. What is there that never changes? (there is an answer)

Quantum theory has its own flaws.

Read this post for more details as its too much to type up again: God Logic & Schrödinger's experiment(clickable) (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1058909890&postcount=8)

As for free will, its an illusion unless one is completely free of all unconscious mechanisms & programming. We do have limited-free-will but its in choice of identification with states of being only; we can choose only how we react to what we percieve "out there" "in here", beyond this all thinking, feeling and action is limited as its determined by "what we are".

Charles F.Hannel stated this very accurately when he said, "...we must "be" before we can "do," and we can "do" only to the extent which we "are," and what we "are" depends upon what we "think."

The practice of Ontology, and not the philisophising of it is the key to this, and through varried states we experience at all times we are constantly practicing it. "Think" at the end of the above quote refers to "our reaction" by which we decide(and close in on) the new state to which all consequences in life are then subject to and determined by.

Why is it necessary to convince people of your views? They're YOUR VIEWS, so you will always find reasons and "facts" to believe it. While trying to convince other people of your views is treading on their free will and that's not good. Newsflash: you're beliefs are not wrong. They are there for you to determine your own destiny...people are so desperate to prove they're "right" (no such thing) because they're insecure about their own belief!

I agree. Personally I really couldn't care less whether "others" agree with me of not, I dont consider any of it "mine" anyway. I express some of the conclusions I've came to over years of much study, practice and observation in many areas, and if this can help or even allow someone to question something then its been worth mentioning it.

The condition I always put to anyone who asks anything of what I may tell them though is, "dont believe it, prove it for youself". If done honestly then even those who set out to disprove it will prove it to their own dismay -if honest with themselves and their experience. Yet they may still refuse to believe it because of deeply ingrained past habit and the threat it ca pose to "their belief" which in reality isn't "theirs" anyway, its merely and ego positionality.

Not to mention there are parallel realities to ours where Jesus existed and Jesus didn't, depending on the focus of the masses. Focus determines reality. If you think you're going to hell...guess what?

Not entirely accurate -and you can take this for checking.

Individual focus has as much bearing if not more on what you experience than does that of "the masses" unless your constantly accepting as true what the masses are leading you to believe and through this become. Many people think that they "disagree" with the way things are, yet in reality all their doing is "agreeing with it and then complaining about it" which is not the same thing.

Even with a strong enough belief, its not enough to get you into "hell" unless its at a deeper level "what you are". An atheist is an atheist, they dont belive they are an atheist, its what they intrinsically are through what their being.

Addendum:
Insiders who witnessed and participated in time travel experiments, have stated that the future that was seen and experienced depended entirely on the person doing the viewing or traveling. Now of course if you're on the this site you know this has some validity. We're all one consciousness but we're all having different experiences. So whether or not Jesus existed doesn't matter.

Indeed. All possibilites exist now; nothing can be created only displayed. There is no time or space and "causality" is an illusion used to create the apparency of experience through contrast.

Check it out -or not. Believe it or dont, it really makes no difference anyway.

[thirdwave]

You don't have to guess, it spelled out clearly so that no one can miss it unless they don't bother to read it and just take the word of some Satanist web site that quotes odd verses out of context to decieve people.

I haver not really taken the words of any Satanist website, I hgave simple done my own research with an unattached mind.

It is clearly not spelled out at all. and one only needs to read the bible to see that.


Some people have to grow food and work or everyone would starve to death

Yes, no one is saying that its a good set of teachings, But they are his teachings.

not everyone can give up worldly things and devote their life to teaching others.

Well I do agree!, are you just saying we should use common sense now? although his desiples also worked... or at least they would have needed too!

Where does it say in the bible that some teachings where just for his disciples?... and when he "spoke to his desiples" (who he used to spread his teachings) he was only teaching them and them alone?

Besides that who would the disciples teach if everyone was a disciple ?.
lol, so they dont want to convert the word to God, because it would leave the disciples jobless? ??

