Toyota Accelerators are wireless!

[stompk]

OK, this whole Toyota thing has bugged me since the beginning.

First, they blamed it on bad driving, then floormats, then sticky accelerator assy.

Each time, I've raised the BS flag. None of it made sense. I knew they were hiding something.

My suspicions were confirmed when I started searching for wireless throttle assy.

Believe me, they don't want this known. Why? Because the military/homeland security is using a wireless signal technology they don't want us to know about.

At first, all I could find was Toyota saying that a signal is sent from pedal to control computer, called the ETCS(i) which is outlined in this class action lawsuit. And yes, this dates back to 2002
http://www.scribd.com/doc/26453850/Baumkel-v-Toyota-class-action-lawsuit

I searched schematics, forums, nothing would tell me HOW the signal is being sent. And plenty of people have asked the question.

Then, I found this


Vehicle

2004 Toyota Tundra 4dr Double Cab SR5 4WD SB (4.7L 8cyl 4A)

Review

Vehicle feels solid on the road. Cabin is spacious. Controls are typical of foreign vehicle but could be desined better. Headlight control integrated in turn signal. I have had the headlights go off accidentally at night when I put on the turn signal. Wireless throttle control is not as smooth as it could be. Neither is the transmission. Turning radius is pathetic. Stock tires are not good in snow and. Engine power is more than adequate. Truck performs well offroad. I like the power rear window. 4WD system works well and is easy to use. Load capability is good. Overall, I like the truck.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:8IyLNlurZyEJ:www.edmunds.com/toyota/tundra/2004/consumerreview.1.100368160.date.html+%22wireless+t hrottle+control%22+Toyota&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Now, this was in the comment section in a well respected mechanic's website.

I wanted further proof. I searched for hours. The effort going on to keep this quiet is immense, suggesting a conspiracy of international importance.

Then I found this.


This course will provide an overview of the operation of the Toyota electronic "wireless" throttle control system. We will take a look at the design and function of the Toyota ETCS and how it is integrated with Toyota's Vehicle Stability Control System.

https://secure.acteaz.org/SummerConference2009/SessionList.aspx

Proof that Toyota is not driving by wire but wireless! Cable is expensive, so the savings were probably a bunch. Wasn't Toyota bragging about how much money they saved? I have used wireless to control electrical equipment when it was too expensive to run a signal cable.

Problem. You know how your cellphone can receive interference, drop calls? Well, any wireless signal can be interfered with. And, it probably can purposely be controlled.

[fuzzylogic]

I think you're interpretting wireless incorrectly.

I reckon it's refering to how the throttle pedal used to be attached directly to the throttle via a wire.

But now they aren't.

And to further confuse it, it's wireless, but is called drive-by-wire.

[stompk]

I think you're interpretting wireless incorrectly.

I reckon it's refering to how the throttle pedal used to be attached directly to the throttle via a wire.

But now they aren't.

And to further confuse it, it's wireless, but is called drive-by-wire.

The drive by wireless course I referred to was put on by ACTE, a technical education organization.

Do you think they would misinterpret it? Wireless, and drive by wire are vastly different.

[kodiak]

I spoke to an ex Volvo dealer on Wednesday and he said it's not just Toyota, but most other manufacturers, but that they've gagged the info from being released. The guy who told me this is a very conscientious Christian as well, so I've every reason to believe him.

[fuzzylogic]

Do you think they would misinterpret it?
I'm not aware that they have interpretted anything. They've just called it wireless.

You seem to have missed that the session you've quoted is called "Toyota USA "Drive by Wire"".

[stompk]

I spoke to an ex Volvo dealer on Wednesday and he said it's not just Toyota, but most other manufacturers, but that they've gagged the info from being released. The guy who told me this is a very conscientious Christian as well, so I've every reason to believe him.

Thanks for that! Yes, I believe this is a much larger problem than being let on.

I believe the technology is in aircraft too. It makes sense, wires are heavy.

But have you seen how many unexplained plane crashes there have been lately?

I think it has something to do with UAV control technology, or HAARP

[icarus]

i prefer older cars because they don't have shit like this under the bonnet/hood

i know they are now electronic link only, controlled by ECU. that alone is dodgy enough, but wireless as well is bad news

i've said before that Jörg Haider was murdered by this sort of technology. he was no doubt drifting along, then the throttle floored itself, and he was then a passenger in his own car

they don't like nationalists in their new world

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/10/12/alg_haider-car.jpg

[stompk]

i prefer older cars because they don't have shit like this under the bonnet/hood

i know they are now electronic link only, controlled by ECU. that alone is dodgy enough, but wireless as well is bad news

i've said before that Jörg Haider was murdered by this sort of technology. he was no doubt drifting along, then the throttle floored itself, and he was then a passenger in his own car

they don't like nationalists in their new world



Check this out. Just found it.


An electronic throttle control system for a vehicle utilizes wireless communication to provide command signals to a motor assembly that responsively drives the throttle control assembly. All communications between an accelerator pedal, a controller and the motor assembly preferably are wireless. Feedback information indicating motor operation or position information is provided to the controller through wireless communication. A power source for the motor assembly preferably is supported as part of the motor assembly so that no external wire connections are required. The power source preferably is provided with energy as a result of vibrations caused by vehicle operation or from a dedicated source of vibration.

Assignee:
Siemens Canada Limited (Tilbury, CA)

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6386181.html

It appears the patent was issued in 2002, filed for in 2000. Fits with the timeline.

[icarus]

"An electronic throttle control system for a vehicle utilizes wireless communication to provide command signals to a motor assembly that responsively drives the throttle control assembly. All communications between an accelerator pedal, a controller and the motor assembly preferably are wireless. Feedback information indicating motor operation or position information is provided to the controller through wireless communication. A power source for the motor assembly preferably is supported as part of the motor assembly so that no external wire connections are required. The power source preferably is provided with energy as a result of vibrations caused by vehicle operation or from a dedicated source of vibration."

in other words, anyone with the right equipment can pull up behind you and take over your car, or your aircraft

but then, who could possibly want to do that?

[fuzzylogic]

Check this out. Just found it.


http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6386181.html

It appears the patent was issued in 2002, filed for in 2000. Fits with the timeline.
I would be amazed if someone hadn't patented it.

Now all they have to do is sit there and wait for someone to use it.

Proving it's used anywhere would have to be your next step. I bet you it ain't in a Toyota.

Of course "communication" is the keyword there. Nothing else so far has mentioned communication.

[stompk]

I thought this conversation was interesting.


I mean is there an actual electronic connection or is it done wirelessly. I just saw on TV that Toyota may be using throttle by wireless and I was wondering if BMW does the same thing. I used to work with wireless, and let me tell you, if that's the case, I have no trust in the technology whatsoever

http://forums.5series.net/topic/94454-question-about-the-electronic-throttle-control-system/

It's some car buffs talking about wireless control.

[stompk]

I just found this


LPRS has been selected by Sabre-Innovation to provide wireless control links as part of a manufacturing performance system in use at a UK aircraft manufacturer.

http://www.electronicstalk.com/news/low/low157.html

[snapdragon]

Toyota (and most others') throttle pedals are not wireless, they are cable-less. There seems to be some confusion/lost in translation.

There are two variable resistors in the pedal position sensor, and two switches. The input of these are fed to the ECU as "driver demand" quotients and combined with other quotients such as smoke, cruise control, wheelspin regulation, transmission demand, torque limit etc.. to calculate the actual throttle position for the electronic throttle on the engine (or the diesel injection pump/s on diesels.)

I think people are looking for something that isn't there. If this method existed, it would be easily provable a publicised.
If there is a 'backdoor' to a car, this isn't it.

[white rabbit]

this means that its easy to cause an accident only by an interference with the signal(maybe with a cell-phone jammer or high voltage powersource), so the police/military can stop or maybe even control your car and also the more dependant in the computer ensures them your car will stop with an emp-gun(it will destroy the car's computer)

[stompk]

this means that its easy to cause an accident only by an interference with the signal(maybe with a cell-phone jammer or high voltage powersource), so the police/military can stop or maybe even control your car and also the more dependant in the computer ensures them your car will stop with an emp-gun(it will destroy the car's computer)

Well, if they can unlock your doors for you through On-Star, I can guarantee that this technology has infiltrated almost all newer vehicles.

