Tom Cruise - 10 million dollar underground bunker

[holydiver55]

Star magazine, via Celebitchy, says that Tom Cruise is planning to build a ... wait for it ... wait for it ... a 10 million dollar underground bunker in Colorado to prepare for the arrival of Xenu, his alien god who is at the heart of scientology. Star says:

Devout Scientologist Tom Cruise plans to build a $10 million bunker under his Telluride, Colorado, mansion, a source tells Star! Equipped with a high tech air-purifying system, “it’s a self-contained underground system where up to 10 people can survive for years.” Apparently, Scientologists believe that the evil deposed galactic ruler Xenu is set to attack Earth, and they’ll need a safe place to survive.

I'm pretty sure that when someone is this dumb, they can be declared legally dead. So, it's with great sadness that I report the passing of Tom Cruise: Actor, Father, Beloved Husband. The End.

http://www.wwtdd.com/

:rolleyes:

[king]

Star magazine, via Celebitchy, says that Tom Cruise is planning to build a ... wait for it ... wait for it ... a 10 million dollar underground bunker in Colorado to prepare for the arrival of Xenu, his alien god who is at the heart of scientology. Star says:

Devout Scientologist Tom Cruise plans to build a $10 million bunker under his Telluride, Colorado, mansion, a source tells Star! Equipped with a high tech air-purifying system, “it’s a self-contained underground system where up to 10 people can survive for years.” Apparently, Scientologists believe that the evil deposed galactic ruler Xenu is set to attack Earth, and they’ll need a safe place to survive.

I'm pretty sure that when someone is this dumb, they can be declared legally dead. So, it's with great sadness that I report the passing of Tom Cruise: Actor, Father, Beloved Husband. The End.

http://www.wwtdd.com/

:rolleyes:

ha ha ha

that fucktard was brain dead for long time now

i am sure that the bunker will 'protect' his sorry ass from Xenu, but there is nothing that can regenerate fried brains of those like Cruise.

[soglad]

You can tell how Scientology set him free!

Freedom needs a bunker!!!

:D:D

[norton]

Scientology is just as believable as any other belief or religion. How do you KNOW that scientology is wrong? makes more sense than the bible

[soglad]

I don't know.....I DO know how corrupt it is.

It's another facade to keep us in servitude.

[norton]

i'm not disagreeing with you, i disagree with any organised belief system. but to out and out critisise someones belief is, umm, stupid (for want of a better word)

[edelweiss pirate]

You can tell how Scientology set him free!

Freedom needs a bunker!!!

:D:D

Just what I was thinking.....

That wanker is probably part of some damn fool destruction visualisation...

Honestly, people! If they're not sheep then they're friggin wolves trying to blow the house down.....

[freedomnonfighter]

Aaaaaaahahahahahaha this is GOLD!!!!
http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_40.gifhttp://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_40.gifhttp://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_40.gifhttp://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_40.gifhttp://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_40.gif

[chattanova]

Star magazine, via Celebitchy, says that Tom Cruise is planning to build a ... wait for it ... wait for it ... a 10 million dollar underground bunker in Colorado to prepare for the arrival of Xenu, his alien god who is at the heart of scientology. Star says:

Devout Scientologist Tom Cruise plans to build a $10 million bunker under his Telluride, Colorado, mansion, a source tells Star! Equipped with a high tech air-purifying system, “it’s a self-contained underground system where up to 10 people can survive for years.” Apparently, Scientologists believe that the evil deposed galactic ruler Xenu is set to attack Earth, and they’ll need a safe place to survive.

I'm pretty sure that when someone is this dumb, they can be declared legally dead. So, it's with great sadness that I report the passing of Tom Cruise: Actor, Father, Beloved Husband. The End.

http://www.wwtdd.com/

:rolleyes:

LMAO :D

[brotherapostate]

Whats the difference in Tom Cruise believing that and people believing in Reptillians? I can't see any.

[eat_a_grey]

Whats the difference in Tom Cruise believing that and people believing in Reptillians? I can't see any.

Right,but the majority of us dont exploit these beliefs for control/brainwashing tactics by beatings and such,nor do we strive for financial gain over these thoughts and ideas.

[soglad]

Right,but the majority of us dont exploit these beliefs for control/brainwashing tactics by beatings and such,nor do we strive for financial gain over these thoughts and ideas.

:cool:

[thetonic]

People with as much money as Cruise gots are probably clued into the true meaning of "Scientology" - ie. Global Pyramid Scam... And the bunker is really for the NWO takeover or whatever they plan to do...

[eat_a_grey]

personally,I think Cruise is nothing more than a control freak narcissist,and he thinks he is some demi-messiah for this 'church'.

I only feel sorry for the poor souls who are manipulated and exploited by this so called 'religion' very sad...very sad indeed.

[cheeb]

L.Ron Hubbard was connected to Jack Parsons,
The "Father of the American Space Programme.
Parsons was an associate of Aleister Crowley.
Crowley called Lafayette Ronald Hubbard a conman.

Tom Cruise claims to have superior powers in psychology:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jQCR02Unqhg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jQCR02Unqhg
:eek:

[lydia78]

L.Ron Hubbard was connected to Jack Parsons,
The "Father of the American Space Programme.
Parsons was an associate of Aleister Crowley.
Crowley called Lafayette Ronald Hubbard a conman.

Tom Cruise claims to have superior powers in psychology:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jQCR02Unqhg

:eek:

Found myself agreeing with some
of what Tom said!:eek::eek:
Def agree twat mat should do his research
before presenting it on tv
but he was more intent on putting words in
cruise controls mouth!
omg...never thought i'd see the day I agree with cruise
even a tiny bit!!:eek::eek:

[brotherapostate]

I kind of think, Scientology right or wrong, Cruise is obviously a guy who passionately believes in what he says. Let him speak - if we do not believe in freedom of expression for those we dont like then we dont believe in it at all. After all, what is truth?

[blokey]

Don't fall for the story.

He has been tipped off about forthcoming events.

Think about it, Cruise couldn't keep this kind of construction secret and his public would be asking questions.

Nice cover story.

Most will laugh at his actions and brush his notions aside.

Personally I wish I was building a $10 million Bunker, don't you?

Remember 2012 isn't too far away.

