Why are some "religious people" anti music?

[decode reality]

Why do they tar EVERYONE with the same brush?

I wouldn't mind if they pointed out the real agents of chaos but they have a blanket condemnation of EVERYTHING. Oh, if you say "Allah" or "Jesus" and in some cases, providing you don't use musical instruments, then God will spare you.

Such utter bollocks. I can understand why people are atheists.

[merla]

Why do they tar EVERYONE with the same brush?

I wouldn't mind if they pointed out the real agents of chaos but they have a blanket condemnation of EVERYTHING. Oh, if you say "Allah" or "Jesus" and in some cases, providing you don't use musical instruments, then God will spare you.

Such utter bollocks. I can understand why people are atheists.

For Christians I think it relates back to Oliver Cromwell, he banned dancing and music, nice foods that tasted good and pretty much anything fun or enjoyable because to him you had to be miserable and sufering if you were serving God.

I believe in God myself and find that attitude baffling, music isn't evil or good in of itself, depending on the intention behind it it can be uplifting and spiritual or in the case of some song and tunes that are written with bad intentions it can be the complete oppostite. I just choose to avoid any music that doesn't feel right to me.

[decode reality]

For Christians I think it relates back to Oliver Cromwell, he banned dancing and music, nice foods that tasted good and pretty much anything fun or enjoyable because to him you had to be miserable and sufering if you were serving God.

I believe in God myself and find that attitude baffling, music isn't evil or good in of itself, depending on the intention behind it it can be uplifting and spiritual or in the case of some song and tunes that are written with bad intentions it can be the complete oppostite. I just choose to avoid any music that doesn't feel right to me.


thanks for that. It seems that Cromwell went too far to the other extreme.

"...because to him you had to be miserable and sufering if you were serving God."

That made me smile. :)

But I see this today amongst Muslims and some Christians. The music that they DO endorse, that name drops God and the prophets, happy clappy Gospel and nasheeds well,erm......some of it is just like a 'God' version of S Club 7 and Boyzone. :rolleyes:

Which is ok, if you like that kinda thang.:D

[dragon fang]

Illuminati controlled?
Brainwashing agenda?

[decode reality]

Illuminati controlled?
Brainwashing agenda?

i'm sure that some of it can be in part traced back to them....

[dragon fang]

Well, Some singers actually tried to warn us from the NWO, But they either were killed or the Illuminati got the band to fail and disband.

[phildee3]

Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

Psalm 150

[armoured_amazon]

Why do they tar EVERYONE with the same brush?

I wouldn't mind if they pointed out the real agents of chaos but they have a blanket condemnation of EVERYTHING. Oh, if you say "Allah" or "Jesus" and in some cases, providing you don't use musical instruments, then God will spare you.

Such utter bollocks. I can understand why people are atheists.

Perhaps because Lucifer was in charge of music? And because the music industry, like it or not, is satanic?

[decode reality]

Well, Some singers actually tried to warn us from the NWO, But they either were killed or the Illuminati got the band to fail and disband.

That's right.....but there are so many religious people whom don't actually care if you're writing/singing about these things - it has to have those 'divine tags' and buzz words.....

It's like when I used to watch Oprah Winfrey....my toes would curl when some member of the audience would get up there talking absolute drivel but then they'd say something like "and JESUS helped me" and everyone would applaud! The idiot had just spoken some shite but it was alright, "Jesus helped her".

[decode reality]

Perhaps because Lucifer was in charge of music? And because the music industry, like it or not, is satanic?

It's quite sad that some believe that about Lucifer and music, Amazon. I'm glad that most musicians throughout history haven't taken that belief on board.

My own take is this: The music industry is a vast and multifarious thing. At some levels, it's clear that there are malevolent or just very ignorant people guiding it. Yet I also know that any 'industry' is what we make it, what our own intent is. I don't call it 'satanic' because the satanic stuff is someone else's motivation. I'm aware but I don't focus on it, it simply isn't what I do. As long as I'm clear on what i'm about, the rest can do what it wants - and they will.

For example: The industry that deals with health and medicine has the same warped mentality running it as it runs other areas of society. But someone could want to promote health and well-being in a true, natural way, not poisoning them. That kind of person is not engaging in any kind of 'satanic industry'; quite the opposite.

[dragon fang]

When I hear Lil Wayne, Eminem or Rihanna's songs I kinda feel sad, They tell the story of how they got tricked into selling their souls.
Reptilians or demons can't take the soul be they possess their bodies and control every single action.
Other artist are either brainwashed since childhood to become stars or are pure satanists.

[armoured_amazon]

It's quite sad that some believe that about Lucifer and music, Amazon.

Why? Is it not written that he was in charge of music in heaven? Is the Baphomet representation lacking in a treble clef? I know you have a passion for music, but if you think the music industry is run by benevolent masters, you are gravely mistaken.

I'm glad that most musicians throughout history haven't taken that belief on board.

Perhaps that's because they (a) don't deal with the mainstream industry, (b) do so on their own grounds, or (c) don't place much value in their soul direction, and worldly success is more important to them than remaining true.

My own take is this: The music industry is a vast and multifarious thing. At some levels, it's clear that there are malevolent or just very ignorant people guiding it. Yet I also know that any 'industry' is what we make it, what our own intent is. I don't call it 'satanic' because the satanic stuff is someone else's motivation. I'm aware but I don't focus on it, it simply isn't what I do. As long as I'm clear on what i'm about, the rest can do what it wants - and they will.

That's your take on it, because satan's existence clearly hasn't been proven to you yet. You can't drink from a poisoned chalice and just decide not to imbibe the fluid.

For example: The industry that deals with health and medicine has the same warped mentality running it as it runs other areas of society. But someone could want to promote health and well-being in a true, natural way, not poisoning them. That kind of person is not engaging in any kind of 'satanic industry'; quite the opposite.

Well, we're talking about the entertainment industry. Humans will always rationalise and justify in order to fulfil our desires. Music itself is a gift from God. It is exploited by the enemy in order to lead us away from God. To scoff at those who would choose to set themselves apart altogether is mean-spirited. So they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Better that than to sell out their kids.

[armoured_amazon]

When I hear Lil Wayne, Eminem or Rihanna's songs I kinda feel sad, They tell the story of how they got tricked into selling their souls.
Reptilians or demons can't take the soul be they possess their bodies and control every single action.
Other artist are either brainwashed since childhood to become stars or are pure satanists.

Unfortunately, most people don't believe this. What they don't realise is, they don't need to believe it, they just need to know that the industry does.

[schaff]

Why? Is it not written that he was in charge of music in heaven? Is the Baphomet representation lacking in a treble clef? I know you have a passion for music, but if you think the music industry is run by benevolent masters, you are gravely mistaken.



Perhaps that's because they (a) don't deal with the mainstream industry, (b) do so on their own grounds, or (c) don't place much value in their soul direction, and worldly success is more important to them than remaining true.



That's your take on it, because satan's existence clearly hasn't been proven to you yet. You can't drink from a poisoned chalice and just decide not to imbibe the fluid.



Well, we're talking about the entertainment industry. Humans will always rationalise and justify in order to fulfil our desires. Music itself is a gift from God. It is exploited by the enemy in order to lead us away from God. To scoff at those who would choose to set themselves apart altogether is mean-spirited. So they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Better that than to sell out their kids.

Excellent post armoured_amazon.

[decode reality]

Why? Is it not written that he was in charge of music in heaven? Is the Baphomet representation lacking in a treble clef? I know you have a passion for music, but if you think the music industry is run by benevolent masters, you are gravely mistaken.

I didn't say it was run by benevolent people. It's a macrocosm of the world and we all know who runs that. So, in the same way as I try not to allow them to define who I am and view on life (and I think I do ok, too), I ALSO don't allow them to define me in my trade.




Perhaps that's because they (a) don't deal with the mainstream industry, (b) do so on their own grounds, or (c) don't place much value in their soul direction, and worldly success is more important to them than remaining true.

This is why I said in the earlier post that 'the music industry' is multifarious. It isn't JUST this beast that we often discuss. The industry is whatever someone wants it to be. They don't need to walk the same route as all the lost souls.



That's your take on it, because satan's existence clearly hasn't been proven to you yet. You can't drink from a poisoned chalice and just decide not to imbibe the fluid.

The existence of 'satan' is proven to me on a daily basis. I just need to look at the news. My previous response addresses what you've said here.



Well, we're talking about the entertainment industry. Humans will always rationalise and justify in order to fulfil our desires. Music itself is a gift from God. It is exploited by the enemy in order to lead us away from God. To scoff at those who would choose to set themselves apart altogether is mean-spirited. So they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Better that than to sell out their kids.

