9 11 might just be like jfk theory?

[clint web]

I'm a believer that 9 11 was an inside job, but do you think, like me, that in 40 or 50 years, people will still be just speculating about it in the same way that we ponder over Kennedy and lee Harvey Oswald?

I'll be honest now and say that my heart has gone out of this quest for truth. It seems that nothing will ever come out in the open. The Illuminati are just too powerful :(

Either that, or it was in fact terrorists and there is nothing to expose?

Your thoughts?

[crowd control]

in 40 or 50 years the nature of the human exsistance shall be such that these questions will be no more than dim and distance reflections of a bygone reality

[thisisactuallymyluciddream]

in 40 or 50 years the nature of the human exsistance shall be such that these questions will be no more than dim and distance reflections of a bygone reality

Cheers.
:D

[king]

I'm a believer that 9 11 was an inside job, but do you think, like me, that in 40 or 50 years, people will still be just speculating about it in the same way that we ponder over Kennedy and lee Harvey Oswald?


if the truth did not come out within months -- it will not come out until old generations are gone and new generations have forgotten that it ever happened.


I'll be honest now and say that my heart has gone out of this quest for truth. It seems that nothing will ever come out in the open. The Illuminati are just too powerful :(


quest for the truth should never stop. if it does -- "they" win. and "they" are as powerful as we allow them to be in our minds.

[joyful]

I'm a believer that 9 11 was an inside job, but do you think, like me, that in 40 or 50 years, people will still be just speculating about it in the same way that we ponder over Kennedy and lee Harvey Oswald?

That is one option the perps are betting on, associating 9/11 with JFK and just stringing it out, but JFK was then, 9/11 is now. Thanks to the internet, the people can talk with each other, instead of only receiving 'facts' and opinion from the mainstream press like the case was with JFK.

[hagbard_celine]

I'm glad to say that 9/11 is like the JFK assassination because it's had a similar effect in making people question the govt and official media stories. It's made it acceptable to be a "conspiracy theorist"!

[narcolepticwatchman]

The parrallels between 9/11 and jFk are scary. They used the exact same tactics to brainwash the populous in both events.

Oh and they used video fakery for that cover up as well.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6264396057713515921

[dusthead]

I'm a believer that 9 11 was an inside job, but do you think, like me, that in 40 or 50 years, people will still be just speculating about it in the same way that we ponder over Kennedy and lee Harvey Oswald?

I'll be honest now and say that my heart has gone out of this quest for truth. It seems that nothing will ever come out in the open. The Illuminati are just too powerful :(

Either that, or it was in fact terrorists and there is nothing to expose?

Your thoughts?

I agree. It's already like the JFK assassination. I have not seen anyone prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's all still hypothesis and comparisons to other vaguely similar events. If anyone had reallysolved the 'mystery' we would no longer be arguing about it.

Trouble is there is very little we can compare the events of 9/11 to.

As there were a lot of unprecidented events on 9/11, there is an absolute ton of stuff that will remain unresolved until someone flies a couple more planes into the side of a big building to see what happens (and I doubt that will happen any time soon).

Consequently the argument is now completely static and redundant.

People should concentrate on what everyone knows for certain. For example, there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. This is one of the most absurd conspiracies in recent times and idiotic politicians should be held accountable, but what are we debating here? The existence of holographic planes. Who really gives a fuck? What is any of this acheiving?

It just goes round and round in circles until anger and frustration takes hold and the abusive posts start all over again.

It's a complete distraction from more pressing matters.

[redman]

I agree. It's already like the JFK assassination. I have not seen anyone prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's all still hypothesis and comparisons to other vaguely similar events. If anyone had reallysolved the 'mystery' we would no longer be arguing about it.

Trouble is there is very little we can compare the events of 9/11 to.

As there were a lot of unprecidented events on 9/11, there is an absolute ton of stuff that will remain unresolved until someone flies a couple more planes into the side of a big building to see what happens (and I doubt that will happen any time soon).

Consequently the argument is now completely static and redundant.

People should concentrate on what everyone knows for certain. For example, there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. This is one of the most absurd conspiracies in recent times and idiotic politicians should be held accountable, but what are we debating here? The existence of holographic planes. Who really gives a fuck? What is any of this acheiving?

It just goes round and round in circles until anger and frustration takes hold and the abusive posts start all over again.

It's a complete distraction from more pressing matters.



Don't you think it was actually planned for no WMD to be found in Iraq. So it seems a bit less calulated to the public. So they can turn round and say " oh we are human and made a mistake " instead of actually coming across like they had planned to invade over a decade before.


Because I am not being funny, if they really wanted to make out Sadam had WMD. Then believe me it would of been planted there.

[dusthead]

Don't you think it was actually planned for no WMD to be found in Iraq. So it seems a bit less calulated to the public. So they can turn round and say " oh we are human and made a mistake " instead of actually coming across like they had planned to invade over a decade before.


Because I am not being funny, if they really wanted to make out Sadam had WMD. Then believe me it would of been planted there.

Come now.

The fact that weapons were not planted there, just goes to show how difficult it is to maniupulate events.

Even when politicians have handed everyone conclusive proof that they are complete power hungry idiots, people still see yet another conspiracy.

This is the age we live in.

Sometimes the level of fear, mistrust and paranoia is so great I feel the Islamic Radicals may well have been behind 9/11, as that mindset is their end-goal - the mistrust of Western society. No-one here even mentions the Islamic Radical set, and their politics are just as nasty as the neo-consevatives.

