How can creation exist in timeless consciousness?

[deus_sumus]

I've been thinking about time being an illusion and everything existing as one timeless consciousness.
I feel that this is true, however, logic tells me it doesn't make sense.
For example, if everything is timeless, then nothing changes. So how can creation be possible? No new ideas and no train of thought.
Somebody help me out here.

[barbitone]

In illusion my friend.

[barbitone]

Truth is there is only one energy. No time. No space. Just infinite potential.
Our illusion is our creation.

[albie]

The notion of time is greatly distorted by new agers. Icke says time is an illusion. He thinks all events exist at the same time. Right now Henry the 8th is doing a shit. Right now Jesus is raising Lazarus.

It's a nice trick to present ideas that are difficult to visualise so you can add a bit of fake awe in to your sermons.

Time is movement. No more. You can't travel back or forth. So being timeless doesn't mean you can't move.

[bigus_dickus]

when we say timeless, i understand that it is not subject to time, but it creates time as a means for expression. but, what is time anyway? before we say "timeless", or "time full", we have to really know what time is first.

what the hell is time? does it really exist as an entity? is it God?

[albie]

Truth is there is only one energy. No time. No space. Just infinite potential.
Our illusion is our creation.

This is a good example of using an impossible to imagine state to trick you into fake awe.

Now please donate to our church is the next line.:D

[barbitone]

oh yeah, nice to meet you by the way. welcome!:D

[barbitone]

"Time is movement. No more."

exactly, movement of energy.

[albie]

Our illusion is our creation.

Now exhale.....

[28th kingdom]

I've been thinking about time being an illusion and everything existing as one timeless consciousness.
I feel that this is true, however, logic tells me it doesn't make sense.
For example, if everything is timeless, then nothing changes. So how can creation be possible? No new ideas and no train of thought.
Somebody help me out here.

The answer is... everything is an illusion... including that computer monitor yer staring at... and these curved little lines you're decoding with yer mind...

Now... the fact that I just made you think - fudadookiepoo... well - on one hand, you could say that I'm controlling yer mind right now... because I have you entranced with my word... see, at this point in "time" I command yer every thought... watch... I'm gonna make you think of a word you've never even heard of before - pootapoop... see what I mean?

So, in short, yes and no... but always think neither... because neither is more absolute in terms of the paradox of time and space. I hope that answered yer question.

I AM A GOLDEN GOD!

[albie]

What he is saying is that truth is confusion.

If you follow Ickes notions to their end you just end up with nonsense.

No answers, just more question.
But then that's the best you'd do with any philosophy.

[barbitone]

then what are you here for then Albie?

[mr_moon]

I've been thinking about time being an illusion and everything existing as one timeless consciousness.
I feel that this is true, however, logic tells me it doesn't make sense.
For example, if everything is timeless, then nothing changes. So how can creation be possible? No new ideas and no train of thought.
Somebody help me out here.

The MIND struggles with Time it seems... it appears to be locked into it and cannot seem to get out of it. That is why thoughts and emotions can make us feel stressed or hopeless because we can get locked into something that is happening inside our heads and not in 'physical' reality.

Ambiguity always goes hand in hand with the concept of 'time' because no matter what ANYBODY says- we must make our own decisions about what it really is.

Time is pushed down our throats, injected into our being and discussed and discussed over and over again until nobody knows what's going on... but we do know DEEP DOWN what it is- we just have to work it out for ourselves.

This brings me to the question... Is Time actually Important?

:)

[father ted]

I've been thinking about time being an illusion and everything existing as one timeless consciousness.
I feel that this is true, however, logic tells me it doesn't make sense.
For example, if everything is timeless, then nothing changes. So how can creation be possible? No new ideas and no train of thought.
Somebody help me out here.

Yes everything is an illusion, but to then try to be more specific, illusion of seperation, which probably has complicated itself with further illusion of seperation (so on and so forth), which we are living under, thus thinking there is time.

[deus_sumus]

Thanks for your contributions everyone.

