Question about MMR Vaccines in the UK

[adzboarder]

Hi All,

Just a quick challenge for you all, can anyone tell me what I should do about my Son's MMR vaccinations that are due soon. The government and the doctors and health people I have spoken to on this issue are overwhelmingly supporting the MMR jab for children. When I look it up, all I can find is stuff on America's vaccinations. Is it the same horror story here in England with mercury, autism on the rise and all the rest of it? What will my Son miss out on and what are the true risks if he doesn't have the jab?

My gut instinct is that he shouldn't have it.

What do you all say, should he have the MMR jab? If not, please provide links and explain why.

Many thanks all, I am sure you will help me get the true information I need.

[smashstuff]

"Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible." (Emphasis added)
-- Bertrand Russell, "The Impact of Science on Society", 1953, pg 49-50



Vaccines are one of the most evil inventions on the planet. THEY ARE NOT THERE TO HELP US! Autism was pretty much UNHEARD OF before the smallpox vaccine. Coincidence, Schmoincidence.

Just stay WELL away, please. Measles, Mumps and Rubella are hardly life threatening diseases anyway, I caught all 3 when I was a child, They're not a big deal if you're healthy. You do not want aborted baby tissue in your child or any other shite.

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/mmr28.html

MMR
Measles Mumps Rubella Live Virus Vaccine
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using sorbitol, neomycin, hydrolyzed gelatin
mediums: M&M - chick embryo
Rubella - human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Mercury, Autism, and the Global Vaccine Agenda:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6890106663412840646&q=Mercury%2C+Autism

Who is telling the truth about MMR jabs and Autism?(Daily Mail article):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=467323&in_page_id=1774

[revolutionary_jam]

please don't get your kid vaccinated >.< it's poison

[adzboarder]

Thanks for that Smash.

I am going to insist to my wife that we do not have him vaccinated. I think I am doing the right thing, but theres a lot of heartache and conflict about this issue but I have got to stand by what I believe in.

I don't believe in vaccination nor the medical establishment as a whole.

Funny that when you look at Merck's website the first thing you see is the share price. Sick fucks...

[revolutionary_jam]

http://www.rense.com/general59/vvac.htm

yes I think especially women who bear the child are generally very afraid of not vaccinating because they feel like they might be doing teh wrong thing and "being a bad mother" under the social pressure, here are some vids:

Vaccinations, The Hidden Truth:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8610554679207090010
Whats in the Vaccine:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2163175142473074044&sourceid=zeitgeist
Mercurys Affect on the Brain:
How Mercury Kills the Brain ~ Autism - YouTube

[weirdwolf71]

DO NOT VACCINATE - NO JABS WHATSOEVER!

To put it bluntly! My 4 year old is autistic, not severely thankfully.
It was tough looking back at old video when he had turned 1, pre-jabs, he was doing stuff then that he can't do now without a LOT of effort and time.

Unfortunately, I had not woken fully by that time, he he got the full compliment of jabs. However, we recently had a couple of calls asking if he'd had his MMR Booster.....guess what we said!

Honestly, you need to research and convince yourselves yes or no, but if I were you, RUN AWAY!

You will get 'pressure' from 'caring' doctors and other mothers to do it, but its voluntary so up to you.

Good Luck!:)

[smashstuff]

DO NOT VACCINATE - NO JABS WHATSOEVER!

To put it bluntly! My 4 year old is autistic, not severely thankfully.
It was tough looking back at old video when he had turned 1, pre-jabs, he was doing stuff then that he can't do now without a LOT of effort and time.

Unfortunately, I had not woken fully by that time, he he got the full compliment of jabs. However, we recently had a couple of calls asking if he'd had his MMR Booster.....guess what we said!

Honestly, you need to research and convince yourselves yes or no, but if I were you, RUN AWAY!

You will get 'pressure' from 'caring' doctors and other mothers to do it, but its voluntary so up to you.

Good Luck!:)

Have you looked into any homeopathic methods to remove these vaccines? I've heard a couple of success stories with this method.

http://www.homeopathysnc.org/homeopathy_and_autism.htm

[ramesees]

When I was a child, I got all my boosters and MMR jabs etc. as thats the kind of mother I had (always doing what she felt was best for us, never really questioning anything, so she didnt know better).

However, I and lots of other kids my age, countless hundreds of thousands havent been affected in the way some of the above posts are describing. Is this only a recent thing (ie in the last 10-15 years), or are some batches of vaccine deliberatly tainted so as to prevent widespread outcry and people finding patterns?

I only ask because if all of the batches were poison / are tainted, then surely lots and lots of kids would be coming down with autism / mercury poisioning etc.. By the way I'm 26, not someone in their 40s-50s

[spacegurl]

Adzaboarder, think carefully. This is your child's health you need to worry about. If you don't give your baby any vaccines at all then be aware(beware) that your son will be open to whooping cough and other fatal illnesses. Now that immigration is on the increase and they've kindly brought old diseases and childhood ailments back into the fold, you have to decide what to do. Listen to your instincts, the doctors, or listen to a few paranoid individuals who live in cloud cuckoo land.

[cheesedanish]

I know David Icke mentions in his Dvd - 'Freedom or Fascism - a time to choose' - that his son has also never had any injections and he is fine
and healthy. Its the jabbed kids who must stay away!

I know at birth it's kinda compulsory in the hospital but apparently there
is no law saying you Have to have immunizations.

If they start asking questions just say
1) no on 'religious grounds' its against your beliefs or
2) forge the documents?

[cheesedanish]

Adzaboarder, think carefully. This is your child's health you need to worry about. If you don't give your baby any vaccines at all then be aware(beware) that your son will be open to whooping cough and other fatal illnesses. Now that immigration is on the increase and they've kindly brought old diseases and childhood ailments back into the fold, you have to decide what to do. Listen to your instincts, the doctors, or listen to a few paranoid individuals who live in cloud cuckoo land.

This is exactly the fearmongering they use to make you vaccinate....

[adzboarder]

I hear you cheesedanish and others, thanks.

Well Jab-day was today and he hasn't been for them. I wont be rescheduling this either.

As far as I can see the illnesses and ailments that this supposedley protects against can be easily treated nowadays so I will watch over my son as always and seek medical help if and when he needs it.

My son is probably going to be the odd one out when they do all these vaccinations in school and my arguement will always be the same, if you want to go ahead and inject unecessary crap in your child then go right ahead. We're not doing it.

A phrase I use quite often is "Keep close who matters most" and in this case I feel this is very apt. I am 100% confident that I have done the right thing.

Thanks to all for links and vids I will look at them all later tonight to re-affirm what I already knew.

Love to all.

[smashstuff]

Adzaboarder, think carefully. This is your child's health you need to worry about. If you don't give your baby any vaccines at all then be aware(beware) that your son will be open to whooping cough and other fatal illnesses. Now that immigration is on the increase and they've kindly brought old diseases and childhood ailments back into the fold, you have to decide what to do. Listen to your instincts, the doctors, or listen to a few paranoid individuals who live in cloud cuckoo land.

You are on the same forum as us 'paranoid individuals'. I am not paranoid, I just see what the agenda of vaccinations is all about. You need to wake up if you believe any crap from mainstream doctors who know very, very little about true health, and even less about vaccines. I had whooping cough as a kid as well, I didn't die. There are herbal remedies to help with any childhood disease. A child who hasn't been vaccinated will have a stronger immune system anyway, so will be able to fight off any disease with ease. Your fear-mongering is ridiculous.

[spacegurl]

You are on the same forum as us 'paranoid individuals'. I am not paranoid, I just see what the agenda of vaccinations is all about. You need to wake up if you believe any crap from mainstream doctors who know very, very little about true health, and even less about vaccines. I had whooping cough as a kid as well, I didn't die. There are herbal remedies to help with any childhood disease. A child who hasn't been vaccinated will have a stronger immune system anyway, so will be able to fight off any disease with ease. Your fear-mongering is ridiculous.

LOL How do you know I was referring to you on this forum anyway? I never mentioned anyone on this board. You and Cheesedanish automatically identitifed with "paranoid individuals who live in cloud cuckoo land". Strange.
You don't know what my views are on this subject as I didn't really mention them. You just jumped to the idea that I trust doctors. My post was to adzbaorder, nobody else. I never actually said he must'nt give his son MMR jabs but told him to think carefully about his decision and so far he's chosen alternative meds. Your feelings about this subject don't interest me so why bother argueing about it.

[smashstuff]

There are no 'alternative' meds to vaccines. Vaccines are not medicine, they are poison. Who did you mean by paranoid individuals who live in cloud cuckoo land?

'Listen to your instincts, the doctors,'

Sorry if I jumped to the conclusion that you trust doctors.

[spacegurl]

There are no 'alternative' meds to vaccines. Vaccines are not medicine, they are poison. Who did you mean by paranoid individuals who live in cloud cuckoo land?

'Listen to your instincts, the doctors,'

Sorry if I jumped to the conclusion that you trust doctors.

The biggest problem will be if most parents trust their instincts by not giving their kids vaccines as it will put other children in danger of catching diseases. There is no scientific evidence that MMR causes autism. In fact there's more evidence that MMR doesn't cause autism. People are afraid of MMR because they believe the myths and rumours which have no proof and no scientific evidence. You can either be rational about this or trust you instincts/emotions.

