A Real Education

[exford]

The education nobody got!

Well worth 10 minutes of your time.

Classrooms of the Heart - John Gatto (1991) - YouTube

[wakeupworld]

Good video, however his website I`m not sure about when it comes to asking for donations.

Basically what John Gatto is doing in this video is just stating obvious common-sense but at least credit to him for that.

[exford]

Common sense sure is hard to come by these days.:)

[tony le mesmer]

Great video that, thats for posting.

I wish I could communicate as well as that guy, sometimes kids are herded to television or filling in homework tests and I just wish I could help to bring that other kind of education to the kids among my family and friends. How do you get to the stage of independant learning ? Worth thinking about.

[exford]

He certainly is an interesting guy to listen to.

You can hear an excellent two part interview with him below.
podcasts #68 & #69

http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/

[raven_patronus]

This is interesting, and I agree with this educator.

I also think that good teachers should be allowed to keep their students for more than one year.

I think we do teach young people to be "parasites." We show them to feed off the system, become a, "well rounded student" which means a Jack of all trades, which isn't good.

I like how these students could pick what they want to focus on, where they want to go to learn constructively and prepare for the real-world.

[exford]

Below are the 7 lessons that JTG realised he was teaching his pupils throughout his teaching career,through the American education system.
This system which is based on the Prussian model,is at the core of the majority of education systems across the modern world.

It produces standardised individuals/consumers en masse.



1. Confusion – Mr. Gatto’s first point is that children are taught a mass of disconnected facts. He states, “The logic of the school-mind is that it is better to leave school with a tool kit of superficial jargon…than to leave with one genuine enthusiasm.�?

The memorization of facts only to repeat them on a test is dull and pointless. That is what school is for most kids. For the rest it is about getting good grades. Purpose of education (understanding and development) is ignored.


2. Class Position – “Everyone has a proper place in the pyramid…there is no way out of your class…you must stay where you are put.�?

This is definitely one of the lessons I took away from high school. As a student in high level classes I felt resentment from lower level students and was encouraged by teachers to consider them less intelligent. The division caused students to behave according to their level. The high level students become pretentious and the low level students misbehaved.

3. Indifference – “When the bell rings I insist that they stop whatever it is that we’ve been working on and proceed quickly to the next work station…They must turn on and off like a light switch.

In what purposeful system do people invest themselves for a short period, then drop everything because of an arbitrary bell and start doing something totally different. This makes no sense at all and it teaches children not to care about what they learning.

4. Emotional Dependency – “By stars and red checks, smiles and frowns, prizes, honors and disgraces I teach kids to surrender their will to the predestined chain of command.�?

Students are taught that their happiness is controlled by the teacher. Obey him, follow the crowd and you are rewarded, act independently and you are punished. This destroys individuality and prepares people for a life time of passive indifference

5. Intellectual Dependency – “Good people wait for a teacher to tell them what to do. It is the most important lesson, that we must wait for other people, better trained than ourselves, to make the meanings of our lives.�?

This point gets me fired up. We are trained to believe our own thoughts are stupid. We must rely on “experts�? to show us the way. This puts us under the power of the “experts�? and preempts the development of ability. We are always surprised what we can do for ourselves.

6. Provisional Self-Esteem – “The lesson of report cards, grades, and tests is that children should not trust themselves or their parents but should instead rely on the evaluation of certified officials.�?

This lesson falls in line with four and five to form the triumvirate of “expert�? dependence: emotional, intellectual, and self-esteem. This dependence extends past childhood into adult life. How greatly does your boss’s opinion effect your emotions? He/she praises and we feel great, he/she scolds and we are scared and upset. From childhood we are conditioned to submit to authority.

7. One Can’t Hide – “I teach children they are always watched, that each is under constant surveillance by myself and my colleagues.�?

Our superiors are always watching. I know this is true for me. We must stay always on our best behavior or we will be punished. Being constantly on edge creates passive individuals that lack the spontaneity and confidence to innovate.

[exford]

. How do you get to the stage of independant learning ? Worth thinking about.

http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/trivium.html

[anonymous240610]

wow... so much of my life keeps making sense the more I wake up and see. I always felt my kids being pressured into learning and getting good grades and deciding what they wanted to be before they had even experienced the world was completely unnecessary. I always felt that our school system was robbing our children of the experience of being children. I have always allowed my kids to have a "wag day" each term in which they can take time out from school and do what they would like to do (obviously nothing criminal!), but I have to be careful because if I allow my children too many days off I can be charged with educational neglect! My daughter has been taught by her dad that she MUST GET GOOD GRADES and now he even puts them in direct competition with each other, so that they feel they must outdo each other, and when one gets lesser grades, they actually feel like they are a bad kid! I have always focused on the teachers comments, if the teacher says my daughter is thoughtful and considerate of others and respectful, these are the things I value higher than the grades she gets. I have always encouraged my kids to think for themselves, and not believe anything ANYONE tells them is true, including myself. I tell my kids to go out and live life and travel before they look for work after they finish school, because I feel that is more important than getting yourself locked into a mind-numbing trap of monotonous repetition like I had.

I think that my son's English teacher may be awake, as she first got the students to read 1984, then taught them about propoganda, then she showed them The Inconvenient Truth and I thought "uh-oh... there they go again, making kids believe in false crap because they're told its true", but instead after showing it to them, she turned around and asked them what they believed to be true and why they believed it to be true, and then told them they should NEVER believe what someone tells them is true, they should always find the answer for themselves, otherwise they will just be vulnerable to propoganda. She really wanted to drive home the message "He who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past"

What an awesome teacher. How lucky my son is. How lucky I am that he has a teacher so awake while his dad fights to keep my son asleep and tells him not to believe the bullshit his mum believes. How lucky I am that his teacher gives him the same message I give him...

