Shutter Island

[ninny]

Anyone seen this video and feels a little bit punked because of the end of the story? Which psychiatric clinic would make a big roleplay game to get 1 person healthy? come on :D it is nearly the time my grandpa was at a psychiatrics and they made electroshocks to him.

http://periscopedepth.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/shutter_island_movie_poster2.jpg

then something else. 'the law of 4' and '67'...

found this one:

http://en.camoin.com/tarot/Law-of-Four.html

the +1 is interesting. because there were 66 patiens + 1 (him, leonardo)

[hannah50]

Hi Ninny -

I've never heard of this movie. I take it it's an older one (I didn't click the link yet)?

I'll check it out.

[onourwayto2012]

Hi Ninny -

I've never heard of this movie. I take it it's an older one (I didn't click the link yet)?

I'll check it out.

No it's brand new...... another thread i started.....

[moneyisntreal]

The movie basically talks at lengths about MK-Ultra type stuff and hallucogenics being used in experiments on the mentally ill. It even mentions Nazi doctors coming over to the U.S after the war and the CIA being involved.

I found it kinda funny when thinking back on the film after knowning the twist ending how they set the whole thing up for him and all the other patients had to play along and the guards too for him like it was some make believe game for a kid at his birthday party.

[metacomet]

Damn, this thread is heading down major spoiler territory hahaha...

sounds interesting.

I liked Dicaprio in Blood Diamond:

http://www.mtv.com/shared/promoimages/movies/b/blood_diamond/leonardo/281x211.jpg

[ninny]

i ve seen that movie twice now. in no way can you look this movie more than once. what a bullshit *rofl*

interesting topics, shitty end which i dont buy. yes seems to be a new one. i think came out in fall last year in the US. hits the cinema now in germany.

[ninny]

No it's brand new...... another thread i started.....

you started a thread already? sorry didnt see. can you link it?

[ninny]

,

[ninny]

Hi Ninny -

I've never heard of this movie. I take it it's an older one (I didn't click the link yet)?

I'll check it out.

the link is about a type of tarot (Marseilles Tarot) speaking about the law of 4.
In the Movie the law of 4 was about one name which he built up 3 other names using anagrams.

i quote it for you:




In the Marseilles Tarot, certain symbols are coded according to the "Law of 3 + 1". This means that they appear four times. But in the group of four elements, three are similar and the fourth is different.

The most basic example, which is also the linchpin of the "Law of 3 + 1", is found in the card The World, in which there is a group of four "beings". They are a group of four, but three of them have halos while the fourth, the bull, does not.

But we can find other examples of this law. For example, in the group of four horses in the Knights of the Minor Arcana, three are blue and the fourth is white. In the group of four angels in the Major Arcana, three are in the sky (The Lover, Judgment, and The World) and the fourth is standing on the ground (Temperance).

It is noteworthy that the eagle does not follow the Law of Four because it only appears three times in the Major Arcana and five times in the entire deck.
Philippe Camoin


i also found something about 4 spiritual laws. but the marseilles tarot does make more sense acc. to the movie. maybe someone finds other stuff that fits more to the movie.

and this 67 reminded me of the tshirt "667 - neighbor of the beast" *rofl*

[michael_mac]

The movie basically talks at lengths about MK-Ultra type stuff and hallucogenics being used in experiments on the mentally ill. It even mentions Nazi doctors coming over to the U.S after the war and the CIA being involved.

I found it kinda funny when thinking back on the film after knowning the twist ending how they set the whole thing up for him and all the other patients had to play along and the guards too for him like it was some make believe game for a kid at his birthday party.

Shutter Island - Shutter is (before digital) was the mechanism on a camera that allowed the amount of light through. Could be symbolism? Saw the trailer on TV for it, it's looks a bit like Saw and various torture horror movies!

I often thought when watching horror films over the years - "why do we sit down and keep watching this shit, thinking that we have to do it to prove ourselves or something?" Is that what Hollywood is imposing on people via these films? That we have to endure horror on film, but also in life? Because there is a lot of horror going on in the world in reality - are films imposing on us the idea that it's an unavoidable part of life?

[moneyisntreal]

yea I really should have mentioned Spoiler Alert in my previous post though maybe its kind of obvious I guessed the ending about an hour before it ended and I just mentioned to some guy at work that there was a twist and he figured it out right away.

[torus]

and at the end, why did his partner and alleged shrink call him Teddy?