Big brother can cause you to crash!

[icarus]

if it's not a direct link between your foot and the throttle, it can be intercepted

if the ECU controls it, that can be reprogrammed, perhaps remotely, with a time delay, after which any throttle input will max out

if wireless does find it's way onto cars, any bastard with the right frequency can take over your car

seriously, this is child's play for the sort of people who pulled off 911 nearly ten years ago. if there is a way to control your car remtoley, htey re all over it already.

some of that tech may have gone inot these toyotas and other cars, and we're seenig the downside now

by an older car, pre 2000 when a lot of this crap started to appear on normal models, instead of just luxury ones like this, the car that killed Diana

Mercedes-Benz W140 Electronic Stability Program (ESP) was introduced in 1996. ESP used on-board computers to improve vehicle handling response during difficult driving conditions. This was a Mercedes developed system, which has since been licensed to other manufacturers.

Imagine turning that off remotely, in a car of that weight, at speed. I haven't checked what sort of throttle it had

[stompk]

if it's not a direct link between your foot and the throttle, it can be intercepted

if the ECU controls it, that can be reprogrammed, perhaps remotely, with a time delay, after which any throttle input will max out

if wireless does find it's way onto cars, any bastard with the right frequency can take over your car

seriously, this is child's play for the sort of people who pulled off 911 nearly ten years ago. if there is a way to control your car remtoley, htey re all over it already.



What's scary is how they are keeping the mechanics, engineers quiet about it.

[stompk]

Toyota (and most others') throttle pedals are not wireless, they are cable-less. There seems to be some confusion/lost in translation.



Please, provide a link to support your claim.

[ownoiz]

Toyota (and most others') throttle pedals are not wireless, they are cable-less. There seems to be some confusion/lost in translation.

There are two variable resistors in the pedal position sensor, and two switches. The input of these are fed to the ECU as "driver demand" quotients and combined with other quotients such as smoke, cruise control, wheelspin regulation, transmission demand, torque limit etc.. to calculate the actual throttle position for the electronic throttle on the engine (or the diesel injection pump/s on diesels.)

I think people are looking for something that isn't there. If this method existed, it would be easily provable a publicised.
If there is a 'backdoor' to a car, this isn't it.


Yes correct. Cable less. And the pedal assembly which includes the throttle position sensor, still communicates the throttle position to the ECU via an electrical wire.

The pedal is a hall sensor, it senses throttle position and it sends its signal to the ECU via an electrical wire, and the ECU then sends its signal to the throttle motor with another electrical wire.

That link above to the BMW board, well they would be hard pressed to know where to put the oil in let alone know what they are talking about.

OP, if you want to find the truth, go find a toyota and look at the pedal assembly, take a photo, and you will see where the wires plug in that go to the ECU. Same goes for BMW, Merc, GM Dodge and the rest of them. Or you can take my word for it :D :p or look at the following information...

First an overview... http://www.picoauto.com/applications/electronic-throttle-control.html

Then some real pics of cars, not links to write ups and preppies with daddys 5 series on bmw forums...

TOYOTAS HAVE THE PLUG ON TOP...heres a toyota pedal built by DEnso, orange and blue wires on top go to the ECU...IT DOES NOT TRANSMIT TO THE ECU IN WIRELESS!

http://www.tuneyfish.com/blog/denso-pedal-toyota.jpg

NOW HERES ANOTHER PIC OF HOW IT WORKS. NOTE WHERE IT SAYS "ELECTRIC WIRES" and SOURCES IS "TOYOTA"

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs019.snc3/12637_182148389425_96033299425_2921568_897625_n.jp g

NOW IF YOU STILL WANT TO FANTASIZE THAT THE DENSO PEDAL ASSEMBLY PIC ABOVE IS A PHOTOSHOP, then i suppose a few official toyota documents cant hurt....note the plug boss in the top of the pedal assemblies, where the wires that go to the ECU plug in.

http://tuneyfish.com/blog/cts-pedal-denso.jpg

And finally Toyotas official PDF, showing the CTS and DENSO pedals. THE CTS built pedal is the ones that have been playing up , fitted to USA cars. Japanese and Australian cars have the Denso pedal. Again, LOOK FOR THE PLUG BOSS AT THE TOP OF THE PEDAL IN BOTH PICS.

http://tuneyfish.com/blog/cts-pedal.pdf

Now i could keep going and posting individual images of pedals from NEW holdens, camaros, corvettes, bmws dodges, fords mercedes and more, but frankly, your claims are already debunked because the cars are there sitting in showrooms and workshops for all to see...(go stick yer head under the dash and look) , so i cant be fucked. :D :cool:
.

[fuzzylogic]

Please, provide a link to support your claim.
http://www.onlinefreeebooks.net/automotive-machinery-power-equipment-ebooks/toyota/wiring-diagram-toyota-pdf.html

Maybe you'd like to pay -> http://www.wirediagram.com/toyota.htm

Or how about buying a Hayne's manual -> http://www.haynes.com/products/productID/518

You could go to a Toyota garage and ask them to look. Or just buy a Toyota and find out for yourself.

Or you could sit spreading shit on the internet.

I know which one you'll do.

[batou]

Aww ownoiz... Didn't you read this thread?
[/URL][URL="http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105227"]Where Do Skeptics Get The Idea That We Owe Them? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105227)

You big shill :p

[stompk]

NOW IF YOU STILL WANT TO FANTASIZE THAT THE DENSO PEDAL ASSEMBLY PIC ABOVE IS A PHOTOSHOP, then i suppose a few official toyota documents cant hurt....note the plug boss in the top of the pedal assemblies, where the wires that go to the ECU plug in.

Again, LOOK FOR THE PLUG BOSS AT THE TOP OF THE PEDAL IN BOTH PICS.

http://tuneyfish.com/blog/cts-pedal.pdf



Unless the pedal assy was battery powered, it would need a plug at the top to transmit and receive info from the powered transceiver to the powered transceiver in the black box (ETCS(i)) which takes input from other signals in the car, runs algorithms, and affects the throttle body through a harness.

The signal from the throttle transceiver and the ETCS(i) is wireless.

[fuzzylogic]

Unless the pedal assy was battery powered, it would need a plug at the top to transmit and receive info from the powered transceiver to the powered transceiver in the black box
Not according to your patent.

[ownoiz]

The signal from the throttle transceiver and the ETCS(i) is wireless.


No it isnt. Its just like all the other hall effect sensor signals on vehicles, machines and tractors, that communicte a variable voltage to the ECU (black box or whatever you wish to call it) WITH ELECTRIC WIRES.

Crankshaft position sensor - the same.

ABS/wheel/roadspeed/diff sensor - the same.

Tachometer on diesel engines - the same.

All hall effect. There is no cost advantage in converting hall effect signals to bluetooth/wireless form inside the pedal assembly and then transmitting them to the ECU, its easier, cheaper and less complicated with a few low amperage rated thin wires.

Im done here man, you can keep chasing those rainbows. :p :D :cool:



You big shill :p


Someone was bound to figure it out sooner or later :D
.

[druggalo]

tha look on toyodaz fase
"when he sayz (we just grew 2 fast)"
tellz ppl there wuz prior knowledge
how could they have knot been aware of these so called defects???

they only do recalls when tha lawsuit seatllements for tha deaths of victoms/customers costs more then tha price of fixing every unit sold

mats on tha floor makin tha ccellerator stick???
yah ryght ,bullshyt excuse

[stompk]

No it isnt. Its just like all the other hall effect sensor signals on vehicles, machines and tractors, that communicte a variable voltage to the ECU (black box or whatever you wish to call it) WITH ELECTRIC WIRES.



The very concept of the hall effect is a wireless sensor. It's an eleectromagnet placed between a pair of earth magnets. . . so right of the bat, you debunk yourself.