[gaias child]

Hi there

My son went into a coma after his MMR booster,and later was dx with autism, and has severe learning difficulties.

From what I understand some children are very vulnerable and this concoction of poison can tip a compromised immune sytem over the edge. I don't believe they are healthy for anyone and disastrous for a few.

Proceed with vaccines with caution

I had measle smumps etc as a child and people have forgotten they were relatively minor diseases with a very small risk attached, but the scaremongering has become that these illnesses are life threatening, it was very rare that anyone died of measles, very ocasionally it does happen, but usually when a person has an already compromised immune system, and boy do they use that to maximum scaremongering effect.

I think the risks are far less than having the MMR, oh yes and lets not forget this is about profits for pharmaceuticals, there is no interest in proving the harm done to thousands of children as compensation would be huge. The whole thing sucks

[spacegurl]

Hi there

My son went into a coma after his MMR booster,and later was dx with autism, and has severe learning difficulties.

From what I understand some children are very vulnerable and this concoction of poison can tip a compromised immune sytem over the edge. I don't believe they are healthy for anyone and disastrous for a few.

Proceed with vaccines with caution

I had measle smumps etc as a child and people have forgotten they were relatively minor diseases with a very small risk attached, but the scaremongering has become that these illnesses are life threatening, it was very rare that anyone died of measles, very ocasionally it does happen, but usually when a person has an already compromised immune system, and boy do they use that to maximum scaremongering effect.

I think the risks are far less than having the MMR, oh yes and lets not forget this is about profits for pharmaceuticals, there is no interest in proving the harm done to thousands of children as compensation would be huge. The whole thing sucks

No Gaias Child. Many children have died of measles.

Sorry to hear about your son. I would like to ask how do you know that the MMR caused this? Since a lot of parents don't want their kids having MMR diseases like measles have gone up.

If parents don't give any vaccines to their children then they're going to put a lot of children's lives at risk. Many children lost their lives in times past due to various diseases that can now be prevented. The stuff about childhood vaccines especially MMR and pharmaceuticals is part of the urban myth to frighten parents into not giving their kids protection. It comes from Andrew Wakefield who started to spread the link between autism and MMR.

An investigation of misconduct by Wakefield was initiated by Britain's General Medical Council after The Lancet publicly rejected his findings about an MMR/autism link. Wakefield failed to reveal that he had received £55,000 in legal aid to carry out separate research for parents who claimed their children had been harmed by the MMR vaccine

We now know that Wakefield was paid more than £400,000 by lawyers trying to prove that the vaccine was unsafe. The payments were part of £3.4m distributed from the legal aid fund to doctors and scientists who had been recruited to support a now failed lawsuit against vaccine manufacturers

Have a look at this:

Source (http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm)

[spacegurl]

I hear you cheesedanish and others, thanks.

Well Jab-day was today and he hasn't been for them. I wont be rescheduling this either.

As far as I can see the illnesses and ailments that this supposedley protects against can be easily treated nowadays so I will watch over my son as always and seek medical help if and when he needs it.

My son is probably going to be the odd one out when they do all these vaccinations in school and my arguement will always be the same, if you want to go ahead and inject unecessary crap in your child then go right ahead. We're not doing it.

A phrase I use quite often is "Keep close who matters most" and in this case I feel this is very apt. I am 100% confident that I have done the right thing.

Thanks to all for links and vids I will look at them all later tonight to re-affirm what I already knew.

Love to all.

Can I just add something here. Do you realise you're putting other smaller children and babies in complete danger? By not giving your son MMR vaccine he will become a carrier of diseases like measles and rubella. If he gets this, which is likely now that you've decided not to give him the jab, he'll pass this onto children who are too young to get the MMR immunity or who haven't taken it. You've made your son a biohazard and he ought to have a health warning so that parents can keep their vulnerable children away from him. What medicine will "easily treat" those diseases? These vaccines that you call "crap" bloody work! Kids do not have those illnesses anymore because of them and also they're not putting others at risk. What is your evidence that MMR is going to cause autism? Did you know there isn't any evidence to support that rumour? it's just paranoid rubbish from superstitious ordinary folk who haven't got a clue about medicine or science! Perhaps if your son catches these diseases he may survive but the next child or baby who'll pick it up from him might not survive!!!

[spacegurl]

This is exactly the fearmongering they use to make you vaccinate....

Yeah right :rolleyes: It's actually fear that makes people avoid vaccinations.

[adzboarder]

Can I just add something here. Do you realise you're putting other smaller children and babies in complete danger? By not giving your son MMR vaccine he will become a carrier of diseases like measles and rubella. If he gets this, which is likely now that you've decided not to give him the jab, he'll pass this onto children who are too young to get the MMR immunity or who haven't taken it. You've made your son a biohazard and he ought to have a health warning so that parents can keep their vulnerable children away from him. What medicine will "easily treat" those diseases? These vaccines that you call "crap" bloody work! Kids do not have those illnesses anymore because of them and also they're not putting others at risk. What is your evidence that MMR is going to cause autism? Did you know there isn't any evidence to support that rumour? it's just paranoid rubbish from superstitious ordinary folk who haven't got a clue about medicine or science! Perhaps if your son catches these diseases he may survive but the next child or baby who'll pick it up from him might not survive!!!

Maybe you should come with a health warning spouting crap like this. If you like the MMR jab so much you have it, don't let me stop you. Do you have children SpaceGurl? Have you given them any mercury lately?

A spilt bottle of mercury in a hospital causes an evacuation of the hospital as it's classed as hazardous material. If you can show me just cause for putting hazardous materials in the body of a vulnerable small child, who cant make his own choice then I am all ears.

Additionally, the MMR dose is 87% over the recommended daily allowance (RDA) of mercury that people get from eating certain fish - how the hell can that be good for a small undeveloped child?

The kids who have had this jab are not at risk from those that haven't, that's complete nonsense. With your mentality, if you trust the New World Order Scientific establishment so much surely they can protect the children from those who haven't had the jab by giving them another jab and pump yet more shit into their system. I expect your kids will be getting the microchip too as soon as they become available and I wish you good luck with that too.

[spacegurl]

Maybe you should come with a health warning spouting crap like this. If you like the MMR jab so much you have it, don't let me stop you. Do you have children SpaceGurl? Have you given them any mercury lately?

How is it crap? Do you have anything to back it up? It's not a case of "liking MMR" but you didn' understand my post at all. I do have children and I'm right to be concerned that some kid out there will have measles or rubella and infect my children who haven't had many injections. It's all because of parents like you.

A spilt bottle of mercury in a hospital causes an evacuation of the hospital as it's classed as hazardous material. If you can show me just cause for putting hazardous materials in the body of a vulnerable small child, who cant make his own choice then I am all ears.

Do you realise that all the children given injections to avoid childhood diseases STOPS diseases? If more people copied your example then more and more children and babies will die as diseases are spread. Where exactly did you get your info from?

Additionally, the MMR dose is 87% over the recommended daily allowance (RDA) of mercury that people get from eating certain fish - how the hell can that be good for a small undeveloped child?

Who are you quoting from?

The kids who have had this jab are not at risk from those that haven't, that's complete nonsense.

How do you know? who told you?

With your mentality, if you trust the New World Order Scientific establishment so much surely they can protect the children from those who haven't had the jab by giving them another jab and pump yet more shit into their system. I expect your kids will be getting the microchip too as soon as they become available and I wish you good luck with that too.

My "mentality" - are you a qualified therapist or psychologist? Do you have a doctorate? have you studied the mind? If not then you're in no position to judge someone's "mentality". You are the one whose behaviour is mental going by your emotional outburst. "Trusting the NWO scientific establishment!" LOL where did you get that piece from, David Icke books perhaps? So you're quite happy for your son to infect other kids then? You haven't got a clue about science or medicine and have taken advice from unqualified people. That is utter madness. You can believe what you like. However I'm very annoyed that you're dismissing these diseases as if they're like colds. They KILL and they're contagious. You really don't care about that.

Oh and you didn't bother to answer this question: What medicines will easily treat those diseases?

[spacegurl]

For your information Adzboarder, a small amount of mercury is in our food such as fish. Childhood vaccines with mercury have been around since the 1930's and 40's. The minute levels of mercury only destroys the virus and disease cells. Mercury is thimerosal and a tiny amount is medicinal. Petroleum oil can create gasoline on one hand but is medicine on another. Same with many substances that are dangerous in large quantities can have medicinal qualities in smaller doses. Same with alcohol and even radiation. Childhood vaccines has saved many children's lives since this was introduced. The idea that vaccines cause autism in a child is an unproved rumour caused by the likes of Dr Andrew Wakefield who was given millions in a fund to prove that MMR causes autism. He couldn't find the link between autism and MMR although the rumour is still there.

