Mind Blowing!!! You have to listen to these mp3's.

[vladmir]

LOS ANGELES WORKSHOP 2009 - PERFECT THE PROCESS
FEATURING JACK SMITH, BRANDON ALEXANDER ADAMS, AND GORDON HALL
http://www.creditorsincommerce.com/audio-los-angeles-2009.php

The very first mp3 [CIC Los Angeles Workshop 2009 (Part 1)] will completely floor you!
Very powerful!!!

[girlgye]

Thanks Vladimir. Stay and keep posting. I've really valued your contribution over the past few weeks and your research is excellent.


Hey if you wish to hold a conference in India I'd be glad to come over and assist. :D

Bless you more hun.

xx

[vladmir]

Thanks for your kind words and support girlgye, that just made my day. :)

[danster82]

Search the forum for credits in commerce I have tried to bring it to people attention but seems to be no interest.

[prajna]

Search the forum for credits in commerce I have tried to bring it to people attention but seems to be no interest.

I've listened to 45 minutes of the first mp3 and am finding it rather tedious and unenlightening so far. They do mention many things I agree with but I wouldn't describe what I have heard thus far as 'gripping stuff'. I'll reserve judgement on the whole until I have listened to more but I have found more clarity and inspiration watching the videos from Rob Menard and Schaeffer Cox than from this.

Part of my problem with it (and, to a far lesser extent, with FOMTL generally) is that it all seems to be a great deal of effort to learn and to engage with 'the system'.

Someone said something like, they had fought via the courts for 3 years and spent 27 thousand dollars and succeeded. But isn't that a form of tax in itself? Who wants to be working for the court system (which is, effectively, what they were doing) and investing time and money to get something that is rightfully yours?

Perhaps I have to listen some more before drawing any conclusions.

[vladmir]

I think the way Gordon Hall and others have spoken on how its all about contracts; and ignorance of contracts is no excuse,
how you have only 4 doors for any commercial presentment in life; recognizing who you are and who you arent,
brilliant stuff i think.

[prajna]

I consider those to be basic tenets of the movement; revelatory, sure, if you haven't come across them. But I think they are more precisely and concisely stated by others. I've listened to nearly 2 1/2 hours now and I can't say I would recommend these guys to introduce people to the concept.

[earthicastar]

Here is a letter i received after I called in to Creditorsincommerce talkshoe ....(and my reply below)
************************************************** ************************************************** *******
I'm currently listening to talkshoe session 145 dated 2/16/2010 creditors in commerce. I stopped listening towards the end, as you were explaining your legal matters to the rest of the callers. What stood out to me is that it seemed everyone was really intent on getting their points of view across to you, without you having the opportunity to speak uninterrupted. I remember someone saying in response to your story ...I don't want to hear it any more..., I thought that was a bunch of b.s. and also very rude! I understand what they were trying to say to you, but you had the right intent which was to fully explain the details of your ordeals so your story would be complete and fully understandable. However it seemed others caller were just waiting to jump in and get their words in, when you didn't even finish what you were saying in most cases! I think I quit the call around the time someone asked you the ridiculous question of if you enjoyed drama? More b.s.!
************************************************** ************************************************** *******
My reply...
Alan, (my partner) spent some time with Jack Smith (who is now involved with these 'creditor sin commerce' folks) Jack stayed with Alan for a couple months once and found him to be more of a preacher than a law expert, but the curious thing here is that the guy who was moderating that CIC show and said to me "I dont want to hear any more",(Colin Davis), is a screaming death metal guy with a band called "Vile", who has entrails and a bloody sword on his album cover,
and he wrote me a letter from his myspace site,
http://www.myspace.com/vile
to MY myspace site,
http://www.myspace.com/road_skuul
telling me how "i'm just living in conflict, and dont know how the courts work (after interrupting me and not even letting me tell my story), and If I learn their material I will have peace in my life".. blah blah blah... coming from a straight up satanist from all that I can tell about the guy.. .

Im no saint, but to be preaching peace and be the moderator for these radically religious gurus (who are merely baiting people to buy their seminars or send them money and they'll 'fill out forms and settle your legal; disputes' for you), and to display this element of evil and conflict and offensiveness through their music is beyond hypocritical

One thing they all like to do is tell you that you are living in 'your' debtor mentality" and a few other catch phrases, I was mostly trying to get them to explain that since from a religious point of view, a debtor is a sinner, and therefore so is a creditor... notice they really couldnt explain what they meant by creditor.. what they told me was "a creditor brings remedy and a debtor is in dishonor and irresponsible"... dude.. what kind of double-talk is that?

It was kind of my main purpose for calling tho, as this is what I find that many of these 'remedy in commerce' folks are pushing.. and if you corner them, (ie ask them any questions or to explain what they mean by "Creditor"), they will shut you up real quick.. Just like Tim Turner's talkshoe show had 'deleted' the episode I cornered his crew on, ... and as far as I can see.. it's the only episode they have EVER deleted. I 'called it' in my 'review'.. that they would not archive it, and sure enough I was correct.

If you want to hear some real history and foundation in law and commerce.. listen to Alan David episodes 164 and 169 of AIB radio on talkshoe .. he's not selling anything, and although, sure, we'd like to get paid for our time, we rarely ever do, and we help more people than we are even capable of... we literally never sleep.

[girlgye]

Aw.
there is a lot of repitition and not much how to remedy but some of the stories and experiences can be helpful.

These things are to lead the listener to do their own due and read contract law themselves. Clearly they are religious nuts and you are from California about the only sane place in America besides Vermont! IMHO.