I struggle with these spiritual concepts. I do feel there is truth in some of these things but I cannot just have faith. It has to make sense to me. It has been said that the rational mind cannot grasp these things and one must turn to our intuition(knowing) to comprehend them. Oh dear!! I am in trouble.
I fear that without my rationality I will might become chronically gullible.

[tejas]

I guess its difficult to know without having the experience.

Words can only do so much justice, as is the mind. They are both limited in this aspect.

You have to know for yourself!

Doesn't mean it isn't true though. Quantum physics doesn't make the least bit of sense

[deus_sumus]

Thanks Tejas. Good point.

[28th kingdom]

Thanks for your contributions everyone.

I struggle with these spiritual concepts. I do feel there is truth in some of these things but I cannot just have faith. It has to make sense to me. It has been said that the rational mind cannot grasp these things and one must turn to our intuition(knowing) to comprehend them. Oh dear!! I am in trouble.
I fear that without my rationality I will might become chronically gullible.

The universe is a perfect model for consciousness or the human mind. It is infinite... and without a beginning or end... such as creation.

[father ted]

Fuck it, just take mushrooms.

[lenejento]

I've been thinking about time being an illusion and everything existing as one timeless consciousness.
I feel that this is true, however, logic tells me it doesn't make sense.
For example, if everything is timeless, then nothing changes. So how can creation be possible? No new ideas and no train of thought.
Somebody help me out here.


The first thing that popped into my mind when I saw your question was: Because the eternal (eternal = no time) is alive!
It is the life giving source of everything, it is consciousness, the eternal now, the eternal mystery that makes all science and illusion possible (all possibility) and it is the true nature of you and me.

[lenejento]

I guess its difficult to know without having the experience.

Words can only do so much justice, as is the mind. They are both limited in this aspect.

You have to know for yourself!

Doesn't mean it isn't true though. Quantum physics doesn't make the least bit of sense

Absolutely true! And still if we shut up about it it might end up being ignored, because it's the easiest thing to ignore.

[28th kingdom]

Thanks for your contributions everyone.

I struggle with these spiritual concepts. I do feel there is truth in some of these things but I cannot just have faith. It has to make sense to me. It has been said that the rational mind cannot grasp these things and one must turn to our intuition(knowing) to comprehend them. Oh dear!! I am in trouble.
I fear that without my rationality I will might become chronically gullible.

You'll never make sense of the universe with rational thoughts or logic... because those are distorted with false beliefs and assumptions about what you BELIEVE to be true or real. You must escape the ego mind and unthink... that is - to free yerself from the illusion of yer five senses...

There is no such thing as a physical world... it's all spiritual... the ultimate delusion of the ego is called duality i.e. good/bad, black/white, right/wrong, spiritual/physical... there is no such thing... because everything is one... the universe is like a hologram, wherein - ever part contains the whole. Like the saying... the entire universe is in a grain of sand.

Physical matter doesn't exist... it's just energy... that's vibrating at the same rate as yer mind or thoughts. When we conceive of a spiritual world in relation to the physical world (dualistic mind frame) ... we think of something that is not solid or transparent in nature... but the reason it appears like this to us... is because it (the spiritual realm) is vibrating on a different level than ours. If we calibrated the vibration of our thoughts... with this "spiritual" world... than it would appear as solid as the world we currently live in.

That is to say... that if you were looking at an apparition... and it appeared to be transparent in nature... you might think... okay, that's in the spiritual world, because it's not solid like I am... however, if you were to change yer point of view (expand yer awareness - outside of the ego mind frame) ... and get inside the apparition... and then look back at yerself (in the physical world) it would be the complete opposite. Now you (as the apparition) appear solid or physical... while yer former self (in the physical world) has become an apparition of sorts... because yer thoughts (as the apparition) are now vibrating in the realm of this other "spiritual" dimension... which vis a vis with the world we all know... seems transparent or unsolid. This is why duality is an illusion... it comes from a distorted mind frame... that judges from one point of view which puts you in RELATION (in opposition i.e. duality) to something else.