[archangel]

Don't fall for the story.

He has been tipped off about forthcoming events.

Think about it, Cruise couldn't keep this kind of construction secret and his public would be asking questions.

Nice cover story.

Most will laugh at his actions and brush his notions aside.

Personally I wish I was building a $10 million Bunker, don't you?

Remember 2012 isn't too far away.

Yea, I agree...

[2013]

Yes for the planned future outrage of supposed alien invasion , or also to
mass mind infect /control gullible people into accepting /creating an apocolyptic battle :DNothing that is put out on that level is for nothing ,what do other leading scientologist say concernign this? Is there a mass bunker building project going down other than the already secret government ones ?:D

[edelweiss pirate]

It's all up for grabs.. Everything! Pure power is there... if you want it!

What do YOU want to happen in 2012?

[cheeb]

Yes for the planned future outrage of supposed alien invasion , or also to
mass mind infect /control gullible people into accepting /creating an apocolyptic battle :DNothing that is put out on that level is for nothing ,what do other leading scientologist say concernign this? Is there a mass bunker building project going down other than the already secret government ones ?:D

He definatley knows about Xeno and valcanoes!

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1086/cloverfieldposter1vi5.jpg

Do you think he knows when Cthulu will be here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rKjbaB42YFc

:eek:

[tejas]

i'm not disagreeing with you, i disagree with any organised belief system. but to out and out critisise someones belief is, umm, stupid (for want of a better word)

You are entirely right.

It is foolish to laugh at him.

Consider how others would view our perspective of the world?

[tejas]

Don't fall for the story.

He has been tipped off about forthcoming events.

Think about it, Cruise couldn't keep this kind of construction secret and his public would be asking questions.

Nice cover story.

Most will laugh at his actions and brush his notions aside.

Personally I wish I was building a $10 million Bunker, don't you?

Remember 2012 isn't too far away.

agreed.

[megafish33]

This guy is just special. Bunkers won't protect him if an advanced alien race came down from the heavens to kills us all. Hell, we have bunker busters missiles! And we can't even fly to Mars... :rolleyes:

[neutron flux]

Devout Scientologist Tom Cruise plans to build a $10 million bunker under his Telluride, Colorado, mansion, a source tells Star! Equipped with a high tech air-purifying system, “it’s a self-contained underground system where up to 10 people can survive for years.” Apparently, Scientologists believe that the evil deposed galactic ruler Xenu is set to attack Earth, and they’ll need a safe place to survive.


A source? What source? Sounds like the media in general when a "source" is quoted as saying the Bin Laden tapes are real. A source could be Bob the toilet cleaner or an employee of Star! magazine. I don't think Tom would go around telling everyone about the reason he's building a bunker is to hide from some intergalactic space monster.

I think he is clued up as to the direction this planet is going and is making sure he is one of the survivors, along with the elite in their underground bases.

[klinker]

Scientology aside for a second how about Cruise or anyone with the money simply building a nuclear fall out shelter? Not such a daft idea is it?

[vienna]

Scientology is just as believable as any other belief or religion. How do you KNOW that scientology is wrong? makes more sense than the bible

because Hubbard has been proven as a liar and OT7's who have left the organisation know the 'tech' at he higher levels is all bunk - there are 'wins' at the bottom levels but no more than any other basic 'talking therapy'

see Russell MIller's 'Bare Faced Messiah' for info and google video numerous ex members at the higher levels who left after they found out the truth

(I used to work for them so I know more than enough about this organisation)

the problem is the OT levels work on the subjectivity of the persons reality, so it becomes difficult for them to become objective

[thirdwave]

He definatley knows about Xeno and valcanoes!

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1086/cloverfieldposter1vi5.jpg

Do you think he knows when Cthulu will be here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rKjbaB42YFc

:eek:

that looks cool :)

[vienna]

I worked for them during my summers at college (after being intersted in the books first), and even though the books are impressive (it shares alot of themes with Aleister Crowley's Book of the Law - who Hubbard was a follower of along with Nasa scientist Jack Parsons) the organisation and members don't live up to the claims. I was auditing people to clear and the 'wins' people claim are no more than any basic therapy could achieve from listening to people unload memories of past trauma (whether or not hooked up to an e-meter).

when I was there, Dianetic Auditing cost a punter £10 per hour and Scientology Auditing cost £100 per hour!(bear in mind that a case can go anywhere up to a few hundred hours. All decided by the auditor in the session)

to convince members to leave never argue the 'tech' (as they call it) Simply and calmly tell them of the members in the higher OT levels who have left the organisation (and the fact Hubbards son commited suicide). And the core group that help Hubbard start Dianetics in the 50's who all left at the later stages after becoming disillusioned to the supposed claims.

it works as a type of auto hypnosis, and i knew alot of intelligent articulate people in there. But to advance you need to be convinced by a degree of stages. very subtle and dangerous way of getting more dependant on it (by design). So even when you reach the higher OT levels you are convinced that objective phenomena are actually subjective. I suspect this is why it works so well on celebrities like Tom Cruise etc as they live in this unreality subjective bubble most of the time anyway.

that is why the only thing that works in deprogramming people out of it is to confront them with hard facts like names and dates of OT7's who have left the organisation.

[thirdwave]

if bad aliens took over ..or a nuclear war started then who would want to be alive here anyway???, not me!, wont exactly be a place full of rock n roll!.....

money cant save you..bunkers cant save you.... just got to take care of your soul and you will always have a safe place to go, even if you "die"....

for me that is just an extreme of what would have brought upon the end times anyway.... if you need an underground bunker worth 10 mil to live, then fuck it, go out with a bang!

[lightbeing]

Oh dear Cruise, you are a big FUCKTARD!!:D

[mr_moon]

Here's my take on all this... My feelings are it is true. Scientology has captured some of the highest earning Hollywood actors...people with lots of money... who appear in films that attempt to subconsciously plant possible 'world' scenarios into our sub-conscious... PARTICULARLY Tom Cruise:

Mission Impossible
Minority Report
War of the Worlds

This may seem far fetched but i've seen how these Scientology guys operate and they are VIOLENT, AGGRESSIVE and GREEDY and most certainly linked to some Government Black Ops. The research and information they can get on people is immense... things that ONLY some CIA or special intelligence agency could dig up.