[eternal wheel]

http://www.onlinefreeebooks.net/automotive-machinery-power-equipment-ebooks/toyota/wiring-diagram-toyota-pdf.html

Maybe you'd like to pay -> http://www.wirediagram.com/toyota.htm

Or how about buying a Hayne's manual -> http://www.haynes.com/products/productID/518

You could go to a Toyota garage and ask them to look. Or just buy a Toyota and find out for yourself.

Or you could sit spreading shit on the internet.

I know which one you'll do.


top post. :cool:

yet again the stompk bullshit machine is wheeled out.....:rolleyes:
i'm surprised he hasn't blamed haarp yet.... oh, wait.... he has... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[hunter77]

fly by wire or drive by wire, is common on alot of cars now, most new cars use it, its not just a toyota thing .vw and audi use it on alot of models, as do many other manufacturers. its all linked through the ecu ( the cars brain) which should have a fail safe mechaniscm. which in this case obviously hasnt worked.

its worth remebering that a manual throttle can also jam and is if anything more prone to doing so.

ive also seen this happen on other cars , a ford mustang is one example.
there is also fly by wire steering on some luxury cars now, which imo as a mechanic is even scarier:(

[stompk]

top post. :cool:

yet again the stompk bullshit machine is wheeled out.....:rolleyes:
i'm surprised he hasn't blamed haarp yet.... oh, wait.... he has... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Do you have a reason to be a jackass all the time, or is that just how your government friends like it?

[stompk]

fly by wire or drive by wire,(

This is about drive by wireless. :cool:

[eternal wheel]

Go to hell.
insult and abuse. the sign of a lost argument.

i hear they keep the haarps in the 'other place'.... :p

[hunter77]

This is about drive by wireless. :cool:

same thing;)

[stompk]

same thing;)

You should try to make that concept with your cellphone. Oh wait, that would be a landline.
:confused:

[hunter77]

You should try to make that concept with your cellphone. Oh wait, that would be a landline.
:confused:

all that wireless throttle is , a remote signall sent to the throttle body telling it how much to open. through pedal petentiometrs through to the ecu.

i should know about this its my job

its been around on bms since 1988

http://www.picoauto.com/applications/electronic-throttle-control.html

[waylander]

I think the problem with Toyota accelertors sticking is over exaggerated.

My computer keyboard is made by toyota and its been fineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Waylander:p

[hunter77]

also the car knows it s own basic setting as they are factory programed.

if the throttle body get dirty or carboned up the flap wont open or close properly , putting the cars basic settings out.

this is also a common occurance on most cars,

just because a car has no cable or is wireless doesn't mean the manual pedal cant stick, or get caught behind a mat ect. it the same pricipal. pedal jammed down more throttle.

also the body itself could , could become jammed as this also although run wirlessly is still a mechanical part.

reading stuff on the internet and misinterpreting it is a common problem. ive lost count of the people who come into work to me with a problem, and when diagnosed there first statement is " well thats not what it said on the internet".

i know how fly by wire, wireless or drive by wire works . i deal with it all the time. so please dont make me out to be a mug and stupid.i was just trying to explain how it works to you.

[h2pogo]

all that wireless throttle is , a remote signall sent to the throttle body telling it how much to open. through pedal petentiometrs through to the ecu.

i should know about this its my job

its been around on bms since 1988

http://www.picoauto.com/applications/electronic-throttle-control.html

what models did bms have fly by wires.i never seen one on a bm.

[stompk]

i know how fly by wire, wireless or drive by wire works . i deal with it all the time. so please dont make me out to be a mug and stupid.i was just trying to explain how it works to you.

So, are you saying the throttle signal is sent via wireless, like I've been saying all along?

[hunter77]

what models did bms have fly by wires.i never seen one on a bm.

earlier the 7 series in 1988 the first time it was used in general motoring and all the new ones that i know of. you won't realy notice as the pedal feels the same.

its also mentioned on the link i posted:)

[eternal wheel]

i was just trying to explain how it works to you.

don't waste your time. he won't listen if you don't agree with him.

[hunter77]

So, are you saying the throttle signal is sent via wireless, like I've been saying all along?

yes and no the peadal side is wire less:) but the throttle body is connected to the ecu by a plug. so its only semi wire less( not fully) and the signal most pass thriugh the ecu:)

[dude111]

WIRELESS?????

YOU GOTTA BE FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!!!!!

What a stupid fucking way to apply gas,how easy would it be for some asshole to send a signal to car and have it SPEED UP UNCONTROLLABLY!!!!!

I tell ya,THIS WORLD HAS GOTTON SO FUCKING CHEAP AND FUCKED UP,ITS NOT FUNNY!!!!!!!

[stompk]

yes and no the peadal side is wire less:) but the throttle body is connected to the ecu by a plug. so its only semi wire less( not fully) and the signal most pass thriugh the ecu:)

Thank you for confirming the research. :):eek:

[snapdragon]

WIRELESS?????

YOU GOTTA BE FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!!!!!

What a stupid fucking way to apply gas,how easy would it be for some asshole to send a signal to car and have it SPEED UP UNCONTROLLABLY!!!!!

I tell ya,THIS WORLD HAS GOTTON SO FUCKING CHEAP AND FUCKED UP,ITS NOT FUNNY!!!!!!!

I haven't seen any wireless throttles, or proof on the internet, other than pie in the sky patents. Does anyone have any before I file it under B for bullshit?

[dunadan]

OK, this whole Toyota thing has bugged me since the beginning.

First, they blamed it on bad driving, then floormats, then sticky accelerator assy.

Each time, I've raised the BS flag. None of it made sense. I knew they were hiding something.

My suspicions were confirmed when I started searching for wireless throttle assy.

Believe me, they don't want this known. Why? Because the military/homeland security is using a wireless signal technology they don't want us to know about.

At first, all I could find was Toyota saying that a signal is sent from pedal to control computer, called the ETCS(i) which is outlined in this class action lawsuit. And yes, this dates back to 2002
http://www.scribd.com/doc/26453850/Baumkel-v-Toyota-class-action-lawsuit

I searched schematics, forums, nothing would tell me HOW the signal is being sent. And plenty of people have asked the question.

Then, I found this


http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:8IyLNlurZyEJ:www.edmunds.com/toyota/tundra/2004/consumerreview.1.100368160.date.html+%22wireless+t hrottle+control%22+Toyota&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Now, this was in the comment section in a well respected mechanic's website.

I wanted further proof. I searched for hours. The effort going on to keep this quiet is immense, suggesting a conspiracy of international importance.

Then I found this.


https://secure.acteaz.org/SummerConference2009/SessionList.aspx

Proof that Toyota is not driving by wire but wireless! Cable is expensive, so the savings were probably a bunch. Wasn't Toyota bragging about how much money they saved? I have used wireless to control electrical equipment when it was too expensive to run a signal cable.

Problem. You know how your cellphone can receive interference, drop calls? Well, any wireless signal can be interfered with. And, it probably can purposely be controlled.

This fly-by-wire technology just means - to me - that electonics and computers now operate systems in the place of e.g hydraulics etc. Also FBW is now used - on some brands - now replaces accelerator cables with electronics/computers/pulses and wire!

However I have wondered - in the UK - if such transmitters as the Police Force's 'Tetra' system (coupled with military MW transmitters etc.) would have an effect on such hi-tech vehicles - as well as people and animals?!

My father's car - also Japanese - has had some issues with extended overrun etc. this is also compunded by the fact that the car is diesel etc.

[hunter77]

Thank you for confirming the research. :):eek:

but as i said it's not just a toyota thing its on nearly every modern car, so i don't understand the toyota angle? it's been going for years. and by the law of averages it will go wrong.

as far as i know car ecu's are not open to wireless communication they must be accessed by a 16 pin terminal plug , located in the vehicle. thats how every diagnostic machine on the market , that i have used works.

and on most you still need certain codes to access them.