"Don't believe what I say to be true, don't believe what ANYBODY says to be true... find the truth for yourself"

[exford]

"Don't believe what I say to be true, don't believe what ANYBODY says to be true... find the truth for yourself"

That certainly is an eloquent statement.

Not only is your son lucky to have such a teacher,he's even luckier to have a mother like you.

[smoke n mirrors]

He certainly is an interesting guy to listen to.

You can hear an excellent two part interview with him below.
podcasts #68 & #69

http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/

Thanks for posting very worth while listening. :)

Audio Part One Direct Link (http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-03-05T00_01_15-08_00)

Audio Part Two Direct Link (http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-03-15T00_11_48-07_00)

.

[exford]

Thanks for posting very worth while listening. :)

Audio Part One Direct Link (http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-03-05T00_01_15-08_00)

Audio Part Two Direct Link (http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-03-15T00_11_48-07_00)

.

I'm sure you'll appreciate the material on the link below,it follows on from the ones you've just heard.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126743

[exford]

"Whatever an education is, it should make you a unique individual, not a conformist; it should furnish you with an original spirit with which to tackle the big challenges; it should allow you to find values which will be your road map through life; it should make you spiritually rich, a person who loves whatever you are doing, wherever you are, whomever you are with; it should teach you what is important, how to live and how to die."

– John Taylor Gatto

[unenlightened_waffle]

I wish I had this teaching when I was a kid!

I hope beyond all hopes I have had that this becomes the basis of a new education system in the future. If only we could get every teacher in britain to teach like this the mass awakening would not be a dream, it would be a fact.

[exford]

I wish I had this teaching when I was a kid!

I hope beyond all hopes I have had that this becomes the basis of a new education system in the future. If only we could get every teacher in britain to teach like this the mass awakening would not be a dream, it would be a fact.

Unfortunately we are educated to conform and consume,instead of thinking for ourselves and being creative.:mad:

[exford]

"I've noticed a facinating phenomenon in my thiry years of teaching: schools and schooling are increasingly irrelvant to the great enterprises of the planet. No one believes anymore that scientists are trained in science classes or politicians in civics classes or poets in English classes. The truth is that schools don't really teach anyting except how to obey orders. This is a great mystery to me because thousands of humane, caring people work in schools as teachers and aides and administrators, but the abstract logic of the instituion overwhelms their individual contributions. Although teachers to care and do work very, very hard, the instituion is psychopathic -- it has no conscience. It rings a bell and the young man in the middle of writing a poem must close his notebook and move to a different cell where he must memorize that humans and monkeys derive from a common ancestor."
— John Taylor Gatto

[delamo1999]

Unfortunately we are educated to conform and consume,instead of thinking for ourselves and being creative.:mad:


Also we have been brainwashed to believe that "time is money". Also we have been taught from a young age that extreme multitasking is necessary if one wants to do anything with their lives.

We go to preschool, then primary school, then secondary school. All this time our folks are saving every penny so that we can then go to a university and get a piece of paper which will tell a propective employer that we have had the correct indoctrination to be able to perform a job with their company.

It's no wonder many people who were really energetic, enthousiastic, and creative about life have turned into robots by the time they are 30.

:):)

[exford]

Also we have been brainwashed to believe that "time is money". Also we have been taught from a young age that extreme multitasking is necessary if one wants to do anything with their lives.

We go to preschool, then primary school, then secondary school. All this time our folks are saving every penny so that we can then go to a university and get a piece of paper which will tell a propective employer that we have had the correct indoctrination to be able to perform a job with their company.

It's no wonder many people who were really energetic, enthousiastic, and creative about life have turned into robots by the time they are 30.

:):)

And what happens when you graduate,they put a square board on your round head(squaring the circle).
You then become a standardised individual,another brick in the wall!!

http://a5cg.com/zenc/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=28

[delamo1999]

And what happens when you graduate,they put a square board on your round head(squaring the circle).
You then become a standardised individual,another brick in the wall!!

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vets.umich.edu/choosing/images/Picture041.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.vets.umich.edu/choosing/gradprof.html&usg=__1ScKhDiikYa-E6unrHGacLpfXgw=&h=466&w=700&sz=36&hl=en&start=65&tbnid=GS13kp3-AfjzuM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=182&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgraduate%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1000%26bih %3D442%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C1934&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=227&vpy=142&dur=1211&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=145&ty=113&ei=x1JXTKT4PI380wTTjey3Cw&page=7&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:65&biw=1000&bih=442


That is correct for most people. The companies who I worked for tried to do that and when I refused to do it, I found myself out of a job. I myself cannot put myself into a box that is filled with conformist and narrow minded views.

Our current work structure does not offer much in the way of spiritual growth. Also I myself have found that I have needed to take rests during the day because of my rapid spiritual growth. In the workplace it is basically nose to the grindstone and butt to the wall and if you get emotionally overwhelmed it is too bad. When this happens one needs to just bite their lips and march on onto the task at hand is done. Also there is a mentality that in order to have a home life one needs to have a strong work life first. All of this is backwards and not healthy for a healthy spiritual life.

:):)

[exford]

This website was established in the last few days,to help create an awareness of the Trivium Method.


The Trivium
: [1] General Grammar,[2] Formal Logic,[3] Classical Rhetoric

The Trivium (which pertains to Mind)- the elementary three.

[1] GRAMMAR (discovering and ordering facts of reality comprises basic, systematic Knowledge)- not only the rules developed and applied to the ordering of word/concepts for verbal expression and communication, but our first contact with conscious order as such. This is the initial, self-conscious technique used in properly (discursively or sequentially) organizing a body of knowledge from raw, factual data for the purpose of gaining understanding (through logic) and; thus, also organizing the individual human mind. It is the foundation upon which all other "methods of organization and order" are built. Special grammar properly relates words to other words within a specified language like English, Russian, or Latin. General grammar relates words to objective reality in any language and applies to all subjects as the first set of building blocks to integrated or fully mindful, objective knowledge. A body of knowledge which has been gathered and arranged under the rules of general grammar can now be subjected to logic for full understanding, which, emphatically, is a separate intellectual procedure.