[ninny]

yea I really should have mentioned Spoiler Alert in my previous post though maybe its kind of obvious I guessed the ending about an hour before it ended and I just mentioned to some guy at work that there was a twist and he figured it out right away.

hello you are right. i also shouted to my bf by seeing the first signals: "oh no, i hope it wont end like i think now it will end. damn hollywood" :D

[loublaze3]

Just watched this....very pissed at the end. They give us all this shit and then all of a sudden they make it seem like make believe..like he's crazy..how about the 'imaginary' doctor he met in the cave who told him about the ciggarettes and the aspirin? Bullshit so called 'twist' man i wish i didn't pay for that

[dedicate]

The Ninth Configuration.

The Game.

Done that.

[_placebo_]

Shutter Island - Shutter is (before digital) was the mechanism on a camera that allowed the amount of light through. Could be symbolism? Saw the trailer on TV for it, it's looks a bit like Saw and various torture horror movies!

I often thought when watching horror films over the years - "why do we sit down and keep watching this shit, thinking that we have to do it to prove ourselves or something?" Is that what Hollywood is imposing on people via these films? That we have to endure horror on film, but also in life? Because there is a lot of horror going on in the world in reality - are films imposing on us the idea that it's an unavoidable part of life?

I assumed the same. I was pleasantly surprised since the trailer would lead you to believe it's going to be a horror (which I hate) so when I watched it I made sure it was in the daylight :D No need though, since it's just a pretty decent psychological thriller..Not the best I've seen but it's close. I've seen 2 of the Saw films and they're disgusting - Shutter Island is nothing like that.

I didn't expect the ending, which a lot of people I've spoken to after seeing the film did not pick up on. I would suggest watching it since it's far from what was advertised.

[engelsblume]

Just watched this....very pissed at the end. They give us all this shit and then all of a sudden they make it seem like make believe..like he's crazy..

Same here. Was really angry. After watching this and that awful Alice in wonderland I've had it with the cinema.

[darkxace]

What are you guys talking about...?

You do realise the movie has evidence to support both conclusions.

SPOILERS.....

If you read this, it will become more clear:
http://screenrant.com/shutter-island-spoilers-discussion-vic-46052/

My conclusion is that the main character is not insane, if you want me to give my evidence, just let me know.

[ninny]

My conclusion is that the main character is not insane

+1

as i stated in my first post, i never thought he is crazy. i hated the end of the movie because of the twist.
i dont have the feeling that anyone here discussing it, thought he is crazy.
we all are quite common with this conspiracy stuff. why would we think he is crazy?
because the producer wants us to?

i read on your link that some people think otherwise.
the producer knew very well how to play with peoples mind.
but because of the serious topic of that, i dont find that funny in any way.

no psychiatrics is playing role play games. this is just fucking impossible. none of those working people have time for such a shit.
the murder of his wife etc. did not make any sense, imo.

[littlebat]

I would be interested to hear your evidence.

I found the film irritating, and the twist was so strongly signalled that it deprived the film of all meaning. One huge hole in the plot, IMO, was that how would the other patients be persuaded to take part in such a charade? If they are mentally ill, they might be unable to, even if it could be explained to them. No one in the whole hospital seems to recognise the main character as he goes about his clumsy enquiry.

However, there was room, at the end, for an alternative reading, which is that this is a sane person who is drugged and isolated until he loses contact with reality. The last, menacing, picture of the "The Lighthouse" introduced a note of doubt.

Incidently, I thought that the film had some references to Virginia Woolf's modernist novel, To the Lighthouse. Virginia had lifelong problems with mental illness, and an interest in how perceptions are twisted and manipulated. She was a member of the Bloomsbury Group, an avant guarde, elite, British social circle with some odd connections. She is said to have committed suicide by drowning, although a minority opinion finds her death has some strange features, and that her husband might be implicated.

[ninny]

One huge hole in the plot, IMO, was that how would the other patients be persuaded to take part in such a charade? If they are mentally ill, they might be unable to, even if it could be explained to them. No one in the whole hospital seems to recognise the main character as he goes about his clumsy enquiry.

well if you compare with reality, thats just the evidence.
if you start to twist more, it could be that the roleplay was not real and half of the movie was a vision of the main char who then got the lobotomy.

imo, i doesnt make sense to start a game and then end the game by a lobotomy. why not make a lobo directly without wasting time, money and nerves?

again if you compare with reality, i doubt any of psycho docs are interested in getting a person healthy. they just get pills, some stupid conversations and then they rest as animals like in a jail (like the one he met). i mean, come on. :D