[matrix911]

I'm a believer that 9 11 was an inside job, but do you think, like me, that in 40 or 50 years, people will still be just speculating about it in the same way that we ponder over Kennedy and lee Harvey Oswald?

I'll be honest now and say that my heart has gone out of this quest for truth. It seems that nothing will ever come out in the open. The Illuminati are just too powerful :(

Either that, or it was in fact terrorists and there is nothing to expose?

Your thoughts?

The difference between 911 and jfk is that THIS TIME around, failure of the people to bring the perps to justice will lead to the peoples and modern civilizations downfall. The world as you know it doesn't exist in 50 years let alone probably within the next 2 to 5 as the people are led to a slaughter like sheep.

911 set events in motion that are more and more becoming almost impossible to avert the longer the LIE lives and the people do nothing to stop or bring the perpetrators to justice. The people either rise up and take action, or prepare to accept the consequences of doing nothing.

Its truly sad that MOST feel or have the attitude you do... but its even more tragic and dangerous that this mindset will be a major factor in contributing to whats about to be the darkest period in human history where the NWO acheives its goals, Martial law is forced upon the people, and unimaginable hell on earth begins as mankind enters the age of nuclear terrorism.

This generation has only 2 choices as i see it:

1. take action to stop the above future.
2. start preparing for the above future for lack of action.



"Evil flourishes when good people do nothing"


http://www.sollog.com/pro1/stopnukes.txt
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6206770/The-Terra-Papers-Hopi-Prophecy
http://davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=606133&highlight=sollog#post606133

[matrix911]

I have not seen anyone prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's all still hypothesis and comparisons to other vaguely similar events. If anyone had reallysolved the 'mystery' we would no longer be arguing about it..


no ones proven ANYTHING beyond a shadow of a doubt?

Are you serious right now? LoL

On the contrary...more than enough proof beyond a doubt and enough of the mystery for all intents an purposes, HAS BEEN solved imo.

The only ones who disagree are either in denial, haven't done enough research, or part of the cover-up.

Just because this conspiracy isn't officially acknowledged by the MSM, the people or Govt, doesn't mean proof beyond a doubt hasn't been proven.

There's more than enough evidence and proof beyond a doubt that any court of law would be able to convict on.

The difference or problem is that the System upon which the LAW is based and these "courts" operate, are corrupt and controlled by that System.

iow, you can't prosecute a system thats above the law and is controlled by the very people that can manipulate it.

if there's any real reason the perps won't be brought to justice, is because they control or ARE the SYSTEM.

[dusthead]

The difference between 911 and jfk is that THIS TIME around, failure of the people to bring the perps to justice will lead to the peoples and modern civilizations downfall. The world as you know it doesn't exist in 50 years let alone probably within the next 2 to 5 as the people are led to a slaughter like sheep.

911 set events in motion that are more and more becoming almost impossible to avert the longer the LIE lives and the people do nothing to stop or bring the perpetrators to justice. The people either rise up and take action, or prepare to accept the consequences of doing nothing.

Its truly sad that MOST feel or have the attitude you do... but its even more tragic and dangerous that this mindset will be a major factor in contributing to whats about to be the darkest period in human history where the NWO acheives its goals, Martial law is forced upon the people, and unimaginable hell on earth begins as mankind enters the age of nuclear terrorism.

This generation has only 2 choices as i see it:

1. take action to stop the above future.
2. start preparing for the above future for lack of action.



"Evil flourishes when good people do nothing"


http://www.sollog.com/pro1/stopnukes.txt
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6206770/The-Terra-Papers-Hopi-Prophecy
http://davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=606133&highlight=sollog#post606133

There will be no final crushing armageddon, no flourishing Orwellian society and no eden where the 'enlightened' prevail over the 'unenlightened'.

As history has shown, nothing stays the same for very long.

The Bush administration was a failure and will be remembered as one of the worst governments in American history. Neo conservatism is on it's last legs. We are entering a new phase of politics and at this stage it's hard to say what will happen.

There will be ups and downs - same as always, but with the twisted American perspective on the New World Order falling on it's own sword, it's fair to say that the notion of one global superpower ruling over everyone has failed once again.

Someone will have another pop at it in a few years - It won't work. It never does, even when it's ideals are noble as in the case of Russia. You can't control THAT many people. They are all too different and they respond to wildly different stimulus. A lot them don't even read the tabloids or own televisions and the internet is WAY too generous with freedom of information.

Despite the hopes and optimism of people on this board, national populations simply are not THAT stupid, as to be drawn into a game of mind-control where they do everything on auto-pilot.

George Orwell's 1984 largely remains a work of fiction, with a few significant details. It's a cracking read and a great book, but his vision was FAR more oppressive than most Westernised countries.

The Jehovas Witnesses are wrong, as are the Christian Scientists and almost every other group who rub their hands in glee at the prospect of all the 'stupid masses' being wiped out by mankind's corruption.

[clint_giles]

no way

Im gonna do everything in my own power to help that this does not happen
and i think their are alot of other people with the same hope and change.(sorry for the pun)

[matrix911]

There will be no final crushing armageddon, no flourishing Orwellian society and no eden where the 'enlightened' prevail over the 'unenlightened'.


when cnn first reports Israel or US city was vaporized in an instant, i look forward to seeing your follow-up post.


As history has shown, nothing stays the same for very long.Despite the hopes and optimism of people on this board, national populations simply are not THAT stupid,

on the contrary, mankind continues to repeat its lessons over and over since it doesn't seem to ever learn. For all intents and purposes, The more things change, the more they've stayed the same.

and to say people aren't that stupid, is quite comical really.

they ARE.

and MOST of this generation has to be the most ignorant and retarded both intellectually and spiritually, of them all.


