Wealth, Abundance and Work

[rob menard]

IN a recent post asky made reference that he had gotten off his butt and earned the wealth he now enjoys.

Here is the discussion point, directed respectfully to asky.

Let us for the purpose of this discussion agree that one could access their security and as you put it 'pay for everything'. So we have a newly discovered mechanism which will allow everyone to enjoy the same level of abundance as you now do. But they would not have to work for it. But nor would it affect the abundance on your own table.

Would you support such a newly found mechanism, or not?

I ask because of the pride you expressed in your posts and the presumption that Freemen do not wish to work.

Would you claim, I had to suffer for my abundance and wealth and so should you!?

Or would you say, "Welcome to the club of abundance!"?

If the previous then one must ask why you would deny others abundance when it does not negatively affect yours, and the only answer is that you tie your wealth not only to what you have, but in comparison to what others do not, and you do not want to lose that ability to compare your wealth and abundance to others, and feel a sense of pride for the suffering you endured.


So lets us assume that you voice an acceptance of the former, because you are incapable of admitting the later?

Would you be willing to work to create such a mechanism? And again if not, why not?

Is it not because you had to suffer and sweat and therefore so must others?

If everyone in your neighborhood suddenly had as much wealth as you, as much abundance, and they did not have to work for it, and no one looked up to you anymore for your wealth, but maybe looked down on you for how you tried to hide the mechanism, would you still consider yourself rich, wealthy and better than others? (as you obviously do by the tone of your posts)

[number_6]

Let us for the purpose of this discussion agree that one could access their security and as you put it 'pay for everything'. So we have a newly discovered mechanism which will allow everyone to enjoy the same level of abundance as you now do. But they would not have to work for it. But nor would it affect the abundance on your own table.

When you say "one could access", I assume that you mean not one but every inhabitant of the country? So not one individual would have to work?

[asky]

Again the fictional make believe world of Rob Menard where nobody works and everything is provided for you?

Do you realise how ridiculous you sound.
Who provides for you?

As for freeman not wanting to work just look at every youtube video of freemen for evidence of that being true.

Are you suggesting that effort and helping others shouldnt be rewarded.
Shouldnt doctors and nurses be rewarded for looking after the sick?

Rob, everyone cant lollop around spaced out on booze and weed and expect an advanced society to work and provide for everyone within that society.

You just come across as a layabout just out for a free ride on the backs of others.

By the way what makes you think I am rich?
I have a comfortable lifestyle but I am far from "loaded"

When I get money I spend it.

asky

[rob menard]

Again the fictional make believe world of Rob Menard where nobody works and everything is provided for you?

AVOIDANCE OF THE QUESTION BY REJECTING THE HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION ESTABLISHED FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE DISCUSSION.

Dude, learn to read. I never said NOBODY WOULD WORK.

I said NOBODY WOULD HAVE TO WORK to enjoy the same level of abundance as you do now.

You operate on the assumption that everyone is like you, and would not work if their basic needs were met.

I know differently. Not everyone is like you.

It is like you saying "If you could afford a nanny to raise your kids, you would do so and never see your kids." But believe it or not, some people want to spend time with their kids. Some people like their jobs, but hate how they are tied to them. Many feel they would be far better off being able to work just a little less, and not have to feel like a slave to pay for the resources THEY OWN.

[tien an]

When you say "one could access", I assume that you mean not one but every inhabitant of the country? So not one individual would have to work?

He did say "as you put it" (asky)...

Not everything would (should) be provided, imho.

Shelter, food, (household) energy, should be more than enough.

Personally, I'd hate not working (I do now).
Quite apart from it being fantastic as a concept, people would be lazier and think even less than now.

Work of your own choosing would be more within the reach of your Joe Bloggs though, because he wouldn't have the pressure of taking 'just any job'.
I'm not sure if you really like the motor industry (you did say you take an interest, but that you don't get overly involved (paraphrasing, forgive me if I misquoted)...can you imagine having to do something you absolutely hate just to get by?

What's wrong with the idea (as I've outlined it above)?

tian an.

[number_6]

Dude, learn to read. I never said NOBODY WOULD WORK.


Surely in your example though, nobody would have to. Only those stupid enough who didn't mind supporting those who didn't work.

[waterpistol]

"Welcome to the club of abundance!"

i think the abundance lies not in wealth but a sense of personal superiority, via the means of increased knowledge. it is a theme i have witnessed frequently on this forum, i mean i am all for a person needing to find their own way around the hidden world of FMOTL, yet i sense a lot of reluctance to share knowledge, a fear.

so yes, a good post, a good question, one that we could all answer, not just asky.

i believe it is through a fear of lack, generally, not specifically relating to anyone. :o

[waterpistol]

Surely in your example though, nobody would have to. Only those stupid enough who didn't mind supporting those who didn't work.

imagine a world where you didn't have to slave away in jobs you hated? all that energy could be diverted into producing creative masterpieces, instead of oiling the wheels for a system that most on here surely do not believe in or agree with.

