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willnotbesilenced

13-03-2010, 10:20 AM

Whether you like this radio host or not, please listen to this
interview - about how a 16 year old student was called into
the Principle`s office just for sharing his faith AFTER the lesson
had finished. The school said he was being DISRUPTIVE !!!!

Friday March 12, 2010

Guest: Nathan De La Garza, Pastor Jeremy Moore,

Topic: A 16 yr old High School student finds himself in the Principal's office after religious debate and for carrying a Bible in school.

http://www.trunews.com/listen_now.htm

http://www.trunews.com/Audio/3_12_10_Friday_trunews2.mp3

Its not just in the U.S.
A friend recently drew my attention to this :

Dumbing down the language

« on 08/03/2010, 16:55 »
My youngest son has just come home from school. He tells me that his RE teacher has just been through his course work, where he said "King Solomon built the first temple and dedicated it to the glory of God". He has been told that this is not the language a 16 year old would use, and if he doesn't change how he says it, the examiner will assume that he's copied it from somewhere and mark him down.

Another girl has been told that her language is too advanced, and she will have to use simpler language or be accused of plagiarism.

How can I encourage my son to use good English; using the right word instead of some shorthand approximate, when his teachers continually tell him to dumb it down?

We continually criticise youngsters for poor English, but when they show a high standard of the language, they're told not to!

Grrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

John
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,84140.0.html

That has got NOTHING to do with plagiarism.
Its got everything to do with the words that student used !!!!!

satan is trying to wipe out Christianity.

Did Yeshua not warn that we too would be persecuted for his name?
Not to mention the warning in Revelation :-

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image , neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Note for the sceptics and atheists :

I trust you are not laughing, thinking `oh good those Christians will
soon be gone`
Because believe you me : your fate is going to be far worse when
God pours out His wrath on an UN-REPENTANT WORLD.

picha

13-03-2010, 11:36 AM

rapunzel

13-03-2010, 11:40 AM

.................................................. ..............................
Note for the sceptics and atheists :[/B][/SIZE]

I trust you are not laughing, thinking `oh good those Christians will
soon be gone`
Because believe you me : your fate is going to be far worse when
God pours out His wrath on an UN-REPENTANT WORLD.

And I bet you and other Christians will be licking your lips at seeing the torture and pain of non-Christians. How you are looking forward to it! Your religion is sick and perverted.

armoured_amazon

13-03-2010, 11:40 AM

Its school that needs to be fuckin banned!!!!!!!

+1

willnotbesilenced

13-03-2010, 11:56 AM

And I bet you and other Christians will be licking your lips at seeing the torture and pain of non-Christians. How you are looking forward to it! Your religion is sick and perverted.

Hello `rapunzel`

Your reply saddens me.
Far be it from me or anyone else to want any non-believers to suffer,
NOR does God want anyone to be destroyed.

People (like yourself) insist on using that word `religion`
Religions create wars.
In contrast, and if you really think about it, it`s NOT all Christians,
Jews nor Muslims who cause wars - but mostly it is Government
leaders who hijack a particular `religion flag` to go and slaughter.

I didnt condone the war in Iraq.
I dont condone mass killings.
I am sick to the high teeth of these evil deeds.
I have no respect for any of our leaders.

I dont make these posts just for a laugh, but rather that I hope
to make critics like yourself see the DIFFERENCE between belief
in God and His Son Yeshua - as against `the world RELIGIOUS system`

Love and peace to you

willnotbesilenced

13-03-2010, 12:10 PM

willnotbesilenced

13-03-2010, 12:23 PM

Matthew 9

10 And it came to pass , as Jesus sat at meat in the house , behold , many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.

11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth , I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Can you see how the RELIGIOUS leaders ect considered themselves
to be very righteous ?

They critised Yeshua for eating with common sinners.

But Yeshua quickly put them in their place.

If this was `now` in this day and age - do you really believe that
Yeshua would dine with `Pope Benedict` ?
or any of those money making ministry preachers ?
Or with GWB and GB ?
Or with Obama ?
OR the bankers ?
OR any of the CEO`s from mega rich companies ?

No, of course not, He`d be more likely to want to dine with our forum
poster `rapunzel` and others on here in order to try and make them
realise that they`re sitting on the wrong side of the fence.

It is their own `blindness` that is keeping them from the TRUTH.

willnotbesilenced

13-03-2010, 12:34 PM

John 8

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery , in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned : but what sayest thou?

6 This they said , tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself , and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself , and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said , No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go , and sin no more.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/john/8.html

Those worldly, self-righteous Scribes and Pharasees laid trap after trap
for Yeshua.

The woman He rescued from their clutches was a common prostitute,
but the emphasis here is that Yeshua did say : `Go and SIN NO MORE`

In other words: He didnt condone what she had done, but rather wanted
her to mend her ways from then on.

rapunzel

13-03-2010, 02:37 PM

Hello `rapunzel`

Your reply saddens me.
Far be it from me or anyone else to want any non-believers to suffer,
NOR does God want anyone to be destroyed.

People (like yourself) insist on using that word `religion`
Religions create wars.
In contrast, and if you really think about it, it`s NOT all Christians,
Jews nor Muslims who cause wars - but mostly it is Government
leaders who hijack a particular `religion flag` to go and slaughter.

I didnt condone the war in Iraq.
I dont condone mass killings.
I am sick to the high teeth of these evil deeds.
I have no respect for any of our leaders.

I dont make these posts just for a laugh, but rather that I hope
to make critics like yourself see the DIFFERENCE between belief
in God and His Son Yeshua - as against `the world RELIGIOUS system`

Love and peace to you

Then why do some Christians seem to relish describing the horrors that await non-believers? I know what you’ll reply – that these Christians are only concerned to save people from damnation, even to the extent of frightening them. I have read enough on other Christian Forums to know that that is not the case. Sheer delight in the fate awaiting non–believers is evident in many of the posts I have read along with a very unpleasant triumphalism.

