Gnosticism: What do you think it is?

[drael]

I have seen this term thrown around a bit in this sub-forum, in a way that suggests people dont actually get what it is...

So id like people just to post their personal thoughts, on what gnosticism is, so I can figure out what people think it means...

Thanks,
Drael

[extremecheese]

Hi Drael,
My understanding is that Gnosticisim is quite a diverse beast, but it all goes back to the belief that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was the good guy who was mearly trying to help man's evolution towards Godhood via the means of the tree of knowlege - hence the Gnosis / Knowlege connection.
Whether you are a believer or not, it is a perversion of scripture (or at least a very strange interpretation of it!) and I think most people today don't really think too much about the consequences of doing such a thing - and let's face it the Genesis story particularly is scoffed at by the mainstream media and even the majority of Christians these days.
Personaly I believe there's connection between the refusal to take the Garden of Eden seriously and the complete collapse of western civilisation that we are witnessing today - but getting back to the Gnostics, well it's plain to see that despite chomping at the fruit, Mankind didn't become Gods, meaning that the serpent was, still is, and will always be a liar I'm afraid.
:)

[drael]

Well thats certainly an interesting POV! However gnosis, or enlightenment, isnt gained through the eating of some fruit, but from the personal experience of divinity, ie connection direct with god. The garden of Eden had that already, before the fall.

In fact, im sure youd be quite surprised at how mystics interpret genesis, given what you have just said.

But I wont say any more on my own understanding of it because Im quite looking foward to hearing what people think gnosticism is.

[jud1th]

Gnosis or Knowledge was something that we all had and was passed on verbally, that is

untill the literalists moved in and made myth in to flesh.

They then constructed a 'book' from their own corruptions of the 'truth

And continued to corrupt it as we moved thro' the centuries.



Good Luck with this one Drael

[lumukanda]

i'm not sure i understand it either, but i have had some fun tracing them to the bogomils and then in turn to the cathars, i found it quite interesting.
i think they also have a belief that this world is hell, and tbh i think i agree with them on that one.

[mr stoppitall]

I assumed Gnosis to be a form of wisdom, yet at the same time a higher state of being that could be described as 'oneness'. All knowing, all seeing. Nothing is hidden and the seeker need only to ask.

[michael christopher]

In my opinion, Gnosticism is the purposeful exploration of the spirituality within oneself. It means self-knowledge. It is what happens when man/woman starts to commune with nature and to realize that God speaks through the living language of the universe. It is a creative "religion" in the sense that it allows you to interpret symbols freely and places more personal emphasis on symbols that have a personal meaning to individuals. I think it's adaptive and individualistic, and the fact that it caters to every individual symbolically (if not philosophically) means, in my opinion, that it cannot really be counted as a religion but as a philosophy which loosely defines a way of thinking. I think that once we take the most important myths and symbols from our past as a human civilization (meaning civilizations the world over, and not related to one particular political or ethnic group) and we look at those myths as symbolic metaphors for human knowledge and ascension, then we are looking at them gnostically. We are realising how the gods/spirits work through archetypes and stories - including stories which play out in the real world, in our daily lives. By realizing how the aspects of God work together, even when they work against each other, then we realize how God works with us and those around us.

Gnosticism is the realization that we are aspects of God, working back to the Godhead, and that more importantly the Godhead is working to bring us back to it.

Personaly I believe there's connection between the refusal to take the Garden of Eden seriously and the complete collapse of western civilisation that we are witnessing today - but getting back to the Gnostics, well it's plain to see that despite chomping at the fruit, Mankind didn't become Gods, meaning that the serpent was, still is, and will always be a liar I'm afraid.