If there were to be an 'Alien Invasion' or should i say 'False Flag Invasion' then who better to protect than those with LOADS of cash who are happily funding the development and marketing of a UFO Invasion?

We all know the government have these machines and if Scientology is directly linked, which all the evidence points towards, then there really WILL be an invasion...

What a bunch of gits. They'll trick a lot of people but at least they won't trick us...

Much Love
xxxxxxxxxxx

[woghd]

Here's my take on all this... My feelings are it is true. Scientology has captured some of the highest earning Hollywood actors...people with lots of money... who appear in films that attempt to subconsciously plant possible 'world' scenarios into our sub-conscious... PARTICULARLY Tom Cruise:

Mission Impossible
Minority Report
War of the Worlds

This may seem far fetched but i've seen how these Scientology guys operate and they are VIOLENT, AGGRESSIVE and GREEDY and most certainly linked to some Government Black Ops. The research and information they can get on people is immense... things that ONLY some CIA or special intelligence agency could dig up.

If there were to be an 'Alien Invasion' or should i say 'False Flag Invasion' then who better to protect than those with LOADS of cash who are happily funding the development and marketing of a UFO Invasion?

We all know the government have these machines and if Scientology is directly linked, which all the evidence points towards, then there really WILL be an invasion...

What a bunch of gits. They'll trick a lot of people but at least they won't trick us...

Much Love
xxxxxxxxxxx

**** STANDS AND APPLAUDS ****
I like Tom Cruise Movies, but what mr_moon says rings true. I've had run-ins with scientologists, and was basically reminded of things that happened to me A LONG TIME AGO, shit I've never told ANYONE. How could a "CHURCH" know some of this stuff?

I still get the willies just thinking about it. Make no mistake, scientology is an arm of something even bigger.

Archangel

[thirdwave]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

now, the guy who squirted him is a bit of a dick but Tom clearly has a very fragile ego.... just laugh call the guy a tosser and walk off!!

I think if someone is enlightened then a little water in the face would not ruin their day.

[mr_moon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCdK25VAhq4

now, the guy who squirted him is a bit of a dick but Tom clearly has a very fragile ego.... just laugh call the guy a tosser and walk off!!

I think if someone is enlightened then a little water in the face would not ruin their day.

Not....WATER... my skin....it's....MELTING!!! HELP ME!!!

(now tazer him fellas...)

[thirdwave]

Not....WATER... my skin....it's....MELTING!!! HELP ME!!!

(now tazer him fellas...)


exactly :)

[2013]

He definatley knows about Xeno and valcanoes!

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1086/cloverfieldposter1vi5.jpg

Do you think he knows when Cthulu will be here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rKjbaB42YFc

:eek:

The Monsters Are Coming ! they are already here more .More post millenial,9/11, pre 2102 apocalyptical mind controlled scaremongering and any other big words you want to add, looks good though , people do enjoy watching america dying , is that the point ?
:D

[grimmvizard]

Star magazine, via Celebitchy, says that Tom Cruise is planning to build a ... wait for it ... wait for it ... a 10 million dollar underground bunker in Colorado to prepare for the arrival of Xenu, his alien god who is at the heart of scientology. Star says:

Devout Scientologist Tom Cruise plans to build a $10 million bunker under his Telluride, Colorado, mansion, a source tells Star! Equipped with a high tech air-purifying system, “it’s a self-contained underground system where up to 10 people can survive for years.” Apparently, Scientologists believe that the evil deposed galactic ruler Xenu is set to attack Earth, and they’ll need a safe place to survive.

I'm pretty sure that when someone is this dumb, they can be declared legally dead. So, it's with great sadness that I report the passing of Tom Cruise: Actor, Father, Beloved Husband. The End.

http://www.wwtdd.com/

:rolleyes:

fuck ron l hubbard , and fuck all his clones

[grimmvizard]

if bad aliens took over ..or a nuclear war started then who would want to be alive here anyway???, not me!, wont exactly be a place full of rock n roll!.....

money cant save you..bunkers cant save you.... just got to take care of your soul and you will always have a safe place to go, even if you "die"....

for me that is just an extreme of what would have brought upon the end times anyway.... if you need an underground bunker worth 10 mil to live, then fuck it, go out with a bang!

well said

[anonymousoneuk]

I have not read this thread beyond the first couples posts, but i have some things to say on this subject.

Firstly, considering we're on a forum, that discusses topics involving extraterrestials.

How are scientologies theories far out?

How do they deserve to be ridiculed.

That is in responce to anyone who posted some from of derogatory comment against scientologies idealogy.

Scientology is however a cult, they use psychological tactics to indoctrinate people and charge them everystep of the way, scientologists usually aren't aware they are in a cult however, they don't set out to indocrinate, charge and drain people, they are trying to help.

Much like jehovahs witnesses, only JW's don't charge people.

I know a couple scientologists and it's clear to see their ideaology at the least produces a very pleasent type of person, they feel like they are doing the right thing.

One thing i am greatful to scientology for is for it's recognition of the preciousness of the mind.

Scintology runs all kinds of programs to protect people from and help get people off drugs, it does teach them to value their minds, as it's the doorway to consciousness.

They consider consciousness to be a product of the soul not the mind.

Scientology also founded and funds the CCHR, Citizens Commision on Human Rights, this organisation primarily deals with the humans rights abuse of psychaitry.

Scientology believes that psychiatry are the forces of the beings which have imprisoned us on this planet.

They don't recognise much else a foot, but psychiartry is a great threat, it was psychiartrics which created Eugenics.

Modern Psychaitry is basically covert Eugenics, the drugs and treatments steralise you and make you mentally impotent.

I'm unsure of how enlightened one could become while being a member of the organisation, they teach one to value the mind, but is it teaching free thinking or not.

I consider scientology one of the better relegions, but i can't deny for all it's positive attributes it is still a cult...