[thirdwave]

I think this from Jesus is very relevent here

"17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you"

[rapunzel]

The bible is Egyptian

Care to provide some proof of this? I know you don’t like being asked to provide sources or proof but there must be some reason for you to say this and it would be helpful to know what your reasons are.

There is no greater example of this manipulation than the way the reptilian bloodlines like the ‘Jewish’ Rothschilds funded and supported the Nazis and allowed the rank and file Jewish people to reap the unspeakable consequences. The Levite story of Exodus is a smokescreen to hide the fact that the ‘Hebrew’ knowledge was stolen from the Egyptian mystery schools after they were infiltrated by the Babylonian Brotherhood. The Egyptians considered the ‘Jehovah’ revelation to be a robbery committed against the sacred sciences.

Again, some reasons for your belief would be nice.


Manly P. Hall, the Freemasonic historian and initiate, said that black magic dictated the state religion in Egypt and that the intellectual and spiritual activities of the people were paralyzed by complete obedience to the dogma formulated by the priestcraft. What a perfect description of the Levite-Babylonian mode of manipulation and of all the religions, like Christianity, which were to emerge from the lies they peddled. And that’s a crucial point to remember. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all base their beliefs on these same stories written by the Levites after their stay in Babylon. We are looking at a point in history which was to define and control the world from then until now.

I have read Manly Hall and he shows a lack of real knowledge about ancient Egypt and its religion. He says that the Book of the Dead was a book of initiation; it wasn’t. To say, as he does, that “…intellectual and spiritual activities of the people were paralyzed by complete obedience to the dogma formulated by the priestcraft” is hilarious. The religion of the common people was not dictated by the priests, as anyone with the slightest knowledge of Egypt would know. The function of the Egyptian religion and of the Pharaoh was to maintain a state of “Maat”

The knowledge the Levites stole from Egypt and expanded as a result of their stay in Babylon, became known as the Cabala (Kabala, Qaballa), which comes from the Hebrew root, QBL, meaning mouth to ear. This is the method used to communicate the most secret information to initiates. The Cabala is the esoteric stream of what is called Judaism, which in fact is a front for the Babylonian Brotherhood, as is the Vatican. The Cabala is the secret knowledge hidden in codes within the Old Testament and other texts. Judaism is the literal interpretation of it. This is a technique you can see in all the religions.

It has never been proven that the Israelites were ever in Egypt so it cannot be said that they “stole” anything from there. I thought QBL meant “receiving” or “tradition”. You copied all that from “The Biggest Secret” didn’t you? There’s an awful lot of nonsense in that book including the Jesus= Horus idea.


The word Essene is derived from both the Greek and Egyptian words meaning secret and sacred

The etymology of the word is unknown but Philo thought it meant “holy” so the meaning is probably correct but not the origin. Which Greek and Egyptian words is it derived from?

The word Israel itself, far from being a Jewish appellation, probably comes from the combination of three different reigning deities: Isis, the Earth Mother Goddess revered throughout the ancient world; Ra, the Egyptian sungod; and El, the Semitic deity passed down in form as Saturn. 90 El was one of the earliest names for the god of the ancient Hebrews (whence Emmanu-El, Micha-El, Gabri-El, Samu-El, etc.), and his worship is reflected in the fact that the Jews still consider Saturday as "God's Day."

Israel means “God prevails” or “God strives”. You know where to find it in the Bible I’m sure. To suggest that it means IS – RA –EL after three deities is nonsense of the highest order. Why should the Israelites name their god after the Greek name of an Egyptian deity. Yahweh was certainly derived from El the Canaanite Father God. Was this from Acharya S? I’ve seen it lots of times and it just gets repeated unthinkingly by the gullible.

[rapunzel]

Look, its a close call either way. The point is that you and the other Dawkins types like to talk about the "God of war" and all that as if the Israelites were surrounded by peace loving hippies and the Israelites were the mean dudes that terrorised everyone else which is a load of hogwash.