The Jehovas Witnesses are wrong, as are the Christian Scientists and almost every other group who rub their hands in glee at the prospect of all the 'stupid masses' being wiped out by mankind's corruption.

christians, muslims and jews from the jehovas witnesses to the mormons to hamas and plo etc etc are all wrong and filled with hate and evil.

whats about to occur on this planet will mostly be the result of mankinds retarded concept of god as nukes are lobbed at each other in the name of their "god".

glad you're such an optimist.

but that won't be enough to avert the path we're on.

and the one thing most should be concerned about the most is how near the age of nuke terrorism is.

[gribz]

I'll be honest now and say that my heart has gone out of this quest for truth. It seems that nothing will ever come out in the open. The Illuminati are just too powerful :(



What you talkin about, the truth is already out :)

Its just all about waking the rest of the sheeple up.

The problem of waiting 40 years for truth is the next few generations dont actually care too much about some history before their time, yet when comparing and showing these situations have happended time after time people just cant get their head round their own establishment would do such things.

[onourwayto2012]

The problem is...they have this down to an exact science...they have been at this for hundreds, thousands, or more years... They have responses ready for any revelations we come up with.... as well as being masters of mind conrtol in both obvious and very subtle ways..... I mean why is it that thousands of brilliant scientists, politicians(well there's a few who are smart), artists, entertainers, philosophers, humanitarians....and blah blah, many others cannot see or admit to the sheer ridiculousness of the "OS".... it's because they are SO damn good at what they do and when that doesn't work they have the total fear and intimidation backup..... however the reason that continuing the 9/11 probe...even the most out there scenarios is that should one happen to be true the implications would be incredible.... so I don't buy the sweep 9/11 under the rug and deal with todays issues..... 9/11 is THE smoking gun of the state of earth as we know it......whether it's technology, media, hypnosis, other dimensional intervention, military secrets, bloodlines, satanic rituals....and all the other shit we discuss here at the DI forum.......yeah whatever the truth is about 9/11.... it would blow the doors off...if it ever manag ed to escape the clutches of the media/police/gov't alliance

[matrix911]

The problem is...they have this down to an exact science...they have been at this for hundreds, thousands, or more years... They have responses ready for any revelations we come up with.... as well as being masters of mind conrtol in both obvious and very subtle ways..... I mean why is it that thousands of brilliant scientists, politicians(well there's a few who are smart), artists, entertainers, philosophers, humanitarians....and blah blah, many others cannot see or admit to the sheer ridiculousness of the "OS".... it's because they are SO damn good at what they do and when that doesn't work they have the total fear and intimidation backup..... however the reason that continuing the 9/11 probe...even the most out there scenarios is that should one happen to be true the implications would be incredible.... so I don't buy the sweep 9/11 under the rug and deal with todays issues..... 9/11 is THE smoking gun of the state of earth as we know it......whether it's technology, media, hypnosis, other dimensional intervention, military secrets, bloodlines, satanic rituals....and all the other shit we discuss here at the DI forum.......yeah whatever the truth is about 9/11.... it would blow the doors off...if it ever manag ed to escape the clutches of the media/police/gov't alliance

exactly!

911 is the GENESIS and catalyst for the most dangerous age in all human history. It has officially set in motion events that will soon bring about devices that can destroy CITIES and NATIONS. If those who perpetrated 911 can get away with such evil and the people so blind as not to see it or have the means or ability to bring them to justice, anyone who thinks they won't do it again or nothing that bad can happen again, is a fool, not to mention that nation DOOMED.

So yeah, lets all sit around and argue semantics and technicalities about how there's nothing suspicious about 911 and not enough proof bla bla bla,,, while the perpetrators laugh and continue plotting the next 911 which will make it look like a day at disneyland.

yea, lets forget about it... it was 8 years ago... its no big deal those perpetrators are above the law and still control the most powerful nation, media and military on earth. what a waste of time it is to investigate the most blatant and obvious crime ever perpetrated against mankind that fabricated a lie called the WAR ON TERROR which will never end until nearly 6 billion on this planet are dead.

yep, nothing to be worried about. Our children and their children will be fine.

Lets just move on to more important things. :rolleyes:

[john white]

I'm a believer that 9 11 was an inside job, but do you think, like me, that in 40 or 50 years, people will still be just speculating about it in the same way that we ponder over Kennedy and lee Harvey Oswald?

I'll be honest now and say that my heart has gone out of this quest for truth. It seems that nothing will ever come out in the open. The Illuminati are just too powerful :(

Either that, or it was in fact terrorists and there is nothing to expose?

Your thoughts?

The PTB are certainly doing their damnest to make it that way, and in the case of Fetzer and Killtown, may even be using some of the same assets

[decode reality]

I'm a believer that 9 11 was an inside job, but do you think, like me, that in 40 or 50 years, people will still be just speculating about it in the same way that we ponder over Kennedy and lee Harvey Oswald?

I'll be honest now and say that my heart has gone out of this quest for truth. It seems that nothing will ever come out in the open. The Illuminati are just too powerful :(

Either that, or it was in fact terrorists and there is nothing to expose?

Your thoughts?

Good post. I think we are already at that stage 40 or 50 years in advance. The mainstream media every now and again will pose the question of 'Was it an inside job?' in small doses- nothing like the weight of information and study as found on this forum and others. But it's nothing more than a parlour game. It's largely presented as a topic isolated from other factors, i.e. if they really were about exposing 9/11 and 7/7 the media would have to point the finger at its own involvement.