As for your God not wanting anyone to be destroyed; that’s not what the Bible says. It is obvious from numerous passages that the doctrine of predestination is quite clear. Passages such as:-

Romans 9:18

“Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.”

Romans 9:22

“What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath-prepared for destruction”.

In other words people are chosen for salvation or damnation even before they are born.

Even the Gospels accept that the numbers to be saved are few as in:

Matthew 7:13-14

“"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”

Luke 13:24- says the same and Mark 4:12 explains that Jesus teaches in parables so that people may not be saved.

“….so that, " 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'

There are many other instances in the Bible that clearly show that the majority of people who have ever existed are destined for damnation and all for the glory of God.

Vincent Cheung, a prominent theologian has said:

“One who thinks Gods glory is not worth the death and suffering of billions of people has too high an opinion of himself and humanity."

Of course you will respond and give me numerous references which show that the Bible says the opposite which just goes to show how contradictory the Bible is. The fact that the Bible supports such contrary doctrines as Universalism and Calvinism shows that.

I wonder what you think of this passage in Chronicles which appears to teach that showing love and help towards the “wicked” i.e. unbelievers incurs the wrath of God.

2 Chronicles 19:2

“And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to King Jehoshaphat, "Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the LORD? Therefore the wrath of the LORD is upon you.”

I’m sure that you don’t condone wars and the things that are happening today; neither do I nor I suppose do the majority of people on the Forums, those of faith and those of no faith. If Governments use religion as an excuse for aggression and conquest it is because religious texts support such aggression and it is predominantly the monotheistic religious texts that do so because it is the monotheistic religions which proclaim the “I’m right and you are wrong and therefore damned” idea.

You and Christians like you can’t separate yourselves from the religious systems of the world which were created from texts which you hold sacred. You cannot say: “this is not our fault”.

Love and peace to you too.

rapunzel

13-03-2010, 02:38 PM

Rapunzel.....

If you dont believe what Ive stated (in previous post) about
`RELGION`
then why dont you give us the benefit of the doubt and read
how Yeshua CONDEMNED the RELIGIOUS LEADERS of His day :

Woe to you
http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=Woe+to+you&c=nt&t=kjv&ps=10&s=Bibles

The RELIGIOUS leaders HATED Yeshua because He was telling
them the truth, and the truth offended them.

Matthew 21

12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13 And said unto them, It is written , My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves
http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/matthew/21.html

Does that not kinda make you think what would happen if
Yeshua was here right now - and went and turned over the tables of all
those wealthy bankers who are robbing people blind ?Would Yeshua still be hated today ?
YES of course, because He would still be telling people the truth.

IF people could just make that IMPORTANT distinction between FAITH
- as against RELIGION - then I think they`d start to realise that Yeshua
WAS on the side of the people, and wanted to save them from the
evil doers in the world.

Its entirely your decision whether you want to see these things or not,
but if you allow your hatred for the evil doers to blind you, then please
dont blame the truth tellers for the consequences in the future.

Take good care.

Jesus was condemning some of the religious leaders because they were hypocrites; he condemned their pride in following the religious law to the letter, to the detriment of their spiritual life, and he condemned their sense of superiority over other people. I’m sure they hated him because of that but their real hatred of him was because they considered him a blasphemer and with just cause.

He wasn’t condemning religious leaders per se but rather those who abused their position.

I don’t know whether Jesus would condemn the bankers today. He condemned the money changers because although they were doing a necessary job in changing unclean roman money into money that could be used in the Temple for buying sacrificial animals and for donations; they must have been cheating on the rates of exchange. I’m sure this only concerned Jesus because it was being done in the Temple.

willnotbesilenced

13-03-2010, 03:54 PM

Then why do some Christians seem to relish describing the horrors that await non-believers? I know what you’ll reply – that these Christians are only concerned to save people from damnation, even to the extent of frightening them. I have read enough on other Christian Forums to know that that is not the case. Sheer delight in the fate awaiting non–believers is evident in many of the posts I have read along with a very unpleasant triumphalism.

As for your God not wanting anyone to be destroyed; that’s not what the Bible says. It is obvious from numerous passages that the doctrine of predestination is quite clear. Passages such as:-

Romans 9:18

“Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.”

Romans 9:22

“What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath-prepared for destruction”.

In other words people are chosen for salvation or damnation even before they are born.

Even the Gospels accept that the numbers to be saved are few as in:

Matthew 7:13-14

“"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”

Luke 13:24- says the same and Mark 4:12 explains that Jesus teaches in parables so that people may not be saved.

“….so that, " 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'

There are many other instances in the Bible that clearly show that the majority of people who have ever existed are destined for damnation and all for the glory of God.

Vincent Cheung, a prominent theologian has said:

“One who thinks Gods glory is not worth the death and suffering of billions of people has too high an opinion of himself and humanity."

Of course you will respond and give me numerous references which show that the Bible says the opposite which just goes to show how contradictory the Bible is. The fact that the Bible supports such contrary doctrines as Universalism and Calvinism shows that.

I wonder what you think of this passage in Chronicles which appears to teach that showing love and help towards the “wicked” i.e. unbelievers incurs the wrath of God.

2 Chronicles 19:2

“And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to King Jehoshaphat, "Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the LORD? Therefore the wrath of the LORD is upon you.”

I’m sure that you don’t condone wars and the things that are happening today; neither do I nor I suppose do the majority of people on the Forums, those of faith and those of no faith. If Governments use religion as an excuse for aggression and conquest it is because religious texts support such aggression and it is predominantly the monotheistic religious texts that do so because it is the monotheistic religions which proclaim the “I’m right and you are wrong and therefore damned” idea.

You and Christians like you can’t separate yourselves from the religious systems of the world which were created from texts which you hold sacred. You cannot say: “this is not our fault”.