[asky]

can you imagine having to do something you absolutely hate just to get by?

Been there and done it.
Its good for building your character and gaining an understanding of people from all walks of life.

Did you consider that humans need to be active and toiling/working in order to develop into well rounded individuals.

I do the job I do because I like it and am helping others to do their jobs better.
I work for less money than I could earn in another job , in fact I chose the job I do now over a job with the potential to earn twice the money.
If at any point I didnt like my job I would go and do something else.

The vast majority moan about the jobs they do but dont even try and get another one????

asky

[number_6]

all that energy could be diverted into producing creative masterpieces, instead of oiling the wheels for a system that most on here surely do not believe in or agree with.

Agreed but, no more coffee, electricity, heating, internet, alcohol, JSA, is that what you want?

[number_6]

Dude, learn to read. I never said NOBODY WOULD WORK.



No, because it is essential for the FOTL concept to operate that there are non FOTLers in slavery.

[yozhik]

People who do not have the stress of worrying about the bills are actually more productive.

[number_6]

People who do not have the stress of worrying about the bills are actually more productive.

Possibly, but rob said:
So we have a newly discovered mechanism which will allow everyone to enjoy the same level of abundance as you now do.
But they would not have to work for it. But nor would it affect the abundance on your own table.
How productive would those people be?

[asky]

Thats priceless yozhik

The vast majority of would be freemen are up to their eyes in debt and as such must be the least productive people there are.

asky

[yozhik]

Thats priceless yozhik

The vast majority of would be freemen are up to their eyes in debt and as such must be the least productive people there are.

asky

asky ... my experience and my first hand knowledge of the subject matter is that this applies not just to FOTL'ers.

So, despite the spin you want to put on it ... the statement stands.
I'm disappointed that you even have to turn it into an anti-FOTL slur, given that my original comment was generic and applicable to EVERY employee or worker.

[rob menard]

Agreed but, no more coffee, electricity, heating, internet, alcohol, JSA, is that what you want?


So is it your belief these things would only exist and can only continue to exist if we allow people to act through corporations and be passionate about making money?

Are there no electricians passionate about electricity?

Are there no beer lovers who would brew out of love of beer?

Would the internet disappear if we refuse to allow corporations and the largest media providers to have their profiteering way with it?

Is the only reason you interact with your fellow man in order to make money, so you can shine above them?

Some people are passionate about things besides money, and their need for money, to make those who are passionate about money happy first, interferes with their passions.

This is changing. Those who are passionate about money seem to won the world, and have convinced every one else that their passion must be satiated before we can address our own.

You are watching the change now.

[karl j]

Thats priceless yozhik

The vast majority of would be freemen are up to their eyes in debt and as such must be the least productive people there are.

asky

I think you got that ass backwards.... the most productive people on this planet are the ones in debt, the ones who are the least productive on this planet are the piss pots running it because all they do is bet money against money and make, ....... guess what... more fuckin money, so they are producing nothing from nothing. there is one proviso.... their rules do produce something.... masses of debt for the rest of us.
Now then, are you going to answer the 'hypothetical' question asked of you or are you going to ignore it like the rest.

[number_6]

rob, in your scenario, not one of us is working.
How would my coffee get here?

[number_6]

the most productive people on this planet are the ones in debt,

sorry karlj, that is going in my signature :D

[karl j]

rob, in your scenario, not one of us is working.
How would my coffee get here?

No-one is working for money, there is a difference but you and your buds really can't see that....

[number_6]

No-one is working for money, there is a difference but you and your buds really can't see that....

So how does my coffee get here?

[karl j]

sorry karlj, that is going in my signature :D

Laugh all you want 6 but hands up all those who understood exactly what it was i said and it's meaning, you obviously didn't which says more about you than it does about me.

[number_6]

Laugh all you want 6

I am, I am laughing loud. :D :D

[rob menard]

rob, in your scenario, not one of us is working.
How would my coffee get here?

THAT IS NOT TRUE.

However I will accept this as a rebuke and accept that I may not have explained it fully and to and great enough degree.

Everyone would work, except those who for what ever reason choose not to.. We will always have spiritually damaged people to care for. They are a minority.

The difference is most perople would only work at what they love, and because THEY WANT TO DO IT. And they would not be dealing with a constant burden of fear, that they have to pay their rent, hydro, water, health bill, whatever.

They would not live a life of Riley if they refused to find their inner passion and share it. We just no longer burden them with paying into corporations profits to use our resources, and this would allow the vast majority to find their inner passion and create.