Peace and Bless :)

[razed1]

i think what ppl might be overlooking is

WHAT DOES TOM CRUISE KNOW THAT GONNA HAPPEN that he's investing 10 mill$$ into a fortified bunker underground in the mountains???

forget about the alien stuff, but just look at this one fact,

why the need to protect yourself like this?, we hear alex jones talking about ppl that are billionairs are all buying houses outside of north america,

this should ring alarm bells for US the common population.....,

[anonymousoneuk]

i think what ppl might be overlooking is

WHAT DOES TOM CRUISE KNOW THAT GONNA HAPPEN that he's investing 10 mill$$ into a fortified bunker underground in the mountains???

forget about the alien stuff, but just look at this one fact,

why the need to protect yourself like this?, we hear alex jones talking about ppl that are billionairs are all buying houses outside of north america,

this should ring alarm bells for US the common population.....,

Fear is not the answer, one would understand this is they were on the right path, so the solution to fear is simple, get on the right path.

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself"

Bless :)

[peachped]

i think what ppl might be overlooking is

WHAT DOES TOM CRUISE KNOW THAT GONNA HAPPEN that he's investing 10 mill$$ into a fortified bunker underground in the mountains???

forget about the alien stuff, but just look at this one fact,

why the need to protect yourself like this?, we hear alex jones talking about ppl that are billionairs are all buying houses outside of north america,

this should ring alarm bells for US the common population.....,

Let me know when Stephen Hawking is building one. ;)

[razed1]

you guys actually think the media reports what these ppl do in their private life?

do you know what stephen hawkings does in his spare time? do you know anything about tom cruise other than what the media has blasted into your mind?

you need to wake up that theres a whole story behind the 'movie'

all these 'news' that is reported to you, is not for your benefit, cause you 'matter' to them,

you should pay more attention to the message they send

[cheeney1]

Tom Cruise is a Complete TWAT He Should Lock himself in that Bunker When he builds it then there will be NO More Tom Cruise Movies


YES WE ALL WIN...........:D

[kweli]

i think what ppl might be overlooking is

WHAT DOES TOM CRUISE KNOW THAT GONNA HAPPEN that he's investing 10 mill$$ into a fortified bunker underground in the mountains???

forget about the alien stuff, but just look at this one fact,

why the need to protect yourself like this?, we hear alex jones talking about ppl that are billionairs are all buying houses outside of north america,

this should ring alarm bells for US the common population.....,

That's the one question that concerns me too razed1. I don't care about his religious/spiritual beliefs, I don't give a toss about the celebrity gossip surrounding him. But what information does he have, that we don't?

[danucrom]

Whats the difference in Tom Cruise believing that and people believing in Reptillians? I can't see any.

Neither can I.

[danucrom]

Not....WATER... my skin....it's....MELTING!!! HELP ME!!!

(now tazer him fellas...)


Water is Tom Cruises kryptonite, apparently .

[danucrom]

if bad aliens took over ..or a nuclear war started then who would want to be alive here anyway???, not me!, wont exactly be a place full of rock n roll!.....

money cant save you..bunkers cant save you.... just got to take care of your soul and you will always have a safe place to go, even if you "die"....

for me that is just an extreme of what would have brought upon the end times anyway.... if you need an underground bunker worth 10 mil to live, then fuck it, go out with a bang!

You will be so busy looking out your window for "bad aliens" that you may fail to notice the police kicking your door down.

[cheeney1]

You will be so busy looking out your window for "bad aliens" that you may fail to notice the police kicking your door down.

And You Will be First For The Fucking Chop, Yes Cause you will be Too Busy Posting On This Forum.....

Bang Bang You're Dead.....
http://www.qsmsilencers.com/swat.jpg

[razed1]

That's the one question that concerns me too razed1. I don't care about his religious/spiritual beliefs, I don't give a toss about the celebrity gossip surrounding him. But what information does he have, that we don't?

yea i cant beleive so many are busy discussing frivolous topics, yet ignore the obvious

[synergy777]

has anyone read dianetics, researched ron l hubbard. i have, the man was a failed sci fi writer and even stated the best way to make money was to start a religion.

added to this, his xenu stuuf is based on annunaki/slave race hypothesis

also notice colorado, a nwo centre, they have alot of stuff in colorado, apparently its safe zone.

[synergy777]

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=5324

Bush Buys Land in Northern Paraguay

Prensa Latina – Buenos Aires, Oct 13, 2006


Scroll down for update

An Argentine official regarded the intention of the George W. Bush family to settle on the Acuifero Guarani (Paraguay) as surprising, besides being a bad signal for the governments of the region.

Luis D Elia, undersecretary for the Social Habitat in the Argentine Federal Planning Ministry, issued a memo partially reproduced by digital INFOBAE.com, in which he spoke of the purchase by Bush of a 98,842-acre farm in northern Paraguay, between Brazil and Bolivia.

The news circulated Thursday in non-official sources in Asuncion, Paraguay.

D Elia considered this Bush step counterproductive for the regional power expressed by Presidents Nestor Kirchner, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Evo Morales, Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro.

He said that "it is a bad signal that the Bush family is doing business with natural resources linked to the future of MERCOSUR."

The official pointed out that this situation could cause a hypothetical conflict of all the armies in the region, and called attention to the Bush family habit of associating business and politics.
www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={EBA55617-2676-4091-ABBC-20650EB6FEE1}&language=EN


Update
Bush Family Residence in Paraguay?
Written by April Howard – Upside Down World October 11, 2006
Note: all links are to Spanish/Portuguese websites apart from the final "Moonshine" link.

The Governor of Alto Paraguay, Erasmo Rodríguez Acosta has admitted to hearing that George Bush Sr. owns land in the Chaco region of Paraguay, in Paso de Patria. Acosta says that rumor has it that Bush owns near to 70 thousand hectares (173,000 acres) as part of an ecological reserve and/or ranch. However, the governor said he had no documents to prove the rumor. Acosta said that some stories credited the land to the Fundación Patria, which Bush would be a member of.