Love and peace to you too.

Hello Rapunzel,

Hmm.... you`ve searched out a few tricky passages there lol.

I`m not going to try and excuse any contradictions, I am aware of them,
but I will say: I personally keep to the four gospels. I would much prefer
to believe what Yeshua taught rather than anything that came later.
I dont see any hatred in what Yeshua taught, but NEITHER do I see
Him saying its okay to carry on sinning !!

Yes Yeshua did say: strait is the gate... and few... ect. but I only have to look around at the blindness within the churches nowadays to realise that the preachers are either `asleep in the pulpit` or of the other type: preaching a `feel good candy-coated gospel` and are only concerned in the mega profits they reap in from those who are blind enough to believe their sugar-coated doctorines. So really I believe Yeshua was 100% right when He said that `few will find that narrow path`

I would agree there`s been plenty pitting one religion against another (the `I`m right - you`re wrong` as you said) but where do we see in the gospels
that Yeshua created all these religions ? We dont.
His message was for ALL of mankind throughout the earth.
He even said : `and the kingdom will be preached throughout the earth and
then the end will come`
It`s man who has created religions - so why blame God or Yeshua?

I`m sorry to hear that you`ve encountered some less than considerate
Christians in some of the forums. I have read such postings myself so do
know it is true.
In contrast: Yeshua never forced anyone to listen to Him nor follow Him,
nor did He threaten anyone if they didnt.
In both Christianity and Islam: there does appear to be an element of
fundamentalists who, on the one hand, will say `there`s no compulsion`
but on the other hand: its `convert or else` !!
I dont believe anyone does their faith any favours by doing that whilst
Yeshua didnt do that, and therefore HE is the example we should be following,
rather than listening to forum Christians or even `writers` who wrote after
Yeshua`s death and resurrection.

Ive listened to some really good broadcasts by those who have done their
research and homework, and believe you me the teachings of the early
Christian Fathers is quite different to what we hear today.

No better example is there then we debate with modern day Christians about
christmas (for example) They will argue to the death that 25 December was
Yeshua`s date of birth - Yet only show their ignorance whilst the early
Christian Fathers NEVER celebrated christmas.
Same with easter... the early church commemorated Passover, and whats more they knew what day was the Sabbath.

Christians do claim that God`s word is infallable - and I am 100% certain that
when it was originally written down IT WAS - but over time, and given the
evil leaders who have used the Bible for their own ends I think one needs to
keep a very open mind as to what has been `added` or `deleted` or `altered in some way` particular during Constantine`s era.

There are those who would counter-argue and say: `but the Bible cannot
be altered its infalable` My answer to that would have to be, IF that is the
case then WHY do we read in Revelation that God warned about `adding`
or `taking away` from the words in THIS Book.
Did He only mean the Book of Revelation ?
Or might He have meant the entire collection of writings that formed THE BOOK AS A WHOLE ? I would find it difficult to accept that only Revelation
was left unprotected. I believe the warning may well cover the entire
Bible - and if so, alot of translators (and those with agendas) are going to be in trouble.

It is very easy to see that fact if we look at the RC Bible which is far more
books in it than say the C. of E ones do. Regards the latter... we then
have all the `versions` and the `new` ones have been badly corrupted with
new age doctorines.
Its only a few days ago that I argued with a fellow Christian in this forum (on a different thread) about the Book of Enoch.
Hmm..... seeing as Enoch is mentioned in other texts in Scripture....
and seeing as how Enoch reveals that Yeshua isnt God, then its not too
difficult to imagine as to why it was NOT included in our Bible versions whilst
it would reveal too much truth.

I truly believe that enough truth has been retained, so that we can still
see clearly what Yeshua taught - and what Yeshua did for us.
As for God`s Judgement and punishment, then much like any loving father
with his children - if they continue to disobey and be defiant then yes
its reasonable to say there will be severe consequences.
No father could be called a `good` parent if he did not warn his children
first before metering out punishment.
If we as parents know how to do these things with our children, then
how much fairer is God towards His children?

We must never `water down` what Yeshua taught - but neither must we
add it it.

Love and peace.

Luke 11:13 KJV
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children:
how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them
that ask him?

rapunzel

13-03-2010, 05:15 PM

Hello Rapunzel,

Hmm.... you`ve searched out a few tricky passages there lol.

I`m not going to try and excuse any contradictions, I am aware of them,
but I will say: I personally keep to the four gospels. I would much prefer
to believe what Yeshua taught rather than anything that came later.
I dont see any hatred in what Yeshua taught, but NEITHER do I see
Him saying its okay to carry on sinning !!

Yes Yeshua did say: strait is the gate... and few... ect. but I only have to look around at the blindness within the churches nowadays to realise that the preachers are either `asleep in the pulpit` or of the other type: preaching a `feel good candy-coated gospel` and are only concerned in the mega profits they reap in from those who are blind enough to believe their sugar-coated doctorines. So really I believe Yeshua was 100% right when He said that `few will find that narrow path`

I would agree there`s been plenty pitting one religion against another (the `I`m right - you`re wrong` as you said) but where do we see in the gospels
that Yeshua created all these religions ? We dont.
His message was for ALL of mankind throughout the earth.
He even said : `and the kingdom will be preached throughout the earth and
then the end will come`
It`s man who has created religions - so why blame God or Yeshua?

I`m sorry to hear that you`ve encountered some less than considerate
Christians in some of the forums. I have read such postings myself so do
know it is true.
In contrast: Yeshua never forced anyone to listen to Him nor follow Him,
nor did He threaten anyone if they didnt.
In both Christianity and Islam: there does appear to be an element of
fundamentalists who, on the one hand, will say `there`s no compulsion`
but on the other hand: its `convert or else` !!
I dont believe anyone does their faith any favours by doing that whilst
Yeshua didnt do that, and therefore HE is the example we should be following,
rather than listening to forum Christians or even `writers` who wrote after
Yeshua`s death and resurrection.