You are wrong. There are men who are like gods. They simply do not fear the absurd Halloween decorations known as "demons" and "devils" that Christians fear. They know that these things are created to ward off the ignorant, to scare off those who are too weak to use the power they would find behind those masks. Sadly, these people have abused that power just as others would, it just happens that they aren't afraid of finding it as most people are. The truth needs to become more widely acknowledged so that more good people can use this power instead of it merely going to the sociopaths and elite mystics of the world. Coincidentally, you say Gnosticism clearly didn't work and then act like Christianity has. Exactly how has Christianity worked for humanity so far? Do you really think it's a better solution than Gnosticism? You are aware that the only reason Gnosticism didn't flourish is because the Holy Roman Empire executed all gnostics they could find and burned every gnostic book they ever came across that isn't currently stored in the Vatican library, correct?

I hope you don't think Gnosticism failed out of lack of interest.

[thereisonlywe]

We never acquire power. We become the "place" where God manifests its power. The more you know, the more you lose yourself (fake self) and the less you choose.

This is not something you can understand before you get rid of ego. If you are aiming oneness, you have one enemy and it is your fake self "I". Once you destroy it, you will see there is no reason for anymore battles, since what you see outside is nothing but a reflection of what is within.

Oneness was taught under different names, including gnosticism, religion of osiris (not the one in which osiris is worshipped, but the one Osiris taught people (kinda like buddhism in this sense)), buddhism, judaism, christianity and islam. In the end people corrupted these names by their wrongdoings. But the idea that "We are 1" still remains. All religions (in their original form) derives from this simple sentence.

There is only one religion that we all are responsible for and gonna be judged with. It doesn't have a name, because as soon as you name something, some practitioners of it will corrupt it. Seek it within.

My friend, if you are seeking the truth don't seek names and don't seek power. Don't make assumptions, don't judge people or environment. Seek knowledge and know that all you have is One, and everything moves according to Its perfect system built on cause-effect relationship. Only then, you are ready to take on a journey that has no end.

P.S: If you would ask us what is the universe, we would say "The One acting on Itself from Itself to Itself at Itself through Itself".

Hope this helps and you find what you are looking for,
Love&Peace

[drael]

Well put MC. In fact gnosticism is not far off what DI presents.

In gnosticism, there is the demi-urge. The false god of worldy illusion, in a christian POV, original sin, the worship of authority, flesh and knowledge.

Gnoticism is really the seeking of personal subjective experience of god, and thus knowledge. They do that as many mystics through the use of symbols, storys, allegories, metaphors and contradictions.

Heres a song, by live, about sofia, the transcendant oneness.

Diamonds and pearls don't move this girl
She can be icy cold to the crawl
One of her lungs breathes in another world
While the other sticks around to blow you off
Even when the four winds blow
She kinda passes by like she don't feel it
No, momma, she don't feel it
One of these days I'm gonna dive into her waves
And bring back the meaning of it all

Sofia, I need ya
Like a junkie needs a vein
And I wanna feel ya, Sofia
Fallin' down on me like rain

They say in ancient times, man, that women ruled the world
But the goddess was the one who laid it down
Well, I gots a woman as alive as the day
Gonna breathe a whisper, knock you right down to the ground
So go ahead man and say what you came to say
The black widow's a spider
The black widow's a spider
Then go and prepare for your dyin' day
Won't take one minute till you're curled up dead beside her

Sofia, I need ya
Like a junkie needs a vein
And I wanna feel ya, Sofia
Fallin' down on me like rain

On me like rain
Fall down
Fall down
Fall down

Sofia, I need ya
Like a junkie needs a vein
And I wanna feel ya, Sofia
Fallin' down on me like rain

Sofia, I need ya
Like a freeloader needs his train
And I wanna feel ya, Sofia
Fallin' down on me like rain

Sofia, rain down on me
And I ain't ever
I'll never be the same, baby
I wanna feel ya, Sofia
Fallin' down on me like rain



Heres a personally made example:

Have you noticed the moon is upside down?
Have you noticed your feet are wet?
Have you notices theirs less stars around?
Have you noticed yet?

[kappy0405]

Gnosticism = Knowledge

The belief that one can directly experience (know) the divine, because the divine is in fact part of us... or 'within you' as Jesus (the first Christian Gnostic?) put it.