[2] LOGIC (developing the faculty of reason in establishing valid [i.e., non-contradictory] relationships among facts yields basic, systematic Understanding) it is a guide for thinking correctly; thinking without contradiction. More concisely, it is the art of non-contradictory identification. The work of logic is proof. Proof consists of establishing the truth and validity of a concept or proposition in correspondence with objective, factual reality by following a self-consistent chain of higher-level thought back down to foundational, primary concepts or axioms (i.e., Existence, Consciousness, and Causality). It is a means of keeping us in touch and grounded to objective reality in our search for valid knowledge and understanding. Logic brings the rhythm of the subjective thoughts of the mind, and the subsequent actions of the body, into harmony with the rhythm of the objective universe.
This is the intended tone of the entire letter: to amicably synchronize individual mental processes, and their attendant actions, with the processes of our surrounding natural, factual existence over the period of a lifetime.

[3] RHETORIC (applying knowledge and understanding expressively comprises Wisdom or, in other words, it is systematically useable knowledge and understanding)-
to explore and find the proper choice of methods for cogently expressing the conclusions of grammar and logic on a subject in writing and/or oral argumentation (oratory). The annunciation of those conclusions is called a statement of rationale, the set of instructions deduced from the rationale for the purpose of application (of those conclusions) in the real world is called a statement of protocols.

http://534trivium.net/index.html

[exford]

The Elite Private Boarding Schools!


John Taylor Gatto - 01 The Elite Private Boarding Schools - YouTube

[dalsar]

The education nobody got!

Well worth 10 minutes of your time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26DvPQ7EIQ4&feature=related

A Real education? is this a video? where is the link?

and what does this 'real education' teach ?

[exford]

Charlotte Iserbyt - Deliberate Dumbing Down of the World!

Charlotte Iserbyt - Deliberate Dumbing Down of the World - YouTube

[joel1212]

That certainly is an eloquent statement.

Not only is your son lucky to have such a teacher,he's even luckier to have a mother like you.

+1!!!!

[exford]

This is a remarkable speech,covering all the information and ideas in this thread.
An inspirational 10 mins

enjoy :)





Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling - YouTube

[exford]

John Taylor Gatto - State Controlled Consciousness - YouTube

[exford]

Hello !!!!

[smoke n mirrors]

Hello! :)

[exford]

Hello! :)


Thanks:D

[exford]

The Intellectual Elite vs. You/The Resurrection of Critical Thinking




http://peacerevolution.podomatic.com/

[exford]

What is Classical Education?

by Susan Wise Bauer

Classical education depends on a three-part process of training the mind. The early years of school are spent in absorbing facts, systematically laying the foundations for advanced study. In the middle grades, students learn to think through arguments. In the high school years, they learn to express themselves. This classical pattern is called the trivium.

The first years of schooling are called the “grammar stage” — not because you spend four years doing English, but because these are the years in which the building blocks for all other learning are laid, just as grammar is the foundation for language. In the elementary school years — what we commonly think of as grades one through four — the mind is ready to absorb information. Children at this age actually find memorization fun. So during this period, education involves not self-expression and self-discovery, but rather the learning of facts. Rules of phonics and spelling, rules of grammar, poems, the vocabulary of foreign languages, the stories of history and literature, descriptions of plants and animals and the human body, the facts of mathematics — the list goes on. This information makes up the “grammar,” or the basic building blocks, for the second stage of education.

By fifth grade, a child’s mind begins to think more analytically. Middle-school students are less interested in finding out facts than in asking “Why?” The second phase of the classical education, the “Logic Stage,” is a time when the child begins to pay attention to cause and effect, to the relationships between different fields of knowledge relate, to the way facts fit together into a logical framework.

A student is ready for the Logic Stage when the capacity for abstract thought begins to mature. During these years, the student begins algebra and the study of logic, and begins to apply logic to all academic subjects. The logic of writing, for example, includes paragraph construction and learning to support a thesis; the logic of reading involves the criticism and analysis of texts, not simple absorption of information; the logic of history demands that the student find out why the War of 1812 was fought, rather than simply reading its story; the logic of science requires that the child learn the scientific method.

The final phase of a classical education, the “Rhetoric Stage,” builds on the first two. At this point, the high school student learns to write and speak with force and originality. The student of rhetoric applies the rules of logic learned in middle school to the foundational information learned in the early grades and expresses his conclusions in clear, forceful, elegant language. Students also begin to specialize in whatever branch of knowledge attracts them; these are the years for art camps, college courses, foreign travel, apprenticeships, and other forms of specialized training.

A classical education is more than simply a pattern of learning, though. Classical education is language-focused; learning is accomplished through words, written and spoken, rather than through images (pictures, videos, and television).

Why is this important? Language-learning and image-learning require very different habits of thought. Language requires the mind to work harder; in reading, the brain is forced to translate a symbol (words on the page) into a concept. Images, such as those on videos and television, allow the mind to be passive. In front of a video screen, the brain can “sit back” and relax; faced with the written page, the mind is required to roll its sleeves up and get back to work.

A classical education, then, has two important aspects. It is language-focused. And it follows a specific three-part pattern: the mind must be first supplied with facts and images, then given the logical tools for organization of facts, and finally equipped to express conclusions.

But that isn’t all. To the classical mind, all knowledge is interrelated. Astronomy (for example) isn’t studied in isolation; it’s learned along with the history of scientific discovery, which leads into the church’s relationship to science and from there to the intricacies of medieval church history. The reading of the Odyssey leads the student into the consideration of Greek history, the nature of heroism, the development of the epic, and man’s understanding of the divine.

This is easier said than done. The world is full of knowledge, and finding the links between fields of study can be a mind-twisting task. A classical education meets this challenge by taking history as its organizing outline — beginning with the ancients and progressing forward to the moderns in history, science, literature, art and music.