[redman]

Come now.

The fact that weapons were not planted there, just goes to show how difficult it is to maniupulate events.

Even when politicians have handed everyone conclusive proof that they are complete power hungry idiots, people still see yet another conspiracy.

This is the age we live in.

Sometimes the level of fear, mistrust and paranoia is so great I feel the Islamic Radicals may well have been behind 9/11, as that mindset is their end-goal - the mistrust of Western society. No-one here even mentions the Islamic Radical set, and their politics are just as nasty as the neo-consevatives.



Are you talking about the same Islamic radicals that were all funded and working with the CIA at some point. Actually created by the CIA. So please don't even go there.

Listen mate.. it's not about being paranoid, It's called researching looking at what the government are saying and then coming to the conclusion that only a brain dead fuck wit would buy that shit. Then look at some of theories flying about and some agree with and some I don't, but it all comes back to there is no fucking way on this earth that the official story is plausible.

[matrix911]

The mainstream media every now and again will pose the question of 'Was it an inside job?' in small doses- nothing like the weight of information and study as found on this forum and others. But it's nothing more than a parlour game. if they really were about exposing 9/11 and 7/7 the media would have to point the finger at its own involvement.

hmmm... I think you've hit the nail on the head... thats always been obvious, but almost too obvious that it really didn't hit me as to how huge that simple point is which is essentially the central reason for why most (who get their news, info and truth, reality), will never accept or ever be exposed to the truth of 911 on a mass scale... nor will or can any real judicial prosecution ever take place.

the media can never allow it to since any serious investigation by them would implicate them along with the perps.

the msm are the buffer, gatekeepers and fail safe for the perps so those who run and control the media and gov have essetially merged into ONE faction
which create the LAWS and REALITY (matrix) the sheep are enslaved within.

Indeed for all intents and purposes it does appear the USA died on 9/11/2001.
And its no wonder most of the sheep don't care, can't see, don't want to see, and feel RESISTANCE IS FUTILE... Something the perps counted on.

never realized that perhaps the medias role was/is far more important and powerful in the scheme of things. duh!

Reminds me of an interesting prophecy/warning from a seer some call the modern day nostradamus, who warned back in 1995 the USA would cease to exist as a Nation by 2001 and even predicted a major event/emergency would occur on 9/11.

now where the hells Neo? :cool:

[dusthead]

Are you talking about the same Islamic radicals that were all funded and working with the CIA at some point. Actually created by the CIA. So please don't even go there.

Listen mate.. it's not about being paranoid, It's called researching looking at what the government are saying and then coming to the conclusion that only a brain dead fuck wit would buy that shit. Then look at some of theories flying about and some agree with and some I don't, but it all comes back to there is no fucking way on this earth that the official story is plausible.

Islamic Radicalism is not a bunch of cave dwelling low budget muslims sat in caves, wearing woolly hats and long beards. We really do fall into the hands of the government when we believe that.

Islamic radicalism is a very real political ideology that started in the 1950s (there is a VERY good documentary on this subject that I can't mention because it always ends in tears). The ideology goes on the assumption that it is possible to control populations through fear and paranoia (amongst other concepts). Islamic radicalism has caused much disruption and death in the middle east.

By contrast, the terms Al Qaeda and 'the global terror network' were coined by certain US neo-conservative philosophers and political advisors in order to create an 'evil nemesis'. These terms were then passed onto the CIA. In the early 90s, Islamic terror groups were made up of tiny bands, more interested in blowing each other up than tackling the US - they didn't even have names.

Interestingly, neo-conservatism ideology mirrors islamic radicalism in intention. It backs the concept that fear and and paranoia will cause the population to back the ideals of a neo-conservative government and reject the notions of an often 'fictional enemy' (the enemy is almost always harmless and utterly defeatable). This fitted the American concept of a new world order perfectly.

According to 'incompetence theorists' (where on earth do they get these categories from?) when America targetted islamic terror groups, the terrorists responded with 9/11 attacks. It wasn't like the old days of the Reagan era because Russia were nice and predictable. This new group were less likely to back off. The neo-conservatives and the US government made a massive mistake in targetting a very real threat, and according to incompetence theorists they should be held accountable for accidentally setting the whole thing in motion....

This is according to incompetence theorists of course. You don't have to believe it, but it would be nice to have a considered response.

Thanks for implying that I am a 'braindead fuckwit'. That really warms me to the truth movement (again).

Sometimes people with a different opinion have a point. Not always - some things may not fit, but I like to think there's at least something you can take away from the discussion.

On 9/11 there are MANY people who believe MANY different things. Whether they believe the the 'no plane version', the 'rigged explosives version', the cherry-coke flavour, or the 'official version' (with DVD extras) is absolutely immaterial. Truth only comes in one flavour and it often has a bitter aftertaste. That is the nature of objectivity.

[dusthead]

no ones proven ANYTHING beyond a shadow of a doubt?

Are you serious right now? LoL

On the contrary...more than enough proof beyond a doubt and enough of the mystery for all intents an purposes, HAS BEEN solved imo.

The only ones who disagree are either in denial, haven't done enough research, or part of the cover-up.

Answering in order -

No.

Yes.

In your opinion, yes.

The only ones who disagree? I've researched that point more than anything and I can state categorically that there are a lot more than 3 groups - some of them have made some very good points too, but you have to remain calm and objective. Ultimately however, it's all regulated to groups (none of which I belong to) - 'truthers', 'no planers', 'incompetence theorists', 'plane huggers', 'debunkers', 'people who just don't give a shit', 'patriots' etc, etc...