They had many civil laws which may seem harsh to us today but were way ahead of their time, they even had a day off work every week and bank holidays, miners in Scotland had one day off a fortnight only 100 years ago

I’m not a “Dawkins type”! and I never suggested the Israelites were surrounded by “peace loving hippies” and I don’t think anyone else has suggested it either. For goodness sake, get a grip!

By saying the Israelites were way ahead of their time compared to surrounding countries I presume you are familiar with the social customs of the entire ANE? If not then how do you know they were ahead of other countries?

From papyri found at Deir el Medina in Egypt the craftsmen worked an eight-hour shift separated into a morning and afternoon session, during a ten-day workweek, with two days off. Egyptians also had days off for the numerous festivals that occurred throughout the year – 30 plus I think.

As for the surrounding countries being beacons of civilisation.


According to Roman and Greek sources, Phoenicians and Carthaginians sacrificed infants to their gods. The bones of numerous infants have been found in Carthaginian archaeological sites in modern times but the subject of child sacrifice is controversial.[22] In a single child cemetery called the Tophet by archaeologists, an estimated 20,000 urns were deposited.[23]

According to Roman and Greek sources….. Rome and Carthage were fierce enemies. Ever heard of black propaganda? Do you think it is a modern invention.? Tertullian in his Apologeticus records that the Romans accused Christians of child sacrifice:

“We are said to be the most criminal of men, on the score of our sacramental baby-killing [sacramento infanticidii] and the baby-eating that goes with it and the incest that follows the banquet where the dogs are our pimps in the dark, forsooth, and make a sort of decency for guilty lusts by overturning our lamps.”

So if you believe that the Romans were correct in accusing the Carthaginians of child sacrifice then you have to believe that they were correct when they accused the early Christians of doing so.

Studies by osteologists (bone specialists) have shown that the children in these Carthaginian cemeteries were not sacrifices and cremation was the recognized disposal method for children who died. There are no cemeteries for children elsewhere so if you still think that Carthaginian children were sacrificed then they must have sacrificed every single child! By the way the bones were not just of infants but of much older children and also a number of fetuses. Source: Jeffrey Schwartz PhD physical anthropologist and professor of biological anthropology at the University of Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh, PA and official osteologist at the Carthage excavation

Schwartz also says:

“In fact, the statistics at present indicate that, on the basis of cranial and long bone measurements, approximately 81 percent of all individuals in my sample -- whether from single individual urns or double individual urns -- were late third-trimester fetuses...These statistics imply that at least 54 percent, but possibly as many as 81 percent, of the individuals from my sample died of natural causes before they were cremated -- which means, of course, that most of the individuals in this sample had not been sacrificed in the sense of being victims of a blood-killing.”

You will find that most modern historians and archaeologists believe that wholesale child sacrifice was a myth as there is no evidence for it. That’s not to say it might not have occurred in times of great strife when the king’s son might be sacrificed. There is no archaeological or historical evidence for wholesale human sacrifice in the ANE as described in the Bible


Retainer sacrifice was practiced within the royal tombs of ancient Mesopotamia. Courtiers, guards, musicians, handmaidens and grooms died, presumed to have taken poison.[15][16] A new examination of skulls from the royal cemetery at Ur, discovered in Iraq almost a century ago, appears to support a more grisly interpretation than before of human sacrifices associated with elite burials in ancient Mesopotamia, archaeologists say. Palace attendants, as part of royal mortuary ritual, were not dosed with poison to meet a rather serene death. Instead, a sharp instrument, a pike perhaps, was driven into their heads.[17]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_s...#Ancient_Egypt

The graves at Ur were from 2800 BC, long before the period we are talking about. Do you know what the word “charem” means in the Bible? It’s usually translated as “devoted to the Lord” or “set apart for the Lord”. It actually means that the thing devoted is to be utterly destroyed.” to ban, devote, destroy utterly, completely destroy, dedicate for destruction, exterminate” is the translation. So to “devote something to the Lord” is to destroy it and if it is a living thing to kill it. This is the rule Jephthah was following when he sacrificed his daughter. Incidentally when Jephtaah made the vow to make a burnt offering of the first things that would come through the door to greet him did he not realize that it might be a human being? Apparantly Yahweh did not realize that either since he gave him the victory that J. had asked for.