[stompk]

but as i said it's not just a toyota thing its on nearly every modern car, so i don't understand the toyota angle? it's been going for years. and by the law of averages it will go wrong.



I think Toyota is just a patsy. Part of the new world order. Take one for the team type of idea.

Thanks for your input.

[hunter77]

I haven't seen any wireless throttles, or proof on the internet, other than pie in the sky patents. Does anyone have any before I file it under B for bullshit?

mostly all new cars use fly by wire. ask at any garage.

also check this link http://www.picoauto.com/applications/electronic-throttle-control.html

also i work on cars that use it every day.:)

if you dont belive me and own a modern car, check for yourself. there will be no throttle cable , just petentiometers.:)

[hunter77]

This fly-by-wire technology just means - to me - that electonics and computers now operate systems in the place of e.g hydraulics etc. Also FBW is now used - on some brands - now replaces accelerator cables with electronics/computers/pulses and wire!

However I have wondered - in the UK - if such transmitters as the Police Force's 'Tetra' system (coupled with military MW transmitters etc.) would have an effect on such hi-tech vehicles - as well as people and animals?!

My father's car - also Japanese - has had some issues with extended overrun etc. this is also compunded by the fact that the car is diesel etc.

thats correct, its used to down grade the amount of manual parts,and to give more responsive and smooth acceleration.

if your dads cars a turbo diesel, and is overunning , its most likely the seals in the turbo.

oil is leakead into the turbo and if unchecked into the engine. this causes it to overboost and eventually overun or as we say in the trade " turbo" .this is when the oil leaks into the bores and the engine runs on the oil causing it to race to the rev limit, eventually the oil cannot be compressed and bends the con rods and fuck the engine basically:(

[entrangermercenary]

thats correct, its used to down grade the amount of manual parts,and to give more responsive and smooth acceleration.

if your dads cars a turbo diesel, and is overunning , its most likely the seals in the turbo.

oil is leakead into the turbo and if unchecked into the engine. this causes it to overboost and eventually overun or as we say in the trade " turbo" .this is when the oil leaks into the bores and the engine runs on the oil causing it to race to the rev limit, eventually the oil cannot be compressed and bends the con rods and fuck the engine basically:(

:confused::confused::confused: hey but at least u changed your hat :D

[eternal wheel]

mostly all new cars use fly by wire. ask at any garage.

also check this link http://www.picoauto.com/applications/electronic-throttle-control.html

also i work on cars that use it every day.:)

if you dont belive me and own a modern car, check for yourself. there will be no throttle cable , just petentiometers.:)

so you'll know that fly-by-wire is not wireless.

fly-by-wire is just that, a wire from a pot going to the cpu, variying resistance as you press the throttle down to tell the engine cpu how much you want to accelerate.

wireless is a transmitter sending radio frequency transmissions from the throttle pedal to the engine cpu. i don't know of any cars with that.
this is what stompk says is affected by haarp/magic green fog/pixie dust.

[hunter77]

so you'll know that fly-by-wire is not wireless.

fly-by-wire is just that, a wire from a pot going to the cpu, variying resistance as you press the throttle down to tell the engine cpu how much you want to accelerate.

wireless is a transmitter sending radio frequency transmissions from the throttle pedal to the engine cpu. i don't know of any cars with that.
this is what stompk says is affected by haarp/magic green fog/pixie dust.

have you read the thread? and its an ecu ( electronic control unit) i have never stated that its a fully wireless system . i have also said that the throttle body is connected by a plug. ffs mate read a bit( rant over)

IAM NOT TRYING TO GIVE HIM AMMUNITION. iam mearly poining out that there is no manual cable. and that some cars pedals do work by remote sensor.

i have never stated that the system is prone to outside inetrferance.

please read before you accuse. iam not here to make enemies or to back him up. he's taking 2 + 2 and making 5 not me. so i suggest you direct your hostility towards him.

and if he is wrong so what, is it really worth you getting so hot under the collar over. have you never been wrong?

[hunter77]

:confused::confused::confused: hey but at least u changed your hat :D

cheers mate , just for you;):D

[ownoiz]

IAM NOT TRYING TO GIVE HIM AMMUNITION. i am mearly poining out that there is no manual cable. and that some cars pedals do work by remote sensor.



yes and no the peadal side is wire less


Cable less yes, there is no cable that pulls on the throttle butterfly. But 'wireless' , no, the pedal assemblies on all electronic throttle equipped cars have a plug with electric wires that send the potentiometer signal to the ECU.

Do you understand that the OP is saying that the pedal assembly transmits its throttle position signal to the ECU with wireless bluetooth? Radiowaves. Through the air.

And that the ECU is then equipped to read these signals, pull them out of thin air, without any electric wire joining the two. Like a mobile phone communicates to a tower. This is false and disinfo, what the OP is saying.

When in fact the pedal assembly on all electronic throttle cars is joined to the ECU with wires, connected by a plug, just like the throttle motor is as you said here.


i have also said that the throttle body is connected by a plug.


Yes and so is the pedal.

_________________________________________________


as far as i know car ecu's are not open to wireless communication they must be accessed by a 16 pin terminal plug , located in the vehicle. thats how every diagnostic machine on the market , that i have used works.


And thats why they cant communicate to the pedal without electric wires joining the two. The OP is getting his 'wires crossed'.


The very concept of the hall effect is a wireless sensor. It's an eleectromagnet placed between a pair of earth magnets. . . so right of the bat, you debunk yourself.

Thats not what you have been saying is wireless, you are implying that the pedal communicates to the ECU without electric wires, like a mobile phone communicates with a phone tower when it doesnt.

To use another phone analogy, THE PEDAL ASSEMBLY IS ESSENTIALLY A 'LANDLINE' , it still has wires that transmit a voltage to the ECU...the variation in voltage tells the ECU how far the human operator has depressed the pedal.

If you want to change your story as you go and now go on about the hall sensor being wireless, ok, the signal is picked up with magnets that dont touch and just move past eachother, missing eachother by a millimeter or less


There are two primary types of throttle position sensors: a potentiometer or a Hall Effect sensor (magnetic device). The potentiometer is a satisfactory way for non-critical applications such as volume control on a radio, but as it has a wiper contact rubbing against a resistance element, and dirt and wear between the wiper and the resistor can cause erratic readings. The more reliable solution is the magnetic coupling that makes no physical contact, so will never be subject to failing by wear.


Source: Electronic throttle control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes again the Hall sensor is non contact, by a millimeter or so, no outside influence can mess that signal up. So the 'wireless' part might be one millimeter, and with such a self contained unit, to influence the signal you would need to create interference so powerful, and close to the sensor, that the rest of the vehicle, and heck everything in the immediate area, wouldnt run either.

Thank you for confirming the research. :):eek:

Research? Go get a pedal assembly and pull it apart, if you find a wireless transmitter in there then you can post some pics here right?

Its threads like these that give this place a bad name.

Workshops and technicians around the world would be having a laugh if they were reading this.

Maybe thats why you are here. Ok then. :cool:
.

[hunter77]

Cable less yes, there is no cable that pulls on the throttle butterfly. But 'wireless' , no, the pedal assemblies on all cars have a plug with electric wires that send the potentiometer signal to the ECU.

Do you understand that the OP is saying that the pedal assembly transmits its throttle position signal to the ECU with wireless bluetooth? Radiowaves. Through the air.

And that the ECU is then equipped to read these signals, pull them out of thin air, without any electric wire joining the two. Like a mobile phone communicates to a tower. This is false and disinfo, what the OP is saying.

When in fact the pedal assembly on all electronic throttle cars is joined to the ECU with wires, connected by a plug, just like the throttle motor is as you said here.



Yes and so is the pedal.

_________________________________________________



And thats why they cant communicate to the pedal without electric wires joining the two. The OP is getting his 'wires crossed'.




Thats not what you have been saying is wireless, you are implying that the pedal communicates to the ECU without electric wires, like a mobile phone communicates with a phone tower when it doesnt.