It's actually more mean spirited for a supposedly religious teaching to say that this 'gift from God' is forbidden and evil, unfairly tainting everyone who does it. I am acutely aware of the side of the industry that you refer to. And I would like others who wish to be part of it to also have that awareness. But I would NEVER set up a religious teaching that prohibited someone from such a great and healing for of expression - the art of making music.

Why? Because I am simply saying that not every artist is out there to feed and pervert the souls of humanity. Nor is every artist pushing the enemy's agenda. I personally think it's wrong that ALL artists are lumped in with the negative ones.

Baby out with the bath water is not good - moderation should be sought. Otherwise we get the ridiculous situation of people being vilified, condemned and even physically attacked because someone believes that a musician is doing something evil. These are the depths that people sink to - and I don't think God would endorse such actions.




Using your responses: ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

PS: I think my comparison to another industry was apt. There are people who strive to control the medical industry (e.g Donald Rumsfeld) who has rationalised and justified wrong to gratify his desires.

[decode reality]

Why? Is it not written that he was in charge of music in heaven? Is the Baphomet representation lacking in a treble clef? I know you have a passion for music, but if you think the music industry is run by benevolent masters, you are gravely mistaken.

I didn't respond to this at first, Amazon. Whatever has been written about Lucifer doesn't carry any weight for me at all, I know it will more fo you. Neither the treble clef stuff. Whatever anyone has written, WHOEVER WROTE IT, I have to weigh it up for myself.

These things definitely won't be in mind when I listen to beautiful, uplifting music, or when I next do some sight reading.

[merla]

Why? Is it not written that he was in charge of music in heaven? Is the Baphomet representation lacking in a treble clef? I know you have a passion for music, but if you think the music industry is run by benevolent masters, you are gravely mistaken.



Perhaps that's because they (a) don't deal with the mainstream industry, (b) do so on their own grounds, or (c) don't place much value in their soul direction, and worldly success is more important to them than remaining true.



That's your take on it, because satan's existence clearly hasn't been proven to you yet. You can't drink from a poisoned chalice and just decide not to imbibe the fluid.



Well, we're talking about the entertainment industry. Humans will always rationalise and justify in order to fulfil our desires. Music itself is a gift from God. It is exploited by the enemy in order to lead us away from God. To scoff at those who would choose to set themselves apart altogether is mean-spirited. So they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Better that than to sell out their kids.

Really good post, that's what I mean by the intent behind music making the difference to me. I can't imagine ever being without music but I can respect why some people choose to leave it well enough alone, caution is a good thing sometimes. I tend to rely on discernment to point me in the right direction and away from harmful influences.

[lcr123]

try this, stop listening to music for a few months atleast, you will notice the difference that it has on you overall, your hormonal activity etc. it's tried and tested.

[tannah]

Why do they tar EVERYONE with the same brush?

I wouldn't mind if they pointed out the real agents of chaos but they have a blanket condemnation of EVERYTHING. Oh, if you say "Allah" or "Jesus" and in some cases, providing you don't use musical instruments, then God will spare you.

Such utter bollocks. I can understand why people are atheists.

I wouldn't take too much notice of bigots and their scorning of music. If anything it is always the stuffiness of the judgmental "speakers for God" that cause kids to rebel, and if music wasn't such a powerful medium it wouldn't attract so many control freaks.

I know that God appreciated the Sex Pistols for their downright honesty, and highlighting the hipocrasy of this self rigteous system.



YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


There's no point in asking, you'll get no reply
Oh just remember I don't decide
I got no reason it's all too much
You'll always find us out to lunch

Oh we're so pretty
Oh so pretty
we're vacant
Oh we're so pretty
Oh so pretty
A vacant

Don't ask us to attend 'cos we're not all there
Oh don't pretend 'cos I don't care
I don't believe illusions 'cos too much is real
So stop you're cheap comment 'cos we know what we feel

Oh we're so pretty
Oh so pretty
we're vacant
Oh we're so pretty
Oh so pretty
we're vacant ah
But now and we don't care

There's no point in asking you'll get no reply
Oh just remember a don't decide
I got no reason it's all too much
You'll always find me out to lunch
We're out on lunch

Oh we're so pretty
Oh so pretty
we're vacant
Oh we're so pretty
Oh so pretty
we're vacant
Oh we're so pretty
Oh so pretty ah
But now and we don't care



The Sex Pistols - God Save The Queen - YouTube


God save the queen
The fascist regime
They made you a moron
Potential H-bomb

God save the queen
She ain't no human being
There is no future
In England's dreaming

Don't be told what you want
Don't be told what you need
There's no future, no future,
No future for you

God save the queen
We mean it man
We love our queen
God saves

God save the queen
'Cause tourists are money
And our figurehead
Is not what she seems

Oh God save history
God save your mad parade
Oh Lord God have mercy
All crimes are paid

When there's no future
How can there be sin
We're the flowers in the dustbin
We're the poison in your human machine
We're the future, your future

God save the queen
We mean it man
We love our queen
God saves

God save the queen
We mean it man
And there is no future
In England's dreaming

No future, no future,
No future for you
No future, no future,
No future for me

No future, no future,
No future for you
No future, no future
For you


The stuffy false christian systems are rotten stinky hipocrasy...and from the spiritual gaps they have caused has come the backlash.....and music is always more powerful a medium to help sort it out.

The Blind-Agains can't afford to see their own role in the hipocrasy.

[zetetic0void]

Why do they tar EVERYONE with the same brush?
--------------

This is a bit off the topic but..

Actually, this tendency (a habit) to make vast wide-ranging judgments is something we (including myself) all must be on guard for regarding so many subjects.

I see a ton of 'tarring everyone with the same brush' on these forums actually. I see mention of the "Jews", "the Freemasons", "the Roman Catholic Church", "The Muslims", "The Christians", etc, etc (and the intended meaning is that every single person claiming to be of those groups is identical and has fundamentally the exact same agenda, ideas, morals .... which I feel is totally incorrect).

-----------------

Anyway, it is interesting how sometimes, certain religious groups (or other situations of pressure on a person) tend to have some central authority that frowns upon music. Sometimes all music is banned entirely in some society (or just within a particular family or group)!


I think it partially stems from an over-zealous approach to the philosophical idea that "manifestations of this physical world" are ultimately false (ie, relative or not Absolute), temporary and diversions from higher realization. Also attachment to temporary things can lead to complete disaster within the person's spiritual balance if those things disappear or change (although higher realization often comes after a total spiritual disaster where one is forced to experience that complete collapse if they have clung to temporary things that have altered). So one over-bearing approach is to ban or restrict access to all attractive temporary things.

However, I feel that an iron-handed authoritative rule-based approach where things are banned under threat of punishment from authorities (ie, such as public flogging due to alcohol consumption in some societies) is not very productive in a real way.

Still within the feelings of the people, they long for music, wine, games and pleasures of this realm of temporary forms and so forcing and repressing things ultimately doesn't seem to result in much true inner realization. It appears to me to mostly just create a surface appearance of people getting the understanding that these temporary forms of this physical world are not to be held onto ... but under the surface is a repressed want for these things. They may get some ego-based boost because they can repress their desires and they can look down their noses at some "less spiritually advanced" commoner. But this is basically an ego-boost and actually counter to higher realization (ie, they are as much attached to the things they fight as people addicted to those things ... but in the opposite direction).


Truly, I feel that to really realize within yourself that these things are temporary and just forms but not things to "cling to" strongly (in a Buddhist kind of language) allows you to listen to music, play games (yes, often religions have banned many forms of games), experience pleasures without actually becoming entangled with them.


The entanglement into relative, temporary forms and the strong connection that these are really fully real and vitally important can be deadly dangerous to the spiritual experience when these forms are ruined by events or circumstances (eg, so this is why some people kill themselves when they lose everything in some stock market crash). However, if you know these forms are relative and temporary, you can mingle within these things but if they alter, you won't be trapped because you aren't relying on their continuance for your stability.

And so, I feel that outright authoritative banning or limiting by rules isn't really a full trusting of the person to really understand in themselves not to cling to these temporary things.

------------

As for people listening to music, ideally everyone of every age will make up their own minds and feelings regarding particular music. If this were the case, you might get less people wanting to hear certain popular music that is pushed by Big Money corporate interests (in my opinion). Unfortunately , many people are affected by pressure from their group and so they may not fully follow their own feelings but follow the external pressure of people in their group.

Of course, this is the danger regarding every single aspect of life that everyone must always question. The rulebook is your own feelings but society often wants you to follow the external rules.