Mercury is a naturally occurring mineral that can be found throughout the environment. Mercury forms can be found as the elemental metal or in a wide variety of organic and inorganic compounds. There is a constant biogeochemical cycle of mercury. This cycle includes: release of elemental mercury as a gas from the rocks and waters (degassing); long-range transport of the gases in the atmosphere; wet and dry deposition upon land and surface water; absorption onto sediment particles; bioaccumulation in terrestrial and aquatic food chains

Study finds no link with MMR and Autism in children (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/347/19/1477)

By the way what did your son's mother eat while she was pregnant? did she have any injections? did she swallow any tablets? Also do you give your son regular shampoo and bath foam? have you ever dyed your hair, washed it in normal shampoo? do you wear aftershave? have you painted your house/rooms? do you drive a car? do you have your son sitting in the backseat? have you got carpet? have you done any DIY recently? what foods do you give your son? I bet you can agree on atleast one of the above. Those lifestyle things contain lead and other ingredients more harmful than the tiny alchemical compound of mercury in vaccines.

[adzboarder]

http://ub.meduniwien.ac.at/content/bilder/allg/nejm.jpg

Nice symbology on your precious NEJM there. What have we got, well a serpent for starters wrapped around what appears to be a club - oh and a maltese cross - you want to believe what these guys say then feel free.

Have you looked into Illuminati Symbology at all?

By the way you still haven't explained how your nicely vaccinated robot-kids are going to get Mumps, measles or Rubella from my "Bio-Hazard" son - I thought the MMR jab was going to keep you all safe and cosy so what does it matter to you that I opt out - HOW can they get these oh so terrible diseases as you have so kindly vaccinated them?

Did you read up or see anything about the vaccinations given to children in Africa? That's right they had the HIV virus in the vaccines! Oh goodie. Would you give them to your children?

I don't think we are going to come to any common ground here Spacegurl, but I do take on board your side of the argument.

[spacegurl]

http://ub.meduniwien.ac.at/content/bilder/allg/nejm.jpg

Nice symbology on your precious NEJM there. What have we got, well a serpent for starters wrapped around what appears to be a club - oh and a maltese cross - you want to believe what these guys say then feel free.

Have you looked into Illuminati Symbology at all?

By the way you still haven't explained how your nicely vaccinated robot-kids are going to get Mumps, measles or Rubella from my "Bio-Hazard" son - I thought the MMR jab was going to keep you all safe and cosy so what does it matter to you that I opt out - HOW can they get these oh so terrible diseases as you have so kindly vaccinated them?

Did you read up or see anything about the vaccinations given to children in Africa? That's right they had the HIV virus in the vaccines! Oh goodie. Would you give them to your children?

I don't think we are going to come to any common ground here Spacegurl, but I do take on board your side of the argument.

You want ME to answer your latest questions when you still haven't answered any of mine. Very telling. You haven't answered them because you don't know. As you can't answer them you're using a tactic that many people do that have lost an arguement: by changing the subject. You're seeing serpents and reptiles now after I gave you info and sources. We're not even talking about reptiles but MMR and the safety of children. You're just completely influenced by what David Icke says, as you're copying what he does and can't think for yourself. If you already made your mind up about not giving your kid MMR why did you post on here asking for advice?

You really hated me saying you've made your kid a "biohazard" - it really upset you. Well that is what he is now. Thanks to you. You've said nothing at all about the safety of my children or about the rumours started by a doctor who couldn't find proof of what he said. Instead you're going on about AIDS in Africa and serpent logos! Please keep on subject!

I will ask you again:

1. You said there are other medicines to "easily treat" childhood diseases like measles and rubella. What are they?
2. What is your evidence that MMR will cause autism?
3. Where did you get your info from regarding MMR and AIDS, ect?
4. Are you qualified in psychology or therapy?
5. Where are you quoting this:
Additionally, the MMR dose is 87% over the recommended daily allowance (RDA) of mercury that people get from eating certain fish
6. Who said that info in my post makes it "crap"?
7. What food/meds did your son's mother have while pregnant?
8. Does your son use shampoo or bath foam and soap?
9. Have you dyed your hair?
10. Do you drive a car?
11. Have you painted house/used DIY?
12. Have you got carpet?
13. What food do you give your son?
14. How do you know that vaccines are more dangerous when they've saved kids lives?
15. What do you plan to do when your son catches these viruses?
16. Have you got a mobile phone?
17. what soft drinks does your son have?
18. What do you think of animals with diseases? what should happen to them?

[smashstuff]

Vaccinations suggest that babies are born wrong, and they catch diseases because they haven't had the disease injected into them.

Just as mainstream medicine suggests that people have cancer because they haven't had chemotherapy, women get old because they haven't had HRT, You have tonsilitis because we haven't cut out your tonsils, you have gallstones becuase we haven't cut out your gallbladder, you have high cholestorol because you're not taking cholestorol lowering drugs, you're depressed because you're not taking Prozac, you can't get it up because you haven't taken Viagra.

1867 Vaccination Act of 1867 in England begins to elicit protest from the populations and increase in the number of anti-vaccination groups. It compelled the vaccination of a baby within the first 90 days of its life. Those who objected would be continually badgered by magistyrates and fined until the child turned 14. The law was passed on the assurance of medical officials that smallpox vaccinations were safe.

1870 Third major smallpox epidemic in England begins and lasts until 1872. over 44,800 dies.

1871 In Birmingham, England, from 1871 to 1874, there were 7,706 cases of smallpox. Out of these, 6,795 had been vaccinated.

1871 In Bavaria, Germany, vaccination is compulsory and revaccination is commonplace. Out of 30,472 cases of smallpox, 29,429 had been vaccinated.

1871 Worldwide epidemic of smallpox begins. Claims 8 million people worldwide.

1871 Select committee of the Privy Council convened to inquire into the Vaccination Act of 1867 (England) as 97.5% of the people who died from smallpox were vaccinated for it.

1872 Japan institutes compulsory smallpox vaccination. Within 20 years 165,000 smallpox cases manifest themselves.


1872 In England, 87% of infants are vaccinated for smallpox. Over 19,000 die in England and Wales.

1887 In England, Dr. Edgar M. Crookshank, professor of pathology and bacteriology at Kings College, is asked by the British Government to investigate the cowpox outbreak in Wiltshire. The result of the investigation was contained in two volumes of "the History and Pathology of Vaccination", in which he states that "the credit given to vaccination belongs to sanitation".

1888 Bacterological Institute in Odessa, Russia, tries its hand at a vaccine for anthrax. Over 4,500 sheep are vaccinated. 3,700 of them die from the vaccination.

1909 New York Press, January 26, 1909, publsishes a report by W.B. Clark which states, "cancer was practically unknown until cowpox vaccination began to be introduced. I have seen 200 cases of cancer, and I never saw a case of cancer in an unvaccinated person." Scientific evidence begins to mount that where human lymph is employed in a vaccine, syphilis leprosy and T.B. soon follow. Where calf lymph is employed in the creation of a vaccine, T.B. and cancer soon follow. (Cancer and Vaccination by Esculapius).

1944 Health Practitioners Journal, June 1944, reports Dr. S.S. Goldwater, the New York Commissioner of Hospitals states "as a result of the drugs, vaccines, and other suppresive treatments used to check diseases, chronic diseases are growing at such a rate that America may become a nation of invalids."

1948 England bans smallpox vaccine.

1948 Louis Sauer makes an observation at an AMA meeting where Pertussis (whooping cough) vaccination was discussed. Sauer points out that "the neurological damage caused by Pertussis vaccine is the same as the damage caused by Pertussis. According to Sauer, "a customary prophylactic dose of the Pertussis vaccine seems to illicit a chain of nervous system reactions and in some cases irreversible pathological changes in the brain. These findings resemble those encountered in cases of severe whooping cough (Pertussis).

1976 Dr. Robert Simpson of Rutgers University addresses science writers at a seminar of the American Cancer society. pointing out, "...immunization programs against flu, measles, mumps, polio, etc., may actually be seeding humans with RNA to form latent proviruses in cells throughout the body. These latent proviruses could be molecules in search of diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, systemic lupus erythematosis, Parkinson's disease, and perhaps cancer." Accordin to Dr. Wendell Winters, a UCLA virologist who also attended the seminar, "immunizations may cause changes in the slow viruses and changes in the mechanism of DNA."

1988 In Wyoming, 73% of rubella cases occur in vaccinated children.

1988 Announced in Washington Post that all polio since 1979 caused by vaccine.

1991 Second Immunization Conference held in Canberra, Australia. Dr. Vierra Schiebnerova reports that "vaccination is the single most prevalent and most preventable cause of infant deaths."

1992 From 1988 to 1992, over $249 million has already been awarded due to hundreds of deaths and injuries caused by mandated vaccines. Thousands of cases are still pending. The permanent injuries from vaccines includee, but are not limited to, learning disabilites, seizure disorders, mental retardation, and paralysis. Many of the awards for pertussis vaccine deaths were initially (and wrongfully) misclassified as Sudden Death Syndrome.

[spacegurl]

Where are you getting this info from? It's misleading and false. Children that get vaccinated don't die, have AIDS or autism. There is no proof of all this. Where o where is that stuff cut/pasted from?

Absdisorder said that children in Africa get AIDS from vaccines and then he accused me of wanting to give children AIDS. He hasn't provided any sources from where he got his rubbish from other than repeating David Icke's theories like mantra. In Africa there is a lack of sanitary hygiene everywhere and it's a fact AIDS is rife in Africa too.