We suggest that the twelve years of education consist of three repetitions of the same four-year pattern: Ancients, Middle Ages, Renaissance and Reformation, and Modern Times. The child studies these four time periods at varying levels — simple for grades 1-4, more difficult in grades 5-8 (when the student begins to read original sources), and taking an even more complex approach in grades 9-12, when the student works through these time periods using original sources (from Homer to Hitler) and also has the opportunity to pursue a particular interest (music, dance, technology, medicine, biology, creative writing) in depth.

The other subject areas of the curriculum are linked to history studies. The student who is working on ancient history will read Greek and Roman mythology, the tales of the Iliad and Odyssey, early medieval writings, Chinese and Japanese fairy tales, and (for the older student) the classical texts of Plato, Herodutus, Virgil, Aristotle. She’ll read Beowulf, Dante, Chaucer, Shakespeare the following year, when she’s studying medieval and early Renaissance history. When the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries are studied, she starts with Swift (Gulliver’s Travels) and ends with Dickens; finally, she reads modern literature as she is studying modern history.

The sciences are studied in a four-year pattern that roughly corresponds to the periods of scientific discovery: biology, classification and the human body (subjects known to the ancients); earth science and basic astronomy (which flowered during the early Renaissance); chemistry (which came into its own during the early modern period); and then basic physics and computer science (very modern subjects).

This pattern lends coherence to the study of history, science, and literature — subjects that are too often fragmented and confusing. The pattern widens and deepens as the student progresses in maturity and learning. For example, a first grader listens to you read the story of the Iliad from one of the picture book versions available at any public library. Four years later, the fifth grader reads one of the popular middle-grade adaptations — Olivia Coolidge’s The Trojan War, or Roger Lancelyn Greene’s Tales of Troy. Four more years go by, and the ninth grader — faced with the Iliad itself — plunges right in, undaunted.

The classical education is, above all, systematic — in direct contrast to the scattered, unorganized nature of so much secondary education. This systematic, rigorous study has two purposes.

Rigorous study develops virtue in the student. Aristotle defined virtue as the ability to act in accordance to what one knows to be right. The virtuous man (or woman) can force himself to do what he knows to be right, even when it runs against his inclinations. The classical education continually asks a student to work against his baser inclinations (laziness, or the desire to watch another half hour of TV) in order to reach a goal — mastery of a subject.

Systematic study also allows the student to join what Mortimer Adler calls the “Great Conversation” — the ongoing conversation of great minds down through the ages. Much modern education is so eclectic that the student has little opportunity to make connections between past events and the flood of current information. “The beauty of the classical curriculum,” writes classical schoolmaster David Hicks, “is that it dwells on one problem, one author, or one epoch long enough to allow even the youngest student a chance to exercise his mind in a scholarly way: to make connections and to trace developments, lines of reasoning, patterns of action, recurring symbolisms, plots, and motifs.”

[springrain]

I read John Taylor Gatto's Underground History of American Education several years ago. It was the first "wake up" book I think I ever read! although I didn't know it then:D

[verndewd]

wonderful video

[exford]

John Taylor Gatto on Unschooling - Part 1 - YouTube


John Taylor Gatto on Unschooling - Part 2 - YouTube

[armoured_amazon]

Gatto rocks.

[exford]

Seance/Science - the discussion will range, as noted previously, from mythology to the scientific method. If you have listened to Dr. Dean Brown's three part YouTube interview --

Thinking Allowed - Sanskrit Tradition-Part1 - YouTube -- on the Sanskrit traditions, you may not have noticed a subtle allusion to science being the discernment of "this from that" as posited in the Ancient Hindu Vedas. What is meant is that science is one of a number of methods man has devised to distinguish inartificial, objective reality (this) from artificial, subjective unreality (that). The object of a theatrically presented seance is to blur that distinction. As Indo/European linguistic cognates, science and seance are two sides of the same coin.
Where is this leading?

There are three distinctive modes of human cognition:

1] The Mythopoeic Mode (a contraction of mythic and poetic), which is the first development of these modes, uses analogical methods (or, comparisons) in attempting to illuminate phenomena. For example, an earthquake had been said to be caused by the anger of a super-natural god/being like Neptune. Anger and earthquake are compared as signifying tumult in a well plotted, narrative story which, in the final analysis, is a human mental construct -- a fiction -- a fantasy. Here, there is no basis for a rational argument or for the advancement of another possibility in explanation. Therefore, the refinements which are focused upon in this mode are those of poetic or literary style rather than in efforts of uncovering truth.

2] The Philosophic Mode, developed next, dispensed with extraneous entities and motivations. It makes observations of the phenomenon itself through the filter of logic (to methodically detect and eliminate propositional contradictions). Thales of Miletus, the ancient Greek 'Father of Western Philosophy', proposed that an earthquake was the last event in a chain of natural occurrences; that the immediately preceding link was the violent disruption of the surface of the earthly ocean which was itself affected by the agitation of the larger cosmic ocean. This was an erroneous explanation, but it tried to delimit itself to the observable, natural world rather than involving the fantasies of an additional super-natural dimension. The value here is in the consistent manner in which a phenomenon is explained within the natural, knowable realm itself (that which is apparent to our five senses). If an error is present, as it is in the given example, a correction is possible by repeatedly applying the rules of logic as a greater amount of knowledge, gained over time, is focused upon the question of truth.

3] The Scientific Mode, the latest development, uses physical demonstration; that is, controlled experimentation in explaining phenomena. The aim of a controlled experiment is the successful practical demonstration in the execution of a statement of theory. If the full understanding of Nature is not present in that theoretical statement, the designed experiment will not go to completion and the statement will have remained a hypothetical one. If the understanding is sufficient, any number of such experiments will go to completion and all witnesses to the events will have perceived exactly the same actions and relationships in the process of those completed cycles. The proof of a successful scientific demonstration is self-evident, in other words, to all observers; as are the geometric shapes of a circle, a square, and a triangle to all human observers with unimpaired physical senses.