All of them post things like 'Amen Brother!' when you write something they agree with. It's very confusing because I'm just a bored nihilist with too much time on my hands.

[bryan]

Islamic radicalism is a very real political ideology that started in the 1950s (there is a VERY good documentary on this subject that I can't mention because it always ends in tears).


Got the kleenex ready?

The Power of Nightmares Parts 1, 2 & 3, by Adam Curtis.

Subtle disinformation from the BBC.

There's another person here who recommends this trilogy. Are you acquainted with him by any chance?

[wakeupworld]

I'm a believer that 9 11 was an inside job, but do you think, like me, that in 40 or 50 years, people will still be just speculating about it in the same way that we ponder over Kennedy and lee Harvey Oswald?
.................................................. .................................................. ........
No, back in 1963 we didn`t have the internet for a start. So many researchers worldwide are putting the pieces of the jigsaw together.

.................................................. .................................................. ....

I'll be honest now and say that my heart has gone out of this quest for truth. It seems that nothing will ever come out in the open. The Illuminati are just too powerful

.................................................. .................................................. ...

Again because of the internet plenty has come out in the open. The illuminati imo were more powerful back in 1963, and although it may appear that they are more powerful now, i don`t think they are because they are being exposed by the minute to someone for the first time. As Icke says we give our power away.

.................................................. .................................................. ....

Either that, or it was in fact terrorists and there is nothing to expose?

Your thoughts?

.................................................. .................................................. ....

Yes it was terrorists just not those mentioned in the official story.

[redman]

Got the kleenex ready?

The Power of Nightmares Parts 1, 2 & 3, by Adam Curtis.

Subtle disinformation from the BBC.

There's another person here who recommends this trilogy. Are you acquainted with him by any chance?


Beat me to it.


I've seen the doc and whilst it's very interesting, it leaves me with a feeling that the likes of say something like Faraenheit 911 leaves with me. It's interesting stuff and some things in it very true but it's purposely covers ass's and leaves a lot of the nitty gritty truth out.

[redman]

Islamic Radicalism is not a bunch of cave dwelling low budget muslims sat in caves, wearing woolly hats and long beards. We really do fall into the hands of the government when we believe that.

Islamic radicalism is a very real political ideology that started in the 1950s (there is a VERY good documentary on this subject that I can't mention because it always ends in tears). The ideology goes on the assumption that it is possible to control populations through fear and paranoia (amongst other concepts). Islamic radicalism has caused much disruption and death in the middle east.

By contrast, the terms Al Qaeda and 'the global terror network' were coined by certain US neo-conservative philosophers and political advisors in order to create an 'evil nemesis'. These terms were then passed onto the CIA. In the early 90s, Islamic terror groups were made up of tiny bands, more interested in blowing each other up than tackling the US - they didn't even have names.

Interestingly, neo-conservatism ideology mirrors islamic radicalism in intention. It backs the concept that fear and and paranoia will cause the population to back the ideals of a neo-conservative government and reject the notions of an often 'fictional enemy' (the enemy is almost always harmless and utterly defeatable). This fitted the American concept of a new world order perfectly.

According to 'incompetence theorists' (where on earth do they get these categories from?) when America targetted islamic terror groups, the terrorists responded with 9/11 attacks. It wasn't like the old days of the Reagan era because Russia were nice and predictable. This new group were less likely to back off. The neo-conservatives and the US government made a massive mistake in targetting a very real threat, and according to incompetence theorists they should be held accountable for accidentally setting the whole thing in motion....

This is according to incompetence theorists of course. You don't have to believe it, but it would be nice to have a considered response.

Thanks for implying that I am a 'braindead fuckwit'. That really warms me to the truth movement (again).

Sometimes people with a different opinion have a point. Not always - some things may not fit, but I like to think there's at least something you can take away from the discussion.

On 9/11 there are MANY people who believe MANY different things. Whether they believe the the 'no plane version', the 'rigged explosives version', the cherry-coke flavour, or the 'official version' (with DVD extras) is absolutely immaterial. Truth only comes in one flavour and it often has a bitter aftertaste. That is the nature of objectivity.


Well it's quite simple, I don't believe the official story. Do you ?? are you undecided ?? or just don't give a fuck ??


It's very hard for the truth to come out about 911 when the people who many people suspect of orchestrating it have all the evidence and destroyed the most important evidence soon after 911. So it's not like anyone can really nail it down because they hold all the cards, alls we can do is speculate about how the government dealt with 911 and the evidence we can scrape to together, and to be truthful you have a look at the evidence that has been scraped together, there are some very very good questions raised and I don't like the answers coming back.

So can you whine on all day about no planers, plane huggers etc, all that shit is just childish banter. Still doesn't change the fact that a lot and I mean a lot of the official story doesn't hold water mate. Do you agree ??

[dusthead]

Got the kleenex ready?

The Power of Nightmares Parts 1, 2 & 3, by Adam Curtis.

Subtle disinformation from the BBC.

There's another person here who recommends this trilogy. Are you acquainted with him by any chance?

No I'm not, but the documentary holds up very well. I couldn't see anything in it that wasn't factual and agreed on from all sides (which is rare). It didn't discuss the technical aspects of the attacks on 9/11, but then that wasn't the point of the programme.

Unfortunately the BBC are entirely discounted by proxy on this forum, so anything I say in defence of the programme will fall on deaf ears.

However - well spotted.