The spokespeople of the organization were not available to comment. Supposedly, Timothy Towell, the U.S. Ambassador in Asunción (the capital of Paraguay) is the present administrator of the land. First accounts signaled that Bush had acquired 40,000 hectares (99,000 acres) in the Chaco zone of Fuerte Olimpo, near the Bolivian Border. A spark of the interest in this property may have been Jenna Bush's private visit to Paraguay with Unicef, which started Saturday, October 7, 2006. Supposedly Jenna will travel to the ranch to ''observe'' several indigenous villages are located on the property.
http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/457/0/

Also see:
Moonshine
http://rigint.blogspot.com/2006/10/moonshadow.html

Last updated 18/10/2006


there are safe zones, colorado, australia, etc.

is it aliens, planet x/nibiru, return of the annuaki/fallen, solar cycle-magnetic poleshift-2012 ?

are the biblical 144,000 connected to this

[razed1]

has anyone read dianetics, researched ron l hubbard. i have, the man was a failed sci fi writer and even stated the best way to make money was to start a religion.

added to this, his xenu stuuf is based on annunaki/slave race hypothesis

also notice colorado, a nwo centre, they have alot of stuff in colorado, apparently its safe zone.

exactly, cruise knows the deal, all this scientology/xenu stuff is for public consumption

[synergy777]

razed 1, spot on bro, after all you don't spend 10 million on a whim.

also didn't crowley and hubbard know each other aswell.

[thorleyart]

Star magazine, via Celebitchy, says that Tom Cruise is planning to build a ... wait for it ... wait for it ... a 10 million dollar underground bunker in Colorado to prepare for the arrival of Xenu, his alien god who is at the heart of scientology. Star says:

Devout Scientologist Tom Cruise plans to build a $10 million bunker under his Telluride, Colorado, mansion, a source tells Star! Equipped with a high tech air-purifying system, “it’s a self-contained underground system where up to 10 people can survive for years.” Apparently, Scientologists believe that the evil deposed galactic ruler Xenu is set to attack Earth, and they’ll need a safe place to survive.

I'm pretty sure that when someone is this dumb, they can be declared legally dead. So, it's with great sadness that I report the passing of Tom Cruise: Actor, Father, Beloved Husband. The End.

http://www.wwtdd.com/

:rolleyes:

wow, i think i'd rather die than be trapped in a bunker with Tom Cruise for years...

[dondaz]

you guys actually think the media reports what these ppl do in their private life?

do you know what stephen hawkings does in his spare time? do you know anything about tom cruise other than what the media has blasted into your mind?

you need to wake up that theres a whole story behind the 'movie'

all these 'news' that is reported to you, is not for your benefit, cause you 'matter' to them,

you should pay more attention to the message they send

Exactly. Cruise knows more than he lets on and we only know what msm puts out about him. He's into bigger things than scientology, has to be. He's seeing more of the bigger picture and it's not sci fi fiction. He knows the nwo is hitting the USA big time, as now do many other main stream people.

[grannymoose]

if his god is coming to wipe the rotten and the evil from the planet, why his he not looking forward to meeting this god, if he too has nothing to hide?
confusing, i think he only knows what others tell him, the very fact he's building a bunker i hope all goes well, if we are to be wiped out, would you really want to survive only to be ruled once again by a bunch of murdering back stabbing cunts that have not only caused wars yet also supported them.
poeple with money to me are the root of evil. it's like dam footballers, do they give a crap about the starving and the homeless, there the ones at the end of the day that could turn things around, instead they sit there spend shit oads on crap and just get richer, i would love to know there true opinion of the average do joe.
soo let them go into there bunkers, there condeming themselves by doing so.
If you knew someone was about to fall and die, theres 2 options. help person lives. turn away person dies. in my eyes you are then no more better than a murderer, you knew the outcome you walked away, this is what the bunker guys are doing, caring for nothing but themselves and fooking everybody else like we dam cattle. it's going to be mass murder becouse they all know the outside guys are going to die! how they live with themselves after i do so wonder, i pray for ebola to inffect the supplies ;)

[shottie]

Star magazine, via Celebitchy, says that Tom Cruise is planning to build a ... wait for it ... wait for it ... a 10 million dollar underground bunker in Colorado to prepare for the arrival of Xenu, his alien god who is at the heart of scientology. Star says:

Devout Scientologist Tom Cruise plans to build a $10 million bunker under his Telluride, Colorado, mansion, a source tells Star! Equipped with a high tech air-purifying system, “it’s a self-contained underground system where up to 10 people can survive for years.” Apparently, Scientologists believe that the evil deposed galactic ruler Xenu is set to attack Earth, and they’ll need a safe place to survive.

I'm pretty sure that when someone is this dumb, they can be declared legally dead. So, it's with great sadness that I report the passing of Tom Cruise: Actor, Father, Beloved Husband. The End.

http://www.wwtdd.com/

:rolleyes:

Ha Ha, a short extract from a song i am writing:

life,
thats worth celebration,
we need to end all starvation,
look at the struggle that were facing,
fuck corrupt government dictation,
or them NGO corporations,
life needs to be basic,
people put down the sony playstations,
dont get me started on school education,
cause our kids are being raised by the masons,
tv turn us into a zombie nation,
some say there getting ready for the staged invasion,
Tom Cruise wants to build a bunker in his basement,
the pupose is simple,
the process is blatant!

[lizzy]

And You Will be First For The Fucking Chop, Yes Cause you will be Too Busy Posting On This Forum.....

Bang Bang You're Dead.....
http://www.qsmsilencers.com/swat.jpg

At least danucrom knows WHO the enemey REALLY IS.

[razed1]

At least danucrom knows WHO the enemey REALLY IS.

and according to you all, it's tsarion :p

[lizzy]

Exactly. Cruise knows more than he lets on and we only know what msm puts out about him. He's into bigger things than scientology, has to be. He's seeing more of the bigger picture and it's not sci fi fiction. He knows the nwo is hitting the USA big time, as now do many other main stream people.


Yup, that's why on the last vid i saw of him he could'nt say a god dam thing.

[lizzy]

and according to you all, it's tsarion :p

, he is'nt holding the guns , just tells us to clean our psyches out and be compliant sheeple who think that will be good enough when you watch thousands of MP marching down the street.

[razed1]

Kneel before your MASTER...

[lizzy]

has anyone read dianetics, researched ron l hubbard. i have, the man was a failed sci fi writer and even stated the best way to make money was to start a religion.

added to this, his xenu stuuf is based on annunaki/slave race hypothesis

also notice colorado, a nwo centre, they have alot of stuff in colorado, apparently its safe zone.


Yup, Denver International Airport is a NWO major bunker.
They own most of the State now, mineral and fighting for ( and will get) the last of the water rights.

[lizzy]

Kneel before your MASTER...