Also, some music and songs which are projected as perfectly wonderful and positive are in my opinion just as faulty as many MTV corporate stuff. Anthems of nations are generally totally useless mind-washing nonsense in my opinion. It is rare, though, that ones' society will condemn it's national anthem - since these are tools of society to make people think a certain way - as being as destructive and dangerous as some song by Marilyn Manson or someone they deem to be a horrible influence.. I would suggest people should really look at the national anthems though, as these are really some of the most dangerous songs that affect the minds of individuals who should pay attention to their own inner feelings rather that some external dogma of nationalism or groupism.

[elirien]

Wonderful post.

[decode reality]

--------------

This is a bit off the topic but..

Actually, this tendency (a habit) to make vast wide-ranging judgments is something we (including myself) all must be on guard for regarding so many subjects.

I see a ton of 'tarring everyone with the same brush' on these forums actually. I see mention of the "Jews", "the Freemasons", "the Roman Catholic Church", "The Muslims", "The Christians", etc, etc (and the intended meaning is that every single person claiming to be of those groups is identical and has fundamentally the exact same agenda, ideas, morals .... which I feel is totally incorrect).

-----------------

Anyway, it is interesting how sometimes, certain religious groups (or other situations of pressure on a person) tend to have some central authority that frowns upon music. Sometimes all music is banned entirely in some society (or just within a particular family or group)!


I think it partially stems from an over-zealous approach to the philosophical idea that "manifestations of this physical world" are ultimately false (ie, relative or not Absolute), temporary and diversions from higher realization. Also attachment to temporary things can lead to complete disaster within the person's spiritual balance if those things disappear or change (although higher realization often comes after a total spiritual disaster where one is forced to experience that complete collapse if they have clung to temporary things that have altered). So one over-bearing approach is to ban or restrict access to all attractive temporary things.

However, I feel that an iron-handed authoritative rule-based approach where things are banned under threat of punishment from authorities (ie, such as public flogging due to alcohol consumption in some societies) is not very productive in a real way.

Still within the feelings of the people, they long for music, wine, games and pleasures of this realm of temporary forms and so forcing and repressing things ultimately doesn't seem to result in much true inner realization. It appears to me to mostly just create a surface appearance of people getting the understanding that these temporary forms of this physical world are not to be held onto ... but under the surface is a repressed want for these things. They may get some ego-based boost because they can repress their desires and they can look down their noses at some "less spiritually advanced" commoner. But this is basically an ego-boost and actually counter to higher realization (ie, they are as much attached to the things they fight as people addicted to those things ... but in the opposite direction).


Truly, I feel that to really realize within yourself that these things are temporary and just forms but not things to "cling to" strongly (in a Buddhist kind of language) allows you to listen to music, play games (yes, often religions have banned many forms of games), experience pleasures without actually becoming entangled with them.


The entanglement into relative, temporary forms and the strong connection that these are really fully real and vitally important can be deadly dangerous to the spiritual experience when these forms are ruined by events or circumstances (eg, so this is why some people kill themselves when they lose everything in some stock market crash). However, if you know these forms are relative and temporary, you can mingle within these things but if they alter, you won't be trapped because you aren't relying on their continuance for your stability.

And so, I feel that outright authoritative banning or limiting by rules isn't really a full trusting of the person to really understand in themselves not to cling to these temporary things.

------------

As for people listening to music, ideally everyone of every age will make up their own minds and feelings regarding particular music. If this were the case, you might get less people wanting to hear certain popular music that is pushed by Big Money corporate interests (in my opinion). Unfortunately , many people are affected by pressure from their group and so they may not fully follow their own feelings but follow the external pressure of people in their group.

Of course, this is the danger regarding every single aspect of life that everyone must always question. The rulebook is your own feelings but society often wants you to follow the external rules.



Also, some music and songs which are projected as perfectly wonderful and positive are in my opinion just as faulty as many MTV corporate stuff. Anthems of nations are generally totally useless mind-washing nonsense in my opinion. It is rare, though, that ones' society will condemn it's national anthem - since these are tools of society to make people think a certain way - as being as destructive and dangerous as some song by Marilyn Manson or someone they deem to be a horrible influence.. I would suggest people should really look at the national anthems though, as these are really some of the most dangerous songs that affect the minds of individuals who should pay attention to their own inner feelings rather that some external dogma of nationalism or groupism.

Cheers for that. Very clear and insightful Thanks for your contribution.

[godgoo]

I think it is because music is loud and so it continues to deliver the same old message. Which screws their bandwidth.

How can they talk about god with you, if there is noise. And you cant hear the birds, or the wind, people laughing.

How can they talk about god, when your own ears aren't listening to the summer upon us.

See you have to listen to your world and not to a CD. What they should do is walk around with sea shells, and show people that they are abscent of the lords sound. And that they should turn their music off, and listen for the many and wonderous sea shells that are all around. Just laying around, waiting for you to pick them up.

I think that will do as an explanation, why?

[decode reality]

Taken from a Myspace blog of Islamic band The Brothahood, in which they state their position on music (they don't see it as a contradiction of their faith as long as they aren't promoting sex, drugs, violence and profanity), the following excerpts are the reply from a Muslim:

"Firstly, music is, by ALL major scholars PROHIBITED, and it is also mentioned in the Quran in Surah Luqman, Ayah 2. It is only allowed for events such as Eid and major celebrations (such as weddings) but it must be limited to voices only and may include a drum which is open on one side and closed on the other (like in the olden days and even today these are widely used in Arab countries). When we are searching for Islamic rulings of issues, we should follow the MAJORITY of scholars, and these must be reputable scholars who obide by the Quran and the Sunnah. It is not appropriate to 'fatawa shop' until you find one which suits your purpose best and follow that one".

"Secondly, As Muslims, we should follow the example of our dear Prophet (saw) in all aspects and as he didn't participate in musical activities, we should not to do either. He did however allow people to celebrate by singing and poetry and they used the one sided drum as well. There are numerous 'sound' hadith on this topic".

"Thirdly, I saw in your Inside Australia interview that your stance on music is that as you are using synthesized sounds, this is permitted but when you take a look at synthesized music you will also see that these sounds are based on instruments such as piano, drums, guitar etc.. They are merely recorded sounds, not live, but they are considered music none the less. Lastly, your intention is honorable masha'Allah and in times when Muslims are being put under tremendous pressure to 'conform' to the disbelievers way of life, it is nice to see a group of young men trying to do their best to inspire the youth of today. However, there must be other ways of getting the same message across".

(PART 1 - PART 2 FOLLOWS THIS POST)

[decode reality]

PART 2:

I would like anyone who is knowledgeable in this area to answer the following:

Why is music prohibited?

Why are only certain types of musical instrument on specific occasions allowed?

The usual replies of 'because prophet Muhammad said so' or 'because it's in the Qu'ran, Allah forbids it' does not answer the question, in fact, it ducks the question. I would like to know the reasons why prophet Muhammad allegedly issued these prohibitions, as it must relate to the culture of his time. Which would go a long way to explaining why some Muslims prohibit music.

PS: The Muslim who replies says "there must be other ways of getting the same message across". He fails to see that if a positive message is successfully conveyed, the medium is irrelevant (of course, a message isn't deemed 'positive' by some very picky Muslims unless it says Allah)

To begin answering my above questions: My hunch is that on the one hand, there were some Muslims that saw music as being associated with harems and taverns (not much changed there) and wanted to take a stand against hedonism. On the other hand, it may have been that there were those who wished to suppress the pre- Islamic spiritual culture, in which music and dance was central to worship, and women as priestesses will have played an important role. These are conjectures on my part, will be studying this further.

Look forward to the response.

[unbornawakened]

Because the religious businessmen (priests, mullahs, rabbis) want you to feel miserable and turn towards their sacred texts, on which they base their business, and thus make their business thrive. Music can heal, bring tranquility or joy, uplift. Another reason is that it may be associated with pleasures, and thus with sex, again all banned so that your only refuge will be to read their sacred texts and pay them to secure a place in their imaginary after life heaven.
Why do they tar EVERYONE with the same brush?

I wouldn't mind if they pointed out the real agents of chaos but they have a blanket condemnation of EVERYTHING. Oh, if you say "Allah" or "Jesus" and in some cases, providing you don't use musical instruments, then God will spare you.

Such utter bollocks. I can understand why people are atheists.