Ive listened to some really good broadcasts by those who have done their
research and homework, and believe you me the teachings of the early
Christian Fathers is quite different to what we hear today.

No better example is there then we debate with modern day Christians about
christmas (for example) They will argue to the death that 25 December was
Yeshua`s date of birth - Yet only show their ignorance whilst the early
Christian Fathers NEVER celebrated christmas.
Same with easter... the early church commemorated Passover, and whats more they knew what day was the Sabbath.

Christians do claim that God`s word is infallable - and I am 100% certain that
when it was originally written down IT WAS - but over time, and given the
evil leaders who have used the Bible for their own ends I think one needs to
keep a very open mind as to what has been `added` or `deleted` or `altered in some way` particular during Constantine`s era.

There are those who would counter-argue and say: `but the Bible cannot
be altered its infalable` My answer to that would have to be, IF that is the
case then WHY do we read in Revelation that God warned about `adding`
or `taking away` from the words in THIS Book.
Did He only mean the Book of Revelation ?
Or might He have meant the entire collection of writings that formed THE BOOK AS A WHOLE ? I would find it difficult to accept that only Revelation
was left unprotected. I believe the warning may well cover the entire
Bible - and if so, alot of translators (and those with agendas) are going to be in trouble.

It is very easy to see that fact if we look at the RC Bible which is far more
books in it than say the C. of E ones do. Regards the latter... we then
have all the `versions` and the `new` ones have been badly corrupted with
new age doctorines.
Its only a few days ago that I argued with a fellow Christian in this forum (on a different thread) about the Book of Enoch.
Hmm..... seeing as Enoch is mentioned in other texts in Scripture....
and seeing as how Enoch reveals that Yeshua isnt God, then its not too
difficult to imagine as to why it was NOT included in our Bible versions whilst
it would reveal too much truth.

I truly believe that enough truth has been retained, so that we can still
see clearly what Yeshua taught - and what Yeshua did for us.
As for God`s Judgement and punishment, then much like any loving father
with his children - if they continue to disobey and be defiant then yes
its reasonable to say there will be severe consequences.
No father could be called a `good` parent if he did not warn his children
first before metering out punishment.
If we as parents know how to do these things with our children, then
how much fairer is God towards His children?

We must never `water down` what Yeshua taught - but neither must we
add it it.

Love and peace.

Luke 11:13 KJV
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children:
how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them
that ask him?

I have no doubt that you are a good and honest person as are many other people of your faith and other faiths. I have a friend who is a staunch Catholic and she is one of the kindest and honest people I have ever met. There again I have another friend who is Wiccan and who I can say exactly the same about. Both of them are much better than I am as a person.

When you say you prefer to stick to the Gospels I presume that is because you don't fully trust Acts and the Letters as they may have been tampered with? But how do you know that the Gospels haven't been tampered with? You seem to be picking and choosing which parts of the Bible you will believe.

Yes, certainly parents punish their children if they have done wrong but they don't punish them for eternity.

As for people creating religion and not God what do you think much of the Torah is? There are Books and Books in the OT about establishing a religion with rules and ceremonies and priests etc.

I think you're wrong to say that Jesus never threatened anyone not believing in him. What did he say to the Pharisees? "Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell "

And what about Matthew 10;14-15

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city. "

That sounds like a threat to me and what about the burning of the tares in Matthew and I find Luke 19:27 very threatening.

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me"

No doubt the Inquisition found the above useful.

willnotbesilenced

13-03-2010, 07:01 PM

I have no doubt that you are a good and honest person as are many other people of your faith and other faiths. I have a friend who is a staunch Catholic and she is one of the kindest and honest people I have ever met. There again I have another friend who is Wiccan and who I can say exactly the same about. Both of them are much better than I am as a person.

When you say you prefer to stick to the Gospels I presume that is because you don't fully trust Acts and the Letters as they may have been tampered with? But how do you know that the Gospels haven't been tampered with? You seem to be picking and choosing which parts of the Bible you will believe.

Yes, certainly parents punish their children if they have done wrong but they don't punish them for eternity.

As for people creating religion and not God what do you think much of the Torah is? There are Books and Books in the OT about establishing a religion with rules and ceremonies and priests etc.

I think you're wrong to say that Jesus never threatened anyone not believing in him. What did he say to the Pharisees? "Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell "

And what about Matthew 10;14-15

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city. "

That sounds like a threat to me and what about the burning of the tares in Matthew and I find Luke 19:27 very threatening.

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me"

No doubt the Inquisition found the above useful.

Hello Rapunzel,

I think we might have different ideas on what defines `a threat`
I dont see those verses you quoted as being a direct threat.....
a strong statement /warning of the consequences of disobeying God, yes - but....
(no disrespect to others) its not as though Yeshua said `you must
convert now or be killed` Now that to me is a threat.
With Yeshua there was always that element of free choice.

If we put it in a more simple way... then its like the difference between
a father who tells his son : `if you disobey me any more then you`ll be
grounded for a month`
As against: a man who tells his son `if you disobey me again I`ll take off
my belt and leather you!`
One is warning of the consequences of not listening.
The other is an outright threat.
Thats basically my take on it.

Of Course the inquisitions was a different matter.... that was a case of
`convert or be killed`

The parable of `the wheat and the tares` obviously, as I`m sure you know,
paints a picture of the believers and the unbelievers living (growing) side by side until the harvest (aka: final judgement)
But have you not asked yourself : if that were a farmer with a real crop...
then which would he prefer to see come harvest time....

1) one third of his field being wheat /two thirds tares which he`d need to uproot and burn ?
OR
2) a full field of wheat ?