LOL:eek:........who's yours razed? :confused:

[lizzy]

i think what ppl might be overlooking is

WHAT DOES TOM CRUISE KNOW THAT GONNA HAPPEN that he's investing 10 mill$$ into a fortified bunker underground in the mountains???

forget about the alien stuff, but just look at this one fact,

why the need to protect yourself like this?, we hear alex jones talking about ppl that are billionairs are all buying houses outside of north america,

this should ring alarm bells for US the common population.....,

you got it right here,

Bush has bought 2 huge half million acrea parcels. One is over S. Americas' largest aquafer, the other has no extradition treaty with USA.

[razed1]

and if ppl are aware of the 'cross of hendaye' the one talked about by fulcanelli

it basically said, that the one place on earth where one would be safe from the 'cataclysm' approaching at the end of the age was....wait for it.... the mountains of south america!! :eek:


*just a coincidence dear, nothin to worry about :cool:

[farros]

Whats the difference in Tom Cruise believing that and people believing in Reptillians? I can't see any.

exactly.

couldnt have said it any better.

[talkingchimp]

i think this story has ramifications to ponder, fuck all the scientology crap, read between the lines, underground bunker, air filter.......nuclear bomb proof? something big is looming.

[zero1]

On the serious side, lots of celebs and public figures in business and politics have places lined up and booked in underground hidey-holes to ensure their own survival in case of global or national disaster.

[joyful]

Bunkers are a good idea. Tom Cruise is one of the less offensive Hollywood celebrities to me.

[cheeney1]

At least danucrom knows WHO the enemey REALLY IS.


Yeah Right Good One Don't Make me Laugh......................HAHAHAHHA Our Fucking Savior of the Free World.........:D

[danucrom]

Yeah Right Good One Don't Make me Laugh......................HAHAHAHHA Our Fucking Savior of the Free World.........:D


Fantastic:D, another moron for me to stick on the ignore list.

Don't feed the troll lizzy;)

[cheeney1]

Fantastic:D, another moron for me to stick on the ignore list.

Don't feed the troll lizzy;)

Go For It Sweetie I Ain't No Moron You Prat...........:D

[gremlin]

Aaaaaaahahahahahaha this is GOLD!!!!
http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_40.gifhttp://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_40.gifhttp://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_40.gifhttp://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_40.gifhttp://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_40.gif

what he said:D

[intruder]

lets be gratuitous...could be Risky Business

Some say he's Losing It but the Cocktail sucking Samurai awaits his Rainman with All The Right Moves under a Vanilla Sky because he knows The Colour of Money in these Days of Thunder. A potential War of The Worlds awaits yet he has the Collateral to keep his Eyes Wide Shut with a few "Young Guns" becasue he's TOP GUN and a LEGEND!!! With connections to The Firm there will be no Outsiders or a Minority Report, just A Few Good Men. He'll dance Taps with his Endless Love, Jerry McGuire, his Magnolia. It shouldn't be a Mission Impossible as he has a Valkyrie with him.

[grannymoose]

lets be gratuitous...could be Risky Business

Some say he's Losing It but the Cocktail sucking Samurai awaits his Rainman with All The Right Moves under a Vanilla Sky because he knows The Colour of Money in these Days of Thunder. A potential War of The Worlds awaits yet he has the Collateral to keep his Eyes Wide Shut with a few "Young Guns" becasue he's TOP GUN and a LEGEND!!! With connections to The Firm there will be no Outsiders or a Minority Report, just A Few Good Men. He'll dance Taps with his Endless Love, Jerry McGuire, his Magnolia. It shouldn't be a Mission Impossible as he has a Valkyrie with him.



uh how the heck did you put that together....thats wicked! well done m8y

[kweli]

lets be gratuitous...could be Risky Business

Some say he's Losing It but the Cocktail sucking Samurai awaits his Rainman with All The Right Moves under a Vanilla Sky because he knows The Colour of Money in these Days of Thunder. A potential War of The Worlds awaits yet he has the Collateral to keep his Eyes Wide Shut with a few "Young Guns" becasue he's TOP GUN and a LEGEND!!! With connections to The Firm there will be no Outsiders or a Minority Report, just A Few Good Men. He'll dance Taps with his Endless Love, Jerry McGuire, his Magnolia. It shouldn't be a Mission Impossible as he has a Valkyrie with him.

uh how the heck did you put that together....thats wicked! well done m8y

Well yes, credit where it's due, that was rather smart. :cool:

[intruder]

uh how the heck did you put that together....thats wicked! well done m8y


it's the curse AND blessing of being musical. things like this can just flow! I wikipedia'd his filmography and the rest, as they say, is history...well, aside from Valkyrie which is to be released later this year.

[sloughi]

Star magazine, via Celebitchy, says that Tom Cruise is planning to build a ... wait for it ... wait for it ... a 10 million dollar underground bunker in Colorado to prepare for the arrival of Xenu, his alien god who is at the heart of scientology. Star says:

Devout Scientologist Tom Cruise plans to build a $10 million bunker under his Telluride, Colorado, mansion, a source tells Star! Equipped with a high tech air-purifying system, “it’s a self-contained underground system where up to 10 people can survive for years.” Apparently, Scientologists believe that the evil deposed galactic ruler Xenu is set to attack Earth, and they’ll need a safe place to survive.

I'm pretty sure that when someone is this dumb, they can be declared legally dead. So, it's with great sadness that I report the passing of Tom Cruise: Actor, Father, Beloved Husband. The End.

http://www.wwtdd.com/

:rolleyes:
Smart! I sometimes wish I had that money myself so I would do the same.

[emanuel]

Star magazine, via Celebitchy, says that Tom Cruise is planning to build a ... wait for it ... wait for it ... a 10 million dollar underground bunker in Colorado to prepare for the arrival of Xenu, his alien god who is at the heart of scientology. Star says:

Devout Scientologist Tom Cruise plans to build a $10 million bunker under his Telluride, Colorado, mansion, a source tells Star! Equipped with a high tech air-purifying system, “it’s a self-contained underground system where up to 10 people can survive for years.” Apparently, Scientologists believe that the evil deposed galactic ruler Xenu is set to attack Earth, and they’ll need a safe place to survive.