[gaias child]

spacegurl, I find it extraordinary that you are questioning that my son's coma was not caused by his mmr vaccine, it is a fact that my son went into a coma after an mmr vaccine, it is also a fact that many other children have has well, and i have met a few too. Whether it caused his autism I can't prove because no one will help, but the other children who went into a coma also got autism. As far as I'm concerned that is not a coincidence. His life is hell, I have experienced and witnessed it. If you want evidence there is plenty out there go and look at www.mercola.com.

Of course I can't prove it, because no one will acknowledge it, because of the cover ups going on because it is big money for [pharmacuetical, any doctor that acknowledges it on the NHS faces being struck of Andrew Wakefield. There are some doctor's privately who acknowledge it, thankfully I have onebut they face being struck off too, that is the way it works.

You are seem closed minded to other people's experiences obviously only believing the media.

You are entititled to your opinion but the fact is my son went into a coma after his MMR, and is now a very disabled person, which he was not before, detooxing and diet has helped a bit but not cured and that is my proof

[spacegurl]

spacegurl, I find it extraordinary that you are questioning that my son's coma was not caused by his mmr vaccine, it is a fact that my son went into a coma after an mmr vaccine, it is also a fact that many other children have has well, and i have met a few too. Whether it caused his autism I can't prove because no one will help, but the other children who went into a coma also got autism. As far as I'm concerned that is not a coincidence. His life is hell, I have experienced and witnessed it. If you want evidence there is plenty out there go and look at www.mercola.com.

Of course I can't prove it, because no one will acknowledge it, because of the cover ups going on because it is big money for [pharmacuetical, any doctor that acknowledges it on the NHS faces being struck of Andrew Wakefield. There are some doctor's privately who acknowledge it, thankfully I have onebut they face being struck off too, that is the way it works.

You are seem closed minded to other people's experiences obviously only believing the media.

You are entititled to your opinion but the fact is my son went into a coma after his MMR, and is now a very disabled person, which he was not before, detooxing and diet has helped a bit but not cured and that is my proof

Before I comment on the medical aspect, I want to point out that the general tactic to use against an opponent is by calling them "closed minded" because they have a different view and it's an easy way for the masses to cope with it. Do you really know what being close minded properly means? Close mindedness is having a belief system. You don't question anything, you never take in other possibilities, you believe something rigidly and nothing can convince you that your views might be wrong. Having an "open mind" means that you do not have any beliefs. You're open for other ideas and theories. You question everything first befoire jumping to conclusions and also see things objectively without emotion. Now in general most people assume that "close mindedness" is equal to being shallow and that "open mindedness" is equal to having a popular thought process, the opposite of what they actually mean. So in a sense you're using that word "close mindedness" as an attack on me for daring to question your MMR experience. You already said you have no proof. I have given links and sources to account for the fact there is no evidence linking childhood autism with MMR vaccines.

The link you posted sticks to a holistic site where they reject most forms of modern medicine in favour of "better" methods: i.e. drinking urine. They charge big prices for their products. They also sell books too, what an amazing business enterprise :rolleyes: Well I'm not criticisng you for wanting a different approach to your health but these are not solutions. The site promotes quackery.

I wonder if you know what to give children who end up having rubella and measles. You never acknowledged my point aimed at your sweeping statement that measles don't kill when I said yes they do kill.

Have a look at this site Misconception about vaccinating children and MMR (http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/immu/autism.html)

[montag]

Hey adzboarder, good on you for going with your initial gut instinct and refusing the vaccine. My 2 year old has never seen a doctor let alone been vaccinated and he is one of the healthiest little boys around..

Bottom line is it's your choice and unlike 99% of the population you have made an informed choice by asking questions, most mothers waltz in to the doctors surgery for their childs 'jabs' without ever asking what it is their child is being injected with..

I'll leave you with this quote you may find interesting..

"Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible." - Bertrand Russell, "The Impact of Science on Society", 1953

montag

[spacegurl]

Hey adzboarder, good on you for going with your initial gut instinct and refusing the vaccine. My 2 year old has never seen a doctor let alone been vaccinated and he is one of the healthiest little boys around..

Bottom line is it's your choice and unlike 99% of the population you have made an informed choice by asking questions, most mothers waltz in to the doctors surgery for their childs 'jabs' without ever asking what it is their child is being injected with..

I'll leave you with this quote you may find interesting..

"Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible." - Bertrand Russell, "The Impact of Science on Society", 1953

montag

Are you making an indirect attack on me for having a different opinion than most people on this forum? you said "most mothers waltz in to the doctors surgery for their childs 'jabs' without ever asking what it is their child is being injected with.." Why say that? Adzboarder is a father. Why not say "parents"? Unless you're referring to me but didn't want to say. I wouldn't let my children receive medicine without knowing the facts about it. You believe that not injecting your kid is a "choice" but I ask you what happens when rubella and measles ect become a problem and how will you cope? how old is your kid? perhaps he/she is healthy because its not playing with infected kids.

[montag]

Are you making an indirect attack on me for having a different opinion than most people on this forum?
Wow, you think we're paranoid..:confused:

What you do with your child is your business..

[spacegurl]

Wow, you think we're paranoid..:confused:

What you do with your child is your business..

Am I paranoid? Not if there's an element of truth in it. I don't believe it, I'm only asking if it's a possibility. That is the difference. Most people on here believe in reptile shapeshifters. I don't believe that but it doesn't mean I'm denying it either.

You did not answer my question about what should be done with a child who catches rubella and measles. What would you do if this happens? I'm asking you. So far not one single person on this thread has ever come forward and explained what to do if their kids have measles and rubella. Nobody has told me where they get their information from which they've posted stuff on here, without proper sources. Everytime I ask those questions it draws a blank, either no one says anything or they get upset and change the subject. You can't answer these can you? Its because people on this thread really haven't got a clue about medicine at all. I'm only asking WHAT WOULD YOU DO again, for the safety of my children if they ever catch it. Adzboarder claimed he knew of alternative medicines to stop measles and rubella and yet he refuses to tell me. He doesn't really know. Neither do you.

[smashstuff]

Like I said before, I had measles, mumps and rubella as a child, and if you're healthy, they are nothing to worry about. IF your child catches one of these things, you can simply keep them at home, with fresh air, and fruit and vegetables juices. Simple. IF you have a child without vaccinations, he/she will have a stronger immune system, and is not going to have much of a problem with these diseases. Back in the day, if a kid caught measles, they used to hold a measles party with a load of other kids, so they'd all catch it get it out the way. Measles, Mumps and Rubella are pretty pathetic diseases to be worrying about.

[montag]

You did not answer my question about what should be done with a child who catches rubella and measles. What would you do if this happens?
Measles is very rarely fatal and normally only in third world countries. There are always risks, but at the end of the day I weighed up the risks and benefits of immunizing my children and decided against it, thats my choice as a parent.

I'm not criticizing your choice to vaccinate, I was merely making a point about parents that don't look in to this better before vaccinating their children. If you did your own research and made an informed decision to vaccinate then more power to you, I hold no judgment at all.

[spacegurl]

Measles is very rarely fatal and normally only in third world countries. There are always risks, but at the end of the day I weighed up the risks and benefits of immunizing my children and decided against it, thats my choice as a parent.

I'm not criticizing your choice to vaccinate, I was merely making a point about parents that don't look in to this better before vaccinating their children. If you did your own research and made an informed decision to vaccinate then more power to you, I hold no judgment at all.

You did not answer my question. What would you give your children if they suffered measles and rubella. Yes the disease "rarely" kills kids in the West because it isn't widespread, and the majority of children get immunised. However that wasn't the case in times past...

[spacegurl]

Like I said before, I had measles, mumps and rubella as a child, and if you're healthy, they are nothing to worry about. IF your child catches one of these things, you can simply keep them at home, with fresh air, and fruit and vegetables juices. Simple. IF you have a child without vaccinations, he/she will have a stronger immune system, and is not going to have much of a problem with these diseases. Back in the day, if a kid caught measles, they used to hold a measles party with a load of other kids, so they'd all catch it get it out the way. Measles, Mumps and Rubella are pretty pathetic diseases to be worrying about.

I understand your thinking of kids having a stronger immune system by going through a variety of diseases. I had whooping cough when I was 6 because my parents were afraid of giving me the vaccine, yet the illness was terrible and I almost died. It lasted months and I still remember it. All the kids in my school were vaccinated and didn't get whooping cough, many kids wondered if they'll ever see me again. It's likely that if they ever had the disease some might not have survived into adulthood. I don't want my children to go through what I did, and I don't want to see them suffering a horrible illness like that. It isn't the same thing as a cough or a cold. In times before vaccines were introduced into the mainstream there were so many children who died of whooping cough, measles and rubella and most of them were babies. Small children younger than 3 don't have the strong defenses against some fatal bacteria. My children are too young for the MMR vaccine but I seriously considered this. The medicine is available and I looked into it's ingredients carefully. If there is an alternative then please tell me. I can't risk losing my children to prove that their immune systems are going to be strong as immune systems are different to each person. Just because I survived whooping cough it doesn't mean they will but they won't get the disease now as they were immunised for that.