Anyway, the best way to perceive all of this... is to engage in daily mu-shin... which is a sort of meditation. This one simple technique, can open yer mind up to all the secrets of the universe.

[astro zombie]

Fuck it, just take mushrooms.

:)

Take 5 dried grams of these magical little wonders and you will surely be able to see through the illusion of time.;)

[lilly555]

Timeless consciousness has the ability to manifest anything no matter what it is. Including the aspect that is creation. The "paradox" existing in the thought of "how can it be created if it's timeless conciousness" is only in your mind. Which is just an endless sea of paradoxes that has no beginning and no end just like everything else. :eek:

[father ted]

:)

Take 5 dried grams of these magical little wonders and you will surely be able to see through the illusion of time.;)

See des sumus, we ain't joking. Other's will tell you too.

[phoebe]

I've been thinking about time being an illusion and everything existing as one timeless consciousness.
I feel that this is true, however, logic tells me it doesn't make sense.
For example, if everything is timeless, then nothing changes. So how can creation be possible? No new ideas and no train of thought.
Somebody help me out here.

There is no 'time' without
Consciousness manifesting itself physically.
(Time being merely the measurement of the movement of things.)
There are no 'things' in pure consciousness (god/source whatever)
So therefore there is nothing 'new' in consciousness.
Just the potential for those things to be.
And that potential is one big present moment.
You are spot though
Because at the root//source/pure consciousness/god level
Nothing does change.
Because there are no things and change is time
And time is a thing...
We as egos experience time as changes/experiences/movement.
But the consciousness within us is unchanging.
It doesn't experience, it doesn't change, it doesn't move.
It is just the potential for those things to occur
It isn't those things in itself.
Therefore time is illusory only in that
God is not time.
:confused::confused:

See how much I'm getting my knickers in a twist
Trying to explain something that's unexplainable?
As soon as you get somewhere
You are hit my paradox.
You cannot have a true thought about these things
Because it's beyond thought, it can't be 'understood'.
As soon as you have a thought about it
You have conceptualised something that is indefinable
Therefore how can that thought be truth?
My best way of explaining it to myself
Is that true reality is emptiness
A void.

[bigus_dickus]

it takes time for a form of consciousness (the caterpillar), to perform a complete metamorphosis to a butterfly. the creature itself doesn't know time, but it does what it has to do.

when inside its chrysalis, it performs a complete transformation of its DNA, from this of a caterpillar, to this of a butterfly. the butterfly DNA is present in the caterpillar, but it is not activated. when it is time, it activates and produces one of the most miraculous transformations that we can observe. eyes develop, with thousands of lenses that link directly to the brain, a mouth starts to form and wings. the old DNA is discarded and the new is put to use..

that must be one of the most awakening experiences of the universe for consciousness to experience. consciousness experiences, it doesn't think, it doesn't analyze, it doesn't care. time exists only in the mind, for consciousness time is something useful, but for consciousness, awake and sleep time is the same. consciousness is always present. the mind (time) is its tool, so that it can have a unique experience being everything it can be, being ...you.

Life of a Butterfly - YouTube

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Ladies & Gentlemen, Cordial Felicitations:

Bigus Dikus: A perfect analogy! Just when the caterpillar 'thinks' it is all over, POOF, it becomes a Butterfly!

At this time, we are all incomplete, partial, Beings. As such, this Quality will factor into our 'conclusions' asto the Nature of our 'Reality'.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

[father_pyramid]

Much in this thread has explained it well and I agree with many of the comments. Some have already said this but I will say it in my own way.

My version of what I think is: 'Creation' is intangible. perhaps the creation of this particular universe was a tangible event, but what was before that, and before that, and so on? Eventually infinite consciousness just is and always has been and always will be. It cannot be created nor destroyed.