To use another phone analogy, THE PEDAL ASSEMBLY IS ESSENTIALLY A 'LANDLINE' , it still has wires that transmit a voltage to the ECU...the variation in voltage tells the ECU how far the human operator has depressed the pedal.

If you want to change your story as you go and now go on about the hall sensor being wireless, ok, the signal is picked up with magnets that dont touch and just move past eachother, missing eachother by a millimeter or less



Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_throttle_control

Yes again the Hall sensor is non contact, by a millimeter or so, no outside influence can mess that signal up. So the 'wireless' part might be one millimeter, and with such a self contained unit, to influence the signal you would need to create interference so powerful, and close to the sensor, that the rest of the vehicle, and heck everything in the immediate area, wouldnt run either.



Research? Go get a pedal assembly and pull it apart, if you find a wireless transmitter in there then you can post some pics here right?

Its threads like these that give this place a bad name.

Workshops and technicians around the world would be having a laugh if they were reading this.

Maybe thats why you are here. Ok then. :cool:
.

i agree with what your saying mate. as i said the wire less means cable free or to put it better ,no manual control hence the name fly by wire. there is some cars that use wireless technology , but even these are hard wired ( connected in some way) parking sensors are a good example of this.

i don't disagree with anything youve said . i was just trying to give over my everyday working knowledge on the subject , i was not trying to make any of the op's conclusions . he did that himself:) all that fly by wire is in simle terms is no direct accelerator cable to the throttle body , end of:)

[hunter77]

i can also catergorically say that i have never come across a totally wireless syatem in any motor vehicle:)

[h2pogo]

I have never heard of wire less sensors on cars but they do exist on other craft and if a corp was to pioneer the idea Toyota probability would..

[jakemaverick]

good work/ good find......

it's been knwon to be coming for a long time......obvious incentive, it's so that the 'so-called' good guys, as tehy like to be known' can switch you off when they're chasing you..............or turn you into a suicide bomber!

and massive costs saving for the manufacturer and govt cover up/ protection/ bailout if anything goes 'wrong'....

[ownoiz]

i don't disagree with anything youve said . i was just trying to give over my everyday working knowledge on the subject , i was not trying to make any of the op's conclusions . he did that himself:)


I know he did :)

I already came to the conclusion that you obviously know how the system works, only quoted ya to show how the OP was spinning it to suit his angle, because some of the terminology the manufactures use themselves is, well confusing to those who dont look at the system in real life, like the OP and possibly others looking on.

The term 'Wireless' should really be 'cable less'. But the manufacturers do use the term 'wireless' , thats where people get confused.

Then others use the term 'Fly by wire'. I know thats what some of the bimmerheads call it on the forums.

Again, 'Fly by wire' should only be used in regards to aeroplane systems, not cars, since cars dont fly.

Really the correct term is "Electronic Throttle Control" and in this case i have to say wikipedia is correct with the terminology

Electronic throttle control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:cool:
.

[dunadan]

thats correct, its used to down grade the amount of manual parts,and to give more responsive and smooth acceleration.

if your dads cars a turbo diesel, and is overunning , its most likely the seals in the turbo.

oil is leakead into the turbo and if unchecked into the engine. this causes it to overboost and eventually overun or as we say in the trade " turbo" .this is when the oil leaks into the bores and the engine runs on the oil causing it to race to the rev limit, eventually the oil cannot be compressed and bends the con rods and fuck the engine basically:(

The car isnt all that old - but I will pass on the info - thanks for your comments/advice:)

[entrangermercenary]

I know he did :)

I already came to the conclusion that you obviously know how the system works, only quoted ya to show how the OP was spinning it to suit his angle, because some of the terminology the manufactures use themselves is, well confusing to those who dont look at the system in real life, like the OP and possibly others looking on.

The term 'Wireless' should really be 'cable less'. But the manufacturers do use the term 'wireless' , thats where people get confused.

Then others use the term 'Fly by wire'. I know thats what some of the bimmerheads call it on the forums.

Again, 'Fly by wire' should only be used in regards to aeroplane systems, not cars, since cars dont fly.

Really the correct term is "Electronic Throttle Control" and in this case i have to say wikipedia is correct with the terminology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...rottle_control

:cool:
.

Yes IVE got u down as a techie when you were posting a while ago :) Its good to know there are some knowledgeable people in all different fields on here !!

[ownoiz]

I have never heard of wire less sensors on cars but they do exist on other craft and if a corp was to pioneer the idea Toyota probability would..

In the future who knows.

But as of 2010 Toyotas pedal assembly which includes an integral throttle position sensor, cannot transmit a wireless signal, because all it is is a piece of moulded plastic with a return spring to give it some resistance as you press it, and a hall sensor inside, hall sensor is joined to a plug at the top, wiring loom plugs into this hall sensor plug and leads to the ECU.
.

[stompk]

i agree with what your saying mate. as i said the wire less means cable free or to put it better ,no manual control hence the name fly by wire. there is some cars that use wireless technology , but even these are hard wired ( connected in some way) parking sensors are a good example of this.

From previous post

yes and no the peadal side is wire less but the throttle body is connected to the ecu by a plug. so its only semi wire less( not fully) and the signal most pass thriugh the ecu



You do realize you are completely contradicting yourself, don't you?

[hunter77]

I know he did :)

I already came to the conclusion that you obviously know how the system works, only quoted ya to show how the OP was spinning it to suit his angle, because some of the terminology the manufactures use themselves is, well confusing to those who dont look at the system in real life, like the OP and possibly others looking on.

The term 'Wireless' should really be 'cable less'. But the manufacturers do use the term 'wireless' , thats where people get confused.

Then others use the term 'Fly by wire'. I know thats what some of the bimmerheads call it on the forums.

Again, 'Fly by wire' should only be used in regards to aeroplane systems, not cars, since cars dont fly.

Really the correct term is "Electronic Throttle Control" and in this case i have to say wikipedia is correct with the terminology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_throttle_control

:cool:
.

were all bimmer heads in the trade then cause thats the term we use:D

love that word by the way:D

never heard that term used tbh etc ,but it might be used in other country other than than england:)

as for your post its true and imo the op is more concerned about proving hhis own point than the facts:)

i think he read the term wireless and got ahaead of himself, but hey easy mistake to make , weve all done that:)

[h2pogo]

In the future who knows.

But as of 2010 Toyotas pedal assembly which includes an integral throttle position sensor, cannot transmit a wireless signal, because all it is is a piece of moulded plastic with a return spring to give it some resistance as you press it, and a hall sensor inside, hall sensor is joined to a plug at the top, wiring loom plugs into this hall sensor plug and leads to the ECU.
.

i thought as much.Toyota do over complicate things..they should botch a bigger spring in:rolleyes:

[ownoiz]

You do realize you are completely contradicting yourself, don't you?


He understands how it works, so it doesnt matter if his post has been written in a way that you can quote and pick at the wording, and you know why?

Because the pedal assemblys on all new Toyotas are just a lump of plastic with an integral hall sensor, which connects to the ECU with wires.

Heres another reminder, look close and you and anyone else will clearly see at least three wires, orange, blue and a little yellow.

http://www.tuneyfish.com/blog/denso-pedal-toyota.jpg

Seriously dude, if you arent a troll, all i can suggest is you put all that energy into issues more pressing.
.