[redman]

No I'm not, but the documentary holds up very well. I couldn't see anything in it that wasn't factual and agreed on from all sides (which is rare). It didn't discuss the technical aspects of the attacks on 9/11, but then that wasn't the point of the programme.

Unfortunately the BBC are entirely discounted by proxy on this forum, so anything I say in defence of the programme will fall on deaf ears.

However - well spotted.



Ever wondered why that might be ??

[dusthead]

Ever wondered why that might be ??

Not really.

There seems to be a bit of a fuss over the BBC and 9/11 (yes I know about the reporting of the WTC7 etc) AND 7/7 (I saw that too) AND the licence fee AND certain things to do with political correctness which may or may not be linked to zionists.

Take your pick.

Whilst I understand that the BBC can be questionable at the best of times, the programming comes from a variety of sources (reports that the Teletubbies and Stephen Fry are under the tight control of the Bush administration were unconfirmed at the time of writing).

So it is then with Power of Nightmares which, had it been shown on any other channel, would be a lot more respected than it is.

As it stands, the programme was dismissed by conspiracy theorists and was missed by the majority of late night TV punters who were watching 'Big Brother' or some such nonsense on Channel 4.

It would seem that a lot less regular people actually watched it and those that would ordinarily have enjoyed the documentary thought it was 'disinformation' which I think is a great shame, but you don't have to agree with me. In fact I will freely distance myself from defending the programme at all just to stop more tedious arguments.

What the director makes of all of this I do not know. I hear he won a few awards for it (unconfirmed), so I imagine he's enjoying his wages at a pub somewhere.

[dusthead]

Well it's quite simple, I don't believe the official story. Do you ?? are you undecided ?? or just don't give a fuck ??

Still doesn't change the fact that a lot and I mean a lot of the official story doesn't hold water mate. Do you agree ??

At this point in time, I don't even know what the 'official' explanation is supposed to be. According to who? The BBC? Loose Change? Some people on CNN? An independent Youtube documentary? Alex Jones? Michael 'Hug the victims!' Moore?

Someone said Osama Bin Laden was behind it. Was he? Tony Blair and George Bush said they have seen conclusive proof. They said that quite a lot, but they seem to have forgotten to show the rest of us what is in that bulky file.

Additionally there's a load of 'scientific people' who can prove in flashy language and mathematics that the whole thing was indeed master-minded by terrorists - Whoopee! But hold on! - There's another bunch of 'scientific people' who can prove in flashy language and mathematics that it was an inside-job.

In fairness, I can find both arguments online and they are both compelling reading, incredibly well informed and ultimately pointless in the same way as Stephen Hawking saying the universe is saddle shaped, because they remain hypothetical.

There's tons of stuff that doesn't make sense. Do I have any answers? Of course not! I'm just a Nihilist with too much time on his hands. I can only speculate and formulate ideas. I've never flown a plane or built a skyscraper and I have no 'hands-on experience' in planting explosives. I can listen to lots of people who CLAIM to know a lot about all kinds of things, but even they are divided in opinion, and these are 'top people' (it says here).

In my eyes, it's a lot of arguing with no resolution. Even the truth movement is arguing amongst itself with all this 'no plane'/'yes plane!' malarky.

I observe all this mess out of sheer curiosity. I collect useless information from all over the place but I don't really know what to do with it.

[stannrodd]

At this point in time, I don't even know what the 'official' explanation is supposed to be. According to who? The BBC? Loose Change? Some people on CNN? An independent Youtube documentary? Alex Jones? Michael 'Hug the victims!' Moore?

Someone said Osama Bin Laden was behind it. Was he? Tony Blair and George Bush said they have seen conclusive proof. They said that quite a lot, but they seem to have forgotten to show the rest of us what is in that bulky file.

Additionally there's a load of 'scientific people' who can prove in flashy language and mathematics that the whole thing was indeed master-minded by terrorists - Whoopee! But hold on! - There's another bunch of 'scientific people' who can prove in flashy language and mathematics that it was an inside-job.

In fairness, I can find both arguments online and they are both compelling reading, incredibly well informed and ultimately pointless in the same way as Stephen Hawking saying the universe is saddle shaped, because they remain hypothetical.

There's tons of stuff that doesn't make sense. Do I have any answers? Of course not! I'm just a Nihilist with too much time on his hands. I can only speculate and formulate ideas. I've never flown a plane or built a skyscraper and I have no 'hands-on experience' in planting explosives. I can listen to lots of people who CLAIM to know a lot about all kinds of things, but even they are divided in opinion, and these are 'top people' (it says here).

In my eyes, it's a lot of arguing with no resolution. Even the truth movement is arguing amongst itself with all this 'no plane'/'yes plane!' malarky.

I observe all this mess out of sheer curiosity. I collect useless information from all over the place but I don't really know what to do with it.

Good post IMO .. I will pull you up on one though and that is the Stephen Hawking thing.

I do believe his speculation and theory is extremely well peer reviewed, and Time will tell if he is right as the sciences develop. Similarly with Einstein, proof arrived with time and science evolution. He was mostly right.

Unlike 9/11 or JFK .. time will not give clarity, it will allow for more speculation without any further development in quantifiable evidence. What evidence there is .. already exists. Access to all the evidence would seem to be a problem which may correct itself over time.

The one problem I have is the WTC7 collapse.

Not it's timing or other fringe theory speculation, but the actual collapse irrespective of those.

The recent photo posted somewhere here of the building in China, which was absolutely totally gutted by a fairly decent sized fire .. and didn't collapse.

Either WTC7 was doomed to collapse because of fire damage or it wasn't.