And so, as everything is, except love, I believe time to be an illusion. In our experience of this phsyical life, time appears to exist as linear, but that is just because of our perception, our physical constrains of our perceived reality. If infinite consciousness cannot be created or destroyed - how can there exist time? If reality is created by something that is intangible(infinite consciousness) - how can reality itself be tangible?

[astro zombie]

"And so, as everything is, except love, I believe time to be an illusion. In our experience of this phsyical life, time appears to exist as linear, but that is just because of our perception, our physical constrains of our perceived reality."

Well said! This is how i now feel as well. Of course time is an illusion but as long as we our limited to our 5 senses in our body, time is 'real' and calculable to all of us on a collective level, as it's meant to be. That's the point. It's just a ride and we choose to go on it, it's part of our experiance here.

I guess the point is not to be a slave to time, to know it's ultimately an illusion so you don't get caught up in it so much.

Seriously folks, if you haven't already i recommend you get your hands on as many psilocybin mushrooms as you possibly can. It helps in our understanding of things sooo much. If i remember right growing magic mushrooms used to be legal in the UK, lucky blokes.:) I'm stuck here in the states.

[herebynightfall]

I've been thinking about time being an illusion and everything existing as one timeless consciousness.
I feel that this is true, however, logic tells me it doesn't make sense.
For example, if everything is timeless, then nothing changes. So how can creation be possible? No new ideas and no train of thought.
Somebody help me out here.

Creation in a small fraction of an infinite number of possibility.

I believe in alternate universes.
Where they're in the same situation as us, bu their universes is altered from ours.

Different arrangements of the core elements.

Maybe similar wavelenths as our universe, maybe an offshoot of our own wavelength, or maybe just all together different frequencies.

Doesn't solve the problem of conciousness. Oh WELL sorry bud.


Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that
We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.
Alice: And how do you know that you're mad?
The Cat: To begin with, a dog's not mad. You grant that?
Alice: I suppose so,
The Cat: Well, then, you see, a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I'm mad.

[sunyatta60]

There is no such thing as a physical world... it's all spiritual... the ultimate delusion of the ego is called duality i.e. good/bad, black/white, right/wrong, spiritual/physical... there is no such thing... because everything is one... the universe is like a hologram, wherein - ever part contains the whole. Like the saying... the entire universe is in a grain of sand.

This film validates your words above it is all based on the work of Bohm and Pribram ;)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4232897377629019446&q=holographic+universe&total=49&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[auron]

See des sumus, we ain't joking. Other's will tell you too.
Yes, It's true.

You wanna see beyond this "world"? Experience no "time"??

Take these:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Psilocybe_semilanceata.jpg/300px-Psilocybe_semilanceata.jpg


Do your homework first:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_faq.shtml

[herebynightfall]

Auron Man.

What's your thoughts on extracting mescaline from a Sand Pedro Catctus ?

I got my methods from erowid.. and am liking this process...

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti_preparation5.shtml

well you seem the go to guy, wonderin if you had any experiences with mescaline specifically.

[albie]

then what are you here for then Albie?

To point this out and to trim the bullshit from conspiracy theories.

[albie]

Physical matter doesn't exist... it's just energy... that's vibrating at the same rate as yer mind or thoughts. When we conceive of a spiritual world in relation to the physical world (dualistic mind frame) ... we think of something that is not solid or transparent in nature... but the reason it appears like this to us... is because it (the spiritual realm) is vibrating on a different level than ours. If we calibrated the vibration of our thoughts... with this "spiritual" world... than it would appear as solid as the world we currently live in.

.

If everything is an illusion then why are you saying that matter is energy? Energy is an illusion too.

[mr_moon]

Auron Man.

What's your thoughts on extracting mescaline from a Sand Pedro Catctus ?

I got my methods from erowid.. and am liking this process...

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti_preparation5.shtml

well you seem the go to guy, wonderin if you had any experiences with mescaline specifically.

I've chewed on some dried san pedro cactus and the results are interesting... not sure what happened really but i did feel a sense of being relaxed and excited at the same time