I'm pretty sure that when someone is this dumb, they can be declared legally dead. So, it's with great sadness that I report the passing of Tom Cruise: Actor, Father, Beloved Husband. The End.

http://www.wwtdd.com/

:rolleyes:

"a source tells star"!

And you soak it up as gospel (seemingly).

Someones brain is dead, oh yeah can you feel it?!!

[hunger]

Star magazine, via Celebitchy, says that Tom Cruise is planning to build a ... wait for it ... wait for it ... a 10 million dollar underground bunker in Colorado to prepare for the arrival of Xenu, his alien god who is at the heart of scientology. Star says:

Devout Scientologist Tom Cruise plans to build a $10 million bunker under his Telluride, Colorado, mansion, a source tells Star! Equipped with a high tech air-purifying system, “it’s a self-contained underground system where up to 10 people can survive for years.” Apparently, Scientologists believe that the evil deposed galactic ruler Xenu is set to attack Earth, and they’ll need a safe place to survive.

I'm pretty sure that when someone is this dumb, they can be declared legally dead. So, it's with great sadness that I report the passing of Tom Cruise: Actor, Father, Beloved Husband. The End.

http://www.wwtdd.com/

:rolleyes:

Sounds like a great idea for a movie!

[middleway00]

you all won't be laughing when xenu gets here!

























:rolleyes:

[emanuel]

you all won't be laughing when xenu gets here!



























:rolleyes:

Oh but I would, like a foaming lunatic!

[drhemp]

How appropriate, a bunker for the bonkers.

[space lizard]

I don't blame him for spending 10 million on a bunker, (IF its true).

America will be facing riots and rapes and burnings if the current train of events both political and financial is not derailed soon. Trillions of dollars in debt, everyone armed to the teeth. Fuck me, building this bunker is the most sensible thing I've heard any Hollywood person do in a long time.

[middleway00]

I don't blame him for spending 10 million on a bunker, (IF its true).

America will be facing riots and rapes and burnings if the current train of events both political and financial is not derailed soon. Trillions of dollars in debt, everyone armed to the teeth. Fuck me, building this bunker is the most sensible thing I've heard any Hollywood person do in a long time.

seemingly. then again, we don't know what the future holds.

[rydeon]

lets be gratuitous...could be Risky Business

Some say he's Losing It but the Cocktail sucking Samurai awaits his Rainman with All The Right Moves under a Vanilla Sky because he knows The Colour of Money in these Days of Thunder. A potential War of The Worlds awaits yet he has the Collateral to keep his Eyes Wide Shut with a few "Young Guns" becasue he's TOP GUN and a LEGEND!!! With connections to The Firm there will be no Outsiders or a Minority Report, just A Few Good Men. He'll dance Taps with his Endless Love, Jerry McGuire, his Magnolia. It shouldn't be a Mission Impossible as he has a Valkyrie with him.

Except that Tom Cruise wasn't in Young Guns ;)

But you're referring to his compardres aren't you.

Good post though :)

[sloughi]

http://www.xfacts.com/updates/

[romas]

I remmeber how Jordan Maxwel described concept behind the word "church" as derrivative from Greek Curci, an old myth about Mother Curci, how she hypnotized people into coming over to her cave and then she turned them into pigs and lived off them as cattle.

Not sure how real that myth is, but it's perfect description for any "church" seeing how easy is to setup and register one is :)

Anyways lay off the hate guys, Tom is rich and bored, he has ton invested in this life(look at his rows of worry!), gorgous wife, awesome career etc. Let him have his bunker, let it go :)

[armoured_amazon]

I'm pretty sure that when someone is this dumb, they can be declared legally dead. So, it's with great sadness that I report the passing of Tom Cruise: Actor, Father, Beloved Husband. The End.

:D

[romas]

Btw the owners of Walmart built a bunker to, a while ago and I'm not sure if they are connected to scientology.

[deckard]

I dont see the problem with what hes doing, maybe the reason for it.
But whether or not great xeno or whoever descends, or a nuclear war happens, old Tom here is in a better position than most with this available shelter for himself and his family.

[deckard]

seemingly. then again, we don't know what the future holds.

Its nice to prepare anyway but, if your wrong then all you face is a bit of ridicule, if your right, you can happily laugh at your ridiculers from the safety of your bunker, as they bang to be let in.
Sorry, only room, air and food for me and my family, you should have built your own.
The lazy man who does not prepare for winter, will go cold.

[devanshoom]

that bunker just might come in handy.....maybe not so dumb.

[hw spartan]

if you knew the shit is real.

you would build a bunker also.
:cool:

i would right now, if i where rich.:eek:

[onourwayto2012]

Whats the difference in Tom Cruise believing that and people believing in Reptillians? I can't see any.
well cuz one is total BS and the other has milleniums of evidence

[loki]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA i cant wait till they put a date on this alien attacking us so when it doesnt happen we can ridicule them even more HAAHHAHAHAAHAHAHA

[deckard]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA i cant wait till they put a date on this alien attacking us so when it doesnt happen we can ridicule them even more HAAHHAHAHAAHAHAHA

It doesnt matter if aliens come or not, the bunker could be used for any purpose, it doesnt have to be a nuclear war, it could be gang riots, they will be going haha at you when you are screaming to be let into one.

[hw spartan]

It doesnt matter if aliens come or not, the bunker could be used for any purpose, it doesnt have to be a nuclear war, it could be gang riots, they will be going haha at you when you are screaming to be let into one.

true, and if your a mafioso, its a dream.

hahahaha

or to get away from the nagging wife.

:(

[onourwayto2012]

It doesnt matter if aliens come or not, the bunker could be used for any purpose, it doesnt have to be a nuclear war, it could be gang riots, they will be going haha at you when you are screaming to be let into one. if they are going haha in their bunkers then they deserve the totally shitty life they get when they have to come out of it.......but yeah... I wouldn't mind having a first class bunker..... but NOT at the exspence of being a Scientologist
edit: sorry about sp errors..

[deckard]

if they are going haha in their bunkers then they deserve the totally shitty life they get when they have to come out of it.......but yeah... I wouldn't mind having a first class bunker..... but NOT at the exspence of being a Scientologist

But they will be alive, and also probably wearing radiation proof suits, carrying filtered water and supplies, be carrying latest communication devices to signal to any authoritys for help, and of course be extremely well armed.
Tom, like any responsible mega rich male parent will probably have his whole family armed to the teeth when they walk out, with the latest weaponary and protective body armour on.