And find remedies to the problems we face which otherwise may be ignored because they are too busy paying for the hydro/land/resources they own.

How would your coffee get here? If no one had a passion to travel and bring you coffee, and no one saw the benefit to themselves in bringing you coffee, I GUESS YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO GET IT YOURSELF OR GROW IT YOURSELF YOU LAZY FUXTARD!!!

[yozhik]

Laugh all you want 6 but hands up all those who understood exactly what it was i said and it's meaning, you obviously didn't which says more about you than it does about me.

Let me take a stab at it ...

The lower paid, blue collar workers are the ones who are more likely to be turning raw materials and resources into consumer products; i.e. producing something ... ergo being more productive.

The higher paid, white collar workers are the ones more likely [in the City of London Corporation, as an example] to be involved in high stakes gambling and doing nothing more than wagering bets with fiat currency to create more fiat currency, without actually producing anything of substance; i.e. not producing anything ... ergo being less productive.

[asky]

Rob wrote
Some people are passionate about things besides money, and their need for money, to make those who are passionate about money happy first, interferes with their passions.


I used to chase the money but never seemed to get any, once I accepted the fact I was never going to be wealthy and started doing jobs I wanted to do regardless of the pay, things started to pan out and go my way.

People who chase money never seem to get any.

asky

[waterpistol]

We will always have spiritually damaged people to care for. They are a minority.

digging your words rob, but i think the spiritually damaged are the majority, particularly in the western hemisphere... i mean... look at the ego based bickering that most threads descend into?

but particular to this thread, i have to add that i DO actually love my job, i pay PAYE and it's annoyingly engrossing... but... i don't do what i do for the money! creative/spiritual activity is the spice of life (erm, my life) i think the ancient greeks had it right to some degree, pagan concepts of excelling in physical/spiritual/creative and philosophical exertions.

:)

[karl j]

Let me take a stab at it ...

The lower paid, blue collar workers are the ones who are more likely to be turning raw materials and resources into consumer products; i.e. producing something ... ergo being more productive.

The higher paid, white collar workers are the ones more likely [in the City of London Corporation, as an example] to be involved in high stakes gambling and doing nothing more than wagering bets with fiat currency to create more fiat currency, without actually producing anything of substance; i.e. not producing anything ... ergo being less productive.

I knew there was a good reason i liked you, ;) i would love more people to comment but you gave the best descriptive answer already...

[number_6]

I knew there was a good reason i liked you, ;) i would love more people to comment but you gave the best descriptive answer already...

Whilst yozhik's comments may have some merit, equally there are many people out there who work a seventy hour week to ensure that they are never in debt.

[asky]

Rob wrote
We will always have spiritually damaged people to care for. They are a minority.
Dont worry Rob we will make sure your OK ;)

ASKY

[yozhik]

Whilst yozhik's comments may have some merit, equally there are many people out there who work a seventy hour week to ensure that they are never in debt.

Do you think it is a positive reflection on the 'society' you covet and protect, that some people need to work 70 hours per week?

[karl j]

Do you think it is a positive reflection on the 'society' you covet and protect, that some people need to work 70 hours per week?

Dammit, beat me to it...

[number_6]

Do you think it is a positive reflection on the 'society' you covet and protect, that some people need to work 70 hours per week?

Some (of us) actually choose to.

[rob menard]

Rob wrote

Dont worry Rob we will make sure your OK ;)

ASKY

And that there is why there is a part of me that does like you.
The comic in me loves ya.

We should call you "Quippy'.

[yozhik]

Some (of us) actually choose to.

Having the choice is crux of the matter ... yes?

[number_6]

Having the choice is crux of the matter ... yes?

I would argue we all have the choice.
We make our own luck in this world.

[yozhik]

I would argue we all have the choice.
We make our own luck in this world.

Did you get 'The Oxford Concise Book of Cliches' for Christmas? ;)

[karl j]

sorry karlj, that is going in my signature :D

Don't suppose you want to include the full quote do you, not that it matters because although you think it's funny, i know i'm laughing harder as is Yozhik and Rob and all those others who know exactly what it means and your the one using it as your sig... thanks 6 :D

[theoneandonly]

don't suppose you want to include the full quote do you, not that it matters because although you think it's funny, i know i'm laughing harder as is yozhik and rob and all those others who know exactly what it means and your the one using it as your sig... Thanks 6 :d

+1

:d

[the maestro]

IN a recent post asky made reference that he had gotten off his butt and earned the wealth he now enjoys.

Here is the discussion point, directed respectfully to asky.