[steevo]

I understand your thinking of kids having a stronger immune system by going through a variety of diseases. I had whooping cough when I was 6 because my parents were afraid of giving me the vaccine, yet the illness was terrible and I almost died. It lasted months and I still remember it. All the kids in my school were vaccinated and didn't get whooping cough, many kids wondered if they'll ever see me again. It's likely that if they ever had the disease some might not have survived into adulthood. I don't want my children to go through what I did, and I don't want to see them suffering a horrible illness like that. It isn't the same thing as a cough or a cold. In times before vaccines were introduced into the mainstream there were so many children who died of whooping cough, measles and rubella and most of them were babies. Small children younger than 3 don't have the strong defenses against some fatal bacteria. My children are too young for the MMR vaccine but I seriously considered this. The medicine is available and I looked into it's ingredients carefully. If there is an alternative then please tell me. I can't risk losing my children to prove that their immune systems are going to be strong as immune systems are different to each person. Just because I survived whooping cough it doesn't mean they will but they won't get the disease now as they were immunised for that.

I know what you mean, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you dont :( It's terrible what the human race has to put up with. I mean I bet those evil cunts created these diseases just so that they could use their vaccines on us (and also to kill a load of us too of course).

Well I havent had alot of these vaccines cos when I was a kid my mother didnt trust them. Thanks Mum :)

[adimon]

I understand your thinking of kids having a stronger immune system by going through a variety of diseases. I had whooping cough when I was 6 because my parents were afraid of giving me the vaccine, yet the illness was terrible and I almost died. It lasted months and I still remember it. All the kids in my school were vaccinated and didn't get whooping cough, many kids wondered if they'll ever see me again. It's likely that if they ever had the disease some might not have survived into adulthood. I don't want my children to go through what I did, and I don't want to see them suffering a horrible illness like that. It isn't the same thing as a cough or a cold. In times before vaccines were introduced into the mainstream there were so many children who died of whooping cough, measles and rubella and most of them were babies. Small children younger than 3 don't have the strong defenses against some fatal bacteria. My children are too young for the MMR vaccine but I seriously considered this. The medicine is available and I looked into it's ingredients carefully. If there is an alternative then please tell me. I can't risk losing my children to prove that their immune systems are going to be strong as immune systems are different to each person. Just because I survived whooping cough it doesn't mean they will but they won't get the disease now as they were immunised for that.

Good on you spacegurl. Thank you for not giving in to the attacks waged on you by people unable (or unwilling) to answer simple questions or defend their viewpoints without a quote even from a book whose author refuses to cite any real research. :cool:

As a child, I contracted and suffered from mumps and measles. Both are horrible, and tricky to treat. You have made a valid point in mentioning that death is still a possibility from these diseases.

If no-one has any answer to spacegurl's questions on research and possible alternative remedies then all they are doing is disproving their own points.

[montag]

You have made a valid point in mentioning that death is still a possibility from these diseases.
Yes and the same can be said for death and injury caused by complications from vaccines..
I'm not here to debate the issue on vaccinations with anyone, I made a personal choice not to vaccinate, thats my right and my business and as I clearly stated previously, what you do is your business.

I posted here because advise was sought in the OP, I offered my advice as others did, end of story..

montag

[spacegurl]

Yes and the same can be said for death and injury caused by complications from vaccines..
I'm not here to debate the issue on vaccinations with anyone, I made a personal choice not to vaccinate, thats my right and my business and as I clearly stated previously, what you do is your business.

I posted here because advise was sought in the OP, I offered my advice as others did, end of story..

montag

There are consequences of not giving children vaccines and I pointed that out, and asked what alternatives and medicines would be available, and no one's answered. Also you still haven't answered my question about what you would do if your kids have those diseases. You posted on here and now you want to quit the thread because you can't answer that. IMO that wasn't giving advice but exchanging a personal opinion.

[spacegurl]

Good on you spacegurl. Thank you for not giving in to the attacks waged on you by people unable (or unwilling) to answer simple questions or defend their viewpoints without a quote even from a book whose author refuses to cite any real research. :cool:

As a child, I contracted and suffered from mumps and measles. Both are horrible, and tricky to treat. You have made a valid point in mentioning that death is still a possibility from these diseases.

If no-one has any answer to spacegurl's questions on research and possible alternative remedies then all they are doing is disproving their own points.

Thanks Adimon, this subject raises important questions and I'm glad someone can see it from my angle.

[gaias child]

Ok I take your points that you made and I agree that everyone has a different point of view but you are the one saying that my son did not go into a coma after his mmr,or regress and develop autism, he has also tested for mercury poisoning and regressed, I'm sorry but that does seem seem closed minded to me, maybe I'm wrong, but I accept you have a different opinon to mine, and kif I;'m not wrong then you will accept what I say also.

There is another case of a child on this forum who went into a coma after MMR on this forum in the general discussion and I have bumped that topic up.

It is making me very distressed to discuss this here so I will not be posting any more on this here.

[spacegurl]

Ok I take your points that you made and I agree that everyone has a different point of view but you are the one saying that my son did not go into a coma after his mmr,or regress and develop autism, he has also tested for mercury poisoning and regressed, I'm sorry but that does seem seem closed minded to me, maybe I'm wrong, but I accept you have a different opinon to mine, and kif I;'m not wrong then you will accept what I say also.

There is another case of a child on this forum who went into a coma after MMR on this forum in the general discussion and I have bumped that topic up.

It is making me very distressed to discuss this here so I will not be posting any more on this here.

I don't appreciate being called "close minded" by someone who can't understand the basic medical facts and who admits to not having proof that MMR vaccine gave autism to a child. I also think it's vey rude to say someone is close minded because you disagree with them. Like before, I said there isn't any evidence that MMR jabs is linked with autism. Children may have already had autism as this developes around the same time MMR is given. What did the doctors tell you about your kid? They must've said something. The rumour is that MMR gives children autism and I posted something earlier on this thread that contradicts that faith based superstition.

Please read this: http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/immu/autism.html

[montag]

Ok I take your points that you made and I agree that everyone has a different point of view but you are the one saying that my son did not go into a coma after his mmr,or regress and develop autism, he has also tested for mercury poisoning and regressed, I'm sorry but that does seem seem closed minded to me, maybe I'm wrong, but I accept you have a different opinon to mine, and kif I;'m not wrong then you will accept what I say also.

There is another case of a child on this forum who went into a coma after MMR on this forum in the general discussion and I have bumped that topic up.

It is making me very distressed to discuss this here so I will not be posting any more on this here.
Hello gaias child, I'm so very sorry to here about your son, that is an absolute tragedy, you have my deepest sympathy. I also have a very close friend who's son developed a mild form of autism(Aspergers) after having his MMR, my friend said the change was almost immediate and to the day he had his shot, very sad but compared to your story it sounds as if he may have been lucky..
I have a feeling that a hundred years from now we will look back at this practice of injecting these poisons in to our children with dismay, I wish all the best for you and your son for the future..

Take care..
montag

[gaias child]

Thank you montaq for your support, It has been very distressing, at the time the doctors didn't say anything, they just said it was a mysterious virus and they didn't know what it was, it took a little while to link it to the jab, which happened once I realised it had happened to others too, the reaction was immediate, projectile vomiting, fever and then coma, it was several years before Andrew Wakefield. I worked it out myself.

I appreciate your view space gurl but you refuse to even look at proper research calling it quackery. You might think a nutrition site is quackery and you are entitled to your view but there is research on that site, I'm posting a few here,that has been done by professors and doctors. You even refuse to acknowledge my experience and I find that very distressing. I had measles mumps and rubella as a child too, but I don't have autism now as a result.

The quackwatchsite that you linked too is full of complete inaccuracies and is funded by pharmaceuticals who have a vested interest in not having this matter come to light for reasons I gave before, which is about profits for pharmaceuticals.

These are some links of thousands which show a link between thimerosol and autism and other similar conditions.

http://www.babysnark.com/health/thimerosol-vaccines-autism.asp

http://www.onlinejournal.com/health/062905Pringle/062905pringle.html

http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/thimerosal.php

http://www.thimerosal-news.com/news/thimerosal-autism-news.html

[adimon]

For those that advocate a choice not to immunise, could you please answer the question of what you would do if a person caught measles, mumps or rubella, and how you would treat them?

These diseases used to be prevalent. Hard work has been achieved to make sure they have been largely eradicated.

As far as I know, the persons responsible for the scare in the late 90s have now admitted that there is no link between MMR and autism.

[gaias child]

I would also like to ask to those that insist there is no link between autism and mmr,

Why do you think that so many children either regressed or went into a coma after an mmr there are others on this board too and on the asd board I visit?

Mine is not just a view but a real experience, that I witnessed which I feel is my duty to share with others, I would hate anyone to go through what ihave been through.

At the end of the day people have to make up there own minds whether to vaccinate their children and whether those risks are worth taking, all my family develped measles mumps and rubella everyone I went to school with had it( 70s and 80s)no one died, or was even left with any complications, the only thing I ever heard was that one person knew someone a male who had been left infertile by mumps, so I agree there are some problems, the few people who have died of measles are the same ones that would have reacted to the mmr, as the immune system is faulty, but too most people they are not dangerous diseases.

Space gurl for your info, as you said I didn't understand basic medical facts I do have an understanding of chemistry, I have a Phd in chemistry and Masters in nutritional science.