[entrangermercenary]

were all bimmer heads in the trade then cause thats the term we use:D

love that word by the way:D

never heard that term used tbh etc ,but it might be used in other country other than than england:)

as for your post its true and imo the op is more concerned about proving hhis own point than the facts:)

i think he read the term wireless and got ahaead of himself, but hey easy mistake to make , weve all done that:)

Seems like we have 2 pros... yourself and ownoiz against the other. Now in my mind pros can be wrong if other pros come on and say its shite what you 2 are talking. Untill then the pros have it :D by the way you have to pay me wich will make a change :eek:

Anyway the only flyby wire I came across was this Milan

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Rc80Mpm6gylqbM:http://www.eliteukforces.info/images/weapons/royal-marines-milan.jpg

So Hunter shouldn't you be doing a hundred 2 finger push ups and bed !!! :D

[hunter77]

i thought as much.Toyota do over complicate things..they should botch a bigger spring in:rolleyes:

a mate of mine jameie , a fellow kickboxer work's at a toyota dealership, his Crew of 8 are now doing ten hrs a day on pedal recalls . 30 mins a time. 1 extra bolt and 20 mins software update . great for the dealerships but bad news for the mother ship cost wise

[hunter77]

Seems like we have 2 pros... yourself and ownoiz against the other. Now in my mind pros can be wrong if other pros come on and say its shite what you 2 are talking. Untill then the pros have it :D by the way you have to pay me wich will make a change :eek:

Anyway the only flyby wire I came across was this Milan

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Rc80Mpm6gylqbM:http://www.eliteukforces.info/images/weapons/royal-marines-milan.jpg

So Hunter shouldn't you be doing a hundred 2 finger push ups and bed !!! :D

on it now sir, and by the way we do em on our fists for some reason inclined on a chair, and i can do a hundred just about . ;) but mot alot more;)

is that picture of one of them there stinger missiles?

[hunter77]

you do realize you are completely contradicting yourself, don't you?

i meant no cable:) as in direct throttle cable to the the peadal or throttle body:)

[hunter77]

AS I also said the only way to interogate the cars ecu hence brain is through a 16 pin plug inside the car;) you missed that bit out:)

[entrangermercenary]

on it now sir, and by the way we do em on our fists for some reason inclined on a chair, and i can do a hundred just about . ;) but mot alot more;)

is that picture of one of them there stinger missiles?

Milan anti tank but a good bunker buster. Obviously I was more refined :)

This is a stinger

http://www.flv.dk/billeder/Stinger_01.jpg

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/stinger-missile-launcher.jpg

[hunter77]

cheers geezer, when we going to meet for a cold one?
:)

[stompk]

I don't know how you guys define wireless, but I define it as


Definitions of wireless on the Web:

* radio: medium for communication
* transmission by radio waves
* radio receiver: an electronic receiver that detects and demodulates and amplifies transmitted signals
* radio: a communication system based on broadcasting electromagnetic waves
* having no wires; "a wireless security system"

define: wireless - Google Search

Maybe you gentlemen should debrief each other first. :p

[motleyhoo]

This is one of the dumbest set of posts I have ever seen on Icke. Toyota is not using wireless communication between the throttle and the ECU, or between anything else related to the drivetrain or fuel system. These cars use fly-by-wire, but like with anything else, some people are using the wrong term or slang to describe it. Fly-by-wire just means there are servos and relays and the ECU between the throttle and the EFI throttle body instead of a mechanical cable.

The throttle problems in the Toyotas do not have anything to do with the fly-by-wire itself, it's a software defect that was likely caused by substandard quality control testing in a rush to get out a product that is a lot more complex than the previous generation.

Don't ask me to prove this. I know this because I am an Engineer and I know how cars work (I just bought a new one with an advanced diesel engine) and I have common sense.

.

[ownoiz]

This is one of the dumbest set of posts I have ever seen on Icke. Toyota is not using wireless communication between the throttle and the ECU, or between anything else related to the drivetrain or fuel system. These cars use fly-by-wire, but like with anything else, some people are using the wrong term or slang to describe it. Fly-by-wire just means there are servos and relays and the ECU between the throttle and the EFI throttle body instead of a mechanical cable.

Don't ask me to prove this. I know this because I am an Engineer and I know how cars work (I just bought a new one with an advanced diesel engine) and I have common sense.

.

Word.

P.S. But i still prefer the term "Electronic throttle control" over "fly by wire" :D :cool:

"Fly by wire" - Google search. Note that the results pertain to aircraft.

[URL="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=electronic+throttle+control&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq="]"Electronic Throttle Contol" - Google search. Note that the results pertain to automobiles.

I really dont know how/why the term "fly by wire" came about in regards to Automobiles, but i acknowledge that people do use the term, since the beginning with the first mass production cars to have it, the 750 and 850 V12 BMWs.

P.P.S.


The throttle problems in the Toyotas do not have anything to do with the fly-by-wire itself, it's a software defect that was likely caused by substandard quality control testing in a rush to get out a product that is a lot more complex than the previous generation.


The link i provided in one of my previous posts, a copy of Toyotas official technical recall pdf, dated 2010, states that the pedal assembly is at fault, the one manufactured by CTS, while ones manufactired by Denso are OK.

[URL="http://tuneyfish.com/blog/cts-pedal.pdf"]2010 Toyota recall pdf (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=fly+by+wire&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images)

There is a current Toyota software fault in the Prius though, which is causing the ABS brake system to behave in a not so conventional manner, is also currently under recall and is fixed by dealerships uploading a new program to the control unit computer that has updated parameters. This is a seperate issue.
.

[eternal wheel]

have you read the thread? and its an ecu ( electronic control unit) i have never stated that its a fully wireless system . i have also said that the throttle body is connected by a plug. ffs mate read a bit( rant over)

IAM NOT TRYING TO GIVE HIM AMMUNITION. iam mearly poining out that there is no manual cable. and that some cars pedals do work by remote sensor.

i have never stated that the system is prone to outside inetrferance.

please read before you accuse. iam not here to make enemies or to back him up. he's taking 2 + 2 and making 5 not me. so i suggest you direct your hostility towards him.

and if he is wrong so what, is it really worth you getting so hot under the collar over. have you never been wrong?
please read my post again, i'm agreeing with you!!!

[ownoiz]

please read my post again, i'm agreeing with you!!!


Everybody here agrees, except the OP :D
.

[the apprentice]

OK, this whole Toyota thing has bugged me since the beginning.

First, they blamed it on bad driving, then floormats, then sticky accelerator assy.

Each time, I've raised the BS flag. None of it made sense. I knew they were hiding something.

My suspicions were confirmed when I started searching for wireless throttle assy.

Believe me, they don't want this known. Why? Because the military/homeland security is using a wireless signal technology they don't want us to know about.

At first, all I could find was Toyota saying that a signal is sent from pedal to control computer, called the ETCS(i) which is outlined in this class action lawsuit. And yes, this dates back to 2002
http://www.scribd.com/doc/26453850/Baumkel-v-Toyota-class-action-lawsuit

I searched schematics, forums, nothing would tell me HOW the signal is being sent. And plenty of people have asked the question.

Then, I found this


http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:8IyLNlurZyEJ:www.edmunds.com/toyota/tundra/2004/consumerreview.1.100368160.date.html+%22wireless+t hrottle+control%22+Toyota&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Now, this was in the comment section in a well respected mechanic's website.

I wanted further proof. I searched for hours. The effort going on to keep this quiet is immense, suggesting a conspiracy of international importance.

Then I found this.


https://secure.acteaz.org/SummerConference2009/SessionList.aspx

Proof that Toyota is not driving by wire but wireless! Cable is expensive, so the savings were probably a bunch. Wasn't Toyota bragging about how much money they saved? I have used wireless to control electrical equipment when it was too expensive to run a signal cable.

Problem. You know how your cellphone can receive interference, drop calls? Well, any wireless signal can be interfered with. And, it probably can purposely be controlled.

Good reaserch Stompk you even have a mention dedicated here

http://topic.feeds4all.nl/Toyota-Accelerators-are-wireless/1720056341.aspx


I was a vehicle tech for many year and I have worked on these things at Subaru and Mitsubishi and they all had a hot wire from the reastat to the throttle body, this was classed as fly by wire, they tried pure radio but found it had too many outside interferences and was on the whole dangerous, so opted for the solid state versions.

This technology has many other uses like a throttles that can be dissabled by an outside signal to stop cars in a TWOK and the other way around, this was suggested in the Diana case, I would much prefer the old fashioned cable which you can repair yourself, but they don't want you doing this today, its all got out of hand and one of the reasons we don't have a car any more.

In some UK GM engine bays there are over 240 different censors all working together, what a bloody nightmare they are, if we simply stuck to lower technology, cars could be so much cheaper when bought new.