I`m sure Yeshua chose His words very carefully when He told such parables,
knowing that His audience would understand the concepts He used.
Like how when He spoke about the good shepherd who had a 100 sheep, but
when one was lost he left the 99 and he went to find the one which was lost.
Again, it paints a picture that God doesnt want to see any lost sheep (people)
Yeshua said He hadnt come for the righteous but for the sinners...
I cant help but wonder how many of those feel-good /get rich ministry
pastors actually go out and find lost people ?

I`m not trying to cherry pick, but I like the gospels because I feel they give
a very clear, yet easy to understand message.
I`m not educated in theology and find much of the OT very difficult to
understand, although of course I have read Genesis.
I believe it was for much the same reason that Yeshua kept His messages
simple and child-like so that people could understand.
He even covered the entire 10 commandments by saying `I give you a new
Commandment that you love one another as I have loved you`
Although Yeshua said He hadnt come to destroy the Law but rather to fulfil it,
that new commandment summed up all the others if people followed it.
We know thats true, because if everyone loved each other, in the same
way that Yeshua loved people, then there`d be no murder, no stealing, no adultary ect.

I cant explain Luke 19:27, so hopefully someone else on here will try and
answer that for you.

I cant prove to anyone whether anyone has tampered with the gospels,
but what I would say to you is this : the gospels feel very much alive to me, and there`s certainly enough sound teachings in there to enable us to live in
the right way and to treat others as we would want them to treat us.

I would agree there`s good and bad people in all faiths.
I`m sure we could make very favourable comparisons between say pagans
and wiccans who believe in caring for the earth (which is in effect a Biblical
principle whilst God said He would destroy those who destroy the earth)
as against say GWB (who professed to be a Christian) and who`s war led
to polluting Iraq with D.U.

I personally have great respect for the Native American people, again for
the same reason, they have great respect for the earth (as our home)
and their beliefs re. the Creator very much appear to come from their
heart.

I also have respect for the Muslims as well (but not the radical extremists
of course) whilst it can only be said they uphold some good moral values
regards family, and there`s certainly alot more morality in the way they
dress than what has become acceptable in the West. I wouldnt go so
far as to say its necessary for women to cover up from head to toe, but
I think there`s alot to be said in favour of modesty.

Ive met lots of people who have been catholics, and yes they`ve been
good people to. In fact I actually chose to send two of my children to a
RC secondary school just because they were more disciplined than what
the non-faith schools were.
Its just a pity they cant see through all the false teachings about Mary worship, and worship of saints, and confessing to a priest in a box !!!
There`s only one mediator between God and man - and its certainly not
those priests - nor Benedict !!

Speaking of ppl of other faiths, I had a very good discussions a few years
back with a lady who was a pagan, and Ive never forgotten a question
she put to me. I emphasise `question` because she wasnt trying to make
me doubt the Bible, because she admitted she`d read it (also read the Koran
as well) but rather what she asked me was this :
`Have you ever considered whether it might just be possible that the NWO elite have hyjacked the Prophecies and are `using` them to try and
deliberately start armegeddon?`

As she went on to say: `if they start enough wars... and if they use
enough of their technology.... then they`ll surely suceed in fulfilling every
prophecy anyone ever wrote`

Admittingly, I had to think about that one lol.
But given that GWB had claimed that God had spoken to him and told him to
invade Iraq..... then her question didnt really sound far off the mark.

Of course we could all put our own interpretation on that....
Some might say: GWB was not a christian & therefore had no fear of starting
that war.
I - as a Christian - would say that: GWB was a very confused evangelical Christian - who had been deceived, and as such probably did believe that
he`d received such a message from God, when in fact the source was
lucifarian and evil, and was a plot by satan to counterfeit and pre-empt
God.
That wouldnt make the Prophecies any less true because prophecy is
history written in advance.
You on the other hand will probably have an alternative view to either of
the above.

Anyway, I gotta go.... but been really nice talking to you.

Take care
love & blessings to you. :)

eustacekidd

13-03-2010, 07:10 PM

I laugh at the idea of god, but people should be allowed to worship and express their religion. Freedom of religion, like any freedom, must be defended robustly.

willnotbesilenced

13-03-2010, 08:50 PM

I laugh at the idea of god, but people should be allowed to worship and express their religion. Freedom of religion, like any freedom, must be defended robustly.

I`m sure you wont mind then if He laughs back at you..... :D

Psalms 2
1 Why do the heathen rage , and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder , and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh : the Lord shall have them in derision

Psalms 14:1 KJV
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt , they have done
abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

I find it interesting that people can believe in Leprechaun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia yet still believe there is no God.

Perhaps its just as well St Patrick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Patrick%27s_Day) believed in God, otherwise there`d
never would have been St Patrick`s day LOL. :D

willnotbesilenced

13-03-2010, 09:09 PM

I laugh at the idea of god, but people should be allowed to worship and express their religion. Freedom of religion, like any freedom, must be defended robustly.

Below, something for you to consider....

Two friends were walking down the street one day on their way to town...
One (David) was a believer....
His friend (Helen) was not.

As they were approaching the town centre, Helen pointed to a building
on the other side of the road, telling David : `Ive never noticed that
building before.... just look at the arcitecture.... brilliant design....
I wonder who designed such a wonderful building`

David : `no one designed it`

Helen : `what you mean no one designed it? - someone must have`

David : `Nope, it just appeared there all by itself`

Helen : `oh come on now, you`re being silly, something so beautiful
and intricately designed cannot have appeared out of nothing,
its got to have had a designer`

David : `Really? - so how come when you look around you at nature
you tell me it all just happened with the big bang, and that
there`s no God, and that nature isnt proof of an intelligent
designer?` :confused:

Helen : Okay, point taken !! :D

eustacekidd

13-03-2010, 09:25 PM

Below, something for you to consider....

Two friends were walking down the street one day on their way to town...
One (David) was a believer....
His friend (Helen) was not.