Let us for the purpose of this discussion agree that one could access their security and as you put it 'pay for everything'. So we have a newly discovered mechanism which will allow everyone to enjoy the same level of abundance as you now do. But they would not have to work for it. But nor would it affect the abundance on your own table.

Would you support such a newly found mechanism, or not?

I ask because of the pride you expressed in your posts and the presumption that Freemen do not wish to work.

Would you claim, I had to suffer for my abundance and wealth and so should you!?

Or would you say, "Welcome to the club of abundance!"?

If the previous then one must ask why you would deny others abundance when it does not negatively affect yours, and the only answer is that you tie your wealth not only to what you have, but in comparison to what others do not, and you do not want to lose that ability to compare your wealth and abundance to others, and feel a sense of pride for the suffering you endured.


So lets us assume that you voice an acceptance of the former, because you are incapable of admitting the later?

Would you be willing to work to create such a mechanism? And again if not, why not?

Is it not because you had to suffer and sweat and therefore so must others?

If everyone in your neighborhood suddenly had as much wealth as you, as much abundance, and they did not have to work for it, and no one looked up to you anymore for your wealth, but maybe looked down on you for how you tried to hide the mechanism, would you still consider yourself rich, wealthy and better than others? (as you obviously do by the tone of your posts)

We really need Asky to tell us in which enterprise he earned his wealth. I'm a high earner (no bragging intended) but I'm pretty sure very little of what I've ever done has any real benefit to mankind. I work in 'defense', so I ask you Asky, you said that you are 'doing ok thanks very much' but what are you doing?

[lightindarkness]

Again the fictional make believe world of Rob Menard where nobody works and everything is provided for you?

Do you realise how ridiculous you sound.
Who provides for you?

As for freeman not wanting to work just look at every youtube video of freemen for evidence of that being true.

Are you suggesting that effort and helping others shouldnt be rewarded.
Shouldnt doctors and nurses be rewarded for looking after the sick?

Rob, everyone cant lollop around spaced out on booze and weed and expect an advanced society to work and provide for everyone within that society.

You just come across as a layabout just out for a free ride on the backs of others.

By the way what makes you think I am rich?
I have a comfortable lifestyle but I am far from "loaded"

When I get money I spend it.

asky

I have never seen so much truth in a response to one of these threads.

+1

[yozhik]

Do you have optometrists where you come from?

[the maestro]

I have never seen so much truth in a response to one of these threads.

+1

Yes lets all work our asses off in this massive Ponzi scheme. Nice idea. We are privileged, intelligent and industrious, but not so intelligent that we can see what really matters.

[the worm that turned]

Surely in your example though, nobody would have to. Only those stupid enough who didn't mind supporting those who didn't work.

Take a little look around you Number 6 (assuming you're inUK) is that not exactly what is happening. Me and you (assuming you work) are the "stupid" ones supporting those that can't be bothered to or just can't work

[scottmurray]

why is it a ponzi scheme are investors expecting some sort of payout?




Yes lets all work our asses off in this massive Ponzi scheme. Nice idea. We are privileged, intelligent and industrious, but not so intelligent that we can see what really matters.

[girlgye]

AVOIDANCE OF THE QUESTION BY REJECTING THE HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION ESTABLISHED FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE DISCUSSION.

Dude, learn to read. I never said NOBODY WOULD WORK.

I said NOBODY WOULD HAVE TO WORK to enjoy the same level of abundance as you do now.

You operate on the assumption that everyone is like you, and would not work if their basic needs were met.

I know differently. Not everyone is like you.

It is like you saying "If you could afford a nanny to raise your kids, you would do so and never see your kids." But believe it or not, some people want to spend time with their kids. Some people like their jobs, but hate how they are tied to them. Many feel they would be far better off being able to work just a little less, and not have to feel like a slave to pay for the resources THEY OWN.


Here here.

[girlgye]

i think the abundance lies not in wealth but a sense of personal superiority, via the means of increased knowledge. it is a theme i have witnessed frequently on this forum, i mean i am all for a person needing to find their own way around the hidden world of FMOTL, yet i sense a lot of reluctance to share knowledge, a fear.

so yes, a good post, a good question, one that we could all answer, not just asky.

i believe it is through a fear of lack, generally, not specifically relating to anyone. :o

Well Buster be the first to share it.

As you so patently CAN NOT READ OR INTELLECTUALISE.

[girlgye]

People who do not have the stress of worrying about the bills are actually more productive.

Yes we've discussed this and like if we even get close to the solution expect in conservative party manifesto any day soon.

The upshot so far is and has been proven. In communities (conservatives have already nicked this idea dang the power of Trojans), people work for the collective good and the whole in peace.

Problem.
Cities.

[girlgye]

Did you get 'The Oxford Concise Book of Cliches' for Christmas? ;)

:D I think he's been replaced by WPC