[torus]

I don't know, I find that mainstream Churchianity is using music.....music, I might add that incorporates....THE ELECTRIC GUITAR amongst such other filthy things like 32 channel PA's as an attempt to draw in a new audience. The business I am in sees new customers almost every week who are either looking to upgrade their sound system for their business, umm, I mean "Church", or install a brand new one. Wireless systems are also experiencing a surge in sales. hey, it's what Jesus would do!!

I am "music" person who generally slams religion, so what can I say?

[tannah]

I don't know, I find that mainstream Churchianity is using music.....music, I might add that incorporates....THE ELECTRIC GUITAR amongst such other filthy things like 32 channel PA's as an attempt to draw in a new audience. The business I am in sees new customers almost every week who are either looking to upgrade their sound system for their business, umm, I mean "Church", or install a brand new one. Wireless systems are also experiencing a surge in sales. hey, it's what Jesus would do!!

I am "music" person who generally slams religion, so what can I say?

:D

I had to do the mixing desk at some christian band gig once, at a local church. At the break this preacher got up on stage and was preparing to talk to the audience, with his bible in hand. I quickly reached for the microphone level to turn him up. BUT, I went and turned the onstage monitor up instead by mistake. In a momentary lapse of reason I decided he still wasn't very loud out front, so I gave the dial max volume! It must have been thunderously loud up there for him. I realized that I'd done a minute or so before the end of his speech, but decided it was too risky to lower the monitor level and raise the mic level. Besides he would have thought I was trying to ruin his sermon.

I think he felt like he had the piercing voice of god that night. He never said a word to me afterwards. Probably thought that was the kind of volume musicians played with, and went and bought himself a guitar.

[unbornawakened]

Well, what I said only applies to Islam nowadays, which is religion nearer to its original nature. Christianity has mutated in the last 200-300 years together with the renaissance in Europe. They no longer have the means to repress people, so they must go along with them, or have their business go bankrupt - so, they now use music to make their business more attractive. All that really matters is enslaving people psychologically and making a living from that.
I don't know, I find that mainstream Churchianity is using music.....music, I might add that incorporates....THE ELECTRIC GUITAR amongst such other filthy things like 32 channel PA's as an attempt to draw in a new audience. The business I am in sees new customers almost every week who are either looking to upgrade their sound system for their business, umm, I mean "Church", or install a brand new one. Wireless systems are also experiencing a surge in sales. hey, it's what Jesus would do!!

I am "music" person who generally slams religion, so what can I say?

[theoriginalmurph]

This is a bit off the topic but..

Actually, this tendency (a habit) to make vast wide-ranging judgments is something we (including myself) all must be on guard for regarding so many subjects.

I see a ton of 'tarring everyone with the same brush' on these forums actually. I see mention of the "Jews", "the Freemasons", "the Roman Catholic Church", "The Muslims", "The Christians", etc, etc (and the intended meaning is that every single person claiming to be of those groups is identical and has fundamentally the exact same agenda, ideas, morals .... which I feel is totally incorrect).

I am so guilty of doing that from time to time...

But, for the topic of this thread: Music is powerful. Consider the origins of Rock-n-Roll, and how it has evolved. Or, think about politics. Many Republicans in America love to attribute the fall of the Berlin Wall to a speech given by Ronald Reagan, but really, who has been more influential to that end, Ronald Reagan or Roger Waters?

[decode reality]

Because the religious businessmen (priests, mullahs, rabbis) want you to feel miserable and turn towards their sacred texts, on which they base their business, and thus make their business thrive. Music can heal, bring tranquility or joy, uplift. Another reason is that it may be associated with pleasures, and thus with sex, again all banned so that your only refuge will be to read their sacred texts and pay them to secure a place in their imaginary after life heaven.


Yes. There's a correlation here to the way that the catholic church and other branches of Christianity suppressed music. Along with their extreme suppressing of anything that dealt with sensual pleasure (creating guilt and 'fear of God' amongst anyone who 'indulged') Perhaps because they were aware of the power of music to heal, soothe and uplift, they had to demonise it: "You can only be saved through believing in Allah" kind of stuff.

[knightofthegrail]

Perhaps because music is something to be cautious about; Enchantment....from the french "Chanter" meaning "to sing".....

[decode reality]

I don't know, I find that mainstream Churchianity is using music.....music, I might add that incorporates....THE ELECTRIC GUITAR amongst such other filthy things like 32 channel PA's as an attempt to draw in a new audience. The business I am in sees new customers almost every week who are either looking to upgrade their sound system for their business, umm, I mean "Church", or install a brand new one. Wireless systems are also experiencing a surge in sales. hey, it's what Jesus would do!!

I am "music" person who generally slams religion, so what can I say?

As unbornawakened mentioned, they realise that in many parts of the Western world, they world have to 'update' their presentation in order to get bums back on church seats. Or "off" them, actually! In the uk, modern churches are slick, state of the art buildings. I know of one which even has a nice cafe area (if you can sit through the piped modern day hymns and videos being played)

They have to present the services as though they are 'gigs'. Because at one level, there's no difference anyway. It's all music performance, ritual, the link between the performer and audience. As I mentioned, the muslim world has developed its equivalent in recent years, which is still seen as contentious by some orthodox muslims. Yvonne Ridley calls them 'Islamic boy bands', which I think is half true, in some instances.

[decode reality]

:D

I had to do the mixing desk at some christian band gig once, at a local church. At the break this preacher got up on stage and was preparing to talk to the audience, with his bible in hand. I quickly reached for the microphone level to turn him up. BUT, I went and turned the onstage monitor up instead by mistake. In a momentary lapse of reason I decided he still wasn't very loud out front, so I gave the dial max volume! It must have been thunderously loud up there for him. I realized that I'd done a minute or so before the end of his speech, but decided it was too risky to lower the monitor level and raise the mic level. Besides he would have thought I was trying to ruin his sermon.

I think he felt like he had the piercing voice of god that night. He never said a word to me afterwards. Probably thought that was the kind of volume musicians played with, and went and bought himself a guitar.

Good story. He probably gives sermons now brandishing a Gibson Flying 'V'. :)

[decode reality]

Well, what I said only applies to Islam nowadays, which is religion nearer to its original nature. Christianity has mutated in the last 200-300 years together with the renaissance in Europe. They no longer have the means to repress people, so they must go along with them, or have their business go bankrupt - so, they now use music to make their business more attractive. All that really matters is enslaving people psychologically and making a living from that.

Indeed. Behind these new presentations in church music are probably two sets of people. The first are those who may sincerely believe they're 'saving' the people by creating a space for them to go to church, but to do it in an entertaining way. The second set are those who just want to keep people locked down in a comfortable little sheep pen. They know that they won't rebel if they have provided a sector of the population with 'pacifiers'. I'd have to be very naive to believe that the latter don't exist.

[decode reality]

Perhaps because music is something to be cautious about; Enchantment....from the french "Chanter" meaning "to sing".....

Yes, with a link to the word 'evocation' - "to call out". Some words and sounds can call out particular energies.

I'm reminded of how during slavery, some American slave owners had passed laws, known as the Black codes, banning the use of African drums and African languages. Drums could be used for communication (to plan escape) and ritualistically to invoke the spirit of revolt. This was in the context of a Christian world - I wonder if Islam's forbidding of music is partly on the same lines?

In West Africa, particularly places like Senegal and The Gambia, music doesn't appear to carry the same religious stigmas as it does in some heavily Arab influenced Muslim nations/communities. More class/caste than anything else. But I was chatting with my friend yesterday, his wife is from Ghana. He was saying that in parts of Ghana, Saudi Arabian type muslim schools have been built. The young people who are emerging from these schools are finding themselves in serious conflict with their elders' culture, which is more traditional African spirituality based. There have even been cases of people killing each other. I'm not sure what the implications are for music making. There may be some.

[decode reality]

I am so guilty of doing that from time to time...

But, for the topic of this thread: Music is powerful. Consider the origins of Rock-n-Roll, and how it has evolved. Or, think about politics. Many Republicans in America love to attribute the fall of the Berlin Wall to a speech given by Ronald Reagan, but really, who has been more influential to that end, Ronald Reagan or Roger Waters?

Yes, we all do....I was careful to say 'why are SOME religious people' and not apply it to all.

Good example re Berlin Wall. When Martin Luther King was assassinated, they got James Brown to play a concert to cool people down....make of that what you will.

All over the world at all times, radio and tv stations have practised forms of censorship - some mild, some overt and extreme. Sometimes done by a religious ruling elite.

Here is an interesting site:

http://www.freemuse.org/sw305.asp

[decode reality]

I think many of my questions as regards Islam and music could be answered here:

http://www.freemuse.org/sw23195.asp

[1964]

Why do they tar EVERYONE with the same brush?