[frank1974]

Space gurl for your info, as you said I didn't understand basic medical facts I do have an understanding of chemistry, I have a Phd in chemistry and Masters in nutritional science.

I've also studied chemistry, but understood nothing of worth until I studied quantum mechanics and physics too. Nothing is understood in chemistry until the electro-magnetic nature of elements are studied too. Its the ties between sciences that are missing these days. Not many connect the dots any more to understand nature. Chemistry only measures reaction end results, it cannot explain the mechanism or geometry that make the reactions possible. Its ok for understanding how to make a mix like baking a cake as an analagy.

A couple of things come to mind regarding alternatives. Drinking freshly ozonated distilled water. Ozone is natures anti bacterial agent. O3 gives up an electron so helping out the immune system by neutralising pathogens germs etc. that are missing an electron. In turn the blood gets oxygenated (O3 to O2). Ozone is used instead of chlorine in some swimming pools to keep the water clean from bacteria etc.(and safe!). Also in operating theatres. New products like ozone soaked gauzes for wounds in German medicine, causes wounds to heal with hardly any scarring and heals much faster. Avoiding too much caffeine, pork, mushrooms, tomatoes as these stress our lymphatic system in our bodies which stops us being able to get rid of stuff in our blood that doesn't belong. No need to stop eating them, just not everyday, our bodies need time to recover/detox from certain foods.

And all the fuss about finding a unified theory that explains eveything in the universe big and small. Its ALL electro-magnetic. I could also go on for pages more exposing some of the 'accepted fallacies' in science today. Wormholes for example, no astrophysicist in the whole wide world has ever seen a wormhole. Only in simulations. Its an example of science just making stuff up to fit the accepted theory of the day(dark matter). Regardless of whether it has been observed or not.
More rubbish that has been mis-interpreted like chinese whispers.
'The speed of light is the fastest anthing can go', and 'the speed of light is the only constant in the universe'. Rubbish! The actual statement from physics is, 'In a pure vacuum, the speed of light is constant.'. Well nowadays, with all the technology we have, we know for a fact that even in a vacuum at absolute zero there are particles, they have a half-life so short, that its impossible at the moment to study them. This is otherwise known as the 'Zero Point Field' and is not science fiction, it exists everywhere in the universe, its what fills atoms/electrons etc. The speed of light can therefore never be constant. Close to constant in space thats constant. Light has been slowed to the speed of sound with the use of specially filled prisms. We don't see anything past the speed of light, its void(dark matter?), quite simple really if you study the electromagnetic spectrum.

There are literally hundreds of discoveries the last half century that shows the errors in the accepted science model we use today. Nobel prize given for Modern Thermodynamics is an example. Has many proven contradictions.

So if modern medicine can ONLY be based upon a flawed 300 year old scientific model that has never once been ammended for each new nobel prize winning discovery made this past 70 years. Then caution should be used when listening to the 'experts' space gurl keeps referring too.

'300 years?', I hear people saying, 'But Einstein wasn't around 300 years ago'. Ever hear of a man called Boskovic from the 1700's? There's not a lot Einstein wrote, that Boskovic hadn't already. Its where the legendary E=mc2 equation originally comes from. Einstein and Nikola Tesla (amongst others), formed their theorys about the universe and nature from the work of Boskovic.

Science has been made mathematical and un-understable because of the nonsense it pushes forward. Einstein wrote 'I don't understand my theory myself anymore since the mathematicians got hold of it!'. People think that he must have suddenly learned complex mathematics because he failed his maths at school, people forget he was hopeless at math and only wrote the theory. Others did the math. Proof you don't need to have studied complex astrophysics (the worst) to understand the nature of our universe. Its all geometry and electro-magnetic, positive and negative, good vs evil and then lots of thought based on factual observation.

The atlantian myths and legends are fascinating me at the moment, with every discovery science has made just this past 20 years, it has vindicated another atlantis myth as truth, truely unearthly knowledge. How did they know about DNA? How did they know the physical structure of DNA? How did they know to call it the tree of life? How did they know it had 22 branches (chromosones)? How did they know what the planets really looked like in our solar system, colour and composition? Should we believe them when they say we have 12 bodies in our solar system, they counted Earth's moon as a body, and another 10th planet and its moon too and the Sun the 12th. This mysterious planet is supposed to have a ~3600 year orbit with a 90 deg orbit compared to the other planets. This would explain why its never been seen in our recent history, only detected, because its above or below the Sun's equinox/event horizon. And why o why would they count the planets from the outside planet as the 1st, to the center of our solar system the 12th body the Sun, if they were native to Earth (the 7th planet)?
And finally, their language and writing was infinently more complex and detailed than any language on the planet today. 400 character cuneform alphabet. They also had more complex math, sextadecimal, like hexadecimal used in 8-bit, 16-bit language etc. but upto 60 instead of just 16 before the carry flag is set. Most people these days have trouble with the standard base 10 decimel system! Our systems we use today originated there, like 12 hours in a day, 360 degrees in a circle, 60 minutes in an hour. etc. How comes the first civilzation with writings and a proper social network with libraries, schools and sprituality etc. was the most intelligent and advanced in history?

Sorry, went a bit off topic, just got on a ranting role fuelled by some of the ignorance I've read tonight. By the way, its people who've had vaccinations that are capable of being a healthy carrier of a healthy virus that can therefore easily mutate. Vaccines do not kill anything, they just allow the viruses to live inside us with a reduced risk of being infected by them. Because they can now live longer, they can evolve and mutate into things we have yet to be exposed too. Like the many NEW viruses this past 50 years.

They allow the 'Alien entities' to live inside us, to feed off us. I believe these are the aliens on earth, microbes, viruses etc. Maybe the cause of obesity is pathogens, viruses etc. living inside of us, and storing energy in the form of fat? Who knows, there is an infinite number of things that science cannot explain. Yet some people think everything thats to be discovered already has been. I know for a fact I never had a single vaccine growing up, and I know i've never had an ounce of fat. I rarely exercise, have eaten an unhealthy fat rich, sugar rich, protein rich, vegetable and fruit scarce diet all my life. I've mystified nutritian experts because of the amount of fatty food and lack of exercise. I once went on a diet of 4 large meals a day with snacks in between for 6 months of nothing but fried food, carbohydrates and cream cakes. Didn't gain a single ounce. The only thing I gained at the time was a tachio cardia heart problem. Not even a Sumo diet puts fat on me. The only way I can put on weight is with muscle (If I had the energy to bother working out). After approx 20 different diets, 40 blood tests (a few with Pfeizer), the only result that was unusual about my blood was a very low count of pathogens/bacteria in my blood and a slightly more alkaline pH level, also it survives a lot longer outside the body because of the low bacteria level.

Just to add, I started smoking when I was 26 because I thought it would age me because I was continually embarrased about being asked for ID to buy alcohol or get into a club. I had terrible self-esteem and confidence because I didn't look the age I was. This is another example of how our society imposes 'normality' on our psyche to be like everyone else. Variety is the spice of life.

[adimon]

For those that advocate a choice not to immunise, could you please answer the question of what you would do if a person caught measles, mumps or rubella, and how you would treat them?

These diseases used to be prevalent. Hard work has been achieved to make sure they have been largely eradicated.

As far as I know, the persons responsible for the scare in the late 90s have now admitted that there is no link between MMR and autism.

Well, it's been six days, and I've had no reply to my question from those that are eschewing the MMR jab. I really hope you can return to the debate. :)

[frank1974]

Well, it's been six days, and I've had no reply to my question from those that are eschewing the MMR jab. I really hope you can return to the debate. :)

For a start, boys cannot get rubella so why inject them with it?

I stated a couple of alternatives but obviously you only see what you believe and edit out everything else. 3.9Hz bi-phase square wave In-vivo blood electrification is one, ionic/colloidal silver is another, and freshly ozonated water is another. If these can reduce a HIV count from 500,000 to less than 100, what do you think they would do to mumps, measles and rubella (or any other virus).

No virus can ever develop a resistance to electricity, and its proven blood electrification interferes with the recepter sites on viruses to render them incapable of breeding and feeding.

Just read this OFFICIAL united states patent if you want conclusive proof that we don't need vaccines or antibiotics and have a much better alternative which has been proven beyond doubt. You cannot get a patent granted if the invention doesn't work as claimed. It even claims to neutralise the HIV virus as well as ALL viruses, pathogens, parasites and fungi in the blood. Again to reiterate, no claims can be made in a granted patent that aren't true.

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/Kaali%205188738.pdf

Drug companies are not going to roll over to let this happen are they?
A person healed is a customer lost.

[montag]

Well, it's been six days, and I've had no reply to my question from those that are eschewing the MMR jab. I really hope you can return to the debate. :)
Hi adimon, having a healthy immune system is the best way to attack the measles virus, also vitamin A is said to be of benefit. Antibiotics may be used if there is an infection, but are usually not needed. Plenty of fluids, good food and maybe some calamine lotion for the itching.

[adimon]

For a start, boys cannot get rubella so why inject them with it?


They cant contract the disease but they can be carriers. I'll read the pdf and get back to you.

[adzboarder]

I havent answered you Spacegurl as I have been away for the last few weeks and not had a chance to get on the forum... and thank god judging by your ranting and raving.