In Joshua 6:17-18 speaking of Jericho and how everything in it is to be destroyed this word is used. Now look at Leviticus 27:28-29 and note that it speaks of things a man may devote to the Lord. The previous verses of this chapter speak of redeeming things from the priests by paying money but these verses say the following things must not be redeemed i.e. both man and beast. Get that? A man, a human being can be promised to the Lord but cannot be redeemed, he must be destroyed, i.e. put to death The following verse makes this clear

” None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; [but] shall surely be put to death”

I have seen whingeing apologists try to prove that this refers to capital punishment but the previous verse, verse 28 speaks of “devoting men” and that is not capital punishment

The same word is used in 1 Samuel 15:3

“Now go and completely destroy (charem) the entire Amalekite nation--men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, camels, and donkeys.' "

Most people will know Exodus 22:29 which says:

“You must give me the firstborn of your sons.”

Is this what Ezekiel 20:25-26 means when he records Yahweh as saying:

“ Moreover I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life; and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first-born, that I might horrify them; I did it that they might know that I am the LORD. “

Jon Levenson, the Albert A. List professor of Jewish Studies at Harvard Divinity School in “The Death and Resurrection of the Beloved Son (1993),” states that "only at a particular stage rather late in the history of Israel was child sacrifice branded as counter to the will of YHWH and thus ipso facto idolatrous."

He also believes that for most of biblical history, Yahweh was not against child sacrifice per se, but rather against child sacrifice to other gods.


In another section it describes how the first born sons can be redeemed with money but I wonder why this verse does not say that? Modern Torah obedient Jews still redeem their first born sons with a Cohen by paying him money. Proof that much of the Torah was written by priests who benefit financially and economically by the Laws. Fancy that; a law which says your child will be sacrificed unless you pay me money? Ethics?

It is said that human sacrifice is carried out to avert the wrath of a God. In David’s time there was a famine and God said that it was because Saul had killed some Gideonites and tried to annihilate the rest. The Gideonites ask David to hand over Saul’s sons and grandsons:

“let seven of his male descendants be given to us to be killed and exposed before the Lord at Gibeah of Saul”.

2 Samuel 21:6

The result was that after this and after the bones of Saul and Jonathen had been brought and buried with the other bodies Yahweh ended the famine.

In the book,”The David Story” , Robert Alter, professor of Hebrew and Comparative Literature at UC Berkeley, states, “‘Before the Lord’ is an explicit indication of the sacrificial nature of the killings"

Matthew Henry,17th century Bible commentator and Presbyterian minister says in his commentary, and notes the significance of the timing: “They were put to death at the beginning of harvest; they were thus sacrificed to turn away the wrath of Almighty God, who had withheld the harvest-mercies for some years past, and to obtain his favour in the present harvest.” As Henry confirms, then, they were "sacrificed" to obtain God's favour.

How does this fit with the instruction that the sons shall not suffer for the sins of the father?

What are the other civil laws that you say were way ahead of their time? At least the Egyptians didn’t execute non virgins or insolent children or perhaps you are like some Christians who say these laws should be brought back to ensure a stable society? Women in Egypt had a much higher status than those in Israel and in fact than women in most other ANE countries. In Babylon a husband could punish an adulterous wife but he had the option to forgive her; that was not the case in Israel. Nor were people put to death in other countries as they were in Israel for the “crime” of worshipping another God,

Israelites who sold themselves into bond service were free after six years. In Babylon they were free after four years. Of course there are elements in the Hebrew Law Codes that are more humane than those of other countries but there are elements that are not.

[bendoon]

EThere is no section at the start of revelations that says NOTE: this text is symbolic.

Where in the bibel does it say its symbolic?



Looks like it to me.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

that people cannot see until they are "initiated" which isn't happening.