Give me a moggy 1000, with points ignition single carb and a bag full of spanners and I will keep that thing going for ever, we don't need all this high tech in a vehicle that gets one from A to B, we simply don't.

[les_paul_robot]

I am an Engineer and I know how cars work (I just bought a new one with an advanced diesel engine) and I have common sense.
.
More shame on you! :p

[dunadan]

Everybody here agrees, except the OP :D
.

Ah ha!

Good point!:D

[stompk]

Ah ha!

Good point!:D

Here is a website showing how Toyota tests their transceivers in the throttle system from outside interference. There is even an international standard.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/2010-toyota-electronic-throttle-154266.aspx

This next photograph shows yet another vehicle testing. This will be another immunity test that we do called the onboard transceiver immunity test. You may remember from the part testing, we do a two-way radio interference check, and again, we do the same type of thing for the vehicle level, putting it through the pace again. In this case, there isn't a particular international standard, so what we've done is referenced a few of the standards shown there, and we've blended those together to pick up kind of the worst-case situation.

We do the transceiver test at the frequencies shown there, and as you can see in the photograph, again, we do this in a driving condition, so that all of the systems are powered and that the tall blue-wrapped bar that you see in the forefront of the photograph is actually holding the antenna, and we put it again in very close proximity to the vehicle, even closer than what maybe you would see driving down the road, which is a really important point.


Here is one of SAE's standards.
http://engineers.ihs.com/document/abstract/ZCERJBAAAAAAAAAA

I'll accept apologies on a one by one basis.:mad:

[eternal wheel]

I'll accept apologies on a one by one basis.:mad:

don't hold your breath.... :)

[simmo]

Cable is expensive? It's not 'signal cable' that is used in regular throttle assembly's, it's just a standard woven steel cable.

[stompk]

don't hold your breath.... :)

What? No debunking. No lame, good for nothing post. Oh wait...

Here is a Toyota spokesman admitting outside interference is causing the problem, without actually saying.


OPERATOR: Certainly. Our next question is from Brent Snavely from the Detroit Free Press. Please go ahead.

BRENT SNAVELY: Hello, everybody. I guess one question I had here is with regard to all the testing for electromagnetic interference. If that would be the cause of, you know, of unintended acceleration - and I may have missed this - but if that would cause it, would your system detect it and record it as a - in one of the codes that you have preset into the software?

TABAR: So first let me say that throughout all of the testing that I've explained to you today - and then that's just a portion of the testing - throughout all that testing, we have never found any evidence of an acceleration issue from the electronics.

However, as I - as we've mentioned, the system does have various fail safe, and if an interference did occur that was beyond what our testing would have found, then that's exactly why the fail safe is built into the system, and it would detect that and act appropriately.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/2010-toyota-electronic-throttle-154266.aspx

[eternal wheel]

Toyota spokesman admitting outside interference is causing the problem,
really?

without actually saying

aah, so he didn't say it then....

[simmo]

Stompk wtf? Are you serious with that last post? Your wasting everybodies time go away.

[stompk]

Stompk wtf? Are you serious with that last post? Your wasting everybodies time go away.

Don't read it. :cool:

[stompk]

For example, the Mull of Kintyre Chinook helicopter crash in 1989 was originally attributed to gross negligence on the part of the pilot and co-pilot by the RAF Board of Enquiry. A subsequent Parliamentary enquiry produced evidence that the Mark II Chinook, fitted with a full authority digital engine control (FADEC), was subject to spurious engine accelerations and decelerations and that, in the event of a malfunction, there was no provision for the pilot to exercise a manual override of the system. In other words, when the particular incident was placed in the context of other "near miss" events on the particular Chinook and others, it could be seen to be part of a pattern of incidents that could be attributed fairly conclusively to malfunctions of the FADEC.

Alleged incidents of sudden unintended acceleration

Here are a few examples of alleged sudden acceleration incidents:

* During the 1980s over 1000 sudden unintended acceleration incidents involving Audi 5000 vehicles were reported. Reference

* In 1986 4561 Toyota Celicas were recalled because soldered terminals on the cruise control module might develop cracks due to improper application of the coatings to the printed circuit board. The consequence of the defect was said to be that the engine speed would instantly rise and the vehicle could suddenly accelerate, possibly resulting in an accident. [NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 86V132000] Reference

* On October 4, 1996 Chrysler disclosed in a letter to the NHTSA Office of Defects investigation that it knew of 98 incidents of sudden unintended acceleration in the period 1993 to 1996 involving Cherokees and another 241 incidents involving Grand Cherokees. Reference

* In the Autumn of 2000 a Channel 4 TV documentary on runaway cars reported several incidents involving unexplained sudden acceleration in Ford Explorer vehicles in the UK. The vehicles in question had all been on the move and apparently did not have their cruise controls engaged. One Bristol driver, Chris Merrick drove his Explorer into a park to avoid a line of stopped cars ahead of him and was killed when the car hit a tree. About a month after the programme Ford Explorer vehicles in the UK were apparently recalled to correct for a cruise control software fault. Reference

* In December 2002 General Motors Corporation was ordered to pay $80 million to a Missouri woman who lost control while backing down her driveway. The car’s cruise control allegedly caused the vehicle to speed up when she shifted into reverse sending her car 120 feet backwards before it crashed into a tree. The case went to appeal and was then settled privately. Reference

* In early 2003 the driver of a brand new Proton Waja fitted with an electronic throttle got caught in a tropical rainstorm in Malaysia and the vehicle suddenly accelerated to 100Km per hour. 5 days later the driver experienced a second incident. The local dealer claimed that the incidents were due to corrosion on the pins of the ECU and offered to change the unit. The owner refused the offer and successfully negotiated the exchange of the vehicle for another fitted with a manual throttle and without cruise control. Reference AFA private correspondence, available on request.

* On August 7th 2000 Mary Hill of Orlando Florida was driving her younger daughter and two teenage friends home from school in her 1996 BMW 740i. She stopped at traffic lights. When the lights changed, she moved her foot from the brake to the accelerator in order to turn left, a manoeuvre that she performed at that particular junction several times a day. On this occasion the car "took off". She tried to bring the car under control by pumping the brakes but could not slow the car down. The car fishtailed, left the road and hit a tree, sideways on, at a speed that the investigators estimated was 73 mph. Her own daughter and another child were killed. The third child was concussed and she herself was thrown clear of the vehicle. In 2005 she was tried on a charge of vehicular homicide, found guilty and sentenced to 15 years imprisonment. The appeal procedure has been exhausted and she remains in prison for the duration of her sentence. Reference

* January 23rd 2007 Safety concerns take cruiser off road by Paul Leighton Staff Writer Salem News. BEVERLY - Police Chief John Cassola said he has taken another police cruiser off the road "as a precautionary measure" in the wake of Saturday's fatal crash involving another cruiser. The safety of three Police Department cruisers has been called into question by the crash that killed 61-year-old Bonney Burns on Saturday morning on Cabot Street. Burns was sitting in her parked car outside her apartment building when a cruiser driven by Patrolman Stuart Merry crossed the center line and slammed into her Toyota Camry. She was pronounced dead at the scene. Police are not saying what caused Merry to veer across the road. But Cassola has said that Merry's cruiser, along with two other 2006 Ford Crown Victoria cruisers, has had a history of incidents with "random acceleration." Follow up article May 2009

* August 28 2009 August 28th 2009: Model Year 2009 Lexus ES350: 4 DEAD. NBC Video

* December 15th 2009 circa 12.40 pm: Melbourne Australia: Cruise Control Glitch causes a ride of terror.A motorist thought he was going to die during a terrifying ride through Melbourne's eastern suburbs after his cruise control jammed.Chase Weir, 22, was forced to dodge cars during his 30-minute ordeal after his Ford Explorer became stuck on 80km/h.The car's computer malfunctioned when he attempted to take the Burke Road exit from Kew to Greensborough about 12.40pm today.Mr Weir's attempts to stop the vehicle — including braking, shifting the car out of gear and even removing the keys — proved futile as he desperately dialled triple-0 on his mobile phone, The Age reports.Two police cars found the out-of-control 4WD and attempted to clear a path along the Eastlink roadway.But the driver was forced to veer onto the wrong side of the road to avoid banked-up traffic near Monash University's Frankston campus."That's pretty much when I thought, 'I'm dead'," Mr Weir told told Nine News. Nine News Video Report ABC News radio interview

http://www.antony-anderson.com/Cruise/6-freq.htm

[ownoiz]

^ And all of these posts, including Toyota bombarding their cars with interference to check for faults in ALL systems (standard procedure for all manufacturers), and faults in other brands listed above, have nothing to do whatsoever with the thread title, which is "Toyota Accelerators are wireless!"