As they were approaching the town centre, Helen pointed to a building
on the other side of the road, telling David : `Ive never noticed that
building before.... just look at the arcitecture.... brilliant design....
I wonder who designed such a wonderful building`

David : `no one designed it`

Helen : `what you mean no one designed it? - someone must have`

David : `Nope, it just appeared there all by itself`

Helen : `oh come on now, you`re being silly, something so beautiful
and intricately designed cannot have appeared out of nothing,
its got to have had a designer`

David : `Really? - so how come when you look around you at nature
you tell me it all just happened with the big bang, and that
there`s no God, and that nature isnt proof of an intelligent
designer?` :confused:

Helen : Okay, point taken !! :D

Seriously, that drivel didn't work on me when I was 5, 20 years later it has the same effect only now I find it a bit sad that people have to use these manufactured parables instead of speaking from their own hearts. More importantly, is it so necessary for you to get the last word in and be "right" that you'd derail this thread completely?

willnotbesilenced

13-03-2010, 10:15 PM

Seriously, that drivel didn't work on me when I was 5, 20 years later it has the same effect only now I find it a bit sad that people have to use these manufactured parables instead of speaking from their own hearts. More importantly, is it so necessary for you to get the last word in and be "right" that you'd derail this thread completely?

Ok, point taken lol.

Actually, no one ever discussed the original topic I posted, so after
discussing so many other subjects I think it was already derailed lol.

If anyone wants to discuss the original topic... I`d be happy to.

I dont believe that student did any harm, and we`re hearing more
and more of this sort of censorship in schools.

take care.

rapunzel

14-03-2010, 03:03 PM

Hello Rapunzel,

I think we might have different ideas on what defines `a threat`
I dont see those verses you quoted as being a direct threat.....
a strong statement /warning of the consequences of disobeying God, yes - but....
(no disrespect to others) its not as though Yeshua said `you must
convert now or be killed` Now that to me is a threat.
With Yeshua there was always that element of free choice.

If we put it in a more simple way... then its like the difference between
a father who tells his son : `if you disobey me any more then you`ll be
grounded for a month`
As against: a man who tells his son `if you disobey me again I`ll take off
my belt and leather you!`
One is warning of the consequences of not listening.
The other is an outright threat.
Thats basically my take on it.

Of Course the inquisitions was a different matter.... that was a case of
`convert or be killed`

The parable of `the wheat and the tares` obviously, as I`m sure you know,
paints a picture of the believers and the unbelievers living (growing) side by side until the harvest (aka: final judgement)
But have you not asked yourself : if that were a farmer with a real crop...
then which would he prefer to see come harvest time....

1) one third of his field being wheat /two thirds tares which he`d need to uproot and burn ?
OR
2) a full field of wheat ?

I`m sure Yeshua chose His words very carefully when He told such parables,
knowing that His audience would understand the concepts He used.
Like how when He spoke about the good shepherd who had a 100 sheep, but
when one was lost he left the 99 and he went to find the one which was lost.
Again, it paints a picture that God doesnt want to see any lost sheep (people)
Yeshua said He hadnt come for the righteous but for the sinners...
I cant help but wonder how many of those feel-good /get rich ministry
pastors actually go out and find lost people ?

I`m not trying to cherry pick, but I like the gospels because I feel they give
a very clear, yet easy to understand message.
I`m not educated in theology and find much of the OT very difficult to
understand, although of course I have read Genesis.
I believe it was for much the same reason that Yeshua kept His messages
simple and child-like so that people could understand.
He even covered the entire 10 commandments by saying `I give you a new
Commandment that you love one another as I have loved you`
Although Yeshua said He hadnt come to destroy the Law but rather to fulfil it,
that new commandment summed up all the others if people followed it.
We know thats true, because if everyone loved each other, in the same
way that Yeshua loved people, then there`d be no murder, no stealing, no adultary ect.

I cant explain Luke 19:27, so hopefully someone else on here will try and
answer that for you.

I cant prove to anyone whether anyone has tampered with the gospels,
but what I would say to you is this : the gospels feel very much alive to me, and there`s certainly enough sound teachings in there to enable us to live in
the right way and to treat others as we would want them to treat us.

I would agree there`s good and bad people in all faiths.
I`m sure we could make very favourable comparisons between say pagans
and wiccans who believe in caring for the earth (which is in effect a Biblical
principle whilst God said He would destroy those who destroy the earth)
as against say GWB (who professed to be a Christian) and who`s war led
to polluting Iraq with D.U.

I personally have great respect for the Native American people, again for
the same reason, they have great respect for the earth (as our home)
and their beliefs re. the Creator very much appear to come from their
heart.

I also have respect for the Muslims as well (but not the radical extremists
of course) whilst it can only be said they uphold some good moral values
regards family, and there`s certainly alot more morality in the way they
dress than what has become acceptable in the West. I wouldnt go so
far as to say its necessary for women to cover up from head to toe, but
I think there`s alot to be said in favour of modesty.

Ive met lots of people who have been catholics, and yes they`ve been
good people to. In fact I actually chose to send two of my children to a
RC secondary school just because they were more disciplined than what
the non-faith schools were.
Its just a pity they cant see through all the false teachings about Mary worship, and worship of saints, and confessing to a priest in a box !!!
There`s only one mediator between God and man - and its certainly not
those priests - nor Benedict !!

Speaking of ppl of other faiths, I had a very good discussions a few years
back with a lady who was a pagan, and Ive never forgotten a question
she put to me. I emphasise `question` because she wasnt trying to make
me doubt the Bible, because she admitted she`d read it (also read the Koran
as well) but rather what she asked me was this :
`Have you ever considered whether it might just be possible that the NWO elite have hyjacked the Prophecies and are `using` them to try and
deliberately start armegeddon?`

As she went on to say: `if they start enough wars... and if they use
enough of their technology.... then they`ll surely suceed in fulfilling every
prophecy anyone ever wrote`

Admittingly, I had to think about that one lol.
But given that GWB had claimed that God had spoken to him and told him to
invade Iraq..... then her question didnt really sound far off the mark.