[energi]

well if you compare with reality, thats just the evidence.
if you start to twist more, it could be that the roleplay was not real and half of the movie was a vision of the main char who then got the lobotomy.

imo, i doesnt make sense to start a game and then end the game by a lobotomy. why not make a lobo directly without wasting time, money and nerves?

again if you compare with reality, i doubt any of psycho docs are interested in getting a person healthy. they just get pills, some stupid conversations and then they rest as animals like in a jail (like the one he met). i mean, come on. :D

Even those that are legitimate and caring is, at the end of the day, performing their jobs for a certain pay of money. I've met great psychiatrists, but they are not the all-mighty priests they want to be. The healing always takes place within.

[ninny]

of course i think there are "good" people among them but the "system" was not made to make patients healthy. ive seen too much concerning this. they loose theirself not only by getting mentally ill but also by using prescription drugs. both we have seen in the movie, with the difference that they make a roleplay game. and thats just an illusion to me. the people who work in such clinics also have seen too much to become too much involved. its just also self defense. it breaks the heart not to help those people. nethertheless the ultimate "help guide" for those people maybe is known, but its not used. if it could be a role play game.... who knows. :D

you also can browse through borderline or anorexia forums. at least those people are mentally ill in a way because of whatever experiences in their early years... if you read their experiences in clinics and what drugs they take, it is really a mess. the health care system concerning those mental illnesses is (what i think) simply overchallenged. i dont know if you know the New German Medicine. I think their basic approaches can be a beginning to modern help guides for persons who are mentally ill. even though almost every illness is based on the mind. I just watched the movie last night again. This stuff makes me sick. I should have not opened the thread.

[littlebat]

I just watched the movie last night again. This stuff makes me sick. I should have not opened the thread.

My sympathies ninny. In fact, it is a good thread and I was very glad to read it. But the film touches on very sad and upsetting themes, and in a very exploitative and sly manner - bad stuff - and so it is oppressing you.

[ninny]

in a way this movie fucks me up, because they make fun of mental illnesses. but we have seen a lot of nazi scenes he was involved. the "freeing" of germany etc. mass corpses, his "maybe illusional" alcoholism. who knows... and i dont know if its good to make the person look mentally ill because he sees a nazi conspiracy behind all. we all know that the nazis went to usa and other countries and hided (Mengele, too). so i dont like that they twisted all those serious topics. those topics dont deserve such a twist, such as tarrantinos nazi trash. they take too much coke in hollywood. the movie better should have an open end for the people who watched it to think more about. the twist leaves the persons crazy behind. there is no sense at all.

[dmt head]

I loved it, one of the best films ive seen in a long time! :p

[ninny]

maybe we should come back to the subliminal stuff.
what imo doesnt make sense is the law of 4 and the 667.

anyone an idea?

[shankers]

I felt a bit short-changed by the film.

* Spoilers alert *

For what it's worth, my view:

- Leo's character (I'll refer to him as Leo) was looking in to Shutter Island
- As a result, Shutter Island was looking in to him
- 'Coincidence': Shutter Island job comes up for Leo re disappearing woman
- Leo meets new partner, who's not his partner, but actually a doctor from Shutter Island
- Leo goes about his business, spilling the beans to his partner re his intentions to get irrefutable proof of malpractice in Shutter Island
-Leo complains of headaches etc during his investigations. He's given 'aspirin', as well as cigarretes, which are in fact drugs. These induce MK-Ultra-style mind-control, induced-memories, hallucinations etc.
-The build-up of these drugs over a short period of time blend the real memories (e.g., death-camp liberation girl with his daughter) into induced memories, which are used by the doctors at the climax of the film to convince him of the murder he committed
- Why did his partner refer to Leo 'in role' again at the end? It was a test to see the extent to which the mind-control worked, and it hadn't, so he was too risky to send back to the mainland, so they took him to the lighthouse to give him a lobotomy.

It wasn't the 'he's crazy, therefore they gave him a roleplay' film. Beautiful Mind did something akin to this years ago.

Rather, Shutter Island is more of a study in MK Ultra, mind control, and the like.

[dmt head]

Wasnt it a test to see if he indeed remembered that he commited the crime and now accepted it? which he had done but still chose to have the lobotomy?

[alder]

Yeah, the plot is a bit contrived. As a story, there must be some metaphorical elements, or allegorical meaning. But it's anyone's guess what the deeper significance of the characters psychological condition is, and what the island represents.