In the authorship of a scientific theory, which has been successfully demonstrated by experiment, the qualifications and quantification necessary for that demonstration will be included in the theoretical statement of explanation. As time has progressed into the more modern era, a sufficient amount of quantifiable data has been discovered about the pertinent conditions for producing the effects of an earthquake. The discovery is that very specific volcanic and/or geological conditions (not hydrodynamic conditions as Thales had assumed) in very specific geographical locations, will produce earthquakes. These may be influenced by the gravitational effects of the Moon, but enough information along those lines has not yet been analyzed. Rather than being a controlled experiment, a natural earthquake possesses all of the quantifiable criteria that has been gathered over time, and can be accurately correlated after the fact. The point to be made here is that both earthquakes and successful experiments are objective events which are perceivable to all witnesses in like fashion. Discoveries of the laws of objective nature and demonstrations of those laws in objective nature are what form the discipline of delineating this-from-that.

Until about 150 years ago, that was the constitution of the concept called Science. Today, without there having been much fanfare in introducing the distinction, there exist Experimental Science and so called Theoretical Science. It appears that 'Theoretical Science' requires neither objective discoveries nor objective demonstrations. The only requirement is of an internally consistent, sufficiently complex and multifaceted literary or mathematical dissertation of a subjective mental construct which remains in force as being true until it can be demonstrated otherwise: that is, be dis-proven. This is contrary to the logical requirements in the 'Argument from Ignorance'. If a proposition cannot be positively demonstrated, the negative holds the field. If something is not, or did not happen - it cannot be proven. How can one distinguish THIS, which is self-evidently proven, from THAT, which is a mental fantasy and, by definition, is outside of the possibility of being proven? Proof is the essence of science . . . or, at the least, it once was !!

Claiming that something is too vast, too minuscule, too complex, or too simple to be observed -- or better yet, that it, in its inanimate form, has the free will to act otherwise when being observed ( the Quantum Uncertainty Principle [and I denigrate the noble word "principle" by using it in this deceptive context] ) -- simply means that the concept should not be placed in the category of science. I suggest it belongs in mythology where the essence of the category is the application of unrestricted human imagination in all of its iterations. When a demonstration of the statement, which is now in the category of mythology, can be devised in which all who observe it perceive the same effects, that statement would be re-categorised as being science.

The concept of Science is a victim of its own prior success. By using the scientific method of thought, numerous natural laws have been discovered with which to foster humanly usable technologies. Science had attained a high level of prestige, elevating it to that level already achieved by religion and philosophy. Science or, more accurately, modern-science has become a marketing tool. If an idea or product is correlated with 'science', it is more likely to be accepted because of the sense of authority associated with science. This is an instance of the logical fallacy of the 'Argument from Authority'. A proposition associated with, or stated by an authority is not a guarantee of accuracy or truth. All important propositions are to be independently substantiated or proven, not blindly accepted.

Mythologies which are being passed off as science today use highly technical sounding 'prestige jargon'. They also claim to use another area of knowledge which has popular prestige - mathematics. More so than languages, mathematics is a highly fluid subject or group of subjects. By becoming familiar with 'number sets', one can see how the logical fallacy of equivocation - using the same term (expression) in the same argument (equation) in two or more differing senses - can be applied. The simple technique of using the 'imaginary number set' without indicating its use; or of originating a mathematical argument in the 'negative number set' and using the various functions to yield positive number answers, can soon yield a so called theory which is internally consistent but completely unintelligible . . . and that is the point of using the fallacy of prestige jargon, to cow the student into self abnegation. Of course this technique is not exclusive to maths and sciences, but is much used in the legal profession, organized religion, standardized education, and more widely in propaganda of all stripes.

By now, it must be evident that I am using various aspects of Aristotelian Logic to make my points. In fact, I am trying to illustrate one aspect in particular. That is, the value of using the proper method of definition of concepts to keep ones individual mental consistency intact. As popular notions of concepts are manipulated by status quo culture-creators into differing meanings, I endeavor to establish my own stable lexicon. Science is the discipline of physical demonstration and exacting explanation in establishing theories. Mythology is the province of free psychic association and imaginative implication in suggesting hypotheses. Each concept, mythology and science, has its appropriate place and, indeed, its appropriate symbiotic relationship to the other, in the life of man.

Having done with generalities, let us delve into specific personalities like Darwin, Einstein, Tesla, Freud, and others.

A variation of one of the classical logical fallacies has come into more common use since the time of Charles Darwin. An alternate expression to Experimental Science and Theoretical Science is Newtonian-Cartesian Science and Relativistic-Quantum Science. The implication being that the newer Theoretical or Rel-Quan variety of science, by virtue of simply being newer, is much superior to the 'old fashioned' variety. This is a temporal version of the Argument from Authority Fallacy.

Charles Darwin was the central figure in the popularization of the Theory of Evolution which ideas dated back to at least the time of the ancient Greek philosopher Anaximander. The notions of Charles' own grandfather, Erasmus; his cousin, Francis Dalton; and others like Herbert Spencer restated, in a so called 'scientific' way, what had last been restated, in a religious way, by John Calvin: that nature favors the few among the many to dominate. Calvin was one of the last Western notables to restate this aristocratic social doctrine (of the ancient Indian Brahmin Caste) when religion held primary prestige. As science gained in sharing this prestige, the aristocratic Darwin family was tapped to develop a 'scientific' proof to conform with this doctrine. This was a clever, obtuse method of equating social power with nature's favor, or what had previously been called God's favor. 'Social' Darwinism appears as a product of this way of thinking. However, Erasmus and Charles seemed to be sincere in their attempts at using the scientific method in developing their story, it must be added.