Of course we could all put our own interpretation on that....
Some might say: GWB was not a christian & therefore had no fear of starting
that war.
I - as a Christian - would say that: GWB was a very confused evangelical Christian - who had been deceived, and as such probably did believe that
he`d received such a message from God, when in fact the source was
lucifarian and evil, and was a plot by satan to counterfeit and pre-empt
God.
That wouldnt make the Prophecies any less true because prophecy is
history written in advance.
You on the other hand will probably have an alternative view to either of
the above.

Anyway, I gotta go.... but been really nice talking to you.

Take care
love & blessings to you. :)

The dictionary definition of threat is:

"a declaration of an intention or determination to inflict punishment, injury, etc., in retaliation for, or conditionally upon, some action or course; menace: "

Whether the threat is carried out immediately or in the future is not the issue. You may prefer to characterize Jesus message as "warnings" rather than threats but that's just semantics.

There are good people everywhere, of all religions and none and I suppose one of my main beef with Christianity is that it doesn't encourage moral behaviour since what is important is Belief and not Action. I know you will argue that Belief leads to Right Action but Belief is the most important thing. A child murdering paedophile who believes is acceptable but the kindest and most moral person in the world who does not believe is not acceptable. I've said this before on another thread - during the World Trade centre disaster one of the office workers who had helped several people down to safety went back into the building to try and save more people. He was never seen again. If he was not a Christian, according to Christian theology he is destined for hell, yet he gave his life to save his fellow men.

As far as prophecy goes I don't believe in it so I can't discuss whether the events taking place today are prophetic or not.

I don't find the Gospels clear and easy to understand since there are conflicting ideas in them. What are we to make of Jesus command to hate one's family? Apologists will say that what it really means is to love Jesus more than our family but if it had meant "love less" there are other words that could have been used. The Greek word used for "hate" means exactly that. "MISEO" means "to hate, pursue with hatred, detest" and the word used in Luke 14:26 is "miseo" - to hate and detest and it is used numerous times in the NT.

I agree that the overall message of the Gospels is to love one another but that does not mean that any of it has to be divinely inspired since other religions taught that too.

Best wishes to you.

catch22

15-03-2010, 01:49 PM

fcuk school and fcuk religion, they put that bullshit religion into your head when your brain is young and you have no idea about any thing, i mean i believed in santa clause when i was a kid ,any body else believed in santa? school is shit just run by retarded religios freaks.

mikey mikey

15-03-2010, 02:19 PM

Its school that needs to be fuckin banned!!!!!!!

Not to worry. You are already totally free of any schooling.;)

geezer661

15-03-2010, 02:28 PM

so an indroctrination centre bans another form of indoctrination?

choice

15-03-2010, 02:51 PM

your fate is going to be far worse when
God pours out His wrath on an UN-REPENTANT WORLD.[/B]
...

Slay the infidels.
Bloodshed.
Wrath.
Destruction.
Doom.
Pay time.
Revenge.

So much anger.
So much hate.
Such a lack of empaty...

...

How could that ever be divine?

"Here I will stand to face your wrath, While all the others are praying"

willnotbesilenced

15-03-2010, 03:50 PM

...

Slay the infidels.
Bloodshed.
Wrath.
Destruction.
Doom.
Pay time.
Revenge.

So much anger.
So much hate.
Such a lack of empaty...

...

How could that ever be divine?

"Here I will stand to face your wrath, While all the others are praying"

If you`re a parent then you might try and understand God`s stance when
it comes to Judgement and punishment.

Just as a parent LOVES THEIR CHILDREN - so also do they want them to do
what is right..... there`s always house-rules in everyone`s household.
We too, as adults, are bound by Laws every day - we just cannot run amok
and do as we like, can we?

Now, what does a parent do when their off-spring becomes DEFIANT ?
Oft times a young person can put themselves & others in danger by refusing
to obey a few simple rules.

Does a parent not forewarn ?
What sort of parent would they be if they didnt ?
In fact, if parents didnt keep any control then I`m sure our lives would be
made very miserable.
and if there were NO Laws of the land.... think what would happen.

So why do you feel that God is being unreasonable ?
It`s not as though there`s been no warnings given.
It`s not as though enough time as been allowed so that ppl can change their
ways for the better.

What is it about God`s Laws that you do not like ?

Have you never stopped to think : if everyone lived by the principles of God`s
10 Commandments..... then look how much BETTER it would be.

aka :
Do not murder..... would mean NO MORE WARS, and NO MORE MURDERS.

Do not steal...... wow, we could even go out and leave all our doors open,
whilst no one would then steal from us.

Do not covert..... there`d be no more jeolousy - and no one would crave
what we have got (and which often leads to people stealing from us)

Do not commit adultary..... Wow, now there`s a good one.... look how
many LESS divorces there would be.
People would know with 101% certainty that no one else would make a pass
at their husband or wife. Families would stay together, or at least not be
ripped apart by divorce.

Although I can understand why ppl would kick up against some of the government`s
man-made Laws - whilst many of those nowadays are just downright stupid, and often
are more in favour of wrong-doers - I just
CANNOT see why anyone objects to God`s Laws - whilst those would make
this world a far better, and safer place to live.

Even the Commandment about `keeping the Sabbath` was NOT given just because
God thought : `hmm... I`ll restrict em all for one day a week`
but rather because it was intended TO GIVE MAN A DAY OF REST.....
a day when he would not need to work......
I`m sure everyone is very grateful when their employer gives them one or
two days off from work a week..... yet when God offers you one day a
week whereby you can rest from all your labour and work..... people think
He`s `restricting` them in some way. It doesnt make sense.