I was going to post up some info for you of where I got some of my information from but to be honest with you I don't record every single point of reference of every single website or article that I read, I'm clearly not as anally retentive as you are. I guess we can all look at medical websites and spout loads of stuff that nobody understands, use the latest buzz-phrases and long complicated words like you have, I am sure you are very clever but it doesn't really impress me.

Further to your attacks on me and pathetic name calling (absdisorder?) and for calling my Son a biohazard, I wont be posting anything further on this thread or answering any of your pointless questions about car seats and DIY and all that other rubbish you were asking me. You do what you want to do and I will do what I want to do.

In short - leave me alone.

Gaias child, I am very sorry to hear about your son, it truly saddens me and I hope you get the medical help and support you need. If anything I have posted has hit a raw nerve with you then I can only apologise and I wish you the best and hope for a positive future for you and yours.

...and cheers Montag for your comments, that's good news. We'll let the unknowing masses inject their children with crap, I guess we will all see the true outcome in the end.

Thanks to all participants in this. (except you know who). Cheers.

[adimon]

I guess we will all see the true outcome in the end.

Damn straight! :cool:

[nuit]

Hi All,

Just a quick challenge for you all, can anyone tell me what I should do about my Son's MMR vaccinations that are due soon. The government and the doctors and health people I have spoken to on this issue are overwhelmingly supporting the MMR jab for children. When I look it up, all I can find is stuff on America's vaccinations. Is it the same horror story here in England with mercury, autism on the rise and all the rest of it? What will my Son miss out on and what are the true risks if he doesn't have the jab?

My gut instinct is that he shouldn't have it.

What do you all say, should he have the MMR jab? If not, please provide links and explain why.

Many thanks all, I am sure you will help me get the true information I need.

as a parent and with the risk of childhood infections being on the increase i would not have risked my son not having had it and i am glad now he did

[adzboarder]

Good for you Nuit, that's great.

[nuit]

Good for you Nuit, that's great.

ok help me out on this please, is that a sarcastic retort or not?

[smashstuff]

I think maybe he misread your reply.

[whale]

MMR kills way way more kids now than measles would be doing with or without the vaccine http://www.whale.to/vaccines/measles.html

[jimijams]

MMR kills way way more kids now than measles would be doing with or without the vaccine http://www.whale.to/vaccines/measles.html
Thanks for that, Whale is a really great resource site for vaccination info..

[21_12_2012]

For a start:-

Mercury is the 2nd most dangerous substance known to man...
Plutonium is the first.

That fact on it's own should be enough to cause alarm bells ringing.

I mean I bet those evil cunts created these diseases just so that they could use their vaccines on us (and also to kill a load of us too of course).

I couldn't agree more.

http://herballure.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB19

This is a forum where mercury-poisoned people (from amalgam dental fillings)
discuss treatment, symptoms and general knowledge about the subject.

Now, if people are becoming affected by amalgam-mercury fillings
(swallowing very small amounts over time)....then imagine the effects of
having mercury injected directly into the bloodstream, in the form of
thimerosal in vaccines(and ultimately directly to the brain)

http://herballure.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB19

This is another section of the above forum, regarding vaccines.

An ex-girlfriend of mine has an autistic son...the autism developed after
his MMR vaccine.

I myself have mercury effects from numerous fillings (and vaccines) I've had
over the years, which I am now in the process of having removed and replaced,
and detoxing from.

I noticed the major changes starting around 10 years old, when i first
started having fillings...(and shortly after that i had my TB injection).

My immune system started becoming weaker and weaker...
Also my mental attention span was reduced...ability to make decisions
was affected...increased tiredness...a high pitch tone (tinitus) in the ears
which has increased over the years...plus many other minor symptoms
including mild eczema...muscle twitches (mild but regular)...tiredness every
morning...procrastination...depressive-like feelings...cyclical-thinking patterns
and mildly obsessive behaviour...then kidney stones started (very painful)...
which are a major symptom of mercury (which alters the bacteria/growths in
your body and cause candida)

These symptoms are ALL starting to subside due to the detox i have been
on for 3 months now...(heavy metal detox)...it's no coincidence...I believe
it was a combination of vaccines and fillings that caused these symptoms.

Some people are more prone to the effects of mercury than others..
but ultimately it does affect everybody to some degree.

In my opinion, mercury fillings and vaccines are probably the biggest
conspiracy on our health ever....it's pure evil for the body/brain.

Here is the astrological, astronomical, and alchemical symbol for mercury:-


http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/598/mercpijpg1wx5.jpg

The term "mad as a hatter" comes from the days when hat-makers used mercury
in the 'cheaper' hats, and gradually lost their minds through
inhaling the vapours from mercury.

The term "quack" for doctors, comes from the european terms used for
Mercury (quecksilber, quacksalver) (quicksilver in english).
The term "quack" was first applied to anyone using mercury to cure skin
diseases, e.g. the skin lesions associated with tertiary syphilis.
The skin rash would disappear, but the disease went deeper into the
organs and the nervous system and the person died a very painful death.
The term was then used against dentists using mercury for the same reason,
using a poisonous substance to "cure" or fix decay.

[born_free]

Hi AdZ,
Just read your post and I have some of comments.

Comment #1: My daughter had a reaction to her MMR (symptoms of encephalitis). The doctor got upset with us for letting him know about the reaction, he minimized the situation, and tried to blame it on "something going around", but it was pretty clear to both me and my husband that she had a reaction to the MMR. We treated her with homeopathic remedies for about a year afterwards. The whole episode was very very unpleasant, except for the homeopathic remedies, and that was expensive.

Comment #2: Are you aware after giving your child series of (most) immunizations, that immunity lasts only 8-12 weeks? So even if a child is fully immunized, that child is not immune from the diseases of childhood, except for a brief window of time. Today, many of these diseases of childhood which are immunized for are actually spread by children who contracted them as a result of receiving immunizations. Think about chicken pox and smallpox as examples.

This is not 1950 and we are not currently having polio outbreak. The situation has changed. By all means, if you live in an area which has barbed wire and horses, I would consider getting tetanus vaccine (but not every immunization for everything in the whole world). By all means, if you live near Mexico and your child is at risk for contracting whooping cough (if it has gone around in your area before), I would consider getting the whooping cough vaccine (but not every immunization for everything in the whole world).

Comment #3: Are you aware you normally can not sue in the event your child is brain damaged or otherwised harmed by receiving immunizations? Even in cases where you could sue, medical personnel will not help you gather "proof positive" that the immunization caused the damage. There is a lot of pressure being put on the medical establishment to avoid reporting immunization reactions, because any such reactions are reportable (must be reported). And that is why there has not been found a correlation in several of the research studies of immunizations to severe adverse reactions. It's a dog chasing his tail. BTW, most research studies have been funded or otherwise tied to the pharmaceutical companies. (Well, Mr. Smith, we just can't tell you definitively the cause of your son's illness. We can not say it was a reaction to a shot. There is no conclusive evidence. etc, etc.) You bear total responsibility in the event there is an adverse reaction. That is the reason why (in most places) immunizations can not be made mandatory, even though it is a "law" in most places. Because the state or pharmaceutical company would then become legally liable for damages. They can't afford that, so is it NOT compulsory. That is also why you can state personal, religious, or medical exemption.

Google it. There are many sites on the web that teach about the dangers of immunizations and they quote research statistics, and facts and figures. Most of the sites I refer to are grassroots organizations of parents who are learning the truth about this issue, others are holistic practitioners who are speaking out because they are the only ones trying to heal children from the adverse effects of the immunizations (not government sites promoting immunizations and which quote skewed information). It is alarming. And it is big bucks for the pharmaceutical companies and doctors. Also, look up Dr. Leonard (Lenny) Horowitz. He has done a lot of research on this matter.
Born Free

[adzboarder]

ok help me out on this please, is that a sarcastic retort or not?

No, I am saying if you did that and are happy about it then thats great. Personal choice and all. Are you in any way worried about it at all?

[adzboarder]

Thanks Born_free, wow imagine our doctors trying to suppress facts about harmful effects of vaccines, I am not in any way surprised. It's quite revolting how they overwhelmingly put pressure on parents to have the vaccines and how they frown when you tell them your child hasn't had it and wont be having it.

Very worry some if there is absolutely no come-back, and why do you think the pharmaceutical companies are so wealthy.. hmm... I wonder...

Gov tells them to reduce population, they make drugs, gov tells you to take them and pays them handsomely when you do, regardless of whether or not they do you any good. Sickening.

As an interesting aside, I hear that 1/5th (20%) of Americans are on anti-depressants of some kind, THAT is truly amazing and explains the pharmaceutical company's immense profits...

Thanks for the info and I hope your daughters better now.

[roxanna222]

This is from the states an article I read off Rense's site. Im a parent and this is a fear of mine and already I have felt this pressure though thankfully not as intense though did get alot of grief from the family and such. I like how in the article it gives instructions on what exactly to do in case one is faced in such a deplorable situation.
Go Parents!!!!
http://www.rense.com/general79/inject.htm hope the link works

[nuit]

No, I am saying if you did that and are happy about it then thats great. Personal choice and all. Are you in any way worried about it at all?

no as my son ended up with an illness where his own immune system fights itself i say thanks every day that i chose to have him vaccinated

[boots]

no as my son ended up with an illness where his own immune system fights itself i say thanks every day that i chose to have him vaccinated

Is that lupus as my wife use to have that until we worked on her with alternative medicines.