Gnosticism is generally seen as Christian concept, but Jewish Gnosticism is essentially the Kabballah and Islamic Gnosticism is essentially Sufism, which imo is one of the most beautiful ideologies in the world today.

And of course, Gnostic philosophy exists in all religions in all sorts of ways.

imo, it's in direct correlation with pantheism/panentheism and most of the philosophy Icke talks about. It goes hand in hand with the idea of infinite consciousness imo..

Religious Literalists (including anyone who thinks the Old Testament or New Testament are the infallible word of God) HATE Gnosticism, which is why the Christian Church has heavily suppressed it throughout history, from the original Christians to the Cathars. And even today, as is seen sometimes on this forum, fundamentalist Christians will equate Gnostic philosophy as the work of the big-bad Satan. :rolleyes:

If there's any evidence that Gnosticism is the way to go, it's that the Illuminati has gone to great lengths to censor it from the mainstream and to make sure we keep taking their word as literally as possible. :cool:

[extremecheese]

You are wrong. There are men who are like gods. They simply do not fear the absurd Halloween decorations known as "demons" and "devils" that Christians fear. They know that these things are created to ward off the ignorant, to scare off those who are too weak to use the power they would find behind those masks. Sadly, these people have abused that power just as others would, it just happens that they aren't afraid of finding it as most people are. The truth needs to become more widely acknowledged so that more good people can use this power instead of it merely going to the sociopaths and elite mystics of the world. Coincidentally, you say Gnosticism clearly didn't work and then act like Christianity has. Exactly how has Christianity worked for humanity so far? Do you really think it's a better solution than Gnosticism? You are aware that the only reason Gnosticism didn't flourish is because the Holy Roman Empire executed all gnostics they could find and burned every gnostic book they ever came across that isn't currently stored in the Vatican library, correct?

I hope you don't think Gnosticism failed out of lack of interest.

Michael Christopher,
Let me start by stating that my knowledge of Gnosticism is far less than yours, and that your insights into to it are much appreciated. However, your post has shown me you have absolutely no understanding of Christianity. Fear over such things as Halloween and demons is something that the lost / unsaved will do. As Christians we have authority over demons - and I'd suggest you check out the book of Luke Chapter 10 where it states this quite plainly (it's actually a great Chapter in the New Testament and contains Lucifer's fall to the earth as a bolt of lightning - you'd love it!).
The rest of your post accuses me of stating that Gnosticism doesn't work - this again isn't true, I've merely stated that the garden of Eden story isn't taken seriously any more - both Gnostic and hard core Christians BOTH believe in the Eden story (as I stated, it's the main streams that scoff at it) - so in my opinion your closing argument is nothing more than a straw man.
As for your statement that there are men who are like Gods, then please show me one of them that can create a universe and I'll believe you immediately - but I suspect that the reality is that their poo stinks the same as what mine does!
In summary, as you are sympathetic to the Gnostic beliefs, I'd like to encourage you increase your knowledge by at least reading the New Testament, and if you have any recommended reading for me then please suggest me some as I'm always happy to read both sides of any story.
Regards
Cheese

[michael christopher]

Michael Christopher,
Let me start by stating that my knowledge of Gnosticism is far less than yours, and that your insights into to it are much appreciated. However, your post has shown me you have absolutely no understanding of Christianity. Fear over such things as Halloween and demons is something that the lost / unsaved will do. As Christians we have authority over demons - and I'd suggest you check out the book of Luke Chapter 10 where it states this quite plainly (it's actually a great Chapter in the New Testament and contains Lucifer's fall to the earth as a bolt of lightning - you'd love it!).

Why do you need protection from something that you do not fear? You need God to save you from demons. That's because you fear them. Simple psychology.

The rest of your post accuses me of stating that Gnosticism doesn't work - this again isn't true, I've merely stated that the garden of Eden story isn't taken seriously any more - both Gnostic and hard core Christians BOTH believe in the Eden story (as I stated, it's the main streams that scoff at it) - so in my opinion your closing argument is nothing more than a straw man.