Then there`s the Commandment `Honour thy father and thy mother`
hmm.....
In the U.K. it was Mothers Day yesterday.
What is that if its not a day intended to honour your mother ?
and likewise when its Fathers Day in a couple of months.

We could go through EVERY one of those 10 Commandments and find vast
benefits to be gained - so why are people so rebellious ?

Of course, rebelliousness is a trait of satan....
On the one hand : many will say: `satan doesnt exist` - yet strangely
when it comes to discussing the government leaders and their attendence
at various secret meetings which they hold, and when it comes to the
symbology attached to the masonics..... they`re all to ready to admit
that many of the world leaders are worshipping lucifer !!!! and committing
acts of child sacrifice. Either satan exists or he doesnt.
If he does.... then people need to beware,
But if they think he doesn`t.... then everything said about world leaders /masons /secret meetings /
child sacrifices must all be one big
conspiracy after all.
People cant have it both ways.

So you see when people are rebellious, and after warnings have been made,
and plenty of time given to change their ways.... there is little point in
critising God when Judgement falls upon those who REFUSED to listen.

choice

15-03-2010, 04:32 PM

If you`re a parent then you might try and understand God`s stance when
it comes to Judgement and punishment.

No i am not a parent and i had enough unfair punishment and judgement from my own parents. If Jesus is coming back for me to do the same, then it's better he goes preach to another door.

Stuff like you said makes me not have kids. I don't want to "own" a son of mine. I want to be supportive in the personality he is born with, and help him to develop in the most positive way. I don't think punishment and bullcrap is needed... But sadly he would live in a society that still believes in heaven and doom, punishment and defiance.

willnotbesilenced

15-03-2010, 05:12 PM

No i am not a parent and i had enough unfair punishment and judgement from my own parents. If Jesus is coming back for me to do the same, then it's better he goes preach to another door.

Stuff like you said makes me not have kids. I don't want to "own" a son of mine. I want to be supportive in the personality he is born with, and help him to develop in the most positive way. I don't think punishment and bullcrap is needed... But sadly he would live in a society that still believes in heaven and doom, punishment and defiance.

I think the emphasis there is when you`ve said : `UNFAIR punishment`
There`s a difference between fair and unfair.

So what do you think of the Governments Laws of the land then ?

The Law says that if you commit murder, you`ll go to jail.
Is that any different to God`s Commandment `do not murder` ?

The Law says that if you steal - then you`ll go to jail (or for lesser
offences be `fined`
But if people obeyed God`s Commandment : `not to steal` there`d
be no need for jails.

Maybe as a non-parent you see things differently.
I`m sure you wouldnt want to `own` a son, and yes I can understand
what you mean by that.
But if you had a son - would you not set house-rules?
and what would you do if those were totally disobeyed ?
I`m not suggesting you`d smack...
but Ive no doubt like most parents it would be a case of saying :
`enough is enough - you`ve gone too far`
and.....
`why dont you listen what Ive told you`
Otherwise you would end up with a very unruly child (as we all would
lol)

We were all given FREE WILL.
We still have free will in society.
We can either obey society`s rules and regulations, or we can take the
consequences.

We can either obey God`s rules.... or take the consequences.
NO DIFFERENT.

But the world would be a far safer place if we did.

I`m not trying to convince you here about religion(s)
I do not like religion per se.

What I`m referring to here are the CONCEPTS which we can find in
most Faiths.

Do you not find it strange that under Islam where they have more
MORALITY - their girls do not become pregnant - and have no need
therefore for abortions.

So we know therefore that when God expects MORALITY from us.....
then, if we listened, it would SAVE thousands of unwanted babies
being slaughtered.
So a good standard of MORALITY.... PREVENTS MURDER does it not ?

I`m sure you`re not convinced. satan would never allow you to be
unless YOU use some of that FREE WILL to break free from satan`s
clutches. :)

choice

15-03-2010, 06:08 PM

I think the emphasis there is when you`ve said : `UNFAIR punishment`
There`s a difference between fair and unfair.

But i don't believe in punishment.

We were all given FREE WILL... obey God`s rules.... or take the consequences.

I also don't believe in a Free Will based on Fear.

I believe in Healing. But for Healing you will need patience and skills... Punishment is for the weak of heart.

geezer661

15-03-2010, 07:18 PM

willnotbesilenced

15-03-2010, 07:56 PM

But i don't believe in punishment.

I also don't believe in a Free Will based on Fear.

I believe in Healing. But for Healing you will need patience and skills... Punishment is for the weak of heart.

Yeshua HEALED, and also said : `you will do greater things than I`

Many believe that such `gifts` (of the spirit) died out after the demise of
the disciples, but I dont believe they have. Many miricles are still reported
in these current days.

eustacekidd

15-03-2010, 08:27 PM

geezer661

15-03-2010, 09:15 PM

I'd kill myself if I believed that.

its not a belief though is it. That is wht it is

eustacekidd

15-03-2010, 10:07 PM

its not a belief though is it. That is wht it is

It goes against everything I am and what I believe, I'd die before I'd accept that.

willnotbesilenced

15-03-2010, 11:13 PM

there is no free will. We cant choose our loves/fears. We cant choose how to react in situations. We cant choose who to fall in love with. We cant choose our children.

This is just a learning experience

I tend to disagree on a few of those, but not all.

We can choose to conquer our FEARS.

I might love chocolate, but I can choose NOT to have it (but not to stop liking it)

We can choose how to react in situations..... much depends on our own disposition whether we`re a calm person or a paniky kind of person.

But no you`re right on the last two..... we cant choose who to fall in love with, NOR can we choose our children.

But we can choose to do right.... and thats the main issue here.
Everyone has that free will to do what is right - but its the heart that causes them to do whats wrong..... any wonder the Bible says `the heart is treacherous`