Toyota Accelerators are wireless! is disinfo.

Yes cars can malfunction, so can old throttle cables too, i have seen someone taken to hospital myself when they hit a wall in an older car.

Old cars can get cables stuck in the sleeve, or the return spring can break. New cars can malfunction also.

And i have to say, and its just my personal opinion, that for people with average driving skills (which is most people) , later model vehicles with ABS, traction control and stability control, especially more powerful vehicles, and 4wds with high centres of gravity, are typically much safer and loss of control is less likely.

Thats why for example ONLY vehicles like Ferraris F430 and Nissans R35 gtr, which are kitted out with the latest electronic technology, enable novice drivers to pull circuit lap times only a few seconds off proffessional Le- Mans and F1 test drivers...this is well documented in recent times. The vehicle does the work.

So what is your point here OP? Why list examples of shitty Ford Explorers and old Toyotas and so on that have faults NOTHING to do with "Toyota Accelerators are wireless! "

No electronic throttle systems in any current production vehicle use wireless communication.

Wireless, by definition:


Wireless communication is the transfer of information over a distance without the use of electrical conductors or "wires".[1] The distances involved may be short (a few meters as in television remote control) or long (thousands or millions of kilometers for radio communications). When the context is clear, the term is often shortened to "wireless". Wireless communication is generally considered to be a branch of telecommunications.

It encompasses various types of fixed, mobile, and portable two-way radios, cellular telephones, personal digital assistants (PDAs), and wireless networking. Other examples of wireless technology include GPS units, garage door openers and or garage doors, wireless computer mice, keyboards and headsets, satellite television and cordless telephones.


Source: Wireless - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yes, vehicles use Hall Effect Sensors....so what? Hall sensors are not defined as wireless communication.

And these hall effect sensors provide a variable voltage, which is then sent to the vehicles computer, WITH ELECTRIC WIRES. NOT WIRELESS. THEY PLUG IN to transmit the voltage to the vehicles computer. No bluetooth. No wireless. No wi-fi. Just good old fashioned wires coated in plastic.

Hall effect sensors use magnets which move past eachother with the smallest of space between, they pretty much brush past eachother with less than a millimeter to spare in typical vehicle applications.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Hall_sensor_tach.gif

For OUTSIDE interference to alter Hall effect signals used in vehicle applications, if it was even possible, it would need to be extremely powerful and direct, and at this point it would simply affect all vehicle systems and anything in the vicinity. By all vehicle systems, that BTW would include even any vehicle with digital electonic ignition, and that dates back to the 1970's. So arguing that a pulse from some kind of military operation cooked the throttle sensor, would be like complaining about the broken coffee machine on the 21st floor of the world trade centre after it was demolished, without any regards to the rest of the damage.

To use an analogy, trying to alter a vehicles Hall sensor signal from the outside with electro-magnetic interference would be akin to trying to put out a wildfire with a drop of water from a pipette.

Maybe you can start a new thread with less disinfo, with a title like "Why vehicles lose control" and there are plenty of examples of older vehicles that would belong in a thread like that also.

If you are so scared of new cars getting EMF'd, buy an old petrol engine car with a magneto ignition and solid ignition leads (just dont expect the radio to work :) ) , or an old diesel.

OP your nearly as bad as Letterman and the MSM is lately, trying to attack Toyota at every opportunity. I hope ur at least short selling TM stock on the NYSE so its worthwhile for ya :D
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[h2pogo]

just wondering how any one is so sure wireless communications are not used in cars?
i know they are common in other types of vehicle and it would cut costs of wiring.
its not exactly new..

[motleyhoo]

More shame on you! :p

What would you have preferred? It was the best compromise available to me in my price range, and it's an ULEV.

.

[ownoiz]

just wondering how any one is so sure wireless communications are not used in cars?
i know they are common in other types of vehicle and it would cut costs of wiring.
its not exactly new..

Because there are thousands of technicians working on them everyday.

There are thousands of gear heads and wreckers/junk yards that pull cars apart, play with them or what have you. Heck there are even threads on the internet outlining how to install late model engines with electronic throttle and cable less pedals, with the computer and wiring harness, into old cars.

Then there are the people who assemble the VCMs/vehicle control module/computers.

Then there are the tuners or code writers who write the code, fill in the execution parameters with numbers, and upload it into the computers on these cars, both when they are new, and as they are serviced/tuned/or even modified.

And all of these people will tell you that the basic vehicle functions, controlled and monitored by various sensors communicating with the computer, the basic functions, are all operated either with plastic coated multiple strand electric wire, or fibre optic in the case of Media Oriented Systems Transport (M.O.S.T) which is modulated light waves (used on some high end recent/current prestige cars, and is typically used for on board multimedia, not engine function).

Not wireless.

One reason is likely to avoid interference or sabotage, i will say that, and wireless may even become the way its done in the future, but at the moment, it just isnt. :)

Its not only just done with wire to avoid interference, and heres why. If every hall sensor or otherwise on a car (and there are many) had to convert its signal to a wireless form of communication, all of these sensors would be larger, and more complex, and more expensive. Remember space is limited around wheel hubs, engines, pedals and so on, the smaller the sensor the better, im sure that just using ones logic, one can see there is a tipping point where making things so complicated to enable all of a vehicle sensors to be wireless, doesnt outweigh the cost of some lightweight gauge communication wire.

For example, mobile phones change voltages to a wireless signal, but even the smallest ones are much larger and more expensive than vehicle hall sensors (and im not talking about what the dealers sell the parts for to me and you ;) im talking about what it costs them to produce/buy a hall sensor, which is very little). Then if all the sensors were wireless, the computer would need to be able to recieve these signals, and new protocols figured out to avoid interference, especially considering the same make/model car can pull up next to you. Especially if its something extra complicated like a new Range Rover. :eek: A lot of dollars would need to be spent to make sure same and competitors cars didnt make yours go nuts.

Thats why i said in the paragraph above, it gets too complex (expensive), and on all vehicles, sensor wiring is typically some of the smallest and cheapest gauge possible, since currents are extremely low, its more about communicating voltages to the computer, not operating things that pull/draw current. You will only see thicker wiring on cars, where there is current draw, such as starter motors, wiper motors, headlights and so on, and simple relays do a good job of even keeping these runs of thicker wire to a minimum, as they have been for half a century or more on cars.

And remember, although it seems a long way back on this thread :D, the OP claimed specifically that Toyota Accellerators are wireless. They are not. I have posted official Toyota technical documents dated 2010 in this thread, that shows the CTS and Denso pedal assemblies.

No other electronic throttle controls on any car manufacturers are 'wireless' either. They are all pretty much the same shit, dating back to the late 80s/early 90s when the BMW V12s were the first, and they even had two electric motors on the engine , one to open each bank of 6, unlike most production cars that only have one.

The alarm system/central locking remotes are about the only thing that is wireless on a vehicle worth mentioning, and these are typically a stand alone unit... ie your remote doesnt communicate directly with the cars computer, but communicates with a reciever usually near the windscreen, that then converts the signal to voltage and then leads to the computer. The alarm reciever on a vehicle cannot tell a vehicle what to do, or open the throttle more, or open the injectors for longer, because its not complex enough, and a vehicles wiring schematic (or if you pull it apart yourself) will tell you this.

P.S. ... Toyota accellerators are not wireless!
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