If it was doomed to collapse because of what appears to be a minor fire in comparison to the China fire, then the building must have been a poor example of American structural steel engineering .. or fire didn't cause the collapse.

If so .. then what caused it? , .. this is where speculation takes over ..!

Found a pic .. the tower was the Television Cultural Center, 44 storeys (WTC7 47storeys)

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/beijing-fire-gray2.jpg

Stann

[tannah]

Either WTC7 was doomed to collapse because of fire damage or it wasn't.

If it was doomed to collapse because of what appears to be a minor fire in comparison to the China fire, then the building must have been a poor example of American structural steel engineering .. or fire didn't cause the collapse.

If so .. then what caused it? , ..

Greed, lust for power and corruption. Undermining cultures and economies for centuries, cultivating conditions for drawing order from chaos.

[snapperhead]

I do not have a single doubt all the news I hear about wmd's, casualties, the reason for war in iraq, 9/11, ect.....-- is completely controlled by the US Gov.. except for maybe a few "non mainstream" news gathers. I know we have killed over 100,000 people in the oil rich nation who probably don't have much of a clue why they have died. Point being--9/11--who cares if it was planned or not planned. Radicals rule all nations involved and psychological cripples (best way to describe) orate dreams of Hope to even worse off souls. God, we are so vain to believe we are the first civilization to be lied to, tortured, or manipulated to make a few fat cats even fatter. What are you going to do about it? I say you and I will shake our head before we set our alarm to make sure we are on time for us to expend our precious life and energies to make the same fat cats fatter.
By the way--we need oil....we are bathed in it from everything from plastics, to car parts, to heating oil, to damn near everything that makes life easy. What do you think China is going to do when they become oil starved? Maybe we can put some flowers in their rifles.
I like to think my spirituality will rescue me--not trying to fix a governmental system that is just as flawed now as it was in Babylon. This is only one plane of existence--one that promised us strife from birth to death. It also offers forms of Government--some nicer on the outside than others, but all murderous, devious, and drunk on power. I feel stuck here--thank God not forever.:rolleyes:

[stannrodd]

Either WTC7 was doomed to collapse because of fire damage or it wasn't.

If it was doomed to collapse because of what appears to be a minor fire in comparison to the China fire, then the building must have been a poor example of American structural steel engineering .. or fire didn't cause the collapse.

If so .. then what caused it? , ..

Greed, lust for power and corruption. Undermining cultures and economies for centuries, cultivating conditions for drawing order from chaos.

It's a useful description tannah but seems to avoid the actual facts ..

Your comment is an "endgame" proposition.

Anyway ..

Stann

[gribz]

The mainstream media every now and again will pose the question of 'Was it an inside job?' in small doses- nothing like the weight of information and study as found on this forum and others. But it's nothing more than a parlour game. It's largely presented as a topic isolated from other factors, i.e. if they really were about exposing 9/11 and 7/7 the media would have to point the finger at its own involvement.

Yip agree with this and will add they also have an agenda to make conspiracy theorists look mad.

They will raise the question 'was it an inside job' to attract viewers then attempt to prove that the other theories are not possible - its more manipultion on behalf of the corporate media.

Yet many on here have seen the BBC's attempts at this and managed to debunk it in seconds.

[bryan]

Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation
by H. Michael Sweeney


12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.


http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html


Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist
by H. Michael Sweeney


5) Anti-conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for 'conspiracy theorists' and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain. Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.


http://www.whale.to/b/sweeney.html

[januspolanski]

I think the bottom line is that mentally a lot of people are too weak to confront the truth about 911 and what that entails.

[bryan]

The one problem I have is the WTC7 collapse.

Not it's timing or other fringe theory speculation, but the actual collapse irrespective of those.

The recent photo posted somewhere here of the building in China, which was absolutely totally gutted by a fairly decent sized fire .. and didn't collapse.


Four and a half years of research into 9/11 and Stann never suspected foul play in the collapse of Building 7 till he saw some pictures of a big fire in China.

Stann, next time you're looking for something, try opening your eyes.

In the meantime, why don't you document your findings on the non-collapse of the Chinese building and get it peer reviewed, then we can hope for some justice in about 150 years time.

Does that kind of timeline suit your agenda?



If so .. then what caused it? , .. this is where speculation takes over ..!


Don't go jumping to any conclusions! :eek:

[tannah]

It's a useful description tannah but seems to avoid the actual facts ..

Your comment is an "endgame" proposition.

Anyway ..

Stann


I dunno, to me they are the actual facts. The rest is particulars, the kind of stuff that can be argued about relentlessly. The mind is an awesome thing, it can culculate very quickly the actions and motives of many seperate systems, and come to a simple conclusion.

Perhaps one difference between us, Stann, is that you think you can discuss these atrocious events in history over a cup of tea. Whereas I see no such luxury of time available. I know what I see is a corrupt system, the next stage is how to go about trying to defeat it. Trying to find theories that fit
is one of the things that the corrupt enjoy watching us do. They slap you in the face and say "go on then, tell me how I did that".

At the same time , any attempt to defeat corruption does need organisation, a common theme that unites people, and the leader types to keep it going.

[stfd]

in 40 or 50 years the nature of the human exsistance shall be such that these questions will be no more than dim and distance reflections of a bygone reality

+1

[redman]

At this point in time, I don't even know what the 'official' explanation is supposed to be. According to who? The BBC? Loose Change? Some people on CNN? An independent Youtube documentary? Alex Jones? Michael 'Hug the victims!' Moore?
.