I wouldn't mind if they pointed out the real agents of chaos but they have a blanket condemnation of EVERYTHING. Oh, if you say "Allah" or "Jesus" and in some cases, providing you don't use musical instruments, then God will spare you.

Such utter bollocks. I can understand why people are atheists.

Hi decode,

I can't speak for all "religious people", but speaking for myself, I love music. I've just learned that music has immense powers to influence, and manipulate people. So I've learned not to trust every source of music that's out there. If you've researched the effects of music from the scientific perspective, then you know that music can be used as a very powerful tool of pursuasion/manipulation. Loving music like I do, I've experienced it myself, how music can manipulate and affect my thoughts and emotions. So for me, it isn't my religious beliefs that caused my experience with music, but music itself. My religious beliefs only confirmed what I had already experienced, and learned; and which science itself also confirms: Which is that music has the power to manipulate me if I allow it. And I'm very leary of anything that has that kind of power, and potential.

[thereisonlywe]

It is not forbidden as writing is not. Music is how people express themselves/concepts/thoughts/dreams/feelings.

Love&Peace

[decode reality]

Hi decode,

I can't speak for all "religious people", but speaking for myself, I love music. I've just learned that music has immense powers to influence, and manipulate people. So I've learned not to trust every source of music that's out there. If you've researched the effects of music from the scientific perspective, then you know that music can be used as a very powerful tool of pursuasion/manipulation. Loving music like I do, I've experienced it myself, how music can manipulate and affect my thoughts and emotions. So for me, it isn't my religious beliefs that caused my experience with music, but music itself. My religious beliefs only confirmed what I had already experienced, and learned; and which science itself also confirms: Which is that music has the power to manipulate me if I allow it. And I'm very leary of anything that has that kind of power, and potential.

Thanks for your response, 1964.

In many ways, that's where I'm coming from. I'm a musician and I can go for days without listening to it. Censorship has been used as a means of preventing alternative view but in saying this, I purposely avoid hearing many kinds of music. It's not out of any religious code of conduct.

There are many ways to look at this. Here's one aspect: Musical sound can be the catalyst for the body's production of endorphins, which stimulates good health, immunity etc. Songs can contain lyrics that impart information that enlighten us, make us aware - and even inspire our growth. Why would any religion that positions itself as the custodian of people's well being have any problems with this?

I understand that in many spiritual systems/cultures, as part of human evolution/spiritual growth (call it what you will), a key goal is to be able to get to a place in one's development where the material/5 sense world doesn't control us. To be able to shut down the left brain/external oriented consciousness in order to 'go within' in order to be able to follow the messages communicated from our 'higher self', 'true self', 'divinity' etc. In that respect, music is one of those things that can hinder it. But no less so than reading books, including holy books.

The problem is when religions take the extreme line of 'MUSIC IS EVIL', 'MUSIC CAUSES HYPOCRISY TO GROW IN THE HEART', MUSIC WAS CREATED BY THE DEVIL' and so on. In practically all cases, there is no appreciation or consideration of the positive attributes of music. It comes from an intention to control: "Obey what Allah/God says or you will burn in the fires of hell" . It doesn't come from a place of spiritual development. It can take years and even lifetimes to see through the 5 sense illusion. To suggest that kind of austere, ascetic path where music is effectively BANNED, ie 'forbidden'/haram/the devil, is ego stuff and nothing to do with growth. Those who have the position to enforce these ideas are simply in the 'control business'. Their stance on music is just one aspect of their control mechanism, which has other expressions in other areas of how they relate to people.

One of the reasons I feel so strongly about this is because I feel that these 'codes' are ineffective. Religions that are very good at dressing up man-made ways of controlling free thought/individuality as "getting people closer to God". I think Zetetic put it very well earlier on, if I may interpret: if someone really wants to listen to music and are refraining because their imam, priest or respected scholar told them music is sinful, they're kidding themselves. They are allowing their thoughts to be externally policed and usually those thoughts are ones of fear.

[decode reality]

It is not forbidden as writing is not. Music is how people express themselves/concepts/thoughts/dreams/feelings.

Love&Peace

Thank you. :)

[elirien]

It is not forbidden as writing is not. Music is how people express themselves/concepts/thoughts/dreams/feelings.

Love&Peace

Also music and writing is what we are in. Isn't it? Every individuation is a note in the grand symphony.

"Religious people" could be making music stating that they are against music. But those who are in religion are music.

[thereisonlywe]

Also music and writing is what we are in. Isn't it? Every individuation is a note in the grand symphony.

"Religious people" could be making music stating that they are against music. But those who are in religion are music.

yes

Love&Peace

[unbornawakened]

Very well said.


In many ways, that's where I'm coming from. I'm a musician and I can go for days without listening to it. Censorship has been used as a means of preventing alternative view but in saying this, I purposely avoid hearing many kinds of music. It's not out of any religious code of conduct.

There are many ways to look at this. Here's one aspect: Musical sound can be the catalyst for the body's production of endorphins, which stimulates good health, immunity etc. Songs can contain lyrics that impart information that enlighten us, make us aware - and even inspire our growth. Why would any religion that positions itself as the custodian of people's well being have any problems with this?

I understand that in many spiritual systems/cultures, as part of human evolution/spiritual growth (call it what you will), a key goal is to be able to get to a place in one's development where the material/5 sense world doesn't control us. To be able to shut down the left brain/external oriented consciousness in order to 'go within' in order to be able to follow the messages communicated from our 'higher self', 'true self', 'divinity' etc. In that respect, music is one of those things that can hinder it. But no less so than reading books, including holy books.

The problem is when religions take the extreme line of 'MUSIC IS EVIL', 'MUSIC CAUSES HYPOCRISY TO GROW IN THE HEART', MUSIC WAS CREATED BY THE DEVIL' and so on. In practically all cases, there is no appreciation or consideration of the positive attributes of music. It comes from an intention to control: "Obey what Allah/God says or you will burn in the fires of hell" . It doesn't come from a place of spiritual development. It can take years and even lifetimes to see through the 5 sense illusion. To suggest that kind of austere, ascetic path where music is effectively BANNED, ie 'forbidden'/haram/the devil, is ego stuff and nothing to do with growth. Those who have the position to enforce these ideas are simply in the 'control business'. Their stance on music is just one aspect of their control mechanism, which has other expressions in other areas of how they relate to people.

One of the reasons I feel so strongly about this is because I feel that these 'codes' are ineffective. Religions that are very good at dressing up man-made ways of controlling free thought/individuality as "getting people closer to God". I think Zetetic put it very well earlier on, if I may interpret: if someone really wants to listen to music and are refraining because their imam, priest or respected scholar told them music is sinful, they're kidding themselves. They are allowing their thoughts to be externally policed and usually those thoughts are ones of fear.

[michael christopher]

Hmm, probably because they are extremely stupid and afraid of things that broaden their horizons.

[decode reality]

Also music and writing is what we are in. Isn't it? Every individuation is a note in the grand symphony.

"Religious people" could be making music stating that they are against music. But those who are in religion are music.

Yes...I also wish that rather than saying they were against music, they had the ability (or lack of pride) to recognise music that can be positive.

Food of the wrong kind can take people "off the path" but does this mean 'food is evil'? I suppose it does. :)

[decode reality]

Very well said.

Thanks. ;)

[decode reality]

Hmm, probably because they are extremely stupid and afraid of things that broaden their horizons.

And their horizons are purely defined by the religion. Will share an anecdote on this a little later.

[1964]

Thanks for your response, 1964.

In many ways, that's where I'm coming from. I'm a musician and I can go for days without listening to it. Censorship has been used as a means of preventing alternative view but in saying this, I purposely avoid hearing many kinds of music. It's not out of any religious code of conduct.

There are many ways to look at this. Here's one aspect: Musical sound can be the catalyst for the body's production of endorphins, which stimulates good health, immunity etc. Songs can contain lyrics that impart information that enlighten us, make us aware - and even inspire our growth. Why would any religion that positions itself as the custodian of people's well being have any problems with this?

I understand that in many spiritual systems/cultures, as part of human evolution/spiritual growth (call it what you will), a key goal is to be able to get to a place in one's development where the material/5 sense world doesn't control us. To be able to shut down the left brain/external oriented consciousness in order to 'go within' in order to be able to follow the messages communicated from our 'higher self', 'true self', 'divinity' etc. In that respect, music is one of those things that can hinder it. But no less so than reading books, including holy books.