You misunderstand gnosticism and therein lies the fundamental flaw of your argument. In being a Christian literalist, you assume that gnostics literally believe their own stories. This is not true. Gnostics believe symbolism is simply a method through which God communicates to the world. They do not literally believe that the Garden of Eden story happened as a rule, although some might. It is a moral story. If you really want to look at the question, you should frame it as to why God would put this tree in the middle of the garden and, being omniscient and thus knowing they would eat from it, he told them not to do it. Don't you think this is delusional? The moral of the story is that the humans ate from the tree of knowledge and were cast into the world and out of "paradise," yes. But a more philosophical question would be to ask why such a God would rule over them in such a way in the first place. To accept this story your way, one must bow to illogic. To accept it the gnostic way, they must actually analyze the story and question the motives of God. Perhaps God wants us to question it's motives - if it is omniscient, is this not the only answer? Why would he tell us not to do something that he knew would cause us to do it unless there was a purpose? Christians do not go this far into the story. They stop at the simple and incorrect, incomplete understanding. It is a parable, not a historical account.

As for your statement that there are men who are like Gods, then please show me one of them that can create a universe and I'll believe you immediately - but I suspect that the reality is that their poo stinks the same as what mine does!

To be like God one does not have to create a universe. One merely has to create. It is the potency of those creations that makes men like God.

In summary, as you are sympathetic to the Gnostic beliefs, I'd like to encourage you increase your knowledge by at least reading the New Testament, and if you have any recommended reading for me then please suggest me some as I'm always happy to read both sides of any story.
Regards
Cheese

I've read the New Testament and I'd rather not get started. It's been discussed here plenty of times and if you want to know what I think about it then you can just search my username for posts concerning the New Testament. My faith does not lie in it's infallibility, and in fact it's quite obviously corrupted and unreliable.

[torus]

It was a hard thing to undo this knot.

The rainbow shines but only in the thought

Of him that looks. Yet not in that alone,

For who makes rainbows by invention?

And many standing round a waterfall

See one bow each, yet not the same to all,

But each a hand's breadth further than the next.

The sun on falling waters writes the text

Which yet is in the eye or in the thought.

It was a hard thing to undo this knot.
G.M. Hopkins, 1862

[thereisonlywe]

Michael Christopher,
As for your statement that there are men who are like Gods, then please show me one of them that can create a universe and I'll believe you immediately

Jesus. It is the reason most Christians thought him to be Goddish. They thought he has powers. However, it was God manifesting "stronger" than it does on other human beings. "And (make him) an apostle to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers." (Quran 3:49)

To avoid this, Muhammad did his best to hide what people call as "miracles", so that people accept him as one of them (which is absolutely true). This time what has happened? A prophet has been accused of being a false one.

Why did God let Jesus to be seen with all those powers if he knew some people would think of him as Godlike? Because, by transferring us His message in different ways, God taught us one thing: "Surely Man is ungrateful to his Lord, and surely he is a witness against that!" (Quran 100:6-7) and "And when affliction visits you upon the sea, then there go astray those on whom you call except Him; and when He delivers you to land, you turn away; man is ever unthankful" (Quran 17:67)

[branjo]

To me the attributes I associate with Gnosticism today are critical and logic thinking, something that all religions have tried to stamp out for the want of a set of dogmatic rules to "rule" by.


Buddha says: "Do not flatter your benefactor!" Repeat this saying in a Christian church: right away it clears the air of everything Christian.

[haukipesukone]

Well put MC. In fact gnosticism is not far off what DI presents.


That's what I was just thinking and made me look for this thread. There's the malicious creator of this Matrix and the salvation outside it, which is the Infinite Consciousness.

[mauviene]

I think it is a group of Christians trying to accept the beauty of the eastern religions while still holding together the myth of Christ.