If you know the stuff and do what they suggest it makes sense. They are Winstons Cronies and y'know when you think about this who really can make Commerce sound coherant. Especially when you draw in the experiences. Have you heard anybody do so? I haven't. Of course I will listen to your Alan. Didn't know he had gone into teaching. Will do thanks.
:)
As for the calls and the wind up merchants. You know they are not even agents either. There's a lot of sad and lonely people out there and you google any athiest on you tube and you will see a million views guaranteed.

They got me onto studying contract law and commerce law and for that I'm soooooh grateful. I'm not sure about their take on things either and listened to it again and screamed and substantiate your facts please!

We do this to ourselves its like we have to invent reasons why it all went wrong in there. You know what? They miss the bleeding obvious. You watch that change. Now I've said it. ;)

[daveskey69]

as much as i do like the lectures of Gordon Hall, i would like to ask him whether he thinks any of this stuff can apply to me, because I am an atheist.
I think the information he talks about is solid though and can be put into practice without having to give them a penny.

[danster82]

So how do we 1099A and OID in the UK?

[dude111]

Thank you VLAD for the files :)

[yozhik]

So how do we 1099A and OID in the UK?


Before taking on Usain Bolt in the 100m final ... how 'bout we learn to crawl and master A4V in the UK, first?

;)

[girlgye]

yeah a few people have asked this davey. Why do Athiests have to make a BIG DEAL OUT OF EVERYTHING. They are just as bad as the nut jobs imho.

He didn't make the rules about the law and the bible. THEY DID. He just has a belief system which helps him to cope when they stick butt naked into a paper suit and sling him in a cell at a temperature of 40 deg F. I think that is about 5 Cent isn't it. Bloody freezing til his fingers went blue and he started having an asthma attack.

Bit like they did with me before they jailed me and certainly what they did to MikeD of this board.

What other way could you view than love your brother as you would love yourself and pity him for his blind ignorance of the true law. pfffff. I wish I could have a faith like that. I really do.

I can see why the Bolsheviks when they uprised went and shot the bastards quite frankly this is assuming they weren't sponsored by the illuminati with full knowledge of the facts. I'm assuming that they just retained the grudge and metered out justice of their own once the power got into their hands.

So if you can bleep out the borne again Christian philosophy and listen to what he saying about the law and apply to our situation here you are welcome at our meet my friend. xx

[girlgye]

Before taking on Usain Bolt in the 100m final ... how 'bout we learn to crawl and master A4V in the UK, first?

;)

:).
No I have all the details on the 1099 OID equivalent here which I worked out myself. It is a good remedy. Clearly no one here has mastered the a4v except one person I know. So maybe quit barking up the wrong proverbial tree and do something else.

[yozhik]

:).
No I have all the details on the 1099 OID equivalent here which I worked out myself. It is a good remedy.
Have you sought remedy, with success?

Clearly no one here has mastered the a4v except one person I know. So maybe quit barking up the wrong proverbial tree and do something else.
You now think A4V is the wrong tree?
So have you abandoned 73/74 is your fix?

[jesusistruth]

"...we want the government to be well and healthy..."

That's enough for me.

[jackieg]

I listened to an old audio by Jack Smith and then wrote it down.
Here it is....
Audio is here...MrjackieG's Channel - YouTube
Their trying to use contract law...

On the subject of courts and the prospect that “He who does not deny….admits”

“They are trying to use contract law....”

Now let’s get back to this court scenario….“if the defendant does not rebut the unproved assumptions and presumptions.”

Then, according to the laws of procedure in an equity court their failure to rebut them….must mean what???

THEY MUST BE TRUE!!...BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T REBUT THEM!!

Which under the terms of contract law, you, have accepted the proposition.

You didn't rebut them right?....which is acceptance...

So, when you have offer and acceptance...isn't that a contract??

Doesn't that supersede any provisions required by formal law and procedure?

YES!!.....Because the parties are in agreement!!

And they can agree to waive remedies and provisions of law anytime they want.

Now I said to these people that I knew that are confused as to why in the world the judge found the defendant guilty when the judge knew there was no evidence for the plaintiff in the case.

I said he found the defendant guilty because he allowed and agreed that he should be found guilty.....you volunteered.

After all...haven't you heard before that everybody in prison is there because they volunteered.....of their own free will?

If you volunteered....doesn't that mean you had a contract??

Then....WHAT'S THAT GOT TO DO WITH LAW???

The end result was there was no evidence to rebut the presumptions.

So... the defense rested.

If the defense didn't rebut the presumptions.....did the plaintiff have a duty to bring evidence into the case???

OF COURSE NOT!!!

Because, they only have to bring evidence if, the defendant rebuts the presumptions.

ALL RISE FOR THE JUDGE!!

Okay?...so here is what's going through the judges mind....he's going… “okay, there was charges of wrong doing...there was no evidence by the state, but the defendant’s came on and didn’t rebut any of the charges...because they didn't rebut the charges....I, as the judge must weigh…well then, are the charges true as far as this case is concerned...or are the charges wrong?...as far as this case is concerned.”

It has to do with what’s the intent of the parties here...if there's no evidence...we can't rule on evidence...so it's not a law case.

It's a case in equity....we want to know what the intent of the parties are....isn’t everybody out to gain all the news serviture?.....because the news never gets to the facts....they just want to know how you feel about the news all the time.

There's no facts before the court....there's no evidence before the court...we just want to know how everybody feels about it.....do they want to be found guilty or not??

And if they want to be found guilty...then we will go ahead and because we have their agreement ....we'll find them guilty!

The judge will sit back and he says, “well look... the charges, even though there not proved…. must be true.”

ALL RISE FOR THE JUDGE!!

Regards,

Free-man Jack