The problem is when religions take the extreme line of 'MUSIC IS EVIL', 'MUSIC CAUSES HYPOCRISY TO GROW IN THE HEART', MUSIC WAS CREATED BY THE DEVIL' and so on. In practically all cases, there is no appreciation or consideration of the positive attributes of music. It comes from an intention to control: "Obey what Allah/God says or you will burn in the fires of hell" . It doesn't come from a place of spiritual development. It can take years and even lifetimes to see through the 5 sense illusion. To suggest that kind of austere, ascetic path where music is effectively BANNED, ie 'forbidden'/haram/the devil, is ego stuff and nothing to do with growth. Those who have the position to enforce these ideas are simply in the 'control business'. Their stance on music is just one aspect of their control mechanism, which has other expressions in other areas of how they relate to people.

One of the reasons I feel so strongly about this is because I feel that these 'codes' are ineffective. Religions that are very good at dressing up man-made ways of controlling free thought/individuality as "getting people closer to God". I think Zetetic put it very well earlier on, if I may interpret: if someone really wants to listen to music and are refraining because their imam, priest or respected scholar told them music is sinful, they're kidding themselves. They are allowing their thoughts to be externally policed and usually those thoughts are ones of fear.

Hi decode,

I think I understand your love for music. I also understand your frustration in having something you love continously painted in such a dark light by so many people.

Me, I haven't been a member of any of the world's churches in more than 20 years. But every single time I want to share my faith in Jesus Christ with anyone, I first have to go through this gruelling exercise of answering for all the crimes and hypocrisy of the Catholic and Protestant churches (false churches). Most times, I never get around to talking about what it is I believe, feel, and think. The walls of false religion are so high, wide, thick - they're almost impenetrable. And that applies to both unbelievers, and the billions of people who are still members of these religions/churches.

I was originally raised in the Roman Catholic church - I left in my teens, eventually renounced it as the false religion that it is. But in all honesty, I was never told anything about music in the Catholic church - whether to listen to it, or not. Nor at home, by my parents. I was left to choose and listen to any music I liked. To give you an idea, Pink Floyd was my favourite band. After that, I enjoyed everything from rock, regae, pop, rap, etc. The only genres I never developed a taste for were classical, and heavy metal. Apart from that, I loved all music - even country :)

For a lot of years, I trusted that music was my 'friend' - it brought me immense comfort when I most needed comfort in my life. But when I reached the end of that road, I looked back and could see that music hadn't really served any good purpose in my life. It had only lured me away into escapism, where by music I was suddenly able to feel what I wanted to feel; and able to avoid feeling what I didn't want to feel. I also became aware that through music, certain thoughts and emotions had been implanted in me that I might never have thought, or felt otherwise. In short, I didn't like the affect and influence that music had, had over my life. And I got an even creepier feeling when I found all this confirmed by science itself, and then by my own faith in Jesus Christ.

I don't believe music, itself, is an evil thing. I believe it behaves as a powerful extension of the musician. Whatever and whoever the musician is, as a person, these things will express themselves through his music. And then his music will go on to influence those who listen to it. And speaking for myself, I'm so aware now that I'm living in a world that's filled with deception up to its brim. So I'm no longer willing to blindly trust all the music that's in the world, seeing as even music has been used as a tool to deceive people.

I do agree with you though - people who reject music without understanding why, and simply because they're commanded to by their religious leaders, are doing it for all the wrong reasons. In that case, I have to wonder if their religious leaders are really trying to protect their members - or only trying to control them for their own selfish purposes.

[unbornawakened]

It is true that music is a double-edge sword - one must be discriminating when choosing what music to listen to, especially those with lyrics. Listening to the lyrics of many popular songs, will condition you to think the thoughts conveyed in those songs, mostly promoting a very shallow way as the singers themselves are often young, lost, immature, and decadent. The reason I love music is that I am very careful about what music I listen to. Music without words is even more special - we are so loaded with internal thinigkin that is primarily verbal (and visual), together with manmade stimuli such a TV, internet that are also language related and visual. Music, especially pure music wisely and tastefully selected, provides a soothing, enjoyable, and healing alternative - it can even quiet the verbal mind and wash away mental troubles if listened to over an hour or longer. Music can provide direct stimulation to our feeling and emotional centers which are often neglected.

[elirien]

Yes...I also wish that rather than saying they were against music, they had the ability (or lack of pride) to recognise music that can be positive.

Food of the wrong kind can take people "off the path" but does this mean 'food is evil'? I suppose it does. :)

Yes :D It isn't about "is music good or bad" actually but rather "what is music?". Your food analogy is quite right there. Someone who doesn't know what food is defines it as such limits it as something that can enter the mouth of a body. Pretty crazy events can happen after that :D

Same goes for music. The mind is a perfect barrier without education in the matter. The apparent opposite of the "religious people" say "what so bad about say Lady Ga Ga or Norwegian Black Metal". Well what is it really? Anybody look at that both lyrically and from wave theory?

Bless you.

[decode reality]

Hi decode,

I think I understand your love for music. I also understand your frustration in having something you love continously painted in such a dark light by so many people.

Me, I haven't been a member of any of the world's churches in more than 20 years. But every single time I want to share my faith in Jesus Christ with anyone, I first have to go through this gruelling exercise of answering for all the crimes and hypocrisy of the Catholic and Protestant churches (false churches). Most times, I never get around to talking about what it is I believe, feel, and think. The walls of false religion are so high, wide, thick - they're almost impenetrable. And that applies to both unbelievers, and the billions of people who are still members of these religions/churches.

I was originally raised in the Roman Catholic church - I left in my teens, eventually renounced it as the false religion that it is. But in all honesty, I was never told anything about music in the Catholic church - whether to listen to it, or not. Nor at home, by my parents. I was left to choose and listen to any music I liked. To give you an idea, Pink Floyd was my favourite band. After that, I enjoyed everything from rock, regae, pop, rap, etc. The only genres I never developed a taste for were classical, and heavy metal. Apart from that, I loved all music - even country :)

For a lot of years, I trusted that music was my 'friend' - it brought me immense comfort when I most needed comfort in my life. But when I reached the end of that road, I looked back and could see that music hadn't really served any good purpose in my life. It had only lured me away into escapism, where by music I was suddenly able to feel what I wanted to feel; and able to avoid feeling what I didn't want to feel. I also became aware that through music, certain thoughts and emotions had been implanted in me that I might never have thought, or felt otherwise. In short, I didn't like the affect and influence that music had, had over my life. And I got an even creepier feeling when I found all this confirmed by science itself, and then by my own faith in Jesus Christ.

I don't believe music, itself, is an evil thing. I believe it behaves as a powerful extension of the musician. Whatever and whoever the musician is, as a person, these things will express themselves through his music. And then his music will go on to influence those who listen to it. And speaking for myself, I'm so aware now that I'm living in a world that's filled with deception up to its brim. So I'm no longer willing to blindly trust all the music that's in the world, seeing as even music has been used as a tool to deceive people.

I do agree with you though - people who reject music without understanding why, and simply because they're commanded to by their religious leaders, are doing it for all the wrong reasons. In that case, I have to wonder if their religious leaders are really trying to protect their members - or only trying to control them for their own selfish purposes.

Cheers 1964. With so much information out there that exposes the hidden truth about the music world and its biggest stars, it's not surprising that many will readily accept the idea that music is evil. What's needed is balance. 'Real music' gets comparatively less exposure, so people are basing their judgment of how healthy music is from the prevailing unhealthy model.

Just another concept to introduce:

We're in a very 'left brain' dominated world, the lower left hemisphere of the brain, at that. The left brain's function is to compartmentalise reality into categories and labels. It isn't able to see how various things are linked together, which is the right brain's function. Plus, it has a habit of creating labels that can misrepresent the very thing that it's labelling. This is partly due to a lack of knowledge of the thing, or it takes on board definitions by hearsay.

How does this fit with music? A religious person functioning out of the lower left brain basically does this: "religion = good" 'music = not favoured by my religion [hearsay: the person has read or heard this idea, so assumes it's true], therefore music is wrong'. The left brain would also prevent the person from seeing how music can be healing, inspiring, a catalyst for spiritual growth, because to this person, music (which they have already decided is bad) is a separate entity from all those other functions.

Luckily, I haven't met too many people who are fanatically against music. Although they are out there.

[decode reality]

It is true that music is a double-edge sword - one must be discriminating when choosing what music to listen to, especially those with lyrics. Listening to the lyrics of many popular songs, will condition you to think the thoughts conveyed in those songs, mostly promoting a very shallow way as the singers themselves are often young, lost, immature, and decadent. The reason I love music is that I am very careful about what music I listen to. Music without words is even more special - we are so loaded with internal thinigkin that is primarily verbal (and visual), together with manmade stimuli such a TV, internet that are also language related and visual. Music, especially pure music wisely and tastefully selected, provides a soothing, enjoyable, and healing alternative - it can even quiet the verbal mind and wash away mental troubles if listened to over an hour or longer. Music can provide direct stimulation to our feeling and emotional centers which are often neglected.