Notice the chronology and direction in which I claim the statements were made in this case. The doctrine existed first and then the assertion of proof was stated from so called objective observation.

Darwin's statements are presented as facts in a scientifically developed theory. Although highly plausible, to my way of thinking, these statements remain hypothetical (due to inadequate sample numbers), but they are certainly in a more advanced class than mythopoeic Creationism.

There is a technique which is prevalent in the annals of the Deceptive Arts which is used in many fields of thought. That is simply to find a classical story, update it for a contemporary audience by changing the names of the characters and adding detailed fluorishes of the day, and re-telling the tale to achieve the same compelling results among its audience which it has always achieved in the past. All of the Sacred Texts of the world's various religeous traditions share a thread of the same story. In some circles this is called the Golden Thread. Darwin's well known story of observing the details of the diversity of species on the Gallapagos Islands to achieve his ends in his Theory of Evolution, is the retelling of the account of Aristotle's Lagoon. Biology had become the Greek philosopher's favorite study as his investigations into Nature progressed. When visiting the Aegean island of Lesvos with his colleague Theophrastus, he was enthralled by the diverse and unusual flora and fauna. Aristotle concerned himself with the animals while Theophrastus studied the plant life. It was here that Aristotle made his revolutionary beginnings (for that time) of categorizing the study of zoology into the topics of mating habits and reproductive methods; feeding, migration, and hibernation patterns; classification of body parts; and so forth. These accomplishments earned Aristotle the title of the Father of Zoology. The purpose here is to show the use of the same old story to provide legitimacy to a new and similar one. Were the sponsors of Darwin's story using this age-old technique of deception? Apply your own critical thinking to provide an answer.

The particulars of Charles Darwin's purposes and motivations are not as familiar to me as are those of Albert Einstein, to be examined next, but the time of his notoriety coincides with the origins of the religiously oriented Baha'i sect. Because the Baha'i doctrines were newly stated at that time, a static dogma had not yet been established. It is 'dogma' itself which ossifies the vitality of a religious philosophy and movement over time. This is when the mundane bureaucratic organization of a religion takes on the primary life of what had previously been animated by its (usually) lofty ideals. Due to this dynamic, new religious threads must constantly be brought forth to update the current needs of the status quo social power structure.

"

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."
Lucius Anneus Senneca (the younger) (4 BCE-65CE)

( Here are stated the three groups of players in this game of life. It is my aspiration that we all become players - rather, full participants of the second order in the fully conscious, artistic expressions of life.)

Baha'i's lists of ideals include some very worldly prescriptions: universal compulsory education (whose curriculum, and under whose compulsion?); obedience to government and non involvement in partisan politics (become less than a fully functioning, critical, independent human?); elimination of extreme wealth and poverty (the ideal 'hive' mentality - where have we interminably heard this collectivist idea before?); and, the ultimate New Age/Globalist recommendation, the harmony of religion and science. These are all worthy considerations, but not for a centralized, bureaucratically administered, hierarchical religion which would dictate a static culture from its self-created top to the bottom levels, as has been the usual case for the last six thousand years. Rather, these considerations are more appropriately made by large populations of trivium educated individuals who can discern mythopoeic modes of thought from 'scientific method' modes of thought; populations which can generate an imaginatively dynamic, well understood culture throughout their constituencies (that is, no 'top' or 'bottom'). Hierarchical religion has had its day. The Baha'i faith is the one certified by the United Nations. The United Nations is an attempt at a global example of hierarchical political administration, which would supercede its religious arm. If the trivium meme is able to reasserts itself among earth's inhabitants, my hopes are that these elitist methods of political organization, centralized planning, and forceful impositions (of same) will have seen their last days also.

If major populations (often called the "mob" by the status quo) can be kept living in states of illusion, without benefit of the trivium as a tool to discover objective truth, a very minor population can dictate the terms of perceived reality. Albert Einstein was a bright character who was propagandized to a place of prominence for imagining a 'new' so called science to reinforce this false perception of reality. After all, if a highly prestigious field of study such as Science says it is so, it must be - no matter how ridiculous the assertions.

Albert Einstein was a young child when he first learned that light waves traveled at a particular speed away from their source. While viewing his bed-side clock at that young age, he supposed that if he could propel himself at the same speed as one of those light waves being reflected from the clock face, the hour and minute hands would have no apparent movement as long as he as was riding that same wave. The 'apparent' time would not move forward. If he slowed down only slightly, relative to the speed of light, other reflected light waves would slip by him and the clock hands would 'apparently' begin to move ever so slowly; and as he came to a complete stop, relative to the light waves, the clock hands would move at their 'normal' speed. From this boyhood imagining was projected the Special Theory of Relativity: that time itself is variable and related to the speed of light waves. Now, there is a great difference between the objective passage of time and the 'apparent' and variable passage of time on a clock face in a figment of imagination!

Max Mueller was a 19th century German philologist and Indologist. He translated a number of the last portions of the ancient Hindu Vedas - the Upanishads - into German. Two of these Upanishads, the 6th and 8th of the Brihadaranyaka, mention the female philosopher named Gargi asking her guru, the sage Yajnavalkya, "What is the fabric of reality, Oh Yajnavalkya: what is its warp and what is its weft ?". As a young adult, Einstein read this particular passage, which was still available only in the German translation, and concocted what was to become the famous General Theory of Relativity. That is, space is the warp and time is the weft which weave the fabric of space/time (?!!). In other words, space and time are the same and, additionally, they (it-?) can be warped to produce the effects of gravity. -- No . . . space is extension, time is duration, and the causes of the effects of gravity are still unknown. The bigger and more outlandish the myth (lie), the more easily accepted by the uncritical mind.