[boots]

For a good source of informations visit www.prisonplanet.com Alex Jones site and check out the left hand side. Personally after dicovering that our daughter was Autistic there is noway on gods earth would I get her vaccinated again for there other ways to fight infections and to have childern attacked with diseases at there early stage of there development is just to much. It's no so much the viruses that are a problem but the shit they put into it mainly mercury. And it IS part of the plan of the NWO/Elite plan to wipe out 80% of the world population.:mad:

[jimijams]

no as my son ended up with an illness where his own immune system fights itself i say thanks every day that i chose to have him vaccinated
:confused: Did he acquire this illness after he had had his shots?

If so are you able to put two and two together so it doesn't make five.?

[cruise4]

Putting aside all the evidence thats out there, don't Vaccinations 'scream' CAUTION - HAZARD to your intuition/instincts? They do me.

I had a chat to a doctor about Cancer, B12 and some other stuff a while ago... and eventually he stated... to be honest a good and healthy balanced diet would give you the best protection by far.

[steevo]

I dont think I have mentioned this before but quite a few years back I once went into hospital cos I twisted my ankle playing footy and a nurse was seeing to me and she said that there was gonna to be a big outbreak of TB (I dont know where she got her info) and she said that we have all got to make sure we are immunised. This was a bit scary to hear (I was still a sheeple then lol). You are gonna laugh at this but lol I went to my GP and told him that I want to be vaccinated :eek: and he laughed and said that I dont need one. So I said, "but I have been told that theere is gonna be an outbreak" and he laughed again and then went all serious with me and said "TRUST ME you dont need a jab, just trust me" and he winked and I said ok and thanked him and I left.

[cruise4]

You've prompted me to remember something else that happened. I had to go to the doctors as a sheeple years ago and there was a junior stand-in for some reason. He was real keen on the SSRI's. When the older and usual local doctor returned he told me to get off them immediately in no uncertain terms... which I did. That small experiment left me with a mild head tremor.

In case this link hasn't been posted before:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/vaccines/index.htm

Much info in one place.

[astral_girl]

http://osiris.sunderland.ac.uk/autism/vaccine.htm

[astral_girl]

if theres no evidence [which is bollocks by my way of thinking]

theen why do the dhss offer compo


What is it?

People who are severely disabled due to a vaccination against specific diseases may receive a one-off Vaccine Damage Payment of £120,000.
Top of the Page
Basic qualifying conditions

To qualify for a Vaccine Damage Payment, the customer must be at least 60% mentally or physically disabled due to a vaccination against :

* diptheria
* tetanus
* pertussis (whooping cough)
* poliomyelitis
* measles
* rubella (German measles)
* mumps
* tuberculosis
* meningococcal Group C (meningitis C)
* haemophilus influenzae type B (hib); or
* smallpox (vaccination upto August 1971)

Claims can also be made on the basis of -

* combination vaccines for diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (DTP) and for measles, mumps and rubella (MMR);
* close personal contact with a person who has been vaccinated against oral poliomyelitis;
* the mother was vaccinated during pregnancy against one of the above diseases.

The disabled person must also satisfy these conditions -

* be two years old or more on the date of the claim
* have been vaccinated in the Isle of Man or the UK, unless they or someone in their family was in the armed forces and vaccinated as part of the armed services medical facilities.
* vaccination must have been administered before the person's 18th birthday, unless it was against poliomyelitis or rubella (German measles) or meningococcal Group C, or during an outbreak of disease in the UK or the Isle of Man.
* the claim must be made at any time before the customer's 21st birthday, or, if they have died, the date on which they would have attained that age, or up to 6 years after the date of the vaccination; whichever date is later.

Top of the Page
How much could I get and how am I paid

The scheme provides a tax-free lump sum of £120,000.

Payments are made to a trustee if the disabled person is -

* under age 18; or
* unable to manage their own affairs.

If the disabled person lives with the family the parents may be appointed trustees.
Top of the Page
How and when should I apply?

To request a Vaccine Damage Payment claim form, write to :
Vaccine Damage Payments Unit
Palatine House
Lancaster Road
PRESTON
PR1 1HB
Top of the Page
Downloadable Documents
Acrobat PDF FileSection 1 - Benefits and Contributions Information Guide. (68 kb)
Format: Acrobat PDF File
This is an excerpt from our guide which outlines the benefits available to the sick and disabled.

You will need Adobe Acrobat to download documents that are PDFs, this is available free by following this link:Download Adobe Acrobat
DisabledGo Information Terms & Conditions

[cruise4]

IT'S REALLY NO MYSTERY AT ALL

According to the National MS society (NMSS) MS develops only after exposure to some unknown environmental agent...... Dr. Swank, an expert who has researched and studied MS for nearly 50 years states that,

"In all probability something changed in the environment in the last 150 to 200 years to cause Multiple Sclerosis".

(Multiple Sclerosis Diet Book Dr. Swank)

-MS was first recognized as an illness in 1836 in France.
(Principles or Neurology textbook 1993)

-"Silver amalgam" dental fillings (called amalgams) were first used commercially in France in 1826, ten years before the first cases of MS were documented.

-These amalgam fillings which contain 50% mercury and only 10% silver are still used today to make "silver amalgam" fillings. (American Dental Association)

Mercury is known to be far more poisonous than lead or arsenic. These amalgams are proven to release a poisonous vapor while in your mouth. (The results of this finding where published in Lancet Medical Journal in the late 1970's.)

Nearly 90% of inhaled mercury vapor is absorbed by your body with every breath you take. This poison accumulates in your body. Chronic mercury poisoning results from low doses of mercury vapor over extended periods of time.

Chronic mercury poisoning causes many problems including symptoms indistinguishable from MS: numbness, fatigue, blindness, paralysis, etc. (Alternative Medicine Textbook published by Future Medicine Publications 1993, and OSHA.)

MS is a nervous system disorder that results in myelin destruction. Myelin is a protective covering surrounding the axons of certain nerves composed of lipids and protein present in small quantities of the brain.

Mercury poisoning has been proven to cause myelin destruction. During pregnancy women with known mercury poisoning had almost no symptoms (Minamata Disease, Minamata Bay Japan 1950's). During pregnancy women with MS symptoms often lessen (National MS Society).

Mercury leaves the woman's body and crosses the placenta into the baby. This would explain the loss of symptoms in the pregnant women with MS.

This would also explain why, if your mother has MS, you are more likely to get MS than if your father has it (National MS Society).

Women are much more likely to develop MS than men.

Women are also affected more by mercury than men.

MS is more common in northern climates than southern climates.

Miners of mercury are more effected in the northern mines than southern mines.

There are known to be epidemics of MS in the Faroe islands.

The primary diet of Faroe Islanders is pilot whale which is rich in mercury.

Inhaled mercury vapors affect every organ in the body.

People with MS cannot become organ donors (National MS Society).

The American Dental Association (ADA) states that people who have a family or medical history of allergies to metals need to avoid amalgams (Truth About Amalgams pamphlet 1991).

The MS Society states that, you are 20 to 50 times more likely to develop MS if it is in your family.

The American Dental Association (ADA) pamphlet, "Truth About Amalgams 1991", states "The National MS Society has found no evidence that MS is related to amalgam fillings".

Of 200 research projects totaling 38 million dollars that the National MS Society funded, not one penny was spent researching mercury poisoning.

Of the thousands of diseases known to man, the only disease mentioned by name in this ADA pamphlet regarding fillings was MS. Mercury poisoning is very difficult to diagnose.

MS is very difficult to diagnose. (NOTE: Part of the diagnosing procedure for MS is to rule out mimics of the disease. Yet, believe it or not, mercury poisoning is almost never considered during the MS diagnosis procedure. Even though MS symptoms mimic mercury poisoning. According to OSHA chronic mercury toxicity cannot be distinguished from MS! Mercury levels cannot be assessed by either blood or urine levels. Hair analysis, may sometimes show levels of mercury in the body.

People who have been known to have mercury poisoning showed elevated levels of protein in spinal fluids, ......spinal protein levels are also elevated in people with MS.

Mercury has been found in the spinal fluid of MS patients. In fact 8 times more mercury is found in the spinal fluid of MS patients than in the spinal fluid of those without MS.

Mercury rapidly depletes the immune system and will induce a number of auto-immune diseases.

MS is also thought to be the result of an auto-immune response.

According to a report given to the E.P.A. 76% of the patients with MS were cured, or improved, after proper removal of "silver amalgam" dental fillings, and subsequent chelation treatment.

Chelate, (Kelate) in toxicology, to use a compound to enclose or grasp a toxic substance and make it non-active and thus non-toxic (Alternative Medicine Textbook, Future Medicine Textbook 1993, "Silver Dental fillings" The Toxic Timebomb by Sam Ziff, Aurora Press).

Mercury, at one time, was used in many products, including latex paint, batteries, cosmetics, medicines, eye wash etc.

[cruise4]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552

Very informative video on Vaccines! Vaccines- The risks,The benefits,The choices...