Classic examples of this are love songs. The words of many love songs are usually describing toxic relationships: "Baby, if you leave me, or if you don't love me, I'll die"..."I need you, or else my life isn't worth living". How many times have we heard this? They are usually the most popular! It's victim music. I was on The Specials' forum a few months ago and someone was saying how a lot of male r&b singers now sing in what he called 'victim voices'. That phrase rang very true for me.

I love instrumental music of all kinds - Miles Davis being my favourite. His life had many episodes of hard drug and alcohol addiction yet when you hear his work, it can radiate a very peaceful vibe. Which belies the notion that this can only be achieved if you live the stereotypical 'spiritual life'.

[farros]

somalian militants ban music..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/13/somalia-radio-music-ban

[decode reality]

Yes :D It isn't about "is music good or bad" actually but rather "what is music?". Your food analogy is quite right there. Someone who doesn't know what food is defines it as such limits it as something that can enter the mouth of a body. Pretty crazy events can happen after that :D

Same goes for music. The mind is a perfect barrier without education in the matter. The apparent opposite of the "religious people" say "what so bad about say Lady Ga Ga or Norwegian Black Metal". Well what is it really? Anybody look at that both lyrically and from wave theory?

Bless you.

The challenge is to go past that fixed idea that some people have that music is forbidden. But that's nigh on impossible because they behind their notions on music are a belief system which completely dominates their thinking and identity.

It's hard to imagine some of the households where music really IS forbidden. Not that I don't mind a silent house, but music is such an outlet for our personalities, what kind of people can they be? When I'm not posting, I'm usually practising or doodling away on my keyboards.

I know what you mean with the Lady Gaga example. Some of the stuff I listen to might be, from an anti music person's point of view, the complete opposite of what they stand for. What does concern me is some of the stuff that young people get exposed to. I heard Rihanna's 'Rude Boy' playing in a taxi a few weeks back and I was staggered by the lyrical content. I heard one or two rude songs growing up, but that song is beyond the pale.

[decode reality]

somalian militants ban music..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/13/somalia-radio-music-ban

I remember this, yes.

It's like one of Chris Morris's spoof stories on The Day Today, isn't it? Except it's real. Even the best satirist could not come up with this stuff.

[elirien]

The challenge is to go past that fixed idea that some people have that music is forbidden. But that's nigh on impossible because they behind their notions on music are a belief system which completely dominates their thinking and identity.

It's hard to imagine some of the households where music really IS forbidden. Not that I don't mind a silent house, but music is such an outlet for our personalities, what kind of people can they be? When I'm not posting, I'm usually practising or doodling away on my keyboards.

I know what you mean with the Lady Gaga example. Some of the stuff I listen to might be, from an anti music person's point of view, the complete opposite of what they stand for. What does concern me is some of the stuff that young people get exposed to. I heard Rihanna's 'Rude Boy' playing in a taxi a few weeks back and I was staggered by the lyrical content. I heard one or two rude songs growing up, but that song is beyond the pale.

Well the children of these people will become probably coke sniffing rappers or something in that area. Suppression leads only to a harder release (kind of like shaking a can of soda).

We played guitar both in bands and "solo" for quite sometime and it is really a perfect mirror in retrospect. It is a better outlet then writing most of the time because it takes you in virtual reality or the experience of the musician directly.

Young people (at least some of them) are learning what they are listening to with the posting of "THE ILLUMINATI SLAVE RHIANNA" youtube videos quite well. They will also learn that what all events are vibration by that. It is a good thing.

Some beings who experienced higher forms of consciousness or vibration tell about beings who speak in music. How about that? We would recommend watching "Other Worlds" by Jan Kounen.

[decode reality]

Well the children of these people will become probably coke sniffing rappers or something in that area. Suppression leads only to a harder release (kind of like shaking a can of soda).

We played guitar both in bands and "solo" for quite sometime and it is really a perfect mirror in retrospect. It is a better outlet then writing most of the time because it takes you in virtual reality or the experience of the musician directly.

Young people (at least some of them) are learning what they are listening to with the posting of "THE ILLUMINATI SLAVE RHIANNA" youtube videos quite well. They will also learn that what all events are vibration by that. It is a good thing.

Some beings who experienced higher forms of consciousness or vibration tell about beings who speak in music. How about that? We would recommend watching "Other Worlds" by Jan Kounen.

It's often the case that when people are prohibited from something, even with the best intention, it only creates more allure for what is forbidden. People from homes that are very strict and inflexible can turn out people who indulge in everything that they can find, as you've pointed out.

In the music case, it creates a kind of schizoid mentality. Think about all the popular soul singers who emerged in post WW2 America, Marvin Gaye, Al Green and many others. They were almost all unanimously raised in churches, often with preachers for fathers. Some of these stars always felt ambivalent about 'secular music' and the ravages of the music world often drove them back to church, to sing gospel again.

Hopefully, young people are clear headed enough to be able to see through the overt programming that is directed at them. That's the good thing about the internet, it allows the alternative viewpoint to be aired.

EDIT: btw, I do a lot of solo piano stuff also. It's the ultimate challenge, for a musician to be able to perform solo. It can be like meditation. And when it works, it's very satisfying.

[eternal_spirit]

Protestants banned Irish music some centuries ago when they invaded and laid down their laws in Ireland. Of course they couldn't kill the spirit and some of the best music in the world lives on.

The Chieftains - The Morning Dew - YouTube
Old Hag You Have Killed Me - The Bothy Band - YouTube

The Kesh Jig - Bothy Band - YouTube

[eternal_spirit]

I go for instrumental stuff mostly. Now and then I listen to other stuff. I'll go weeks without listening to anything at times.

Spending a lot of time alone listening to allsorts over the years you get to know which stuff is right to suit or enhance your moods. I used to be like a music junkie, always listening or playing.

[eternal_spirit]

Dewi Saraswat Hindu Goddess of science and beauty

http://thedesertofman.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/sara.JPG?w=284&h=363


Could she be similar to the Muses?

http://budak.blogs.com/the_annotated_budak/images/goddess_with_script.jpg (http://budak.blogs.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/goddess_with_script.jpg)


The Hindu Goddess of Science and Beauty, Dewi Saraswati, holding a chain of beads and a lontar (a script written on palm leaves).

The Muses
http://jarrod.stanley4.com/GreekWebPage/muses.jpg
The Muses were the daughters of Zeus and Mnemosyne. There were nine of them, each presiding over a different category of human culture.

Calliope | Muse of Epic Poetry

Clio | Muse of History

Euterpe | Muse of Lyric Poetry

Melpomene | Muse of Tragedy

Terpsichore | Muse of Choral Dance and Song

Erato | Muse of Love Poetry

Polyhymnia | Muse of Sacred Poetry

Urania | Muse of Astronomy

Thalia | Muse of Comedy

[eternal_spirit]

Muse where the modern day word Muso came from ? which means musician.

I know some Indian music usually Zitar they play some pieces as improvisation on a particular set of scales/notes, called "ragas", and the better the musician is at improvisation and creating good music it is then considered divine and inspired by deity.

It is an art mastered by the best musicians and their ability to create many varied sounds.

The Greeks held their Olympic games and also used to have music competitions, based on which musicians could create the best music and improvisations like the Indian "Ragas."

Maybe the Greek Muses and the Hindu deities are said to help inspire the musicians? A mascot, good luck charm, rituals for invoking the Muses and their help? or the process of creating the best music and the state of mind required/attained is symbolic of the musicians connecting to the divine deities and creation.

Not to mention Robert Johnson the blues player who done a deal with the devil at the cross roads, his hand could be said to have been guided by Satan haha. Jazz and blues can also be played by improvising based on scales same as the Indian "Ragas"

Johnson met the devil at the crossroads the devil took his guitar tuned it differently and handed it back to Johnson, that helped him play a bit different and more original than other blues players.

It's just a myth imo, the tuning may have been known by other blues players , and they only passed it on to those they trusted/friends etc.
A possible reason?
The music biz - competition between blues players to get the gig, record deal etc, those who knew the tunings may have had the edge and gotten the deals/gigs etc.