Meliva Maric was Einstein's fellow math and physics student at Zurich Polytechnic. She was one of the first women in Europe to study those subjects at the university level, and is the person who is said to have derived the equation E=MC-squared from a previously published paper by the physicist Henri Poincare'. This means that if a mass (M) is accelerated to the speed-of-light (C) at the speed-of-light (C-squared), energy (E) will be released. This is nothing more than a specialized elaboration of Isaac Newton's formulation that the simple acceleration (A) of mass (M) will produce the push or pull of a force (F): F=MA. Einstein, whose ethics had been questioned by acquaintances (for whatever that is worth), made Meliva Maric his first wife and then imposed several unreasonable restrictions on their marital and post-marital relationships . . . one of which was the condition of her silence on pain of losing her income from a trust fund (of Nobel Prize winnings) administered by her ex-husband after their divorce. Was this silence in regards to her derivation of the well known physics equation? Again, make of this what you will.

Another supposition I make is that Einstein, while working as a Swiss patent office clerk, was rewarded with fame and renown for intercepting (read - stealing) a patent application which outlined the engineering problems and solutions in starting a chain reaction of atom splitting within a heavy element like plutonium. This fission reaction would yield comparatively immense amounts of energy from a small mass of matter. And that is exactly the type of problem a heavy-element fission reaction entailed at that time, an engineering problem, not a fundamental physics problem. The aforementioned Henri Poincare', and others (Lorentz & Maxwell), were already aware of the energy yield of a fission chain reaction. They knew that splitting the nuclei of heavy-element atoms was the cause of energy release, not the acceleration of the atom's mass to light speed. In the language of philosophy, the acceleration of mass to light speed was a 'necessary' but not 'sufficient' condition for the release of nuclear energy. This condition applies to explosive devises as well as the controlled nuclear energy produced in an atomic fission reactor. Both reactions, explosive and controlled, yield the same amount of energy from the same mass with the only pertinent variable being the amount of elapsed time in obtaining that yield. The vast Manhatten Project was needed to co-ordinate the engineering work in making atomic fission a reality, not what is called Albert Einstein's equation. Einstein was also allowed to publish his charming mythology of Relativity - which has no logical basis or reliable, self-evident demonstration of theory - for consumption by the uncritical public.

A news reporter once asked Einstein if he could explain the reason for his success, His answer, "Keep ones' sources secret".

The comments made about Einstein do not have direct relations to proof. Rather, they illustrate a pattern which is consistent with deceipt. Einstein was known more for being a character, a personality who expounded on social issues rather than on truly scientific matters. He was an excellent teller of science related speculative stories, however. As I and most of us are not interested in building dooms-day bombs or nuclear electrical power plants - which power could easily be provided by Hemp (along with myriads of other useful products) - we can, as disinterested individuals, spend our time and efforts in more relavent pursuits by simply dismissing the implications of the tale related above.

Contrast the convoluted yarn just woven (pun intended) of a theoretical-physicist dealing in an artificial and highly restricted area of human endeavor (applied atomics), with the straight forward story of accomplishments by experimental-scientists like Thomas Edison and Nicola Tesla. Through his efforts at understanding the natural world, Edison provided the incandescent electric light bulb and the phonograph for recording sounds - period. These devices and their workings are self-evident to us all. Ditto for Tesla's work in providing alternating electrical current generation which can travel on a wire for several hundreds of miles. Tesla's inventions might also include the fluorescent and neon light tubes, wireless radio (co-opted by Marconni), what is called Zero Point or free electrical energy and HAARP resonance technology. A great deal of Tesla's work was patented, but many records are now non existent, and has been kept from public eyes. Like Einstein, both Edison and Tesla led complex personal lives, but much of their genuine science is there to see and to be understood.

Quantum mechanics, concerned with the very small, is also riddled with mythological assertions based on probability. Probability is a first cousin to hypothesis; an 'attempt' at an answer. With an elementary knowledge of the trivium, the fallacies in this field, like those in Relativity, can also be enumerated.

Phillip, as you had first indicated the direction to me, both Marco Rodin ( Vortex Based Math ) and the popular pseudo-physicist Nassim Harramein ( Resonance Project Foundation ) base themselves at a facility in Hawaii (a state with a large Baha'i presence) with ties to the Bah'i' organization. My subsequent research has confirmed this fact. Their so called 'work' is based on modern Theoretical Science, in the traditions of Einstein. Harramein goes so far as to make comparisons between himself and Einstein (and I think those are valid comparisons !). Both Harramein and Rodin have many videos available on the internet. Observe the theatrical style inherent in the 'scientific' presentations of both personalities in front of groups of attendees at seminars. Also notice the overall character of the seminar attendees; they are not techically oriented, but enthusiastic audiences consisting of laymen. The most apparent of the telling observations as to their fraudulent enterprise is that, rather than applying for Foundational or governmental financial grants which are available for basic research, they both promote charitable contributions to apply toward their goals, whatever they may be. These men are engaging, practiced, thespian shills for their Baha'i sponsors. To close the circle (aside from a reminder of the origins of the Baha'i scientistic religion in the time of Darwin), is the observation that Rodin's and Haramein's almost interminable seminars are seances, not science.

Details of Freud, et al, are forthcoming.

[senmcglinn]

...... The Baha'i faith is the one certified by the United Nations. ...
Details of Freud, et al, are forthcoming.

I used the search tool on "certified by the United Nations" and found Exford had posted this information 15 times now. How many times can one repost rubbish before it becomes spam?

Naturally the United Nations does not endorse any religion, let alone a tiny one like the Bahai Faith. If it endorsed one religion, the others would be up in arms. If it endorsed Hinduism, Pakistan would object. So the United Nations is strictly neutral on the whole religion thing.

I did ask Exford a few times to produce evidence for his claim. But evidence is not really Exford's thing. He's more a copy and copy and copy kind of fellow

[exford]

I used the search tool on "certified by the United Nations" and found Exford had posted this information 15 times now. How many times can one repost rubbish before it becomes spam?