You aren't "initated", you can read it for yourself and God will open your eyes if you are ready. The people who would have you think you need to be initiated are the one's who are playing God themselves.

[bendoon]

I

It is clearly not spelled out at all. and one only needs to read the bible to see that.

Look, you are just plain wrong. You can see clearly who Jesus is speaking to in every case, it is clearly spelled out.

Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,


Mat 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with [his] wife, it is not good to marry.
Mat 19:11 But he said unto them, All [men] cannot receive this saying, save [they] to whom it is given.

[thirdwave]

Look, you are just plain wrong. You can see clearly who Jesus is speaking to in every case, it is clearly spelled out.

Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,


Mat 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with [his] wife, it is not good to marry.
Mat 19:11 But he said unto them, All [men] cannot receive this saying, save [they] to whom it is given.


err. ok, lets try this...

So show me something were Jesus is talking to us.

[tomt]

Santa=Satan



http://translate.google.com/#auto|en|santa

[lizard_monkey]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles.



http://www.pumerch.de/images/jesus_jedi_shirt.jpg

http://liberalbaptistrev.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/mary-magdalene.jpg

[nectars]

http://www.pumerch.de/images/jesus_jedi_shirt.jpg

lol, pr0 :D

[the nine]

http://liberalbaptistrev.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/mary-magdalene.jpg

is that a masonic handshake btw?

[edelweiss pirate]

is that a masonic handshake btw?


Possibly, remember, the masons built the churches.

Doubtful whether Jesus even had long hair at all!

Some say that when they portray Jesus they are actually showing Saturn.

[drakul]

http://www.pumerch.de/images/jesus_jedi_shirt.jpg



Jesus was a JEDI - What else? NOW we're talking. Jesus knew how to bring down the Force. We all have that power. But there is one difference, Jesus WORKED at developing that skill - 40 days and 40 nights in the desert without food or water, etc. See back then, people knew it was possible to connect with the Force, (kinda like Nikola Tesla). Now we just watch TV and learn that Jesus never lived.

May the FORCE be with You! :)

[drakul]

http://liberalbaptistrev.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/mary-magdalene.jpg


That sure as hell does look like a Masonic handshake. But isn't that the agenda? The book Da Vinci Code (Mary Magdalene had a baby by Jesus) is ALL about making the Masons look good. You see the Masons are the inheritors of the Knights Templar who were the keepers of the secret of the Jesus bloodline. :rolleyes:

[lizard_monkey]

Jesus was a JEDI - What else? NOW we're talking. Jesus knew how to bring down the Force. We all have that power. But there is one difference, Jesus WORKED at developing that skill - 40 days and 40 nights in the desert without food or water, etc. See back then, people knew it was possible to connect with the Force, (kinda like Nikola Tesla). Now we just watch TV and learn that Jesus never lived.

May the FORCE be with You! :)

Jedi Master or JESUS? Jesus Christ the jedi - YouTube

[one666]

The next thing that is required for understanding truth is that people break out of the confining Jesus Christ of Nazareth shackles. This is something that many people may find difficult to accept. I hope that this article respects all people as it denounces deception. There are five points here I will make that illustrate this truth.

First, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed as a flesh and bone man.

Second, the Jesus character is the personification of the sun.

Third, the Jesus story is a repeating of the many stories of the many Pagan Sun Gods that preceded it.

Fourth, early Christians never spoke of Jesus as a flesh and blood man.

Five, the goal of attempting to historize Jesus is to pervert Spirituality and create a prison religion to control with.

It is best people research for themselves. I have passed onto you five keys that unlock these shackles. Keys that are very painful for many to turn. So, I leave it to you to turn them. My goal is not to save you as you do not need saving. (Read “Salvation, Damnation, Worship, and Ritual”) My goal is to show you keys and let you alone to do with them what you will.

The only way to free the world from the jesus shackles is to Destroy the Roman catholic church. http://unitedworldchurch.blogspot.com http://churchof666.blogspot.com