Although some of the best bluesmen died in strange ways (yikes, Devil's payback day lol)

[eternal_spirit]

Damn those Pagans for making beautiful music huh"

the Koran has hate speech against music and various evil punishments for musicians! I take great offence to this being a musician.

it is permissible to destroy musical instruments, such as the tanboor [a stringed instrument similar to a mandolin]. This is the view of Maalik and is the more famous of the two views narrated from Ahmad. (al-Majmoo', 28/113). Ibn Abi Shaybah (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported that a man broke a mandolin belonging to another man, and the latter took his case to Shurayh. But Shurayh did not award him any compensation, i.e., he did not make the first man pay the cost of the mandolin, because it was haram and had no value. (al-Musannaf, 5/395).
What Allaah has prescribed for men is training in the use of instruments of war, such as target practice or learning to ride horses and competing in that, using spears, shields, tanks, airplanes and other things such as cannons, machine guns, bombs and anything else that may help jihaad for the sake of Allaah."
A Haram (Prohibited) Profession
It is haram (prohibited) to be work as a salesperson in a store that sells musical instruments. It is permissible to sell an instrument for its parts, such as to have it melted down, etc. It is of course, as shown by the evidences above, haram to be a musician.
Al-Baghawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) stated in a fatwa that it is haram to sell all kinds of musical instruments such as mandolins, flutes, etc. Then he said: If the images are erased and the musical instruments are altered, then it is permissible to sell their parts, whether they are silver, iron, wood or whatever. (Sharh al-Sunnah, 8/28)

A Haram (Prohibited) Profession
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...8&postcount=56 (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1177698&postcount=56)


Irish Guitar Reel Lead the Knave/Bunker Hill - YouTube



I love these guys version

Irish Guitar Reel Lead the Knave/Bunker Hill

[eternal_spirit]

Oops here's the rest of that article

It is haram (prohibited) to be work as a salesperson in a store that sells musical instruments. It is permissible to sell an instrument for its parts, such as to have it melted down, etc. It is of course, as shown by the evidences above, haram to be a musician.
Al-Baghawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) stated in a fatwa that it is haram to sell all kinds of musical instruments such as mandolins, flutes, etc. Then he said: If the images are erased and the musical instruments are altered, then it is permissible to sell their parts, whether they are silver, iron, wood or whatever. (Sharh al-Sunnah, 8/28)

Effeminate Men
Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made allowances for certain types of musical instruments at weddings and the like, and he made allowances for women to play the daff at weddings and on other joyful occasions. But the men at his time did not play the daff or clap with their hands. It was narrated in al-Saheeh that he said: "Clapping is for women and tasbeeh (saying Subhaan Allaah) is for men." And he cursed women who imitate men and men who imitate women.
Because singing and playing the daff are things that women do, the Salaf (men of the far past) used to call any man who did that a mukhannath (effeminate man), and they used to call male singers effeminate - and how many of them there are nowadays! It is well known that the Salaf said this.
Related Links:
Listening to Music and Singing (http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/1716/music.html)
Music is Haram (http://www.themuslimwoman.com/beware/MusicisHaram.htm)
The Four Imams on Music (http://islamselect.com/en/mat/46100)




Get rid of those Michael Jackson CD's


If you had a large music collection as a kaffir, have a collection just as large, but instead fill your library with Islamic audio tapes and lectures.
Think about how many hundreds or maybe even thousands of dollars you've spent on music cd's and tapes that you could now spend on a home Islamic library.



Damn didn't they almost get Jacko to convert to Islam in the end?


I know his brother did.
Yup give all your money to Islamic jihadists who would destroy our music and probably kill me for playing guitars if they had their way!

[decode reality]

Muse where the modern day word Muso came from ? which means musician.

I know some Indian music usually Zitar they play some pieces as improvisation on a particular set of scales/notes, called "ragas", and the better the musician is at improvisation and creating good music it is then considered divine and inspired by deity.

It is an art mastered by the best musicians and their ability to create many varied sounds.

The Greeks held their Olympic games and also used to have music competitions, based on which musicians could create the best music and improvisations like the Indian "Ragas."

Maybe the Greek Muses and the Hindu deities are said to help inspire the musicians? A mascot, good luck charm, rituals for invoking the Muses and their help? or the process of creating the best music and the state of mind required/attained is symbolic of the musicians connecting to the divine deities and creation.

Not to mention Robert Johnson the blues player who done a deal with the devil at the cross roads, his hand could be said to have been guided by Satan haha. Jazz and blues can also be played by improvising based on scales same as the Indian "Ragas"

Johnson met the devil at the crossroads the devil took his guitar tuned it differently and handed it back to Johnson, that helped him play a bit different and more original than other blues players.

It's just a myth imo, the tuning may have been known by other blues players , and they only passed it on to those they trusted/friends etc.
A possible reason?
The music biz - competition between blues players to get the gig, record deal etc, those who knew the tunings may have had the edge and gotten the deals/gigs etc.

Although some of the best bluesmen died in strange ways (yikes, Devil's payback day lol)

The deities.....a lot of the ancient world have related deities, with the same attributes. With the Hindu and Greek ones, I'm sure this is the case, plus Alexander's invasion of India might have had some later cultural influence. Around the same time as ancient India had its high cultures/civilisations, there were the Egyptians and Chinese saying the same thing about music - they each tightly regulated, believing that to change the music changed the morality of the nation. The Greeks later said the same thing and they could have gotten some of their ideas from India as well as Egypt.

Interesting how you've connected the ancient invoking of deities with the Robert Johnson thing....the Johnson story could be a myth, but it's also likely to be true....there was a lot of African influence still in deep south culture, and Elegba is the deity symbolic of 'crossroads situations'....the christians at that time may have been conditioned to view anything that wasn't church based as 'the devil'.

[elirien]

It's often the case that when people are prohibited from something, even with the best intention, it only creates more allure for what is forbidden. People from homes that are very strict and inflexible can turn out people who indulge in everything that they can find, as you've pointed out.

In the music case, it creates a kind of schizoid mentality. Think about all the popular soul singers who emerged in post WW2 America, Marvin Gaye, Al Green and many others. They were almost all unanimously raised in churches, often with preachers for fathers. Some of these stars always felt ambivalent about 'secular music' and the ravages of the music world often drove them back to church, to sing gospel again.

It happens with everything in duality. The most obvious example of what you've just stated are children of school teachers. Most of them are quite the mess (we have to know because we thought we were one). That what kills it is the explanation, the meaning, the source, the truth. After you know what music is and what you are there is no more good and bad music. Listened to Marvin Gaye for a while. Was pretty good and relaxing.


Hopefully, young people are clear headed enough to be able to see through the overt programming that is directed at them. That's the good thing about the internet, it allows the alternative viewpoint to be aired.

EDIT: btw, I do a lot of solo piano stuff also. It's the ultimate challenge, for a musician to be able to perform solo. It can be like meditation. And when it works, it's very satisfying.

They are and will be. Resistance is futile :D

Solo music is quite awesome but after awhile you won't need any instruments to make music and this is not some romantic analogy. If you observe what goes internally while you play you can be the master of your internal processes without the use of any instrument be it a musical instrument or any other.

Bless you.

[decode reality]

It happens with everything in duality. The most obvious example of what you've just stated are children of school teachers. Most of them are quite the mess (we have to know because we thought we were one). That what kills it is the explanation, the meaning, the source, the truth. After you know what music is and what you are there is no more good and bad music. Listened to Marvin Gaye for a while. Was pretty good and relaxing.



They are and will be. Resistance is futile :D

Solo music is quite awesome but after awhile you won't need any instruments to make music and this is not some romantic analogy. If you observe what goes internally while you play you can be the master of your internal processes without the use of any instrument be it a musical instrument or any other.

Bless you.

Interesting story: I'm a big Miles Davis fan. One of the musicians in his bands, Keith Jarret, spoke about how Miles' sound was so pure that it "always came from silence". He had the ability to sometimes create a still, timeless feeling in his playing that was akin to silence (helped also by the great bands he assembled and the compositions. I've listened to shakuhachi music from Japan, which I believe is linked to Buddhist temple music, and the use of space in the music sounds like nothing else except Miles.

I bought all Miles' albums in the 80s. I used to jokingly say to a friend of mine that the next album Miles releases will be pure silence and that will be it. Of course, if that REALLY happened, everyone would have taken the album back to the store - with me at the front of the queue! :D

About 4 years ago, I read a GREAT biog on Miles by Paul Tingen. He releates an anecdote told to him by a Buddhist friend of Miles. Just before he died, she dreamed that she had put an album of his on the turntable, and it was just silence. Obviously this was the spirit's way of letting her know that he was about to pass, but it reminded me of my own 'silence' analogy.