Naturally the United Nations does not endorse any religion, let alone a tiny one like the Bahai Faith. If it endorsed one religion, the others would be up in arms. If it endorsed Hinduism, Pakistan would object. So the United Nations is strictly neutral on the whole religion thing.

I did ask Exford a few times to produce evidence for his claim. But evidence is not really Exford's thing. He's more a copy and copy and copy kind of fellow

Welcome back Sen!

Back to defend your religion with you logically fallacious arguments. Anoyone who is interested can go back over your previous posts in question(wouldn't be dfficult as they are the only posts you have made) and see for themselves what I posted...I'm sure they'll make up their own mind!

You never did reply to my last post regarding your comments on Marko Rodin(baha'i)....care to?

Ps
I post that text often as I understand it contains many tenents of truth for anyone who can read it with an open critical mind.
The fact that you oppose it so strongly says more about yourself and your beliefs than it does about the text.

[senmcglinn]

Welcome back Sen!

Back to defend your religion with you logically fallacious arguments. Anoyone who is interested can go back over your previous posts in question(wouldn't be dfficult as they are the only posts you have made) and see for themselves what I posted...I'm sure they'll make up their own mind!

You never did reply to my last post regarding your comments on Marko Rodin(baha'i)....care to?

Ps
I post that text often as I understand it contains many tenents of truth for anyone who can read it with an open critical mind.
The fact that you oppose it so strongly says more about yourself and your beliefs than it does about the text.

It's not about my religion -- you are repeating a statement about the United Nations which is both obviously absurd, to anyone who knows something about the world, and not backed by any evidence. If the UN did certify the Bahai Faith, that certification would not have any effect unless it was public, right? So where's the evidence? AH! I see. It is on an INVISIBLE certificate that only Exford can see.

I won't follow up on Marko Rodin. I listened to a few minutes of his pseudo-science and decided it was not worth the time required to find the supposed mention of Bahai somewhere in there.

[exford]

It's not about my religion -- you are repeating a statement about the United Nations which is both obviously absurd, to anyone who knows something about the world, and not backed by any evidence. If the UN did certify the Bahai Faith, that certification would not have any effect unless it was public, right? So where's the evidence? AH! I see. It is on an INVISIBLE certificate that only Exford can see.

I won't follow up on Marko Rodin. I listened to a few minutes of his pseudo-science and decided it was not worth the time required to find the supposed mention of Bahai somewhere in there.

Perhaps you would like Marko to issue a certificate too:rolleyes:

[heuer]

What gets taught at schools/universities/colleges is a complete waste of time.

I agree to a certain extent school is required to teach basic skills, such as reading/writing/maths. But I believe every single bit of important knowledge an individual may gain in this world can only be done independently.

It's important for people to question the world and think for themselves.

From youth kids are taught to listen. Listen to your teacher, your parents, your lecturer, your boss. They are wiser than you.

Anything but the truth. But it has a major effect. People can't operate as individuals, they operate as robots.

What an educated (not a piece of paper holding person, he/she isn't educated) person does is look at information and create his own opinion regarding that material. He/she comes up with own theories and perspectives.

The person operates as a human being. With individual thinking and operation that isn't influenced by the majority.

Once you establish yourself as a free-thinking person, away from influence and being a sheep you will progress in this world. In business, in knowledge, in all aspects of society.

Institutionalised forms of education exist for one reason and one reason only - employment. To teach you how to do the paperwork and operate the machines. To some extent, they are needed in society. But too many people correlate university and success at school to being intelligent - anything but the truth. It just means you're qualified to work in a specific field.

[exford]

Once you establish yourself as a free-thinking person, away from influence and being a sheep you will progress in this world. In business, in knowledge, in all aspects of society.

.

Good post heuer!

The 7 liberal arts teach the student to live a life of sprirtual and material abundance,how to think and not what to think.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129047

[exford]

Mental Anti-Virus!

For your own sake!! please listen!!


How to defeat the NWO!

Going into the world without the knowledge of the information contained in this podcast,is like going onto the net using a computer without any firewalls!

You leave your mind wide open to all sorts of propaganda/manipulation/control techniques and fallacious rhetoric. By understanding the operating system used against us by the elites,we can use the same system to set ourselves free!

Forget hacking away at the leaves and branches of the problem ie. banking and political systems, we need to attack the roots!!

http://peacerevolution.podomatic.com/

[exford]

Great entertaining and very informative video.

Enjoy :)

bgaede's Channel - YouTube

[saamjaam]

http://people.virginia.edu/~dr3f/the_object_of_liberal_training.jpg

[exford]

Nice find :)

[exford]

George Carlin - Dealing with BS Part 1 - YouTube

[kahn2010]

I agree that logic, rhetoric, initiative and independent thinking are important, but to say they are nearly non existant today is gerneralisation to the extreme.

I'm 18, in my 2nd year of sixth form, and nearly everyone i know can think deeply/critically etc if they need to.

and also these skills are enhanced in Uni as its ALL independent study.

[lizzyking]

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.”- Frank Zappa

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[lizzyking]

"Public Higher Education Is 'Eroding From All Sides,' Warn Political Scientists

http://chronicle.com/article/Public-Higher-Education-Is/124292/




What Trachtenberg understood was that perception is reality in higher education -- and perception can be bought. “You can get a Timex or a Casio for $65 or you can get a Rolex or a Patek Philippe for $10,000. It’s the same thing.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/148031/higher_ed._racket%3A_how_kids_are_paying_a_fortune _for_rip-off_%27prestige%27_educations/



Are You Experienced? Jimi Hendrix - YouTube

[disavowed]

Great Thread and embedded videos!

[exford]

I agree that logic, rhetoric, initiative and independent thinking are important, but to say they are nearly non existant today is gerneralisation to the extreme.

I'm 18, in my 2nd year of sixth form, and nearly everyone i know can think deeply/critically etc if they need to.

and also these skills are enhanced in Uni as its ALL independent study.

"If they need to"; How do they think, when they don't don't need to?