While everyone else is staggering around half melted, he will make his way, probably by armour plated heli, with his family to some arranged secret meeting place for surivors, where there is alot more protection in numbers, more weapons, more supplies and rad free drinking water, and uncontaminated land.

[deckard]

or to get away from the nagging wife.
:(

Definitely, you are better off even dead, than to have a miserable nagging wife.

[onourwayto2012]

Geezuss... you should send that to Hollywood.... sounds like an awesome movie script..... and I'm actually only being a little sarcastic.... cuz it would

[deckard]

Geezuss... you should send that to Hollywood.... sounds like an awesome movie script..... and I'm actually only being a little sarcastic.... cuz it would

You think so, maybe I will then.

[onourwayto2012]

You think so, maybe I will then.
Yeah I can see "Tom" being all Scientology at first and then kicking into pure survival mode...with little kids............ any movie based on what it would really be like would kick ass.... even a Tom Cruise survival movie

[hw spartan]

Yeah I can see "Tom" being all Scientology at first and then kicking into pure survival mode...with little kids............ any movie based on what it would really be like would kick ass.... even a Tom Cruise survival movie

yeh, staring Tom Cruise


hahaha

[deckard]

Geezuss... you should send that to Hollywood.... sounds like an awesome movie script..... and I'm actually only being a little sarcastic.... cuz it would

Heres a rough write up, it would go something like this, are you watching Speilberg?

In an early part of the movie, I would have the father pulling up in his SUV at his incredibly rich gated community house, and unloading heaps of high tech weaponary onto the drive way, there has just been a small nuclear war in the middle east, America is in panic, then I would flashback to the guy five years earlier building a deep bunker in his backyard, while his neighborhood ridicules him, even his own kids look at him funnily, he has destroyed their pool to make way for it.

His wife half supports him, because she can see there could be a need for it, but doesnt enjoy the attention it causes.
The movie would go for another hour of this part gradually leading to the beginning scene on the driveway again, shot from a slightly different angle.

The neighbors are not laughing now, maybe crazy 'dave' is not so crazy after all, they are just watching in fear.
Then in the next act, all hell breaks loose, Dave himself wittnesses a nuke go off over the major city he lives near from his balcony, he runs screaming down to his wife and kids and puts them into the bunker.
This is the only dramatic part of the movie, and it is very intense.

A few minutes later another nuke goes off almost over them, huge noise ensues screaming, chaos, fear lots of motion camera filming, then after the climax, half an hour of filming in the bunker, during which a week is spent in there.
Dave then leads his family out fully protected, supplied and armed into the new world, his mansion, the gated community are completely destroyed, he has not only survived a nuclear war, but has survived it at ground zero, after two minutes film of them walking in silence through the destruction, away from ground zero they enter the outer zone of the blast and they see struggling melted half alive humans walking dazedly around them, no close ups or involvement but of any kind, not even comments, this is just observation, we are not as an audience getting involved away from the father and his family, there is no dramatic scenes here, just about shock and quiet.

As they walk further away from this up a hill, a military helicopter comes down, heavily armed soldiers come out, Dave shows them a large red card with his ID on it, there are also photos of his wife and kids, the soldier looks at the photos, then at Dave his wife and kids faces, he says your cleared sir, get on board.
The heli slowly ascends, other helis far in the back ground are also landing or leaving at various isolated spots, there is an orange greyish dull glow everywhere, finally Dave lets out all the pressure and fear and starts crying, as his family comforts him.

The End.

[red_ram]

Hey, if Xenu doesn't attack after all then at least he'll still have the world's most expensive wine cellar.

[hw spartan]

Heres a rough write up, it would go something like this, are you watching Speilberg?

In an early part of the movie, I would have the father pulling up in his SUV at his incredibly rich gated community house, and unloading heaps of high tech weaponary onto the drive way, there has just been a small nuclear war in the middle east, America is in panic, then I would flashback to the guy five years earlier building a deep bunker in his backyard, while his neighborhood ridicules him, even his own kids look at him funnily, he has destroyed their pool to make way for it.

His wife half supports him, because she can see there could be a need for it, but doesnt enjoy the attention it causes.
The movie would go for another hour of this part gradually leading to the beginning scene on the driveway again, shot from a slightly different angle.

The neighbors are not laughing now, maybe crazy 'dave' is not so crazy after all, they are just watching in fear.
Then in the next act, all hell breaks loose, Dave himself wittnesses a nuke go off over the major city he lives near from his balcony, he runs screaming down to his wife and kids and puts them into the bunker.
This is the only dramatic part of the movie, and it is very intense.

A few minutes later another nuke goes off almost over them, huge noise ensues screaming, chaos, fear lots of motion camera filming, then after the climax, half an hour of filming in the bunker, during which a week is spent in there.
Dave then leads his family out fully protected, supplied and armed into the new world, his mansion, the gated community are completely destroyed, he has not only survived a nuclear war, but has survived it at ground zero, after two minutes film of them walking in silence through the destruction, away from ground zero they enter the outer zone of the blast and they see struggling melted half alive humans walking dazedly around them, no close ups or involvement but of any kind, not even comments, this is just observation, we are not as an audience getting involved away from the father and his family, there is no dramatic scenes here, just about shock and quiet.

As they walk further away from this up a hill, a military helicopter comes down, heavily armed soldiers come out, Dave shows them a large red card with his ID on it, there are also photos of his wife and kids, the soldier looks at the photos, then at Dave his wife and kids faces, he says your cleared sir, get on board.
The heli slowly ascends, other helis far in the back ground are also landing or leaving at various isolated spots, there is an orange greyish dull glow everywhere, finally Dave lets out all the pressure and fear and starts crying, as his family comforts him.

The End.

haha very nice...
...:)

[deckard]

thanks, 110 minutes should do it.

[loki]

isnt if funny how alot of rich people atm are building bunkers ... wasnt there a massive bill gates and rockerfella bunker being built that holds all the plant life, seeds and such in it ... was posted on here a while back

[drael]

This is remarkable similar to certain beleifs and responses found here sometimes....