Erm try this.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9159/sept11report.th.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sept11report.jpg)

[dusthead]

Erm try this.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9159/sept11report.th.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sept11report.jpg)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

I just realised I'VE NEVER EVEN READ IT!

I know all about the conspiracy side of things because I can't escape from it on the internet, but no-one has ever suggested I read the official report before!

Maybe I should point out that I don't own a TV (haven't done for well over 15 years). I watched Power of Nightmares on an old black and white TV from the attic (it is rescued sometimes when something interesting is on - but digital will soon phase it out). I don't like newspapers and I find them irritating.

I live by my own code of practice and I make up my own mind on things. If there are things about which a conclusion cannot be drawn, I have to conceed that I don't have the answers (9/11 is one of them). I didn't see the events of 9/11 on TV until the day after it happened.

If you are interested in how I responded to all the 'media hype' and TV reports (bearing in mind that I rarely watch TV), then feel free to use me as a guinea pig.

I may live in a bubble but trust me - there is far more 'truther' material out there than the 'official' stuff. I can say that with certainty now. If people don't believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy you should take it very seriously, because I rarely hear the other side of the argument. By contrast, every time I use the internet there's SOMETHING about 9/11 being an inside-job.

Thanks for that post Redman. I can't decide whether I'm utterly stupid, lucky to be cut off from things, a reclusive madman or a bizarre genius. Whatever I am, I'm laughing my tits off right now.

I need to get out more, that's for certain. Maybe I'll pop out to the pub later.

[redman]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

I just realised I'VE NEVER EVEN READ IT!

I know all about the conspiracy side of things because I can't escape from it on the internet, but no-one has ever suggested I read the official report before!

Maybe I should point out that I don't own a TV (haven't done for well over 15 years). I watched Power of Nightmares on an old black and white TV from the attic (it is rescued sometimes when something interesting is on - but digital will soon phase it out). I don't like newspapers and I find them irritating.

I live by my own code of practice and I make up my own mind on things. If there are things about which a conclusion cannot be drawn, I have to conceed that I don't have the answers (9/11 is one of them). I didn't see the events of 9/11 on TV until the day after it happened.

If you are interested in how I responded to all the 'media hype' and TV reports (bearing in mind that I rarely watch TV), then feel free to use me as a guinea pig.

I may live in a bubble but trust me - there is far more 'truther' material out there than the 'official' stuff. I can say that with certainty now. If people don't believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy you should take it very seriously, because I rarely hear the other side of the argument. By contrast, every time I use the internet there's SOMETHING about 9/11 being an inside-job.

Thanks for that post Redman. I can't decide whether I'm utterly stupid, lucky to be cut off from things, a reclusive madman or a bizarre genius. Whatever I am, I'm laughing my tits off right now.

I need to get out more, that's for certain. Maybe I'll pop out to the pub later.


No probs, I have actually bought a copy of that shit. And have actually read it. It's disturbingly funny. Doesn't even mention WTC 7 oddly enough. Which I find absolutely laughable and straight away raises my suspicions.

If you are not sure if it was a inside job or not, then this book most definitely clears that all up for you.


Last place I want to go when I feel like I need to get out is the pub... pubs these days are just so fucking boring. Empty and extremely expensive.

[dusthead]

No probs, I have actually bought a copy of that shit. And have actually read it. It's disturbingly funny. Doesn't even mention WTC 7 oddly enough. Which I find absolutely laughable and straight away raises my suspicions.

If you are not sure if it was a inside job or not, then this book most definitely clears that all up for you.


Last place I want to go when I feel like I need to get out is the pub... pubs these days are just so fucking boring. Empty and extremely expensive.

I don't think I'll be reading the official version anytime soon.

The reason I found my uneducated behaviour so amusing, is that I've often been accused of being 'brainwashed' or 'manipulated' by the more extreme followers of this topic.

It only now occurs to me that all my information has been collected from the very people who have been throwing these accusations at me. In fact, I've never come into contact with much of the 'official' reasoning or media material at all (bar a few DVDs and documentaries).

In continuing to ignore the official version of events and abstaining from watching TV or reading newspapers, I have accidentally proved myself to be an exception to the rule (I am unconvinced by an awful lot of stuff from all sides), which struck me as a source of mirth.

My views are certainly different to either the 'truthers' or the 'debunkers', but whether this is a result of steering clear of absolutely everything, I have no idea.

As for pubs - it depends which pub you are talking about. I live in a very scenic area and the pub here is very pleasant. They have an open fire, live jazz music and the food is great.

[xrxs1020]

While I agree that the malevolence of Neocons and Jihadists is roughly comparable, a great distinction exists. The neocons have the old-money oligarchy behind them, with all manner of hardware and assets. The Jihadists are a century or so behind. Advantage: neocons.

[goldman]

Oswald didn't do it. It was known directly after it happened, no speculation needed.
Here u see Oswald outside of the store when the shooting started. He could not have done it. Simple!

http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/JFK/ALT_ANNOT.jpg

http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/images/OswaldTribune.jpg

[secondsun]

..the final shot came from within the car!... thats the only way it could have been guaranteed!....not the driver... the person to his right!... imo`!

[secondsun]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7726031384917866364

...the above video is The CIA Connection.... the whole video is worth a watch but if you forward to about 6 minutes.... watch Connelly very closely!...the final shot sequence is repeated a number of times... he appears to cowl downwards to his left away from the gunfire... but if you watch carefully... he starts his move downwards and to left a second before the shot that hit JFK in the head... how would he known it was coming?????????????????

...there`s the clue!...imo`!